[08:06] <kraut> moin
[11:06] <Ziroday> @schedule Singapore
[11:06] <ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 29 Nov 22:00: Desktop Team Development | 30 Nov 00:00: Community Council | 02 Dec 03:00: Art Team | 05 Dec 00:00: Server Team meeting
[12:07] <flint> ogra, Nice collection of Edubuntu video by the guy in Ohio...
[12:08] <ogra> yeah
[12:09] <flint> ogra, you did good.  BTW is the Edubuntu mafia meeting? (I have learned to distrust the Fridge :^)
[12:10] <ogra> no idea when, but it should be today :)
[12:10] <stgraber> I'm not sure but I think this one is a late one
[12:12] <flint> stgraber, thanks, I can get to the early ones, the late ones elude me...
[12:14] <flint> ogra, yea you gotta run with those videos... Maybe sync the docs up with the video?
[12:14] <flint> ogra, you know me, just here to cause trouble!
[12:16] <ogra> flint, dtrask already said he'd look into fleshing out the wiki
[15:59]  * bdmurray looks around
[15:59]  * heno waves to bdmurray
[16:00] <pedro_> good day!
[16:00] <nand> hi!
[16:00] <heno> morning!
[16:00] <ogasawara> hello :)
[16:00] <calc> hello
[16:00] <heno> Hi all
[16:00] <bdmurray> greetings and salutations!
[16:01] <heno> calc: are we clashing with a platform meeting again? :/
[16:01] <heno> or are you here for QA?
[16:01] <calc> oh i am probably in the wrong channel, oops :)
[16:02] <heno> :)
[16:02]  * calc runs away ;-)
[16:02] <heno> how is the NM bug day going?
[16:03] <pedro_> heno: is going well https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20071128
[16:03] <pedro_> a bit slow
[16:03] <heno> right, I'll join in as well after this
[16:03] <bdmurray> well I just woke up
[16:03] <ogasawara> I'm just getting started for the day here
[16:03] <heno> let do a short meeting then
[16:03] <bdmurray> pedro_: do you have a stock reply for new ones?
[16:04] <heno> indeed, team OR is quite time shifted
[16:04]  * bdmurray is happy to move to a better tz
[16:04] <heno> (says heno sitting nearly on the prime meridian ;) )
[16:04] <pedro_> bdmurray: no i don't, I've just asked for the log files and point some other to debugging crashed procedures
[16:05] <heno> ok, let's start
[16:05] <heno> #startmeeting
[16:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:05. The chair is heno.
[16:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:05] <heno> [TOPIC] UDS activity report - I (heno) should write a summary of the QA sessions at UDS (but I wasn't there) Could those who were please send me 2-3 lines on the main results in QA from UDS?
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  UDS activity report - I (heno) should write a summary of the QA sessions at UDS (but I wasn't there) Could those who were please send me 2-3 lines on the main results in QA from UDS?
[16:06] <heno> just a few comments here in the meeting would be good even so I can scrape those together
[16:06] <heno> I've been trying to pull this out of the air, but failing :/
[16:06] <bdmurray> I've been quite impressed with how "TEST CASE:" in the description is taking off
[16:07] <heno> oh, excellent!
[16:08] <heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs says the most important stuff really
[16:08] <heno> (now updated with short descriptions)
[16:08] <heno> pedro_, ogasawara: any major take-away points from UDS?
[16:09] <heno> besides the value of meeting everyone
[16:09] <ogasawara> heno: for me just the feedback on the specs was the most important as well as networking with some of the non-canonical folks
[16:09] <pedro_> well i do like a lot the graphs i'm really impressive with new ones :-)
[16:10] <heno> ok. btw, this is intended for a post-UDS write-up to the community
[16:10] <heno> agreed, much more clear
[16:10] <heno> ok, thanks, I'll work from that
[16:11] <heno> [TOPIC] Status of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+nominations
[16:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status of https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+nominations
[16:11] <bdmurray> heno: I wrote mdz some bullet points for the UDS closing blurb and will forward them to you
[16:11] <heno> I promised an update on this
[16:12] <heno> bdmurray: excellent, just what I need
[16:12] <heno> The nominated bugs for Gutsy are 290 now, down from 340 when I first looked at this
[16:12] <heno> so a bit slow going still
[16:13] <heno> ogasawara: Is it correct that I should basically close all 2.6.22 bugs as wontfix at this point?
[16:13] <stgraber> hello
[16:13] <bdmurray> I might be able to whip up a query that could help with the milestoned ones
[16:13] <heno> (using a copy of your stock response)
[16:13] <ogasawara> heno: pretty much unless they are security or major show stoppers
[16:13] <heno> hello stgraber!
[16:13] <pedro_> hey stephane!
[16:14] <heno> ogasawara: ok, I've been too soft I guess
[16:14] <bdmurray> I think with the 2.6.22 it would be best to ask them to test with Alpha 1 when it comes out
[16:14] <heno> I'll add for them to email ogasawara with any complaints ;)
[16:14] <ogasawara> :)
[16:15] <heno> bdmurray: agree, though that is still 2.6.22 though right? or do we have .23 or .24 now?
[16:15] <heno> ogasawara: ^
[16:15] <heno> what is the current hardy kernel?
[16:15] <ogasawara> 2.6.22
[16:15] <ogasawara> I think, just a sec
[16:15] <bdmurray> There is a 2.6.24 package now though
[16:15] <bdmurray> with 0 bugs!
[16:16] <pedro_> I'm using 2.6.22-14-generic on hardy
[16:16] <heno> and possibly 4 users
[16:16] <bdmurray> and 0 packages
[16:16] <heno> ah
[16:16] <heno> perhaps ask people to test when .24 is being distributed
[16:16] <heno> and file against it
[16:17] <ogasawara> yup, I've tagged them hardy-kernel-candidate
[16:17] <heno> ogasawara: are you proceeding with that on the remaining Gutsy bugs?
[16:17] <ogasawara> heno: yes
[16:18] <heno> ok, cool
[16:18] <heno> [TOPIC] Specs approved for Hardy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Specs approved for Hardy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs
[16:18] <heno> all the specs on that page are now approved
[16:19] <heno> how should we track their progress within the team? Make it a regular topic in these meetings?
