[00:24] <joejaxx> LaserJock: !! :D
[00:24]  * joejaxx is bored :\
[00:25] <LaserJock> hi joejaxx
[00:25] <joejaxx> hi :)
[00:26]  * joejaxx is bored :(
[00:26]  * Fujitsu bores a hole through joejaxx.
[00:26] <joejaxx> :)
[00:28] <joejaxx> :(
[00:28] <joejaxx> i need something to do
[00:28] <LaserJock> merges!!!!
[00:28] <joejaxx> lol
[00:28]  * Fujitsu whispers `CVEs'
[00:28] <joejaxx> lol
[00:29]  * LaserJock yells merges
[00:29] <joejaxx> there are still merges?
[00:29] <joejaxx> lol
[00:29] <LaserJock> of course
[00:29] <LaserJock> probably a few hundred
[00:30] <Fujitsu> Only about 200.
[00:30] <joejaxx> 177 :)
[00:30] <joejaxx> yeah
[00:31] <Fujitsu> +20
[00:32] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: 20 manual merges?
[00:33] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: 20 updated merges.
[00:33] <Fujitsu> Didn't bother to count manuals.
[00:33] <LaserJock> ah
[00:42]  * TheMuso thinks we should clear outstanding before we even look at updated.
[00:43] <joejaxx> launchpad has timed out for me a bit too often
[00:43]  * TheMuso still has one merge of his own, but is in close contact with upstream for that package, and is waiting on what they are going to do.
[00:43]  * TheMuso remembers the downtime.
[00:43] <joejaxx> it impedes development
[00:44] <joejaxx> TheMuso: i mean besides the scheduled downtime :(
[00:44] <TheMuso> joejaxx: I know.
[00:44] <TheMuso> joejaxx: But you mentioning LP reminded me. I had almost totally forgotten.
[00:44] <joejaxx> ah ok
[00:45] <LaserJock> oh, when is the downtime?
[00:45] <StevenK> The 1.1.11 rollout is today?
[00:45] <StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
[00:45] <LaserJock> StevenK: yeah yea
[00:45] <TheMuso> StevenK: Yep.
[00:45] <joejaxx> nov 25 3 - 11 utc
[00:45] <StevenK> 2 and a bit hours
[00:45] <LaserJock> yeah
[00:45] <LaserJock> will that affect uploads?
[00:46] <StevenK> And then it won't be back until 10pm local time
[00:46] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I would think so.
[00:47] <LaserJock> I've got a big upload to do
[00:47] <LaserJock> I'll start it in a minute
[00:47] <LaserJock> and hopefully it'll get done in time
[00:47] <Ubulette> anyone able to resync that revu keyring ?
[00:48]  * TheMuso decides to do the sponsors queue.
[00:49]  * StevenK looks at a merge before playing WoW
[00:49] <joejaxx> StevenK: you really play WoW ? :)
[00:50] <LaserJock> I should try that some time
[00:50] <LaserJock> they have a downloadable demo right?
[00:50] <joejaxx> LaserJock: i think so
[00:50] <LaserJock> does it work in wine?
[00:50] <joejaxx> yes
[00:51] <StevenK> LaserJock: I have it running fine under wine on amd64, as does ajmitch
[00:51] <LaserJock> hmm
[00:51] <StevenK> LaserJock: You really want a recent Nvidia card, though
[00:51] <RAOF> And me, too.
[00:51] <StevenK> Gobs of RAM helps too
[00:51] <LaserJock> ah, that wouldn't work for me
[00:51] <joejaxx> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=9429
[00:51] <joejaxx> i have an intel x3100
[00:51] <joejaxx> fun stuff :(
[00:51] <LaserJock> all I've got is a nvidia 5700 and a 5200
[00:52] <StevenK> LaserJock: That'd work - something that's supported by -glx-new
[00:52] <LaserJock> ah, k
[00:52] <StevenK> WoW isn't particularly challenging to graphics hardware
[00:55] <LaserJock> I was all excited to go to my grandfather's house
[00:55] <LaserJock> so I could use his nice cable connection to upload gcompris
[00:56] <LaserJock> but then I forgot to put it on my laptop before I left
[00:56] <joejaxx> :(
[00:56] <LaserJock> so I'm still stuck uploading it from home
[00:56] <TheMuso> LaserJock: How big is the package?
[00:57] <LaserJock> oh, about 100MB
[00:58] <StevenK> LaserJock: You can download the orig from the Internet, surely?
[00:58] <StevenK> LaserJock: And then copy the .dsc/.diff.gz from home?
[00:59] <LaserJock> well, it won't be that big of a difference
[00:59] <LaserJock> my home is 1.5M DSL
[01:00] <LaserJock> with 386K up
[01:00] <LaserJock> my grandpas cable is like 3M but I'm not sure what the upload speed is
[01:00] <StevenK> That can be determined
[01:01] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe I should just try it
[01:01] <joejaxx> speedtest.net
[01:01] <joejaxx> :)
[01:01] <StevenK> LaserJock: My thought is the orig is the big bit, and that can be grabbed from a mirror
[01:01]  * StevenK goes back to trying to find some Vegemite
[01:02] <LaserJock> yeah, getting the .orig.tar.gz at like 500kb/s
[01:02] <LaserJock> or K/s
[01:03]  * StevenK might have to bring some Vegemite to the next UDS.
[01:04] <TheMuso> StevenK: You missed it while you were away?
[01:04] <StevenK> TheMuso: Not particularly, I just want to scare the locals
[01:04] <TheMuso> StevenK: haha
[01:05] <StevenK> Come on Quod, pick a good song
[01:05] <LaserJock> dang, grandpa's connection is 12M/s down and 2M/s up
[01:05] <LaserJock> a bit faster than my DSL
[01:07] <StevenK> "Grandpa .... can I move in?"
[01:09] <LaserJock> no cap either
[01:09] <TheMuso> lol
[01:09] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Truly unlimited? Wow.
[01:10] <LaserJock> it's comcast, so I don't know what else they are doing to it
[01:10] <Fujitsu> Haha.
[01:10] <TheMuso> ugh
[01:10] <TheMuso> Gotta love sticking keys.
[01:11] <joejaxx> TheMuso: :)
[01:11] <LaserJock> but yeah, it's unlimited
[01:12] <joejaxx> LaserJock: are you thinking about playing?
[01:13] <LaserJock> sometime maybe
[01:13] <joejaxx> ok
[01:16]  * TheMuso idly wonders whether the buildds will catch up while launchpad is offline. I suspect not.
[01:16] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: The world stops when LP is down.
[01:17] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Great pitty that.
[01:17] <StevenK> TheMuso: No, because the buildd management processes don't run while Launchpad is down - since they need to twiddle with the database.
[01:17] <Fujitsu> The buildds have been assimilated into the LP.
[01:17] <Fujitsu> So they don't operate.
[01:17] <TheMuso> RIght, I knew all that, but just thought there was a remote chance...
[01:20] <LaserJock> i would think they would queue up the uploads
[01:22] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: The queue daemon probably won't be running, so the FTP service won't be running.
[01:29] <StevenK> Mmmm, butter and Vegemite on toast
[01:30]  * TheMuso likes that, although he swaps the butter for cream cheese.
[01:30]  * Fujitsu likes both.
[01:31] <StevenK> I've not tried cream cheese and Vegemite on toast.
[01:31] <TheMuso> Its nic.
[01:31] <TheMuso> nice.
[01:31] <TheMuso> I just don't eat butter.
[01:31]  * Fujitsu wonders if we have scared the non-Australians away yet.
[01:31]  * StevenK chuckles
[01:32] <LaserJock> ok, still uploading at 22 min
[01:32] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: What is it?
[01:32] <StevenK> LaserJock: So, while it's uploading, you can Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies!
[01:32] <LaserJock> gcompris
[01:32] <joejaxx> LaserJock: they have a trial one where you do not have to download the entire game
[01:32] <LaserJock> StevenK: not quite so much, extreme lag
[01:33] <joejaxx> it streams the map data
[01:33] <frenchy> LaserJock: have you got time for a question>
[01:33] <LaserJock> frenchy: perhaps
[01:33] <frenchy> LaserJock: I know that there's a lot of LP stuff going on today?
[01:33] <StevenK> joejaxx: After you create an account and so on, I'm guessing?
[01:33] <Fujitsu> frenchy: It's going to be down for 8.5 hours.
[01:34] <joejaxx> StevenK: yes
[01:34] <Fujitsu> (translation schema changes, woo)
[01:34] <frenchy> LaserJock: I'll take that as a "maybe".  I was just interested in what the criteria are to get a package into Gutsy.
[01:34] <StevenK> Although if it makes translation stuff go super fast, I'm all for LP being down for 8 hours
[01:34] <frenchy> LaserJock: You declined mine and I was wondering what I need to do next time.
[01:35] <LaserJock> frenchy: well formed, adhears to policy, has accurate and compatible license information
[01:35] <LaserJock> frenchy: I declined yours?
[01:35] <Fujitsu> StevenK: I have no interest in Rosetta working properly, other than hopefully increased the signal-to-noise ratio on launchpad-users.
[01:35] <Fujitsu> s/the //
[01:36] <frenchy> LaserJock: Well actually you declined the "needs-packaging" for Gutsy ... but I'm not sure what that means https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/128858.
[01:36] <imbrandon> i just dont see for the life of me why any webservice has to be down for 8 hours for ANY change
[01:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 128858 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] me-tv" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[01:36] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Why not?
[01:36] <frenchy> LaserJock: I've already packaged it and sent it to REVU and have actioned everything so far.
[01:37] <Fujitsu> StevenK: I don't use it.
[01:37] <LaserJock> frenchy: I declined the Gutsy tast
[01:37] <LaserJock> frenchy: because you can't get it into Gutsy
[01:37] <Fujitsu> Nor do I use translations from it.
[01:37] <StevenK> I like it since it looks good and means you can translate stuff easily
[01:37] <LaserJock> *task
[01:37] <joejaxx> imbrandon: server migration? :D :P
[01:37] <imbrandon> joejaxx: even then
[01:37] <joejaxx> imbrandon: i know
[01:37] <joejaxx> i am only kidding
[01:37] <joejaxx> :)
[01:38] <imbrandon> joejaxx: we have migrated sits to toaly new hardware and had 200k active connections ( a *.microsoft.com site ) with -0- downtime, i'm SURE LP could do the same if planned properly
[01:38] <frenchy> LaserJock: I know I can't get it into gutsy now ... I would really, really like to see it in Hardy ... but want to make sure that when it comes time I'm ready.
[01:38] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: The Rosetta DB is absolutely massive.
[01:38] <joejaxx> imbrandon: sure
[01:38] <Fujitsu> And they need huge schema changes.
[01:38] <frenchy> LaserJock: I humbly ask for your guidance.
[01:38] <Fujitsu> Though why they designed it so that they couldn't just take Rosetta down, I'm really not sure.
[01:39] <Fujitsu> Taking down every service the distro uses is a bad idea.
[01:39] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: and? i'm thinking more why they dident design it to have a second copy to drop into production and cycle the hardware
[01:39] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: They could do that, but the database is writable!
[01:39] <frenchy> LaserJock: If you've got the time.
[01:40] <Fujitsu> They could clone the staging DB over, but it would overwrite any changes that were made in the intervening 8 hour migration time.;
[01:40] <StevenK> imbrandon: At which point you have keep syncing the two copies
[01:40] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: sure but locking it and ,making the change is what 5 minutes
[01:40] <imbrandon> StevenK: sure, modern db's have done that for years
[01:40] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: What about the changes in the original since you made the copy?
[01:40] <LaserJock> I was told that what is taking a long time is several hundred million row transfers betwen DB tables
[01:40] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Right, Rosetta, and lots of.
[01:40] <Fujitsu> It's not small.
[01:40] <Fujitsu> I can accept that it will take an eternity, but not that it has to take the rest of LP with it.
[01:41] <StevenK> I suspect they are moving tables, and may have to munge the data on the way past.
[01:41] <LaserJock> wahooo! upload done
[01:41] <imbrandon> i dont think either is acceptable imho, it can be avoided altogather
[01:41] <LaserJock> and it only too half an hour
[01:41] <StevenK> Fujitsu: But they use the same database ...
[01:41] <frenchy> LaserJock: Maybe another time would be better.
[01:41] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Right, I heard there were gigantic shifts in the data model.
[01:41]  * TheMuso has just knocked two sponsor requests off the queue.
[01:41] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Right, that's a design flaw.
[01:41] <Fujitsu> OR at least they shouldn't have to lock the rest of the world.
[01:42] <LaserJock> frenchy: well, I don't have time right now for a full review. I was just cleaning the Gutsy tasks because they don't make any sense
[01:42] <LaserJock> frenchy: what I did in no way means you can't get the packages into Hardy
[01:42] <StevenK> I'm unsure if you can block writes to certain tables - or if the web frontend gratefully accepts database failures
[01:42] <StevenK> Come on scribus, build quicker
[01:43] <imbrandon> :)
[01:43] <StevenK> Err, gracefully, as opposed to gratefully. :-)
[01:43] <LaserJock> I would think they could have done a lot of it not on the production DB, slip in the new one and just have downtime to deal with the diff
[01:43]  * TheMuso decides to ignore kmos' sponsor request for now...
