[00:32] <glatzor> hello, I cannot commit any changes to my branch hosted at Launchpad anymore
[00:33] <glatzor> I always get the following error: No handlers could be found for logger "bzr"
[00:33] <glatzor> afterwards bzr hangs forever
[00:33] <glatzor>  bzr+ssh://glatzor@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Edisplayconfig-gtk/python-xrandr/main/
[00:34] <lifeless> glatzor: AIUI its actually pushing, unless you have hit ctrl-C, which actually breaks it
[00:34] <mwhudson> glatzor: or it might be locked
[00:34] <mwhudson> try sftp
[00:35] <glatzor> mwhudson: lifeless: I already made a break-lock
[00:35] <mwhudson> glatzor: but that's a bit erratic over bzr+ssh too :/
[00:36] <glatzor> this happened after I was asked for my ssh passphrase, but I was to busy to enter it immediately. entering it after some minutes resulted in this situation
[00:39] <glatzor> ok, using sftp is a workaround
[00:39] <glatzor> thanks
[00:49] <LaserJock> cprov-out: how long are you gonna be up?
[00:50] <cprov-out> LaserJock: dunno, 20 minutes or so
[00:52] <LaserJock> k, trying to get the source
[00:54] <LaserJock> cprov-out: hmm, where are you getting the source?
[00:54] <LaserJock> from what's on the PPA?
[00:54] <cprov-out> LaserJock: http://ppa.launchpad.net/schooltool-owners/ubuntu gutsy
[00:55] <LaserJock> ok
[00:55] <LaserJock> well, I found the source that they have on the schootool.org site too
[00:57] <LaserJock> hmm, that's some lovely packaging
[00:58] <cprov-out> LaserJock: do you suspect of something in the package itself ?
[01:01] <carlos> good night!
[01:03] <LaserJock> cprov-out: well, apt has been around for a long time ;-)
[01:03] <LaserJock> my first guess is always packaging
[01:03] <LaserJock> cprov-out: have you by chance reproduced it?
[01:03] <cprov-out> LaserJock: well, it could also be the indexes generated by LP :(
[01:04] <LaserJock> cprov-out: could be yes
[01:04] <cprov-out> yes, it's trying to update the package in my machine
[01:05] <cprov-out> LaserJock: do you know how to make apt *verbose* on its actions ?
[01:05] <LaserJock> cprov-out: do you think this could possibly be caused by the ogre-model crush?
[01:06] <LaserJock> like what happens if it gets confused about component? is that a possibility?
[01:07] <LaserJock> cprov-out: try apt-get -V
[01:09] <cprov-out> LaserJock: no luck
[01:13] <LaserJock> cprov-out: I'm trying it now as well
[01:22] <LaserJock> cprov-out: I just don't know dude
[01:22] <LaserJock> I don't see anything obvious
[01:23] <cprov-out> LaserJock: yes, me neither ... better go to bed and try this again tomorrow.
[01:23] <cprov-out> LaserJock: thanks for the help and g'night.
[01:23] <LaserJock> cprov-out: yeah, I gotta get home, I'll try to poke it again some and let you know if I figure anything out
[01:23] <cprov-zZz> LaserJock: great, thank you.
[02:21] <j1mc> hi all.  i'm getting an error when trying to push something to launchpad via bzr.   (http://pastebin.ca/798862) can anyone help?
[02:29] <Fujitsu> j1mc: You can't push over HTTP...
[02:30] <Fujitsu> You need to use sftp or bzr+ssh.
[02:31] <j1mc> Fujitsu: here's the command i'm using: bzr push bzr+ssh://jwcampbell@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/xubuntu-hardy
[02:32] <beuno> j1mc, did you do bzr unbind?
[02:33] <j1mc> beuno: i tried it.  it gave errors, too.  might it because i did a lightweight checkout?
[02:34] <beuno> j1mc, let's take this back to #bzr     <----    :D
[02:34] <j1mc> ok
[02:34] <Fujitsu> j1mc: You'll have to rebind. Just bind to bzr+ssh, etc.
[02:35] <Hobbsee> cprov-zZz: erm, why did i get subscribed to a spec that i cant read?  :)
[02:37] <j1mc> Fujitsu: pardon me, but how would i rebind?  i am new to bzr.
[02:37] <beuno> j1mc, maybe bzr bind bzr+ssh...?
[02:38] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: because you know if something going on with that something
[02:38] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: eparse?
[02:39] <j1mc> beuno: i'll try.  thx.
[02:39] <Hobbsee> oh, as in, i'll see when it's all done, or what it's general status is - just not how they're going to do it?
[02:39] <LaserJock> exactly
[03:00] <ubotu> New bug: #165322 in ubuntu "Launchpad bug reporting needs a 'me too' button (dup-of: 149775)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165322
[06:01] <jml> Hello hello
[06:01] <thumper> hello hello
[06:01] <jml> Shall we have a reviewer meeting?
[06:02] <thumper> lifeless may not be around for the meeting
[06:02] <jamesh> hello hello hello
[06:02] <thumper> and I am one handed as I'm eating dinner
[06:05] <jml> I feel that we've become stalled.
[06:05] <jml> Shall I run it then?
[06:05] <thumper> jml: go for it!
[06:05] <jml> = Meeting Starts =
[06:06] <jml> Welcome to the Launchpad Reviewer meeting!
[06:06] <jml> * Roll call
[06:06] <thumper> here
[06:06] <jml> BjornT, jamesh, jtv, lifeless: ping
[06:07] <BjornT> hi
[06:07] <jamesh> hi
[06:07] <thumper> and that's a quorum
[06:07] <jml> * Next meeting
[06:07] <jml> Same time next week, I assume.
[06:07] <jml> I'm happy to chair.
[06:07]  * thumper would really like it earlier
[06:07] <thumper> but then we'd have EU problems
[06:08] <thumper> I'll live
[06:08] <jml> OK.