[16:20] <stgraber> Yes, maybe having a spec status topic every 2 meetings
[16:20] <ogasawara> sounds find with me
[16:20] <ogasawara> s/find/fine
[16:20] <pedro_> stgraber: +1
[16:21] <bdmurray> +1
[16:21] <heno> right. We also have a clash with the platform team for this meeting time+location every two weeks
[16:22] <heno> that again raises the case for changing meeting times every 2 meetings
[16:22] <heno> so that more people can attend
[16:22] <heno> I'd propose a later meeting time every two weeks
[16:23] <heno> attendance can be optional for those in awkward tz, like liw
[16:23] <pedro_> how much later? a couple of hours?
[16:23] <heno> right, stgraber you wanted 1800 or 1900?
[16:24] <stgraber> 1900 is better, 1800 is ok
[16:24] <heno> pedro_: does 1900 work for you?
[16:25] <pedro_> heno: sure i don't have any problem with it :-)
[16:25] <heno> ok, cool. I'll email liw about this (he's at a debian QA summit this week)
[16:26]  * dholbach hugs the QA Mafia - you guys deserve it. :-)
[16:26]  * heno hugs dholbach :)
[16:26] <dholbach> :-)
[16:26] <heno> ogasawara, bdmurray: you ok with 1900?
[16:27] <ogasawara> heno: yup, works for me
[16:27] <bdmurray> heno: no problems where
[16:27] <heno> [AGREED] every other meeting, starting next week will be st 1900 UTC
[16:27] <MootBot> AGREED received:  every other meeting, starting next week will be st 1900 UTC
[16:27] <bdmurray> . . . I am?
[16:28] <heno> watch out for glitches in the matrix
[16:28] <heno> [TOPIC] Alpha 1 ISO testing - There is no freeze this time, but the key images should get a basic sanity test (basically check that they boot)
[16:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 1 ISO testing - There is no freeze this time, but the key images should get a basic sanity test (basically check that they boot)
[16:28] <bdmurray> deja vu
[16:28] <heno> all over again
[16:28] <stgraber> btw, fridge should be updated (that way I'll have them added to my evolution, ical rocks)
[16:29] <heno> the fridge has a poor memory
[16:29] <heno> as do I, which makes for a poor combination
[16:29] <heno> any volunteers to make sure the fridge is updated with this?
[16:30] <heno> it remembers 4 weeks at a time or something
[16:31] <pedro_> we need to contact corey?
[16:31] <heno> ok, I'll email the editors and see if that's improved
[16:31] <pedro_> ah ok
[16:31] <heno> the editors address I think
[16:32] <heno> ok, alpha 1 testing
[16:33] <heno> just pinged slangasek to get his view on what sort of testing level we want for this
[16:33] <heno> and when it's estimated due
[16:33] <heno> mhz: greetings!
[16:34] <stgraber> ok, I'm renamming some milestones on the tracker and will add the Hardy Alpha 1 one just after that
[16:34] <mhz> hey heno!
[16:34] <heno> stgraber: great thanks
[16:35] <heno> I'll ask steve when I catch him and post to the QA list
[16:35] <stgraber> as we'll now use Alpha and no funny names, it'll be : Hardy Alpha X and I'm renamming Gutsy's to Gutsy Tribe X
[16:35] <heno> bug again, we'll just do some light testing of this one
[16:35] <heno> and hour or so of work from each of us on Friday/Monday should do
[16:36] <heno> any other topics?
[16:37] <bdmurray> I wanted to mention a tip I rediscoverd
[16:37] <stgraber> I had a phone call with nand (Nicolas) and we decided that we'll try to have a working improved QA-Poll and QA-Tracker for early 2008
[16:37]  * nand waves
[16:37] <heno> stgraber, nand: sounds good
[16:38] <heno> bdmurray: go ahead
[16:38] <stgraber> currently all the work is done in a devel branch, that's lot of work for re-organizing everything and there will be a lot of things that will be broken for some time there
[16:38] <heno> right
[16:38] <bdmurray> So I've stopped assigning bugs to myself that are Incomplete but then it becomes more challenging to find bugs that are Incomplete and 4 weeks old  and without a response
[16:39] <bdmurray> Unless you have a specific package to query on then you can do something like 'bugnumbers -p linux-source-2.6.22 --status Incomplete --lc="u:brian-murray&d:2007-10-26"
[16:40] <heno> where --lc is 'last comment' I take it
[16:40] <bdmurray> heno: that is correct
[16:41] <bdmurray> This could be handy 4 weeks after today with n-m bugs
[16:42] <heno> indeed, but with no package?
[16:42] <heno> the problem becomes churn time I guess
[16:43] <bdmurray> The janitor should do this automatically someday . . .
[16:43] <heno> bdmurray: have you filed a wishlist bug for that?
[16:43] <bdmurray> In regards to "no package" if you mean bugs without a package there are ways around it
[16:44] <heno> no, I mean when you don't want to specify a pkg
[16:45] <heno> ok, I think we are done
[16:45] <bdmurray> I haven't tried it yet but "-l https://bugs.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/+commentedbugs" instead of -p should work
[16:46] <bdmurray> heno: what is the status of qa.ubuntu.com?
[16:46] <heno> bdmurray: in limbo (as always). I'll go to London on Tuesday and try to corner the IS team :)
[16:47] <heno> we are just waiting for a dedicated server
[16:47] <heno> #endmeeting
[16:47] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:47.
[16:48] <heno> stgraber asks me every week, and I rarely have good answers :(
[16:48] <stgraber> :)
[16:48] <bdmurray> when I talked to elmo at UDS he thought it was pretty straight forward
[16:48] <heno> but I don't know of any blockers now apart from IS time and attention
[16:49] <heno> bdmurray: it is!
[16:50] <bdmurray> heno: the "-l" bit worked thanks!
[16:50] <bdmurray> It seems there are some I can close
[16:51] <heno> cool
[16:52]  * heno goes to write up a meeting summary while it's fresh
[16:52] <bdmurray> Do we have a package for next Wednesday?
[16:52] <bdmurray> Maybe ubiquity or Xorg?
[16:52] <pedro_> which one have more bugs at the moment?
[16:52]  * heno half-jokingly suggests https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+nominations
[16:53] <bdmurray> xorg has 205 new
[16:53] <heno> that question should perhaps be a regular topic at the meeting too
[16:53] <bdmurray> ubiquity 350
[16:53] <pedro_> let's go for ubiquity then
[16:53] <bdmurray> that seems to settle that one
[16:54] <bdmurray> I'm waiting on one other possibilty for next week with the US LoCo Education stuff
[16:54] <bdmurray> But if that doesn't pan out then we'll do ubiquity
[16:54] <ogasawara> bdmurray: what channel is the US LoCo triage thing tonight?
