[01:52] hey [16:23] artwork meeting in 2,5 hours, right? [16:29] andreasn: right [16:31] great, always tricky with UTC time-things, even though I noticed there was a link on the wiki page :) [16:32] yeah, you never feel quite safe, eh? [16:36] exactly :) [16:50] kwwii: regarding tricky utc, wasn't it 3.5 hours from the point of asking? [16:52] andreasn: today i learned of a nice command you can use in #ubuntu-meeting:" @schedule city-in-your-time-zone" [16:53] thorwil: oh, sweet [17:18] thorwil: it is 3.8 where I am at but probably 3.5 in your country :p [17:19] * _MMA_ thinks everyone should just have 2 clocks in their panel with one set to UTC and be done with it. [17:19] officially, as of now, it is in 1:40min [17:20] <_MMA_> Yep [17:20] kwwii: heh, and here i thought it would be the same 'distance' for everyone [17:21] well, for some it is in their head and for others in it only in a webpage [17:21] so unless your head is *really* close to your monitor.... [17:21] <_MMA_> kwwii: I think Mark should really be in this meeting. Even if you still have that meeting in a couple of days. So at least he could then hear _some_ of the ideas from the people who bother to show. [17:21] if that intlclock applet thing has some kind of utc mark / support? [17:22] _MMA_: I think he should be in the next one ;-) [17:22] <_MMA_> thorwil: Other it actually has no UTS support atm. :( [17:22] <_MMA_> gah [17:22] <_MMA_> Strike out that "Other" [17:23] got it even with [17:23] :) [17:23] _MMA_: if that was my mark, i wouldn't want to expose him to the unfiltered noise ;) [17:24] <_MMA_> jacstro said it will be merged with the current clock for GNOME 2.22. [17:24] _MMA_:_ time-zone thingy in gnome 2.22 will probably take care of that [17:24] <_MMA_> thorwil: Naa.. Its gonna be a ghost town in there. All the normal heads. Wont be alot of noise. [17:25] ah, yes, intclock, that's the name [17:25] _MMA_: hmm ... right, it isn't the mailing list :) [17:29] thorwil: He used to read the mailing list. That said, he is far too busy these days to be involved with much of anything. [18:04] hi [18:04] am I too late? [18:05] what happened here before? :D [18:07] art.ubuntu.com seems to be down, did anything happen at this meeting? [18:07] * troy_s falls over with a thud. [18:08] iirc it's 19utc so one hour to go [18:10] I thought it's already UTC+1 (MEZ)? [18:11] i'll be gone, hunting food. but in the meantime, you might enjoy: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2007/12/01/ubuntu-login-screen/ [18:14] I like the idea of these thumbnails [18:15] but it's too dark and brownish on my eyes [18:15] ah ok, read it [18:17] And one thing I would like to change, is to remove the top bar in ubuntu :) [18:18] Since widescreen lcds are becoming much more popular, we should use another solution [18:19] maybe something like gnome-main-menu, vertical bars, etc... [18:20] so I don't think we should introduce a top par in gdm [18:20] have you seen Fedora 8s' GDM. looks great I think [18:21] looks like shite. [18:21] fedora 8 is the worst case of regression that i have seen in many many many years. [18:22] mhh [18:23] deezid_: Diana did some _amazing_ work with Fedora up to and including 7. Since her departure, Fedora has demonstrated the complete inability to draw a reasonable progression out of her legacy. [18:23] do you have a link to her work? I have not seen it yet... [18:25] deezid_: Fedora 5/6/7 [18:25] deezid_: Let me find the 7 work [18:25] ah ok [18:25] http://people.redhat.com/dfong/fc7graphics/ ? [18:26] weird her blog appears to have gone. [18:26] yes [18:27] but her blog had a better evolutionary display of the work [18:27] her progression with Fedora was nothing short of remarkable, and I imagine she was met with the same degree of resistance from 'those that know better' [18:28] that said, the management at Fedora should have shut up and given her the keys to the car to see what she would have done with it. [18:29] as a simple test, look what happens when you yank out any degree of motif / communication and wrap it up with dull monotonous presentation -- side by side F7 with F8 [18:30] deezid_: http://www.isity.net/blog/?p=60 [18:34] much more colorful compared to F8. F8 looks boring compared to F7 [18:34] mhh [18:35] deezid_: ;) [18:35] deezid_: The power of a little colour contrast [18:35] ubuntu needs more contrast, too [18:35] deezid_: You can see how, coupled with the overarching motif (the balloon) and the general communication (lofty / airy / floaty) an actual palette of color goes a _long_ way. [18:36] I like the idea of orange and black combined [18:36] hope that it won't get too dark [18:36] deezid_: Completely 100% agree, and it has been noted. Unfortunately, I stated that god knows how long ago and kwwii is still fighting to try and get some degree of contrast. [18:36] won't become too dark... :D [18:36] deezid_: The main thing is to try and get a complimentary colour into a desktop. [18:37] deezid_: If you compare monochromatic palettes (usually color x on black or color x on white) you can see a greater impression made with color x / compliment as the compliment will highlight color x's intensity / feel. [18:38] deezid_: Given the context of a full blown desktop look, we can see the impact of monotony by looking at the Ubuntu walls of the past -- they are hideous. [18:39] yes they are [18:39] we need something new :) [18:39] deezid_: Compare with say, F7's work and you get the twofold bang out of having a real concept that instills emotion coupled with a rather impressive display of tone through the color variations. [18:39] deezid_: Not just new. [18:39] deezid_: New doing the same garbage and idiotic mistakes over and over again is worthless. [18:39] vista already has it :D [18:39] lol [18:40] deezid_: Vista does their own thing. That said Vista's default wallpaper (as does Leopard's) do the 'right thing' [18:40] true [18:40] deezid_: Vista's garbage plasticy packaging and hideously dated glossy bits are ... yikes. [18:40] even Apple seems to copy it... [18:40] deezid_: No. Apple's design for Leopard is quite clever. [18:41] it looks a bit spacy [18:41] deezid_: Their entire presentation is schemed around their 'killer feature' (*sigh* backup) [18:41] i think [18:41] deezid_: Of course [18:41] hehe [18:41] deezid_: It is space with godrays to sell the time machine [18:41] nice [18:41] :D [18:41] deezid_: Their audio in the visual presentation also uses the motif -- backmasked music etc [18:41] deezid_: The entire 'space / time machine' motif extends through all of their release packaging. [18:42] so we need a new motif? [18:42] no [18:43] deezid_: What do we need? I would probably start with 1) A motif for the release (which is a big ball of communication goal wrapped in there) 2) A non monochromatic palette 3) Visual styling that sells 1 [18:43] the ubuntu 'human' motif seems to be a limit..?! [18:43] ah [18:43] deezid_: Not at all. It has _never_ been human. [18:44] true (mostly brown) [18:44] deezid_: It has been a bland 'we don't want to make a statement' since the dawn of Ubuntu (with Warty and Hoary actually having signs of life) [18:44] deezid_: Ignore the colour. [18:44] a new color palette would be good start of course [18:44] deezid_: Colour is just an extension of thematic. In a vacuum, all colours are awful. [18:45] that's true [18:45] deezid_: New palette is worthless without the other elements. They mean nothing. [18:46] we need a new gtk-theme, metacity, gdm, built on a new wider motif? right? [18:46] deezid_: In the end, getting management to be willing to make a statement is about 50% of the task at hand. The other 50% is preparing for failure. Hell -- Windows and Apple still make mistakes. Ubuntu art and design will too. [18:46] (sry for my bad english) [18:46] deezid_: Huge task. It is what kwwii is working towards I believe. It is a massive task to achieve that. Possible, but quite large. [18:47] but it should be done at least [18:47] ubuntu looks quite boring in these times :( [18:47] its nice to work with of course... ;) [18:47] deezid_: Boring is relative. It certainly leaves a lot to be desired to be welcome in many people's living rooms. [18:48] so blue is simply outdated :D [18:48] as the main color [18:49] deezid_: Well... overly used and the reasoning completely flawed. [18:49] true [18:49] deezid_: Although _that_ was said god knows how many times before. Only now that the big boys move away from it [18:49] deezid_: Is that our little culture seems to agree. [18:49] deezid_: We