[00:00] <txwikinger> but the patch I did was not dpatch
[00:01] <txwikinger> Now I have to figure out where to change the postinst and prerm files that are created with debhelper
[00:01] <mok0> txwikinger: for that, you'd better do some reading...
[00:02] <txwikinger> Already found it :D
[00:02] <txwikinger> grep is always my friend :)
[00:02] <mok0> :-)
[00:03] <mok0> google's mine
[00:03] <txwikinger> well that is grep's buddy
[00:06] <alvinc> okay, i know i'm doing something stupid or forgetting something dumb
[00:06] <alvinc> but dpkg-buildpackage says my scret key is not available
[00:06] <alvinc> why is that?
[00:06] <alvinc> debsign, actually, is what is puking
[00:07] <txwikinger> did you provide the keyid?
[00:07] <alvinc> yup
[00:07] <alvinc>   181  debuild -rfakeroot -kD8C7693C
[00:07] <alvinc> duh
[00:07] <alvinc> i just imported my key on this box
[00:07] <alvinc> and didn't assign trust to it
[00:08] <txwikinger> :)
[00:09] <alvinc> i are moron.  :-/
[00:09] <alvinc> oh wait, still puked for some reason
[00:09] <alvinc> hm
[00:11] <alvinc> derrrrrr......
[00:11] <alvinc> helps if i import the secret key as well as the private key, huh?
[00:11] <alvinc> :-/
[00:20] <mok0> Goodnight all!
[00:20] <txwikinger> Night mok0:
[00:20] <txwikinger> THanks for your help
[00:20] <mok0> txwikinger: good I could help!
[00:25] <LaserRock> bah, anybody know how to get a USB disk working on sarge with a 2.4 kernel?
[00:26] <StevenK> Just plug it in?
[00:26] <LaserRock> heh
[00:26] <LaserRock> no such luck so far
[00:27] <StevenK> LaserRock: Ponies!
[00:29] <ScottK> I have a Sarge derived desktop here still and USB works on it just fine, but it has a 2.6 kernel.
[00:31] <jdong> ScottK: well udev only works with 2.6 kernels...
[00:31] <jdong> LaserRock: time to whip out your mount commands :)
[00:32] <LaserRock> jdong: well yeah, that's what I tried
[00:32] <jdong> sudo mount /dev/sda /mnt -t vfat -o umask=000?
[00:33] <jdong> err without the sudo thingie ;-)
[00:33] <LaserRock> I use sudo
[00:33] <LaserRock> it's habit now
[00:33] <jdong> it's a great habit
[00:33] <LaserRock> mount: /dev/sda is not a valid block device
[00:34] <jdong> checked dmesg for the right block dev?
[00:34] <LaserRock> I just keep getting that for various /dev/sd*
[00:34] <LaserRock> well, dmesg doesn't say much
[00:34] <jdong> dmesg should show the usb mass storage device being probed
[00:34] <LaserRock> I'm guessing this might not be a good sign: usb.c: USB device 2 (vend/prod 0xd49/0x3210) is not claimed by any active driver.
[00:34] <jdong> LaserRock: modprobe usb-storage?
[00:35] <jdong> yay for lack of hotplug...
[00:35] <LaserRock> haha
[00:35] <LaserRock> there we go
[00:35] <jdong> *cough* apt-get install linux-2.6
[00:36] <LaserRock> can't
[00:36] <LaserRock> nice proprietary drivers that only work with 2.4 kernel
[00:36] <jdong> lovely :)
[00:36] <LaserRock> yes
[00:37] <LaserRock> one of the joys of working in my field
[00:37] <LaserRock> you pay $500 bucks for the board and get screwed if you want a free or Free driver
[00:38] <jdong> yay
[00:38] <LaserRock> we paid $1k for the software, Windows of course
[00:41] <LaserRock> aha, that darn thing must've been using USB1
[00:41] <jdong> LaserRock: modprobe ehci_hcd? :)
[00:42] <jdong> LaserRock: maybe it's usb_ehci in 2.4
[00:42] <LaserRock> well, the ancient computer with USB1 but running Gutsy or the new Dell with USB2 running sarge with a 2.4 kernel
[00:42] <StevenK> It's just ehci
[00:42] <LaserRock> jdong: nah, the new one works I think ok
[00:42] <LaserRock> it's the other computer I was trying before
[00:42] <LaserRock> that was only USB1
[00:42] <RAOF> LaserRock: My partner works in materials science.  *They* pay for their software.  I really don't know why.  It looks like I could knock up something that works better in a month or so.
[00:46] <LaserRock> RAOF: well, this stuff is really quite interesting, not something I could knock up in a month
[00:46] <LaserRock> although we don't need a 10th of it
[00:46] <LaserRock> you just buy everything hoping that what you need is somewhere in there :-)
[00:46] <Hobbsee> LaserRock: ponies!
[00:48] <ajmitch> Hobbsee!
[00:48]  * Fujitsu wonders if we can get Kmos to destroy that quit message.
[00:49] <effie_jayx> heh
[00:49] <Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!
[00:49] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: he didn't say anything about that software actually working.
[00:49] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's true.
[00:50] <Burgundavia> LaserRock: talk to the linux driver people
[00:53] <ScottK> Fujitsu: There's another (similarly phrased) solution to that problem.
[00:53]  * Hobbsee grins
[00:53] <LaserRock> Burgundavia: what linux driver people?
[00:53] <Hobbsee> yes but that's...illegal in most countries
[00:54] <Fujitsu> LaserRock: The group of kernel developers who were asking for devices to write drivers for.
[00:54] <LaserRock> Fujitsu: for what?
[00:54] <ScottK> Hobbsee: No need to mention irrelevant trivialities
[00:55] <RAOF> Fujitsu: What?  There is such a group?
[00:55]  * Fujitsu finds a link.
[00:56] <Burgundavia> LaserRock: http://www.linuxdriverproject.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
[00:56] <Fujitsu> That looks right.
[00:56] <Fujitsu> Yay, Novell vs. SCO is unstayed.
[00:56] <Burgundavia> they are actively looking for devices to support
[00:57] <StevenK> Is that the thing GregKH is working on?
[00:57] <ajmitch> they are actively looking for specs for devices
[00:57] <Burgundavia> yes
[00:58] <Rotund> Can someone walk me through updating someone else's package?
[00:59] <Burgundavia> LaserRock: I would expect if they cannot get specs, they might want access to a machine with the device plugged in
[00:59] <Burgundavia> LaserRock: I would also personally email/mail the company as well get the Uni to make an official request for specs
[01:00] <StevenK> Burgundavia: Having being involved in driver development, just having access to the device isn't enough
[01:00] <LaserRock> Burgundavia: well, open drivers mostly exist already
[01:01] <LaserRock> Burgundavia: they just don't do what I want
[01:01]  * StevenK pokes firefox. Start!
[01:01] <LaserRock> to either use a 2.6 kernel or the open drivers I have to redesign my data aquisition program
[01:04] <LaserRock> ah well, supposedly I'm gonna get out of here soonish
[01:04] <StevenK> When they unlock the doors?
[01:04] <Burgundavia> LaserRock: if the drive is not the in vanilla kernel, they can help with that too
[01:04] <LaserRock> when I get my butt into gear
[01:05] <ajmitch> then you'll be in the real world & earning big money?
[01:05] <LaserRock> Burgundavia: this is for rarely used scientific hardware, I sort of doubt anybody wants to work on that much
[01:05] <LaserRock> ajmitch: more like completely broke and unemployed
[01:05] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: No, then he'll have time to release the Ponies.
[01:05] <Burgundavia> LaserRock: they want all drivers
[01:05] <ajmitch> LaserRoc can be our unofficial MOTU sponsor
[01:05] <StevenK> But no internet connection to post them.
[01:05] <StevenK> Being completely broke and unemployed
[01:06] <Burgundavia> LaserRock: http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ols_2006_keynote.html
[01:07] <LaserRock> StevenK: sadly perhaps
[01:07] <LaserRock> I really hope I can get a decent job
[01:07] <ScottK> He can post them from the library.
[01:07] <StevenK> Or hit up his grandpa
[01:08] <LaserRock> ScottK: i don't know if they allow that kind of stuff in the Library ;-)
[01:08] <LaserRock> StevenK: more likely ;-)
[01:08] <ScottK> LaserRock: I think there's been a thread on Piled Higher and Deeper recently.
[01:08] <LaserRock> ScottK: yes yes, been reading that
[01:08] <LaserRock> story of my life
[01:09] <ScottK> http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=937 for the rest of you.
[01:09] <ScottK> That or the current one.
[01:09] <ScottK> ;-)
[01:10] <LaserRock> yep, I read that this morning and thought to myself, "so true"
[01:10] <StevenK> So, Firefox! Why did you not start when I asked you, but you start when I click on the link ScottK pasted.
[01:10] <LaserRock> StevenK: cause it hates you
[01:11] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Because it wants you to use Epiphany.
[01:11] <LaserRock> ewww ;-)
[01:11]  * StevenK takes a pony and beats LaserRock with it.
[01:12] <LaserRock> dude ... I'm a rock
[01:12]  * StevenK beats you with paper
[01:12] <LaserRock> with a freakin' laser beam attached
[01:12] <LaserRock> ;-)
[01:13]  * LaserRock atomizes StevenK's paper into a puff of smoke
[01:14]  * StevenK "accidently" dumps some HCl on LaserRock
[01:15] <somerville32> StevenK, What concentration?
[01:15] <StevenK> Damn, I could never remember that bit.
[01:15]  * somerville32 dumps HClO4 on StevenK 
[01:16] <StevenK> Don't recognise that one
[01:17] <StevenK> It's been nine years since I did any chemistry, though
[01:17] <LaserRock> it's been about the same for me ;-)
[01:17] <somerville32> HClO4 is Perchloric acid
[01:18] <LaserRock> I'm sure I have some HF around here somewhere
[01:19] <somerville32> Hydrofluoric acid?
[01:19] <somerville32> Heya persia :)
[01:19] <persia> somerville32: Hi
[01:20] <somerville32> persia, How goes you?
[01:20] <persia> somerville32: Network and equipment annoyances, but otherwise reasonably
[01:20] <Rotund> Okay.  I want to take mugshot_1.1.56-1.diff.gz, mugshot_1.1.56-1_i386.changes, mugshot_1.1.56-1.dsc, mugshot_1.1.56.orig.tar.gz and build a proper package.  Can someone help me with this?
[01:20] <somerville32> :)
[01:20] <Ubulette> oh, persia, hi :)
[01:21] <persia> Rotund: That looks like you have a proper package.  Do you perhaps want to build it?
[01:22] <Rotund> persia: yes, I'd like to build it and hopefully update it from this (from debian) to Ubuntu such that it could be uploaded to universe potentially
[01:22] <somerville32> persia, Do you know which of the zim bugs are fixed in 0.23 or do I have to go manually check? <g>
[01:23] <Ubulette> persia, still ok to continue (or finish?) the review of prism ? btw, no one else stepped up
[01:23] <persia> Rotund: Anything in Debian should be automatically uploaded to universe by 14th December.  In Ubuntu we upload source, so that is the correct form for an upload.  For building, debuild, pbuilder, and sbuild will give you binaries.  If you want to update you probably want dpkg-source -x foo.dsc to unpack.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for discussion of process and links to a list of Documentation
[01:24] <persia> somerville32: I'd guess most of them, but have no firm ideas.  You'll need to check.
[01:24] <persia> Ubulette: I don't have the resources for proper review right now (network issues).  I'll look again when I have time and resources.
[01:24] <Ubulette> ok
[01:31] <Ubulette> anyone else to double check Prism ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=prism      (described here https://edge.launchpad.net/prism/ or http://labs.mozilla.com/2007/10/prism/)
[01:37] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:38] <somerville32> bddebian, :)
[01:38] <bddebian> Hi somerville32
[01:40] <somerville32> How would I create a local repository?
[01:40] <somerville32> ol
[01:40] <somerville32> I want to build zim the new version of libfile-basedir-perl isn't published yet
[01:40] <bddebian> There used to be a wiki page on it
[01:42] <Hobbsee> somerville32: use ppa?
[01:42] <somerville32> Hobbsee, I still have to wait for it to build
[01:43] <Hobbsee> this is true
[01:43] <somerville32> Oh wait
[01:43] <somerville32> It says published.
[01:44] <somerville32> I must need to update my tarball
[01:45] <Fujitsu> somerville32: They are only published to the public after around :42 of the hour.
[01:45] <somerville32> :45 atm?
[01:46] <Fujitsu> That's true, so it should be there.
[01:56] <zul> hey
[01:58] <Fujitsu> Hi zul.
[02:01] <somerville32> Guh, it isn't working :/
[02:01] <somerville32>  -> Considering build-dep libfile-basedir-perl (>= 0.03)
[02:01] <somerville32>       Tried versions: 0.02-1
[02:03] <ScottK> Did you update your pbuilder?
[02:03] <Fujitsu> somerville32: The source has published, but the binaries are largely yet to build, let alone be published.
[02:03] <Fujitsu> Hmm.
[02:03] <Fujitsu> Actually, what...
[02:04] <RAOF> Ubulette: I've had a brief look at prism.  One of the changelog entries mentions that you install something because it requires xulrunner 1.9 beta 1.  That's in the archives - is there any reason why you don't just have stricter versioned dependencies?
[02:04] <somerville32> It says published :/
[02:04] <Fujitsu> somerville32: Are you looking at the source?
[02:04] <somerville32> Probably
[02:05] <Fujitsu> Gaah, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+package/libfile-basedir-perl is rather misleading.
[02:05] <somerville32> oh
[02:05] <somerville32> i386 is built
[02:05] <StevenK> But probably not published yet
[02:05] <somerville32> 64 isn't though, and I'm building on 64bit
[02:05] <Fujitsu> somerville32: It's arch: all, so is the only one. It will be published in 40 minutes.
[02:07] <StevenK> And probably hit the mirror in about 70
[02:07] <StevenK> Er, s/the mirror/archive.u.c/
[02:07] <somerville32> It was built an hour ago though
[02:08] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Is a.u.c really that far out of sync with drescher?
[02:08] <StevenK> Fujitsu: a.u.c is pushed to during the publisher run, and the publisher takes a while to run
[02:08] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Publisher starts at :03, and finishes around :42, doesn't it?
[02:09] <Ubulette> RAOF: i expected to have prism in hardy sooner than xul 1.9b1 (in which i've changed the path for plugins and addons), I've got xul (and firefox 3) sponsored first, a few hours ago, so I can now update prism with the final path for its addon (or update prism later, it doesn't matter much)
[02:09] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Roughly
[02:09] <Fujitsu> StevenK: So your 70 minute figure seems quite arbitrary.
[02:09] <StevenK> Shush
[02:09]  * Fujitsu shushes.
[02:10] <StevenK> I see what you're doing now -- evidently my addition skills need polishing
[02:10] <Fujitsu> ?
[02:10] <Ubulette> RAOF, you mentioned changelogs, persia made me empty them. are you sure you're watching the last update in revu ?
[02:10] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Never mind me
[02:11] <Fujitsu> StevenK: How did you obtain 70?
[02:11]  * persia never makes anyone do things, just offers suggestions
[02:11] <StevenK> Fujitsu: I took your 40 and added 30, so yes, arbitrary.
[02:11] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Ahh.
[02:11] <Fujitsu> StevenK: I should have clarified my use of `published' there, sorry.
[02:12] <RAOF> Ubulette: I may have missed the last upload.
[02:13] <RAOF> Ubulette: Also, I'm not sure that clearing those changelog entries is the right thing to do (since those packages have been published somewhere public), although I would probably change the format somewhat.
[02:15] <RAOF> I notice you still don't close a needs-packaging bug in the changelog, though :).
[02:16] <Ubulette> RAOF, i was for keeping them, persia kind of convinced me to drop them
[02:16] <ScottK> Where was it published before?
[02:16] <RAOF> ScottK: In a PPA.
[02:16] <persia> How public?  How many users?  Was the previous place supported?
[02:16] <Ubulette> RAOF, oh, forgot to open a bug on lp. I'll do that tomorrow (it's 3am here)
[02:17] <ScottK> RAOF: I'd say that doesn't count then and it's appropriate to start fresh, but that's just me.
[02:17] <persia> I'd rather follow the Debian model, where first upload is first upload (as with the case where Ubuntu changelogs are dropped when a package is included in Debian)
[02:17]  * ScottK too
[02:17] <RAOF> Fair enough.
[02:18]  * RAOF squirrels that away.
[02:18]  * persia notes, for the record, that Debian mentors currently suggests multiple changelogs during the sponsoring process, but that this is not the normal case for Debian uploads.
[02:18] <bddebian> Yeah, I found that stupid but what do I know
[02:19] <slangasek> persia: who are you referring to when you say "Debian mentors"?
[02:19] <slangasek> it's certainly helpful to use distinguishing version numbers when exchanging packages with a sponsor, unless you've got a nice VCS between you
[02:20]  * ScottK envisions slangasek magically transforming himself into the superhero vorlon and vanquishing evil on the continent of OFTC.
[02:20] <persia> slangasek: That's an interesting question :)  My data comes from the contents of mentors.debian.net and a number of posts I've seen in response to package candidates that ask for changelog updates when uploading a new revision to mentors.d.n
[02:20]  * persia advocates REVU for Debian
[02:21] <bddebian> I talked to pabs about that
[02:21] <slangasek> persia: right; mentors.debian.net involves exchanging packages publically, so it's useful to be able to number them distinctly :)
[02:21] <bddebian> I can't see Debian doing that, but again what do I know? :-)
[02:21] <persia> slangasek: Maybe.  On the other hand, from working in the sponsors queue, I frequently get a bunch of different candidates for the same upload revision, and as long as I can differentiate them locally, it's not an issue.
[02:21] <ScottK> Well that's one of the features REVU has that mentors is currently missing.
[02:22] <persia> slangasek: Sure, but REVU exchanges packages publically, with the same revision, and changing dates.  It's unsupported, but if it ever gets uploaded, the packaging tools will auto-upgrade to the released version, even for users who grabbed the early version.
[02:23] <persia> Anyway, this discussion has already happened lots of times on OFTC and in threads on l.d.o, so it's not worth rehashing now :)
[02:24]  * ScottK has never experienced that on mentors.  Just fix this, fixed, dget the new .dsc and done.
[02:25] <ScottK> Easier with the VCS in common, but not really an issue either way.
