=== paul____ is now known as pschulz01 [03:35] if i blow away 70-persistent-net.rules will it be recreatd next boot? [03:38] anybody have any hardware suggestions for an ubuntu desktop? [03:38] what sort of suggestions [03:40] pteague: Intel video for FOSS video support unless you're a gamer. [03:40] ScottK: if your after *F*oss you'll need intel anyway :) [03:40] intel video? i was thinking nvidia for xvmc [03:42] i'm starting a new job on monday & they're wondering what i want as a workstation... i'm pretty much handling all their web stuff - db, webserver, site, etc [03:42] so you *dont* want broadcom network devices :) [03:43] you can either go with nvidia and known support, or gamble on AMD getting ATI open sooner rather then later for video [03:43] was thinking amd cpu & nvidia video [03:44] amd is ok. not been exactly cutting edge recently (on desktops), but solid still [03:44] and less buggy then intels *grin* [03:45] libc6 works on amd... certain features are borken on intel [03:49] thats something worth remember for me i think [03:52] i use chbg on occasion & discovered it wouldn't work on my laptop (intel)... went back & reinstalled the first 6 disc i had & it worked so i locked the libc6 library... i updated my desktop (amd) & chbg worked... so i thought great! it's fixed.. unlocked on laptop, downloaded updates, & it's broken! hehe [03:54] i dont have tha ttool, what is it? [03:55] screensaver, desktop changer... can use it as a slideshow as well [03:55] aaah. [03:57] i realize there's a couple different xscreensaver things that do something similar, but it has a lot of options & the really nice thing about it is i can get it to just display all the images dead center [05:43] i had a question about apache now that i have my ubuntu server setup (i didnt use the livecd, but the server cd) i was wondering if someone was available for a few questions [05:46] !tell orochi2 about ask [05:48] lol ok good, someone's alive out there. I used to run a gentoo box as a LAMP, I like Ubuntu so far, but i want to do it right. What would be the best way of setting up my website. I find it a pain to deal with the files in /var/www as they are all root:root, what would be the best way to manage those files? Create a virtual host for my .com for the user i use, leave it as root and live with it what would be the best way to go abou [05:50] depends. for personal space simply create public_html and put your files in thre [05:50] otherwise, look into vhosts (asking about this stuff in #apache would be a good idea too) [05:51] ok [05:52] should I leave my vhost as root:root or what would be the owner:group i should have the files be in? [05:53] ideally yes, tehy would stay as root, but if you will edit the fils a lot, it might make sense to go with youruser:www-data [05:53] ok ill look into that [08:06] What should I prefer nowadays if I want to run multiple (web) environments on a (Ubuntu) Linux box? [08:06] E.g., some plone portal(s), some wiki(s) and some other services (like DNS or e-mail) [08:06] Xen might be an overkill, but I am not sure if VServer or something similar is a good idea... [08:07] Seperating those services with a VM is a very good idea [08:08] Xen is pretty painless to setup on Gutsy now, plus you can just bootstrap a base ubuntu system, then install those services you need only [08:08] You mean install the separate services in separate VMs? [08:14] Sure, why not [08:14] its a very good way to minimize risk from a securty standpoint also [08:17] Sure, but you have to upgrade each machine, and you run many kernels [12:57] <_oet> Hallo [12:58] _oet: english here [12:58] <_oet> Woops, english channel offcourse :P [12:58] <_oet> my bad ;) [13:21] moin [13:23] kraut: hey [13:23] hi sommer [13:23] interesting surname :) [13:23] kraut: thx [13:24] had it all my life... heh === joerlend_ is now known as XiXaQ [13:35] <_oet> I was wondering, whether the support for the current 7.10 server version is completely stopped in 2009 or that security updates will continue to be provided.. [13:40] _oet: I'm pretty sure that means that there won't be any security updates after that [13:40] <_oet> ok, thanks for the info :) === coNP is now known as coNP[uni] [13:41] _oet: 8.04 will be an LTS release though, if I'm not mistaken [13:42] <_oet> ok [13:42] <_oet> i'll