[00:29] <ubotu> Ashfire908 called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[01:16] <LjL> hm the bot in #gentoo seems to ban some exploit attempts automatically
[01:16] <Bourne> Hello requesting a cloak, https://launchpad.net/~j.bourne
[01:16] <Seeker`> LjL: what sort of exploits?
[01:17] <PriceChild> LjL, wasn't that a normal person?
[01:17] <LjL> PriceChild, no. well, the normal person banned hoperator (but that was a NOTICE, which the bot probably doesn't parts), but the bot banned... another clueless guy who asked what that command would do :)
[01:17] <LjL> Seeker`: /server mail specifically
[01:18] <nalioth> that guy caught the k-train
[01:18] <LjL> i know
[01:18] <PriceChild> Seeker`, wait rej is a bot?
[01:18] <LjL> err no
[01:18] <LjL> mzbot is a bot
[01:19] <PriceChild> ahhh missed that one :D
[01:22] <nalioth> Bourne: please type /msg nickserv set master Bourne 
[01:22] <Bourne>  /msg nickserv set master Bourne
[01:23]  * Bourne done
[01:24]  * ST47 stares at +l 1190
[01:24] <PriceChild> ST47, what's up?
[01:24]  * ST47 ponders idly the use of such a high limit
[01:24] <LjL> sigh
[01:24] <PriceChild> ST47, the bot is in testing... that's what it'll be setting in #ubuntu some time soon perhaps
[01:25] <ST47> ah :)
[01:25] <tonyyarusso> ST47: nah, we're just really popular on weekends
[01:25] <ST47> ;)
[01:35] <Dave2> If someone tries to flood with 1141 bots, they will be thwarted!
[01:38] <tonyyarusso> that would be seriously impressive
[01:40] <Seeker`> i think they would probably deserve to flood the channel if they had that many bots :P
[01:42] <somerville32> "Botnet, I choose you!"
[01:43] <Seeker`> pffft, Pikachu wins!
[01:49] <FloodBot1> Synced to #ubuntu, 1185 users present
[01:56] <LjL> debugcount
[01:56] <FloodBot3> 1182 users in #ubuntu - limit at 1191
[02:01] <somerville32> debugcount
[02:01] <FloodBot3> 1176 users in #ubuntu - limit at 1191
[02:01] <somerville32> :]
[02:05] <FloodBot3> !ops | Mass join
[02:05] <FloodBot3> WARNING: Channel CTCP on #ubuntu (ACTIO)
[02:05] <ubotu> kahrytan called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[02:06] <somerville32> That was colourful
[02:07] <Pici> LjL: <3 floodbot
[02:08] <LjL> ACTIO?
[02:08] <PriceChild> * BaD_CrC has quit (K-lined)
[02:08] <PriceChild> * BaD-Laptop has quit (K-lined)
[02:08] <LjL> was there actually a CTCP ACTIO, or was that the bot acting up?
[02:08] <LjL> yeah weren't those legitimate?
[02:08] <PriceChild> seen those for some time... was that intentional?
[02:08] <LjL> seen them around
[02:08] <Pici> Hes a 'usual' in offtopic
[02:09] <LjL> !staff | the above two nicknames might have been k-lined mistakenly
[02:09] <ubotu> the above two nicknames might have been k-lined mistakenly: Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2 or Christel,  I could use a bit of your time :)
[02:09] <nalioth> LjL: are you sure?
[02:09] <PriceChild> LjL, I don't see any ctcp
[02:10] <LjL> nalioth: i'm sure they were k-lined, and i'm also pretty sure they weren't part of the botswarm. they were in other channels too (#debian for instance), and they've been around for some time. then if there were other reasons to k-line them, i don't know them
[02:10] <nalioth> LjL: unklined
[02:15] <Seeker`> I didn't get any messages about a CTCP ACTIO
[02:15] <LjL> perhaps clients interpret it as an ACTION anyway
[02:15] <LjL> in which case my bots are ok
[02:15] <Pici> I think thats what it was trying to say
[02:15] <LjL> but perhaps my bots stripped the last characters for some reason
[02:15] <LjL> in which case that would be a Very Bad Thing (tm)
[02:16] <Seeker`> but aren't actions usually sent to the whole channel?
[02:16] <LjL> yup
[02:16] <nalioth> Seeker`: not always
[02:16] <LjL> well if you're in a query, you send them in the query
[02:16] <LjL> but it's the only kind of CTCP that's normally tolerated in channels
[02:17] <Seeker`> why did the bot detect that one then?
[02:17] <LjL> hmm anyway, i think it was the bots. and i think it happened because their read buffer overruns when there's too much stuff coming... which might also explain the mis-count yesterday after the splits
[02:17] <LjL> somerville32, /me *is* the command that causes a CTCP ACTION
[02:18] <LjL> Seeker`: because there were a lot of CTCP ACTIONs sent to the whole channel. the bot is programmed to ignore them. only, it detected a CTCP "ACTIO"
[02:18] <LjL> which it is not programmed to ignore, but which never really happened
[02:18] <Seeker`> hmm
[02:19] <Seeker`> I bet once the bots are in use properly, there wont be any mass joins for ages :P
[02:20] <LjL> Seeker`, they'll !ops | mass join anyway when the limit is hit
[02:21] <Pici> Plus I'm betting that the bots have some sort of throttling that causes them to retry a join if that happens
[02:22] <LjL> nope, they don't. legitimate users being left out should just not happen
[02:22] <LjL> if it happens (at least more than once a week) the parameters should just be re-tuned
[02:23] <Seeker`> LjL: I think Pici meant the spam bots
[02:23] <Pici> I did.
[02:24] <LjL> Pici, Seeker`: ah well, in that case they'll still fail, when there's more than 10 or so of them already in
[02:24] <Pici> oh, and while we're talking about modes, can we keep +z in #ubuntu? I think someone keeps removing it.
[02:25] <LjL> Pici, +z is "bad" because, when +R is set, people who aren't registered cannot realize that they aren't being heard
[02:25] <Pici> hm
[02:25]  * PriceChild smiles at <l00st>
[02:26] <tonyyarusso> LjL: aren't we usually paying attention and telling them then anyway?
[02:26] <Pici> LjL: its also bad when we're trying to mute for paste floods and not knowing when they're over
[02:26] <LjL> tonyyarusso, err... you /whois everyone who speaks and check whether or not they're registered?
[02:26] <LjL> Pici, i just kick, and i think that's better. still, you can set it when doing that...
[02:27] <Pici> I'll just keep note of it.
[02:27] <Seeker`> sleep time
[02:27] <Seeker`> night
[02:27] <Pici> night
[02:28] <tonyyarusso> LjL: point
[02:28] <PriceChild> LjL, #ubuntu is yours
[02:29] <LjL> if i left +r set for two more minutes i'd insult the idiots in -unregged.
[02:30] <Pici> Did that person who joins -unregged before we get bot attacks show up?
[02:30] <PriceChild> LjL, I wouldn't -r until nalioth says its cool and quietenned down.
[02:30] <LjL> uhm nope
[02:31] <LjL> well i'm not seeing k-lines in the other big channels i'm in
[03:02] <FloodBot1> Synced to #ubuntu, 1173 users present
[03:02] <FloodBot1> EXCEPTION: Line without linefeed ()
[03:07] <FloodBot1> Synced to #ubuntu, 1170 users present
[03:11] <FloodBot1> Synced to #ubuntu, 1170 users present
[03:17] <mneptok> LjL: *please* do something to reduce the channel mode spam in here?
[03:18] <mneptok> please?
[03:18] <nalioth> mneptok: /ignore the bots
[03:18] <nalioth> mneptok: we'll let you know when they quit crying wolf
[03:18] <nalioth> so you can unignore them
[03:20] <mneptok> the ChanServ and LjL mode changes will still be seen. is there a reason this pre-deployment testing is happening on a channel we actually use?
[03:20] <LjL> mneptok, like stop fixing bugs in them?
[03:20] <LjL> mneptok, so that everybody can spot problems.