[01:43] <LaserJock> or something similar
[01:43] <Fujitsu> StevenK: It should have been designed sanely such that they could disable Rosetta on production, take a copy of the DB, migrate it on another host (so as not to kill performance), and replace just the Rosetta tables.
[01:44] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, something like that
[01:44] <imbrandon> exactly
[01:44] <LaserJock> in fact
[01:44] <Fujitsu> Their goal is to eventually rule $world, and taking down $world for 8 hours is ridiculous.
[01:44] <LaserJock> we should *at least* get a read-only copy
[01:44] <frenchy> LaserJock:  Thanks, I'll continue down my path of uploading to REVU for comments.  Thanks, you've answered the question, essentially.
[01:44] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: staging.
[01:44] <Fujitsu> Although that's up to 24 hours out of date.
[01:44] <LaserJock> *and* it shouldn't kill authentication for wiki and stuff like that
[01:45] <LaserJock> seems like, in fact, that they should have separate DBs for different areas
[01:45] <LaserJock> so they could leave Malone, etc. up while doing the Rosetta change
[01:45] <LaserJock> but I'm not a DB engineer or anything
[01:45] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: They're moving to SSO soon, which should mean that it will kill auth on the other LP instances too, if production is down.
[01:45] <imbrandon> really there is no excuse for an 8+ hour downtime anyhow, peroid
[01:45] <imbrandon> even if its everythgin
[01:46] <LaserJock> I agree
[01:46] <Fujitsu> They need to be in the same PostgreSQL database for foreign keys and the like to work.
[01:46] <StevenK> Yes, exactly
[01:46] <LaserJock> when you're running a web service it seems like more than a few minutes downtime is unacceptable for most
[01:46] <Fujitsu> It's better than the old couple of hours of downtime every Tuesday.
[01:47] <imbrandon> yea anything longer than what it takes to switch a NIC cable is un acceptable
[01:47] <StevenK> And hanging onto 8 different database handles would suck, make the code more complicated, and then the frontend needs to do heavy lifting, rather than the database.
[01:47] <imbrandon> hardware is cheap
[01:47] <Fujitsu> StevenK: There's nothing to stop them adding the ability to switch various components into readonly mode.
[01:47] <Fujitsu> Or disabling them entirely.
[01:47] <Fujitsu> Having multiple databases would be silly and complicate things, definitely.
[01:48] <Fujitsu> At least they don't have to take it down for 8 hours every time they want translations for a new DistroSeries.
[01:49] <Fujitsu> They fixed that for Gutsy, IIRC.
[01:51] <LaserJock> ah well
[01:51] <LaserJock> gives us some "real life" time
[01:51] <LaserJock> or Ponies time
[01:51] <Fujitsu> (or some pony time)
[01:51] <Fujitsu> Damn, beat me.
[01:51] <StevenK> Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies!
[01:51] <imbrandon> give me time for debian work and ML rants :)
[01:51]  * Fujitsu tests his bzflag merge.
[01:52] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: You use LaTeX a fair bit, right?
[01:55] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: some yeah
[01:56] <LaserJock> imbrandon: you going for DM?
[01:56] <Fujitsu> How do I convince it that I want to unnumber a page?
[01:56] <LaserJock> ah, one sec
[01:57] <imbrandon> LaserJock: yea and then $sometime DD
[01:57] <imbrandon> why ?
[01:57] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I think I'm gonna
[01:57] <imbrandon> cool-i-o
[01:58] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I know how to reset the numbering, I do think I have one where I take out the numbering altogether
[01:58] <imbrandon> i just had dm-allowed-upload: yes , set on the 3 packages i actively maintain, so not all i need to do is get some DD sigs
[01:58] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I just want to exclude a specific page (TOC, in this case)
[01:58] <imbrandon> s/not/now
[02:00] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: try \thispagestyle{empty}
[02:01] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Ah, that looks like it might do it.
[02:01]  * Fujitsu checks.
[02:01] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That doesn't actually exclude it from the numbering, unfortuantely. It just hides the number.
[02:02] <LaserJock> then you can reset the count or set it differently by:
[02:02] <Fujitsu> That's a good point.
[02:02] <LaserJock> \setcounter{page}{1}
[02:02] <LaserJock> and instead of 1 set it to whatever you want
[02:02] <Fujitsu> Ah, thanks.
[02:03] <LaserJock> that's what I've got anyway
[02:03]  * Fujitsu wonders who the new Coalition leader will be, with the leader and deputy having resigned in the past 14 hours.
[02:04] <LaserJock> ok, I need a recomendation for how to get a Broadcom BCM4306 going
[02:05] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Did Costello resign?
[02:05] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That works. Thanks.
[02:05] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: 20 or so minutes ago, yeah.
[02:05] <TheMuso> From the front bench only?
[02:05] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: is that the elections over there?
[02:05] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: From politics.
[02:05] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: We had the federal election last night, right.
[02:05] <Fujitsu> And the opposition won.
[02:05] <LaserJock> I saw that Howard lost, but that's about as much as I know about Australian politics
[02:06] <Fujitsu> By a looong way.
[02:06] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Is benelong still in doubt?
[02:06] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Will be for quite some time.
[02:07] <somerville32> bddebian, :D
[02:07] <imbrandon> ok forgive my ignorance but i thought AU was still under brittish rule/monarch , federal election?
[02:07] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah I thought as much.
[02:07] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:07] <bddebian> Hi somerville32
[02:07] <imbrandon> heya bddebian
[02:08] <bddebian> Heya imbrandon
[02:08] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: The British monarch is still in a position of power, though we're very, very largely independent.
[02:08] <Fujitsu> We have a prime minister, much like the UK does.
[02:08] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: ahh ok, just confusion on my part then
[02:08] <LaserJock> huh, I thought AU was fully independent
[02:09] <LaserJock> is Canada still a little tied?
[02:09] <imbrandon> LaserJock: no , and neither is canada either
[02:09] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: We're not a republic yet.
[02:09]  * TheMuso hopes that the new government throws thta up on the agenda again.
[02:09] <Fujitsu> Our top ruler is still the British monarch.
[02:09] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Mhm.
[02:09] <TheMuso> that
[02:10] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: can the Queen actually do anything?
[02:10] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hasn't done anything for a long time, but in principle she could.
[02:10] <imbrandon> LaserJock: i think its kinda like brittan where she "can" but hasent in many years
[02:11] <Fujitsu> The monarch is represented by the attorney general, who.. doesn't really od much.
[02:12] <Fujitsu> *do
[02:12] <Fujitsu> Other than expel a government or two.
[02:12] <LaserJock> ah, interesting
[02:12]  * imbrandon wishes Di would have been the next queen, i always had a crush on her as a kid , shhhhhh
[02:12] <LaserJock> oh my gosh
[02:12] <imbrandon> lol
[02:12] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: s/attorney/governor/
[02:12] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Oops, I'm an idiot.
[02:13] <somerville32> The reserve powers of the crown are IMMENSE!
[02:13] <somerville32> Thats what my Poli Sci teacher would scream at us :/
[02:15] <LaserJock> so they have power but basically don't excercise it by tradition?
[02:15] <somerville32> Pretty much
[02:15] <somerville32> Though they have on occasion
[02:15] <somerville32> ie. King-Bing crisis
[02:17] <Fujitsu> The only significant thing I know of the Governor-General doing here dismissing Gough Whitlam, the prime minister at that time.
[02:17] <Fujitsu> Gahh, I can't type.
[02:17] <somerville32> I love when the Governor-General tells the government how it is :P
[02:17] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: hrm rember when you said it was done nightly ? have a peek at https://edge.launchpad.net/~imbrandon/+archive before it goes down
[02:17] <imbrandon> seems an error to me
[02:18] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: That is odd. See what happens after 1.1.11.
[02:18] <imbrandon> kk
[02:19] <imbrandon> hopefully edge will have the UI to delete by thern
[02:19] <imbrandon> then*
[02:21] <imbrandon> heh talking to the same people in 2 or 3 diffrent channels seems "weird" at times , but keeps things on topic i guess ;)
[02:21] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: As I'm sure you've noticed, there's a lot of documentation on all this stuff.
[02:21] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea tons
[02:22] <imbrandon> hell i dident know you could overide the changelog $dist by uploading to ~<name>/ubuntu/$dist
[02:22] <imbrandon> untill last night
[02:23] <imbrandon> so now i have [ppa-$dist] targets in dput.cf :)
[02:23] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:24] <LaserJock> I should work on the wiki in my spare time
[02:24] <LaserJock> I told them they need somebody to work on PPA support/documentation
[02:24] <imbrandon> i bet they said "why not you LaserJock?"
[02:24] <imbrandon> hehe
[02:25] <LaserJock> well
[02:25] <LaserJock> in 6 months or so I'll be available ;-)
[02:25] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: That's bug #137649
[02:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137649 in soyuz "Document suite-override feature in PPA" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137649
[02:26] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea but i dont normaly trall bugs or LP unless soemthing i'm using/workign on is broke :)
[02:27] <imbrandon> infact i found it from a google ( search.ubuntuwire.com ) search that brought up a log of siretart explainging it to someone else
[02:27] <Fujitsu> Hah.
[02:27] <LaserJock> yes
[02:27] <imbrandon> in an irc log
[02:27] <LaserJock> it seems like right now there's a bit of a gap there
[02:27] <LaserJock> mrevell doesn't really know a lot about the packaging end, etc.
[02:27] <LaserJock> and I don't think cprov likes documentation
[02:28] <imbrandon> hehe
[02:28] <LaserJock> right now they're like "help us MOTU!!"
[02:28] <LaserJock> ;-)
[02:28] <imbrandon> speaking of, anyone else tried / use the firefox 2 / IE 7 plugin i made for search.ubuntuwire.com ? i got -0- feedback on it :)
[02:29] <LaserJock> imbrandon: is it on serch.uw.c?
[02:29] <LaserJock> *search
[02:29] <imbrandon> yea, just below the search box
[02:29] <imbrandon> there is a link
[02:29] <somerville32> imbrandon, Maybe because it just works? :P
[02:29] <imbrandon> somerville32: possibly but i was just wanting to make sure :)
[02:29] <somerville32> I know I installed it
[02:30] <imbrandon> eventualy , maybe durring the LP downtime , i will add a FF 1.5 plugin too but for now it only works in FF2 or IE7
[02:31] <imbrandon> and a javascript to detect browser etc etc etc
[02:32] <LaserJock> imbrandon: nifty I like it
[02:33] <imbrandon> tis just an xml file , but kinda nice
[02:33] <imbrandon> well xml + binary icon blob
[02:33] <imbrandon> but still
[02:33] <LaserJock> you should put some google adsense on the side and get us some money for a nice machine :-)
[02:33] <somerville32> lol
[02:34] <imbrandon> there is google adsense ( at the top of certain results , try "wifi" ) but the money goes to google for letting people use the CSE, you can pay $100 a year to remove the ad's or be a non-profit
[02:34] <imbrandon> neither of which ubuntuwire is :)(
[02:35] <imbrandon> although someday i guess uw might need to file for non-profit status etc liek debian SPI(?) so we can take $$ donations easier
[02:36] <imbrandon> honestly i'm not sure whats involved nor if it would be worth it ( espicialy at this stage of uw )
[02:36] <somerville32> You hire a lawyer to file papers for you
[02:37] <somerville32> And than you have to prove you're non-profit every year
[02:37] <imbrandon> hehe yea, thats why as of today i dont accept any $$ / cash , only hardware , and even then its "iffy" i guess i should put that higher on the list of things to look into
[02:38] <somerville32> You can still accept donations
[02:38] <somerville32> It isn't like they're giving you big bucks
[02:38] <imbrandon> i hate business though, i like sticking to sysadmin and webapps :) maybe we can get someone else on the team that likes that kinda thing
[02:39] <imbrandon> somerville32: true, but i still dont just so there is no question about it atm
[02:39] <somerville32> I didn't know it was against the law for people to give you stuff :P
[02:39] <somerville32> They just can't mark it as a donation to a NPO
[02:39] <imbrandon> right
[02:39] <imbrandon> oh its not
[02:39] <imbrandon> well not afaik
[02:40] <imbrandon> and dunno if its good or bad but people havent been throwing $$ anyhow so i havent had to think about it much :)
[02:40] <somerville32> Once I make MOTU, I'll donate
[02:40] <somerville32> Wait, that sounds like blackmailing lol
[02:40] <imbrandon> but i would still feel better if it was an org taking the $$ / hardware and not a personal member of the team, not that i would turn anything own really
[02:41] <imbrandon> plus companies like HP etc like giving to a org not a person :)

[02:41] <Fujitsu> somerville32: Hah, so it does.
[02:42] <imbrandon> although some new HP bladecenters would rock :)
[02:42] <imbrandon> hahaha
[02:42] <somerville32> It has been almost 3 years since I first started playing with Ubuntu. 1 year since I got involved with contributing. It feels like just yesterday :)
[02:43] <imbrandon> yea i started with ubuntu semi close to 3 years ago, i would have to lookup the specific date, sometime just before breezy
[02:43] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Breezy was released slightly over 2 years ago.
[02:44] <imbrandon> ok somewhere arround there then :)
[02:44]  * Fujitsu arrived about half-way between Warty and Hoary.
