[00:00] <ubotu> New bug: #172457 in launchpad "submitting milestone edit page returns me to the project home page" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172457
[00:31] <kiko-fud> aa_, yeah, it has. it's on the roadmap.
[00:32] <aa_> kiko-fud: great, thanks
[01:07] <JanC> is there a place to report spam in launchpad bugs?
[01:08] <Hobbsee> JanC: yeah.  when people are here, it's here, but otherwise it's probably a question on launchpad
[01:08] <JanC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/34902/comments/174
[01:08] <Hobbsee> JanC: what's the offending account?
[01:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 34902 in ubuntu "Ralink Wireless legacy drivers (rt2500 rt61 rt73 rt2570) USB/PCMCIA/PCI hangs PC" [High,Confirmed]  - Assigned to Ubuntu Kernel Team (ubuntu-kernel-team)
[01:09] <Hobbsee> kiko-fud: please deal with ^
[01:10] <jcastro> http://www.happyassassin.net/2007/10/24/mistakes/
[01:10] <jcastro> you guys check this out?
[01:12] <Fujitsu> jcastro: We have feared similar things for months.
[01:13] <Hobbsee> jcastro: please file a bug on update-manager, if not already filed, to not let people upgrade with ppa's in the sources list.
[01:13]  * Fujitsu notes that the main complaint there seems to be that they don't build against each other.
[01:13] <Hobbsee> or at least a discussion bug
[01:13] <Fujitsu> That seems to be a silly idea.
[01:13] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: does he cover the case yet where what happens when 2 packages of the same name are in different versions...which one to build against?
[01:14] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: No.
[01:14] <JanC> upgrading without ppa's in the sources list won't help much
[01:14] <jcastro> Hobbsee: I am pretty sure this was already part of the plan.
[01:14] <JanC> it's easily possible that a newer version is installed already...
[01:15] <LaserRock> jcastro: seems like a fairly sane evaluation to me
[01:15] <JanC> update-manager already disables all non-ubuntu repositories
[01:15] <Hobbsee> JanC: no, do as they do for automatix
[01:15] <Hobbsee> or, were *planning* to do for automatix, but forgot.
[01:16] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: then his view is somewhat simplistic, and broken in other ways
[01:16] <aa_> hmm but can I format text in the roadmap? or link images?
[01:16] <Fujitsu> aa_: Not at the moment.
[01:16] <JanC> you mean disabling upgrading completely?
[01:17] <aa_> Fujitsu: is it planned?
[01:17] <Hobbsee> JanC: yup
[01:17] <Fujitsu> aa_: There's a bug on that, I'll have a number for you in a sec.
[01:17] <JanC> how do you see if there was a ppa configured in the past?
[01:17] <aa_> Fujitsu: no it's cool, don't bother
[01:17] <Hobbsee> JanC: but kde4 is in a ppa.  darn.
[01:18] <LaserRock> Hobbsee: hehe, there's no way to have any level of "trust" currently
[01:18] <JanC> plus, how many developers who know what they do will be blocked from upgrading by this?
[01:18] <Fujitsu> aa_: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/launchpad/+spec/description-markup
[01:19] <aa_> Fujitsu: thanks, I can't read the spec though because I don't have access to the dev wiki
[01:19] <Hobbsee> JanC: hm, i'd guess that the idea would be that if anyone had any version of a base lib (stuff required for the  upgrade), that they'd refuse the upgrade.
[01:19] <Fujitsu> JanC: I can imagine that there might be an option like -iacknowledgethatthistoolisnotabenchmark
[01:19] <Hobbsee> aa_: neither can we.  
[01:19] <Fujitsu> aa_: None of us can.
[01:19] <aa_> wow
[01:19] <Fujitsu> Only the Launchpad devs.
[01:19] <Fujitsu> We are but mortals.
[01:20] <aa_> I thought you were all devs
[01:20] <aa_> you are admins?
[01:20] <Hobbsee> hah.  no
[01:20] <ajmitch> nope, and nope
[01:20] <Fujitsu> We are simply mortals, not admins or devs.
[01:20] <JanC> users probably  ;)
[01:20] <aa_> I know kiko has something to do with it!
[01:20] <Fujitsu> kiko is a god.
[01:21] <Hobbsee> JanC: that, and a heck of a lot of force
[01:21] <LaserRock> LP should also have some sort of homepage/wiki setup for projects too methinks
[01:22] <aa_> I hack on one of kiko's open source projects.
[01:22] <Hobbsee> perhaps it would be wise to change the upgrades, so they install ubuntu-standard ubuntu-minimal newly each time, and then look at upgrading the rest beyond that
[01:22] <Fujitsu> LaserRock: That was what aa_ requested above.
