[13:17] <cprov> guys, anyone interested in the PPA 101 agenda, please add your suggestions in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CelsoProvidelo/PPAClassAgenda
[13:40] <ian_brasil> cprov: you want questions written there?
[13:40] <cprov> ian_brasil: yes, please
[13:41] <pleia2> cprov: -classroom has a mailing list now, feel free to send out the link there too: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-classroom
[13:49] <cprov> pleia2: good point, sent.
[14:57]  * Hobbsee waves
[15:00]  * cprov waves to Hobbsee
[15:01] <Hobbsee> :)
[15:02] <mrevell> Welcome to this Launchpad Personal Packages Archives Q&A session!
[15:02] <mrsno> hi!
[15:02] <mrevell> Over the next hour you'll get the chance to ask whatever questions you want about using Launchpad's PPAs with Ubuntu.
[15:02] <mrevell> You'll also find out what we have planned for PPAs in the near future. Plus the chance to nominate your top PPA bug.
[15:03] <mrevell> If you want to get up to speed with what PPAs are, check out our quick-start guide at:
[15:03] <mrevell> https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
[15:03] <mrevell> To answer your questions we have:
[15:03] <mrevell> cprov - Celso Providelo - one of the Launchpad developers behind PPA.
[15:03] <mrevell> Hobbsee - Sarah Hobbs - a member of Ubuntu MOTU and Core Developer teams.
[15:04] <mrevell> And joining us soon will be LaserJock - Jordan Mantha - a member of the Ubuntu MOTU team.
[15:04] <mrevell> This is a one hour session lasting from 15.00 - 16.00 UTC. After the session I'll post the logs at:
[15:04] <mrevell> https://help.launchpad.net/PPA/QAndA20071128
[15:04] <mrevell> We'll be following cprov's agenda, which you can find at:
[15:04] <mrevell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CelsoProvidelo/PPAClassAgenda
[15:05] <mrevell> more or less
[15:05] <mrevell> :)
[15:05] <mrevell> Let's start with "Coming features in 1.1.12"
[15:05] <mrevell> cprov: Would you like to take each item and briefly explain what they are please? We can take questions as cprov talks.
[15:05] <cprov> mrevell: sure
[15:06] <mrevell> Great! Thanks.
[15:07] <cprov> I'd like to describe some of the features that will be released in 1.1.12
[15:07] <cprov> around 20th december or earlier
[15:08] <cprov> we will start to ensure PPA size quotas
[15:08] <cprov> which are set to 1Gb by default
[15:09] <cprov> the size can be increased by request and will be judge ad-hoc
[15:10] <cprov> The next major feature is "improved buildfarm performance"
[15:10] <Hobbsee> cprov: a)  when will delete happen, and b)  how can we stay under-size, when we can't remove packages that we no longer want?
[15:11] <cprov> Hobbsee: currently deletions are done by request
[15:11] <cprov> Hobbsee: you have to post a question in launchpad-project providing the package names you want deleted and it will be addressed asap
[15:12] <Hobbsee> cprov: right, OK
[15:12] <cprov> Hobbsee: we plan to provide UI support for it  during January cycle.
[15:12] <mrevell> ACTION: add delete instruction to quick-start guide
[15:13] <cprov> yet about Builds in PPA, we now have 9 dedicated buildd machines for PPA
[15:14] <cprov> 3 for each supported architecture (i386, amd64 and lpia)
[15:15] <cprov> and it clearly diminished the bottle-neck effects as you probably noticed.
[15:16] <cprov> also for 1.1.12 we will allow source copies by request
[15:17] <cprov> users can request copies from other PPAs (allowing collaborative work across PPA)
[15:18] <Hobbsee> what are the turn-around times for these copy requests?
[15:18] <cprov> or copies from different suites inside the same PPA (backporting, for instance)
[15:19] <cprov> Hobbsee: similar to the "deletion requests", until we provide UI, then the users can do it themselves.
[15:19] <Hobbsee> cprov: which is roughly how long, between the request, and being actioned, assuming all the required info is there?
[15:20] <cprov> Hobbsee: I can't say for sure, I'd say not longer than 24 hours
[15:20] <Hobbsee> right
[15:20] <mrevell> Although, obviously, in busier times it may take longer.
[15:21] <cprov> right, more details about 1.1.12 and PPAs are available in https://edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.milestone%3Alist=90&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.tag=ppa&field.has_cve.used=
[15:21] <cprov> (eek, long url, sorry)
[15:21] <cprov> mrevell: I'm done for 1.1.12 features
[15:22] <mrevell> Thanks very much cprov! I'd like us to leave the vote until the end as I'm sure people here are itching to ask questions! If you have a question, please start it with QUESTION:
[15:23] <mrevell> Questions anyone?
