[12:11] <maiatoday> what is the protocol for asking questions, please?
[12:18] <dholbach> maiatoday: the MOTU Q&A session will start in 42 minutes - just ask questions in the channel then :)
[12:18] <maiatoday> thanks
[12:40] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A Session in in 20 minutes
[13:00] <dholbach> Welcome everybody to another MOTU Q&A session!
[13:00] <dholbach> How are you all doing?
[13:00] <dholbach> Let's start with our usual round of introductions? Who do we have here?
[13:01]  * dholbach is Daniel Holbach, MOTU for quite a while already, has been working in a couple of other teams but is now trying to make MOTU as straight-forward and as fun as possible.
[13:01] <dholbach> Come on... don't be shy :)
[13:01]  * persia is a MOTU active with crash triage, games, and audio
[13:01] <persia> Err.  And my name is Emmet Hikory :)
[13:01]  * mgdm is Michael Maclean, he hangs around #ubuntu-uk but is interested in doing something more productive
[13:01]  * dholbach high-fives persia
[13:01] <huats> My name is Christophe Sauthier, I am around for a while. I am a MOTU Hopeful...
[13:01]  * maiatoday is really new command line comfortable but package oblivious and willing to learn
[13:02] <kelmo> Kel - maintain some stuff in Debian, want to know more about what MOTU is all about
[13:02] <dbmoodb> is it ok to sit in and watch ?
[13:02]  * stdin is an io stream ;)
[13:02] <dholbach> dbmoodb: absolutely
[13:02] <dbmoodb> cool
[13:02] <dholbach> we're just going through a round of introductions
[13:02] <cool> dbmoodb, did you say anything :p
[13:03] <dholbach> who of you started playing around with packaging and packaging tools already?
[13:03] <maiatoday> i installed pbuilder and built bc
[13:03] <mgdm> I read a bit about it, linked from Jono's blog a week or two back
[13:03] <dholbach> maiatoday: nice
[13:03] <dholbach> mgdm: great
[13:04] <dholbach> if you haven't read it already, I'd like to point to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
[13:04] <dholbach> it contains the most important information on how to become a MOTU and where to start looking first
[13:04] <warp10> I did something :)
[13:05] <stdin> I've done kde4 rc1 (with help from riddell)
[13:05] <stdin> it was an "experience" to be sure
[13:05]  * dholbach spotted a bunch of MOTUs in the crowd: norsetto, \sh, Hobbsee, persia
[13:05] <dholbach> do you have some questions for them?
[13:05] <dholbach> stdin: experience in what way? baffling? intimidating? easy?
[13:06] <stdin> dholbach: all of the above :p
[13:06] <dholbach> I guess it depends on the package :)
[13:06] <Riddell> stdin: aww, but you did great
[13:06] <stdin> was fun, a bit confusing, but fun
[13:06] <dholbach> stdin, Riddell: what did you guys do? mostly updating packages?
[13:07] <pvandewyngaerde> i compiled KDE4 from source
[13:07] <\sh> stdin, set the default to XRandR for the next upload for more blink stuff:)
[13:07] <stdin> well Riddell uploaded them to hardy and I backported them to gutsy from my ppa
[13:07] <dholbach> pvandewyngaerde: WOW - did you also touch the packaging of it?
[13:07] <pvandewyngaerde> no
[13:08]  * norsetto wonders if he should screw up his kde 3.5
[13:08] <dholbach> in case you're trying to update existing packages, you might want to take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate - it's an example of how to do it
[13:08] <pvandewyngaerde> norsetto:  i have them next to each other
[13:08] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  i don't know if you had a chance to see the package Iwas trying to update
[13:08]  * persia will be editing that page tomorrow, so it's worth checking again later as well :)
[13:08] <dholbach> nice to see some more Kubuntu hackers here :)
[13:08] <effie_jayx> question here?
[13:08] <dholbach> effie_jayx: no, which one was that?
