[00:22] <nealmcb> @schedule
[00:22] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 29 Nov 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 01 Dec 19:00: Art Team
[00:22] <nealmcb> @schedule denver
[00:22] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 29 Nov 07:00: Desktop Team Development | 01 Dec 12:00: Art Team
[01:50] <musashi> !schedule
[01:50] <ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[01:51] <ianmcorvidae> @schedule phoenix
[01:51] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Phoenix: 29 Nov 07:00: Desktop Team Development | 01 Dec 12:00: Art Team
[01:56] <nealmcb> @schedule denver
[01:56] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 29 Nov 07:00: Desktop Team Development | 01 Dec 12:00: Art Team
[01:57] <nealmcb> The colorado team will be having a meeting in here in 3 minutes
[01:58] <nealmcb> @time
[01:58] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: November 27 2007, 01:58:01 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 2 days
[01:59] <MitchM> nealmcb, first topic :: Leadership Roles -> Deputy Team Lead
[02:00] <nealmcb> #startmeeting
[02:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 02:00. The chair is nealmcb.
[02:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[02:01] <nealmcb> [topic] attendance
[02:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  attendance
[02:01] <nealmcb> all here please say "aye"
[02:01] <FunnyLookinHat> aye
[02:01] <MitchM> aye
[02:01] <musashi> aye
[02:01] <btrigg> aye
[02:01] <nealmcb> (mootbot keeps a log of who said something)
[02:01] <tiborio> aye
[02:01] <nealmcb> [topic] Leadership Roles -> Deputy Team Lead
[02:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Leadership Roles -> Deputy Team Lead
[02:02] <MitchM> [IDEA] We need to assign a deputy team lead
[02:02] <MootBot> IDEA received:  We need to assign a deputy team lead
[02:02] <MitchM> Are there any volunteers looking to fulfill this role?
[02:02] <btrigg> What are the responsibilities?
[02:02] <MitchM> Assiting me with planning meetings / finding locations / distributing cd's etc.
[02:03] <musashi> am i still education lead or is that a vote thing and not yet official?
[02:03] <MitchM> also acts as team lead in my absense
[02:03] <btrigg> Time requirements?
[02:03] <MitchM> You are the education lead musashi
[02:03] <musashi> okay, i'll stay that
[02:03] <musashi> if you want me to
[02:03] <MitchM> up to you musashi
[02:03] <MitchM> :)
[02:03] <musashi> you
[02:04] <musashi> 're the new dictator
[02:04] <MitchM> time requirements i'd say about 2 - 4 hours/week
[02:04] <MitchM> closer to the release party it goes up...
[02:04] <MitchM> as we try to find locations
[02:04] <MitchM> (which is still quite the project)
[02:04] <btrigg> Right.
[02:04] <musashi> might go up as we organize other events too
[02:05] <MitchM> aye.
[02:05] <MitchM> so it's hard to say overall contribution as we're trying to organize our efforts better at the current time
[02:05] <musashi> ask FunnyLookinHat how much time it takes
[02:05] <btrigg> Ok.  Well, I'd love to do it, but I have school commitments that would come first, sorry.
[02:05] <MitchM> *nods*
[02:05] <MitchM> [IDEA] Ask the list again for a volunteer for the Deputy Team Lead
[02:05] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Ask the list again for a volunteer for the Deputy Team Lead
[02:06] <MitchM> topic -> regional leaders?
[02:06] <nealmcb> [topic] regional leaders?
[02:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  regional leaders?
[02:07] <MitchM> There was discussion at the release party to have seperate regional leaders
[02:07] <FunnyLookinHat> I'm sort of AFK
[02:07] <musashi> i think this would be a good idea but not sure how to implement
[02:07] <FunnyLookinHat> Sorry guys, take notes on the info you need from me.
[02:07] <MitchM> [idea] How can we implement a regional structure?
[02:07] <MootBot> IDEA received:  How can we implement a regional structure?
[02:07] <MitchM> Does it make sense to seperate our CoLoCo into 'regions' based on current attendance and meetings?
[02:08] <musashi> maybe regional coordinators would be a better term
[02:08] <btrigg> I think we have some obvious divisions...Springs, GJ, Northern CO...
[02:08] <MitchM> *nods*
[02:08] <btrigg> But the Metro region may be a bit more packed.
[02:08] <musashi> i think it makes sense to have regional activities since we can't all get everywhere
[02:08] <btrigg> Agreed.
[02:09] <musashi> but team decisions need to be by the team not region
[02:09] <MitchM> yeah - it is very hard to organize something more than a handful of people can attend in any location...
[02:09] <MitchM> (i.e. meetings in boulder etc.)
[02:09] <btrigg> Yes.
[02:09] <musashi> yeah, i was the only one. thanks MitchM
[02:09] <btrigg> Plus, for me at least, it would be easier to have a meeting with the few folks who are interested and are close.
[02:09] <MitchM> I would have buddied up with ya musashi :D
[02:10] <MitchM> but i was detained...
[02:10] <musashi> no worries, i brought the family
[02:10] <MitchM> ah - very nice :D
[02:10] <MitchM> [idea] Regional events organized by 'regional coordinators' with Team decisions being done by the "team"
[02:10] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Regional events organized by 'regional coordinators' with Team decisions being done by the "team"
[02:11] <musashi> sounds good
[02:11] <btrigg> Agreed.
[02:11] <MitchM> So the turnout may be too small to really bring any conclusion to this; but it's a path we can pursue
[02:11] <MitchM> and we should bring this topic to the list
[02:11] <MitchM> [idea] regional meetings on the same day (with all involved logged into irc)
[02:11] <MootBot> IDEA received:  regional meetings on the same day (with all involved logged into irc)
[02:12] <nealmcb> [idea] Important decisions should also be discussed on the mailing list
[02:12] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Important decisions should also be discussed on the mailing list
[02:12] <MitchM> +1
[02:12] <btrigg> I think we've seen on the list that even irc meetings are tough to organize.
[02:12] <MitchM> anyone else have any leadership concerns?
[02:12] <MitchM> btrigg, yeah. Its a pain to be productive :D
[02:12]  * Whelpo mutters something about time wasting video games.
[02:12] <musashi> +1 to that but are there any better options. seems a lot don't follow the list and some ignore when too much starts happening (spams the inbox and all)
[02:13] <btrigg> Open time is the factor for me.
[02:13] <musashi> we have over 100 members but only 10 -20 are moderately active it seems
[02:13] <btrigg> I'd love to be much more involved but it's a matter of what I can do and when.
[02:14] <musashi> [idea] how do we increase participation of all our members?
[02:14] <MootBot> IDEA received:  how do we increase participation of all our members?
[02:14] <btrigg> laissez-faire?