[06:08] <jml> Nov 27+7, 0600 UTC
[06:08] <jml> * Action items
[06:08] <jml> I see there are two here for me
[06:09] <jml> jml, create a ReviewerMeetingTemplate wiki page similar to BazaarMeetingTemplate with template for minutes and instructions on preparing the email. 
[06:09] <jml>     *
[06:09] <jml>       jml to confirm that SteveA's email about using properties rather than no-arg functions on view classes is in a relevant checklist on wiki
[06:09] <jml> I'll get to those this week. Sorry about the delay.
[06:09] <jml> * Queue status
[06:09] <jml> How are your queues guys?
[06:10] <jamesh> I didn't get round to allocating reviews yesterday
[06:10] <thumper> mine is empty
[06:10] <thumper> except for one
[06:10] <jml> thumper: heh
[06:11] <jml> jamesh: I see you have a massive branch in your queue
[06:11] <thumper> well, visibly empty, but secretly not
[06:11] <jamesh> jml: which one?
[06:11] <thumper> SteveA's queue
[06:11] <jml> oh, I misread
[06:11] <jamesh> oh.  SteveA rubberstamped that
[06:12] <jml> I can't see anything else to comment on here. Let's move on.
[06:12] <jml> * Mentoring update
[06:12] <jml> Anyone here a mentor?
[06:12] <thumper> not me
[06:13] <jml> Moving on.
[06:13] <jml> * Review process changes
[06:13] <jml> Were these discussed at last week's meeting?
[06:13]  * thumper doesn't think so
[06:14] <jml> I don't feel qualified to chair a discussion on these without knowing what sort of outcome we are expecting from that discussion.
[06:15] <jml> You've got five seconds to say something :)
[06:15] <jml> Done.
[06:15] <jml> * Any other business
[06:15] <jml> 3
[06:15] <jml> 2
[06:15] <jml> 1
[06:15] <thumper> me
[06:15] <jml> thumper: go
[06:16] <thumper> what to people think about flacoste's idea of team leads not doing on call reviewing?
[06:16] <thumper> BjornT ?
[06:17] <jml> thumper: it has a practical ring to it.
[06:17] <BjornT> i think that's a quite sane idea. we should have enough reviewers to go around anyway, and there's nothing stopping team leads from helping out doing reviews, even though they are not officially on-call
[06:17] <thumper> right, that's generally my thoughts too
[06:18]  * thumper is done now
[06:18] <jml> ok.
[06:18] <jml> Then so am I.
[06:18] <jml> = Meeting ends =
[06:18] <jml> I'll talk to Barry to understand the agenda better.
[06:18] <thumper> thanks jml
[06:18] <jamesh> thanks jml
[06:19] <jml> np.
[06:30] <ubotu> New bug: #172248 in launchpad "milestone pages should (optionally) hide finished bugs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172248
[07:35] <ubotu> New bug: #172253 in rosetta "Translation overview pages for distro and project should link to filtered PO file pages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172253
[08:15] <ubotu> New bug: #172256 in launchpad "Builds page erroneously reports no packages building" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172256
[08:24] <carlos> morning
[08:25] <Fujitsu> Hi carlos.
[09:04] <glatzor> mpt: where can I enable the bug tracker for my launchpad project? the option seems to be quite hidden
[09:04] <mpt> glatzor, wow, coincidence
[09:04] <mpt> I'm just right now transcribing one of the user test videos where someone has the same problem 
[09:05] <glatzor> :)
[09:05] <mpt> So until we fix it, the steps are: (1) tabs > "Overview" (2) Actions > "Change details" (3) scroll down to "Bugs are tracked in: [ ] Launchpad"
[09:05]  * Fujitsu has helped a few people find that in the past, too.
[09:07] <glatzor> mpt: would be nice to have this on the bugs tab
[09:07] <mpt> I think it should be visible directly from the table on the right of the Overview page, and on the Bugs tab, yes
[09:07] <glatzor> mpt: thanks.
[09:08] <glatzor> mpt: how can I add files to the download section?
[09:09]  * Fujitsu thinks you need to add a series, then a release, then add files within that release.
[09:10] <mpt> glatzor, what Fujitsu said
[09:11] <mpt> ... which also should be more obvious
[09:11] <Fujitsu> Or perhaps there could be some documentation.
[09:11] <Fujitsu> Preferably both, I guess.
[09:12] <mpt> Writing documentation would be quicker for us. Fixing the dang problem would make it quicker for users.
[09:13] <Fujitsu> Some content in the help tab (that must be a first, except for launchpad-bazaar) of +download might help once Launchpad stops crying wolf.
[09:13] <mpt> We have a plan for the wolf problem
[09:14] <Fujitsu> That is very probably a good thing.
[09:14] <Fujitsu> What are you going to do to it?
[09:14] <mpt> It's not approved yet. Ask me again in two weeks. :-)
[09:14] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[10:31] <ubotu> New bug: #172275 in soyuz "vmware-server in feisty-commercial keeps getting reinstalled" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172275
[11:06] <chx> mwhudson: hi. thanks for fixing the Drupal main branch! Would it be possible to mirror DRUPAL-5 and when it comes (soon), DRUPAL-6 too?
[11:07]  * mwhudson blinks
[11:07] <mwhudson> chx: was that me? :)
[11:07] <chx> mwhudson: I do not know but someone fixed the Drupal branch.
[11:07] <chx> mwhudson: it stoppped updating I complained here to you, I fild a question on launchpad
[11:08] <chx> mwhudson: and now, it seems like up to date.
[11:08] <mwhudson> chx: ok, cool :)
[11:08] <mwhudson> chx: but in general we only mirror the trunk series of development
[11:08] <chx> mwhudson: the last commit as of liek ~40 minute ago is not yet mirrored but i guess it will eb soon. i do not know how often the mirror script runs
[11:08] <chx> mwhudson: fine, fine
[11:09] <mwhudson> chx: cvs repos get updated every 12 hours by default
[11:10] <chx> mwhudson: ouch. may I get a speedier update :) ?