[13:08] <dbmoodb> just a q - MOTU need to be able to program right (just out of interest)
[13:09] <dholbach> effie_jayx: sure
[13:09] <dholbach> dbmoodb: it's not a strict requirement at all
[13:09] <dbmoodb> ...... runs for hills
[13:09] <persia> dbmoodb: It helps to be able to read code, but you don't need to write.
[13:09]  * effie_jayx checks his plan
[13:09] <pvandewyngaerde> what is MOTU ?
[13:09]  * mrsno waves from the back of the classroom
[13:09] <dbmoodb> well... doesn't that pose security problems ?
[13:09] <dholbach> much more important than programming skills is:
[13:09] <persia> pvandewyngaerde: The Masters Of The Universe repository
[13:10] <stdin> pvandewyngaerde: they take care of universe/multiverse
[13:10] <\sh> dbmoodb, nope...
[13:10] <persia> dbmoodb: No: as long as you can read the code, you'll likely not do something dangerous.
[13:10] <dholbach>     * being a good team player
[13:10] <dholbach>     * learning by reading documentation, trying things out and not being afraid to ask questions
[13:10] <dholbach>     *
[13:10] <dholbach>       being highly motivated
[13:10] <dholbach>     *having a knack for trying to make things work
[13:10] <dholbach>     *      having some detective skills
[13:10] <\sh> dbmoodb, it would be cool if you can speak some languages like python or a bit C or shell code...
[13:10]  * persia can't speak any of those: the punctuation gets in the way :)
[13:11] <dbmoodb> this freaks me out some what lol
[13:11] <cool> \sh, you called me? :p
[13:11] <\sh> hehe
[13:11] <dholbach> and you'll definitely learn a lot along the way
[13:11] <dholbach> dbmoodb: why does it freak you out?
[13:11] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  I was trying to update a package called p3scan folloing this bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/p3scan/+bug/133802
[13:11] <dbmoodb> as .... i would have hoped the motus would need some programming experience - to look out for problems
[13:11] <\sh> dbmoodb, well, most of the upstream developers are not able to speak the language they're coding in
[13:11] <dholbach> effie_jayx: we can take a look it together
[13:11] <dbmoodb> what ?
[13:11] <dbmoodb> that made no sense sh
[13:12] <dholbach> dbmoodb: of course it's great if you do speak C++, Python, Perl, Java or PHP
[13:12] <\sh> dbmoodb, it was a joke...but look at all bugs and vulnerabilities, nobody is perfect and in time you learn more then the usual languages when you work on packages
[13:12] <persia> dbmoodb: It certainly helps, but there's lots of work to be done that doesn't require much (or even any) programming.
[13:12] <effie_jayx> as I try to update that packages ... I found some very interesting changes in the code it self ...
[13:12] <dholbach> dbmoodb: but the things I mentioned in the bullet points are what I'd call requirements for members
[13:12] <dbmoodb> sure
[13:12] <propeat> dbmoodb: and you can also learn hacking in any langage on the fly
[13:12] <dbmoodb> - does debian have similar things ?
[13:12] <dholbach> dbmoodb: similar things?
[13:13] <dbmoodb> motus
[13:13] <\sh> dbmoodb, nope...not in this way...
[13:13] <dholbach> in Debian you can become a Debian Developer
[13:13] <dbmoodb> i found the ubuntu page and this irc room easier
[13:13] <\sh> dbmoodb, they have debian maintainers (per package) and debian developers (which are package maintainers and distro developers like joey hess e.g.)