[02:14] <MitchM> [idea] Obtain a monthly schedule for meetings
[02:14] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Obtain a monthly schedule for meetings
[02:15] <musashi> yes, but a lot signed up as members. how do we get them involved
[02:15] <MitchM> I believe if we dedicate a day/time to meetings (like today)
[02:15] <MitchM> we'll eventaully see more 'movement' in our IRC
[02:15] <btrigg> A loose hierarchy of "independent" leaders/coordinators who disseminate info to their regions?
[02:15] <musashi> +1
[02:15] <btrigg> +1
[02:15] <musashi> to both
[02:15] <MitchM> Vote to change topic to upcomming events?
[02:15] <nealmcb> [topic] attendance part two: everyone please state your name, so we can get better at matching irc nicks and email
[02:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  attendance part two: everyone please state your name, so we can get better at matching irc nicks and email
[02:15] <nealmcb> Neal McBurnett
[02:15] <btrigg> Brett Trigg
[02:15] <siblog> simon engelbert
[02:15] <acomer> Alex Comer
[02:15] <MitchM> Mitch Mahan, Thornton
[02:16] <tiborio> Tibor Hetei
[02:16] <musashi> jim hutchinson
[02:16] <nealmcb> Boulder
[02:16] <spoke> Craig Maxwell
[02:16] <btrigg> Northglenn
[02:16] <EricTheGrey> John Edwards
[02:16] <Whelpo> Daniel Galecki
[02:16] <tiborio> Vail
[02:16] <musashi> fort collins
[02:16] <Whelpo> Westminster
[02:16] <MitchM> vote: topic -> Upcomming Events
[02:16] <nealmcb> [topic] upcoming events
[02:16] <siblog> littleton
[02:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  upcoming events
[02:16] <MitchM> *nods*
[02:16] <EricTheGrey> Thornton
[02:17] <MitchM> as the education team lead musashi; have you had any more thoughts about organizing a 'library' gathering?
[02:17] <musashi> yes, but not sure what exactly to do
[02:18] <MitchM> [idea] Claim library space to offer 'free-tutoring' to people interested in ubuntu
[02:18] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Claim library space to offer 'free-tutoring' to people interested in ubuntu
[02:18] <musashi> my idea was to advertise in local libraries for a computer support day
[02:18] <MitchM> Would anyone like to help musashi with this project?
[02:18] <musashi> bring your box, we demo ubuntu and then help them with various issues including learning about ubuntu.
[02:19] <MitchM> I think it's a great idea - even more so if they let us Live! Ubuntu on their library computers
[02:19] <siblog> location?
[02:19] <musashi> i think it would be good to help windows users get more foss on their boxes too and such and not push ubuntu too much
[02:19] <MitchM> siblog, tbd
[02:19] <musashi> maybe a tech support / intro to foss  computer fair
[02:20] <btrigg> Has the idea of install races come up?  Any insight on that?
[02:20] <musashi> someone mentioned a computer first aid day or something like that
[02:20] <MitchM> [idea] Computer Aid Day
[02:20] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Computer Aid Day
[02:20] <musashi> ah, computer fair ala the health fairs
[02:20] <siblog> I would not mind helping out depending on time/location
[02:21] <musashi> see if we can't get a little news/tv blurb too
[02:21] <EricTheGrey> We'll have to make certain people nnow it's NOT a computer lab.  Otherwise we'll end up with people bringing their windows machines in for spyware cleaning...
[02:21] <nealmcb> sounds fun.  and the library would hopefully put it up on their calendar of events
[02:21] <MitchM> musashi, would you like to try and locate a central 'library' location and see if they'd allow such an activity?
[02:21] <musashi> EricTheGrey, i think that might be a good thing. while cleaning their box we mention ubuntu and hand them a cd
[02:21] <nealmcb> remember there are also the regular CLUE installfests in north and south denver metro area
[02:22] <musashi> MitchM, not sure about "central" but maybe a couple libraries along the front range
[02:22] <MitchM> *nods*
[02:22] <btrigg> EricTheGrey: Yes, but that would also be a good time to show goodwill, clean the spyware (if possible) and explain how Ubuntu is more resistant...demos, etc.
[02:22] <MitchM> if you could look into it and report back on our next irc meeting
[02:22] <MitchM> (which is not scheduled)
[02:22] <MitchM> that would be most helpful :)
[02:22] <musashi> nealmcb, i would like it to NOT be an install fest. more a help desk day where we push foss as a good solution
[02:23] <nealmcb> musashi: right - just good to be able to point them at such things
[02:23] <musashi> certainly we can add that too but i wouldn't want to compete
[02:23] <nealmcb> I've heard the clue folks can help with ubuntu and other distros
[02:23] <EricTheGrey> I would not mind helping out on either, depending on my available. time.
[02:23] <musashi> i.e. a different day would be good
[02:23] <MitchM> [idea] Assist users in general Windows woes while 'advertising' Foss/Ubuntu
[02:23] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Assist users in general Windows woes while 'advertising' Foss/Ubuntu
[02:23] <musashi> something like that
[02:24] <musashi> MitchM, i will contact some of the libraries and see if they are open to loaning the space
[02:24] <MitchM> excellent :)
[02:24] <musashi> and doing some of the advertising
[02:24] <MitchM> [idea] musashi will ask libraries for available space/accomodations and report back to the loco
[02:24] <MootBot> IDEA received:  musashi will ask libraries for available space/accomodations and report back to the loco
[02:24] <nealmcb> [idea] hand out The Open Disc also
[02:24] <MootBot> IDEA received:  hand out The Open Disc also
[02:24] <musashi> yep that to
[02:24] <musashi> too
[02:24] <nealmcb> [action] musashi will ask libraries for available space/accomodations and report back to the loco
[02:24] <MootBot> ACTION received:  musashi will ask libraries for available space/accomodations and report back to the loco
[02:25] <MitchM> thanks :)
[02:25] <musashi> ooh, that sounds official
[02:25] <MitchM> very.
[02:25] <nealmcb> note also [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[02:25] <musashi> maybe mootbot can get my A in gear on my dissertation :)
[02:25] <nealmcb> though links are automatic if you paste a url
[02:25] <MitchM> [idea] LoCo IRC bug day
[02:25] <MootBot> IDEA received:  LoCo IRC bug day
[02:26] <MitchM> anyone interested in holding a weekly/bi-weekly semi-bug day in #ubuntu-colorado?
[02:26] <Whelpo> I like the bug day idea
[02:26] <MitchM> Where we can go around Launchpad and help triage bugs?
