[01:51] where is alpha 1?? [01:52] !seen alpha1 [01:52] Sorry, I don't know anything about seen alpha1 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [01:57] Oooh. 2.6.24 is sitting in NEW. Yay, my laptop can soon benefit from the tickless kernel! [02:01] !alpha1 [02:01] Sorry, I don't know anything about alpha1 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [02:01] Out soon. [02:24] is alpha delayed?? [02:25] Yes [02:25] to garantee the quality???? [02:26] Yep, its going to be the most alpha quality release ever [02:27] :) [02:27] Toma-: U being facetious or for real? Is this alpha expected to be quite goot? [02:28] good [02:28] hehehe [02:28] you do know what alpha quality means right? [02:30] I ask because I ran 7.04 from the first herd and was constantly amazed at the great stability of the "alpha" code.....better that any stable M$ OS I'd ever run! [02:31] Well, its your choice [02:31] Toma-: if M$ OS's were that good in production...I wouldnt be running Ubuntu 7.10 now! [02:32] But I do know...YMMV [02:32] and ppl here get cranky if I cry about an alpha breaking my laptop! [02:33] but I've been off the alpha and beta code for like 6 months now....time to bring on more breakage! [03:15] Hi, how do I get the latest 8.42.3 drivers from hardy repos? [03:36] Hi, is it possible to compile fglrx on hardy even if hardy id not in the --buildpkg option? [03:37] did they release alpha 1? [03:37] yes [03:37] excellent [03:38] gksu "update-manager -c -d" [03:38] bernier: I'd suggest "sudo aptitude install xorg-driver-fglrx" if you want to get 8.42.3 [03:38] I did [03:38] Then that's what you'll get. 8.42.3 [03:38] but it seems buggy [03:38] Damn straight. [03:38] Those aren't production drivers :) [03:38] bernier, no.. i want the CDs because I need to test the installer because its always buggy [03:39] i get something in corner right "testing use only unsupported hardware" [03:39] RAOF: they were working well under gutsy :P [03:39] telexicon: The cds haven't been released yet, because they haven't been built yet - the installer was being dificult earlier. [03:39] RAOF, oh ok [03:41] bernier: If they're buggy, then file bugs :) [03:41] k, may I have the link? [03:41] That's presumably what you're running Hardy for, anyway :) [03:41] yes it is :P and also I like being bleeding edge [03:41] launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22/+bugs , I think. === burner__ is now known as burner [03:58] ok got a problem on hardy, opened programs are not shown in the bottom taskbar of gnome [04:13] !gpg [04:13] gpg is the GNU Privacy Guard. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto and class #8 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts [05:58] ok...I'm about ready to jump off the clif and stat running Hardy. Is x stable as of the latest updates? [05:58] cliff [05:58] For me, yes. [05:59] Have u heard any major problem, just for the latest? Once I'm into it, well, I'll deal with the problems, but I'd like to start smoothe :) [08:24] fellas, what do I have to do, other than wish for something, to get my idea seriously considered for Hardy? [08:26] I am looking at blueprints now [09:32] vbgunz, come up with a proposal.. and put some development behind it? [09:32] and start 2 months ago [09:32] vbgunz: either impliment it yourself or find someone to do it or pay someone to do it (if its anything difficult it is unlikely to happen) === jussio1 is now known as jussi01 === Agrajag` is now known as Agrajag [12:56] MOTU Q&A session in 4 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom [13:04] is alpha released yet? === jussi01 is now known as jussio1 [13:10] i am unable to dist-upgrade to hardy [13:10] i have done this many times in the past from ubuntu to ubuntu+1 after first alpha === Agrajag` is now known as Agrajag [13:12] libfaad-dev causes problems [13:16] khermans_: just remove it then and complete the upgrade [13:16] then put it back [13:16] (if infact you actually need it anyway) [13:17] h3sp4wn, right of course, i already did that [13:18] h3sp4wn, i just wanted to let everyone know [13:18] khermans_: so what is the problem ? [13:18] h3sp4wn, nada :-P waiting for hardy to dist-upgrade... [13:18] cant wait! [13:18] * Hobbsee wonders why it causes problems === fredrin_ is now