[00:37] <crimsun> jcastro: so the loco thingy is in 23 minutes?
[00:37] <jcastro> crimsun: yep!
[00:38] <crimsun> jcastro: okay.
[00:38] <jcastro> crimsun: christer tells me it will be pretty q+a based
[00:38] <jcastro> so I was thinking
[00:38] <jcastro> if people ask about motu stuff we just shuffle them in here
[00:38] <crimsun> jcastro: sure.
[00:46] <nixternal> wasabi!
[00:46] <crimsun> vista?  No!
[00:46] <nixternal> yes, I will do the vista qa
[00:46] <nixternal> packaging for vista 101
[00:46] <nixternal> what chan is this loco thing in?
[00:47] <crimsun> I'm thinking ubuntu-us
[00:47] <nixternal> not in the topic there...heck, I can't even find info on it
[00:56] <keescook> Fujitsu: CVE-2006 -3122 is already fixed afaict.  Did I miss something in it?
[00:57] <keescook> (oh, dapper, edgy.... erk)
[00:57] <keescook> Fujitsu: that was an oversight.
[00:59] <keescook> Fujitsu: CVE- 2007-6131> yeah, seems like to make it vulnerable, it'd have to be edited manually anyway.
[00:59] <Fujitsu> keescook: Yep, missed a single character..
[00:59] <Fujitsu> Right.
[01:00] <Fujitsu> keescook: Is there anything that needs to be done with rejects other than removing them and adding them to not-for-us?
[01:03] <keescook> Fujitsu: if there are no notes, etc, just bzr rm and add to not-for-us
[01:04] <Fujitsu> keescook: Otherwise throw it in ignored/?
[01:04] <keescook> Fujitsu: if there are notes, just mark everything not-affected, replace the description with ** REJECT ** and move it to retired
[01:04] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[01:04] <keescook> I'd use retired since it was "processed" in some way, ignored is "kinda open, but actively ignored by us"... not a clear distinction, I guess.
[01:05] <Fujitsu> True.
[01:06] <keescook> and if it's dumb, I'm happy to re-arrange stuff.  It made sense at the time.  ;)
[01:06] <Fujitsu> I think your way makes sense.
[01:09] <Fujitsu> I think it would make sense to remove much of the information from the branch once malone gets an external API, as there is a lot of duplication at the moment. Bug URLs, assignees, release statuses are all in Malone too.
[01:10] <Fujitsu> (me advocating moving stuff to LP? Never thought I'd see the day)
[01:18] <LordKow> bug 134795 if in fact this bug can be confirmed, is it security-vulnerability worthy?
[01:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134795 in gsambad "GSAMBAD switches User and Password match levels" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134795
[01:18] <persia> sistpoty: Yes, it was on purpose: I'm not sure any of those are important enough to fix for a package that is essentially a single text file.
[01:19] <LordKow> does not effect gutsy or hardy but does effect feisty which I believe we will support until oct 08
[01:19] <persia> apachelogger: Please don't advocate the removal or non-inclusion of menu files.  While .desktop files fill the needs for many users, some people still require menu files to work around non-compliant window managers.
[01:21] <keescook> Fujitsu: right, I basically got sick of LP having everything we needed to track, and set up the tracker separately.  Once we know "how" the tracker should work, that should hopefully help guide the LP bits when that rolls around again
[01:21] <Fujitsu> keescook: LP *not* having everything, you mean?
[01:22] <keescook> sorry, yes
[01:22] <keescook> hehe
[01:23] <Fujitsu> LP's CVE abilities are very unfinished.
[01:23] <persia> Fujitsu: keescook: Could I ask about bug #173153?  Specifically, it appears that the code path tries the user preference temp directory, then, if that fails, tries a default temp directory, and then, if that fails, asks the user to enter a new directory on the next run.  I don't understand how the attack works.
[01:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173153 in audacity "[CVE-2007-6061] Denial of service and deletion of an arbitrary directory tree via symlink attack" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173153
[01:23] <Fujitsu> So yes, we'll need to kick them into doing something once we work out what needs to be done.
[01:24] <keescook> persia: reading...
[01:24] <Fujitsu> persia: Hmm, I haven't actually tested it, but the description on the Gentoo bug makes sense to me.
[01:24] <persia> gentoo bug #199751
[01:24] <Fujitsu> The symlink attack only works on quit.
[01:25] <persia> Fujitsu: Right, but audacity opens the directory on start, and closes & removes on quit.  Is this just a race condition on quit?
[01:26] <persia> (it does use 755 strangely, rather than 700, but that's different)
[01:26] <keescook> persia: yeah, without reading code, it seems like a real issue, with races too maybe.
[01:27] <persia> keescook: I am reading code (familiar with the codebase), but don't understand the nature of the problem well enough to fix it.
[01:29] <keescook> persia: okay, one sec, I'll dig in (currently research DDR2 prices...)
[01:30] <persia> e.g.  What should it do?  On start, it tries to create (and open) two directories (primary and fallback), or asks the user.  On quit, it closes the directory, and removes it.  Is the problem a race condition on quit?
[01:30] <persia> (and no rush :) )
[01:31] <persia> s/e.g./i.e/
[01:31]  * Fujitsu just got it to eat a directory tree.
[01:33] <LordKow> bug 134795 needs sponsor
[01:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134795 in gsambad "GSAMBAD switches User and Password match levels" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/134795
[01:34] <nenolod> i don't really like malone
[01:34] <LordKow> it is arguably a minor secure vulnerability too
[01:34] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I see.  Use of rm_dash_rf_execute without pre-checking.  I still don't understand the denial-of-service bit, but I'll try to fix the directory eating bit in the next bit now.
[01:34] <nenolod> LordKow, more of those bloody UI config tools
[01:35] <LordKow> yes, its evil
[01:35] <persia> s/in the next bit//
[01:35] <nenolod> LordKow, the author of that thing claims he knows me. i don't know who he is though :/
[01:35] <Fujitsu> persia: Right, it seems to prompt here on startup if I create /tmp/audacity1.2-william as another user. I then click Yes, create a symlink as another user, and blow away some directories. I can't see the DoS.
[01:35] <LordKow> the author of the app or the report?
[01:35] <nenolod> LordKow, app
[01:35] <nenolod> "GAdminTools project"
[01:36] <LordKow> ah, yea the way the ui is handled is ridiculous. completely depends on the order of the code
[01:36] <LordKow> and its still that way in the most current, 0.1.8
[01:36] <persia> Fujitsu: OK.  I was looking too closely at the DoS, and not closely enough at the dispose of everything problem.  Thanks for pushing me in the right direction.
[01:37] <Fujitsu> persia: The Gentoo bug states that you need to change the owner while audacity is running. If an attacker can do that, you're already stuffed, are you not?
[01:37] <nenolod> LordKow, i think the whole concept of UI admin tools is unsound, sorry.
[01:38] <persia> Fujitsu: Essentially.  If someone else has rights to change ownership on your files, there are other more critical possible vectors.
[01:38] <LordKow> i will respectfully disagree to that :)
[01:38] <LordKow> sometimes admins are in a huge hurry and gui is usually a lot faster than sifting through config files
[01:38] <Fujitsu> persia: Yep.
[01:38] <nenolod> LordKow, UI admin tools cause things like servers getting rooted because their admin is a stupid moron who can't admin his server without a GUI
[01:39] <nenolod> LordKow, moreover, UI admin tools cause things like X running on a server which is inappropriate at best
[01:39] <Fujitsu> So the remaining vulnerability seems to only exist if the user dismisses the initial warning, but that's not much of a warning.
[01:39] <persia> nenolod: I'll agree with that, but please also consider the poor home user.
[01:39] <LordKow> nenolod, you are probably right but its not a reason to remove it from the repos.
[01:39] <nenolod> persia, sure for a home user it is fine
[01:39] <nenolod> LordKow, i'm not proposing removing it from the repos
[01:40] <persia> Fujitsu: No, and I don't think changing the wording is the right way to fix it.  I don't see the value of rm_dash_rf_execute anyway: `rm -r` should really be the right thing to do.
[01:40] <LordKow> ah k, i thought you were trying to go somewhere besides a rant ;-)
[01:40] <nenolod> however, i strongly feel that ubuntu should not become the next Windows 2003
[01:40] <nenolod> ;p
[01:40] <LordKow> i should send this bug upstream to debian since i see they still use 0.4
[01:41] <Fujitsu> persia: How is removing the -f going to do much?
[01:41] <persia> Fujitsu: Doesn't remove files set read only, or belonging to someone else.
[01:41] <Fujitsu> Ah, I didn't know of the ownership bit.
[01:41] <persia> (not that the implementation is with rm anyway)
[01:42] <Fujitsu> You're right, that works.
[01:44] <persia> On the other hand, digging more, it appears that it only calls wxRemoveFile(file); recursively, so the -rf is just poor nomenclature.  Now I'm tempted to look at the start again, but I'm not sure how to 1) create a secure reusable temp directory that 2) can be in a user-specified location to use high-IO-speed media.
[01:44] <nenolod> http://mange.dynalias.org/linux.html
[01:44] <nenolod> however, i would say the attitude of this author of GADMINTOOLS might be a good justification of removing it from the repo
[01:44] <nenolod> on his site he advocates "taking down freenode"
[01:45] <Fujitsu> persia: Can you not use mktemp on any template?
[01:46] <keescook> re-usable temp dirs in a world-writable dir is hard to get right.  :(
[01:46] <Fujitsu> keescook: Mhm.
[01:47] <persia> Fujitsu: mktemp and mkstemp aren't available in a way that still works for Windows :(  I could hack it in, but that might break the WX file handling.
[01:47] <keescook> I think you can open the dir and use fdstat to determine who owns the directory in a safe way
[01:47] <Fujitsu> persia: Oh, true...
[01:47] <keescook> portability, though, ergk
[01:47]  * nenolod plays with the idea of packaging BSD pcc as an alternate compiler
[01:47] <persia> keescook: http://www.wxwidgets.org/manuals/2.6/wx_filefunctions.html#filefunctions are the functions available (unless we want to call this a WX bug)
[01:48] <Fujitsu> persia: Ah, if I o+w the directory, audacity doesn't warn at all. That's what I missed.
[01:49] <Fujitsu> persia: What does it do on Windows? There's no /tmp there...
[01:50] <persia> Fujitsu: OK.  So if someone sets their preferences to point at a symlink that points somewhere to which they can write, the cleanup recurise remove runs without warning.  Do I have that right?
[01:50] <Fujitsu> Or are there still c:\temp dirs in recent versions?
[01:50] <Fujitsu> persia: No preferences required.
[01:50] <persia> Fujitsu: It first tries the path in preferences.  If that fails, it tries the default path.  If that fails, it asks the user to change the preference.
[01:51] <persia> In that case, I think you're hitting the default path.  Perhaps just not try the default path, and force a preference setting?
