[04:10] <calc> cjwatson: yea know about the issue wrt OOo been working on it along with several other fixes for several days now
[04:10] <calc> cjwatson: last bit left is to determine what feisty did for broffice splash and fix up gutsy's and then upload
[04:11]  * calc was off today for national holiday
[04:12] <calc> cjwatson: did you get my email last night about the openoffice.org-cd-reduction blueprint?
[04:13] <calc> cjwatson: i was unable to post it since launchpad was down for a prolonged (longer than specified) outage which extended until very late local time
[04:15]  * Hobbsee curses at hardy's borkenness
[04:15] <calc> Hobbsee: whats broken for you?
[04:15] <Hobbsee> calc: my X keeps freezing
[04:16] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: threaten it with the DOOM stick
[04:16]  * Hobbsee wonders what this laptop is even running
[04:17] <calc> Hobbsee: oh :(
[04:17] <Hobbsee> edgy, it appears
[04:17] <Hobbsee> and if it doesnt blow up, i'll be in luck
[04:19] <lifeless> Hobbsee: rofl
[04:19] <Hobbsee> lifeless: i almost renamed this machine to OnFire for a reason!
[04:20] <pwnguin> because it plays Frets?
[04:21] <Hobbsee> no...
[04:23] <Hobbsee> lifeless: i've had this thing up to 89C before
[04:23] <lifeless> Hobbsee: miaow!
[04:23] <calc> nice
[04:23] <ajmitch> only 89?
[04:24] <ajmitch> I suppose, it is a laptop
[04:24] <calc> Hobbsee: that would probably kill a Core 2
[04:24] <RAOF> Hm.  When does the autosync run again?  I'd like git-core to be installable again :)
[04:24] <ajmitch> highest I've seen on one of my systems was 93
[04:24] <ajmitch> that box is now dead, of course :)
[04:24] <Hobbsee> and update-manager autofreezes.  yay
[04:24]  * RAOF 's GPU hits 95 under load.
[04:24] <LaserJock> my laptop keep shutting off a ~ 90C
[04:25] <LaserJock> *kept
[04:25] <StevenK> I've not seen how hot this machine gets
[04:25] <RAOF> LaserJock: Tell it to push through the pain barrier!
[04:25] <LaserJock> RAOF: I cracked it open and cleaned out the fan an put on fresh thermal paste
[04:25] <LaserJock> now it's running 40-50C
[04:25] <ajmitch> it feels like beer o'clock
[04:26] <LaserJock> that reminds me of our wonder uni Apple support
[04:26] <LaserJock> my labmate had an iMac that was constantly overheating and shutting down
[04:26] <LaserJock> and she'd have to leave it of for a couple hours
[04:26] <LaserJock> she called the help desk people and had the support guy come over
[04:27] <Hobbsee> i think i'll upgrade X, and see what happens
[04:27] <LaserJock> and he said "huh, why don't you just put a fan behind it?"
[04:27] <LaserJock> so she ran it with a fan blowing on the back of it until it got fried in a power outage
[04:27] <calc> the highest i've seen a cpu was in a desktop and that was in the 80s
[04:28] <calc> was the regular operating temperature for the chip though
[04:28] <RAOF> Heh.  That'd be one of the pentium 4s, right?
[04:28] <LaserJock> geeze
[04:28] <calc> an athlon 1200 (iirc)
[04:28] <LaserJock> my desktop procs don't get above 50C
[04:28] <ajmitch> sounds about right
[04:28] <calc> somewhere around 185F
[04:28] <ajmitch> my one that got to 93C was an athlon xp
[04:28] <LaserJock> calc: did you check the thermal grease/tape?
[04:29] <calc> it still did that temp even with a lapped heatsink and good thermal compound
[04:29] <calc> it was on my dad's pc so i checked it out and apparently it was within specs
[04:29] <LaserJock> my athlon XP 1800+ dropped ~20C avg temp after I redid the thermal compound
[04:29] <calc> iirc the top temp it was rated for was ~ 95C
[04:30] <calc> it wasn't an XP it was original athlon (chip based not slot)
[04:30] <calc> my XP was much lower temps
[04:30] <calc> iirc the max my XP got to was around 60C
[04:30] <LaserJock> ah
[04:30] <LaserJock> that sounds like mine
[04:30] <calc> but that was many years ago so i am not certain about its exact load temp
[04:31]  * calc wants a core octo ;)
[04:31] <calc> build OOo faster!
[04:31] <LaserJock> my athlon XP is my fastest machine still
[04:31] <ajmitch> calc: what, in only 18 hours?
[04:31] <StevenK> calc: Then buy an 8-core Niagra
[04:31] <calc> i have a core 2 duo 2.8GHz
[04:32] <calc> isn't niagra a bunch of low end cores?
[04:32] <calc> in any case sun hardware is way to expensive
[04:33] <StevenK> calc: Eight 1.4GHz SPARCv9 cores
[04:33]  * calc wishes wine could run Adobe CS 3 already
[04:34] <calc> ah, i thought they were crippled in some way to achieve that, maybe i am misremembering
[04:35] <Hobbsee> sigh.  X broke.
[04:36] <StevenK> LaserJock: You need an amd64
[04:37] <LaserJock> StevenK: I do
[04:37] <LaserJock> I just got a "new" machine
[04:37] <LaserJock> a 1.7GHz P4
[04:37] <StevenK> LaserJock: And we need ponies
[04:37] <LaserJock> yep, working on it
[04:38] <LaserJock> ah well, at least my computing situation isn't as bad as imbrandon
[04:40] <calc> i'm going to try to hold out on upgrading until dec 2009
[04:41] <calc> of course i love new machines so that will be hard, heh
[04:41] <LaserJock> I should be graduating this spring
[04:41] <StevenK> Why until then?
[04:41] <calc> StevenK: 3 years since my last new machine
[04:41] <LaserJock> and my reward is going to be a new laptop
[04:41] <calc> hard drives and ram increases are so pathetic for the past 5 years that it probably won't even be worthwhile until then anyway
[04:42] <calc> cpu are getting faster but not that much either
[04:42] <calc> i bought a 2gb hard drive in spring 1996 and  100gb drive in oct 2001
[04:42] <LaserJock> I'm just getting a bit behind with everything
[04:43] <calc> and the largest available hard drive is still only 1TB now
[04:43] <Hobbsee> it appears that gnome-control-center needs a rebuild.
[04:43] <calc> it should be up to like 100TB by now
[04:44] <TheMuso> calc: I'd say we are starting to hit the upper limits of current technologies.
[04:44] <Hobbsee> no, a merge
[04:44] <calc> TheMuso: yea way past the limit, heh
[04:44] <persia> calc: There's also a price factor: 1TB today isn't very expensive.
[04:44] <calc> from 5MB ~ 1985 to 100GB in 2001 to 1TB in 2006
[04:45] <calc> persia: it costs more than 100GB in 2001
[04:46] <persia> calc: I'll trust you: I haven't purchased a TB storage device since 1997, but it was expensive then.
[04:46] <calc> 1TB in 1997 would probably have been in the 150K range (i would guess)
[04:46] <calc> er $150K USD
[04:47] <LaserJock> hmm, I could by a new laser for that
[04:47] <persia> calc: We paid about 200k USD, but that included the routing HW, Digital support, etc.
[04:47] <calc> i helped install a large 2 rack 250GB (max) worm drive system back around 1994
[04:47] <calc> i bet that cost a large sum of money back then
[04:48] <persia> 2 racks?  Anything with 2 racks is still expensive :)
[04:48] <calc> looks like 1TB drive still costs ~ $280 USD now
[04:48] <calc> persia: yea they were 12" WORM discs iirc
[04:49]  * persia is amused that 1TB drives are currently cheaper than 10GB drives, which frequently sell for > 100,000 yen
[04:57] <calc> why would anyone buy a 10GB drive, is anyone even still making them?
[04:58] <TheMuso> IMO small drives still have their uses. Pitty they aren't as fast as the drives of today however.
[05:01] <persia> calc: People seem to like them for vast farms of SparcStation 2s.  These are common in factory automation environments, etc.
