[01:06] Anybody in here? [01:21] wolfger: I see 99 of us [01:21] of course, I think we're all just lurking [01:22] I was looking for a meeting, but was notified it's being held in ubuntu-us. Sorry to have bothered the peace :-) [02:30] @schedule atlantic [02:30] Schedule for Canada/Atlantic: 29 Nov 10:00: Desktop Team Development | 29 Nov 12:00: Community Council | 01 Dec 07:00: Kubuntu Developers | 01 Dec 15:00: Art Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Server Team meeting [02:30] * somerville32 wonders if he can swing the CC [02:32] @schedule europe [02:33] @schedule europe/rome [02:33] Schedule for Europe/Rome: 29 Nov 15:00: Desktop Team Development | 29 Nov 17:00: Community Council | 01 Dec 12:00: Kubuntu Developers | 01 Dec 20:00: Art Team | 04 Dec 17:00: Server Team meeting === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Nov 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 29 Nov 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 01 Dec 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 01 Dec 19:00 UTC: Art Team | 04 Dec 16:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 05 Dec 20:30 UTC: Xubuntu meeting === _czessi is now known as Czessi === Shely is now known as MJ086 === \sh_away is now known as \sh [08:12] moin === doko_ is now known as doko === n2diy_ is now known as n2diy === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === asac_ is now known as asac [12:45] hello [12:46] is popey sir there? [13:03] is popey sir there? [13:04] yes === asac_ is now known as asac [13:29] hi === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team Development Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Nov 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 01 Dec 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 01 Dec 19:00 UTC: Art Team | 04 Dec 16:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 05 Dec 20:30 UTC: Xubuntu meeting [13:52] hi [13:53] hi pitti [13:55] * mvo waves [13:56] * ccm waves but only reads until the next meeting :) [13:57] Riddell: here? [13:57] Greetings everybody! [13:58] yo [13:59] * Keybuk wonders whether Ted is up yet [14:00] hi Riddell [14:00] let's get going anyway [14:00] I've been collecting agenda items at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/DevelopmentMeeting [14:00] (and this also links to the previous meeting minutes now) [14:01] so previous meeting actions [14:01] kwwii: is the art-team spec ready for review? [14:01] Keybuk: yes [14:01] kwwii: could you mark it as Review in LP? [14:01] desktopEffects I'll have finished by tomorrow, face-browser is done and the other two are also done by the weekend [14:01] Keybuk: will do [14:02] hi kwwii [14:02] hi MacSlow [14:02] ok, so the following actions get carried over [14:02] ACTION: kwwii to complete hardy-theme and hardy-icon-theme after decision at London presentation [14:03] ACTION: MacSlow to complete drafting of hardy-desktop-effects and other assigned specs [14:03] ok, so spec progress [14:04] not expecting anything significant at this point, but if you have any interesting highlights, please shout out when your name is called ;) [14:04] Riddell: ? [14:04] KDE 4 packages are all done for this round [14:04] cool, so updated beta for alpha 1? [14:05] release candiate infact [14:05] which RC? [14:05] KDE 4 rc 1 [14:05] good work! [14:05] although KDE 4 will probably be delayed until early january [14:05] oh, why the hold up? [14:06] lots of bits are broken [14:06] people were complining you can't change the desktop background, that seems to be a favourite feature [14:06] I also packaged trolltech's webkitkde for konqueror, still very experimental but promising [14:06] oh, the confusement [14:07] so webkit started as khtml, used by konq, and now knoq uses webkit? :) [14:07] that's the circle of life [14:07] indeed [14:07] ok, thanks [14:07] kwwii: your specs are largely blocking on the london meeting next week, but any interesting developments? [14:08] (New queue processing on webkitkde appreciated archive admins) [14:08] noted ^ [14:08] nothing amazing, I have just about every idea under the sun in the presentation, we'll see what