[01:51] <nenolod> Fujitsu, C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Temporary Files
[01:51] <Fujitsu> persia: If login as another user, create /tmp/audacity1.2-william, chmod o+w it, create a symlink `projectsomething' to /home/william.
[01:51] <Fujitsu> Then wait for them to open Audacity, close it, and watch their ~ die.
[01:52] <Fujitsu> persia: Forcing a preference sounds very anti-Just Works.
[01:52] <crimsun> if portability is the issue, see glib's g_mkstemp
[01:52] <persia> Fujitsu: Right.  There's definitely a problem.  Further forcing a preference sounds wrong.  Perhaps forcing the default to be created afresh?
[01:53] <keescook> the "open" needs checking, I think.  If you know the directory is good with safe perms, then all the other removal stuff is safe.
[01:55] <persia> Grrr..  WX doesn't support file ownership.  Looking at glib.
[01:55] <Fujitsu> keescook: If it's not 755, bail out?
[01:55]  * Fujitsu wonders why wx covers some of the stuff it does.
[01:55] <persia> Fujitsu: Someone was very bored.
[01:56] <keescook> Fujitsu: right, or bail if fdstat owner != self or o+w
[01:57] <Fujitsu> keescook: You don't regard g+w as mildly unsafe?
[01:57] <persia> Hmm..  How about changing the default logic to use wxFileName::CreateTempFileName, and if that succeeds, drop it and put in the directory?  There's a race condition, but it's less bad.
[01:57] <keescook> yeah, should probably check that too... symantics get weird for groups stuff... maybe they DO want to share their audacity temp dir.  (who knows why)
[01:58] <Fujitsu> keescook: Right.
[01:58] <persia> There's no good reason to share an audacity temp dir: it's only currently streaming data there.
[01:58] <keescook> fair enough.  :)
[01:59] <keescook> so, why is it in a static location?  (i.e. why not create a new safe tempdir on each invocation?)
[01:59] <Fujitsu> That's what I was wondering.
[01:59] <Fujitsu> It cleans it too thoroughly on exit anyway.
[01:59] <persia> keescook: That's a good question.  The only static part that is interesting is allowing the user to control the device, and using tmpfs by default.
[02:00] <Fujitsu> persia: What does the tempfile function you mentioned earlier do?\
[02:00] <persia> Right.  Because of the aggressive cleaning, I think it should just complain if the default directory already exists, and refuse.
[02:01] <crimsun> erm, what's the simplest solution here?  Introducing races is a bad thing.
[02:01] <persia> Fujitsu: creates a 600 file iff it can find a brand new location in which to do so.  Looking more carefully, it's not deterministic with regards to device, so it's not a good solution.
[02:01] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[02:02] <persia> crimsun: I think the simplest solution is to just not use the default location unless the directory can be created at startup.
[02:02]  * keescook nods
[02:02] <Fujitsu> persia: The directory isn't deleted on exit
[02:02] <persia> (the preferences definition is the user's own problem)
[02:02] <persia> Fujitsu: I can change that.
[02:02] <keescook> I'd say always create a temp dir
[02:02] <Fujitsu> persia: Not for existing installations (although it is a tmpfs)
[02:03] <persia> keescook: Even if the user specified one in preferences?  Perhaps a default-named tempdir under the user-supplied path?
[02:03] <persia> Fujitsu: Sure.  Users who have previously run audacity since the last reboot have to delete a directory or reboot.  That's what NEWS.Debian is for, no?
[02:03] <keescook> I think the if-not-owned-by-us test is sufficient for the set-in-prefs situation
[02:04] <keescook> honestly, you probably want to bring it up with upstream.
[02:04] <persia> keescook: There isn't a if-not-owned-by-us test that can go upstream.
[02:04]  * persia decides to have breakfast, and comment on the upstream bug rather than fixing it
[02:04] <Fujitsu> persia: Late breakfast.
[02:05] <Fujitsu> keescook: How often do you normally wave your magic uploading wand over things?
[02:05] <persia> Fujitsu: I tried to clear the REVU queue last night, and failed to notice until it was quite late :)
[02:06] <Fujitsu> persia: Ah.
[02:06] <Fujitsu> I do like the new segregation and ordering.
[02:06] <persia> Makes it much easier to find targets for reviews.
[02:06] <Fujitsu> Definitely.
[02:11] <imbrandon> moins all
[02:12] <Fujitsu> Hi imbrandon.
[02:12] <imbrandon> heya
[02:19] <keescook> Fujitsu: I have carved a section out on mondays for it.  Is there stuff waiting right now?
[02:20] <pwnguin> how do i document a program consuming 100 percent cpu?
[02:20] <Fujitsu> keescook: There are a few things, but they can wait. I was just wondering if you did have a certain time for it.
[02:20] <pwnguin> Deluge-torrent is eating up an entire core
[02:21] <pwnguin> but im not sure i can duplicate it =/
[02:21] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: Have you checked what it's doing?
[02:21] <keescook> pwnguin: I'd run     strace -f -s 1024 -p $PID 2>/tmp/whoa.log     then wait a few seconds and ctrl-c it.
[02:21] <Fujitsu> What keescook said.
[02:21] <keescook>  /tmp/whoa.log should show a bit about what it's spending it's time doing, though that may not really answer the question.  :P
[02:22] <pwnguin> hmm
[02:22] <pwnguin> looks like its mostly kernel mode
[02:22] <pwnguin> good idea on the strace then
[02:24] <pwnguin> heh, doesnt respond to control-c
[02:32] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:32] <Fujitsu> bddebianisagod!
[02:32] <bddebian> pfft
[02:32] <bddebian> Hi Fujitsu
[02:35] <Fujitsu> Evening, Hobbsee.
[02:36] <Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu
[02:36] <Hobbsee> i dont think it's evening yet...
[02:36] <Fujitsu> It's getting there.
[02:36]  * persia thinks it depends on where you think you are
[02:37] <TheMuso> Evening? Its barely past lunch time.
[02:37] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[02:37] <pwnguin> keescook: so how do you kill that strace?
[02:37] <keescook> pwnguin: normally ctrl-C just works
[02:37] <keescook> if not, I tend to ctrl-z, kill %1
[02:41] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: that was my thought
[02:42]  * Fujitsu is well known for greeting with completely bogus $TIMEOFDAY, even in real life.
[02:43] <TheMuso> Real life? THis is real life. :p
[02:43] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[02:43]  * Fujitsu has work too, so there is some other real life.
[02:43]  * Fujitsu now vanishes for a couple of hours.
[02:45] <Hobbsee> must be time for breakfast.
[02:46] <DarkMageZ> breakfast @ 1:46pm ?
[02:46] <persia> Good night fujitsu
[02:47] <Hobbsee> yes, and?
[02:47] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: btw, ubuntu-main-sponsors exists
[02:48] <DarkMageZ> why/when did i want to know that ubuntu-main-sponsors exists?
[02:50] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: evan's mail to -devel-discuss.  although i guess you put the debdiff in after that
[02:50] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: either way, when you put in a debdiff, you probably want to subscribe the sponsorship team for that component, so it gets in
[02:50] <persia> Well, -security stuff is a little different, but otherwise...
[02:50] <DarkMageZ> is this in reference to what i did to rhythmbox?
[02:51] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: yeah
[02:51] <DarkMageZ> ah, i c. i'll try and keep that in mind.
[02:55] <DarkMageZ> is there a won't fix status for lp bugs? i can't seem to set it with my limited powers.
[02:55] <slangasek> there is, but yes it requires powers
[02:55] <slangasek> (offhand I couldn't tell you which)
[02:56] <DarkMageZ> could someone kill bug #74125 with won't fix?
[02:56] <Hobbsee> slangasek: being in what was -qa
[02:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 74125 in libvisual-plugins "dfsg removed plugins > libvisual-plugins-multiverse?" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74125
[02:57] <Hobbsee> i think it's -buglords now
[02:58] <TheMuso> lol
[03:01] <TheMuso> Yay. Installed.
[03:01]  * Hobbsee installs automatix on TheMuso's machine, to see if he says the same thing
[03:02] <DarkMageZ> isn't installing automatix on someone elses machine an act of terrorism?
[03:03] <jdong> DarkMageZ: You're pronouncing it wrong: turrsm...
[03:03] <jdong> DarkMageZ: listen to the state of the union address again...
[03:03] <elkbuntu> DarkMageZ, sabotage at very least
[03:03] <jdong> it's an act of war.
[03:04] <elkbuntu> jdong, where does one aquire a bush translator, do you know?
[03:04] <jdong> We need to defeat them at their repository before they come and invade our own repository.
[03:04] <jdong> ok enough Bush parody for one night :)
[03:04] <jdong> it hurts.
[03:04] <imbrandon> elkbuntu: foxnews.com :)
[03:04] <jdong> elkbuntu: what he said.
[03:04] <frenchy> Is there an application that MOTUs and try-hard MOTUs use to create, check and build packages?  Maybe integrated with REVU.
[03:04] <Hobbsee> frenchy: pbuilder, lintian, linda....
[03:04] <imbrandon> lintian/linda
[03:05] <Hobbsee> there are some review tools somewhere, actually
[03:05] <frenchy> I know there's a lot of bits and pieces that people use. But ...
[03:05] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: in the archive, not sure how upto date they are
[03:05] <jdong> frenchy: no, there's nothing magically integrated together yet
[03:05] <Hobbsee> an integrated one?  no, not unless you're talking about revutools
[03:05] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: ahhh
[03:05] <frenchy> They are just that ... bit's and pieces.
[03:05] <imbrandon> frenchy: yup
[03:07] <frenchy> I'd like to build one (GTK based) that you can point at an upstream URL (or local) file and it takes you through a wizard asking you things like name, description.  Then does the build for you and does the linda/lintian checks for you.
[03:07] <DarkMageZ> frenchy, would it also build it for you?
[03:07] <imbrandon> frenchy: sure, your free to doso, its been talked aobut before just not acted upon
[03:07] <frenchy> The checking part of the application could be used to check existing packages on REVU.
[03:08]  * Hobbsee twitches
[03:08] <frenchy> Hobbsee: You don't like?
[03:08] <Hobbsee> sounds like the evil checkinstall.
[03:08] <jdong> Hobbsee: oh I've seen worse :)
[03:08] <Hobbsee> frenchy: anything that involves a "wizard", instead of making you modify debian/control yourself...is bad.
[03:09] <DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, not if it is done correctly.
[03:09] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: where correctly is "give a GUI to fill in the fields yourself"?
[03:09] <frenchy> Hobbsee: I really just meant for initial creation.  From then on it's the maintainers responsibility to keep it updated but the tool could still warn you about issues in the file.
[03:10] <Hobbsee> frenchy: you still need to set everything in debian/control for initial creation
[03:10] <Hobbsee> after htat, there's a tool called uupdate
[03:11] <DarkMageZ> if the tool is comprehensive it could be very useful.