[05:01] <calc> well if they were manufactured long ago they are more likely to fail... so just buy the smallest modern drive, 100gb or whatever
[05:03] <persia> calc: Not supported by ancient Solaris.
[05:04] <calc> ancient solaris isn't supported either... is it?
[05:05] <IntuitiveNipple> Interesting issue: xchat2 icon in the notification panel has just zoomed it's icon about 500% so all I can see is the top half of the X, and it is about 3x normal width... what'd cause that?
[05:05] <persia> calc: Not by Sun, but turnkey vendors support it for the turnkey systems, as it's cheaper than porting to keep up, when one can just release a new turnkey, and migrate customers after the 8-10 year depreciation has finished.
[05:05] <calc> ah
[05:08]  * Hobbsee ponders if it's worth attempting to fixthis today
[05:11] <Hobbsee> aww, crap
[05:11] <Hobbsee> what am i supposed to do if ia have no more gnome-screensaver, and the machine has gone into powersave?
[05:13] <Hobbsee> ah, shut it down remotely.  got it.
[06:26] <pitti> Good morning
[06:26] <Hobbsee> morning pitti!
[06:27] <thegodfather> hey Hobbsee
[06:27] <Hobbsee> hi thegodfather
[06:27] <Hobbsee> thegodfather: why are you titled as such, today?
[06:27] <thegodfather> Hobbsee: new nick
[06:27] <Hobbsee> well, obviously, but why?
[06:28] <thegodfather> you are gonna have to guess that :)
[06:29] <Hobbsee> :P
[06:40] <slangasek> thegodfather: because you're now a godfather?
[06:40] <thegodfather> slangasek: i was before as well :)
[06:41] <slangasek> because you've opened a pizza delivery service?
[06:49] <thegodfather> slangasek: :)
[06:59] <tjaalton> thegodfather: you are now in the waste management business?-)
[07:00] <thegodfather> tjaalton: pizza delivery  :)
[07:02] <tjaalton> thegodfather: so in a sense, yes :)
[07:07] <DaBonBon> pitti: are you aorund ?
[07:08] <DaBonBon> pitti: you'd told me that to change locale in kubuntu one needs to edit /etc/environment .. in that file on my machine i've put LANG="en_US.utf8" .. yet in konsole echo $LANG shows en_IN
[07:09] <pitti> DaBonBon: hm, there might be something in KDE which overrides it, I'm not sure; but KDE certainly has its own language selector? Hobbsee?
[07:13] <Hobbsee> pitti: pass.
[07:19] <dholbach> good morning
[07:45] <dholbach> can somebody please sync traverso from sid?
[07:49] <dholbach> pitti: can you sync  traverso  from sid?
[07:53] <DaBonBon> pitti: i don't think kde has it's own
[07:54] <DaBonBon> wow, i guess i missed something.. brb.
[07:54] <pitti> dholbach: done
[07:55] <dholbach> pitti: thanks a lot, now I can close ONE of the 247684276426 needs-packaging bugs
[07:55] <pitti> :)
[07:55] <dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring exploded
[07:55] <pitti> oh, was it a new package from Debian?
[07:55] <dholbach> yeah
[07:55] <pitti> ah; please don't ask me to do that for a particular package in the future
[07:56] <pitti> I was going to sync all new stuff from Debian today anyway
[07:56] <dholbach> ok good :)
[07:56] <pitti> and it's easier that way with source NEW etc.
[07:56]  * pitti news
[07:56]  * dholbach hugs pitti
[07:56]  * pitti hugs dholbach *knuddel*
[07:57] <dholbach> pitti: sorry for the extra-work - I got desperate, when I looked at the list :)
[07:57] <pitti> NP
[07:59] <DaBonBon> pitti: my fault, i didn't notice it .. it's deep somewhere in kcontrol ..
[07:59] <DaBonBon> ty anyway :)
[08:00] <DaBonBon> though shouldn't the system follow LANG from /etc/environment ?
[08:00] <Hobbsee> DaBonBon: i suspect kde localisation is borked.
[08:01] <DaBonBon> well after selecting US English from Kcontrol -> Regional and language settings -> System language -> Dialog box i could set it :D
[08:01] <DaBonBon> Hobbsee: borked in what way ?
[08:03] <Hobbsee> as in, doesn't work
[08:04] <DaBonBon> oh ok ..
[08:04] <DaBonBon> actually it's highly irritating that the installer sets the locale automatically .. atleast in the "Expert Settings" mode an option should be given to modify the locale :-/
[08:25] <DaBonBon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/164648 -- :)
[08:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164648 in ubiquity "Allow user to select preferred locale" [Undecided,New]
[08:26] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[08:44] <pitti> hey MacSlow
[08:48] <MacSlow> Tag pitti
[08:48] <StevenK> Hum.
[08:49] <StevenK> The new gimp provides is own printing plugin, conflicts with gimp-print, and now gimp-print is gimp-gutenprint
[08:49]  * StevenK merges gutenprint
[08:53] <DaBonBon> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sun-java6/+bug/127053 could someone triage this and mark it as New if required ?
[08:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127053 in sun-java6 "Problem in sun-java6-jdk documentation" [Low,Fix released]
[08:54] <DaBonBon> (sorry, I meant that for #ubuntu , not here ! )
[09:22] <mdz> cjwatson: regarding your question from yesterday evening, what I pointed out was that ckbcomp will be run at boot (via setupcon --save) *unless* the init.d script detects itself being run by init.  the mobile folks have observed (via bootchart) ckbcomp running, so I inferred that that logic was not working
[09:23] <warp10> Hi all!
[09:24] <milos> hello, i have a bug to report, who do i turn to?
[09:27] <\sh> milos, http://www.launchpad.net/
[09:27] <pitti> hi warp10
[09:27] <milos> thc
[09:27] <milos> thx
[09:28] <warp10> pitti: hi martin! I got your mail, thanks. :)
[09:31] <pitti> whoops
[09:31] <milos> \sh can you give me a direct link to the official kubuntu section?
[09:31] <pitti> sorry guys for the source NEW spam on -changes (new sources from Debian, forgot to disable mail)
[09:31] <milos> there are a lot of ubuntu/kubuntu entries, i don`t know where to post my problem
[09:32] <\sh> milos, there is no special kubuntu section...you need to know the package name and search for it...and file the bug against the package
[09:33] <milos> well.. what is the package that runs the bootcd installer? :)
[09:33] <\sh> pitti, debian removed ircii-pana from their archive....can we remove it from hardy as well now? there is a bug filed already
[09:33] <\sh> milos, debian-installer?
[09:33] <milos> not that one
[09:33] <milos> the graphical one
[09:33] <\sh> ubiquity
[09:33] <pitti> \sh: I'll do some mass-removal processing soon
[09:34] <Fujitsu> pitti: I fail to see a problem in changes going to -changes.
[09:34] <pitti> \sh: as well as traverse the bug list
[09:34] <milos> ok
[09:34] <\sh> pitti, cool thx :)
[09:34] <pitti> Fujitsu: traditionally we don't mention autosyncs from Debian
[09:34] <milos> and for kubuntu?
[09:34] <milos> (the same thing happens in both distros)
[09:34] <\sh> milos, it's the same...
[09:34] <milos> thx!
[09:34] <Fujitsu> pitti: Right, which I think is a bit strange.
[09:34] <milos> you have been very helpful!
[09:34] <\sh> milos, ubiquity has a gnome and a kde frontend...it's the same package
[09:37] <milos> ubiquity does not use Launchpad as its bug tracker.
[09:37] <milos> :/
[09:37] <milos> meh, nevermind
[09:37] <milos> i`m prolly the only one that has that problem :(
[09:37] <milos> i`ll just use alternative cd and debian-installer
[09:43] <soren> pitti: I agree with Fujitsu. I realise it would increase the volume significantly, but I subscribe to *-changes to see what changes in Ubuntu, and new stuff (new packages or just new versions of packages) from Debian that gets imported is still a change to Ubuntu.
