[01:11] <oobe> !help
[01:11] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[01:13] <oobe> !foo
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[01:13] <oobe> !xvmc
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[01:14] <oobe> !mythtv
[01:14] <ubotu> MythTV is a TV framework for Linux - Instructions for using with Ubuntu at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV
[01:14] <oobe> !compiz
[01:14] <ubotu> Compiz (compositing window manager) and XGL (X server architecture layered on top of OpenGL) - Howto at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager - help in #compiz-fusion
[02:40] <tgm4883_laptop> oobe, was there something specific you were looking for?
[02:48] <oobe> i have multiple tuners and i scheduled a recording using mythweb and it now appears twice in my recording schedule as if i am recording it on 2 tuners this has never happened before i tryed removing it and re adding it in mythfrontend but this did not help was wondering if anyone has ever encountered this before
[05:01] <levander> Anybody got any idea why HOME and END are skipping commercials for me from recordings, but not from live TV?
[05:03] <Dr_willis> Hmm.. you expect it to skip comercials in Live tv?
[05:03] <Dr_willis> it only records like 30 sec ahead in live tv i thought.. of coruse it dosent flag vomercials i thought untill the show was done.
[05:04] <Dr_willis> Unless thers some reallyt really neat feature that ive never noticed. :P
[05:04] <levander> Dr_willis: Oh, I had no idea.  I thought it was supposed to work...
[05:05] <levander> Dr_willis: Oh, but you know you can be behind for like 1/2 an hour.
[05:05] <levander> Dr_willis: Beind Live TV.
[05:05] <Dr_willis> Right. but i thin the flag comercials setting has to be enabled to  flag them on the fly like that.
[05:06] <levander> Dr_willis: I think I saw that setting.  It's just in the setup you get from mythtvfrontend, right?
[05:09] <levander> In TV Settings -> General, there's a "Commercial Flag New Recordings" button. Is that the button you're talking about?
[05:11] <Dr_willis> but i think it does that after they are done recording. not the 'delayed' tv/pause thing
[05:11] <levander> Well, that's definitely how my Myth box is working now...
[05:12] <levander> It probably is.
[05:12] <levander> You think there's another setting?
[05:14] <levander> What you're saying is definitely how it used to work in 2004: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/98984?search_string=commercials;#98984
[05:15] <levander> Dunno if they've changed it.
[05:18] <Dr_willis> No idea. I rarely watch live tv :)
[05:23] <levander> This is an interesting conecpt.  They're talking about "normalizing" audio.  So that there's no, this is really loud, that's too quiet.  So you keep having to turn things up and down.  Wish my Windows box had that.
[05:25] <foxbuntu> levander, sorry...just popped in, what are you trying to do?
[05:25] <levander> Can you skip commercials while watching Live TV?
[05:26] <foxbuntu> levander, only with the smart skip or fast forward, obviously only if you have recorded that far ahead...ie it wa paused for some amount of time
[05:26] <foxbuntu> but not commerical break skipping like in playback of recordings
[05:27] <levander> foxbuntu: Cool, that's what Dr_willis was saying.  With two opinions, I can definitely lay it to rest now.
[05:27] <levander> I think I saw that smart skip thing in Setup.  I'm gonna go look into that.
[05:27] <foxbuntu> smart skip defaults to 30 secs forward and 10 back
[05:29] <levander> The key to use smart skip isn't in the "Installing and Using" guide on mythtv.org.  At least it doesn't show up when I search for "smart" or "skip".
[05:29] <levander> In Chptr. 11, where they talk about what keys to use for everything: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-11.html#ss11.1
[05:30] <foxbuntu> levander, usually defaults to Left and right (left forward, right back)
[05:30] <foxbuntu> oops
[05:30] <foxbuntu> other way around
[05:30] <levander> foxbuntu: I thought that was just regular fast forward and rewind, those two buttons.
[05:30] <foxbuntu> levander, no, those are just ff and rewind
[05:31] <foxbuntu> smart skip is the left and right arrow keys
[05:31] <foxbuntu> on the remote and keyboard
[05:31] <levander> What is "just ff and rewind"?  Don't understand that sentence.