[02:25] <LaserRock> I don't think I've ever had a "fix this" on mentors
[02:25]  * bddebian decides not to comment
[02:25] <LaserRock> although i think I may have only tried one package on mentors back in the day
[02:25] <LaserRock> so that's not much of a stat to go by ;-)
[02:26] <LaserRock> I just sent a RFS: and two days later it was uploaded
[02:26] <LaserRock> I could be wrong though, that was back in 2006
[02:26]  * ScottK tried the whine on #debian-mentors approach.
[02:26]  * ScottK saw bddebian whining there too.
[02:27]  * bddebian hasn't had success with either
[02:27] <LaserRock> hehe
[02:27]  * RAOF has always used the "prod StevenK" approach.
[02:27] <LaserRock> I do think it goes much smoother if a package has passed REVU
[02:27] <ScottK> Agreed.
[02:28] <LaserRock> normally you might just need a tweak or two to make sure it doesn't have any Ubuntuizations
[02:29] <LaserRock> bddebian: have you had a package just plain not get uploaded?
[02:30] <bddebian> Nah, I've finally gotten most of them in except for adanaxisgpl and the updates to pybliographer and valknut
[02:31] <LaserRock> that's good at least
[02:31] <bddebian> I just uploaded pybliographer and valknut to Hardy
[02:32] <nxvl> hi folks!
[02:32] <nxvl> imbrandon: are you around?
[02:33]  * LaserRock tries a way to stay here while taking a shower
[02:33] <LaserRock> *tries to find
[02:33] <zul> er why?
[02:33] <LaserRock> I hate it when stupid tasks like eating, sleeping, etc. get in the way of my Ubuntu time
[02:33] <nxvl> LaserRock: you need an acuatic n800 for that
[02:33] <nxvl> :P
[02:34] <LaserRock> hmm, surely there is a gum for this
[02:34] <LaserRock> ;-)
[02:38] <Ubulette> RAOF, ok, fixed both, I've updated my bzr branch and re-pushed to REVU.
[02:38] <Ubulette> feel free to review that one.
[02:52] <Hobbsee> LaserRock: ponies!  you still here?
[02:53] <ajmitch> poor LaserRock
[02:53] <ajmitch> always getting hassled about ponies
[02:54] <Hobbsee> and poor me, always getting hassled abou tmy uni work.
[02:56] <LaserRock> Hobbsee: poor me, always getting hassled about my uni work *and* ponies
[02:57] <LaserRock> Hobbsee: yeah, you know what pony you're gettin ;-)
[02:57] <Hobbsee> LaserRock: the one about bugging the hell out of you?
[02:57] <Hobbsee> LaserRock: or having a go at people?
[03:01] <LaserRock> Hobbsee: no, http://sc.tri-bit.com/No,_You_Can't_Have_a_Pony (for lack of a better URL)
[03:02] <Rotund> Is there a reason a Mugshot package would be rejected?
[03:03] <Rotund> I mean just generally.  Something about lack of freedom for the server or some such.
[03:03] <imbrandon> Rotund, the reason me or jdub neither put the packages in the archive is mugshot updates far too often
[03:03] <imbrandon> to be usefull in the archive
[03:03] <Rotund> imbrandon, I think it has slowed down quite a bit
[03:04] <imbrandon> Rotund: possibly, i havent looked in a few months
[03:05] <Rotund> imbrandon, 20 of June, 28 of June (bug fix) and 14 of Oct.
[03:05] <Rotund> imbrandon,  That's the last 3 releases.  They were much closer before than
[03:06] <Rotund> s/than/then/
[03:06] <imbrandon> it might be worth a re-look, i'm a tad worried though that 3 years worth of security on it might be a pita
[03:06] <Rotund> imbrandon, I think I'll at least set up a PPA for it.  I'm I think DLove has slowed way down.  Security?
[03:07] <imbrandon> Rotund: hardy will require security updates for 3 years
[03:07] <Rotund> imbrandon, I mean DLove hasn't kept up w/ new releases (no Gutsy yet for instance)
[03:07] <imbrandon> Rotund: its already packaged by jdub and updated by me but its not in the archive
[03:07] <imbrandon> Dlove?
[03:08] <Rotund> imbrandon, I don't think jdub has updated it in a while
[03:08] <imbrandon> yea i did the last updates ( as i just said )
[03:08] <imbrandon> anyhow yea its worth a re-look
[03:09] <Rotund> imbrandon, David Love is the place pointed to on the mugshot download page
[03:09] <Rotund> http://developer.mugshot.org/wiki/Downloads
[03:09] <Rotund> imbrandon, you up to 1.1.56?
[03:09] <imbrandon> no
[03:09] <imbrandon> but it would be much easier to update an existing package than re-package it
[03:09] <Rotund> imbrandon, ahhh.  Okay.  I just built such a beast.
[03:10] <Rotund> imbrandon, I took the one from Heikki Henriksen (debian)
[03:10] <Rotund> updated that one
[03:10] <imbrandon> cool, if you already have it done rockin, was it based on jdubs packages ?
[03:10] <imbrandon> ahh ok
[03:10] <Rotund> now to figure out how to set up a ppa =)
[03:10] <imbrandon> stick it on REVU/PPA then and point me to it
[03:10] <imbrandon> and i'll revu / possibly sponsor it
[03:11] <Rotund> okay.  Super.  I want to double-check a couple things first.  Is there a wiki page on how to upload it?
[03:11] <imbrandon> revu would be the best
[03:11] <Rotund> Or did you mean REVU or a PPA
[03:11] <imbrandon> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com
[03:12] <imbrandon> you mentioned Heikki Henriksen packages, its not in debian is it?
[03:13] <Rotund> I don't think so
[03:13] <Rotund> I think it's just on his personal page.  That's where mugshot points you to at least
[03:14] <imbrandon> http://svn.debian.org/~heikkih-guest/mugshot/
[03:14] <Rotund> not in unstable even
[03:14] <imbrandon> Rotund: right but there is probably a itp for it
[03:14]  * imbrandon looks
[03:14] <Rotund> itp?
[03:15] <imbrandon> intent to package, e.g he intends to upload those
[03:15] <imbrandon> are there changes from those or just rebuilt ?
[03:15] <Rotund> Some changes.  Renaming the iceweasel stuff to say firefox mostly
[03:15] <imbrandon> ahh ok
[03:15] <Rotund> yeah.
[03:16] <Rotund> what is the dpkg gui tool (gtk) called
[03:16] <imbrandon> yea , upload it to REVU please, and it is based on mugshot_1.1.56-1 from HH ?
[03:22] <imbrandon> speaking of, heh thats the first use of mod userdir on alioth
[03:27] <Rotund> hmm?
[03:27] <Rotund> It'll take me a second to get my ducks in a row (first contribution)
[03:28] <imbrandon> Rotund: no problems i'll be here a few hours, if you get stuck just poke me
[03:28]  * StevenK pokes imbrandon
[03:28] <imbrandon> might be afk for a few here and there but i'll be generaly arround next ~6 hours
[03:28] <StevenK> I'm stuck, fix *my* problem. :-P
[03:28] <imbrandon> heya StevenK :)
[03:29] <imbrandon> StevenK: heh i probably cant if you cant :)
[03:29] <imbrandon> StevenK: heya btw, i dident know ~/public_html was "allowed" on alioth ?
[03:29] <StevenK> Like I've used alioth
[03:29] <imbrandon> hehe
[03:29] <imbrandon> ok
[03:30]  * StevenK picks up his shovel and goes back to digging through ./configure
[03:33] <Rotund> imbrandon, I think it's uploading right now
[03:36]  * StevenK uses his shovel to beat upstream about the head
[03:36] <Rotund> could someone resync the uploaders keyring?
[03:38] <imbrandon> yea one sec
[03:38] <imbrandon> syncing now , it will take a few minutes
[03:39] <StevenK> "Minutes" ?
[03:39] <Rotund> Not running dinstall.  Is that a problem?
[03:39] <StevenK> Rotund: Nope, dinstall is a Debian-ism
[03:39] <Rotund> imbrandon, I'm pretty sure it actually uploaded, just don't have an account on REVU =)
[03:40] <StevenK> I think I might patch running dinstall out of dput, it hasn't been useful for *years*
[03:40] <imbrandon> Rotund: right, means it will be rejected, once the key syncs you can reupload ( after deleting *.upload localy )
[03:40] <LaserRock> StevenK: yes, there are a few of those kinds of things that'd be nice
[03:40] <imbrandon> StevenK: hehe yea only takes ~15 minutes
[03:41] <StevenK> LaserRock: Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Ponies! Oh, and file bugs.
[03:41] <imbrandon> heya LaserRock
[03:41] <LaserRock> yeah, see that's why I'm not fixing dput ;-)
[03:41] <imbrandon> ugh now not only did my fast computer leave me running a p200, NOW my monitor decided to quit, /me goes back to a 15 inch
[03:42] <imbrandon> man payday cant come fast enough
[03:42] <StevenK> imbrandon: Buy better hardware
[03:42] <imbrandon> yea really
[03:43] <StevenK> imbrandon: What are you buying?
[03:44] <imbrandon> StevenK: that *was* dell
[03:46] <StevenK> imbrandon: And? Buy better hardware. :-)
[03:46] <StevenK> imbrandon: If you don't buy comsumer-level Dell, you should be okay
[03:46] <imbrandon> heh yea i'll likely be getting high end HP or ..... something else
[03:47] <Rotund> I think I'm gonna get a System76 for my church =)
[03:47] <imbrandon> system76 are nice but dont have the systems i'm interested in :)
[03:47] <Rotund> I told them they're gonna use Linux.
[03:47] <Rotund> what are you interested in?
[03:48] <imbrandon> either high end desktops ( not gaming high end ) or sub-notebooks
[03:48] <TheMuso> Afternoon folks.
[03:48] <imbrandon> heya TheMuso
[03:48] <Rotund> boy that key thing takes a while, huh?
[03:49] <imbrandon> Rotund: basicly anything with more than 4GB of ram and over dual core 3ghz
[03:49] <imbrandon> yea it takes a bit, lots of keys to grab
[03:49] <Rotund> running 64-bit?
[03:49] <imbrandon> its on "S" 's now , Sean Rains <sean.rains@gmail.com>
[03:49] <imbrandon> shouldnmt be much longer
[03:50] <Rotund> hmmm.  Must it finish all them first?
[03:50] <imbrandon> yea i run 64bit vm's host OS is normaly 32bit + PAE though
[03:50] <imbrandon> Rotund: yea
[03:50] <Rotund> which VM?
[03:51] <imbrandon> depends on the machine :)
[03:51] <imbrandon> vmware mostly
[03:51] <imbrandon> why?
[03:51] <Rotund> I got a paid version of VMWare, but I'm looking at virtualbox
[03:51] <Rotund> just interested... and waiting =)
[03:51] <imbrandon> i use most of the paid VMware products at work :)
[03:51] <StevenK> The VM server my old employer got just before I left was nice.
[03:52] <Rotund> ahhh.  We talked about it, but then only did it on the servers.
[03:52] <StevenK> Quad core 2.4GHz Xeon, 4GB RAM, SATA-II
[03:52] <imbrandon> StevenK: heh they just got some 32GB Ram quad core ( dual, dual core ) boxen here
[03:52] <imbrandon> very nice
[03:52] <Rotund> Why not go right to the fibre hdds (forget the name)
[03:52] <imbrandon> + fiber connected SAN :)
[03:53] <StevenK> That isn't quad core that's SMP dual core :-)
[03:53] <imbrandon> its 4 cores :)
[03:53] <StevenK> On 2 chips
[03:53] <StevenK> This was 4 cores on one chip :-)
[03:53] <imbrandon> oh i know, thus i made the distenction
[03:54] <Rotund> I've been considering getting my wife a quad-core for video production (cinelerra)
[03:54] <Rotund> Oh, what's the reason cinelerra is being blocked?
[03:54] <LaserJock> because it's authors are on crack
[03:54] <imbrandon> vid production is much more RAM/HDD blocked isnt it, vs the cpu
[03:54] <LaserJock> *its, I think
[03:54] <Rotund> LaserJock, which?  HeroineWarrior or the community guys?
[03:55] <LaserJock> Rotund: kinda both
[03:55] <LaserJock> but mostly Heroine
[03:55] <Rotund> imbrandon, depends on the effects.
[03:55] <Rotund> Perhaps, but it's the only decent one for Linux.
[03:55] <LaserJock> Rotund: cinelerra is not GPL, despite what heroine says
[03:55] <LaserJock> so we can't include it in the archives
[03:56] <LaserJock> we can't redistribute it
[03:56] <LaserJock> Rotund: Ubuntu Studio tried for months to get Cinelerra in :/
[03:56] <imbrandon> Rotund: ok key synced, delete your *.upload file localy and re dput
[03:58] <Rotund> done
[03:58] <Rotund> when do I get a website account?  after I uploaded something?
[03:58] <imbrandon> correct
[03:58] <Rotund> okay.  5 more minutes
[03:58] <imbrandon> you use the "lost password" function once its uploaded
[03:58] <imbrandon> and it will give you a GPG encrypted passwd
[03:59] <Rotund> Okay.  So, I removed an error that lintian gave.  Dm Upload Allowed.  That was the right thing to do, right?
[03:59] <Rotund> I saw some arguments about it
[04:00] <StevenK> Neat.
[04:00] <Rotund> LaserJock, What is keeping it from being GPLed though?
[04:00] <imbrandon> well depends, without it being in the archive yet , that was probably the correct thing to do, but thats a debian thing
[04:00] <StevenK> You search Google for a function and the only document that matches is from the SVN repository of the project you're building
[04:01] <imbrandon> and should be kept as upsteam does once its in the archive
[04:01] <imbrandon> StevenK: heh
[04:01] <Rotund> even if it's a Lintian error?
[04:01] <imbrandon> yes
[04:01] <Rotund> got it
[04:02] <LaserJock> Rotund: Heroine refuses to actually make sure that GPL'd source is really GPL'd
[04:02] <imbrandon> Rotund: ok its there ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mugshot ) revuing now
[04:02] <LaserJock> Rotund: I'm fairly sure that Heroine is violating the GPL and doesn't really want to change, can't help that much
[04:03] <Rotund> imbrandon, just about to tell you, but you're too quick
[04:03] <imbrandon> Rotund: "* Modified to build on gutsy" modified "what" to build on gutsy ( and it should be hardy targeted not gutsy )
[04:03] <Rotund> LaserJock, Apparently the community version is talking about starting from scratch =)
[04:04] <LaserJock> Rotund: yep, that's pretty much the conclusion I came to
[04:04] <Rotund> Well, it was for me to use now.  I'll remove the comment entirely.  All the changes were about the firefox/iceweasel thing
[04:06] <Rotund> LaserJock, I don't think we can get to another pro level one any time soon though.  Look at how hard it is to get a decent entry-level editor... hasn't happened yet
[04:06] <LaserJock> Rotund: yep, it's really a shame, a real shame :(
[04:07] <Rotund> imbrandon, can I change a comment or will I have to rebuild?
[04:08] <imbrandon> if you make any changes you will have to debuld -S -sa , remove the .upload file and reupload
[04:08] <somerville32> Is this out of date? http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu-policy/ch2.html
[04:08] <imbrandon> but it was more a question at this moint
[04:08] <imbrandon> point
[04:08] <Rotund> no problem
[04:09] <Rotund> LaserJock, how is GPLed code not GPLed?  You mean he pulled in some code and didn't check the license?
[04:09] <persia> somerville32: Yes.  Check /usr/share/doc/menu/menu.txt.gz on hardy
[04:09] <persia> (or sid or lenny, if you prefer)
[04:10] <Rotund> imbrandon, I've tested the package on gutsy, haven't tested on hardy (not installed)
[04:10] <LaserJock> Rotund: basically yeah
[04:11] <Rotund> imbrandon, is there a way to force dbus to reload?  That should be in the package.
[04:11] <LaserJock> Rotund: an initiall check showed that 1000 out of 3000 files are not GPL
[04:11] <Rotund> Whoa.  Like missing the header or what?
[04:11] <Rotund> or actually looked into the code?
[04:11] <LaserJock> various
[04:12] <LaserJock> sometimes there is *no* license info
[04:12] <Rotund> Is there a page on that?
[04:12] <imbrandon> Rotund: /etc/init.d/dbus reload ?
[04:12] <LaserJock> Rotund: no, you'd have to ask the Ubuntu Studio guys
[04:12] <LaserJock> Rotund: ask _MMA_ about it
[04:13] <Rotund> imbrandon, where would I put that command?
[04:13] <imbrandon> Rotund: you mean dbus needs to be reloaded after an install? sounds like a job for the postinstall
[04:13] <Rotund> is it just a bash file basically?
[04:14] <Rotund> I didn't see instructions on postinstall
[04:14] <LaserJock> Rotund: you could probably dig around the community mailing lists
[04:14] <LaserJock> Rotund: Heroine was emailed, etc.
[04:14] <imbrandon> Rotund: ok go a head and make the other changes , i'll make that change
[04:16] <Rotund> imbrandon, =)... how?
[04:16] <imbrandon> e.g. clarify your changelog entries
[04:16] <Rotund> dch -e?
[04:17] <ScottK> LaserJock: I've seen lots of packages uploaded with missing file headers if the intent was clear overall.  What makes this different?
[04:17] <imbrandon> and i'll make the postinstall ( if needed ) before upload, i'm doing some other checks now, we MIGHT have to put this in multiverse
[04:17] <imbrandon> not sure
[04:17] <Rotund> I think everything's free.  Can't you even get the server code?
[04:17] <LaserJock> ScottK: the took code from elsewhere, sometimes GPL-incompatible, and called the whole thing GPL
[04:18] <StevenK> Which is naughty
[04:18] <ScottK> Ah.  That'll do it.
[04:18] <ScottK> Yes.
[04:18] <imbrandon> Rotund: everything is free but the name, e.g. a firefox/iceweazle case
[04:18]  * StevenK kicks this mess called gtkmozembed
[04:18] <LaserJock> ScottK: it was bad enough that some people considered having a talk with FSF
[04:18] <ScottK> Ah.
[04:19] <StevenK> Why didn't they?
[04:19] <LaserJock> they might have, I'm not sure
[04:19] <LaserJock> I don't really care about it
[04:19] <LaserJock> but when 1/3 of your code is at least questionable
[04:20] <LaserJock> and then you say that the whole thing is GPL and *blast* anybody who likes clarification
[04:20] <Rotund> imbrandon, firefox-sage is in universe
[04:20] <imbrandon> StevenK / ScottK / LaserJock , someone else mind peeking at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/mugshot-0711280500/mugshot-1.1.56/LICENSE and tell me if that is going to be an issue for universe , i'd imagine its most definately a problem for debian
[04:20]  * ScottK looks
[04:20] <imbrandon> Rotund: yea but we have agreements with mozilla corp, leaste canonical does
[04:21] <Rotund> imbrandon, should I allow for iceweasel?
