[01:51] <embrace-Ubuntu> where is alpha 1??
[01:52] <IdleOne> !seen alpha1
[01:52] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen alpha1 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[01:57] <RAOF> Oooh.  2.6.24 is sitting in NEW.  Yay, my laptop can soon benefit from the tickless kernel!
[02:01] <embrace-Ubuntu> !alpha1
[02:01] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about alpha1 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[02:01] <RAOF> Out soon.
[02:24] <embrace-Ubuntu> is alpha delayed??
[02:25] <cafuego> Yes
[02:25] <embrace-Ubuntu> to garantee the quality????
[02:26] <Toma-> Yep, its going to be the most alpha quality release ever
[02:27] <Toma-> :)
[02:27] <WorkingOnWise> Toma-: U being facetious or for real? Is this alpha expected to be quite goot?
[02:28] <WorkingOnWise> good
[02:28] <Toma-> hehehe
[02:28] <Toma-> you do know what alpha quality means right?
[02:30] <WorkingOnWise> I ask because I ran 7.04 from the first herd and was constantly amazed at the great stability of the "alpha" code.....better that any stable M$ OS I'd ever run!
[02:31] <Toma-> Well, its your choice
[02:31] <WorkingOnWise> Toma-: if M$ OS's were that good in production...I wouldnt be running Ubuntu 7.10 now!
[02:32] <WorkingOnWise> But I do know...YMMV
[02:32] <WorkingOnWise> and ppl here get cranky if I cry about an alpha breaking my laptop!
[02:33] <WorkingOnWise> but I've been off the alpha and beta code for like 6 months now....time to bring on more breakage!
[03:15] <bernier> Hi, how do I get the latest 8.42.3 drivers from hardy repos?
[03:36] <bernier> Hi, is it possible to compile fglrx on hardy even if hardy id not in the --buildpkg option?
[03:37] <telexicon> did they release alpha 1?
[03:37] <bernier> yes
[03:37] <telexicon> excellent
[03:38] <bernier> gksu "update-manager -c -d"
[03:38] <RAOF> bernier: I'd suggest "sudo aptitude install xorg-driver-fglrx" if you want to get 8.42.3
 I did
[03:38] <RAOF> Then that's what you'll get.  8.42.3
[03:38] <bernier> but it seems buggy
[03:38] <RAOF> Damn straight.
[03:38] <RAOF> Those aren't production drivers :)
[03:38] <telexicon> bernier, no.. i want the CDs because I need to test the installer because its always buggy
[03:39] <bernier> i get something in corner right "testing use only unsupported hardware"
[03:39] <bernier> RAOF: they were working well under gutsy :P
[03:39] <RAOF> telexicon: The cds haven't been released yet, because they haven't been built yet - the installer was being dificult earlier.
[03:39] <telexicon> RAOF, oh ok
[03:41] <RAOF> bernier: If they're buggy, then file bugs :)
[03:41] <bernier> k, may I have the link?
[03:41] <RAOF> That's presumably what you're running Hardy for, anyway :)
[03:41] <bernier> yes it is :P and also I like being bleeding edge
[03:41] <RAOF> launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22/+bugs , I think.
[03:58] <bernier> ok got a problem on hardy, opened programs are not shown in the bottom taskbar of gnome
[04:13] <Hobbsee> !gpg
[04:13] <ubotu> gpg is the GNU Privacy Guard.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto and class #8 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts
[05:58] <WorkingOnWise> ok...I'm about ready to jump off the clif and stat running Hardy. Is x stable as of the latest updates?
[05:58] <WorkingOnWise> cliff
[05:58] <RAOF> For me, yes.
[05:59] <WorkingOnWise> Have u heard any major problem, just for the latest? Once I'm into it, well, I'll deal with the problems, but I'd like to start smoothe :)
[08:24] <vbgunz> fellas, what do I have to do, other than wish for something, to get my idea seriously considered for Hardy?
[08:26] <vbgunz> I am looking at blueprints now
[09:32] <telexicon> vbgunz, come up with a proposal.. and put some development behind it?
[09:32] <telexicon> and start 2 months ago
[09:32] <h3sp4wn> vbgunz: either impliment it yourself or find someone to do it or pay someone to do it (if its anything difficult it is unlikely to happen)
[12:56] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 4 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[13:04] <khermans_> is alpha released yet?
