[01:28] <Burgundavia> slangasek: just to catch up on a previous conversations, we are going with boring Alpha designations for Hardy?
[01:28] <slangasek> Burgundavia: correct
[01:28] <Burgundavia> how very boringly corporate
[01:29] <slangasek> decided before I was involved, I'm just doin' what I'm told
[01:29] <Burgundavia> I liked the names, thought they added character, but they were confusing
[01:30] <slangasek> they also guaranteed url uniqueness on the website, but oh well :)
[01:30] <Burgundavia> yes, they did
[01:30] <jcastro> Ubuntu Alpha Vorlon 1 released!
[01:30] <slangasek> ...
[01:30] <Burgundavia> any idea who made the decision? did it come from sabdfl himself?
[01:30] <jcastro> I wish there would have been a $something Crow so there could have been Murder 1, 2, etc.
[01:30] <Burgundavia> given the "boringly corporate" theme for Hardy, I wouldn't be shocked
[01:31] <slangasek> Burgundavia: dunno, was relayed to me by pitti and cjwatson_
[01:31] <Burgundavia> ok
[01:31] <Fujitsu> jcastro: Hahah.
[01:31] <Burgundavia> jcastro: launch a deriv and have a crazy crow release
[01:32] <Hobbsee> Burgundavia: mdz
[01:32] <slangasek> I don't have the impression that LTSness was a significant consideration, since alphas are rather non-user-oriented anyway
[01:32] <Burgundavia> Hobbsee: hmm, ahh
[01:33] <Hobbsee> jcastro: *grin*
[01:33] <Burgundavia> slangasek: but they are tech press oriented, non Linux tech press
[01:34] <slangasek> I don't know I'd say they're "oriented" toward the tech press, though the tech press certainly covers them and this isn't a bad thing :)
[01:35] <Burgundavia> right, that is what I meant
[01:58] <GoldenPony> nxvl: do you still need it?
[01:59]  * Fujitsu didn't know that ponies were good at eating LongPointySticks.
[02:00]  * GoldenPony is duplicating LongPointyStick
[02:00]  * GoldenPony works well, for flattening people
[02:00] <Fujitsu> Except when it gets shot, like a couple of days back.
[02:00]  * GoldenPony cannot be shot.
[02:01]  * persia wonders if GoldenGlue would be useful
[03:45] <Hobbsee> oy, network manager - stop dying!
[03:46] <Hobbsee> same to my wifi!
[03:47] <somerville32> Network manager says I have no network devices
[03:48] <somerville32> I'd think my computer was pretty awesome to be able to use the internet without one if only I didn't know better
[03:53] <lamont> Hobbsee: network managler hasn't run on my laptop in a small eterinity
[03:53] <lamont> eternity, even
[03:53] <lamont> admittedly, that's mostly because I purged it.
[03:53] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:53] <DoYouKnow> hi
[03:54] <Hobbsee> well, that tends to have an effect
[03:54] <lamont> Hobbsee: it makes my network stay up better. :-)
[03:54] <Hobbsee> what's weird is that this isnt the mangler - it's actually the fact tha tmy card randomly stops flashing / being active at all
[03:58] <pwnguin> so far i havent found anything terrible with my intel card and network manager
[03:58] <Hobbsee> what's more weird is that this is only happening today
[03:59] <pwnguin> Hobbsee: maybe you're just being hax'd
[03:59] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: maybe it's my machine giving me hell for not running gutsy
[03:59] <pwnguin> psh
[03:59]  * Hobbsee glares at mpt_
[04:00] <pwnguin> hardy's fine if you know where the landmines are ;)
[04:00] <pwnguin> thy name is policyKit
[04:00]  * Hobbsee wonders if this is the real mpt.
[04:00]  * persia recommends chroots
[04:00] <pwnguin> chroots dont test nvidia
[04:00]  * somerville32 enjoys multiple machines.
[04:00] <persia> pwnguin: Exactly :)
[04:01] <pwnguin> or the rest of my laptop hardware
[04:01]  * Hobbsee discovered an edgy install on her other machine.