[03:20] <jdong> can't this be tested in #ubuntu-bots?
[03:20] <mneptok> LjL: like get them off public channels until you're reasonably certain the bug count is low?
[03:21] <LjL> mneptok, how can i be reasonably certain the bug count is low if the only guy trying to spot bugs is the programmer i.e. myself?
[03:21] <mneptok> LjL: ask people to help rather than recruiting help through forced spamminess?
[03:22] <LjL> debugquit
[03:22] <FloodBot1> Exiting due to debug command
[03:23] <mneptok> it's a great idea, and i think they'll be very useful. and it rocks you're dealing with it. but at this point 75% of this channel's traffic the past week has been bet mode changes.
[03:23] <mneptok> *bot
[03:23] <somerville32> It isn't like this is a high traffic channel, mneptok  :P
[03:23] <LjL> mneptok: not to mention that the "!ops | mass join" in here actually helped me, and i guess others, react quickly to the attack earlier.
[03:23] <jdong> somerville32: yeah because everything said here tends to be important and needs to be read by all ops
[03:24] <jdong> meh I'm pretty neutral on this
[03:24] <LjL> said != mode change
[03:24]  * Hobbsee would just use ignores
[03:24] <jdong> slightly bothered by a modechange every 5 minutes
[03:24] <LjL> anyway, please join #ubuntu-ops-monitor if you want to help and/or receive warning messages from the bot. nalioth, please either restart your bot in that channel or wait a minute for new code (you should, there's plenty of changes)
[03:26] <mneptok> i think /ignore-ing bots is a bit more risky than having to /join a special channel to interact with them. they *are* useful, so an /ignore is something i'd do lightly
[03:26] <mneptok> NOT do
[03:26] <mneptok> bah.
[03:26] <LjL> they're muted in #ubuntu anyway, so they'd hardly do anything in there
[03:27]  * mneptok goes to write his "Murray Cumming Is A Bigger Ass Than Is Jeff Waugh, But I Am A Bigger Ass Than Murray Cumming So There" blag post
[03:40]  * ajmitch looks at the topic & wonders if he counts as an idler
[03:42] <LjL> reserve the right != do it always
[03:48] <jdong> ajmitch: nah it's more of a problem for trolls who will lurk in here to gather info to call out ops in realtime
[03:50]  * ajmitch de-trolls
[03:50] <LjL> like that pesky jdong troll
[03:50] <ajmitch> I only tend to troll in special places
[03:50] <jdong> :)
[03:50] <jdong> what's up with GNOME recently?
[03:50] <ajmitch> nothing new in GNOME
[03:51] <no0tic> lol, so what about me? :)
[03:51] <jdong> no0tic: can we help you?
[03:53] <no0tic> uhm...<ironic> why did you nazi operators have banned me out of #ubuntu?!!</ironic> :)
[03:54] <ajmitch> did you deserve it? :)
[03:54] <jdong> no0tic: one moment please, let me check the ban tracker.
[03:54] <no0tic> let me check my logs, you ba***rd
[03:54] <no0tic> :D
[03:55] <no0tic> ok, I stop here
[03:55] <jdong> no0tic: I noticed you said envision, which is almost like envy. This is unacceptable. Come back in 40 years and ask again please.
[03:55] <jdong> lol that's enough parody for one night ;-)
[03:55] <jdong> if Pricey were here I'd add a few britishisms.
[03:55]  * ajmitch looks for a banhammer
[03:55]  * jdong cowers
[03:57] <no0tic> jdong, I think I would not understand them :)
[03:57] <mneptok> jdong: re: GNOME. the murrayc vs jdub bit?
[03:59] <jdong> mneptok: yeah I've been noticing a bit of clamoring in that dept
[03:59] <ajmitch> some leakage onto planet ubuntu
[04:00] <ajmitch> mneptok: you should get them all together for a group hug
[04:00] <mneptok> from GIMPnet:
[04:00] <mneptok> 16:46 <@mneptok> hooboy - http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2007/11/26/gnome-board-2007-candidates-the-bad/
[04:00] <mneptok> 16:46 <@mneptok> remain in your isolation cocoons until the green smoke is released.
[04:00]  * ajmitch nods
[04:01] <mneptok> you know that "i'm going to not make eye contact, and back up *veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery* slowly" reaction a LOT of people have with me? i'm hawing that feeling now.
[04:01] <mneptok> *having
[04:02] <jdong> mneptok: is that your public or private life?
[04:02] <mneptok> at the same time, i'm not leaving visual range of the intersection until i'm sure there's not going to be a pile-up.
[04:02] <mneptok> jdong: my privates are pubic.
[04:02] <jdong> :)
[04:03]  * jdong tries to figure out if that is a typo or pun
[04:03]  * mneptok woggles an eyebrow
[04:03] <mneptok> and in case you think i'm some sort of aberration, i got this from my sister tonight:
[04:03] <mneptok> Emma will be dancing in the Nutcracker this weekend, so we've been looking at, talking about and singing tunes about nutcrackers.
[04:03] <ajmitch> you, an aberration? never!
[04:03] <mneptok> Tonight at bedtime, I turned off the light and told the story of the ballet to her by soft night light - subbing in names of those she knows... sorta'...  The little girl was "Clemma" - her brother was, "Davitz" - Uncle Drosselmeyer became Uncle Kurtlemeyer, the prince became the Dince (Daddy-prince - since he's been dancing with Emma).
[04:04] <mneptok> Going through the story, I got to the part where the Nutcracker and soldiers battle the mouse king and mice...
[04:04] <mneptok> Me (quite voice, hint of mystery/awe):  "And the Nutcracker and all his soldiers won the battle.  And because he was so brave and defeated the mouse king, the Nutcracker turned into a real prince."
[04:04] <mneptok> Emma:  "Did they slice the skin off the mice?"
[04:04] <mneptok> (Emma is my 4yo niece)
[04:04] <mneptok> yes. four.
[04:04] <jdong> :D
[04:04] <mneptok> she takes after Uncle Kurt, it seems. :)
[04:04] <ajmitch> you've corrupted the child
[04:05] <somerville32> Kurt is such a nice name :]
[04:05] <mneptok> corrupted, or liberated?
[04:05] <somerville32> I'm going to name my child Kurt.
[04:06] <ajmitch> that poor child
[04:32]  * Hobbsee pokes mneptok with the crazy-stick.
[04:34]  * nalioth watches the crazy-stick go from 'crazy' to 'BSI'
[04:38] <Hobbsee> bsi?
[04:38] <Hobbsee> oh, batshit insane, i presume.
[04:38] <Hobbsee> maybe i should use that on my customers.
[04:40] <jdong> "Sir please try the BSI line"
[05:09] <somerville32> Who was that person that I used to talk to here that was from #gaygeeks?
[05:09] <jdong> is #gaygeeks quite literally what the channel name describes?
[05:09] <tonyyarusso> somerville32: GazzaK/Gary ?
[05:10] <somerville32> jdong, Yea.
[05:10] <somerville32> Didn't mneptok hang out there too?
[05:10] <somerville32> Maybe it was Garry
[05:12] <jdong> somerville32: probably Gary
[05:13] <jdong> are there a lot of gaygeeks? :)
[05:13] <somerville32> I would imagine, lol
[05:13] <jdong> :)
[05:13] <somerville32> A number of them hang out at #gaygeeks
[05:14] <jdong> do you have to be gay to lurk? :)
[05:14] <somerville32> I don't think so
[05:15] <stdin> you do to lurk in -ask tho
[05:15] <stdin> *-asl
[05:15] <stdin> not ask :p
[05:15] <somerville32> lol
[05:15]  * jdong goes pop into #gaygeeks
[05:17] <somerville32> I wish Scott would idle in there so I'd feel better about trying to hit on him :/
[05:17] <somerville32> lol
[05:20] <tonyyarusso> odd....
[05:20] <tonyyarusso> why can't I find the package linux-kernel-devel with apt?
[05:20] <jdong> tonyyarusso: linux-headers-generic?