[09:44] <soren> pitti: If I really wasn't interested, it would not be that hard to make a procmail rule that discarded any mail to *-changes that didn't have "ubuntu" in the subject.
[09:44] <pitti> that's a lot of mail for autosyncs, especially for the first one (some 2000 mails!)
[09:44] <Ng> milos: its "upstream" project page does say it doesn't use lp for bugs, but you can still file bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/
[09:44] <pitti> and if you are interested, you better read debian-changes
[09:44] <soren> 2000 interesting mails, IMO :)
[09:45] <pitti> soren: by the same argument we don't get changelogs from other upstreams either
[09:45] <soren> pitti: Hm?
[09:45] <pitti> soren: well, that list is meant to describe changes Ubuntu folks did to Ubuntu, not our upstreams
[09:47] <soren> pitti: Updating package foo from version 1.0-1 to 2.0-1 in Ubuntu is a change to Ubuntu. Regardless of the origin of the update.
[09:48] <soren> pitti: Ok, rephrasing: I'd really like to have some way of getting notified about *every* upload to Ubuntu, and I really consider *-changes the most suitable place for that sort of thing. Maybe we could add some additional headers to the mails there, so that people could more easily filter out automatic syncs or whatever.
[09:49] <soren> pitti: I've not completely understood your argument about other upstreams.. Which other upstreams are we talking about? Could you give an example?
[09:49] <pitti> then I think we should revive https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-changes-auto/
[09:50] <pitti> soren: we don't put the changelogs from OO.o, Gnome, etc. to that list either
[09:50] <pitti> just Debian's changelogs for autosyncs (which we don't do usually)
[09:50] <soren> pitti: Indeed, but there's a mail on that list when there's a new oo.o upload.. If I'm interested in the details, I can look them up.
[09:51] <pitti> having a separate ML seems more appropriate to me, and you can sort them into the same folder if you want
[09:53] <soren> pitti: The difference between OO.o, GNome, etc.  and Debian is that a change in OO.o doesn't change anything in Ubuntu until someone uploads said change, but a change in Debian does.
[09:53] <pitti> right
[09:53] <pitti> soren: so WDYT about -changes-auto@?
[09:54] <soren> pitti: It would indeed solve my problem.
[09:54] <soren> pitti: I'm just still puzzled why it's a separate list.
[09:54] <soren> pitti: I don't think automatic changes are any less relevant than UBuntu specific ones are.
[09:55] <pitti> most people are interested about things Ubuntu devs change in Ubuntu, and getting 2000 mails on one day is not generally considered nice by many people
[09:56] <pitti> so providing an opt-in with -changes-auto seems better to me than starting to spam people
[09:56] <pitti> soren: they aren't less releavant
[09:57] <pitti> for the functioning of Ubuntu
[09:57] <soren> pitti: I don't know "most people", so I can't say anything about what they're interested in. I can only say that if I subscribe to hardy-changes that early in the release cycle I wouldn't be one bit surprised to get a massive flood of mails about stuff that gets imported. I'd expect it.
[09:57] <pitti> but they are less interesting to many people to read the details about them
[09:57] <soren> pitti: I don't think we'll get much further with this discussion. Reviving auto-changes will give me the info I want, so that's fine.
[09:57] <pitti> ok, great
[09:58] <soren> I reserve the right to think it's odd, though :)
[10:06]  * Hobbsee finds it annoying that the merge bugs are just filled with "remaining ubuntu changes" but you rarely tend to see what *debian* has changed
[10:06] <persia> pitti: While I tend to read changelogs from sources other than the mailing list, finding Debian changelogs with which I disagree is a common prompt for me to make an Ubuntu upload.  I'm only interested in a subset of packages, but for someone with wider scope, the ML may be a strong point.
[10:06] <persia> Hobbsee: Kick it back if they don't include the Debian changelog.
[10:06] <Hobbsee> but that may well be because of the options used for merging
[10:06] <Hobbsee> persia: it's auto-accepting
[10:06] <Hobbsee> as in, debian changelog is there, but not shown in the mails to -changes
[10:07] <soren> Hobbsee: If people don't debuild -v<last ubuntu version> someone should politely tell them to do so.
[10:07] <persia> Hobbsee: If it's not shown in the mail, the uploader made a mistake: one should always generate a changelog containing all changes since the last Ubuntu release.  I use `debuild -S -v(last ubuntu version)` for that.
[10:08] <Hobbsee> soren: or have keybuk yelling, yes.
[10:09] <soren> Hobbsee: Well, yes, depending on who did it.
[10:09] <soren> Hobbsee: If it's one of his minions, sure :)
[10:09]  * Hobbsee taught this room a whole new expletive that day...
[10:09] <Hobbsee> soren: he doesn't only blast his minions for it
[10:09] <Hobbsee> unless i'm suddenly a minion, without realising.
[10:10] <soren> Hobbsee: oh :)
[10:15] <Keybuk> When did I yell?
[10:17] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: a while ago, when i didnt use MoM at all.
[10:17] <Keybuk> I bet I didn't tell
[10:17] <Keybuk> yell
[10:17] <Keybuk> see, I can't even spell yell
[10:18] <Hobbsee> sure?
[10:23] <StevenK> I remember cjwatson telling someone about -v
[10:31] <TheMuso> I have a package I am trying to merge, which is a frontend for another package in the archive. The backend package in question uses libgcrypt11, which recently had its .la file moved from /lib to /usr/lib. The frontend FTBFS on this, as the .la can't be found in /lib. However, attempting to rebuild the backend package results in the package still assuming that the .la file is in /lib, when its in /usr/lib.
[10:31] <TheMuso> The libgcrypt11 .la file is listed in several .la files in the backend package, in the dependency_libs field.
[10:31] <TheMuso> I've noticed that libgcrypt11 uses clean-la.mk for use with cdbs. I am wondering whether I should re-upload the backend package with this code in debian/rules, to clean the .la files. I've tested this, and it allows the frontend package (my merge), to build. I am wondering however, whether this is the right approach to take.
[10:32] <Mithrandir> TheMuso: cleaning .la files is fine, on a general basis
[10:34] <TheMuso> Mithrandir: Ok. I guess the only other question then, is whether this code will be put into something else that is usable by packages that use staright debhelper, which this backend package does. If not, I'll copy/paste and modify the clean-la.mk cdbs code accordingly for the package.
[10:35] <TheMuso> straight*
[10:42] <pitti> TheMuso: I added the sed to gnutls13, which doesn't use cdbs (AFAIR)
[10:42] <pitti> TheMuso: it took us about 5 uploads until we tamed those *($#$# .la files enough to not break libgpg-error/gnutls13/libgcrypt11 any more
[10:42] <pitti> TheMuso: unfortunately we had to put it back
[10:42] <pitti> TheMuso: but putting it into /lib is useless, libtool doesn't find it there
[10:42] <Mithrandir> pitti: why did we have to pit it back?
[10:42] <Mithrandir> put, even
[10:43] <mvo> doko: hello! I'm currently checking my stuff to forward to debian and noticed that python-gamin-dbg is something we may want to forward. is there a spec or anything that explains a bit about the rational for the python-dbg packages? I would like to have something to point people at when sending the diff to debian
[10:43] <pitti> I forgot, someone else did that; /me checks changelog
[10:44] <pitti> hm, StevenK, why did you put back the .la to libgpg-error again?
[10:44] <pitti> libgpg-error (1.4-2ubuntu7) hardy; urgency=low
[10:44] <pitti>   * Add symlink from /lib/libgpg-error.la to /usr/lib/libgpg-error.la
[10:44] <pitti>     since /lib is where other .la files expect it to be
[10:44] <pitti>  -- Jonathan Riddell <jriddell@ubuntu.com>  Thu, 15 Nov 2007 23:19:09 +0000
[10:44] <pitti> TheMuso: ^ maybe you have to do that as well, but this is REALLY EVIL
[10:44] <TheMuso> pitti: heh, it does sound rather evil.
