=== vorian is now known as vorian_afk [04:48] it sure is quiet in here [04:49] Hobbsee!!!!! [04:49] :) [04:49] nixternal: it wasn't so quiet around 12 hours ago :) [04:49] nixternal!!!! :) [04:49] hey Jucato! [04:50] heh [04:50] what happened 12 hours ago? [04:50] hiya Hobbsee [04:50] discussion about mhb's plans for Kubuntu's future package manager :) [04:50] ah yes [04:50] I have been so busy with a clients website, final projects, and plagerizing a 1st draft so I can make it look like I am working on my final paper :p [04:51] PackageKit if and when it gets done [04:51] nope [04:51] I would say pull Adept for the time being and use straight synaptic [04:51] not packagekit [04:51] we are getting way to many issues reported [04:51] why not package kit? [04:51] I am using it in foresight, it is pretty damn nice [04:51] ah foresight uses packagekit as frontend? [04:52] not yet 100%, but getting close [04:52] I built it and have been using it though [04:52] if I interpret him correctly, he's goal is for a browser/based front-end using something like adept-batch as backend (which is a front end to apt...) [04:53] unless someone is going to actively maintain adept, scrap it [04:53] sort of like getdeb (they say) [04:53] why browser based? [04:53] easier to search and install... [04:54] not really browser based I think.. more like kio-apt? apt:/THunderbird will install thunderbird? [04:54] something like that. mhb's the person to explain :) [04:54] is mhb pro-pkgkit? [04:54] if so, I am on his side! :) [04:55] (no) [04:55] nixternal: Just switch to Gnome and you'll have it no problem. [04:55] oh there! ScottK can prolly explain better [04:55] he was there [04:55] ScottK: I still don't believe that you were told the truth about packagekit... [04:55] The idea is have something simple, fast, and easy to use. [04:55] afaik it's not even GNOME-centric/oriented [04:55] (depends on whether you consider D-Bus not to be cross-desktop/fd.o) [04:56] * ScottK just doesn't get the idea of one package management front end for RPM and APT both. It just doesn't add up. [04:56] there's apt-rpm already... [04:56] the day I switch to Gnome is the day I marry Steve Ballmer [04:56] just ain't gonna happen [04:56] and kpackage already supports both DEB and RPM [04:57] and conary :p [04:57] It's like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters. [04:58] Fortunately for everyone I know zero about GUI programming so there's no risk of my doing any actual work on this. [05:03] :) [05:03] fortunately for everyone I don't know much programming yet :) [05:10] GUI/Frontend is the easy part, I suck at the backend part [05:10] :) [05:10] * Jucato huggles nixternal and Hobbsee [05:10] :) [05:11] I need to go to sleep and see if I can actually wake up at 07:00 and not 11:00 tomorrow :) [05:11] I slept through 2 classes today, thankfully in my own bed :) [05:11] lol [05:11] so with that, g'nite and don't let the bed bugs bite! [05:12] k'night! :) [05:46] Jucato: LAAAAAAAAAAA [05:47] * Jucato dies of shock [05:47] mission accomplished [05:48] __/ + \__ "Here lies Jucato..." [06:10] Jucato: so you're liar also? [08:23] Lure: any idea if kdepim enterprise ever released a 3.5.8 version? [08:24] Hobbsee: they do not "release", but they have recently merged stuff from 3.5.8 [08:24] Lure: right, that's what i thought. [08:24] Hobbsee: I will ask if they are now 3.5.8 complete [08:24] Lure: it's too late for this alpha if they are. *shrug* [08:24] Hobbsee: I plan to update enterprise snapshot for hardy this weekend [08:24] cool [08:25] please do actually test them :) [08:25] Hobbsee: I did not want to mess kdepim for first alpha, but somebody else did ;-) [08:25] :) [08:25] well, i'm about to properly fix it now, so... [08:25] Hobbsee: sure, I depend 100% on kdepim and I am running my work laptop on hardy [08:25] Hobbsee: thanks for fixing package dependancy mess [10:10] * buz wonders why usb mass storage devices that were already connected upon boot dont show up in media:/ === Shely is now known as MJ086 [11:09] wow, I sent mail to list [11:10] my first? [11:11] heh [11:12] yeah, I have also written 4 (!!!!) posts to forums this month [11:13] I must be seriously sick [11:21] hi folks [11:28] nazdar mhb [11:31] Riddell: thanks, what a nice greeting! [11:31] Riddell: hello to you too [11:33] mhb: cyfarchion [11:33] nixternal: I am against packagekit, because I disagree with the design ... it will