[05:20] <jdong> :)
[05:20] <jdong> l-k-d is a debianism
[05:20] <stdin> !info linux-kernel-devel
[05:20] <ubotu> linux-kernel-devel: Linux kernel hacking dependencies. In component main, is optional. Version 2.6.22-14.46 (gutsy), package size 45 kB, installed size 72 kB
[05:21] <tonyyarusso> jdong: It's listed on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile?highlight=%28kernel%29 and http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/devel/linux-kernel-devel
[05:21] <jdong> oh it's build-essential for kernels
[05:21] <jdong> got it
[05:21] <jdong> forgot about that
[05:22] <tonyyarusso> seems it's missing in my mirror
[10:05] <ubotu> gordonjcp called the ops in #ubuntu (a-arschi)
[13:03] <Pici> PriceChild: why -z?
[13:04] <PriceChild> because it gets very confusing in bot attacks when we do +rR
[13:04] <PriceChild> Hey Bourne.
[13:04]  * Bourne Hello PriceChild.
[13:08] <Hobbsee> oh, is *that* why the -z's never seem to be in the channels?
[13:08] <PriceChild> Hobbsee, whatcha mean?
[13:08] <PriceChild> are you secretly +z'ing during the day then me fighting back in the night?
[13:08] <Hobbsee> well, i keep having to turn them on when i want to use them
[13:08] <Hobbsee> nah
[13:08]  * Pici too
[13:08] <Hobbsee> not usually
[13:09] <PriceChild> hehe
[13:09] <PriceChild> ah for when you mute a troll?
[13:09] <Hobbsee> yes
[13:09] <Pici> yes
[13:09] <Pici> Perhaps I'll just make it part of my mute/unmute script
[13:09] <Pici> or just kick them.
[13:10] <PriceChild> I remember several months ago +m'ing a random reasonably active channel... then getting completely confused when people kept talking. :P
[13:13] <Pici> You +m'ed a random channel??
[13:14] <Gary> how random?
[13:14] <Gary> :-D
[13:14] <PriceChild> by random I mean something probably not to do with ubuntu, can't remember
[13:14]  * jussi01 has visions of #ubuntu +m'ed...
[13:14] <PriceChild> I've had to +m #ubuntu before.
[13:15] <PriceChild> and it was all -z'd and nice :)
[13:43] <Sharpie> uh, why am i here?
[13:44] <PriceChild> Take a wild stab in the dark.
[13:44] <Sharpie> lol, it was the nigger wasn't it?
[13:45] <PriceChild> lol?
[13:45] <Sharpie> ok, can u unban me? :{
[13:45] <Sharpie> i'll be a good boy =[
[13:45] <PriceChild> !guidelines | Sharpie 
[13:45] <ubotu> Sharpie: The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[13:45] <PriceChild> Please go and read them.
[13:46] <Sharpie> PriceChild: yeah i know, read them, it was a random act of thoughtless malfeasance =[
[13:46] <PriceChild> Sharpie, go read them again.
[13:46] <Sharpie> PriceChild: won't do it again =[
[13:46] <PriceChild> !coc
[13:46] <ubotu> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
[13:46] <PriceChild> Read that too.
[13:46] <Sharpie> wtf
[13:46] <Sharpie> is this #library? :|
[13:47] <PriceChild> !wtf
[13:47] <ubotu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
[13:47] <PriceChild> No, this is Ubuntu.
[13:47] <Sharpie> are you serious?
[13:47] <PriceChild> Linux for Human Beings.
[13:47] <Sharpie> wtf can be "what the fruit"
[13:47] <Sharpie> or "what the fudge"
[13:47] <PriceChild> And along with that tag line, we try and back it up, lowering barriers to entry and attempting to make it open to all.
[13:48] <PriceChild> But it wasn't.
[13:48] <PriceChild> it was what the fuck!
[13:48] <Sharpie> yes it was.
[13:48] <Sharpie> wait, what?!
[13:48] <Sharpie> you just passed the rules worse than i did >_>
[13:49] <Sharpie> ok, Price, i'm sorry, can i go back? :{
[13:49] <PriceChild> no you can't
[13:49] <Sharpie> why not?
[13:49] <PriceChild> Because I don't think you've changed one bit.
[13:49] <Sharpie> people don't change.
[13:50] <PriceChild> sucks to be you then I guess.
[13:50] <Sharpie> come on >_<
[13:50] <PriceChild> No you come on.
[13:50] <Sharpie> i will if you unban me
[13:50] <PriceChild> I'm not bargaining here.
[13:51] <Sharpie> ok, what do I need to do to get unbanned?
[13:51] <PriceChild> I've already suggested you go and read those pages. That's a start, to realise what is acceptable in ubuntu channels.
[13:52] <Sharpie> i've read them
[13:52] <PriceChild> For some reason I really don't believe you.
[13:52] <Sharpie> quiz me.
[13:53] <PriceChild> Those pages are quite long... go and read them instead of looking at them.
[13:53] <Sharpie> but i already read them
[13:54] <PriceChild> Then please come back in 72 hours.
[13:54] <Sharpie> comon you gotta be kidding >_<
[13:54] <Sharpie> 72 hours is like...more than 71.5 hours
[13:58] <Sharpie> PriceChild: "After staying in #ubuntu for a while, ops tend to get a bit trigger-happy. Don't forget that accidents happen and forget that accidents happen. Please don't put too severe punishments on accidental mishaps."
[13:58] <Sharpie> seems like the case
[13:58] <PriceChild> Ahh you decided to go read it :)
[13:58] <Sharpie> i read it
[13:59] <Sharpie> then i went to the mod guidelines >_>
[13:59] <PriceChild> sneaky
[13:59] <Sharpie> i've already finished reading when you sent me when i told you i did
[14:00] <Sharpie> -anyway-, /unban is a rly 1337 function =[
[14:01] <Hobbsee> depends what you alias it to
[14:02]  * jussi01 hi fives Hobbsee!
[14:02] <Sharpie> Hobbsee, would you consider the word "nigger" to be offensive when said without a target?
[14:02] <Hobbsee> hey jussi01!
[14:02] <Hobbsee> Sharpie: i'm fairly certain if you said that in some locations in my country, it would get you beaten up, so, yes.
[14:02] <jussi01> hiya Hobbsee :D Nice to see you again :)
[14:03] <Sharpie> nono, but it wasn't said to anyone
[14:03] <Sharpie> it was just like....thrown in the air
[14:03] <mc44> it's still offensive
[14:03] <Hobbsee> then it tneds to refer to everyone, no?
[14:03] <Sharpie> no it doesn't
[14:03] <mc44> if you can't see the problem wi
[14:04] <mc44> th saying it, then don't expect to be unbanned
[14:04] <Sharpie> ok, but speaking generally here, if i were a black guy, saying nigger would be completely appropriate. right?
[14:04] <mc44> No
[14:04] <Sharpie> have you ever listened to a rap song? 
[14:04] <PriceChild> God I hate rap
[14:04] <mc44> The #ubuntu channels are not a rap song
[14:04] <Sharpie> me too
[14:04] <PriceChild> and no it doesn't make it any different depending on your ethnicity
[14:05] <Sharpie> i listen to death metal
[14:05] <Sharpie> but regardless...=\
[14:07] <Sharpie> ok, then i was disciminated for having Tourette's syndrome
[14:07] <mc44> the thing about tourettes is it doesn't involve involuntarily typing out things
[14:08] <Sharpie> i have textual tourette's syndrome.
[14:08] <Sharpie> and i have to live with the shame every day, and still get banned from irc channels
[14:08] <Sharpie> oh the suffering
[14:08] <mc44> come back with a doctors not
[14:08] <mc44> *note
[14:08] <Sharpie> tempt not a desperate man!
[14:08] <PriceChild> I thought this was -offtopic for a second...
[14:09] <PriceChild> Sharpie, 72 hours, I'll then unban you if your attitude has changed and you agree to abide by the channel guidelines.