[04:04] <pwnguin> think i just found a bug in rhythmbox though
[04:28]  * Hobbsee ponders whether -updates can be abused, for kde4 related stuff.
[04:33] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: wouldn't -backports be the place for that?
[04:34] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: normally, yes.  but the current version is useless for building kde4 apps - which is it's only use, iirc
[04:35] <persia> Hobbsee: The issue is verification: you'd need to show a regression (which requires tricky wording), and demonstrate no impact (which likely means rebuilding all the rdepends and testing them agressively, which would take weeks, if not months).
[04:35] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: but what's the functional difference between -backports and -updates?
[04:35] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: backprots is for random crack, to use selectively
[04:36] <Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~% rbuildepend libqca2-dev | wc -l                 3:35PM
[04:36] <Hobbsee> 12
[04:36] <persia> Err.  Not "random crack", but stuff from the new dev release that compiles on the old release
[04:36] <Hobbsee> most of which is already kde4 stuff, or qca2 stuff.
[04:36] <Hobbsee> oh, and psi
[04:36] <persia> heh
[04:36]  * Hobbsee thought psi had to build with theold version
[04:37] <Hobbsee> that can still go back to libqca-dev.  well, that's what it's shlibdeps have come up with.
[04:38] <Hobbsee> weird.
[04:38] <Hobbsee> persia: mmm.
[04:39]  * Hobbsee just hopes hardy gets sorted soon
[04:39] <persia> Hobbsee: You could fix all the NBS stuff, and it'd be in better shape :)
[04:40] <Hobbsee> persia: wouldnt help the intel breakage and such :)
[04:40] <Hobbsee> besides, its' hard to do such a thing, when your machine hardlocks twice in 25 mins.
[04:40] <persia> Hobbsee: Ah: video drivers.  No, not as such.  I'd wait for the new kernel
[04:40] <Hobbsee> just hoping it comes soon :)
[04:40] <Hobbsee> got caught only upgrading parts of hardy, causing more random freezes
[04:43]  * persia suspects they weren't random, and suggests aptitude's advanced dependencies resolution algorithm to detect breakage before installation.
[04:44] <Hobbsee> well, it was update-manager - then other bits would blow up
[04:44] <Hobbsee> so then i said "screw it, i'll just upgrade the rest, and hope it works better than it did"
[04:44] <Hobbsee> which it does.  in some ways.
[04:44] <Hobbsee> it works fine, until it crashes.
[04:44] <Hobbsee> rather than working slow and crap, until it crashes :)
[04:45] <Hobbsee> although the crashes are increasing
[04:45] <persia> Hobbsee: update-manager does a really smart dist-upgrade, but it's less smart about incremental daily uploads: it tends to grab the new stuff, and hope there aren't any library collisions.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> yeah, true
[04:45] <persia> Although, if your performance is that bad, I should really upgrade: my system will probably stop crashing :)
[04:45] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:45] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu's got it as well
[04:46] <Hobbsee> anyway... /me --> vote
[04:46]  * persia dist-upgrades on the basis of this information
[05:06] <Hobbsee> right.  have voted.
[05:06]  * mdomsch is going to like dpkg triggers
[05:06] <Hobbsee> mdomsch!
[05:07] <mdomsch> good evening Hobbsee
[05:07] <Hobbsee> heya mdomsch
[05:07] <Hobbsee> mdomsch: how do you like ppa?
[05:07] <mdomsch>  Hobbsee just got it activated for dell-team, haven't uploaded anything yet
[05:08] <Hobbsee> get to it :P
[05:08] <mdomsch> been too busy fixing my packages and playing wii with my kids
[05:08] <mdomsch> :-)
[05:08] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:12] <mdomsch> uploading firmware-tools now
[05:12] <Hobbsee> hrm.  what's the factoid for customising the ubuntu cds....