[10:45] <Riddell> if I have been evil, it is because I was standing on the shoulder of evil giants
[10:45]  * pitti hugs Riddell
[10:45] <pitti> it seems that three long-experienced developers haven't found a proper way to make .la files work for stuff in /ilb
[10:46] <pitti> /lib even
[10:46] <pitti> Riddell: standing on the thin and shaky evil libtool ground? :)
[10:46] <TheMuso> Sounds wonderful.
[10:47] <Mithrandir> we could, like, clean out those other .la files.
[10:47] <Mithrandir> I'd recommend that, especially now that we're in free-fire-mode.
[10:51] <TheMuso> In the case of the backend package, nothing goes into /lib, but its .la files point to the libgcrypt11 .la which it still thinks is in /lib, which it isn't... If the autotools foo was rebuilt for that package, would that change anything? Or, should I just clean the .la files and be done with it?
[10:52] <pitti> TheMuso: if it works without a .la at all, then this is preferable IMHO
[10:52] <pitti> TheMuso: but we need to remove .la files top-to-bottom, and clean their stated dependencies bottom-to-top
[10:53] <TheMuso> Right.
[10:55] <TheMuso> But if the .la files were removed from the backend -dev package, what is the likelyhood of something needing to be changed in the frontend package?
[10:55] <TheMuso> To not rely on the .la files
[10:56] <pitti> TheMuso: AFAIK, in the worst case, it FTBFSes and you need to remove the .la files from the reverse dependencies, too
[10:56] <doko> mvo: have to write this p
[10:56] <doko> mvo: the rationale is to provide an extension to be used with the python-dbg interpreter
[10:57] <TheMuso> pitti: I'm not that knowledgable with autotools.. What reverse dependencies are you referring to in this context?
[10:57] <pitti> TheMuso: reverse build dependencies I mean
[10:57] <TheMuso> pitti: Ah ok.
[10:57] <mvo> doko: thanks, I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PyDbgBuilds
[10:57] <pitti> TheMuso: e. g. if we would remove the .la files from libgpg-error-dev, then we would likely break the build of everything that build-depends on libgpg-error-dev
[10:57] <mvo> doko: it would have been cool to get a mail about this to ubuntu-deve-announce, it looks incredible useful
[10:58] <TheMuso> pitti: Yep, I understand now.
[10:58] <pitti> TheMuso: which is why we just remove the 'dependencies' line from its .la, so that it does not spread any superfluous dependencies any more and not pull in the lower-level .la files any more
[10:58] <Mithrandir> .. and then we can get rid of the .la files in the next round.
[10:58] <pitti> right
[10:59] <TheMuso> pitti: Ok, so I'll just clean the .la files. Thanks for your explanations and help.
[10:59] <pitti> TheMuso: you're welcome; for non-cdbs; please look at gnutls13
[10:59] <TheMuso> pitti: Will do, thanks again.
[11:00] <pitti> TheMuso: hm, no, it wasn't gnutls13, that's cdbs, too
[11:00] <pitti> TheMuso: but well, it's just copying the sed -i, so it's no big deal
[11:00] <doko> mvo: hmm, didn't we do this for feisty?
[11:01] <StevenK> pitti: But I didn't...
[11:01] <pitti> libgpg-error (1.4-2ubuntu4) hardy; urgency=low
[11:01] <pitti>   * Install the .la again. Libtool, I will have my revenge!
[11:01] <TheMuso> pitti: Yeah, figured as much.
[11:01] <pitti>  -- Steve Kowalik <stevenk@ubuntu.com>  Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:13:41 +1100
[11:01] <pitti> StevenK: I know there was a reason for it, but I forgot
[11:02] <StevenK> pitti: Oh right, um, because it meant libtool went looking for it and then bitched it couldn't find it
[11:03] <mvo> doko: I can't find it here, maybe I overlooked it, but it seems to be not in my mailbox
[11:06] <seb128> doko: right, it's create load of extra work, would be nice to write some announce mail to debian about those and send the patches we have to the bts
[11:07] <seb128> it should have been made much early, we have lot of packages patches for that an often the debian/rules is changes are not trivial
[11:25] <rexbron> mr_pouit: Has the patch to stop gimp segfaulting with murrine been sent upstream. (It is in the debian package though)
[11:52] <dholbach> MOTU Meeting in 8 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
[12:00] <dholbach> pitti: MOTU Meeting :)
[12:00] <pitti> dholbach: joined, thanks
[12:00] <dholbach> thanks pitti
[12:04]  * highvoltage also attends for a change
[12:10] <carlos> pitti: hi
[12:10] <carlos> pitti: sorry for bother you again... what's the status of language pack generation?
[12:10] <pitti> carlos: they should all be in PPA, and I got some initial good feedback
[12:11] <carlos> are they in proposed already?
[12:30] <rexbron> mr_pouit: There is a major issue with the murrine package
[12:30] <rexbron> mr_pouit: the debian package does _not_ clean the patches when it builds the package. Afaict, it is in the debian rules, but was not called by the DD when it originally created
[12:35] <dholbach> thanks pitti
[12:35] <pitti> my pleasure, not much to do :)
[12:36] <pitti> carlos: I'll do that now
[12:37] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i see what you mean about this -intel driver being rather tempramental
[12:37] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yeees.
[12:37] <Fujitsu> Dieing on me a lot tonight.
[12:37] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Why did you upgrade?
[12:38] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: because of something else i upgraded, which gave me random syslocks.
[12:38] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[12:38] <Hobbsee> as in, X would entirely freeze, at random, with no way of fixing it, it appears
[12:38] <Hobbsee> yeah, 20 mins, and it had already crashed.
[12:38] <Fujitsu> -intel does that too, but with the added bonus of killing everything regularly.
[12:38] <Hobbsee> heh
[12:38] <Hobbsee> wonderful
[12:38] <Fujitsu> Although you can sysrq and suspend out of it, which is good.
[12:38] <Fujitsu> Hahahah.
[12:39] <pitti> seb128: new bug-buddy requires libelf-dev, which needs a MIR
[12:39] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Again?
[12:40] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A Session in #ubuntu-classoom in 20 minutes
[12:40] <Hobbsee> there we go.
[12:40] <Hobbsee> twice in 25 mins.  this could get fun.
[12:40] <ogra> pitti, uuuh, we'll have pulse in desktop now ?
[12:41]  * ogra just sees the changelog for edubuntu-desktop ... thanke for uploading btw
[12:41] <pitti> ogra: yes; you don't want it in edubuntu? I thought you were yearning for it
[12:41] <pitti> ogra: I merged your seeds, BTW (I think I didn't screw them up too badly)
[12:41] <ogra> pitti, i'm not sure the ltsp alsa emu works if pulse is installed locally
[12:41] <pitti> ogra: well, feel free to kick it out again
[12:41] <ogra> i dont care, i still have some months to fix them :)
[12:42] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I've had it within 5 minutes of restarting twice tonight.
[12:42] <ogra> welll, there wont be an edubuntu desktop like you knew it anymore after we redid the edubuntu CD design
[12:42] <Fujitsu> And sometimes suspending doesn't work, which is annoying.
[12:42] <ogra> the point is that i will just depend on ubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-desktop only adds artwork and a basic set of edu apps
[12:44] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: bring on the new kernel :)
[12:44] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Why?
[12:45] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: because then we get the new -intel
[12:45] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I have the new -intel.
[12:45] <Fujitsu> It doesn't actually need the new kernel.
[12:45] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: doesn't it require something or other from the kernel?
[12:45] <Hobbsee> that any better?  presumably not.
[12:45] <Fujitsu> It says it does, but apparently not.
[12:45] <Fujitsu> No, it's really not.
[12:45] <ogra> pitti, i actually thoght we were beyond the time where we need sound daemons
[12:45] <Fujitsu> Though I have had a couple of periods where it has gone for upwards of 12 hours.
[12:45] <ogra> what for do we add pulse ? only for the system sounds ?
[12:46] <Fujitsu> But other times just a few minutes or seconds.
[12:46] <pitti> ogra: apparently not, see the PulseAudio spec (lots of use cases)
[12:46]  * ogra goes looking ...