[02:26] <btrigg> There are bugs?  :-)
[02:26] <musashi> just the one
[02:26] <MitchM> always. grab your fly-swatter
[02:27] <musashi> !bug #1
[02:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[02:27] <Whelpo> I sometimes find a bug but don't have the time/motivation to post it
[02:27] <btrigg> lol
[02:27] <MitchM> Whelpo, yuck :P
[02:27] <Whelpo> so having a "bug day" would help with the motivation
[02:27]  * nealmcb nods
[02:27] <MitchM> Another decision for the list
[02:27] <MitchM> I'd prefer Sunday nights (when nothing is going on)
[02:27] <nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay
[02:28] <musashi> great idea but not my strength
[02:28] <MitchM> but we'll have to get a general time assertation from the list
[02:28] <Whelpo> a weekend would definetly be better
[02:28] <MitchM> musashi, not all bugs deal with programming ;)
[02:28] <nealmcb> The next Hug Day is 28 November 2007, in all timezones. It will take place in #ubuntu-bugs on Freenode.
[02:28] <MitchM> musashi, some are simple and most just need closing/modifying
[02:28] <musashi> no but most are beyond me
[02:28] <nealmcb> see you then!
[02:28] <MitchM> :D
[02:28] <musashi> i put in a lot of time on answers
[02:29] <musashi> i'll someone else do bugs
[02:29] <Whelpo> maybe bug day could be added to the Coloco calender?
[02:29] <MitchM> vote -> LoCo Bug day?  :: (to be brought to the list for judgement)
[02:29] <MitchM> +1 Whelpo
[02:29] <btrigg> [AGREED]
[02:29] <nealmcb> there are lots of ways both really easy and really advanced, to help with bugs - see the page for details
[02:30] <MitchM> [AGREED]
[02:30] <nealmcb> who will put the 28th on the calendar and wiki and web site and mail list or whereever else people look?
[02:30] <MitchM> Nick !
[02:30] <nealmcb> [agreed] coloco will participate in bug day on the 28th
[02:30] <MootBot> AGREED received:  coloco will participate in bug day on the 28th
[02:30] <musashi> nealmcb, i'm sure that's true but i already spend my fair share on launchpad. i'll be happy to support a bug day but probably won't participate. just not my forte
[02:30] <nealmcb> musashi: np!
[02:30] <nealmcb> you are awesome on answers!
[02:31] <musashi> well average maybe
[02:31] <musashi> i help when i can
[02:31] <MitchM> i'd prefer the loco bug day as opposed to the Ubuntu one; where i have time on sundays to triage (but lack motivation)
[02:31] <musashi> usually those dumber than me :)
[02:31] <musashi> s/dumber/less knowledgeable
[02:31] <MitchM> [AGREED] LoCo Bug Day -> Present Idea to List
[02:31] <MitchM> :P
[02:31] <MitchM> topic -> General Discussion
[02:32] <MitchM> topic -> CD's and Who Needs Them!?
[02:32] <MitchM> :D
[02:32] <musashi> just got my small batch but may not last long
[02:32] <nealmcb> [topic] CD's and Who Needs Them!?
[02:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  CD's and Who Needs Them!?
[02:32] <Whelpo> I could use some CDs
[02:32] <MitchM> [idea] Send whelp CD's
[02:32] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Send whelp CD's
[02:33] <MitchM> :P
[02:33] <MitchM> whelpo* !
[02:33] <siblog> I would like to help distribute some CDs
[02:33] <nealmcb> hmm - event I forgot - the BWA meeting at ncar tomorrow night, where we'll need lots of disks
[02:33] <Whelpo> I had to order some recently myself... only went for 2
[02:33] <MitchM> [idea] Siblog would like to distribute CD's
[02:33] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Siblog would like to distribute CD's
[02:33] <MitchM> [idea] Bring CD's to BWA Meeting
[02:33] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Bring CD's to BWA Meeting
[02:33] <Whelpo> having CDs handy at work would be also good... been spready the joy slowly around
[02:34] <Whelpo> *spreading
[02:34] <MitchM> work has been a great place to spread ubuntu for me
[02:34] <MitchM> i placed some CD's in our lunch room
[02:34] <MitchM> most of them disspeared
[02:34] <MitchM> dissapeared*
[02:34] <siblog> me too :-)
[02:34] <Whelpo> hopefully didn't end up as coasters ;)
[02:34] <musashi> lol
[02:34] <MitchM> Whelpo, product placement !
[02:34] <MitchM> all the better :P
[02:35] <Whelpo> lunchroom may = coasters
[02:35] <musashi> shove them in linux books at the book store (or windows books)
[02:35] <Whelpo> I like that one
[02:35] <tiborio> good one
[02:35] <nealmcb> MitchM: hopefully the cleaning crew or security didn't take them
[02:35] <MitchM> nealmcb, it was in the nicely presented 'cd box'
[02:35] <MitchM> so i doubt it :D
[02:36] <nealmcb> those boxes are great!
[02:36] <MitchM> yeah - they look so professional.
[02:36] <MitchM> brilliant idea
[02:36] <MitchM> alright -> whelpo needs cd's; maybe siblog
[02:36] <MitchM> i'll try and get with you guys to give you some
[02:37] <Whelpo> Mitch, do you live where you hosted the release party?
[02:37] <musashi> i will need some eventually too but not right away
[02:37] <nealmcb> MitchM: are you coming to bwa?  with a very professional box, and kubuntu also?
[02:37] <MitchM> Whelpo, not anymore; that was temporary
[02:37]  * nealmcb can be demanding
[02:37] <nealmcb> :-)
[02:37] <siblog> yes please...I have some people at work interested
[02:37] <MitchM> nealmcb, url ?
[02:37] <Whelpo> ah, too bad since that's like right by me
[02:37] <MitchM> [idea] siblog also needs cd's
[02:37] <MootBot> IDEA received:  siblog also needs cd's
[02:38] <nealmcb> on email - let me dig it out
[02:38] <MitchM> Whelpo, i live about 12 minutes away from there :)
[02:38] <Whelpo> oh, not too bad then
[02:38] <acomer> re: bwa meeting... are we actually invited? is this meeting open to the public? reading their page i got the impression that  bwa expects folks to be a member to participate
[02:38] <MitchM> nah
[02:38] <nealmcb> http://www.bwa.org
[02:38] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.bwa.org
[02:38] <nealmcb> acomer: ahh - good question
[02:39] <nealmcb> but it was advertised to the rmiug...
[02:39] <acomer> from bwa.org: "Standard dues are $50/year (for new and nonvolunteering members)."
[02:39] <MitchM> http://www.bwa.org/calendar/general.htm
[02:39] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.bwa.org/calendar/general.htm
[02:39] <MitchM> acomer, "All meetings of Boulder Writers Alliance are free and open to the public."
[02:40] <acomer> hmm ok
[02:40] <btrigg> My personal opinion is that being militant at something like that drives more people away that causes them to join.
[02:40] <MitchM> on their calendar page
[02:40] <acomer> free buffet!
[02:40] <MitchM> ecellent !!
