[00:01] <LaserJock> persia: well, something like that
[00:01] <LaserJock> I just think that patch flag and patch tag are terribly confusing
[00:01] <Fujitsu> mok0: What gives you that idea?
[00:02]  * jdong first slaps superm1 for his use of HTML mail without an ASCII part :)
[00:02] <persia> LaserJock: I can't argue with that, and that was essentially the point that was made to cause me to write the email :)
[00:02] <LaserJock> patch-verified might work
[00:02] <mok0> Fujitsu: If I click on Universe I get a bunch of junk displayed, no text
[00:03] <superm1> jdong, i still don't know what the "proper" thing to send out is, HTML or ASCII in certain cases :)
[00:03] <jdong> superm1: and what is the final decision on what exactly to do with the gtkpod/gtkpod-aac dichotomy?
[00:03] <superm1> well there were no complaints against the idea
[00:03] <jdong> superm1: I'm fine with HTML mail, I just prefer if a plaintext part was also attached to it (mailer settings)
[00:03] <superm1> so i would say carry on?
[00:03] <jdong> superm1: do you have any examples of packages that do a two-stage build like this so I can follow as an example?
[00:04] <superm1> jdong, lets see.  i know i have come across some.
[00:04]  * superm1 thinks
[00:04] <jdong> superm1: as from a technical standpoint I don't know how to conditionally build-dep on packages... :-/
[00:04] <Fujitsu> mok0: Your browser probably doesn't support gzip.
[00:04] <slangasek> hypertext malignant lymphoma
[00:04]  * Fujitsu agrees with slangasek.
[00:04] <mok0> Fujitsu: It's an index.html file...
[00:05] <slangasek> Fujitsu: are you sure? I could be an oncologist and lymphomas are my thing
[00:05] <mok0> Fujitsu: http://popcon.ubuntu.com/universe/index.html
[00:06] <Fujitsu> mok0: Works for me.
[00:06] <jdong> mok0: renders for me too
[00:06] <superm1> jdong, well oh yeah mplayer already does i think
[00:06] <superm1> because it runs once to do mencoder only
[00:06] <mok0> Huh? Weird
[00:06] <superm1> and then once for mplayer itself
[00:06]  * mok0 tries another browser
[00:06] <Fujitsu> superm1: And then there's mplayer-nogui.
[00:07] <superm1> ah that's probably what the two step build was mplayer-nogui and normal mplayer not mplayer and mencoder
[00:07] <Fujitsu> It runs twice, once without a GUI, and copies the mencoder binary from one of them.
[00:07] <jdong> superm1: right but mplayer itself is in a multiverse section right?
[00:07] <superm1> yeah it is right now
[00:07] <jdong> I mean, for this to work with gtkpod I need to build-dep on a multiverse package
[00:08] <jdong> which I'm pretty sure will result in complaints ;-)
[00:08] <superm1> ah the whole ogre build model thing?
[00:10] <superm1> slangasek, well to build depend on something in say multiverse, does your source package need to be in multiverse too then?
[00:10] <Fujitsu> superm1: Yes.
[00:10] <superm1> well so that is a consequence that wasn't brought up.  these source packages would have to be moved
[00:12] <LaserJock> you always gotta account for the ogre ;-)
[00:13] <superm1> well then the question still remains, is this feasible
[00:15] <jdong> hmm depends on the policy for a multiverse source package generating main/universe packages.
[00:16] <jdong> it sounds a lot more flaky now than it did before.
[00:17] <superm1> yeah.  well do you want to post this back to the ML since the others who discussed aren't present?
[00:17] <superm1> ffmpeg and mplayer can still carry forward
[00:17] <superm1> so as soon as i've got some time to do so, i'll handle those
[00:18] <StevenK> ,
[00:18] <StevenK> ~~
[00:19] <StevenK> Um. Grah
[00:20] <LaserJock> man, my first Hardy upload
[00:20] <LaserJock> and it even built on all archs, how lovely
[00:21] <StevenK> LaserJock: You're a bit late, aren't you?
[00:21] <TheMuso> Ok, even more crazy/c
[00:21] <TheMuso> ugh
[00:21] <TheMuso> wrong channel
[00:21]  * StevenK takes a drink
[00:21] <StevenK> :-P
[00:22] <ajmitch> a bit early for that, isn't it?
[00:22]  * ajmitch starts listing off LP bugs for StevenK 
[00:22] <StevenK> Hah
[00:24]  * LaserJock takes a loooong drink and looks heads of to his blog
[00:24] <LaserJock> bah, s/looks//
[00:25] <ajmitch> ponies!
[00:30] <zul> hey
[00:37] <LaserJock> dang, it's amazing how huge a source tree can get when building
[00:38] <azeem> are you building gtk+?
[00:38] <LaserJock> no, openbabel
[00:38] <azeem> ah :)
[00:38] <azeem> that one's pretty big as well
[00:39] <LaserJock> goes from 48MB to 488MB
[00:39] <azeem> I usually ^z the build process and frantically clean up other parts of the build partition to make room :)
[00:39] <LaserJock> I don't know why a library is so huge
[00:39] <azeem> LaserJock: because in ubuntu all the plugins are linked statically I thiknk
[00:39] <azeem> think*
[00:39] <LaserJock> this is just from source
[00:39] <azeem> you could check for that
[00:40] <azeem> hrm, no
[00:40] <LaserJock> I'm building it in OS X
[00:40] <azeem> Build needed 00:26:44, 414992k disk space
[00:40] <azeem> well, it's C++...
[00:40] <lifeless> debug symbol bloatage ftw
[00:40] <LaserJock> right now openbabel takes much longer to build and is bigger than any of the apps that use it :-)
[00:41] <lifeless> thats a good thing right ?
[00:41] <LaserJock> I can't figure out what it does that needs so much
[00:41] <LaserJock> azeem: isn't openbabel mostly file format conversion?
[00:42] <LaserJock> granted it's converting between like 80 different formats, but still
[00:42] <azeem> it does some other stuff as well
[00:42] <azeem> 2.1.1 is equipped with force fields
[00:42] <azeem> they might've blown up the build tree
[00:42] <LaserJock> hmm, true
[00:43] <azeem> Build needed 00:52:32, 208176k disk space
[00:43] <azeem> that's for 2.0.2
[00:43] <LaserJock> ah
[00:43] <LaserJock> tool twice as long though?
[00:44] <azeem> that might've been with my old notebook
[00:44] <azeem> though dunno, it wasn't much slower
[00:44] <LaserJock> 52 minutes is nuts
[00:44] <azeem> well, could be that there was memory pressure and it was swapping a lot
[00:44] <LaserJock> I feel like I'm using gentoo again
[00:44] <LaserJock> ;-)
[00:46] <cprov-out> LaserJock: ping
[00:47] <StevenK> Oh yes.
[00:47] <StevenK> ubuntu/logs/ghc6_6.6.1-2build1_20070803-2312:Build needed 02:49:19, 1285120k disk space
[00:47] <azeem> Build needed 00:10:10, 107720k disk space
[00:47] <azeem> those were the good time
[00:47] <azeem> s
[00:47] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Fairly big...
[00:47] <LaserJock> cprov-out: yeah?
[00:48] <cprov-out> LaserJock: do you have some minutes to help me with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/165230
[00:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165230 in soyuz "PPA generates an endlessly upgrading package" [Undecided,In progress]
[00:48] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Longest build I have.
[00:49] <Fujitsu> cprov-out: Is that due to a mis-capitalised priority or something? IIRC, that was the issue last time I saw something like that.
[00:50] <cprov-out> Fujitsu: yes, I thought that too, but it doesn't seems to be the case, priority is already lowercase
[00:51] <Fujitsu>  Hmm, the Packages file there looks fine.
[00:57] <ylan> http://www.archivum.info/linux.debian.bugs.dist/2006-09/msg06713.html anybody know the reason why nothing is being done about this
[00:57] <ylan> ?
[01:01] <Flannel> ylan: because it looks like its maintainer has abandoned it (no updates since Aug 2005)
[01:18] <freakabcd> hi all
[01:19] <crimsun> hi.
[01:19] <freakabcd> I wanted to have a simple discussion about octave 2.9-forge package(s) which will be forthcoming (from me or otherwise)
[01:20] <freakabcd> octave has its own system of installing forge packages; using the 'pkg' builtin. this is similar to installing perl modules from within perl
[01:20] <freakabcd> now, these forge packages use a pretty standard makefile within the tar file. A sample octave2.9-forge-statistics has been made by someone.
[01:21] <freakabcd> The rules file actually calls 'octave --eval "pkg install blah.tar.gz"'
[01:22] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:22] <freakabcd> should this route be take or should the package be extracted and compiled and installed via the rules file directly?
[01:22] <freakabcd> hello bddebian
[01:23] <bddebian> Hello freakabcd
[01:25] <crimsun> freakabcd: has this been raised to the Debian Octave Group?
[01:25] <crimsun> (<pkg-octave-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org>)
[01:25] <freakabcd> crimsun, thats where the discussion is going on, heh
[01:26] <freakabcd> not discussion really. just some guy made a sample statistics package
[01:26] <freakabcd> and he actually calls octave --eval "pkg install ..."
[01:26] <crimsun> hmph.
[01:26] <crimsun> well, that approach requires a build-dependency on octave, no?
[01:26] <freakabcd> i was wondering if this is the right method to go. or extract the package and install manually without calling octave
[01:27] <freakabcd> yeah
[01:27] <freakabcd> thats why i was very surprised. cos people wanting to installed octave 'modules' will need to have octave-dev installed
[01:28] <crimsun> my opinion is that build-depending on octave seems excessive.
[01:28] <crimsun> i.e., "After unpacking 35.6MB of additional disk space will be used."
[01:28] <freakabcd> lemme send a mail to the list and see what they say
[01:28] <crimsun> err
[01:28] <crimsun> "Need to get 10.8MB of archives."
[01:28] <freakabcd> i didn;t work out the size of the d/ls. but i will agree that it is excessive
[01:28] <freakabcd> anyway, i'll mail now
[01:29] <crimsun> ok.
[01:30] <freakabcd> crimsun, silly question: should i hit 'reply all' ? if i do that the mail is sent To: person + CC:list
[01:30] <freakabcd> thats not what i want, i assume. and just hitting reply gives me To:person :(
[01:31] <persia> freakabcd: If Reply-To: is not ideally set, you might use "reply all", and manually tune the recipients list.
[01:31] <freakabcd> ok
[01:32] <somerville32> Why would you not want it set to To: person + CC:list?
[01:33] <persia> somerville32: some people's clients aren't smart enough to keep them from getting it twice, and it can confuse filters.
[01:33] <freakabcd> somerville32, cos all the messages i see in the thread and on the list are To:list
[01:33] <crimsun> sorry, was "bzr push"ing
[01:34] <freakabcd> exactly. i don;t want to send a copy to the user when he will receive it anyway. and don;t want to create a new message as it will break threading. manual tweaking it is
[01:35] <persia> freakabcd: The important bit is that your reference header (In-Reply-To:) is set correctly: that will preserve threading (even for a new message).
[01:35] <crimsun> I normally adjust the To: and CC:.  I also note as much at the top of the reply.
[01:35] <crimsun> e.g., [Adding ubuntu-motu@ to CC:]
[02:09] <TheMuso> c/c
[02:09] <TheMuso> damn fingers
[02:10] <persia> Finally.  The poor KVM is vindicated, and plots revenge on the false representative sack of protoplasm.
[02:10] <persia> s/false/falsely/
[02:12] <nxvl_work> i do a quilt patch all by myself and it seems to work :D
[02:12] <persia> nxvl: Hurrah!
[02:15] <nxvl_work> :D
[02:28] <LaserJock> wow, lots of drama over in Gnome-land
[02:32] <somerville32> :]
[02:33] <StevenK> LaserJock: Hum?
[02:33] <persia> planet.gnome.org has all the details
[02:34] <LaserJock> nothing like elections to bring out the best in people
[02:35] <alvinc> *chuckle*
[02:35] <alvinc> What's the drama?
[02:35] <alvinc> Or should I note ask?
[02:35] <persia> alvinc: Just politics
[02:35] <alvinc> Someone wants Obama and someone wants Hillary?
[02:36] <alvinc> Just kidding.  :)
[02:36] <LaserJock> alvinc: sort of
[02:44] <StevenK> Ugh.
[02:44] <LaserJock> StevenK: pretty good huh?
[02:44] <StevenK> Someone really really dislikes Jeff
[02:45] <LaserJock> apparently
[02:45] <Hobbsee> which jeff?
[02:45] <StevenK> Waugh
[02:46] <ajmitch> politics & infighting on public display
[02:46] <Hobbsee> ah
[02:47] <StevenK> And it isn't even Debian
[02:49] <somerville32> What is Jeff's IRC handle?
[02:49] <StevenK> jdub
[02:49] <LaserJock> I kinda surprised though that he's running
[02:49] <LaserJock> *I'm
[02:49] <somerville32> Why?
[02:50] <LaserJock> cause he doesn't seem that involved anymore, from my limited view
[03:01] <ryanakca> LaserJock: Mind updating the topic in -classroom for your class on Wednesday?
[03:01] <freakabcd> what classroom ?
[03:01] <freakabcd> theres a classroom channel?
[03:01] <ryanakca> freakabcd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
[03:03] <freakabcd> wow, tomorrow at 15 UTC, thats 25 or 01 here, grr..
[03:04] <LaserJock> it's 8am for me
[03:04] <freakabcd> ryanakca, 'personal package archives 101'
[03:04] <Hobbsee> freakabcd: 3am here, and i'm helping run it.  i win
[03:04] <freakabcd> what is that covering?
[03:04] <Hobbsee> launchpad's personal package archives
[03:04] <freakabcd> Hobbsee, you sure do then :)
[03:04] <freakabcd> bah.. i was hoping some motu-lecture
[03:05] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I would say that you're a masochist, but that's normal time for you
[03:05] <Hobbsee> ajmitch: well, i'll have worked that night, so i should be awake
[03:05] <pwnguin> think there'll be a lot of people now that ppas are out of beta?
[03:06]  * ajmitch thought that 1500 UTC would be 2AM for you
[03:06] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: But you are usually up at that time anyway.
[03:06] <ajmitch> so it's not *quite* so bad
[03:06] <Hobbsee> oh, maybe it is 2.  i thought it was 3.
[03:06] <TheMuso> I'd only do such a time if I had to attend a particular meeting.
[03:06] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: exactly
[03:06] <ajmitch> last I heard, NZ is at UTC+13
[03:07] <StevenK> Hobbsee is on UTC+15
[03:07] <Hobbsee> no, you're right, it is 2am
[03:07] <Hobbsee> my timezone stuff is still somewhat screwed
[03:07] <ajmitch> I would never have guessed
[03:08] <freakabcd> ok, i found the log for the 'packaging 101' held last year!
[03:08] <freakabcd> hopefully it has some good info.
[03:08] <freakabcd> or is that `old' information already?
[03:08] <ryanakca> freakabcd: hmm... the packaging guide is good too....
[03:08] <freakabcd> ryanakca, yeah i've read that. but lectures/classes are much nicer :D
[03:09] <Hobbsee> it should be mostly right
[03:09] <freakabcd> i'll read it when i get back home tonight
[03:15] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: so should we get a gameplan together for it? or do you just want to wing it?
[03:16] <freakabcd> Hobbsee, UTC+13? are we on DST now?
[03:16] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: gameplan is good, cprov said he's planning to email me about it.
[03:16] <Hobbsee> but has not done so yet.
[03:18] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: k, email me if he doesn't CC me on that
[03:18] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: of course.
[03:18] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i'd like to see a bit of an overview, the link to the quickstart page, then open it for questions.  i dont think the big blocks of text sessions have made it overly interesting before
[03:19] <StevenK> Hrm. Are "normal" LCDs high or low DPI?
[03:20] <pwnguin> kinda middling dpi
[03:20] <pwnguin> only 100
[03:20] <pwnguin> crappy crts are sometimes only 75 dpi
[03:24] <StevenK> xdpyinfo is reporting 95x96
[03:24] <ajmitch> that's probably about right
[03:26] <LaserJock> StevenK: mine is 96x96
[03:29] <StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
[03:30]  * ajmitch drinks up
[03:30] <StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies!
[03:30]  * LaserJock drowns
[03:33]  * Hobbsee drinks more
[03:33] <Hobbsee> oh excellent.  i'll need more than a few drinks before work, too
[03:38] <elvys_> Hi, Somebody knows how can I install Autopackages (Aplication)?
[03:41]  * persia , coming late to the discussion, notes that DPI and monitor quality are not entirely related: there are bad monitors with 200DPI and really nice ones with 60.
[03:43] <CyberMatt> Question what is the procedure for dealing with an upstream tarball that already has a debian/ directory
[03:43] <persia> CyberMatt: Complain to upstream, and then try to work around it (debhelper now supports --ignore)
[03:43] <CyberMatt> this is the LP by the way https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/164213
[03:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164213 in ubuntu "need-packaging burnstation" [Undecided,Triaged]
[03:45] <CyberMatt> its a pretty bad debian/ directory i've only neen packaging for like 3 months now and very basic stuff
[03:46] <persia> CyberMatt: That's fairly normal for upstream, and why the answer is "complain to upstream" before anything else :)
[03:47] <CyberMatt> yes i will
[03:47] <persia> CyberMatt: My experience is that most upstreams (even those that provide a base debian/ directory) will be happier to host a provided .dsc that someone else promises to maintain, rather than keeping track of packaging issues.
[03:50] <CyberMatt> makes sense oh my the last changelog entry from sarge no wonder their binary builds don't work
[03:51] <CyberMatt> didn't binary compatibility break at Hoary
[03:52] <persia> There was never a promise of binary compatibility (although some things seem to work even for Gutsy).  The build process is different: if that fails, it likely needs an update of some build-depends.
[03:55] <CyberMatt> How does the Ubuntu build process differ from debian exactly
[03:57] <persia> CyberMatt: Different configuration of the build servers, different versions of some libraries, different versions of some compilation tools.
[03:59] <CyberMatt> do you still use the buildd thing
[03:59] <persia> It's different, but there are buildds
[03:59] <slangasek> StevenK: don't make me flame you to a crisp for talking smack about Debian
[04:00] <CyberMatt> hmm the same one as the PPAs
[04:00] <StevenK> slangasek: Hah. Oh, the irony, it hurts
[04:02]  * persia suggests that permission to flame should be offered in direct proportion to number of bugs closed by uploads.
[04:03] <CyberMatt> I'm sort of a Network and VM freak so all this stuff is very interesting
[04:03]  * somerville32 grants persia a license to be a flammer.
[04:04] <persia> somerville32: My Debian count is 1: I'll save it :)
[04:05] <CyberMatt> hmm but what is your Ubuntu count persia
[04:06] <persia> CyberMatt: That's a larger number, but not really relevant to my failed attempt at humor
[04:07]  * Hobbsee randomly flames slangasek
[04:07]  * slangasek randomly basks in the warmth
[04:08] <CyberMatt> it was probably my inability to understand humor
[04:09] <CyberMatt> more then any failed attempt
[04:18] <Guest443> I have been trying to install Ubuntu for a while but no luck so far. How do i actually install it? Do i download a .iso image and burn it to the DVD?
[04:22] <Hobbsee> Guest443: yes.  and it sounds like an #ubuntu type question
[04:22] <TheMuso> Guest443: #ubuntu for support.
[04:27] <somerville32> Are we going to be using interdiffs now for pretty much everything instead of debdiffs now?
[04:28] <TheMuso> Interdiffs for new upstream only.
[04:28] <TheMuso> Debdiffs for packaging updates.
[04:28] <somerville32> What about package updates? Why do they need a full debdiff?
[04:28] <jdong> ah, so the interdiff won't show the bazillion changes in the orig.tar.gz?
[04:28] <somerville32> Isn't what got changed the important part?
[04:28] <jdong> makes sense
[04:28] <Fujitsu> jdong: That's the point, yep.
[04:29] <Fujitsu> somerville32: debdiffs show what got changed.
[04:29] <somerville32> Right, lol
[04:29] <jdong> Fujitsu: is there an easy way to apply an interdiff to an existing package?
[04:29]  * jdong has obviously never used interdiff
[04:29] <somerville32> An interdiff and a debdiff are pretty much the same thing for a package update
[04:30] <persia> jdong: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Interdiff has a procedure, although apparently there is a bug
[04:30] <jdong> somerville32: agreed
[04:30] <persia> somerville32: No.  An interdiff doesn't have the upstream changes.
[04:30] <somerville32> persia, Except if it is a package update and not a new upstream release, there isn't an upstream change so your point is moot :P
[04:30] <jdong> ah, *combinediff*
[04:31] <jdong> though the workflow for combining an interdiff looks to be ridiculously convoluted.
[04:31] <persia> somerville32: Ah.  Right.  True :)  I like debdiff better for that (and need to better differentiate "update" and "upgrade" in my parser)
[04:31] <jdong> I'd like to see something like interdiff-apply old_diff.gz interdiff{.gz} new_diff.gz
[04:32] <persia> jdong: combinediff -z interdiff.gz old.diff.gz | gzip --best -c - > new_diff.gz
[04:32] <jdong> persia: oh well that looks ridiculously easy
[04:32] <jdong> persia: why does the "minimal santiy check" have 3 steps then?