[13:13] <kelmo> there are Debian Maintainers now, as opposed to Debian Developers
[13:13] <dholbach> the process in Debian might take longer and takes a different approach
[13:13] <kelmo> or you can find sponsors
[13:13] <kelmo> via debian-mentors
[13:13] <dholbach> kelmo: we have the sponsorship process in Ubuntu too
[13:14] <dbmoodb> ok good- was getting worried about the state of the debian uploaders
[13:14] <dbmoodb> - not that the ubuntu model is wrong - just different
[13:14] <dholbach> that's another page worth pointing to: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[13:14] <persia> Debian is much more focused on mentoring and sponsoring people.  Ubuntu is more oriented towards pieces of work.  It's easier to get good work into Ubuntu and get credit, but it's easier to get a new package into Debian.
[13:14] <dholbach> it describes how you, who are not MOTUs (yet) can get changes, patches and packages uploaded
[13:14] <warp10> I have a question: when I have a bugfix that is useful to Debian I send to BTS. If after a long time the fix is not applied to the code upstream, what I am supposed to do about this?
[13:14] <dbmoodb> easier to get a package into debian ?
[13:15] <persia> warp10: Relax, and make sure the work is in Ubuntu
[13:15] <dholbach> warp10: the page I just mentioned above explains how to get it included in Ubuntu
[13:15] <dbmoodb> ah dude .... want to make a bet - try get a package into etch - stable
[13:15] <\sh> warp10, bump it...and raise it again , write a another mail to the bts and the maintainer personally
[13:15] <kelmo> warp10: \sh, as someone who has sent a few patches to debian BTS, i would say that is a common frustration
[13:15] <dbmoodb> - i guess for testing and unstable - your right tho
[13:15] <dholbach> basically you file a bug, attach the patch and subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors (if the package is in main/restricted) or subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (if the package is in universe/multiverse)
[13:15] <persia> dbmoodb: Sure.  If you package something, and maintain it, Debian may sponsor the upload (it only takes one).  For Ubuntu, you have to pass REVU, which may require more effort (but gets a better package).
[13:15] <dbmoodb> - your the boss lol
[13:15] <norsetto> warp10: if all fails scream and vent your frustration, kill a whale, that kind of things
[13:16] <persia> dbmoodb: stable (for both) is different.
[13:16] <dbmoodb> ok
[13:16] <dholbach> I think that both Debian and Ubuntu have seen packages that took very short / very long to get included
[13:16] <dbmoodb> will go check out the other rooms for the other distros- just interested in how this works
[13:16] <dholbach> and both have seen packages of varying degrees of quality
[13:16] <dbmoodb> sure
[13:16] <dholbach> :)
[13:17] <dholbach> ok... I believe that effie_jayx had a problem he wanted to discuss with us
[13:17] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/p3scan/+bug/133802 - right?
[13:17] <\sh> kelmo, well you need to know: if the maintainer in debian thinks, that it's not worth, or he/she is working on a different approach, so it's his decission
[13:17] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  yes.
[13:17] <effie_jayx> I was trying to update this package
[13:17] <dholbach> effie_jayx: what was the problem you encountered?
[13:17] <effie_jayx> the new package didn't build
[13:17] <effie_jayx> there are differences in the coding... some classes have been renamed
[13:18] <dholbach> effie_jayx: do you have the portion of the build log somewhere?
[13:18] <dbmoodb> what is p3scan used for btw ?
[13:18] <effie_jayx> yes
[13:18] <dholbach> dbmoodb: transparent POP3-proxy with virus- and spam-scanning
[13:18] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/45215/
[13:18] <kelmo> \sh: that implies at least a response, which is often lacking for > months. and yes, you are correct
[13:19] <effie_jayx> it was something I was trying just for kicks ... after having read the talk on packaging
[13:19] <effie_jayx> I wanted to try some real things
[13:19] <effie_jayx> and I found a bug that looked simple but had its things..
[13:20] <dbmoodb> - p3scan on ubuntu lacks ssl currently ?
[13:20] <\sh> kelmo, well, social problems can't be solved technical, my PoV :)
[13:20] <stdin> effie_jayx: looks like you need to add the build-dependency libssl-dev for a start
[13:21] <effie_jayx> depends line... right... in the file debian/control ??