work, but it is far too complex to just work fast [11:34] nixternal: I like simple and fast applications, Adept was not one of them, but PackageKit will be even more complex than that [11:35] Tm_T: is that welsh? [11:35] aye [11:36] mhb: google revealed? [11:37] Tm_T: yup, I never heard that language before. [11:37] heh [11:37] Unfortunately, I guess. [11:37] me neither in "real life" [11:40] nixternal: my point (and not just mine, I admit I am influenced by a presentation ast had on our uni this week) is that because of overly complex software like packagekit, software is getting slower faster than hardware is getting faster (Wirth's law) [11:46] so, with me having given up, is anyone else organizing the meeting? [11:46] ? [11:47] Tm_T: we have tons of topic for a meeting, yet we cannot agree on a date [11:47] ahha [11:47] I tried to get together one, but I gave up in the end [11:48] aye [11:48] every week there is someone saying "oh, this date is no good, there are holidays in U.S./China/South Africa..." [11:49] or someone from the council is too busy [11:49] I know that issue way too well [11:50] I am not the type to organize this kind of things, I always go crazy when there is a deadlock, I like things simple and fast and immediately, preferably :o) [11:51] I'm just constantly "out" [11:52] * Tm_T is eating now two drugs to head and one occasionally to pain [11:52] all of them are, well, drugs [11:54] Tm_T: hmm, sorry to hear that [11:54] no need to be :) [11:54] it's sort of, hum, improvement [11:54] ah yes, meeting! [11:54] there will be a meeting on my saturday night. [11:55] Hobbsee: which is when in UTC terms? [11:55] just figuring now [11:55] Hobbsee: good! has it been sent to the ML yet? [11:55] mhb: no [11:55] 11am UTC good? [11:56] fine here (I am quite adaptable, though) [11:56] Lure: Riddell? [11:56] Jucato: ? [11:57] Hobbsee: I have to work on my daughter's school on Sat, so it might be tough for me [11:58] Hobbsee: yes, should be ok [11:59] Hobbsee: I will try to get one hour free around that time and come around [11:59] cool, OK :) === _czessi is now known as Czessi [12:07] Hobbsee: no problem (like always...) [12:21] stdin: ping me when you're not to busy in support. need to ask a kde4 (from svn) setup question [12:23] ping -c1 Jucato [12:23] unknown host [12:23] stdin: you built kde4 from svn before right? and run it as your primary user? [12:23] I have [12:24] it's been a while since I've done it though [12:24] hmm.. just gonna ask, did you keep your kde3 apps' $KDEHOME separte from kde4's? and how? or did you just set $KDEHOME to ~/.kde for all? [12:25] I had KDEHOME=$HOME/.kde4 [12:26] and kde3 apps use that as their home too? [12:26] yeah, if you run them after you export that setting [12:27] hmm ok :) [12:27] * Jucato wonders what to do when running a full kDE4 session as his main user, but still keep kde3 app data and configs... [12:27] if the kde3 apps see a settings in a config file that they don't understand, they usually just leave it alone [12:30] Jucato: you could (if you have the inclination) just make wrapper scripts in ~/bin for the kde3 apps that have "export KDEHOME=~/.kde ; exec YourKDE3App" [12:30] at least for the kde3 apps you really need to keep separate from kde4 settings [12:30] hm.. yeah... I think that's in the bashrc script... thanks for reminding me :) [12:35] Jucato: there is start3app function that can help to run kde3 apps from origiginal KDEHOME [12:35] Lure: yeah I forgot :) [13:03] you should be able to run kde 4 without settings KDEHOME now [13:03] testers for that welcome [13:16] mornin' [13:16] mhb: packagekit thus far is faster than synaptic from what I have witnessed [13:22] nixternal: what habe you witnessed? [13:22] have [13:24] Hobbsee: 11 is fine for me, shall we declare that final? [13:25] Riddell: sounds good to me. [13:25] Riddell: I have been using package kit in foresight and it is blazingly fast and I have seen others at the LUG messing with it [13:39] nixternal: fancy adding kubuntu meeting at 11:00UTC to fridge? [13:42] sure [13:42] when though? [13:43] 11 utc, my saturday night [13:43] which i believe is your saturday day [13:44] saturday morning (05:00) [13:46] added to the fridge [13:56] Hobbsee: if we have any candidates for Saturday, besides stdin, let me know so I can give a preview and email my votes [13:58] * Jucato will keep quiet there... but assures stdin of his