[14:09] <Sharpie> but i already have
[14:10] <Sharpie> comon, lindsey lohan was in jail for far less for uh..was it drugs or alcohol, i can't recall
[14:21] <Pici> PriceChild: Thanks for taking on these issues, I'm really distracted by work today.
[14:22] <Pici> Also, are we forwarding to here for quit messages now? 
[14:23] <PriceChild> erm.... up to you
[14:24] <Pici> Okay. :)
[14:28] <PriceChild> Anything else we can help you with Sharpie?
[14:29] <Sharpie> stop acting like a cock (and when i say cock, i mean a male chicken, not a male genital)
[14:30] <Sharpie> pointing to arrogance o=
[14:30] <PriceChild> I hope I didn't offend him by removing him... :/
[14:30] <vorian> ?
[14:30] <vorian> he called you a cock
[14:31]  * Pici wonders when that became an insult like that.
[14:32] <PriceChild> hmm?
[15:12] <jdong> PriceChild: stop acting like a male chicken man.....
[15:15] <PriceChild> I'm sorry.
[15:16] <Hobbsee> jdong: what are your thoughts on backporting poppler?
[15:19] <PriceChild> Hehe popplers as in the crunchy food from futurama?
[15:19] <jdong> Hobbsee: is it ABI/API compatible?
[15:19] <jdong> PriceChild: no I think it's some sort of male chicken too....
[15:21] <Hobbsee> jdong: with what's currently in the archive?
[15:21] <jdong> Hobbsee: right
[15:22] <Hobbsee> uh, no
[15:24] <Hobbsee> it's needed for kde4
[15:43] <jdong> Hobbsee: would the backport not break evince and whatever else uses it in Gutsy without a recompile?
[15:43] <Hobbsee> jdong: eparse.  double negative.
[15:43] <Hobbsee> jdong: i think youd' have to rebuild it all
[15:44] <jdong> Hobbsee: that's what I thought.... it is a messy and also slightly risky backport
[15:44] <jdong> Hobbsee: in that poppler's had a history of needing security patches
[15:44] <jdong> and I'm not sure how easy dealing with those would be in the future should something bad happen
[15:44] <Hobbsee> speak to stdin 
[15:51] <ubotu> In ubotu, soren said: foo is bar
[15:55] <stdin> jdong: evince works fine with the new poppler (had to install it to test)
[18:38]  * jussio1 is trying to get used to irssi...
[18:40] <jdong> jussio1: it's well worth it IMO :)
[18:40] <Pici> I have trouble using gui clients now
[18:40] <Pici> I like my slash commands
[18:40] <Pici> and alt-#keys
[18:41] <jussio1> yeah, im liking that. 
[18:41] <jussio1> how does it work wit double figures though?
[18:41] <jdong> it's also not bound to a GUI
[18:41] <jdong> jussio1: qwerty should be somewhat bound
[18:41] <jdong> jussio1: and /win commands are your friends too
[18:41] <Pici> jdong: alt-q through alt-p  (on qwerty)
[18:41] <Seeker`> jdong: Mine goes to "q, w, e..." after 0
[18:42] <Pici> I dont usually have more than 15 windows open
[18:42] <jussio1> :D ahh, i see...
[18:42] <jussio1> hmmm, and there is no nicklist?
[18:42] <crdlb> alt+a is also helpful :)
[18:42] <jdong> jussio1: /names?
[18:43]  * jussio1 was a konversation user.. 
[18:43] <crdlb> you can also do stuff like /names -ops
[18:43] <jdong> ctrl+n/p go next/previous too
[18:43] <Pici> and alt-left alt-right, but that is bugged in gnome-terminal
[18:43] <Pici> works fine in putty on windows though
[18:44] <jussio1> jdong: /names could e interesting in #ubuntu ...
[18:44] <jdong> jussio1: it's not terribly bad
[18:44]  * jussio1 is on konsole
[18:44] <jdong> a bit nasty to your scrollback, but not as bad as /who ;-)
[18:44] <Pici> /names -ops 
[18:45] <jdong> who let the ops out?
[18:45] <jdong> ;-)
[18:45] <nalioth> i only use /names -count
[18:45] <Pici> I have the count on my irssi status bar
[18:45] <jdong> nalioth: is there a way to swap alt and ctrl keys in irssi?
[18:46] <nalioth> jdong: you can keymap anything you like
[18:46] <Pici> http://nullcortex.com/upload/desktop/091807.png  (although I fixed the missing symbols)
[18:46] <jussio1> hmmm... so what benefit is screen to me? there is an option in konsole's menu for a new screen session... Im using that now. but why?
[18:47] <jdong> nalioth: I'm interested in remapping all the alt-N to ctrl-N, wouldnt' keymapping be very tedious?
[18:47] <jdong> jussio1: screen allows you to reattach to your irssi over any terminal, any ssh session, etc
[18:47] <nalioth> jussio1: with screen, you can log out (or suffer xorg failure) and still have a functioning irssi client (or whatever console app is running in screen)
[18:47] <nalioth> and that, too (logging into your irssi from across town is cool)
[18:47] <jussio1> aha
[18:47] <Pici> jdong: probably not check out /bind
[18:48] <Pici> 75% of the time I'm sshed through screen into irssi
[18:52] <jussio1> hmmm, is there a way to get it to display chnnel names as well as the numbers?
[18:53] <crdlb> yeah there's a script
[18:55] <crdlb> http://f0rked.com/articles/irssi
[18:55] <crdlb> see the bit about awl
[18:58] <effie_jayx> !IRC
[18:58] <ubotu> A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist - See also !Guidelines
[18:58] <jussio1> beautiful!
[18:58] <effie_jayx> !Guideline
[18:58] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about guideline - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[18:58] <effie_jayx> !Guidelines
[18:58] <ubotu> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[18:59] <jussio1> hmmm, anyone remember the mac install factoid? i coudnt find it with !search ... :(
[18:59] <jussio1> crdlb: thats a great guide. thanks a million
[19:00] <nalioth> mac install?
[19:00] <jussio1> nalioth: yeah, how to install on a macintosh - there is one with a link to the  wiki...iirc
[19:03] <crdlb> jussio1: yw :)
[19:03] <nalioth> jussio1: ah. i can help you if you need the help
[19:04] <jussio1> nalioth: no, im fine, but thank you. there is just one guy asking in #ubuntustudio and I was trying to find the guide/factoid.
[19:05] <nalioth> i seem to remember it from long ago
[19:06] <stdin> jussio1: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/PowerPC ?
[19:06] <stdin> got that from the page linked to in !install
[19:07] <jussio1> stdin: hmmm, yeah, but this is for an intel mac. 
[19:07] <jussio1> stdin: i think that is in !ppc
[19:07] <jussio1> !ppc
[19:07] <ubotu> PowerPC.  Formerly used by Apple for the Macintosh line of computers. Variants are now used in popular gaming consoles. PPC was a fully supported Ubuntu architecture up to and including edgy. It is now a community port, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ
[19:08] <nalioth> jussio1: intel mac install is the same as any x86 (providing you know how to play with boot camp)
[19:09] <jussio1> nalioth: really?? I thought there was some special stuff... well thats cool then. (hugs nalioth )
[19:09] <Gary> not on my mbp is isn't :'(
[19:11] <stdin> there's a guide for the mbp too
[19:12] <stdin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MacBookPro
[21:03] <pete83> Hi, any ops in town?
[21:04] <somerville32> Maybe.
[21:04] <nalioth> pete83: nope, we're all on vacation
[21:04] <pete83> ok, well, I am in a rather tense argument in #ubuntu right now
[21:04] <ikonia> pete83: no-one is arguging, just asking you to stop using WTF
[21:04] <ikonia> you are arguing saying you won't
[21:04] <pete83> they are telling me that I violated the Code of Conduct by saying "WTF" as an expression of surprise
[21:05] <pete83> no, I am arguing saying that it was no code violation
[21:05] <ikonia> pete83: people are asking you to not use bad language
[21:05] <ikonia> thats it
[21:05] <ikonia> nothing more
[21:05] <pete83> ikonia, you told me to ask the ops. Stop interupting now
[21:05] <ikonia> pete83 please don't use phrases like WTF
[21:05] <ikonia> that was the exact message
[21:05] <ikonia> no problem
[21:06] <pete83> ikonia, why did you tell me to come to #ubuntu-ops if you are just going to bicker with me here the same as over there? I want a real Op's opinion
[21:06] <ikonia> yes, no problem
[21:06] <TheSheep> pete83: ikonia is right and discussing this on #ubuntu is offtopic too
[21:07] <pete83> is it a violation, or is it not? that is all i care about. I think the way I used it, it was not disrespectful
[21:07] <Tm_T> pete83: it is
[21:07] <pete83> how?