[01:22] <aa_> LaserRock: I agree, but I suspect that markup blueprints will work
[01:22] <LaserRock> Fujitsu: well, sort of
[01:22] <LaserRock> Fujitsu: you gave him a markup spec
[01:22] <LaserRock> for descriptions
[01:22] <LaserRock> etc.
[01:22] <Fujitsu> `would be great (imo) if each project came with a built in wiki.'
[01:23] <LaserRock> I think a full wiki/homepage area is needed
[01:23] <Fujitsu> (that's what he said further up)
[01:23] <LaserRock> Fujitsu: yes, I know :-)
[01:23] <LaserRock> I was reiterating that it was a good idea
[01:23] <aa_> well, to be honest markup in descriptions would actually be enough for me
[01:23] <aa_> oh maybe a place to publish some API docs would be nice
[01:24] <LaserRock> yeah
[03:15] <ubotu> New bug: #172489 in malone "project advanced bug search page shows non-portlet content in left margin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172489
[04:49] <Rotund> Are PPAs only for hardy?
[04:50] <Hobbsee> no, you can build for any release
[04:50] <Hobbsee> any supported releas
[04:51] <Hobbsee> e
[04:51] <Hobbsee> you just have to make sure you put the release you want in debian/changelog
[04:52] <Rotund> okay
[04:53] <Rotund> will it attempt to build for different architectures?
[04:53] <Hobbsee> yes
[04:54] <Hobbsee> i386 and amd64 (and lpia)
[04:54] <Rotund> What if I want it to build for gutsy AND hardy?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> you need to use a different version number for each
[04:54] <Rotund> hmmm.  Okay
[04:54] <Hobbsee> say, 1.0~ppa1~gutsy and 1.0~ppa1~hardy
[05:28] <jamesh> Rotund: you could try the autoppa program
[05:29] <Rotund> autoppa?
[05:30] <Rotund> okay.  I see that now
[05:31] <Rotund> Can someone help me w/ how to track an upstream project
[05:31] <Rotund> Should I create a new project first?
[05:31] <Rotund> (in launchpad that is)
[05:50] <ubotu> New bug: #172501 in malone "reject non-code patch attachements" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172501
[06:11] <ubotu> New bug: #172505 in malone "ability to convert a comment into a patch attachment" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172505
[06:21] <ubotu> New bug: #172507 in malone "show patch icon or notification on the comments page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172507
[06:29] <LaserJock> hmm, I better get some karma for that :-)
[07:44] <carlos> morning
[08:04] <Amaranth> spam in comments: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-driver-i810/+bug/146728/comments/22
[08:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 146728 in xorg "[Gutsy Beta] Dots on 16bit Video i810" [Undecided,Invalid] 
[08:17] <LaserJock> carlos: did you get my email about the gcompris .pot?
[08:17] <carlos> LaserJock: yes, although I had problems importing it due to a bug in Launchpad
[08:17] <carlos> it should work now, though
[08:17] <carlos> let me retry it...
[08:19] <LaserJock> carlos: ok, now once it's imported what will happen? I'm a little unsure of the details
[08:20] <LaserJock> carlos: will the translations that are already there be included in the lang packs?
[08:20] <carlos> LaserJock: Launchpad will have latest messages, and with next language pack update, new messages that were already translated will be deployed
[08:20] <carlos> yes
[08:21] <LaserJock> carlos: awesome
[09:27] <mrevell> Morning all!
[09:27] <jtv> morning!
[10:28] <Hobbsee> morning mrevell!
[10:28] <mrevell> hey Hobbsee
[10:28] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Shouldn't you be at work? :)
[10:29] <Hobbsee> mrevell: apparently not.  that's next week.
[10:29] <mrevell> Hobbsee: ah
[10:29] <Hobbsee> erm, if i'm now deactivated from a team, which i was an admin of...*why* am i still receiving admin mail about that team, from launchpad?
[10:30] <Hobbsee> i also note that i can re-become administrator at any point, from the deactivated state, including changing other people's statuses.  I'm not sure that's supposed to happen either.
[10:31] <ubotu> New bug: #172532 in blueprint "add the possibility to convert a blueprint into a bug report or vice versa" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172532
[10:37] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Are you the owner, by any chance?
[10:38] <mrevell> Hobbsee: What Fujitsu said... He typed it quicker than me :)
[10:49] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh.
[10:49] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: my bad.  .
[10:51] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: mrevell thanks, fixed.
[10:52]  * Fujitsu didn't think LP permissions were that broken.
[10:52] <Fujitsu> Though it does do strange things sometimes.
[10:53] <Fujitsu> Like if I create a team, set the ownership to a team containing me, and deactivate myself from the new team, the deactivated record seems to take precedence in some circumstance.
[10:57] <mrevell> Fujitsu: Sorry, I've re-read that a couple of times and I'm not sure what you mean.
[10:57] <Fujitsu> mrevell: I created a team, and set the owner to a team of which I am a member.
