/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/11/27/#ubuntu-server.txt

=== paul____ is now known as pschulz01
kgoetzif i blow away 70-persistent-net.rules will it be recreatd next boot?03:35
pteagueanybody have any hardware suggestions for an ubuntu desktop?03:38
kgoetzwhat sort of suggestions03:38
ScottKpteague: Intel video for FOSS video support unless you're a gamer.03:40
kgoetzScottK: if your after *F*oss you'll need intel anyway :)03:40
pteagueintel video?  i was thinking nvidia for xvmc03:40
pteaguei'm starting a new job on monday & they're wondering what i want as a workstation... i'm pretty much handling all their web stuff - db, webserver, site, etc03:42
kgoetzso you *dont* want broadcom network devices :)03:42
kgoetzyou can either go with nvidia and known support, or gamble on AMD getting ATI open sooner rather then later for video03:43
pteaguewas thinking amd cpu & nvidia video03:43
kgoetzamd is ok. not been exactly cutting edge recently (on desktops), but solid  still03:44
kgoetzand less buggy then intels *grin*03:44
pteaguelibc6 works on amd... certain features are borken on intel03:45
kgoetzthats something worth remember for me i think03:49
pteaguei use chbg on occasion & discovered it wouldn't work on my laptop (intel)...  went back & reinstalled the first 6 disc i had & it worked so i locked the libc6 library... i updated my desktop (amd) & chbg worked... so i thought great! it's fixed.. unlocked on laptop, downloaded updates, & it's broken! hehe03:52
kgoetzi dont have tha ttool, what is it?03:54
pteaguescreensaver, desktop changer...  can use it as a slideshow as well03:55
kgoetzaaah.03:55
pteaguei realize there's a couple different xscreensaver things that do something similar, but it has a lot of options & the really nice thing about it is i can get it to just display all the images dead center03:57
orochi2i had a question about apache now that i have my ubuntu server setup (i didnt use the livecd, but the server cd) i was wondering if someone was available for a few questions05:43
kgoetz!tell orochi2 about ask05:46
orochi2lol ok good, someone's alive out there. I used to run a gentoo box as a LAMP, I like Ubuntu so far, but i want to do it right. What would be the best way of setting up my website. I find it a pain to deal with the files in /var/www as they are all root:root, what would be the best way to manage those files? Create a virtual host for my .com for the user i use, leave it as root and live with it what would be the best way to go abou05:48
kgoetzdepends. for personal space simply create public_html and put your files in thre05:50
kgoetzotherwise, look into vhosts (asking about this stuff in #apache would be a good idea too)05:50
orochi2ok05:51
orochi2should I leave my vhost as root:root or what would be the owner:group i should have the files be in?05:52
kgoetzideally yes, tehy would stay as root, but if you will edit the fils a lot, it might make sense to go with youruser:www-data05:53
orochi2ok ill look into that05:53
asisakWhat should I prefer nowadays if I want to run multiple (web) environments on a (Ubuntu) Linux box?08:06
asisakE.g., some plone portal(s), some wiki(s) and some other services (like DNS or e-mail)08:06
asisakXen might be an overkill, but I am not sure if VServer or something similar is a good idea...08:06
macdSeperating those services with a VM is a very good idea08:07
macdXen is pretty painless to setup on Gutsy now, plus you can just bootstrap a base ubuntu system, then install those services you need only08:08
asisakYou mean install the separate services in separate VMs?08:08
macdSure, why not08:14
macdits a very good way to minimize risk from a securty standpoint also08:14
asisakSure, but you have to upgrade each machine, and you run many kernels08:17
_oetHallo12:57
pvandewyngaerde_oet: english here12:58
_oetWoops, english channel offcourse :P12:58
_oetmy bad ;)12:58
krautmoin13:21
sommerkraut: hey13:23
krauthi sommer13:23
krautinteresting surname :)13:23
sommerkraut: thx13:23
sommerhad it all my life... heh13:24
=== joerlend_ is now known as XiXaQ
_oetI was wondering, whether the support for the current 7.10 server version is completely stopped in 2009 or that security updates will continue to be provided..13:35
firecrotch_oet: I'm pretty sure that means that there won't be any security updates after that13:40
_oetok, thanks for the info :)13:40
=== coNP is now known as coNP[uni]
firecrotch_oet:  8.04 will be an LTS release though, if I'm not mistaken13:41
_oetok13:42
_oeti'll keep that in mind13:42