[04:21] <imbrandon> Rotund: its the name "mugshot" its self has restrictions on use
[04:21] <persia> There'd need to be an agreement in place so that Redhat permits Ubuntu to call it mugshot.
[04:21] <imbrandon> firefox iceweazle was another example of just such a thing
[04:21] <ScottK> Personally I wouldn't upload it as I don't consider it free software, but by Ubuntu policy it's probaby fine.
[04:21] <Rotund> imbrandon, I remember that
[04:21] <persia> Rotund: You could call it something else: as long as "mugshot" isn't the name, you're safe.
[04:22] <persia> (e.g. running sed -n s/mugshot/facesnap/g recursively would make it free)
[04:22] <imbrandon> and yes a | iceweasel would be nice
[04:22] <StevenK> imbrandon: Questionable at best
[04:23] <Rotund> imbrandon, is the following fine?
[04:23] <Rotund>   * Renamed iceweasel-mugshot to firefox-mugshot
[04:23] <Rotund>   * Fixes related to using firefox over iceweasel
[04:23] <Rotund> originally it used iceweasel-extensions, not mozilla-extensions
[04:23] <ScottK> StevenK: How is it more questionable than Firefox?
[04:23] <imbrandon> yea , looks better, but i think we need to look into this name thing a bit more, a new name might be required
[04:23]  * ajmitch isn't seeing a huge problem with the mugshot trademark guidelines
[04:24]  * persia claims that licensing and trademarks are orthogonal, and so it doesn't matter, as long as there aren't any conflicts
[04:24] <StevenK> ScottK: It's linked to a web service, and the trademark talks about the web service and community all through it
[04:24] <ScottK> Ah.
[04:25] <imbrandon> well , the config option was added to comply with the change , e.g. --with-about-message="Mugshot™ client code adapted for Debian"
[04:25]  * StevenK grumbles, and rebuilds tinymail.
[04:25]  * ScottK thinks if you aren't Free to modify the code and use it, it's not free.
[04:25] <imbrandon> ScottK: sure you are, you just cant use the same name :)
[04:26] <persia> ScottK: You're free to do that, you just can't call it "Mugshot" if you aren't using mugshot.org.
[04:26] <ScottK> Which imposes a requirement to modify it in a certain way.
[04:26] <imbrandon> so does everything but BSD lic :)
[04:26] <persia> ScottK: No, just links two modifications: if you change the target, you change the name.  If you leave the target, you leave the name.
[04:26] <ScottK> Not really.
[04:27] <imbrandon> there are plenty of restrictions in the GPL, esp GPLv3
[04:27] <ScottK> Of course on the other end of the spectrum I also don't like AGPL and it's forced distribution requirements.
[04:27] <persia> Still, best to check with RedHat, and likely best to have someone commit to personally maintain it (or a team), rather than it being randomly in universe.
[04:27] <Rotund> imbrandon, you see this?  http://mugshot.org/trademark
[04:28] <imbrandon> Rotund: yes i read it
[04:29] <somerville32> woot
[04:29] <somerville32> Almost done zim
[04:29] <nxvl> imbrandon: i have just write you an email
[04:29] <imbrandon> but i'm not a lic expert, personaly on this case i would rather canonical contact redhat for an agreement OR it go past debian-legal
[04:29] <persia> somerville32: Excellent.  How many bugs will you get to close?
[04:29] <StevenK> imbrandon: Then bring it in front of the Technical Board.
[04:29] <imbrandon> nxvl: great, wasent sure when you were online
[04:29] <imbrandon> StevenK: good idea
[04:30] <somerville32> persia, One at the moment :P New version.
[04:30] <Rotund> imbrandon, was my comments fine
[04:30] <Rotund> ?
[04:30] <Rotund> oh wait, you responded =)
[04:30] <somerville32> I have to check now to see if the new version fixes any of the bugs and list them
[04:30] <somerville32> and than I'll see about fixing a few myself
[04:30] <imbrandon> Rotund: in other words keep up the good work and i'll still get with you on making the package "ready" technicly but we need to talk to the TB at very leaste before i feel comfy sponsoring it into the archives
[04:31] <imbrandon> just to CYA
[04:31] <somerville32> persia, I figured out libfile-basedir-perl and got it uploaded and all that (it was blocking zim)
[04:31] <nxvl> imbrandon: if talk i´m online if don´t im not :D
[04:31] <Rotund> imbrandon, could you tell me how to get that postinstall?  I'd like to put it on a PPA
[04:31] <imbrandon> nxvl: great, 'll poke my mail in just a sec
[04:31] <StevenK> somerville32: Hmph, no you didn't, I figured it was libfile-basedir-perl :-)
[04:32] <somerville32> StevenK, Pfft. I just asked you what package it was in :P
[04:32] <persia> somerville32: I was sure the new version also closed a bunch of others: I'm expecting a changelog like http://paste.ubuntu.com/2309/, just with heaps & heaps of entries :)
[04:32] <imbrandon> Rotund: sure, did you re-upload ?
[04:32] <Rotund> one sec
[04:32] <imbrandon> k
[04:32] <somerville32> persia, The changelog is a little cryptic
[04:32] <jdong> I've never heard "frob" before
[04:32] <jdong> except from the playground in elementary school but I'm sure that's another context
[04:33] <persia> somerville32: Well, you'd want something actually relevant ...
[04:33] <somerville32> persia, I meant the upstream changelog is a little cryptic
[04:33] <persia> somerville32: Yes.  Very much so.
[04:34] <persia> jdong: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/F/frob.html
[04:34] <persia> (meaning 2)
[04:34] <jdong> somerville32: you (are|have) (going\ to\ make|made) sure that libfile-mimeinfo-perl is not borked by the new libfile-basedir-perl, right? :)
[04:35] <somerville32> persia, This is the current changelog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2310/
[04:35] <somerville32> jdong, umm, sure :P
[04:35] <jdong> persia: ah, learned a new word today :)
[04:35] <Fujitsu> jdong: You could have merged those two sets of alternatives.
[04:35] <persia> somerville32: I'd recommend adding (LP: 165285) to the "* New Upstream Release" line, and indenting the upstream bugfixes there.
[04:35] <jdong> Fujitsu: in hindsight it would've saved some parentheses for the LISP foundation, yeah.
[04:36] <Fujitsu> jdong: Hahah.
[04:36] <StevenK> "You *have* made sure that libfile-mimeinfo-perl is not borked by the new libfile-basedir-perl, right?"
[04:36] <nxvl> this is a "bot" on a server sjfhjkswhich is running and loggin all day long :D
[04:36] <somerville32> persia, You want me to paste in the upstream changelog?
[04:36] <jdong> StevenK: meh I didn't want to make it too accusatory, it's Hardy after all, he has time to do it :)
[04:37] <jdong> anyway, I'm tired and have exams tomorrow, night everyone :)
[04:37] <persia> somerville32: No, just if upstream closed some bugs (like crashes on install, internal links broken, etc.), it's best to mention them in the changelog (as subentries to * New upstream release) with indication of the relevant LP bugs.
[04:37] <somerville32> persia, Right. I plan to do that once I figure out which ones it fixes :
[04:38] <persia> Right :)
[04:38] <Rotund> imbrandon, uploaded.  Just needs to refresh
[04:38]  * ScottK notes in passing that they are discussing the flying spaghettin monster and cocaine on #debian-devel right now.  We aren't having enough fun in here.
[04:38] <imbrandon> Rotund: ok, give me a few moments, sortnig some email
[04:39] <Rotund> no prob
[04:39] <persia> On the other hand, for just the current changes, I'd recommend http://paste.ubuntu.com/2311/ as having a clearer association between an entry and the closed bug.
[04:44] <imbrandon> Rotund: you still have it targeting gutsy in the changelog, it needs to be hardy, gusty is released already
[04:44] <imbrandon> ( it can be backported later )
[04:44] <davidrawson> hello
[04:44] <persia> davidrawson: Hello
[04:45] <davidrawson> what can I use to mount ISO's?
[04:45] <Rotund> imbrandon, Sorry, I thought you just meant the comment
[04:45] <Rotund> =)
[04:45] <imbrandon> davidrawson: this isnt a support channel try #ubuntu , but you can use "mount"
[04:45] <persia> davidrawson: There's heaps & heaps of options, but you'll probably get a better answer in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-foo for some local help.
[04:46] <davidrawson> i'm banned from #ubuntu for some reason...
[04:46] <persia> !channels
[04:46] <ubotu> A list of official Ubuntu IRC channels, as well as IRC clients for Ubuntu, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat - For a general list of !freenode channels, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#channellist - See also !Guidelines
[04:46] <imbrandon> davidrawson: then you need to speak to the #ubuntu-ops, that still dosent make this a support cahnnel
[04:46] <persia> davidrawson: Try looking in the channel list in the help.ubuntu.com link, and pick a local #ubuntu near you.
[04:47] <Rotund> imbrandon, uploaded again
[04:47] <imbrandon> kk
[04:47] <Rotund> now says hardy
[05:03] <nxvl> imbrandon: replied
[05:08] <imbrandon> wow, no ITP or RFP for mugshot , nor is it listed in unable-to-be -packaged
[05:10]  * persia suspects there are about 500 packages of ubuntu interest in that state
[05:11] <imbrandon> yea but seeing how many people in debian/ubuntu use it, and jdub did some initial packing over 2 years ago
[05:11] <imbrandon> ... :)
[05:13] <persia> imbrandon: Does it show in the debian-legal archives?
[05:13] <Rotund> Yeah.  Well, I think most people were just getting it from David Love
[05:13] <imbrandon> persia: i was just about to look :)
[05:15] <Rotund> imbrandon, was an ITP debian bug #373571
[05:15] <ubotu> Debian bug 373571 in wnpp "ITP: mugshot -- Client for integration between Mugshot and the Linux desktop" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/373571
[05:15] <Rotund> whoa.  That was cool
[05:15]  * persia hugs ubotu
[05:16] <imbrandon> Rotund: hrm i might have missed it
[05:16]  * imbrandon looks
[05:16] <Rotund> it's closed now.  Looks like the Trademark thing came up then
[05:17] <Rotund> looks like they couldn't get a sponsor
[05:17] <Rotund> jdub even commented on it initially
[05:18] <somerville32> persia, If I can't reproduce the bug but I don't see something the changelog really, should I just close the bug in the changelog or do normal triage?
[05:18] <somerville32> Ex. lp #134727
[05:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134727 in zim "zim: find option (Ctrl-F) disappears after the first time" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134727
[05:18] <persia> somerville32: If you can reproduce the bug in the old version, but can't reproduce in the new version, closing in the changelog is nice.  If you can't reproduce in the old version, then normal triage for non-reproducible issues applies.
[05:19]  * somerville32 ponders how to test both at the same time.
[05:19] <persia> The reasoning being that it's easier to track which revision closes a bug when it's in the changelog instead of being in a bug comment.
[05:19] <persia> Chroots, VMs, and multiple HW environments may help...
[05:21] <somerville32> I can use my pbuilder chroot
[05:21] <persia> somerville32: I seem to remember hearing that getting an X instance running on a VT from a pbuilder-chroot was a little tricky.  Not to tell you not to do that, but to warn you it may require a little fussing.
[05:21] <somerville32> doh
[05:22] <Hobbsee> isn't it a case of bindmounting .Xauthority, among other things?
[05:22] <imbrandon> hrm i wonder when the next TB meeting is.
[05:22]  * imbrandon looks
[05:23] <persia> Hobbsee: Do you need to do that?  For a normal chroot, you don't.
[05:24] <Hobbsee> persia: oh, a chroot.  perhaps not.  pbuilder you do
[05:24] <StevenK> If I want to run X apps under schroot, I specify -p only, schroot does the rest
[05:24]  * Hobbsee just runs the development release, and does it that way
[05:24] <persia> Ah.  Right.  I knew there was extra fussiness.  Thanks.
[05:24] <StevenK> For pbuilder, you need to bind mount /tmp and /home
[05:24] <Hobbsee> StevenK: does sbuild explode if it can't find the .orig.tar.gz, btw?
[05:25] <StevenK> Yeah
[05:25] <persia> StevenK: Is that exporting $DISPLAY only, or running a separate instance?
[05:25] <Hobbsee> StevenK: how badly, and how does it explode?
[05:26] <StevenK> Hobbsee: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2312/
[05:26]  * persia notes that sbuild will download a remote .orig.tar.gz if it has a remote .dsc and the orig.tar.gz is in the same apparent directory on the server
[05:27] <persia> Oh.  Right.  It also tries to download it from the archives if it's not in ./
[05:27] <somerville32> Hobbsee, I want to do this for an older release.
[05:29] <Hobbsee> StevenK: ah right, so it does exit, and not freeze or something
[05:29] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Right
[05:30] <somerville32> This is going to take a long time
[05:30] <somerville32> 15 bugs, 3 versions to test
[05:31] <somerville32> *~15
[05:31] <somerville32> and my computer is sloow :(
[05:32] <persia> somerville32: But think how satisfying it will be to have a changelog entry that closes 15 bugs that you can point at when people ask what you did for Ubuntu :)
[05:33] <somerville32> How popular is Zim anyway?
[05:34] <davidrawson> invader Zim?
[05:35] <persia> We had a user who self-identified as a SF Author swing by the other day, and ask about it, reporting that the new upstream was really nice.  Last month another couple users were complaining to me about it.  I don't usually see that much traffic about any single universe package.
[05:35]  * somerville32 makes a chart to track the bugs
[05:36] <somerville32> I'm going to see if I can confirm them in 0.19 (Gutsy)
[05:36] <somerville32> See if they're fixed in 0.20 (Current Hardy)
[05:36] <somerville32> And than see if they're fixed (or fixable) in 0.23 (candidate)
[05:36] <persia> somerville32: That sounds like a sane strategy.  Your changelog should include all the 0.20 -> 0.23 fixes.
[05:36] <ScottK> persia: Mess up a clamav upload and you will.
[05:37] <persia> ScottK: Right.  That's why I don't do that :P
[05:38] <ScottK> Additionally being the last person to upload it when $NEWVERSION comes out is also sufficient
[05:39] <somerville32> So
[05:39] <somerville32> Does anyone here have amd64?
[05:39] <persia> ScottK: Sure, but what was the last package that had never received an Ubuntu upload, and which you do not maintain for Debian, for which you received three users feedback in two months?
[05:39]  * persia does, but not in combination with bandwidth for a bit more
[05:39]  * ScottK looks around for RAOF
[05:39] <somerville32> persia, Can you test 0.19 and 0.20 to see if it freezes when the sidebar is opened? :P
[05:39] <ScottK> He had it
[05:40] <ScottK> had/has
[05:40] <ScottK> persia: That, never
[05:40] <persia> ScottK: Right.  That's why I said zim was special (it meets those criteria)
[05:40] <ScottK> Agreed.
[05:40] <persia> somerville32: Not any time soon.
[05:41] <somerville32> Anyone else here amd64?
[05:42] <TheMuso> No sorry.
[05:42] <TheMuso> As much as I'd like one.
[05:42] <imbrandon> somerville32: i have access to one ( but its 32bit OS )
[05:42] <imbrandon> why?
[05:43] <somerville32> bug #132765
[05:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132765 in zim "zim freezes when opening the sidebar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132765
[05:43] <somerville32> Can you confirm if it freezes when the sidebar is opened on 0.19 (Gutsy) and 0.20 (Hardy)? (or just one)
[05:43] <imbrandon> actualy neither i can do, its 32bit os, your wanting a 64bit
[05:44] <StevenK> TheMuso: Then buy one? :-)
[05:45] <TheMuso> StevenK: I would if circumstances allowed.
[05:46] <imbrandon> brandon@presario:~$ uname -a
[05:46] <imbrandon> Linux presario 2.6.22-14-generic #1 SMP Sun Oct 14 23:05:12 GMT 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
[05:46] <imbrandon> brandon@presario:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep name
[05:46] <imbrandon> model name      : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3400+
[05:46] <imbrandon> e.g. 64bit CPU but 32bit OS
[05:46] <imbrandon> sorry somerville32
[05:46] <somerville32> :]
[05:46] <StevenK> imbrandon: There is a more proper way to check for '64-bit capableness'
[05:47] <imbrandon> StevenK: yea, but i was lazy :)
[05:47] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~% grep -wc 'lm' /proc/cpuinfo
[05:47] <StevenK> 1
[05:47] <imbrandon> yea but that dont tell you if the OS is 64bit also :)
[05:48] <StevenK> % linux32 uname -m
[05:48] <StevenK> i686
[05:48]  * StevenK smirks
[05:48] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:49] <imbrandon> sides thats my step-fathers computer, he might not like it if i arbitratrly install things, but then again he might not notice
[05:49] <imbrandon> LOL
[05:49] <imbrandon> i only have ssh access to "help when he breaks something" since i switched him from XP to Gutsy
[05:49] <imbrandon> :)
[05:50]  * StevenK kicks GTK and Hildon Input Method
[05:50]  * StevenK kicks Firefox and XUL while he is at it
[05:50] <persia> StevenK: Be careful: firefox is made of tar...
[05:51] <imbrandon> heh this all2iso guy just grabbed random *2iso utilities and put them in one zipfile, half are already in debian/ubuntu seperately
[05:52] <imbrandon> zul: any word on getting atleaste fatx fs in l-u-m ? or are you waiting on me ?
[05:52] <imbrandon> ( for hardy )
[05:53] <davidrawson> guys! guys!
[05:54] <imbrandon> ?
[05:56] <ScottK> davidrawson: It's still not a support channel here.
[05:58] <somerville32> davidrawson, what?
[05:58] <davidrawson> nothing
[05:59] <Rotund> imbrandon, Could you also put a firefox restart when firefox-mugshot is installed or updated?
[05:59] <Rotund> I mean the notification
[06:00] <Rotund> Now he's banned on 2 ubuntu channels =)
[06:00] <Hobbsee> channels_he's_banned_in++
[06:00] <Hobbsee> Rotund: 3, actually.
[06:00] <Hobbsee> not sure if he's gone in -offtopic as well
[06:00] <Rotund> wow
[06:00] <imbrandon> Rotund: ok
[06:01] <Rotund> imbrandon, Thanks.  I'm intrigued to see how they look, but first, I must code
[06:05] <somerville32> Is there a sensible-file-browser command or something?
[06:05] <nxvl> how do i apply a debdiff?