[10:58] <mrevell> right
[10:58] <Fujitsu> I then deactivated myself from the new team, and LP seemed adamant that I wasn't a member.
[10:58] <Fujitsu> Though this was a while ago.
[10:59]  * Fujitsu checks if it has been fixed in the intervening months.
[10:59]  * Hobbsee grumbles over html mail
[11:03] <mrevell> Fujitsu: Ah, interesting. I suppose that could be the behaviour that some people would want, possibly.
[11:03] <Fujitsu> mrevell: Perhaps.
[11:04] <Fujitsu> Testing on staging, it seems it just reports it incorrectly in places; I have the expected permissions.
[11:05] <Fujitsu> Evening, cprov.
[11:06] <cprov> Fujitsu: hey 
[11:06]  * Hobbsee waves to cprov, while taking over the world as usual
[11:06]  * Fujitsu heavily defends his part of the world.
[11:06] <mrevell> Fujitsu: I'm in a meeting at the moment, but I'll happily report it as a bug after that, unless you wanna report it. Thanks for pointing it out
[11:06] <Fujitsu> mrevell: I'm reporting it, but thanks.
[11:07] <mrevell> Fujitsu: thanks
[12:52]  * carlos -> lunch
[13:55] <ubotu> New bug: #172573 in soyuz "RFE:  Add a "retry all builds" and a "rescore all builds"  menu item" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172573
[14:06] <mrevell> Hobbsee: ping
[14:08] <Hobbsee> mrevell: pong
[14:08] <mrevell> Hey - I'm gonna pastebin you something in a minute. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised :)
[14:10] <Hobbsee> mrevell: yay :)
[14:10] <Hobbsee> mrevell: what is it?
[14:10] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Just my intro to the session.
[14:11] <Hobbsee> mrevell: :D
[15:00] <barry> hello everybody!
[15:00] <salgado> me!
[15:00] <intellectronica> me
[15:00] <jtv> hello barry!
[15:00] <barry> welcome to the ameu launchpad reviewer's meeting.  for the next 45 minutes or so we'll be conducting a meeting of the western half of the launchpad code review team
[15:00] <mrevell> PPA Q&A session in #ubuntu-classroom now! Sorry reviewer guys
[15:00] <barry> jtv: hi!
[15:01] <mwhudson> me
[15:01] <barry> mrevell: no worries
[15:01] <barry> who's here today?
[15:01] <gmb> me
[15:01] <jtv> me
[15:01] <sinzui> me
[15:01] <BjornT> me
[15:01] <flacoste> me
[15:01] <barry> bac sends his apologies
[15:02] <barry> ddaa: ping
[15:02] <barry> == Agenda ==
[15:02] <barry>  * Roll call
[15:02] <barry>  * Next meeting
[15:02] <barry>  * Action items
[15:02] <barry>  * Queue status
[15:02] <barry>  * Graduations (and recruiting?)
[15:02] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[15:02] <barry>  * Review process changes
[15:02] <barry>    * On-call reviewer
[15:02] <barry>    * Cover letter
[15:02] <barry>    * Death to [trivial]
[15:02] <barry>    * Tool update
[15:02] <ddaa> me
[15:03] <barry> :)
[15:03] <barry>  * Next meeting
[15:03] <mwhudson> week += 1
[15:03] <barry> mwhudson: indeed! :)  anyone know they can't make it?
[15:04] <barry> great
[15:04] <barry>  * Action items
[15:04] <barry> no outstanding action items, except jml's old ones.
[15:05] <barry>  * Queue status
[15:05] <barry> week 1 and the queue looks fine to me
[15:05] <ubotu> New bug: #172587 in soyuz "UI for deleting and copying packages" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172587
[15:06] <barry>  * Graduations (and recruiting?)
[15:06] <barry> so congratulations intellectronica and sinzui for your recent graduation!
[15:07] <gmb> Hear, hear.
[15:07] <mwhudson> hooray
[15:07] <jtv> good show!
[15:07] <LarstiQ> congratulations!
[15:07]  * sinzui opens the beer and starts reviewing
[15:07] <barry> sinzui: ah, i can see you've learned well
[15:08] <ddaa> recruiting?
[15:08] <barry> mentors remember: email me when you think your mentoree is ready for graduation
[15:08] <ddaa> need... moar... brainz
[15:09] <barry> by my count we have 3 mentored reviewers now.  is it time for a couple more recruits?
[15:09] <barry> can we bring anybody on board for the remainder of .12 or should we just wait until next cycle?
[15:10]  * mwhudson leans towards the "wait another cycle" option
[15:10]  * barry does too
[15:10]  * gmb leans away from mwhudson 
[15:10]  * ddaa wants more brains now
[15:10]  * barry is ddaa's mentor, and sends more brains his way
[15:11] <barry> which unfortunately depletes mine to nearly zero
[15:11] <barry> cool. let's wait
[15:11] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[15:11] <barry> mentors, anything to report?
