| Danny | hey | 01:52 |
|---|---|---|
| andreasn | artwork meeting in 2,5 hours, right? | 16:23 |
| kwwii | andreasn: right | 16:29 |
| andreasn | great, always tricky with UTC time-things, even though I noticed there was a link on the wiki page :) | 16:31 |
| kwwii | yeah, you never feel quite safe, eh? | 16:32 |
| andreasn | exactly :) | 16:36 |
| thorwil | kwwii: regarding tricky utc, wasn't it 3.5 hours from the point of asking? | 16:50 |
| thorwil | andreasn: today i learned of a nice command you can use in #ubuntu-meeting:" @schedule city-in-your-time-zone" | 16:52 |
| andreasn | thorwil: oh, sweet | 16:53 |
| kwwii | thorwil: it is 3.8 where I am at but probably 3.5 in your country :p | 17:18 |
| * _MMA_ thinks everyone should just have 2 clocks in their panel with one set to UTC and be done with it. | 17:19 | |
| kwwii | officially, as of now, it is in 1:40min | 17:19 |
| _MMA_ | Yep | 17:20 |
| thorwil | kwwii: heh, and here i thought it would be the same 'distance' for everyone | 17:20 |
| kwwii | well, for some it is in their head and for others in it only in a webpage | 17:21 |
| kwwii | so unless your head is *really* close to your monitor.... | 17:21 |
| _MMA_ | kwwii: I think Mark should really be in this meeting. Even if you still have that meeting in a couple of days. So at least he could then hear _some_ of the ideas from the people who bother to show. | 17:21 |
| thorwil | if that intlclock applet thing has some kind of utc mark / support? | 17:21 |
| kwwii | _MMA_: I think he should be in the next one ;-) | 17:22 |
| _MMA_ | thorwil: Other it actually has no UTS support atm. :( | 17:22 |
| _MMA_ | gah | 17:22 |
| _MMA_ | Strike out that "Other" | 17:22 |
| thorwil | got it even with | 17:23 |
| thorwil | :) | 17:23 |
| thorwil | _MMA_: if that was my mark, i wouldn't want to expose him to the unfiltered noise ;) | 17:23 |
| _MMA_ | jacstro said it will be merged with the current clock for GNOME 2.22. | 17:24 |
| andreasn | _MMA_:_ time-zone thingy in gnome 2.22 will probably take care of that | 17:24 |
| _MMA_ | thorwil: Naa.. Its gonna be a ghost town in there. All the normal heads. Wont be alot of noise. | 17:24 |
| andreasn | ah, yes, intclock, that's the name | 17:25 |
| thorwil | _MMA_: hmm ... right, it isn't the mailing list :) | 17:25 |
| troy_s | thorwil: He used to read the mailing list. That said, he is far too busy these days to be involved with much of anything. | 17:29 |
| deezid_ | hi | 18:04 |
| deezid_ | am I too late? | 18:04 |
| deezid_ | what happened here before? :D | 18:05 |
| deezid_ | art.ubuntu.com seems to be down, did anything happen at this meeting? | 18:07 |
| * troy_s falls over with a thud. | 18:07 | |
| derQ | iirc it's 19utc so one hour to go | 18:08 |
| deezid_ | I thought it's already UTC+1 (MEZ)? | 18:10 |
| thorwil | i'll be gone, hunting food. but in the meantime, you might enjoy: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2007/12/01/ubuntu-login-screen/ | 18:11 |
| deezid_ | I like the idea of these thumbnails | 18:14 |
| deezid_ | but it's too dark and brownish on my eyes | 18:15 |
| deezid_ | ah ok, read it | 18:15 |
| deezid_ | And one thing I would like to change, is to remove the top bar in ubuntu :) | 18:17 |
| deezid_ | Since widescreen lcds are becoming much more popular, we should use another solution | 18:18 |
| deezid_ | maybe something like gnome-main-menu, vertical bars, etc... | 18:19 |
| deezid_ | so I don't think we should introduce a top par in gdm | 18:20 |
| deezid_ | have you seen Fedora 8s' GDM. looks great I think | 18:20 |
| troy_s | looks like shite. | 18:21 |
| troy_s | fedora 8 is the worst case of regression that i have seen in many many many years. | 18:21 |
| deezid_ | mhh | 18:22 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Diana did some _amazing_ work with Fedora up to and including 7. Since her departure, Fedora has demonstrated the complete inability to draw a reasonable progression out of her legacy. | 18:23 |