[11:10] <mwhudson> yes, it should be possible
[11:11] <chx> mwhudson: http://ubuntu.com is Drupal. Does this give us some special position :D ?
[11:11] <mwhudson> chx: probably :)
[11:11] <chx> mwhudson: so, every 30 min :) ?
[11:12] <mwhudson> eh, that's probably a bit too often
[11:12] <chx> 31 min :D ?
[11:12] <chx> sure. Hourly?
[11:12] <mwhudson> the systems that run the imports are pretty heavily loaded
[11:12] <chx> Whatever works for you, works for me.
[11:13] <mwhudson> oh, haha
[11:13] <mwhudson> it is already set to hourly
[11:13] <chx> really?
[11:13] <chx> great, great!
[11:13] <mwhudson> but there are too many jobs being processed currently
[11:13] <chx> I see.
[11:13] <mwhudson> which is why it hasn't been updated for over an hour right now
[11:14] <chx> Would donating help? Do you guys need funding or sabdfl provides practically infinite funds :) ?
[11:14] <mwhudson> um
[11:14] <mwhudson> we need more time and less other things to do i guess :)
[11:15] <mwhudson> we're working hard on a more flexible code import system
[11:15] <chx> great! we are working hard to provide a better CMS for all of you :)
[11:15] <mwhudson> that would let us, e.g., give certain jobs higher priority
[11:15] <mwhudson> chx: not my end of things at all :)
[11:15] <ubotu> New bug: #172286 in launchpad-bazaar "timing out a branch puller worker leaves a locked branch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172286
[11:15] <mwhudson> chx: but seriously man, cvs? :)
[11:16] <chx> mwhudson: going over to svn is on the plate for 2.5yrs now
[11:16] <chx> mwhudson: it looks more realistic after this SoC but it's extremely hard
[11:17] <chx> mwhudson: we have.... what the stats was... um I remember 5000 projects maintained by 1000 people.
[11:17] <chx> or something like that.
[11:18] <mwhudson> i suppose svn would be a bit better ... :)
[11:20] <chx> yes but what I am saying that we educated a legion of people to use cvs and no matter how easy it is , we will have another set of problems
[11:20] <chx> we have integrated cvs pretty heavily
[11:21] <chx> one of the most important parts, as said above, was rewritten in an RCS independent way during SoC with a CVS plugin and the SVN plugin has recently been written
[11:21] <chx> but it's not easy
[11:21] <chx> also, believe me I would be happier with bzr or git
[11:22] <chx> but the lack of integration and fancy GUI shells makes it impossible. Think Tortoise here.
[11:23] <mwhudson> ah right, that one
[11:24] <chx> yes, that one
[11:24] <mwhudson> the problem here is that the people who most understand bzr are the least likely to be using windows :)
[11:24] <mwhudson> and most happy at the command line
[11:24] <chx> well there is a tortoisebzr now
[11:25] <chx> and believe me, the heaviest Drupal guns do not run Windows
[11:25] <chx> especialyl the early DrupalCons looked like macfests :D
[11:26] <ubotu> New bug: #172292 in rosetta "Don't offer Download translations to anonymous users" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172292
[11:26] <chx> still, when nine of us walked into a bar in Barcelona to spend the evening with something good (read core hacking), there were like... what, two PCs, one being mine? Apple hardware does not fit my needs, sorry.
[11:26] <mwhudson> i'm running gutsy on a macbook
[11:26] <mwhudson> the wifi is occasionally infuriating but other than that it's a very nice machine
[11:27] <chx> well, a macbook, from my viewpoint, and especially the macbook pro, is extremely heavy 
[11:27] <chx> and also, very fragile.
[11:28] <chx> I am running a Panasonic CF-Y5 which is very light and very very durable
[11:28] <mwhudson> i feel this is getting off topic :)
[11:28] <chx> it is :)
[11:28] <chx> so back to RCS...
[11:28] <chx> You also need the local "whatever RCS" guru
[11:28] <chx> we have a CVS guru
[11:28] <chx> we possibly can pull SVN off
[11:29] <chx> but even if TortoiseBZR matures
[11:29] <chx> I have no idea who will be the bzr "captain"
[11:29] <chx> there are a few people using bzr
[11:29] <chx> but aside from bzr pull -- bzr revert -- bzr diff we do not use bzr really.
[11:30] <chx> as usual, the challenges are more human resources than technical
[11:34] <mwhudson> it's hard to change this sort of thing because the costs are immediate and the benefits long term and often a bit vague seeming
[11:35] <chx> the big problem here is that SVN would solve little at all of our problems
[11:35] <chx> which are, people have a problem with grasping tags and branches
[11:35] <mwhudson> what problems does cvs give you?
[11:35] <mwhudson> ah
[11:35] <chx> this is hardly cvs specific
[11:35] <mwhudson> i've never understood branches in cvs :)
[11:36] <chx> SVN is somewhat easier -- but then again, tags there are highly artifical unless you introduce some commit script nothing stops changing a tag, if i understand correctly
[11:50] <Hobbsee> sky fallen in yet?
[11:55] <kiko> not yet. we're waiting.
[11:55] <Hobbsee> ah.  pity
[12:04] <Hobbsee> cprov: when should i hope for an email?
[12:06] <cprov> Hobbsee: ideally soon, but it's unlikely, sorry. BTW, do you have some time to help me to follow the soren's hint on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/165230 ?
[12:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165230 in soyuz "PPA generates an endlessly upgrading package" [Undecided,In progress]  - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[12:06] <soren> cprov: I'm right here, if you need me?
[12:08] <cprov> soren: ahh, good. I wonder how the conflicting binary metadata was generated. Can you explain ?
[12:09] <soren> cprov: Are the PPA's using apt-ftparchive?