[15:12] <barry> i think that means salgado :)
[15:12] <salgado> heh
[15:12] <salgado> nothing from me
[15:12] <barry> since the other two mentors are me and jamesh_ and he's not here now
[15:12] <barry> and i've already sent all my brains to ddaa
[15:12] <barry>  * Review process changes
[15:12] <barry>    * On-call reviewer
[15:12] <jtv> ddaa: next time you have a sandwich before the meeting, you hear?
[15:13] <barry> i haven't heard from bac about his on-call experience and he's not here today
[15:13] <barry> i already sent an email out about mine
[15:13]  * mwhudson is on the hook tomorrow
[15:13] <salgado> so am I
[15:13] <barry> mwhudson: excellent.  you and salgado, so it'll be our first 2-reviewer day
[15:14] <barry> good luck guys and please let us know how it goes!
[15:14] <salgado> how long is the overlap going to be?
[15:14] <barry> salgado: that's up to your schedule.  you should be primarily on-call during working hours
[15:14] <intellectronica> i'm a rubbish on-call reviewer today, because i only decided to volunteer in the middle of the day, when i already had some work going, but my experience as a customer was great. i think this is a great arrangement
[15:15] <mwhudson> salgado: i guess quite large, as i think we're only two hours apart currently
[15:15] <barry> the one thing i'm uncomfortable with is how on-call works with the PendingReview queue.  yes, we want to kill the latter but in the meantime, we need to figure out how to make this work.
[15:15] <kiko> I'm super happy as this seems like it's going well
[15:15] <kiko> barry, on-call shouldn't use PR.
[15:15]  * ddaa likes pendingreviews
[15:15] <salgado> kiko, why not?
[15:15] <kiko> barry, and PR should go away -- I look at mwhudson and gmb 
[15:15] <barry> kiko: agreed (that it's going well)
[15:15] <jtv> barry: maybe it's not so bad to have both—for different priorities
[15:16] <ddaa> I like stuffing things there and have a review magically appear in my inbox
[15:16] <salgado> I'm letting the on-call reviewers pick the oldest branches from there and review
[15:16] <kiko> I don't like that as much
[15:16] <salgado> by the end of the day I assign the ones that haven't been reviewed
[15:16] <kiko> because it doesn't mean they are really on-call
[15:16] <intellectronica> i also think we shouldn't be using PR. that defeats the whole purpose of on-calls
[15:16] <kiko> what intellectronica said.
[15:17] <barry> what kiko said intellectronica said
[15:17] <kiko> when we have a tool to integrate PR with the review workflow, then it's fine
[15:17] <kiko> but otherwise it is just more overhead
[15:17] <salgado> I didn't see many review requests yesterday, and that seems to be the reason why bac was able to review most of the unallocated branches
[15:17] <kiko> to ask the person asking and the person reviewing to deal with PR
[15:17] <kiko> the whole idea is to do it fast
[15:17]  * barry happily ignored PR while he was on-call
[15:17] <kiko> cover letter: great, but editing PR, not so much
[15:17] <intellectronica> i think a reviewee should talk to the reviewer - if they take the review then it should end in their queue, otherwise it can go to the general queue, but it's no longer an on-call review
[15:17] <mwhudson> something that does seem to be happening is that there is less record of the review
[15:17] <flacoste> that's just your disgust for wiki speaking kiko
[15:17] <kiko> salgado, I think it's fine if the on-call person takes something out of PR if he's bored
[15:17] <barry> i actually like editing PR, just not putting the branch on the general queue
[15:18] <kiko> mwhudson, you and gmb are fixing that -- I hope.
[15:18] <mwhudson> (no emails, etc)
[15:18] <kiko> mwhudson, no emails? huh?
[15:18] <kiko> so hang on 
[15:18] <kiko> when /I/ did some on-calls
[15:18] <intellectronica> kiko: editing the wiki sucks, but not having somewhere to refer to would suck even more
[15:18] <kiko> I said the following
[15:18] <mwhudson> kiko: just an impression i'm getting
[15:18] <kiko> a) send me a cover letter and the patch
[15:18] <kiko> b) I'll reply through email
[15:18] <kiko> I didn't do an IRC review
[15:18] <mwhudson> kiko: i think the cover letter should be cc:ed launchpad-reviews
[15:18] <kiko> but I did it quasi-immediately (so I'm a bad on-call reviewer. I still did it)
[15:19] <mwhudson> kiko: has that always happened?
[15:19] <kiko> mwhudson, the whole exchange should be CC:d
[15:19] <kiko> mwhudson, I'm not sure, but that's how I see this working best
[15:19] <mwhudson> kiko: i think we're agreed then
[15:19] <kiko> cool.