[06:05] <persia> somerville32: What do you want to to launch?  nautilus/delphin/etc?
[06:06] <nxvl> debdiff foo.dsc < foo.debdiff?
[06:06] <imbrandon> nxvl: patch -p0 <name_of.debdiff
[06:06] <somerville32> persia, I want desktop agnostic
[06:06] <persia> nxvl: patch.  There's a sample command for testing debdiffs in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[06:06] <persia> somerville32: Right.  I'm just trying to understand which sorts of things you would be launching.
[06:07] <somerville32> Like Thunar/Nautilus
[06:07] <persia> Right.  Now, check the alternatives listing for things that link to those binaries :)
[06:11]  * somerville32 wonders how to do that
[06:12]  * persia thinks there is an /etc/alternatives tree with a heap of symlinks, and that ls -l could help, but there may be some tool available in the package containing update-alternatives, or a better way.
[06:14]  * somerville32 doesn't think there is anything for it
[06:15] <RAOF> ScottK: Still after amd64 testing?
[06:16] <nxvl> thnx
[06:16] <persia> somerville32: If you think it'd be useful, you could build a catalogue of related programs, and propose a virtual alternative in a spec.  Should be easy to implement, but best to get people discussing it.
[06:19] <somerville32> persia, It should really depend on what DE is running
[06:20] <persia> somerville32: How do you mean?  If users have a preferred file browser, shouldn't they get that, instead of the DE default?  (I'd agree that DE defaults should have higher default alternatives priorities)
[06:21] <somerville32> persia, If I have Ubuntu and than I install Xubuntu
[06:21] <somerville32> If we relied on an alternative
[06:21] <somerville32> Than when I go back to gnome, it'll launch Thunar
[06:21] <somerville32> ie. It'll work people to start using just the one across multiple DEs installed
[06:21] <RAOF> somerville32: Were you after the zim amd64 testing?  It either works in 0.20-1 (hardy), or I don't understand that bug report.
[06:21] <somerville32> s/work/force
[06:21] <somerville32> RAOF, Ok. Can you try 0.19 for me too?
[06:22] <RAOF> That'll require a reboot, but yeah.
[06:22] <persia> somerville32: actually, given that Ubuntu is usually considered higher priority that Xubuntu, you might get nautilus in Xubuntu if you weren't careful.  Like I said, if it were to be done, you would want many people to find exceptions for a robust solution.
[06:22] <somerville32> No
[06:22]  * RAOF installs a newer nouveau snapshot, then reboots.
[06:22] <somerville32> Xubuntu has high priority
[06:22] <somerville32> If you install Ubuntu and than Xubuntu
[06:22] <somerville32> You get the Xubuntu usplash
[06:23] <persia> Ah.  Nifty (odd, but nifty).  Then yes, you'd get Thunar in GNOME.
[06:34] <RAOF> somerville32: I can't reproduce in Gutsy, either.
[06:35] <somerville32> RAOF, thanks :]
[06:35] <somerville32> RAOF, Try creating a link? Does it freeze?
[06:37] <RAOF> somerville32: Nope.
[06:38] <somerville32> Thanks
[06:38] <somerville32> 6 bugs left :]
[06:38] <somerville32> 4 of them wishlist
[06:44] <nxvl> why is that always on the debdiff apears /tmp/(some characters) before the filename?
[06:45] <persia> nxvl: Install the patchutils package to make them go away :)
[06:45] <StevenK> That's if they don't use the same .orig, then debdiff has to unpack both of them and diff -ur them
[06:46] <persia> (which is what it does by default if "interdiff" is not installed)
[06:46] <StevenK> I still see that and interdiff is installed
[06:47] <nxvl> i forgot patchutils /o\
[06:47]  * nxvl searches on the wiki
[06:47] <persia> StevenK: For the same orig.tar.gz?
[06:47] <StevenK> persia: No, for different orig tarballs
[06:48] <persia> StevenK: Right.  If you have the same orig.tar.gz, debdiff tries to do an interdiff.  If interdiff isn't installed, it falls back to the full unpack diff.
[06:49] <nxvl> persia: with which tool is that i make them disapear? filterdiff, doesn't it?
[06:49] <persia> nxvl: If you have patchutils installed, and you have the same orig.tar.gz, debdiff shouldn't produce the /tmp/... markers.
[06:50] <nxvl> there is a tar.gz
[06:50] <nxvl> but without the orig. part
[06:50] <nxvl> (on the name)
[06:51] <persia> nxvl: Ah.  Right.  Native.  In that case, you'll get it anyway (no diff.gz).
[06:51] <nxvl> nop, there isnt
[06:51] <persia> To unpack/apply, use `patch -p4 < ../foo.debdiff`
[06:51] <nxvl> oh ok
[06:52] <nxvl> so it's fine to upload the debdiff with the /tmp/... part in this specific casE?
[06:52] <persia> nxvl: Yes.
[06:52] <nxvl> ok
[06:52] <nxvl> then uploading
[06:53] <somerville32> persia, The new version doesn't appear to close any of our bugs
[06:54] <nxvl> should i report an ubuntu problem to debian or just ping the DM?
[06:54] <persia> somerville32: Hmm..  I heard that 0.20 closed a couple of our bugs, but hadn't looked at 0.23.  Too bad.
[06:54] <persia> nxvl: If the problem can be reproduced on Debian, it's better to open a BTS report than bug the maintainer.
[06:54] <nxvl> the thing is, that i have a FTBFS, it apears to be because sh point to dash, and on debian to bash (or something like that says the DM)
[06:55] <nxvl> and it has bash syntax, and sh as interpreter
[06:55] <persia> It's a valid bug in Debian to require /bin/sh == /bin/bash for build.
[06:55] <nxvl> so, it's kind of reproduced on debian
[06:55] <nxvl> ok
[06:55] <nxvl> so i need to report it?
[06:55] <nxvl> i have ping the DM some days ago and tell him about the problem
[06:56] <persia> nxvl: You don't *need* to report it, but everyone will be happier if you do.
[06:56] <nxvl> persia: if it's better to report it, i think i need to do it
[06:56] <nxvl> :P
[06:56] <somerville32> nxvl, We're glad you have a conscious
[06:57] <persia> The reason it's better to use the BTS than just email the maintainer is that it allows other people to see the possible problem, and comment, which may help the maintainer, and certainly reduces the number of different people who complain to the maintainer.
[06:58] <somerville32> lol
[06:58] <somerville32> 0.23 introduces a bug :/
[06:58] <somerville32> oh
[06:59] <somerville32> but it fixes one too! :)
[07:04] <nxvl> somerville32: which package?
[07:04] <somerville32> zim
[07:06] <nxvl> well
[07:06] <nxvl> done with my package
[07:06] <nxvl> now time to sleep
[07:06] <nxvl> i have a final tomorrow
[07:06] <nxvl> :(
[07:07] <nxvl> i hate final exams
[07:09] <somerville32> persia, I take it you'll sponsor?
[07:10] <nxvl> somerville32: suscribe u-u-s
[07:10] <somerville32> go to bed nxvl
[07:10] <persia> somerville32: Not unless I can get my bandwidth sorted: I suspect someone else will get to it faster.  If you're ready, push the interdiff to U-U-S.
[07:10] <somerville32> :P nxvl
[07:10] <somerville32> k
[07:13] <somerville32> persia, What is wrong with your bandwidth?
[07:13] <somerville32> persia, I can give you access to a server if you'd like to help relieve your bandwidth issue in the mean time.
[07:13] <persia> somerville32: Some switch port is hung, but as the ethernet fabric spans hundreds of kilometers, there's some argument as to which company is responsible for resetting the switch.
[07:14] <persia> somerville32: That doesn't help :)  Thanks anyway.
[07:14] <StevenK> persia: Get the power company to reset the entire circuit? :-P
[07:14] <somerville32> StevenK, Do you want to sponsor for me then?
[07:15] <somerville32> Bug #165285
[07:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165285 in zim "New upstream version: 0.23" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165285
[07:15] <somerville32> :]
[07:15] <StevenK> somerville32: Not right now, I'm doing two things at once.
[07:15] <persia> StevenK: Umm.  It's a fairly distributed and robust fabric, with 17 nuclear reactors feeding the power within just a 50 kilometer radius of where I sit.
[07:15] <RAOF> Oh miro, why must you mock me.
[07:15] <persia> somerville32: Just wait a bit.  Shouldn't take more than a few hours: the EU crowd will be in soon.
[07:16] <somerville32> persia, Any other packages that need loving?
[07:16] <persia> somerville32: Bug #163037 has a short list, if you like :)
[07:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163037 in ubuntu "Many applications of universe are neglected and produce frustration in users" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163037
[07:17] <StevenK> Oh dear.
[07:17] <StevenK> Precious much?
[07:21] <persia> somerville32: Also, If you do a search for "Undecided" bugs, and sort by most-recently-changed, and start at the end, you'll have a decent chance of finding ignored packages.
[07:27] <RAOF> Oh, that's very helpful of miro.  It can error out in such a way that it maintains its lock on the dbus interface, and then every subsequent attempt to run miro fails.
[07:28] <persia> RAOF: Is that different than the Xv bug that locks up all video players if one crashes in the right way?
[07:28] <Hobbsee> well, you knew it was full of crack...
[07:28] <somerville32> lol
[07:28] <somerville32> Heya dholbach
[07:28] <RAOF> persia: Oooh, that's a new one on me.
[07:28] <persia> Good morning Daniel.
[07:28] <dholbach> good morning
[07:28] <dholbach> hey somerville32
[07:28] <dholbach> hey persia
[07:28] <Hobbsee> oh noes, it's dholbach!
[07:28] <dholbach> how ar eyou all doing?
[07:28] <RAOF> This one can be fixed by a simple killing of all the various miro.real processes left hanging around though.
[07:28]  * Hobbsee is dead
[07:28] <somerville32> dholbach, Waiting for people to sponsor :]
[07:28] <RAOF> Hey dholbach.
[07:29] <persia> RAOF: Ah.  Easy then :)
[07:29] <somerville32> dholbach, Want to sponsor bug #165285 for me? :D
[07:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165285 in zim "New upstream version: 0.23" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165285
[07:29]  * RAOF is procrastinating doing the washing up.
[07:29]  * Hobbsee is pondering breakfast.
[07:29]  * persia strongly encourages somerville32 to advertise less often
[07:29] <dholbach> somerville32: I'll look into the sponsoring queue in a bit
[07:40] <imbrandon> anyone else mind laying some eyes on this, its a self sponsor so i dont *need* advocates, just would liek some more eyes for the obvious stuff
[07:40] <imbrandon> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=xbiso
[07:45]  * imbrandon yawns, anyone ?
[07:46] <imbrandon> moins dholbach
[07:46]  * persia thinks imbrandon is impatient
[07:46] <imbrandon> haha yea i am most of the time :)
[07:46] <StevenK> persia: s/impatient/American/
[07:47] <persia> StevenK: Well, I'd really like to agree with you, but I've known one or two exceptions in my time...
[07:47] <dholbach> hey imbrandon :)
[07:47] <imbrandon> considering it was a ~15 minute pack job i'm sure i overlooked something though
[07:47] <persia> (plus, I think most North Americans share a similar willingness to wait)
[07:48]  * imbrandon takes the opertunity to grab a mt dew
[07:49]  * Hobbsee removes all of imbrandon's mt dew.
[07:49] <imbrandon> nooooooooooooooo
[07:49] <Hobbsee> no more!
[07:50] <persia> imbrandon: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2313/ is a quick-hit list, but be sure to run the automated checks.
[07:51] <imbrandon> persia: lcc makefile is for lcc and its windows only
[07:52] <imbrandon> ( and not supported upstream )
[07:53] <persia> imbrandon: See, that's the kind of thing I miss when I don't build the package during a review :)
[07:53] <imbrandon> :)
[07:54] <imbrandon> and most of that other stuff is dh_make defaults hehe going through them now :)
[07:54] <imbrandon> and as for the bug i havent filed it yet ( lazy ) its a personal itch
[07:54] <imbrandon> but i will
[07:58] <persia> somerville32: Would you mind attaching the full interdiff?  -p1 makes it nice to read, but breaks the automated tools for generating the new diff.gz.
[07:59] <somerville32> persia, k, one sec
[08:01] <somerville32> uploaded
[08:01] <persia> somerville32: Thanks.
[08:13] <persia> somerville32: How does it close the bugs listed as closed?
[08:13] <somerville32> persia, The bugs are fixed by the new release?
[08:14] <persia> somerville32: Right.  I'll suggest you do something like was done for 0.18-1 in the changelog to explain the closures.
[08:14] <persia> (and please avoid things like the last entry in 0.16-1: that's just unclear)
[08:15] <somerville32> I can't access my server for some reason...
[08:15] <somerville32> :/
[08:17] <persia> somerville32: For extra points, updating the menu file to not call an absolute path, and point at a 32x32 .xpm would be nice.
[08:19] <somerville32> Ok
[08:19] <somerville32> hmm... this is weird. I can't access my server anymore where I build - like it dropped off the net or something, lol
[08:19] <persia> somerville32: Thanks.  Other than that, it looks like a really nice update, and it's also nice to see that you intend to maintain this properly :)
[08:20] <somerville32> persia, thanks :)
[08:20] <imbrandon> somerville32: they discovered you had a rootkit installed :)
[08:20] <imbrandon> just teasin
[08:21] <somerville32> ;]
[08:44] <gpocentek> somerville32: ping mr_pouit, he'll do it
[08:44] <needhelp> Hi! I need your help. Iam collecting points in page listed below. If you be so kind, please click url below.(sorry for the spam, thank you) http://www.3dwhite.lt/?click=56a3cdcf22ccc7ab5f0a7f4d2bc900ff
[08:45] <somerville32> :/
[09:01] <somerville32> Well, I should get some sleep. 5am here :]
[09:26] <huats> Morning everyone
[09:27]  * TheMuso really thinks we need to unify the sponsorship process for universe and main.
[09:28] <TheMuso> TO the point where we need to let core-devs know about possible changes we'd like to make, e.g interdiffs.
[09:28] <frenchy> Hi all.
[09:28] <persia> TheMuso: I'd agree with that, but many of the active universe sponsors can't upload to main.
[09:29] <geser> morning
[09:30] <dholbach> hi geser
[09:32] <dholbach> persia: I think TheMuso wants the review part of the sponsorship process to be the same
[09:32] <dholbach> there was just a discussion about interdiffs on #ubuntu-devel
[09:32]  * persia needs to watch more channels when not actively contributing, and will review the backlog soon.
[09:34] <dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/interdiff.log
[09:34] <persia> dholbach: Saves me 27 minutes.  Thanks :)
[09:34] <dholbach> de rien
[09:34] <geser> Hi dholbach
[09:36] <coNP[uni]> hey MOTUs
[09:36] <dholbach> hiya coNP[uni]
[09:43] <TheMuso> c
[09:43] <TheMuso> damn fingers
[09:45] <ivoks> anyone interested in merging wifi-radar?
[09:45] <ivoks> i'm kind of busy with server related stuff, so i can't fully devote to its merge...
[09:47] <dholbach> thanks a lot for the fixed font in the revu comments! kicks ass!
[09:52] <frenchy> persia, dholbach: Hi there.  Got the man pages installing with dh_installman.  Thanks for the advice.
[09:53] <persia> dholbach: About sponsoring: I'd really like to keep the UUS queue limited to candidates, especially as the workflow currently involves pushing things out of queue when they aren't ready for sponsoring yet (and these shouldn't be lost).
[09:53] <dholbach> persia: I agree that they shouldn't be lost
[09:54] <dholbach> it helps if somebody responsible is subscribed to the bug report to make sure that happens
[09:54] <persia> dholbach: Maybe, but people like you are I are subscribed to hundreds of bug reports, and many Contributors would be very happy to find the not-ready patches and turn them  into ready-patches.
[09:54] <geser> slomo: tomboy (main) build-depends on libmono-addins0.2-cil from mono-addins (universe) and is now in depwait
[09:54] <dholbach> persia: what do you propose?
[09:55] <slomo> so let's get mono-addins to main... otherwise we have a mono-addins copy in the tomboy tarball in main
[09:55] <slomo> newer f-spot needs mono-addins too anyway
[09:56]  * geser notes that there are 1274 packages with build failures on at least one arch in universe :(
[09:56] <persia> dholbach: I proposed using the "patch" tag :)
[09:57] <Fujitsu> geser: What happens if you exclude lpia and hppa.
[09:57] <dholbach> persia: who takes care of those bugs?
[09:57] <dholbach> persia: I wasn't implying that they all should get on the sponsoring queue
[09:57] <geser> Fujitsu: I'd need to rerun my script to get those numbers
[09:58] <geser> Fujitsu: http://members.ping.de/~mb/depwait/out.html
[09:58] <Fujitsu> geser: Yay! needsbuild there too. Very good.
[09:59] <persia> dholbach: Anyone who wants.  Contributors.  Developers.  etc.  I tend to pass the URL to people asking for something to do.
[09:59] <dholbach> ok
[10:01] <persia> I do agree that a tag is not necessarily the best way to do that, and hope that the "bug patch flag with icon" feature comes soon, but I'll go back to tagging if there's no traffic on that bug for a while more, and then look at rolling up the patches when I'm done tagging.
[10:25] <txwikinger2> dholbach: I did one of the bitesizes for the bugday today
[10:26] <dholbach> txwikinger2: rock on! :)
[10:26] <dholbach> good work :)
[10:26] <txwikinger2> thanks for the cheers :)
[10:27] <txwikinger2> Did you see it already ?
[10:27] <dholbach> txwikinger2: I got the wiki change email :)
[10:27] <txwikinger2> Ah
[10:27] <txwikinger2> I thought you get so much email.. you wouldn't read it
[10:27] <txwikinger2> :D
[10:28] <dholbach> I filter out the interesting bits :)
[10:28] <dholbach> (regarding the wiki)
[10:28]  * txwikinger2 feels honoured to be fallen inside the interesting bits
[10:28]  * dholbach hugs txwikinger2
[10:28]  * txwikinger2 hugs dholbach back
[10:28] <dholbach> you're doing great work
[10:28] <txwikinger2> Thanks
[10:29] <dholbach> hey luisbg_
[10:31] <frenchy> superm1:  Are you awake?
[10:32] <luisbg_> dholbach, hey daniel!
[10:32] <mok0> Is uudecode part of build-essentials?
[10:32] <luisbg_> mok0, afair no
[10:32] <mok0> So I need a build-dep`
[10:32] <mok0> ?
[10:33] <luisbg_> yes if you need uudecode to build the package
[10:33] <dholbach> sharutils iirc
[10:33] <mok0> great, thanks!
