| === vorian is now known as vorian_afk | ||
| jjesse | i hate house problems :( | 00:54 |
|---|---|---|
| Jucato | aw? what happened? | 00:54 |
| Jucato | and good evening jjesse | 00:54 |
| jjesse | good morning Jucato | 00:54 |
| jjesse | we have a tree in the front yard and those tree roots have cracked the pipe that leads from the house to the sewer | 00:54 |
| jjesse | so whenever water is run it backs up into the house from the drain | 00:55 |
| jjesse | so we now have to get a new pipe run (which means paying somoene to dig up our front yard) | 00:55 |
| Jucato | oh... :/ | 00:58 |
| jjesse | yeah booo | 00:59 |
| jjesse | i love it when you ask a question from a company about something on one of their web pages and they refer you back to that same web page | 01:02 |
| jjesse | that doesn't have the answer you need | 01:02 |
| Jucato | quality customer support :) | 01:03 |
| === vorian is now known as vorian_afk | ||
| Jucato | wow.. kde4 iso only finished downloading now?! :( | 04:30 |
| * stdin starts downloading... | 04:32 | |
| stdin | my body clock is severely messed up.... | 04:33 |
| Jucato | mine's totally screwed | 04:33 |
| stdin | I woke up at ~2am (it's 04:34) | 04:33 |
| stdin | and I slept for ~12 hours | 04:34 |
| stdin | even with several alarms going off... | 04:34 |
| Jucato | let's see... I usually get to sleep at around 3am... or sometimes 4am... wake up at around 8am... sleep again around 10am... up to 12noon... that was yesterday.. | 04:34 |
| Jucato | saturday to sunday I only slept a total of 6 hours... including naps | 04:35 |
| Hobbsee | bad Jucato. you're taking after me, i see. | 04:35 |
| Jucato | :) | 04:36 |
| stdin | hmm, "[22:49] <blendtux> stdin: how much is a default kernel loaded in the ram" < why do these people ask ME these things... | 04:36 |
| Jucato | because you know everything duh! | 04:37 |
| stdin | but, why not ask the channel? | 04:37 |
| stdin | and I don't really know the answer, I'd guess all of it tho | 04:38 |
| * nixternal loves valgrind! | 05:49 | |
| * Jucato loves nixternal | 05:49 | |
| Jucato | in a fraternal way :) | 05:49 |
| nixternal | hahaha | 05:49 |
| nixternal | nice try | 05:49 |
| Jucato | what? O.o | 05:50 |
| nixternal | not to shabby....only took me a few hours to complete a class implementation...and I had one hang up that was blatent, but I couldn't see it | 05:50 |
| nixternal | private: | 05:50 |
| nixternal | int maxIndex; | 05:50 |
| nixternal | and then later in a member function I had | 05:50 |
| nixternal | int max = maxIndex; | 05:50 |
| nixternal | :) that won't work | 05:50 |
| Hobbsee | no, it wont :P | 05:51 |
| * Jucato scratches his head... | 05:51 | |
| nixternal | if it was java it would of worked :) | 05:51 |
| nixternal | Jucato: maxIndex wasn't implemented | 05:51 |
| nixternal | if I had 'int maxIndex = 0;' then it would have worked | 05:51 |
| Jucato | oh... I thought it would have been initialized through the constructor :) | 05:51 |
| nixternal | not implemented, instantiated | 05:51 |
| nixternal | default constructor | 05:51 |
| Jucato | ah ok :) | 05:51 |
| Jucato | in that case :) | 05:52 |
| nixternal | I could still instantiate that way | 05:52 |
| Hobbsee | nixternal: oh, i was assuming you were trying to use a private variable, out of scope. | 05:52 |
| * Jucato headdesks until bled dry | 05:52 | |
| Jucato | lol! different views :) | 05:52 |
| nixternal | Hobbsee: if my findMaxIndex() was public, then you would be correct | 05:52 |
| nixternal | findMaxIndex() was private as well | 05:52 |
| Hobbsee | oh right | 05:52 |
| * Hobbsee wonders why | 05:52 | |
| * nixternal too | 05:52 | |
| nixternal | but that is the way the class was designed | 05:53 |
| Hobbsee | erm, if findMaxIndex() was part of teh class, you could use the private variable. | 05:53 |
| Hobbsee | with it public | 05:53 |
| nixternal | if I used an accessor/mutator, then yes | 05:53 |
| nixternal | but this class has none | 05:53 |