comes of that [14:08] :-) If you want to send me another draft, please feel free [14:08] one thing with the art team that we are blocked on is getting out the new art.ubuntu.com site [14:08] who is that blocking on? [14:09] Keybuk: I'll send you something in a few hours [14:09] it is waiting for some code review [14:09] LP? IS? newz2000? [14:10] yeah, newz2000 got the new stuff running but he told me it is waiting for review [14:10] I am guessing it is some lp functionality which was missing before [14:11] ok [14:11] do you need any pressure from me to help that through? do you have bug#s or anything? [14:11] at this point we have only been waiting for a couple of weeks, if it gets to be a month and nothing happens I'll move the pressure up a notch [14:12] ok [14:12] please do let me know [14:12] will do [14:12] pitti: any interesting developments/progress to report this early? [14:12] nothing beyond my weekly report === asac_ is now known as asac [14:13] I was mainly hacking on r-m and doing archive/release stuff [14:13] but there's nothing shiny about the new r-m yet [14:13] (and dapper.2, but nothing for this meeting) [14:13] pitti, hey... we can do widget-reflections now ;) [14:14] *nods* I have added the discussion about weekly reports to the team leads meeting later today; my preference is just to include all of yours in our own team meeting report [14:14] Keybuk: versus what? [14:15] versus a single one for the entire distro team, for example [14:15] Ah okay. [14:15] (which was the original plan which has never happened :p) [14:15] mvo: anything interesting? [14:15] compiz: git HEAD packages almost ready for upload, keybinding settings [14:15] changed, need to be updated [14:15] but otherwise its good to go [14:15] is git head based on 0.6 or 0.7? [14:15] 0.7 [14:16] what's the progress like on that? [14:16] all packages are ready, the complete stack needs to get uploaded [14:16] upstream, I mean [14:16] not too much new stuff in 0.7 yet, it seems everyone is waiting for the new object system branch to get merged [14:16] is 0.7 an unstable serie? [14:16] yes [14:17] will they get a stable one before hardy? [14:17] (just curious there) [14:17] they told us they will branch a stable in time [14:17] ok [14:17] MacSlow: any word from david yet? [14:17] upgrades are working okish too, dapper->hardy inside kvm with the release-upgrader and backported apt/dpkg works now (server upgrade only) [14:17] mvo, no :/ I'll tell you first once I do get a reply [14:18] dapper->hardy with ubuntu-desktop is currently runnig on my machine, I got some file overwrite problems and postinst issues, but its not yet finished [14:18] (thats all) [14:18] ok, thanks [14:18] MacSlow: ? [14:19] Keybuk, you too don't worry :) [14:19] I mean any interesting highlights to report for the past week? [14:20] well the most interesting thing is probably that I got redirected widget-rendering working in gtk+ (with some cairo-magic) http://macslow.thepimp.net/clips/reflected-widgets-1.ogg [14:21] boah, killer [14:21] in the works and not done are similar experiments with redirected gtk+-widgets _ontop_ of a OpenG-context [14:21] MacSlow: That's pretty cool. [14:21] but that will probably still take a day or two more [14:22] very shiny :-) [14:22] tedg: any interesting news to report? I know you've spent the past week on gnome-screensaver, etc. [14:22] Nothing interesting. [14:22] Working on the screensaver blueprint. [14:22] Do you want to look at removing "boring" screensavers? [14:22] I saw a question about a Debian screensaver? [14:23] tedg, i guess it would make sense to review our default hacks selection in xscreensaver [14:23] boring ones, those that are impossible to use without configuration, etc. [14:23] the list we ship is quite old [14:23] (the question of actually getting configuration back is +n material) [14:23] tedg, are the rss-screensavers in main? [14:23] there are surely new intresting ones [14:23] Yeah, apparently adding the Debian logo screensaver might offend Debian. I don't get it, but that was the chat last night. [14:23] MacSlow, yep [14:23] I like those [14:23] it would be better to offer only a few