known as fredrin === nanonyme_ is now known as nanonyme === heikki_ is now known as heikki [13:48] can one download an iso of the alpha? [13:49] effie_jayx: see /topic [13:50] IdleOne, sorry ... thanks [13:51] I am currently planning to install for testing packages for my MOTU work [13:51] so and update would do? [13:52] there's the testing iso @ https://iso.qa.stgraber.org [13:55] ember, thanks === valles_ is now known as effie_jayx [15:09] hya [15:09] I did a parcial upgrade for hardy [15:09] and everything seems to be working fine [15:10] just bug-buddy, was giving too many prob. I had to remove it [15:11] hya jenda [15:11] dist-upgrade from feisty->hardy very successful! [15:11] i mean gutsy->hardy [15:11] me too khermans_ [15:12] BUGabundo, very nice [15:12] didn't you have any trouble with bug-buddy? [15:12] only thing i had to remove was libfaad-dev [15:12] I had to repair X11 [15:12] but that was expected [15:12] my X worked just fine! [15:12] bulteproof did it magic! [15:13] I haven't done and dist-upgrade yet [15:13] still with the old kernel [15:13] well, how did you get to hardy hen? [15:13] only changed my reps, and did and upgrade [15:13] then? [15:13] dude! [15:13] you should never do that [15:13] it worked just fine [15:13] always do dist-upgrade [15:13] update-manager, wanted to change too much [15:13] i never use just plain upgrade [15:14] "59 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 108 not upgraded." [15:15] is it safe to do and dist-upgrade ? [15:15] in my case, it tried to remove ubuntu-desktop [15:16] is it safe to do and dist-upgrade, khermans_ ? [15:18] * Pici looks at topic [15:18] BUGabundo: by what you're saying, you don't want to run hardy. [15:18] Pici: it seems it quite safe! [15:18] I want. [15:18] but I want for it to work [15:19] BUGabundo: Then you really dont want to run Hardy. [15:19] Hobbsee: if everythings aint working, there is no use for it [15:19] well, if he upgrades, or keeps his partial upgrade, then he himself can fix it - or learn why it's a bad idea. *shrug* [15:20] BUGabundo: The whole point of these pre-releases is to fix the things that arent working, so you will come across a lot of breakage. [15:20] I'll be doing and update-manager when I see that no vital packages are removed [15:20] I expecte breakage [15:20] I'm fine with that [15:20] but at least I'll have to have a bootble and networkalbe pc [15:21] lol [15:21] when I jumped to feisty herd 2, I had to boot from the livecd, just to go to the net [15:21] lol [15:21] this depends on your network, how good you are at fixing network manager, or doing it by hand if nm blows up. [15:21] with hardy, I've found that bug-buggy gives me probs [15:22] maybe I should report it on LP [15:22] of course, your system should boot, most of the time. i think the record number of separate times that someone had to chroot into their system and update it, as it wouldn't reboot, was 5. [15:22] fairly sure it 's already reported. [15:22] Hobbsee: I have no trouble setting up a manual connection, even for WiFi [15:22] good [15:22] as long as you don't file crap bugs, you'll be fine. [15:23] let me check LP for that bug [15:23] on another topic [15:23] I see to much use of HD [15:23] does nay one see that too? [15:23] no [15:24] not sure if it is kmail and bogofilter filtering emails! [15:24] I only see this, when I'm online [15:25] is top showing anything of interest as to what the process using cpu is? [15:27] Hobbsee: I can't see any process using to much CPU [15:27] not on top, nor atop [15:27] but lots of disk I/O and page file on atop [15:27] debug it, find out what it is, then come back [15:29] how can I debug it Hobbsee? [15:29] I can post a screenshot, if you like! [15:30] on atop I see stuff like 105% disk use [15:30] i don't know, but i'd suggest google would help you [15:36] hobe take a look if you want [15:36] http://fileland.bugabundo.net/Linux/top.png [15:36] http://fileland.bugabundo.net/Linux/atop2.png === burner_ is now known as burner [15:39] one more question ppl [15:39] is it proper to [15:39] awake and old bug? [15:40] #63456 seems to fit my prob with bug-buddy [15:40] but its from 2006 [15:42] bug 63456 [15:42] Launchpad bug 63456 in nautilus-cd-burner "Bug-buddy keeps reporting a crash and nautilus