keep that in mind [13:43] It will, firecrotch [13:43] thanks, MenZa [13:44] _oet: are you planning on using Ubuntu for a webserver or something of that nature? [14:04] i want to install gnome.. then i did apt-get install gnome.. [14:05] now, how to start my gnome? [14:05] CyberMad: startx [14:05] dont you need ubuntu-desktop ? [14:06] CyberMad: you might check out this forum thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-186298.html [14:06] or /etc/init.d/gdm start [14:06] it lists all the packages you'll need [14:06] ok thanks a lot [14:07] so, what is the different between ubuntu-server dan ubuntu-desktop? only on the package? [14:07] like ubuntu-desktop doesn't have samba package on cd, etc [14:07] is that correct? [14:10] its the packages for a GUI desktop , a server doesnt need one by default [14:10] CyberMad: yep different packages on the CD, different kernel, different installer [14:10] is this what you mean: [14:10] sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop [14:10] sudo apt-get install gdm [14:10] sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start [14:10] sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg [14:11] well, i just want to run vmware-server on ubuntu-server [14:11] actually i don't have any idea about that [14:12] i want running windows xp on vmware-server [14:12] so everyone can remote that XP [14:12] because we don't XP on every computers [14:12] but sometime we still need XP [14:14] CyberMad: you should be able to do that on Ubuntu Server [14:22] sommer without the GUI ? [14:22] sommer have you try the vmware-server ? [14:23] CyberMad: nope I haven't tried vmware myself in quite a while... I think it can though? [14:23] others in this channel I know have [14:24] :) [14:24] well ok, i will test it this week [14:24] thnks [14:24] CyberMad: here's a wiki page on vmware: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware/Server [14:24] you could try that out and update the page if there's anything missing :) [14:24] that's very cool... will help me much.. thanks [14:24] np [14:34] <_ruben> just curious .. are there any plans whatsoever to support PF_RING on ubuntu (server)? just found catapulta.org, which does incorporate PF_RING, but is still at beta state [14:37] _ruben: you ought to be able to enable it in Ubuntu [14:37] _ruben: I found a tutorial that works on Debian which would be a good starting point, at least [14:37] http://bjou.homeunix.net/blog/2006/12/advanced-packet-capturing-howto-pf_ring-napi-and-extended-libpcap-on-debian-sarge/ [14:39] <_ruben> firecrotch: i know that url .. its a bit outdated since it mentions a cvs repo intead of svn .. and i expect PF_RING to integrate into ubuntu/debian kernels 'nicer' than our current SuSE kernels (old kernels with tons of security backports) [14:40] <_ruben> bit curious though if there were any plans on actually offering support on it and providing the appropriate kernels/libpcap libs for it [14:41] Ah, well, I'm definitely not the person to find out about that from === Drazha[away] is now known as Drazha [15:56] server team meeting in 4 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting: [15:56] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting [15:59] nealmcb: I think they will... can always update it later :) [16:00] the cert statement that is === Drazha is now known as Drazha[away] [16:05] isn't today the meeting? [16:06] nxvl_work: yep #ubuntu-meeting [16:25] !mda [16:25] Sorry, I don't know anything about mda - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [16:41] Can anyone help me reconnect my split-brained drbd? [16:42] I have them both set to secondary/unknown, but can't get them to connect. Not bothered which is primary, only testing at the mo. [17:00] nealmcb: It's probably worth mentionind that although Postfix is primarily an MTA, it can serve as an MSA and and MDA too. [17:00] ahh - got it [17:02] MSA? [17:02] Mail Submission Agent. [17:02] Which does what? [17:02] * lamont tries to decide if he cares what the 'S' and 'D' stand for [17:02] MUA -> MSA -> MTA -> MTA -> MDA -> MUA. [17:03] so postfix with a smarthost is an msa? [17:03] any other msas? [17:03] I'd say yes, but there are probably protocol police that would disagree. [17:03] (anything with a smarthost....) [17:03] MSA means that