[05:31] <levander> I don't have a remote setup yet.  So, don't know anything about remotes.
[05:32] <foxbuntu> levander, ok...well I thought you meant a remote
[05:32] <levander> So, left and right is "smart skip" on the keyboard?
[05:33] <foxbuntu> > is fastforward, and < rewind (the actualy keys not the arrows)
[05:33] <foxbuntu> levander, yes
[05:33] <levander> foxbuntu: Great, lemme try these.
[05:33] <levander> brb
[05:35] <levander> You know, I was wondering why FF and REW was so unsmooth and choppy.  It's because the keys weren't doing what I thought they were.
[05:35] <levander> Almost done figuring out enough basics of Myth.
[05:36] <levander> Just go to figure out how to install a wireless card and a remote, then I come move the box upstairs and watch regular TV on it.  From my couch, like watching television is meant to be.
[05:38] <foxbuntu> levander, you will like remote config...just open mythbuntu-control-centre up and find a remote that is supported in there prior to buying one and you willhave no trouble at all
[05:38] <foxbuntu> (I wrote that support :) )
[05:39] <levander> Problem is, I really, really wanna Logitech Harmony 550.  I didn't see that remote in there.
[05:39] <foxbuntu> levander, yeah everyone wants that remote...lol
[05:39] <levander> Myabe if I get motivated, I can figure out what I need to send in to get it supported...
[05:40] <levander> foxbuntu: Well, I'm spending the $80 to get it.  I've done too much work not to be happy with the remote.
[05:40] <foxbuntu> levander, tell you what...if you find the documentation or the lircd.conf for that remote I will at it to the new version of the remote support I am building
[05:41] <levander> foxbuntu: Yeah, definitely.  I used to send in little bug fixes and stuff for free software.  But, haven't done anything for awhile.  I need to start contributing again, at least in small ways.
[05:41] <levander> And no, I don't have time to work on Myth basically full time like a lotta you guys manage somehow.
[05:41] <foxbuntu> levander, it always starts small...I couldn't even code much more than a basic script before I started working with this team
[05:42] <levander> You're kidding me, you're not a programmer?
[05:42] <foxbuntu> nope
[05:42] <levander> Or, at least, not a programmer outside of Myth?
[05:42] <levander> foxbuntu: That's something.  I went to school to learn this stuff.
[05:42] <foxbuntu> I am a network engineer (hardware guy)
[05:43] <levander> foxbuntu: But you know, I've only worked professionally with a few guys cutting code that didn't finish school.  All of them were some of the best I've worked with.
[05:43] <levander> I think college just acts like a filter.
[05:43] <levander> If you can get through the filter without going to school, it means you're pretty good.
[05:44] <levander> If I see a resume with five graduate degrees on it, I throw it away right off.
[05:44] <levander> If I see a resume with no college on it, I put it on top.
[05:44] <foxbuntu> I sure hope I am for what client pay to have me around (I am a Consultant for Enterprise Businesses)
[05:44] <foxbuntu> ..as a Network Engineer
[05:44] <levander> Consultant, like you tell them what Network Infrastructure they need?
[05:44] <levander> yeah, that was my guess, network engineer.
[05:44] <foxbuntu> sometimes
[05:45] <levander> What else are they willing to pay consultants for?
[05:45] <foxbuntu> Im kinda of a jack of all trades
[05:45] <levander> Is some of the work basically just regular contract work?
[05:45] <foxbuntu> sometimes
[05:46] <foxbuntu> most of the time big projects
[05:46] <levander> Like configuring all the network, getting it up and going?  That would be a big project?
[05:46] <foxbuntu> thats an easy one...I like those
[05:47] <levander> Actually, I see it now.  Lots of companies probably just have network engineering work at irregular times.  They don't need someone at all times, but they have to have someone they can call.
[05:47] <levander> That's basically what you do?
[05:47] <foxbuntu> normally its, ...here is the goal...figure out 3 options with what we have, what we will need to get and how much all the options cost, then make it work seemless
[05:48] <levander> Okay, so they typically already have some, then need to extend it, but don't know how.