really good ones that including a long list of useless/ugly crap [14:23] s/that/than [14:23] MacSlow, very expensive ressource wise though [14:24] screensavers are something so useless... but so fun thing to hack on [14:24] Okay, we might need to have a selection for older computers and such. [14:24] if you take them away expect people to show up at yur door :) [14:24] ogra, hm... joa... kind of battery-burning [14:24] * Keybuk uses "Blank Screen" and the f-spot screensaver, heh [14:24] users love screensavers ... whyever [14:25] we can always have a -extra ;) [14:25] ogra, funky and shiny screensavers rock on booth-computers at computer-fairs [14:25] we already have that :) [14:25] Should we break the "Ubuntu Screensaver" into it's own package so that it's easier to theme? [14:25] Keybuk, -extra-extra you mean ;) [14:25] -read-all-about-it [14:25] (or is that rss?) [14:25] tedg: I can't remember what the theme plans are this time? kwwii would know [14:26] Also, my other question: does it make sense to have an "Ubuntu your video card sucks" and a "Ubuntu it looks nice"? [14:27] I have no problem with it only working on decent video cards [14:27] ok, thanks [14:28] I didn't receive any additional agenda items this week [14:28] so we do have any other business? [14:28] Keybuk: Okay. I think we should keep it simple though -- for things like LTSP. Not over the top. [14:28] I wanted to ask about the art-packages, who got stuck with those? kwwii? [14:29] tedg: yeah [14:29] apparently so [14:29] tedg, LTSP wrt screensaver you mean ? [14:29] tedg, Keybuk: i915 are decent... as long as you're not a hard-core fps-gamer [14:29] ogra: Yeah. [14:29] tedg: I think the screensaver should be in a seperate packge [14:29] tedg, there is a patch that disables anything but blanking for LTSP clients [14:30] Keybuk: Okay, I knew I was on the list at some point, I wanted to make sure I didn't miss getting tagged :) [14:30] tedg, Keybuk: unfortunately "decent" is more dependent on driver and exposed GL-features [14:30] kwwii, the "screensaver" is in 6 separate packages atm, how much fragmentation do you want ? [14:31] tedg, Keybuk: I wonder if it would make sense to write a cairo-only screensaver-module (assuming proper EXA-support) [14:31] ogra: Good to know, no performance issues on blank :) [14:31] ogra: I just want the ubuntu one to be in a package of it's own so that art people can update it without a problem, in addition to allowing other variants to use their logo [14:32] Yeah, it would be nice of there was a default Ubuntu Studio screensaver that would work there also by default. [14:32] kwwii, thats the purpose of xscreensaver-data [14:32] it just needs a cleanup of the list it ships [14:32] (-data are all non GL screensavers we ship by default ... the GL ones are in xscreensaver-gl) [14:33] Does data have .desktop files in it? [14:33] yep [14:33] it generates them in debian/rules iirc [14:34] how easy is it or variants to change the logo and include only their version in their variant atm? [14:34] they can just add their hack and change the gconf setting [14:34] ogra: Wow, that's a complex rules file -- I'll take your word on it :) [14:35] tedg, feel free to pick my brain if you stumble over anything :) [14:35] ogra: but that would still install the ubuntu version as well, or? [14:35] ok, sounds like this can be taken offline now :-) [14:35] kwwii: To replace the Ubuntu one they'd have to spin gnome-screen-saver [14:35] kwwii, right [14:36] any other any other business? [14:36] kwwii, but yzu can make the other one default easily [14:36] Keybuk: nope. [14:36] ogra: right, but the inclusion of an extra logo is what I want to avoid, anyway...we can talk about it later [14:36] kwwii, look at /usr/share/gconf/defaults/10_gnome-screensaver .... if you make a /usr/share/gconf/defaults/20_ubuntustudio-screensaver it will override the settings and you can put "/apps/gnome-screensaver/theme screensavers-ubuntustudio_theme" in it [14:37] the ubuntu one would still be in the selection indeed [14:37] ok, adjourned [14:37] that is what I want to avoid [14:37] thanks everyone [14:37] kwwii, then package it into the