does not work (dup-of: 62739)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63456 [15:42] Launchpad bug 62739 in liboobs "[shares-admin] nautilus crashed when i logon gnome in edgy" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62739 [15:42] bug 173071 [15:42] Launchpad bug 173071 in bug-buddy "[hardy] bug-buddy keeps reporting errors" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173071 [15:43] what do you think Pici? [15:43] ...then tell it to ignore the crash [15:43] BUGabundo: What app does it say is crashing? [15:43] it's saved all the crashes from when you installed, up till the last bug-buddy upgrade, where apport got turned on. [15:44] I can't hib [15:44] * Hobbsee is not hib [15:44] * Hobbsee would also close it as WORKSFORME [15:44] aww, why not? [15:44] pici as far as I could teel from the bug-buddy log, it was gnome-applet Deskbar [15:44] BUGabundo: Thats because deskbar was crashing [15:44] some time ago, probaly [15:44] but since I removed bug-buddy, all my desktop is working fine [15:45] * Hobbsee shakes her head. [15:45] I had the same issue when I upgraded. I reported the bug, then killed deskbar manually, bug buddy stopped coming up [15:45] sorry Hobbsee [15:46] I can't see what I'm writing, since I'm with a lot of I/O and all my desktop freezes! [15:46] I type stuff and wait for it to appear [15:46] close kmail then [15:46] see if it's that [15:46] ok [15:46] kmail closed [15:47] does it help? [15:47] DSK | sda | busy 62% | read 278215 | write 583465 | avio 8 ms | === jussi is now known as jussi01 [15:47] I/O is down a bit [15:47] from 90% to 62% [15:47] still doing an apt-get on another tty [15:48] well, that's going to have an effect, yes.... [15:48] but I still lose control of my desktop [15:48] just now, pidgin when blank [15:48] how much ram do you have? [15:49] and firefox-3.0 won't close [15:49] it stays in background at 100% cpu [15:49] I've reported it, but no one took the bug [15:49] 1GiB Hobbsee [15:49] probably because they couldn't reproduce it [15:49] also, it's a beta. [15:49] laptop: PM 1.7 60GiB pata [15:50] 2.5 years old! [15:50] 15GiBs HD free [15:50] either it's the OS (or some apps) or my disk is dying [15:50] BUGabundo: you have to realise - people can't just look at your bugs and see the problem, for the most part. they have to actually try to reproduce it, so they can debug it. [15:50] I know! there are so many! [15:50] BUGabundo: and you have to debug it far enough in the first place to actually make it worht their time. [15:50] I see them coming on the mails.... even I get scared! [15:51] BUGabundo: could be the bios impliementation or the way the motherboard is designed - there is tons of stuff it could be [15:51] maybe h3sp4wn [15:51] but as been working fine since 6.10 [15:51] gusty when smooth [15:51] BUGabundo: i.e the dodgy hacks usually get put in later on [15:51] BUGabundo: I know you dont want to hear this, but if you dont want to deal with this many bugs, you should not be running an alpha [15:51] just until I started moving into hardy [15:51] I know all about alphas or even pre-alphas [15:52] My thinkpad is a p-m 1.7 and works flawless at this moment [15:52] BUGabundo: Then you know the futility of complaing about bugs at this stage. [15:52] but if no one tries then how will stuff move along!? [15:52] BUGabundo: it doesn't help when clueless people try [15:52] ehehe, ok Hobbsee [15:52] that's a low blow!! ehehe [15:53] I'm not complaing, ok? [15:53] you have to actual provide *useful* stuff when testing, or you'll just get ignored. [15:53] I'm trying to see if this are bugs, or just my install [15:53] you're not doing anything overly useful either [15:53] before I report them on LP [15:53] so, debug it, find otu [15:53] "out" ? [15:53] "otu" ? [15:53] out. [15:54] out [15:54] ahh [15:54] ok [15:55] so, from the few that have tried it, is it minimal safe to do and dist-upgrade? [15:55] I'm just fine with my current status, with just and apt-get upgrade to hardy [15:56] That would mess stuff up you need to full-upgrade between releases [15:56] (I usually take the aptitude from the later branch and its dep's install that and then use that to do the upgrade) [15:57] BUGabundo: if you're not running the latest code, you can't effectively be reporting