[03:11] <DarkMageZ> otherwise it'd be a waste of time.
[03:11]  * Hobbsee wonders what's so unfriendly about a text editor.
[03:11] <jdong> Hobbsee: well if it's emacs I can understand the pain.
[03:12] <jdong> *hides*
[03:12] <Hobbsee> jdong: sure, i meant a text editor of choice :)
[03:12] <frenchy> There's just a lot of "bit and pieces" to put it all together.  I think that it's quite daunting for a new person and wastes MOTUs time with basic questions.
[03:12]  * imbrandon wonders what Hobbsee has against people trying, it could be something good
[03:12] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: only the crack that they'll come up with, if it's anything like checkinstall, tbh.
[03:12] <imbrandon> Hobbsee: who said it would be? we had talked about just this before
[03:13] <imbrandon> with deb checking etc
[03:13] <Hobbsee> true.  maybe it works.
[03:13] <imbrandon> :)
[03:13] <DarkMageZ> frenchy, could you include the ability to build a package and save it (as a module) and then later when you're building another package that depends on the first package that it could be easily added to the build system?
[03:13] <jdong> if it works well then yeah a more streamlined approach would be fantastic
[03:13] <imbrandon> it *could* work is all i'm getting at, no need to be negitive from the get go
[03:13] <imbrandon> :)
[03:13] <jdong> imbrandon: +!
[03:13] <jdong> +1
[03:14] <frenchy> imbrandon:  Well I was thinking of calling pbuilber to do that.  Will that work?
[03:14] <DarkMageZ> frenchy, i'm forever playing with packages that require a new library or a newer version of a library that is not part of the repos.
[03:14] <frenchy> DarkMageZ:  Sorry, that was for you ^^^
[03:14] <jdong> DarkMageZ: I have my pbuilder (prevu) output to a local repo which is in turn used in subsequent builds. Works fantastically for me
[03:15] <imbrandon> frenchy: not if the debian/control isnt filled out properly, honestly the tool is a great idea, but no offence it need someone with alot of packing experince to create it
[03:15] <frenchy> That
[03:15] <frenchy> 's where you guys come in.
[03:15] <TheMuso> jdong: What do you use to manage your repo?
[03:15] <jdong> TheMuso: prevu does it with dpkg-scanpackage calls after every build
[03:15] <frenchy> I'll learn and have a self documenting tool at the same time ... just an idea.
[03:16] <imbrandon> just dont write it in perl :)
[03:16] <imbrandon> lol
[03:16] <frenchy> imbrandon: Although I think the best choise is python ... I'm a c/C++ guy.
[03:16] <DarkMageZ> jdong, interesting hack. maybe something alittle more complex could be used in frenchy's tool.
[03:17] <jdong> DarkMageZ: yeah, the concept is there but of course it can be done more elegantly.
[03:17] <jdong> imbrandon: write it in scheme!!!
[03:17] <TheMuso> jdong: Right. That is certainly quick and dirty
[03:17] <frenchy> I'l do anything tat you guys ask.
[03:17]  * TheMuso has shell scripts almost complete to properly make and update a repo using apt-ftparchive.
[03:18] <TheMuso> And they use a little flat file db.
[03:18] <frenchy> I like XML.  Does anyone hate XML?

[03:19] <jdong> <attribute type="XMLPreference" values="low,high">low</attribute>

[03:20] <frenchy> jdong: That's a no?
[03:20] <jdong> frenchy: meh that's just me being a smartass. I don't care :)
[03:20] <jdong> it just ALWAYS seems XML is ridiculously verbose without any visible benefits
[03:20] <frenchy> jdong: Or are you just merely stating that XML is verbose.
[03:20] <frenchy> Yeah
[03:20] <imbrandon> frenchy: there are always oponents to everything, best case is "just do it" and if someone cares enough either way they will help
[03:20] <imbrandon> :)
[03:21] <jdong> frenchy: don't use my opinions in deterring you from picking a format *you* like.
[03:21] <frenchy> imbrandon:  Ta
[03:21] <jdong> frenchy: I've used the Python editor in IDLE before. I can bear anything.
[03:21] <jdong> :D
[03:21] <TheMuso> IMO it should be human readable
[03:22] <TheMuso> XML is, but isn't.
[03:22] <jdong> XML isn't.
[03:23] <frenchy> Hang on ... what was the DB for?
[03:24] <DarkMageZ> storing a structure of previously built packages. so i can pick bits and pieces for use in building packages later
[03:24] <frenchy> I was thinking of using it for preferences and recently dl'ed packages list.  All of which will be editable from the interface.
[03:27] <frenchy> DarkMageZ: won't pbuilder do that for you ... I don't know .. I thought that it could.
[03:27] <TheMuso> frenchy: What interface were you thinking of
[03:28] <frenchy> TheMuso: GTK, is that what you're asking?
[03:28] <TheMuso> frenchy: Yes. I don't see the point in having a GUI for such tools.
[03:28] <DarkMageZ> frenchy, it won't do it automatically. it requires a fair amount of pain.
[03:28] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: aka ccache?
[03:29] <DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, na. ccache is fun
[03:29] <persia> Personally, I'd be in favor of such a tool, if the focus was on a dh-make replacement to build a better sample, rather than a checkinstall replacement, to make a new package.
[03:29] <Hobbsee> persia++
[03:29] <persia> s/sample/example/
[03:30] <TheMuso> persia: ++
[03:30] <DarkMageZ> i'd prefer if the tool was capable of both
[03:30]  * TheMuso would prefer if the tool actively discouraged checkinstall.
[03:30] <persia> DarkMageZ: Just add a hook that calls lintian, linda, pbuilder/sbuild, lintian, and linda
[03:31] <persia> DarkMageZ: More explicitly: the wheel shouldn't be reinvented just because it can, but dh-make is not necessarily strong enough to do the right thing in many cases.
[03:32] <persia> To put it another way, I'd prefer an interactive wizard that helped the user to create a starting debian/ directory, rather than copying a bunch of examples that just have to get deleted later.
[03:32] <frenchy> DarkMageZ: I refer you to jdong's earlier comment: "I have my pbuilder (prevu) output to a local repo which is in turn used in subsequent builds. Works fantastically for me"
[03:32] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah that sounds good.
[03:33] <frenchy> persia: Exactly ... exactly what I mean.
[03:33] <frenchy> I'm sure you guys must get sink of noobs, like me, getting on, asking for a REVU, without knowing all the tools/rules that I could've used.  Same thing every time.
[03:34] <frenchy> I didn't even know what linda/lintian was before I asked for my package to be reviewed.
[03:36] <frenchy> Sure, my bad but I'd expect you see a lot of this.
[03:36] <persia> frenchy: Indeed, yes.  It's not so bad to explain lintian & linda, but it's frustrating to see the same dh-make induced errors on so many packages.
[03:38] <frenchy> persia: I understand you frustration ... but people don't know until they are told or they read it ... but they've got to *know* that there's something to read.  There are so many bits and pieces.
[03:39] <frenchy> And of course, it's not all selfless ... I'll learn a shit-ang load from you guys in the process.
[03:41] <frenchy> So, I might just start with a simple wizard that can create a debian project from an upstream.  I wanted to do this for w_scan anyway.
[03:42] <frenchy> And no, I won't call it "Me Packager"!
[03:49] <frenchy> DarkMageZ: Do you know if jdong's solution suits you?
[03:51] <DarkMageZ> frenchy, it's a hack that could be potentially useful. but if your tool is going to build the packages as well. it could be very useful to integrate something like that properly and cleanly
[03:52] <TheMuso> on't forget there are also those of us who use sbuild with LVM snapshots.
[03:52] <TheMuso> don't
[03:56] <frenchy> DarkMageZ: TheMuso: when it comes to that part I'll talk about your requirements on a little more detail.  Thanks both for your comments.
[03:57] <frenchy> TheMuso: Now, you didn't like my idea of a GTK interface.  Can I ask why?
[03:58]  * Hobbsee bets the ansewr is "accessibility"
[03:58] <bddebian> persia: Do you actually play conquest?
[03:58] <DarkMageZ> gtk is slow and flaky. etk or qt4 ftw :)
[03:59] <frenchy> DarkMageZ: Ahhh ... are you a KDE guy?
[03:59] <imbrandon> kde rocks :)
[03:59] <frenchy> Sorry, I've programmed and used them all and I think that GNOME is da bomb.
[03:59] <DarkMageZ> frenchy, nope. just anti gtk :)
[03:59] <imbrandon> although i will assume TheMuso will not like qt moreso than gtk :)
[04:01] <frenchy> imbrandon: qt4 was one of the suggestions.
[04:01] <TheMuso> ffThats before I saw persia's suggestion of a wizard.
[04:01] <TheMuso> frenchy: Thats before I saw persia's suggestion of a wizard.
[04:01] <frenchy> Why does ubuntu push GNOME if it's so bad?
[04:02] <TheMuso> GTK rocks. It has accessibility, something which QT can't really bost about atm.
[04:02] <TheMuso> frenchy: I thought the tool would be quite different to what it is likely going to be.
[04:02] <frenchy> TheMuso: Yes. And I can have a non digital clock ... sorry ... little dig.
[04:03] <frenchy> TheMuso: So are you still "anti" UI?
[04:03] <frenchy> TheMuso: GTK UI?
[04:03] <TheMuso> frenchy: No I am not.
[04:04] <LordKow> well if you're anti-UI then how is someone supposed to use a computer? :P
[04:04] <frenchy> TheMuso: It will be initially aimed at noobs.
[04:04] <LordKow> UI = User Interface
[04:04] <Hobbsee> LordKow: usually i'ts referring to GUI.
[04:04] <TheMuso> frenchy: Yeah I gathered. What language are you going to use? Python?
[04:04] <LordKow> i know im just playing with technicalities :P
[04:05] <frenchy> Probably not even though I admit that it might be a better option.  I'm a C/C++ guy.
[04:05] <TheMuso> Fair enough.
[04:07] <LordKow> hmm i would tackle this heimdal merge but im weary of doing merges that involves libs that I dont use. and even more this is a significant version jump, 0.7 to 1.0
[04:08] <frenchy> Ok, have to go and meet the outlaws, then I'll get started after that.  I thank you all for you comments and look forward to helping you, help me.
[04:13] <LordKow> bug 95240 if the changes recommended in this bug report are correct I will adjust the keytouch merge i will be working on to close this bug
[04:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 95240 in keytouch "keytouch user level preferences are in administration instead of preferences menu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95240
[04:13] <LordKow> items in Preferences are on a per user basis, while Administration entries are system-wide correct?
[04:16] <LordKow> http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/keytouch/REPORT *sniffle
[04:16] <LordKow> please let them be all changes i can drop
[04:19] <LordKow> heh all those conflicts are simply times/dates yay
[04:57] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, debdiff so that stacktraces can be useful. http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/libvisual.debdiff
[05:03] <ember> what can make executable 0755 on a .dpatch?