[02:44] <somerville32> I didn't start contributing until Sept 06
[02:44] <somerville32> Just around the time Jono was hired
[02:45] <somerville32> I go from Joe Blow users to having phone conferences with Canonical staff - It feels really feed.
[02:45] <somerville32> s/feed/weird
[02:45] <imbrandon> heh
[02:45] <somerville32> Not so much just an online project - Ubuntu is getting pretty mainstream
[02:45] <Fujitsu> Phone conferences with Canonical staff? Nice.
[02:46] <imbrandon> has been on one or two phone calls with canonical, been a while though :) they must not like me anymore :)
[02:46] <somerville32> lol
[02:46]  * Fujitsu is just a mortal
[02:46]  * TheMuso has used ubuntu since warty preview
[02:46] <somerville32> I was around when it was ubuntulinux.org
[02:46] <imbrandon> heh i hate that domain
[02:47] <lifeless> noname.com :)
[02:47] <somerville32> lol
[02:47] <imbrandon> lifeless!
[02:47] <Fujitsu> lifeless: no-name-yet.com, you mean?
[02:47] <Fujitsu> Or was noname.com earlier?
[02:47] <lifeless> Fujitsu: bleh, my memory is crap on detail is all
[02:47]  * lifeless goes for lunch
[02:48] <Nafallo> ubuntulinux.org was around for quite a while though :-)
[02:48]  * somerville32 gets ready for bed.
[02:48] <imbrandon> brb gotta get some dew and smokes from the store
[02:48]  * Fujitsu criticises imbrandon's sleep schedule.
[02:58] <Fujitsu> Yay, no LP in 3 minutes
[02:59]  * somerville32 fears.
[02:59]  * Fujitsu watches the world stop for 8 damn hours.
[03:00] <somerville32> 8 hours is too long : (
[03:01] <Fujitsu> somerville32: Correct.
[03:02] <somerville32> Why do they need 8 hours?
[03:02] <somerville32> Give the monkeys a break?
[03:03] <Fujitsu> somerville32: Because they're too integrated and the Rosseta tables are so unbelievably massive it's not conceivable.
[03:03] <Fujitsu> *Rosetta
[03:06] <somerville32> I'm now a no one since I can't authenticate, :P
[03:07] <Fujitsu> The world has stopped.
[03:09] <LaserJock> at least the rest of the web universe doesn't authenticate against LP :-)
[03:09] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Yet...
[03:09] <LaserJock> what if you had LP as your openid
[03:09] <Fujitsu> That's coming soon.
[03:09] <LaserJock> you'd be screwed
[03:09] <Fujitsu> (really RSN, not LP RSN)
[03:09] <minghua> Fujitsu: Get away from the computer, go out and have fun. :-)
[03:09] <LaserJock> if you that was the only server you had
[03:09] <Fujitsu> minghua: Hah. Fun.
[03:11] <LaserJock> at least I got gcompris off
[03:11] <Fujitsu> Ah, that beats.
[03:11] <Fujitsu> *beast
[03:11] <LaserJock> now I gotta make sure I can make a Gutsy .pot
[03:12] <LaserJock> it feels so hackish
[03:13]  * imbrandon returns
[03:13] <imbrandon> man its like 30 outside, brrrr
[03:14] <imbrandon> 30F
[03:14] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I'm over in Sacramento, a bit warmer
[03:14] <imbrandon> cool hehe, yea i'm ready for warm again in KC
[03:14] <imbrandon> whats in sac ?
[03:15] <LaserJock> my grandpa's house
[03:15] <imbrandon> ahh
[03:15] <LaserJock> we went over there for Turkey Day
[03:15] <imbrandon> mmm an LP openid, i bet someone is working on that
[03:17] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: It's almost there.
[03:17] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I thought it was for authenticating via openid
[03:17] <imbrandon> they are putting an openid server up?
[03:17] <LaserJock> not necessarily providing openid servers
[03:17] <imbrandon> sides Fujitsu how you get all this info? you working for canonical in secret now ? heheh
[03:19] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I think it was going to be a server rather than consumer.
[03:19] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, the bugs I saw seemed more like being able to auth via an openid
[03:19] <Fujitsu> Hm, perhaps.
[03:19]  * Fujitsu checks staging.
[03:19] <somerville32> I hope they do something like that
[03:19] <LaserJock> but it would make sense to have a server for maybe other Ubuntu areas, like forums
[03:20] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: SSO is also coming soon.
[03:20] <somerville32> Than I'd have my servers authenticate against LP for my projects I host on there
[03:20] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: right
[03:20] <LaserJock> imbrandon: Fujitsu spends a lot of time looking at LP bugs and talking to people methinks
[03:20] <imbrandon> somerville32: yea like we try to do with UW
[03:20] <imbrandon> :)
[03:20] <somerville32> :)
[03:21] <Fujitsu> Those specs seem to have evaporated from the milestone lists, at least.
[03:21] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I know most of what I do because I get all LP bugs
[03:21] <Fujitsu> malone-me-too has been deferred again (this time to 1.2.3)...
[03:21] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:21] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I'd like to get them, but I suppose that's verboten.
[03:21] <somerville32> What is _that_?
[03:21] <LaserJock> they must be getting ready for 1.2 soon
[03:21] <somerville32> malone-me-too reminds me of tickle-me-elmo
[03:21] <imbrandon> lol
[03:21] <LaserJock> I haven't seen the milestone dates for a while
[03:21] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: 1.2 is like 1.1, but for 2008...
[03:21] <Fujitsu> somerville32: Haha.
[03:22] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: another 8 hours downtime ? wtf
[03:22] <Fujitsu> Oh joy, private blueprints coming in 1.2.5...
[03:22] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ahh, that's what they're doing
[03:22] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: as long as they come with a public LP wiki ;-)
[03:23] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hah. Like that's ever going to happen.
[03:23] <somerville32> I think wikis for projects would be awesome
[03:23] <Fujitsu> Oooh, a whole lot of api-* specs.
[03:23]  * Fujitsu looks.
[03:24] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I know, I know, some people really want it though
[03:24] <Fujitsu> Oh, targetted to 2.0. A couple of years.
[03:24] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, they are starting working on API stuff
[03:24] <imbrandon> lp development seem so slow
[03:24] <somerville32> LP is still up?
[03:24] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Fiiinaly.
[03:24] <Fujitsu> somerville32: No.
[03:24] <Fujitsu> somerville32: I'm using staging to view.
[03:26] <jono> hey all
[03:26] <somerville32> Hey Jono
[03:26] <jono> heya som
[03:26] <jono> heya somerville32
[03:27] <jono> :)
[03:27] <imbrandon> ello jono
[03:27] <jono> hey imbrandon
[03:27] <somerville32> jono, Only 3hrs of sleep?
[03:27]  * jono can't sleep :(
[03:27] <jono> damn flu
[03:27] <imbrandon> zomg, MPAA is using xubuntu as a base for their "anti P2P" tools, as in already done, not vaporware
[03:27]  * somerville32 nods.
[03:27] <LaserJock> imbrandon: ?
[03:27] <imbrandon> http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2007/11/mpaa_university_toolkit_opens_1.html?nav=rss_blog
[03:28] <somerville32> hehe
[03:28] <somerville32> I love the comments
[03:28] <imbrandon> LaserJock: look at the screenshots of it booting, xubuntu usplash
[03:28] <LaserJock> jono: might as well go back to sleep, LP is down forever :-)
[03:28] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I saw that. how evil.
[03:28] <jono> ahhh yes, the downtime
[03:28] <somerville32> ~"It says on the get Xubuntu page that they don't have shipit because of lack of funding. Maybe the MPAA will donate money to send Xubuntu to people who need it"~
[03:29] <imbrandon> lol
[03:29] <LaserJock> jono: our world has collapsed for the next 8hrs ;-)
[03:29] <jono> LaserJock: I am sure we survive :) just make sure you stock up on bread and milk :)
[03:29] <imbrandon> yea i'm kinda pissy about that having worked for some large web firms , 8 hours of downtime if ludicris
[03:30] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Particularly given the number of projects that LP is meant to support.
[03:30] <somerville32> Don't forget the cookies.
[03:30] <jono> imbrandon: unavoidable it seems
[03:30] <Fujitsu> If I were to break the work web app for more than half an hour, I would be murdered.
[03:31] <jono> I think you should all forward your concerns to the LP team :)
[03:31] <jono> let them know
[03:31] <imbrandon> jono: well unavoidable with the current implmentation, its totaly avoidable, in previous lives i have migrated *.microsoft.com sites to whole new platforms and db backends etc in less than 30 minutes downtime
[03:31] <jono> 8 hours is indeed a *long* time
[03:31] <imbrandon> with 200k active connections
[03:31]  * jono blows his nose
[03:31] <imbrandon> hehe
[03:32] <LaserJock> bah
[03:32] <LaserJock> anybody know carlos' email address? I can't get it off of LP
[03:32]  * imbrandon stops bitching on irc, atleaste if i'm gonna bitch i might as well make it usefull , e.g. to the correct people :)
[03:32] <jono> imbrandon: my thoughts precisely
[03:32] <jono> I am not the right person unfortunately
[03:32] <jono> (although fortunately for me)  :)
[03:32] <somerville32> hehe
[03:32] <imbrandon> hehe yea, LaserJock tried staging.lp ?
[03:33] <LaserJock> imbrandon: yeah
[03:33] <imbrandon> carlos who?
[03:33] <LaserJock> it won't open up the portlet for me
[03:33] <somerville32> Does staging redirect you to edge too?
[03:33] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Perello Marin.
[03:33] <imbrandon> google cache might have it
[03:33] <Fujitsu> somerville32: No.
[03:33] <LaserJock> the translations guy
[03:34] <imbrandon> LaserJock: Packages overview for Carlos Perelló Marín <carlos@pemas.net>
[03:34] <imbrandon> that it?
[03:35] <desertc> Launchpad is down?
[03:35] <desertc> "Do not want!"
[03:35] <imbrandon> desertc: yea for 8 hours, scheduled
[03:35] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I found his @canonical.com from an old email
[03:35] <imbrandon> ahh ok, i gleend that from debian
[03:36] <Fujitsu> I can has LP?
[03:37] <somerville32> Is there usually no chanserv in here?
[03:38] <Fujitsu> somerville32: Hm, I thought there was.
[03:38] <imbrandon> somerville32: not normaly on any channels iirc
[03:38] <imbrandon> ( on freenode )
[03:38] <Fujitsu> I think you have to set the flag manually.
[03:38] <imbrandon> but you can use it , e.g. /msg chanserv <cmd> #ubutnu-motu , etc
[03:39] <desertc> persia: ping
[03:40] <desertc> persia: The UQM package installation in Gutsy works great with the addon modules.  Thanks for your work on that - got that one down perfect.
[03:41] <imbrandon> ok dumb question, but what is the astrisk by the apt-mirror package on http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=brandon@imbrandon.com mean ?
[03:42] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Possibly means it has a comaintainer.
[03:43] <imbrandon> ahh right, one was just added , ok
[03:43] <Fujitsu> What benefits does apt-mirror hold over debmirror, other than the Gutsy version not eating mirrors?
[03:43] <imbrandon> honestly i have never looked, will debmirror let you mirror other arches ?
[03:43] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, where can i find a copy of the diff.gz for libvisual-plugins -2 ? the mirrors haven't synced yet.
[03:44] <Fujitsu> It will.
[03:44] <LaserJock> imbrandon: if you click on the Help at the top of that page it tells you all that
[03:44] <Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Check LP.
[03:44] <Fujitsu> Hm, I wonder if librarian is alive.
[03:44] <DarkMageZ> i'm talking about debian.
[03:44] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: probably not
[03:44] <Fujitsu> DarkMageZ: Check incoming.debian.org
[03:44] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: i can upload a copy to my people.uw.com site, but it should be a streight sync, i incorperated all ubuntu changes + some more
[03:45]  * jono feels tired
[03:46] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/libv/libvisual-plugins/ has it
[03:46] <DarkMageZ> yay
[03:46] <minghua> Yeah, just find a first-tier mirror.
[03:46] <LaserJock> alrighty, gcompris done
[03:46] <imbrandon> but as i said, as soon as LP is up i was gonna request a sync, all ubuntu changes should be in place
[03:46] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: ^^
[03:46] <somerville32> LaserJock, I confirmed that bug was fixed. Did you see that?
[03:47] <somerville32> LaserJock, (The one you asked me to check)
[03:48] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: dosent look like all arches have built it yet, but the main ones have
[03:48] <imbrandon> and before i uploaded to debian i checked that it would build in hardy ( same with libvisual )
[03:49] <LaserJock> somerville32: yeah, the one about the Xfce4 panel?
[03:49] <somerville32> aye
[03:49] <LaserJock> yeah, thanks for that
[03:51] <mdomsch> what's the package that maintains the pool hierarchy?  like apt-ftparchive, but presumably not.
[03:51] <Fujitsu> mdomsch: For Debian, it's dak. For Ubuntu... it's apt-ftparchive, run by Soyuz.