[02:40] <MitchM> ;D
[02:40] <acomer> i vote we attend all their meetings ;)
[02:40] <MitchM> topic -> IRC Meeting Times
[02:40] <acomer> hehe
[02:41] <musashi> MitchM, you need the [] for that to work :)
[02:41] <MitchM> no
[02:41] <MitchM> i need the anvil for that to work :D
[02:41] <nealmcb> btrigg: yeah.  I would be upset if folks were anything but respectful and welcoming and not annoying
[02:41] <tiborio> yes. because they know where you live.
[02:41] <musashi> i meant the [topic] bit
[02:41] <nealmcb> [topic] irc meeting times
[02:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  irc meeting times
[02:41] <musashi> like that ^^
[02:41] <MitchM> Last monday of the month at 7pm ?
[02:42] <Whelpo> sounds good to me
[02:42] <MitchM> [topic] Why doesn't this work?
[02:42] <musashi> i'd go for bi-monthly
[02:42] <MitchM> [idea] bi-monthly meetings
[02:42] <MootBot> IDEA received:  bi-monthly meetings
[02:42] <nealmcb> uh - dec 31st?
[02:42] <btrigg> [agreed]
[02:42] <MitchM> [agreed] Hold bi-monthly meetings
[02:42] <MitchM> nealmcb, of course not!
[02:42] <MitchM> nealmcb, goof :P
[02:42] <musashi> maybe only nealmcb can do that
[02:42] <MitchM> aye.
[02:43] <MitchM> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
[02:43] <nealmcb> you just need to put text after [agreed]....
[02:43] <nealmcb> but to say "aye" the custom is to say just "+1"
[02:43] <nealmcb> it stands out nicely
[02:43] <btrigg> [agreed] Hold bi-monthly meetings
[02:43] <MitchM> only the chair can issue [agreed]
[02:43] <btrigg> Sorry.  Got it.
[02:43] <MitchM> :D
[02:43]  * btrigg is a noob
[02:43] <nealmcb> I think the topic is the only thing that only the person who said "#startmeeting" can do
[02:44] <musashi> +1 to meetings
[02:44] <nealmcb> or maybe votes also
[02:44] <tiborio> I would recommend monthly IRC meetings instead of bi-monthly
[02:44] <FunnyLookinHat> Yup.  Monthly is better.
[02:44] <nealmcb> MitchM: cool - a guy that reads doc!
[02:44] <MitchM> perhaps to be revised at the next meeting?
[02:44] <MitchM> nealmcb, you bet ya!
[02:44] <Whelpo> I'm leaning towards Monthly myself
[02:44] <musashi> you'll hit more people with bi-monthly since some may miss one and 30 days is a long time to wait
[02:44]  * nealmcb considers whether to agree to bimonthly meetings....
[02:44] <nealmcb> :-)
[02:45] <MitchM> action -> Next meeting; January 28th 7pm
[02:45] <MitchM> +1
[02:45] <nealmcb> I though bimonthly was twice a month....
[02:45] <musashi> that's 2 months away
[02:45] <Whelpo> I was thinking that getting more people with bi-monthly may be good but anyone not attending both would be missing out
[02:45] <musashi> right, twice a month
[02:45] <MitchM> doh.
[02:45] <musashi> Whelpo, well, we can only do so much
[02:46] <btrigg> lol
[02:46] <MitchM> i was thinking every _2_ months.
[02:46] <Whelpo> lol
[02:46] <MitchM> [idea] Hold a meeting every 2 months ?
[02:46] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Hold a meeting every 2 months ?
[02:46] <nealmcb> dec 24th might hit some conflicts also....
[02:46] <btrigg> What's 12/24?  ;-)
[02:46]  * nealmcb likes monthly or every 2 weeks
[02:46] <MitchM> Vote?
[02:46] <MitchM> monthly +1
[02:46] <musashi> well dec may be a bad month but if we do 2 a month then months like dec are less an issue
[02:46] <Whelpo> monthly +1
[02:46] <musashi> we'd still get one in
[02:46] <tiborio> monthly +1
[02:47] <siblog> monthly +1
[02:47] <nealmcb> [vote] all in favor of meetings every 2 weeks
[02:47] <MootBot> Please vote on:  all in favor of meetings every 2 weeks.
[02:47] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[02:47] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[02:47] <MitchM> +1
[02:47] <musashi> i still think bi will get more involvement even if most only go to one of them
[02:47] <MootBot> +1 received from MitchM. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[02:47] <musashi> we can stillhave the log
[02:47] <nealmcb> +1
[02:47] <MootBot> +1 received from nealmcb. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[02:47] <nealmcb> for the time being at least
[02:47] <btrigg> +1
[02:47] <MootBot> +1 received from btrigg. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[02:48] <MitchM> aye.
[02:48] <MitchM> it can always be revised
[02:48] <Whelpo> 0
[02:48] <Whelpo> +0
[02:48] <MootBot> Abstention received from Whelpo. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[02:48] <nealmcb> next we can vote on monthly, then every 2 months
[02:48] <nealmcb> or someone can figure out a better voting method :-)
[02:48] <musashi> +0
[02:48] <MootBot> Abstention received from musashi. 3 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
[02:48] <Whelpo> is there anyway to recover one's own password from NickServ?
[02:49]  * nealmcb wonders if there is a way to find out who hasn't voted
[02:49] <nealmcb> [endvote]
[02:49] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 3
[02:49] <MitchM> bad results :S
[02:49] <nealmcb> [vote] all in favor of meetings every month
[02:49] <MootBot> Please vote on:  all in favor of meetings every month.
[02:49] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[02:49] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[02:49] <nealmcb> -1
[02:49] <MootBot> -1 received from nealmcb. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[02:49] <tiborio> +1
[02:49] <MootBot> +1 received from tiborio. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
[02:50] <btrigg> -1
[02:50] <MootBot> -1 received from btrigg. 1 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[02:50] <MitchM> 0
[02:50] <nealmcb> though actually I may prefer monthly - hard to think and scribe at the same time....
[02:50] <MitchM> aye.
[02:50] <siblog> 0
[02:50] <MitchM> +1
[02:50] <MootBot> +1 received from MitchM. 2 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
[02:50] <musashi> didn't we just do this?
[02:50]  * MitchM has changed his tide.
[02:50] <Whelpo> +1
[02:50] <MootBot> +1 received from Whelpo. 3 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[02:50] <nealmcb> this is monthly, not every 2 weeks - we'll compare totals
[02:50] <MitchM> this is for monthly as oppsed to bi-monthly
[02:51] <musashi> i thought monthy was the first.
[02:51] <MitchM> me too.
[02:51]  * musashi is confused
[02:51] <MitchM> *chuckles*
[02:51] <tiborio> For the future: we should have an online surveying capability on our website and post about specific surveys on the list to get more people to vote?