[04:32] <persia> jdong: The rest is all about verification, getting upstream, using filterdiff to selectively create a target directory, etc.
[04:33] <jdong> persia: can you check the section that says "Before presenting the interdiff to a sponsor, it is a good idea to make sure it is correct, and sufficient to reconstruct the target package.", which I would expect to be the command you just posted above?
[04:34] <somerville32> You know when you try to do a dist-upgrade but you don't have your desktop package install so you get an error?
[04:34] <somerville32> What package is that in?
[04:34] <persia> jdong: step 1: generate the new_diff.gz.  Step 2: make sure it's the same as the one you made manually.  Step 3: clean up after yourself.
[04:34] <jdong> OH does that cover creating the interdiff too?
[04:34] <jdong> oh it's a verification
[04:34] <persia> jdong: Right.
[04:34] <jdong> ok, that makes sense
[04:34] <jdong> duh if I looked down 5 more lines...
[04:36] <Fujitsu> jdong: /win 12
[04:36] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[04:47]  * somerville32 decides to fix a bug.
[04:50] <TheMuso> somerville32: How about fixing 5 bugs? :p
[04:51] <persia> Simultaneously?
[04:51] <somerville32> :D
[04:52] <somerville32> persia, Thats a feat only you could perform
[04:52] <Hobbsee> no, that's just possible when you pick bugs with 4+ dupes
[04:52] <somerville32> :]
[04:52] <persia> somerville32: The secret is to find a bug with lots of duplicates.  If you want an interesting small project that would let you close 15-20 bugs, take a look at updating zim to 0.23 (and triaging all the bugs)
[04:53] <somerville32> Ok
[04:53] <LaserJock> that's not fair
[04:53]  * somerville32 claims Zim.
[04:53] <persia> LaserJock: What's not fair.  You want a chunk of bugs to triage?
[04:53]  * persia finds another little package dreaming of the slightest whisper of attention
[04:54] <LaserJock> that shouldn't count
[04:54] <Hobbsee> now, now, children.  there's lots of bugs for you to choose from.  no need to fight over them :P
[04:54] <somerville32> But this one has 3 legs!
[04:54]  * jdong poits out that Azureus bug with like 85 dupes
[04:55] <persia> LaserJock: You can have kexy or glom (your choice).  Only about 5 each, but best I can do on short notice.
[04:55] <persia> jdong: Yes, but that was actually hard.
[04:56] <TheMuso> lol
[04:59]  * somerville32 gives up on Firefox.
[05:00] <LucidFox> somerville32> why?
[05:00] <somerville32> Too slow on my 333mhz w/ 192mb of ram
[05:01] <somerville32> Should I try 3.0?
[05:01] <LaserJock> somerville32: do you use any extentions?
[05:01] <somerville32> Nope
[05:01] <somerville32> Except what comes by default
[05:02]  * persia notes that neglected web browsers (Amaya, chimera2, dillo, etc.) are also good sources of lots of easy bugs.
[05:04] <somerville32> Any gtk ones?
[05:05] <Fujitsu> kazehakaze, galeon (shudder)...
[05:05] <Fujitsu> *kazehakase
[05:05] <somerville32> I'm going to upload a new one later tonight
[05:05] <persia> Actually, those two aren't as bad as some of the others.  I think chimera2 is GTK
 is developing one with webkit or w/e it is called
[05:07] <somerville32> Looks pretty nifty
[05:29] <somerville32> XSBC-Orig-Maintainer ?
[05:30] <TheMuso> somerville32: What about it?
[05:31] <somerville32> Is that correct spelling?
[05:31] <jdong> XSBC-Original-Maintainer
[05:32]  * persia notes that the dpkg documentation encourages XBCS, but suggests keeping XSBC to be consistent with typical Ubutnu practice
[05:33] <jdong> what does it stand for?
[05:33] <persia> jdong: Experimental Source Binary Changes
[05:33] <jdong> ah
[05:37] <slangasek> why is Ubuntu practice not in alphabetical order? :)
[05:38] <persia> slangasek: We had a discussion here in February, and decided we liked XSBC- :P  geser gets credit for nominating it
[05:38] <somerville32> LP #BUG right?
[05:38] <persia> somerville32: Should work.  I always do LP: #nnnnnn
[05:39] <StevenK> It's in alphabetical order, just reversed
[05:39] <persia> StevenK: Not quite :)
[05:39] <StevenK> Shush
[05:39] <TheMuso> lol
[05:39] <StevenK> Then it's in PDP7-endianness
[05:39] <nxvl> is there any way i can be on the ubuntu planet or do i need to be a MOTU first?
[05:39] <TheMuso> nxvl: You need to be an ubunt member.
[05:39] <persia> nxvl: You need to be a member first
[05:39] <TheMuso> ubuntu
[05:40] <nxvl> persia: and i can be a member now? or after/at the time i became a MOTU?
[05:40] <persia> nxvl: Membership usually requires 2-3 months of demonstrated activity (and packaging / patching counts).  Just attend a CC meeting when you've reached that point, and bring some fans.
[05:40] <somerville32> persia, Will you be my mentor?
[05:40] <bddebian> No he's already mine :-)
[05:40] <persia> somerville32: You don't need a mentor.  You've been around a good long time, and are doing great work, but still have enough questions you're probably not ready to apply.
[05:41] <nxvl> somerville32: it doesn't work like that, you need to ask norsetto for one
[05:41]  * TheMuso barely had a month of demonstrated activity before he got membership.
[05:41] <somerville32> persia, thanks :]
[05:41]  * persia notes that the historical records shows a very large number of bddebian sponsored persia uploads and zero persia sponsored bddebian uploads.
[05:41] <persia> TheMuso: Nice work on getting fans then :)
[05:41] <bddebian> pfft, just timing ;-)
[05:42] <nxvl> persia: would you be one of my fans :D
[05:42] <TheMuso> persia: Heh thats the thing. I had none.
[05:42] <TheMuso> I just decided to give it a shot.
[05:42] <persia> nxvl: When you've been around a bit more, and I've seen more of your work, likely.
[05:42] <TheMuso> Or, maybbe one or two but they didn't show up.
[05:42] <nxvl> :D
[05:43]  * nxvl *HUGS* persia 
[05:43] <nxvl> mmm
[05:43] <nxvl> i'm becoming a huggie bear...
[05:43] <nxvl> what have do to me you people!!!
[05:43] <nxvl> :P
[05:44] <Hobbsee> it's called ubuntu.
[05:44] <nxvl> btw
[05:45] <nxvl> i have 2 packages (FTBFS) on the universe sponsors queue, can someone take a look please?
[05:45] <LaserJock> anybody feel like helping me with some Bash 101?
[05:46] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: spit it out.
[05:47] <nxvl> bash is easy
[05:47] <nxvl> :D
[05:47] <TheMuso> lol
[05:47]  * nxvl loves bash scripting
[05:48] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: well, I need to a sed line to match a name from this:
[05:48] <LaserJock>           <foaf:name>Sarah Hobbs</foaf:name>
[05:49] <nxvl> LaserJock: what you want is to read that line and print only "Sarah Hobbs"?
[05:49] <LaserJock> yep
[05:49] <nxvl> pice of cake
[05:50] <nxvl> 2 cut's and you are done
[05:50] <somerville32> What would be a good way to state that I've moved libmodule-build-perl from build-depends to build-depends-indep?
[05:50] <Hobbsee> " * Moved libmodule-build-perl from build-deps to build-dep-indep in debian/control"?
[05:50] <LaserJock> nxvl: hmm, I suppose so
[05:50] <StevenK> LaserJock: You can either do it with sed or cut, or awk
[05:51] <LaserJock> what would a sed line look like? I need to get better with it
[05:51] <nxvl> LaserJock:  cut -d\> -f2 | cut -d\< -f
[05:51] <nxvl> LaserJock: echo "<foaf:name>Sarah Hobbs</foaf:name>" | cut -d\> -f2 | cut -d\< -f1
[05:52] <somerville32> Hobbsee, Thats what I put but I was wondering if there was a nifty short-hand way
[05:52] <Hobbsee> somerville32: not really.  *shrug*
[05:53] <persia> sed 's/<foaf:name>\([\sA-Za-z]*\)</foaf:name>/p'
[05:53] <StevenK> % echo "<foaf:name>Sarah Hobbs</foaf:name>" | sed -e 's/<[^>]*>\([^<]*\)<.*/\1/g'
[05:53] <StevenK> Sarah Hobbs
[05:54] <persia> StevenK: Breaks for other kinds of tags, no?
[05:54] <StevenK> I would have thought mine would work for other tags?
[05:54]  * persia forgot the critical /\1/ anyway
[05:54] <StevenK> Besides, mine looks like line noise :-)
[05:54] <persia> StevenK: Points for that.
[05:54] <bddebian> heh
[05:54] <LaserJock> StevenK: yours likes like something from a perl script
[05:55] <StevenK> I'm not sure if that's a complement, or if I should be insulted.
[05:55] <LaserJock> :-)
[05:55] <nxvl> thats what i love of bash scripting, you can make things in so many diferent ways
[05:55] <persia> LaserJock: No, perl would be s/<[^>]*>([^<]*)<.*/$1/g'
[05:55] <persia> [
[05:55] <nxvl> LaserJock: perl regexp are worst that that
[05:56] <StevenK> \1 still works in Perl
[05:56]  * nxvl uses to program on perl
[05:56] <persia> Really?  perl is far too flexible, considering that it's not flexible enough to parse my sed & awk strings on a regular basis
[05:57] <StevenK> In Perl, you'd probably due if (/<[^>]*>([^<]*)<.*/) { # play with $1 }
[05:57] <persia> if?  Not ~= ?
[05:57] <persia> (or =~ maybe: I forget perl)
[05:57] <StevenK> The $_ =~ is implied
[05:59]  * persia tries harder to forget perl
[05:59] <StevenK> persia: I was paid to write Perl at $PREVIOUS_JOB
[05:59] <StevenK> So I'd code Python when I got home until the pain stopped
[05:59] <persia> StevenK: Sure.  For me it's two prior, but still...
[06:00]  * Hobbsee packs up the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™, and the copy of the riot act.
[06:01] <somerville32> zim fails to build because it does "tests" when it builds and looks for a file generated by update-desktop-database
[06:01] <somerville32> Should I remove this test or should I actually add desktop-file-utils as a build-dep-indep and run it before the test?
[06:02] <nxvl> somerville32: i think it will be better to add as a build-dep-indep
[06:02] <lifeless> Hobbsee: slugging friday?
[06:02] <nxvl> tests are always a good idea
[06:02] <Hobbsee> lifeless: no idea.  assume so.
[06:02]  * Hobbsee slugs along
[06:03] <Hobbsee> lifeless: quick, hide!
[06:03] <lifeless> cool
[06:04] <persia> somerville32: When it checks update-desktop-database, does it check in the build directory, or on the build system?  If the latter, it's not an ideal test, and should be mangled or dropped.
[06:06] <somerville32> ok
[06:06] <somerville32> Thats what I was thinking :]
[06:07] <nxvl> did ubuntu members have irc servers?
[06:07] <TheMuso> Not afaik.
[06:10] <somerville32> Any perl puffs here?
[06:10] <somerville32> :(
[06:10] <somerville32> *buffs
[06:10] <somerville32> Error:  File::BaseDir version 0.03 required--this is only version 0.02 at /tmp/buildd/zim-0.23/blib/lib/Zim/GUI/NotebookDialog.pm line 4.
[06:11]  * StevenK tries to figure out how GTK IM modules work
[06:11] <StevenK> somerville32: Zim::GUI::NotebookDialog wants a newer version of libfile-basedir-perl
[06:12]  * persia suggests trying is US evening, when minghua is around to explain
[06:12] <StevenK> persia: To me or somerville32?
[06:13] <somerville32> Version 0.03 isn't in the repo
[06:13] <persia> StevenK: To you: the SCIM maintainer is a good place to get that sort of info
[06:15] <persia> somerville32: It could be...
[06:15] <somerville32> persia, Is it hiding?
[06:15] <somerville32> 0.2 in ubuntu and debian
[06:16] <StevenK> http://search.cpan.org/~pardus/File-BaseDir-0.03/
[06:16]  * somerville32 goes to attempt it.
[06:25] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[06:27] <somerville32> When I touch a package, should I upgrade the standards version/compat value?
[06:28] <persia> somerville32: If you're intending to care for it for a while, and if you check the policy changes concerned, and make sure you comply with the new standards, yes.
[06:28] <persia> If it's just a hit & run bugfix, no.
[06:29] <somerville32> persia, file-basedir is asking for a geographical location at build
[06:30] <somerville32> And it just loops over and over and over
[06:30] <persia> somerville32: Patch it not to do that.
[06:39] <StevenK> yes | sed 's/yes/Nowhere/' | build
[06:44] <somerville32> StevenK, hmm?
[06:44] <StevenK> Just a suggestion
[06:44] <somerville32> I'm not sure I understand it.
[06:44] <persia> StevenK: Isn't that a DOS on the buildds?
[06:45] <StevenK> Probably
[06:45] <somerville32> And there is nothing to patch
[06:45] <StevenK> somerville32: perl Makefile.PL will probably read from stdin
[06:45] <StevenK> echo '' | perl Makefile.PL
[06:45] <persia> somerville32: There's always something to patch: that's the nature of having source.
[06:47] <somerville32> StevenK, I imagine that perlmodule.mk is what is supplying the config script with the info?
[06:48] <StevenK> Oh. Building perl modules with CDBS
[06:48]  * StevenK stops listening. La la la la la la la
[06:49] <somerville32> lol
[06:50] <persia> somerville32: Just grep for the string asking for location, and find out why it's asking, and feed it a sensible default.
[06:51] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: ping
[06:51] <somerville32> persia, It isn't in the source package.
[06:52]  * persia thinks somerville32 is having a GOOD day
[06:52] <somerville32> 3am
[06:52] <persia> somerville32: As StevenK says, perl + CDBS is special in many disasterously convenient ways.  You'll need to dig :(
[06:53]  * StevenK still isn't listening. La la la la la la la la
[06:53] <somerville32> I have a sad feeling the issue isn't the package but CDBS and Perl
[06:54] <persia> somerville32: You're very likely correct.  When it works, it's perfect.  When it breaks, and it's perl, it's just extra odd.
[06:55] <TheMuso> Yay. The first comment spam on my blog. :p
[06:56] <highvoltage> TheMuso: heh, I hope you install a spam filter :)
[06:56] <TheMuso> highvoltage: Atm, I approve all comments first.
[06:57] <TheMuso> That will change if the comments queue gets too long.
[06:57] <highvoltage> TheMuso: yes, that's fine for now, but I've had almost 100,000 spam messages on my blog so far, which is commonly known spam. If I had to manually mark them all as spam, it would be quite painful ;)
[06:57]  * StevenK uses a POST script to post 10,000 comments
[06:57]  * persia wonders how ld and strip weren't in main
[06:58] <TheMuso> highvoltage: Yeah I know it will likely get to that. I'll start digging for a drupal comment spam module. I just wanted to get things going at the time.
[06:59] <somerville32> Why should Perl care what continent you live on anyhow?!
[07:01] <minghua> persia: How is that possible?
[07:02] <minghua> persia: Aren't they both in binutils?
[07:02] <persia> Hmm..  They seem also to be in elfutils.  Maybe it's a transition.
[07:02] <minghua> somerville32: For deciding CPAN mirror, perhaps.
[07:03] <slangasek> persia: er? ld and strip are in main
[07:03]  * persia goes to read docs again, being confused
[07:03] <minghua> elfutils' ld and strip should be named eu-ld and eu-strip.
[07:03] <slangasek> are you reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportElfUtils already? :)
[07:03] <somerville32> StevenK, If you were to run the Makefile.PL script, what env var would you set to set the mirror/what continent you're living on?
[07:04] <persia> slangasek: Yes.
[07:05] <slangasek> yeah, elfutils has its own version of those utilities, which shouldn't be transitioned to
[07:06] <persia> Ah.  Right.  Very confusing, but I suppose there is a useful reason.
[07:06] <StevenK> somerville32: I'd have to read the script
[07:06] <slangasek> persia: a useful reason for them to exist?
[07:06] <somerville32> StevenK, It is using the built in thing
[07:06] <somerville32> StevenK, Module::Build
[07:07] <slangasek> persia: they exist because someone said "eh, we already had all the code to parse elf, that was the hard part"
[07:07] <persia> slangasek: Rather, a useful reason to put them in main (other than a rdepends).
[07:07] <persia> heh
[07:07] <slangasek> persia: no, the rdepends is the only useful reason I see :)
[07:07] <persia> Hmm..  Is bug-buddy really that useful?
[07:08] <minghua> slangasek: The "Upstream" link on elfutils's MIR wiki page is broken for me.
[07:08] <slangasek> persia: it's a preexisting main component of the gnome desktop <shrug>
[07:08] <slangasek> minghua: yeah, broken for me as well, it's the only upstream URL I had in debian/copyright
[07:09] <Amaranth> I have no clue why we have bug-buddy
[07:10] <Amaranth> We use apport, bug-buddy never does anything
[07:10] <Amaranth> I guess because it'd break ABI to not have it
[07:10] <persia> Also, bug-buddy doesn't seem to be patched to not go straight upstream: apport is more useful to us.
[07:11] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: You rang?
[07:11] <Amaranth> persia: It doesn't have to be patched, it never gets used
[07:11] <slangasek> well, for all I care elfutils can be promoted for alpha1 and then bug-buddy and elfutils can both be demoted for alpha2 :)
[07:11] <persia> Amaranth: Right, but if it was patched, I'd see a point.  When it's not, it's clearly no longer being maintained especially for Ubuntu.
[07:11] <Amaranth> Have to talk to seb128, this makes no sense
[07:12] <StevenK> Or bug-buggy gets demoted?
[07:12] <Amaranth> Unless we want to stop using apport for things in gnome bugzilla
[07:12] <persia> slangasek: Yes, but someone would have to write up two demotion requests :)
[07:12] <Amaranth> Since GNOME has infrastructure like apport now (just needs an Ubuntu server)
[07:12] <slangasek> persia: demotions have to be requested?  I thought we can just unseed stuff with abandon ):
[07:12] <slangasek> :)
[07:12] <persia> slangasek: Well, you can.  For lowly people like me, requests are involved.
[07:13] <Amaranth> I thought it fell out automatically if nothing depended on it
[07:13] <persia> Amaranth: Yes, but seeds are special.
[07:13] <Amaranth> seeds are just ubuntu-meta?
[07:13] <persia> Amaranth: mostly.  There are other seeds too.
[07:13] <persia> !seeds
[07:13] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seeds - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[07:13] <Amaranth> Ah, I right
[07:13] <slangasek> hmm, bug-buddy is seeded, ok
[07:13] <Amaranth> err
[07:14] <slangasek> then I can't remove it either ;)
[07:14] <persia> Hm.  There is a SeedManagement page on the wiki.
[07:14] <Amaranth> For, say, server things that are useful but not installed
[07:14] <persia> slangasek: Aren't you extra-cool yet?
[07:14] <slangasek> nah
[07:14] <slangasek> well, yes, but not in the way you mean
[07:14] <persia> someone should poke someone in that other channel and advise them to trim the seed before it gets too close to Thursday.
[07:15] <slangasek> "trim"?
[07:15]  * TheMuso wonders when disks will start being built.
[07:15] <persia> slangasek: Remove excess bits from
[07:15] <slangasek> if you mean bug-buddy, I've been poking that channel since I finished the MIR ;)
[07:15] <persia> e.g. bug-buddy
[07:15]  * persia subsides
[07:17] <minghua> slangasek: Perhaps ftp://sourceware.org/pub/systemtap/elfutils/
[07:18] <asisak> Hey MOTUs!
[07:18] <TheMuso> Hey asisak.
[07:19] <slangasek> minghua: looks better, thanks
[07:20] <asisak> Heya TheMuso
[07:20] <minghua> Hmm, elfutils author says "IT IS NOT FOR GENERAL USE" in the first line of its README.  But we released it in etch.
[07:21] <minghua> ... and feisty and up.
[07:23] <LaserJock> don't all authors say that?
[07:23] <persia> "NOT FOR GENERAL USE" doesn't seem an issue for universe, but for main?
[07:23] <jml> LaserJock: only the ones with users.
[07:24] <persia> LaserJock: There's a difference between no warrantee and a big warning
[07:25] <slangasek> "this software is not licensed for use in generals"
[07:26]  * persia wonders if it can be on the same CD as strategus
[07:28] <somerville32> StevenK, Start listening again :P
[07:30] <StevenK> somerville32: Why? :-)
[07:31] <somerville32> StevenK, Do you know anything about Module:Build?
[07:31] <StevenK> somerville32: Next to nothing.
[07:32] <StevenK> I'm more familar with ExtUtils::MakeMaker
[07:32] <somerville32> CPAN is migrating to Module::Build
[07:32] <somerville32> (from what I gather)
[07:34] <somerville32> Do you know of any packages that make use of Module::Build?
[07:34]  * somerville32 has an idea
[07:36]  * somerville32 is going to bed and will continue to tackle this in the morning
[07:37] <persia> TheMuso: You do know that 5 or 6 audio apps just plain don't work for 64-bit, no?
[07:56] <Ubulette> hi
[07:56] <LaserJock> man, I am stuck with huge source packages to upload :(
[07:57]  * Fujitsu gives LaserJock l-r-m
[07:57] <Ubulette> persia, i've reposted prism yesterday. feel free to give it a try.