[03:52] <imbrandon> mdomsch: yea depends on the dist, and lots of indivuals use falcon ( wont scale to large distros though afaik )
[03:52] <mdomsch> oh, interesting - so apt-ftparchive can be used to manage the tree as a pool
[03:52] <imbrandon> s/falcon/falcon2
[03:52] <mdomsch> I'm going to have a ton of arch independent, distro independent (debian/ubuntu), and distro version independent packages
[03:53] <imbrandon> docs? images? hehe
[03:53] <mdomsch> which are simple packages with just a couple files - system BIOS images
[03:53] <mdomsch> which right now I copy into a tree and hardlink the whole tree
[03:53] <imbrandon> mdomsch: i would look into falcon, it scales well if there is only one uploader
[03:54] <mdomsch> imbrandon, will do, thanks
[03:56] <imbrandon> mdomsch: http://mirror2.ubuntulinux.nl/dists/feisty-seveas/all/   ( first package )
[03:56] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, you might be interested in checking out LP #159691. once launchpad comes back online.
[03:57] <LaserJock> hmm, I suppose I should put PPA 101 on my calendar
[03:57] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: i'll try to peek at staging , whats it about ?
[03:58] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, it's a visualization addition patch for libvisual-plugins.
[03:58] <imbrandon> ahh ok
[03:59] <DarkMageZ> contains visualizations that Accidentally didn't make it into the official release
[03:59] <imbrandon> hrm not the g-force one right ?
[04:00] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, not g-force. that was stripped out by debian.
[04:00] <imbrandon> right, ahh cool
[04:01] <imbrandon> i'm preparing -3 for upload now ( misc lintian and linda fixes ) think you could re-debdiff against -2 ?
[04:01] <imbrandon> it will give me something to do while LP is down
[04:01] <imbrandon> yea that 90_reconf was a monster
[04:02] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, i'm sorry about 90_reconf... someone else touched that in a bad way.
[04:03] <imbrandon> heh
[04:04] <imbrandon> https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvisual-plugins/+bug/159691
[04:04] <imbrandon> err
[04:04] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, the correctly messed up version of 90_reconf is 653.1KB
[04:05] <minghua> What is the difference between staging.LP and edge.LP?
[04:05] <imbrandon> yea i just cant grab the debdiff right now because libraryian seems to be down too
[04:06]  * somerville32 breaks out the rootbeer.
[04:06] <imbrandon> minghua: staging is a snapshot of the old db ( 24 hours ago ), edge is the newer UI working with live data
[04:07] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: if you can post that debdiff elsewhere i'll start working on getting it in now
[04:07] <minghua> imbrandon: What is the purpose of staging then?
[04:07] <somerville32> minghua, To play around :P
[04:07] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, i'm working on decreasing the size of it dramatically. i'm splitting xmms-goom into multiple different packages so i can build against it
[04:08] <imbrandon> minghua: so you can totaly fubar data etc and have no problems
[04:08] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: that wont help me in debian atm though :)
[04:08] <imbrandon> the old way would be better for debian untill its split there also
[04:09] <minghua> Well, I would think just doing backups of the db data is enough.  But I'm not going to complain.
[04:11] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/debdiff.tar.gz i thinks
[04:12] <somerville32> Are there actual people working on Launchpad for the next 8 hours or is it automatic?
[04:12] <imbrandon> hrm i get a server not found
[04:12] <imbrandon> somerville32: actual people afaik
[04:16]  * somerville32 was about to ask who would work at this hour but then stops himself.
[04:19] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, appears to be working here. maybe dns issue
[04:20] <imbrandon> yea i'm using open dns
[04:21] <imbrandon> imbrandon@hood:~/files/devel/packages/libvisual-plugins$ wget http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/debdiff.tar.gz
[04:21] <imbrandon> --22:19:50--  http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/debdiff.tar.gz => `debdiff.tar.gz'
[04:21] <imbrandon> Resolving mirror.randumb.org... 69.42.222.102
[04:21] <imbrandon> Connecting to mirror.randumb.org|69.42.222.102|:80...
[04:22] <imbrandon> seems to hang there
[04:22] <RAOF> imbrandon: You were after me last night?
[04:23] <imbrandon> RAOF: yea i have no idea why though, short memory
[04:23] <RAOF> Heh
[04:24] <LaserJock> bazaar.launchpad.net seems to still work
[04:25] <somerville32> Why wouldn't it?
[04:26] <LaserJock> cause everything else is down
[04:26] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: i grabed it from another connection, something about my comcast was sucking
[04:26] <LaserJock> I can't upload, can authenticate, etc.
[04:26] <somerville32> LaserJock, But bazaar is just transferring files
[04:26] <somerville32> Oh right
[04:27] <somerville32> Can you push?
[04:27] <LaserJock> not sure
[04:27] <LaserJock> but I can pull
[04:27] <somerville32> Well, it doesn't authenticate to pull
[04:27] <somerville32> I don't think
[04:27] <somerville32> Unless you use the bzr+sftp handle
[04:27] <LaserJock> well sure, I'm just suprised anything with .launchpad.net works ;-)
[04:28] <somerville32> lol
[04:29] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: i dont seem to see a copyright in any of those new groom files
[04:29] <imbrandon> where did you get them from
[04:30] <DarkMageZ> same licence as libvisual. taken from libvisual cvs tag 0.4.0 branch.
[04:30] <imbrandon> k
[04:45] <persia> desertc: you're imagining things: it uses uio_MOUNT_TOP instead of uio_MOUNT_ABOVE, so per-user mods are broken: will be fixed in hardy
[04:46] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: 244K    libvisual-plugins_0.4.0.dfsg.1-3.diff.gz
[04:46] <persia> \sh: I was only counting packages that depend on libao and didn't also depend on something else useful (e.g. libasound)
[04:46] <imbrandon> with yours and my changes applied
[04:47] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, ah sweet.
[04:48] <imbrandon> i got a few other minor things to do then i'll get someone to upload it , man i really need to go though NM :)
[05:10] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, i've also split xmms-goom into the library & -dev & xmms-goom. maybe if this was pushed into debian then i could cull back the size of that diff.gz even further
[05:11] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: is it already like that in the ubuntu archive or you dont have it uploaded yet?
[05:11] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, not uploaded yet.
[05:11] <imbrandon> yea i would sugest contacting the xmms dev and getting it pushed to debian, less merges
[05:12] <imbrandon> err xmms-goom maint, not xmms dev
[05:15] <LucidFox> How do I make pbuilder build packages depending on Sun's Java?
[05:15] <LucidFox> it says "sun-dlj-v1-1 license could not be presented"
[05:17] <LaserJock> not sure
[05:18] <imbrandon> iirc there isnt really a way, thats what jdong ran into with azureus
[05:18] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:18] <LaserJock> I borrowed the debconf from sun's packages once
[05:19] <LaserJock> and the point is that it won't proceed unless the license is agreed to
[05:21] <imbrandon> hrm could that be our anwser to adding things to multiverse? e.g. require a debconf like sun-java , effectively making it "click thorugh" as persia sugests ?
[05:22] <imbrandon> "this package might not be legal in your country , please check before installing ......" etc
[05:22] <LaserJock> well, that would make it hard for packages that build on other multiverse packages
[05:22] <LaserJock> but yeah
[05:22] <imbrandon> hrm true
[05:22] <imbrandon> maybe ...... hrm
[05:23] <LaserJock> if we had a multiverse mplayer for instance
[05:23] <imbrandon> well what about using the -phigh -plow etc to show it when installing but not when building against it
[05:23] <LucidFox> so, what should I do if I want to test-build a package from Debian build-depending on sun-java6-sdk?
[05:24] <imbrandon> LucidFox: good question :)
[05:25] <LucidFox> and most importantly, will the build servers be able to build it after syncing?
[05:25] <minghua> Test-build should be easy, you can always install the build-depends manually.
[05:25] <imbrandon> no
[05:25] <LaserJock> LucidFox: I doubt it
[05:25] <LaserJock> LucidFox: could you use IcedTea perhaps?
[05:25] <imbrandon> hrm i might draft a letter to -devel about this LaserJock , i think it might be a bit of work but a win win if we can use the priority correctly
[05:26] <imbrandon> yea icetea might be the better choice for ubuntu in this instance
[05:26] <imbrandon> persia: ping , i just had an idea about the multiverse thing i bounced off LaserJock and thought about sending to devel for more disscussion ..... lemme pastbin
[05:27]  * persia laments having purchased the wrong sort of video hardware
[05:27] <minghua> Anybody got icedtea working?
[05:27]  * minghua should try it.
[05:27] <somerville32> Persia :)
[05:27] <imbrandon> persia: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2204/
[05:28] <jdong> minghua: amd64 is a trainwreck, i386 icedtea runs pretty decently
[05:28] <imbrandon> persia: intel ? hehe
[05:28] <persia> minghua: From the Azureus reports, it does pretty well
[05:28] <jdong> minghua: definitely more success for me than GCJ stacks
[05:28] <persia> imbrandon: nVidia: there's a bug, and I know exactly where it is, and I can't fix it.
[05:28] <imbrandon> heh, ok what do you think about that pastebin comment
[05:28] <minghua> Hmm, good.  Can I try in gutsy?  Or only the one in hardy works?
[05:29] <jdong> minghua: gutsy one works fine
[05:29] <minghua> jdong: Thanks.
[05:30] <jdong> sure thing
[05:30] <jdong> now, this sleep thing for airport day tomorrow
[05:30] <persia> imbrandon: I don't like click-through.  I'm in favor of pure wrappers or actual source, but even click-through would be better than what we have now.
[05:30] <jdong> but first a bit more gtkpod hacking with this shiny iPod Touch :)
[05:30] <jcastro> hey jdong, congrats on motu
[05:30] <jdong> jcastro: thanks!
[05:30] <jcastro> jdong: you're from my area in -mi aren't you?
[05:30] <jdong> jcastro: indeed :)
[05:30] <jcastro> jdong: you coming home for xmas?
[05:30] <imbrandon> persia: yea i'm more talking about still allowing the stuff we have and the sources.list we have but making it "better"
[05:30] <persia> However, as was pointed out: check with the buildd admins: until we have a sensible way to handle bootstrapping multiverse build-depends, we do better with binary blobs (as much as I dislike them)
[05:31] <jcastro> you're at mit iirc
[05:31] <jdong> jcastro: yeah most likely
[05:31] <jcastro> jdong: let me know, we should have an ubuntu-mi get together
[05:31] <jcastro> plus we still gotta sign keys
[05:31] <jcastro> it's been on my todo since like, you started backports
[05:31] <imbrandon> jcastro: when are you bringing your rear to the midwest ?
[05:31] <persia> imbrandon: Erm.  I'm not sure click-through is better.  People don't read those.  I'd prefer disabled by default.
[05:32] <jcastro> imbrandon: midwest is over here dude, not where you live. :D
[05:32] <imbrandon> persia: yea but i think this might be a good middle ground
[05:32] <jcastro> imbrandon: come to penguicon or ohiolinux
[05:32] <persia> Also the licenses on different packages are different.  Some you cannot use in some places, some you cannot use for some purposes, some you just can't edit the source.
[05:32] <imbrandon> jcastro: hehe ok "mid" :)
[05:32] <jcastro> imbrandon: jono is coming to penguicon, and so is dibona and leslie from google. If you make your way over, you can stay at my place
[05:33] <imbrandon> persia: right , but it could be a requirement to present those restrictinos to be accepted into multiverse
[05:33] <imbrandon> instead of the choice we have now of all or none
[05:33] <persia> imbrandon: Ah, you mean do something where we abstract debian/copyright into some user-visible tool?
[05:33] <somerville32> Night
[05:33] <imbrandon> jcastro: yea if i could crash with you i would be HIGHLY more likely to be able to make it
[05:34] <imbrandon> persia: right, via debconf
[05:34] <jcastro> imbrandon: I live like 2 miles from there, hell yeah dude.
[05:34] <persia> As I'd prefer to avoid tweaking packages if possible, as I like to sync from Debian, I think the way to do this is to have the package managers pull it for confirmation.
[05:34] <imbrandon> food + beer + travel isnt that bad, its the hotels that kill me
[05:35] <imbrandon> ohhh leslie is comming too ? hehe i just talked to her today in email LOL
[05:35] <persia> Reasoning being that everything in multiverse needs checking, but I don't feel like writing a debconf wrapper for each one, especially when a new release opens.
[05:36] <imbrandon> persia: hrm very true, one patch to dpkg / apt would be much better than 100's of patches to maintain
[05:36] <imbrandon> ( assuming debian doesnt take it for non-free too )
[05:36] <persia> imbrandon: I don't know that it belongs at that low a level.  Maybe just adding a hook like apt-listchanges that does apt-showcopyright iff in multiverse, and making sure there are working frontends for all the GUIs.
[05:37] <imbrandon> and would have the added bonus of being able to be overidden by the buildd / pbuilder
[05:37] <persia> Then, we install apt-showmultiversecopyright by default, and we get a win, with minimal variation from Debian.
[05:37] <persia> imbrandon: Exactly, as the buildd wouldn't have apt-showmultiversecopyright installed.
[05:38] <imbrandon> sounds good, why dident we think about this the other day hehe
[05:38] <persia> imbrandon: The key is that today we're talking about everything, and the other day I was in a fever about binary blobs.
[05:38] <imbrandon> ahh :)
[05:38] <LaserJock> so I'm not really sure what the proposal is
[05:39] <LaserJock> persia: dude, we have so many binary blobs
[05:39] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:39] <LaserJock> sadly I contributed one
[05:39] <persia> LaserJock: Not that many, surely...