[02:51] <MitchM> [idea] add vote mechanism to website
[02:51] <MootBot> IDEA received:  add vote mechanism to website
[02:51] <siblog> good idea ;-)
[02:51] <nealmcb> it doesn't matter who casts the votes - all that matters is who counts them    muu hooo wwaaaaa
[02:51] <MitchM> [idea] set next meeting then plan 'reoccurence' of meetings
[02:51] <MootBot> IDEA received:  set next meeting then plan 'reoccurence' of meetings
[02:51] <musashi> okay, i'm +1 for monthly but still think bi would be better so +2 for that
[02:52] <nealmcb> would someone be willing to send this one to the list?
[02:52] <MitchM> I will
[02:52] <nealmcb> [endvote]
[02:52] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 2 against. 0 abstained. Total: 1
[02:52] <nealmcb> +1 to mitch
[02:52] <MitchM> [idea] ask list for occurence of meetings
[02:52] <MootBot> IDEA received:  ask list for occurence of meetings
[02:52] <nealmcb> next meeting - can we manage one in dec?  e.g. the 17th?
[02:53] <MitchM> [idea] Next Meeting -> dec 17th ?
[02:53] <nealmcb> (3 weeks :-)
[02:53] <MootBot> IDEA received:  Next Meeting -> dec 17th ?
[02:53] <musashi> should work for me
[02:53] <MitchM> shound about right.
[02:53] <tiborio> works for me
[02:53] <MitchM> sounds*
[02:53] <nealmcb> woot!
[02:53] <btrigg> yes.
[02:53] <MitchM> topic -> last words !
[02:53] <tiborio> famous?
[02:53] <nealmcb> [agreed] next meeting monday dec 17th
[02:53] <MootBot> AGREED received:  next meeting monday dec 17th
[02:53] <musashi> but getting more than 6 or 7 would be nice
[02:54] <nealmcb> [topic] any more agenda items?
[02:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  any more agenda items?
[02:54] <MitchM> [idea] ask for mootbot 24 hours ahead of time for #ubuntu-colorado
[02:54] <MootBot> IDEA received:  ask for mootbot 24 hours ahead of time for #ubuntu-colorado
[02:54] <musashi> ubucon?
[02:54] <MitchM> [idea] ask for mootbot in #ubuntu-scribes
[02:54] <MootBot> IDEA received:  ask for mootbot in #ubuntu-scribes
[02:54] <nealmcb> [topic] ubucon
[02:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  ubucon
[02:54] <MitchM> When... where!?
[02:54] <MitchM> :D
[02:54] <musashi> boulder?
[02:54] <nealmcb> ubucon: The other night I peeked into the new Google office in Boulder - nice, good location.  Prominent pingpong table and climbing wall just inside the entrance :-)   We should do an ubucon there in January.  Dates?
[02:54] <musashi> whenever it can be planned
[02:55] <musashi> +1 nealmcb
[02:55] <MitchM> +1 nealmcb
[02:55] <musashi> climbing wall? what a place to work
[02:55] <tiborio> yes. the stress make you climb up the wall!
[02:55] <tiborio> ;-)
[02:55] <musashi> idea --> how does a high school teacher get a job at google?
[02:55] <nealmcb> sat jan 12th?
[02:56] <tiborio> musashi: start it
[02:56] <siblog> noob question: what be ubucon?
[02:56] <MitchM> [idea] ubucon -> sat jan 12th?
[02:56] <MootBot> IDEA received:  ubucon -> sat jan 12th?
[02:56] <MitchM> I'll probably be snowboarding - but i may be coerced into Ubuconing !
[02:56] <nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubucon-Boulder
[02:56] <musashi> !ubuncon
[02:56] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ubuncon - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[02:56] <musashi> !ubucon
[02:56] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ubucon - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[02:56] <tiborio> how about asking the list on that?
[02:56] <musashi> darn
[02:56] <MitchM> +1 nealmcb to ask the list
[02:57] <nealmcb> [idea] if there is room, we should invite all the local lugs etc
[02:57] <MootBot> IDEA received:  if there is room, we should invite all the local lugs etc
[02:57] <MitchM> +1
[02:57] <musashi> but not the gentoo people :)
[02:57] <tiborio> is the space guaranteed? nealmcb
[02:57] <nealmcb> [agreed] nealmcb will check it out a bit more then post to the list about jan 12th ubucon at google
[02:57] <MootBot> AGREED received:  nealmcb will check it out a bit more then post to the list about jan 12th ubucon at google
[02:58] <nealmcb> tiborio: they are very helpful, but specific dates need to be worked out
[02:58] <MitchM> idea -> all hail mitchm ! (Meeting closing?)
[02:58] <musashi> already?
[02:58] <nealmcb> [topic] more agenda items?
[02:58] <MootBot> New Topic:  more agenda items?
[02:59] <MitchM> -1 : done with topics.
[02:59] <tiborio> about the leadership?? ;-)
[02:59] <MitchM> i'm bringing that to the list
[02:59] <nealmcb> tiborio: specifically?
[02:59] <MitchM> aye; specifics?
[02:59] <tiborio> never mind just kidding. :-)
[02:59] <nealmcb> the emperor has no clothes!  [well we don't know, do we :-)
[02:59] <MitchM> :D
[03:00] <nealmcb> but the emperor doesn't have an irc cloak :-)
[03:00] <musashi> emperor == MitchM ?
[03:00]  * nealmcb nods
[03:00] <nealmcb> "/whois mitchm"
[03:00] <nealmcb> anything else folks?
[03:00] <MitchM> n=mitchmah@unaffiliated/MitchM
[03:00] <MitchM> :DS
[03:01] <musashi> we can get a cloak right? just need to know where to ask and how
[03:01] <MitchM> you have to have the 'contacts'
[03:01] <MitchM> :D
[03:01] <tiborio> nothing else here :)
[03:01] <musashi> well, ubuntu members get one
[03:01] <nealmcb> "/whois mitchm"
[03:01] <nealmcb> much better....
[03:01] <Whelpo> instead of shirts we should have gone for cloaks?
[03:01] <MitchM> :D
[03:01] <musashi> MitchM, is our leader
[03:02] <nealmcb> anyone can get a cloak, but special cloaks have special requirements
[03:02] <nealmcb> Whelpo: great idea.  the goth look?
[03:02] <musashi> i want an invisibility cloak. that would be cool
[03:02] <nealmcb> or white cloaks?
[03:02] <MitchM> :D
[03:02] <nealmcb> time for #endmeeting?
[03:02] <MitchM> [:end:]
[03:02] <MitchM> *nods*
[03:02] <nealmcb> #endmeeting?
[03:03] <nealmcb> #endmeeting
[03:03] <MitchM> off-topic to -> -colorado
[03:03] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 03:03.
[03:03] <nealmcb> utc
[03:03] <MitchM> thanks everyone :D
[03:03] <tiborio> thank you all
[03:03] <musashi> yep-er-oni
[03:03] <MitchM> nealmcb, can you post a link to the meeting notes in our topic?