[12:47] <pitti> seb128: FYI, I'm traversing through http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/hardy_outdate.txt and give back some failed buids on the way
[12:49] <ogra> hrm ... no hal or consolekit on ltsp clients ... that will get tricky
[12:52] <pitti> doko: the ocaml merge blocks some packages from getting built; however, do we really need ocaml-native-compilers on lpia? (that's our only change)
[12:53] <Mithrandir> pitti: I don't think we care about ocaml on lpia
[12:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: the interpreter still works, and few packages need the native compiler
[12:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: so ok to sync that?
[12:54] <pitti> (nothing in main b-deps on -native-compilers)
[12:54] <Mithrandir> pitti: I don't mind, at least.
[12:54] <pitti> let's do it then, for the sake of avoiding unnecessary work
[12:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: thanks
[12:54] <doko> Mithrandir, pitti: As long as we don't have a simple way to sort out the packages in main not needed for lpia I would prefer to have the package be buildable, or else these show up as build failures
[12:55] <doko> pitti: please don't, you create extra work for buildd admins
[12:55] <pitti> doko: how so? it's simply not built for lpia then
[12:55] <doko> pitti: but other packages do fail?
[12:55] <pitti> doko: which? as I said, there's exactly one rdepends in the entire universe
[12:55] <doko> ahh, ok
[12:56] <pitti> (dag2html)
[12:56] <pitti> this won't be built on lpia then either
[12:56] <pitti> but *shrug*
[12:56] <pitti> doko: your call, though, if you want to do the merge, I don't object :)
[12:57] <doko> pitti: no, I don't care about universe build failures anymore =) these can be sorted out now with the help of new mail headers
[12:57] <pitti> ok
[12:58] <carlos> pitti: ok, thanks
[13:01] <pitti> seb128: eww, and gnome-games wants guile-1.8 now; MIR or drop that feature?
[13:02]  * StevenK tries to sort out gutenprint
[13:02] <doko> drop gnome-games ;p
[13:07] <pitti> Riddell: are you aware of the kdebase FTBFS?
[13:07] <ogra> doko, !
[13:07] <Riddell> mm, don't think so pitti
[13:07] <pitti> Riddell: and kdebindings is depwaiting on libgtk1.2-dev; I think it'll cost you lots of beer to convince me to promote that again :-P
[13:08] <Riddell> hrm, hal badness
[13:08] <Riddell> pitti: that'll be an oversite, I'll remove it
[13:09]  * pitti gives back kdebluetooth and hopes for the best
[13:09] <pitti> Riddell: thanks
[13:09] <seb128> pitti: hum, I think we could build with guile-1.6 again, but might it would make sense to try switching main to the new version?
[13:09] <seb128> s/might/maybe
[13:09] <pitti> seb128: ah, indeed, wasn't aware of 1.6; absolutely!
[13:10] <pitti> -- hardy/main build deps on guile-1.6-dev:
[13:10] <pitti> autogen
[13:10] <pitti> graphviz
[13:10] <pitti> swig1.3
[13:10] <seb128> I've no idea on how much change between 1.6 and 1.8 and how easy it would be to make those use the new version
[13:11] <seb128> but that's not too many package, easy to give it a try
[13:11] <StevenK> pitti: So, cupsys-driver-gimpprint, foomatic-db-gimp-print, and ijgimpprint are all transistional packages in Dapper - do they need to stick around for Hardy as well?
[13:12] <pitti> StevenK: if they were only used for upgrading *to* dapper, then we can drop them
[13:12] <pitti> anything used for upgrades *from* dapper needs to stay until after Hardy's release
[13:12] <doko> ogra: ?
[13:12] <StevenK> They were dropped since Etch released, I'm not sure
[13:13] <ogra> doko, dropping gnome-games ...
[13:13] <StevenK> pitti: Let me check Breezy
[13:13] <pitti> dh_install: kdepim-doc missing files (/usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kdepim-apidocs/*), aborting
[13:13]  * StevenK blows the dust off of his Breezy chroot
[13:13] <pitti> make: *** [binary-install/kdepim-doc] Error 1
[13:13] <pitti> Riddell: ^ another one for your list (i386 only FTBFS)
[13:14] <pitti> StevenK: *cough*
[13:14] <StevenK> Heh, sorry
[13:14] <StevenK> pitti: It became a transitional package in between Breezy and Dapper.
[13:14] <StevenK> Er, they did, rather
[13:14] <pitti> StevenK: ah, it should have been dropped long ago then
[13:15]  * doko watches more StevenK fallout and hides ;)
[13:15] <StevenK> doko: Hmph
[13:15] <StevenK> doko: Next time I see you I'm going to tickle you :-P
[13:15] <StevenK> pitti: Okay, Debian killed them, they can stay dead.
[13:16]  * pitti sobs on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/; what an awful amount of review work
[13:16] <StevenK> Yeah, I suppose I should do some NBS work
[13:16] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: *grumble*
[13:16] <pitti> StevenK: I removed some NBS I cross-checked
[13:16] <seb128> pitti: you should better not hammer on it that early in the cycle
[13:16] <pitti> StevenK: problem is that it has a lot of noise from needsbuild packages
[13:17] <StevenK> After I merge gutenprint and stop being seb128's bitch
[13:17] <seb128> StevenK: do you plan to do your abiword merge btw? ;-)
[13:17] <pitti> seb128: well, alpha 1 is in one week, and at least hardy_outdate.txt needs constant attention
[13:17] <seb128> pitti: NBS is not really revelant for alpha
[13:17] <pitti> seb128: right; but outdate is
[13:17] <seb128> indeed
[13:18] <pitti> I was just whining, not planning to spend my afternoon on it, don't worry
[13:18] <StevenK> seb128: Why do you care, it's universe? :-)
[13:18] <seb128> StevenK: it's not
[13:18] <StevenK> Oh.
[13:18] <StevenK> Silly me.
[13:18] <StevenK> seb128: Added to my mental list after gutenprint and gimp.
[13:18] <seb128> StevenK: thanks
[13:19] <StevenK> My mental list is like a steel trap, though.
[13:19] <StevenK> (Rusty and illegal in 6 states)
[13:19] <seb128> pitti: autogen builds fine with guile-1.8, I'll file a Debian wishlist to use guile-1.8-dev | guile-1.6-dev | libguile-dev
[13:19]  * pitti hugs seb128, thanks
[13:19] <seb128> you're welcome
[13:20]  * seb128 hugs pitti back
[13:20] <jpatrick> pitti: thanks for the backport
[13:20] <pitti> jpatrick: you're welcome; welcome in the backporter team!
[13:20] <seb128> I'll also look to graphviz and swig1.3
[13:20] <seb128> new backporters?
[13:21] <doko> new swig version?
[13:22] <seb128> doko: no, swig1.3 is one of the few packages using guile-1.6 and I'm looking if we could switch those to guile-1.8
[13:22] <seb128> I'm speaking about main there
[13:27] <seb128> doko: any opinion on the topic?
[13:28] <doko> seb128: no, guile-1.8 is still beta, isn't it?
[13:28] <seb128> doko: not sure, if that's the case we should switch gnome-games back to 1.6
[13:28] <ogra> sounds messy
[13:31] <doko> seb128: ahh, no, that was ruby1.8
[13:32] <StevenK> Oh, *TWITCH*
[13:32] <StevenK>   C  scripts/config.guess
[13:32] <StevenK>   C  scripts/config.sub
[13:32] <seb128> doko: ok
[13:39] <seb128> pitti: would a Build-Depends on guile-1.8-dev | guile-1.6-dev work? or does it need to be the other way?
[13:39] <pitti> seb128: no, that works
[13:39] <seb128> ok, will do that for now then, so it builds
[13:39] <pitti> cool, thanks
[13:40] <seb128> you're welcome
[13:48] <pitti> seb128: any idea why python-gobject-doc is not built any more? dropping -doc packages doesn't seem very obvious to me
[13:49] <seb128> pitti: it has been merged back to -dev to lower the delta with Debian
[13:49] <pitti> ah, great
[13:50] <seb128> pitti: I'll merge pygtk today
[13:50]  * pitti hugs pygtk
[13:50] <seb128> pitti: in case you are having a look at what needs fixing, it's on my list already
[13:50] <pitti> seb128: ah, great, thanks
[13:50] <seb128> no problem
[13:55] <pitti> yay, I'm through hardy_outdate.txt
[13:57] <so1> hi
[13:57] <so1> looks like gtk or something is broken ...