MenZaIt will, firecrotch13:43
firecrotchthanks, MenZa13:43
firecrotch_oet: are you planning on using Ubuntu for a webserver or something of that nature?13:44
CyberMadi want to install gnome.. then i did apt-get install gnome..14:04
CyberMadnow, how to start my gnome?14:05
firecrotchCyberMad:  startx14:05
pvandewyngaerdedont you need  ubuntu-desktop ?14:05
sommerCyberMad: you might check out this forum thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-186298.html14:06
pvandewyngaerdeor  /etc/init.d/gdm start14:06
sommerit lists all the packages you'll need14:06
CyberMadok thanks a lot14:06
CyberMadso, what is the different between ubuntu-server dan ubuntu-desktop? only on the package?14:07
CyberMadlike ubuntu-desktop doesn't have samba package on cd, etc14:07
CyberMadis that correct?14:07
pvandewyngaerdeits the packages  for a GUI desktop , a server doesnt need one by default14:10
sommerCyberMad: yep different packages on the CD, different kernel, different installer14:10
CyberMadis this what you mean:14:10
CyberMadsudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop14:10
CyberMadsudo apt-get install gdm14:10
CyberMadsudo /etc/init.d/gdm start14:10
CyberMadsudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg14:10
CyberMadwell, i just want to run vmware-server on ubuntu-server14:11
CyberMadactually i don't have any idea about that14:11
CyberMadi want running windows xp on vmware-server14:12
CyberMadso everyone can remote that XP14:12
CyberMadbecause we don't XP on every computers14:12
CyberMadbut sometime we still need XP14:12
sommerCyberMad: you should be able to do that on Ubuntu Server14:14
CyberMadsommer without the GUI ?14:22
CyberMadsommer have you try the vmware-server ?14:22
sommerCyberMad: nope I haven't tried vmware myself in quite a while... I think it can though?14:23
sommerothers in this channel I know have14:23
CyberMad:)14:24
CyberMadwell ok, i will test it this week14:24
CyberMadthnks14:24
sommerCyberMad: here's a wiki page on vmware: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Server14:24
sommeryou could try that out and update the page if there's anything missing :)14:24
CyberMadthat's very cool... will help me much.. thanks14:24
sommernp14:24
_rubenjust curious .. are there any plans whatsoever to support PF_RING on ubuntu (server)? just found catapulta.org, which does incorporate PF_RING, but is still at beta state14:34
firecrotch_ruben: you ought to be able to enable it in Ubuntu14:37
firecrotch_ruben: I found a tutorial that works on Debian which would be a good starting point, at least14:37
firecrotchhttp://bjou.homeunix.net/blog/2006/12/advanced-packet-capturing-howto-pf_ring-napi-and-extended-libpcap-on-debian-sarge/14:37
_rubenfirecrotch: i know that url .. its a bit outdated since it mentions a cvs repo intead of svn .. and i expect PF_RING to integrate into ubuntu/debian kernels 'nicer' than our current SuSE kernels (old kernels with tons of security backports)14:39
_rubenbit curious though if there were any plans on actually offering support on it and providing the appropriate kernels/libpcap libs for it14:40
firecrotchAh, well, I'm definitely not the person to find out about that from14:41
=== Drazha[away] is now known as Drazha
nealmcbserver team meeting in 4 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting:15:56
nealmcbhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting15:56
sommernealmcb: I think they will... can always update it later :)15:59
sommerthe cert statement that is16:00
=== Drazha is now known as Drazha[away]
nxvl_workisn't today the meeting?16:05
sommernxvl_work: yep #ubuntu-meeting16:06
soren!mda16:25
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about mda - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi16:25
GargoyleCan anyone help me reconnect my split-brained drbd?16:41
GargoyleI have them both set to secondary/unknown, but can't get them to connect. Not bothered which is primary, only testing at the mo.16:42
ScottKnealmcb: It's probably worth mentionind that although Postfix is primarily an MTA, it can serve as an MSA and and MDA too.17:00
nealmcbahh - got it17:00
sorenMSA?17:02
ScottKMail Submission Agent.17:02
sorenWhich does what?17:02
* lamont tries to decide if he cares what the 'S' and 'D' stand for17:02
ScottKMUA -> MSA -> MTA -> MTA -> MDA -> MUA.17:02
nealmcbso postfix with a smarthost is an msa?17:03
nealmcbany other msas?17:03
ScottKI'd say yes, but there are probably protocol police that would disagree.17:03
nealmcb(anything with a smarthost....)17:03