[07:57] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: please no
[07:57] <Fujitsu> And sauerbraten.
[07:57] <persia> Ubulette: Excellent.  I can't review now, but I shall later.
[07:57] <Fujitsu> And perhaps wesnoth as well.
[07:58] <LaserJock> my first hardy upload was >80MB and my second is >30MB
[07:58]  * persia notes that someone else reviewing prism would be nice
[07:58] <Ubulette> yep, thx
[07:58] <persia> LaserJock: You could do the vegastrike & vegastrike-data merges :)
[07:59] <LaserJock> no thanks
[07:59]  * Ubulette is heading to work
[07:59] <Ubulette> enjoy the day everyone
[08:03] <Fujitsu> Hi dholbach.
[08:03] <dholbach> good morning
[08:03] <dholbach> hey Fujitsu
[08:03] <dholbach> how are you doing?
[08:03] <Fujitsu> Not bad. Yourself?
[08:04] <dholbach> I'm OK, slowly waking pu and getting up to speed
[08:08] <LaserJock> hi dholbach
[08:09] <dholbach> hey LaserJock
[08:10] <LaserJock> dholbach: you gonna be around at 15:00UTC?
[08:10] <dholbach> LaserJock: yes
[08:11] <LaserJock> dholbach: you gonna pop in to #ubuntu-classroom for PPA 101
[08:11] <LaserJock> ?
[08:11] <dholbach> LaserJock: sure :)
[08:15] <LaserJock> I guess I better go get some sleep beforehand
[08:15] <dholbach> sleep tight then :)
[08:18] <TheMuso> persia: I wasn't awaer of that, but in general, waht I said is true.
[08:21] <TheMuso> persia: Has anybody tried to port them?
[08:25] <persia> TheMuso: Yes, the rest of what you said is very true (which is part of why I use 64-bit :) ).  I've looked at porting them, as has slangasek, but it's design issues, not code issues.
[08:25] <TheMuso> persia: Right. What apps?
[08:27] <slangasek> wait, what have I tried to port?
[08:27] <persia> slangasek: csound for one
[08:28] <slangasek> oh, eew, csound
[08:28] <slangasek> I don't think I tried to port it, I just got elbow-deep into its guts and then ran away screaming
[08:28] <slangasek> isn't csound the one that's broken on 64-bit because it includes its own, crappy l10n lib? :)
[08:28] <persia> TheMuso: csound and cecilia are the ones that come to mind right now.  There was another one I've forgotten that look forever to clean out.
[08:28] <persia> slangasek: Yes.
[08:28] <TheMuso> Right.
[08:29] <slangasek> yeah, I was just short of recommending it be removed from the debian archive altogether instead of just marking it as "not for 64-bit" :)
[08:30] <\sh> moins
[08:31] <TheMuso> persia: Well it sounds like the apps that don't work on 64-bit are in the minority, and don't sound like apps that a lot of people would want to use.
[08:39] <persia> TheMuso: Definitely the minority, but I used to use csound before upstream broke 64-bit compatibility, and I'd be happy to use it again.
[08:39] <TheMuso> Fair enough.
[08:40] <persia> Ah.  supercollider, where upstream decided that a 64-bit data structure should be used to store a 32-bit flag and a 32-bit pointer.  That's the one that was really frustrating to track down (and for which we've had at least two porting patches)
[08:43] <TheMuso> Fun.
[08:43] <TheMuso> At least that was fixable.
[08:45] <persia> Actually, no.  It's not fixable.  Changing the data structure causes the app to run too slowly to maintain an acceptably low number of xruns.
[08:46] <persia> (although Toadstool's patch at least allows it to compile)
[08:46] <slangasek> just change it to a 32-bit flag, and a 32-bit offset into a lookup table of pointers
[08:46] <slangasek> ;-)
[08:46] <persia> slangasek: Go for it :)
[08:47] <slangasek> don't care about the app :)
[08:47] <persia> I stopped caring after spending two releases trying to get the old binaries removed.
[09:13] <minghua> Hi mok0.  I added a few comments/questions on REVU about Torque.
[09:13] <mok0> Yes, I noticed! Thanks!
[09:14] <mok0> minghua: I agree with you on your various points. I can't remember what the openssh dependency is for; I think the build checks for it
[09:15] <minghua> mok0: That's what I think as well.  It would be nice if we can patch it not to do that though.
[09:16] <mok0> minghua: why is that?
[09:16] <mok0> minghua: you need ssh for the running system
[09:17] <minghua> mok0: Because I don't see a reason to really use ssh.  It's likely just checking its existence.
[09:17] <mok0> minghua: true
[09:17] <minghua> mok0: The dependency is good.  I'm talking about build-dependency.
[09:17] <mok0> minghua: I understand
[09:18] <mok0> minghua: Well, I'l take a look!
[09:18] <minghua> mok0: Keep up the good work. :-)
[09:19] <mok0> minghua: Will do ;-)
[09:21] <mok0> Gotta run, got some teaching to do... for the rest of the day :-(
[09:21] <nand> hiya! I was wondering, what is the deadline for submitting new packages / new packages version on REVU? feature freeze?
[09:21]  * Fujitsu forgets if FF is the latest submission date, or the latest approval date.
[09:21] <Fujitsu> That was a matter of much contention last release.
[09:22] <Amaranth> I'd hope it'd be approval
[09:22] <persia> Feature Freeze is the latest approval date: best to get things in a couple weeks earlier (although exceptions can be requested).  For extra points, get things in by DIF, as after this, there is more resistance to any possibly required library adjustments, etc.
[09:23] <nand> DIF?
[09:23] <Amaranth> debian import freeze
[09:23] <Amaranth> which is soon, i think
[09:23] <nand> thx :)
[09:23] <persia> REVU days are planned through Feature Freeze, but the last days are likely only to grab packages that are really requried to meet the feature goals for hardy.
[09:23] <persia> Amaranth: 14th December.
[09:23] <Amaranth> Well there you go
[09:23] <Fujitsu> Hm, soon :(
[09:23] <nand> persia: ok thanks for the infos.
[09:24] <persia> nand: No problem.  I don't suppose you'd like to update the wiki with that information :)
[09:24] <persia> Fujitsu: Only 200 merges left, so that's only ~14 a day :)
[09:25] <Fujitsu> persia: Heh.
[09:25]  * Fujitsu is doing his last couple now, while waiting for some security updates to build.
[09:25] <nand> persia: It was on the wiki? oh sorry.
[09:25]  * TheMuso has done his, and is doing Martin's, Daniel's, and possibly one or two of Matthias'.
[09:26] <TheMuso> To help clear the queue.
[09:26] <persia> nand: I don't think what I said existed anywhere outside my head before I said it, but I think it should be on the wiki, so we don't have another argument about it near Feature Freeze.
[09:26]  * persia cheers TheMuso 
[09:26] <\sh> Fujitsu, bah wireshark is evil
[09:26] <minghua> Why are merges connected to the DIF date?
[09:26] <nand> persia: Ok i'll add it.
[09:26]  * slangasek pets the wireshark
[09:26] <Fujitsu> \sh: Why?
[09:26]  * Fujitsu drops some CVEs on slangasek.
[09:26] <persia> nand: Thanks.
[09:27] <slangasek> Fujitsu: pff, that's why you run tshark for the capture and run the gui as a minimum-priv user :)
[09:27] <Fujitsu> slangasek: Ideally, yes.
[09:27] <Amaranth> I don't have any merges to do :P
[09:27] <persia> minghua: The idea is to separate development of each release into three phases.
[09:27] <Amaranth> Or time to do them, so it all works out
[09:27] <persia> In the first phase, we try to grab all the random crack we can, and push it in.
[09:27] <\sh> Fujitsu, 0.99.7prebla...fixes a lot more new CVEs...
[09:27] <persia> That ends with DIF.
[09:27] <geser> minghua: afaik there is no connection, merges should be possible till UVF==FF or later if it's only a new revision
[09:27] <Fujitsu> And this is a particularly nasty release, as it's LTS.
[09:27] <persia> In the second phase, we try to organise and coordinate everything, so it basically works.
[09:28] <Fujitsu> \sh: Damnit. Can't they make their software secure?
[09:28] <\sh> Fujitsu, /me needs to backport some more CVEs to wireshark downto edgy
[09:28] <persia> That ends with Feature Freeze.
[09:28] <Fujitsu> \sh: Thanks for looking at that.
[09:28] <persia> In the third phase, we close all the remaining bugs.
[09:28] <Amaranth> hahaha
[09:28] <TheMuso> s/all the reamining/as many bugs as we can/
[09:28] <persia> That ends with Release Freeze.
[09:28] <TheMuso> remaining*
[09:28] <persia> TheMuso: All of them :P
[09:28] <Amaranth> Then we all go drink a lot
[09:29] <TheMuso> persia: Always the optimist.
[09:29] <\sh> Fujitsu, bug #164501 ... the last sync fixed it for hardy...and some are falling in our responsibility downto edgy
[09:29] <Fujitsu> Amaranth: No, we do that when people criticise LP.
[09:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164501 in wireshark "more security issues with wireshark from 0.99.6 down to ..." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164501
[09:29] <persia> Right.  Then 1 week drinking, 1 week conference, and do it all again :)
[09:29] <geser> Amaranth: Ubuntu Drinking Summit?
[09:29] <Fujitsu> \sh: Sigh.
[09:29] <Amaranth> geser: Exactly.
[09:29] <Fujitsu> geser: Heh.
[09:29] <minghua> persia: Right.  I would hope our merging work would be more like "making it basically work" rather than like "grab random crack", though. ;-)
[09:29] <persia> geser: Week before
[09:29] <slangasek> you can always close bugs, you just can't always fix them
[09:29] <Fujitsu> slangasek: That's a good point.
[09:29] <Amaranth> slangasek: Hey, that's a good point.
[09:29]  * Amaranth closes all his bugs
[09:29] <TheMuso> slangasek: Good point.
[09:30] <persia> minghua: First pass merging is "grab random crack", as we just merge without thinking too much.  For the second phase, most people keep half an eye on Debian, and grab stuff, but they should all be "updated merges" rather than "outstanding merges".
[09:30] <\sh> let's close all the bug but #1 ,-)
[09:30]  * Fujitsu waits evilly for mass-bug-editing-phase-1.
[09:30]  * persia has a script that does that
[09:30]  * Fujitsu notes there is no undo feature yet.
[09:30] <minghua> \sh: Let's close #1 as "Won't Fix" as well, then.
[09:30] <persia> (this is why my script is not available)
[09:30]  * Fujitsu has an email client that does that, though ISP mail servers get cranky.
[09:31] <\sh> minghua, nah..it's the only bug we can resolv in the future ,-)
[09:31] <Amaranth> Fujitsu: Time for a shot?
[09:31] <persia> Fujitsu: It's only about 15 lines each that need be changed from the various BTS management scripts (as those are email based) :)
[09:31] <Fujitsu> Amaranth: I think so.
[09:31] <Fujitsu> persia: That's true.
[09:32] <minghua> Hmm, \sh, what's wrong with your left eye? :-)
[09:33]  * Fujitsu pokes \sh in the eye, and solves the dilemma.
[09:34] <geser> Fujitsu: the right one?
[09:34] <Fujitsu> geser: No, the left.
[09:36] <Fujitsu> keescook: Is ubuntu-cve still moving to LP RSN, or should I send a bundle your way?
[09:36] <Fujitsu> (and does it inherit LP RSN?)
[09:37] <Fujitsu> \sh: 10 consecutive CVEs. Nice.
[09:37] <slangasek> proactive security auditing
[09:37] <slangasek> :)
[09:37] <Fujitsu> Oops, 11.
[09:37] <Fujitsu> slangasek: But they'll come out with another 20 in a week.
[09:38] <Fujitsu> And then the week after that.
[09:38]  * Fujitsu wonders if that wins `most CVEs fixed in one release of an open source product'
[09:39] <Fujitsu> \sh: Is Hardy safe from those, with pre1?
[09:40] <slangasek> Fujitsu: you're talking about wireshark, right?  parsing stuff from the wire is hard, the CVE numbers are roughly proportional to the usefulness of the tool :)
[09:40] <Fujitsu> slangasek: I guess. But then there's wordpress...
[09:41] <slangasek> ... whose CVE numbers are /not/ roughly proportional to the usefulness of the tool :-P
[09:44] <geser> Fujitsu: have you already seen bug #172265?
[09:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172265 in feynmf "[feynmf] Insecure temporary file creation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172265
[09:46] <Fujitsu> geser: I've not. Looking.
[09:47] <Fujitsu> geser: If you see bugs like that, can you please subscribe motu-swat?
[09:48] <\sh> Fujitsu, yepp
[09:48] <geser> Fujitsu: sure
[09:48] <Fujitsu> \sh: Was that to Hardy being OK?
[09:48] <\sh> Fujitsu, right :)
[09:48] <\sh> Fujitsu, and all CVEs which are affecting edgy to gutsy will be fixed during the weekend I hope
[09:49] <Fujitsu> \sh: You rock.
[09:49] <geser> Fujitsu: poking \sh's left eye worked :)
[09:49] <\sh> Fujitsu, no...I'm mad ;)
[09:49] <Fujitsu> geser: Heheh.
[09:49] <\sh> Fujitsu, my wife's killing me...
[09:50] <minghua> So feynmf is indeed the package I was thinking about.
[09:50] <Fujitsu> I see no CVEs open for it in ubuntu-cve, but I think that's fairly out of date at the moment.
[09:50]  * Fujitsu checks.
[09:51] <Fujitsu> Oh, it's assigned to texlive...
[09:51] <\sh> so..now for something completly different..installing gutsy on a dl360 with drupal as CMS, just because our java people are not able to get the "I need to compile lenya from scratch, just because we have to change the domain name" package working :(
[09:52] <minghua> Fujitsu: We seem to have feynmf split from the big texlive blob.
[09:52] <Fujitsu> minghua: So it's not a duplicate copy of it?
[09:52]  * Fujitsu checks Debian.
[09:53] <minghua> texlive-full depends on feynmf though.
[09:53] <Fujitsu> OK, that's good.
[09:53] <Fujitsu> So it's separate.
[09:53] <minghua> Fujitsu: I believe it's not.
[09:54] <Fujitsu> minghua: Not separate? Or not a duplicate copy?
[09:54] <minghua> Norbert paid special attention not to include already packaged packages in texlive-*.
[09:54] <Fujitsu> Aha, very good.
[09:54] <minghua> Fujitsu: Not duplicate.
[09:55] <Fujitsu> minghua: That's for checking that out.
[09:55] <minghua> No problem.
[09:55] <Fujitsu> s/That's/Thanks/
[09:55] <Fujitsu> Urgh.
[09:56]  * minghua read that as Thanks...
[09:56] <Fujitsu> So did I.
[09:56] <Fujitsu> I typed it as that too, but apparently not.
[09:56] <\sh> Fujitsu, you want to kill me...reading your comment to cacti ;)
[09:57] <Fujitsu> \sh: Why would I want to kill you?
[09:58] <\sh> Fujitsu, -EMOREWORK
[09:58] <Fujitsu> \sh: Oh, I see.
[09:58] <\sh> anyways....will have a look on it
[09:59] <Fujitsu> \sh: Thanks.
[10:00] <\sh> Fujitsu, found the fix in RHs bugzilla...refering to upstreams svn
[10:01] <\sh> Fujitsu, btw...would you like to help me to document some of this work for security fixes, as discussed during the last motu meeting?
[10:01] <Fujitsu> \sh: Link bugs like that, if you can find them.
[10:01] <Fujitsu> \sh: Of course!
[10:02] <\sh> Fujitsu, so we can try to find more people doing work on this topic?
[10:02] <Fujitsu> That would be most desirable.
[10:02] <\sh> Fujitsu, cool :)
[10:14] <Fujitsu> geser: That feynmf bug was actually fixed in Debian years ago.
[10:14] <\sh> Fujitsu, can you access cacti.net?
[10:15] <\sh> Fujitsu, or is it down, could be that's only our connection...
[10:15] <Fujitsu> \sh: I can't see it either. Somebody probably SQL-injected it away, with their code quality...
[10:17] <\sh> Fujitsu, thx...just wanted to be sure it's not me  ;)
[10:19]  * Fujitsu spins the CVE wheel... which lucky package will get its CVEs fixed next?
[10:20] <\sh> Fujitsu, CVE-2007-6100 ?
[10:20]  * Fujitsu pokes ubotu.
[10:20] <Fujitsu> Hm, I thought it did respond to that.
[10:20] <Fujitsu> Maybe not.
[10:20] <\sh> Cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability in libraries/auth/cookie.auth.lib.php in phpMyAdmin before 2.11.2.2, when logins are authenticated with the cookie auth_type, allows remote attackers to inject arbitrary web script or HTML via the convcharset parameter to index.php, a different vulnerability than CVE-2005-0992.
[10:20] <ubotu> Cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability in index.php in phpMyAdmin before 2.6.2-rc1 allows remote attackers to inject arbitrary web script or HTML via the convcharset parameter. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2005-0992)
[10:21]  * \sh is now known as ubotu
[10:21] <Fujitsu> Ah, not in the DB yet.
[10:21] <Fujitsu> \sh: I was just grepping through ubuntu-cve for phpmyadmin CVEs, as it turns out.
[10:22] <\sh> Fujitsu, CVE-2007-6110 is also a nice candidate
[10:22] <\sh> Fujitsu, ubotu should search NVD as well
[10:23] <Fujitsu> \sh: Ideally. I might file a bug.
[10:24] <jussi01> hmmm, how do i see permissions on a file from the command line?
[10:25] <\sh> jussi01, ls -la <filename> ?
[10:25] <jussi01> \sh: thanks... had a brain block ;)
[10:32] <\sh> I wonder if http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2007-6122 and http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2007-6123 are also true for hybserv and dancer-services
[10:34] <\sh> Fujitsu, is ubuntu-cve back online ?
[10:37] <Fujitsu> \sh: The bzr branch, but not the web UI, as far as I know.
[11:19] <TheMuso> What upgrade paths do we support?
[11:19] <StevenK> TheMuso: Dapper -> Hardy && Gutsy -> Hardy
[11:19] <TheMuso> THought so, just wanted to check, thanks.
[11:27] <frenchy> Can anyone please explain how dh_installman knows where to find the man files I want to install?  My build is omitting the man page and I don't understand why.
[11:30] <StevenK> frenchy: You either specify it when you run dh_installman or you put the manual page name in debian/manpages
[11:32] <frenchy> I use CDBS and it's definately running `dh_installman -pme-tv`.  I read the man page for dh_installman and it said "... debian/package.manpages can list other man pages to be installed".
[11:32] <frenchy> StevenK: So in my case, is my man page an "other" man page?
[11:33] <frenchy> StevenK: So I've simply misinterpreted the use of the word "other" to mean additional.
[11:33] <StevenK> frenchy: Right.
[11:34] <frenchy> StevenK: Thank you.
[11:37] <frenchy> Here's another good one, "help" or "doc"?  I have GNOME help and a man page(s) ... do the man pages go in "doc" and the GNOME help in "help" ... or should I combine them into "help"?
[11:39] <frenchy> StevenK: That fixed the original man page issue.  It now installs.  Thank you again.
[11:39] <StevenK> frenchy: No problem
[11:44] <frenchy> siretart: I've dl'ed the source for gxine.  And it was this package that I thought that I might have to put man pages in doc?  Do you know if this is correct?  Is there a standard?
[11:50] <Fujitsu> Greetings, oh great green alien.
[11:50] <Hobbsee> hiya Fujitsu!
[11:55] <frenchy> Does silence mean that "it doesn't matter"?
[11:59] <frenchy> Have I used up all my MOTU credits, already?  Damn :)
[11:59] <soren> frenchy: I don't understand your question
[12:00] <Fujitsu> \sh: Should I file a bug requesting component-specific security contacts?
[12:00] <Fujitsu> Hm, I guess that might not work, actually. Damn.
[12:01] <Fujitsu> As not everything that's embargoed will be in main...
[12:01] <frenchy> soren: Hi,  I knew if I was annoying enough someone would answer, thanks.  Man pages --> doc,  GNOME help --> help ... it that correct, or am I supposed to combine them?
[12:01] <soren> I still don't understand the question.
[12:01] <soren> What does "man pages --> doc" mean?
[12:01] <proppy> !info scribes
[12:01] <ubotu> scribes: simple, slim and sleek, yet powerful text editor for GNOME. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3.2.9-1 (gutsy), package size 714 kB, installed size 3816 kB
[12:02] <proppy> nice
[12:03] <frenchy> soren: Oh sorry for not being clear.  Do my man pages go in a doc directory?  Do my GNOME help pages go in a help directory?  If I have both do I combine them because it kind of seems like overkill to have 2 documentation directories?
[12:04] <nenolod> hmm
[12:04] <soren> frenchy: Whatever you're packaging should install stuff in the right place?
[12:04] <nenolod> has the dust cleared in hardy yet? or is it not sane enough to use in production yet? :P
[12:04] <Hobbsee> nenolod: it's not sane enough to use in production until release.
[12:05] <nenolod> Hobbsee, well, by "production" i mean on my local machine. not on any mission critical hardware ;)
[12:05] <Fujitsu> If you have to ask that...