[05:48] <foxbuntu> exactly...
[05:48] <foxbuntu> they are paying for my expertise
[05:48] <levander> I'm thinking about going out on my own doing some web development.
[05:48] <levander> I need to do more research about the kinds of projects people are willing to pay for.
[05:49] <levander> I could just go straight graphics design, I'm okay with that.
[05:49] <levander> But, I really like writing software.
[05:49] <levander> Hope to find a niche where I can get projects writing web software for people.
[05:49] <levander> I guess I'll see..
[05:50] <foxbuntu> levander, in my experience most medium to large businesses have internal staff that write their custom apps
[05:50] <levander> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
[05:50] <levander> I know there are a lot of freelance web developers, but I think it's like 80% graphic design they do.
[05:51] <foxbuntu> Yeah, I have seen that allot too
[05:51] <levander> Then maybe configuring some stuff, or finding a little bit of custom software they need online somewhere.
[05:52] <foxbuntu> levander, so are you a software engineer then?
[05:52] <levander> Yeah, I'm writing Java apps for the web.
[05:52]  * foxbuntu shivers from the cold breeze at the mention of Java
[05:53] <foxbuntu> lol
[05:53] <levander> I like Java.
[05:53] <levander> I been looking into Rails, and I've learn it.
[05:53] <levander> But, fom reading around, Rails is too slow.
[05:53] <levander> YOu couldn't really do a big corporate site on it.
[05:53] <levander> Python's environment is too piece meal.
[05:53] <levander> PHP is for people who don't know how to program.
[05:53] <foxbuntu> its great for oo web apps
[05:54] <foxbuntu> I am a big Ajax fan...but dont know mcuh yet
[05:54] <levander> foxbuntu: Yeah, and in a corporate environment, because there's so little to the Java language, it kind of protects you from the lesser engineers you are inevitably gonna work with.
[05:54] <levander> There's so much less harm you can do in Java than in Ruby.  There's just not as much power in Java.
[05:55] <levander> The creativity in Java comes in laying out the OO framework.  Making stuff work together in ways that make sense.
[05:55] <levander> You don't put much thought into the individual lines of code.
[05:55] <levander> But, then there end up being a *lot* more lines of code.
[05:56] <foxbuntu> I guess the little schooling I did in code made me a C/C++ guy and Java seems a little fat...kinda like C# to me
[05:57] <foxbuntu> which is prob why I like Python and Perl
[05:57] <levander> I started in C++ too.  Java is kind of similar to C++.  Just no low level stuff in Java.  Which you don't need in enterprise development.
[05:57] <foxbuntu> levander, agreed
[05:57] <levander> Python and Perl are lots better for small groups of talented developers.
[05:57] <levander> You just don't get that in corporate America.
[05:57] <foxbuntu> nope
[05:57] <foxbuntu> I know that much all the places I have worked in
[05:58] <levander> I'd give Rails a try, if it weren't slow.
[05:58] <levander> Well, slow for large capacities.
[05:58] <levander> It's fine if just like 20 guys are hitting a web site.
[05:59] <levander> You want 20 queries all at the same time, the problem is a lot easier to solve in Java.
[05:59] <levander> You just don't have to worry about stuff like caching.
[05:59] <levander> Which affects performance in its own way.
[05:59] <foxbuntu> right...I am a big fan of PHP frontends and SQL Backends for Websites
[06:00] <foxbuntu> and running a webserver like lighttpd with fastcgi and php cache
[06:00] <levander> Really though, it's only a few nooks and crannies I've seen people complain about high capacity sites in Rails.  But, there's not a lot of them, and I haven't seen anyone brag about performance of high capacity Rails.
[06:00] <levander> I've just seen it mentioned on blogs and the such.
[06:01] <levander> Wikipedia is done in PHP. I believe like 90% of it is PHP.
[06:01] <levander> PHP for whatever reason is handling high capacity sites.
[06:01] <foxbuntu> I think becuase it handles SQL so well
[06:02] <levander> Don't most people just hard code SQL queries as strings in their PHP code?