lamontMSA means that it listens on the 'submission' port, for MUAs to talk to.17:03
nealmcbahh17:04
lamontMTA means it listens on the 'smtp' port17:04
* ScottK likes lamont's definitions17:04
lamontMDA means that it delivers to local/virtual/whatever mailboxes, from whence MUAs grab it17:04
lamontMUA means a user interacts with it directly17:04
lamontMUI == mail using idiot17:05
lamontaka, user17:05
sorenSo Postfix is an MSA because an MUA can poke stuff into its queue by way of /usr/sbin/sendmail ?17:05
lamontMUI -> MUA -> MSA -> MTA -> MTA -> MDA -> MUA -> MUI. :-)17:05
keescookso are pop/imap servers actually MDAs then?17:05
sorenNo.17:05
sorenDid my mail not reach the mailing list yet?17:05
lamontkeescook: they don't deliver to mailboxes. they provide access to them17:05
lamontsoren: MSA is, IMO, kinda stupid.17:06
lamontthe concept, that is.17:06
sorenlamont: Agreed.17:06
keescooksoren: no it did, and I thought the same you did -- I was just trying to figure out what to call the pop/imap piece17:06
lamontan MSA is an MTA that listens on the 'submission' port.17:06
sorenlamont: It's something that only marginally makes sense on a design diagram of postfix and *nowhere* else. :)17:06
keescookMSA makes sense for ISPs that want to block MTA traffic.  :P17:06
nealmcbI think the goal of the submission port is to help fight spam by separating submission from transfer at the port leel17:06
lamontwhich it, therefore, assumes is an MUA talking to it, not some random MTA, or spamware.17:06
keescooknealmcb: yup17:06
keescookso pop/imap is an Mailbox Access Agent?  (between the MDA and the MUA?)17:07
* keescook loves making stuff up17:07
lamontnealmcb: which does next to nothing for you when the spamware connects to the MSA17:07
* lamont ^5s keeskook.17:07
lamontwhat are we gonna make the rest of the letters??17:08
nealmcbmsa?  mui? :-)17:08
sorenffs...17:08
soren:p17:08
lamontnealmcb: I assume that MSA was someone elses.  MUI is all mine.17:08
lamontsoren: ffs is a very nice kernel routine, returning the first set bit in a word17:08
keescookmsa is real (as ScottK says: Mail Submissions Agent)17:08
lamontMAA... mail authentication agent?17:09
keescook(without the trailing s)17:09
* nealmcb nods17:09
lamontMBA: masters of business administration.17:09
sorenlamont: ffs == first f???? set?17:09
nealmcbmba mail bs agent?  aka spammer?17:09
lamontfind first set17:09
sorenlamont: of course.17:09
ScottKIIRC there's an Internet Draft somewhere that defines all these.17:09
* lamont was thinking mail breaking agent17:09
nealmcbsame thing17:09
ScottKAh, that would be Exchange.17:09
keescookah-ha, Mail Retrieval Agent17:10
dthackersorry, missed the meeting. when will transcripts be up?17:10
keescookhttp://wiki.mutt.org/?MailConcept17:10
lamontScottK: stop introducing facts into the discussion (internet draft)17:10
nealmcbtime we all moved to jabber and rss and left this mail morass to die a slow death :-)17:10
lamontMYA: mame your a**17:10
lamonthrm... IP-over-bullhorn.17:11
ScottKSpeaking of such, rfc2821bis is in IETF last call now.17:11
nealmcbkeescook: nice one17:13
lamontScottK: prior to being voted on, yes?17:14
ScottKlamont: Yes.17:14
ScottKSo this would be the time to look at it and kvetch.17:14
ScottKhttp://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-klensin-rfc2821bis-06.txt17:14
nealmcbScottK: thanks17:14
ScottKnealmcb: No trouble.17:15
lamontkeescook: I think they're onto us.17:16
keescooklamont: dangit17:17
nijabaTable create at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerPackageReview17:43
nijabaVolunteers should now run to put their names along the best packages ;)17:44
ivokshi18:13
ivoksScottK: you'll work on amavis?18:13
ivokslamont, ScottK ping?18:23
ScottKivoks: Yes.18:24
ScottKivoks: I think the package itself is in good shape.  I'd be curious if you have comments.18:25
ivoksdefaults are ok18:26
ivoksfrom my experience, i had problems only with systems with misconfigured /etc/hosts18:26
ivoksand that's quite often :/18:26
ivoksother than that, package is in great shape18:27
ivoksmaybe we could work on some rules for ubuntu18:27
ivoksi have a dream when amavis will become part of default mail server installation :)18:27
ScottKRight, well that'd be a big part of the point for moving it to main.18:28
ScottKI did make a change to make it easier to fix the config if you've got a /etc/hosts problem and don't know Perl syntax.18:28
ivoksgreat18:29
ivoksi'll work on drbd18:30
ivoksnad maybe we could push postgrey to main too?18:30
ivoksit had only one CVE entry, IIRC, in couple of years...18:31