[15:24] <cprov> mrevell: there was a question posted in the agenda by ian_brasil. QUESTION: How can I use the PPA behind a firewall?
[15:24] <mrevell> Thanks cprov.
[15:25] <arzajac> QUESTION:  What tools are needed to use a PPA?  I notice that you need dput.  Anything else?
[15:25] <ian_brasil> cprov: yes, is this possible?
[15:25] <mrevell> cprov: Would you like to answer the firewall question and then we can take arzajac's question.
[15:27] <cprov> ian_brasil: I can't see any problems related with firewall, since your machine always work like a client
[15:27] <mrevell> ian_brasil: Have you tried it and had a problem?
[15:28] <ian_brasil> cprov: yes..it *does not* work...i am behind a firewall and dput times out
[15:28] <mrevell> ian_brasil: Is it possible that your firewall blocks FTP traffic?
[15:28] <ian_brasil> yes it does...any idea how i can work around this?
[15:28] <bigjools> can dput be configure to use a proxy?
[15:28] <bigjools> configured*
[15:29] <Hobbsee> you can use multiple ways to upload files with dput
[15:29] <Hobbsee> From the man page, these include
[15:29] <Hobbsee>  Currently  dput supports ftp, scp,
[15:29] <Hobbsee>        rsync, http, https, and local. The method scripts have been split  from
[15:29] <Hobbsee>        the   main  script  so  it  is  easy  to  add  new  methods.   Look  in
[15:29] <Hobbsee>        /usr/share/dput/ for examples.
[15:29] <cprov> Hobbsee: but PPA only accepts FTP atm :(
[15:30] <Hobbsee> cprov: ah.  well, then, ignore me.
[15:30] <mrevell> cprov: Do we have plans to accept other methods?
[15:30] <mrevell> cprov: Would PPA accept FTP on a non-standard port? That might get round a firewall, possibly.
[15:30] <ian_brasil> should i submit a bug to get http implemented?
[15:31] <cprov> mrevell: yes, there is a plan to add sftp support
[15:31] <arzajac> A web interface would be great.  Browse for files and upload them...
[15:31] <mrevell> ian_brasil: Yes, please do submit a bug report.
[15:31] <ian_brasil> mrevell: OK i will
[15:32] <mrevell> ian_brasil: I'm sorry that we're unable to help you get PPA working immediately.
[15:32] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Would you like to take arzajac's question?
[15:33] <ian_brasil> i have my PPA working just that I cannot add to it from work...i have to go travelling to upload !!
[15:33] <Hobbsee> yes - want to repaste the question?
 QUESTION:  What tools are needed to use a PPA?  I notice that you need dput.  Anything else?
[15:33] <Hobbsee> arzajac: to actually build the source package, you'll need to have a variety of tools, based on what the package is.  these include debhelper ( or cdbs), sometimes a form of patch system, or a specific tool that the package uses to build.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide is always a useful guide, and explains a lot of these build tools quite reasonably.  The errors are faily obvious, often saying which file cannot be found.
[15:34] <Hobbsee> #ubuntu-motu also offers some help with build queries.
[15:34] <Hobbsee> If you're looking for more packaging help, to learn to use these tools more effectively, you might consider coming to one of the Packaging Q&A sessions, which tend to focus on how to package, and how to use the tools themselves.
[15:35] <mrevell> Do you know when the next Packaging Q&A session is?
[15:35] <Hobbsee> The next one should be in a couple of weeks, i think.  looking for a more concrete date now
[15:35] <Hobbsee> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Events
[15:35] <Hobbsee> Every friday, 1300 UTC.
[15:36] <Hobbsee> It appears that the next packaging 101 session is at Thu 13th Dec 2007 16.00 - 17.30 UTC
[15:36] <Hobbsee> this will pick a package, where everyone can follow along in the building of it, and for how to fix things in it.
[15:37] <mrevell> Great, thanks Hobbsee!
[15:37] <mrevell> arzajac: Does that answer your question?
[15:37] <arzajac> That's great.  Perhaps the PackagingGuide documentation can mention PPAs.
[15:37] <arzajac> Yes, thanks.
[15:37] <Hobbsee> arzajac: it's slowly getting updated.
[15:37] <mrevell> Any other questions?
[15:38] <Hobbsee> A question commonly asked is how someone builds the same package for multiple releases.
[15:39] <jcastro> QUESTION: Currently to add a ppa I have to add it via sources.list. Is there a plan for something easier like a button i can click on or something like that?