artwork packages ;) it doesnt need to be in g-s-s [14:38] thanks [14:38] ogra: right, that was my whole point :p [14:38] whoops, sorry [14:38] kwwii: That's an interesting point, it doesn't need to be it's own package -- it could be in the theme packages. [14:38] pitti: 15:37 < Keybuk> ok, adjourned [14:39] kwwii: thanks [14:39] tedg: yeah, that was really what I meant when I said "put it in it's own package" [14:39] * ogra misundersood, sorry [14:39] when I say "it" I just mean the artwork :p [14:39] heh [14:40] yeah, thats trivial, just grab the svg and .desktop file from 01_ubuntu_floaters.patch out of the gnome-screensaver package [14:40] and put them in the right place [14:41] Okay, so that sounds good. We'll put the Ubuntu screensaver in an art package. [14:42] So that then, art things can be done to it ;) [14:42] yeah === \sh is now known as \sh_away [14:42] and the art team actually gets the bugs about the artwork ;) [14:43] * ogra suggests to put a unlock screen theme in teher as well [14:43] *there [14:43] oh no, you can keep the bugs :p [14:43] hehe [14:43] ogra: yeah, we wanted to add that for gutsy but it was too late [14:43] yeah [15:26] @schedule europe/rome [15:26] Schedule for Europe/Rome: Current meeting: Desktop Team Development 29 Nov 17:00: Community Council | 01 Dec 12:00: Kubuntu Developers | 01 Dec 20:00: Art Team | 04 Dec 17:00: Server Team meeting | 05 Dec 21:30: Xubuntu meeting === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 29 Nov 16:00 UTC: Community Council | 01 Dec 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 01 Dec 19:00 UTC: Art Team | 04 Dec 16:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 05 Dec 20:30 UTC: Xubuntu meeting [15:38] @schedule europe/berlin [15:38] Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 29 Nov 17:00: Community Council | 01 Dec 12:00: Kubuntu Developers | 01 Dec 20:00: Art Team | 04 Dec 17:00: Server Team meeting | 05 Dec 21:30: Xubuntu meeting [15:38] nice, timezone calc [15:47] @schedule america/brazil [15:48] @schedule america/brazil/east [15:48] @schedule america/saopaulo [15:49] @schedule america/sao_paulo [15:49] Schedule for America/Sao_Paulo: 29 Nov 14:00: Community Council | 01 Dec 09:00: Kubuntu Developers | 01 Dec 17:00: Art Team | 04 Dec 14:00: Server Team meeting | 05 Dec 18:30: Xubuntu meeting [15:49] thanks :D [15:49] np === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Community Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Dec 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 01 Dec 19:00 UTC: Art Team | 04 Dec 16:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 05 Dec 20:30 UTC: Xubuntu meeting [15:59] * Burgundavia yawns [16:00] * coolbhavi waiting [16:00] * ogra pokes a finger in Burgundavias mouth [16:00] *me laughs [16:00] * RainCT thinks oops [16:00] hello [16:00] * ScottK looks for coffee. [16:01] morning [16:01] good morning [16:01] whose idea was it schedule at 8am my time? [16:01] * somerville32 crawls out of bed. [16:01] we have an agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda - let's get started [16:01] good afternoon :) [16:01] hi all [16:02] do we have quorum yet? [16:02] first up would be Jono, but as he's ill we won't have the "LoCo Council Proposal" discussion today [16:02] Burgundavia: its got to be early for somebody! [16:02] Burgundavia: it seems it's you, MikeB-, elmo and me today [16:02] I thought sabdfl could make it [16:03] sabdfl should be coming [16:03] I pinged somebody to ping him [16:03] oh erk, it's a CC meeting already [16:03] with four of us, we still can move on now [16:03] this says i really should be in bed! [16:04] first up is the New Jersey Loco Team [16:04] Hello! [16:04] do we have anybody of the New Jersey team here? [16:04] * Hobbsee would like to register her great objections to Kmos' application for membership, seeing as she's here. [16:04] hi [16:04] hello [16:05] hi all [16:05] hello all [16:05] Some of our members weren't able to make it on such short notice. Others are late rousers :) [16:05] hi sabdfl [16:06] hello sabdfl [16:06] what are the plans for the next time for your team? [16:06] hi all [16:06] hi all [16:07] next time? [16:07] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewJerseyTeam/Events doesn't say anything about the future :) [16:07] It's on the application. We're planning a Linux LAN Party at my house in December. Looks like it'll be December 22nd [16:07] still ironing out a date on that. [16:08] That, and we'll have another installfest for Gutsy. We'll probably go back to the Columbus Farmer's market, since the previous event there was a success. [16:08] nice [16:08] how many people are on the team and help out regularly? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewJerseyTeam/Team lists 4 members? [16:09] * jedijf does [16:09] * christinaeater helps out too [16:09] and Trenton Computer Festival is in April. Dave (he couldn't make it) is organizing talks to TCF. We'll have another big table there [16:10] Bryan, Dave, Christina, Me, Jim. One of our members, Chris, is away in California for an extended period. [16:10] it seems like 5 regulars and then 2 to 3 floaters per event [16:10] Besides that, we have a lot of support from the Cherry Hill Linux User Group, the Rutgers SLUG, and the Princeton LUG [16:11] And a few newer members who I won't meeting until the LAN Party :) [16:11] how many people attend your IRC meetings? [16:11] and we seem to have drawn some younger members that have transportation issues at the moment [16:11] what do you use those IRC meetings for? [16:12] Honestly, the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewJerseyTeam/Team wasn't one I created, or aware of, so I haven't kept it up to date :) [16:12] it's linked from the menu bar :) [16:12] dholbach, between 4 and 8 usually. Usually to come up with new ideas for events, or to prepare for an upcoming event. I try to have a meeting the week before [16:12] there are about 70 members or the launchpad page: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-nj/+members [16:12] s/or/on/ [16:13] * Joe_CoT will remove or update it later. [16:13] One of the auxiliary members recently made some changes while i wasn't lookin [16:13] looks good to me [16:14] * jedijf exhales [16:14] ;-) [16:14] for how long does your team exist? [16:15] *thinks* I picked it up from OgMaciel sometime in November 2006. I started giving talks at Local LUGS after that, and our first event was TCF last April [16:15] elmo, MikeB-, Burgundavia: are you having any questions? [16:16] :) [16:16] nope +1 from me [16:16] nope, +1 from me. I would update the wiki though:) [16:16] err sorry to interrupt... am I late? [16:16] * coolbhavi wondering [16:17] +1 [16:17] +1 from me too, and MikeB++ - that's really important [16:18] sabdfl: I guess your "looks good to me" means "+1"? :) [16:19] indeed [16:19] any further questions? [16:19] ok, then well done NJ and welcome aboard! [16:19] none here congrats [16:20] yay! [16:20] Joe_CoT: congrats to the NJ team! [16:20] thank you :D [16:20] it seems we have an approved New Jersey Loco Team - congratulations :) [16:20] \o/ \o/ Congrats NJ!!!! [16:20] yay congrats! [16:20] congrats NJ [16:20] * jedijf cheers [16:20] Thanks guys! :D [16:20] congrat, Joe_CoT [16:20] :) [16:21] congrats! [16:21] Next up is the Georgia team! Who represents Georgia here? :) [16:21] Hello everyone! I'm Jon Reagan, Council member for the Georgia LoCo Team [16:21] I might be the only one here... one of our guys is on vacation, and the others are busy at work (not quite lunch yet!) [16:22] you mention sub teams on your page - how are they coming along? [16:22] very good! we have a support team, marketing team, new user team... [16:22] they each consist of one person, and each are doing great things [16:23] you have, in fact, the *seeds* of three teams there ;-) [16:23] but it sounds great [16:23] they are seeds indeed... :) [16:24] i see your mailing list is relatively busy [16:24] the forums and mailing lists look quite busy too [16:24] hehe [16:24] Jon, I lived in Georgia about 5 years ago, so I'm familiar with the linux scene their [16:24] nice! [16:25] seems like your event schedule has been pretty busy [16:25] which cities are you most busy in? [16:25] where do you have your meetings, and do you work with