[03:03]  * nealmcb cheers for a quick meeting!
[03:03] <nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
[03:04] <nealmcb> http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20071127_0200.html
[13:21] <kraut> moin
[14:23] <zul> @schedule montreal
[14:23] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 29 Nov 09:00: Desktop Team Development | 01 Dec 14:00: Art Team
[15:57] <nealmcb> @schedule denver
[15:57] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Denver: 29 Nov 07:00: Desktop Team Development | 01 Dec 12:00: Art Team
[15:57] <nealmcb> unscheduled server team meeting in 3 minutes....
[15:57] <sommer> nealmcb: hey
[15:57] <nealmcb> sommer: howdy!
[15:57] <nijaba> hello
[15:58] <dendrobates> hi all.
[15:58] <nealmcb> thanks for the doc team commit
[15:58] <sommer> nealmcb: no problem at all
[15:58] <nealmcb> I just hope the gurus agree - and a more definitive statement on the lack of need for commercial certs for email would be nice
[15:59] <mathiaz> hi all !
[15:59]  * coffeedude waves to *
[15:59]  * ogra lurks
[16:00] <dholbach> hey nealmcb
[16:01] <nealmcb> mathiaz: at the beginning of the meeting I suggest the first topic be "attendance" in which people say their names - that will help mootbot keep attendance and help improve communication and let us know who is here
[16:01]  * nealmcb hugs dholbach
[16:01] <dendrobates> mathiaz will be running the meeting today, but I am here, just preoccupied.
[16:01]  * dholbach hugs nealmcb back :)))
[16:01] <mathiaz> nealmcb: mootboot keeps track of who talks during the meeting.
[16:01] <mathiaz> nealmcb: it generates such a list at the end of the meeting.
[16:02] <nealmcb> mathiaz: right - and attendance gives folks a chance to say they were here even if they don't otherwise have something to say
[16:02] <mathiaz> nealmcb: moreover people can arrive late withouth being noticed.
[16:02] <nijaba> mathiaz: I think nealmcb meant real names
[16:02] <nealmcb> that too
[16:02] <mathiaz> nijaba: irc nicknames make more sense I think.
[16:02] <nealmcb> e.g. valuable lurkers like ogra :-)
[16:02] <ogra> :)
[16:02] <nealmcb> mathiaz: well the nick would be saying the name so we'd have both
[16:02] <mathiaz> ok. let's get started then.
[16:03] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:03. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:03]  * soren wanders in (confused)
[16:03] <mathiaz> as suggested by nealmcb: who's around ?
[16:03] <nealmcb> Neal McBurnett
[16:03] <nijaba> Nicolas Barcet
[16:03] <soren> Soren Hansen
[16:03] <sommer> Adam Sommer
[16:03]  * ScottK is here
[16:03] <coffeedude> Jerry Carter
[16:04] <mathiaz> Mathias Gug
[16:04] <dendrobates> Rick Clark
[16:04] <ScottK> ivoks sent regrets in the agenda, so he gets all the actions.
[16:04] <soren> \o/
[16:05] <mathiaz> Today's agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:06] <mathiaz> There isn't so much for now.
[16:06] <mathiaz> Anyone wants to add an item for discussion ?
[16:06] <soren> We need testing of the server stuff here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html  kthxbye
[16:07] <soren> I just wanted to shout that. No discussion. Just do it. :)
[16:07] <coffeedude> mathiaz: re: the LDAP client tools I signed up for at UDS...
[16:07] <soren> coffeedude: Are the done? Whee!
[16:07] <coffeedude> soren: nope.
[16:07] <nxvl_work> soren: yes sir!
[16:07] <soren> aw..
[16:07] <coffeedude> mathiaz: it will be a few more weeks before I can find the time.  But still on the list.
[16:08] <coffeedude> mathiaz: do we have a spec up?
[16:08] <mathiaz> coffeedude: ok.
[16:08] <mathiaz> coffeedude: I think there is one somewhere.
[16:08] <coffeedude> mathiaz: I'll follow up after the meeting and track it down.
[16:08] <mathiaz> dendrobates was supposed to draft the client side of the ldap integration.
[16:09] <ScottK> When can we start doing MIR for stuff on the Hardy package list spec?
[16:09] <coffeedude> mathiaz: fair enough.  I'll chat with dendrobates later then.
[16:09] <mathiaz> ScottK: that one of the spec too.
[16:09] <mathiaz> Ok so - let's move on to the next topic
[16:09] <ScottK> mathiaz: Yes.  So when can we do the MIR?
[16:10] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:10]  * nealmcb forgets what MIR is, besides peace
[16:10] <soren> And world.
[16:10] <ScottK> Main Inclusion Request
[16:10] <soren> Report.
[16:10] <ScottK> Yeah.  That
[16:10] <mathiaz> Last meeting log: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20071120
[16:10] <soren> We fixed the sudo bug thing.
[16:11] <mathiaz> Re sudo bug discussion: fixed !
[16:11] <soren> Er... Well... We found it.
[16:11] <soren> And made an ammendment to the release notes about not using the "no config" option for postfix.
[16:11] <mathiaz> soren: yes...
[16:11] <nealmcb> should we talk about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgrey/+bug/135038
[16:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135038 in db4.4 "postgrey fails regularly : "fatal: Can't call method "txn_commit" on an undefined value at /usr/sbin/postgrey line 223." (dup-of: 153996)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153996 in db4.4 "libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion" [Unknown,Fix released]
[16:12] <mathiaz> I've spent some time working on the Ruby On Rails spec
[16:12] <jdstrand> soren: is the installer fixed for hardy?
[16:12] <soren> jdstrand: Yes.
[16:12] <mathiaz> it has been approved.
[16:12] <jdstrand> soren: praise be to soren :)
[16:12] <mathiaz> nijaba: what about your JeOS tutorial ?
[16:12] <zul> hey
[16:12] <nijaba> mathiaz: first draft in review
[16:13] <mathiaz> nijaba: where ?
[16:13] <soren> It's awaiting my review. Just like 27.000 other things. But I'm not bitter.
[16:13] <nijaba> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOS
[16:13] <mathiaz> ivoks started to work on dovecot+postfix integration.
[16:14] <nealmcb> nijaba: cool - I'll look at it!!
[16:14] <mathiaz> the proposal is to use a postinst script in the mail-server task.
[16:14] <ScottK> mathiaz: I asked a guy I work with on a consulting project who does lots of Ruby stuff to look at the spec and he said, "It's on the right track" - meaning good enough he didn't think he needed to invest time in making it better.
[16:14] <mathiaz> ScottK: excellent ! Thanks.
[16:14]  * ScottK would like to throw in some praise for ivoks on dovecot + postfix.  It's good and important work he's doing.