| nixternal | err, ya, dunno what I was just thinkin'...it was a lonely little butterfly of an int | 05:54 |
| nixternal | nonetheless, totally forgot to instantiate the lil bugger | 05:54 |
| nixternal | valgrind came to the rescue...because it would still build fine, but it would seg fault | 05:54 |
| nixternal | seg fault due to maxIndex being null | 05:55 |
| * Jucato thinks his c++-foo doesn't even come close to average if he couldn't grok this... | 06:00 | |
| * Hobbsee thinks it would be more helpful with the code | 06:02 | |
| Hobbsee | you can still change private variables from the public function - you just cant change the private varialbe directly | 06:02 |
| * Jucato thinks he's pretty dense today... | 06:03 | |
| stdin | kde4 live is quicker than I'd have thought :) | 06:48 |
| stdin | even if I did have to get a wired connection and edit the sources.list to enabel restricted then install l-r-m | 06:48 |
| * Jucato would love to have tested it on a real CD... | 06:49 | |
| Jucato | alas no blanks... | 06:49 |
| stdin | I used a DVD | 06:50 |
| stdin | no blank CDs | 06:50 |
| stdin | (my mother stole them all) | 06:50 |
| Jucato | no blanks. period. | 06:51 |
| Jucato | not even blank bullets... :/ | 06:51 |
| stdin | virtualbox/vmware/qemu ? | 06:51 |
| Jucato | vbox | 06:52 |
| stdin | took a while to load for me in vbox | 06:52 |
| stdin | *a long while | 06:52 |
| Jucato | long while | 06:52 |
| Jucato | yeah. I fell asleep | 06:52 |
| Jucato | j/k | 06:52 |
| Jucato | it looks different too... | 06:53 |
| Jucato | uploading screenshot | 06:53 |
| Jucato | http://jucato.org/stuff/kde4/kde4live.png | 06:56 |
| yuriy | Jucato: what's with the windeco glitchiness? | 06:57 |
| Jucato | vbox :) | 06:57 |
| Jucato | although I doubt vbox had anything to do with the Task Manager plasmoid's location :) | 06:58 |
| Jucato | wow so many KDE4 apps installed :) | 07:01 |
| stdin | bg | 07:05 |
| stdin | kwin --replace | 07:05 |
| * Jucato just closed it... :P | 07:06 | |
| stdin | damn | 07:06 |
| stdin | :p | 07:06 |
| Jucato | but so far so good. the ISO works :) | 07:06 |
| stdin | well, I got kwin composite going :) | 07:07 |
| Jucato | something I can't do in vbox :) | 07:07 |
| Serega | morning, all | 07:14 |
| stdin | wow, only 3 crashes so far :) kwin: 1, kontify4: 2 | 07:19 |
| Jucato | yeah knotify | 07:19 |
| stdin | those were the 2 things i expected to crash | 07:20 |
| stdin | kwin after I enabled composite anywat | 07:20 |
| stdin | *anyway | 07:20 |
| Jucato | although I haven't experienced kwin crashing yet on my lappy (from svn) | 07:20 |
| stdin | mine crashed just as it enabled composite, that why you saw my try to restart it before | 07:21 |
| stdin | time to reboot back in to kde3 | 07:26 |
| === \sh_away is now known as \sh | ||
| sebastian^ | good morning folks | 08:46 |
| Riddell | hi sebastian^ | 09:21 |
| sebastian^ | :) | 09:40 |
| === Shely is now known as MJ086 | ||
| === Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee | ||
| mikkael | what is the approbiate status for this bug ? invalid ? | 12:19 |
| mikkael | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-style-qtcurve/+bug/135847 | 12:19 |
| ubotu | Launchpad bug 135847 in kde-style-qtcurve "kde style qtcurve doesnt apply changes" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 12:19 |
| Hobbsee | mikkael: yeah, i would | 12:21 |
| * Jucato waves | 12:21 | |
| mikkael | is i right, that his ".config" folder should be owned by user ? | 12:21 |
| Hobbsee | yes | 12:21 |
| kwwii | if it is in your home, yes | 12:22 |
| === meduxa is now known as toscalix | ||
| mikkael | ah good | 12:22 |
| kwwii | and it sounds like an invalid bug which relates to an alpha, judging by your comment | 12:22 |
| mikkael | for me it was a valid bug until 10 minutes ago :D | 12:23 |
| mikkael | what's the package that contains the trash icon on kicker ? | 12:25 |
| Jucato | right-click on the panel -> Add Applet to Panel -> Trash? | 12:30 |