[12:09] <thegodfather> soren: same bug as partner
[12:09] <soren> thegodfather: It smeels quite similar, yes. that's how I stumbled upon it.
[12:09] <thegodfather> i am pretty sure it is
[12:09] <thegodfather> PPA doesn't use apt-f-a IIRC
[12:10] <Fujitsu> !primary uses NoMoreFTPArchive, I'm pretty sure.
[12:10] <Fujitsu> +Apt there somewhere.
[12:10] <soren> cprov: pkg-binarymangler replaces the maintainer, afair.
[12:10] <cprov> soren: let's check the buildlog
[12:10] <soren> cprov: I suppose it's debatable whether that should even be installed in ppa buildd's.
[12:11]  * Hobbsee curses hardy
[12:11]  * soren pats Hobbsee 
[12:11]  * Hobbsee would appreciate it if X did not freeze
[12:12] <soren> cprov: pkgmaintainermangler: Maintainer field overridden to "Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>"
[12:13] <soren> cprov: Where does NoMoreAPTFTPArchive get its info from?
[12:14] <cprov> soren: when it process the incoming deb control-file
[12:14] <soren> cprov: -v
[12:16] <soren> cprov: That doesn't add up, IMO.
[12:16] <Fujitsu> It looks like it's getting the maintainer from the source, not the post-mangling binary.
[12:16] <soren> cprov: The Packages file does not match the control file from the control.tar.gz in the ar archive.
[12:17] <soren> Fujitsu: Yeah, but it's got the right Depends..
[12:17] <Fujitsu> soren: That's true.
[12:17] <cprov> soren:  and the difference is only the 'Maintainer' field ?
[12:18] <soren> cprov: For the package, I looked at, yes.
[12:18] <soren> cprov: I've reported another similar bug that bigjools is looking at.
[12:19] <soren> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/172275
[12:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172275 in soyuz "vmware-server in feisty-commercial keeps getting reinstalled" [High,New]  - Assigned to Julian Edwards (julian-edwards)
[12:22] <cprov> soren: uhm, the inconsistency source is that we use the Maintainer field set in the source metadata in the index and not the one coming in the binary controlfile
[12:22]  * Fujitsu headdesks.
[12:22] <soren> cprov: I see.
[12:22] <soren> cprov: Ok, that doesn't explain the missing Pre-Depends, though.
[12:23]  * Fujitsu suspects somebody left that out of the field whitelist...
[12:23] <cprov> soren: 'pre-depends' is not modeled in NoMoreAF
[12:24] <soren> cprov: It probably should be.
[12:24] <thegodfather> cprov: EH?
[12:24] <cprov> soren: ok, let's make it a bug.
[12:24] <Hobbsee> should my crack alert be going off?
[12:28] <Hobbsee> cprov: is there any visible documentation on NMAFA?  either current, or future plans?
[12:29] <cprov> Hobbsee: there is a spec, but it's private. We should indeed cook a public documentation for it
[12:30] <Hobbsee> yay.
[12:32] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you know, i really think that cprov should make the use of yada mandatory for packages to build in PPAs.
[12:32] <Fujitsu> YES!
[12:33] <Hobbsee> mutating packaging files would be fun!
[12:33] <Fujitsu> Heh heh heh.
[12:33] <Hobbsee> and oh so much simpler, when there's only one file of importance
[12:34] <cprov> Hobbsee: I have no idea what are you talking about. Can you point me to some doc on this ?
[12:34] <Hobbsee> cprov: you don't want to know, and you want to run away and hide before Fujitsu gets violent
[12:35] <Hobbsee> oh my goodness, it's mutated into something mroe evil!
[12:35] <ubotu> New bug: #172308 in soyuz "BinaryPackageRelease should store 'Pre-Depends'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172308
[12:35] <Fujitsu> cprov: yada is one of the most evil of packaging `aids' to ever exist. It mutates control files and such on each build, and was just brought up by myself in #-motu.
[12:35] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: dude....please file a removal request for it, before it takes over.
[12:36] <Hobbsee> Description: Yet Another Debianisation Aid
[12:36] <Hobbsee>  YADA is a Debian packaging helper.  It parses a special file,
[12:36] <Hobbsee>  debian/packages, in a source package, and generates an appropriate
[12:36] <Hobbsee>  debian/rules to control building of the package.
[12:36] <Hobbsee>  .
[12:36] <Hobbsee>  This package provides YADA script.
[12:36] <Hobbsee>  .
[12:36] <Hobbsee>  The /usr/bin/yada script can be also copied as source package's debian/yada
[12:36] <Hobbsee>  file if this package won't be available on system for package building.
[12:36] <Hobbsee> the latter part is new.
[12:36] <Hobbsee> even purging yada is not enough - you now need to purge all yada-infested files.  it's a virus!
[12:37] <cprov> aff ..
[12:38] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, now you're not annoyed at NMAFA, are you?  :)
[12:38] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Heh.
[12:39] <Fujitsu> cprov: In Soyuz's current state, sources are semi-published on upload, so we sort of have build-from-accepted?
[12:40] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: we've got binaries in the accepted queue already.  unsure if you can see them
[12:40] <Hobbsee> iirc
[12:42] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: or replace sbuild with checkinstall, if you really want some crack.
[13:03] <kiko> wake up launchpad
[13:04] <Hobbsee> it's sleepy.  you should feed it more
[13:43] <PriceChild> cprov, my ppa still hasn't cleared :/
[13:44] <cprov> PriceChild: the indexes or the pool ?
[13:44] <PriceChild> well there's nothing on my ~archive page... but it still shows all the source and binaries still there.
[13:44] <PriceChild> * +archive
[13:45] <PriceChild> apart from the upload i made last night that you said i should do
[13:45] <cprov> PriceChild: URL ?