[05:14] <mdomsch> and firmware-addon-dell
[05:22] <mdomsch> Hobbsee, https://launchpad.net/~dell-team/+archive has them now
[05:23] <Hobbsee> mdomsch: \o/
[05:23] <Hobbsee> mdomsch: i thought you were going for all releases
[05:23] <Hobbsee> not just hardy
[05:23] <mdomsch> Hobbsee, I need to change and re-upload for gutsy
[05:24] <mdomsch> and because I need triggers, I can't release for feisty :-(
[05:24] <Hobbsee> mdomsch: you know that you cant use the same version number for gutsy and hardy?
[05:24] <mdomsch> eww
[05:25] <mdomsch> fwiw, fedora uses a "dist tag" appended to the -revision part of the version field
[05:25] <Hobbsee> (due to archive structure, where all the binaries get put in pool/)
[05:25] <mdomsch> which solves this cleanly
[05:25] <persia> Well, actually the same number can be used for both, but it's not ideal for new uploads.
[05:25] <Hobbsee> mdomsch: you can do the same, or similar.  use 1.4.9-0ubuntu2~<targetrelease>1
[05:25] <mdomsch> worksforme
[05:25] <Hobbsee> persia: not in ppa, surely.
[05:26] <Hobbsee> persia: http://ppa.launchpad.net/dell-team/ubuntu/pool/main/f/ doesn't do releases
[05:26] <persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Context.  Same binary == same version, but dist copies only happen to the main archive.
[05:26]  * persia shuts up again
[05:26] <mdomsch> Hobbsee, must be different, not gutsy < hardy ?
[05:26] <Hobbsee> mdomsch: it so happens that gutsy < hardy anyway, but yes, they must be different.  and one must be above the other, if you want to stop warnings about "help, you're downgrading"
[05:27] <Hobbsee> persia: that being said...we cant upload teh same version to gutsy and hardy, can we?
[05:28] <Hobbsee> in the main archive
[05:28] <Hobbsee> mdomsch: thanks, that's part of what i needed to stick in the all new and shiny ppa FAQ
[05:28] <persia> Hobbsee: Err.  From a dpkg perspective it works fine, as long as it's the same binary.  The trick is that the Packages,gz files need to have the right contents, which depends on the archive system being used.
[05:29] <Hobbsee> persia: true.  it's an archive limitation, not a dpkg one
[05:29] <persia> Hobbsee: I'm not sure "limitation" is the right word, but yes.
[05:29] <Hobbsee> well, it's on purpose.  but yes :)
[05:30] <persia> Note that same binary means same compilation: always copy from older to newer, rather than the other way, or things are likely to break, as forward compatibility is a difficult problem.
[05:33] <Hobbsee> persia: this is true
[05:49] <mdomsch> persia, in my case, the package is a python package, so compilation happens at install time
[05:50] <mdomsch> but if it were C I would agree
[05:51] <persia> mdomsch: Even python packages have a build process.  If python-central | python-support changed significantly, you'd prefer to build against the old one, to ensure that the install-time compilation worked for both releases.
[05:51] <persia> Although I admit that "compilation" isn't the right word to use for the python package build process.
[05:53] <Hobbsee> persia: he left, and it also contains debian/ in the source stuff
[05:53] <persia> Hobbsee: All true.  I type too slowly :)
[06:17] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Did I see a mention of a non-slow -intel before?
[06:18] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah.  the latest non-particularly-slow intel in the archives isnt too slow
[06:18] <Hobbsee> like, it's not noticibly laggy
[06:18] <Hobbsee> crashes too often, though
[06:18] <Hobbsee> it's less laggy than when it first came out, though
[06:18] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Oh, good. I might upgrade, then.
[06:18] <Fujitsu> Scrolling is just painful.
[06:19] <warp10> Hi all!
[06:19] <Hobbsee> oh yeah, scrolling still sucks
[06:19] <Hobbsee> but the rest of it is fine
[06:19] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[07:31] <mpt__> Hobbsee, what did I do?
[07:31] <Hobbsee> mpt: suspect IP address
[07:32] <Hobbsee> sorry, hostname
[07:32] <Hobbsee> mpt: thought people might have turned from impersonating mark to impersonating you.
[07:33] <mpt> I'm not that popular, surely
[07:34] <Hobbsee> who knows...