[13:10] <khermans_> i am unable to dist-upgrade to hardy
[13:10] <khermans_> i have done this many times in the past from ubuntu to ubuntu+1 after first alpha
[13:12] <khermans_> libfaad-dev causes problems
[13:16] <h3sp4wn> khermans_: just remove it then and complete the upgrade
[13:16] <h3sp4wn> then put it back
[13:16] <h3sp4wn> (if infact you actually need it anyway)
[13:17] <khermans_> h3sp4wn, right of course, i already did that
[13:18] <khermans_> h3sp4wn, i just wanted to let everyone know
[13:18] <h3sp4wn> khermans_: so what is the problem ?
[13:18] <khermans_> h3sp4wn, nada :-P  waiting for hardy to dist-upgrade...
[13:18] <khermans_> cant wait!
[13:18]  * Hobbsee wonders why it causes problems
[13:48] <effie_jayx> can one download an iso of the alpha?
[13:49] <IdleOne> effie_jayx: see /topic
[13:50] <effie_jayx> IdleOne,  sorry ... thanks
[13:51] <effie_jayx> I am currently planning to install for testing packages for my MOTU work
[13:51] <effie_jayx> so and update would do?
[13:52] <ember> there's the testing iso @ https://iso.qa.stgraber.org
[13:55] <effie_jayx> ember,  thanks
[15:09] <BUGabundo> hya
[15:09] <BUGabundo> I did a parcial upgrade for hardy
[15:09] <BUGabundo> and everything seems to be working fine
[15:10] <BUGabundo> just bug-buddy, was giving too many prob. I had to remove it
[15:11] <BUGabundo> hya jenda
[15:11] <khermans_> dist-upgrade from feisty->hardy very successful!
[15:11] <khermans_> i mean gutsy->hardy
[15:11] <BUGabundo> me too khermans_
[15:12] <khermans_> BUGabundo, very nice
[15:12] <BUGabundo> didn't you have any trouble with bug-buddy?
[15:12] <khermans_> only thing i had to remove was libfaad-dev
[15:12] <BUGabundo> I had to repair X11
[15:12] <BUGabundo> but that was expected
[15:12] <khermans_> my X worked just fine!
[15:12] <BUGabundo> bulteproof did it magic!
[15:13] <BUGabundo> I haven't done and dist-upgrade yet
[15:13] <BUGabundo> still with the old kernel
[15:13] <khermans_> well, how did you get to hardy hen?
[15:13] <BUGabundo> only changed my reps, and did and upgrade
[15:13] <khermans_> then?
[15:13] <khermans_> dude!
[15:13] <khermans_> you should never do that
[15:13] <BUGabundo> it worked just fine
[15:13] <khermans_> always do dist-upgrade
[15:13] <BUGabundo> update-manager, wanted to change too much
[15:13] <khermans_> i never use just plain upgrade
[15:14] <BUGabundo> "59 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 108 not upgraded."
[15:15] <BUGabundo> is it safe to do and dist-upgrade ?
[15:15] <BUGabundo> in my case, it tried to remove ubuntu-desktop
[15:16] <BUGabundo> is it safe to do and dist-upgrade, khermans_ ?
[15:18]  * Pici looks at topic
[15:18] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo: by what you're saying, you don't want to run hardy.
[15:18] <BUGabundo> Pici: it seems it quite safe!
[15:18] <BUGabundo> I want.
[15:18] <BUGabundo> but I want for it to work
[15:19] <Pici> BUGabundo: Then you really dont want to run Hardy.
[15:19] <BUGabundo> Hobbsee: if everythings aint working, there is no use for it
[15:19] <Hobbsee> well, if he upgrades, or keeps his partial upgrade, then he himself can fix it - or learn why it's a bad idea.  *shrug*
[15:20] <Pici> BUGabundo: The whole point of these pre-releases is to fix the things that arent working, so you will come across a lot of breakage.
[15:20] <BUGabundo> I'll be doing and update-manager when I see that no vital packages are removed
[15:20] <BUGabundo> I expecte breakage
[15:20] <BUGabundo> I'm fine with that
[15:20] <BUGabundo> but at least I'll have to have a bootble and networkalbe pc
[15:21] <BUGabundo> lol
[15:21] <BUGabundo> when I jumped to feisty herd 2, I had to boot from the livecd, just to go to the net
[15:21] <BUGabundo> lol
[15:21] <Hobbsee> this depends on your network, how good you are at fixing network manager, or doing it by hand if nm blows up.
[15:21] <BUGabundo> with hardy, I've found that bug-buggy gives me probs
[15:22] <BUGabundo> maybe I should report it on LP
[15:22] <Hobbsee> of course, your system should boot, most of the time.  i think the record number of separate times that someone had to chroot into their system and update it, as it wouldn't reboot, was 5.