[12:05] <frenchy> soren: Sorry, I'm obviously still not being clear.  What is the "right place"?
[12:05] <nenolod> Fujitsu, well, i'm just asking if anything is majorly broken
[12:05] <nenolod> ;p
[12:05] <soren> frenchy: What are you trying to do?
[12:06] <soren> nenolod: Right now it works fairly well, but we might break it 27 times before release. If your setup break, you get to keep both pieces.
[12:06] <nenolod> soren, well i know that ;)
[12:07] <frenchy> soren: Package my application ... ohhh ... yeah this isn't a packaging question.  This is an upstream question.  But I guess that you guys will know what is expected.
[12:08] <frenchy> soren: I'm a developer/packager.
[12:08] <soren> frenchy: Yes, but if you were packaging stuff, the upstream ought to be doing this correctly. I didn't know you were upstream.
[12:08] <soren> frenchy: man pages belong in /usr/share/man. Gnome help files belong elsewhere.
[12:09] <frenchy> soren: lol ... You don't know how many times I've had to mention that.  Aparently, I'm weird for being a developer and really liking Ubuntu..
[12:09] <nenolod> frenchy, why? ubuntu lets you get stuff done more efficiently
[12:10] <nenolod> frenchy, those same jackasses probably believe things like Gentoo is the only OS for devs
[12:10] <Hobbsee> sigh.  as i was saying....
[12:10] <frenchy> Oh ... I agree Ubuntu is _awesome_.  But it just appears that it's not that common.
[12:10] <Hobbsee> nenolod: it's good when it doesn't crash.  or otherwise break
[12:11] <nenolod> Hobbsee, right. i'll just wait for beta1 and continue using hardy in chroot
[12:11] <nenolod> ;)
[12:11] <frenchy> common = developers that are packagers.
[12:11] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: What is it doing this time?
[12:11] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: X froze. tried to use the sysrq combo, but got nothing.
[12:11] <Hobbsee> not sure if i called it right
[12:11] <nenolod> frenchy, well i develop a well known XMMS fork, and help to maintain it's packaging in both Debian and Ubuntu where I can :P
[12:12] <frenchy> soren: I'm asking in the upstream ... where do they go ... I'm way off-topic here but didn't realise that until I was halfway in.
[12:12] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Ah.
[12:12] <DktrKranz> Hobbsee, mind give-back gambas on Hardy?
[12:12] <nenolod> so perhaps it's not as uncommon as some people would like to believe -- for example, sabdfl or somebody was talking about streamlining processes for upstreams to maintain packages directly in ubuntu
[12:13] <frenchy> nenolod: Well it's good to know there are other weirdos out there too.  Nice to meet you.
[12:13] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Alt+SysRq+{S,U,R}
[12:14] <DktrKranz> erm... gambas2, not gambas
[12:14] <Hobbsee> ahhh.  i thought it was alt+shift+ctrl+sysrq + k or something.
[12:14] <StevenK> That reads like an Emacs "shortcut"
[12:14] <Fujitsu> I have to do some special stuff due to this laptop keyboard, I believe.
[12:14] <nenolod> emacs has shortcuts?
[12:14] <Hobbsee> StevenK: exactly
[12:15] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Why would you sync, then unmount, then set the keyboard to raw?
[12:15] <StevenK> Fujitsu: I thought R was Reboot?
[12:15] <Fujitsu> StevenK: B is reboot.
[12:15] <StevenK> nenolod: Sure, they're like that
[12:15] <Fujitsu> REISUB is the magic safe reboot sequence.
[12:15] <StevenK> Ah
[12:15] <Fujitsu> O is off.
[12:15] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: logically, of course
[12:15]  * Hobbsee just uses the good old "press and hold the power button"
[12:15] <frenchy> So as upstream ... I'm god ... muhahahaha.  The poor package maintainer will have to deal with the rubbish that I have created.  Oh wait a sec ... that's me!
[12:15] <nenolod> Hobbsee, that's the approach i take too :D
[12:16] <Fujitsu> Raw, Kill, kIll harder, Sync disks, Unmount, reBoot.
[12:16] <nenolod> followed by yelling at my computer things like "X.org is !&%(*%@&@(*#@@ garbage"
[12:16] <nenolod> ;)
[12:16] <Hobbsee> hahahahaha
[12:16] <nenolod> actually, it's probably the proprietary nvidia drivers which suck
[12:18]  * Fujitsu dies
[12:18] <Fujitsu> phpmyadmin wants yada to build.
[12:18] <Fujitsu> DIE DIE DIE
[12:18] <StevenK> Fujitsu: How do you get Kill == E?
[12:18] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Hm, I thought it was.
[12:19]  * StevenK chuckles insanely about dexter
[12:19] <slytherin> Can anyone please tell me what is debian-rules-ignores-make-clean-error ?
[12:19] <StevenK> You run -$(MAKE) clean
[12:19] <frenchy> slytherin: http://lintian.debian.org/reports/Tdebian-rules-ignores-make-clean-error.html
[12:20] <slytherin> StevenK: No, there is only -$(MAKE) -i distclean
[12:20] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: stab it.  stab it now.
[12:20] <frenchy> slytherin: Google it .. it's the first result.
[12:20] <slytherin> frenchy: thanks
[12:21] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I have to fix 6 or so CVEs in it first.
[12:21] <frenchy> slytherin: Also when you run lintian add the -i option.
[12:21] <Fujitsu> I'm not sure that keescook would like me changing the build system :P
[12:21] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: use that as a reason to kill the package from ubuntu.  no more need to fix the cve's.
[12:21] <Fujitsu> Haha.
[12:22] <StevenK> "Depends on yada. yada is TEH SUCK." *boot*
[12:22] <Fujitsu> Is there an override method for the DebianMaintainerField check in dpkg-buildpackage yet?
[12:24] <Fujitsu> Oh, diiiiiiiiie yada diiiiiiiiie. WHY IS THIS debian/rules MUTATING BEFORE MY EYES?
[12:25] <StevenK> Because that's what yada *does*
[12:25] <Fujitsu> It's adding bits and I can't see where they're coming from.
[12:25] <StevenK> Sounds right.
[12:26] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: that's yada for you.
[12:26] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: see the control.in, iirc.
[12:26] <StevenK> No, debian/packages
[12:27] <Fujitsu> But, but, but:
[12:27] <Fujitsu> -       umask 022; yada generate copyright \
[12:27] <Fujitsu> +       umask 022; yada generate copyright phpmyadmin \
[12:27] <Hobbsee> StevenK: ah, that's it.  knew it was something nonstandard.
[12:27] <Hobbsee> didn't think control.in was right
[12:27] <StevenK> Of *course*. It's yada.
[12:27]  * StevenK tries to crowbar his yada knowledge off his brain
[12:28] <Hobbsee> does bitching at yada qualify for a drink, in the great MOTU drinking game?
[12:28] <Fujitsu> Now, do I build the source package in a feisty chroot, or do I mangle the diff manually... I think the latter.
[12:28] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Three
[12:28] <Hobbsee> excellent!@
[12:29] <StevenK> You need to finish every drop of liquor in the house if a package builds and didn't require any bitching.
[12:31] <Fujitsu> StevenK: It built!
[12:31]  * Hobbsee just refuses to touch them
[12:33] <StevenK> Hrm. Irony.
[12:33] <StevenK> % quodlibet --print-playing
[12:33] <StevenK> Megadeth - Risk - 2/12 - Prince Of Darkness
[12:33] <StevenK> Yes, dexter he's coming for you!
[12:34]  * StevenK modifies the -motu drinking game.
[12:34] <StevenK> "Take a drink if someone mentions yada."
[12:34] <StevenK> "Take two drinks if someone mentions yada, followed by sucks, bites, blows, and so on."
[12:35] <StevenK> "Take three drinks if someone starts complaining about a package since it Build-Depends on yada."
[12:35] <StevenK> "Finish the bottle if they ask you for help."
[12:36] <Fujitsu> StevenK: This needs a wiki page.
[12:36] <StevenK> If it does then I need to dig up the logs. :-)
[12:42] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you must change the build system.
[12:42] <Fujitsu> I must.
[12:43]  * Fujitsu prods yada.
[12:43] <Fujitsu> make: *** No rule to make target `apply-patches'.  Stop.
[12:43] <frenchy> Yes, MOTUs, it's that time of night again.  I ask you kindly to please review my newly uploaded version of Me TV.  I'm still awaiting my first advocate.  See http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=me-tv
[12:43] <Fujitsu> Die. Please.
[12:43] <Fujitsu> Die die die die.
[12:43] <StevenK> That's two more drinks
[12:43] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[12:43]  * Hobbsee just refuses to deal with any yada-infested packages
[12:45]  * Fujitsu has decided to get up to date on the phpmyadmin CVEs now, rather than waiting and collecting more.
[12:45] <Fujitsu> So that means dealing with yada.
[12:45] <Fujitsu> What an aid it is..
[12:46] <frenchy> May I ask what yada is?  Because, as you can imagine,  google's got a lot of stuff on yada.
[12:46] <mok0> uh uh here goes
[12:46] <StevenK> yada - Yet Another Debianisation Aid
[12:46] <Hobbsee> frenchy: you don't want to know
[12:46] <Hobbsee> frenchy: see 'apt-cache show yada'
[12:46] <Fujitsu> !info yada
[12:46] <ubotu> yada: Yet Another Debianisation Aid. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.53 (gutsy), package size 47 kB, installed size 248 kB
[12:47] <DktrKranz> Yet Another Damn A*shole
[12:47] <StevenK> frenchy: Just think, it's debhelper, plus CDBS, plus DBS, plus something horribly icky put into a blender
[12:47] <BugMaN> hi all
[12:47] <Fujitsu> Hi BugMaN.
[12:47] <Hobbsee> StevenK: you forgot quilt
[12:47] <frenchy> BugMaN: HI there.
[12:47]  * Fujitsu uploads it, changing the description to `Yet Another Dangerous Artifact' or so.
[12:48] <StevenK> No, it doesn't do the whole patches as a stack madness
[12:48] <Hobbsee> any packages that attempt to build-dep on yada will not be allowed into the archive
[12:48] <frenchy> Oh ... I thought that CBS was a good thing?
[12:48] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: any chance of replacing yada with a metapackage that says "this has been removed due to evilness"?
[12:48]  * Fujitsu wonders if we can demote it below multiverse.
[12:48] <frenchy> s/CBS/CDBS/
[12:48] <azeem> Hobbsee: did people start to include a private copy of yada to circumvent that yet?
[12:48] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, out of the archive.
[12:48] <Hobbsee> azeem: apparently so.  the description says you can.
[12:48] <mok0> cdbs i great
[12:48] <mok0> s/i/is
[12:48] <StevenK> I managed to crowbar yada out of main, I was proud of that.
[12:49] <azeem> note that some Debian people say the same about CDBS that you say about yada
[12:49] <frenchy> SO CDBS good, yada bad .. got it.
[12:49] <Hobbsee> so, this release you need to crowbar it out of universe.
[12:49] <Hobbsee> azeem: cdbs seems to mostly follow other packaging standards.
[12:49] <Hobbsee> azeem: yada just does evil mutating things.
[12:49] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure the two can be put in the same basket
[12:49] <Hobbsee> i mean, cdbs, you will still end up with the same files yous tarted with.
[12:49] <StevenK> CDBS doesn't regenerate the *entire* debian/control
[12:50]  * dholbach changes the topic to: Help out by bitching: We'll start raising MOTU funds! Pay 5$ for every bitchfest you start or participate in! YAY!
[12:50] <mok0> You should not use the control generation feature of cdbs
[12:50] <\sh> Fujitsu, would be cool :)
[12:50] <Hobbsee> dholbach: ROFL!
[12:50] <mok0> hey we're earning cash right now!
[12:50] <Hobbsee> dholbach: do the monies go towards providing the drinks, for the MOTU drinking game?
[12:51] <dholbach> we should REALLY do that
[12:51] <Hobbsee> mutation of the swear jar
[12:51] <StevenK> dholbach: We were thinking of wiki-ifing the -motu drinking game
[12:51] <dholbach> we could start buying ponies for people who do good work in the team :)
[12:51] <Hobbsee> LaserRock: ponies!
[12:52] <StevenK> LaserRock: Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies!
[12:52]  * Hobbsee drinks up
[12:52] <Fujitsu> 31 packages build-depend on that thing. 4 of those are libapache-*, so should be dead anyway.
[12:52]  * Hobbsee checks in the fridge
[12:52] <Fujitsu> Awww, yada doesn't build-dep on itself :'(
[12:52] <Hobbsee> oy!  someone start another rant!  we need more drinks
[12:52] <dholbach> no, please don't - thanks
[12:52] <StevenK> $ wc -l die-yada-die
[12:52] <StevenK> 31 die-yada-die
[12:52]  * dholbach leaves for lunch
[12:52] <Hobbsee>  but we cant play the drinknig game without any drinks!
[12:52] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Heh.
[12:53] <mok0> frenchy: see what you started?
[12:53] <frenchy> Well I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what's wrong with my package and whether I've used CDBS properly ... *cough* ... yes that was a shameless plug.
[12:53] <dholbach> mok0: it wasn't frenchy who started the yada discussion
[12:53] <frenchy> mok0: Oh dear.
[12:53] <Hobbsee> dholbach: it was involving a package using it, that someoen was otuching.
[12:53] <mok0> Ah. ok. But he asked what was wrong with it!
[12:53] <StevenK> It was the other f, Fujitsu
[12:53] <\sh> oh god...I found the best asterisk and web application ever
[12:53] <Fujitsu> \sh: I've almost finished Feisty/Gutsy phpmyadmin up to PMASA-2007-7, and will look at -8 shortly.
[12:54] <StevenK> \sh: Trixbox?
[12:54] <Fujitsu> It was Feisty's phpmyadmin, which is being objectionable.
[12:54] <\sh> dholbach, if you ever want to surprise your girlfriend...www.marcophono.org
[12:54] <\sh> StevenK, nope...it's a joke application
[12:54] <\sh> StevenK, for .de, .ch, and .at :)
[12:54]  * Fujitsu questions the urgency of this upload:
[12:54] <Fujitsu> phpmyadmin (4:2.10.0.2-1) unstable; urgency=low
[12:54] <Fujitsu> * Repackage using debhelper instead of yada (Closes: #417018).
[12:55] <\sh> StevenK, you call, someone and you have predefined sentences...you choose a name and go :)
[12:55] <\sh> btw..if you ever wanted to know how the dinos died...view http://www.sourcecode.de/content/howto-dinosaur-death
[12:58] <zul> morning
[12:58] <Hobbsee> hi zul
[12:59] <zul> hi Hobbsee
[12:59] <Fujitsu> Hi zul.
[13:00] <zul> hey Fujitsu
[13:01]  * zul hates arp poisioning
[13:04] <frenchy> persia mentioned yesterday that I should get in contact with #mythbuntu.  I know what Mythbuntu is ... but I would like to know how to get in contact with them.  Can anyone help me please?
[13:06] <zul>  /join #mythbuntu
[13:06] <StevenK> zul: It's usually the ARP cache that's poisioned
[13:07] <frenchy> Hi zul, so I'm on freenode ... are they on irc.ubuntu.com?
[13:07] <Hobbsee> yes
[13:07] <StevenK> irc.ubuntu.com is Freenode
[13:07] <zul> StevenK: when you run a program and dont really know what you are doing and bring down a subnet (not me, coworker)
[13:09] <StevenK> Hah
[13:09] <frenchy> StevenK: Forgive me, I'm new to this.  ohhh ... it redirects you.
[13:09] <zul> StevenK: such as my shitty life at work ;)
[13:10] <frenchy> That's why I can't find the room ... redirects to #ubuntu-mythtv ... thanks.
[13:12] <siretart> frenchy: sorry? ENOCONTEXT
[13:14] <frenchy> Are you referring to my earlier questions about gxine?
[13:15] <frenchy> siretart: BTW, Hi. That was meant for you ^^^
[13:15] <frenchy> siretart: Or are you referring to my lack of ability to navigate IRC.
[13:15] <frenchy> ?
[13:16] <siretart> yes
[13:18] <frenchy> siretart: Hmmm? Now I'm even more confused?
[13:18] <frenchy> Just like the question mark at the end of that last sentence.
[13:19] <siretart> frenchy: I'm too busy atm to read backlog. the line that higlighted me does not contain enough context
[13:22] <frenchy> siretart: Do my man pages go in a doc directory?  Do my GNOME help pages go in a help directory?  If I have both do I combine them because it kind of seems like overkill to have 2 documentation directories?
[13:22] <frenchy> siretart: yes/no will do.
[13:23] <frenchy> siretart: thanks.
[13:23] <siretart> frenchy: 'your' manpages? gnome? huh?
[13:26] <frenchy> siretart: I'm a developer/packager.  The question is about the normal structure of a upstream project (off-topic, yes, but I have your attention now).  I was looking into gxine (something that you've packaged previously) and thought that you might know "the norm".
[13:28] <siretart> frenchy: ah, I see. well, I'm not sure if there is a norm for that. gxine uses automake, so you might refer to the automake info pages about the GNU recommendations
[13:28] <siretart> frenchy: you might also have a look at the gnu coding standards, they also have recommendation about documentation
[13:29] <frenchy> siretart: Thank you very much.  I'm also using AM.  I'll hunt down the GNU coding standards.
[13:33] <jpatrick> how can I export a new PATH in debian/rules?
[13:33] <azeem> jpatrick: why do you need thatß
[13:33] <azeem> ?
[13:34] <jpatrick> so the build system can find kde4-config in /usr/lib/kde4/bin
[13:37] <jpatrick> which is what it needs to play nice...
[13:40] <mruiz> hi all
[13:41] <jpatrick> hey mruiz!
[13:41] <mruiz> dholbach, I sent you an email ;-)
[13:41] <mruiz> hi jpatrick
[13:41] <jpatrick> mruiz: I sent you an email ;)
[13:41] <dholbach> mruiz: hey, I know, but was until now too busy to reply
[13:42] <mruiz> dholbach, take your time
[13:54] <txwikinger2> if I need to change a file inside the debian folder in order to fix a bug, I just change the file, I don't need to use a patchsystem, right?
[13:55] <ScottK> txwikinger2: Right
[13:55] <txwikinger2> Thanks ScottK
[13:55] <ScottK> No trouble.
[14:00] <huats> hello everyone
[14:17] <slytherin> generally how much time does it take for an updated package to show up in revu web interface after uploading?
[14:18] <ScottK> slytherin: IIRC the cron job that does it runs every 10 minutes
[14:19] <slytherin> ScottK: Ok. I will wait then. :-) I am assuming the same time for account to get created. This is my first upload
[14:20] <ScottK> Yes.  Account gets created after the upload is processed.
[14:25] <slytherin> I have just uploaded latest version of gnusim8085, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=gnusim8085 I am one of the upstream maintainers and trying to take over the maintenance of this package (in Ubuntu). I have already talked with last uploader Barry deFreese and he is ok with this.
[14:32] <cyberix> I'm trying to find the _second_ sponsor for my package pq. I have posted the package to REVU, fixed all problems that have been raised, asked TB to confirm Multiverse inclusion and received approvals for inclusion from Shuttleworth, Zimmerman and Troup. I've also contacted the upstream developer and he said he will subscribe for pq bugs in Launchpad once it gets included in Ubuntu. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=pq
[14:47] <nxvl_work> good morning folks!
[14:56] <cyberix> What are ubuntu.com email addresses? Who can get them? Are they just forwarding services?
[14:57] <ScottK> You have to be an Ubuntu member to get one and yet, they are just forwarded.
[14:57] <ScottK> yet/yes
[14:57] <cyberix> "Ubuntu member"?
[14:58] <Hobbsee> !member
[14:58] <ubotu> Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
[15:01] <dholbach> and MOTU membership include ubuntumembers membership, if you should decide to become one
[15:03] <cyberix> Thanks
[15:10]  * huats notice that dholbach is always reminding that Ubuntu membership is included in MOTU membership :)
[15:11] <dholbach> well, that's what we have the different team councils for :)
[15:12] <huats> :)
[15:12] <huats> I know dholbach, I am just noticing :D
[15:13] <huats> and I understand clearly that you advertise the MOTU membership to become an ubuntu  member
[15:13] <huats> :)
[15:13]  * ScottK thought Ubuntu membership was a requirement to be a MOTU?
[15:13] <huats> ScottK: nope
[15:13] <ScottK> dholbach: When did that change?
[15:14] <huats> nxvl_work: not looking for me today ?
[15:14] <huats> :)
[15:14] <nxvl_work> huats: if you want me to look for you
[15:14] <dholbach> ScottK: when the MC was put in place
[15:14] <nxvl_work> :P
[15:15] <ScottK> Odd as I was made MOTU by the MC, but had to go to CC for membership first.
[15:15] <dholbach> ScottK: could be that you were an ubuntu member already at that time
[15:15] <nxvl_work> MC = MOTU Council & CC = Community Council ?
[15:15] <ScottK> nxvl_work: Yes
[15:16] <ScottK> dholbach: I went for membership first as it was required.
[15:16] <dholbach> ScottK: "2008-05-08 23:47:10 CEST" was the time when ubuntu-dev was made a member of ubuntumembers
[15:16] <dholbach> errrrr
[15:16] <dholbach> wrong date: 2006-05-09 23:47:10 CEST
[15:16] <huats> 2008 ? dholbach  are you sure ?