[05:03] <ember> is this normal?
[05:04] <LucidFox> ember> yes
[05:16] <LordKow>   help_button = gtk_button_new_from_stock ("gtk-help"); <-- now how is that supposed to be a valid help entry for KeyTouch?
[05:17] <LordKow> well i guess i dont know exactly how GTK UI works, has to be event driven though
[05:20] <LordKow> i see, keytouch has no callback for help because there is no help yet the button is there... well its the difference between a sync and a merge i shall leave it
[05:23] <LordKow> bug 173191
[05:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173191 in keytouch "Please sync keytouch-2.3.2-1 (universe) from Debian sid (admin)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173191
[05:42] <LordKow> ugh compiz still has some minor glitches with window borders, oh well
[05:46]  * Hobbsee grumbles about email
[05:46] <Hobbsee> motu generates too much email :P
[05:49] <LordKow> heh Hobbsee i think the lesson is dont put anything on the internet, even if its not in the announcement list, without it being considered "released" by people
[05:49] <LordKow> :P
[05:49] <ScottK> What now?
[05:49] <LordKow> (with regard to the Alpha 1 comment on the forums)
[05:49] <Hobbsee> LordKow: that's not really possible....
[05:50] <LordKow> i know :P
[05:50] <LordKow> you could pw protect the page until its in the announcements if it matters that much
[05:50] <Hobbsee> it would, of course, help if the forum mods actually understood about release stuff
[05:50] <Hobbsee> and double checked with the release team before making official statements like that...
[05:51] <ScottK> Hobbsee: It's forums.  Understand is counter productive.
[05:51] <Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah well.
[05:52] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i made a comment in sevilla, near a whole bunch of other forums people, to the effect of "well, there's so much misinformation on the forums, any real stuff will probably be negated by all of that, so who cares?"
[05:52] <Hobbsee> neeldess to say, i had to run rather quickly :P
[05:52] <ScottK> I second the motion.  Even when I was a brand new Ubuntu user who didn't know much of anything, I didn't do much with them.
[05:53] <LordKow> i dont consider anything on the forums "official" unless its a sticky or an announcement
[05:53]  * StevenK has ignored the forums
[05:55] <LordKow> and quite honestly i never even pay attention to releases except for switching my repositories over to the new development name (i always use development repos)
[05:58] <ScottK> But this is worth a trip to the forums to read ... http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3869792&postcount=16
[06:06] <minghua> ScottK: Not worth a trip for me.  I want my ten seconds back. :-)
[06:09] <LordKow> "never gave me no problem"
[06:09] <LordKow> so it has always given this person problems?
[06:09] <LordKow> heheh
[06:17] <nixternal> wow, I am wondering how we have a 3 year old version of mt-daapd in our repos, when they just release 0.2?
[06:18] <nixternal> 3 year old version == 0.9
[06:19] <Fujitsu> !info mt-daapd
[06:19] <Fujitsu> !info mt-daapd hardy
[06:19] <ubotu> mt-daapd: iTunes-compatible DAAP server. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9~r1586-1 (gutsy), package size 649 kB, installed size 1560 kB
[06:19] <ubotu> mt-daapd: iTunes-compatible DAAP server. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9~r1586-1 (hardy), package size 649 kB, installed size 1560 kB
[06:19] <Fujitsu> !info mt-daapd dapper
[06:19] <ubotu> Package mt-daapd does not exist in dapper
[06:20] <nixternal> it is like that in debian as well
[06:20] <nixternal> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=98211&package_id=105189
[06:22] <Fujitsu> Maybe they said their next version would be 0.9.
[06:22] <Fujitsu> Or the maintainer is on crack.
[06:22] <nixternal> dunno
[06:22] <Burgundavia> maintainer might be MIA
[06:23] <nixternal> maintainer isn't mia
[06:23] <nixternal> going to email him in a few
[06:23] <nixternal> mt-daapd is now called firefly as well
[06:23] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: MIAness has nothing to do with broken versions.
[06:23] <nixternal> so treu
[06:23] <nixternal> true too
[06:23] <Burgundavia> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=joshk@triplehelix.org
[06:24] <nixternal> [2007-07-19] Accepted 0.9~r1586-1 in unstable (low) (Joshua Kwan)
[06:24] <nixternal> just need to find out his online nick
[06:24] <Fujitsu> !info mt-daapd edgy
[06:24] <ubotu> Package mt-daapd does not exist in edgy
[06:24] <Fujitsu> I'm sure it's been around longer than that...
[06:25] <nixternal> it has been, just not in our repos
[06:25] <nixternal> it is in gutsy
[06:25] <imbrandon> 2006-10-12 was uploaded in debian first
[06:25] <imbrandon> 0.2+something
[06:25] <nixternal> ya, they had the version then what it is now
[06:25] <nixternal> that is goofy stuff
[06:26] <imbrandon> 0.2.4+r1376-1
[06:26] <imbrandon> looks like he does svn checkout,s and in svn it might have been called 0.9
[06:26] <nixternal> just looked through svn, don't see 0.9 anywhere in it
[06:27] <imbrandon> heh well then it will probably take an epoc to fix :)
[06:27] <nixternal> 2004-01-29  Ron Pedde  <ron@pedde.com>
[06:27] <nixternal> * Bump version number to 0.1.1
[06:27] <imbrandon> i would find out why first though, tralled the changelog ?
[06:27] <nixternal> that is the first item in the svn changelog
[06:27] <Fujitsu> Please also check the future intentions of upstream; they might do a bzr.
[06:28] <imbrandon> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/mt-daapd/current/changelog
[06:30] <nixternal> only thing in svn with a reference to anything with '0.9' is
[06:30] <imbrandon> nixternal: http://nightlies.mt-daapd.org/
[06:30] <nixternal> 2004-11-27 03:13  rpedde 6038  6039   * src/rend-howl.c: Update rend-howl to run with howl 0.9.
[06:30] <imbrandon> its a nightly release
[06:30] <nixternal> ahhh
[06:30] <nixternal> good find...I didn't even see that damn link
[06:30] <imbrandon> :)
[06:30] <nixternal> so it is the retarded crack dealers at firefly
[06:30] <nixternal> can you send a back hand through email?
[06:31] <imbrandon> ohhhh there is mipsel ipk packages ... i could run this on my FON :)
[06:31] <imbrandon> uSLUg ipkgs too , nice
[06:33] <imbrandon> unSLUgand windows, and osx dmg's, wow these guys cover the bases, and on nightly builds at that
[06:36] <nixternal> ya, they have gotten their act back together, that's for sure
[06:36] <nixternal> iirc, you were the one who turned me on to daapd
[06:37] <nixternal> i like it because i listen with amarok here, itunes there, and even from school I can stream my tunes :)
[06:37] <imbrandon> nixternal: yea i've been running mt-daapd since before it was in debian and before i was a MOTU, but i just dont follow the dev of it, it "just works" once installed :)
[06:37] <nixternal> actually, when you told me about it, it wasn't in debian/ubuntu either
[06:37] <nixternal> I had to build it from svn
[06:37] <imbrandon> i think i told you about it when amarok grew the ability to play daap streams
[06:37] <imbrandon> yea
[06:38] <nixternal> actually, before amarok
[06:38] <nixternal> I was using rythmbox with it
[06:38] <imbrandon> maybe anyhow yea
[06:38] <imbrandon> :)
[06:38] <nixternal> and when amarok sprung its wings, I quickly dropped that crap and came back over to the right side :p
[06:38] <imbrandon> i had it running on my breezy fileserver for quite a while
[06:39] <Fujitsu> Oh die LP.
[06:39] <nixternal> not to shabby....so far I have re-synched 400,000 songs and have just under 100,000 more to go
[06:39] <Fujitsu> William Grant does not currently have any assigned bugs in htdig in Ubuntu Dapper. Continue assigning this bug?
[06:39] <nixternal> rm -rf htdig!
[06:40] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: huh ? heh
[06:40] <Fujitsu> IT ASKS ME FOR EVERY SINGLE TASK.
[06:40] <imbrandon> wow
[06:40] <nixternal> if you get it working correctly with khelpcenter, I will give you a cookie
[06:40]  * Fujitsu files a bug.
[06:40] <nixternal> Fujitsu: our htdig is absolute garbage...we need to snag openSUSEs version because it works
[06:40] <StevenK> nixternal: Is the same true for Debian's?
[06:40] <Fujitsu> nixternal: I'm currently concerned with CVE-2007-6110 which is against it.
[06:40] <ubotu> Cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability in htsearch in htdig 3.2.0b6 allows remote attackers to inject arbitrary web script or HTML via the sort parameter. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-6110)
[06:40] <nixternal> I think openSUSE is the only distro where it searches
[06:40] <Fujitsu> And LP being retarded.
[06:41] <nixternal> StevenK: I believe so, can't remember though
[06:41] <Fujitsu> It should say `oh look, William Grant is an ubuntu-dev, so it might be mildly sane that I allow him to be assigned'
[06:41] <nixternal> I spent a week messing with it last year trying to get it to work
[06:41] <nixternal> I checked out 4 or 5 other distros and it didn't work there either
[06:41] <nixternal> iirc, it isn't even maintained upstream anymore
[06:42] <nixternal> it was missing build-deps last year when I filed a bug against it
[06:55] <LucidFox> If a Debian package has Standards-Version: 3.6.2, should I leave that alone or bump?
[06:57] <Fujitsu> LucidFox: We like to keep the diff minimal, so leave it alone.
[06:59] <nxvl> hi folks
[07:00] <imbrandon> heya nxvl
[07:00] <Fujitsu> Hi nxvl.
[07:15] <jdong> WELL that was fun
[07:15] <jdong> my dorm was just evacuated for a fire alarm at 2:15AM
[07:15] <jdong> yay!
[07:15] <imbrandon> jdong: stop smokin weed in the dorm
[07:15] <imbrandon> :)
[07:15] <jdong> lol too late
[07:16] <minghua> people smoke weed in the dorm?
[07:16] <minghua> Isn't that just asking for trouble...
[07:18] <imbrandon> anyone have any recomendations on a free ( as in beer ) online file storage place that will let me use it like a real fs, maybe via fuse or some such, dosnet have to be big, i'm probably only gonna keep a ~25MB encrypted FS image on it ( and no i dont wanna use gDrive , something legit)
[07:18] <jdong> minghua: haha , no, we just managed to lose water pressure which set off the alarm system
[07:18]  * imbrandon does so in the privacy of his own home
[07:18]  * jdong blames it on the nearby construction
[07:18] <nxvl> imbrandon: gmail
[07:19] <imbrandon> nxvl: gmail == gDrive
[07:19] <imbrandon> i'd like to use something legit
[07:19] <nxvl> stuff like
[07:20]  * minghua hasn't heard of such free services.
[07:20] <imbrandon> Ron Paul wants to legalize it :)
[07:20] <minghua> And 25 MB is not small IMO...