[07:34] <StevenK> mpt: AboutThisComputer got Approved, but it has the all of the hardware bits back again
[07:34] <mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AboutThisComputer
[07:34] <mpt> whoops
[07:35]  * mpt forgot to press Ctrl+Space first
[07:37] <mpt> StevenK, there's no wiki page by that name, and <https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu?searchtext=about> returns zero results
[07:39] <StevenK> Hum. Where did it go?
[07:39] <poningru> mpt: its probably asa ;)
[07:39]  * persia finds https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/about-this-computer
[07:39] <Hobbsee> where did what go?
[07:40] <StevenK> Ah, sneaky
[07:40] <StevenK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/AboutThisComputer
[07:41] <mpt> thanks
[07:41] <mpt> hum, no mockup?
[07:42] <mpt> "The icon of the window will be a visually attractive computer icon"
[07:42] <StevenK> The mockup is in text only.
[07:42] <mpt> That's going to match what the computer actually looks like about 1% of the time
[07:42] <Rabbitbunny> is there some sort of 'noob guide' for updating the repository? it only has gtkpod 99.2 and liggpod 0.3.2 when 99.10 and 0.6 are current. if I have to make from source I might as well do it for everybody.
[07:42] <StevenK>   libgpod |    0.6.0-2 |         hardy | source
[07:43] <Rabbitbunny> for dapper
[07:43] <mpt> At least it will be an improvement
[07:43] <StevenK> We aren't going to update those for Dapper.
[07:43] <persia> Rabbitbunny: You could request a backport, but Dapper is considered pretty stable: it's better to upgrade to a newer release.
[07:44] <Rabbitbunny> request a backport? i have source..
[07:44] <persia> StevenK: Can all of AboutSystem, AboutUbuntu, and AboutUbuntuRevisited go away now?
[07:44] <Rabbitbunny> StevenK: What do you mean 'we'?
[07:44] <persia> !backports
[07:44] <ubotu> If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
[07:45] <StevenK> persia: AboutSystem is unrelated. AboutUbuntu and AboutUbuntuRevisited are refered to by AboutThisComputer
[07:46] <StevenK> Rabbitbunny: We meaning Ubuntu developers
[07:46] <persia> StevenK: AboutSystem looks earlier than AboutUbuntu, and same topic.  I'll deprecate that, but leave the rest.  Thanks.
[10:37] <poptones> hello, could i get some assistance regarding a memory leak in nautilus?
[10:38] <Hobbsee> poptones: better to do so on irc.gnome.org, i expect
[10:38] <Hobbsee> besides, its' a weekend.
[10:45] <poptones> thx
[12:54] <Riddell> ~/win 13
[12:54] <Riddell> hmm
[12:55] <Hobbsee> fail :)
[13:00] <Riddell> ah, Hobbsee, could you give back kdebluetooth and kdesdk
[13:00] <Hobbsee> Riddell: where?
[13:00] <Riddell> hardy
[13:09] <Hobbsee> Riddell: given back
[14:31] <\sh> moins
[15:17] <lamont> slangasek: http://conflictchecker.ubuntu.com/possible-conflicts/ lacks hardy...
[18:14] <sarahl> it would appear that the ubuntu log_sql package hasn't been updated in a while.
[18:17] <persia> sarahl: Which package?  I don't even see one by that name.
[18:49] <lamont> sarahl: package names don't have underscores in them...   what package do you mean when you say 'log_sql'?
[19:32] <\sh> lamont, i think sarahl means libapache2-mod-log-sql-mysql
[20:58] <tuna> is ther anyone here responsible for http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/custom/ ?
[21:19] <\sh> tuna, at this time? 21:00 UTC? not likely
[21:37] <slangasek> lamont: hmm, alright. who runs conflictchecker.ubuntu.com? :)
[21:41] <lamont> slangasek: nfc.  elmo should know??
[21:41] <lamont> or any release manager... :-)
[21:44] <lamont> slangasek: dunno... '
[21:44] <lamont> 'twas in your announcement. :-)
[22:14] <slangasek> lamont: only indirectly :)
[22:14] <slangasek> lifeless: was the conflict checker something you maintained?