[13:21] <dholbach> the problem is: p3scan is GPL
[13:21] <stdin> effie_jayx: yeah, to the Build-Depends: line
[13:21] <dholbach> it can't be built with openssl and redistributed easily
[13:22]  * effie_jayx takes notes
[13:22] <dbmoodb> what ?
[13:22] <\sh> effie_jayx, you need an ack that upstream allows the linkage to openssl
[13:22] <dbmoodb> what is openssl under ?
[13:22] <\sh> dbarnett_, apache style
[13:22] <dbmoodb> -sorry for popping up so much
[13:22] <\sh> effie_jayx, you can try to link against gnutls
[13:22] <\sh> effie_jayx, but this could lead to other problems...
[13:23] <\sh> dbarnett_, sorry.
[13:23] <dholbach> \sh: no, doesn't seem to have gnutls bits included
[13:23] <\sh> dbmoodb, apache license...this is not compatible with GPL
[13:23] <kelmo> ref for openssl vs GPL: http://www.gnome.org/~markmc/openssl-and-the-gpl.html
[13:23] <dholbach> thanks kelmo
[13:24] <dbmoodb> well i was just reading the exceptions
[13:24] <kelmo> (which is part of ftp-master REJECT faq, http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html)
[13:24] <\sh> dholbach, so, I think it's easier to ask upstream maintainer to grant the rights to link against openssl
[13:24] <dbmoodb> on the wikipedia page
[13:24] <dholbach> effie_jayx: did you try to build in a pbuilder?
[13:24] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  yes
[13:25]  * dholbach takes a quick look at the source package
[13:25] <effie_jayx> while he is at it...
[13:25] <effie_jayx> to the rest... you can check the whole story on this package in my motu journal
[13:25] <dbmoodb> - just a comment - could you not do a sneaky thing (would not encourage this) and package wget with this pop proxy thing and then cross link them- or just go well we can now distribute openssl due to the wget exception
[13:25] <effie_jayx> where I documented the whole process
[13:26] <effie_jayx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EfrainValles/MOTUJourney <----- lesson 5
[13:26] <dholbach> dbmoodb: what do you mean?
[13:26] <dbmoodb> well the apparently the GNU wget has a special exception i think
[13:26] <dholbach> yes
[13:26] <dholbach> "In addition, as a special exception, the Free Software Foundation
[13:26] <dholbach> gives permission to link the code of its release of Wget with the
[13:26] <dholbach> OpenSSL project's "OpenSSL" library (or with modified versions of it
[13:26] <dholbach> that use the same license as the "OpenSSL" library), ...."
[13:27] <dholbach> /usr/share/doc/wget/copyright
[13:27] <dholbach> that unfortunately is not part of the p3scan COPYING file
[13:27] <dbmoodb> wait what ?
[13:27] <dbmoodb> you missed the licence part
[13:27] <dbmoodb> the gnu wget is still gpl ? no
[13:27] <dholbach> yes it is
[13:27] <dholbach> but it has this added section I quoted in parts
[13:28] <dbmoodb> ok so ....
[13:28] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  where did you ckec for this
[13:28] <dbmoodb> you could invoke wget lol as a way around it
[13:28] <dbmoodb> - sneaky and you could get permission from the maintainer probably anyway
[13:28] <\sh> effie_jayx, p3scan upstream
[13:28] <dholbach> effie_jayx: I read the LICENSE file in the source I downloaded with    apt-get source p3scan
[13:29] <effie_jayx> cool
[13:29] <dholbach> dbmoodb: it's always important to speak to the upstream maintainers, especially in cases like this one
[13:29] <cool> effie_jayx, say?