[07:21] <imbrandon> minghua: well most of the free ones offer 5GB or more, so its small relitively
[07:21] <imbrandon> but they are all webbased only
[07:22] <jdong> imbrandon: what about one of those free shell providers?
[07:22] <minghua> imbrandon: Oh, you mean things like mediafire?
[07:22] <jdong> imbrandon: I definitely recall some of them having quotas in the 20-30MB ballpark
[07:22] <imbrandon> jdong: hrm true i dident think about that, sshfs
[07:22] <jdong> yep :)
[07:22] <imbrandon> minghua: yea or box.net etc
[07:24] <jdong> Ubulette: x264 has been reuploaded to hardy; currently somehow it's in depwait on libgpac-dev which should already have been available... *grumble*
[07:25] <Fujitsu> jdong: Ogre-modle.
[07:25] <Fujitsu> s/modle/model
[07:25] <Fujitsu> ogre-model + LP bug == haha.
[07:25] <StevenK> Fujitsu: What's the LP bug?
[07:25] <Fujitsu> StevenK: All new sources go to main. No questions asked.
[07:26] <Fujitsu> And you can't demote from the web UI.
[07:26] <jdong> Fujitsu: oh that's right...
[07:26] <jdong> Fujitsu: I forgot about that
[07:26] <StevenK> Sigh.
[07:26] <Fujitsu> StevenK: ?
[07:26] <StevenK> Having new sources go to main doesn't make sense.
[07:27] <Fujitsu> Oh, I thought you were sighing about me complaining about LP.
[07:27] <StevenK> Nope, I'd be drinking.
[07:27] <StevenK> :-P
[07:27] <Fujitsu> Haha,
[07:28] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: for everything or just the PPA's ?
[07:29] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: PPAs no longer have components. I'm talking primary archive here.
[07:29] <Fujitsu> ./
[07:29] <Fujitsu> Bah.
[07:29] <Fujitsu> (sorry, cleaning keyboard, expect random characters occasionally)
[07:29] <imbrandon> btw they STILL havent cleaned my /pool out /me is getting a bit irritated abut that
[07:29] <jdong> imbrandon: yeah hobbsee just accepted x264 (again) and it goes from source NEW right to main :)
[07:29] <jdong> yay!
[07:29] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: I'm not sure if they actually get cleaned.
[07:30] <minghua> Fujitsu: Keyboards should have a switch. :-)
[07:30] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: wtf woudl be the point of deleting them then? heh
[07:30] <imbrandon> they are still apt-getable
[07:30] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Oh, still apt-getable? That sounds like a bug.
[07:30] <imbrandon> heh
[07:30] <Fujitsu> They should at least be gone from Packages/Sources.
[07:30] <imbrandon> iirc they arent
[07:31] <StevenK> Yeah, I need to file a ticket to get my PPA emptied
[07:31] <Fujitsu> (wow, a PPA bug. New.)
[07:31] <StevenK> Fujitsu: No, no. "Completly unexpected"
[07:31] <imbrandon> StevenK: heh i did ~2 weeks ago, they got marked "deleted" on the UI
[07:31] <StevenK> :-P
[07:31] <imbrandon> in 24 hours, but still in the /pool
[07:32] <StevenK> Maybe the Janitor just assigns random untouched bugs to the packages.
[07:32] <imbrandon> taking up my 1GB of quota :) ( and cluttering my pool )
[07:32] <Fujitsu> StevenK: Now now, you're employed by them now.
[07:33] <imbrandon> bah, i guess i'll just use my 128 mb ipod shuffle knockoff for the diskimage
[07:33] <StevenK> Hah
[07:33] <StevenK> "What's this song, Brandon? It sounds broken."
[07:33] <imbrandon> lol
[07:34] <imbrandon> as long as i dont name it something.{wma,mp3} the player wont try to play it
[07:34] <imbrandon> :)
[07:35] <jdong> hahaha
[07:35] <jdong> StevenK: that's hip hop. hip hop. it's supposed to be that way.
[07:35] <Fujitsu> jdong: Hahaha.
[07:35] <imbrandon> plus i got it for free the other day , might as well put it to use, its too cheap to give to someone without feeling bad :)
[07:36] <imbrandon> and i have real iPod(s) so no need for it to actualy play music :)
[07:36] <StevenK> jdong: Muahaha
[07:37] <StevenK> Maybe Brandon can sell his encrypted data to record labels and make a killing.
[07:37] <imbrandon> lol
[07:37] <imbrandon> that would be sweet
[07:37] <imbrandon> "brandons backup ssh keys sound like the next pDiddy"
[07:38] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, updated version of the goom2k4 debdiff for libvisual-plugins. http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/libvisual-plugins.tar.bz2
[07:38] <jdong> it's just Diddy now. The P interferes with the ability for his audience to pronounce the name.
[07:38] <imbrandon> whats the shelf life on flash ( usbkey ) storage ?
[07:38] <StevenK> Well, you both have roughly the same amount of musical talent.
[07:38] <StevenK> jdong: And you know this why? :-P
[07:39] <jdong> StevenK: no comment ;-)
[07:39]  * StevenK belts jdong with the 5th Amendment
[07:40] <jdong> lol I kinda have a slight rap addiction ;-)
[07:40] <jdong> it's catchy.
[07:40] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: cool, hey do you have anywhere else to put those? comcast dosent like your server for some reason and my AT&T dsl dosent get installe dfor another few ( ~10 ) days
[07:40] <StevenK>  /ignore jdong ALL
[07:40]  * Fujitsu strangles jdong.
[07:40] <jdong> imbrandon: gasp, Comcast would NEVER do anything to interrupt traffic!
[07:40] <StevenK> :-P
[07:40] <Fujitsu> I HATE rap.
[07:40] <DarkMageZ> oh.. forgot that comcast are a bunch of commies. no i don't have anywhere else.
[07:40] <imbrandon> jdong: heh, man i got so fed up with it yesterday i ordered AT&T dsl :)
[07:41] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: ok can you give me a consolidated list of all your ( current against -2 ) patches/diffs etc, and i'll ssh into another connects and grab them all at once
[07:41] <jdong> DarkMageZ: now now, forging TCP RST packets is just "delaying" the traffic so that "less volume" users don't get "crowded out" by evil evil bittorrent users
[07:41] <Fujitsu> When did DebianMaintainerField appear? I've just realised I should be following it in my security uploads, but am not quite sure which releases it is needed in.
[07:41] <Fujitsu> jdong: Naturally.
[07:42] <DarkMageZ> jdong, ... it's http... comcast are communists.
[07:42] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: edgy iirc
[07:42] <StevenK> Fujitsu: >= Feisty, I think
[07:42] <Fujitsu> Noooo.
[07:42] <imbrandon> yea feisty
[07:42] <Fujitsu> I thought it was Edgy, but I could be wrong.
[07:42]  * Fujitsu goes with Feisty.
[07:42] <StevenK> You say Edgy, and then I say Feisty, and you switch. What the?
[07:42] <imbrandon> it was just after edgy released, we just talked about it in edgy but not enforced till feisty
[07:43] <StevenK> The binary packages were mangled in Edgy, though, right?
[07:43] <Fujitsu> Binary packages have been mangled for quite a while.
[07:43] <imbrandon> erm yea i think maybe at the end
[07:43] <nixternal> lets also not forget that comcast does a) blocks usenet stuff and b) doesn't provide a usenet account anymore
[07:43] <nixternal> bastages
[07:43]  * nixternal waits for FIOS
[07:43] <StevenK> What's a bastage?
[07:43] <imbrandon> bastard diritive
[07:44] <minghua> And what's a diritive?
[07:44] <nixternal> ubuntu :p
[07:44] <StevenK> derivative isn't spelled 'diritive'
[07:44] <jdong> minghua: it's d/dx when drunk.
[07:44] <pwnguin> directive, or derivitive?
[07:45] <imbrandon> yea plus i loved my kc.rr.com acount, 10mb down and 1mb up, reality, but comcast is 1.5 /384 IF i'm lucky, at&t said i'm getting 6mb and 1mb
[07:45] <jdong> imbrandon: around my place Comcast is lightning fast (>5MB/s) during the day and nearly dead at peak hours
[07:45] <jdong> imbrandon: they lure in a lot of customers with their burst speeds
[07:45] <nxvl> fontconfig's changelog has lost entrys
[07:46] <nixternal> imbrandon: with comcrap I have 8mb down, 1mb up
[07:46] <StevenK> jdong: Yeah, it's all these "bastages" downloading "diritives"
[07:46] <minghua> nxvl: Huh?  Which ones?
[07:46]  * StevenK pokes fun of nixternal and imbrandon in one fell swoop
[07:46] <jdong> RST!
[07:46] <nxvl> minghua: the first ubuntu entry is a merge
[07:46] <imbrandon> nixternal / jdong : yea but i also have 2 dvrs in the house too and that kills the bandwidth with on-demand crap
[07:46]  * nixternal trips StevenK 
[07:47] <imbrandon> StevenK: heh
[07:47] <nxvl> minghua: so there MUST be some entry loses
[07:47] <minghua> nxvl: I see.
[07:47]  * StevenK lands on nixternal's copy of Vista
[07:47] <nixternal> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
[07:47]  * nixternal cries
[07:47] <Fujitsu> !nixternal
[07:47] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[07:47] <nixternal> !visternal
[07:47] <Fujitsu> Hmm... I wonder...
[07:47] <jdong> nixternal: don't worry you can still call the genuine activation hotline for a replacement copy!
[07:47] <nxvl> imbrandon: did you have any new task for me?
[07:47] <Fujitsu> !fujitsu]
[07:47] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about fujitsu] - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[07:47] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[07:47] <Fujitsu> !fujitsu
[07:47] <nixternal> jdong: thanks for the save!
[07:48] <StevenK> Hah
[07:48] <Fujitsu> !fujitsu
[07:48] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[07:48] <Fujitsu> I'm sure it was there.
[07:48] <Fujitsu> So it is.
[07:48] <Fujitsu> !-fujitsu
[07:48] <ubotu> fujitsu is <alias> nixternal - added by LongPointyStick on 2007-11-12 04:16:30
[07:48] <nixternal> ahh, you are with me ey? :)
[07:48] <Fujitsu> Ehem.
[07:48] <nixternal> go figure
[07:48] <jdong> he is you.
[07:48] <nixternal> !-nixternal
[07:48] <ubotu> nixternal aliases: visternal, fujitsu - added by Hobbsee on 2007-05-31 09:32:53
[07:48] <Fujitsu> jdong: dThat I am.
[07:48] <Fujitsu> -d
[07:48] <nixternal> haha, damn her
[07:48] <minghua> nxvl: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/f/fontconfig/ seems to have a bunch of old changelogs.
[07:48] <StevenK> jdong: Yeah, but they won't give him a Bill Gates signed copy. :-P
[07:49] <jdong> StevenK: FYI it's called the Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Limited Numbered Signature Edition.