[15:17] <ScottK> OK.  Maybe I just misunderstood the requirement.
[15:17] <ScottK> If so, I wasn't the only one.  Oh well.
[15:17] <dholbach> ScottK: whenever I see that somebody who's MOTU contributor adds themselves to the CC agenda or wants to join ubuntumembers I let them know
[15:18] <slytherin> dholbach: free to review a package? :-D
[15:18] <ScottK> OK.  Well I became a MOTU when you weren't particularly around much so that'd explain it.
[15:18] <dholbach> nxvl_work: I added MC to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Abbreviations
[15:19] <nxvl_work> dholbach: thnx, but i was just making sure, i have read it around there
[15:19] <dholbach> ScottK: I'll add it to my list to add it to all kinds of "how to become a member" howtos
[15:19] <ScottK> dholbach: Sounds good.
[15:20] <huats> dholbach: that is why I was teasing you about... since you told me that when I told you that I was going to aply for ubuntu membership on the next CC
[15:20] <dholbach> hehe :)
[15:20] <huats> :)
[15:22] <dholbach> weird... why does http://behindmotu.wordpress.com/ have "Luca Falavigna" as title and http://planet.ubuntu.com/ "Desk"?
[15:22] <huats> gouki:  ping
[15:23] <dholbach> hey apachelogger
[15:23] <apachelogger> dholbach: hi
[15:24] <slytherin> Anyone willing to review an updated package gnusim8085?
[15:31] <apachelogger> slytherin: Standards-Version: 3.7.2.2 + add a homepage tag (considering something homepagey is available ;-)
[15:40] <LaserJock> dholbach: because Planet hates me :(
[15:40] <dholbach> LaserJock: but still... NEW INTERVIEWS! :)
[15:40] <LaserJock> dholbach: for some reason Planet is taking the title from the last pic!!
[15:40] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: ponies1
[15:40] <dholbach> yeah, really weird
[15:41] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: ponies!
[15:41] <LaserJock> dholbach: on wordpress.com it's fine, in RSS it's fine. It seems to be only Planet
[15:41] <dholbach> *shrug*
[15:41] <LaserJock> dholbach: so next time I'm gonna try just not giving any pics a title and see if that helps
[15:42] <nxvl_work> here planet ubuntu has "Planet ubuntu" title
[15:43] <\sh> well, our beloved dktr forgot, that he spammed my inbox
[15:43] <\sh> in his first days being a hopeful :)
[15:48] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: get an email?
[15:48] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: no, but i've bugged cprov-lunch about it again
[15:49] <nxvl_work> why is ubuntu community so nice?
[15:49] <nxvl_work> :D
[15:51] <\sh> nxvl_work, because we are all alcoholics
[15:51] <nxvl_work> heh
[15:52] <\sh> at least me .... in this very special moment at work
[15:52] <LaserJock> \sh: or Ubuntuholics ;-)
[15:52] <\sh> this is so crazy here
[15:52] <apachelogger> very special moment?
[15:52] <apachelogger> like always?
[15:52] <\sh> apachelogger, like combots always
[15:52] <apachelogger> right :P
[15:52] <\sh> "\sh please explain the abbrev. 'NFS'"
[15:52] <\sh> what should you do?
[15:52] <\sh> I wrote "no file system"
[15:53]  * proppy beer pleeeassseee
[15:53] <apachelogger> lol
[15:53] <\sh>  /dcc proppy send beer
[15:53] <apachelogger> proppy: join #amarok and write ~order beer :P
[15:53] <\sh> or we have to write something about subversion...
[15:53] <\sh> I mean, every specialist knows what subversion is...but our management?
[15:54] <\sh> nope
[15:54] <\sh> so..."ok...subversion is a VCS...like CVS, bzr, git or whatever you find on google"
[15:55] <\sh> "90% of the developers are working on unix or unix-a-like operating systems, so we only document here the unix version, but for the other 10%, there is also a version for windows"
[15:55] <\sh> -EGETTINGMADATCOMBOTS
[15:57] <slytherin> apachelogger: Anything apart from that? :-)
[15:59] <apachelogger> slytherin: I'm going to take a deeper look in some minutes, but that's what I noticed so far
[15:59] <slytherin> apachelogger: Ok. I will check comments tomorrow morning my time.
[16:00] <apachelogger> k
[16:07] <jcastro> LaserJock: ping a ling
[16:08] <LaserJock> jcastro: yo yo wassssap?
[16:08] <jcastro> you still do all those scientific/.edu-type apps right?
[16:09] <LaserJock> kinda sorta
[16:09] <LaserJock> what's up?
[16:09] <jcastro> I'm looking to reach out to some of those upstreams
[16:09] <jcastro> specifically gnu R and octave are on my list, know any of them perchance?
[16:09] <LaserJock> no actually
[16:10] <jcastro> k
[16:10] <LaserJock> I've not really needed the those apps
[16:10] <LaserJock> but I'm going to try to get at least octave into Main I think for Hardy
[16:10] <LaserJock> so having good contact upstream will be good
[16:10] <jcastro> you have to waste lots of money on matlab before you realize how awesome they are
[16:10] <LaserJock> hehe
[16:11] <LaserJock> my kind of science doesn't often need that
[16:11] <jcastro> cool, let's tag-team the octave people when the time comes then
[16:11] <LaserJock> but my uni has Maple, Matlab, Mathematic freely available so I haven't really had a chance to dig into R and octave
[16:11] <jcastro> yeah
[16:13] <LaserJock> jcastro: how about KDE Edu?
[16:13] <jcastro> unfamiliar with that
[16:13] <jcastro> should I be?
[16:13]  * jcastro adds it to the list
[16:14] <LaserJock> jcastro: well, it's only like the biggest suite of edu software out there ;-)
[16:14] <zul> wheee...i just got laid off
[16:14] <LaserJock> zul: is that a good thing or a bad thing?
[16:15] <zul> bad thing/good thing, kind of new it was coming for a while
[16:15] <LaserJock> jcastro: I actually know a couple people in KDE Edu, and there's some history there with Edubuntu (good and bad)
[16:15] <zul> besides i think half of the company is gone today
[16:16] <LaserJock> nice :/
[16:17] <jcastro> LaserJock: cool, got a point of contact or someone you can intro me to?
[16:18] <LaserJock> jcastro: Anne-Marie Mahfouf is sort of the head of the project
[16:19] <LaserJock> jcastro: she seems to be fairly interested in making sure Edubuntu ships KDE Edu ;-)
[16:19] <jcastro> LaserJock: oh, duh, I think I met her at fosscamp
[16:19] <LaserJock> right
[16:20] <LaserJock> jcastro: and then I work some with Carsten Niehaus who is the Kalzium author
[16:20] <LaserJock> his app is one of the "killer apps" of Linux in education
[16:20] <jcastro> right
[16:20] <jcastro> are either of them MOTUs?
[16:20] <LaserJock> not at all
[16:21] <LaserJock> in fact i think Carsten left Kubuntu as a user for openSUSE because of some data-eating bug in OO.o that didn't get fixed for 6months+
[16:21] <LaserJock> but they're all closet *buntu users ;-)
[16:22] <jcastro> wait, ooo isn't supposed to eat your data?
[16:22] <LaserJock> apparently
[16:22] <joejaxx> :)
[16:23] <LaserJock> jcastro: scientists get a bit upset when there thesis or research paper  gets eaten
[16:36] <\sh> LaserJock, carsten left kubuntu?
[16:37] <LaserJock> \sh: left using it, not sure if he "came back" yet or not
[16:37] <Hobbsee> people_leaving_kubuntu++ :(
[16:37] <LaserJock> it was around Feisty when I talked to him
[16:37] <LaserJock> he said he really liked Kubuntu, but openSUSE didn't eat his data so he didn't have much choice
[16:38] <jcastro> LaserJock: sounds like he needs some latex in his life with some vim.
[16:39] <lucas> wait, scientists use OO.o ?
[16:39] <LaserJock> jcastro: yes yes
[16:39] <LaserJock> lucas: lots yes
[16:39] <nxvl_work> imbrandon: did i have already a new task?
[16:39] <\sh> LaserJock, well..I just have a user who switched to OSuse 10.3 because ubuntu wasn't able to run with his his graphic card since gutsy...in feisty it was working :( and opensuse 10.3 worked oob
[16:39] <LaserJock> my labmate uses MS Office for pretty much everything
[16:40] <lucas> LaserJock: computer scientists don't
[16:40] <LaserJock> I do a majority of my data analysis in Excel ... ewww
[16:40] <LaserJock> lucas: "real" scientists ;-)
[16:40]  * \sh rights documentation in OOffice and converts them into PDF...
[16:40] <lucas> real scientists should use latex :P
[16:40]  * Hobbsee wonders what the OO.O bug was
[16:42] <\sh> Hobbsee, CVE-0666-0815 -> OO.O eats data of scientist...XSS Exploit -> reading MS windows word documents forces OO.O to eat the rest ,-)
[16:43] <\sh> ubotu: if you can't find it, find yourself another job, mr. anderson, do I make myself clear? -> yes, mr. bla
[16:44] <LaserJock> lucas: I do, but I"m a dying breed
[16:45] <LaserJock> lucas: I'm the last "programmer" in my group, everybody just wants to buy programs to do things for them these days :/
[16:45]  * \sh has a drinking problem, he drinks, he get drunk, he falls over the problem
[16:45] <Hobbsee> \sh: :)
[16:46] <apachelogger> -.-
[16:47] <MenZa> lucas, anyone who honestly can't be bothered to fiddle with design elements should use late
[16:47] <MenZa> +x
[16:51] <nxvl_work> con someone take a look on LP: #165030 please
[16:51] <geser> bug #165030
[16:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165030 in bootcd "bootcd FTBFS on hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165030
[16:53] <nxvl_work> need to go
[16:53] <nxvl_work> bbl
[16:58] <dsop> hi, i uploaded a package to revu using dput, but it i cannot see it on revu.tauware.de
[16:59] <bluekuja> dsop, you should wait a bit until it gets published
[16:59] <bluekuja> dsop, how long ago did you pushed it?
[16:59] <dsop> bluekuja: hmm 4 hours?
[17:00] <bluekuja> dsop, strange...what's the package name?
[17:00] <dsop> gcutils_0.0.2
[17:04] <bluekuja> dsop, it has been rejected
[17:04] <bluekuja> dsop, uploads/rejected/gcutils_0.0.2-1_source.changes
[17:05] <bluekuja> dsop, actually I see only a .dsc and a tar.gz
[17:05] <bluekuja> dsop, is it native?
[17:06] <bluekuja> dsop, anyway it seems you did something wrong, maybe your key is not registered correctly
[17:07] <dsop> k, can you register my key? i allready have a launchpad account and a key submited
[17:07] <bluekuja> dsop, LP id?
[17:07] <dsop> https://launchpad.net/~sn-
[17:08] <dsop> bluekuja: thank you very much
[17:08] <bluekuja> dsop, np, you joined the contributors for packages 5 hours ago
[17:08] <bluekuja> dsop, so I guess a keyring resync will fix your problem...let me do it
[17:16] <bluekuja> dsop, resyncing...
[17:16] <bluekuja> will ping you when done
[17:29] <bluekuja> dsop, done
[17:29] <bluekuja> try now
[17:35] <dsop> thanks a lot, i found some errors, i'll try to fix them before.
[17:36] <bluekuja> dsop, ok :)
[17:36] <bluekuja> dsop, let me know if you need something else
[18:28] <no0tic> hi, compiz depends on compiz-gnome on kubuntu too, it should depend on compiz-kde, I think
[18:32] <pochu> no0tic: file a bug requesting a depends: compiz-gnome | compiz-kde
[18:34] <somerville32> Hey, anyone good with Perl here?
[18:34] <somerville32> (packaging)
[18:35] <ScottK> Perl, no.  I've packaged some of it though.  What's the question?
[18:37] <no0tic> pochu, ok
[18:37] <somerville32> ScottK, Well, I'm packaging file_basedir and when it builds it loops asking for my geographical location
[18:38] <ScottK> Odd.
[18:38] <somerville32> The old version built because it didn't use Module::Build (which generates this magic script)
[18:38] <ScottK> Ah.  I've packaged stuff that used Module::Build and not had that particular fun before.
[18:38] <somerville32> If there isn't some magic way of dealing with this, than all our cpan modules are going to break since they're migrating to it.
[18:40] <ScottK> Right, well I'm pretty sure it's not "normal" for that to happen.
[18:45] <somerville32> Is there any way I can pass the script the correcct input at the correct question?
[18:52] <maiatoday> anybody able to answer some noob questions about rules for a python package?
[18:52] <oly-> i would also be intrested in info on python packages,
[18:52] <geser> maiatoday: just ask, if somebody can help you (and is around) he/she will answer you
[18:53] <oly-> i have made a deb from a python program, but not sure what to do with it, want it to end up in ubuntu eventually so need to make sure its okay for that
[18:53] <oly-> if i have missed anything out, or have done anything wrong with it
[18:54] <maiatoday> k, I have most of package files in debian sorted but the rules are confusing me. As I understand executable scripts go into /usr/bin but there are lots of python modules do they also go into into /usr/bin
[18:54] <maiatoday> then there is an xml file where does it go
[18:54] <maiatoday> also if I do all of this the paths in the original source will be wrong so it probably needs changes to work
[18:55] <azeem> maiatoday: python modules are handled by python policy
[18:55] <ScottK> maiatoday: For Python modules, use Python Support or Python Central and they will do the right thing.
[18:55] <azeem> xml files should probably go to /usr/share
[18:55] <azeem> maiatoday: consider reading the FhS
[18:55] <maiatoday> I have pdf for fhs
[18:55] <oly-> i can give a link to a deb, if anyone is willing to take a look, and tell me everything i have done wrong :p
[18:56] <ScottK> oly-: The best thing is to upload the source package to REVU.
[18:56] <geser> !REVU | oly-
[18:56] <ubotu> oly-: REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[18:56] <oly-> source package you mean the deb ?
[18:57] <geser> oly-: the .dsc, .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz
[18:57] <oly-> um, i have not got any of them
[18:57] <geser> the deb is the resulting binary package
[18:57] <geser> oly-: how did you build the deb file?
[18:58] <oly-> um made up the structure of folders i needed, and the debian folder, then placed all files in appropriate folders and ran dpkg-build -b folder
[18:58] <oly-> the packages work because i set up a repository locally to test them
[18:59] <oly-> also made a control and install script and copyright file
[19:00] <oly-> do i need those other files, and how do you go about making them ?
[19:00] <geser> oly-: you should read the packaging guide for how to package proper
[19:00] <geser> !packaging guide | oly-
[19:00] <ubotu> oly-: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
[19:02] <oly-> well that guide assumes you have .dsc orig.tar.gz and diff.gz files
[19:02] <oly-> and i dont, i did actually follow a lot of that,
[19:02] <oly-> thats how i made the control files and chagelogs and the like
[19:03] <oly-> i guess orig.tar.gz is just a tar of all the files, so i can just compress the folder structure, but what are the other files ?
[19:03] <oly-> and how do i make them
[19:04] <oly-> sorry if this seems basic, but i am very new to all this :/
[19:05] <oly-> i guess best thing is just to upload to revu and see what people say
[19:05] <somerville32> oly-, What are you packaging?
[19:06] <somerville32> And the *orig.tar.gz tarball is the original tarball downloaded untouched
[19:06] <oly-> well there is no original tarball unless i make one, and its a python program
[19:07] <oly-> and its a web based management console,
[19:07] <somerville32> How did you download it then?
[19:07] <somerville32> File by file?
[19:07] <oly-> bzr branch :p
[19:08] <oly-> its a program i have written by the way
[19:08] <geser> oly-: you need a tar.gz if you want it in Ubuntu
[19:08] <somerville32> What is it's license?
[19:08] <somerville32> *its
[19:08] <oly-> okay, well thats easy i will just make a tar.gz file
[19:09] <oly-> its gpl, with an exception for openssl
[19:10] <oly-> do i need these as well .dsc, .diff.gz to get it into ubuntu, because i do not know what they are
[19:12] <mdomsch> oly-, you might look at how I packaged firmware-tools
[19:12] <mdomsch> git tree at http://linux.dell.com/git/firmware-tools.git/
[19:13] <mdomsch> it uses python setuptools too
[19:13] <oly-> okay, will see if it helps
[19:14] <geser> oly-: if you have done the packaging right you get the .dsc and .diff.gz when you call dpkg-buildpackage -S
[19:14] <mdomsch> make tarball; make deb DIST=hardy; make sdeb DIST=hardy
[19:14] <mdomsch> the 'make sdeb' step is really dpkg-buildpackage -S
[19:14] <oly-> oh right and because i used dpkg -b to make it i did not
[19:34] <ScottK> twitch
[19:34] <somerville32> What package contains Module::Build?
[19:35] <ScottK> somerville32: libmoldule-build=perl
[19:35] <ScottK> That'd be module of course.
[19:35] <ScottK> Urgh.  Can't type at all today
[19:35]  * ScottK tries again
[19:35] <ScottK> libmodule-build-perl
[19:36] <ScottK> Better.
[19:38] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: desktop-multiplier!!
[19:38] <somerville32> Woot
[19:38] <somerville32> I did it :]
[19:38]  * somerville32 rocks.
[19:39] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: yeah
[19:40] <Burgundavia> I am shocked
[19:40] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: the 1-week packaging job that will never die :-)
[19:40] <imbrandon> mmm coolaid
[19:41] <imbrandon> moins Burgundavia LaserJock somerville32 ScottK
[19:41] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: ask for more money
[19:41] <ScottK> heya imbrandon
[19:41] <ScottK> somerville32: What'd you have to do?
[19:42] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: maybe I should :-)
[19:42] <\sh> grmpf....
[19:42] <\sh> I'm really sick and tired of this discussion...set it to invalid bug #157099
[19:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157099 in gstreamer "Automatic installation of DVD CSS support" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157099
[19:43] <somerville32> ScottK, It turns out it was trying to download libmoodule-build-perl its self.
[19:43] <ScottK> somerville32: Ah.  That's never good.
[19:43] <LaserJock> \sh: then don't read it :-)
[19:44] <\sh> LaserJock, lol...what can I do, that LP is sending me this...
[19:44]  * \sh 's not even subscribed to gstreamer
[19:45] <apachelogger> intrusive LP
[19:45] <imbrandon> apachelogger: finaly going for MOTU :)
[19:45] <\sh> anyways...as long there is noone who can pay a lawyer to make this once and for all clear, invalid
[19:45] <\sh> harhar...apachelogger for motu...come on and cheer
[19:45] <\sh> ^^
[19:46] <ScottK> \sh: Where's your application?
[19:46] <\sh> headline: amarok replaces rhythmbox in gnome? :)
[19:46] <imbrandon> hahaha
[19:46] <\sh> ScottK, I'm not ready yet :)
[19:46] <apachelogger> imbrandon: haha, finally after years
[19:46] <apachelogger> \sh: oh, ah, don't tell anyone!
[19:46] <apachelogger> that's our secret master plan
[19:47] <ScottK> IIRC pitti did Hobsee's core-dev application.  Maybe I should do one for \sh for MOTU.
[19:47] <LaserJock> \sh: ewwww, we don't need Amarok in gnome thank you ;-)
[19:47] <Burgundavia> \sh: lets do that. I like lots of tabs. Especially sideways ones that don't have the full text on them
[19:47] <Burgundavia> after that, we can replace Nautilus with upstream's Konqueror, all the features somebody will ever need!
[19:47] <\sh> Burgundavia, you know that rhythmbox is not able to deal with .m3u files? not those ones from jamendo? :)
[19:48] <Burgundavia> yes it is
[19:48] <Burgundavia> I use Jamendo all the time
[19:48] <\sh> Burgundavia, s/konqueror/dolphin/
[19:48] <\sh> Burgundavia, not working for me
[19:48] <\sh> Burgundavia, I know that shoutcast is working
[19:48]  * apachelogger notes that rythmbox is not working for a lot of people
[19:48] <apachelogger> not even for me
[19:48] <\sh> apachelogger, not true
[19:48] <\sh> apachelogger, most of the times it's working
[19:48] <apachelogger> kinda :P
[19:49] <oly-> quick question do i need a debian/rules files for a python program seeing that nothing needs to be built
[19:49]  * \sh is a pragmatic user..and developer..use the source which is working for yourself
[19:49] <\sh> oly-, if you need a debian package, yeah
[19:49] <apachelogger> maybe everyone who told me just got the wrong approach of using it
[19:49] <LaserJock> I really like rythmbox, it's done everything I need it to do. I guess I'm just one of those special people ;-)
[19:50] <oly-> is there an example i can use to see what is needed in it for a python program
[19:50] <\sh> LaserJock, the jamendo plugin doesn't support "login" into jamendo...