[16:15] <dendrobates> nijaba: I read through it, great job!
[16:15] <nijaba> dendrobates: thanks
[16:16] <mathiaz> Ok. Seems that last meeting actions were taken.
[16:17] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:17] <nijaba> I dd find out that lvm has a problem in JeOS in the process of writing the tuto
[16:17] <mathiaz> nijaba: did you filed a bug ?
[16:17] <nijaba> soren says that it is in the seed but not in the package list
[16:18] <nijaba> nope, soren said not necessary...  should I ?
[16:18] <mathiaz> nijaba: I don't think so.
[16:18] <soren> I think it's pointless.
[16:18] <mathiaz> The roadmap can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:18] <nealmcb> is it fixed?
[16:18] <nijaba> in the tuto: yes
[16:19] <mathiaz> I've started to update the wiki page wrt the plan for Hardy.
[16:19] <soren> We're going to completely redo the cd building stuff for it.
[16:19] <soren> ...and the bug is in the old cd building system.
[16:19] <nealmcb> so is it just an iso problem?
[16:19] <soren> Er.. Yes.
[16:19] <nealmcb> not ubuntu-jeos-builder?
[16:20] <soren> No. (Maybe now you see why it's a good idea to rename one of those)
[16:20] <nealmcb> well the whole point of jeos is that there are lots - one per application in some sense.  so maybe the iso shouldn't be jeos?
[16:21] <sommer> mathiaz: it may be a good idea to add something about ivoks postfix+dovecot work to the packager corner.
[16:21] <nealmcb> but I'm happy for both to be jeos - enough jeos for all.  but I'll read the wiki and think some more
[16:21] <mathiaz> sommer: good idea.
[16:22] <mathiaz> sommer: wanna add it ?
[16:22] <sommer> sure will do
[16:23] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to add a section about dovecot+postfix in packager section of the roadmap.
[16:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to add a section about dovecot+postfix in packager section of the roadmap.
[16:23] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I've seen your proposal for the factoids.
[16:23] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:23] <nealmcb> more to come, but that is a start for the mail-related ones
[16:24] <mathiaz> nealmcb: when do you plan to add them to ubotu ?
[16:24] <nealmcb> as soon as ScottK or lamont or some guru says they look ok
[16:24] <soren> As I wrote in my e-mail half an hour ago, I don't see any particular reason why we can't just add them now. Changing them later is easy, afaik?
[16:25] <mathiaz> soren: yes. I've done that already.
[16:25] <nealmcb> sounds good
[16:25] <soren> mathiaz: Er.. I just tried in #ubuntu-server? No go.
[16:25] <soren> mathiaz: Or are we talking about different things?
[16:25] <nealmcb> mathiaz: what is it you did?
[16:26] <mathiaz> soren: I didn't add the factoids
[16:26] <mathiaz> I meant that I already fixed some entries a couple of weeks ago and that it was a simple process.
[16:26] <soren> mathiaz: Oh!
[16:26] <nealmcb> good
[16:26] <ScottK> There was a fun thread on postfix-users today (speaking of factoids makes me think of webmin) http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2007-11/1324.html
[16:27] <soren> Great. In that case, just add them. We'll change them as we go along. There's not need to bureaucratise it :)
[16:27] <mathiaz> nealmcb: up for that ^^ ?
[16:27] <nealmcb> yup
[16:27] <lamont> nealmcb: hip deep in day-job stuff right now, I'll make time this week to review that
[16:28] <nealmcb> lamont: thanks
[16:28] <nealmcb> bother, those day jobs :-)
[16:29] <mathiaz> sommer: what are you plan for the server guide ?
[16:29] <mathiaz> sommer: is the section about ServerGuide for Hardy still relevant ?
[16:29] <sommer> mathiaz: currently working on updating the DNS seciton.
[16:29] <sommer> yes, I'm not sure about Paul's link though
[16:30] <sommer> also ScottK and lamont are in the process of reviewing a Mail Filtering section.
[16:31] <mathiaz> sommer: could you cleanup the help.ubuntu.com section also ?
[16:31] <ScottK> For some definition of "in the process" that means I'm planning on doing it.
[16:31] <sommer> mathiaz: sure, no problem
[16:31] <mathiaz> sommer: so that we have more visibility on what needs to be done.
[16:31] <mathiaz> sommer: you could also add new ones, so that people can start contributing if they're interested.
[16:32] <sommer> mathiaz: back before the Gutsy release there was sort of a "theme" as far as bugs go... are we going to continue that?
[16:32] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to update the section about wiki page on help.ubuntu.com
[16:32] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to update the section about wiki page on help.ubuntu.com
[16:32] <sommer> because I could update the h.u.c section based on that
[16:33] <mathiaz> sommer: hum... That would be a good idea.
[16:33] <nealmcb> I guess we need to get some web site admins to help with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc/+bug/122297
[16:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122297 in ubuntu-doc "Server Guide draft has higher Google rank than released version" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:33] <lamont> nealmcb: send me a pointer to the factoids, ok?
[16:33] <nealmcb> lamont: you bet
[16:34] <mathiaz> sommer: I've added a section to triage samba bugs.
[16:34] <mathiaz> sommer: may be you could list wiki pages on h.u.c related to samba that needs to be updated ?
[16:34] <sommer> sure, sounds good to me
[16:35] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer add samba related pages from h.u.c that needs to be cleaned up.
[16:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer add samba related pages from h.u.c that needs to be cleaned up.
[16:35] <mathiaz> For the developer corner, I've removed the old spec from Gutsy.
[16:36] <mathiaz> I'll add the new specs we're working on for Hardy.
[16:36] <mathiaz> ScottK: That will include the MIR spec.
[16:37] <ScottK> nealmcb: Surely that's invalid as a bug.
[16:37] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will update the Developer section of the Roadmpa with the specs for hardy.
[16:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz will update the Developer section of the Roadmpa with the specs for hardy.
[16:38] <ScottK> mathiaz: So how do I know when to start working on actually doing the MIR?
[16:38] <nealmcb> website bug?  the bad pages should redirect or link to somewhere useful
[16:38] <mathiaz> ScottK: the plan is to create a wiki page with the list of MIR we wanna do.
[16:38] <ScottK> I don't think Google's ranking of pages is a valid bug.
[16:38] <ScottK> mathiaz: I thought we had that already from UDS?
[16:38] <mathiaz> ScottK: and then start doing them :)
[16:39] <nealmcb> ScottK: the point is that our website shows outdated information, and people searching for info should get good info
[16:39] <mathiaz> ScottK: yes. There was a lot of them. We just need to create/update the wiki page so that we can track correctly what has been done.
[16:39] <ScottK> mathiaz: OK.
[16:40] <ScottK> nealmcb: OK.  I just looked at the title of the bug.