[15:19] <kiko> mwhudson, when the tool is ready, it will make changing PR much easier
[15:20] <kiko> and then we can use PR as our backing store to ensure we also record on-call
[15:20] <barry> irc on #launchpad-reviews should be mandatory for the branch author, but that's to have an interactive q&a with the reviewer.  still, all decisions should be captured in the reviewer's response via email
[15:20] <kiko> but meanwhile I feel like whatever makes people's life easier is best 
[15:20] <kiko> barry, right.
[15:20] <kiko> I think we have a fair set of guidelines, just need barry to publish them
[15:21]  * kiko winks
[15:21]  * barry will edit him some wikis
[15:21] <barry> last thing on this topic...
[15:22] <barry> there are still open slots, so feel free to sign up :)
[15:22] <barry> anything else re: on-call reviewing?
[15:22] <barry> 5
[15:22] <barry> 4
[15:22] <barry> 3
[15:22] <barry> 2
[15:23] <barry> 1
[15:23] <barry>    * Cover letter
[15:23] <barry> i hesitate to bring this up ;)
[15:23] <barry> cover letters good!
[15:23] <kiko> thanks barry. gotta rush :)
[15:23] <flacoste> barry, regarding on-call reviewer, the only non-team lead who didn't sign up is jamesh
[15:24] <flacoste> barry: and mentoree reviewer, so you know who to poke ;-)
[15:24] <barry> flacoste: interesting
[15:24] <flacoste> well, there's also spiv, but he's more part of bazaar now
[15:24]  * barry takes out his pointed stick
[15:24]  * ddaa would sign up, but is still mentored
[15:24] <gmb> Ditto.
[15:25] <barry> cool, thanks
[15:26] <barry> how have you guys gotten cover letters and what do you think is working best?
[15:26] <barry> email? pastebin? something else?
[15:26] <salgado> email, please, together with diff
[15:26] <gmb> I've received one pastebinned one.
[15:26] <intellectronica> pastebin is great, except that it doesn't word-wrap
[15:26] <ddaa> Got and wrote a couple. I find pastebin (linked from pendingreviews) is the most convenient.
[15:26] <gmb> Not line-wrapped.
[15:27] <salgado> why do you guys find pastebin more convenient?
[15:27] <intellectronica> perhaps a wiki page would be best
[15:27] <gmb> I think pastebin helps because when you submit to PR you don't actually have a reviewer to email
[15:27] <barry> gmb: that's my biggest complaint about pastebinning
[15:27]  * BjornT agrees with salgado 
[15:27] <intellectronica> salgado: because you can reference it from the wiki
[15:27] <gmb> But I'd rather get emails.
[15:27]  * mwhudson mumbles something about tool support
[15:27]  * gmb points at mwhudson's mumbling.
[15:28] <ddaa> because it can be hyperlinked easily
[15:28]  * barry grumbles that no one likes his commit-to-branch idea ;)
[15:28] <barry> tool support == +1
[15:28]  * ddaa finds barry brains have a funny taste
[15:28] <gmb> barry: Since BRANCH.TODO was frowned upon...
[15:29] <jtv> barry: *I* like your commit-to-branch idea...
[15:29] <salgado> so, it seems like for reviewees the most convenient is pastebin/wiki
[15:29] <flacoste> i think email CC launchpad-reviews is bet
[15:29] <salgado> whereas for reviewers the best is email
[15:29] <flacoste> best
[15:30] <mwhudson> so the plan for tool support is that you'll say
[15:30] <mwhudson> bzr review-submit
[15:30] <PriceChild> cprov, the epic saga continues btw... source has now gone from pools, but the sums of sources an debs doesn't add up on my ppa page and on uploading 3.4, I get "Rejected: This sourcepackagerelease is already accepted in gutsy."
[15:30] <salgado> maybe we could tweak our pastebin to trigger an email from any paste?
[15:30] <gmb> 0.o
[15:30] <mwhudson> and the plugin will compute the diff, prompt you to edit a cover letter,
[15:31]  * gmb thinks about the number of mis-pastes his made
[15:31] <mwhudson> upload it to gmb's web thingy (which will allocate a reviewer)
[15:31] <gmb> Indeed.
[15:31] <mwhudson> and email the reviewer, launchpad reviews
[15:31] <mwhudson> the cover letter/diff will be visible through the web too
[15:31] <barry> mwhudson: will it take a switch to specify a cover letter file?
[15:31] <mwhudson> barry: oh yes
[15:32] <mwhudson> switches for diff, cover letter and to force a reviewer choice
[15:32] <cprov> PriceChild: on meeting, we can talk in 30 minutes, ok ?
[15:32] <barry> mwhudson: rock on.  it sounds dreamy
[15:32] <mwhudson> gmb: we should have a call some time to work out what needs to be done to deploy this
[15:32]  * barry clears mwhudson's plate so he can concentrate on this tool, even though he has no authority to do so
[15:32] <gmb> mwhudson: sure.