[19:50] <apachelogger> LaserJock: I'd rather say the ones for whom it's not working are special :P
[19:50] <apachelogger> special and strange
[19:50] <somerville32> oly-, catfish
[19:50] <somerville32> !catfish
[19:50] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about catfish - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[19:50] <somerville32> !info catfish
[19:50] <ubotu> catfish: A file search tool that support several different engines. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.1-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 11 kB, installed size 144 kB
[19:50] <oly-> thxs
[19:50] <\sh> oly-, apt-cache search ^python- |less just grep one of it
[19:51] <\sh> or that what apachelogger said..he knows more then me
[19:52]  * apachelogger turns out to be a redirect to \sh
[19:52] <apachelogger> I think we are looped here
[19:53] <\sh> apachelogger, next linuxtag...you will drink a lot more beer ,-)
[19:53] <apachelogger> I might not be there
[19:53] <apachelogger> \sh: Abi is around that very time of the year :|
[19:53] <\sh> apachelogger, ah...? you will.....the force will be with me
[19:54]  * Nightrose is with \sh here - apachelogger you have to
[19:54] <LaserJock> \sh: ah, well maybe that's my problem, i don't use any plugins and I don't listen to any music form the net
[19:54] <oly-> are you sure rules is required, that catfish one does not contain one
[19:54] <apachelogger> \sh: oh, well, not if I'm a motu by then :P
[19:55] <\sh> apachelogger, ok..if you are not a motu by then, you'll have to come :)
[19:55] <apachelogger> aye
[19:55] <somerville32> oldOfcoruse it contains a rules file
[19:55] <somerville32> erm
[19:56] <apachelogger> oly-: +++ catfish-0.3/debian/rules
[19:56] <somerville32> oly-, Ofcourse it contains a rules file. How would it get installed?
[19:56] <\sh> apachelogger, as  said, for amarok 2.0 there is only one demo-song available ,) http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/7505/
[19:56] <oly-> it has debian/control debian/md5sums debian/postinst debian/postrm debian/prerm and thats it, does not even have changelog which i though was required
[19:56] <somerville32> I packaged it
[19:56] <somerville32> and I'm sure there is debian/rules and debian/changelog
[19:56]  * apachelogger tells Nightrose to sell \sh @ ebay
[19:56] <oly-> http://ubuntu2.cica.es/ubuntu/ubuntu/pool/universe/c/catfish/catfish_0.3-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[19:56] <oly-> thats where i got it from
[19:56] <apachelogger> Oo
[19:57] <apachelogger> omg
[19:57] <\sh> apachelogger, CC licencsed please
[19:57] <somerville32> oly-, Thats the binary package
[19:57] <apachelogger> oly-: the .deb is the binary
[19:57] <somerville32> oly-, You need the source package
[19:57] <apachelogger> oly-: you have to check the sources
[19:57]  * apachelogger notes redundancy and stops writing
[19:57] <oly-> oh but its python surely source and binary are the same thing
[19:57] <LaserJock> no
[19:57] <geser> oly-: dget -x http://ubuntu2.cica.es/ubuntu/ubuntu/pool/universe/c/catfish/catfish_0.3-0ubuntu1.dsc
[19:57] <apachelogger> oly-: package binary vs. package source
[19:58] <apachelogger> vs. source
[19:58] <somerville32> apt-get source catfish
[19:58] <geser> oly-: dget is in devscripts
[19:58]  * Nightrose goes to ebay and makes an auction to sell \sh :P
[19:58] <apachelogger> package source includes a debian directory in compairison to source
[19:58] <\sh> yeah....
[19:58] <apachelogger> package binary is the binary created from package source
[19:58] <\sh> CVE Callboy for sale
[19:59] <apachelogger> Nightrose: use the money for getting a bugzilla dev afterwards
[19:59] <Nightrose> haha - will do apachelogger - how much do you think we will get for \sh?
[19:59] <apachelogger> hm, depends on wheter you sell him part by part of as a whole
[20:00] <apachelogger> latter might be less (about 10 bucks I guess)
[20:00] <Nightrose> hmm I think I will stick to whole here
[20:00] <\sh> apachelogger, bah...you need a bugzilla guru? I need a new job? let's go, dude ,-)
[20:00] <apachelogger> who wants a drinking nerd anyway
[20:01] <ScottK> Did someone say drinking?
[20:01] <apachelogger> \sh: talk to Nightrose, she knows the less important stuff I don't care about
[20:01] <\sh> apachelogger, I'll tell you the very same sentence during linuxtag ,-)
[20:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: ye want a beer as well?
[20:01]  * ScottK prefers Scotch, but a beer will do.
[20:01] <apachelogger> ScottK: join #amarok
[20:01] <Nightrose> \sh: we need something for rokymotion to get hold of our todos - it´s a mess currently
[20:02] <apachelogger> hm
[20:02] <\sh> Nightrose, whatever you need...give me a link...I'm a 36 year old hacker and I know something about QT ?! ;)
[20:02] <ScottK> apachelogger: Thanks
[20:02] <\sh> wahhhh....
[20:02] <apachelogger> \sh: don't talk to Nightrose, she doesn't know what I'm talkin bout :P
[20:02] <\sh> I'm older then nightrose and apachelogger
[20:02] <apachelogger> \sh: we need a proper bug tracker
[20:02] <apachelogger> that's all
[20:02] <\sh> apachelogger, lol...use launchpad
[20:02] <apachelogger> with release nomination and tagging and stuff
[20:03] <Nightrose> apachelogger: did I miss something? :P
[20:03]  * ScottK thinks \sh is a youngster
[20:03] <\sh> apachelogger, you'll get emails about packages you don't now anything
[20:03] <apachelogger> \sh: I'd rather avoid the discussion about switching :P
[20:03] <LaserJock> \sh is probably as old as Nightrose and apachelogger combined :-)
[20:03] <\sh> ScottK, *kick*
[20:03]  * ScottK definitely.
[20:03] <\sh> ScottK, I know that I'm much younger then norsetto or you
[20:03] <LaserJock> pfft
[20:03] <\sh> but much older then dholbach e.g. ,-)=
[20:03]  * Nightrose knows that apachelogger and she combined = 42
[20:03] <LaserJock> that's not saying much ;p
[20:04] <ScottK> Heck, you're even younger than bddebian.
[20:04]  * apachelogger notes that jpatrick is even younger :P
[20:04] <\sh> -EFCK that's right
[20:04] <LaserJock> well
[20:04] <apachelogger> I actually feel rather old -.-
[20:04] <LaserJock> jpatrick is usually younger than everybody
[20:04] <apachelogger> very demotivating
[20:04] <LaserJock> I just had a birthday
[20:04] <jpatrick> apachelogger: not my fault
[20:04] <\sh> hmm...I'm looking much younger then ogra
[20:04] <LaserJock> now I'm more than 1/4 century old :(
[20:04] <\sh> .oO(hopefully)=
[20:04] <apachelogger> jpatrick: did anyone actually ever see you for real?
[20:05]  * imbrandon turns 29 in a less than a month
[20:05] <ScottK> LaserJock: Happy Birthday
[20:05]  * apachelogger suspects jpatrick just claims to be the youngest
[20:05] <LaserJock> \sh: you don't have to deal with running a distro by yourslef ;-)
[20:05] <LaserJock> imbrandon: old fart ;-)
[20:05] <jpatrick> apachelogger: hmm, you could ask the admin of kubuntu-es, we've met
[20:05] <ScottK> have/choose
[20:05] <imbrandon> lol
[20:05] <apachelogger> jpatrick: he could be your alter ego
[20:05] <\sh> LaserJock, oh...I know ogra in RL...so I know how he looked before and after edubuntu ;)
[20:05] <LaserJock> imbrandon: don't worry, before long I'll be gummin' my food too
[20:06] <imbrandon> hahahaha
[20:06] <LaserJock> \sh: true
[20:06]  * apachelogger notes to meet up with jpatrick @ next somewhat important event
[20:06] <ogra> \sh, sadly true
[20:06] <LaserJock> \sh: but ogra's so sexy ;-)
[20:06] <jpatrick> apachelogger: when you pop by Spain, sure :)
[20:06] <ScottK> imbrandon: Are you going to be in KC around Christmas?
[20:07]  * ogra hugs LaserJock 
[20:07] <imbrandon> ScottK: yup
[20:07] <apachelogger> jpatrick: people speak spanish there, don't they?
[20:07] <imbrandon> ScottK: just puttin up lights today
[20:07]  * ajmitch hardly gets to meet anyone
[20:07]  * LaserJock would love to have a pic of ogra when he arrived at UDS-Paris ;-)
[20:07] <apachelogger> ajmitch: now that's a shame... why is that?
[20:07] <ScottK> imbrandon: Maybe we can get together for lunch or something.  My family is coming out to visit my Dad.
[20:07] <ajmitch> because I'm a very long way from everywhere
[20:07] <\sh> LaserJock, he is :)
[20:07] <jpatrick> apachelogger: they claim to, it's actually a mix of Flemish and South Indoneisan
[20:07] <ScottK> ajmitch: except the sheep
[20:08] <apachelogger> ajmitch: where are you located?
[20:08] <\sh> LaserJock, but he was more sexy when he worrked for ISH during the time he introduced me to ubuntu :)
[20:08] <ScottK> apachelogger: Small island very far south full of sheep.
[20:08] <LaserJock> apachelogger: I nice little island in the middle of nowhere
[20:08] <apachelogger> lol
[20:09] <\sh> but /me has more crinkles then the last time ogra saw me
[20:09] <ogra> LaserJock, probably elmo could draw it from the top of his head, i think he still has sleepless nights because of it :)
[20:09] <slangasek> oh well, Flanders is just the Spanish Netherlands anyway
[20:09] <ajmitch> and this is why I don't want to meet these people, they can't help but joke about it
[20:09] <imbrandon> ScottK: cool, yea sounds good, got a pen ? i'll give you my # and you can ring me when you are arround town
[20:09] <\sh> ogra, btw...did you sing during the jam session?
[20:09] <ScottK> imbrandon: Sure. just /msg me.
[20:09] <imbrandon> k
[20:09] <LaserJock> ogra: I know I do ;-)
[20:10] <\sh> ogra, oh and btw...a friend of mine is living neer kassel..so be prepared to have guest in the near future
[20:10] <apachelogger> hm
[20:10] <\sh> s/neer/near/
[20:11] <apachelogger> ajmitch seems to be pretty much on the other side of the world
[20:12] <\sh> apachelogger, well just a few miles from austria ,-)
[20:12] <geser> apachelogger: ajmitch is on the opposite to spain
[20:12] <\sh> ajmitch, still dunedin?
[20:12]  * apachelogger thinks a UDS should be done there
[20:13] <apachelogger> just think about... nerds hacking in the middle of a sheep flock
[20:13] <\sh>  /msg sabdfl please sponsor apachelogger for new zealand, kthxbye
[20:13] <\sh> \sh -> approeved
[20:13]  * apachelogger gets a ticket
[20:14]  * \sh can't be sponsored anymore for any UDS...too much alcohol involved
[20:14] <\sh> oh ... where is my beer
[20:14] <somerville32> \sh, they won't sponsor you? lol
[20:15]  * apachelogger notes that the older \sh gets, the more he has to sleep, the less he can drink
[20:15] <geser> \sh: there is a limit?
[20:15] <\sh> apachelogger, wrong
[20:15] <\sh> somerville32, tbh, I was sponsored, I don't need to work anymore in my sparetime ,-)
[20:16] <\sh> geser, I thought every now and then...so every 2 years or so
[20:17] <\sh> geser, I don't care..I had to read some specs, that was more then I could take
[20:17] <ScottK> Be careful \sh.  Now they make you use Gobby.
[20:17] <somerville32> I would love to go
[20:17]  * geser too
[20:18] <\sh> ScottK, they used gobby in 2005 already
[20:18] <apachelogger> ah \sh should have a look at the licensing of ksquirrel
[20:18] <ScottK> \sh: Ah, so it's a known horror then.
[20:18] <\sh> ScottK, one of the apps I love
[20:18] <\sh> ScottK, pkern is living next to me..I know him personally...:)
[20:18] <ScottK> It's actually very good for what it does.
[20:19] <\sh> ScottK, don't tell anybody that "undo" would be a cool function for gobby
[20:19] <ScottK> Yes, I was actually poking fun at him and hoping he'd react.
[20:19] <Nightrose> *lol*
[20:19]  * Nightrose notes to bug pkern about undo in gobby when she meets him in 2 days
[20:19]  * ScottK made an actual Gobby feature request after experiencing it at UDS.
[20:20] <\sh> ScottK, I really have to say, he is young...I was surprised how young phillip was...and he needs really a applause for his work on gobby
[20:20] <Nightrose> +1
[20:20]  * ScottK agrees.
[20:20]  * ScottK would just like if better if it were Kobby.
[20:21] <apachelogger> ^_^
[20:21] <\sh> ScottK, hmmm..obby -k or obby -g ?
[20:21]  * imbrandon notes to self to reinstall kde ( vs fluxbox ) when ScottK gets in town :)
[20:21]  * ScottK tends to like native KDE stuff better.
[20:21] <ScottK> imbrandon: I'm not religious about it.  You should use what works for you.
[20:21] <LaserJock> darn it, some days I really hate file systems
[20:22] <ScottK> Just blame norsetto if it goes wrong.
[20:22] <\sh> oh damn..if anyone wants to listen to a mixture of "I do trance but my name is jarre" please do http://www.jamendo.com/de/album/5172/
[20:22] <norsetto> what did I do again?
[20:22] <imbrandon> ScottK: heh i was/am one of the original kubuntu fanbois hehe ( after Rid*dell ofcourse ) :P
[20:22] <\sh> LaserJock, -EUSEORACLEFS
[20:22] <ScottK> norsetto: ;-)
[20:23] <\sh> imbrandon, and amu and chris halls
[20:23] <imbrandon> \sh: ewwww
[20:23] <LaserJock> I have a nice 320GB external disk I'm using for backups
[20:23] <ScottK> imbrandon: I've sort of guessed.
[20:23] <\sh> imbrandon, very nice music...I have to say
[20:23] <imbrandon> \sh: yea, thus the "one of" :)
[20:23] <LaserJock> so today i took it to work with the bright idea of backing up all my research
[20:23] <LaserJock> but the thing is ext3 and I have OS X
[20:23] <ScottK> This doesn't sound good.
[20:24] <imbrandon> LaserJock: osx should mount ext3 no problems
[20:24] <LaserJock> so I'm able to read ok
[20:24] <\sh> LaserJock, you can buy 2 500GB sata disks for 55 euros from me ;)
[20:24] <LaserJock> imbrandon: it doesn't unless you install this thing from sourceforge
[20:24] <LaserJock> \sh: I don't have anything that'll run sata, sorry
[20:25] <ScottK> ... install this thing from sourceforge...  That almost never ends well.
[20:25] <apachelogger> \sh: oh, I think the combots managers might not like that :P
[20:25] <\sh> LaserJock, well, you can switch to SAS with a converter..no prob ;)
[20:25] <LaserJock> ScottK: well, it works so far ok in read-only
[20:25] <\sh> apachelogger, sure they like it..it was presented on ebay
[20:25] <apachelogger> lol
[20:25] <LaserJock> but I can't exactly back up to a read-only disk
[20:25] <apachelogger> talking about ebay
[20:26] <apachelogger> Nightrose: what's the status on \sh's auction?
[20:26] <ScottK> LaserJock: Can you just rsync to the box at home?
[20:26] <imbrandon> LaserJock: mount_ext2 -x /dev/disk0s3 /Volumes/Linux
[20:26] <\sh> apachelogger, you can buy one of our servers for 2.3K euros...16x 500GB sata disks, 16GB ram, 2x dual core amd....you can compile more then canonical can compile in their DC...tested
[20:26] <apachelogger> * DDS plugin is taken from KImageIO plugin from kdelibs 3.4.0 (which is under GPL)
[20:27] <LaserJock> ScottK: might have to, but I have like 60GB+ of data
[20:27] <Nightrose> apachelogger: had to postpone it since I really have to get this paper done - but how about I take pictures on thuersday of \sh? auctions with pictures always work better ;-)
[20:27] <imbrandon> LaserJock: mount it as ext2
[20:27] <apachelogger> Nightrose: ya, k
[20:27] <apachelogger> \sh: hrrhrr
[20:27] <\sh> Nightrose, never...apachelogger wants to marry me then
[20:27] <Nightrose> *lol*
[20:27] <apachelogger> Oo
[20:27]  * apachelogger is getting some doubts
[20:27] <\sh> apachelogger, hrrhrr
[20:28]  * apachelogger comes back
[20:28] <apachelogger> I really doubt that
[20:28]  * \sh was in bed with apachelogger...no joke no lie ,->
[20:28]  * ScottK believes
[20:28]  * Nightrose knows
[20:28] <Nightrose> :P
[20:28]  * apachelogger can't remember
[20:28] <\sh> hihi
[20:29] <\sh> pictures, there are always pictures hehehe
[20:29] <apachelogger> hmm... pictures or it didn't happen
[20:29] <LaserJock> imbrandon: that's not gonna blast anything away right, it's jut not using journaling?
[20:29] <imbrandon> LaserJock: correct
[20:29] <apachelogger> * DDS plugin is taken from KImageIO plugin from kdelibs 3.4.0 (which is under GPL)
[20:29] <apachelogger> oh
[20:29]  * \sh loves those opensource guys and gals
[20:29] <apachelogger> now I doubt that ksquirrel is any reasonable
[20:30] <apachelogger> why would someone copy a whole plugin from kdelibs if the app depends on kdelibs anyway?
[20:31] <imbrandon> ignorance ?
[20:31] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[20:32]  * apachelogger official declares ksquirrel a big code mess
[20:32] <\sh> apachelogger, I think gczessi has still some
[20:32] <\sh> apachelogger, but this is really bad http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=28
[20:32] <\sh> apachelogger, or this one http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=21
[20:32] <apachelogger> meh, the one before is awful
[20:32] <apachelogger> http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=27
[20:33] <apachelogger> \sh: that's just normal :P
[20:33] <apachelogger> Nightrose: isn't it?
[20:33] <Nightrose> it is
[20:33] <Nightrose> I like this one: http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=27
[20:33] <\sh> apachelogger, these were combots good times http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=1
[20:33] <ScottK> apachelogger: You look insane enough in that picture that I'm reconsidering my position on MOTU for you ;-)
[20:33] <ian_brasil> ola..my ppa lists deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ianlawrence/ubuntu hardy main for my sources.list .. main seems wrong to me
[20:33] <apachelogger> Nightrose: yah, makes me look insane :P
[20:34] <Nightrose> apachelogger: you are - so what´s the problem? :P
[20:34] <apachelogger> -.-
[20:34] <\sh> guys,
[20:34] <ScottK> ian_brasil: PPA questions are best asked in #launchpad
[20:34] <apachelogger> ScottK: all \sh's fault... he made me drink beer ;-)
[20:34] <ian_brasil> ok
[20:34] <LaserJock> imbrandon: it's still read-only :(
[20:34] <LaserJock> ian_brasil: and main is right
[20:34] <\sh> if you ever wanted to know who jono is, and how he looks like while he had some really heavy sexual opensource strike
[20:34] <\sh> http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?page=1&img=3
[20:35]  * ScottK notes that dholbach appears to really be enjoying that
[20:35] <Nightrose> ScottK: he was ;-)
[20:35] <\sh> or that apachelogger is still using ubuntu as his favorite distro as amarok kde guy...please have a look here http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?page=1&img=8
[20:35] <imbrandon> the one i have somewhere with jono boggling over 2 strippers in california is better
[20:35] <somerville32> Can someone sponsor my upgrade? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfile-basedir-perl/+bug/172244
[20:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172244 in libfile-basedir-perl "New upstream version (0.03)" [Low,Confirmed]
[20:35] <imbrandon> :)
[20:36] <\sh> imbrandon, pictures please ;)
[20:36] <imbrandon> heh one sec
[20:36] <apachelogger> right, ScottK, img=8 should make you reconsider your reconsideration ;-)
[20:37] <ScottK> Nahh
[20:37] <ScottK> somerville32: Any particular reason you did that 12 hours after someone else said they were working on it?
[20:37] <\sh> but you have jono as well as a very nice son-in-law http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?page=2&img=13
[20:38] <somerville32> ScottK, That comment wasn't there when I started last night
[20:38] <\sh> mamarok is still loving him :)
[20:38] <somerville32> ScottK, (Just started before I went to bed)
[20:38] <somerville32> ScottK, And just noticed it now when I refreshed to add the attachment
[20:38] <apachelogger> \sh: that would make him an amarok as well
[20:38] <ScottK> somerville32: OK.
[20:38] <apachelogger> or at least stepamarok
[20:38] <\sh> apachelogger, bah...that's incest ,-)
[20:39] <Nightrose> hmm jono = stepdadrok? I like that idea ;-)
[20:39] <\sh> and the bad looks if you wear a debian shirt as a ubuntu dev....
[20:39] <\sh> http://www.kubuntu-de.org/bilder/events/linuxtag-2007?img=25
[20:39] <\sh> from apachelogger and nightrose that is ,-)
[20:40] <Nightrose> *lol* I didn´t give you bad looks for that
[20:40] <Nightrose> I even liked that shirt
[20:40] <\sh> Nightrose, let's marry then ,-)
[20:40] <Nightrose> haha
[20:41]  * apachelogger objects on that
[20:41] <apachelogger> no amarok marries anyone without my approval!
[20:41]  * Nightrose notes that apachelogger looks a lot taller than her on that pic - is it really _that_ bad?