[07:49] <nixternal> jesus
[07:49] <imbrandon> nxvl: hrm, not really, i think your honestly past the point of "getting tasks" as you know where to look for things to fix, more just need help on using the tools to actualy fix them, i would sugest looking on LP for things with patches or almost ready patches and getting them ready for the sponsors-queue and poke me when you hit bumps
[07:49] <imbrandon> nxvl: want some LP urls?
[07:49] <StevenK> jdong: I said it before, *how* do you know this?
[07:49] <StevenK> jdong: You have a rap and crack addiction?
[07:50] <jdong> StevenK: haha I'm a nerd, remember? :)
[07:50] <StevenK> Oh wait, tautolgy
[07:50] <nixternal> ya, jdong it should be against the law to remember something like that
[07:50] <nixternal> and you listen to crap music
[07:50] <jdong> nixternal: I guess I ridicule it a bit too much :)
[07:50] <Fujitsu> +1 nixternal, on both counts.
[07:51] <imbrandon> ubuntu + serial + crack + keygen , on bittorrent ftw
[07:51] <jdong> haha
[07:51] <nixternal> anyone feel like giving a KDE 4 talk, Developing Kubuntu talk, and an Open Education talk for my today?
[07:51] <jdong> can't download it with comcast though.
[07:51] <imbrandon> jdong: you can download it , just not seed it
[07:51] <imbrandon> :)
[07:51] <nixternal> jdong: you can download with comcrap, you just can't seed
[07:51] <jdong> yay like birth control!
[07:52] <nxvl> imbrandon: well, i have made some FTBFS, reported some other with enougth information, and do also some merges, and also i don't simply past the task, i keep doing them as i do the new ones
[07:52] <nixternal> Hank Williams Jr. & Kid Rock- Naked Women and Beer.ogg                    100% 4649KB 664.1KB/s   00:07
[07:52] <nixternal> that song rocks!
[07:52] <jdong> and *I* listen to crap music.
[07:52] <Fujitsu> nxvl: You made some FTBFS? That sounds bad...
[07:52] <nixternal> Bosephus is far from crap music
[07:52] <nxvl> s/made/fix/
[07:52] <nxvl> Fujitsu: :D
[07:52] <imbrandon> nxvl: great, thats the way to do it, basicly its just tons of practice at this point untill you come accross corner cases
[07:53] <imbrandon> and in ubuntu that seems to be about every 5th package :)
[07:53] <StevenK> Now now
[07:53] <imbrandon> ;)
[07:54] <nxvl> imbrandon: thats why i ask you for task all the time, so i can work on more things, not to stop working on the last and step to the other
[07:54] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: ok can you give me a consolidated list of all your ( current against -2 ) patches/diffs etc, and i'll ssh into another connects and grab them all at once
[07:55] <imbrandon> nxvl: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com has lots of fun TODO links :)
[07:55]  * StevenK uploads two packages just before the publisher.
[07:55] <nxvl> imbrandon: i look in there al the time :D
[07:56] <nxvl> s/al/all/g
[07:56] <imbrandon> nxvl: right, thats why i say your on the right track, just keep on keepin on
[07:56] <nxvl> i have work with some debchecks already
[07:56] <imbrandon> most of the stuff is just boring stuff to do the same thing over and over
[07:57] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, there are only 2 files. http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/libvisual.debdiff & libvisual-plugins.tar.bz2
[07:57] <StevenK> Sigh. Who's bright idea was this name: libgwenhywfar
[07:58] <nxvl> what are uehs and how they work?
[07:58] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: ok sounds good, i'll get to those before i sleep
[07:58] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, i'm sorry for the size of the plugins one. but the majority of that is cleaning up the 90_autoreconf...
[07:58] <imbrandon> nxvl: its what checks all the debian/watch files for new upstream versions iirc
[07:58] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, from 4.4MB to 653.1KB.
[07:59] <imbrandon> nxvl: i *think* Fujitsu is the author of that script, he could probably correct me if i'm off
[07:59] <Fujitsu> I didn't write it, but I corrected the English and made various other changes.
[07:59] <imbrandon> ahh
[08:00] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: cool ok
[08:02] <imbrandon> StevenK: dont you keep a crypted fs on a usb device, any scripts or things i should look outfor when setting mine up? i'm probably gonna have ~/.gnupg/secring.gpg and friends symlinked to the fs so when its mounted ..... etc
[08:03] <StevenK> imbrandon: Crypted FS yes, but I don't have anything like GPG key on it
[08:04] <imbrandon> k
[08:04] <imbrandon> i'm basicly trying to make my key safer but portable between a few systems here in the house
[08:04] <imbrandon> hehe
[08:05] <imbrandon> e.g. not have the key on each box but still accessable on each box if i want it
[08:05] <imbrandon> same with ssh
[08:05] <imbrandon> ( plus works as a good backup , cd-r shelflife sucks )
[08:06]  * Fujitsu has some CD-Rs burnt 8 years ago that still work flawlessly.
[08:06] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea but i also have some burned 3 years ago that i can barely read
[08:06] <imbrandon> heh
[08:06] <nxvl> imbrandon: i copy it on all my systems using secure copy
[08:07] <imbrandon> most cd-r's have a ~5 year shelf life iirc
[08:07] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Learning from Cody's mistakes?
[08:07] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: nah, i've always only needed it on one machine, but lately i've been having more than one box i sit at
[08:08] <imbrandon> and copying ~.gnupg ~.ssh to each box, even in my own house , just seems wrong
[08:08]  * Fujitsu is boring and has his keys on one machine, with crypto-LVM.
[08:10] <imbrandon> yea currently i only have them on hood ( my main box ) and a cd-r in safe deposit box at the bank ( case of hdd crash )
[08:10] <nxvl> btw
[08:10] <StevenK> ... Why 'hood'?
[08:10] <nxvl> can someone take a look at Bug #173088 and soponsor it please
[08:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173088 in apt-proxy "Merge apt-proxy-1.9.36.1 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173088
[08:10] <Fujitsu> imbrandon in da hood.
[08:10] <imbrandon> StevenK: its a startrek ship name ;)
[08:10] <StevenK> Fujitsu: I was just thinking that.
[08:10] <Fujitsu> s/hood/'hood/
[08:10] <imbrandon> heh
[08:11] <nxvl> also on Bug #156047
[08:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156047 in python-biopython "import Bio.PDB of python-biopython at gutsy" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156047
[08:11] <imbrandon> member my boxen are all st ship names :)
[08:11] <StevenK> imbrandon: Yeah, but there's better ships than the USS Hood. Like Excelsior, Defiant, Prometheus
[08:11] <imbrandon> i already have the latter two of those
[08:11]  * Fujitsu notes he hasn't seen any Star Trek.
[08:11] <imbrandon> ( and quite a few others )
[08:11] <StevenK> Heh, interesting that all three of those are NX-
[08:11]  * minghua is with Fujitsu.
[08:12] <imbrandon> also enterprise, horatio, voyager, ummmm
[08:12] <Fujitsu> intrepid?
[08:12] <imbrandon> i *had* a borg-cube at one time ( a dell 8u monster that looked like a borg cube ) hehe
[08:13] <imbrandon> ahh yea, the out of service intrepid
[08:13] <imbrandon> i should bring that name back
[08:13] <StevenK> imbrandon: It should have been cube-4562 or so
[08:13] <imbrandon> :)
[08:14] <imbrandon> i almost dident use prometheus though, because of SG-1's use of it
[08:14] <imbrandon> but my little mipsel FON router needed a name :)
[08:15] <StevenK> $OLD_WORK has a prometheus, due to being atlas' brother/cousin
[08:16] <imbrandon> and currently i have an iMac sitting here with no OS or name, it might become intrepid re-incarnated
[08:16] <nxvl> wow, my karma grows like 200 over the last 3 weeks :D
[08:16] <imbrandon> nxvl: :)
[08:16]  * Fujitsu has grown an extra 3000 or so karma in the last couple of weeks.
[08:17] <imbrandon> i used to have over 20k karma, now its less than 100 last time i looked
[08:17] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: They downscaled it by a factor of more than 10000 last year.
[08:17] <Fujitsu> Er, -0
[08:17] <geser> Fujitsu: how did you do it?
[08:17] <nxvl> Fujitsu: i have only like a month maybe 2 contributing
[08:18] <Fujitsu> geser: Do what?
[08:18] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea thats when mine dropped tons
[08:18] <imbrandon> Karma:  155
[08:18] <imbrandon> woot, probably the lowest core-dev :)
[08:18] <geser> Fujitsu: how did you manage to increase your karma that fast
[08:19] <imbrandon> you know we all bitch about the speed of LP, but has anyone used sf.net bug tracker reciently? man it CRAWLS
[08:19] <Fujitsu> geser: Dealing with a lot of multi-task bugs (security), I ugess.
[08:19] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: SF is special.
[08:19] <imbrandon> to say the leaste
[08:19] <Fujitsu> s/ugess/guess/
[08:20]  * minghua doesn't consider SF to have a bug tracker.
[08:20] <Fujitsu> +1 minghua
[08:20] <imbrandon> heh
[08:20] <minghua> It's more like a bug pit, you throw stuff in, and fish things out among a big swarm when you need it. :-)
[08:21] <imbrandon> i bet if i installed adblock on sf.net it would speed it up
[08:21] <nxvl> heh
[08:23] <geser> Fujitsu: you are now #4 in bug management karma
[08:24] <Fujitsu> geser: Haha.
[08:24]  * Fujitsu looks.
[08:24] <Fujitsu> Is seb128 still on top?
[08:25]  * Fujitsu imagines bdmurray will be fairly high.
[08:25] <Fujitsu> And pitti. That I didn't expect.
[08:25]  * Fujitsu prepares to defeat all but seb128.
[08:26] <nxvl> Fujitsu: seb128 has like 4 times your karma
[08:26] <Fujitsu> nxvl: Hence the last bit.
[08:27] <geser> Fujitsu: pitti is an archive admin and has to close all those sync requests
[08:27]  * minghua doesn't like LP's closed-algorithm karma.
[08:27] <Fujitsu> geser: Ahh, true.
[08:28] <geser> Fujitsu: but you are still far behind norsetto in total karma
[08:28] <Burgundavia> minghua: it is that way so that sabdfl can screw with it as needed
[08:28] <Fujitsu> But norsettoisagod.
[08:28] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: It hasn't been stuffed with in about 12 months.
[08:28]  * Fujitsu is almost on the overall karma list.
[08:28] <minghua> Burgundavia: I doubt it.  But I don't really care.
[08:29] <minghua> Most likely it's just as closed source as the whole LP.
[08:30] <nxvl> is there any way to see the karma scores?