[13:45] <PriceChild> https://edge.launchpad.net/~pricechild/+archive
[13:45] <ubotu> New bug: #172320 in rosetta "Empty translations must be always represented with a TranslationMessage without translations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172320
[13:46] <cprov> PriceChild: http://ppa.launchpad.net/pricechild/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/main/source/Sources seems to be correct
[13:47] <PriceChild> cprov, its still rejecting my upload of version 3.4 (different md5sum to original)
[13:49] <cprov> PriceChild: right, it is still published in http://ppa.launchpad.net/pricechild/ubuntu/pool/universe/g/gizmod/
[13:51] <PriceChild> So how do we unpublish it?
[13:52] <Hobbsee> "you don't"
[13:53] <Hobbsee> or you madly petition bigjools to code you a way to do it :P
[13:55] <PriceChild> Hobbsee, I know I can't yet (feature on way?)... but surely there must be a way for them to do it seen as other people have had this fixed for them...
[13:57] <cprov> PriceChild: right, the information I passed you yesterday was inaccurate, gizmod _3.4-0ubuntu1~ppa1 source will be removed after 2007-11-27 17:40:16.293285 UTC, i.e, tonight. It was submitted to the 24 hours quarantine period.
[13:58] <PriceChild> Great so 3 and a bit hours :)
[13:58] <PriceChild> Thanks cprov.
[13:59] <cprov> PriceChild: bear in mind that the removal procedure only runs at 3am, you will have to wait a little bit more, sorry.
[14:00] <Hobbsee> cprov: 3am UTC?
[14:01] <_MMA_> Sorry. I can imagine this might have been asked a bunch. I cant log in to LP. Is there a issue right now? I cleared cookies and all.
[14:01] <cprov> Hobbsee: yes
[14:02] <PriceChild> cprov, wait I'm confused then... when you mark something for deletion, It has to wait for at least 24 hours before it is queued for deletion incase I change my mind?
[14:04] <cprov> PriceChild: yes for the first part, but it's not exactly to cover the changing-mind case.
[14:05]  * Hobbsee wonders if it has then had time to definetly hit the backups
[14:05] <cprov> PriceChild: it's just to allocate in-progress work of new versions possibly depending on what you are removing.
[14:09] <Hobbsee> cprov: which means what, in laymans terms?
[14:09] <Hobbsee> cprov: what difference does it make when you remove it, if other stuff depends on it?
[14:09] <Hobbsee> it's still going to break, no matter when you remove it
[14:10] <cprov> Hobbsee: no, new versions depending on the same orig would hold the file in disk, for instance
[14:10] <Hobbsee> cprov: depending? why?
[14:10] <Hobbsee> oh!
[14:11] <Hobbsee> cprov: so...then you're assuming that the packages will have built within the 24 hours, so then you can remove part of the source?
[14:11] <cprov> I'm not sure if the exactly intent of this feature in the real world, but it's one of the effects it causes
[14:11]  * Hobbsee thought you removed by entire package, not just a version of a package
[14:11] <PriceChild> ah so like removing ~ppa1 means it needs to wait 24 incase there's a ~ppa2 scheduled to build?
[14:12] <Hobbsee> cprov: what other things does it cause?
[14:12] <cprov> Hobbsee: gives time for daily backup-procedure 
[14:13] <Hobbsee> cprov: which means that data is never removed from LP fully, then - even deleted stuff.
[14:13] <cprov> Hobbsee: but currently it's done hourly ;) 
[14:13] <Hobbsee> cprov: what...because LP is likely to fall over more regularly than once a day?  :P
[14:14] <cprov> Hobbsee: it will be removed fully when a new sources series is started, so the old orig is not need anymore
[14:14] <Hobbsee> cprov: i dont understand "sources series"
[14:14] <Hobbsee> i've never understood launchpad's series stuff.
[14:14] <Hobbsee> unless it's a form of mozilla-esque
[14:14] <cprov> Hobbsee: versions that share the same upstream source (orig.tar.gz)
[14:15] <Hobbsee> cprov: do you remove by versions of a package, or do you nuke the entire package?
[14:15] <cprov> Hobbsee: by version
[14:15] <cprov> {source,binary}packagerelease 
[14:16] <Hobbsee> cprov: right, that explains a bit more...
[14:17]  * Hobbsee still thinks there's some botched logic there, but it makes somewhat more sense.
[14:19] <cprov> Hobbsee: I believe we could get rid of the quarantine period for PPA deletions.
[14:20] <Hobbsee> cprov: erm...how does soyuz blow up if it's published a source package, but can't find the original tarball to build?
[14:21] <Hobbsee> does sbuild curl up and die, and lock up the builld in question, or?
[14:21]  * Hobbsee has no running sbuild, so cannot check.
[14:21] <Hobbsee> hang on, i could ssh into a friends machine and check - if i actually knew the runes to call sbuild.
[14:23] <cprov> Hobbsee: builders grab sources directly from librarian, so they won't blow if they are not in the archive.
[14:23] <Hobbsee> cprov: oh, so you're not actually deleting the files (orig.tar.gz, .diff.gz, .dsc) from librarian at all?
[14:23] <cprov> Hobbsee: although we would detect the lack of source when processing the binary (it has never happened, since deletions are done carefully)
[14:24] <cprov> Hobbsee: no, librarian has the *world* and the files are offered via LP UI
[14:25] <Hobbsee> cprov-lunch: so when you're talking about "delete", you actually mean "hiding it from the user, so it appears to be deleted, but isn't"
[14:26]  * Hobbsee wonders if the buildds then pick it up from librarian or the LP UI, then.
[14:26] <cprov-lunch> Hobbsee: well, the immediate deletion result is 'exclude it from the archive indexes'
[14:26] <Hobbsee> if librarian, then surely hiding it on the UI wouldn't help you.
[14:26] <Hobbsee> right, yes
[14:26] <cprov-lunch> Hobbsee: later on it will result in remove the file from the archive disk
[14:27] <Hobbsee> cprov-lunch: the archive disk - but never librarian too?