[21:07] <Tm_T> it's unpolite
[21:07] <pete83> all it meant was "Wow!"
[21:07] <Tm_T> rude
[21:07] <Tm_T> pete83: then say wow
[21:07] <pete83> Tm_T: what's the diff?
[21:07] <somerville32> WTF stands for "What the fuck"
[21:07]  * TheSheep rolls eyes
[21:07] <Tm_T> pete83: What The FUCK
[21:08] <pete83> Tm_T: but it is not referring to a real sexual act.... it's an expression
[21:08] <Tm_T> pete83: it's still rude
[21:08] <somerville32> People say fuck all the time without referring to a real sexual act
[21:08] <somerville32> It doesn't make it any more socially acceptable
[21:08] <pete83> somerville32: my point exactly
[21:08] <Tm_T> yup
[21:08] <ikonia> pete83: well I guess now your happy, you've found out it is a breach and you can stop using it
[21:08] <pete83> somerville32: and yes, among those people it obviously IS socially acceptable
[21:09] <pete83> yeah thanks a lot guys
[21:09] <TheSheep> pete83: it's a swear word, it doesn't matter what it refers to
[21:09] <somerville32> pete83, Well, our point is that it is NOT acceptable here. ok?
[21:09] <somerville32> :)
[21:09] <ikonia> gratzi
[21:09] <Tm_T> pete83: it is not acceptable in ubuntu channels
[21:09] <pete83> OK, I get it. You should write it into the Code of Conduct, however, because as it is, you are just making up the "no swearing" rule on your own, but i'll respect it
[21:10] <Tm_T> pete83: it's part of "respecting others"
[21:10] <nalioth> pete83: 'no swearing' is no swearing
[21:10] <pete83> no, because words do not inherently inply a lack of respect, it is their intent and meaning that imply that
[21:10] <ompaul> pete83, the CoC requests respect for others - in some of the the company I keep it would not be socially acceptable
[21:10] <nalioth> a non-swear for you is a swear for others
[21:11] <pete83> socially acceptable!=disrespectful
[21:11] <ompaul> pete83, ehh care to do that again
[21:11] <ompaul> !socially acceptable = disrespectful
[21:11] <pete83> eh, you know what i meant
[21:11] <pete83> Canadian?
[21:11] <ompaul> anyway game over 
[21:11] <somerville32> Ok, what ever, thanks for the understanding pete83 :)
[21:12] <somerville32> pete83, We just try to keep #ubuntu appropriate for all age groups so we try to keep stuff like "wtf" out of there.
[21:12] <somerville32> pete83, Plus it creates a warmer environment! :)(
[21:12] <pete83> ok, all I'm saying is that why can't somebody put that in the CoC
[21:12]  * mjr notes as a dissenting opinion of one who isn't listened to anyway that indeed disrespectful is not the same as not socially acceptable, and adds that pushing one's nose into other people's wordings is disrespectful particularly when said wordings are not
[21:13] <LjL> (PM from kick in -offtopic)
[21:13] <LjL> [22:12:00] <thepumpkin_w> hi, what did you do that?
[21:13] <LjL> [22:12:51] <LjL> perhaps you mean "why"? because... well, because since when did we stop kicking people who gratuitously give terribly dangerous commands as bad taste jokes? answers, we never did
[21:13] <somerville32> pete83, Because the CoC isn't a set of rules. Just a code of conduct.
[21:13] <somerville32> pete83, Plus there is also an IRC code of conduct type thing that might go into more details - try checking that.
[21:14] <pete83> somerville32: from the CoC "and this code of conduct lays down the "ground rules" for our cooperation..."
[21:15] <jussio1> !guidelines
[21:15] <ubotu> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[21:15] <somerville32> pete83, :) Maybe you should take this up with the Community council then. Nothing we can do. It is just a accepted norm that swearing is not within the Ubuntu spirit :)
[21:15] <Tm_T> yup
[21:16] <ompaul> LjL, I would concur with that
[21:17] <nalioth> somerville32: you going up two steps?
[21:17] <Tm_T> ?
[21:17] <Seeker`> Tm_T: Isn't there somewhere between this and the CC?
[21:17] <nalioth> somerville32: have you forgotten about the Ubuntu Irc Council?
[21:18] <Tm_T> true
[21:18] <somerville32> nalioth, I'm just saying that if has a problem with the CoC he should take it up with the people who maintain the document. Not suggesting he escalate this incident for review with the CoC.
[21:19] <nalioth> somerville32: escalation goes to the next level (otherwise, we should all email Mr. Shuttleworth for our problem solving)
[21:19] <pete83> nalioth: I think I will phone him
[21:19] <Tm_T> him?
[21:20] <TheSheep> maybe there should be a 'simple guide to Coc, aka common sense for users'? ;)
[21:20] <Tm_T> haha
[21:20] <pete83> Tm_T: do you know something about Shuttleworth that I don't?
[21:20] <Tm_T> pete83: don't even ask...
[21:20] <pete83> lol
[21:20] <somerville32> nalioth, I wasn't suggesting he complain to the CC about this incident but instead that if he wishes to make a change to it that he speak with them.
[21:20] <Tm_T> anyway, to me this discussion is just big sillyness
[21:21] <mjr> somerville32, besides, clearly you can read the CoC more or less fussily and with a predisposition of interfering with people's communication
[21:21] <somerville32> I guess my point was is that the IRC team/Council doesn't maintain the CC and that complaining in here about it isn't going to change it
[21:22] <mjr> the IRC team's interpretations form channel policy
[21:22] <somerville32> And we've already told pete83 how it is interpreted :]
[21:23] <somerville32> Anyhows
[21:23] <pete83> somerville32: are you the IRC council?
[21:23] <somerville32> pete83, No sir.
[21:24] <mjr> somerville32, since you aren't, clearly the next logical escalation point would be to appeal to the council to re-examine its meddlesome interpretations
[21:24] <mjr> mind you, not suggesting it either
[21:24] <mjr> since I don't think it'd work :]
[21:24] <LjL> pete83, the IRC council has laid down *guidelines* that explain how they implement the CoC on these channels. just read them. have fun.
[21:25] <jussio1> pete83: did you read the IRC guidelines I posted? they address this quite clearly! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[21:25] <pete83> ahh, it is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines  ...under the section "Language and subject"...
[21:25] <LjL> mjr, somerville's point was in response to "why doesn't the CoC mention this and that" (and the obvious answer is, it doesn't because it's not in its scope). but if one think that the CoC *should* mention this and that, then that's not the IRC council's business.
[21:26] <ompaul> mjr, that would be interfering with their right to formulate within the bounds granted to them by the CC what goes or not as the case may be, strange catch22 like situation given that the CC had a huge hand in the Guidelines being approved as such and that the making of an IRC team conditional on such guidelines being in place
[21:28] <mjr> But of course. And I do think there's an apparent need for the CoC to mention that its enforcers should also respect people and their (sub)cultures, including the typical formulation of communication thereof when it's not aggressively pointed toward anyone. Since otherwise the enforcers seem to forget that. But what the hey, it wouldn't be a popular addition.
[21:28] <somerville32> mjr, Right, we're not arguing that
[21:28] <pete83> Hi Iconia, What The FeistyFawn are you up to these days?
[21:28] <somerville32> mjr, I simply told pete83 who he should talk to him if he wishes to modify the CoC
[21:29] <mjr> yes, and I said the problem is not as much CoC as the meddlesome readings of it.