[08:31] <LucidFox> nxvl> it's displayed on your LP user page
[08:31] <Fujitsu> nxvl: They're on the owner's page, and /ubuntu/+topcontributors
[08:31] <geser> wow, apport has 5500 karma in bug management
[08:31] <LucidFox> hehe
[08:31] <Fujitsu> geser: Pfft. It can do better.
[08:32] <nxvl> wew norsetto defeat seb
[08:32] <imbrandon> is there a way to link a debian bts bug to upstream like in LP ?
[08:32] <Fujitsu> Launchpad Answers is somewhat overinflated.
[08:33] <nxvl> imbrandon: just post the link
[08:33] <nxvl> is there any way to see LP users by country?
[08:33] <Fujitsu> nxvl: You can see their timezones, and might be able to google.
[08:33] <nxvl> Fujitsu: yep, but if i want to check if there is a peruvian ubuntu member, can i see it?
[08:34] <nxvl> or must i browse, profile by profile?
[08:34] <geser> imbrandon: http://bts-link.alioth.debian.org/
[08:34] <Fujitsu> nxvl: You would probably have to browse, or GOogle.
[08:35] <nxvl> kind of to much work
[08:35] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: you know what gets me, the lates thing in LP to bug me is branding images HAVE to be a certain size HxW , i mean hasent gd/imagemagic/$something been able to do that for years ?
[08:35] <imbrandon> latest*
[08:36] <imbrandon> seems like lazy coding
[08:36] <Fujitsu> It's best to not have to scale it.
[08:36] <Fujitsu> As that looks bad.
[08:36] <imbrandon> right, but state a recomnded size, and scale others
[08:37] <imbrandon> hell they arent even standard sizes, e.g. the icons are 14x14 vs 16x16 etc
[08:37] <imbrandon> heh
[08:38] <imbrandon> i mean 99% of the time someone is just gonna take the image in gimp and scale it anyhow, and those that wouldent will take the time to make it the recomended sizr
[08:38] <imbrandon> size
[08:39]  * imbrandon gets off the soapbox
[08:39] <nxvl> well, time to sleep
[08:39] <nxvl> good night
[08:39] <imbrandon> gnight nxvl
[08:39] <Fujitsu> Night nxvl.
[09:27] <imbrandon> man people can just be asses sometime
[09:27] <imbrandon> s
[09:29] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Who what how why whence wherefore whither?
[09:30] <Fujitsu> +where
[09:31] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: #bzr scrollback
[09:31]  * Fujitsu isn't in there.
[09:31] <imbrandon> one sec, i'll pastebin
[09:32] <imbrandon> http://paste.ubuntu.com/2393/
[09:33] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: ^
[09:33] <Fujitsu> Pleasant./
[09:34] <imbrandon> yea seems so ...
[09:36] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: and the rough part is bzr from the bzr website removes bzr-svn, but i wont be going back in there to say anything
[09:36] <imbrandon> heh
[09:36] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Right, bzr-svn needs to be updated.
[09:37] <imbrandon> yea seems there isnt 1.X in the bzr repo, i'll just install the latest from the bzr repo and recompile bzr-svn
[09:37] <imbrandon> against it, and see if it works
[09:37] <minghua> That's just unnecessary language on both sides IMHO...
[09:37] <minghua> Debian's bzr-svn is 0.92 based.
[09:38] <imbrandon> minghua: probably so, but i was a little ticked, that is very much restraint for me trying to stay CoC
[09:38] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: No CoC over there.
[09:38]  * minghua nods.
[09:38] <imbrandon> CoC applies everywhere you are, blogs or anywhere
[09:38] <imbrandon> if you are a member
[09:38] <minghua> Even in my daily life?  I don't think so.
[09:39] <imbrandon> minghua: technicly yes, its stated that way when you agree to it
[09:39] <minghua> Oh...
[09:40] <minghua> It probably wasn't a good idea to sign CoC after all...
[09:41] <geser> minghua: simply don't get caught
[09:41]  * Fujitsu grumbles at -updates vs. -security versioning.
[09:41] <Fujitsu> Anybody know what I do if we have .1 in feisty-updates and gutsy-updates, and I need to perform a security update?
[09:42] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: yea i always thought -updates should use .0.x and -security use .x
[09:42] <persia> bddebian: I pretty much only play torcs, teg, chromium, spider, and vegastrike.  Sometimes I do puzzles or play cards.
[09:42] <imbrandon> but thats moot now
[09:42]  * persia returns to deep idle
[09:42] <Fujitsu> Morning, persia.
[09:43] <geser> Fujitsu: why not use .2?
[09:46] <Fujitsu> geser: I'll then push .3 to -updates very rapidly, I guess.
[09:46] <imbrandon> Fujitsu: why?
[09:47] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: So the changes in -updates don't get reverted...
[09:47] <imbrandon> umm just base .2 off the -updates version
[09:47] <imbrandon> since updates is on by default
[09:47] <Fujitsu> imbrandon: Erm, no.
[09:47] <Fujitsu> -security is for security.
[09:48] <imbrandon> right push .2 to -security based of the .1 version
[09:48] <imbrandon> no regressions
[09:48] <minghua> Fujitsu: sounds a stupid policy to me.
[09:48] <Fujitsu> minghua: What is?
[09:49] <Fujitsu> -security is for security uploads only, not rolling normal updates in too.
[09:49] <minghua> Fujitsu: Can't base a -security on top of -updates.
[09:49] <minghua> Fujitsu: On second though, it makes some sense.
[09:49] <Fujitsu> Right.
[09:49]  * white_ waves
[09:49] <Fujitsu> Hey white_.
[09:49] <imbrandon> heya white
[09:49] <white> Fujitsu: you asked for me? :)
[09:49] <RainCT> imbrandon, minghua: «This Code of Conduct covers your behaviour *as a member of the Ubuntu Community*, in any forum, mailing list, wiki, web site, IRC channel, install-fest, public meeting or private correspondence.» I understant that it only applies when you are acting in an Ubuntu related place or representing Ubuntu in some way
[09:49] <minghua> I keep forgetting Ubuntu's -updates is much less strict than Debian's.
[09:50] <minghua> RainCT: That's what I thought.  Thanks for the quote.
[09:50] <imbrandon> RainCT: well on IRC i have a ubuntu cloak :)
[09:50] <minghua> imbrandon: In my daily life I don't. :-)
[09:50] <imbrandon> :)
[09:51] <RainCT> :)
[09:52] <DarkMageZ> anyone up for helping me with a package i'm building? the author has given me a answer to a question in coder speak and i fail @ coding. http://mirror.randumb.org/darkmagez/liquidtrixx/
[09:55] <geser> DarkMageZ: what's the problem?
[09:56] <DarkMageZ> the current build log = http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10677675/log . the upstream said something about the FILE pointer being a c definition not a c++ def.
[09:57] <minghua> You probably need "#include <cstdlib>" or something.
, it turns out.
[10:00] <DarkMageZ> i'll give that a shot after this pbuilder run finishes :)
[10:01] <white> Fujitsu: querys
[10:02] <imbrandon> ohh i love bzr, got it working
[10:03]  * RainCT also loves bzr :P
[10:07] <DarkMageZ> nope. no luck on including cstdio :(
[10:13] <geser> Lutin: any reason why ubuntu-archive shouldn't be subscribed to bug #163423?
[10:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 163423 in httptunnel "Please sync httptunnel 3.3+dfsg-1  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163423
[10:15] <Lutin> geser: no reason. I requested it with requestsync, so assumed it was done
[10:18] <geser> Lutin: I've subscribed u-a now
[10:18] <Lutin> geser: thanks
[10:24] <persia> Fujitsu: Good afternoon
[10:25] <persia> LucidFox: What's the status of libwoodstox-java?  Does it still need a touch, or just a sync?
[10:31] <geser> Hi Hobbsee
[10:32] <Hobbsee> hey geser
[10:40] <effie_jayx> hello all
[10:45] <asisak> Heya MOTUs!
[10:45] <DktrKranz> Heya asisak
[10:49] <geser> Hi asisak
[10:49] <asisak> Hey DktrKranz, geser!
[11:04] <Lutin> any clue why grub has a build-depends-indep on mkisofs ?
[11:05] <Hobbsee>   * control (Build-Depends): Moved e2tools, e2fsprogs and mkisofs to
[11:05] <Hobbsee>     Build-Depends-Indep (they are only needed for grub-disk).
[11:05] <zorg_the_false> q. is there a page with a simple explaination on how to produce patch ? i fixed some bug and would like to send the patches to the author ?
[11:05] <Hobbsee>   * Provide an iso9660 CD image with grub-disk
[11:05] <Hobbsee>     - control (Build-Depends): Add mkisofs.
[11:05] <Hobbsee>     - rules: Uncomment and misc fixes in mkisofs commands.
[11:05] <Hobbsee> Lutin: ^ help?
[11:06] <Fujitsu> J
[11:06] <asisak> zorg_the_false: I would recommend "man patch". I guess its use is quite straightforward
[11:06] <zorg_the_false> ok ok so i go on googling :)
[11:07] <zorg_the_false> asisak: any suggestion as of where i could get help ?
[11:07] <zorg_the_false> beside man page :))))))))
[11:07] <Lutin> Hobbsee: not much. mkisofs is in multiverse and a quick grep shows no call to mkisofs in the sources
[11:08] <Hobbsee> Lutin: ouch???
[11:08] <zorg_the_false> asisak: ok so google. thanks anyway :)
[11:08] <pochu> !patch
[11:08] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about patch - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[11:08] <asisak> pochu: wrong guess :)
[11:08] <pochu> !packagingguide
[11:08] <ubotu> packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
[11:09] <pochu> asisak: :)
[11:09] <asisak> BTW zorg left :(
[11:09] <Lutin> Hobbsee: yeah, ouch
[11:09] <pochu> !packagingguide | zorg_the_false
[11:09] <ubotu> zorg_the_false: packagingguide is The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
[11:09] <Fujitsu> I recall that we brought back the Evil® cdrecord, which now provides the mkisofs.
[11:09] <Hobbsee> Lutin: might want to ask whoever's doing grub, etc, these days about it
[11:09] <persia> zorg_the_false: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix might help
[11:10] <pochu> zorg_the_false: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
[11:10] <zorg_the_false> persia: ok will look
[11:10] <zorg_the_false> bye :)
[11:10] <Lutin> Fujitsu: ?
[11:11] <persia> ubotu: patch is Patches are files describing the changes in code to achieve some results.  There are a number of ways these can be produced, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems may provide some useful guidelines.
[11:11] <Fujitsu> cdrkit is a fork of the Evil® cdrecord. It was in main, and provided mkisofs in <= Feisty.
[11:12] <Fujitsu> In Gutsy, IIRC, we brought back the evil one, into multiverse.
[11:12]  * persia thinks this is a new definition of evil
[11:12] <minghua> Fujitsu: Evil is even registered?  By whom? ;-)
[11:13] <pochu> !evil
[11:13] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about evil - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[11:13] <Fujitsu> The Schilling cdrecord, anyway.