[14:27] <cprov-lunch> Hobbsee: exactly, librarian will stored the sources and binaries as long as we think it's useful
[14:28]  * Hobbsee suddenly is reminded of "google:  do no evil"
[14:28] <cprov-lunch> or better s\will store\can store
[14:28]  * Hobbsee checks what the LP privacy policy says about that
[14:29] <cprov-lunch> err ... evil word was mentioned, it definitely means "lunch-time" :)
[14:29] <Hobbsee> haha
[14:30] <Hobbsee> cprov-lunch: ah, it is there.  "Launchpad retains all data submitted by users permanently. "
[14:31] <Hobbsee> unless it's inappropriate.  great.
[14:31] <Hobbsee> ah, yes, and then you use the "delete", which means "hide from view", not delete as in real delete - but never actually say that.
[14:32] <Hobbsee> as it's not mutually exclusive with the "Launchpad retains all data submitted by users permanently. " statement.
[14:34] <kiko> Hobbsee, we sometimes delete porn spam if it's bad porn. 
[14:34] <Hobbsee> kiko: this would be covered under the "canonical deems it inappropriate" clause, yes.
[14:34]  * kiko had a weird dream about porn tonight. yes, insert random quote about porn in dreams and disturbed engineers
[14:35] <kiko> I was at a race conference, having dinner
[14:35] <kiko> and I gave the organizers a DVD to show which was of a race that happened this year
[14:35] <kiko> and it had racing but it then clipped into a porn video much to my chagrin
[14:35] <Hobbsee> now, i wasn't going to say that....but
[14:35] <Hobbsee> heh
[14:36] <kiko> it was horribly embarassing. but nobody but me seemed to care
[14:36] <Hobbsee> maybe they liked it.  *shrug*
[14:36] <Hobbsee> maybe it was more interesting than the race :P
[14:37] <kiko> I think it's more an artifact of it being in a dream
[14:37] <Hobbsee> yeah well.  you clearly have strange dreams.
[14:40] <kiko> I shouldn't have dinner that late
[15:27] <welterde> anyone an idea why antargis-trunk failed importing?
[15:57] <mrevell> LaserJock: Hi
[15:58] <LaserJock> hi mrevell 
[15:58] <mrevell> Hey LaserJock. Do you have a few minutes to chat about tomorrow's PPA 101 session?
[15:58] <LaserJock> sure
[15:59] <Hobbsee> anything interesting?
[16:00] <mrevell> LaserJock, Hobbsee: I think the most useful thing would be to adopt the same intro section as last time and devote most of the session to Q&A. Would you agree?
[16:00] <LaserJock> yep
[16:01] <LaserJock> Hobbsee and I talked about it a little last night
[16:01] <Hobbsee> mrevell: yes, although depends on how long the intro section is
[16:01] <LaserJock> long lectures just end up wasting time
[16:01] <Hobbsee> mrevell: for next time, it would be wise to stick the documentation in the blog post, and suggest that people read it to get full benefit out of the session
[16:01] <mrevell> If you subtract the questions, last time we spent around 15 minutes on the intro, I think
[16:02] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Thanks for the idea. I'll update the blog post.
[16:02] <Hobbsee> 15 mins of reading text from one person is....less than fascinating, no matter the content
[16:03] <LaserJock> perhaps an overview of what PPA is and what it's designed to deliver
[16:03] <LaserJock> then we can launch into Q&A?
[16:03] <mrevell> LaserJock: Yeah, that sounds good to me.
[16:04] <mrevell> In which case, there isn't a great deal more to discuss right now :) I can give the intro to PPA and leave you guys to answer the questions :)
[16:05] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i'd like to see your intro to the ppa before you present it then, please.
[16:05] <LaserJock> haha
[16:05] <Hobbsee> i would presume LaserJock would also like a CC.
[16:05] <LaserJock> yes, it would be helpful
[16:05] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: that being discussed...ponies!
[16:06] <mrevell> Hobbsee, LaserJock: Would either of you prefer to present the intro?
[16:07] <LaserJock> well, seems like an official LP person should do that
[16:07] <Hobbsee> mrevell: would also be wise to send all ppa docs through knowledgable (about ppa) people.  ia64 != amd64, and those who know stuff about build systems would have spotted this earlier
[16:07] <LaserJock> we're just the volunteer help ;-)
[16:08] <Hobbsee> s/those who know stuff/those who know *far* too much stuff/
[16:08] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i'm fine with someone else presenting it.  it's a LP thing, not a MOTU thing, and i think that if either LaserJock or I present it, it'll be seen as a MOTU thing.
[16:09] <mrevell> Hobbsee: You are more than welcome to join the Launchpad Documentation Team that, time allowing, I'm planning to announce this week.
[16:09] <Hobbsee> mrevell: of course, if it gets seen as a MOTU thing, then the MOTU's will get bugged about why certain bugs in it arent fixed...which is suboptimal.
[16:10] <ubotu> New bug: #172353 in rosetta "Icon emblem names aren't translated." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172353
[16:12] <Hobbsee> mrevell: like the above with MOTU, i'd be hesitant to be too far involved in PPA, without an employment contract on it - because people then think i can fix things in it, which I actually can't.  That also leaves me open to being blasted for things breaking, etc, which aren't my fault.
[16:12] <Hobbsee> and i get blamed enough for stuff i cant control as it is :P
[16:12] <LaserJock> hehe
[16:12]  * LaserJock knows the feeling
[16:15] <Hobbsee> mrevell: and it goes without saying that the level of a person's involvement of a project is direclty proportional to their frustration when they see things, which they really want to fix, but can't.
[16:16] <mrevell> Okay, well, thanks guys for your help with tomorrow's PPA meeting and to Hobbsee for the public beating.
[16:16] <Hobbsee> mrevell: sorry :)
[16:16] <LaserJock> haha
[16:16]  * Hobbsee hugs mrevell
[16:16] <LaserJock> mrevell: she's good at that ;-)
[16:16]  * LaserJock runs from the Ponies
[16:16] <Hobbsee> oy!