[05:39] <LaserJock> although I don't understand why it's not in -partner
[05:39]  * persia agrees with Laserjock
[05:40] <LaserJock> the one I did desktop-multiplier
[05:40] <LaserJock> is only in Multiverse because they made a deal with Canonical
[05:40] <LaserJock> so I would have thought it would go to -partner
[05:40] <imbrandon> persia: ok i'd like to get this idea to -devel ML, you want to type it up as you are much better expressing ideas cohearently , or would you rather me
[05:40] <persia> The definitely belongs in -partner
[05:40] <LaserJock> but I did it for dapper and -commercial wasn't well set up at that time I don't think
[05:40] <LaserJock> I got it in NEW in dapper-updates ;-)
[05:40] <LaserJock> what a kludge
[05:41] <minghua> NEW source in -updates?  Ewww.
[05:41] <LaserJock> yep
[05:41] <imbrandon> wow
[05:41] <persia> imbrandon: I'm a good editor and a decent critic, but a poor originator of ideas.  If you want to put together a draft, I'd be happy to poke it.  Further I think this should be a Spec rather than a ML post, but we're currently without an authentication DB.
[05:42] <LaserJock> a NEW binary package in an LTS -updates :-)
[05:42] <LaserJock> *binary blob
[05:42] <imbrandon> persia: true a spec might be a better place for this, how about i draft it as a spec then we'll send a RFC to the ML when we like it
[05:42] <persia> That'd just bad: clearly belongs in -commercial (-partner didn't exist for Dapper)
[05:43] <persia> imbrandon: That sounds ideal.  Put something together, throw it on the wiki when the auth DB is up again, poke me and I'll add some flesh, and we can send an RFC to the ML.
[05:43] <imbrandon> kk
[05:44] <imbrandon> helps that i think we have both extreams working on the spec :)
[05:44] <imbrandon> lol
[05:44] <persia> That's the point of collaboration :)
[05:45] <LaserJock> persia: heh, you shoulda seen what happened when I uploaded a new version to gutsy
[05:45] <LaserJock> it had to go through NEW again :-)
[05:45] <LaserJock> cause it'd never been in a release pocket
[05:45] <LaserJock> took me a minute to figure that one out
[05:45] <imbrandon> so wtf is desktop-multiplier anyhow?
[05:45] <persia> Oh my.  That's just further evidence that -updates wasn't the right place.
[05:46] <imbrandon> i woudl think from the name we already have virtual desktops and the compiz cube
[05:47] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:47] <LaserJock> no
[05:47] <LaserJock> it's a multiseat X
[05:47] <imbrandon> ahh
[05:48] <LaserJock> Burgundiva's old company made it
[05:48] <LaserJock> so the package I did was for their trial version
[05:48] <imbrandon> i was thinking it sounded familiar
[05:48] <LaserJock> but heah, it gave me enough money to get my passport for UDS-Paris
[05:49] <imbrandon> heh
[05:50] <LaserJock> in fact, that reminds me
[05:50] <LaserJock> they sent me a new version to upload :/
[05:50] <LaserJock> course I can't upload it tonight
[05:51] <LaserJock> darn, I need some more Golden Pony ideas
[05:52] <imbrandon> hrm .... *thinks*
[05:53] <imbrandon> this is the 3rd one right ?
[05:53] <LaserJock> yep
[05:54]  * imbrandon thinks StevenK sould get one for "most quiet induction into Canonical" :)
[05:55] <imbrandon> wow and i might get one for the most typos `evar' on IRC
[05:55] <imbrandon> hrm
[05:56] <LaserJock> heh
[05:59] <jdong> hehe manipulating these iPod MP4 atoms make me think of 09 F9.....
[06:00] <imbrandon> heh i think i'm gonna get a touch for myself for xmas
[06:00] <imbrandon> looks like they have skype almost working
[06:01] <jdong> imbrandon: I'd totally recommend the unit
[06:01] <jdong> imbrandon: it's been a joy to use, though I've only had it for 48 hrs
[06:01] <jdong> the web browser realy surprised me as to how well it works
[06:01] <RAOF> Skype on a touch?  Sounds cool!
[06:01] <jdong> and the touch interface works super well too
[06:01] <imbrandon> well i really need a new computer &/or laptop first , so it might be a "january" xmas :)
[06:01] <jdong> :)
[06:01] <jdong> athiest geeks get gadgets day.
[06:02] <imbrandon> wow its only midnight , hrm
[06:02] <jdong> aww LP is still down
[06:03] <Fujitsu> jdong: For a few more hours yet...
[06:06] <Fujitsu> persia, imbrandon: As far as I know, you can't legally work around the Java EULA, even on buildds...
[06:06] <persia> Fujitsu: Two different things:
[06:06] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea this was more an idea "for everything else in multiverse"
[06:06] <persia> 1) We're just talking about exposing a EULA for everything in multiverse
[06:07] <persia> 2) Once the EULA is accepted, the same user can keep downloading Sun Java as much as they want: that just requires someone to set up the chroot with the right preseed, and to actually mean it when they set the flags.
[06:07] <Fujitsu> Or we could just build things with IcedTea.
[06:08]  * persia prefers IcedTea
[06:08] <persia> Actually, wasn't IcedTea merging back as "official" openJava reached a release?
[06:09] <Fujitsu> IcedTea is only temporary, right.
[06:09] <Fujitsu> Hm, I see that PPA is being released wiht 1.1.11.
[06:09] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: WHat do you mean exactly?
[06:10] <TheMuso> We already have PPA.
[06:10] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: But you currently have to be in Launchpad Beta Testers.
[06:10] <imbrandon> TheMuso: only for Beta members
[06:10] <persia> Don't we currently just have PPA for beta & ~ubuntu-dev?
[06:10] <TheMuso> Oh
[06:10] <LaserJock> it was a Public Beta
[06:11] <Fujitsu> persia: Just beta, as far as I know.
[06:11] <TheMuso> Does that also mean we can delete packages?
[06:11] <persia> Fujitsu: No, I have PPA on production.
[06:11] <LaserJock> we can ask to have packages deleted
[06:11] <TheMuso> LaserJock: thats not the same
[06:11] <LaserJock> no, but it's better than "no, not at all"
[06:11] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Did you convince them to allow ~ubuntu-dev too?
[06:11] <TheMuso> True.
[06:12] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I actually can't remember
[06:12] <LaserJock> I thought it was just beta-testers but it's entirely possible that ~ubuntu-dev got it too
[06:12] <imbrandon> so what time is it supose to be back?
[06:13] <imbrandon> +5 hours ?
[06:13] <jcastro> it's like a 5 hour deal
[06:13] <LaserJock> yeah, it's already been like 3 hrs
[06:13] <Fujitsu> 0200Z + 8 hours, I think.
[06:13] <LaserJock> started at 03:00 UTC
[06:14] <imbrandon> right 9pm local
[06:14] <calc> http://news.launchpad.net/maintenance
[06:14] <jcastro> Following further tests, we're going to make the Launchpad 1.1.11
[06:14] <jcastro> release on Sunday 25th November between 03.00 and 11.00 UTC. Launchpad
[06:14] <jcastro> will be unavailable during this time.
[06:14] <calc> 8hr
[06:14] <jcastro> oops, sorry
[06:14] <Fujitsu> Oh, right, the last one was at 0200.
[06:14] <imbrandon> so 5 hours from now, hrm
[06:14] <jcastro> imbrandon: I think they expect us to do normal things during this time
[06:15] <LaserJock> jcastro: like???
[06:15] <jcastro> like, spend time with friends in real life and all this crap
[06:15] <LaserJock> umm
[06:15] <imbrandon> jcastro: heh yea i'm working on my website and debian pacakges :)
[06:15]  * calc thinks they need to stop breaking the database ;)
[06:15] <LaserJock> I don't have friends in real life
[06:15] <imbrandon> jcastro: that was all for the last few days
[06:15] <imbrandon> e.g. thanksgiving
[06:15] <imbrandon> :)
[06:15] <jcastro> imbrandon: this is why they made bzr, so that when launchpad is down you can still get work done
[06:15] <imbrandon> i've had enough of RL for a few :)
[06:16] <calc> jcastro: though you can't see any bug reports
[06:16] <imbrandon> jcastro: hahah most of my bzr is LP hosted :)
[06:16] <jcastro> calc: that way you aren't distracted!
[06:16] <calc> it also takes the wiki down effectively :-\
[06:16] <jcastro> imbrandon: local commits, for the win
[06:16] <LaserJock> imbrandon: you can still pull from LP though
[06:16] <imbrandon> true
[06:16] <LaserJock> we just need Malone in bzr ;-)
[06:17] <imbrandon> i'd rather just hack wordpress :)
[06:17] <imbrandon> i was suprised to see dak is maintained in bzr today :)
[06:17] <Fujitsu> Hmm, I do need to do those 42 damn wordpress CVEs at some point.
[06:17] <imbrandon> 42!!
[06:18] <LaserJock> imbrandon: it's web software!
[06:19] <imbrandon> heh yea, i've never really seen the point of packageing webapps, but hey, to each their own
[06:20] <imbrandon> you know its sad when ubuntu supports my usb wireless dongle better than OSX or Windows; s/sad/great/g
[06:21] <imbrandon> i guess the forums are still up, we could trall there for bugs :)
[06:21] <imbrandon> heh
[06:22] <LaserJock> imbrandon: I see the point of packaging webapps, but they are difficult to maintain
[06:23] <LaserJock> I like just browsing the repos for web apps to install
[06:23] <persia> I don't see how they are any more difficult to maintain than any other server applications.  Less well written maybe, but...
[06:23] <LaserJock> well, things like wordpress are so trivial to download
[06:24] <persia> Maybe, but then the user has to maintain it: centralised maintenance means more hack time for everyone
[06:24] <LaserJock> yep
[06:25] <LaserJock> if we're constantly behind though (and webapps seem to release fairly fast in general) our packages are less useful
[06:26] <persia> Maybe: as with other apps, it's a matter of having a good upstream, stable releases, etc.
[06:26] <Fujitsu> Webapps have things such as PHP to curse them easily.
[06:27] <imbrandon> <3 PHP
[06:27] <imbrandon> http://dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2002222371121.gif
[06:28] <LaserJock> heh
[06:28] <Fujitsu> Hah,.
[06:29] <imbrandon> that can be soooooo true at times
[06:36] <LucidFox> could someone test-build a package for me, please?
[06:36] <LucidFox> http://lucidfox.org/dump/woodstox/
[06:37] <LucidFox> (not putting on REVU because it's just a modified package from Debian)
[06:37] <persia> LucidFox: Sure.  What target?  sid?
[06:37] <LucidFox> hardy
[06:37]  * persia does both, just in case
[06:38] <persia> Yeah, sid is broken: no icedtea :(
[06:38] <StevenK> Ooof. That was fun.
[06:39] <LaserJock> StevenK: hello
[06:39] <imbrandon> heya StevenK
[06:39]  * imbrandon polls for any DD's awake ( besides StevenK lol )
[06:41] <LucidFox> I would have avoided the dependency on icedtea if I could, but it uses a class not yet in GNU Classpath
[06:42] <Amaranth> jdong: you got the ipod touch to work?
[06:42] <Amaranth> jdong: or did you jailbreak it?
[06:45] <StevenK> Hey
[06:45] <StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
[06:46] <LaserJock> StevenK: yep, with the LP downtime I'm making some progress
[06:46] <LaserJock> it'll be so anticlimatic :(
[06:46] <persia> LucidFox: Built successfully ... Build needed 00:00:15, 7684k disk space
[06:47] <LucidFox> thanks!
[06:52] <StevenK> LaserJock: Just as long as I get a pony :-)
[06:56] <LaserJock> hmm, I'll have to think about that
[07:34] <impresive> çäðàññòå!
[07:35] <Fujitsu> That is impressive.
[07:59]  * siretart senses hilights...
[08:03]  * persia enjoys the linda Easter Egg for today :)
[08:09] <superm1> Amaranth, i did
[08:10] <Amaranth> superm1: you got the iPod Touch to work with linux without jailbreaking it?
[08:10] <superm1> Amaranth, no not without jailbreaking.
[08:10] <Amaranth> yeah
[08:10] <Amaranth> that's the catch :P
[08:10] <superm1> Amaranth, but I've got packages for gutsy to support it after the jailbreak.  libgpod needs a newer version
[08:10] <superm1> and same with gtkpoda
[08:10] <superm1> and same with gtkpod needs to be built against
[08:10] <Amaranth> yeah, i know
[08:10] <superm1> they're all on a ppa though
[08:11] <superm1> and a package i pushed to hardy and the PPA for mounting and unmounting it properly
[08:11] <Amaranth> there is some windows software that lets you use it to store regular files
[08:11] <superm1> with artwork and stuff
[08:11] <Amaranth> hoping i can snoop it's traffic to figure things out
[08:11] <superm1> well i suspect it uses apple's driver for it
[08:11] <Amaranth> apple doesn't let you put arbitrary files on it
[08:12] <superm1> but i mean they use apple's driver hooks
[08:12] <superm1> to manage such actions
[08:12] <Amaranth> Apple offers such a thing?