[21:29] <pete83> somerville32: it's ok, it was in the IRCGuideLines.... it just wasn't evident right away that that is where I should be looking
[21:29] <mjr> though obviously the CoC could overrule those as well, if the council wanted to
[21:30] <somerville32> Ok, thanks for your input mjr :)
[21:30] <somerville32> pete83, np :)
[21:31] <TheSheep> gosh, it still continues :)
[21:31] <pete83> somerville32: maybe a direct link to the IRCGuideLines in the topic would be more immediately useful than the IRCResourcePage (how many people reading the topic of the channel still need to find an IRC client, for example?) 
[21:32] <somerville32> pete83, Thats a good idea to bring up with LjL 
[21:32] <somerville32> pete83, LjL manages #ubuntu
[21:33] <ubotu> stdin called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[21:33] <ubotu> bruenig called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[21:36] <LjL> pete83, the irc resources page *is* useful, because it lists many useful things such as for example all the official Ubuntu channels
[21:36] <LjL> *and* it includes a link to the guidelines
[21:37] <LjL> which is why the direct link to the guidelines was removed from the topic to begin with
[21:39] <LjL> multiverse, let me check why you were banned
[21:39] <multiverse> Hello, can someone help me with a ban
[21:39] <Tm_T> meh
[21:39] <multiverse> I was banned by astro76 because I was promoting the use of Automatix2
[21:40] <Tm_T> heh
[21:40] <stdin> you wern't banned by astro76
[21:40] <multiverse> The IP Address I was coming from is not the IP Address that I am currently coming from.
[21:40] <Seeker`> LjL is psychic!
[21:40] <multiverse> He was the person who reported to !ops
[21:41] <stdin> you were banned 1) promoting unsupported software and 2) abusing the ops trigger
[21:41] <ompaul> !automatix2
[21:41] <ubotu> automatix is not recommended, supported or needed. See http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html and « /msg ubotu WorksForMe »
[21:41] <stdin> and bot abuse..
[21:41] <ompaul> you should read that url multiverse 
[21:41] <multiverse> I did.
[21:41] <multiverse> That's why I'm back trying to make amends.
[21:41] <multiverse> I was only trying to help.
[21:42] <multiverse> I didn't realize everyone was so Draconian.
[21:42] <ompaul> who owns the ban?
[21:42] <ompaul> it is not draconian
[21:43] <pete83> ompaul: it sounds rather draconian
[21:43] <ompaul> it is more like preventing windows level stability occurring to users machines
[21:43] <LjL> multiverse, i've checked the logs, and you're quite clearly a troll. bye
[21:43] <multiverse> ompaul:  your last comment is fair.
[21:43] <multiverse> I don't mean to troll
[21:43] <multiverse> I promise to cut back on that type of advice.
[21:44] <multiverse> I'm new to irc, and it felt like I was being tolled.
[21:44] <ompaul> s/cut back/cut out
[21:44] <multiverse> trolled
[21:44] <LjL> multiverse, nevermind the advice.
[21:44] <LjL> don't joke with me.
[21:44] <multiverse> Sorry?
[21:44] <LjL> 2007-11-24T08:38:34 <multiverse> http://www.getautomatix.com/
[21:44] <LjL> 2007-11-24T08:38:51 <multiverse> http://www.getautomatix.com/
[21:44] <LjL> 2007-11-24T08:39:09 <multiverse> Automatix2 has Ubuntu's blessing.
[21:44] <LjL> you. are. a. troll. bye.
[21:44] <pete83> haha lol
[21:45] <multiverse> That's how I understood their web page.
[21:45] <multiverse> Now that I know how the ops feel about it, I'll refrain from those posts.
[21:45] <stdin> "2007-11-24T08:33:20 <multiverse> Windows roxors" ?
[21:45] <multiverse> tee hee
[21:46] <LjL> yeah sure
[21:46] <somerville32> lol
[21:46] <ompaul> multiverse, care to put down the shovel and walk away
[21:46] <LjL> for your convenience, here's the logs from some minutes before the ban, with "multiverse" grepped
[21:46] <LjL> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/46043/
[21:46] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[21:46] <pete83> multiverse: on the Automatix site, on the left side, it has a list of the TWO distros that endorse it (Uberyl and UCE)
[21:46] <multiverse> thanks pete
[21:46] <LjL> please, as i said, don't joke with us and waste our time, and go troll #defocus or something.
[21:46] <ompaul> LjL, you did not mean that
[21:47] <LjL> ompaul: i don't "do" mean, i "am" mean
[21:48] <pete83> How long do bans last?
[21:49] <pete83> even if they are justified?
[21:49] <multiverse> I'm not going to spend my time kissing ass.  I'm here for a real apology, and I know you guys don't often get that.  I want to help, and now that I understand how the culture works you'll see that I can live up to this promise:  I won't troll.
[21:49] <LjL> pete83, no set time
[21:49] <stdin> pete83: as long as the ops see fit
[21:49] <LjL> multiverse, well no, we get logs of sincere, real apologies.
[21:49] <ompaul> pete83, there are some that have lasted over a year
[21:49] <LjL> except their are neither sincere nor real
[21:49] <pete83> The ban length sounds like something that should be set and standardized
[21:49] <stdin> pete83: depends on the circumstances and the person involved
[21:49] <ompaul> pete83, depends on who/what etc 
[21:49] <LjL> pete83: that suggestion sounds like something that would scare me
[21:50] <pete83> well, there has to be some hope of.. rehabilitation
[21:50]  * ikonia fills his pants
[21:50] <LjL> pete83, not for professional trolls.
[21:50] <ompaul> pete83, and there are some who do it as much as others add to the kernel
[21:50] <ompaul> or code desktops
[21:50] <pete83> hmm, but isn't that like the death penalty, IRC version
[21:51] <multiverse> You can see I'm not a professional troll.  Visit my website, where I have to deal with the same crap you do.  It was my misunderstanding.  www.multiverse.org
[21:51] <LjL> pete83: like life imprisonment if anything, though i don't think any comparison like that makes much sense.
[21:51] <multiverse> To all ops:  please accept my sincere apology.
[21:51] <PriceChild> pete83, as a personal rule, I lift bans when I believe the users' attitude has changed, and that they won't be breaking the guidelines of the channel again.
[21:52] <ompaul> pete83, if you let them in they show no remorse - I have seen one guy do a full turn about - but I have seen a couple who no matter how much you ask them they behave in a channel disrupting fashion 
[21:52] <pete83> PriceChild: how can you decide that they've changed when they aren't allowed in to talk?
[21:52] <LjL> To multiverse: we don't.
[21:52] <somerville32> : (
[21:52] <LjL> now, please come back in a month or so for your ban to be reviewed.
[21:52] <multiverse> Do you speak for all the ops LjL?
[21:52] <ompaul> multiverse, he can 
[21:52] <PriceChild> pete83, by talking with them during their appeal here or in pm.
[21:52] <pete83> ompaul: if you give them a 30day ban, then you only have to deal with it once every 30 days, even for the worst offenders
[21:53] <somerville32> multiverse, You can still hang out in the other channels though
[21:53] <ompaul> pete83, and for some that would be too much
[21:53] <ikonia> pete83: hang around and see how many bans you get in a day
[21:53] <multiverse> I'm only interested in the #ubuntu channel, at least for now.
[21:53] <pete83> ompaul: ok what about 30 days first time, 60 seconds time, etc, etc.
[21:53] <LjL> multiverse: i speak for myself, other ops have had a chance to express their opinion as well, actually, we've been talking for 15 minutes already.
[21:53] <pete83> ompaul: errr. 60 DAYS
[21:53] <ikonia> pete83 seems to work well as it is where it is down to the banners disgretion
[21:54] <ikonia> pete83: you can mostly tell a users intent, wouldn't you agree ?
[21:54] <ompaul> pete83, na - been there done that
[21:54] <ompaul> pete83, there are three in total who will *never* be allowed back in 
[21:54] <multiverse> Do you guys treat Automatix Windows trolls differently than abusive profane users?