[16:19] <Hobbsee> mrevell: then again, i do have the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™ for a reason.
[16:19] <mrevell> :)
[17:45] <ubotu> New bug: #172373 in soyuz "Upload system error on duplicated version upload is misleading" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172373
[18:10] <ubotu> New bug: #172377 in soyuz "PPA emails should have rationale header" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172377
[18:30] <keescook> say, with inkscape having moved its bug tracker to LP, there is some weirdness with links back to the old tracker.  e.g. 16724 shows a link to sf 1204566, but that bug is now lp 170381.  Is there some way to fix all those mappings?
[18:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 170381 in inkscape "gnome-print still unsupported (causes segfault)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/170381
[20:12] <thumper> morning
[20:56] <ubotu> New bug: #172418 in launchpad "Show package updates by Ubuntu versions and/or programs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172418
[20:59] <bd_> https://launchpad.net/+builds/samarium <-- this buildd seems to have been stuck on a looping shell script somewhere for over a day
[21:01] <kiko> yeah, who submitted it again?
[21:04] <somerville32> Is lp dead?
[21:05] <somerville32> Everything keeps timing out on me
[21:05] <somerville32> OOPS-696EB107
[21:05] <kiko> yes, hang on for a bit while we do an update.
[21:06] <LaserJock> ah
[21:07] <LaserJock> I wondered
[21:07] <kiko> it was unexpected
[21:07] <kiko> I had hoped it was going to be live but.. life being what it is.
[21:10] <bd_> kiko: looks like the MOTU media team submitted it for their PPA
[21:11] <kiko> bd_, do you have the URL for the build?
[21:11] <bd_> https://launchpad.net/~motumedia/+archive/+build/456133
[21:25] <somerville32> Why aren't the bugs that are assigned to me listed under the bugs I'm working on?
[21:26] <kiko> somerville32, in progress.
[21:26] <somerville32> Oh
[21:33] <nouri> Hi.  We're thinking about migrating file downloads from Google Code to Launchpad for Plone.  Does Launchpad allow files to be downloaded from everywhere in the world?
[21:34] <kiko> nouri, wow, that's very cool to hear.
[21:34] <kiko> nouri, right now we don't have local mirrors, no, but it is planned.
[21:34] <lifeless> nouri: yes it does
[21:34] <lifeless> well, I guess it depends what you mean :)
[21:34] <kiko> :)
[21:34] <nouri> I mean, can people from Cuba download from Launchpad :)
[21:34] <lifeless> nouri: yes.
[21:34] <nouri> Okay, that's good to hear (that's not the case for Google code btw)
[21:34] <lifeless> we're not a US service.
[21:34] <nouri> Even better
[21:35] <lifeless> ... we're in the free world :)
[21:35] <nouri> I wonder who's the owner of the Plone project on Launchpad; where can I see that; I'm looking at https://launchpad.net/plone
[21:36] <nouri> Oh, it has no Driver
[21:36] <kiko> nouri, expand the box to the left
[21:36] <kiko> registered by: https://edge.launchpad.net/~plone
[21:36] <kiko> nouri, sounds like you want to be a member of that team. I can do that, but maybe you want to talk to Hanno?
[21:37] <nouri> Yeah, I can talk to Hanno, but he's not online today, and I'd rather get started NOW :)
[21:38] <nouri> I'm a Plone developer, see http://plone.org/news/plone-3.0-released/
[21:38] <kiko> nouri, what's your LP ID?
[21:38] <nouri> kiko: daniel.nouri
[21:44] <kiko> nouri, added. please notify Hanno if you can. :)
[21:44] <nouri> kiko: Thanks a lot!
[21:44] <kiko> nouri, but tell me about this cuba problem.
[21:45] <nouri> kiko: Do you guys have limits on file size?
[21:45] <kiko> nouri, no.
[21:45] <nouri> kiko: Well, Google Code doesn't serve them
[21:45] <kiko> nouri, that is absolutely fucked.
[21:45] <kiko> are you serious?
[21:45] <nouri> Yes
[21:45] <nouri> It *is* fucked
[21:45] <nouri> One more thing kiko; do you guys have download stats?
[21:45] <kiko> wtf
[21:45] <kiko> nouri, not yet public. working on getting those public.
[21:46] <nouri> kiko: It's available thorough the admin interface?
[21:46] <kiko> nouri, no, just in the datacenter logs.
[21:46] <nouri> kiko: I see; is there an ETA for landing this feature?
[21:47] <kiko> nouri, I can make up an ETA if you want one. :)
[21:47] <nouri> Hehe
[21:47] <kiko> you know how ETAs and software go..
[21:47] <kiko> but we need to do this work the next year. 
[21:47] <nouri> I see
[21:47] <nouri> kiko: But tell me, these stats, they are available, just need to be made public?
[21:47] <nouri> kiko: So you're collecting right now?
[21:48] <kiko> nouri, yes, we do track accesses to our webapp instance
[21:48] <kiko> yes
[21:48] <kiko> we need to parse them and then offer them for browsing via launchpad
[21:48] <kiko> if you really really need this soon then I can put extra effort into doing it
[21:48] <nouri> I know I'm annoying, but can we request getting these stats every month until the feature is available? :)
[21:48] <nouri> It looks as if it's kinda important to some of us.
[21:48] <kiko> find some undernourished engineer and give him some food, etc
[21:48] <nouri> Hehe
[21:48] <kiko> well
[21:49] <kiko> for plone? sure we could do something.