[16:54] <heno> if so let's make sure Evan is notified so he can be around
[16:54] <bdmurray> ogasawara: #ubuntu-us
[16:55] <heno> was asac informed of today's bugday?
[16:55] <stgraber> yes
[16:55] <heno> ok good
[16:55] <bdmurray> I'll make a wider announcement for next week tomorrow or Friday
[16:56] <bdmurray> The last 2 were rather short notice
[16:57] <stgraber> bdmurray: btw, about network-manager what do you think of adding a "vpn" tag ? as the network-manager can also be used as VPN client and then ~20% of the bugs are related to the VPN part
[16:57] <bdmurray> stgraber: that sounds great!  could you add it to the 20071128 wiki?
[16:58] <stgraber> sure
[20:01] <highvoltage> *bong*
[20:01]  * RichEd waves to highvoltage ogra LaserJock stgraber 
[20:02] <RichEd> and hi effie_jayx
[20:02] <effie_jayx> RichEd,  ;)
[20:02] <LaserJock> o/
[20:02]  * highvoltage also waves and says hi to all the edubuntero's
[20:02]  * RichEd grabs his tea while we wait for the others to surface
[20:03] <LaserJock> man, somehow I can't seem to upload a package under 30MB :/
[20:04] <highvoltage> you like to work with big packages?
[20:04]  * RichEd winks to highvoltage ;)
[20:04] <highvoltage> it's not always the size of a package that ocunts
[20:05]  * highvoltage could've delivered it better if he was more awake first time
[20:05]  * LaserJock was gonna say something like "you would know" but decides not to
[20:05] <highvoltage> hey!!!
[20:05] <RichEd> highvoltage: was that misspelling above freudian ?
[20:05] <RichEd> sounds irish
[20:05] <RichEd> ogra: ding ?
[20:05] <LaserJock> anyway...
[20:05] <highvoltage> RichEd: oops, I haven't even noticed, no just uncordinated fingers
[20:06] <LaserJock> why are our Edubuntu meetings alway go downhill when highvoltage is around?
[20:06] <LaserJock> s/are/do/
[20:06] <RichEd> it's the shock
[20:07] <highvoltage> *bzzzt*
[20:07] <LaserJock> must be something happens when two south african's get together on IRC
[20:07] <highvoltage> ogratjie!!!
[20:07] <RichEd> well if highvoltage is tired, and ogra is not in ... let's start with community so highvoltage can fall asleep sooner
[20:07] <highvoltage> LaserJock: you should see our local lug channel!
[20:07] <RichEd> highvoltage: tell us about the drupal site
[20:08] <highvoltage> RichEd: new'ish theming based on fridge theme is at http://jono.co.za/drupal
[20:08] <highvoltage> I want to put it on the edubuntu.org site, but awaiting on Znarl/elmo just to fix some simple permissions
[20:08] <highvoltage> (feel free to nudge them on, there is an issue for this on RT)
[20:08] <RichEd> highvoltage: and will the existing content all fit into the new theme ?
[20:08] <highvoltage> then it could get wrapped over the current edubuntu.org
[20:08] <RichEd> any reworking required ?
[20:09] <highvoltage> RichEd: most of it, only minor adjustments will have to be made
[20:09] <highvoltage> RichEd: the front page will have some quick remaking, with some inspiration from the xubuntu.org site and ubuntu.com
[20:09] <RichEd> and on a sustaining interest, should we rework some of the front pages to give updated content and new language ...
[20:10] <RichEd> otherwise people may see the new theme as a paint job over the old  body
[20:10] <highvoltage> RichEd: but as soon as I have that permissions right again, I cna do the initial facelisft
[20:10] <highvoltage> RichEd: well, pips1 has always said that we should get the frontpage a dynamic page
[20:10] <RichEd> may as well use the new look & feel to launch new refreshed content
[20:10] <highvoltage> RichEd: I think we're at a stage where we're ready for that
[20:11]  * LaserJock wants to see the youtube videos on  the front page
[20:11] <RichEd> so ... when do you think you'll be ready to go with the new theme, and then we can work towards that date for content revamping  ?
[20:11] <highvoltage> LaserJock: seriously? do you have any candidate videos?
[20:11] <RichEd> LaserJock: me no like youtube video screens on a default page
[20:11] <LaserJock> highvoltage: yes, somebody did like 10 videos that are awesome
[20:12] <LaserJock> RichEd: no?
[20:12] <RichEd> but a high prominence link to them ... yes
[20:12] <LaserJock> but people want bling!! :-)
[20:12] <highvoltage> RichEd: we were ready the past weekend. we can get going as soon as the canonical-sysadmins spent 2 mins on that server
[20:12] <LaserJock> nothing says "serious professional OS" like youtube videos on the frontpage
[20:12] <LaserJock> ;-)
[20:12] <highvoltage> LaserJock: perhaps a big videos-button on the frontpage that contain embedded videos?
[20:13] <highvoltage> LaserJock: hah
[20:13] <RichEd> we can go with a vote ... but i have a hangup about 7000 feet long pages on myspace with 345 youtube screens
[20:13] <LaserJock> highvoltage: yeah, I've done it with Fridge
[20:13] <RichEd> makes my firefox slow downnnnnn
[20:13] <LaserJock> RichEd: well, it can be done right you know
[20:13] <highvoltage> RichEd: one of Jane's pages?
[20:13]  * highvoltage ducks
[20:13] <LaserJock> hehe
[20:13] <RichEd> highvoltage: she is next to me ... bust dude
[20:13] <highvoltage> hehe!
[20:14] <highvoltage> LaserJock: what are these big uploads? kde-edu?
[20:14] <RichEd> highvoltage: > as soon as the canonical-sysadmins spent 2 mins on that server < you mean it will change when they do, or is that a "staging server" test ?