[06:02] <foxbuntu> depends...some stuff is dynamic...depends on the purpose
[06:03] <levander> Yeah, I shouldn't have said hard code.  I just mean don't they just construct strings and use those as SQL Queries?
[06:03] <foxbuntu> yes
[06:04] <foxbuntu> Im not sure how it would be done elsewise
[06:04] <levander> All languages can do that.  The trick is when you start automatically translating objects into queries.  That's always slow.
[06:04] <levander> Well, the OORMS trick (just above) and caching.
[06:04] <levander> Like that PHP cache thing you mentioned above.
[06:05] <foxbuntu> (just my inexperience with coding I guess)
[09:54] <michaellamothe> Hi there.
[09:56] <michaellamothe> Are there any MOTUs who are interested in road-testing my GNOME based DVB application?  It's all packaged and ready to go.  I just need advocates.
[09:57] <michaellamothe> I have a few people that have said they'll second it but they don't have DVB cards so they want someone with a DVB card to ack it first.
[14:32] <frink_> hello?
[14:36] <rhpot1991> hello
[14:52] <frink_> hello rhpot1991
[14:52] <rhpot1991> hows it going?
[15:24] <frink_> oright
[15:24] <frink_> I am knackered
[15:24] <frink_> have too much work to do
[15:24] <frink_> too many kids who make too much noise
[16:05] <rhpot1991> http://www.woot.com/
[16:05] <rhpot1991> I wonder if anyone has any luck with that tuner
[16:06] <rhpot1991> http://www.linuxtv.org/v4lwiki/index.php/Pinnacle/800e
[16:06] <rhpot1991> that seems to indicate yes
[16:08] <bendailey> rhpot1991: I just was looking at that myself
[16:09] <bendailey> It looks very promising
[16:10] <tgm4883> i've been looking for a usb one for my laptop.  I wonder how well that would work in the car?
[16:10] <bendailey> what kind of antenna are you planning on using in your car? are you in the same city as the towers you want to recieve?
[16:11] <rhpot1991> I have no idea what kind of return policy woot has though
[16:11] <rhpot1991> only ever got roombas from them
[16:11] <tgm4883> well, i was planning on using it as a extra HD tuner, then when I go on vacation take it with me for the freeway
[16:12] <tgm4883> more of a i think i'll try it, and if it works then cool
[16:12] <tgm4883> if not, no biggie
[16:12] <tgm4883> although i'd rather grab a hdhomerun
[16:12] <bendailey> yeah it would be interesting to try it in a mobile setting
[16:13] <rhpot1991> I'm just looking at it as an extra tuner for $60
[16:13] <tgm4883> youmean 75
[16:13] <rhpot1991> hmmm apparently I can't read
[16:13] <rhpot1991> thats a little less tempting
[16:13] <tgm4883> it's regular 109
[16:14] <bendailey> I would rather have an hdhomerun also but for 100 difference plus ntsc it is tempting
[16:14] <superm1> the me-tv author just added atsc too.
[16:14] <rhpot1991> I can get another pvr150 for less than that
[16:14] <superm1> so that would mean mobility wise that could be used
[16:14] <tgm4883> superm1, for the software?
[16:14] <superm1> perhaps we can have a suite of apps on disk for TV usage with some sort of custom frontend for launching them
[16:14] <superm1> tgm4883, well if you have a laptop and no myth with you
[16:15] <superm1> but you wanted to watch some atsc stuff
[16:15] <tgm4883> eh, i'll just write up a spec for foxbuntu :)
[16:16] <superm1> hm where on there does it mention that it is the 800e?
[16:16] <superm1> pinnacle has a ton of sticks like that i thought
[16:16] <rhpot1991> it doesn't
[16:17] <superm1> well i wouldn't jump to the conclusion that its the 800e then...
[16:17] <rhpot1991> unfortunately woot doesn't normally spell out a model number
[16:18] <bendailey> superm1: it has the same model name minus the woot part as the 800e
[16:18] <superm1> well i don't need one, so someone snap up and grab one and we'll find out :)
[16:19] <rhpot1991> ya I just matched up PCTV HD PRO STICK
[16:19] <tgm4883> http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/PCTV/PCTV/
[16:19] <tgm4883> i don't even see an 800e
[16:19] <tgm4883> just one that says pro
[16:22] <bendailey> anyone know rf or ir remote?