[21:50] <lifeless> kiko: re cuba, remember the US has an embargo; and various electronic export requirements
[21:51] <lifeless> kiko: google code would either have to check and enforce that all their hosted content does not qualify as munitions (e.g. doesn't link to openssl :)), or they do location blacklisting
[21:58] <gmb> !~
[21:59] <nouri> kiko-phone: (I understand you're in a phone call -- and I can wait)
[21:59] <nouri> kiko-phone: I'll be writing an e-mail to the Plone developers list; I'd like to get funding for the stats feature; if you could tell me if this would help, and in any case, when we could land this, that'd be very helpful
[22:00] <kiko-phone> nouri, hmmm. so you can tell them this:
[22:01] <kiko-phone> a) you can host file downloads and give them to anyone in the world, unlimited space, unlimited bandwidth. even brazilians can download.
[22:01] <kiko-phone> b) we can give you webstats for plone downloads through a monthly report of some sorts
[22:01] <nouri> kiko-phone: That's great!
[22:01] <kiko-phone> c) we are committed to making this public with minimal hassle and while it does require engineering we can prioritize it for you.
[22:02] <nouri> Thanks kiko!  That's surely good news.
[22:02] <kiko> you're most welcome
[22:02] <kiko> launchpad is more fun because we care about you
[22:03] <kiko> that was meant to be d) but maybe they will find it cheesy
[22:03] <nouri> I sure have the feeling
[22:03] <nouri> hehe
[22:03] <kiko> phew my phone will not stop ringing
[22:03] <kiko> nouri, there are a lot of improvements we will do to file downloads in the near future
[22:04] <kiko> so it's a good place to be
[22:04] <nouri> Nice
[22:04] <nouri> I'm sure everyone will agre
[22:04] <kiko> well we will find out about that. I know that sidnei has been talking about bug tracking and it's been mixed. if you need help ask me
[22:05] <nouri> Yeah, I've followed that discussion
[22:05] <kiko> sidnei is well-meaning but we will see if we can find a way of addressing the other concerns
[22:11] <kiko> okay let me get something to eat and reflect upon.
[22:22] <ian_brasil> oo
[22:24] <bd_> hmm, is it expected behavior that PPA builds should show 'pending' while there are idle xen builders?
[22:25] <bd_> eg https://launchpad.net/~bdonlan/+archive/+build/457025 - iridium (xen-i386) is idle atm
[22:25] <kiko-fud> bd_, not really.
[22:26] <bd_> I've noticed there are delays of a few hours in there anyway - I figured they might be deliberate, to discourage upload-builderror-tweak cycles.
[22:26] <bd_> but otoh it could also be a bug :)
[22:27] <kiko-fud> looks like something's wrong.
[22:27] <bd_> also do arch-indep builds always happen on i386?
[22:28] <bd_> seems like rotating them might catch some more FTBFS errors :)
[22:28] <kiko-fud> bd_, it's just something specific to the implementation in soyuz I think.
[22:28] <kiko-fud> there is some rationale behind it but..
[22:29] <bd_> which is, the i386 arch-indep builds or the delays?
[22:31] <mpt_> Gooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[22:34] <bd_> kiko-fud: seems to be going now
[22:35] <kiko-fud> bd_, it's kinda my fault.
[22:35] <bd_> hm?
[22:35] <Rinchen> bd_, everything is kiko-fud's fault ;-)
[22:35] <bd_> heh
[22:35] <Rinchen> bd_, like, making LP work :-)
[22:35] <bd_> kiko-fud: what's with the samarium builder btw? It's been stuck in some sort of loop for ... well, since PPA was unveiled :)
[22:36] <bd_> (perhaps there should be a more obvious place to report possible builder problems? There's no bugtracker or whatever for the Build Daemon Maintainers group)
[22:37] <kiko-fud> bd_, I'm waiting for celso to come back to fix it
[22:38] <kiko-fud> bd_, you have a very good question there. we will soon!
[22:38] <bd_> ah, good to hear :)
[22:39] <bd_> Will the PPA repositories purge superseded binaries to save space? I know you can't purge the sources for a few years in order to comply with the GPL, but the binaries should be fair game.
[22:40] <kiko-fud> if the binaries are gone the source can go too
[22:41] <kiko-fud> and yes we purge both, bd_ 
[22:42] <bd_> kiko-fud: wouldn't the sources need to be distributed for three years under gpl-2 section 3.b? You're not actually sending the sources with the binaries... and the homepage linked from debian/copyright may not include patches applied to the debian source...
[22:46] <kiko-fud> bd_, I'm not sure, to be 100% honest, but I do know that Debian and Ubuntu do garbage collect sources and binaries.
[22:47] <somerville32> The GPL is evil :/
[22:47] <kiko-fud> so are kittens
[22:48] <somerville32> But they're cute
[22:49] <bd_> kiko-fud: mmm, debian has snapshot.debian.net of course... well, I'm no lawyer, so whatever. not my liability, right? :)
[22:49] <kiko-fud> we have everything in the librarian, too. just not linked to. :)
[22:50] <LaserJock> Ubuntu has the source archived, I believe for 3 years
[22:50] <bd_> kiko-fud: ah, well, if it's in the librarian then I guess it's still available :)
[22:51] <LaserJock> although you may have to request the source rather than apt-get source
[22:51] <bd_> though - does the quota only count stuff live at ppa.launchpad.net, or does it include archived/superceded stuff?
[22:52] <kiko-fud> bd_, only live stuff.
[22:52] <bd_> ah, okay
[23:31] <Flare183> When is the PPA Class going to start?
[23:33] <LaserRock> 15:00 UTC
[23:33] <Flare183> What's that in EST?
[23:34] <LaserRock> umm, 11:00 maybe
[23:34] <Flare183> am? or pm?
[23:34] <LaserRock> am
[23:34] <LaserRock> it's 8am PST
[23:34] <Flare183> ok thanks
[23:50] <ubotu> New bug: #172455 in malone ""Project" menu in project group bug-reporting page should be radio buttons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172455
[23:50] <kiko-fud> go mpt go
[23:57] <aa_> hi, would be great (imo) if each project came with a built in wiki. Something really simple, maybe even with a mximum of 10 pages or so. Has this idea been discussed?