| mikkael | i mean whats the package to report a bug | 12:31 |
| Jucato | kicker (or kdebase) | 12:32 |
| mikkael | if i want to open the trash folder via this icon i get "malformed url: trash:/" error if dolphin is my file-manager | 12:33 |
| mikkael | on a default gutsy install, with dolphin as filemanager..is the trash opened with konqueror or dolphin ? | 12:37 |
| * Jucato fires up vbox | 12:37 | |
| Jucato | mikkael: dolphin | 12:39 |
| mikkael | uh oh, then again something wrong on my install :( | 12:39 |
| stdin | mikkael: seems to work here | 12:40 |
| mikkael | well google shows a lot of results if i search for that error-message..ill try to fix this | 12:42 |
| mikkael | thanks, you saved lp from another invalid bug ;) | 12:42 |
| stdin | I remember it not working during the pre-releases of gutsy, but that got fixed afaik | 12:43 |
| mikkael | my install is from august.. | 12:44 |
| stdin | my install is from about september | 12:45 |
| Jucato | mine is last month. beat that! :P | 12:46 |
| stdin | fine! i'll reinstall now :p | 12:46 |
| mikkael | stdin: how about adding amarok2 to you ppa ? | 12:49 |
| stdin | mikkael: it won't build | 12:49 |
| mikkael | oh ok | 12:49 |
| stdin | that's the only problem :p | 12:49 |
| stdin | I tried getting a more recent snapshot, but that failed miserably too | 12:50 |
| mikkael | ok, gotta go, have a nice day guys and girls | 12:50 |
| mhb | hello | 13:16 |
| * Hobbsee waves | 13:21 | |
| * Jucato waves too | 13:22 | |
| stdin | now, why isn't poppler backported? | 13:25 |
| Hobbsee | ....................... | 13:26 |
| Hobbsee | @lart stdin | 13:26 |
| stdin | well I needed to backport it to build... something? but it's not in -backports | 13:26 |
| Hobbsee | stdin: um...um...what do you need it for? | 13:26 |
| stdin | and it makes my "revert to -backports" script go "BOOM" | 13:27 |
| stdin | *with out it backported | 13:27 |
| Hobbsee | backporting poppler will tend to make it go boom, too | 13:27 |
| Hobbsee | assuming it's an api change, which it almost always is, iirc | 13:27 |
| stdin | I think I needed it for kdebase-kde4 | 13:27 |
| Hobbsee | oh, do you just need libpoppler-qt4-2 ? | 13:28 |
| stdin | not sure, i needed it for something (fuzzy memory) when building kde4 in my ppa | 13:29 |
| stdin | either kdebase-kde4 or kde4libs | 13:30 |
| Hobbsee | sarah@LongPointyStick:~% rdepends libpoppler2 | wc -l 12:29AM | 13:30 |
| Hobbsee | 19 | 13:30 |
| stdin | doesn't count build-deps does it.. | 13:30 |
| stdin | it's fancy grep time | 13:30 |
| Hobbsee | no, that's why i searched for the binary lib, not the -dev package - and made the assumption that all the packages involved did shlibs correctly. | 13:31 |
| Hobbsee | sarah@LongPointyStick:~% rbuildepend libpoppler-qt4-dev | wc -l 12:31AM | 13:31 |
| Hobbsee | 8 | 13:31 |
| Hobbsee | i'd say ti's that that you need | 13:31 |
| Hobbsee | sarah@LongPointyStick:~% rbuildepend libpoppler-dev | wc -l 12:31AM | 13:32 |
| Hobbsee | 18 | 13:32 |
| Hobbsee | sarah@Lo | 13:32 |
| stdin | I think it's kdegraphics-kde4 and/or koffice actually | 13:32 |
| stdin | grep -C5 "poppler" /var/lib/apt/lists/ppa.launchpad.net_tsimpson_ubuntu_dists_gutsy_main_source_Sources |grep "Package:" | 13:32 |
| Hobbsee | sarah@LongPointyStick:~% rbuildepend libpoppler-qt4-dev 12:31AM | 13:32 |
| Hobbsee | kde4graphics | 13:32 |
| Hobbsee | kdegraphics-kde4 | 13:32 |
| Hobbsee | koffice2 | 13:32 |
| Hobbsee | okular | 13:32 |
| Hobbsee | kde4graphics | 13:32 |
| Hobbsee | kdegraphics-kde4 | 13:33 |
| Hobbsee | koffice2 | 13:33 |
| Hobbsee | okular | 13:33 |
| Hobbsee | you have a strange way of doing things :) | 13:33 |
| * stdin is tempted to do "!paste | Hobbsee", but fear the stick too much | 13:33 | |
| Hobbsee | howzat? | 13:34 |
| stdin | that'll do :) | 13:34 |
| stdin | yeah, kdegraphics-kde4 build-deps libpoppler-qt-dev (>= 0.6.1-1) | 13:35 |
| stdin | and 0.6-0ubuntu2.1 is in -updates | 13:35 |
| Hobbsee | then i think you'll need to backport everything that depends on it. | 13:35 |