[15:33] <barry>    * Tool update
[15:33] <mwhudson> gmb: friday morning?
[15:33] <PriceChild> cprov, of course :) I'm not the most important thing in the world and have 3/4 months to get this done :P
[15:33] <gmb> mwhudson: Works for me.
[15:33] <barry> gmb and mwhudson you guys are awesome.  thanks for working on this!
[15:33] <barry> anything more on cover letter or tool?
[15:34] <BjornT> mwhudson: i think it'd be reasonable to do the client part, before doing the server part. just having a cover letter sent to launchpad-reviews would help.
[15:34] <mwhudson> BjornT: ok, that part's nearly ready
[15:34] <barry> BjornT: until the server is done, the tool could wordwrap the cover letter and pastebin it
[15:34] <mwhudson> i need to work on the configuration a bit
[15:34] <flacoste> I insist, cover letters should always be Cc to launchpad-reviews
[15:34] <BjornT> barry: well, i'd still prefer having it in my mail client, together with the diff
[15:34] <flacoste> (pastebin in addition is fine)
[15:35] <barry> flacoste: exactly
[15:35] <ddaa> no to automatic word-wrapping
[15:35] <ddaa> guys here should know how to product a properly hard-wrapped text document...
[15:35] <BjornT> yeah, everyone should use a editor that wraps the text for them
[15:35] <barry> ddaa: only word wrap the pastebin copy because pastebin R dumb.  don't wrap the email copy
[15:36] <barry> ah yeah, okay good point
[15:36] <barry> nm :)
[15:36] <barry> anything else?
[15:36] <barry> 5
[15:36] <barry> 4
[15:36] <barry> 3
[15:36] <barry> 2
[15:36] <barry> 1
[15:37] <barry>    * Death to [trivial]
[15:37] <barry> still controversial i think
[15:37] <barry> is there anything we can say here that isn't already on the email thread?
[15:37] <jtv> Have people mentioned the "clean this bit up in a trivial branch first" pattern?
[15:38] <mwhudson> i would like to hear SteveA_'s opinion
[15:38] <jtv> mwhudson: ...if his internet is working...
[15:38] <mwhudson> jtv: yeah
[15:39] <barry> yeah
[15:39]  * barry tries to end early :)
[15:39] <barry> anything more?
[15:39] <barry> 5
[15:39] <barry> 4
[15:39] <barry> 3
[15:39] <barry> 2
[15:39] <barry> 1
[15:39] <barry> anything not on the agenda people want to talk about?
[15:40] <barry> 5
[15:40] <barry> 4
[15:40] <barry> 3
[15:40] <barry> 2
[15:40] <barry> 1
[15:40] <barry> great, thanks everyone!
[15:40] <barry> MEETING ENDS
[15:40] <intellectronica> cheers, barry
[15:58] <cprov> PriceChild: ok, let's discuss your problem
[15:59] <PriceChild> So I tried uploading gizmod3.4 and it gave me the error above.
[15:59] <cprov> PriceChild: there is indeed this paranoid check, to avoid reusing the same version within the same archive
[15:59] <PriceChild> hehe
[15:59] <cprov> PriceChild: you can upload a new orig (with the same filename) once it is removed, but you have to bump the package version.
[16:00] <PriceChild> to ~ppa3 for example?
[16:00] <rick_h_> mrevell: quick question from the PPA session, is there a method for submitting issues with the build servers? Not really a bug though.
[16:00] <cprov> PriceChild: exactly
[16:00] <PriceChild> Thanks cprov, I'll try that now.
[16:00] <Hobbsee> rick_h_: what kind of issues?
[16:00] <rick_h_> one time I had a date/time issue with one of the builds and wasn't sure how best to report it
[16:00] <Hobbsee> like, the fact that they're busy?
[16:00] <cprov> PriceChild: ok, let me know the result
[16:00] <rick_h_> so 2 of the three passed, but the amd64 was failing due to date mismatches
[16:00] <cprov> rick_h_: was it recently ?
[16:01] <rick_h_> this was a while ago, I retried the build later and it got picked up by a different server and succeeded
[16:01] <rick_h_> cprov: it was a few weeks ago
[16:01] <cprov> rick_h_: because this issue seems to be fixed now
[16:01] <rick_h_> right, but in the future, what's the best place to submit those kinds of issues
[16:01] <cprov> rick_h_: right, you can retry the build.
[16:01] <rick_h_> since they're not really a bug
[16:01] <rick_h_> more of a trouble ticket item
[16:01] <Hobbsee> rick_h_: usually mention it in here, i think
[16:02] <rick_h_> ok, figured I'd check that I wasn't missing some better method
[16:03] <cyberix> I got an email regarding this bug -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xemacs21/+bug/4883
[16:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 4883 in xemacs21 "Info pages installed incorrectly" [Medium,Confirmed] 
[16:03] <cyberix> Now I'm trying to figure out why
[16:03] <cyberix> I don't think I have anything to do with the bug.