[20:14] <LaserJock> I did gcompris
[20:15] <LaserJock> apparently I screwed up gcompris for gutsy
[20:15] <highvoltage> RichEd: when they do it, I can upload that theme, will take about 5 minutes max, then another 20 mins or so just making sure everything fits in
[20:15] <LaserJock> and left it without translations or something like that
[20:15] <LaserJock> so I'm getting everything fixed up
[20:15] <highvoltage> RichEd: doing a basic revamp of the frontpage to look nice with the theme... maybe an hour or so
[20:15] <highvoltage> RichEd: and then making things more dynamic, I think that will be an ongoing process
[20:16] <highvoltage> RichEd: lots of incremental changes to make it more dynamic would be good
[20:16] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I've had a 80MB upload 36MB upload and if I do KDE Edu ~ 30MB upload
[20:16] <highvoltage> LaserJock: shew
[20:16] <LaserJock> highvoltage: good think I'm not in AU
[20:17] <LaserJock> I just let my DSL go for a while
[20:17] <highvoltage> AU?
[20:17] <LaserJock> australia and their capped bandwidth
[20:17] <highvoltage> ah. we have that here too. and our caps are even lower than in .au
[20:18] <highvoltage> typical dsl accounts are capped at 2GB or 3GB a month (total for up and down)
[20:18] <LaserJock> yucky
[20:18] <RichEd> highvoltage: well can we work towards a specific "release date" and chat about the content update & rework before then ?
[20:18] <highvoltage> yeah I attended a protest against our telkom monopoly recently. most people don't care about doing anything about it though
[20:18] <LaserJock> RichEd: it entiredly depends on sysadmins
[20:19] <highvoltage> RichEd: we could, but I don't know how long the sysadmins will take
[20:19] <LaserJock> RichEd: could be days, could be months :-)
[20:19] <highvoltage> RichEd: should we target it for Wednesday next week?
[20:19] <RichEd> LaserJock: well then I'd prefer to set a date with them as an official release, and get it queued up for then
[20:19] <highvoltage> RichEd: that gives us a week, to be safe
[20:20] <highvoltage> RichEd: I'll do some more nagging tomorrow, hopefully they can do it then
[20:20] <highvoltage> Znarl is nice and gives in to pressude easily. :)
[20:20] <highvoltage> pressure, even
[20:21] <RichEd> highvoltage: could we make it 2 weeks ... i'd like to add a few sections ... as well as revamp the old stuff
[20:21] <highvoltage> RichEd: yep
[20:21] <RichEd> I want a high prominence section on "Why Edubuntu"
[20:22] <RichEd> answered from the perspective of each:
[20:22] <RichEd> - a student
[20:22] <RichEd> - a teacher
[20:22] <RichEd> - a school
[20:22] <RichEd> - a education district
[20:22] <RichEd> - an OEM system builder
[20:22] <highvoltage> RichEd: ok, that sounds like a vgraeat idea
[20:23] <highvoltage> wil you gather the perspectives?
[20:23] <RichEd> not a huge amount of work, but would like to get the basic value points in place\
[20:23] <highvoltage> *will
[20:23] <RichEd> highvoltage: yep ... there is obviously a core set of values ...
[20:23] <RichEd> * free bundled apps
[20:23] <RichEd> * ease of use
[20:23] <RichEd> * free os
[20:24] <RichEd> so those will be common points, but things like the OEM have a few special perspectives ...
[20:24] <LaserJock> an edubuntu-users email could probably generate some ideas
[20:24] <highvoltage> good idea, and it will also draw in the larger community to participate in this
[20:25] <RichEd> i.e. you can legally pre-install Ubuntu and ship your machines for the same price but much higher purchaser value (and hence demand) but also a legal answer to those B*sh sponsored MSFT piracy cops
[20:26] <RichEd> and also want to add a nice font page mini-pic and link to "meet the edubuntu ambassador"
[20:26] <highvoltage> oh dear.
[20:26] <RichEd> :)
[20:26] <RichEd> this is my theory ... bear with me for a min:
[20:26] <RichEd> we need a smooth process to uptake new volunteer effort ...
[20:27] <RichEd> but at the moment ... we do not have this nice and friendly ...
[20:27] <highvoltage> hmm, currently we have virtually no process,it's somtheing I've thought about, but have not put enought effort into
[20:27] <RichEd> so if we have a human interface, (highvoltage), with a nice pic and a little nackground as to who you are ... then people will see you as being aproachable
[20:28] <RichEd> *background not nackground
[20:28] <RichEd> so if someone via email or in the channel says: "would love to help" .. we can send them to you ...
[20:28] <highvoltage> I wouldn't mind doing that, but won't people think I'm an asshole for having a pic up there? it's like people who have their faces on business cards
[20:28] <RichEd> so that you can guide them as to where they fit
[20:28] <highvoltage> hmmm...
[20:29] <RichEd> highvoltage: we need a welcome person, who a schoolteacher or learner would be happy to send an email to
[20:29] <highvoltage> ok, I think we can make it work
[20:29] <highvoltage> yeah, people seem to be real happy to send me emails *sigh*
[20:29] <highvoltage> :p
[20:29] <RichEd> this amount of involvement is temporary ... we use you while we build a decent welcome room
[20:30] <highvoltage> ok, sounds interesting, I think we can make it work
[20:30] <highvoltage> a welcome room, that sounds interesting
[20:30] <RichEd> i can also ask for a unique email address so you can filter the mails ...
[20:30] <RichEd> or we could even use a form on the site with some checkboxes to identify interest / skill
[20:30] <highvoltage> that's actually a very good idea
[20:30] <RichEd> that would do some pre-processing
[20:31] <highvoltage> an ambassador@edubuntu.org would work well,because if someone needs to take over, the email can just redirect to the new person in the future
[20:31] <RichEd> you are a ( ) student ( ) teacher ( ) activist
[20:31] <RichEd> highvoltage: (yep thought of that)
[20:31] <RichEd> i can [ ] attend events [ ] do artwork [ ] program
[20:32] <highvoltage> yes, it would be nice to build up a matrix of skills that we have in the community
[20:32] <RichEd> that may help with the building of an automated process / or welcome room (page i mean) with the right volunteer sections
[20:32] <RichEd> if someone sees a task and thinks "hey I could do that" we have more chance of them wanting to join in
[20:32] <highvoltage> yes, I thought that a "welcome room" would be nice to introduce new people to the team
[20:33] <highvoltage> I mean, everyone wants to know who LaserJock is
[20:33] <highvoltage> there could be pictures and mini-profiles of people who are currently/recently active in the welcome room
[20:33] <RichEd> and also some profiles of other volunteers ... so people get to know what sort of people are in the community
[20:33] <RichEd> snap
[20:33] <highvoltage> yes, snap indeed
[20:34] <RichEd> so ... that is what you and I can work on ... the formal process ... but unitl then we point people to you
[20:34] <RichEd> *until
[20:34] <highvoltage> ok
[20:34] <LaserJock> highvoltage: haha, nobody cares about who I am :-)
[20:35] <RichEd> ambassador@edubuntu.org can then pass on to someone else, and you can mentor them
[20:35] <highvoltage> people who have emailed us so far has always been nice so far, that's a good sign at least
[20:35] <highvoltage> LaserJock: come on! everyone always asks about LaserJock!