had a few vocal types who tried to keep away from blue. [18:49] deezid_: For good reason. [18:49] good to know [18:50] deezid_: Blue is as bad as getting rid of brown. Brown is just soooooo pathetically used in Ubuntu with a single tone that it is awful. [18:50] RIGHT!!! [18:50] it's to much [18:50] deezid_: But the colour itself is soooo extremely fresh for design. It gets slammed because of the useless application of it. [18:50] (did I understand you?) [18:51] right [18:51] deezid_: I am a huge +1 for brown, but not as it is used now. [18:51] I love brown [18:51] as I'm already using it in my living room [18:51] ;) [18:51] deezid_: Many people do [18:51] yeah [18:51] at least here [18:51] ^^ [18:52] plop [18:52] hi [18:53] hi [18:53] troy_s: i agree. especially on getting a complementary colour in [18:53] brown<>blue? [18:53] no [18:53] ok [18:54] deezid_: eh, read that wrong [18:54] deezid_: but colour names just don't do it, anyway ;) [18:54] hehe [18:54] deezid_: Yep [18:54] deezid_: A very popular tone compliment with brown (and it is huge right now) is the lighter blue. [18:55] deezid_: But a full desktop needs quite a degree of variety [18:55] that works great [18:55] deezid_: As it is a huge element and needs as much detail to sell a pattern. [18:55] ok === lapo_ is now known as lapo [18:55] deezid_: brown / blue works well and is pretty simple compliment theory. [18:55] deezid_: The other option is to use a triplet triangle. [18:56] do you mean 3 main colours? [18:56] *meeting in 5 min in #ubuntu-meeting* [18:57] a bright blue could look refreshing combined with brown [18:57] orange works also works great with a bright blue [18:59] deezid_: orange / brown are more or less sitting in the same neighborhood -- so blue (differing values) works with both -- a simple compliment. [18:59] kwwii: may i remind you of turning that logging facility on, this time? :) [19:00] thorwil: yeah [19:00] meeting now, be there or be square === fgsfds is now known as zazaza123 [20:07] did i just miss the team meeting? [20:07] i know that my time is off utc by 1hr, not sure which way [20:07] zazaza123: we're in the middle of it, #ubuntu-meeting [20:08] thanks === `23meg is now known as mgunes [20:23] example? :D [20:25] nothlit: yaya. i'm not a fan of gloss all over the place. i'm just surprised to have backlit glass combined with low gloss as concept [20:26] what is backlit glass? [20:26] (pretty bad english here) :D [20:27] deezid_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HardyDesign, below Concepts [20:27] thx [20:27] deezid_: well, it actually says glass being lit from below [20:28] hrm, something like this perhaps.... http://sinecera.de/theme_idea3a.png [20:28] or http://sinecera.de/apps_0.3.png [20:28] ah ok [20:29] and by 'gloss' we are talking that bloody nasty curved white gradient (which is a dimestore variant of the more well executed and complex versions with more than a simple grad) [20:29] bablefished it :) [20:29] wet floors and gloss... yikes. [20:31] i'm speechless [20:31] ? [20:36] lets just say that http://sinecera.de/apps_0.3.png is very harsh. i wouldn't stand that 1 minute on my desktop [20:37] lol, it is just a mockup [20:38] thorwil, depends on how much you use your icons [20:38] in ubuntu studio we are getting rid of desktop icons [20:38] the actual ubuntu mobile is significantly different? [20:40] luisbg: it offers way more contrast than my eyes like. but heck, i rarely see much of my desktop, having a few large windows on every workspace :) [20:40] it's mobile... [20:40] use case = looked at with shitty screens in pure daylight [20:40] contrast _is_ needed [20:41] oh, i was taking it as example for a possible direction for hardy [20:42] thorwil, ok [20:43] these eyes are tired, good night! :) [20:43] night [20:44] have to go out, too [20:44] bye [21:14] is the meeting over? [21:15] yes [21:15] 1 1/4 hour ago [21:18] * hon should remember the time for next meeting ... [21:18] Do you keep logs? [21:18] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/12/01/%23ubuntu-artwork.html [21:18] thanks [21:18] np [21:46] did i miss anything exciting? [21:46] lol [22:52] we decided to make the interface pink and teal === kwwii changed the topic of #ubuntu-artwork to: pink and teal it is!!!1