it listens on the 'submission' port, for MUAs to talk to. [17:04] ahh [17:04] MTA means it listens on the 'smtp' port [17:04] * ScottK likes lamont's definitions [17:04] MDA means that it delivers to local/virtual/whatever mailboxes, from whence MUAs grab it [17:04] MUA means a user interacts with it directly [17:05] MUI == mail using idiot [17:05] aka, user [17:05] So Postfix is an MSA because an MUA can poke stuff into its queue by way of /usr/sbin/sendmail ? [17:05] MUI -> MUA -> MSA -> MTA -> MTA -> MDA -> MUA -> MUI. :-) [17:05] so are pop/imap servers actually MDAs then? [17:05] No. [17:05] Did my mail not reach the mailing list yet? [17:05] keescook: they don't deliver to mailboxes. they provide access to them [17:06] soren: MSA is, IMO, kinda stupid. [17:06] the concept, that is. [17:06] lamont: Agreed. [17:06] soren: no it did, and I thought the same you did -- I was just trying to figure out what to call the pop/imap piece [17:06] an MSA is an MTA that listens on the 'submission' port. [17:06] lamont: It's something that only marginally makes sense on a design diagram of postfix and *nowhere* else. :) [17:06] MSA makes sense for ISPs that want to block MTA traffic. :P [17:06] I think the goal of the submission port is to help fight spam by separating submission from transfer at the port leel [17:06] which it, therefore, assumes is an MUA talking to it, not some random MTA, or spamware. [17:06] nealmcb: yup [17:07] so pop/imap is an Mailbox Access Agent? (between the MDA and the MUA?) [17:07] * keescook loves making stuff up [17:07] nealmcb: which does next to nothing for you when the spamware connects to the MSA [17:07] * lamont ^5s keeskook. [17:08] what are we gonna make the rest of the letters?? [17:08] msa? mui? :-) [17:08] ffs... [17:08] :p [17:08] nealmcb: I assume that MSA was someone elses. MUI is all mine. [17:08] soren: ffs is a very nice kernel routine, returning the first set bit in a word [17:08] msa is real (as ScottK says: Mail Submissions Agent) [17:09] MAA... mail authentication agent? [17:09] (without the trailing s) [17:09] * nealmcb nods [17:09] MBA: masters of business administration. [17:09] lamont: ffs == first f???? set? [17:09] mba mail bs agent? aka spammer? [17:09] find first set [17:09] lamont: of course. [17:09] IIRC there's an Internet Draft somewhere that defines all these. [17:09] * lamont was thinking mail breaking agent [17:09] same thing [17:09] Ah, that would be Exchange. [17:10] ah-ha, Mail Retrieval Agent [17:10] sorry, missed the meeting. when will transcripts be up? [17:10] http://wiki.mutt.org/?MailConcept [17:10] ScottK: stop introducing facts into the discussion (internet draft) [17:10] time we all moved to jabber and rss and left this mail morass to die a slow death :-) [17:10] MYA: mame your a** [17:11] hrm... IP-over-bullhorn. [17:11] Speaking of such, rfc2821bis is in IETF last call now. [17:13] keescook: nice one [17:14] ScottK: prior to being voted on, yes? [17:14] lamont: Yes. [17:14] So this would be the time to look at it and kvetch. [17:14] http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-klensin-rfc2821bis-06.txt [17:14] ScottK: thanks [17:15] nealmcb: No trouble. [17:16] keescook: I think they're onto us. [17:17] lamont: dangit [17:43] Table create at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerPackageReview [17:44] Volunteers should now run to put their names along the best packages ;) [18:13] hi [18:13] ScottK: you'll work on amavis? [18:23] lamont, ScottK ping? [18:24] ivoks: Yes. [18:25] ivoks: I think the package itself is in good shape. I'd be curious if you have comments. [18:26] defaults are ok [18:26] from my experience, i had problems only with systems with misconfigured /etc/hosts [18:26] and that's quite often :/ [18:27] other than that, package is in great shape [18:27] maybe we could work on some rules for ubuntu [18:27] i have a dream when amavis will become part of default mail server installation :) [18:28] Right, well that'd be a big part of the point for moving it to main. [18:28] I did make a change to make it easier to fix the config if you've got a /etc/hosts problem and don't know Perl syntax. [18:29] great [18:30] i'll work on drbd [18:30] nad maybe we could push postgrey to main too? [18:31] it had only one CVE entry, IIRC, in couple of