[21:54] <pete83> ikonia: some times.... but still, I like to be forgiving.
[21:54] <ompaul> pete83, not without a gpg signed email saying they will behave where the key has a path of trust
[21:54] <multiverse> Why punish a difference in culture with a rational person rather than some vomit mouth?
[21:54]  * ikonia is bored of multiverse 
[21:55] <PriceChild> multiverse, we don't differentiate between different types of trolls.
[21:55] <stdin> Automatix Windows trolls are different than abusive profane users??
[21:55] <PriceChild> !guidelines
[21:55] <ubotu> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[21:55] <multiverse> PriceChild:  so, put to death the traffic violator and the murderer?
[21:55]  * ikonia yawns
[21:55] <ompaul> multiverse, this is not life - nor is it death
[21:56] <multiverse> This is life.
[21:56] <pete83> multiverse, do you have some stake in automatix? (i.e. contributed code or anything?)
[21:56] <multiverse> Nope.
[21:56] <multiverse> I used it to good effect.
[21:56] <PriceChild> pete83, have you been banned from somewhere to?
[21:56] <multiverse> But you know what?
[21:56] <ompaul> !worksforme | multiverse 
[21:56] <ubotu> multiverse: Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
[21:56] <multiverse> I should have offered my advice offline.
[21:56] <pete83> PriceChild: not for many years
[21:56] <PriceChild> pete83, can we help you?
[21:56] <LjL> multiverse, i request that you leave for the time being
[21:57] <pete83> PriceChild: ouch you really don't like me do you?
[21:57] <LjL> ompaul requests louder though
[21:57] <ikonia> ha ha a
[21:57] <PriceChild> pete83, I'm just wondering how you happenned about this channel.
[21:57] <ikonia> thank you, he was becoming tedious
[21:57] <ompaul> LjL, you had asked more than once
[21:57] <stdin> pete83: "The IRC council reserves the right to remove idlers from the channel" < from the topic ;)
[21:58] <pete83> stdin: luckily I haven't shut up yet
[21:58] <PriceChild> All I've seen so far is the questioning of our current practices... which isn't necessarily a bad thing of course.
[21:58] <stdin> PriceChild: pete83 came in here to resolve a dispute from #ubuntu about the use of "wtf" in there
[21:59] <Tm_T> yup
[21:59] <Tm_T> I think that is done
[21:59] <PriceChild> Thankyou stdin.
[21:59] <pete83> yes, and you are proving my original point by using that phrase in your comment stdin, since you know it is not offensive the way you are using it
[22:00] <ikonia> sheesh, this again
[22:00]  * jussio1 sighs
[22:00] <LjL> pete83, this is #ubuntu-ops for starters, not #ubuntu
[22:00] <ompaul> pete83, Oi! I think you lost that debate already
[22:00] <stdin> pete83: this isn't exactly an open channel...
[22:00] <PriceChild> stdin, oh its open... just occasionally selective.
[22:00] <ompaul> in fact it is not a debate
[22:00] <LjL> "family friendly" applies to #ubuntu (although we try to be family friendly everywhere i guess, but this is still a very special-purpose channel)
[22:00] <stdin> I meant it's doesn't have >1000 different users 
[22:01]  * ompaul goes to look at some code
[22:01]  * jussio1 wonders if you can get coloured nicks in irssi...
[22:01] <stdin> pete83: and my use of it in here to describe why you are here would not excuse you or me using it in #ubuntu or an other ubuntu related channel
[22:01] <LjL> pete83, one thing is things being "offensive", another thing is things being not "polite", "family friendly" or what you prefer to call it. both things are not acceptable in #ubuntu.
[22:01] <ompaul> jussi01, you need irssi for that :)
[22:01]  * ompaul runs
[22:02]  * jussio1 slaps ompaul 
[22:02] <Tm_T> jussio1: that's not family friendly
[22:02] <jussio1> ompaul: I have irssi - not the double nicks
[22:02]  * jussio1 tickles Tm_T  :P
[22:02] <jussio1> s/not/note
[22:02] <ompaul> jussi01, talk with nalioth he knows some script for irssi - I don't use that 
[22:02] <Tm_T> jussio1: and that definately ISNT!
[22:03]  * ompaul is a lot more gnomish than that
[22:03] <nalioth> irssi.org/scripts
[22:03] <PriceChild> jussio1, pretty sure there's one on irssi.org's script page
[22:03] <pete83> why would you want to remove idlers from this channel anyways?
[22:03]  * jussio1 goes to look
[22:03] <PriceChild> What he said.
[22:03] <Tm_T> pete83: why not?
[22:03] <ikonia> ask "super-sonic-sega" he is the script master....apparantly
[22:03] <PriceChild> pete83, because this channel can contain time sensitive information when we attempt to take action against botnets for example.
[22:03] <pete83> Tm_T: I mean, they are allowed in the main channel.. why not this one?
[22:04] <pete83> PriceChild: ah ok
[22:04]  * ompaul kills a process
[22:04] <PriceChild> pete83, another reason being trolls frequently like to come in here.. create endless discussion and debate, put us against each other and question everything wasting our time and patience.
[22:04] <ompaul> PriceChild, NO THEY DON'T (chuckle)
[22:04] <pete83> PriceChild: ok, good bye. Thanks for your patience
[22:04] <LjL> PriceChild: well, as for putting us against each other, that's just because we're stupid.
[22:05] <LjL> oh wait i just trolled
[22:05] <ompaul> LjL, you can't talk to PriceChild like that ....
[22:05] <ikonia> ompaul: Tm_T said they did, are you calling him a liar ?
[22:05] <ompaul> :P
[22:05] <Tm_T> LjL: can I be against you? (very closely that is)
[22:05] <PriceChild> ikonia, oh yes he can
[22:05] <PriceChild> whoops, ompaul ^
[22:05] <ompaul> ohh ohhh
[22:05] <ikonia> PriceChild: he's behind you
[22:05] <ikonia> ;)

[22:05] <PriceChild> Ohhhh no he isn't!
[22:05]  * Tm_T hides
[22:05] <ompaul> ikonia, great call
[22:05] <LjL> Tm_T: oh, uhm, it's warm enough right now, perhaps when it goes below 19C
[22:05] <PriceChild> I'm going to see "Sinbad the Sailor" at the panto in a week or so I think...
[22:06] <ompaul> PriceChild, rather you than me
[22:06] <ikonia> PriceChild perhaps you should keep that gem to yourself
[22:06] <PriceChild> haha :D
[22:06] <ompaul> okay peeps I have to hit the airport in 35 mins
[22:06] <ompaul> cheers
[22:06] <ompaul> back later (maybe)
[22:09] <jdong> wireshark for someone with active net traffic, then clone their MAC and IP
[22:09] <jdong> I mean... err.... have fun at the airport!
[22:15] <Amaranth> hehehe
[22:17] <jussio1> !test
[22:17] <ubotu> Failed.
[22:18] <jussio1> bed time... 
[22:19] <LjL> jdong: for even just suggesting that, i will... i will... uhm, trick you into disconnecting from IRC with some psuedo-exploit that really only works on mIRC, possibly.
[22:20] <LjL> hi dean, bye dean
[22:20] <LjL> nice hostname you've got dean
[22:20] <ikonia> merlin the happy pig ?
[22:20] <ikonia> or merlin the magician
[22:20] <LjL> i'm sure he's a magician
[22:20] <ikonia> shame, I like the happy pig
[22:20] <PriceChild> not in any other -s channels :/
[22:21] <LjL> uh
[22:21] <LjL> isn't this weird?
[22:21] <LjL> ns info dean
[22:21] <PriceChild> He's just hidden things?
[22:22] <LjL> PriceChild, in that case the nick would show up as private, i think. also, the dean who joined here isn't identified
[22:22] <PriceChild> oh wait it doesn't even give online or last seen status. :/
[22:22] <LjL> perhaps it's just that after 3 years, ns has forgot the last seen address and quit message and stuff... dunno
[22:23] <LjL> yeah that's what i found strange
[22:31] <jdong> LjL: haha what's a pseudo-exploit on mIRC? getting someone to parrot you, then saying /part?