[13:29] <dbmoodb> - as i said - sneaky and don't do it
[13:29] <jono> effie_jayx: rock on with the blog posts :)
[13:30] <dholbach> cool: the joke gets old now :)
[13:30] <effie_jayx> jono,  I am trying but I am stuck in a conferences... feeling very jono-like
[13:30] <cool> :(
[13:30] <cool> ok
[13:30] <jono> hehe
[13:30]  * dholbach hugs cool
[13:30]  * effie_jayx with sucky internet conections
[13:30] <maiatoday> effie_jayx: just found your blog, this will help me get out of my hesitant state
[13:30] <dbmoodb> lol
[13:30]  * cool hopes that was a friendly hug :p
[13:31] <cool> not the other one
[13:31] <dholbach> effie_jayx: to be honest, I have trouble finding out how to fix this one
[13:31] <dholbach> effie_jayx: it might be worth sending this log to the upstream mailing list or something similar and ask for advice
[13:32] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  no problem... but I am keen on finding one I can fix
[13:32] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  the important stuff is ...
[13:32] <dholbach> effie_jayx: a usual way would have been to add something like    --disable-ssl    to a ./configure script
[13:32] <effie_jayx> I learned interdiff for checking the code diferences
[13:32] <dholbach> effie_jayx: unfortunately this source does not contain such a script
[13:32] <effie_jayx> and finding stuff
[13:32] <dholbach> effie_jayx: nice, interdiff is a very useful tool, especially now that we have persia's interdiff guide
[13:33] <nenolod> oh hey, the packaging Q&A is going on =)
[13:33] <dholbach> effie_jayx: I think it'd be worth pointint out that there's a build problem regarding this update and that we need to contact upstream on the bug report
[13:33]  * persia requests feedback if the guide is confusing to anyone
[13:33] <dholbach> that's important about working with bug reports: as soon as you have more info: provide to everybody who might be interested in it
[13:34] <dholbach> effie_jayx: sorry, if I couldn't help you out with this one
[13:34] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  yes... My intention was to learn
[13:34] <kelmo> persia: could you please let me know where the interdiff guide is located?
[13:34] <effie_jayx> and I did learn a bit...
[13:34] <dholbach> effie_jayx: if you're determined to fix this one, take the upstream route
[13:34] <dholbach> effie_jayx: if not, there's a lot of other 'upgrade' bugs you can probably help out with
[13:34] <dholbach> welcome nenolod
[13:34] <nenolod> hi dholbach
[13:35] <dholbach> do we have any more questions? packaging problems? process questions?
[13:35] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  thanks ...
[13:35] <persia> kelmo: It's currently at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/Interdiff, but will be moving to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Interdiff in around 15 hours.
[13:35]  * huats I have a question : I have build a library update in my pbuilder, and I need that update to be able to build another package . Is there anything to configure in my pbuilder so that it will take into account my library ?
[13:36] <nenolod> huats, just add a local apt repository that your pbuilder can pull from
[13:36] <persia> huats: There are a couple local repository hook scripts, but the easiest way is to build a local repository first, and then add that to pbuilder.
[13:36] <stdin> mini-dinstall is good for that
[13:36] <dholbach> or just apt-ftparchive
[13:36] <huats> ok
[13:36] <nenolod> for instance, the backports.dereferenced.org pbuilders receive a self-update signal every time a new package is installed into the archive
[13:37] <nenolod> and they depend on both gutsy/universe from canonical, and an overlay'd version
[13:37] <huats> I'll have a look at that so
[13:37] <dholbach> nenolod: it'd be nice to have that information on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[13:37] <nenolod> dholbach, yeah, i'll have to add it
[13:37] <dholbach> so it'll turn more and more in a pbuilder knowledge database
[13:37] <dholbach> ROCK!
[13:37] <huats> thanks all
[13:37] <huats> :)
[13:38] <dholbach> any more questions?
[13:38] <dholbach> or are things crystal clear? everybody knows where to get started and what to do next? :)
[13:38] <nenolod> but, the simple way is to pbuild the updated depends and add them to your local repo, and then update then build your new package
[13:38] <effie_jayx> dholbach, about debdiff's ... they are reffered to as patches...