[16:04] <cyberix> My user name is "Toni Ruottu"
[16:04] <cyberix> Can someone help me to figure this out?
[16:04] <ddaa> What does the footer of the email says?
[16:04] <cyberix> Never mind :-D
[16:05] <cyberix> You received this bug notification because you are a member of Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe, which is a direct subscriber.
[16:05] <ddaa> Glad to be of service.
[16:05] <cyberix> I'm still not sure, if it makes any sense to send people like me emails like this
[16:06] <LaserJock> ddaa: that's a bit weird because that team is not sub'd to that bug
[16:06] <ubotu> New bug: #172596 in soyuz "cannot upload to ppa when behind a proxy/firewall" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172596
[16:06] <ddaa> LaserJock: it's probably subbed indirectly through team membership
[16:06] <LaserJock> ddaa: he is a part of ubuntu-universe-contributors but the team sub'd is ubuntu-universe-sponsors
[16:07] <LaserJock> ddaa: then shouldn't that show up?
[16:07] <LaserJock> ddaa: the team in the email is not sub'd to the bug
[16:10] <ddaa> actually, I cannot figure out why that email would be sent
[16:10] <ddaa> *shrug*
[16:12] <Hobbsee> activity log says that team was subscribed.
[16:12] <PriceChild> cprov, "Accepted: gizmod 3.4-0ubuntu1~ppa3 (source)" :D Thanks so much for your help.
[16:12] <Hobbsee> but the activity log doesn't appear to be a full record, as it doesn't show it removed again - yet it clearly is.
[16:12] <ddaa> Hobbsee: thanks for spotting this out
[16:12] <ddaa> bugactivity sucks
[16:13] <cprov> PriceChild: yay
[16:17] <LaserJock> ddaa: funny, I got the email too
[16:17] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: yeah, he's spammed teh entire revu group with it.
[16:17] <Hobbsee> *sigh*
[16:17] <LaserJock> looks like an LP problem
[16:18] <LaserJock> like the team was unsub'd but it didn't work :-)
[16:18] <LaserJock> or wait
[16:19] <LaserJock> that was this morning, I see it
[18:31] <ubotu> New bug: #172618 in soyuz "Some soyuz pages requires javascript to be enabled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172618
[18:34] <kiko> do they?
[18:40] <ubotu> New bug: #172619 in launchpad "Launchpad does not set a Message-ID header on outgoing emails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172619
[18:41] <LaserJock> kiko: get my email?
[18:41] <kiko> yes 
[18:42] <LaserJock> good
[18:42] <LaserJock> kiko: I also sent that list to ubuntu-devel as a followup so we'll see if anything comes of it :-)
[18:43] <kiko> LaserJock, very cool. thanks a lot for the help
[18:43] <LaserJock> np
[18:44] <LaserJock> kiko: if we could maybe get those first two fixed soonish it'd really help I think
[18:46] <kiko> one day at a time :)
[18:49]  * LaserJock watches the pot
[18:50] <ubotu> New bug: #172621 in soyuz "PPA +builds page doesn't auto-refresh" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172621
[19:34] <johnaaronrose> Is Gutsy ever going to have 2.6.23 kernel? 
[19:38] <elmo> johnaaronrose: you want #ubuntu
[21:26] <jam> Quick question, has anyone seen the little status messages be attached to the wrong bug page?
[21:26] <jam> I was uploading an attachment to 1 bug
[21:26] <jam> and then changed tabs to another
[21:27] <jam> and now the "Attachment foo added to bug" information message
[21:27] <jam> is shown on the second bug
[21:27] <jam> which confused me for a while (thinking I accidentally uploaded it to the wrong bug)
[21:30] <Fujitsu> jam: I suspect that the message will be shown on the first page view after the upload, so you'd have a small window where you could refresh another tab or so and get the message on the wrong one.
[21:31] <jam> I'm guessing it also can  happen if you do what I do sometimes
[21:31] <jam> which is hit submit
[21:31] <jam> and wait till you think it has finished
[21:31] <jam> and close the window
[21:31] <jam> since I don't really need to wait 3s for the page to fully refresh
[21:34] <mpt> jam, that happens occasionally
[21:34] <mpt> It was a choice between either doing that occasionally, or having session IDs attached to every URL you visit
[21:34] <mpt> iirc
[21:35] <mpt> so we chose the former
[21:36] <lifeless> jam: welcome to race conditions
[21:36] <lifeless> jam: please file a bug
[21:36] <lifeless> jam: I warned that this would happen when the status code was written.