| deezid_ | do you have a link to her work? I have not seen it yet... | 18:23 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Fedora 5/6/7 | 18:25 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Let me find the 7 work | 18:25 |
| deezid_ | ah ok | 18:25 |
| deezid_ | http://people.redhat.com/dfong/fc7graphics/ ? | 18:25 |
| troy_s | weird her blog appears to have gone. | 18:26 |
| troy_s | yes | 18:26 |
| troy_s | but her blog had a better evolutionary display of the work | 18:27 |
| troy_s | her progression with Fedora was nothing short of remarkable, and I imagine she was met with the same degree of resistance from 'those that know better' | 18:27 |
| troy_s | that said, the management at Fedora should have shut up and given her the keys to the car to see what she would have done with it. | 18:28 |
| troy_s | as a simple test, look what happens when you yank out any degree of motif / communication and wrap it up with dull monotonous presentation -- side by side F7 with F8 | 18:29 |
| troy_s | deezid_: http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=60 | 18:30 |
| deezid_ | much more colorful compared to F8. F8 looks boring compared to F7 | 18:34 |
| deezid_ | mhh | 18:34 |
| troy_s | deezid_: ;) | 18:35 |
| troy_s | deezid_: The power of a little colour contrast | 18:35 |
| deezid_ | ubuntu needs more contrast, too | 18:35 |
| troy_s | deezid_: You can see how, coupled with the overarching motif (the balloon) and the general communication (lofty / airy / floaty) an actual palette of color goes a _long_ way. | 18:35 |
| deezid_ | I like the idea of orange and black combined | 18:36 |
| deezid_ | hope that it won't get too dark | 18:36 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Completely 100% agree, and it has been noted. Unfortunately, I stated that god knows how long ago and kwwii is still fighting to try and get some degree of contrast. | 18:36 |
| deezid_ | won't become too dark... :D | 18:36 |
| troy_s | deezid_: The main thing is to try and get a complimentary colour into a desktop. | 18:36 |
| troy_s | deezid_: If you compare monochromatic palettes (usually color x on black or color x on white) you can see a greater impression made with color x / compliment as the compliment will highlight color x's intensity / feel. | 18:37 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Given the context of a full blown desktop look, we can see the impact of monotony by looking at the Ubuntu walls of the past -- they are hideous. | 18:38 |
| deezid_ | yes they are | 18:39 |
| deezid_ | we need something new :) | 18:39 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Compare with say, F7's work and you get the twofold bang out of having a real concept that instills emotion coupled with a rather impressive display of tone through the color variations. | 18:39 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Not just new. | 18:39 |
| troy_s | deezid_: New doing the same garbage and idiotic mistakes over and over again is worthless. | 18:39 |
| deezid_ | vista already has it :D | 18:39 |
| deezid_ | lol | 18:39 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Vista does their own thing. That said Vista's default wallpaper (as does Leopard's) do the 'right thing' | 18:40 |
| deezid_ | true | 18:40 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Vista's garbage plasticy packaging and hideously dated glossy bits are ... yikes. | 18:40 |
| deezid_ | even Apple seems to copy it... | 18:40 |
| troy_s | deezid_: No. Apple's design for Leopard is quite clever. | 18:40 |
| deezid_ | it looks a bit spacy | 18:41 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Their entire presentation is schemed around their 'killer feature' (*sigh* backup) | 18:41 |
| deezid_ | i think | 18:41 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Of course | 18:41 |
| deezid_ | hehe | 18:41 |
| troy_s | deezid_: It is space with godrays to sell the time machine | 18:41 |
| deezid_ | nice | 18:41 |
| deezid_ | :D | 18:41 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Their audio in the visual presentation also uses the motif -- backmasked music etc | 18:41 |
| troy_s | deezid_: The entire 'space / time machine' motif extends through all of their release packaging. | 18:41 |