[13:38]  * effie_jayx double checks
[13:38] <dholbach> effie_jayx: yeah
[13:38] <persia> effie_jayx: A debdiff is one of many ways to generate a patch.
[13:39] <dholbach> in most cases you can simply apply debdiffs by running           patch -p1 < ../bla.debdiff      just as other patches too
[13:39] <persia> More generally, a patch consists of a file containing a set of changes to a directory tree.  debdiff generates a patch to show the differences between two packages.
[13:39] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  can one upload a debdiff directly to a bug report in lauchpad
[13:39] <dholbach> effie_jayx: yeah, just attach it to the bug page
[13:40] <dholbach> like you'd normally add a comment
[13:40] <dholbach> below the huge text box
[13:40] <stdin> something I always wanted to know, why do some package have a number:version format version string? (like 3:2.1-1ubuntu1 for instance)
[13:40] <dholbach> when persia explains things, you could just quote him and print it in books, he's awesome!
[13:40] <kelmo> the dreaded epoch
[13:40] <dholbach> kelmo: want to explain?
[13:40] <norsetto> stdin: thats when upstream scrwed up ;-)
[13:40]  * maiatoday is stuck between step 3 and 4 of the getting started
[13:40] <kelmo> dholbach: could try
[13:41] <dholbach> kelmo: fire away
[13:41] <persia> stdin: The format is epoch ":" upstream-version "-" debian-revision "ubuntu" ubuntu-revision
[13:41] <kelmo> stdin: an epoch (the leading number) can allow a ner version that would otherwise have a lower version of package that already exists to enter the archive as an "update"
[13:41] <dholbach> kelmo: exactly
[13:42] <stdin> so when/why would that be used?
[13:42] <dholbach> let's say that in the beginning of the cycle I upload    gedit 2.21.0  because I think it might be ready by release time
[13:42]  * persia notes that in general, it's worth trying everything else first before adding an epoch
[13:42] <norsetto> quoting the debian policy: It is provided to allow mistakes in the version numbers of older versions of a package, and also a package's previous version numbering schemes, to be left behind.
[13:42] <dholbach> 4 weeks before I realize: this is not going to work
[13:42] <persia> stdin: A good example is for X: the old version was 7.something, but now it's modular, and the parts are 1.something.
[13:43] <dholbach> then I can upload the old 2.20.2 version that works well as     1:2.20.2
[13:43] <dholbach> which will be considered as a higher version number by dpkg
[13:43] <stdin> ahh, I think I get it now :)
[13:43]  * persia prefers 2.21really2.20.2 for the gedit example, as it will be fixed in the next release, and one can never undo an epoch
[13:43] <dholbach> but as everybody else said before: do everything else before you use an epoch :)
[13:43] <dholbach> because we can't sync from debian anymore (until they introduce an epoch)
[13:43] <dholbach> great, another problem solved
[13:44] <dholbach> who adds it to UbuntuDevelopment/FAQ? :)
[13:44] <stdin> ^ that one had been bugging me for a long time
[13:44] <dholbach> maiatoday: talk to us about it - what is causing you trouble between steps 3 and 4 on  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted ?
[13:44] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  why is there no recipe for merging?
[13:44]  * effie_jayx remembers there used to be one...
[13:44] <persia> effie_jayx: Each merge is different, so a recipe is hard.
[13:45] <maiatoday> well I am running the tools but have trouble choosing a useful task to get my teeth into
[13:45] <dholbach> effie_jayx: persia might want to answer this one
[13:45] <dholbach> maiatoday: did you look at MOTU/TODO and the bugs linked from there? anything that caught your attention?
[13:45] <dholbach> maiatoday: any programs you're interested in yourself?
[13:45] <persia> More explicity, merging is a human-intelligence task: the merger needs to understand the changes in Debian and the changes in Ubuntu, and the workflow required depends on the nature of the changes.