[20:35] <LaserJock> pfft
[20:35] <LaserJock> ok, so I'm gonna play devil's advocate here for a sec
[20:36] <highvoltage> LaserJock: go for it
[20:36] <RichEd> I've also set up the following specs:
[20:36] <RichEd> * https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/education-wiki-people-and-group-pages
[20:36] <LaserJock> 1) you gotta have mentors and things for people to do if they want to contribute
[20:36]  * highvoltage was thinking the same thing, re #!
[20:36] <LaserJock> 2) most people will use it as a support request/bug submission system
[20:36] <highvoltage> #1
[20:36] <RichEd> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/education-launchpad-groups
[20:37] <highvoltage> LaserJock: yeah, but whatever you do, ever... people will try to use it for support!
[20:37] <LaserJock> sure
[20:37] <LaserJock> to some degree
[20:38] <LaserJock> but making it easy for people to do the wrong thing doesn't help
[20:38] <highvoltage> LaserJock: at least, if we advertise it as a contributions thingy, then we can tell people how they can fix it themselves, and help getting it fixed in edubuntu itself. we could take advantage of it and use it to lure those people in
[20:38] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I realise I'm being too optimistic there, but I just have to counter the devils advocate ;)
[20:38] <highvoltage> LaserJock: yeah
[20:38] <highvoltage> LaserJock: what do you suggest?
[20:39] <LaserJock> ok, so perhaps Ambassador is not the right terminology
[20:39] <LaserJock> perhaps having this on a "How to help" page
[20:39] <LaserJock> and calling it a Contribution Helpdesk or something
[20:40] <RichEd> LaserJock: we can play with language, but my feeling is that people would like to "meet a real person" to engage first off
[20:40] <LaserJock> I'm not sure we're set up for "give us your questions?"
[20:40] <RichEd> being pointed to a list of options is far less immediate ...
[20:40] <LaserJock> RichEd: unless that person is unresponsive and they get redirected around and around
[20:40] <LaserJock> think of it as a call center
[20:41] <LaserJock> it's nice to get a helpful person on the phone
[20:41] <RichEd> you know if we are in the channel and someone says they would like to help, they are often busy with their own issues & problems
[20:41] <LaserJock> it's real pain in the butt to get put on hold only to get get shoved around to different departments, etc.
[20:41] <RichEd> sending them to a "contrubute list" can make them think ... cool i'll come back later to fill in the form
[20:41] <RichEd> and never do
[20:42] <RichEd> sending them to a real person has more chance of hooking them
[20:42] <RichEd> (my opinion)
[20:42] <LaserJock> maybe
[20:43] <LaserJock> although my pessimistic view might be that people who can't figure out how to use a list are unlikely to contribut much
[20:43] <highvoltage> this is an interesting discussion, but I need to get some sleep, have to be at client premisses real early tomorrow morning. perhaps we should think about this and discuss it again Friday'ish?
[20:43] <RichEd> LaserJock: some people are timid ... not "un-useful"
[20:43] <RichEd> highvoltage: fine ... no problem
[20:43] <RichEd> ! ping ogra again !
[20:44] <LaserJock> RichEd: agreed, but timidity can make them unuseful
[20:44] <highvoltage> LaserJock: I think your points are completely valid, and if we address them properly, we could make things work
[20:44] <LaserJock> so we shouldn't make it unnecessarily difficult for sure
[20:44] <highvoltage> LaserJock: it's true that some people may be scared off by process and procedure, but we could do a little hand holding
[20:44] <LaserJock> but we also have to look at gain vs. cost
[20:44] <RichEd> LaserJock: so let's have a human there to judge their usefulness
[20:44] <RichEd> and tell them to be brave and unafraid :)
[20:45] <LaserJock> yes perhaps
[20:45] <highvoltage> LaserJock: if they still feel that it's too much for them to be part of the community, then that's fine if they want to move on, we'll just have to find ways to maximise our retention rate
[20:45] <LaserJock> I just don't think we maybe should invest a lot of effort into it initially
[20:45] <highvoltage> LaserJock: and make sure that it's not becuase of problems caused on our side
[20:45] <RichEd> general questions: so w.r.t. spec above and community revitalisting, how do we ensure that the launchpad groups are meaningful & keep them active ?
[20:45] <LaserJock> if we suddenly find that there are a lot of peopel who want to help but got scared away we can do more
[20:45] <highvoltage> LaserJock: start small... baby steps?
[20:45] <LaserJock> highvoltage: yep, baby steps
[20:46] <somerville32> What team is this?
[20:46] <LaserJock> RichEd: in general I'd say getting rid of a lot of the groups would help
[20:46] <LaserJock> somerville32: Edubuntu
[20:46]  * somerville32 has a question when you guys are done.
[20:46] <highvoltage> RichEd: For the last 18 months, I've been meaning to go through all the groups and revive them, there are lots of people in those groups who have mailed me with some good ideas, but we haven't pulled them in quite yet
[20:46] <RichEd> should we allow anyone to create any education groups, dead or alive, or expect certain standards or levels of activity
[20:46] <highvoltage> LaserJock: *nod*
[20:47] <LaserJock> basically we've got a lot of dead branches
[20:47] <LaserJock> and you gotta do some trimming
[20:47] <LaserJock> make sure the trunk is healthy
[20:47] <highvoltage> RichEd: I thinkthings that haven't been active for 6 months can be closed down
[20:47] <LaserJock> and then try again
[20:47] <RichEd> can we expect that someone representing each group should attend a monthly meeting to share wat they are doing ?
[20:47] <RichEd> *what
[20:47] <highvoltage> RichEd: yes, do think so
[20:47] <highvoltage> somerville32: fire away
[20:47] <RichEd> or a quarterly "activity news report"
[20:47] <RichEd> that sort of thing ...
[20:48] <somerville32> highvoltage, Are you guys migrating to Xfce4?