[15:22] <Hobbsee> fairly sure it 's already reported.
[15:22] <BUGabundo> Hobbsee: I have no trouble setting up a manual connection, even for WiFi
[15:22] <Hobbsee> good
[15:22] <Hobbsee> as long as you don't file crap bugs, you'll be fine.
[15:23] <BUGabundo> let me check LP for that bug
[15:23] <BUGabundo> on another topic
[15:23] <BUGabundo> I see to much use of HD
[15:23] <BUGabundo> does nay one see that too?
[15:23] <Hobbsee> no
[15:24] <BUGabundo> not sure if it is kmail and bogofilter filtering emails!
[15:24] <BUGabundo> I only see this, when I'm online
[15:25] <Hobbsee> is top showing anything of interest as to what the process using cpu is?
[15:27] <BUGabundo> Hobbsee: I can't see any process using to much CPU
[15:27] <BUGabundo> not on top, nor atop
[15:27] <BUGabundo> but lots of disk I/O and page file on atop
[15:27] <Hobbsee> debug it, find out what it is, then come back
[15:29] <BUGabundo> how can I debug it Hobbsee?
[15:29] <BUGabundo> I can post a screenshot, if you like!
[15:30] <BUGabundo> on atop I see stuff like 105% disk use
[15:30] <Hobbsee> i don't know, but i'd suggest google would help you
[15:36] <BUGabundo> hobe take a look if you want
[15:36] <BUGabundo> http://fileland.bugabundo.net/Linux/top.png
[15:36] <BUGabundo> http://fileland.bugabundo.net/Linux/atop2.png
[15:39] <BUGabundo> one more question ppl
[15:39] <BUGabundo> is it proper to
[15:39] <BUGabundo> awake and old bug?
[15:40] <BUGabundo> #63456 seems to fit my prob with bug-buddy
[15:40] <BUGabundo> but its from 2006
[15:42] <Pici> bug 63456
[15:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 63456 in nautilus-cd-burner "Bug-buddy keeps reporting a crash and nautilus does not work (dup-of: 62739)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63456
[15:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 62739 in liboobs "[shares-admin] nautilus crashed when i logon gnome in edgy" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62739
[15:42] <BUGabundo> bug 173071
[15:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173071 in bug-buddy "[hardy] bug-buddy keeps reporting errors" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173071
[15:43] <BUGabundo> what do you think Pici?
[15:43] <Hobbsee> ...then tell it to ignore the crash
[15:43] <Pici> BUGabundo: What app does it say is crashing?
[15:43] <Hobbsee> it's saved all the crashes from when you installed, up till the last bug-buddy upgrade, where apport got turned on.
[15:44] <BUGabundo> I can't hib
[15:44]  * Hobbsee is not hib
[15:44]  * Hobbsee would also close it as WORKSFORME
[15:44] <Pici> aww, why not?
[15:44] <BUGabundo> pici as far as I could teel from the bug-buddy log, it was gnome-applet Deskbar
[15:44] <Pici> BUGabundo: Thats because deskbar was crashing
[15:44] <Hobbsee> some time ago, probaly
[15:44] <BUGabundo> but since I removed bug-buddy, all my desktop is working fine
[15:45]  * Hobbsee shakes her head.
[15:45] <Pici> I had the same issue when I upgraded.  I reported the bug, then killed deskbar manually, bug buddy stopped coming up
[15:45] <BUGabundo> sorry Hobbsee
[15:46] <BUGabundo> I can't see what I'm writing, since I'm with a lot of I/O and all my desktop freezes!
[15:46] <BUGabundo> I type stuff and wait for it to appear
[15:46] <Hobbsee> close kmail then
[15:46] <Hobbsee> see if it's that
[15:46] <BUGabundo> ok
[15:46] <BUGabundo> kmail closed
[15:47] <Hobbsee> does it help?
[15:47] <BUGabundo> DSK |         sda | busy     62% | read  278215 | write 583465 | avio    8 ms |
[15:47] <BUGabundo> I/O is down a bit
[15:47] <BUGabundo> from 90% to 62%
[15:47] <BUGabundo> still doing an apt-get on another tty
[15:48] <Hobbsee> well, that's going to have an effect, yes....
[15:48] <BUGabundo> but I still lose control of my desktop
[15:48] <BUGabundo> just now, pidgin when blank
[15:48] <Hobbsee> how much ram do you have?