[13:58] <so1> get an error about setuid, and something that it's not supported to run gtk as root after logging into gnome
[13:58] <pitti> so1: that's a feature, not a but
[13:58] <pitti> so1: which application do you try to run?
[13:58] <so1> pitti: i can't even run an app
[13:59] <so1> i just log into gnome via gdm
[13:59] <ion_> As root?
[13:59] <so1> gdm works, but after i typed my password and pressed enter nothing happens, and i get that error
[13:59] <so1> no
[13:59] <pitti> no, it complains about suidness, not root
[13:59] <so1> my normal sudo account
[13:59] <pitti> so1: any third-party applications/drivers/etc.?
[13:59] <so1> no
[13:59]  * pitti is afraid of another story like the Samsung printer drivers which made OO.o suid root
[14:00] <seb128> where does it complain about setgid?
[14:00] <StevenK> Twitch
[14:00] <so1> bad thing is, i would try to do a aptitude update, dist-upgrade, but i don't get an internet connection anymore
[14:00] <pitti> likely because network-manager applet doesn't start
[14:01] <so1> "this session lastet less than 10 seconds blablabla
[14:01] <so1> and when i open ~/.xession-errors:
[14:01] <seb128> those errors are "normal"
[14:02] <seb128> that's due to some gdmflexiserver calls
[14:02] <seb128> not likely what creates your issue
[14:02] <seb128> you said that nothing happens
[14:02] <seb128> and then that the session exit
[14:02] <seb128> which one is true there?
[14:03] <seb128> does it hang or does it exit rather?
[14:03] <seb128> and what version of ubuntu are you using?
[14:04] <so1> hardy
[14:04] <so1> sorry, just tried to get the error message
[14:04] <so1> don't really know
[14:04] <so1> mouse doesn't move anymore
[14:04] <seb128> pitti: can you give a retry to the lpia libgnomekbd build?
[14:05] <pitti> seb128: done
[14:05] <seb128> thanks
[14:06] <so1> wth? i copied the error message to an usb stick and now it isn't there anymore
[14:09] <so1> http://ubuntuusers.de/paste/18626/
[14:09] <so1> here it is ...
[14:09] <so1> most important thing would be an internet connection, it is statically configured, no dhcp
[14:09] <so1> but even a ping to the router fails!
[14:09] <seb128> nothing useful there
[14:10] <so1> ok
[14:10] <seb128> does starting an another session than GNOME works correctly?
[14:11] <so1> "xterm could not be found to start a recovery session"
[14:12] <seb128> your install is in a weird state
[14:12] <seb128> is gnome-session event installed?
[14:12] <seb128> dpkg -l gnome-session
[14:12] <so1> even starting kde4 i get the same gtk setuid error
[14:12] <seb128> the warning is a gdm known issue and not breaking your login
[14:13] <so1> is that an "i" or an "l" behind dpkg?
[14:13] <seb128> L
[14:13] <so1> ah ok
[14:13] <seb128> a small one
[14:13]  * StevenK wonders where Till is hiding
[14:14] <so1> the output: thousands of "=", then at the end "the gnome 2 session manager"
[14:14] <seb128> ?
[14:14] <pitti> StevenK: better mail him, he isn't on IRC very often
[14:15] <seb128> so1: you have a column describing if the package is installed or not
[14:15] <so1> first the screens fills with [14:15] <so1> and after a few seconds the screen is cleared and at the end "the gnome 2 session manager"
[14:15] <so1> nothing more
[14:16] <seb128> what did you type there?
[14:16] <so1> dpkg -l gnome-session
[14:16] <seb128> you have a line starting with gnome-session then
[14:16] <pitti> this is such a lot of unspecific breakage that I'd advise a memory and file system check
[14:16] <seb128> right, something weird is going on there
[14:17] <seb128> looks like a local computer issue and not a distribution one
[14:17] <so1> mhhh ok
[14:17] <so1> the laptop worked!
[14:18] <so1> it broke after an dist-upgrade a few days ago ...
[14:18] <so1> how can i get into the internet from the commandline to update my system?
[14:18] <pitti> so1: what does 'apt-get -f install' say?
[14:19] <pitti> so1: try 'sudo ifup eth0'
[14:19] <so1> i thought configuration isn't needed, if i have it statically configured
[14:19] <pitti> but apt-get -f install works without net
[14:19] <so1> apt-get has no problems
[14:19] <pitti> (for the diagnosis anyway)
[14:20] <so1> "ifup: interface eth0 already configured"
[14:21] <pitti> so1: so it should be up?
[14:21] <so1> ping 192.168.1.1 -> destination host unreachable
[14:21] <pitti> route -n
[14:21] <so1> i even brought it down and did it again ... :-(
[14:21] <pitti> this should now be handled -> over there, but not in #devel any more
[14:24] <so1> http://ubuntuusers.de/paste/18627/
[14:24] <so1> sigh ...
[14:25] <pitti> that looks fine
[14:25] <so1> the router is 192.168.1.1
[14:25] <so1> and the ip of the laptop 192.168.1.20 ...
[14:25] <so1> i don't know what i did wrong :-(
[14:26] <pitti> so1: please pastebin 'dmesg' output
[14:26] <pitti> (or inspect it first for some obvious error messages)
[14:27] <theunixgeek> what's the EOF under Ubuntu GNU/Linux?
[14:28] <theunixgeek> found it - ^d
[14:28] <mdz> bizarre
[14:28] <pitti> yeah, that changed last week
[14:28] <so2> http://ubuntuusers.de/paste/18628/
[14:28] <StevenK> Hah
[14:29] <pitti> so2: nothing there; so: 1. close yes, 2. reboot world, 3. wake up from this bad dream
[14:29] <so2> :-(
[14:31] <so2> i just don't get it, why can't i even ping my router?! :-(
[14:32] <so2> i guess i'll get my ubuntu cds and reinstall :'-(
[14:32]  * so2 starts to cry
[15:04] <mvo> pitti: do you need a MIR report for cwidget? its just a split out from the old apittude codebase into its own lib
[15:04] <pitti> mvo: no, that's fine
[15:19]  * pitti bites into the table
[15:19] <pitti> so I wated 70 minutes just to find out about a totally counterintuitive Python misbehaviour
[15:19] <pitti> wasted, even
[15:19]  * ogra hands pitti some mustard
[15:20]  * Hobbsee removes the table
[15:22] <pitti> Python experts, can http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/default_args.py be justified somehow? or is this worth a bug report?
[15:22] <pitti> (I know why the implementation does that, but it shouldn't IMHO)
[15:24] <mvo> pitti: IIRC this is documentend
[15:24] <pitti> it works as intended with scalars, but with complex objects it doesn't instantiate a new one each time you call the function
[15:26] <mvo> pitti: http://www.network-theory.co.uk/docs/pytut/DefaultArgumentValues.html (under important warning)
[15:26] <pitti> ah, http://docs.python.org/ref/function.html mentions it
[15:26] <mvo> yeah, that too
[15:27] <mvo> just found it there too, I couldn't remember where I read it initially :)
[15:27] <pitti> "Default parameter values are evaluated when the function definition is executed. This means that the expression is evaluated once, when the function is defined, and that that same ``pre-computed'' value is used for each call."
[15:27] <pitti> that contradicts itself, though, but I see the point
[15:27] <Keybuk> pitti: right, you define a dictionary as the default argument
[15:28] <Keybuk> so it's the same dictionary for all instances of that function
[15:28] <Keybuk> same for objects, etc.