bugs [15:57] however, you want to stay away from really buggy stuff [15:57] it scares me a bit seeing 64 packages being removed [15:58] I'll upgrade with update-manager and see how it goes [15:59] it'll probably bail [15:59] no mater [15:59] then you'll just fix it manually [15:59] as long as my data is safe. [15:59] I 'll just reinstall on one of my hands-on sessions of ubuntu [16:00] its a good chance to show students how it is done [16:00] ...your data isn't sfe [16:00] it may eat parts of your data [16:00] it aint? lol [16:00] hope not [16:00] BUGabundo: When I upgraded, I had to go through a few iterations of aptitude suggestions before I felt comfortable with a solution that wouldn't entirely break my system. [16:00] my last back is one month old [16:00] aptitude just did what I wanted without much proding [16:00] BUGabundo: then you're an idiot, if you're seriously considering upgrading to hardy at this point. [16:00] just used the curses ui [16:01] but hey, lose your data. you'll learn the next time you try [16:01] I know! === burner__ is now known as burner [16:01] idiots learn the hard way [16:01] lol [16:01] * Hobbsee has only managed to lose all of her rss feeds, so far, due to an upgrade. [16:01] don't you worry Hobbsee [16:01] most of my data is safe [16:01] 16:00 < BUGabundo> its a good chance to show students how it is done (that is worrying) [16:01] no idea what happened - i just saw it vanished. [16:02] really strange [16:02] so far, everything when fine [16:02] other then the X break and bugbuddy [16:02] h3sp4wn: if he wants to be an idiot, let him. and don't help him when it breaks, do other, more useful stuff. [16:02] h3sp4wn: I meant the install process [16:03] there aint enough free PCs for everyone [16:03] you can check our topics here [16:04] http://docs.google.com/View.aspx?docid=afwwtkhg6gn_aj8z6fsv5kx [16:04] oh another question (from the idiot): [16:04] how come apt-cacher won't mirro hardy reps? [16:05] I can only make it work with gutsy, and previous! [16:05] *mirror [16:06] BUGabundo: Surely if you are teaching students to do this there is someone in your organisation who can help you [16:07] there aint many! [16:07] we were able to get almost everyting ready for this weekend and the next [16:08] BUGabundo: high school or university ? [16:08] and the "bosses" canceled the events [16:08] Universaty [16:08] Computer Science Eng. [16:08] www.dei.isep.ipp.pt check it out! [16:09] our mailinglist www.dei.isep.ipp.pt/LinuxNoDEI [16:11] back to class [16:11] see you in a bit === ant30_ is now known as ant30 [18:20] * ccooke wonders how broken Hardy is ATM [18:21] saw a little review at a web site yeasterday. [18:22] http://www.ubuntuhq.com/content/ubuntu-8.04-lts-alpha%3A-first-look [18:23] Aside from these package updates and a few other changes, there isn't too much to get excited about with Ubuntu 8.04 "Hardy Heron" Alpha 1. However, with quite a few interesting features on the Hardy Heron Roadmap, it will certainly be an interesting next few months. [18:33] Since when was the alpha actually released ? === pwnguin_ is now known as pwnguin === HM2 is now known as HM2K [20:17] Hello. Is the Hardy Alpha 1 released yet? [20:23] Can anyone point me to a reference where developers are talking about Ubuntu's stance on the "forced usability" of Gnome? Like, how do the defaults get chosen (spatial vs. browser, for example). [20:25] Same way anything gets choosen. [20:26] General agreement or sabdfl. [20:27] sabdfl? Stolen authority by deranged, foolhardy layperson? [20:27] so if I want to discuss something like using xscreensaver over gnome-screensaver as a default, where does that take place? [20:28] Is the Hardy's first alpha released yet? [20:31] No [20:32] Tuplanolla: Doesn't look much different to me (other than as per usual it seems to work slightly faster) dunno whether that is just because loads of stuff I don't use is broken or what [20:44] Why do I get this green AMD overlay on my desktop after Hardy upgrade? [20:44] "Testing use only. Unsupported Hardware" [20:44] on IBM ThinkPad laptop T52 [20:45] R52 [20:46] hrmm, oh they mean ATI!!! [20:48] heya [20:48] err.. is compiz working better with gnome/ubuntu than it is with kde ? [20:49] Assid: probably === Skiessl is now known as Skiessi