| Hobbsee | or build depends | 13:36 |
| Hobbsee | and test it | 13:36 |
| Hobbsee | either way, it's a mighty big backport | 13:36 |
| stdin | it'll be needed if you want kdegraphics-kde4 in gutsy-backports/universe | 13:36 |
| mhb | one thing is certain ... ast is a good speaker - makes one really unhappy about the state of bloat in current software | 13:37 |
| stdin | I've had the new poppler installed for a while and haven't noticed any breakage anyway (doesn't mean there isn't any, just that I haven't seen any) | 13:37 |
| Hobbsee | jdong might have smoked enough crack to take it...but.... | 13:37 |
| _buz | stdin: i've found it to be much faster | 13:39 |
| _buz | now pages render near instantly in kpdf | 13:39 |
| _buz | whatever you did to it, its appreciated :P | 13:40 |
| stdin | just got the package from hardy and built it against gutsy :) | 13:40 |
| Hobbsee | stdin: then again, this is backports. | 13:40 |
| Hobbsee | but, it's also ubuntu's reputation | 13:40 |
| Hobbsee | tough call. | 13:40 |
| stdin | Hobbsee: I know my ppa isn't any comparison to the ubuntu archive | 13:41 |
| stdin | also everyone who has kde4 from my ppa has the new poppler anyway | 13:42 |
| Hobbsee | stdin: it's not the kde stuff that i'm worried about | 13:42 |
| Hobbsee | it's the fact that who knows about gnome, etc, stuff, which people who are testing your ppa likely arent using | 13:42 |
| stdin | yeah, true | 13:42 |
| Hobbsee | if evince breaks with the new poppler, your KDE 4 people are extremely unlikely to test it :) | 13:43 |
| Hobbsee | yet, oh crap, you've just broken it for anyone running backports running gnome. "whoops" | 13:43 |
| stdin | I doubt "whoops" will be the exact response :p | 13:44 |
| Hobbsee | well, true :{P | 13:44 |
| ScottK | No, the exact response is something like "Backports aren't enabled by default for a reason." | 13:48 |
| Hobbsee | *snort* | 13:49 |
| Hobbsee | well... | 13:49 |
| stdin | they do say "unsupported updates", but not "enable this and have to reinstall" | 13:50 |
| Jucato | coz that would be "stdin's PPA"... | 13:50 |
| * Jucato runs and hides | 13:50 | |
| Jucato | Hobbsee: you snorted again? O.o | 13:50 |
| mhb | kind of makes you look sceptically on all those new ultra-complex projects. | 13:50 |
| Jucato | hi mhb | 13:51 |
| mhb | hi Jucato | 13:51 |
| stdin | Jucato: nah, my ppa has "enable this and get a svn version of konversation, a broken smplayer and a shiny new QtCurve" :p | 13:51 |
| stdin | KDE4 was just a bonus :) | 13:51 |
| * ScottK once worked on a project where we spent almost 2 years simplifying the design to the simplest, minimal solution we could come up with. | 13:51 | |
| Jucato | "and break your system" :D | 13:51 |
| stdin | only if you don't remove kde4base-data | 13:52 |
| mhb | ScottK: and the result? | 13:52 |
| ScottK | Worked better than anyone expected when fielded. | 13:52 |
| ScottK | We also got some "You spent two years in design and all you changed was ..." | 13:52 |
| mhb | :o) | 13:52 |
| ScottK | My response was along the lines of, "Yeah, it was really hard to figure out how to change so little." | 13:53 |
| ScottK | Of course I've also been caught figuring out how to do things that get 80% of the benifit at 5% the costs too. | 13:54 |
| mhb | ScottK: that is what I thought | 13:56 |
| mhb | we really should be trying to do things simple | 13:56 |
| ScottK | It's hard though. | 13:56 |
| mhb | people said that Adept was too complex, and we will soon be replacing it with something twice (or more) as complex, with DBus dependencies and more | 13:57 |
| ScottK | A good exercise is to try to add a feature to a program at a net zero SLOC count change. | 13:57 |
| * ScottK has personally already replaced Adept with Apt. | 13:58 | |
| mhb | me too | 13:58 |
| mhb | actually, I was wondering whether we need a package manager | 13:58 |
| ScottK | We do, but it should be far lighter than Adept, I'd say. | 13:59 |