| deezid_ | so we need a new motif? | 18:42 |
| deezid_ | no | 18:42 |
| troy_s | deezid_: What do we need? I would probably start with 1) A motif for the release (which is a big ball of communication goal wrapped in there) 2) A non monochromatic palette 3) Visual styling that sells 1 | 18:43 |
| deezid_ | the ubuntu 'human' motif seems to be a limit..?! | 18:43 |
| deezid_ | ah | 18:43 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Not at all. It has _never_ been human. | 18:43 |
| deezid_ | true (mostly brown) | 18:44 |
| troy_s | deezid_: It has been a bland 'we don't want to make a statement' since the dawn of Ubuntu (with Warty and Hoary actually having signs of life) | 18:44 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Ignore the colour. | 18:44 |
| deezid_ | a new color palette would be good start of course | 18:44 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Colour is just an extension of thematic. In a vacuum, all colours are awful. | 18:44 |
| deezid_ | that's true | 18:45 |
| troy_s | deezid_: New palette is worthless without the other elements. They mean nothing. | 18:45 |
| deezid_ | we need a new gtk-theme, metacity, gdm, built on a new wider motif? right? | 18:46 |
| troy_s | deezid_: In the end, getting management to be willing to make a statement is about 50% of the task at hand. The other 50% is preparing for failure. Hell -- Windows and Apple still make mistakes. Ubuntu art and design will too. | 18:46 |
| deezid_ | (sry for my bad english) | 18:46 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Huge task. It is what kwwii is working towards I believe. It is a massive task to achieve that. Possible, but quite large. | 18:46 |
| deezid_ | but it should be done at least | 18:47 |
| deezid_ | ubuntu looks quite boring in these times :( | 18:47 |
| deezid_ | its nice to work with of course... ;) | 18:47 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Boring is relative. It certainly leaves a lot to be desired to be welcome in many people's living rooms. | 18:47 |
| deezid_ | so blue is simply outdated :D | 18:48 |
| deezid_ | as the main color | 18:48 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Well... overly used and the reasoning completely flawed. | 18:49 |
| deezid_ | true | 18:49 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Although _that_ was said god knows how many times before. Only now that the big boys move away from it | 18:49 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Is that our little culture seems to agree. | 18:49 |
| troy_s | deezid_: We had a few vocal types who tried to keep away from blue. | 18:49 |
| troy_s | deezid_: For good reason. | 18:49 |
| deezid_ | good to know | 18:49 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Blue is as bad as getting rid of brown. Brown is just soooooo pathetically used in Ubuntu with a single tone that it is awful. | 18:50 |
| deezid_ | RIGHT!!! | 18:50 |
| deezid_ | it's to much | 18:50 |
| troy_s | deezid_: But the colour itself is soooo extremely fresh for design. It gets slammed because of the useless application of it. | 18:50 |
| deezid_ | (did I understand you?) | 18:50 |
| deezid_ | right | 18:51 |
| troy_s | deezid_: I am a huge +1 for brown, but not as it is used now. | 18:51 |
| deezid_ | I love brown | 18:51 |
| deezid_ | as I'm already using it in my living room | 18:51 |
| deezid_ | ;) | 18:51 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Many people do | 18:51 |
| deezid_ | yeah | 18:51 |
| deezid_ | at least here | 18:51 |
| deezid_ | ^^ | 18:51 |
| thorwil | plop | 18:52 |
| deezid_ | hi | 18:52 |
| lapo_ | hi | 18:53 |
| thorwil | troy_s: i agree. especially on getting a complementary colour in | 18:53 |
| deezid_ | brown<>blue? | 18:53 |
| thorwil | no | 18:53 |
| deezid_ | ok | 18:53 |
| thorwil | deezid_: eh, read that wrong | 18:54 |
| thorwil | deezid_: but colour names just don't do it, anyway ;) | 18:54 |
| deezid_ | hehe | 18:54 |
| troy_s | deezid_: Yep | 18:54 |
| troy_s | deezid_: A very popular tone compliment with brown (and it is huge right now) is the lighter blue. | 18:54 |