[20:48] <RichEd> a framework also is useful to get activity happening
[20:48] <highvoltage> RichEd: perhaps smaller, more regular reports will be better, and then those could be compiled for bigger ones
[20:48] <stgraber> either be present at the meeting, or e-mailing the ML but well showing some activity would be good
[20:48] <highvoltage> somerville32: nope, there's a spec for an edubuntu with xfce
[20:48] <highvoltage> somerville32: but it's not targeted for hardy yet, especially being a lts release and all
[20:48] <RichEd> okay ... so give that all some thought ... and send me comments or add to the wiki spec pages
[20:48] <LaserJock> somerville32: we ship Xfce4 in addition to our main DE
[20:48] <somerville32> highvoltage, Are you guys going to renounce your derivative status and become a "module"?
[20:48] <highvoltage> somerville32: although, lots of schools and educational projects do use xfce
[20:48] <RichEd> no ogra for tech yet ... and i am also getting tired
[20:49] <somerville32>  /addon
[20:49] <RichEd> anyone with TECH reports / issues / questions
[20:49] <highvoltage> somerville32: yes, an add-on, so I suppose using "edubuntu" with Xubuntu will become easier
[20:49] <LaserJock> somerville32: sort of. I'd say it's still a derivative, but is more dependent on a base OS
[20:49] <highvoltage> somerville32: but it will probably not be supported by Canonical
[20:50] <highvoltage> RichEd: no further issues here, may I ring the bong?
[20:50] <LaserJock> RichEd: I really don't think we have enough people to have much for reports, team leadership, etc.
[20:50] <LaserJock> if the teams grow then fine, we can address it
[20:50] <highvoltage> yeah. I think RichEd is thinking more long-term though. I can see where he's coming from.
[20:50] <LaserJock> but creating a lot of structure initially is often a lot of wasted effort, IMO
[20:50] <stgraber> RichEd: Can you also define the exact goal of the "Edubuntu Testers" group, is there any real reason to have those people there instead of the "Ubuntu Testing Team" ?
[20:51] <highvoltage> RichEd: LaserJock is right, it's better to create structure on the fly as it's required. necessity being mother of invention and all that.
[20:51] <RichEd> sorry ... got caught up for a sec ...
[20:51] <highvoltage> stgraber: that's a valid question and believe it or not, there is actually a good answer too
[20:52] <RichEd> about the groups ... the spec above is a prune process as LaserJock also intended ...
[20:52] <highvoltage> stgraber: that team was created to address a lot of edubuntu-specific problems that was present at the time, LTSP at that stage was quite messy and required lots of testing, as well as some educational software, such as gcompris
[20:52] <LaserJock> I'm afraid that lots of dead teams or teams of like 2 demanding weekly reports etc. actually are worse for growing a team
[20:52] <RichEd> i just would also like some guidelines as to "expectations" around each edubuntu or education related group ...
[20:53] <highvoltage> stgraber: that group is mostly obsolete now, and you're right, we can probably move the members over to the ubu-to0testerst teeam
[20:53] <highvoltage> ubuntu testers team, even
[20:53] <RichEd> we do not have to enforce hard rules with an iron law ... but to see a group created without any real description of their purpose or goal to me is not meaningful
[20:54] <RichEd> and we get duplication ... as per stgraber testing query above ...
[20:54] <RichEd> which is fragmentation and duplication of effort or intention
[20:54] <stgraber> highvoltage: ok, because we (as the Ubuntu QA) try to build some kind of testers community who of course will start by testing their favourite variant of Ubuntu but then can also give a hand for others, so we are trying to merge everything into the Ubuntu Testing Team
[20:55] <LaserJock> RichEd: I think getting rid of teams that don't have a functional purpose (ones that are just a group of people) would be a good idea
[20:55] <RichEd> stgraber: yep ... edubuntu testing could be more around the desktop education package & application etc.
[20:55] <RichEd> but h/w compliance can all move to ubuntu
[20:56] <stgraber> having one mailing-list, one website and one IRC channel, so we can easily distribute the work and that'll be an important thing with a LTS ahead
[20:56] <highvoltage> stgraber: ok, great. it would be nice if you could provide some input on how best we could get the team members from edubuntu testers into ubuntu testers, I'll give you a ping sometime during the next week or so
[20:56] <LaserJock> my list of LP teams that should remain are: edubuntu-members, edubuntu-bugs, and edubuntu-website
[20:56] <RichEd> LaserJock: also i'd like at least to say that each group should have a wiki page ... much like the loco temas
[20:56] <RichEd> *teams
[20:56] <LaserJock> I would stick with those 3 for now
[20:56] <LaserJock> if it were me ;-)
[20:57] <RichEd> explaining what their goal is, who they are, where they are based (if relevant) etc.
[20:57] <stgraber> RichEd: right, I generally try to keep a list of people interested in testing the different part of Ubuntu + their hardware so when we have to test a new set of ISO we can easily ping them
[20:58] <ogra> argh
[20:58] <stgraber> RichEd: IIRC in the Testing team, I'm the only one with the required hardware to test Edubuntu LTSP, so we basically were two testers for Gutsy (ogra and me), having the others around in #ubuntu-testing would have make testing of edubuntu easier (if people in Edubuntu testers are actually active testers)
[20:58] <stgraber> hi ogra
[20:58] <stgraber> LaserJock: +1
[20:58] <RichEd> LaserJock: https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-advocacy
[20:58]  * ogra just noticed DST ... damned ... i was in other TZs the last meetings :/
[20:58] <RichEd> * https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-school-support
[20:59] <LaserJock> going from 13 teams (not counting loco stuff) down to 3 would help a lot
[20:59] <LaserJock> RichEd: get rid of them :-)
[20:59] <highvoltage> LaserJock: *nod*
[20:59] <effie_jayx> RichEd,  is https://launchpad.net/~education-enthusiasts a very active team?