| Hobbsee | we should use an automatix-equivalent | 13:59 |
| mhb | you could have a nice web app doing all the searching and other stuff | 14:00 |
| mhb | if you have no internet, you use gdebi then, I guess | 14:00 |
| * ScottK boggles at nice being right next to web app. | 14:00 | |
| mhb | :o) | 14:00 |
| ScottK | But of course, I'm old and cranky, so I like my programs and my data on my actual computer. | 14:01 |
| mhb | me too | 14:01 |
| mhb | but I like googling, too | 14:02 |
| mhb | googling a package, clicking on it, see it install... | 14:02 |
| mhb | and when you are old and cranky, you would use apt-get which you have on your machine nonetheless | 14:03 |
| * ScottK shudders at actually installing code found via Google without looking at it. | 14:04 | |
| mhb | I still think adept manager lacks a target group | 14:04 |
| mhb | ScottK: installation could be done via apt like it still is | 14:04 |
| mhb | ScottK: you just find the package via the internet, the installation will be done by a nicer version of adept batch | 14:05 |
| ScottK | Right. It's the install random code found somewhere out there I shudder at. | 14:05 |
| mhb | ScottK: which will not happen in this scenario | 14:06 |
| ScottK | OK. I guess I misunderstood "[09:02] <mhb> googling a package, clicking on it, see it install..." | 14:06 |
| * Jucato thought Tonio_ was working on kio-apt for that? | 14:07 | |
| mhb | he already did it | 14:07 |
| mhb | the framework is all in place, basically | 14:08 |
| mhb | all we would need is just do a nice official search engine for packages and then dump graphical package management once and for all | 14:08 |
| * Jucato would disagree w/ the last part though.. but since he doesn't code, doesn't have a right to say | 14:09 | |
| mhb | Jucato: what do you mean? | 14:09 |
| Jucato | if by "dump graphical package management'" you mean dropping a standalone package manager app. | 14:10 |
| mhb | Jucato: yes, by dump graphical package management I mean dropping everything except gdebi and adept_batch | 14:11 |
| mhb | Jucato: please tell me who and why would need it | 14:11 |
| mhb | Jucato: my idea surely can be flawed | 14:11 |
| Jucato | it's just me. don't worry about it :) | 14:12 |
| Jucato | don't have stats or user feedback to back it up. | 14:12 |
| mhb | Jucato: just give me an example | 14:13 |
| mhb | Jucato: basic users would browse the web, it is perhaps even easier for them than the current way | 14:13 |
| mhb | Jucato: and I guess more intuitive | 14:13 |
| mhb | Jucato: advanced users like me stick to apt-get | 14:13 |
| Jucato | I don't know... that really sounds easy for installing (and browsing) packages. but besides installing? | 14:14 |
| Jucato | it would probably really be more intuitive though for users coming from Windows-land, where they'd use a web browser to look for packages and then download those and install them | 14:16 |
| mhb | hmm, I wonder how often basic users remove packages | 14:16 |
| mhb | I mean surely they remove apps | 14:16 |
| mhb | and they perhaps fancy autoremoving | 14:16 |
| mhb | but besides this? | 14:17 |
| mhb | libraries? | 14:17 |
| ScottK | mhb: This may be a good spec for Hardy +1. Not to soon to start thinking it through. | 14:18 |
| Jucato | just not sure.. despite the unlove for Adept, there are still quite a number of users who prefer to use a GUI package manager. and in the absence of a good KDE/Qt alternative, resort to Synaptic | 14:19 |
| ScottK | So make one that's lighter and faster. | 14:19 |
| mhb | indeed | 14:20 |
| mhb | but there are no plans of such a manager | 14:20 |
| mhb | only more complicated ones are on the horizon | 14:20 |
| ScottK | mhb: So make some. | 14:20 |
| Jucato | qt frontend to packagekit in the making? | 14:21 |
| * ScottK thinks not. | 14:21 | |
| Jucato | I mean, there's one in the making... not sure about it's status though | 14:21 |
| ScottK | There is? | 14:22 |
| Jucato | yeah | 14:22 |