[10:33] <txwikinger2> Hi mok0
[10:33] <luisbg_> http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/devel/build-essential
[10:34] <mok0> luisbg_: ok... that's a very short list.
[10:36] <luisbg_> mok0, yeap =)
[10:38] <dholbach> much more important are its dependencies :)
[10:42] <mok0> dholbach: but they don't include sharutils
[10:42] <dholbach> right, you need to build-depends on it
[10:51] <Hobbsee> oh no, kmos surely didn't....
[10:51] <Hobbsee> and now i dont even get the savage pleasure of declining him.
[11:04] <geser> Hobbsee: what did he this time?
[11:04] <Hobbsee> geser: just tried to join u-u-s.
[11:05] <dholbach> where "just" was in early august
[11:06] <Hobbsee> er, yes, where "just" as in, i've just noticed it
[11:07] <dholbach> hehe
[11:08] <somerville32> Who is kmos?
[11:09] <dholbach> Marco Rodrigues
[11:09]  * dholbach gets back to modularising the PackagingGuide
[11:09] <geser> somerville32: you don't know him?
[11:10] <somerville32> I've seen the nick. Is there a story?
[11:11] <geser> somerville32: ask Hobbsee
[11:11] <Hobbsee> somerville32: there is, and you don't want to know about it.
[11:11] <somerville32> lol, I'm sure it is good story, lol
[11:11] <Hobbsee> might involve lots of head smashing on your part, though
[11:12] <somerville32> It'll help me wake up
[11:13] <Hobbsee> somerville32: Kmos is probably the most disruptive motu-hopeful we've ever had.
[11:13] <dholbach> better do something useful with your head... like do a merge or something :)
[11:13] <somerville32> Is he the guy who screwed up X?
[11:13] <somerville32> Oh, ok lol
[11:13] <Hobbsee> somerville32: he's gone from closing bugs at random, to mass filing sync requests, to mass filing removal requests, to then making promises that he has no right to make.
[11:13] <Hobbsee> somerville32: each time, he says he wont do it again, and then finds something more disruptive to do
[11:14] <Hobbsee> somerville32: he manages to remember information for short periods of time.  i've had him forget (willfully, or otherwise) information in just under an hour.  He then claims that he was never told the information.
[11:15] <Hobbsee> somerville32: he's also one of the few to have been thrown out of debian-games too, and attempted to be thrown out of ubuntu.
[11:16] <somerville32> Thats sad :(
[11:16] <somerville32> Does he still hang around?
[11:16] <Hobbsee> somerville32: each time, he appears to have little-to-no consideration of others, and also likes randomly pinging people so they can action whatever he wants done - even though it's far from urgent.
[11:16] <dholbach> yes and he's been doing much better work in the last weeks
[11:17] <Hobbsee> yes, he's still around somewhat, but much quieter.
[11:17] <Hobbsee> and various people have stepped down from the sponsorship queue due to him.
[11:17] <dholbach> the only positive thing I can say about the whole mess is that I hope that the MC will be able to deal with things like that better next time
[11:18] <Hobbsee> somerville32: to top it off, the best part is that he doesn't believe he should have to learn to do things right, because he's not looking to become a MOTU, he's only looking to contribute to ubuntu.
[11:18] <geser> I hope there will be no next time
[11:18] <somerville32> Eww... thats sick :(
[11:18] <Hobbsee> somerville32: that was my opinion, yes.
[11:19] <dholbach> geser: what I meant is that the MC should step up in such cases earlier and help fixing the situation
[11:21] <Hobbsee> dholbach: will they, though?
[11:21] <dholbach> Hobbsee: it's on their charter
[11:21] <Hobbsee> where is this charter?
[11:22] <dholbach> in their wiki page
[11:22] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Council
[11:22]  * somerville32 reads logs and cries.
[11:23] <TheMuso> Is it possible to use reportbug in Debian to file a bug against a source package?
[11:23] <broonie> TheMuso: Yes.
[11:24] <TheMuso> broonie: Right.
[11:24] <broonie> TheMuso: It'll fall back to checking a source package if it can't find a binary (I think running it in an unpacked source does something useful too but ICBW).
[11:25] <TheMuso> Ok thanks.
[11:33] <frenchy> persia: I've had 3 attempts at asking #ubuntu-mythtv to help test my application.  I've had very little response except one guy who was a KDE zealot (non-MOTU). superm1 came to my rescue and said that he'd second it if I could get someone to test because he's in the US and they don't use DVB.
[11:34] <frenchy> persia: Apart from that, I've had no luck.
[11:34] <persia> frenchy: That makes it easier, you only need one.  Of course, that might still be hard.  You might try asking in #ubuntu-testers, or on the ubuntu-users ML, or advertise in a blog post, but at least someone should test it and show it working before it gets uploaded.
[11:39] <frenchy> persia: Thanks.  Hear ye, Hear ye ... the Frenchy broadcasting system is on the air!
[11:39] <frenchy> Are there any MOTUs that have a DVB card (now including ATSC) that would like to try a very, very, most extremely awsome GNOME based DVB application?
[11:40] <frenchy> It has an EPG built into the interface ... this week only ... 2 for the price of one.
[11:41] <frenchy> persia: Do you think that it's my approach that's putting people off?
[11:41] <frenchy> :)
[11:41] <persia> frenchy: I don't know.  Do you have any users?
[11:41] <frenchy> persia: Yeah, all over the world.
[11:41] <persia> frenchy: Then why not get some of your users to "test", and write testimonials :)
[11:41] <frenchy> persia: But that might be because there's no alternative other then to go to KDE apps.
[11:43] <frenchy> persia: Hmmm ... Oh man ... yeah I've got some very pushy people ... I'm not sure that you want them ... who/where do they send these "death threats" to?
[11:44] <frenchy> persia: To the MOTU mailing list?
[11:44] <persia> frenchy: Hmm.  That's another interesting question.  I don't know the right answer.  I'm not sure about the MOTU ML, as when users request software there, sometimes it results in people telling them to go file a bug.
[11:45] <persia> Does anyone else have any ideas about how to connect frenchy's userbase with REVU advocates?
[11:46] <frenchy> Is ack'ing the same as advocating?
[11:48] <persia> frenchy: ACK is acknowledge.  We do that to confirm requests that need ~ubuntu-dev or ~ubuntu-core-dev approval, before being sent to the appropriate party.  We use "advocate" to describe the act of stating a package is fit for the archive on REVU.  These terms are often confused, so the answer may be yes.
[11:49] <frenchy> persia: Ta.
[11:57] <frenchy> Ok here's my last offer ... if there are any Canberrans in the audience ... I will drive to your house and give you my USB DVB-T card for a week.  :)
[11:59] <Hobbsee>  canberran.  crazy-type.
[12:01] <frenchy> Hobbsee:  Heeeelllllooooo ... did you read my last post.  I _am_ crazy ... I'm a developer on the edge.  :)
[12:10] <mok0> frenchy, perhaps you can help this guy: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/18814
[12:11] <mok0> frenchy: then he may even try out your app in return :-)
[12:13] <frenchy> mok0: Is he a MOTU?  I have plenty of users.  No MOTUs :(
[12:14] <mok0> frenchy: MOTUs are short in demand...
[12:14] <persia> (MOTUs with DVB cards who run GNOME more so...)
[12:15] <mok0> ... and living in Canberra...
[12:15] <persia> mok0: living in Canberra is only an alternative to having a DVB card.  DVB cards are available for home-delivery loan to MOTUs in Canberra.
[12:16] <minghua> Heh.  What is a DVB card BTW?
[12:17] <frenchy> Digital Video Broadcasting - Digital TV
[12:17] <frenchy> http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB_Standard
[12:17] <slytherin> Where do I add 'Homepage' field in control file, in 'Source' section or 'Package' section
[12:18] <mok0> frenchy: Is it streaming H264 video for digital TV?
[12:19] <frenchy> slytherin: Standards-Version: 3.7.2
[12:19] <frenchy> Homepage: https://launchpad.net/me-tv
[12:19] <frenchy> .
[12:19] <frenchy> .
[12:20] <minghua> Ah, not accepted in US.  No wonder I've never heard of it.
[12:20] <ScottK> slytherin: If you want to over-ride the source package's Homepage field on a per binary package basis you can do that too.
[12:21] <slytherin> ScottK: There is no homepage field as of now. So 'Source' is the right section, right?
[12:22] <frenchy> mok0: It might be ... but I don't think that it's part of the DVB standard which seems to be mostly MPEG2.
[12:23] <ScottK> slytherin: Yes.
[12:23] <mok0> frenchy: I don't think we can recieve DVB in Denmark yet
[12:23] <persia> mok0: It just depends on how much voltage you apply to your antenna :)
[12:24] <slytherin> mok0: According to this link, you are wrong. http://www.dvb.org/about_dvb/dvb_worldwide/denmark/
[12:25] <Ng> ooh, dvb :)
[12:26] <mok0> slytherin: "...Viasat and TDC organised the trial, which involved 20 participants."  :-(
[12:27] <Ng> it's doing pretty well generally in europe, so it may well appear in denmark and other places :)
[12:28] <frenchy> mok0: Really?  I have seen no mention of H264 of Linux TV ... but I don't know everything.  Thanks, I'll take a look.
[12:28] <mok0> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-T
[12:28] <Ng> there's been talk of HD DVB in the UK soon, which would kinda imply H.264 I suspect
[12:28] <Ng> there has also been talk of encrypting it :/
[12:29] <mok0> Which is cool because then you can dump TV directly on your iPod
[12:30] <mok0> Ng: Fortunately, we have DVD-Jon on our side ;-)
[12:30] <Ng> mok0: I dislike the idea of potentially breaking the law to watch a free service I'm funding with my TV licence though
[12:31] <slytherin> Ng: +1
[12:31] <mok0> Ng: Well, you know, if everybody breaks the law, then they'll have to change the law, wont they?
[12:31] <Ng> or put us all in prison ;)
[12:32] <slytherin> I would really like to have content available in theora/dirac as an option.
[12:32] <frenchy> Ohh ... is H.264 part of the new DVB-T/H thingo.  i.e. DVB-Handheld.
[12:32]  * persia suspects the "put everyone in prison, unless they fail to come to anyone's attention" model will be used.
[12:33] <mok0> Send all off to G'mo
[12:33] <frenchy> Ng: We have HD DVB here.  Are you telling me that they only have DVB in SD in the UK?
[12:33] <broonie> Mostly.
[12:34] <persia> mok0: From the UK?
[12:34] <mok0> persia: I'm in Denmark
[12:34] <broonie> There is an area in London with HD but for the most part there is no HD coverage.
[12:34] <Ng> frenchy: I think they have a single transponder going for tests in some areas, but otherwise yeah it's all SD
[12:34]  * persia thought that UK laws & DVB rollout was under discussion
[12:35]  * mok0 thinks that public TV is paid for by the public and should be _free_
[12:35] <broonie> They're switching everyone over to SD DVB and once that's done they're going to reuse the bandwidth used by the analogue bandwidth
[12:35] <broonie> for HD
[12:36] <broonie> s/bandwidth/broadcasts/
[12:38] <Ng> broonie: and boosting the SD DVB signal, aiui (which they badly need to do imo)
[12:39] <Ng> I have clear line of sight to Crystal Palace a few miles away and I still can't reliably watch all of the channels
[12:39]  * broonie got pretty good reception most of the time last time he used freeview.
[12:41] <frenchy> I don't understand, there's a ton of transmitters in the UK ... see /usr/share/doc/dvb-utils/examples/scan/dvb-t/uk-*
[12:41] <broonie> Almost all SD only.
[12:42] <frenchy> Yes, but digital/DVB at least, right.  So you get the extra services like EPG.
[12:43] <broonie> Yes.
[12:44] <mok0> a
[12:45] <frenchy> broonie:  Ng: are either one of you MOTUs with a DVB card?
[12:45] <mok0> mok's TLA vocabulary exhausted. Rebooting...
[12:45] <broonie> Sorry, I don't fulfil either criteria.
[12:45] <Ng> frenchy: I'm not a motu (yet) but I do have a DVB card (hauppauge pci nova-t) and I'm seriously considering getting a second (usb) one
[12:45] <slytherin> totem supports DVB viewing, doesn't it?
[12:45] <Ng> frenchy: I'd be happy to test stuff, but most of the time my card is being used by VDR ;)
[12:45] <somerville32> Why don't we have a developer directory like debian has?
[12:46] <Ng> slytherin: if it doesn't now it will do
[12:46] <slytherin> Ng: afaik, it is supported with xine backend. gstreamer support is coming up.
[12:46] <persia> somerville32: We have some of that info in Launchpad.
[12:46] <Ng> slytherin: that sounds about right
[12:46] <somerville32> persia, Not phone numbers
[12:47]  * persia appreciates that fact
[12:47]  * StevenK too
[12:47] <broonie> somerville32: I'm not sure how high quality the information in db.debian.org is, though.
[12:47] <broonie> And stuff like that is only accessible to DDs.
[12:48] <somerville32> lol
[12:48] <persia> broonie: Hmm..  Maybe it's not so bad then.  As long as random fredricktonians don't have my phone number, I'm less disturbed.
[12:49] <broonie> Yeah, that would be terrifying.
[12:49] <persia> Note that WHOIS used to have that for everyone interesting, but it was a shorted list back then...
[12:49] <frenchy> slytherin: totem-xine definitely does.
[12:49] <persia> s/ted/ter/
[12:51] <frenchy> Ng: yeah, there's a lot of people using VDR and Myth ... but they are full blown media centers.  My wife wanted to watch TV and surf the web like she did under win XP>
[12:51] <frenchy> .
[12:52] <Ng> frenchy: if your front end could talk to VDR so I don't have to use their horrific menus, you'd have me using it all the time, but I'm still happy to test stuff if you need it
[12:52]  * StevenK has evil plans for a Mythbuntu box
[12:55] <frenchy> Ng: I thought of doing that but both of them looked ridiculously crazy to set up.  It'
[12:57] <Ng> frenchy: vdr certainly isn't friendly ;)
[12:57] <frenchy> s a bit easier now with Mythbuntu.  But still there's a lot of complexity there that I thought was unnecessary.  Me TV needs nothing but a channel.conf ... and soon not even that.
[12:57] <Ng> frenchy: cool :)
[12:58] <frenchy> It stores the EPG in a local XML file.
[13:01] <frenchy> Ng: The other thing about them is that you need a remote or keyboard.  You can do everything with a mouse on Me TV ... it's all my wife needs to watch TV and surf the web.
[13:02] <frenchy> Ng: Sorry, I'm not Myth/VDR bashing ... they just don't suit me (or my wife).  They are great apps ... I like LinuxMCE ... it's looking real nice.
[13:04] <frenchy> So after several hours of rallying ... if anyone with a DVB card (MOTU or not) is interested in in trying my application.  It's on REVU at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=me-tv.  Or you can use my PPA at https://code.launchpad.net/~michael-lamothe/
[13:04] <frenchy> Sorry https://launchpad.net/~michael-lamothe/+archive
[13:09] <dholbach> gnarf.... I hate it, when I forget the tea I was just making - I usually remember when I spend an hour or something at "oh, let's take a short look at this problem again"
[13:11] <gpocentek> dholbach: there are simple applets which warns you when the tea is ready ;)
[13:11] <gpocentek> warn*
[13:12] <dholbach> yeah, I should use those
[13:13] <dholbach> ironically timer-applet was the first piece of software I ever packaged
[13:14] <gpocentek> :)
[13:22] <mok0> dholbach: kteatime - KDE utility for making a fine cup of tea
[13:22] <mok0> teatime - Gnome Panel applet to reminds you when your tea is ready
[13:23] <dholbach> :)
[13:23] <dholbach> thanks mok0
[13:23] <somerville32> What about xfce4?
[13:36] <mok0> What are the guidelines for setting the bug Status in LP?
[13:37] <somerville32> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugTriage
[13:41] <mok0> I still don't quite understand... when I upload a debdiff, I set the bug status to "Fix Released" or "Fix Committed"?
[13:42] <ScottK> Fix Committed.
[13:42] <norsetto> mok0: confirmed
[13:42] <ScottK> what norsetto said
[13:42] <norsetto> mok0: beautiful icons by the way
[13:42] <ScottK> Fix Released means it's in the archive.
[13:42] <mok0> norsetto: thanks :-)
[13:42] <txwikinger2> Does that also count upload to LP or only upload to bazaar?
[13:43] <ScottK> txwikinger2: Since upload to bazaar isn't in our work flow, I'm not sure why it would count for anything.
[13:43] <txwikinger2> ah .. ok
[13:44] <somerville32> ScottK, Bazaar not in our workflow?
[13:44] <ScottK> somerville32: Nope
[13:44] <somerville32> ScottK, A number of our packages are maintained in bazaar branches
[13:44] <ScottK> somerville32: Some individuals choose to do that, but it's not part of the standard MOTU work flow.
[13:44] <somerville32> Umm... I'm pretty sure there was an accepted spec
[13:45] <somerville32> Maybe it only applied to main
[13:45] <ScottK> If someone needs sponsorship, Bazaar  isn't the way to get the broadest audience
[13:45] <ScottK> somerville32: If you find something, let me know.
[13:46] <ScottK> somerville32: The canonical (sorry for the pun) source for Universe is a Debian source package.  Any VCS use is a convenience.
[13:46] <somerville32> ScottK, And if someone uploads the fix to bazaar then it is fix committed
[13:47] <ScottK> Sure.  By that definition though uploading a fix to any random web page counts too.
[13:47] <persia> somerville32: For upstream, yes.  For Ubuntu tasks, please no: Fix Committed typically means there was some upload, but something is happening oddly, and the results are not available.
[13:47] <somerville32> For example, we manage xubuntu-default-settings (along with a number of other packages) in bazaar
[13:48] <ScottK> somerville32: Who's the Maintainer for the package?
[13:48] <norsetto> mok0: this link: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue should cover all that concerns submitting bugs to the sponsors queue
[13:48] <txwikinger2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status -> Fix Committed
[13:48] <somerville32> If I fix a bug on xubuntu-default-settings in the bazaar branch but I didn't upload it, I'm going to mark it fix committed
[13:48] <mok0> norsetto: thanks, will take a look!
[13:48] <norsetto> mok0: thanks, if you find anything confusing or unclear let us know
[13:49]  * persia reviews w.u.c/Bugs/Status and hops that Bzr maintained packages that follow that workflow have special teams set in the Maintainer field.