[15:49] <BUGabundo> and firefox-3.0 won't close
[15:49] <BUGabundo> it stays in background at 100% cpu
[15:49] <BUGabundo> I've reported it, but no one took the bug
[15:49] <BUGabundo> 1GiB Hobbsee
[15:49] <Hobbsee> probably because they couldn't reproduce it
[15:49] <Hobbsee> also, it's a beta.
[15:49] <BUGabundo> laptop: PM 1.7 60GiB pata
[15:50] <BUGabundo> 2.5 years old!
[15:50] <BUGabundo> 15GiBs HD free
[15:50] <BUGabundo> either it's the OS (or some apps) or my disk is dying
[15:50] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo: you have to realise - people can't just look at your bugs and see the problem, for the most part.  they have to actually try to reproduce it, so they can debug it.
[15:50] <BUGabundo> I know! there are so many!
[15:50] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo: and you have to debug it far enough in the first place to actually make it worht their time.
[15:50] <BUGabundo> I see them coming on the mails.... even I get scared!
[15:51] <h3sp4wn> BUGabundo: could be the bios impliementation or the way the motherboard is designed - there is tons of stuff it could be
[15:51] <BUGabundo> maybe h3sp4wn
[15:51] <BUGabundo> but as been working fine since 6.10
[15:51] <BUGabundo> gusty when smooth
[15:51] <h3sp4wn> BUGabundo: i.e the dodgy hacks usually get put in later on
[15:51] <Pici> BUGabundo: I know you dont want to hear this, but if you dont want to deal with this many bugs, you should not be running an alpha
[15:51] <BUGabundo> just until I started moving into hardy
[15:51] <BUGabundo> I know all about alphas or even pre-alphas
[15:52] <h3sp4wn> My thinkpad is a p-m 1.7 and works flawless at this moment
[15:52] <Pici> BUGabundo: Then you know the futility of complaing about bugs at this stage.
[15:52] <BUGabundo> but if no one tries then how will stuff move along!?
[15:52] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo: it doesn't help when clueless people try
[15:52] <BUGabundo> ehehe, ok Hobbsee
[15:52] <BUGabundo> that's a low blow!! ehehe
[15:53] <BUGabundo> I'm not complaing, ok?
[15:53] <Hobbsee> you have to actual provide *useful* stuff when testing, or you'll just get ignored.
[15:53] <BUGabundo> I'm trying to see if this are bugs, or just my install
[15:53] <Hobbsee> you're not doing anything overly useful either
[15:53] <BUGabundo> before I report them on LP
[15:53] <Hobbsee> so, debug it, find otu
[15:53] <BUGabundo> "out" ?
[15:53] <BUGabundo> "otu" ?
[15:53] <Pici> out.
[15:54] <Hobbsee> out
[15:54] <BUGabundo> ahh
[15:54] <BUGabundo> ok
[15:55] <BUGabundo> so, from the few that have tried it, is it minimal safe to do and dist-upgrade?
[15:55] <BUGabundo> I'm just fine with my current status, with just and apt-get upgrade to hardy
[15:56] <h3sp4wn> That would mess stuff up you need to full-upgrade between releases
[15:56] <h3sp4wn> (I usually take the aptitude from the later branch and its dep's install that and then use that to do the upgrade)
[15:57] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo: if you're not running the latest code, you can't effectively be reporting bugs
[15:57] <Hobbsee> however, you want to stay away from really buggy stuff
[15:57] <BUGabundo> it scares me a bit seeing 64 packages being removed
[15:58] <BUGabundo> I'll upgrade with update-manager and see how it goes
[15:59] <Hobbsee> it'll probably bail
[15:59] <BUGabundo> no mater
[15:59] <Hobbsee> then you'll just fix it manually
[15:59] <BUGabundo> as long as my data is safe.
[15:59] <BUGabundo> I 'll just reinstall on one of my hands-on sessions of ubuntu
[16:00] <BUGabundo> its a good chance to show students how it is done
[16:00] <Hobbsee> ...your data isn't sfe
[16:00] <Hobbsee> it may eat parts of your data
[16:00] <BUGabundo> it aint? lol
[16:00] <BUGabundo> hope not
[16:00] <Pici> BUGabundo: When I upgraded, I had to go through a few iterations of aptitude suggestions before I felt comfortable with a solution that wouldn't entirely break my system.
[16:00] <BUGabundo> my last back is one month old
[16:00] <h3sp4wn> aptitude just did what I wanted without much proding
[16:00] <Hobbsee> BUGabundo: then you're an idiot, if you're seriously considering upgrading to hardy at this point.