| * ScottK thought it was just a Gnome thing. Not sure how it'd help anywhere else? | 14:22 | |
| mhb | ScottK: why? | 14:22 |
| mhb | ScottK: I mean - my solution will be very light | 14:22 |
| Jucato | packagekit is supposed to be a cross-desktop/distro package management system | 14:22 |
| mhb | ScottK: why should I make more? | 14:22 |
| Jucato | http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2007/11/13/qt-frontend-for-packagekit/ | 14:23 |
| ScottK | Jucato: For Gnome. | 14:23 |
| Jucato | er? | 14:23 |
| mhb | Jucato: packagekit will be complex by design | 14:23 |
| ScottK | That's what someone told me. At which point I quit caring. | 14:23 |
| Jucato | it doesn't have a GUI frontend | 14:23 |
| Jucato | afaik | 14:23 |
| Jucato | hm. ok... | 14:23 |
| ScottK | mhb: I agree with much of what you're saying, but not the web app bit. | 14:23 |
| Jucato | I might be wrong. so anyway | 14:23 |
| mhb | ScottK: server (web) apps are designed for indexing stuff... | 14:24 |
| mhb | ScottK: so search will take less time than it would take normally | 14:24 |
| mhb | ScottK: on my machine, on grammas machine, everywhere | 14:25 |
| ScottK | I can see creating a functional split where figuring out what package you want to install is a web thingy, but everything after that is a local app. | 14:25 |
| mhb | you will not download anything via web itself, you just find the package, everything else will be as secure as it is today | 14:25 |
| mhb | ScottK: of course | 14:26 |
| ScottK | OK. Sounds like we agree. | 14:26 |
| mhb | ScottK: the web app would be the equivalent of the user googling "sudo apt-get install package" | 14:27 |
| ScottK | +site:kubuntu,org | 14:28 |
| mhb | ScottK: adept_batch would handle the installation itself | 14:28 |
| mhb | advanced users would still prefer apt-get cmd line because it is the superior way of adminning stuff IMHO. | 14:29 |
| _buz | how would go about alternative repos with webapp | 14:29 |
| ScottK | _buz: Hopefully only after lots of warning. | 14:30 |
| ScottK | Really not our problem. | 14:30 |
| mhb | _buz: yeah, that is the only technological part that is not ready today... something like apt://repository/package could be done, but with warnings | 14:30 |
| _buz | sounds too much like linspire to me | 14:31 |
| ScottK | _buz: What sounds like Linspire? | 14:32 |
| _buz | webapp for packages | 14:32 |
| _buz | isnt that what linspire does | 14:32 |
| ScottK | You mean Click and Run? | 14:33 |
| _buz | yes | 14:33 |
| mhb | it may be similar, I am not saying that the idea is original | 14:33 |
| ScottK | It's main point is to get you proprietary software, so the intent we're discussing is completely different. | 14:33 |
| mhb | we already have the technology, opensuse has it, too | 14:33 |
| mhb | it is just the bold step with dropping the Add/Remove software and Adept Manager that is new | 14:34 |
| Jucato | totally radical change | 14:34 |
| mhb | we have seen that administering those apps was a PITA | 14:34 |
| mhb | nobody really cared for them | 14:34 |
| mhb | (devs, I mean) | 14:34 |
| mhb | and users were not really happy about them | 14:34 |
| Jucato | but doesn't that apply only to Adept? | 14:35 |
| Jucato | (unfortunately) | 14:35 |
| mhb | Jucato: hmm, other package managers are more polished, I am certain | 14:35 |
| ScottK | mhb: I'd say slap something together and get it in Universe for Hardy. If users like it, maybe the tide can be turned. | 14:35 |
| mhb | ScottK: heh, how many people out of this channel would care if there was a new package in universe? :o) | 14:36 |
| Jucato | I guess what I'm just saying that to drop the prospect of having any GUI package manager completely, just because of Adept, is a bit of a jump... oh well | 14:37 |
| Jucato | time to work. | 14:37 |
| mhb | ScottK: I can sit on my behind doing nothin, because the technology is there already | 14:37 |
| ScottK | mhb: If every time someone whined about Adept, people could reply "Here, try this instead..." then maybe it'd get momentum. | 14:37 |