support... [13:58] :) [13:59] I already gave Hobbsee my vote for stdin, and it wasn't pretty :p [13:59] :P [13:59] :P [13:59] hi folks :) [13:59] if it were a model, it would look something like this -> - | 1 [13:59] howdy sebastian^ [14:00] !hi [14:00] Hi! Welcome to #kubuntu-devel! [14:00] :) [14:01] what a boring day and what a damn weather here in ffm :-/ [14:02] it be a cold one today in Chicago...we are supposed to get some good snow this week though I heard [14:02] * nixternal checks weather.com [14:02] ffm? [14:02] 80.7 ºF over here... at night... :/ [14:03] i think we wont get any snow here in frankfurt [14:04] only cold and wet weather :-/ [14:41] hey, I would love to stay and chat, but I have to go learn something today :p [14:43] greetings [14:44] * Hobbsee waves [14:45] * Jucato drawns [14:45] er.. drowns... [14:45] even in dying I can't spell... [14:47] that's what spell checkers are for [14:47] buz: ok, I think this patch looks uploading to my ppa soon [15:08] I feel I've done my good deed for the day, just removed all instances of "use sudo vi ..." from the help.u.c :) [15:09] hi Serega [15:10] stdin: what did you replace them with? [15:10] Riddell: sudo nano [15:10] stdin: can you make the meeting on saturday? [15:11] Riddell: I'm pretty sure I can [15:11] unless, ya know, someone dies, I'll be here :p [15:11] * Hobbsee dies [15:12] nooo, we need the LPSoD [15:12] Riddell: the other candidates are the kubuntu-es admins, but.. looks like I'm the only one that can +1 them, would they count? [15:13] jpatrick: sure [15:13] ok, cool [15:15] buz: just finished uploading the LUKS enabled kdebase to my ppa [15:15] hope it builds.. [15:17] jpatrick: hey [15:26] has anyone tried my patch? [15:28] Serega: I'm afraid it hasn't got to the top of my todo list yet [15:28] it should do sometime today [15:35] jpatrick: lemme see [15:35] oh its still building :) [16:56] nixternal: have you tested that on our minimum requirements? [16:57] nixternal: Vista is also fast, provided you have a new machine... speed is a) relative b) not always the right value to measure. [17:00] nixternal: it is an implication - simplicity => speed, but the other way around does not have to be true. [17:01] besides, does daemonized package management actually solve any of our problems? [17:02] do we have problems with the current way, except that Adept sucks? [17:03] * mhb should stop asking silly questions to an empty room :o) [17:05] the problem with the current way is there's nobody to maintain a package manager. if we can do it cross distro that going to be less of a problem [17:08] Riddell: like I said before, although it is a wicked idea, I dont see a reason for a "classical" PM at the moment [17:09] I see a reason for a way to install and remove applications, users do that [17:09] advanced users will use apt tools because it offers much more than a conventional PM will ever offer [17:12] but we dont need a robust tool as Adept was ... IMHO we need an updater, a batch mode installer and gdebi. Everything else either lacks a target user base, or can be substituted by an advanced kio-apt. [17:43] heh [17:44] http://www.alweb.dk/gallery/engelsk/oxygen_menu [17:44] * nosrednaekim is mad! there is no GHOP KDE projects!! === apachelogger is now known as onairlogger === apachelogger is now known as onairlogger [19:19] come on people, lets not make this a silent channel [19:20] maybe we are all busy working on kubuntu? [19:21] very busy! [19:21] Riddell for sure [19:21] the others I am not that sure ... [19:22] look at nix, for example, jumping ship and working on foresight [19:22] :o) [19:22] * jpatrick grrs ppa [19:22] mhb: I'm trying to implement LUKS support into kdebase :p [19:22] all most got it [19:23] jpatrick: shouldn't kubuntu-es.org be working? [19:24] Riddell: someone else has the domain name, and we're waiting for it to become unregistered, however the site can be access for {x|edu}buntu-es [19:29] now... anyone know how I can get the Makefile's in /kioslave/media/mounthelper/ to make a decryptdialog.ui into a *.h? [19:31] jpatrick: just add it to the foo_SOURCES target [19:31] * jpatrick adds to kio_media_la_SOURCES [19:32] you might also need to run make -f Makefile.cvs after editing Makefile.am files [19:33] but.. that will mean adding it to debian/rules no? [19:35] no, it just needs to be run once [19:35] make -f debian/rules buildprep does the same thing [19:36] ok, cool, don't