[22:31] <jdong> :D
[22:32] <LjL> jdong: well that's an universal one
[22:32] <LjL> jdong: the one i had in mind was /disco
[22:32] <somerville32> What does that do?
[22:32] <jdong> :) I've heard its success rate is higher than I would expect
[22:32] <Seeker`> I need a really good geeky quote for the back of a tshirt
[22:32] <LjL> somerville32: give you easter-egg disco music of course.
[22:32] <somerville32> :D
[22:32] <somerville32> Does it work in Xchat? :P
[22:32] <LjL> not sure :)
[22:33] <LjL> jdong: then there's yesterday's one, /server mail
[22:33] <LjL> though that's also not mIRC-specific
[22:33] <jdong> what does that do?
[22:33] <Seeker`> jdong: tries to connect to a server "mail"
[22:33] <LjL> jdong, err do i have to tell you?
[22:33] <Seeker`> which disconnects you from this server
[22:33] <nalioth> jdong: c'mon dude
[22:33] <jdong> lol I'm an IRC idiot remember? :)
[22:34] <LjL> Seeker`: well, on my konversation it wouldn't - it would just open a new connection - but on other clients, yeah
[22:34] <Seeker`> mIRC is silly though :)
[22:34] <Seeker`> I cant remember if /j #20,000 works on irssi, and I dont care to find out atm
[22:34] <somerville32> What do it do?
[22:34] <somerville32> *does
[22:34] <LjL> it joins #2000 on konversation :)
[22:34] <Seeker`> the syntax for /j is /j <chan>,<chan>
[22:35] <Seeker`> so it trys to join channels #20 and 000
[22:35] <somerville32> Whats the problem with that?
[22:35] <Seeker`> but trying to join 000 on some clients makes you part all channels
[22:36]  * somerville32 tries.
[22:36] <Seeker`> it does work on mIRC, or it did last time I tried
[22:36] <jdong> ROFL ROFL  it worked
[22:36] <LjL> seems so
[22:36] <nalioth> it should work on all clients
[22:37] <jdong> channel 000 automatically disconnects?
[22:37] <LjL> nalioth, on mine /join #20,00 joins #2000, and /join 0 joins #0
[22:37] <PriceChild> jdong, one 0 works
[22:37] <LjL> which exists
[22:37] <LjL> although it shouldn't
[22:37] <LjL> cody-somerville_: congratulations
[22:38] <Seeker`> nalioth: doesn't seem to work in irssi
[22:38] <stdin> yep, saw you in #000 :p
[22:40] <LjL> which reminds me
[22:40] <somerville32> lol
[22:40] <somerville32> 000 not #000, eh?
[22:40] <LjL> !test | LjL called the ops in #ubuntu-,000
[22:40] <ubotu> LjL called the ops in #ubuntu-,000: Failed.
[22:40] <LjL> you still have that disabled huh :(
[22:40] <jdong> LjL: nice ;-)
[22:41] <somerville32> hmm?
[22:41] <LjL> jdong knows :)
[22:42] <jdong> somerville32: LjL's just trying to exploit my auto-join-on-ops script
[22:42] <somerville32> oh, haha
[22:42] <jdong> somerville32: not as bad as Se.veas who tried to join me to #horseporn
[22:42]  * somerville32 goes to visit.
[22:42] <mc44> jdong: you don't need to . his name when he isn't here :P
[22:43] <jdong> mc44: how do I know he isn't here :P
[22:43] <Jack_Sparrow> Pardon the intrusion..  what is the official position on supporting the program aircrack in channel?  
[22:43] <mc44> true, he might be behind the curtains
[22:45] <nalioth> Jack_Sparrow: we don't condone illegal activities, however they're presented
[22:45] <Jack_Sparrow> Just wanted to check..  a guy in channel insisted that because it was in the repo we support or tollerate it
[22:47] <LjL> uhm
[22:47] <LjL> we definitely support all sorts of programs
[22:47] <LjL> just don't ask "how to crack a network"
[22:47] <LjL> ask specific questions about a program, without mentioning illegal activities you're going to use it for
[22:48] <Jack_Sparrow> Fine line if we have it in the repo
[22:48] <LjL> any program can be used for perfectly fine purposes
[22:48] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow, there's no fine line, we have john in the repos for that matter, is it supported? yes of course it is
[22:48] <Jack_Sparrow> even the description in synaptic says it can be used to attack a system
[22:48] <LjL> just don't ask "how do i crack my colleague's password?"
[22:48] <LjL> ask something sane about john, and you're fine
[22:49] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow: yes, that's what security testing tools do.
[22:49] <PriceChild> LjL, dude so close with the ops thing ;)
[22:49] <Jack_Sparrow> np, agreed, they can be used for good or evil
[22:49] <Jack_Sparrow> thanks and sorry for the intrusion
[22:49] <LjL> Jack_Sparrow: and since we aren't mindreaders, we go based on what the folks tell us
[22:49] <PriceChild> Jack_Sparrow, when someone asks me how to rip music from a .bin iso they have... I tell them to stop pirating, and to buy the music legally.
[22:50] <LjL> if they state they're going to do something illegal, we ask them to take it somewhere else or abstain from it altogether
[22:50] <somerville32> PriceChild, What if it is legit? :P
[22:50] <LjL> if they ask a legitimate question about a program, they're fine
[22:50] <PriceChild> somerville32, then they have the original cd and all is easier
[22:50] <somerville32> PriceChild, Backups are legal
[22:50] <PriceChild> In my mind its the same kind of idea.
[22:50] <PriceChild> somerville32, surprisingly that wasn't the excuse.
[22:50] <LjL> PriceChild: they might use it as a backup though. unlikely, agreed, and you're perfectly free to abstain from helping them, but as long as they don't say "i want to pirate a cd"...
[22:51] <somerville32> Thats like saying: "I'm not going to help you install Ubuntu because only hackers install Ubuntu" :P
[22:51] <stdin> many hackers work for canonical
[22:51] <stdin> they hang out in #ubuntu-devel
[22:51] <stdin> nice people too
[22:52] <somerville32> stdin, your point? :S
[22:52] <stdin> it's "hacker != cracker"
[22:52] <stdin> pet hate :p
[22:52] <somerville32> Hence the quotes :P
[22:53] <stdin> and that's my quote response to anything with "hacker" (meant as cracker) as a question
[22:54]  * somerville32 yawns and continues.
[22:55] <Jack_Sparrow> would it be appropiate to simple send them to the aircrack channel?
[22:56] <ubotu> In ubotu, kitche said: !beryl is Beryl has been merged with Compiz-Extras to form Compiz-Fusion.  New Beryl installs are discouraged. See also !compiz
[23:06] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, santor said: ubotu: what is it that women want?
[23:06] <somerville32> ...
[23:08] <mneptok> "more ammo"
[23:09] <LjL> mneptok, a tranquilizer?
[23:09] <LjL> (not an answer to what women want)
[23:10] <PriceChild> the keys to the emp cannon?
[23:10] <mneptok> LjL: yes, please! :)
[23:11]  * LjL charges at 2000V
[23:18] <LjL> mneptok: he *is* a troll. he's been asked like 10 times what he's trying to install, and never answered, including now, where at the very direct questions he went with "nevermind".
[23:18] <LjL> if he doesn't quit with his own feet, he's on his way out as soon as he says something even so slightly compromising
[23:18] <somerville32> lmao
[23:21] <Seeker`> LjL has an itchy trigger finger :P
[23:22] <ikonia> LjL: loving you more each day
[23:23] <LjL> i shouldn't give such shows in #ubuntu really, i should have banforwarded to here (or just banned since he deserved it)
[23:24] <LjL> ikonia: now see something sneaky
[23:24] <ikonia> LjL: ?
[23:25] <LjL> ikonia: #ubuntu :)
[23:25] <ikonia> ok