[20:59] <LaserJock> basically, LP teams should *reflect* team activity, not be used to create it
[21:00] <ogra> effie_jayx, its big and the last memeber got approved on nov 6th
[21:00] <LaserJock> and they should be functional
[21:00] <highvoltage> LaserJock: also, having lots of teams with the same people in them tend to not always work so nicely
[21:00] <effie_jayx> :D
[21:00] <ogra> so at least the team admin isnt dead
[21:00] <stgraber> I would personally have : edubuntu-members, edubuntu-bugs, edubuntu-website, edubuntu-advocacy, edubuntu-doc
[21:00] <LaserJock> highvoltage: and makes it look like nothing's happening because everything is spread out
[21:00] <LaserJock> edubuntu-doc should go away, IMO
[21:01] <LaserJock> I can sorta see edubuntu-advocacy but I'm not sure what the point is
[21:01] <highvoltage> stgraber: we could probably have even less than that
[21:01] <RichEd> effie_jayx: it is gaining momentum ... set up by an enthusiastic guy a while back
[21:01] <highvoltage> LaserJock: perhaps we can also merge the advocacy into ubuntu marketing
[21:01] <highvoltage> LaserJock: like with the testing
[21:01] <RichEd> their wiki page is updating
[21:01] <LaserJock> edubuntu-members houses info, -bugs is used as a bug contac, -website holds bzr branches for the website
[21:02] <highvoltage> RichEd: I think teams like that who have good momentum and activity hsould continue
[21:02] <stgraber> right, the only edubuntu specific bit of doc being LTSP and LTSP being integrated in Ubuntu, edubuntu-doc becomes useless
[21:02] <RichEd> i've got an action set up to ping each group member set, one by one, asking for their aims and what they are up to
[21:02] <highvoltage> RichEd: but a team should be more than a list of people
[21:02] <LaserJock> if the LP team isn't functional then there's no reason to keep it right now
[21:02] <RichEd> i'll note how many people respond or not
[21:02] <RichEd> i'll also ask them to set up a wiki page ... with a set info framework
[21:03] <RichEd> we can then look at their intentions and suggest consolidation where it maks sense
[21:03] <RichEd> ... hi ogra ...
[21:03] <LaserJock> RichEd: we can't just shut them down? :-)
[21:03] <RichEd> ogra: we jumped into community and web site while you were not around
[21:03] <ogra> not much for tech (i can do it in some sentences) so keep me for the end
[21:04]  * RichEd kills the power to the laser agitator
[21:04] <LaserJock> why not?
[21:04] <LaserJock> dump the list of people on a wiki page is poof!
[21:04] <RichEd> LaserJock: we don't want to p!$$ people off
[21:04] <LaserJock> why would it do that?
[21:04] <LaserJock> we're just moving the "team"
[21:05] <ogra> but you shouldnt do without notifying the team members
[21:05] <RichEd> we'll give them a chance to stand up and say what they are up to
[21:05] <ogra> and at least get their opinion
[21:05] <RichEd> if their group makes sense, then they can keep it, and we will understand who they are, and when it makes sense to send other people to join them
[21:05] <LaserJock> RichEd: it's not a matter if they are active or not
[21:06] <RichEd> LaserJock: ? what more ?
[21:06] <LaserJock> it's that we shouldn't have 13 team on launchpad that don't serve a functional purpose
[21:06] <LaserJock> it's just a list of people
[21:07] <LaserJock> and for the sake of running a clean organization it's good to get rid of non-functional teams
[21:07] <ogra> but they probably do stuff
[21:07] <LaserJock> it's not a matter if the *people* do stuff
[21:07] <ogra> how do you know how active they are if they dont work on LP
[21:07] <LaserJock> it's a matter if the LP team does stuff
[21:07] <ogra> they might communicate to a forum
[21:07] <RichEd> ^ "<RichEd> if their group makes sense, then they can keep it, and we will understand who they are, and when it makes sense to send other people to join them"
[21:08] <ogra> right
[21:08] <RichEd> if their group ideals are covered by another group, we'll suggest consolidation
[21:08] <ogra> we should discuss that on the -users list rather than in a meeting imhp
[21:08] <ogra> *imho
[21:08] <LaserJock> RichEd: bah, I'm not talking about the individual people or their goals
[21:08] <ogra> that needs broader communication than just between the meeting participants
[21:09] <LaserJock> I'm saying that an LP team should be used for more than just a list of people
[21:09] <LaserJock> it gets in the way of real work
[21:09] <RichEd> ogra: we got into a bit of detail here about the proess for pruning and regrowth
[21:09] <RichEd> LaserJock: that's why i think each group should be required to have a wiki page ... according to a set template ...
[21:09]  * ogra would be fine to keep the teams but have top teams to caegorize them in into subteams if all people would insist that they want to keep their group for example
[21:10] <LaserJock> RichEd: and we should get rid of the LP teams
[21:10] <RichEd> and a requirement to keep it up to date
[21:10] <LaserJock> RichEd: wiki pages are great, LP teams are not, unless there is a functional purpose
[21:10] <RichEd> with things like actions, events, how to help or share etc.
[21:10] <ogra> but how do you prevent people from juts randomly starting new teams
[21:10] <ogra> LP has no restriction at all
[21:10] <RichEd> then we can see if they actually *do* stuff other than create groups
[21:11] <LaserJock> the EC should handle that
[21:11] <ogra> and we dont own the edu- namespace
[21:11] <LaserJock> I think we can make a claim on that ;-)
[21:11] <ogra> how is that ?
[21:11] <LaserJock> we at *least* have an interest in edubuntu-*
[21:11] <ogra> LP is an upstream tool
[21:11] <LaserJock> right, and we are Edubuntu
[21:11] <LaserJock> so people shouldn't have conflicting names
[21:12] <ogra> if there are *any* edu projects from around the world we cant just tell them we own the edu anespace :)
[21:12] <RichEd> ogra: agreed ... that's why i'd like to set up the "agreed principles" for ubuntu related education groups, and then when someone creates a new group, we can send an email saying:
[21:12] <ogra> *namespace
[21:12] <LaserJock> not edu
[21:12] <LaserJock> edubuntu
[21:12] <RichEd> "hi, we see you have created an education related ubuntu group"
[21:12] <ogra> right
[21:12] <ogra> communicate :)
[21:13] <LaserJock> many of the groups we've created ourselves
[21:13] <RichEd> please follow this wiki link to fill out the required info for your group ...