[13:49] <persia> s/ps/pes/
[13:49] <somerville32> "Fix Committed is not to be used when a patch is attached to a bug"
[13:49]  * ScottK agrees with persia.  Such packages are outside the normal MOTU workflow and can pretty well do what they want.
[13:49] <ScottK> somerville32: Where's that from?
[13:50] <somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
[13:50] <txwikinger2> ScottK:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
[13:50] <persia> somerville32: You're describing a valid workflow, but not the one that MOTU tends to use.  Both are good, but they are different.
[13:50] <somerville32> "#
[13:50] <somerville32> For package maintainers, the changes are pending and to be uploaded soon (it's what PENDINGUPLOAD was in Bugzilla)
[13:50] <somerville32> #
[13:50] <somerville32> Fix Committed is also used when an updated package exists in a -proposed repository i.e. feisty-proposed"
[13:51] <mok0> norsetto: It is not clear from the description if it is the contributor or the sponsor who is allowed to set the bug status
[13:51] <persia> somerville32: We typically use Fix Committed to mean "it's in -proposed", or "it's in unaccepted", or "the uploader made a stupid mistake, and is chasing it now".
[13:51] <mok0> norsetto: In fact, it appears to be the sponsor...
[13:51] <norsetto> mok0: the first section is for contributors, the second for sponsors, and you are right that it could be marked better
[13:51] <ScottK> somerville32: I'm pretty sure that's somewhat obsolete.  There was a big discussion on one of the ML recently about this topic.
[13:52] <ScottK> mok0: Please edit it to clarify (once you understand) as this has long been a weakness in our documentation.
[13:52] <somerville32> Fix Committed seems, to me, redundant to Fix Released for package maintainers
[13:52] <persia> mok0: Both set it at various times.  When uploading a debdiff, please set to "Confirmed".  The sponsor will leave it in "Fix Commited" when they upload, and the changelog should change to "Fix Released".  The sponsor may set "In progress" at some point if they think it will take a while.
[13:53] <persia> somerville32: In most cases, yes, which is why it is currently used for exceptional cases (like -proposed or unaccepted)
[13:53]  * somerville32 nods.
[13:53] <mok0> Confusion complete.
[13:54] <RainCT> Hi
[13:54] <somerville32> Hi
[13:54] <txwikinger2> mok0: yes
[13:54] <persia> mok0: I do apologize if I've managed to move all of somerville32's confusion to you by my mixed remarks.  Perhaps you'd like to ask a new question, and I'll try to answer more clearly?
[13:55] <ScottK> txwikinger2: Please don't subscrbie Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe to bugs.
[13:55] <ScottK> txwikinger2: I suspect it's ubuntu-universe-sponsors you wanted.
[13:55] <mok0> persia: norsetto said that the contributor should set status -> Fix committed when uploading a debdiff, shortly after you said the sponsor should do it...
[13:55] <txwikinger2> ok. sorry. I got confused
[13:56] <ScottK> txwikinger2: Not a huge deal.  I unsubbed Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe, but didn't subscribe anyone.  Leaving that for you.
[13:56] <norsetto> mok0: I said confirmed, not fix committed
[13:56] <txwikinger2> Thanks ScottK: I appreciate that
[13:56] <mok0> norsetto: ok, sorry for misquoting you
[13:57] <norsetto> mok0: its correct that the sponsor should set it to fix committed when he uploads
[13:57] <ScottK> mok0: That was me and I said just after to follow what norsetto said.
[13:57] <persia> mok0: The wiki page is right.  Not every sponsor sets "Fix Committed" when they upload, but most tend to do so.  In the normal case, the changelog sets "Fix Released" within a couple minutes, so it usually doesn't matter.
[13:57] <RainCT> persia: tomorrow is CC :)
[13:58] <norsetto> do we really need to include that the sponsors queue should be used for freeze exceptions?
[13:58] <mok0> ScottK :-) I thought norsetto's "confirmed" meant he confirmed what you said
[13:58] <norsetto> or should we rather says after a freeze exception has been granted .....
[13:58] <persia> RainCT: Yep.  Unfortunately, it's at 16:00 UTC.  I'm not sure I'll be up that late, but will put a testimonial on your wiki page if I get too tired.
[13:59] <norsetto> mok0: I always confirm what scottk says (he has a big gun)
[13:59] <RainCT> persia: ok, thanks :)
[13:59] <mok0> :-D
[14:01] <persia> norsetto: I'd rather keep it vague.  I consider there to be two purposes: 1) upload requests, and 2) ACK requests for teams that reject requests from non-ubuntu-dev (e.g. archive-admins).  If we get freeze exception requests or SUR requests, those should just be pushed to the right team.
[14:02] <persia> The idea being that it's easier for people to always subscribe U-U-S than try to remember everything, and it's not that much trouble to redirect if required.
[14:05] <mok0> Clarification of contributor workflow made in the wiki
[14:08] <persia> mok0: Nice, small, clear change.  Thanks.
[14:09] <txwikinger2> mok0: where?
[14:09] <mok0> txwikinger2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
[14:10] <txwikinger2> Thanks mok0
[14:25] <norsetto> can you guys please review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue ? I made few changes that I would like you to check
[14:26] <norsetto> note that syncrequest sets the bug status to new so, should we change the wiki page to "New" as an acceptable status for sync requests or should we file a bug against syncrequest?
[14:26]  * persia notes that the "patch tag" might be going away soon, but not to remove it yet
[14:27] <mok0> norsetto: did you save it? I don't see your mods
[14:28] <norsetto> mok0: yes, perhpas my wireless is acting again, so, check in few seconds
[14:29] <mok0> norsetto: see them now
[14:29] <persia> norsetto: Looks good.  We'll likely need to update for the updated SRU and UVFe processes at some point, but worth waiting for those teams to review their processes as the cycle proceeds.
[14:29] <geser> norsetto: afaik requestsync sets requests that need sponsoring on purpose to New and the sponsor sets it to Confirmed when ACKed
[14:30] <afflux> Hi! I'd like to get my package in universe, so could any motu please have a second look at it (dholbach already had one): http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=gdecrypt ? Thanks!
[14:30] <persia> norsetto: Also, I've nearly been convinced that interdiff isn't helpful, and am working on a process for a less confusing replacement.
[14:30] <norsetto> geser: exactly, right now we specified "Incomplete" in the wiki page
[14:31] <norsetto> persia: ok, lets change it then once that is done (I made a note to myself)
[14:31] <geser> is the "sync" tag used by someone?
[14:31] <persia> norsetto: That was my thought.  Let's target this cycle to get sponsorship properly documented, and try to sort coordination with main as well.
[14:32] <persia> geser: Probably only me.
[14:32] <jdong> persia: I found interdiff reconstruction to be quite painful yesterday while reviewing/sponsoring somerville32's perl module...
[14:32] <jdong> persia: though I found the interdiff itself to be very helpful in reviewing
[14:32] <geser> I didn't set the "sync" tag to any sync requests that I filed.
[14:32] <persia> jdong: That seems to be the regular feedback.  I'm looking at a couple alternatives.
[14:33] <norsetto> geser: I did for most, but forgot for some ....
[14:33] <jdong> persia: maybe we can do an addon to REVU to facilitate reviewing new upstream releases, and it can generate interdiffs, debdiffs, and dgettable dsc's?
[14:33] <persia> norsetto: Yes, but that's likely because I wrote somewhere that you should.  geser has a good point that it's likely useless.
[14:34] <norsetto> persia: yes, I dutifully followed the procedure (well, almost dutifully...)
[14:34] <geser> IMHO the "Note for sponsors" could need a better structure as the list is rather longish
[14:34] <persia> jdong: I'm incredibly opposed to downloading an orig.tar.gz supplied by anyone not upstream and not in ~ubuntu-dev, so I won't support that, but it's not a bad idea in abstract.  The REVU code is open, and the team is always happy to get patch candidates.
[14:35] <geser> is it possible to move the "main" point into their own subsections?
[14:35] <xhaker> Hobbsee, can you please sponsor bug #164577 since you were the last uploader?
[14:35] <norsetto> geser: please do :-)
[14:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164577 in libmtp "libmtp 0.2.2-2 merge from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164577
[14:35]  * Hobbsee waits on ubotu
[14:35] <xhaker> heh took him a bit :)
[14:35] <Hobbsee> erm, not really
[14:36] <xhaker> Hobbsee, why? i did the merge already
[14:36] <jdong> persia: well there's gotta be a way for REVU to generate a trustable orig.tar.gz or perform/provide a review mechanism for the orig
[14:36] <Hobbsee> because there's a comment on the bug from doko, and i need to look at it and think about it, and it's not to do with polarizing fibres.
[14:37] <xhaker> there is a comment from doko?
[14:37] <xhaker> it must be a secret comment
[14:37] <Hobbsee> on the one from before, yeah
[14:38] <xhaker> Hobbsee, can you please direct it to me? i don't think i've seen that
[14:39] <persia> jdong:  The problem is that a .dsc has a md5sum for an orig.tar.gz, and would break for repacks, unless it was regenerated.  I think forcing reliable orig.tar.gz is for the next generation review system (see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spec/ReviewProcessConvergence)
[14:42] <geser> norsetto: done, IMHO it's better now
[14:43] <norsetto> geser: oh yes, much more readable
[14:43] <persia> geser: That's a nice set of changes.
[14:46] <proppy> はい
[14:46] <norsetto> looks like the tags in the sru sections are outdated, but most probably will be valid again soon
[14:46] <norsetto> proppy: はい
[14:47] <persia> That's not a greeting!
[14:47] <norsetto> persia: yes, and I meant it
[14:48] <proppy> persia: hi
[14:48] <proppy> :)
[14:49] <norsetto> proppy: do they relly write all this "私は持っている" for "I have" !?
[14:50] <proppy> norsetto: かんじ　わかりません　(I don't understand kanji yet)
[14:51] <norsetto> proppy: arigato
[14:51] <persia> Only in special contexts.  Usually the topic marker is implied by context (but this is well off topic)
[14:51] <proppy> norsetto: I don't understand all the character so I can't help you with this yet
[14:51] <persia> e.g. "持っている" or even "持って" is typically sufficient.
[14:51] <StevenK> I'm vaguely curious as to what's proppy's not-a-greeting was
[14:52] <norsetto> persia: ok, seems more logical
[14:52] <proppy> norsetto: you should ask persia he looks like a accurate japanese writer :)
[14:52] <norsetto> stevenk: altavista told me is "it is"
[14:52] <StevenK> Ha
[14:53] <proppy> norsetto: from what I've understand there were more than way to say a single thing, depend of the context and the people you're talking to
[14:53] <norsetto> proppy: please use the referential obsequios form when talking to me
[14:54] <norsetto> obsequoious?
[14:54] <norsetto> obsequient?
[14:54] <norsetto> oh well, use the referential one
[14:54] <persia> norsetto: You don't want that.  It would take several buffers to say hello.
[14:54] <StevenK> Haha
[14:54] <persia> reverential?
[14:54] <proppy> norsetto: どぞ　よろしく　おねがいします
[14:54] <norsetto> oh $deity
[14:55]  * norsetto goes to untie his tongue
[14:55] <proppy> norsetto: (it means take care of me, IIRC)
[14:55] <persia> proppy: Just as a matter of correction: "かんじをまだわかりません"
[14:56] <proppy> persia: をまだ ?
[14:56] <persia> proppy: Not quite.  It means "here you go"  "very polite 'goodness'"  "please do the favor of making"
[14:56] <persia> proppy: object marker, "yet, still"
[14:57] <proppy> persia: ok, わたし　をまだ　たべません
[14:58] <persia> Err.  Don't never use no double negatives
[14:58] <proppy> persia: :)
[15:01]  * txwikinger2 is dissy due to the fact that his client does not show utf8
[15:02] <txwikinger2> later
[15:26] <Hobbsee> !packagingguide
[15:26] <ubotu> packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
[15:27] <mok0> What is the Standards-Version that allows for a Homepage: tag?
[15:34] <persia> mok0: Ideally, you'd be running dpkg >= 1.14.7
[15:34] <mok0> persia: the current one is 3.7.2
[15:36] <persia> mok0: Right, but the Homepage: header isn't even in 3.7.2.2.  It's very very new, and mostly documented in lintian and dpkg at this point.  lintian is merged to Ubuntu, but dpkg is still outstanding, so even in hardy, it's a little odd.
[15:37] <mok0> persia: ok, thanks. But where can I find a description of those standards? Google just gives me a bunch of ML posts
[15:38] <geser> mok0: policy is often a little bit behind as a change need to show that is it used/works before it gets included into policy
[15:38] <persia> mok0: debian-policy is best examined from the debian-policy package.  Specific lintian and linda tests are best examined in those packages, and the dpkg changelog that created "Homepage:" is available from http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/dpkg/current/changelog#versionversion1.14.7
[15:38] <mok0> persia: ... but, then I can't really put a Homepage: field, _and_ a Standards-Version: 3.7.2 at the same time ? That would be a bug, right?
[15:39] <geser> mok0: you might also want to look at the bugs for policy and the developer-reference
[15:39] <persia> mok0: No, as policy doesn't specify you can't have a Homepage field.
[15:39] <mok0> So, that means that unrecognized fields are just ignored?
[15:40] <persia> mok0: Right, which means everything with a compliant Homepage: header built before the dpkg merge will either have a missing Homepage: or need to be rebuilt, but that's OK.
[15:41] <mok0> persia: ok, thanks. I will browse the link above...
[15:43] <mok0> Btw, it seems that Debian have started to incorporate git into their workflow. How will that affect Ubuntu?
[15:43] <persia> mok0: Not at all: we import source packages post-git.
[15:44] <mok0> persia: It's kinda neat, though
[15:44] <mok0> I'd like to use it myself
[15:44] <persia> mok0: Go ahead :)
[15:45] <mok0> hehe
[15:45] <mok0> I think they are using branches to store versions of the software instead of parallel directory trees... which is neat
[15:46] <mok0> Also, it is easy to merge your debian/ tree into a new software release
[15:47] <mok0> of course dpkg_* needs to know about .git so it can ignore it appropriately.
[15:48] <persia> mok0: That should be merged in the next couple weeks :)
[15:48] <mok0> persia: cool
[15:49] <mok0> Unfortunately, canonical seems committed to bazaar
[15:50] <mok0> Although I gather you could have an equivalent workflow there
[15:56] <persia> mok0: Doesn't really matter: each package is different.  It's convenient to manage in bzr as LP is bzr, but several Ubuntu-maintained packages are in git (x.org, kernel, etc.).
[15:57] <mok0> persia: yes, but we can't make use of git's capabilities when submitting patches etc
[16:15] <effie_jayx> Could anyone help me find a bug I could work on...
[16:16] <effie_jayx> I have tried 4 bugs now and I can't seem to find my way to contribute with a fix
[16:16] <norsetto> effie_jayx: have you tried checking for the packaging tag?
[16:17] <dholbach> effie_jayx: I'm sure seb128 wants me to answer http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO here :)
[16:17] <norsetto> effie_jayx: don't listen to dholbach, he wants to bring you to the DARK side .....
[16:17] <effie_jayx> lol
[16:17] <dholbach> hahaha
[16:17] <dholbach> norsetto: that's seb128 :)
[16:18] <effie_jayx> is there a MOTU darkside?
[16:18] <effie_jayx> hehe
[16:18] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  I know of the wiki for bugs
[16:18] <norsetto> dholbach: isn't he dark?
[16:18] <effie_jayx> but its seems to me I ma not up to packaging just yet
[16:18] <dholbach> no, not really
[16:18] <effie_jayx> there are some tricks to it than just following the recipe...
[16:18] <effie_jayx> dholbach,  remember that bug we where looking at the other day
[16:19] <dholbach> yeah, that was definitely not an easy one
[16:19] <dholbach> what about the other 'upgrade' bugs?
[16:19] <effie_jayx> I tried 2 more
[16:19] <effie_jayx> and nothing :(
[16:19] <effie_jayx> I want to see if I do a new bug with a little help choosing
[16:20] <effie_jayx> I might be picking tough ones...
[16:20] <norsetto> effie_jayx: packaging bugs are not requests for packaging, are bug which (most probably) are in the packaging for packages already made
[16:20] <effie_jayx> norsetto, :S
[16:21] <norsetto> effie_jayx: for instance, this look ok for you: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/120064
[16:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120064 in ghc6 "no manpage for ghc-pkg" [Low,Confirmed]
[16:21] <RainCT> effie_jayx: bugs about .desktop files are usually easy
[16:21] <norsetto> effie_jayx: if you do that, don't forget to send the man page to debian too
[16:21] <effie_jayx> RainCT,  thanks for the heads up :D
[16:23] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  let me see what I can do
[16:23]  * jdong looks for a volunteer to package eclipse 3.3 ;-)
[16:23] <RainCT> effie_jayx: np :)
[16:24] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  if upstream does not have the manpage I have to make it?
[16:24] <norsetto> effie_jayx: yes
[16:25] <norsetto> effie_jayx: you can get info about the command with --help
[16:26] <norsetto> effie_jayx: and/or look in what documentation is provided, either with the package or upstream
[16:26] <effie_jayx> and I'm sure there is a guideline somewhere !
[16:29] <xhaker> jdong, hello
[16:29] <norsetto> effie_jayx: there is a ghc6-doc package too which may contain some good info on that command
[16:29] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  Glasgow Haskell Compilation 6 ???
[16:29] <xhaker> jdong, i'm interested in packaging eclipse 3.3
[16:29] <effie_jayx> that should have quite a few command entries
[16:29] <norsetto> effie_jayx: yes, yet another language for braindamaged hackers
[16:30] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  I appreciate your bug suggestion ;)
[16:30] <norsetto> effie_jayx: you can do man pages in tow ways
[16:30] <norsetto> effie_jayx: sorry, two
[16:31] <norsetto> effie_jayx: the I'm-a-real-man way; just a text editor and you
[16:31] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  yep... I am taking the challenge
[16:31] <RainCT> effie_jayx: there are many manpages in ubuntu-dev-tools if you want to have a look at some
[16:31] <jdong> xhaker: awesome :)
[16:32] <jdong> xhaker: I just have packages blocked by our lack of swt-gtk 3.3, so eclipse 3.3 is on my wishlist :)
[16:32] <effie_jayx> RainCT,  that would be usefull
[16:32] <xhaker> jdong, debian doesn't even have 3.3 yet
[16:32] <effie_jayx> there is also a script, right? dh_make for generating a template
[16:32] <effie_jayx> ?
[16:32] <jdong> xhaker: that is correct.