[22:54] <\sh> COMPLAIN: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/t/tix8.1/ is totally empty but it's needed for python2.2 in dapper, please readd those missing packages, kthxhappysunday ,)
[22:57] <\sh> I wonder what happend to tix8.1 that it totally disappeared ... hopefully "you know who" was not the one who cursed it
[22:57] <slangasek> \sh: needed how?
[22:58] <slangasek> python2.2 itself doesn't appear to depend on it
[22:58] <\sh> slangasek, tix8.1-dev is a build-dep for python2.2 which needs a sec fix now...
[22:58] <slangasek> ah
[22:58] <\sh> well then some other build-dep of py2.2
[23:00] <\sh> slangasek, Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 3), autoconf2.13, libreadline5-dev, libncurses5-dev (>= 4.2-3.1), tk8.4-dev, libdb4.3-dev, zlib1g-dev (>= 1:1.1.3), libexpat1-dev, libgmp3-dev(>= 4.1.4-8), libgdbm-dev, blt-dev (>= 2.4z), tix8.1-dev (>= 8.1.3.93), libssl-dev
[23:00] <slangasek> well, drescher only has the warty/hoary/breezy versions available, which were in main; I imagine tix8.1 would need to be reuploaded to dapper?
[23:01] <\sh> slangasek, looks like...question is what happened?
[23:02] <slangasek> \sh: it was probably removed prior to dapper release and no one noticed, since python2.2 wasn't touched at all between breezy and dapper and is in universe?
[23:02] <\sh> slangasek, dunno..hopefully it was in universe...I'll have to setup a dapper chroot to check the reverse dependencies
[23:03] <slangasek> hmm?
[23:03] <slangasek> I'm saying that python2.2 is in universe
[23:03] <\sh> slangasek, oh...sure..pythons2.2. was universe
[23:03] <slangasek> which by extension implies that tix8.1 was in universe, yes, or else it would've been caught by germinate
[23:04] <\sh> hopefully
[23:04] <slangasek> er, n/m
[23:04] <slangasek> I'm thinking backwards
[23:07] <\sh> well, we should think about a complete rebuild of the archives, at least a couple of weeks before release
[23:07] <\sh> when I think about the bash <-> dash change it's really a mess to find out, that when you need to fix some vulnerabilities , you have to fix some crappy bashisms too
[23:12] <lamont> \sh: we do rebuild the archive (well, main at least), a couple weeks before release.
[23:12] <lamont> we just don't replace the debs, since that would be, um, bad
[23:13] <\sh> lamont, hmm...na...I just had a problem with perl last week..I attached a patch to fix a cve...and suddenly, I ran into this Makedepends.sh problem...which was fixed in gutsy but not in feisty, but feisty had the bash dash change so it never rebuild after this change
[23:13]  * Fujitsu notes we're trying to collect resources for universe rebuilds.
[23:13] <lamont> \sh: see http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/byDate/all.html
[23:14] <lamont> Fujitsu: we could possibly do a rebuild of gutsy/universe now that gutsy is released...
[23:14]  * lamont adds it to his ubuntu-datacenter wishlist
[23:15] <Fujitsu> lamont: So we have resources to do rebuilds of old releases?
[23:15] <\sh> lamont, man, those infos should be at a central place, where everyone can see it directly ,-)
[23:15] <lamont> \sh: that was the best we could do for the gutsy-autotest rebuild
[23:15] <lamont> which only did main
[23:16] <lamont> Fujitsu: the machines that get used to do the autotest (re)builds are actually the security/livecd/etc machines... and there's only one per architecture... hence they don't like to get lots of strain
[23:16] <lamont> and the builds are done outside of launchpad
[23:16] <Fujitsu> lamont: Ah, so it is only that one per arch...
[23:16] <Fujitsu> I thought there might be some that weren't registered in Soyuz.
[23:16] <\sh> Fujitsu, if we get a sponsor for around 2x2500 euros...we could get 14TB of raid6 diskspace with 2x (2x amd64 dualcore + 2x16GB ram)
[23:16] <lamont> Fujitsu: soyuz knows all
[23:16] <Fujitsu> Do we know when Soyuz is getting the rebuild feature? It has been RSN for a while now. Like, a couple of years.