[15:28] <pitti> so I'll modify the code to use {} when it is None, that's safer
[15:28] <Keybuk> that's the usual idiom, yes
[15:28] <Keybuk> Python consistently behaves like that
[15:28] <Keybuk> so although it's surprising the first time you come across it
[15:29] <Keybuk> it doesn't surprise you later by behaving differently
[15:29] <Keybuk> (the same holds true for decorators, parent classes, etc.)
[15:30] <Keybuk> a justification for why it behaves like that:
[15:30] <Keybuk>   def foo():
[15:30] <Keybuk>     pass
[15:31] <Keybuk>   def bar(func=foo):
[15:31] <pitti> Keybuk: it just surprised me that it already instantiates formal parameters at function defintion time; that's quite counterintuitive
[15:31] <Keybuk>     func()
[15:31] <Keybuk>   def evil():
[15:31] <Keybuk>     pass
[15:31] <Keybuk>   foo = evil
[15:31] <Keybuk>   bar()
[15:32] <Keybuk> (will call foo not evil)
[15:39] <pitti> $ devhelp
[15:39] <pitti> devhelp: error while loading shared libraries: libgtkembedmoz.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[15:39] <pitti> *sniff*
[15:40] <pitti> file:///usr/share/doc/python2.5-doc/html/lib/module-xml.etree.ElementTree.html
[15:42] <pitti> whoops, sorry, wrong window
[16:12] <pitti> mvo: cwidget promoted, and I bumped the build score to actually get builds soon
[16:12] <so2> hi
[16:12] <so2> does someone know when network manager will be updated?
[16:12] <so2> 0.6.5 is a pita
[16:17] <so2> someone?
[16:20] <Ng> isn't 0.6.5 the most recent version?
[16:21] <pitti> I heard stories about 0.7
[16:22] <gaspa> pitti, but does usplash 0.5.8 works? (i'm not able to make it work, without any changes of mine)
[16:22] <pitti> gaspa: current hardy usplash works, yes
[16:23] <gaspa> mmm... i'm in gutsy, could be this the problem?
[16:23] <pitti> works there, too
[16:23]  * gaspa crying...
[16:23] <pitti> usplash only changed a tiny bit since gutsy
[16:23] <dholbach> so2: there was no new release since 20-Apr-2007 (0.6.5)
[16:24] <mvo> pitti: cool, thanks
[16:24] <so2> dholbach: fedore shipped a newer one, don't know if it ws officially released
[16:25] <so2> this thing is one big mess here, segfaults, forgets configuration, hangs when i try to change something ...
[16:25] <so2> and it seems the configuartion was so cleverly stuffed away so that i can't find it
[16:26] <so2> i just wonder where .network-manager is ...
[16:26] <so2> to do a rm -rf
[16:26] <pitti> so2: do you use the version from gutsy-updates?
[16:27] <so2> i use the version shipped from cd
[16:27] <so2> because i can't get into the internet since a week
[16:27] <pitti> so2: you should really upgrade
[16:27] <so2> reinstall didn't help
[16:27] <pitti> gutsy-updates has a ton of fixes
[16:28] <so2> nice to hear, but i can't get an internet connection
[16:28] <pitti> so2: I thought that only happened a few days ago?
[16:28] <pitti> so2: (I take it you are 'so1' from some hours ago?)
[16:28] <so2> yes
[16:29] <dholbach> anyway, best to try to get 0.6.5-0ubuntu16.7.10.0 installed on the machine
[16:29] <so2> i didn't count the first few days because i thought it would have something to do with hardy
[16:29] <so2> but i reinstalled
[16:29] <so2> and it is f***ed up as always
[16:29] <so2> with a fresh user it works, but with my normal user it doesn't
[16:29] <so2> i just wonder where network manager stores its configuration
[16:29] <pitti> huh? you can ping your router with a fresh user, but not with an existing one?
[16:30] <so2> (or network-admin)
[16:30] <so2> yes
[16:30] <so2> exactly
[16:30] <pitti> so2: network-admin uses /etc/network/interfaces
[16:30] <so2> understand why i'm quity angry? :-P
[16:30] <pitti> but that's absolutely independent from users
[16:30] <so2> obviously not ...
[16:31] <so2> i had a new user, verything worked, wired, wireless, few seconds, everything ok
[16:31] <dholbach> might be gnome-keyring-manager keys
[16:31] <so2> old user, nothing works, dhcp: no, static: no
[16:31] <dholbach> other configuration in .gconf
[16:31] <so2> ok
[16:31] <so2> where in gconf?
[16:31] <so2> i already looked there but didn't find anything
[16:32] <dholbach> I don't know, I would have to search too... ok
[16:32] <dholbach> best to file a bug
[16:35] <pitti> so2: is your old user in 'admin'?
[16:35] <pitti> (group)
[16:35] <so2> yes
[16:36] <so2> i reinstalled it+
[16:36] <so2> tried it with the user from the new installed system -> worked
[16:36] <so2> mounted my home-partition -> old user -> did not work!
[16:37] <dholbach> you could try strace-ing NetworkManager and nm-applet
[16:39] <so2> ok
[16:39] <so2> nm just segfaulted :-)
[16:39] <dholbach> file a bug report
[16:39] <so2> i'd just say: pull the latest version ...
[16:40] <so2> this one is just unbelievable
[16:40] <so2> it crashes more often than not
[16:40] <dholbach> please file bug reports on it
[16:40] <dholbach> we can't change what's in gutsy and the people who maintain network-manager are not around at the moment
[16:41] <pitti> carlos: FYI, -proposed packages are uploading
[16:41] <Hobbsee> hum, that reminds me.  why has my network manager not segfaulted at all yet?
[16:41] <dholbach> so it's no point re-iterating it in here, bug reports are really the best way to go about it
[16:41] <Ng> Hobbsee: mine's stopped segfaulting since I installed the one in -proposed \o/
[16:41] <pitti> here too
[16:42] <pitti> now it just misbehaves after suspend-to-ram
[16:42] <Hobbsee> Ng: mine didn't seem to segfault even before that
[16:42] <pitti> (or, rather, it doesn't behave at all; it just sits around until I restart it)
[16:42] <Ng> Hobbsee: mine only did on resume
[16:42] <Hobbsee> ahhh, well, i've been running kde, so i've only started even thinking about resume.
[16:42] <Hobbsee> (recently)
[16:43] <LaserRock> Hobbsee: you didn't resume with kde?
[16:44] <Hobbsee> LaserRock: it bunged up each time, so, no.  just took me back to kdm.
[16:44] <so2> ok, i'll reboot
[16:44] <so2> brb
[16:44] <pitti> LaserRock: KDE devs never sleep
[16:44] <Hobbsee> yeah, well.  about that
[16:44]  * Hobbsee really hopes she's not supposed to be at work in <5 hours.
[16:44] <pitti> Hobbsee: there's a night supposed to be in between now and then, right?
[16:45] <Hobbsee> pitti: yeah, something like that.
[16:45] <pitti> Hobbsee: I think your suspend/resume is broken, too
[16:45] <Hobbsee> pitti: on kde?  yeah
[16:45] <Hobbsee> oh, mine personally
[16:45] <Hobbsee> hah.  we knew that :)
[16:45] <pitti> your's
[16:45]  * Hobbsee recently told the night manager what time she usually gets to sleep.  he was....uh...somewhat surprised.
[16:46] <zul> i think most people are Hobbsee  :)
[16:46] <Hobbsee> zul: most people don't do the conversion back into syd time, so don't know how bad it actually is.
[16:46] <Hobbsee> like, most people dont realise that it's almsot 4am - just that i'ts kinda late.
[16:47] <geser> Hobbsee: that's because you stay up late, so it can't be that late in Sydney if you're still here :)
[16:48] <dholbach> geser: 03:48?
[16:49] <Hobbsee> heh
[16:49] <geser> dholbach: I don't usually check the time in Sydney but only check if Hobbsee is here or not
[16:49] <Hobbsee> heh
[16:56] <mathiaz> soren: I've modified submittodebian to call reportbug with '-T patch' to the patch tag to the bug report.
[16:56] <soren> mathiaz: I thought the bts did that automagically, but perhaps not. Feel free to upload a new version.