years... [18:31] ivoks: I'm not convinced on postgrey. I think Greylisting is useful now, but the benifit is only transient. More and more spammers are retrying now, so it's value is dimishing. I don't see supporting it for 5 years. [18:31] they are retrying, with same ip [18:32] that's when other antispam tools kick in [18:32] i use it and it does more than all other anti spam tools at the moment [18:32] there are installations where i use it for 2 years [18:32] 0 problems [18:33] but i understand your point [18:33] anti-spam protection is very dynamic area... [18:35] ivoks: speaking of anti-spam I've added a section on Mail Filtering to the server guide... I was wondering if I could send it to you for review? [18:35] I think adding amavisd-new is a sensible, stable core to allow people to hang whatever they want off of it. [18:35] ivoks: Do you read postfix-users? [18:36] ScottK: not that I don't value your input, but the more reviews the merrier [18:36] sommer: Of course. [18:36] sommer: sure [18:36] ScottK: no... :) [18:37] ivoks: cool, there's also an update to the Postfix SASL section using Dovecot. [18:37] ivoks: OK. There was a funny bit today about an Ubuntu user writing in with a Postfix problem that turned out to be webmin adding 'sudo' to their smtpd_recipient_restrictions. [18:37] :) [18:38] i'll check archives :) [18:38] webmin is evil. [18:38] ivoks: I'll get that to you this evening, thanks again. [18:38] sommer: great [18:40] i have to get rid of desktop related packages i maintain :) [18:40] they hunt me while i'm a sleep :) [18:40] ivoks: Don't sleep then. Sleep is for the weak. [18:41] you can't imagine how little sleep i had last two weeks [18:42] i'm working on a quite big project... it will go public in 20 days [18:42] Sounds fun. I've done things like that. [18:44] fun... hm, i don't think there's a good word for that :) [18:46] see you later [18:51] sommer: can you send me the mail filtering section also? [19:02] nealmcb: absoluteley [19:30] sommer - a section in the server guide on how server differs from desktop (kernel, no x11, etc) would be handy I bet. those articles from http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netos/article.php/3710641 have more detail than we want, but touching on a few of them would make savvy users feel more comfortable [19:33] nealmcb: good idea... I'll add that to the list, and try to get it in before hardy. [19:36] dthacker: you can find raw recent meeting logs at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ [19:36] e.g. http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.20071127_1603.html for today [19:36] but those get moved I think later on [19:37] sommer: you rock :-) [19:37] heh party! [20:33] mathiaz, around? [20:34] macd: yes. [20:35] I saw the meeting minutes, do you have a link on the wiki to using tasksel? [20:35] ohh, and I added a few tihngs to it the other day detailing the exact configuration changes [20:47] nijaba: are you around? [20:48] nijaba: I am looking at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOS and made some minor corrections (spelling). [20:50] nijaba: there is one spot that I can't seem to fix. Under 'Installing VMware Tools', 'Next should ask VMware to mount the VMwareTools CD', VMwareTools shows as a link, but only 'MwareTools' is actually linked. When I edit the page to correct it, there is no link in the wiki code. [20:50] nijaba: so not sure where it is getting the link from, but I thought I would mention it. [21:42] mralphabet: Thanks for your corrections. Regarding the Link, I came to the conclusion of a bug in InterWiki... [21:44] macd: the documentation I've found about tasksel is its README file [21:44] macd: in /usr/share/doc/tasksel/ [22:00] mralphabet: It's a link because it has at least two capital letters in it separated by lower case letters. It doesn't matter if a page exists with that name. [22:00] mralphabet: regarding your edit of sudo apt-get install lamp-server^, the ^ is not a mistake, it is actually required :) [22:01] nijaba: oh, heh, sorry about that ;( [22:01] mralphabet: np. soren just fixed the link btw: VMware{{{}}}Tools [22:02] nijaba: I'll put the ^ back in [22:03] mralphabet: thanks [22:22] mathiaz, thanks. === cody-somerville_ is now known as somerville32 === tiborio_ is now known as tiborio