| ScottK | mhb: What do I install to make it work then? | 14:37 |
| mhb | ScottK: kio-apt from Tonios repos, I think | 14:38 |
| Hobbsee | ScottK: review the thing in -motu please | 14:38 |
| mhb | I dont know whether he pushed it somewhere | 14:38 |
| ScottK | Hobbsee: There is no thing yet. | 14:38 |
| _buz | whatever happened to kpackage anyway | 14:38 |
| Hobbsee | ScottK: at :32? | 14:38 |
| ScottK | Right. We're discussing the idea of a light weight alternative to Adept. | 14:39 |
| mhb | ScottK: there is also another aspect, which I sometimes take too seriously, but it is definitely important, and that is publicity | 14:39 |
| Jucato | ScottK: lightweight would be an understatement I think :) | 14:39 |
| ScottK | mhb: True, but IME if you have a better mousetrap, people would notice. | 14:39 |
| mhb | ScottK: we already have the technology and we can have it working by Alpha 2 | 14:40 |
| ScottK | Great. When you have something that needs reviewed for upload, ping me on -motu and I'll take a break from my reviewing strike to look at it. | 14:41 |
| mhb | I guess for Hardy, having both around, but pushing the new one could be the goal | 14:41 |
| mhb | because it is LTS, after all | 14:41 |
| ScottK | Yes. No radical change for Hardy is the best way. | 14:41 |
| mhb | we can see if it catches on, and we will have Adept as failsafe ready | 14:41 |
| ScottK | Exactly. | 14:42 |
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| Lure | Riddell: what is going on with kdepim packages in hardy? | 19:12 |
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| jjesse | here's the fun i'm having today: http://www.flickr.com/photos/j0217995/sets/72157603315165637/ | 20:23 |
| ScottK | Yum | 20:25 |
| jjesse | yeah.... no water for 3 days :( | 20:25 |
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| mhb | evening | 21:02 |
| ScottK | mhb: Good evening. | 21:04 |
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| mhb | ScottK: the biggest flaw in my plan ATM is the way that the website "knows" whether the package is installed or not | 21:23 |
| ScottK | That'd definitely be tough. | 21:24 |
| mhb | yeah, I wonder how to do that as simply as possible | 21:26 |
| buz | easy, use an active-x control | 21:28 |
| buz | SCNR | 21:28 |
| mhb | buz: sure :o) | 21:29 |
| nosrednaekim | mhb: what are you making? | 21:30 |
| yuriy | mhb: from skimming the conversation yesterday, i thought the idea was something along the lines of kio-apt? | 21:31 |
| yuriy | (which i haven't tried) | 21:31 |
| mhb | yuriy: right, my idea was to create a package search web application which would be tied to kio-apt | 21:31 |
| yuriy | mhb: what do you mean by a web application though? would it be running locally? | 21:32 |
| nosrednaekim | mhb: how would it be different from kio-apt? | 21:32 |
| mhb | yuriy: think adept manager, but as a web app, with links to kio-apt | 21:33 |
| mhb | yuriy: well, not exactly kio-apt, more like the Firefox package installation system | 21:34 |
| mhb | yuriy: apt://thunderbird/ installs Thunderbird ... | 21:35 |
| nosrednaekim | oh... cool. | 21:35 |
| mhb | nosrednaekim: one - searching done remotely, faster searching on all computers | 21:35 |
| mhb | nosrednaekim: two - web content is really flexible, you cannot add icons, screenshots to the current Debian labeling system easily, you could do that on web pages | 21:37 |
| nosrednaekim | oh thats nice.... screenshots of the app :D | 21:37 |
| mhb | nosrednaekim: three - it is more multiplatform than whatever the PackageKit people come up with | 21:37 |
| nosrednaekim | haha.... figures thats what is behind it all :D | 21:38 |
| mhb | nosrednaekim: we already have most of the technology, OpenSUSE has it too and I am sure more distributions will have it in the future | 21:38 |
| ScottK | Actually getdeb (for all I think they aren't great packagers) have a decent web site for this kind of thing. | 21:39 |
| mhb | ScottK: good to know, I will check that | 21:39 |