[13:45] <effie_jayx> ok
[13:46] <persia> We're working to make the merging guide cover the most common cases, but I'm not sure we'll reach Recipe status anytime soon; it would require singifiant logic upgrades to MoM.
[13:46] <proppy> bug #158605 up to review
[13:46] <maiatoday> I so a request to package gogh https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/164390/ but that's probably too advanced for me
[13:46] <effie_jayx> persia,  a quick question... MoM or DaD?
[13:47] <nenolod> i added some of my tricks to PbuilderHowto just now. As for the autosync from local repository to pbuilders, I'm going to have to come up with a good way to describe it ;)
[13:47] <proppy> dholbach: I set it back to In progress right ?
[13:47] <persia> effie_jayx: MoM has better intelligence, DaD has a nicer interface, I don't use either.
[13:47] <dholbach> proppy: please add a link to the source package
[13:47] <\sh> effie_jayx, use MoM for the grab-merge workflow if you want and add only the bug on DaDs frontpage...
[13:47] <dholbach> maiatoday: let me take a look at goph
[13:48] <norsetto> persia: having packages pulled from experimental for merging doesn't seem very intelligent to me
[13:48] <maiatoday> I thought it might be useful as I have equipment to test and use it myself
[13:48] <proppy> dholbach: not revu ?
[13:48] <effie_jayx> persia,  are there at least a couple of steps to follow to beging merging?
[13:48] <effie_jayx> some general notes of some sort
[13:48] <\sh> effie_jayx, but remind yourself, sometimes it's easier to see last ubuntu version and latest debian version in a clean environment without having MoM or DaD put their heads in...
[13:48] <dholbach> maiatoday: it might be an easy one
[13:49]  * effie_jayx is headed towards merging as an easier way to contribute
[13:49] <persia> norsetto: MoM should only be doing that when the last merge/sync was from Experimental (according to Origin).  It tries to follow the last path as closely as possible.  As I said, it's a human-intelligence task.
[13:49] <dholbach> maiatoday: I'd suggest to check out a few reference packages: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Lists/ReferencePackages
[13:49] <dholbach> maiatoday: it looks to me like it could be similar to the jokosher package
[13:49] <persia> effie_jayx: I'd recommend making another change in a package, and watching MoM and DaD.  When your package comes up, you'll be in good shape to work on the merge.
[13:49] <dholbach> maiatoday: if you want to look at that one first and see if you can understand the bits and pieces in debian/
[13:50] <persia> effie_jayx: Also, take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
[13:50] <proppy> oups it's #classroom here I thought it was #motu sorry
[13:50] <dholbach> maiatoday: also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic should explain the different relevant portions in debian/ directory
[13:50] <maiatoday> dholbach: ok I'll try build jokosher
[13:50] <proppy> dholbach: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=juce
[13:50]  * norsetto kicks proppy out of the room :-)
[13:50] <\sh> norsetto, if the last package was synced from experimental and someone was fixing something on this package for ubuntu, it's quite ok to use the path from experimental again...I think it's written in the list of sync magic and MoM Merlin Magic
[13:50] <dholbach> proppy: add it to the bug report please
[13:51] <dholbach> what other advice can we give maiatoday?
[13:51] <proppy> dholbach: I've already done that :)
[13:51] <dholbach> maiatoday is looking for easy tasks to get started with
[13:51] <dholbach> proppy: good, then it's ok as 'In Progress'
[13:52] <proppy> dholbach: ok :)
[13:52] <dholbach> maiatoday: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages is also relevant when packaging new stuff
[13:52]  * maiatoday bookmarking links for late night reading :)
[13:52] <dholbach> rock and roll
[13:52] <effie_jayx> persia, so changes in packages through an upgrade ?