[15:39] <mrevell> cprov: Would you like to take jcastro's question?
[15:39] <Hobbsee> jcastro: that has been discussed somewhat in the ubuntu development community, and is so far undecided, due to possible QA issues.
[15:40] <cprov> jcastro: yes, there is a plan to ship a AptFirefoxFileHandler, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptFirefoxFileHandler
[15:40] <jcastro> thanks!
[15:40] <PriceChild> apt:// links are already implemented aren't they?
[15:40] <LaserJock> yes
[15:41] <LaserJock> but I don't think enabling repos is
[15:41] <cprov> jcastro: but it's not yet scheduled for implementation, so user-pressure is welcome.
[15:41] <PriceChild> ah ty LaserJock
[15:41] <mrevell> Thanks for the question jcastro.
[15:42] <Hobbsee> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-September/024464.html and follow on describes some of the issues to this in more detail, if anyone was interested.
[15:42] <mrevell> thanks Hobbsee.
[15:43] <mrevell> Do we have any other questions? Don't be shy :)
[15:43]  * Hobbsee only eats people on mondays.
[15:43] <rick_h_> QUESTION: where are plans for stats? Help me know if I'm wasting my time?
[15:43] <cprov> rick_h_: ehe, great question
[15:44] <cprov> rick_h_: well, usage-stats depends on having a server-side smarter than plain-apache
[15:45] <rick_h_> cprov: but straight download stats can be had via apache
[15:45] <cprov> rick_h_: we have been discussing this lately and soon we will publish the possible alternatives
[15:45] <rick_h_> cprov: ok, thanks. Probably the biggest thing I miss moving things to PPA/LP in general.
[15:46] <arzajac> Question:  What about authentication keys?  Do users have to apt-key each PPA they add to their sources.list?
[15:46] <cprov> rick_h_: right, you are welcome to file a bug about it
[15:47] <cprov> arzajac: this implementation is also in the pipeline, check https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/125103
[15:48] <cprov> rick_h_: we are fighting to the idea of having a single key for all PPAs, but also not keen about creating new privates signing keys for each PPA.
[15:49] <mrevell> cprov: was that meant for arzajac?
[15:49] <arzajac> I see.
[15:49] <cprov> mrevell: yes, sorry
[15:50] <Hobbsee> at the end of hte day, keys shouldn't be to hide a scary warning - it should be making you say "now, do i trust the maker of this package?"
[15:50] <mrevell> Thanks Hobbsee.
[15:50] <mrevell> Okay, we're coming to the end of the session. Are there any last questions?
[15:52] <mrevell> In that case, let's move to the final item, which is nominating your top PPA bug.
[15:52] <Hobbsee> ooo ooo!
[15:52] <mrevell> You can find the list of PPA bugs at:
[15:52] <mrevell> https://launchpad.net/soyuz/+bugs?field.tag=ppa
[15:53] <mrevell> If you don't have on right now, please join us on #launchpad-users to tell us about it.
[15:53] <mrevell> Hobbsee: what's yours?
[15:53] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/136399
[15:53] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/139619
[15:53] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/172587
[15:53] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/136413
[15:54] <Hobbsee> and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/165230
[15:54] <LaserJock> :-)
[15:54] <cprov> Hobbsee: clever
[15:55] <cprov> 139619 is fixed in my emacs ;)
[15:55] <Hobbsee> so, maintainer field mangling, so it thinks ubuntu motu's done the package, when they haven't, copy and remove UI, not having to upload the .orig.tar.gz, letting ppas depend on other ppas, and creating correct packages
[15:55] <Hobbsee> cprov: excellent!
[15:56] <mrevell> Okay, well, we've come to the end of the hour. Thank you everyone for joining us.
[15:57] <mrevell> If you'd like to discuss PPAs more, join us on the launchpad-users list at:
[15:57] <mrevell> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/launchpad-users
[15:57] <mrevell> Thanks cprov, Hobbsee, LaserJock
[15:57] <mrevell> thanks everyone for your questions.
[15:57] <mrevell> SESSION ENDS! :)
[15:58] <mrsno> thanks a lot mrevell , Hobbsee and all
[15:58] <Hobbsee> mrsno: :)
[15:58] <rick_h_> I get an empty room for #launchpad-users
[15:59] <LaserJock> rick_h_: that's the mailing list
[15:59] <LaserJock> rick_h_: the IRC is just #launchpad
[15:59] <rick_h_> oic, he used # so I thought it was a room
[16:04] <mrevell> Sorry, I made a mistake putting the # on there!
[16:13] <jcastro> thanks guys!