ALE and CHUGALUG (my old LUG) closely [16:25] mainly atlanta [16:26] we have been working with ALE for the InstallFest (and future Installfests as well) [16:26] any presence in Athens [16:27] We do have several members who are in athens [16:27] they work with FreeIT Athens [16:27] this looks well organised to me [16:27] +1 [16:27] to me too: +1 [16:27] +1 from me [16:27] Burgundavia, elmo? [16:28] +1 [16:28] +1 from me [16:28] nice work Georgia! congrats! [16:28] ok, welcome aboard! [16:28] JonReagan: congrats on GA! [16:28] Thank you so much! [16:28] well done GA [16:28] next up is New Mexico! :) [16:28] :) [16:28] Good job, GA, congrats [16:28] alrighty [16:28] \o/ \o/ Congrats GA!!!! [16:28] NM! [16:28] Hello From New Mexico [16:29] hey tritium :) [16:29] cheers! [16:29] i like the look of the two fools ;-) [16:29] congrats Georgia, Go Dawgs!!! :) [16:29] holy cow... this page looks good, lots of action on the mailing list [16:30] I can't wait to have some shepherds pie. [16:30] looks good from me - any comments from the team? [16:31] when is the next quarterly install fest? [16:31] We will actually have a meeting tonight to get a solid date, I'm hoping for mid January. [16:33] I'm pretty happy with what I've seen: +1 [16:33] +1 from me too [16:33] +1 here, great work [16:33] +1 from me [16:34] elmo? [16:34] +1 [16:34] congratulations New Mexico! [16:34] dthomasdigital, boredandblogging: congrats on GA approval! [16:34] fantastic!!! [16:34] go GA [16:34] :-) [16:34] er, NM i meant! :) [16:34] * Zelut throws in the obligatory "w00t" [16:34] * atoponce is not awake quite yet [16:35] Happy folks in NM [16:35] congrats NM [16:35] * greg-g oh yeah, NM... ;) [16:35] Next up is the Danish Loco team - who's here from Denmark? [16:35] * Hobbsee will pretend to speak danish, if required [16:36] soren is from Denmark. [16:36] ok... let's move on to the folks of the Michigan team then and get back to Denmark later [16:36] Who's here from the Michigan team? [16:36] Hello, I'm Greg Grossmeier, Team Lead/Contact for the Michigan LoCo Team (where it is a pleasent -1*C today). We also have a few team members here watching today. [16:37] * AlexDeGruven raises his hand [16:37] * rick_h_ looks from the shadows [16:37] \o/ [16:37] * atoponce cheers on greg-g and MI [16:37] * tjagoda raised hand [16:37] [it'd be wrong to +1 the michigan team on the basis of the RHCP song, right?] [16:38] elmo: never wrong to +1 MI === dendrobates is now known as dendro-away [16:38] :) [16:38] as wrong as it would be to -1 them on the basis of jorge living in the state ;) [16:38] interesting - seems quite a few folks came to the last irc meeting [16:38] !away > dendro-away (see the pm from ubotu) [16:38] is chris dibona based in michigan? [16:38] no, he's in CA [16:38] sabdfl: no.. ... [16:39] he came and saw us with Mako a bit ago though [16:39] see rick_h's answer :) [16:39] good of him to show up then :-) [16:39] how many folks are regulars at your meetings? [16:39] anywhere from 2 of us (bad busy days) to 10ish [16:39] I'm particularly happy to see PackagingJams happening in Michigan - that's awesome: how many people of you are considering becoming MOTUs? what do you think? [16:39] usually physical meetings are much larger than irc meetings somehow === OgMaciel is now known as GnuKemist [16:40] yeah, we haven't found a great time for everyone to make IRC meetings yet [16:40] greg-g: where in the state are you based [16:40] dholbach: right now there's maybe 2-4 of us. We're hoping to repeat the packaging jam in Jan and increase that [16:40] ok, looks fine to me, +1 [16:40] I am in Ann Arbor, South East side.. where most people are [16:40] rick_h_: that's great, I'm really happy to see that happening [16:41] dholbach: and some people are just interested for other reasons than being MOTUs [16:41] apart from that the Loco seems to be really really organised, I'm happy to give +1 [16:41] +1 [16:41] a stunning amount of work, +1 from me [16:41] +1 here [16:41] greg-g, rick_h_: let's chat about that again, once I've got the packaging guide under control :) [16:41] greg-g: runs a tight ship [16:41] dholbach: most definitely [16:41]