[21:13] <ogra> but dont just shut the teams down :)
[21:13] <LaserJock> we can at least shut those down easily
[21:13] <ogra> true
[21:13] <RichEd> and send a group representative to the next community meeting
[21:13] <ogra> the ones we created can get thinned out
[21:13] <ogra> but we shouldt do that to self formed teams
[21:13] <LaserJock> no, I agree that that is not nice
[21:13] <ogra> and i know there are some that formed through the mailing list for example
[21:14] <ogra> and there *is* stuff going on even though not much
[21:14] <RichEd> we can advise a group that it is being "reviewed" ... and let them speak up at a community meeting if they feel the group should not be culled
[21:14] <LaserJock> but we should discourage it, IMO, and tell them they are better off with a ML and/or wiki page
[21:14] <RichEd> if they can't attend a meeting to talk about it, the group is prolly not-useful
[21:14] <ogra> depends
[21:14] <LaserJock> but 13 LP teams is just nuts
[21:15] <LaserJock> we have 2 core devs and a handful of contributors
[21:15] <RichEd> LaserJock: i'll work through the: ping, response, review, prune process with you
[21:15] <RichEd> i'll get the pinging done, ask for info, and then bring the responses to the table for a joint review
[21:16] <RichEd> until then ... happy to let ogra go into tech ?
[21:16] <LaserJock> oh sure
[21:16]  * RichEd is getting droopy eyes
[21:16] <ogra> well, 80% of my time was spent getting ltsp into shape ...
[21:17] <ogra> which was mostly involving endless discussions on #ltsp among the three distros  ....
[21:17] <ogra> i guess stgraber lured from time to time :)
[21:17] <ogra> *lurked
[21:17] <ogra> today i finally got a first package done but the fedora changes are not in yet, so everything can stil break heavily
[21:18] <ogra> my work focus will be on educational packages and the edubuntu CD in the future ... while i havent discussed with cjwatson yet about the CD stuff
[21:19] <ogra> my priorities are clearly on classmate development and maintaining the edu packages atm
[21:19] <ogra> so i'm not sure the CD switch will happen right now until i have talked to colin
[21:19] <ogra> next near target is the first alpha CD btw ...
[21:20] <ogra> the seeds are in shape (in the old gutsy structure yet)
[21:20] <ogra> theer are some probs with the CD buildsystem that are currently getting fixed (it forcefully builds gutsy CDs due to a bug)
[21:20] <ogra> so the dailies you currently get on cdimage.u.c are actually gutsy final :)
[21:21] <ogra> merges from debian are going on, i'm done so far with the exception of tuxtype and kino ... which i'll do tomorrow
[21:22] <ogra> stgraber, has a 1.0.4 italc package for us :) italc 1.0.4 was just released :)
[21:22] <ogra> thats about all i think
[21:23] <ogra> questions ?
[21:23] <ogra> oh, and an applause for LaserJock for gcompris merging :)
[21:23] <ogra> thats hard work ....
[21:24] <ogra> doesnt seem like ...
[21:25] <LaserJock> ogra: awesome
[21:25] <LaserJock> I'm having a little look at kstart right now
[21:26] <LaserJock> and I'll see if I can't kill some KDE Edu bugs
[21:26]  * RichEd claps for LaserJock & stgraber & ogra 
[21:26] <RichEd> all 3 hard workers
[21:26] <ogra> kstart ? kstars you mean ?
[21:26] <LaserJock> ogra: yes, sorry, kstars
[21:26] <ogra> LaserJock, note that we agreed with upstream to pull kdeedu4 in
[21:26] <ogra> its considered stable
[21:26] <LaserJock> into hardy?
[21:26] <ogra> if the libs etc are there, yes
[21:26] <LaserJock> Edubuntu hardy I mean?
[21:27] <ogra> upstream says its stable ....
[21:27] <ogra> the question is if we have the deps ready
[21:27] <LaserJock> and not do KDE Edu3?
[21:27] <ogra> if not we'll fall back to the old one
[21:27] <LaserJock> k
[21:27] <LaserJock> we'll I've run Kalzium 4
[21:28] <LaserJock> and have been working with some of the apps needed
[21:28] <LaserJock> s/apps/packages/
[21:28] <LaserJock> if we can get the deps in I think people will be impressed with KDEEdu4
[21:29] <ogra> yeah
[21:29] <ogra> its pretty slick
[21:29] <ogra> but hardy is LTS so i dont like to make any definitive statement
[21:29] <stgraber> lighter as of RAM usage for what I've seen (less daemon/libs to load)
[21:30] <ogra> yeah that as well
[21:30] <ogra> and it uses svg everywhere which makes text in graphics 100% translatable
[21:32] <LaserJock> ogra: well, we can see how many MIRs it would take :-)
[21:32] <ogra> indeed
[21:32] <LaserJock> I know a couple of them
[21:32] <LaserJock> for Kalzium
[21:32] <LaserJock> but for the others I have no idea
[21:32] <LaserJock> shouldn't be too bad other than the actual KDE stuff
[21:34] <ogra> i pinged colin
[21:36] <ogra> no time :/
[21:37] <ogra> i'll find out what we'Re allowed to do and should have more ifo abotu the CD stuff next meeting then
[21:38] <Riddell> I've been told not to put parts of KDE 4 into main
[21:38] <ogra> ok, thats a clear statement then
[21:38] <ogra> :/
[21:38]  * ogra is sad we agreed to upstream that we'd put it in :(
[21:39] <Riddell> well, why does it need to be in main for edubuntu?
[21:39] <ogra> to be on the CD
[21:40] <ogra> i had to drop xfce today ...
[21:40] <Riddell> CDs could be built from universe
[21:40] <ogra> either edubuntu becomes unsupported and uses universe
[21:40] <ogra> or we stay a supported distro and restrict ourselves to main
[21:40] <ogra> i'D prefer the latter
[21:40] <Riddell> I'm also told main isn't about supported any more
[21:41] <ogra> right
[21:42]  * ogra is happy he isnt involved in #ubuntu-devel atm ... phew ...
[21:42] <ogra> RichEd, i think we can close then ... i cant give much more info without the meeting with colin now
[21:43] <ogra> any further business ?
[21:44] <ogra> going once
[21:44] <ogra> going twice
[21:44] <RichEd> BONG
[21:45] <ogra> adjourned, thanks all :)
[21:45] <RichEd> thanks all
[21:45] <ogra> and sorry for being 1h late
[21:45]  * RichEd falls over
[21:45] <ogra> wont happen next time
[21:45]  * ogra joins falling
[21:45] <RichEd> no problem ... we got some useful community chatting going
[21:45] <ogra> RichEd, seen barrys mail ? you need to buy even more bandwith
[23:00] <farmhand01> Hello All
[23:00] <farmhand01> Is there anyone out there who can help me with a thin client problem?
[23:01] <Palintheus> you might try #ubuntu , this is a channel for different team meetings
[23:01] <LaserJock> farmhand01: try #ltsp or #edubuntu if you're using that