[16:27] <bendailey> shoot appears to be an ir remote my mythbox is behind my tv :(
[16:27] <rhpot1991> just buy a mce remote or something
[16:28] <superm1> or a usb extension cable
[16:29] <tgm4883> or a serial ir receiver
[16:30] <tgm4883> or a second mythbox that will go in front of your tv that will grab the ir command and transfer it over rs232 to the other mythbox
[16:30] <tgm4883> or a child from a third world country that will change the channel for you in exchange for food
[16:31] <rhpot1991> heh
[16:31]  * tgm4883 does the third option
[16:32]  * rhpot1991 searches amazon for "human remote control"
[16:32]  * tgm4883 had "tgm4883 MCE" tattood on their forehead
[16:32] <tgm4883> it's kinda sad though when they crash and I have to run the kill command
[16:34] <bendailey> I will just continue to use my rf keyboard
[16:41] <ndz> hey rhpot1991!  What about PCTV HD PRO STICK???   I own one of em
[16:42] <rhpot1991> does it work with mythtv?
[16:42] <ndz> haven't tried.  I use it on a win box
[16:42] <rhpot1991> http://www.woot.com/
[16:42] <rhpot1991> is what we are all looking at
[16:43] <ndz> yep.  I paid 100 I think
[16:43] <rhpot1991> its useless to me if it doesn't work in linux though
[16:43] <ndz> there's supposed to be a newer one coming out (if not out already) where you can get input w/o the Pinnacle software
[16:44] <ndz> I would guess the newer one would have a better chance of working with myth/linux
[16:46] <ndz> thats a good deal if you want to watch some HD on your Win box.  I never saw a linux driver for it though
[16:52] <rhpot1991> I saw words about pctv hd pro stick working, but who knows if this is the exact same thing, as it is a woot branded version
[16:52] <rhpot1991> I'd hate to order it and have it have some different chipset inside
[16:53] <ndz> does woot do that often?  I have never bought from them
[16:55] <rhpot1991> well they don't normally tell you model numbers on a lot of things, so its hard to tell as far as linux support
[21:14] <michaellamothe> Hi All
[21:14] <michaellamothe> superm1: Are you there?
[21:15] <tgm4883_laptop> michaellamothe, whats up
[21:15] <tgm4883_laptop> i saw you had a gnome DVB app for testing?
[21:16] <michaellamothe> tgm4883_laptop: Yes, are you interested?
[21:16] <tgm4883_laptop> I am, although im not motu
[21:16] <michaellamothe> tgm4883_laptop: That's ok.  Hope you like it.
[21:17] <michaellamothe> tgm4883_laptop: Where are you from?
[21:17] <tgm4883_laptop> West coast USA
[21:17] <tgm4883_laptop> Oregon
[21:18] <michaellamothe> tgm4883_laptop: You'll be happy to know that last night I added ATSC support to my development/unstable branch.
[21:18] <tgm4883_laptop> sweet
[21:18] <tgm4883_laptop> where can i get this to test
[21:19] <michaellamothe> tgm4883_laptop:  Download from https://launchpad.net/me-tv/+download
[21:19] <michaellamothe> It's not the debs though.  Just the source ... but you can dpkg-buildpackage from that source.
[21:20] <tgm4883_laptop> k
[21:20] <tgm4883_laptop> 4.6?
[21:20] <tgm4883_laptop> or are you needing testing for 4.5?
[21:20] <michaellamothe> tgm4883_laptop: Yep 4.6.  You'll need to supply a channels.conf.
[21:20] <tgm4883_laptop> OK
[21:20] <tgm4883_laptop> oh, quiz time, gotta go.  I'll grab it later, thanks
[21:21] <michaellamothe> tgm4883_laptop: 4.5 is the one I'm promoting for Hardy.  It's tested by people all over the work ... just not Hardy.
[21:22] <michaellamothe> tgm4883:  I'll put the ATSC code into stable right after someone tells me that it works because there's nothing to it.