[16:33] <norsetto> effie_jayx: no, thats for a package skeleton
[16:33] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  ohhh
[16:33] <effie_jayx> ... ok
[16:33] <xhaker> jdong, i am willing to help there.. but i don't think that it is possible yet.. because of build-deps?
[16:33] <norsetto> effie_jayx: a couple of links I found uselful when I did my first man page (there might be better, just google around): http://www.linuxfocus.org/English/November2003/article309.shtml
[16:34] <jdong> xhaker: which build-deps?
[16:34] <RainCT> effie_jayx: dh_make creates a manpage template amongst the other files, but I usually just copy a random one and edit that one
[16:34] <norsetto> effie_jayx: and this: http://www.linux.com/articles/34212
[16:35] <RainCT> effie_jayx: ubuntu-dev-tools manpages can be browsed here if you don't want to download the source: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/files/themuso%40ubuntu.com-20071123205005-vg8k0ulftvw4k0s3?file_id=doc-20070809144355-bx46lrf0wsr2xktw-1
[16:36] <xhaker> jdong, i might be mistaken.. in relation to that, eclipse build failed on i386 but not on lpia, that is strange.. can you trigger a rebuild?
[16:36] <xhaker> jdong, i don't know who sponsored the upload.. but since you're interested
[16:36] <norsetto> effie_jayx: apparently peter was very concerned about man pages for ghc6: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ghc6/+bug/95985
[16:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 95985 in ghc6 "no manpage for runghc / runhaskell" [Wishlist,New]
[16:37] <norsetto> effie_jayx: so you can close two bugs with a stone ....
[16:38] <effie_jayx> so I prepare the manpage
[16:38] <effie_jayx> and package the thing again with the new manpage
[16:38] <jdong> xhaker: I don't have the power to trigger a rebuild :)
[16:38] <effie_jayx> I'll get the manpage ready and I will be back here...
[16:38] <norsetto> effie_jayx: yes, see my other messages too
[16:39] <xhaker> jdong, ;) #ubuntu-java
[16:39] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  I opened up the links and I am willing to work on it
[16:39] <norsetto> effie_jayx: I mean, about the other bug
[16:39] <jdong> xhaker: well I've got an exam in 10m, gonna leave things in your hands :)
[16:39] <jdong> have fun!
[16:39] <jdong> *vanishes*
[16:40] <norsetto> bug 95985 | effie_jayx
[16:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 95985 in ghc6 "no manpage for runghc / runhaskell" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95985
[16:40] <xhaker> hah, too bad.. i thought i had someone to chat about it :D
[16:40] <effie_jayx> there is one ... but it doesnt cover runghc
[16:40]  * effie_jayx check to reproduce bug
[17:40] <joejaxx> Good Morning All :)
[17:41] <brainsik> good morning
[17:41] <RainCT> morning joejaxx
[17:45] <brainsik> Once I get a debdiff patch onto a bug report, how do I go about getting someone to use it and rollout a new package?
[17:53] <effie_jayx> one can build stuff off a debdiff right?
[17:54] <brainsik> I assume so. This is how I recently got a security patch released.
[17:54] <RainCT> effie_jayx: what do you mean? you can apply to the source and build it then
[17:54] <effie_jayx> RainCT,  ajam
[18:07] <jdong> effie_jayx: provided that it's not for a new upstream version, correct, a debdiff is sufficient to reconstruct a modified source package
[18:08] <effie_jayx> jdong,  thanks for the clarification
[18:08] <jdong> effie_jayx: sure thing :) I love your road-to-MOTU diary btw :)
[18:10] <effie_jayx> jdong,  I am bit behind ...
[18:11] <effie_jayx> but working overtime...
[18:13] <jdong> effie_jayx: no worries, there's all the time in the world :) Good luck on your journey!
[18:13] <effie_jayx> thanks
[18:14] <mok0> effie_jayx: Link to your diary?
[18:14] <effie_jayx> mok0, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EfrainValles/MOTUJourne
[18:14] <effie_jayx> are you starting out as well?
[18:14] <effie_jayx> mok0, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EfrainValles/MOTUJourney
[18:14] <mok0> Got, thanks!
[18:16] <mok0> effie_jayx: Hey, cool, I think I can learn something too!
[18:16] <effie_jayx> mok0,  today's entry should be interesting
[18:17]  * mok0 anticipates in excitement...
[18:17] <effie_jayx> there is more than editing text when you make a manpage...
[18:19] <jdong> effie_jayx: isn't that a part of the passage to manhood? ;-)
[18:19] <norsetto> mok0: you should make him some icons for his log ;-)
[18:20] <mok0> Hehe, yeah would be cool
[18:20] <norsetto> effie_jayx: if you need help for your man pages ask jdong, he is a MASTER for those :-)
[18:20] <jdong> aaaahhhhhh *runs*
[18:20] <norsetto> * cough *
[18:21] <mok0> effie_jayx: I hear the last part of the initiation is _secret_ :-)
[18:21] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  I am doing ok...
[18:21] <effie_jayx> mok0,  and yet very optional
[18:21] <effie_jayx> ;)
[18:23] <mok0> effie_jayx: You dress up in women's clothes and go around in bars... with a live penguin strapped to your head, making funny noises
[18:24]  * effie_jayx drops MOTU journey
[18:24] <effie_jayx> lol
[18:24] <effie_jayx> not very encouraging...
[18:24] <mok0> :-)
[18:25] <mok0> effie_jayx: You have to prove you are worthy
[18:25] <effie_jayx> of?
[18:25] <mok0> joing the ranks of the MOTU
[18:25] <mok0> :)
[18:25] <RainCT> haha
[18:27] <ScottK> effie_jayx: Of course that diary doesn't actually start at the beginning of the story.
[18:27] <effie_jayx> ScottK,  it doesn't
[18:27] <effie_jayx> :D
[18:27]  * ScottK recalls you doing at least a clamav merge (with some help) before.
[18:28] <effie_jayx> ScottK,  I did say some playing around with the tools... but If I had said something like... I played around with tools with the help of ScottK, it could have led to misinterpretations
[18:29] <effie_jayx> ;)
[18:29] <effie_jayx> ScottK,  credit is due...
[18:29] <ScottK> LongPointyStick: Please note the next CC meeting ~23 hours from now and who's going up for membership.  You may want to show up.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[18:29] <nenolod> http://lwn.net/Articles/257629/ <- a [misaccurate] story about in-progress deprecation of XMMS in Ubuntu universe and Debian and discussing Audacious (and also getting the details wrong on that, but oh well)
[18:29] <ScottK> Other MOTUs who are fans of certain people may appreciate being at that meeting too.
[18:30] <effie_jayx> ScottK,  you are the most patient person I know...
[18:30] <ScottK> effie_jayx: Thanks.
[18:30]  * ScottK laughs at that thought.  You must not know many people ;-)
[18:31] <nenolod> i don't know anyone applying for membership on that list. oh well ;p
[18:31] <nenolod> wait, no.
[18:31] <nenolod> i do.
[18:31] <nenolod> but i'm not familiar with their contributions to ubuntu
[18:36]  * RainCT thinks cdbs rocks
[18:37]  * mok0 agrees with RainCT 
[18:37]  * LaserJock runs from the black magic
[18:38] <RainCT> is there a way to automatically install the dependencies for a .deb?
[18:39] <LaserJock> RainCT: how do you mean?
[18:39] <Pici> gdebi does it iirc.
[18:39] <jdong> RainCT: (1) gdebi (2) install the deb, then apt-get -f install
[18:39] <mok0> debootstrap?
[18:39] <jdong> RainCT: I prefer #1
[18:39] <Pici> Me too.
[18:40] <RainCT> gdebi just complains about the dependency here
[18:40] <RainCT> and doesn't let me install
[18:40] <nenolod> is the dependency in the ubuntu archive?
[18:40] <LaserJock> I prefer 2)
[18:40] <RainCT> I think so
[18:40] <jdong> RainCT: then that means one of the deps is not available
[18:40] <jdong> or is not the right version
[18:41] <norsetto> rainct: you may also want to have a local archive for that
[18:41] <RainCT> ah it might not be there.. I build it for hardy
[18:41] <jdong> you are trying to install a hardy binary in Gutsy?
[18:42] <RainCT> I *do* install hardy binaries in gutsy :)
[18:42] <RainCT> I even have hardy in the sources.list (with a lower priority so that it only installs from there when I want)
[18:43]  * LaserJock thinks you are nuts
[18:43] <RainCT> but yes you are right, gdebi installs dependency now that I think about it, I guess I'll have to rebuild this one. thanks
[18:43] <RainCT> hah
[18:44] <LaserJock> RainCT: that's what a gutsy pbuilder is for, so you can make gutsy .debs :-)
[18:45] <RainCT> well, actually you could make gutsy debs with dpkg-buildpackage
[18:45] <LaserJock> yeah, but that's kinda nasty
[18:45] <LaserJock> you have to install build deps and it can mess with your source package
[18:46] <RainCT> yeh, that's true
[18:47] <jdong> RainCT: you are nuts :)
[18:47] <jdong> RainCT: it's not at all a good idea to be mixing Gutsy and Hardy at a binary level...
[18:47] <jdong> if that actually worked with any level of reliability there would never have been Backports :)
[18:49] <LaserJock> jdong: you can get away with quite a bit depending on what kind of package it is
[18:50] <LaserJock> I'm writing a part of a book about packages and covering some backports
[18:50] <jdong> LaserJock: before long it'll pull in a dependency chain that involves Hardy versions of core libraries
[18:50] <LaserJock> and I was looking at all the PHP webapps, and of course most of them are binary compatible
[18:50] <jdong> LaserJock: people have tried pin-priority mixing of N and N+1 over at the forums from prehistoric times, and it almost always resulted in at least one unbootable-system report a month
[18:51] <jdong> I suppose someone with solid technical experience can deal with this situation better than the average forum user though ;-)
[18:51] <LaserJock> sure
[18:51] <LaserJock> I was just surprised actually how compatible some packages are
[18:52] <RainCT> well, I tend to avoid installing stuff that depends on newer versions of already installed libraries, or that needs a lot of dependencies from hardy
[18:52] <LaserJock> I went through several _all packages installing gutsy .debs on dapper
[18:52] <jdong> but ultimately it's something that I would never do to any of my systems, and is quite unsupported. If I saw a bug report for a package under my care for such a system configuration, I'd probably reject the bug report until they set up a less insane environment and reproduce.
[18:52] <jdong> LaserJock: well _all's are typically a good exception :)
[18:52] <LaserJock> jdong: right, that's why I said it kind of depends on what kind of package it is
[18:52] <jdong> RainCT: if you often need to mix hardy and gutsy, look at prevu </shameless_plug>
[18:52] <LaserJock> it's easy to pick some examples that are very binary compatible
[18:53] <jdong> it is an automatic backporter that uses just one command, and even produces a local APT repo
[18:53] <jdong> i.e. prevu foobar; apt-get update; apt-get install foobar
[18:55] <RainCT> jdong: ah, sounds interesting. but I only have like 30 hardy packages anyways, so it isn't really worth it
[18:56] <LaserJock> 30?!?
[18:56] <imbrandon> 30!
[18:56] <imbrandon> heya fellas
[18:57] <RainCT> *rather 20
[18:57] <jdong> that's quite a bit :)
[18:57] <LaserJock> hmm
[18:57] <jdong> I'd seriously recommend using a personal backporter, like prevu or pbuilder
[18:58] <LaserJock> you guys ever wonder in -changes if a package is Main or Universe?
[18:58] <jdong> prevu will probably be easier on you in that it creates an apt repo and also mangles versions automatically
[18:58] <jdong> LaserJock: sometimes, yeah, though over time I've gotten a rough feel for what's in main and otherwise.
[18:58] <imbrandon> LaserJock: not really, but i coul see how some could
[18:58] <jdong> it'd be nice for the subject line or contents to note that more explicitly
[18:59] <imbrandon> it'd be niceer to only have main + multiverse
[18:59] <imbrandon> :)
[18:59] <imbrandon> err main + non-free
[19:00] <imbrandon> seperation causes more work for little gain
[19:00] <jdong> I agree
[19:00] <jdong> the support line drawn in practice is not all that useful for the average end user
[19:01] <jdong> though I'm not sure how important it is to canonical's support services
[19:01] <jdong> I presume quite helpful for the fine print on their contracts ;-)
[19:03] <LaserJock> well
[19:03] <RainCT> jdong: that prevu works only for stuff in repos, or?
[19:03] <RainCT> nvm :P
[19:05]  * RainCT is going to do some python stuff before you kill me ;)
[19:05] <LaserJock> I'm wanting to have an RSS feed of -changes (I get that now from Seveas) but I'd like to know easily if packages are in Main or Universe
[19:06] <LaserJock> I wonder if I can have a script that parses his RSS feed and then adds in that info
[19:06] <LaserJock> then spits out the feed again so I can put it into Google Reader
[19:09] <RainCT> LaserJock: where is that feed?
[19:09] <LaserJock> http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/rss/
[19:10] <imbrandon> LaserJock: yea should be fairly simple
[19:10] <LaserJock> I can either screen-scrape LP for  component or rely on my local machine's apt cache
[19:11] <imbrandon> i would use the apt-cache for speed
[19:11] <RainCT> wow, that ubuntu-nl guys have everything lol
[19:16] <jdong> RainCT: prevu can build from anything you want
[19:16] <jdong> RainCT: apt, .dsc URL, a debianized source in the pwd, and even directly from LP
[19:16] <RainCT> jdong: if I give it cement will it build me a house? :)
[19:16] <jdong> RainCT: ;-) file a feature request :D
[19:19] <RainCT> jdong: done :)
[19:19] <RainCT> /me looks how jdong runs to check it
[19:19] <adx> can someone take a look at a debdiff for me? i saw a simple bug and figured i'd try to fix it
[19:19] <RainCT> adx: url? :)
[19:19] <adx> http://www.tasteslikeburning.net/checkgmail_1.12-1ubuntu2.debdiff
[19:19] <adx> want to make sure the formatting is correct before i attach it to the bug
[19:20] <RainCT> adx: there's a typo in the changelog: configueration ;)
[19:20] <jdong> adx: (1) consolidate bullet point, the * checkgmail is not necessary
[19:20] <RainCT> closes: should be LP: if it's a bug in Launchpad
[19:20] <jdong> adx: (2) closes: should be LP:
[19:20] <RainCT> (Closes: is for bugs.debian.net)
[19:21] <imbrandon> and gutsy should be hardy
[19:21] <jdong> bug 164187
[19:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164187 in checkgmail "Unsafe permissions on configuration directory" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164187
[19:21] <jdong> adx: IMO the fix is incomplete
[19:22] <jdong> a bad default permissions dir created by an earlier version is not fixed by this release.
[19:22] <adx> jdong: good point
[19:24] <jdong> adx: a better fix would be to refuse to start if any of the world permission bits are set, and off the user to chmod it o-rwx or abort and fix it themselves
[19:24] <jdong> s/off/offer/
[19:25] <jdong> and who approved this package for Universe in the first place?
[19:25] <jdong> or is that a Debian-synced-over issue?
[19:26] <jdong> I am shocked that it has a permission 777 mkdir hardcoded
[19:28] <adx> it's actually an upstream issue. i was going to send the patch for the source to them also
[19:28] <jdong> good judgement
[19:31] <effie_jayx> norsetto, http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1462
[19:35] <lousygarua> hello
[19:38] <effie_jayx> lousygarua,  hello
[19:39] <lousygarua> effie_jayx, you happen to know by chance what is the base package for burning cd/dvd's? i'm having difficulty burning things no matter what software i use
[19:41] <effie_jayx> lousygarua,  sorry ... I don't
[19:41] <lousygarua> effie_jayx, ah well, nevermind then.
[19:45] <oly-> i am trying to make a deb with dpkg-debhelper, im stuck on secret key not available when it hits the gpg bit, why would it be unavailable ?
[19:45] <oly-> where should i be looking ?
[19:45] <geser> oly-: do you have a gpg key?
[19:46] <oly-> yes, and i put it on launchpad, as i read in the packaging guide
[19:46] <RainCT> oly-: have you set the DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL global variables to the same values as your key?
[19:46] <oly-> hum, that i did not do, :p
[19:46] <geser> oly-: does the "author" in the last changelog entry match your key uid incl. the comment (if used)?
[19:48] <oly-> okay, couple of things to check, i thought it was saying there was a problem with my key, :p
[19:48] <oly-> i shall look into both of those and see if i can figure out where i have gone wrong
[19:48] <geser> oly-: debsign uses the name from the " -- [...]" line at the end of the changelog entry to find the correct key
[19:49] <geser> and the uid must match exactly
[19:52] <geser> DktrKranz: Hi, I got my script running on http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~geser/build_status/
[19:52] <DktrKranz> geser, nice. Did you solve rmadison -u issue?
[19:52] <geser> DktrKranz: yes, I copied rmadison from hardy to my home
[19:53] <DktrKranz> ah, nice workaround :)
[19:53] <geser> and also fixed the template as I used features from genshi 0.4
[19:53] <DktrKranz> geser, nice colours too! So we should redirect qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ to your link
[19:54] <geser> DktrKranz: yes, please
[19:54] <geser> DktrKranz: I didn't setup a cronjob for it yet
[19:55] <DktrKranz> Fujitsu, mind moving qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs to http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~geser/build_status/ =
[19:55] <DktrKranz> ?
[19:59] <oly-> geser, you say i need to match the comment as well, is that in the order username comment e-mail
[19:59] <oly-> because i do have a comment in there
[19:59] <geser> oly-: yes, exactly as gpg --list-keys shows the uid
[20:01] <oly-> yay, i got past the gpg bit now thxs :)
[20:04] <alex-weej> can a MOTU add this patch to music-applet please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/music-applet/+bug/93284
[20:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 93284 in music-applet "music-applet fails on second login session" [Undecided,New]
[20:04] <alex-weej> thanks
[20:06] <geser> alex-weej: can you prepare a debdiff?
[20:24]  * somerville32 is home again.
[20:24] <effie_jayx> I am at the last bit of the manpage... what do I do here... This manual page was written by #USERNAME# <#EMAIL#>,
[20:24] <effie_jayx> for the Debian project (but may be used by others).
[20:24] <effie_jayx> ???
[20:24] <effie_jayx> somerville32,  pink floyd?
[20:24] <effie_jayx> :D
[20:25] <somerville32> No, I'm... just home again :P
[20:25] <RainCT> effie_jayx: repalce it with your name and email :)
[20:25] <RainCT> *replace
[20:26] <effie_jayx> somerville32,  just made reference to pink floyd song...