want to break anything there [19:39] jpatrick: did the sources compile for you locally? [19:40] buz: no, but I just have to add the decryptdialog.ui to the Makefile and that should be it :) [19:41] aight [19:50] aw KDE isn't participating in this http://code.google.com/opensource/ghop/2007-8/ [19:57] i have never even heard of silverstipe [19:57] stripe [19:58] * mhb neither [19:59] looks like ajaxified typo3 [20:08] stdin: ping [20:09] CPrgmSwR2: pong [20:10] Are you going to re-build kde4 or wait until its released to rebuild it [20:10] haven't really decided yet, I'll build it from svn a few times and see if there's any point [20:11] stdin: the one you built previously has the windows listed with 50% of the bar [20:11] and uses the blue bar rather than the new black bar [20:12] I'm sure that'll be fixed sometime by kde, but there's no exact time for it [20:13] its already fixed [20:13] so I'd have to build it from svn, test it, reppackage it then re-upload it [20:13] its just not in the builds that you made [20:13] I know, I built what kde released :p [20:13] ah okay [20:14] I'd also have to get some sort of system going where I can test the builds and upload if they're ok [20:15] and my bandwidth will definitely suffer if i decide to do that [20:15] oh okay [20:16] it's also dependant on the state of the PPAs, there's not guarantee the quota won't come into force soon [20:16] stdin: then how will kde4 get built in the future === jpatrick_ is now known as jpatrick [20:16] same way the betas were, the'll be uploaded to the ubuntu archive [20:17] by Riddell most likely [20:17] okay [20:17] (he has more package-foo than me) [20:17] I will just wait another 2 weeks then [20:18] if you're really interested in seeing the current state of KDE4 then SVN is always the best way to go [20:18] the source changes so much by the time I packaged it and released it, it'd be out-of-date [20:19] yeah thats true [20:19] CPrgmSwR2: there'll also be some Kubuntu+KDE4 LiveCDs available, like the one for RC1 now [20:22] stdin: okay thnx [20:22] * bobesponja is away: Gone away for now. === bobesponja is now known as bobesponja_ [20:41] like I said before - http://www.alweb.dk/gallery/engelsk/oxygen_menu - is a good benchmark on how KDE4.0 will be ready [20:42] the oxygen menu is really strange, and the theme wont be ready even for 4.0 release [20:43] the theme is totally unready [20:43] oxygen icons are one of the best parts of KDE 4 [20:43] icons are nice, true ... but I fear "not-ready" parts of KDE 4.0 will be spread throughout the system [20:44] is the plasma panel movable yet? [20:44] not sure, waiting for the new snapshot to package [20:44] the release will probably be delayed until january anyway [20:45] oh will it? [20:45] I havent heard the news yet [20:45] that's the vibe from release-team [20:47] hmm [20:49] someone slap me, I am slowly starting to stop being delusional about the great, slow moving cathedral being KDE [20:50] =) [20:50] mhb: I had something fun in my KDE4 [20:51] mhb: almost like it was software accelerated [20:51] Riddell: shh, you weren't supposed to talk about pushing it back another month :p [20:51] mhb: no jumping ship to foresight here....I am Kubuntu blue through and through :) [20:51] a delay sounds like a sensible thing [20:51] meh [20:52] its only approaching beta quality about now in my book [20:52] buz: I tend to agree [20:52] depends on parts [20:52] Konqueror is probably the buggiest thing I have seen yet, and less than a month isn't going to be enough time to work out all of its kinks [20:52] Konsole has some weird painting issues [20:53] or is it Oxygen style, who knows [20:53] Tm_T: forgot about that....plus if I can't make konsole transparent, then it isn't ready in my book :) [20:53] nixternal: Then you must not use Adept. [20:53] ya, the oxygen style isn't my favorite :) [20:53] ScottK: I only use adept_updater [20:53] and i sure cant get compositing to work [20:53] Well there you go. [20:54] I have a dpkg -l > foo that I use to install all of the apps I use when I create a new system [20:54] has anyone tested KDE4 when it comes to speed? [20:54] I mean doing a non-debug build and then compare startup times, etc. [20:55] mhb: slow, but not deadly slow...i run it on a celern m 1.6 with 1.5gb of ram [20:55] mhb: some things seemed pretty quick, others pretty slow [20:55] not the fastest machine, but unlike compiz, all of the composite