[21:22] <michaellamothe> tgm4883: cya ... gotta go to work soon.
[21:25] <rhpot1991> so did anyone order the card from woot?
[21:25] <rhpot1991> I swung by best buy on lunch, and it looks the same as the retail hd pro stick
[21:33] <rhpot1991> new futurama movie seemed like a safer/better investment though
[21:34] <directhex> i want that in HD
[21:35] <rhpot1991> what, futurama?
[21:35] <directhex> yeah
[21:35] <directhex> it seems to me "classic" cell-shaded animation is something that really shows up the difference between hd & sd
[21:36] <rhpot1991> I doubt you will see it any time soon
[21:36] <rhpot1991> took them long enough to get new content
[21:36] <rhpot1991> let alone recycle old
[21:38] <rhpot1991> I hear the new movie is good though
[21:38] <rhpot1991> did you get it yet?
[21:41] <directhex> not yet. i may wait for it on something hd. i've waited this long since season 4 ended...
[21:41] <rhpot1991> eh
[21:41] <rhpot1991> pick it up, will only help your odds of getting it in HD
[22:50] <hendrixski> hey,  has anybody packaged up that new mythpython thing yet?
[22:50] <hendrixski> I see potential in it, so it probably wouldn't hurt to have a few debs floating around.  I'm thinking of making one if nobody hasn't already.
[22:51] <directhex> ick, python
[22:51] <directhex> wake me when there's libmythtv-cil
[22:51] <hendrixski> directhex, cil???
[22:52] <directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Intermediate_Language
[22:53] <hendrixski> oh.. ha ha
[22:53] <hendrixski> nah, it's not bindings... it's this guy who wants to make it easily mod-able like the xbox MC
[22:54] <directhex> as long as it doesn't lead to a flood of low-quality code
[22:54] <hendrixski> how would it do that?
[22:54] <hendrixski> modders != developers
[22:55] <hendrixski> they just make scripts that do cool things, like download trailers off the apple website for examplle... if it's a good idea, then a coder will pick it up and write good code to include it into mythtv
[22:56] <hendrixski> directhex, so I'm going to assume you haven't heard of anybody else who's picked this up yet?
[22:57] <directhex> hendrixski, nope
[22:57] <hendrixski> k
[22:57] <hendrixski> and, you know anything about packaging?
[22:57] <hendrixski> this thing is compiled using cmake, and I wonder if there aren't any surprises with packaging cmake-based programs
[22:58] <directhex> i'd just try feeding it through dh_make first. it might JustWork(tm). maybe
[23:00] <hendrixski> right
[23:00] <hendrixski> well, I'll give it a go
[23:01]  * hendrixski doesn't think mythtv is exactly what one would call "high quality" code to begin with... anyways... off to packaging mythpython :-)
[23:01] <directhex> myth's code is frightening in places, yes. perhaps that's why i'd rather see effort on doing things like making libmythui not suck, than on bringing a torrent of random scripts to it
[23:02] <directhex> myth looks old and tired compared to proprietary alternatives. featurewise it's good, but presentation is poor
[23:03] <hendrixski> yeah
[23:03] <hendrixski> well, hopefully some companies might pick it up and start working with it
[23:03] <hendrixski> kind of like Apache, or the kernel itself
[23:06] <directhex> only one company's done anything - and their product only uses myth on the backend
[23:12] <hendrixski> directhex, which company is that?
[23:13] <directhex> pluto
[23:13] <hendrixski> ah, right right
[23:13] <hendrixski> well, some guys posted to the list a few weeks ago that they had done a project for a client that was mythtv based
[23:13] <hendrixski> but their code kinda sucks
[23:14] <hendrixski> I couldn't get it to compile, and their build-script was actually a debian-packaging script... which sucked a huge one
[23:14] <hendrixski> I guess it was a prototype.  but there may be another company in the middle-east coming out with another such project :-p
[23:15] <hendrixski> anyways... gotta go for a dinner appointment.   I found another package using cmake, so I'll use their debian/rules as a guide for mythpython
[23:15] <hendrixski> later