[20:27]  * effie_jayx sings ... ♫ home... home again
[20:27] <somerville32> :)
[20:32] <norsetto> is there anybody out there?
[20:32] <geser> norsetto: no :)
[20:32] <nxvl_work> o/
[20:32] <norsetto> no ... no ... no ....
[20:32] <nxvl_work> fighting with amarok2
[20:32] <norsetto> (damn cheap echo effect ....)
[20:34] <nxvl_work> norsetto: i made the changes to bootcd
[20:35] <norsetto> nxvl_work: right, lets see what the DD will say, I'm not sure either that changing all the shebang to bash its a good solution either
[20:35] <norsetto> either either ... oh my ....
[20:39] <somerville32> :/
[20:40] <nxvl_work> norsetto: he said he will release it on the next version
[20:40] <norsetto> nxvl_work: yes, but what?
[20:41] <norsetto> nxvl_work: and when? If its after DIF we might have a problem, so lets see
[20:43] <nxvl_work> btw
[20:43] <nxvl_work> on cereal, they have included my patch on debian
[20:43] <nxvl_work> but i don't find the merge on MoM or DaD
[20:43] <nxvl_work> we should sync it
[20:43] <norsetto> nxvl_work: ok, whats the bug number again?
[20:44] <nxvl_work> norsetto: 165030
[20:44] <norsetto> bug 165030
[20:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165030 in bootcd "bootcd FTBFS on hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165030
[20:45] <norsetto> nxvl_work:  well, cereal....
[20:45] <nxvl_work> oh
[20:45] <nxvl_work> the cereal is bug 165269
[20:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 165269 in cereal "FTBFS" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165269
[20:47] <norsetto> nxvl_work: ok, and where do you see that that is fixed in debian?
[20:47] <geser> DktrKranz: I remember too, but I don't know how it was done and who done it
[20:47] <nxvl_work> norsetto: on BTS (on also on my mail) the link is on LP
[20:48] <nxvl_work> norsetto: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=453040
[20:48] <ubotu> Debian bug 453040 in cereal "bashism makes cereal FTBFS" [Normal,Fixed]
[20:48] <norsetto> nxvl_work: yes, but its not yet in the archive
[20:48] <DktrKranz> geser, what about writing a mail to ubuntu-devel to ask?
[20:48] <nxvl_work> norsetto: BTS says it's on ftp
[20:48] <nxvl_work> s/ftp/ftp archive/g
[20:48] <geser> DktrKranz: please do if you have time
[20:49] <DktrKranz> geser, sure.
[20:50] <norsetto> nxvl_work: well, not yet: http://ftp.debian.org/pool/main/c/cereal/
[20:50]  * jdong cringes and checks if his mpeg4ip PPA upload killed any buildd's today :D
[20:51] <nxvl_work> norsetto: does this happen often? that a DD upload a package and it doesn't apear to be?
[20:52] <norsetto> nxvl_work: I guess its in NEW, just give it time for the archive admins to process it
[20:52] <nxvl_work> ah ok
[20:52] <norsetto> geser: do you remember by chance the url for debian new?
[20:52] <nxvl_work> norsetto: when it happens, it will ask for a merge on MoM/DaD and i need to sync it, doesn't i?
[20:52] <geser> norsetto: http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html
[20:53] <alex-weej> geser: debdiff?
[20:53] <norsetto> geser: danke (nxvl_work: you can always count on geser, he is an url machine :-))
[20:53] <alex-weej> what's wrong with a patch that you can just drop in debian/patches? :(
[20:54] <geser> alex-weej: a debdiff is a patch which does all the necessary changes to the packaging, like updating the changelog, dropping the patch to debian/patches, etc.
[20:54] <alex-weej> tool to do that?
[20:55] <norsetto> alex-weej: geser: I asked upstream to pop by and check it out
[20:55] <alex-weej> norsetto: upstream is like one guy on sourceforge, no?
[20:55] <geser> alex-weej: creating an updated source package (with your patch added) and then run debdiff on the old.dsc and new.dsc
[20:55] <norsetto> alex-weej: if you want to fix this for gutsy its not a simple procedure anyhow
[20:56] <norsetto> alex-weej: he is one guy somewhere, don't remember him being on sourceforge
[20:57] <norsetto> alex-weej: point being, if he is happy about it, we can immediately correct it for hardy and pass it on to debian, for gutsy its gonna take longer though (or it may not happen at all)
[20:58] <alex-weej> norsetto: i'm just frustrated that i did the work already and it's taken like half a year for it to get anywhere
[20:59] <norsetto> alex-weej: here you will find all the mumble-jumble: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Universe
[20:59] <norsetto> alex-weej: yes, thats the problem when the level to noise ratio is one to a hundred (or worse)
[21:02] <alex-weej> i see someone tagged it "patch"
[21:02] <alex-weej> maybe that helps for getting stuff fixed?
[21:02] <Fujitsu> norsetto: Signal to noise, you mean?
[21:03] <Fujitsu> Or noise to signal, in this case.
[21:03] <norsetto> caesar docet
[21:03] <alex-weej> 1:100 signal:noise
[21:03] <norsetto> SNR: -10 db
[21:04] <norsetto> alex-weej: yes, it helps, I tagged it
[21:04] <norsetto> alex-weej: it helps also to submit the ubuntu-universe-sponsors queue
[21:05] <norsetto> alex-weej: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue for the gory details
[21:05] <alex-weej> 1/100 = -40dB :)
[21:06] <norsetto> alex-weej: -20 db for power signals ;-)
[21:06] <alex-weej> all i know is 20 × log_10(R) :P
[21:06] <norsetto> alex-weej: yeah, thats for linear signals ...
[21:14] <DktrKranz> jdong, mind looking at bug 164749 ?
[21:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164749 in pingus "Pingus package broken on Gutsy" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/164749
[21:15] <Kmos> i've requested pingus 0.7.2 to be backported to gutsy
[21:17] <DktrKranz> Kmos, ah. nice :)
[21:17]  * jdong looks
[21:17] <Kmos> that error is strange, because boost-signals-dev doesn't have a version check
[21:18] <Kmos> i've added that depends at debian since 0.7.1
[21:19] <jdong> Kmos / DktrKranz: Ok yeah it looks like a stupid oversight on my part, is there a backport bug open for pingus/gutsy already?
[21:19] <Kmos> jdong: yes, i open it today.. needs you to approve it
[21:19] <jdong> got a number?
[21:19] <Kmos> 2 secs
[21:20] <Kmos> bug 172605
[21:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172605 in gutsy-backports "Please backport pingus 0.7.2 from Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172605
[21:21] <Ubulette> !info gnome-desktop-2.0 hardy
[21:21] <ubotu> Package gnome-desktop-2.0 does not exist in hardy
[21:21] <Ubulette> hm
[21:21] <jdong> Kmos: done.
[21:21] <Kmos> jdong: thanks
[21:21] <Kmos> jdong: have time for more two? =)
[21:21] <jdong> are they urgent?
[21:22] <Kmos> only one
[21:22] <Kmos> bug 172393
[21:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172393 in gutsy-backports "Please backport disksearch from Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172393
[21:22] <Kmos> it has an old old old version at gutsy
[21:22] <Kmos> =)
[21:22] <Kmos> and it has a lot of bugs
[21:22] <jdong> ok, looks reasonable
[21:22] <Kmos> !info disksearch gutsy
[21:22] <ubotu> disksearch: Removable medias search tool. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.1.3-0ubuntu3 (gutsy), package size 40 kB, installed size 336 kB
[21:23] <effie_jayx> ok
[21:23] <jdong> Kmos: done. Can I go back to reading about eigenvectors yet? :)
[21:23] <Kmos> jdong: sure :) thx
[21:23] <effie_jayx> I got the file done for the manpage
[21:24] <norsetto> oh eigenvectors ...
[21:24] <Kmos> effie_jayx: learned about dh_installman
[21:24] <Kmos> ?
[21:24] <effie_jayx> I got to man about it
[21:24] <jdong> norsetto: believe me I'd take manpages over this anyday ;-)
[21:25] <norsetto> jong: should I take you at face value :-)?
[21:25] <norsetto> oh $deity will I ever spell something correctly ...
[21:25] <Kmos> norsetto: do you want debian ITP bug for gelemental package ?
[21:26] <norsetto> kmos: what ITP number?
[21:26] <Kmos> need to find it
[21:26] <effie_jayx> jdong,  believe me ... that man page is still needs a definition...
[21:26] <effie_jayx> heh
[21:26] <effie_jayx> try googling or RTFM for runghc
[21:26] <Kmos> norsetto: http://bugs.debian.org/444861
[21:27] <Kmos> it would be nice to have gelemental at debian, so gperiodic can be removed
[21:27] <norsetto> kmos: thanks, can you tell them to take the one we have in hardy, or should we do something else?
[21:27] <Kmos> !info gperiodic
[21:27] <ubotu> gperiodic: periodic table application. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.0.9-1 (gutsy), package size 109 kB, installed size 420 kB
[21:28] <jdong> WHOA MPEG4IP BUILT!!!111
[21:28] <jdong> and it didn't DoS the i386 buildd!
[21:28] <Fujitsu> jdong: Impossible.
[21:28] <Kmos> norsetto: you need to upload it to mentors and ask for sponsoring
[21:28] <norsetto> kmos: there are also the python bindings (pyelemental) if they want
[21:29] <Kmos> :))
[21:30] <norsetto> kmos: there are two new versions in the queue btw, with very minor fixes
[21:30] <nxvl_work> norsetto: so be better wait for the DD instead of uploading the bootcd fix?
[21:30] <Kmos> norsetto: in debian new ?
[21:30] <norsetto> kmos: no, in norsetto new
[21:30] <Kmos> :-P
[21:31] <norsetto> nxvl_work: yes, it really depends if wait is a week or 6 months though
[21:31] <nxvl_work> norsetto: isn't better to upload it anyway?
[21:32] <nxvl_work> btw, did DaD send an email to the last person who touch the package?
[21:32] <norsetto> nxvl_work: why? We are talking about hardy here
[21:32] <nxvl_work> yes, you are right
[21:32] <norsetto> nxvl_work: no, you have to check it manually
[21:32] <nxvl_work> norsetto: it should
[21:33] <norsetto> nxvl_work: I'm not so sure people would want it to tell you the truth
[21:33] <effie_jayx> norsetto,  tomorrow I shall nail the bug...
[21:33] <norsetto> effie_jayx: yeah, shred it to bits!
[21:35]  * jdong dputs stage 2 of world domination to motumedia-ppa
[21:47]  * RainCT is trying to remember if there wasn't a 'junk' project in launchpad where anyone could create bzr branches?
[21:47] <lifeless> +junk
[21:47] <imbrandon> RainCT: you can create bzr branches on your own name +junk iirc
[21:48] <RainCT> lifeless, imbrandon: ah, cool. thanks :)
[21:53] <RAOF> Oh, wow.  It looks like DavidR will be hacking xrandr1.2 into Xgl.  Maybe he can make a *release* while he's at it >:(.
[22:02] <RainCT> good night
[22:32] <effie_jayx> !etiquette > effie_jayx
[22:33] <ScottK> RAOF: You like mono, right?
[22:35] <RAOF> ScottK: Yeah?
[22:35] <ScottK> RAOF: keescook was just mentioning wanting some help with debdiffs for mono security fixes.  Maybe you would volunteer
[22:36] <RAOF> In #ubuntu-devel, I presume?
[22:36] <ScottK> No, actually it came up in #debian-devel
[22:36] <ScottK> DSA-1397 is the issue.
[22:36] <somerville32> What do you guys think of Xubuntu being demoted to Universe?
[22:37] <keescook> ScottK: well, help with testing on all releases too.  :)
[22:37] <ScottK> somerville32: I think end users neither know nor care about Main/Universe and cjwatson's point about it's easier to work on if it's in Universe is valid.
[22:37] <somerville32> But why not demote Kubuntu then?
[22:38] <ScottK> keescook: I think my hard drives would melt if I mixed KDE and Mono.  I was just doing a little recruiting for you.
[22:38] <RAOF> Because there are enough core-devs that care about it?
[22:38] <somerville32> There are enough core-devs for Xubuntu
[22:38] <keescook> ScottK: thanks.  :)
[22:39] <somerville32> I doubt more MOTUs would upload Xubuntu packages if it was in Universe anyhow
[22:40] <ScottK> somerville32: Get your act together and soonish you could be one of them.
[22:40] <ScottK> Core-dev would take a bit longer.
[22:40] <somerville32> Whats wrong with my act? : (
[22:40] <somerville32> Am I doing something wrong? :(
[22:40] <ajmitch> keescook: talked to slomo about it?
[22:41] <ScottK> somerville32: No.  Just hadn't seen you around for a while and then there's been no application.
[22:41] <keescook> ajmitch: nope, it just hasn't really gotten up on the todo list yet
[22:41] <ajmitch> ah, meebey is complaining, surprise
[22:41] <somerville32> ScottK, Well, I was admitted to the hospital
[22:41] <keescook> :)
[22:41] <norsetto> scottk: whats the contact for the debian python gang?
[22:41] <somerville32> ScottK, But do you think I'm ready to apply?
[22:41] <imbrandon> ScottK: qyoto c# qt bindings :)
[22:42] <ScottK> somerville32: I haven't looked at your stuff, so I don't have a strong opinion.  Your general knowledge is certainly good (I recall you giving me revu drubbings when I first showed up)
[22:42] <ScottK> norsetto: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam
[22:42] <somerville32> :] Thanks.
[22:42]  * somerville32 has to run. ttyl
[22:43] <ScottK> norsetto: That or ping POX_.
[22:43] <norsetto> scottk: ok, thanks, think they could be interested about python bindings or its not their kind of stuff?
[22:44] <ScottK> Yes.  Likely interested.
[22:59] <hendrixski> hey, quick question...  I want to package up a cool prototype that I saw on a mailing list, but it's built with cmake.... could anybody recommend a package I could look at that uses cmake (just so that I don't come across any nasty surprises)
[23:01] <geser> hendrixski: check the packages build-depending on cmake
[23:01] <hendrixski> geser, there's a way to do that?
[23:01]  * hendrixski checks the apt-cache man pages
[23:03] <geser> hendrixski: use that script http://damianv.com.ar/downloads/rbuildepend
[23:06] <jdong> argh, libmp4v2 from mpeg4ip definitely is not API & ABI compatible with our libfaad2 based ancient version
[23:06] <jdong> yay, I have my post-exam work cut out for me already :)
[23:06] <hendrixski> hhmm, script didn't seem to do much
[23:07] <geser> hendrixski: do you have a deb-src line in /etc/apt/sources.list?
[23:08] <hendrixski> yup, for feisty main restricted universe multiverse
[23:08] <geser> hendrixski: rbuildepend cmake lists here a lot of packages (with hardy deb-src)
[23:09] <hendrixski> oh... heh, missing grep-dctrl
[23:09] <geser> hendrixski: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/46170/
[23:10] <hendrixski> got it
[23:10] <hendrixski> yeah, there are a few packages, sweet
[23:11] <hendrixski> that's a handy little script.
[23:11] <hendrixski> I'll have to back that one up in case I need it again
[23:12] <hendrixski> thanks geser I would have wasted another couple of hours looking for this without you :-)
[23:40] <s1024kb> norsetto: good morning my teacher, i can still access to the internet this morning. a few days later i can not. so i come to say hello to you, and to all my friends here.
[23:40] <norsetto> s1024kb: hello!
[23:41] <jdong> superm1: oh cool mplayer doesn't use system libmp4v2 anymore?
[23:41] <norsetto> s1024kb: so, you are really leaving?
[23:41] <txwikinger> hello.. is there anywhere a document/webpage that exactly explains the issue with copyright file in the original package?
[23:42] <RAOF> txwikinger: What issue is it that you want to fix?
[23:43] <s1024kb> norsetto: there are a lot of meaning of "leaving", to my company, yes, but not now, my plan is at the begining of next year, to Ubuntu, no, i believe that i will be absence for a short period of time, but will come back soon.
[23:43] <txwikinger> well, I have two package which the authors put the copyright information into the readme file
[23:43] <norsetto> s1024kb: very good!
[23:43] <txwikinger> and I would like to know about this in general
[23:43] <norsetto> s1024kb: I hope this is a good change for you
[23:44] <RAOF> Ah, rather than in a LICENCE or COPYING file as is more traditional.
[23:44] <txwikinger> what happens if the original author can't be found anymore, but it is clearly licenced gpl or so in another way
[23:44] <s1024kb> norsetto: actually i keep studying Linux development these days even without a computer or ADSL at home. I want to take part in the development of the next release of Ubuntu.
[23:45] <RAOF> txwikinger: So, I'm not sure that there *is* a general answer to the question "copyright?".
[23:45] <norsetto> s1024kb: you did already, yappy is your package now :-)
[23:45] <RAOF> txwikinger: On the other hand, if it's clearly GPLd, then that's ok.
[23:46] <s1024kb> norsetto: my friend Maia (maiatoday) will continue her work in Ubuntu as she had promised me, i can share her experience. I will come back to my school in the evening to receive her e-mail about telling me her work.
[23:46] <txwikinger> well it is a perl module and it is stated in readme file that it is published under the same terms as perl
[23:46] <RAOF> txwikinger: The trick is in the "clearly" of course :)
[23:47] <txwikinger> I consider that as "clearly" (and I have a law degree in another 4 weeks :))
[23:48] <RAOF> I think that generally we like to have license headers in each copyrightable file, but I'm in no way an expert on licensing issues.
[23:48] <s1024kb> norsetto: you are always my teacher, i will meet you soon in the future. Please continue to be my Mentor! :) for this reason, and for my future work in Ubuntu, i will keep my spirit high and fight for my future.
[23:48] <txwikinger> well thanks, RAOF I will ask someone tomorrow if I get to it
[23:49] <norsetto> s1024kb: sure, you are still on my list don worry, as soon as things are clear and you have again time, come back
[23:52] <s1024kb> norsetto: thank you my teacher. or i should say "have chance again"? i will buy my own computer soon, take my exams, continue my study... we will meet again soon. :)
[23:53] <s1024kb> norsetto: it's a long way to go but i will be brave. :)
[23:56] <s1024kb> norsetto: bye my teacher, take care.
[23:56] <norsetto> s1024kb: bye! take care of yourself and your family. Will see you soon I hope
[23:57] <s1024kb> norsetto: thank you, i will. will e-mail you when i have chance.
[23:57] <norsetto> s1024kb: yes, let me know
[23:57] <s1024kb> norsetto: :) thanks.
[23:58] <Fujitsu> siretart: Why should u-u-s not be subscribed to bugs?