[20:41] <\sh> apachelogger, you'll be the witness
[20:41] <apachelogger> Nightrose: yep
[20:41] <Nightrose> :(
[20:41] <Nightrose> damn it
[20:41] <Nightrose> ;-)
[20:42] <apachelogger> small rose with big heart :)
[20:42] <Nightrose> ahhhhhhhh *hug apachelogger*
[20:42] <Nightrose> ;-)
[20:42]  * \sh has the real opportunity to live in a and near country/countries where opensource has so many contributors and fans..thx
[20:43]  * \sh hugs apachelogger and Nightrose and everyone else
[20:43]  * Nightrose rehugs \sh :)
[20:43]  * apachelogger hugs everyone + mantis
[20:44]  * ScottK considers checking for diabetes (sugar level is very high in here).
[20:44] <\sh> oh people check try^d (jamendo)
[20:45] <\sh> the name of the album is "listen"
[20:45] <\sh> verynice
[20:45] <Nightrose> \sh: yea try^d is awesome
[20:46] <\sh> Nightrose, it is really...one of the good stuff on jamendo
[20:46] <Nightrose> jep - check out systyle (sp?)
[20:47] <apachelogger> woah
[20:47]  * apachelogger is listening to Linstru by Systylé on Loin d'en naître [Amarok]
[20:47] <apachelogger> french ska ftw!
[20:48] <somerville32> :]
[20:48]  * somerville32 is listening to "silence by nothing"
[20:48] <\sh> who was singing "Waltzing Matilda"?
[20:48] <alvinc> "Far from being born", is that what that means?
[20:48] <\sh> what was the guys name
[20:48] <apachelogger> somerville32: that sounds kinda boring -.-
[20:49] <apachelogger> alvinc: something like that
[20:49] <alvinc> Hm.  I'm trying to grasp the connotation.  lol
[20:49]  * somerville32 is now listening to Britteny Spears.
[20:49] <apachelogger> Oo
[20:49] <alvinc> o_O
[20:49]  * apachelogger skanks for a cigarette
[20:50] <somerville32> I always had a fantasy that geeks didn't smoke, lol
[20:50]  * TheMuso would rather listen to classical music than Britney... eeew
[20:50] <somerville32> Her new song is that bad.
[20:50] <somerville32> But I can't say I'm a fan of her
[20:50] <alvinc> geeks not smoke?  um.......
[20:50] <alvinc> lol
[20:50] <somerville32> I like James Blunt
[20:50] <TheMuso> She can't sing. Her music has always sucked. Enough said.
[20:51] <\sh> ah...tom waits
[20:51]  * Nightrose is listening to Over The Rainbow by Israel Kamakawiwo'ole on Compilation [Amarok]
[20:51] <\sh> on "Small Change"
[20:52]  * imbrandon puts on some britney for TheMuso 
[20:52]  * ajmitch wonders why people would think that geeks don't smoke
[20:52]  * _MMA_ , at 1st glance, thought it went like: "somerville32: I like James Blunt" "TheMuso: She can't sing. Her music has always sucked. Enough said." lol :D
[20:52]  * TheMuso puts on a pair of headphones with some Randy Waldman Trio.
[20:52] <alvinc> :wonders the same
[20:52] <slangasek> somerville32: there are German geeks
[20:52] <ajmitch> they couldn't have seen the inevitable smokers' BOF at UDS :)
[20:53] <TheMuso> _MMA_: lol
[20:53]  * somerville32 does the Brittany teeny-bop.
[20:53] <imbrandon> ajmitch: hehe
[20:53] <nenolod> apachelogger, libprojectm1 in hardy and libvisual-projectm will eventually be in hardy too. let me know if you need anything else for it to work in amarok :P
[20:53] <\sh> ajmitch, the smokers bof at UBZ was nice
[20:53]  * imbrandon smokes like a freighttrain
[20:53] <somerville32> I'm allergic
[20:53]  * nenolod doesn't smoke
[20:53] <slangasek> somerville32: the brittany spaniel teeny-bop?
[20:53]  * ScottK has never smoked, but isn't sure why.
[20:53] <nenolod> cigarettes anyway
[20:54] <nenolod> :P
[20:54]  * alvinc smokes quite a bit
[20:54] <somerville32> I've never smoked anything, I have a fear.
[20:54] <alvinc> of?  cancer?
[20:54]  * ScottK has been on fire (a little) so has smoked in that sense.
[20:54] <\sh> http://solosong.net/traubert.html andblow your speakers
[20:54] <somerville32> I'm on fire all the time :P
[20:54] <somerville32> <-- is hawt.
[20:55] <somerville32> alvinc, Diminished lung capacity? I dunno. I just find smoking scary, lol.
[20:55] <alvinc> somerville32:  I find that really kind of fascinating.  You are French?
[20:55] <somerville32> English
[20:55] <zul> smoking is bad mmmmkay drugs are bad mmmmkey
[20:55] <somerville32> lol
[20:56] <alvinc> lol
[20:56]  * ScottK was showing my (then) three year old how to like the gas grill out back.  It took a long time to get lit as a result.  When it finally lit and the fireball passed, /me had neither arm hair, nor some of his eyebrows and there was an 'interesting' smell.
[20:56] <somerville32> lol
[20:56] <somerville32> ScottK, You should have done Cadets as a kid :P
[20:56] <alvinc> oh, burning human parts is really stinky
[20:56] <oly-> can anyone tell me what this means, dpkg-source: error: control file must have at least one binary package part ???
[20:56]  * ScottK also didn't have to worry about her playing with the grill.
[20:57]  * nenolod is glad he doesn't have kids ;p
[20:57] <alvinc> somerville32:  Being English, it's a good thing for you, I think.  It's far too expensive a habit there.  :-)
[20:57] <ScottK> oly-: It means you don't define a binary package in debian/rules and you need to.
[20:57] <somerville32> alvinc, I rather spend my money on my expensive high speed internet, haha
[20:57] <slangasek> dying of lung cancer is expensive anywhere kthxbi ;)
[20:57] <apachelogger> nenolod: wohoo, well, I need a fix for the white window after start issue ;-)
[20:57] <oly-> okay, thxs bit misleading
[20:57] <somerville32> lol
[20:58] <alvinc> dying of anything is actually rather cheap.  fighting against it is expensive.  :)
[20:58] <slangasek> alvinc: anything that costs me the rest of my natural life is expensive
[20:58] <ajmitch> ScottK: you mean debian/control, right?
[20:58] <ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.
[20:58] <nenolod> he could be using cdbs ;)
[20:58] <ScottK> oly-: Sorry - debian/control
[20:58] <ajmitch> nenolod: which wouldn't really make much difference
[20:59] <somerville32> ScottK, Are you looking at bug #172244 or did you just peak at it?
[20:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172244 in libfile-basedir-perl "New upstream version (0.03)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172244
[20:59] <nenolod> ajmitch, yeah i know, but that was a joke based on the fact that cdbs can edit debian/control if you set it up to.
[20:59] <ScottK> somerville32: I just peaked.  I'm on strike from reviewing.
[20:59] <somerville32> ScottK, I'll give you a cookie :(
[20:59]  * ScottK is mostly here for the social aspects and to have stuff to complain about.
[21:00] <nenolod> ScottK, complaining about stuff is always good ;)
[21:00]  * somerville32 turns around to face ajmitch
[21:00] <Kmos> it's better to have the icon in .png ?
[21:01] <oly-> um, where do i specify the binary package ?? under Package: line ?
[21:01] <Kmos> and at .desktop Icon=name , don't mention the extension, right ?
[21:01] <pochu> Kmos: yup for extension
[21:01] <ScottK> oly-: Please pastebin your debian/contro
[21:01] <ScottK> l
[21:01] <pochu> Kmos: for icon, better .png *and* .svg :-)
[21:01] <Kmos> pochu: nice..
[21:02] <Kmos> and don't put the extension..
[21:02] <Kmos> i checked firefox.desktop and it has extension, lol
[21:02] <apachelogger> Oo
[21:02] <oly-> okay link is http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m16f6624f
[21:02]  * ScottK looks
[21:03] <somerville32> LaserJock, Will you sponsor lp #172244 ?
[21:03] <nenolod> oly-, you're missing a binary package declaration
[21:03] <ScottK> oly-: See http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m747e780f for a complete example
[21:03] <somerville32> Is lp dead?
[21:03] <nenolod> oly-, source packages don't have a Description:
[21:04] <nenolod> ScottK, that's a pretty good example
[21:04] <oly-> thanks :)
[21:04] <ScottK> nenolod: Thanks.
[21:04] <nenolod> 'cept Homepage: should be moved from description to Source: package!
[21:04] <ScottK> Yes.  That didn't exist yet when I did that one.
[21:04] <LaserJock> bug #172244
[21:05] <nenolod> ScottK, i figured. i was just being a pedant ;)
[21:05] <apachelogger> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m2d4f35b9
[21:05] <ScottK> nenolod: It's a good thing to mention.
[21:05] <apachelogger> better one :P
[21:05] <\sh> has anyone "tom traubert's blues" by tom waits ?
[21:07] <\sh> the bloddyfcks want to have 1.49 euros for this song :(
[21:08] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I didn't know we had a MOTU named desk. Thankyou Planet.
[21:08] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yes, isn't it wonderful
[21:08] <ScottK> apachelogger: Yes.  It's already updated in svn (just not uploaded): http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/python-modules/packages/pyspf/trunk/debian/control?op=file&rev=0&sc=0
[21:08] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: that one is actually dholbach's doing
[21:10]  * ajmitch doesn't see ponies
[21:10] <Fujitsu> Yay, /bugs/XXX on edge is broken.
[21:10] <ScottK> Fujitsu: No worries.  I'm sure it'll be fixed just fine in no time at all.
[21:10]  * ajmitch drinks
[21:10] <ScottK> ponies???
[21:10] <nenolod> ponies.
[21:10] <ScottK> hmmmm, pony...
[21:11] <LaserJock> ajmitch: dude, I've got so much on my plate today :(
[21:11] <nenolod> ponies and unicorns, infact.
[21:11] <ajmitch> LaserJock: we'll just keep on drinking then :)
[21:12] <\sh> bah....
[21:12] <\sh> amazon sucks
[21:12] <oly-> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m3789c22e
[21:13] <oly-> does that look more correct ?
[21:13] <nenolod> Depends: is wrong
[21:13] <\sh> kissology 1978 - 1991 -> 69,89 euro
[21:14] <oly-> i need ${python:Depends}, do i nenolod ?
[21:14] <nenolod> oly-: Depends: ${source:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, python-pyopenssl (>= 0.6)
[21:14] <zul> for a kiss album? sounds about right since gene simmons is a money grubbing whore
[21:14] <ScottK> oly-: Is it an application or a Python module?
[21:14] <oly-> application
[21:14] <ScottK> OK.
[21:14] <nenolod> oly-, Xs-Vcs-Svn: should only be set if it's maintained in a subversion repo
[21:15] <ScottK> oly-: Also you don't need the replaces.
[21:15] <nenolod> oly-, otherwise, use XS-Vcs-Bzr: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~usmteam/usm/usm
[21:15] <ScottK> Unless it actually replaces something.
[21:15] <nenolod> yes. please remove the Replaces:
[21:16] <PhreeStyle-home> norsetto: hey, you still around?
[21:17] <oly-> okay so http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m3fedf8f2
[21:17] <nenolod> Description is wrong
[21:17] <nenolod> Description's first line should be a synopsis
[21:17] <nenolod> Description: Ubuntu Server Manager core
[21:17] <nenolod>  blurb
[21:17] <nenolod> is how it should be.
[21:18] <oly-> okay, sorted that anything else look out of place
[21:18] <nenolod> btw, there's probably problems with calling it Ubuntu Server Manager (people may think it's an official product of Canonical and/or Ubuntu foundation)
[21:18] <norsetto> PhreeStyle-home: heya, I'm indeed
[21:18] <nenolod> so you might want to clarify somehow that it's not involved with the above
[21:19] <oly-> oh right, clarify it in the description you mean ?
[21:19] <nenolod> yes, and probably on website too.
[21:19] <oly-> okay, good point
[21:20] <\sh> good night folks...cu later
[21:20] <nenolod> bye \sh
[21:29] <somerville32> LaserJock, Can you take a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libfile-basedir-perl/+bug/172244 ?
[21:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172244 in libfile-basedir-perl "New upstream version (0.03)" [Low,Confirmed]
[21:29] <somerville32> What new build system?
[21:29] <somerville32> It builds mine on my box. I think he is using Debian maybe?
[21:31] <LaserJock> somerville32: why am I looking at this? :-)
[21:31] <somerville32> LaserJock, Because I want a sponsor? :P
[21:32] <StevenHarperUK> Any MOTU fancy picking up https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/+bug/165281 ?
[21:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165281 in easycrypt "Candidate revision easycrypt_0.2.1.16-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[21:33] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Did you get links to getting into Debian yesterday?
[21:33] <joejaxx> Hello Everyone :)
[21:33] <somerville32> Hi joejaxx
[21:33] <ScottK> Hello joejaxx
[21:33] <joejaxx> somerville32: :O
[21:33] <StevenHarperUK> Scottk: no,I havnt done that yet, but the main problem is that Truecrypt is'nt built for Debain , there is only a Ubuntu DEB
[21:34] <joejaxx> hello somerville32 ScottK :)
[21:34] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Right, but how hard would it be to build it for Debian instead?
[21:34] <StevenHarperUK> Scottk: TrueCrypt or Easy Crypt?
[21:34] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam and http://python-apps.alioth.debian.org/policy.html
[21:35] <ScottK> I guess I was thinking easycrypt
[21:36] <StevenHarperUK> ScottK: mines a python application not a Module : That second link is for Modules
[21:36] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: It talks about the applications team too (just didn't rename the page)
[21:36] <StevenHarperUK> Scottk: don't get me wrong I want to get it onto Debian too
[21:37] <ScottK> Both the apps and modules team use the same IRC channel and are mostly the same people.
[21:37] <somerville32> LaserJock, :)
[21:38] <ScottK> Since you've got a package that was OK in Ubuntu, it should be pretty easy to get it accepted in Debian.
[21:38] <StevenHarperUK> Scottk: Im a bit drunk now, ill bookmark and check back another night
[21:38] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK: Sounds like a good plan.
[21:38] <LaserJock> somerville32: I'm swamped, sorry :(
[21:38] <somerville32> joejaxx, Are you MOTU?
[21:41] <somerville32> Where is Persia when you need her?
[21:41] <ScottK> somerville32: Him
[21:41] <joejaxx> somerville32: nope i am not
[21:41] <joejaxx> somerville32: lol why does everyone ask me that :P
[21:42]  * somerville32 wants a sponsor.
[21:42] <somerville32> :)
[21:42] <joejaxx> lol :)
[21:42] <joejaxx> become a motu! beat me to it ;)
[21:43] <somerville32> Someday :]
[21:43] <ScottK> somerville32: TheMuso was active in the last hour.  Maybe he's still awake.
[21:43] <somerville32> TheMuso, poke
[21:44] <joejaxx> somerville32: lol look at your https://edge.launchpad.net/~cody-somerville/+packages
[21:44] <joejaxx> somerville32: and then look at mine
[21:44] <joejaxx> somerville32: yours has more :P
[21:44] <joejaxx> somerville32: so you are beating me
[21:44] <joejaxx> :)
[21:45] <joejaxx> somerville32: i do not do enough packaging to become a motu :P
[21:46] <somerville32> whats your lp page?
[21:47] <joejaxx> somerville32: ~joejaxx
[21:48] <joejaxx> plus you have history all the way back to dapper
[21:48] <joejaxx> and edgy
[21:50] <somerville32> joejaxx, You have more uploads than me
[21:50] <joejaxx> somerville32: i do not think so
[21:50] <somerville32> You have 17, I have 16
[21:50] <somerville32> Although two of my uploads aren't counted
[21:50] <joejaxx> ???
[21:50] <somerville32> Explain ??? :P
[21:51] <joejaxx> i do not know
[21:51] <joejaxx> maybe someone accepted a random bug/merge i did
[21:51] <joejaxx> last time i looked it was not that many at all
[21:52] <joejaxx> for example
[21:52] <joejaxx> why is flwm on there?
[21:53] <joejaxx> i do not see my name on the changelog
[21:53] <joejaxx> and i do not remember touching that package either
[21:53] <joejaxx> lol
[21:54] <joejaxx> nor wmifs
[21:54] <joejaxx> somerville32: so alot of those do not count lol :P
[21:55] <zul> must go feed the little fart machine
[21:55] <keescook> Fujitsu: oh!  sorry, I didn't understand the question.  yeah, I need to figure out how to migrate the revision history.
[21:56] <LaserJock> zul: if you stop feeding him does he stop farting?
[21:56] <joejaxx> LaserJock: lol
[21:56] <zul> LaserJock: i think so but he probably stops living as well
[21:56] <ScottK> LaserJock: They cry though and after a while it gets pitful and weak.
[21:57] <LaserJock> zul: one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of things?
[21:57] <ScottK> zul: You're just going to have to decide on your priorities.
[21:58] <LaserJock> oh for goodness sakes! this thing must be USB1
[21:58] <ScottK> LaserJock: rsync would've been faster.
[21:58] <LaserJock> I got my USB external drive hooked up to an old Linux box in the next room, nfs mounted to my OS X machine
[21:59] <ScottK> Ah.
[21:59] <LaserJock> and right now it says it's gonna take 7hrs to transfer 9GB
[21:59] <LaserJock> I think it must be the write speed over USB that's bottlenecking
[22:00] <LaserJock> cause the network is 10MB/s
[22:00] <ScottK> somerville32: You ought to think about Debian Python Application Packaging Team too.
[22:05] <somerville32> ScottK, Think about joining them?
[22:05] <ScottK> somerville32: Yes and get pyneighborhood in Debian.
[22:05] <alvinc> LaserJock:  if you have sysstat installed, you can do the "iostat -xtc" thing to see the wait times on your UDB drive
[22:05] <alvinc> ^UDB^USB
[22:05] <pochu> StevenK: could you please review blueyed's merge for bug 156210?
[22:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156210 in virtualbox-ose "Please update Virtualbox to 1.5.2" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156210
[22:06] <somerville32> ScottK, PyNeighborhood isn't maintained anymore
[22:06] <ScottK> somerville32: Ah.  OK.
[22:06] <somerville32> ScottK, Why do you think I should join the DPAPT?
[22:07] <ScottK> somerville32: I saw you had packaged a Python application for Ubuntu and thought it'd be good to get it into Debian too.
[22:08] <ScottK> In general, I think it's better to try and push things up into Debian where we can and with Python stuff it's easy because of the teams.
[22:08]  * somerville32 nods.
[22:08] <somerville32> I've in the process of pushing Catfish up
[22:09] <ScottK> OK.  That's not Python is it?
[22:09] <somerville32> It is.
[22:09] <LaserJock> alvinc: interesting, what am I looking for?
[22:09] <TheMuso> somerville32: Leave me a message. I'm about to head out.
[22:09] <somerville32> TheMuso, I wanted a sponsor
[22:10] <LaserJock> alvinc: await is 22.82 but I have no idea what that means
[22:10] <ScottK> somerville32: Then DPAPT may be for you.
[22:11] <somerville32> :]
[22:13] <ScottK> somerville32: It'll be far easier to get sponsored there than in debian-mentors.
[22:13]  * somerville32 nods.
[22:14] <somerville32> Can anyone please sponsor bug #172244 ?
[22:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172244 in libfile-basedir-perl "New upstream version (0.03)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172244
[22:17] <blueyed> pochu, StevenK: the merge for virtualbox-ose is "already" outdated. unstable has 2-2 (the merge was for 2).
[22:20] <pochu> Ouch.
[22:23] <PhreeStyle-home> what does fakesync do?
[22:26] <PhreeStyle-home> ScottK: excuse me, do you know what a fakesync is?
[22:26] <LaserJock> PhreeStyle-home: it's a way of syncing a package
[22:26] <LaserJock> PhreeStyle-home: but not via the normal process
[22:26] <LaserJock> normally we request the Ubuntu archive admins to sync a package
[22:27] <LaserJock> but if for some reason that's not able to happen we can manually upload a synced package
[22:27] <PhreeStyle-home> oh, thanks laser
[22:27] <LaserJock> no problem
[22:27] <stgraber> Does any one have a quick way to fix a FTBFS caused by this :
[22:27] <stgraber> /usr/bin/ld: dsa_key.o: relocation R_X86_64_32 against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
[22:27] <stgraber> dsa_key.o: could not read symbols: Bad value
[22:27] <PhreeStyle-home> do we need to change the maintainer for that
[22:28] <stgraber> happens on amd64 not i386 (of course ...)
[22:28] <ScottK> PhreeStyle-home: No
[22:28] <PhreeStyle-home> thanks
[22:28] <LaserJock> PhreeStyle-home: I think not, but we shouldn't really be doing fakesyncs either :-)
[22:29] <PhreeStyle-home> i would hope not :)
[22:29] <geser> stgraber: rebuild with -fPIC
[22:29] <somerville32> geser, Will you sponsor bug #172244 ?
[22:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172244 in libfile-basedir-perl "New upstream version (0.03)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172244
[22:31] <somerville32> Is it possible to build something using a local deb?
[22:32] <mok0> Is there a way to choose an LVM filesystem when installing ubuntu?
[22:32] <somerville32> Hey jdong :]
[22:32] <jdong> yo yo yo, how are you doing? :)
[22:32] <geser> somerville32: any reason to not wait on Debian?
[22:33] <somerville32> geser, because this package is holding up other packages?