[21:37] <lifeless> mpt: it wasn't a boolean choice.
[21:37] <lifeless> Fujitsu: ye, your suspicion on how it works is correct
[21:41] <mpt> lifeless, we could have benefitted from your insight in bug 5412, then :-)
[21:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 5412 in launchpad "LP notification parameters make URLs skanky" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/5412 - Assigned to Stuart Bishop (stub)
[21:42] <lifeless> mpt: as a trival example, you know the previous URL through referrer in most cases
[21:43] <lifeless> mpt: so using referrer as a key into the session to decide if to show a message will prevent it showing on the wrong page, unless the user disables referrer.
[21:43] <lifeless> mpt: you also know the url you are sending them to with the redirect-after-post, so you can use that as a key too
[21:51] <Flare183> When importing my opengpg key, how do I go about uploading it to a key-server
[22:05] <ubotu> New bug: #172668 in malone "status messages get attached to the wrong page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172668
[22:06] <aclark> everyone!
[22:07] <ajmitch> noone?
[22:16] <Fujitsu> Flare183: There should be instructions on the wiki, but you need to push to keyserver.ubuntu.com (ie. gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-key yourkeyid)
[22:20] <Fujitsu> Flare183: See https://help.launchpad.net/ImportingYourOpenPGPKey
[22:34] <Flare183> ok
[22:39] <lamont> bigjools cprov-out: there was apparently at one time a restriction that: backporting a newer version of package FOO to (say) dapper, meant that future dapper-security releases had to be newer than the version in -backports. (or so I hear...)
[22:39] <lamont> with LP now driving sources.list for builds, is that still the case?
[22:40]  * lamont -> kids, will read scrollback when I get hoem
[22:42] <Fujitsu> lamont: As I mentioned in #ubuntu-devel, I've done a number of security uploads with normal versions, where things have also been backported.
[23:35] <Balaams_Miracle> I've run into a problem with Rosetta, don't know if it's a known problem, but i've come across a package that (according to LP) has 9 untranslated strings, but filtering for untranslated strings or strings that need review do not show any stings at all.
[23:36] <Balaams_Miracle> The URL to the package is https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/openoffice.org/+pots/sch-dlg/nl/+translate?batch=10
[23:39] <lifeless> Balaams_Miracle: I don't remember seeing a bug like that discussed;
[23:39] <lifeless> Balaams_Miracle: could you file  abug ?
[23:41] <Balaams_Miracle> I could, but i find it very had to describe the problem in just a few words. That's really a handicap of mine. I just can't be concise
[23:41] <lifeless> your two line summary is fine
[23:41] <lifeless> if you're worried about the title, what about 'no strings shown when there are unstranslated strings'
[23:42] <Balaams_Miracle> It is? Hmmm... Let me try and muster up the courage then.
[23:42] <Balaams_Miracle> Yeah, sounds like a pretty accurate description. Thanks!
[23:44] <Fujitsu> I think I saw a reference to a similar bug a couple of days back.
[23:46] <Fujitsu> Bug #165258, perhaps.
[23:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165258 in update-manager "upgrade to gutsy error python 2.5" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165258
[23:46] <Fujitsu> Er, no.
[23:46] <Fujitsu> Bug #165218, perhaps.
[23:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165218 in rosetta "Empty translations are counted as completed translations" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165218 - Assigned to Carlos Perelló Marín (carlos)
[23:46] <Balaams_Miracle> I'll go and take a look
[23:50] <Balaams_Miracle> Fujitsu: That bug looks like just the opposite. The peron who reported 165218 says that untranslated strings are counted as translated. In my case, Rosetta reports that there are untranslated strings, but the filters don't show them.
[23:51] <Fujitsu> I would be surprised if they were unrelated.
[23:53] <Fujitsu> Balaams_Miracle: Was this bug present a week ago?
[23:53] <Balaams_Miracle> Fujitsu: I've just taken a look at the page where their problem occurs, but now it looks like the same problem. There are 60 strings in total, Rosetta claims that 60 are untranslated. Their problem is even worse
[23:54] <Fujitsu> Balaams_Miracle: On the other hand, your totals add up to 100%.
[23:55] <Balaams_Miracle> Fujitsu: I haven't been very active lately, but i don't remember seeing this bug when i was translating the last time (last friday)
[23:55] <lifeless> file the bug, for sure :)
[23:55] <Fujitsu> It looks like a different one, so file it, yep.
[23:55] <Balaams_Miracle> Fujitsu: I don't understand. How do my totals add up to 100%?
[23:55] <ubotu> New bug: #172685 in malone "activity log doesn't display unsubscribe events" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172685
[23:56] <Fujitsu> Balaams_Miracle: The unstranslated, unchanged and changed values in the graphish thing add up to 100%, whereas for the other bug it is 200%.
[23:57] <Fujitsu> Urgh, -s