[08:12] <superm1> well i wouldn't say "offer"
[08:12] <Amaranth> hehe
[08:12] <superm1> but i'd bet the functionality was available in the driver
[08:13] <Amaranth> either way, something non-iTunes should be interesting to snoop
[08:13] <superm1> just not exposed to itunes
[08:13] <superm1> yeah
[08:13] <Amaranth> trying to snoop a zune under windows isn't even possible
[08:13] <Amaranth> been playing with that too :P
[08:13] <superm1> why don't you want to jailbreak your touch?
[08:13] <Amaranth> it's jailbroken but that's not an end-user solution
[08:13] <superm1> yeah
[08:15] <superm1> Amaranth, do you hang out in #gtkpod or similar?  I bet those folks are in the same boat, maybe want to check what progress they've made
[08:15] <superm1> before jumping in yourself
[08:15] <Amaranth> yeah, i'm in there now
[08:15] <Amaranth> and in #banshee on gimpnet, those seem to be the places to be
[08:15] <Amaranth> i want to figure something out before popping in and being annoying though :P
[08:16] <superm1> hehe
[08:16] <superm1> well i'll join you in #gtkpod, i'll be interested to see what comes of this too.  I can't be of too much help though as i dont have a windows box at all
[08:17] <Amaranth> Neither do I
[08:17] <Amaranth> Or an iPod Touch :P
[08:17] <Amaranth> jtbl does though, he's in the same city as me
[08:28] <superm1> Amaranth, well i've got one, and i'll be glad to help test anything that comes around
[08:28] <superm1> just ping me if i dont catch it come around
[08:28] <Amaranth> alright
[08:28] <imbrandon> superm1: can you "unjailbreak" it ?
[08:29] <superm1> imbrandon, i've got a buddy with a mac that can reflash it
[08:29] <superm1> if need be
[08:29] <imbrandon> right, i was just wondering if it was like ipod linux where it could be reflashed
[08:29] <superm1> well the way jailbreaking works, you still use the original firmware
[08:30] <superm1> it just exploits a tiff vulnerability to let you add stuff to the filesystem
[08:30] <imbrandon> heh sounds like xbox classic :)
[08:30] <superm1> yeah
[08:30] <superm1> the vulnerability is fixed in the newer firmware though, so you need to downgrade (which they let you do still in iTunes)
[08:31] <superm1> and then exploit, and then upgrade again
[08:31] <Fujitsu> superm1: Aw, they haven't found a new one yet?
[08:31] <superm1> not as far as i heard
[08:31] <superm1> i just got my touch a few days ago, and that's the process I went through
[08:32] <Fujitsu> What stuff is there available for them now?
[08:33] <superm1> all the iPhone apps, gameboy adv emulator, nes emulator, openssh, apache, tcl/tk, perl, python, ruby, squid, lots of theme customization
[08:33] <superm1> a bunch of quick hack games
[08:33] <imbrandon> i heard that audio recording was almost working thus skype :)
[08:33] <superm1> well you need skype for arm first
[08:33] <Fujitsu> Hah, run a proxy in your pocket..
[08:34] <persia> There are plenty of good SIP clients :)
[08:34] <superm1> i think running a web server in your pocket is more bragging rights
[08:34] <Fujitsu> Probably.
[08:34] <superm1> oh and there is an aim/jabber client, and IRC client too
[08:34]  * persia has never found a webserver in once pocket to be useful
[08:34] <Fujitsu> Ah, good.
[08:35] <imbrandon> well it might be good for interacting with stored data on the ipod , like phpmyadmin or similar
[08:35] <imbrandon> or serving mp3 via http :)
[08:35] <persia> imbrandon: Maybe, but it's slow.  Better to use a local admin thing.
[08:36] <superm1> there are a whole lot of other small apps for doing useful things too, i was pretty surprised when i looked at the repository for it
[08:36] <imbrandon> persia: hehe true but my dual 75mhz arm ipod nano has a webserver for serving mp3's and a mpd :)
[08:37] <imbrandon> slow but usefull
[08:37] <Fujitsu> <3 mpd
[08:37] <persia> imbrandon: Sure, but do you ever use it for that?  I runa SMB server in my pocket, and find that useful, but http just seems useless.
[08:38] <imbrandon> heh well considering i do 90% or more of my code in php, web just seems a natuaral gateway to me
[08:38]  * TheMuso pricks up his ears at the mention of mpd.
[08:39] <Fujitsu> My only issue with it is that which Joey Hess mentioned earlier: the playlist system.
[08:39] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: What issue is that exactly? I am not aware of that.
[08:39] <imbrandon> persia: plus docking while out at a friends might not be possible
[08:40] <imbrandon> but 802.11 + http is
[08:40] <Fujitsu> It can be fairly limiting at times, compared to other players which can play either randomly from the library, or a playlist.
[08:40] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: Ah right.
[08:40]  * persia just uses SMB, but yes...
[08:40] <TheMuso> It would be nice if mpd supported playing from the library, without needing a playlist.
[08:40] <TheMuso> IMO mpd should also break out its input/output support into modules.
[08:41] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Right, that is the main problem.
[08:41] <Fujitsu> Though the modularity would be good.
[08:41] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[08:43] <imbrandon> heh irc on the touch
[08:44] <TheMuso> Ah yes, just read Planet Debian and saw the blog post re mpd.
[08:44] <TheMuso> imbrandon: Geeky.
[08:45] <imbrandon> anyone worked out how to change out the flashmemory ?
[10:12] <Nafallo> a/win 21
[10:25] <effie_jayx> heh... so much for my bug hunting ... launchpad is offline
[10:25] <effie_jayx> scheduled... I may add ;)
[10:35] <nxvl> i have make a fresh install of ubuntu at my desktop and now i need to create my pbuilders, that takes so long...
[10:37]  * Hobbsee wonders why you didn't just copy the /var/cache/pbuilder folder
[10:43] <nxvl> Hobbsee: cause i have had debian inhere
[10:43] <nxvl> Hobbsee: all my pbuilders are at work
[10:44] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[11:01] <LucidFox> Hmm, Launchpad is still down.
[11:02] <geser> edge.launchpad.net still shows that LP is down but launchpad.net show the normal page already
[11:02] <LucidFox> ah
[11:03]  * Hobbsee points to the ubuntu-devel ML and such
[11:04] <geser> Hobbsee: it's past 11 UTC, so LP should come back soon (hopefully)
[11:19] <effie_jayx> geser,  I am waiting tooo
[11:19]  * effie_jayx eager to look at bugs
[11:36] <effie_jayx> launchpad back on...
[11:44] <proppy> hi
[11:44] <geser> Hi proppy
[12:09] <highvoltage> !seen norsetto
[12:09] <Hobbsee>  /msg seenserv seen norsetto
[12:09] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen norsetto - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[12:10] <LucidFox> If I'm modifying a Debian package and it says "Maintainer: Debian Games Team <pkg-games-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>" and "Uploaders: Vincent Fourmond <fourmond@debian.org>", what should I set XSBC-Original-Maintainer to?
[12:10] <highvoltage> oh, right. thanks Hobbsee
[12:10] <Fujitsu> LucidFox: Debian Games Team.
[12:10] <persia> Mez: The unrar-nonfree bug ended up with a very odd changelog somehow: you might want to look at that :)
[12:10] <Fujitsu> (with the email address, of course)
[12:10] <LucidFox> and preserve the uploader field?
[12:11] <Fujitsu> LucidFox: I believe that is the policy.
[12:11] <LucidFox> thanks
[12:11] <persia> LucidFox: Please follow Fujitsu's advice: that is the preferred mangling.  Which package?
[12:11] <LucidFox> freecol
[12:12] <persia> LucidFox: Please subscribe me to the bug, and I'll push it to SVN so we can sync soon.
[12:13] <nxvl> con someone help me with a FTBFS
[12:13] <persia> nxvl: Which one?
[12:14] <LucidFox> persia> two Java library dependencies need to be synced first
[12:14] <persia> LucidFox: Ah.  No rush then :)
[12:15] <nxvl> http://pastebin.com/m5111ad51
[12:15] <nxvl> persia: bootcd
[12:16] <nxvl> in that pastebin is the debian/rules and the output
[12:16] <nxvl> as i can see the error is while running  "$(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp"
[12:16] <nxvl> but i can't find how bootcdmk2diskconf is build
[12:17] <persia> nxvl: bootcdmk2diskconf is built by lines 34-38.
[12:17] <persia> (of your paste)
[12:18] <persia> I'd suggest performing a local build in a clean chroot, and looking at the contents of the file: I suspect that either the regexes are funny or that you need to adjust something in bootcdmk2diskconf.src
[12:19] <nxvl> persia: so, i can run that command and see what happend?
[12:20] <persia> nxvl: To make sure I get the same state, I usually start a fresh chroot (schroot -c distname and pbuilder --login are typical ways to do this), install the build-deps, and run debuild from the package directory.  This way, all the patches get applied, and all the previous build steps have occurred when the investigation begins.
[12:22] <nxvl> persia: thnx, i will try with pbuilder --login :D
[12:23] <Mez> persia, which bug?
[12:23] <persia> bug: #164962
[12:24] <persia> Err bug #164962
[12:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164962 in rar "Please sync rar 1:3.7b1-2  (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free )" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164962
[12:25] <persia> Also, 164963
[12:26] <Mez> yeah.. they seemed to take a long time to get rhtough
[12:26] <persia> I wonder if something changed on changelogs.d.o
[12:46] <\sh> 065ns
[12:46] <\sh> hmmm...moins
[12:46] <\sh> strange...why is the num lock of my laptop keyboard always enabled when I log into gnome
[12:52] <\sh> moins Hobbsee
[12:52] <Hobbsee> hiya
[12:54] <\sh> hmmm...time to leave now...christmas market time begun ;) cu later
[13:06]  * persia adds the patch tag to lots of bugs, hoping someone will test the patches & generate debdiffs for the sponsors queue
[13:19] <LucidFox> By the way, is there any reason why icedtea is not in Debian yet?
[13:20] <persia> LucidFox: inertia mostly.
[13:34]  * persia notes that there seem to be lots of little patches against evms, and that someone could probably close a lot of bugs with a single upload if they wished.
[13:49]  * persia claims bugmail is overrated, and it's best to check the bug.
[13:55] <frenchy> Hi persia: When I'm building for gutsy and I've made a change to the source that bumps up the upstream version number ... and ... I want to repackage it ... if I simply update the version in the debian/changelog ... what do I put for the comment?
[13:55] <frenchy> Thanks in advance.
[13:55] <persia> :)
[13:55] <frenchy> persia: Have I missed something?
[13:56] <persia> frenchy: You'll want to ask your questions generally, as other people may have better answers, or just be more bored :)
[13:56] <frenchy> Ta.
[13:56] <persia> My opinion is that you'd want to use * New Upstream Version in your debian/changelog
[13:56] <frenchy> Anyone please ...
[13:57] <persia> If there are significant fixes, follow this by a couple indented lines starting with '-': this is especially important when closing LP bugs.
[13:57] <frenchy> persia: Ok so you're saying that it does seem like an Escher puzzle to you also.
[13:57] <james_w> although you may want to explain why a new upstream version is necessary if this isn't just a local package or backport or similar.
[13:57] <frenchy> persia: Yep ... down with the Closes: # ...
[13:57] <persia> james_w: It's an Ubuntu local package.
[13:58] <persia> Lastly, if there are packaging changes to go along with the upstream changes, note these separately in the changelog.
[14:00] <frenchy> persia: Sure ... but because I'm this developer/upstream/maintainer beast ... I fixed all the issues already ... :) ... but I bet you already saw that this is my issue.
[14:00] <frenchy> i.e. I competely understand you last.
[14:00] <frenchy> s/you/your/
[14:02] <Amaranth> It's no fun being the upstream and the packager
[14:02] <Amaranth> You fix things upstream then have to fix them in patch form in the package instead of just giving people the new upstream
[14:03] <frenchy> Hi Amaranth: I just figured it was the common thing.
[14:03] <Ubulette> hi, let's see if revu likes me better today...
[14:03] <persia> Amaranth: Why can't you just pass the new upstream for a while (at least until FeatureFreeze)?
[14:04] <persia> Ubulette: It ought, although it may have become confused because of the extended LP outage.
[14:04] <Amaranth> persia: Sure but I'm talking about after UVF
[14:04] <Ubulette> could I push the exact same thing that got rejected yesterday ?
[14:04] <persia> Ah..  I forgot.  I'm late!
[14:04] <Amaranth> persia: or after release
[14:05] <frenchy> Amaranth: I figured no one else was going to do it.  It's fun learning how it all hangs together.
[14:05] <persia> Amaranth: Right.  Makes sense.
[14:05] <Hobbsee> Ubulette: what got rejected?
[14:05] <Hobbsee> (and why?)
[14:05] <Ubulette> my 1st revu push
[14:06] <Hobbsee> ...
[14:06] <Ubulette> probably my gpg key not sync yet
[14:06] <Hobbsee> and the upload name?
[14:06] <Ubulette> dput revu prism_0.8+svn20071115r8030-0ubuntu1_source.changes
[14:06] <Ubulette> done
[14:06]  * persia notes that the rejection was ~24 hours back
[14:07] <Ubulette> I've just resent the exact same files
[14:07] <Hobbsee> Ubulette: it still wont help you - the keysync isnt automatic
[14:08] <Ubulette> eh? in the wiki, it says it is
[14:08]  * Hobbsee resyncs the keyring
[14:08] <Hobbsee> it changed.  it doesnt appear to be now
[14:08] <persia> Ubulette: It is sometimes automatic.  Just now it's between automated states.