[16:00] <h3sp4wn> just used the curses ui
[16:01] <Hobbsee> but hey, lose your data.  you'll learn the next time you try
[16:01] <BUGabundo> I know!
[16:01] <BUGabundo> idiots learn the hard way
[16:01] <BUGabundo> lol
[16:01]  * Hobbsee has only managed to lose all of her rss feeds, so far, due to an upgrade.
[16:01] <BUGabundo> don't you worry Hobbsee
[16:01] <BUGabundo> most of my data is safe
[16:01] <h3sp4wn> 16:00 < BUGabundo> its a good chance to show students how it is done (that is worrying)
[16:01] <Hobbsee> no idea what happened - i just saw it vanished.
[16:02] <BUGabundo> really strange
[16:02] <BUGabundo> so far, everything when fine
[16:02] <BUGabundo> other then the X break and bugbuddy
[16:02] <Hobbsee> h3sp4wn: if he wants to be an idiot, let him.  and don't help him when it breaks, do other, more useful stuff.
[16:02] <BUGabundo> h3sp4wn: I meant the install process
[16:03] <BUGabundo> there aint enough free PCs for everyone
[16:03] <BUGabundo> you can check our topics here
[16:04] <BUGabundo> http://docs.google.com/View.aspx?docid=afwwtkhg6gn_aj8z6fsv5kx
[16:04] <BUGabundo> oh another question (from the idiot):
[16:04] <BUGabundo> how come apt-cacher won't mirro hardy reps?
[16:05] <BUGabundo> I can only make it work with gutsy, and previous!
[16:05] <BUGabundo> *mirror
[16:06] <h3sp4wn> BUGabundo: Surely if you are teaching students to do this there is someone in your organisation who can help you
[16:07] <BUGabundo> there aint many!
[16:07] <BUGabundo> we were able to get almost everyting ready for this weekend and the next
[16:08] <h3sp4wn> BUGabundo: high school or university ?
[16:08] <BUGabundo> and the "bosses" canceled the events
[16:08] <BUGabundo> Universaty
[16:08] <BUGabundo> Computer Science Eng.
[16:08] <BUGabundo> www.dei.isep.ipp.pt check it out!
[16:09] <BUGabundo> our mailinglist www.dei.isep.ipp.pt/LinuxNoDEI
[16:11] <BUGabundo> back to class
[16:11] <BUGabundo> see you in a bit
[18:20]  * ccooke wonders how broken Hardy is ATM
[18:21] <Dr_willis> saw a little review at a web site yeasterday.
[18:22] <Dr_willis> http://www.ubuntuhq.com/content/ubuntu-8.04-lts-alpha%3A-first-look
[18:23] <Dr_willis> Aside from these package updates and a few other changes, there isn't too much to get excited about with Ubuntu 8.04 "Hardy Heron" Alpha 1. However, with quite a few interesting features on the Hardy Heron Roadmap, it will certainly be an interesting next few months.
[18:33] <h3sp4wn> Since when was the alpha actually released ?
[20:17] <Tuplanolla> Hello. Is the Hardy Alpha 1 released yet?
[20:23] <offipso> Can anyone point me to a reference where developers are talking about Ubuntu's stance on the "forced usability" of Gnome? Like, how do the defaults get chosen (spatial vs. browser, for example).
[20:25] <wasabi> Same way anything gets choosen.
[20:26] <wasabi> General agreement or sabdfl.
[20:27] <offipso> sabdfl? Stolen authority by deranged, foolhardy layperson?
[20:27] <offipso> so if I want to discuss something like using xscreensaver over gnome-screensaver as a default, where does that take place?
[20:28] <Tuplanolla> Is the Hardy's first alpha released yet?
[20:31] <h3sp4wn> No
[20:32] <h3sp4wn> Tuplanolla: Doesn't look much different to me (other than as per usual it seems to work slightly faster) dunno whether that is just because loads of stuff I don't use is broken or what
[20:44] <khermans_> Why do I get this green AMD overlay on my desktop after Hardy upgrade?
[20:44] <khermans_> "Testing use only.  Unsupported Hardware"
[20:44] <khermans_> on IBM ThinkPad laptop T52
[20:45] <khermans_> R52
[20:46] <khermans_> hrmm, oh they mean ATI!!!
[20:48] <Assid> heya
[20:48] <Assid> err.. is compiz working better with gnome/ubuntu than it is with kde ?
[20:49] <h3sp4wn> Assid: probably