[23:17] <lamont> Fujitsu: I think it's further down the list than the current cut-line... dunno when it might clear that line
[23:17] <lamont> the biggest issue for LP is that it needs to not keep the new debs
[23:17] <Fujitsu> I guess that we can't expect too much progress from two whole developers.
[23:18] <lamont> and that's kinda contrary to what the librarian thinks it should do
[23:18]  * \sh grabs a beer
[23:18] <Fujitsu> lamont: I guess it would be hard to model the correct behaviour.
[23:19] <lamont> Fujitsu: the other challenge for autotest is that it requires an import of the archive into DAK, which isn't exactly the fastest operation in the world.
[23:19] <Fujitsu> lamont: And that hits various DAK constraints that Soyuz doesn't enforce, right?
[23:19] <lamont> depends on what you mean by constraints
[23:19] <Fujitsu> Sanity checks and the like.
[23:20] <lamont> those pass, actually
[23:20] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[23:21] <lamont> \sh: only the red files are failures...
[23:21] <lamont> and I believe I filed bugs against all of the failures
[23:22] <lamont> some of the "successes" have implicit pointer conversions in them --> failure
[23:22]  * lamont makes a note to put together the implicit-conversion patch for launchpad's buildds
[23:22] <\sh> lamont, well, it was just one problem i ran into...and the problem was fixed in gutsy...but I guess, the change inside the chroots from bash to dash came after release of feisty these days
[23:23] <lamont> could be.  OTOH, feisty-security should be building with the same chroot that feisty release did...
[23:23]  * Fujitsu likes the large amount of documentation on how everything is set up.
[23:23] <\sh> lamont, can be...but pbuilder at home builds with feisty chroot whats provided from the archives :)
[23:24] <\sh> lamont, but you agree with me, that a missing package which is needed by another package to build is a real problem and needs to be fixed and should be avoided all the time, it doesn't matter if it's main or universe
[23:30] <lamont> Fujitsu: was that maybe sarcasm?
[23:30] <Fujitsu> lamont: Unless you can point me to some.
[23:30] <lifeless> slangasek: as wiki.ubuntu.com says; mvo or I are contacts for the conflict checker
[23:31] <lifeless> slangasek: I wrote it
[23:31] <lifeless> slangasek: and have handed it over to mvo
[23:32] <lamont> Fujitsu: yeah... well, it was all temporary when I was setting up the buildds originally, and so that part never got documented so much.
[23:32] <lamont> and yeah, it'd be nice to have it better documented.
[23:32] <Fujitsu> lamont: I meant about everything, including the Soyuz bits, but that's a good point.
[23:33]  * lamont can't claim any responsibility for  the Soyuz bits being documentation-light
[23:34]  * Fujitsu holds lamont responsible anyway.
[23:34] <LaserJock> heh
[23:35] <lamont> Fujitsu: I do admit to being involved in the design
[23:35] <Fujitsu> There we go!
[23:35]  * Fujitsu burns.
[23:38]  * lamont completes level 3430 of kobo deluxe.
[23:38] <Fujitsu> That's a few levels.
[23:38] <lamont> somehow, I think that's more sad than wonderful.
[23:38] <Fujitsu> Probably.
[23:39] <lamont> there are only templates for 50 levels... then it repeats, only with more crap
[23:39] <\sh> whatever kobo is
[23:39] <Fujitsu> \sh: see the kobodeluxe package.
[23:40] <\sh> hmmm...
[23:40] <\sh> na...
[23:40] <\sh> I'*m more in playing anarchy online or eve online
[23:42] <slangasek> lifeless: why, so the wiki does say, thanks :)
[23:42] <slangasek> lifeless: can you take care of getting hardy on there then, or should I poke mvo?
[23:45] <\sh> keescook, bug #163845 ready for review
[23:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163845 in python2.5 "[python] Multiple integer overflow vulnerabilities possibly resulting in the execution of arbitrary code or DoS" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163845
[23:57] <\sh> good night guys