ScottKivoks: I'm not convinced on postgrey.  I think Greylisting is useful now, but the benifit is only transient.  More and more spammers are retrying now, so it's value is dimishing. I don't see supporting it for 5 years.18:31
ivoksthey are retrying, with same ip18:31
ivoksthat's when other antispam tools kick in18:32
ivoksi use it and it does more than all other anti spam tools at the moment18:32
ivoksthere are installations where i use it for 2 years18:32
ivoks0 problems18:32
ivoksbut i understand your point18:33
ivoksanti-spam protection is very dynamic area...18:33
sommerivoks: speaking of anti-spam I've added a section on Mail Filtering to the server guide... I was wondering if I could send it to you for review?18:35
ScottKI think adding amavisd-new is a sensible, stable core to allow people to hang whatever they want off of it.18:35
ScottKivoks: Do you read postfix-users?18:35
sommerScottK: not that I don't value your input, but the more reviews the merrier18:36
ScottKsommer: Of course.18:36
ivokssommer: sure18:36
ivoksScottK: no... :)18:36
sommerivoks: cool, there's also an update to the Postfix SASL section using Dovecot.18:37
ScottKivoks: OK.  There was a funny bit today about an Ubuntu user writing in with a Postfix problem that turned out to be webmin adding 'sudo' to their smtpd_recipient_restrictions.18:37
ivoks:)18:37
ivoksi'll check archives :)18:38
ivokswebmin is evil.18:38
sommerivoks: I'll get that to you this evening, thanks again.18:38
ivokssommer: great18:38
ivoksi have to get rid of desktop related packages i maintain :)18:40
ivoksthey hunt me while i'm a sleep :)18:40
ScottKivoks: Don't sleep then.  Sleep is for the weak.18:40
ivoksyou can't imagine how little sleep i had last two weeks18:41
ivoksi'm working on a quite big project... it will go public in 20 days18:42
ScottKSounds fun.  I've done things like that.18:42
ivoksfun... hm, i don't think there's a good word for that :)18:44
ivokssee you later18:46
nealmcbsommer: can you send me the mail filtering section also?18:51
sommernealmcb: absoluteley19:02
nealmcbsommer - a section in the server guide on how server differs from desktop (kernel, no x11, etc) would be handy I bet.  those articles from http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netos/article.php/3710641 have more detail than we want, but touching on a few of them would make savvy users feel more comfortable19:30
sommernealmcb: good idea... I'll add that to the list, and try to get it in before hardy.19:33
nealmcbdthacker: you can find raw recent meeting logs at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/19:36
nealmcbe.g. http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20071127_1603.html for today19:36
nealmcbbut those get moved I think later on19:36
nealmcbsommer: you rock :-)19:37
sommerheh party!19:37
macdmathiaz, around?20:33
mathiazmacd: yes.20:34
macdI saw the meeting minutes, do you have a link on the wiki to using tasksel?20:35
macdohh, and I added a few tihngs to it the other day detailing the exact configuration changes20:35
mralphabetnijaba: are you around?20:47
mralphabetnijaba: I am looking at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOS and made some minor corrections (spelling).20:48
mralphabetnijaba: there is one spot that I can't seem to fix.  Under 'Installing VMware Tools', 'Next should ask VMware to mount the VMwareTools CD', VMwareTools shows as a link, but only 'MwareTools' is actually linked.  When I edit the page to correct it, there is no link in the wiki code.20:50
mralphabetnijaba: so not sure where it is getting the link from, but I thought I would mention it.20:50
nijabamralphabet: Thanks for your corrections.  Regarding the Link, I came to the conclusion of a bug in InterWiki...21:42
mathiazmacd: the documentation I've found about tasksel is its README file21:44
mathiazmacd: in /usr/share/doc/tasksel/21:44
sorenmralphabet: It's a link because it has at least two capital letters in it separated by lower case letters. It doesn't matter if a page exists with that name.22:00
nijabamralphabet: regarding your edit of sudo apt-get install lamp-server^, the ^ is not a mistake, it is actually required :)22:00
mralphabetnijaba: oh, heh, sorry about that ;(22:01
nijabamralphabet: np.  soren just fixed the link btw: VMware{{{}}}Tools22:01
mralphabetnijaba: I'll put the ^ back in22:02
nijabamralphabet: thanks22:03
macdmathiaz, thanks.22:22
=== cody-somerville_ is now known as somerville32
=== tiborio_ is now known as tiborio

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