[16:40] <mathiaz> ScottK: OTOH it should not stop you from writing MIR
[16:40] <nealmcb> and there are things we can do to improve the rank of good pages
[16:40] <ScottK> mathiaz: OK.  That's what I wanted to hear.
[16:40] <nealmcb> like site maps
[16:40] <mathiaz> ScottK: Anyone can write a MIR.
[16:41] <ScottK> mathiaz: Yes, I know. I've done them before, just didn't want to get ahead of the plan.
[16:41] <nijaba> mathiaz: about MIR, do you want me to change the spec to a table with owner and status for each package ?
[16:41] <mathiaz> nijaba: that would be great !
[16:41] <nijaba> I'll do it tonight then
[16:42] <ScottK> nijaba: Would you put me down for amavisd-new?
[16:42] <nijaba> ScottK: sure
[16:42] <ScottK> Thanks
[16:42] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba will update the MIR spec to make it easy to track the state of writting the MIRs.
[16:42] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba will update the MIR spec to make it easy to track the state of writting the MIRs.
[16:42] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ScottK will write the amavisd-new MIR.
[16:42] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK will write the amavisd-new MIR.
[16:43] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:44] <mathiaz> nealmcb: you mentionned a postgrey bug
[16:44] <nealmcb> ahh - any other business....
[16:44] <soren> Did I mention http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html ?
[16:44] <nealmcb> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postgrey/+bug/135038
[16:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135038 in db4.4 "postgrey fails regularly : "fatal: Can't call method "txn_commit" on an undefined value at /usr/sbin/postgrey line 223." (dup-of: 153996)" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153996 in db4.4 "libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion" [Unknown,Fix released]
[16:44] <mathiaz> soren: I'm not sure... But better more than never :)
[16:45] <nealmcb> I'd love lamont to look at that - db4.4 bug that also affects svn
[16:45] <soren> mathiaz: Yeah, totally. I really wasn't sure if I had already brought up that we need to test the stuff on  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
[16:45] <sommer> soren: just an fyi... I bookmarked the link
[16:45]  * soren hugs sommer
[16:45] <mathiaz> soren: The link should be added to the server roadmap then.
[16:46] <nealmcb> and maybe apache, etc.  maybe needs an sru?  lamont added the patch that is proposed to be reverted
[16:46] <nijaba> soren: I think that you already mentioned that we need to test the stuff on  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
[16:46]  * nijaba waves at kees
[16:46] <soren> nijaba: Oh, good. I really wouldn't be good if we forgot to talk about  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html, so it's good that I remembered to mention http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html.
[16:46] <nealmcb> soren: what was that url again?
[16:46] <lamont> nealmcb: I feel no ownership for apache...
[16:46] <soren> I forget :(
[16:46] <sommer> lol
[16:47] <nealmcb> lamont: it was a db4.4 patch
[16:47] <nealmcb> to default to posix threads or something
[16:48] <lamont> that'd be a doko question
[16:48] <nealmcb> ok
[16:48]  * lamont was just a puppet
[16:48]  * nealmcb has a hard time picturing that, but moves on :-)
[16:48] <mathiaz> Anyone wants to add something ?
[16:49] <nijaba> just for fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6L51uZjaZU
[16:49]  * soren resists the tempatation to bring up http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html again
[16:51] <nealmcb> nijaba: what is the history of that video?
[16:51] <nijaba> nealmcb: we are running a test on some web site in NA to see how people respond to adds
[16:52] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
[16:52] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
[16:52] <nealmcb> nijaba: cute :-)
[16:52] <mathiaz> Do we need another meeting next week ?
[16:52] <ScottK> mathiaz: I think frequent short meetings are good.
[16:52] <nijaba> nealmcb: I don't like that one as much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkMlCeDu-0c
[16:52] <mathiaz> We should have the lest of specs for Hardy.
[16:52] <ScottK> mathiaz: Do we need an action on the db4.4 bug?
[16:53] <mathiaz> ScottK: what would be needed ?
[16:53] <ScottK> Fixing it.
[16:53] <nealmcb> someone who knows hime contacting doku?
[16:53] <ScottK> That or hounding doko until he fixes it.
[16:53] <nealmcb> preparing an sru?
[16:53] <nealmcb> or is that different?
[16:54] <nijaba> don't forget that we also need doku for idedtea
[16:54] <nealmcb> Sure - I'll have a refill!
[16:54] <ScottK> nealmcb: We'd need a patch and then someone would need to fix Hardy (assuming it's broken too) and then an SRU.
[16:54] <mathiaz> ScottK: Is the bug fixed in Hardy ?
[16:55] <ScottK> mathiaz: I've no idea.
[16:55] <nealmcb> the patch is there
[16:55] <nealmcb> I don't think it is in hardy
[16:55] <mathiaz> ScottK: yes. First it needs to be fixed in Hardy (which is probably the case as debian fixed it.
[16:55] <ScottK> mathiaz: It's in Main, so I don't worry about it.
[16:55] <nealmcb> it is a 2line patch to revert a previous patch
[16:55]  * ScottK looks around for a core-dev
[16:55] <mathiaz> nealmcb: so first it needs to be fixed in hardy.
[16:55] <nealmcb> what I don't know is why folks wanted the original patch - maybe performance with threads?
[16:55] <nealmcb> fixed in debian I think
[16:56] <mathiaz> ok. We're running out of time.
[16:56] <mathiaz> Next meeting: next week, same time, same place ?
[16:56] <sommer> sounds good to me
[16:56] <nealmcb> yeah
[16:57] <ScottK> nealmcb: On your factoid list, I don't think you should use the word default since none of them are in fact installed by default.
[16:57] <nealmcb> ScottK: good point
[16:57] <ScottK> mathiaz: Who's following up on db4.4?
[16:57] <nealmcb> soren - 27001?
[16:57] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:57] <soren> :(
[16:58] <mathiaz> ScottK: I'll have a look into it.
[16:58] <nealmcb> :-)
[16:58] <ScottK> nealmcb: Also, I'd mention Postfix and Mail Tranfer Agent in there too
[16:58] <ScottK> mathiaz: Thanks.
[16:58]  * soren hugs mathiaz
[16:58] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to follow up on bug 153996
[16:58] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153996 in db4.4 "libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153996
[16:58] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to follow up on bug 153996
[16:58] <nealmcb> ScottK: I talk about them - where are you looking?
[16:58] <nealmcb> ahh - full factoids for them?
[16:58] <ScottK> nealmcb: At the message you sent to the ML.
[16:59] <mathiaz> Next meeting: next week, same time, same place.
[16:59] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[16:59] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:59.
[16:59] <nealmcb> thanks all!
[16:59] <mathiaz> Thanks all - happy merging !
[16:59] <nijaba> thanks, see you next week!
[17:00] <sommer> later all
[17:00]  * jdstrand wave