| mhb | nosrednaekim: my aim would be to finally solve package management in Kubuntu for basic users | 21:41 |
| mhb | nosrednaekim: by "solve" I mean replace with something that is usable, simple, fast and maintainable | 21:41 |
| nosrednaekim | yeah. | 21:41 |
| nosrednaekim | I think klikit was trying to do something like this.. | 21:42 |
| mhb | nosrednaekim: what we need is simple package installation for the common users | 21:42 |
| mhb | nosrednaekim: powerusers should always stick to the command line, there is no point in providing graphical tools for them | 21:42 |
| mhb | (by default, that is) | 21:42 |
| nosrednaekim | I love synaptic, and I think I'm pretty much power-user defined. | 21:43 |
| nosrednaekim | Though in general I agree with you | 21:43 |
| nosrednaekim | adept is too complicated | 21:43 |
| ScottK | And slow | 21:43 |
| nosrednaekim | I wish we could just go with synaptic themes all qt-ish XD | 21:44 |
| mhb | nosrednaekim: sure, use what you like best, that is the open-source way. | 21:44 |
| nosrednaekim | yup.... but I will be interested in seeing what you turn out..your stuff is pretty good.. | 21:45 |
| ScottK | mhb: Make it simple, useable, and fast, and it'll be what people pick. | 21:45 |
| mhb | nosrednaekim: adept is too complex to my liking, and too complex usually means too slow. Although I try to be as unbiased to PackageKit as possible, you cannot really label it "simple". | 21:46 |
| mhb | ScottK: hmm, the getdeb.net engine is not open-source | 21:48 |
| buz | i think adept primarily is as slow because its python | 21:48 |
| mhb | buz: wrong, adept is pure C++ | 21:48 |
| buz | it is? | 21:48 |
| buz | well in any case, the ui sure is weir | 21:48 |
| buz | d | 21:48 |
| nosrednaekim | wish people would get it out of their heads that python is slow too <_< | 21:49 |
| ScottK | mhb: No. I was just refering to how it looked. I'd not recommend actually using any of their code even if it was available. | 21:49 |
| buz | nosrednaekim: depends on what youre doing | 21:49 |
| buz | if you start crunching data in pure python, it's not gonna be fast | 21:49 |
| mhb | true | 21:50 |
| buz | but if youre sane enough to use the lib properly, it can be quite fast | 21:50 |
| buz | and the code is a dream to read | 21:50 |
| mhb | unfortunately Python is one of the languages where your math computations take so much longer that you manage to write the C equivalent, compile it and finish it while the Python code runs | 21:50 |
| ScottK | Develop first and then opimize later anyway. | 21:51 |
| buz | usually i would agree | 21:51 |
| ScottK | mhb: True, but do the thing in Python and there optimize where needed. | 21:51 |
| buz | but i have seen projects where that went spectacularly wrong | 21:51 |
| buz | + | 21:52 |
| * ScottK worked on one project where it turned out DNS lookup latency made code optimization almost no help at all. | 21:52 | |
| buz | was that per chance reserve resolving httpd log cruncher? | 21:52 |
| mhb | hmm, I need advice from you experienced dpkg gurus ... does every user have the right to check whether a package is installed or not? | 21:53 |
| mhb | or is that restricted somehow? | 21:53 |
| buz | looks like that data is 644 root | 21:54 |
| apachelogger | aye, readable by everyone AFAIK | 21:54 |
| mhb | thanks | 21:54 |
| yuriy | mhb: so it would be run remotely? | 22:07 |
| mhb | yuriy: depends on what you mean | 22:09 |
| mhb | yuriy: package search? yes. | 22:10 |
| mhb | yuriy: package installation? no. | 22:10 |
| mhb | yuriy: think www.getdeb.net for package search, when you want an app you click "Install" and you will be redirected to an URL like apt://install/thunderbird, which will be processed by kio-apt | 22:14 |
| mhb | (adept_batch, specifically) | 22:14 |
| ScottK | Except it would install a real Ubuntu package and not the random stuff they actually provide. | 22:15 |
| mhb | right. | 22:15 |
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