[22:33] <somerville32> geser, And then once debian does it, we simply sync
[22:33] <LaserJock> mok0: yep, though perhaps only on the Alt disk
[22:34] <mok0> Ah, OK, the alt disk. Never thought of that. I'll try it..
[22:34] <somerville32> jdong, I was going to ask you to sponsor but maybe geser will :]
[22:34] <mok0> LaserJock: I think it comes up as defauil when installing debian
[22:35] <jdong> somerville32: whee then I can go back to reading about the endoplasmic reticulum!
[22:35] <geser> somerville32: I'm going to bed soon, so jdong can sponsor it if he has time
[22:35] <somerville32> jdong, Grade 10 science? :P
[22:35] <somerville32> jdong, Oh, come sponsor!
[22:35] <mok0> Just got an HP 380 G5 server, will install it tomorrow... :-P
[22:35] <jdong> somerville32: haha no, MIT 7.012 :)
[22:35]  * somerville32 hugs jdong 
[22:36] <jdong> somerville32: you know, reading a genetic sequence and figuring out which basepairs bind to the ER membrane :)
[22:36] <LaserJock> somerville32: which is about as hard as 10th grade science ;-)
[22:36] <superm1_> jdong, could i steal you for a moment for an ack on a backport?
[22:36] <jdong> superm1_: yeah go ahead
[22:36] <jdong> I can multitask :)
[22:37] <superm1_> jdong, bug 165310
[22:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165310 in gutsy-backports "mythbuntu-lirc-generator backport" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165310
[22:38] <jdong> superm1_: yeah, that looks good for backporting
[22:38] <superm1_> jdong, cool thx
[22:40] <somerville32> jdong, I'm back
[22:40] <somerville32> jdong, So you'll sponsor :)
[22:40] <jdong> somerville32: it might cost you some favors ;-)
[22:41] <somerville32> jdong, No problem :)
[22:41] <jdong> haha
[22:44] <somerville32> jdong, Will this be your first sponsor?
[22:44] <jdong> somerville32: yeah, it would :)
[22:44] <jdong> somerville32: hence me stumbling through all the steps :)
[22:44] <somerville32> jdong, Sweet. We're partnered for life now.
[22:44] <jdong> O_o
[22:45]  * jdong gives somerville32 a platonic hug...
[22:45] <somerville32> :D
[22:45] <superm1_> oooo exciting
[22:45]  * somerville32 chants for jdong 
[22:46] <ScottK> Good thing jdong lives in Massachusetts.
[22:47]  * jdong checks his door lock
[22:47] <jdong> doesn't help that my rev-dns often resolves to my building and room numbers :)
[22:49] <somerville32> :)
[22:50] <mok0> HIya ScottK
[22:50] <ScottK> Heya mok0
[22:51] <ScottK> mok0: Got merges all figured out?
[22:51] <mok0> ScottK: uh yes I am working on a few
[22:52] <ScottK> mok0: Good.  That'll be helpful for seeing lots of different packaging situations.
[22:52] <mok0> ScottK:  Yes, it's interesting. Not impressive, though :-)
[22:52] <ScottK> It's good work to be doing for Ubuntu.  There are never enough people to do them all.
[22:52] <mok0> ScottK: Some of those Debian packages would not have gotten in under the strict eyes of the MOTU
[22:53]  * jdong finds typo in interdiff wiki page :)
[22:53] <jdong> $ combinediff -z packagename_newversion-newrevision.interdiff.gz packagename_version-revision.diff.gz | gzip --best -c - > packagename_newversion-newrevision.diff.gz
[22:53] <jdong> ^^ arguments flipped
[22:53] <ScottK> Yes and the reverse is also true.  It helps to think of Debian as a set of individuals rather than a collective and their views and skills vary widely.
[22:53] <ScottK> and/as
[22:54] <ScottK> (the last one)
[22:54] <lifeless> resistance is futile?
[22:54] <lifeless>            ^not
[22:54] <mok0> ScottK: makes sense...
[22:54] <mok0> ScottK: Are you a DD as well?
[22:54] <ScottK> That has advantages and disadvantages just as the Ubuntu team approach does.
[22:54] <ScottK> mok0: Not yet.
[22:55] <ScottK> The Debian New Maintainer process isn't exactly quick.
[22:55] <slangasek> haha
[22:55] <mok0> ScottK: :-)
[22:55] <mok0> ScottK: You'll get there, I'm sure. Have you got some good contacts?
[22:56] <jdong> *grumble* stupid interdiff
[22:56] <ScottK> That and I have a full time job, a wife, and three children, so finding time to work on it isn't easy either.
[22:56] <mok0> ScottK: hehe
[22:56] <ScottK> mok0: Yes.  I've pushed all the new packages I did for Ubuntu into Debian and made friends that way.
[22:56] <ScottK> Also there are many people here who are good Debian contacts.
[22:57] <mok0> ScottK: OK? Who's that?
[22:57] <ScottK> There are several.  slangasek is one (his laugh wasnt' random).
[22:57] <ScottK> StevenK is a DD.
[22:57] <ScottK> As is pkern
[22:58] <mok0> ... I've met them here
[22:58] <ScottK> There are also people like POX_, man-di, and white who hang out here and help out from time to time even though they don't use Ubunt
[22:58] <ScottK> u
[22:58] <slangasek> ScottK: and azeem
[22:58]  * jdong cries
[22:58] <mok0> What about the utnubu team?
[22:58] <ScottK> Ah  right.
[22:59] <ScottK> It's not exceptionally active in my experience.
[22:59] <jdong> somerville32: have you been able to get the instructions for reconstituting the new upstream release working?
[22:59] <mok0> Hmm too bad...
[22:59]  * ScottK has just worked through Debian Mentors or an appropriate team to get stuff sponsored.
[22:59] <ScottK> It's no harder (and often easier) than getting stuff sponsored through REVU here.
[23:00] <mok0> I see. I will focus on getting experience in Ubuntu, though, for the time being
[23:02] <somerville32> jdong, Hmm?
[23:02] <slangasek> it seems to me that everything that the utnubu team to set out to accomplish is finished at this point; i.e., not eliminating the delta between Ubuntu and Debian, but providing the necessary pipeline for those changes to be as accessible as possible to the Debian maintainers
[23:02] <somerville32> jdong, Persia doesn't seem to have a problem
[23:02] <somerville32> jdong, I can send you a debdiff instead if you'd like
[23:02] <jdong> somerville32: meh I'm working around it currently, it's a fun ride :)
[23:02] <somerville32> :)
[23:03] <jdong> somerville32: http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/P/PA/PARDUS/File-BaseDir-0.03.tar.gz is the original from upstream right?
[23:03] <mok0> slangasek: But there will be more and more packages in Ubuntu that need to be ported
[23:03] <somerville32> jdong, correct
[23:03] <txwikinger> I have a question about dpatch
[23:03] <somerville32> txwikinger, shoot :)
[23:04] <txwikinger> how can I get the patch file?
[23:04] <txwikinger> I have created a patch file with diff -Nurp old new
[23:04] <txwikinger> but that doesn't worj
[23:04] <txwikinger> work
[23:04] <slangasek> mok0: right, well, the utnubu team can't realistically take sole responsibility for maintaining those packages in Debian anyway
[23:05] <somerville32> How does it not work?
[23:05] <txwikinger> well it says that the file old/.... does not work
[23:05] <slangasek> mok0: my subversive goal is to get the MOTU introducing these packages to become the Debian maintainers as well :)
[23:05] <mok0> slangasek: right, but they could assist UD's getting their stuff into Debian
[23:06] <mok0> slangasek:  Very good idea.
[23:08] <jdong> somerville32: whoo managed to get a .changes file out of it, test building and test reconstituting right now :D
[23:08] <somerville32> :D
[23:08] <ScottK> slangasek: For stuff I've gotten into Ubuntu, your subersive goal is met.
[23:08] <jdong> somerville32: yeah your package builds fine, idn what the other comment is about
[23:08] <LaserJock> slangasek: and DM certianly goes a long way as well
[23:09] <ScottK> Having the Python teams in Debian has helped a lot
[23:09] <somerville32> jdong, omg. Look at what he did to the package :P
[23:09] <mok0> txwikinger: make sure you restore the file you edited before making the patch
[23:09] <somerville32> jdong, Just ignore him
[23:09] <txwikinger> mok0: I did cp -a . /tmp/old
[23:09] <somerville32> jdong, "I initially tried to keep the existing cdbs setup, but that seems
[23:09] <txwikinger> mok0: I did cp -a . /tmp/new
[23:09] <somerville32> incompatible with Module::Build."
[23:09] <somerville32> jdong, I was able to keep CDBS :P
[23:09] <txwikinger> and then I only edited new
[23:10] <txwikinger> I think I miss something fundamental here
[23:10] <mok0> txwikinger: did you try "dpatch apply-all" ?
[23:10] <txwikinger> no
[23:10] <jdong> somerville32: ok, build-tested and .changes file has your name all over it....
[23:11] <jdong> somerville32: so I'm gonna press the dput button and hope nothing implodes ;-)
[23:11] <txwikinger> where and when do I do that?
[23:11] <somerville32> jdong, Thank you muchly! :)
[23:11] <mok0> txwikinger: from your top-level directory (the one that has debian/)
[23:11] <jdong> somerville32: my only question, is Closes lp: #foo a valid Ubuntu syntax?
[23:11] <txwikinger> in the normal source?
[23:11] <mok0> yes
[23:11] <jdong> I thought the use of the term Closes: was looked down upon because Debian parsed it?
[23:12] <txwikinger> before I edit anything?
[23:12] <LaserJock> no
[23:12] <LaserJock> jdong: it parses Closes: #
[23:12] <slangasek> jdong: it's the LP: #foo that's needed; putting 'closes' in front has no adverse effects on Debian
[23:12] <jdong> LaserJock: and we parse LP: #foo. Ok, that works :)
[23:12] <LaserJock> not Closes LP:
[23:12] <mok0> txwikinger: err, assuming you have your dpatches in debian/patches
[23:13] <txwikinger> yes they are there
[23:13] <mok0> txwikinger: then try it
[23:13] <jdong> so somerville32's "* Closes lp: #172244" would be parsed correctly?
[23:13] <txwikinger> but the ones that I created have all kinds of stuff on top of the diff
[23:13] <txwikinger> that I *not* created
[23:13] <LaserJock> jdong: I'm not positive about the case
[23:13] <mok0> txwikinger: what kind of stuff?
[23:13] <LaserJock> jdong: he'd just have to manually do it if it's not right ;-)
[23:13] <Kmos> jdong: don't think so.. only "LP: #123"
[23:14] <jdong> LaserJock: sounds easier than reconstructing another interdiff :P
[23:14]  * jdong rips hair out
[23:14] <somerville32> jdong, Did you upload?: ]
[23:14] <txwikinger> looks like bash script and ends with @dpatch@
[23:14] <jdong> somerville32: doing it now.
[23:14] <somerville32> Can someone post to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=453073 and tell them to use mine instead? :P
[23:14] <ubotu> Debian bug 453073 in libfile-basedir-perl "libfile-basedir-perl: New upstream version (0.03)" [Wishlist,Open]
[23:14] <mok0> txwikinger: Hmmm. A dpatch has 5-10 lines before the diff
[23:14] <jdong> Successfully uploaded packages.
[23:15] <jdong> somerville32: ^^ :)
[23:15] <txwikinger> mok0: No it is more
[23:15] <mok0> txwikinger: how did you make the patches?
[23:15] <txwikinger> with diff -Nurp old new
[23:16] <mok0> txwikinger: did you change a lot of stuff?
[23:17] <txwikinger> No only one line
[23:17] <txwikinger> I can redo it if that helps
[23:17] <mok0> txwikinger: just make a diff on that one file
[23:17] <txwikinger> from which folder?
[23:18] <somerville32> jdong,  difference between ectocytosis and endocytosis?
[23:18] <txwikinger> fromm the root?
[23:18] <mok0> above top level
[23:18] <txwikinger> where the .dsc file is?
[23:18] <mok0> yes
[23:18] <txwikinger> and where should I put the file that I edit (i.e. the new one?
[23:19] <mok0> You need a dpatch header in the file
[23:19] <mok0> dpatch patch-template
[23:19] <txwikinger> I think there is one in the debian/patches folder
[23:19] <jdong> somerville32: ectocytosis is the expulsion of vesicles while endocytosis is the taking in of substances
[23:20] <txwikinger> configure.in.dpatch
[23:20] <jdong> somerville32: ectocytosis is related to exocytosis, but in the latter the vesicles are formed as a part of the expulsion process while in the former they are preformed :)
[23:20] <jdong> somerville32: do I get a cookie?
[23:20] <mok0> txwikinger: ok
[23:20] <somerville32> !botsnack
[23:20] <ubotu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
[23:20] <mok0> txwikinger: go "dpatch patch-tempate" it will show you what the header looks like
[23:21] <somerville32> jdong,  Is it safe to upload zim now or should I wait for that to build?
[23:22] <txwikinger> mok0: yes that produces that right header
[23:22] <jdong> somerville32: should be safe to upload, the package will just sit in dependency wait.
[23:22] <jdong> somerville32: as long as you version the build-dep of course
[23:22] <somerville32> jdong, I have
[23:22] <mok0> txwikinger: you're almost there.
[23:22] <txwikinger> cool thanks :)
[23:22] <somerville32> jdong, But how do I test-build without the new  version in the archives?
[23:23] <jdong> somerville32: that is more difficult to do :)
[23:23] <mok0> txwikinger: dpatch apply-all, does it work?
[23:23] <jdong> somerville32: you can testbuild using a local pbuilder plus a local apt repo
[23:23] <txwikinger> mok0: yes
[23:23] <mok0> txwikinger: cool
[23:23] <somerville32> pfft.
[23:24] <jdong> somerville32: or abuse a PPA? :D
[23:24] <somerville32> I suppose, haha
[23:24] <jdong> somerville32: work out the infinite loops beforehand though *whistles innocently
[23:24] <txwikinger> but my patch is not in now.. I took it out
[23:24] <somerville32> jdong, What infinite loops? :P
[23:25] <jdong> somerville32: I kinda tied up an i386 PPA buildd for 48 hours... oopsies
[23:25] <somerville32> jdong, Oh, that upload was looping for me and I thought I really hadn't fixed it and you had uploaded it anyhow :P
[23:25] <mok0> txwikinger: took it out?
[23:26] <jdong> somerville32: btw I think my explanation of ecto/exo was reversed
[23:26] <jdong> -50pts for my bio exam :)
[23:26] <somerville32> jdong, endo is in :P
[23:26] <txwikinger> I just deleted the patch file since it didn't work
[23:26] <mok0> txwikinger: debuild will start by doing a dpatch deapply-all so it doesn't matter
[23:27] <jdong> somerville32: exo is prepackaged, ecto is the plasma membrane turns into the vesicle lining while being shoved out :)
[23:27] <txwikinger> ok
[23:27] <mok0> Itxwikinger: I thought you just made a patch??
[23:27] <somerville32> What is phagocytosis?
[23:27] <txwikinger> yes, but I did it with the method /tmp/old /tmp/new
[23:28] <txwikinger> so it did not have any dpatch header or anything
[23:28] <somerville32> exo is the opposite of endo, btw
[23:28] <mok0> txwikinger: For now, just create the dpatch header and edit it into the patch file
[23:28] <somerville32> nvm the phago question
[23:28] <jdong> somerville32: phagocytosis is endocytosis, but with a specifically formed vesicular lining around the injested body.
[23:28]  * somerville32 nods.
[23:29] <txwikinger> mok0: ok.. sorry if I ask this again
[23:29] <somerville32> jdong, And pinocytosis is eatting like liquid, right?
[23:29] <mok0> np
[23:29] <jdong> somerville32: yes
[23:29] <joejaxx> grrr hth do you page up on a macbook?
[23:29] <somerville32> and Receptor-mediated endocytosis is a more specific active event where the cytoplasm membrane folds inward to form coated pits. These inward budding vesicles bud to form cytoplasmic vesicles?
[23:29] <txwikinger> I have now the src with all patches applied
[23:29] <jdong> joejaxx: fn-up
[23:29] <txwikinger> how shall I now edit and diff the file I want to change?
[23:29] <jdong> somerville32: if you say so :)
[23:30] <jdong> somerville32: I only lurn what's on the test, so I have more time for this Ubuntu stuff ;-)
[23:30] <somerville32> :D
[23:30] <joejaxx> jdong: does not work
[23:30] <jdong> joejaxx: it !worksforme :-/
[23:30] <norsetto> night all
[23:30] <joejaxx> jdong: page up does not work for me in any oses other than leopard
[23:30] <jdong> joejaxx: that's really odd
[23:30] <mok0> txwikinger: I usually just copy the file i edit to file.orig, then I do a diff -uN file.orig file
[23:31] <txwikinger> in the original folder?
[23:31] <mok0> txwikinger: yeahh
[23:31] <txwikinger> ok
[23:32] <mok0> then I edit the patch file to include the dpatch header, and I add dummy directory names to the +++ file to make it a -p1 patch
[23:33] <mok0> then I make the 00list file in debian/patches
[23:33] <txwikinger> there are already other dpatches
[23:33] <mok0> ls *-dpatch > 00list
[23:33] <txwikinger> so there is already a 00list
[23:34] <mok0> txwikinger: you just want the names of all the patch files in there
[23:34] <ScottK> Did this turn into #ubuntu-biology while I was gone?
[23:35] <jdong> ScottK: it might be #ubuntu-chemistry soon
[23:35] <jdong> ScottK: and #ubuntu-diffeq on Thurs :)
[23:35]  * LaserRock runs
[23:35] <txwikinger> yes mok0: I think I understand the 00list file
[23:35] <mok0> txwikinger: good!
[23:35] <ScottK> Good thing I've been out of school long enough to have forgotten all about all those things.
[23:36] <mok0> :)
[23:36] <jdong> ScottK: oh how I envy you :)
[23:36] <txwikinger> mok0: So I do my diff file
[23:36] <txwikinger> add the header
[23:36] <somerville32> I love learning :)
[23:36] <txwikinger> put it in the folder
[23:36] <mok0> txwikinger: yup
[23:36] <txwikinger> add the name to the 00list
[23:36] <ScottK> jdong: But think of the decades of slogging through a career you have still ahead of you that I don't.
[23:36] <txwikinger> and that is it ?
[23:37] <ScottK> mok0: You might want to discuss dpatch-edit-patch as that's a pretty foolproof way to make a patch.
[23:37]  * somerville32 nods.
[23:37] <mok0> txwikinger: yes. It should work, but the patches need to be relative to the .dsc dir
[23:37] <txwikinger> ha ScottK doesn't know me
[23:37] <mok0> ScottK: That's next lesson :-)
[23:37] <txwikinger> I can break foolproof
[23:38] <txwikinger> right mok0
[23:38] <ScottK> mok0: OK.
[23:38] <ScottK> txwikinger: I understand that nothing is actually foolproof as they are too ingenious.  I've proven that myself on enough occasions.
[23:39] <mok0> This is like working remote, without seeing, hearing or feeling :-)
[23:39] <txwikinger> ScottK: :)
[23:39] <ScottK> mok0: Imagine if this was all point/click gui instead of CLI.  It'd be even more fun then.
[23:39] <txwikinger> ScottK: I always frustrate people because I break things in ways they never thought about it is possible :D
[23:39] <StevenK> Hum.
[23:40]  * StevenK reads his away log and says, "Oh, damn."
[23:40] <ScottK> txwikinger: Been there.  Done that.
[23:40] <mok0> ScottK: I can never remember what I did in a GUI. Which is what makes photoshop a real challenge
[23:40]  * ScottK figures StevenK is referring to #ubuntu-devel
[23:40] <StevenK> I am.
[23:42] <StevenK> Right, seb128 cleaned up my mess.
[23:50] <LaserRock> creepy, my advisor just asked me if I was gonna be around in Feburary
[23:50] <LaserRock> I guess that means I'm supposed to graduate sometime
[23:53] <txwikinger> mok0: Thanks the patch applies now :D
[23:53] <mok0> txwikinger:  Yay!
[23:54] <mok0> txwikinger: remember, it's better with many small patches, than one big one. Remember to document what the patches do in debian/changelog
[23:54] <txwikinger> yes mok0
[23:55] <txwikinger> I just try one of the MOTU butesizes
[23:55] <txwikinger> I liitle fix for the info stuff
[23:55] <mok0> txwikinger: good idea
[23:55] <txwikinger> I have already down a couple of simple packages from scratch
[23:55] <txwikinger> s/down/done/
[23:56] <mok0> txwikinger: without patches, I take it....
[23:56] <txwikinger> I think I didn't need them
[23:57] <mok0> txwikinger: once you get used to patches, they are actually pretty nice to work with. You keep the original sources pristine
[23:58] <txwikinger> I only had to create all the stuff for the debian folder
[23:58] <txwikinger> I didn't have to change anything in the original sources
[23:58] <txwikinger> I totally agree the method with the patches is great
[23:58] <mok0> txwikinger: did you upload the packages?
[23:59] <txwikinger> on revu yes
[23:59] <mok0> txwikinger: wait till you learn about the dpatch-edit-patch command, it'll blow you away... :-)
[23:59] <txwikinger> oh .. I did one for main and uploaded the debdiff on the bug
[23:59] <txwikinger> :D