[16:56] <mathiaz> soren: '-T patch' to add a patch tag to the bug report.
[16:57] <mathiaz> soren: Just wondering if this is a good practive when forwarding patches to debian.
[16:57] <mathiaz> soren: As we're already using ubuntu-patch in the user tags.
[16:58] <soren> mathiaz: I'm not entirely sure.
[17:01] <pitti> I grab infinity's "lilo" change; complain now or never
[17:02] <soren> Er... which change is that?
[17:03] <pitti> erm, s/change/merge/
[17:03] <pitti> soren: blame it to Friday evening
[17:03] <pitti> (and wrestling with Soyuz for 6 hours)
[17:04] <soren> Oh, ok.
[17:04] <mathiaz> pitti: is it a good practice to add "Tags: patch" when forwarding patches to debian bts ?
[17:04] <seb128> mathiaz: sure
[17:04] <pitti> mathiaz: yes, that, and some more
[17:04] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debian/Usertagging
[17:04] <mathiaz> seb128, pitti: great ! thanks.
[17:04] <pitti> so that we can track them
[17:04] <seb128> mathiaz: that's the purpose of the tag, indicating when there is patch attached
[17:05] <mathiaz> seb128: I've just added it to submittodebian.
[17:06] <seb128> cool
[17:07]  * soren boggles at Debian's kvm packages
[17:07]  * pitti boggles at how much cruft lilo accumulated
[17:08] <pitti> several dpatch.orig and dpatch.rej files, patches of dpatches, other rej files, duplicated changelog entries...
[17:08] <soren> kvm in Debian has got about 1 MB of blobs in it. Most recent changelog entry says "don't bother building a +dfsg orig.tar.gz. It's clean now". Er... no?
[17:10]  * soren calls it a day
[17:12] <gaspa> pitti: I did it !
[17:12] <gaspa> how can I send you the patch? is fine bazar?
[17:13] <pitti> gaspa: yes, that's fine; just commit it to your branch and make a note in the bug report
[17:13] <pitti> I'll read the bug mail
[17:13] <gaspa> ok. ;)
[17:14] <gaspa> pitti: it just made some mess, while cleaning the code...
[17:27] <so1> ok
[17:27] <so1> back!
[17:28] <so1> deleting /root/.gnome2/netwrok-admin* helped
[17:28] <so1> connected immediately ...
[17:28] <so1> now i'm just downloading the 300 mb of updates
[17:28] <so1> takes ages
[17:29] <so1> germany is really a development country if you compare internet connection speeds ...
[17:30] <so1> btw, is there one package which removes the _whole_ mono crap?
[17:30] <so1> removing libmono0 doesn't seem to uninstall everything
[17:31] <Keybuk> pitti: you can change the f-spot import folder
[17:32] <Keybuk> it's in Preferences
[17:32] <carlos> pitti: cool, thanks
[17:36] <slangasek> sbalneav: ping
[17:55] <slangasek> lamont: hmm, ok; db4.5 ftbfs on hppa because java-gcj-compat-dev isn't up to date there, is this in progress? (seems to have no problems in Debian unstable...)
[17:56] <pitti> Keybuk: ah, great
[18:49] <geser> pitti: please give-back blktrace, camera.app, timemon.app, zipper.app, terminal.app, textedit.app. Thanks.
[18:51] <geser> pitti: should I ask for retries for builds which failed because the build-depends weren't build yet or is a massive give-back planned soon?
[18:54] <rexbron> mr_pouit: Did you get my earlier messages?
[18:57] <mr_pouit> rexbron: yes: I don't know if this has been reported upstream (let's ask vorlon), and I hadn't gave a look at the patch~clean issue yet.
[18:58] <rexbron> mr_pouit: What channel/server would that be?
[18:58] <mr_pouit> s/hadn't gave/haven't given/
[18:59] <slangasek> mr_pouit: ask me about what?
[19:00] <slangasek> murrine, I gather
[19:02] <mr_pouit> slangasek: yes, has the patch been forwarded upstream?
[19:03] <pitti> geser: no, it's not planned, I don't know how to do that wholesale
[19:04] <pitti> geser: given back
[19:04] <_MMA_> mr_pouit: You can often catch Cimi (Murrine author) in #ubuntu-artwork. (not ATM though) He's usually on every day.
[19:05] <pochu> pitti, geser: let's hope the soyuz crew fixes bug 160439 soon :)
[19:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160439 in soyuz "Some builds fail when they should depwait" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160439
[19:05] <pitti> yeah
[19:05] <_MMA_> mr_pouit: Actually he's on Freenode now just not in Ubuntu channels.
[19:06] <mr_pouit> _MMA_: ah ok, good to know, thanks :)
[19:07] <_MMA_> np
[19:08] <geser> pitti: so it's ok when I give you a list of packages which should build now?
[19:09] <slangasek> mr_pouit: not by me, at least
[19:12] <mr_pouit> slangasek: ok, I'll check with the upstream author, th//##ModelId=4746BF630236
[19:12] <mr_pouit> typedef vector<Extremite*> vExtremite;
[19:12] <mr_pouit> arg ^^"
[19:12] <mr_pouit> //##ModelId=4746BF630255
[19:12] <mr_pouit> typedef vector<Chemin*> vChemin;
[19:13] <mr_pouit> anks
[19:13]  * mr_pouit hates its touchpad
[19:13] <mr_pouit> s/its/his/
[19:13] <slangasek> mr_pouit: thanks for running with it :)
[19:16] <rexbron> mr_pouit: I always knew you were a turing machine :P
[19:17] <mr_pouit> ^^
[19:23] <nxvl_work> hi
[19:23] <nxvl_work> i need a give back for advi, can someone do it?
[19:26] <tjaalton> does anyone know why https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHardwareDetection is missing?
[19:27] <LaserJock> somebody must have eaten it for breakfast
[19:28] <tjaalton> oh
[19:28] <nxvl_work> LaserJock: heh
[19:28] <tjaalton> wrong url
[19:28] <tjaalton> it was moved :)
[19:30] <geser> nxvl_work: I guess all buildd-admins are already in the weekend
[19:31] <geser> oh, nice, Hobbsee can now also do give-backs
[19:44] <lamont> slangasek: we still have yet to bootstrap a working hppa/java into gutsy.,  er hardy
[19:46] <slangasek> lamont: on the agenda, though?
[19:46] <slangasek> lamont: or should I attend to fixing db4.5 to ignore java on hppa again?
[19:46] <lamont> yeah.  sadly, I'm not a toolchain guy
[19:47] <lamont> dropping java in ubuntu may be the quicker route
[19:50] <Mez> argh, how do I creaate proper linda overrides?
[23:10] <poningru> anyone around?
[23:10] <poningru> looks like alpha1 will be shipping in a week
[23:11] <poningru> is there plans for release notes?
[23:16] <slangasek> poningru: we'll want some web page à la http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/tribe1, but I wouldn't say there are "plans" per se right now
[23:17] <slangasek> other than the plan that it should be done :)
[23:20] <poningru> right
[23:20] <poningru> but I was wondering what the nomer was going to be
[23:21] <poningru> flight has already been used
[23:21] <slangasek> from here on, they're just being called "alpha"
[23:21] <poningru> oh :(
[23:21] <Amaranth> Which doesn't make sense to me
[23:22] <Amaranth> Because we've had them after beta/rc releases
[23:23] <poningru> right what he said
[23:23]  * poningru wonders where he can appeal that decision
[23:25] <Fujitsu> /wi/win 5
[23:25] <Fujitsu> Bah.
[23:26] <poningru> hedge / sedge / seige
[23:26] <poningru> so can I call it seige1 in the wiki?
[23:32] <poningru> slangasek^^
[23:44] <slangasek> poningru: uh, if you call it a "seige" in the wiki that's just going to be confusing to others because we're not releasing seige1, we're releasing alpha1
[23:54] <poningru> I know but only for the wiki, the release notes will be on the website
[23:54] <poningru> whatever
[23:54] <poningru> alpha1 it is