[14:08] <Ubulette> hmm
[14:09] <Hobbsee> persia: i couldn't find it in the cron stuff, when i last checked.
[14:09] <Hobbsee> persia: afaik, sparky never had it automated
[14:09] <Hobbsee> because it was taking ages
[14:09] <persia> Hobbsee: it's not automatic now.  Maybe soon again: there was some lpusers hacking happening earlier.
[14:10] <Ubulette> then you need to update the wiki page.
[14:10] <Hobbsee> or you could
[14:10]  * Hobbsee is studying for an exam tomorrow
[14:10] <Ubulette> "Next, ask the REVU admins in #ubuntu-motu to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring, which grants you upload rights to REVU. If you don't get a reply within 24 hours, the keyring is resynced nightly via cron, so you will be able to upload after this happens"
[14:10] <Hobbsee> well, drop the second sentence.  you're there now, after all.
[14:10] <persia> Ubulette: That's still correct, and if it weren't for my bad memory, it would have worked for you yesterday.
[14:12] <joejaxx> do you have to be on hte motu-mentoring-reception csv?
[14:12] <joejaxx> the*
[14:13] <persia> joejaxx: For what?
[14:14] <joejaxx> for going through through the process
[14:15] <joejaxx> i have been doing motu hopeful stuff since feisty
[14:16] <joejaxx> but really have not enntered a process
[14:16] <joejaxx> entered*
[14:16] <joejaxx> it has been more of a "oh fix this" thing :P
[14:17] <Ubulette> Hobbsee, is the resync over ?
[14:17] <persia> Ubulette: It takes 20-40 minutes.
[14:17] <Hobbsee> Ubulette: no.
[14:17] <Ubulette> lol, ok
[14:17] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: you do not need to be.  some people find it helfpul
[14:18] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: you'll do better if you have a drive of wanting to see things fixed, and being determined to do it.  and being able to read documentation like how to get sponsorship
[14:18] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: and being able to ask decent questions (with enough info in them) in here
[14:18] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: sure :) i already do that though
[14:19] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: then you'r efine :)
[14:19] <joejaxx> but it seems like if i do not get into some process i will still be in the same state come hardy + 2
[14:19] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: nah, not really.
[14:20] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: come to think of it, i've not sponsored your stuff in a while though
[14:20] <joejaxx> yeah there are really only two people that do
[14:20] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: have you asked them if they think you're ready for motu?
[14:20] <persia> joejaxx: The mentoring process will soon have 2 stages: the first being an introduction (which you don't need), and the second being final planning (which you don't need yet).  You'd do better just to push things in.
[14:21] <persia> joejaxx: Do you need some work to do?
[14:21] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: i do not think i am lol
[14:21] <joejaxx> they only things i have been doing is merges and fixing spellng errors in pacages
[14:22] <joejaxx> oh and two new uploads
[14:22] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: how's fluxbuntu going?
[14:22] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: it is going ok
[14:22] <RainCT> hi
[14:23] <joejaxx> hi
[14:23] <RainCT> where can I read about get-orig-source?
[14:23] <persia> RainCT: Hi.
[14:23] <joejaxx> s/pacages/packages/g
[14:23] <persia> RainCT: Best source of information is Debian policy & the Common Mistakes: changing the original tarball section of the packaging guide
[14:24] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you need more sleep
[14:24]  * Hobbsee fixes REVU properly
[14:24] <persia> joejaxx: Would you like to try your hand at patch review?  We get lots of patches from users that need to be tested and wrapped in debdiffs.
[14:24] <joejaxx> persia: ok
[14:25] <Hobbsee> Ubulette: keysync finished, and upload processed
[14:25] <LucidFox> What is the correct version to obtain the upstream version number in debian/rules?
[14:25] <Ubulette> Hobbsee, thx. done
[14:25] <LucidFox> Debian uses: SOURCE_VERSION = $(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | egrep '^Version' | egrep -o '[0-9][^-]+')
[14:25] <persia> joejaxx: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=patch has a list of about 100 submitted patches to select from
[14:26] <joejaxx> ok
[14:26] <persia> LucidFox: There's lots of different ways.  That one works.
[14:27] <persia> LucidFox: I tend to use `head -1 debian/changelog | sed s/.*\(.*\)/*/\1/`, but that's not better.
[14:28] <joejaxx> has anyone noticed someone spamming bug reports?
[14:29]  * persia has
[14:29] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: who's spamming?
[14:29] <joejaxx> a mirceade on lp
[14:30] <Hobbsee> reported it to #launchpad yet?
[14:31] <joejaxx> well it happened on the 20th but he is putting the same post on each bug
[14:31] <Ubulette> ahh   http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=prism
[14:33] <joejaxx> for example
[14:33] <joejaxx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/51991/comments/71
[14:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 51991 in xorg "Xorg process freezes, uses 100% of CPU. Can be killed by remote terminal." [Critical,Confirmed]
[14:34] <joejaxx> oh fun i should do the openoffice patches :P
[14:34] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: reported, hopefully kiko will see it
[14:35]  * Hobbsee notes that what she was about to say is probably in poor taste
[14:37] <persia> That's less bad than mine (which I wouldn't be able to find again easily).  Mine was advertising someone's private CDs on an unrelated bug report.
[14:38] <zejosh> Hi, i'm attempting to download NVU, but I cannot find it in my reposotories, or the library files needed in the reposotories.
[14:38] <joejaxx> persia: lol
[14:38] <joejaxx> i thought nvu was merged into another project
[14:38] <persia> zejosh: nvu was dropped after edgy: I'll get you a reason in a moment.
[14:38] <wraund> thats weird
[14:39] <wraund> i have it installed on my machine :S
[14:39] <persia> wraund: The uninstall wasn't forced, but it's not supported anymore.
[14:39] <joejaxx> wraund: maybe you upgraded from edgy? :)
[14:39] <zejosh> Ok, Is there a dreamweaver equivalent on Xubuntu 7.10?
[14:39] <wraund> joejaxx: come to think of it i did :P
[14:40] <joejaxx> wraund: :P
[14:40] <zejosh> I Need it for html authing & ftp publishing
[14:40] <wraund> joejaxx: lol i remember the upgrade troubles from edgy to feisty :PD
[14:40] <persia> Debian bug #393065
[14:40] <ubotu> Debian bug 393065 in ftp.debian.org "RM: nvu -- RoM; abandoned upstream" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/393065
[14:40] <joejaxx> wraund: :P i have upgraded from dapper to gutsy before lol that was fun
[14:41] <wraund> joejaxx: must have taken a while
[14:42] <effie_jayx> joejaxx,  straight?
[14:42] <effie_jayx> from dapper to gutsy?
[14:43] <joejaxx> effie_jayx: yeap
[14:43] <effie_jayx> no edgy»feisty»gutsy
[14:43] <joejaxx> no
[14:43] <effie_jayx> joejaxx,  how was it... ?
[14:43] <joejaxx> it worked for me
[14:43] <joejaxx> but this was when gutsy was in alpha still
[14:44] <joejaxx> i really should be testing that again along with my lts -> lts tests
[14:47] <effie_jayx> joejaxx,  well I still have dapper on a box
[14:47] <effie_jayx> so I might test later
[14:47] <joejaxx> nice
[14:47] <joejaxx> :)
[14:48] <zejosh> Is there a way to get Adobe programs onto Xubuntu 7.10?
[14:50] <Hobbsee> no
[14:50] <Hobbsee> er, unless you wish to use medibuntu, and violate adobe's licence (acrobat, at least)
[14:52]  * persia notes that it may be possible to use things directly from Adobe as well, but that this is completely unsupported, and that this is not a support channel
[14:55] <Hobbsee> ahhh, so that's where my extra battery life went
[14:57] <Ubulette> anyone willing to review prism ?
[14:59] <persia> Ubulette: I was just heading off, but what's the URL?
[14:59] <Ubulette> persia, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=prism
[15:01]  * Hobbsee wonders what hte command was to check the battery stats is.  acpitool or something?
[15:01] <Hobbsee> like, how far it charged last time
[15:01] <Hobbsee> searching isnt helping me :(
[15:04] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: cat AFAIK
[15:04] <Hobbsee> it was hdparm or acpi or something, wiht a switch, and i think it was jdong who originally told me.
[15:05] <Hobbsee> and i cant find it :(
[15:05] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state
[15:05] <Hobbsee> Nafallo: useful, but it wasnt that - had info about the % of original charge it was, etc.
[15:06] <Nafallo> Hobbsee: s/state/info/ ? :_0
[15:06] <Nafallo> :-) even
[15:06] <LucidFox> persia> that version-acquiring method doesn't work with -XubuntuY
[15:07] <persia> LucidFox: which method?
[15:07] <LucidFox> dpkg-parsechangelog | egrep '^Version' | egrep -o '[0-9][^-]+'
[15:09] <LucidFox> ah, wait... it outputs two lines, so it's sufficient to just add "| head -n 1"
[15:09] <Ubulette> i do:
[15:09] <Ubulette> DEBIAN_VERSION := $(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | sed -n 's/^Version: *\(.*\)$$/\1/ p')
[15:09] <Ubulette> DEBIAN_UPSTREAM_VERSION := $(shell echo $(DEBIAN_VERSION) | sed 's/^\(.*\)-[^-]*$$/\1/')
[15:11] <Hobbsee> Nafallo: not the same, but good enough
[15:11] <Nafallo> :-)
[15:12] <Nafallo> I'm one of those who is against installing unneccessary software  ;-)
[15:13] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: acpi -b
[15:14] <Hobbsee> now, every once in a while, it's worth grepping irc. logs.  it was  acpitool -B
[15:14] <Hobbsee> joejaxx: found that one already
[15:14] <joejaxx> oh ok
[15:14] <Hobbsee>     Last full capacity : 3019 mAh, 62.90% of design capacity
[15:14] <Hobbsee>     Capacity loss      : 37.10%
[15:14] <jdong> lastlog jdong
[15:14] <jdong> grr
[15:17] <persia> Ubulette: some comments added to start.  There's likely more, but I'm to bed, and there's enough there for another revision.
[15:17] <Ubulette> persia, ok, thanks. I'll read that
[15:31] <Ubulette> "Please use the get-prig-source: rule, rather than get-orig: as documented in debian policy " ?? eh ? get-prig-source ?
[15:31] <Ubulette> prig ?
[15:33] <joejaxx> Ubulette: orig
[15:33] <joejaxx> oh wait
[15:33] <joejaxx> nevermind
[15:33] <Ubulette> maybe yes, get-orig-source
[15:33] <joejaxx> looks like a typo
[15:34] <proppy> how can I check a package version in hardy ?
[15:34] <proppy> packages.ubuntu.com doesn't list (yet) hardy
[15:34] <proppy> (let's try LP)
[15:35] <proppy> geser: ping
[15:35] <geser> proppy: pong
[15:35] <proppy> geser: you seem to be the one who uploaded openscenegraph to gutsy
[15:36] <proppy> Is that ok if I will a backport request of 2.0 ?
[15:36] <proppy> oups 2.2
[15:37] <geser> proppy: sure, I only uploaded for a rebuild
[15:38] <geser> proppy: for version check you can use rmadison (devscripts) or packages.ubuntu.com (it lists hardy)
[15:41] <proppy> geser: bug #165009
[15:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165009 in gutsy-backports "Please backport openscenegraph 2.2.0-2 from hardy to gutsy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165009
[15:41] <proppy> does this seems a good backport request to you
[15:41] <proppy> ?
[15:44] <geser> proppy: I've no experience with backports (and as I don't use openscenegraph I can't comment if it's ok to backport 2.2 either)
[15:45] <proppy> I use openscenegraph and 2.2 introduce a lot of new feature
[15:46] <proppy> I should have requested a sync before gutsy :)
[15:46] <geser> proppy: iirc jdong is our backports master, so ask him about the backports
[15:46] <proppy> jdong: ping
[15:47] <proppy> geser: thanks
[15:50] <proppy> jdong: context is requesting a backport for a library, with a major version change, is to be acked or not ?
[15:51] <proppy> jdong: is there a procedure to get the library updated in the current release ? or should we wait for the next one ?
[17:45] <LaserRock> oh, man, I thought my laptop just died
[17:45] <LaserRock> seriously uncool
[18:28] <somerville32> If Java wasn't so slow, I would love it.
[18:29] <pheature> notification-daemon was not added to the recommended list of either xchat or libnotify-bin, whom should i talk to?
[18:31] <LaserJock> somerville32: you find it slow?
[18:32] <somerville32> LaserJock, I have a 333mhz remember :P
[18:32] <LaserJock> seems like I've read something that said it was faster than Python
[18:32] <somerville32> I think the issue is Swing, TBH
[18:32] <somerville32> Java isn't that slow
[18:32] <LaserJock> though benchmarks are a bit like opinions, everybody has one and they don't mean a darn thing
[18:35] <LaserJock> anybody have any good suggestions for determining if a hard drive is dying?
[18:40] <imbrandon> LaserJock: is it S.M.A.R.T. capable
[18:40] <LaserJock> yes
[18:41] <artm> hi. I'm following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU and next thing i have to do is "ask the REVU admins in #ubuntu-motu to re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring".