stuff actually works on this intel chipset [20:55] intel++ [20:55] nixternal: slow? aww. [20:55] nixternal: what intel chipset do you have? [20:55] 945? something like that [20:55] * onairlogger notes to do some speed testing [20:55] OTOH, my intel chipset doesnt work at all [20:55] i can run compiz but not kwin_composite [20:55] mhb: same here [20:56] 965 [20:56] Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/GME, [20:56] ya [20:56] could you post your xorg somewhere? [20:56] xorg.conf that is ;) [20:56] me? [20:56] ntel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller [20:56] yeah [20:56] sure buz, one sec [20:56] mhb: the 943 is some sort of castrated chip [20:56] !pastebin [20:56] pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic) [20:57] nixternal: was that to me? [20:57] i think that was to himself ;) [20:57] buz: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/46150/ [20:57] nixternal: I just posted one line :o( please do sentence me to life [20:57] thanks [20:57] will try it tomorrow [20:57] mhb: no, I couldn't remember the pastebin url :) [20:58] -.- [21:00] why is every new piece of software so slow :o( [21:00] nixternal: you're using another driver [21:00] that one doesnt work with my 965 [21:00] :( [21:01] oh [21:01] I has a 965 as well I think [21:01] got composite to work on that? [21:02] I solemnly swear the next piece of software I am going to develop, I am going to make sure the minimum requirements will stay fixed throughout the releases and that speed would either stay the same or increase [21:02] http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/46151/ [21:02] also, I solemnly swear that I am up to no good. [21:02] buz: what's your issue? [21:02] argh can't remember what is that line from mhb? [21:02] harry potter right [21:03] kwin_composite complains "No compositing" [21:03] even though compiz works just fine [21:03] Oo [21:03] buz: packages or self compiled? [21:04] stdin's packages [21:05] is compositing actually enabled in these pacakges? [21:05] it is, I got it working [21:05] hm [21:05] < intel 945 [21:06] relevant section of ~/.kde4/share/config/kwinrc > http://stdin.pastebin.com/m65a121d1 [21:06] Xrender is painfully slow [21:06] and doesnt seem to work, anyhow [21:06] not slow for me [21:07] +1 [21:08] +1 for which comment? [21:09] the not slowy one :) === kde4 is now known as buz_kde4 [21:09] could paste the url again? i cant copy paste between sessions :) [21:09] in fact, it's fast enough for me to use on the liveCD, so it more than enough from a real session [21:10] http://stdin.pastebin.com/m65a121d1 [21:10] thx [21:10] you can access the kwin composite settings by running "kcmshell4 kwincompositing" too [21:11] mhh doesnt seem to very much [21:11] dim inactive windows doesnt do anything at all [21:11] can also click in the window title bar [21:11] no shadows anywhere, either [21:11] try tweaking the settings with the command I gave [21:12] mhh it works with alt tab [21:12] thats weird [21:13] yeah thats the same as you get with right click title bar -> configure window behavior -> desktop effects [21:13] did you restart kwin after pasting the section in kwinrc? [21:13] yes [21:14] some effects appear [21:14] like dimming with alt-tab [21:14] well, then composite is working [21:15] but dim inactive windows for example is not [21:15] and it creates no end of graphic errors [21:15] like broken menu [21:16] or disappearing windows [21:16] which then reappear later [21:17] buz_kde4: bug report [21:17] hard to describe [21:17] i might try doing a video [21:18] well, you can first bug lubos on irc [21:18] whatever his nick might be -.- [21:18] looks like the disappearing stuff is related to the fall apart plugin [21:18] without that, it doesnt seem to happen [21:19] mhh the thumbnail at side of screen is neat [21:25] stdin: you a member yet? [21:25] i thought we voted him in :) [21:25] not yet :( [21:28] stdin: pitty... bug them all :) [21:29] I could, but there's a meeting on saturday anyway [21:29] few days won't kill me, hopefully :p [21:36] hrm, a meeting on saturday? [21:37] yep [21:37] guess I missed an email somewhere then [21:38] kwwii: it was only decided today [21:38] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1245 [21:39] cool, thanks for that link [21:43] which reminds me, we are having an art team meeting if someone other than myself would like to represent kubuntu [21:43]