[13:53] <persia> maiatoday: For easy tasks, you might look at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/lintian/reports/tags.html.  Some of these are fairly easy, and there's usually a few of each, so you can get some practice with them.
[13:53] <persia> effie_jayx: If the context is a merge, yes.
[13:53] <dholbach> persia: is that linked from MOTU/TODO?
[13:53] <persia> dholbach: I'm not sure: I'm still compiling the QA list, and haven't merged with MOTU/TODO yet.
[13:54] <dholbach> persia: it'd be nice to have
[13:54] <persia> dholbach: It's in the queue :)
[13:54] <dholbach> PARTY ON
[13:54]  * norsetto wears a funny hat
[13:54] <dholbach> maiatoday: let me know how you do with goph
[13:55] <dholbach> which brings me to another topic: letting the world know about what you do!
[13:55] <dholbach> what would be great, now that you're all starting to become MOTUs is blogging
[13:55] <dholbach> if you take a leaf out of effie_jayx's book and blog about your MOTU process, that'd be awesome
[13:56] <dholbach> you can easily get added to http://ubuntuweblogs.org/
[13:56] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  it's hard when internet reeks in this part of venezuela
[13:56] <dholbach> http://ubuntuweblogs.org/submit.html explains how
[13:56]  * effie_jayx looks into getting added there too
[13:56] <dholbach> effie_jayx: thanks for your MOTU entries :)
[13:56] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  more on the way chief
[13:56] <dholbach> rock on
[13:57] <dholbach> any final questions?
[13:57] <mrsno> dholbach could you kindly explain the difference between planet ubuntu and ubuntuweblogs? is weblogs for motu only?
[13:57] <dholbach> mrsno: you can get on Planet Ubuntu only if you are an ubuntu member
[13:57] <effie_jayx> please try to document your succeses and failures
[13:57] <dholbach> motu membership includes ubuntumembers membership, so it might take a while until you get on planet
[13:58] <effie_jayx> and make them available somewhere...
[13:58] <effie_jayx> maybe a forum?
[13:58] <dholbach> and up until then ubuntuweblogs is a good place
[13:58] <mrsno> ok great, never heard of the weblogs one before so ill add to my growing list of tabs, thanks :)
[13:58]  * fredo had problems to build gst-plugins-bad from source package.
[13:58] <dholbach> mrsno: it's a great planet
[13:58] <dholbach> fredo: what happened?
[13:58] <fredo> But I'm really new to packaging, so maybe I made silly mistakes.
[13:58] <dholbach> fredo: the guys dealing with gstreamer hang out on #ubuntu-desktop - maybe they can help you get started too
[13:59] <fredo> There was a infinite list of gconf errors at the end, after compiling.
[13:59] <fredo> dholbach: Ah, that's good, maybe I'll contact him.
[13:59] <dholbach> it might have been a missing build-depends
[13:59] <dholbach> fredo: great
[13:59] <dholbach> thanks everybody for coming to the session
[13:59] <dholbach> we'll have it again next week, same time
[13:59] <dholbach> so hope to see you there
[14:00] <dholbach> thanks for your excellent questions
[14:00] <nenolod> also if you're working on new packages, you should try to put them in debian =)
[14:00] <mrsno> thx dholbach + all
[14:00] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  thanks again for the support
[14:00]  * dholbach hugs y'all
[14:00] <huats> thanks dholbach
[14:00] <effie_jayx> we are on the road to MOTUness
[14:00] <maiatoday> thanks dholbach and all
[14:00] <dholbach> yeah :-)
[14:00] <dholbach> any more questions can go to #ubuntu-motu
[14:00] <kelmo> thanks, n8
[17:48] <corevette> what is the command for an md5sum
[17:48] <corevette> to check an iso for example
[17:49] <cool> !md5sum
[17:49] <ubotu> To verify the integrity of a download, use the md5sum - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM for more
[19:30] <MikeMeilleur> hi
[19:30] <cool> MikeMeilleur, hello