[18:41] <imbrandon> LaserJock: make sure smart is enabled and use the smart tool then i would say
[18:41] <artm> which is what i'm doing like
[18:42] <imbrandon> artm: ok give me a minute , i'll announce when its finished ( eta ~15 minutes )
[18:42] <artm> imbrandon: thanks
[18:44] <imbrandon> LaserJock: aka smartctl iirc
[18:58] <pheature> notification-daemon was not added to the recommended list of either xchat or libnotify-bin, whom should i talk to?
[19:10] <superm1> pheature, file a bug against both of those packages
[19:20] <pheature> superm1: url, please?
[19:21] <superm1> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xchat/+filebug
[19:21] <pheature> thanks
[19:21] <superm1> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnotify
[19:27] <imbrandon> artm: sorry for the delay, key finished syncing
[19:30] <Ubulette> do I need to bump the version of my package to post an update in REVU (following comments from reviewers)?
[19:30] <imbrandon> Ubulette: no
[19:30] <imbrandon> Ubulette: infact the versioning on REVU should always match what you would like to be in the archive,and shouldent change
[19:30] <Ubulette> imbrandon, ok. thanks
[19:33] <artm> imbrandon: no problem, thanks
[20:14] <RainC1> what was the command to see which ubuntu version is installed?
[20:15] <slangasek> lsb_release -r
[20:16] <xhaker> today's revu day?
[20:17] <xhaker> 's as in is
[20:18] <RainCT> slangasek: thanks
[20:24] <imbrandon> xhaker: it will be soon :)
[20:31] <xhaker> pochu, thanks for the comments on the eclipse merge
[20:32] <xhaker> imbrandon, so it'd be.. 26th
[20:32] <pochu> xhaker: if they had been useful at least... :)
[21:02] <Kmos> can someone check if debdiff is ok? bug 164426
[21:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164426 in straw "Please merge straw 0.27-0.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164426
[21:07] <Kmos> +	dh_install debian/gcx.desktop usr/share/applications
[21:07] <Kmos> +	dh_install debian/gcx.svg usr/share/pixmaps
[21:07] <Kmos> +	dh_desktop
[21:07] <Kmos> this is correct?
[21:08] <Kmos> dh_desktop and dh_icons doesn't do these two dh_install ?
[21:10] <LaserJock> no
[21:10] <norsetto> kmos: no
[21:10] <LaserJock> dh_desktop and dh_icons doen't install files
[21:10] <Ubulette> persia, i've updated prism in revu a while ago, feel free to review my changes & comments
[21:10] <LaserJock> Kmos: there are a couple of whitespace changes in the changelog that would be good to get out
[21:11] <Kmos> LaserJock: i only do debdiff, don't know where they come from
[21:11] <Kmos> - and + with the same thing
[21:11] <Kmos> LaserJock: ah ok =)
[21:11] <Kmos> LaserJock: we need to handle them at .install file right ?
[21:12] <frenchy> Hi All, when I run lintian I get a "menu-item-uses-apps-section", so I tried to change the section from Apps/Viewers to Applications->Viewers but then it had a complain about an unknown section.
[21:12] <frenchy> /usr/share/doc/menu/menu.txt.gz tells me that Apps/Viewers is fine.
[21:12] <RainCT> hi
[21:12] <Kmos> frenchy: debian uses Applications, not Ubuntu.. i think =)
[21:12] <Kmos> RainCT: hey
[21:13] <LaserJock> Kmos: well or you can have the dh_install lines as you have
[21:13] <pochu> Kmos: we don't use the menu files at all :)
[21:13] <frenchy> Kmos: so you think that I might be able to ignore this hopefully.
[21:13] <soren> frenchy: pass -i to lintian, too, and everything will be much clearer.
[21:13] <Kmos> pochu :) only .desktop
[21:13] <pochu> yup :)
[21:14] <LaserJock> woah, hang on
[21:14] <frenchy> soren: Thanks
[21:14] <frenchy> LaserJock: Who's doing the hanging?
[21:14] <LaserJock> frenchy: what are you doing? a merge, new package?
[21:15] <Kmos> LaserJock: there is an option for debdiff to surpress these - + lines with the same thing? i haven't touched them
[21:15] <frenchy> LaserJock: A new package.
[21:15] <LaserJock> Kmos: bah, no, that is standard diff output, you should know that by now
[21:15] <LaserJock> Kmos: but you've changed whitespace in some of those lines, and it's nice to not mess around with other people's changelog entries
[21:16]  * pwnguin thinks if people spent half as much time talking about mentoring as they did actually mentoring, the problem would be solved...
[21:16] <LaserJock> frenchy: ok, then you shouldn't ignore that lintian error
[21:16] <LaserJock> pwnguin: to some degree yes for sure, but some people don't want to sign up for just anything
[21:16] <LaserJock> pwnguin: mentoring is a big commitment
[21:17] <Kmos> LaserJock: i will work on that :)
[21:17] <Amaranth> LaserJock: I prefer random acts of helpfulness
[21:17] <pochu> hey norsetto. slomo is actually mentoring me. would you mind updating that file?
[21:17] <norsetto> pochu: ah, thats good to know ....
[21:18] <Amaranth> But then I've got like 20,000 things to do so I don't have time to do more :)
[21:18] <pochu> he has been mentoring me for a long time btw :)
[21:18] <LaserJock> Amaranth: yes, some people prefer that, some people prefer long-term one-on-one learning
[21:18] <norsetto> pochu: since when?
[21:18] <pochu> norsetto: let me look at my first liferea upload :)
[21:18] <Amaranth> 2005? ;)
[21:19] <Kmos> LaserJock: i don't have that space in the kumar -+ at changelog..
[21:19] <Kmos> it's strange
[21:19] <frenchy> LaserJock: Thanks.
[21:19] <Kmos> LaserJock: http://pastebin.com/d4b1d3ca6
[21:19] <pochu> norsetto: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 was my first liferea upload, so more or less since then :)
[21:20] <LaserJock> frenchy: one sec and I'll see what you're supposed to have
[21:20] <Amaranth> huh
[21:20] <Amaranth> I feel old
[21:20] <norsetto> pochu: ok, thanks for correcting this. I assume you are still in touch with slomo?
[21:20] <frenchy> LaserJock: where do you see that from?  I need the teachers edition also.
[21:21] <Kmos> LaserJock: http://pastebin.com/d5506732c
[21:21] <pochu> norsetto: yup :)
[21:22] <norsetto> pochu: ok, I'm glad about that.
[21:22] <LaserJock> frenchy: in /usr/share/doc/menu/menu.txt.gz
[21:22] <Amaranth> my first upload: Published  on 2005-12-21
[21:22] <LaserJock> frenchy: ok so you want Applications/Viewers, right?
[21:22] <Amaranth> pochu: But I bet you've done more packaging than me :)
[21:23]  * RainCT wonders if he's the only one who hasn't 'menu' installed :P
[21:23] <frenchy> LaserJock: When I do that it complains about it having an unknown Section.
[21:23] <LaserJock> Kmos: are you wondering about the + and - in that?
[21:24] <Amaranth> RainCT: I wouldn't have it installed if I didn't need it to test a bug
[21:24] <LaserJock> frenchy: what OS/version are you using?
[21:24] <Amaranth> Isn't it going away in Debian anyway?
[21:24] <frenchy> LaserJock: Ubuntu, Gutsy.
[21:24] <LaserJock> frenchy: I don't think Gutsy has the latest menu changes
[21:24] <Kmos> LaserJock: yes.. why they appear in debdiff
[21:25] <frenchy> LaserJock: But I'm building for hardy ... maybe that's the issue.
[21:25] <LaserJock> Kmos: well, there are some in the changelog itself, which is just used for outlining
[21:25] <LaserJock> frenchy: yep
[21:25] <LaserJock> frenchy: so go with Applications
[21:25] <Kmos> LaserJock: so the debdiff is ok ?
[21:25] <LaserJock> Kmos: no
[21:26] <Kmos> -  * debian/pycompat: Set to 2
[21:26] <Kmos> +  * debian/pycompat: Set to 2
[21:26] <Kmos> don't understand why this
[21:26] <LaserJock> Kmos: there are the + and - used in the debdiff
[21:26] <RainCT> do you need the build dependencies to debuild -S a package?
[21:26] <frenchy> LaserJock: Thanks,
[21:26] <LaserJock> Kmos: yes, that's what I'm talking about
[21:26] <frenchy> .
[21:26] <norsetto> rainct: you might
[21:26] <Kmos> LaserJock: i've done again the debdiff, and checked my changelog first, and still reproduces the same thing
[21:26] <LaserJock> RainCT: no, that's source package
[21:27] <LaserJock> Kmos: right, somewhere along the line you have changed the whitespace (tabe or a space) of those lines
[21:27] <Kmos> LaserJock: i'll check it, thanks
[21:27] <RainCT> LaserJock, norsetto: thx
[21:27] <LaserJock> Kmos: you could also manually remove that part of the debdiff
[21:28] <Kmos> :)
[21:43] <Kmos> LaserJock: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10555568/straw_0.27-0.1ubuntu1.debdiff
[21:46] <pochu> Kmos: how's it going with straw maintainer?
[21:48] <Kmos> pochu: debian ?
[21:48] <pochu> Kmos: yep. the package was orphaned wasn't it?
[21:49] <Kmos> no.. kumar done a non maintainer upload
[21:49] <Kmos> i think he's a better maintainer for it :)
[21:49] <Kmos> or python team
[21:52] <pochu> Kmos: is it still orphaned?
[21:52] <Kmos> pochu: no.. he's still as maintainer and co-maintainer
[21:52] <Kmos> http://packages.qa.debian.org/straw
[21:53] <pochu> but still no work from him :/
[21:54] <Kmos> yeah
[21:54] <Kmos> :(
[21:56] <slangasek> can someone tell me where to find the merge-buildpackage script referenced in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging ?  I don't seem to have it, there's no mention of a package, and bash doesn't seem to look it up for me
[21:57] <lifeless> devscripts I thought
[21:58] <slangasek> not in the gutsy version
[21:58] <slangasek> there seems to be a split ubuntu-dev-tools package now where some Ubuntu-specific stuff has moved, but merge-buildpackage isn't there either
[21:58] <LaserJock> slangasek: it's from MoM
[21:59] <imbrandon> i think when you get a package via grab-merge.sh it also gets that script in the cwd
[21:59] <LaserJock> yep, what imbrandon said
[21:59] <slangasek> hrm, ok
[22:00] <lifeless> http://pastebin.com/m5e4b85d6
[22:00] <lifeless> google FTW
[22:00] <Kmos> can someone sponsor bug 164426 ?
[22:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164426 in straw "Please merge straw 0.27-0.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164426
[22:01] <Kmos> imbrandon: lists at ubuntuwire aren't working yet, right ?
[22:01] <imbrandon> Kmos: sure they are
[22:02] <imbrandon> just havent had any requests for new lists :)
[22:02] <slangasek> oh pff, that's all it does is set the -sa, -S, and -v options?
[22:02] <imbrandon> Kmos: btw did you subscribe u-u-s to the bug ? might get more attention that way
[22:02]  * slangasek moves along
[22:02] <Kmos> imbrandon: i subcribe it and didn't received any mail
[22:02] <LaserJock> slangasek: yeah
[22:03] <Kmos> imbrandon: yes
[22:03] <imbrandon> Kmos: to the users list ?
[22:03] <Kmos> imbrandon: yes
[22:03] <imbrandon> there isnt much traffic on it yet :)
[22:03] <Kmos> and is still empty, if i click in the archive
[22:03] <imbrandon> correct
[22:03] <Kmos> imbrandon: i do it today and last week
[22:03] <Kmos> don't receive me
[22:03] <Kmos> mail
[22:03] <imbrandon> let me check
[22:04] <Kmos> imbrandon: maybe you have it in manually
[22:04] <Kmos> and why no archive ?
[22:05] <imbrandon> no messages have been sent to the list yet ( still new )
[22:05] <imbrandon> are you @gmx.at ?
[22:07] <Kmos> nop
[22:07] <Kmos> @sapo.pt
[22:08] <imbrandon> k give me a few minutes to look into it, i know the admin@ list works, we use it ( almost ) daily
[22:53] <Kmos> imbrandon: any news?
[22:55] <imbrandon> Kmos: i'm on orko now fiddling with it
[23:02] <cyberix> Which team handles gettin new versions from Debian?
[23:02] <somerville32> This one for Universe
[23:03] <cyberix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnunet-gtk/+bug/163784
[23:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163784 in gnunet-gtk "0.7.2c for Hardy" [Undecided,New]
[23:03] <geser> !info gnunet-gtk hardy
[23:03] <ubotu> gnunet-gtk: GTK frontend to GNUnet. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.7.1c-2ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 213 kB, installed size 1004 kB
[23:04] <geser> hmm, ubotu seems to be not up-to-date
[23:05] <geser> gnunet-gtk | 0.7.2c-2ubuntu1 | hardy/universe | source
[23:05] <geser> cyberix: so it seems to be already in hardy
[23:05] <cyberix> odd
[23:06] <cyberix> packages.ubuntu.com isn't up-to-date either.
[23:07] <geser> ah, FTBFS
[23:07] <geser> cyberix: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/gnunet-gtk/+builds
[23:10] <cyberix> Well
[23:10] <cyberix> great