| troy_s | deezid_: But a full desktop needs quite a degree of variety | 18:55 |
| deezid_ | that works great | 18:55 |
| troy_s | deezid_: As it is a huge element and needs as much detail to sell a pattern. | 18:55 |
| deezid_ | ok | 18:55 |
| === lapo_ is now known as lapo | ||
| troy_s | deezid_: brown / blue works well and is pretty simple compliment theory. | 18:55 |
| troy_s | deezid_: The other option is to use a triplet triangle. | 18:55 |
| deezid_ | do you mean 3 main colours? | 18:56 |
| kwwii | *meeting in 5 min in #ubuntu-meeting* | 18:56 |
| deezid_ | a bright blue could look refreshing combined with brown | 18:57 |
| deezid_ | orange works also works great with a bright blue | 18:57 |
| troy_s | deezid_: orange / brown are more or less sitting in the same neighborhood -- so blue (differing values) works with both -- a simple compliment. | 18:59 |
| thorwil | kwwii: may i remind you of turning that logging facility on, this time? :) | 18:59 |
| kwwii | thorwil: yeah | 19:00 |
| kwwii | meeting now, be there or be square | 19:00 |
| === fgsfds is now known as zazaza123 | ||
| zazaza123 | did i just miss the team meeting? | 20:07 |
| zazaza123 | i know that my time is off utc by 1hr, not sure which way | 20:07 |
| andreasn | zazaza123: we're in the middle of it, #ubuntu-meeting | 20:07 |
| zazaza123 | thanks | 20:08 |
| === `23meg is now known as mgunes | ||
| deezid_ | example? :D | 20:23 |
| thorwil | nothlit: yaya. i'm not a fan of gloss all over the place. i'm just surprised to have backlit glass combined with low gloss as concept | 20:25 |
| deezid_ | what is backlit glass? | 20:26 |
| deezid_ | (pretty bad english here) :D | 20:26 |
| thorwil | deezid_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HardyDesign, below Concepts | 20:27 |
| deezid_ | thx | 20:27 |
| thorwil | deezid_: well, it actually says glass being lit from below | 20:27 |
| kwwii | hrm, something like this perhaps.... http://sinecera.de/theme_idea3a.png | 20:28 |
| kwwii | or http://sinecera.de/apps_0.3.png | 20:28 |
| deezid_ | ah ok | 20:28 |
| troy_s | and by 'gloss' we are talking that bloody nasty curved white gradient (which is a dimestore variant of the more well executed and complex versions with more than a simple grad) | 20:29 |
| deezid_ | bablefished it :) | 20:29 |
| troy_s | wet floors and gloss... yikes. | 20:29 |
| thorwil | i'm speechless | 20:31 |
| kwwii | ? | 20:31 |
| thorwil | lets just say that http://sinecera.de/apps_0.3.png is very harsh. i wouldn't stand that 1 minute on my desktop | 20:36 |
| kwwii | lol, it is just a mockup | 20:37 |
| luisbg | thorwil, depends on how much you use your icons | 20:38 |
| luisbg | in ubuntu studio we are getting rid of desktop icons | 20:38 |
| nothlit | the actual ubuntu mobile is significantly different? | 20:38 |
| thorwil | luisbg: it offers way more contrast than my eyes like. but heck, i rarely see much of my desktop, having a few large windows on every workspace :) | 20:40 |
| luisbg | it's mobile... | 20:40 |
| luisbg | use case = looked at with shitty screens in pure daylight | 20:40 |
| luisbg | contrast _is_ needed | 20:40 |
| thorwil | oh, i was taking it as example for a possible direction for hardy | 20:41 |
| luisbg | thorwil, ok | 20:42 |
| thorwil | these eyes are tired, good night! :) | 20:43 |
| luisbg | night | 20:43 |
| deezid_ | have to go out, too | 20:44 |
| deezid_ | bye | 20:44 |
| hon | is the meeting over? | 21:14 |
| kwwii | yes | 21:15 |
| kwwii | 1 1/4 hour ago | 21:15 |
| * hon should remember the time for next meeting ... | 21:18 | |
| hon | Do you keep logs? | 21:18 |
| kwwii | http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/12/01/%23ubuntu-artwork.html | 21:18 |
| hon | thanks | 21:18 |
| kwwii | np | 21:18 |
| troy_s | did i miss anything exciting? | 21:46 |
| troy_s | lol | 21:46 |
| kwwii | we decided to make the interface pink and teal | 22:52 |
| === kwwii changed the topic of #ubuntu-artwork to: pink and teal it is!!!1 | ||
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