[11:13] <Lutin> Fujitsu: well genisoimage replaces: mkisofs, but still can't get why it's in b-d-i if the sources don't need it and
[11:13] <persia> minghua: Likely the Lord Lyon has a registration, if nobody else
[11:16] <minghua> persia: Lord Lyon?  As in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Lyon_King_of_Arms?
[11:16] <persia> minghua: Right.  Last I heard, anyone who paid the fee could register a tartan with them.  I'd be surprised if nobody had yet registered the evil tartan.
[11:18] <minghua> Ah, tartans.  I know Debian has one.
[11:18] <minghua> persia: It's quite a obscure reference to me though.
[11:19] <minghua> Chinese people don't have coat of arms, or tartans.
[11:19] <persia> minghua: That's why wikipedia exists :)
[11:19] <minghua> ... or should that be "coats of arms"?
[11:19] <Fujitsu> minghua: Neither do most people, as far as I know.
[11:20] <persia> Should init scripts work with dash, or is bash fine?
[11:21] <minghua> Fujitsu: Oh.  I though all you western people got coats of arms.
[11:22] <minghua> Although I'm not quite sure Australian people are "western" or not.
[11:22] <persia> minghua: Only some people of European decent get them: their ancestors needed to have registered them.
[11:22] <persia> s/decent/descent/
[11:23]  * persia wants a grammar checker to go with the spell checker
[11:23] <minghua> persia: What about you?  You are of European descent, aren't you?
[11:24] <persia> minghua: I don't have one personally.
[11:27] <minghua> persia: Pity.  I think coat of arms is pretty and nice to have. :-)
[11:27] <persia> minghua: If you'd like one, register one :)
[11:28] <minghua> Nah.  I'm bad at drawing.
[11:30] <geser> persia: if possible init scripts should use /bin/sh
[11:31] <persia> geser: OK.  So #!/bin/bash at the top and no obvious bashisms is a cause for comment.  Thanks.
[11:34]  * persia finishes commenting on REVU, and encourages the 57 people with pending comments to get their packages in shape for the upcoming REVU day, as the relative lack of backlog likely ensures quick turnaround.
[11:34] <Hobbsee> hehe
[11:34] <Hobbsee> well done, persia!
[11:36] <LucidFox> Indeed.
[11:36]  * TheMuso uploads a long awaited updated merge before heading to bed.
[11:36] <LucidFox> TheMuso, I'm going to reupload avidemux
[11:36] <persia> LucidFox: So, about libwoodstox-java: does that need work still, or is it ready to be pushed?
[11:36] <TheMuso> LucidFox: Well I am not currently in a position to review it I'm sorry.
[11:36] <LucidFox> it's no longer needed in REVU
[11:37] <LucidFox> because the Debian version builds fine now
[11:37] <persia> LucidFox: Right.  I archived it: I'm talking about bug #127595
[11:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127595 in ubuntu "Please sync libwoodstox-java 4.0~svn20070930-2 from Debian unstable (contrib)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/127595
[11:37] <LucidFox> no work needed, it can be synced as is
[11:37] <geser> I've just acked it
[11:37] <LucidFox> yes, I saw, thanks
[11:38] <persia> nevermind.  There seems to have been other investigation since I last looked.  Thanks.
[11:42] <LucidFox> Speaking of these Java libraries, what may be the reason that LP is only trying to build libhiglayout-java for i386? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libhiglayout-java/1.0-2
[11:43] <persia> LucidFox: Is it not architecture: all ?
[11:43] <persia> More verbosely, architecture: all packages are only built for i386, as the results should work anywhere.
[11:43] <persia> (this is not always the case, but that's a different bug)
[11:43]  * TheMuso uploads and head to bed. Night folks.
[11:44] <persia> Good night TheMuso
[11:44] <geser> night TheMuso
[11:44] <Fujitsu> Night TheMuso.
[11:44] <LucidFox> Ah. That explains. It _is_ architecture: all.
[11:58] <LucidFox> dh_install can't rename files, can it?
[11:59] <persia> LucidFox: No.  Either use install directly in debian/rules, or rename them in build: and then install with dh_install (if you choose the latter, be sure to clean in clean:
[11:59] <persia> )
[12:00] <minghua> persia: I think it can.
[12:01] <persia> minghua: It says it can't in the manpage, and I don't see reference to rename in the changelog.  Could you point at an example package that uses dh_install to rename?
[12:03] <minghua> persia: I'm reading the man page too.  It seems you are right, I must mistook it as something else.
[12:05] <Kmos> there is a command in dpkg to check the .deb for not/stripped binaries?
[12:06] <StevenK> Unpack it and run file on ELF binaries
[12:06] <Ubulette_> grrr, damn router is crashing when I do an apt-get update in a chroot but not in the host os.
[12:06] <Kmos> StevenK: thanks
[12:07] <Kmos> I've this http://pastebin.com/d26727471 in Makefile.in, author should remove it ? or we need to make a patch to remove it.. ?
[12:08] <james_w> Kmos: doesn't lintian warn for that?
[12:08] <Kmos> james_w: nop
[12:08] <Kmos> lintian -iIv nop
[12:09] <Kmos> debian bug 438111
[12:09] <ubotu> Debian bug 438111 in tea "tea: not handling nostrip build option (policy 10.1)" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/438111
[12:09]  * persia prefers the use of dh_strip for stripping to create apport-useful ddebs, and hopes for a patch.
[12:09] <james_w> maybe it's stripped binaries in -dbg packages.
[12:09] <Kmos> it doesn't have -dbg and dh_strip it's used in rules
[12:09] <Kmos> it's for tea package :)
[12:10] <james_w> Kmos: is there an 'install' target as well? Does it depend on 'install-strip'?
[12:11] <james_w> or maybe an 'install-nostrip' or similar.
[12:12] <Kmos> not in rules
[12:12] <Kmos> http://pastebin.com/d6210a52d
[12:12] <Ubulette> persia, will you have time for prism ? last update was really tiny
[12:13] <james_w> no, in the upstream Makefile
[12:13] <Kmos> james_w: yes, there is.. http://pastebin.com/d26727471
[12:13] <Kmos> in Makefile.in
[12:13] <persia> Ubulette: actually, the last update makes prism take more time, as it needs to be tested.  I don't use most of those web applications, so I'm not a good person to test.  The packaging looks really nice: thanks for all the changes.
[12:14] <james_w> Kmos: yes, rules call make install, which I guess runs that install-strip target. Is there an install-nostrip target so you could change rules to run make install-nostrip?
[12:14]  * persia suggests someone web2.0'y should try prism from REVU & advocate it
[12:14] <Ubulette> btw, i'll drop some of my other packages, damn too difficult to obtain sponsoring in a realistic time. it often takes more than 1 or 2 upstream releases, meaning I worked for nothing.
[12:15] <Kmos> james_w: no, there isn't..
[12:15] <Kmos> install-nostrip not found
[12:16] <persia> Ubulette: Depends on the package.  Most upstreams aren't so fast.  Also, after having done a few, it takes fewer cycles through the queue.  To your credit, you're much more responsive to comments than many submitters.
[12:16] <Ubulette> i'm doing mostly mozilla stuff. packages are huge and complex, so i'm just loosing my time if nothing gets in
[12:18] <persia> Ubulette: Stuff may well get in.  Don't give up.  You just need a couple testers now, as the packaging is all clean.  Also, if you have a few packages you're working on, you might submit them in parallel: there's no reason that waiting for one should cause the others to wait.
[12:18] <james_w> Kmos: if there's no install-nostrip (or no-strip) or anything then you will have to patch the upstream Makefile.
[12:18] <Ubulette> I have to think about it a bit more but I think i'll drop the ball and keep only a few packages i really care about.
[12:19] <persia> Ubulette: Depends on upstream churn.  After working through a couple, if upstream isn't hyperactive, you'll likely find the burden lower.
[12:19] <Ubulette> persia, i'm not complaining about you, on the countrary, you helped me a lot for prism and I know you're busy. It's more a general feeling
[12:20] <Kmos> james_w: yeah.. i can also talk to author to remove it ? or add a install-nostrip ?
[12:20] <james_w> Kmos: the other alternative is to take advantage of the "test -z '$(STRIP)'" in the upstream target.
[12:20] <james_w> Kmos: yeah, asking for an install-nostrip target is possible.
[12:21] <Kmos> james_w: what about the test -z ? i can handle it in configure ?
[12:21] <james_w> Kmos: actually, I'm not sure that "test -z '$(STRIP)'" is much use, it only guards part of the command.
[12:22] <persia> Ubulette: Understood.  My personal guideline is have all the software I use packaged, just to get the benefits of the packaging.  I'm not so concerned about latest upstream, as long as it works for me.  If you've a bunch of software you're manually maintaining on your local system, you may as well push it.  If you're just packaging to be helpful, it's maybe better to limit your workload (unless you've lots of extra time & patience).
[12:23] <Kmos> james_w: the better is to patch Makefile.in and remove the install-strip: , right ?
[12:24] <james_w> Kmos: yes, I think so, but without seeing the whole Makefile.in it's hard to say what the exact fix is.
[12:24] <Kmos> james_w: i'll ask author to add install-nostrip to the next version :) and patch this one
[12:24] <Kmos> james_w: thanks for all
[12:25] <james_w> Kmos: it's also a good idea to patch the Makefile.am as well (if there is one), otherwise it can confuse someone who is building the package using autotools.
[12:25] <james_w> Kmos: no problem.
[12:26] <Kmos> james_w: the Makefile.am doesn't have anything about install-{no}strip
[12:30] <james_w> Kmos: interesting
[12:33] <Kmos> :)
[12:34] <Hobbsee> rexbron: any chance you could use a little thought, and grow up w.r.t your quit message?
[12:34]  * rexbron has been scolded
[12:35] <Hobbsee> rexbron: people do actually follow it, at times.
[12:35] <rexbron> O.o
[12:35] <Hobbsee> "i wonder what this does.  uh oh"
[12:35] <Hobbsee> (forums are having a lot of fun, with people doing the same thing)
[12:36] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, I don't like Kmos quit message atm
[12:36] <Hobbsee> !timebasedreleases
[12:36] <ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[12:36] <Fujitsu> bluekuja: That's what I said.
[12:37] <bluekuja> Fujitsu, it's an indirect offense versus us
[12:37] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: what is it?
[12:37] <Hobbsee> oh, the software that ubuntu wants thing?
[12:37] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, yes, about getdeb
[12:38] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: he can be deluded into thinking that, if he wishes.
[12:38] <geser> Hobbsee: "Ubuntu "Software you want" - www.GetDeb.net"
[12:38] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: it's arguably not going to break their systems
[12:38] <Hobbsee> OTOH, if you didn't want the software in ubuntu, you wouldn't be running it, so it sounds rather narrow minded.
[12:40] <bluekuja> yeah, fully agreed
[12:40] <Ubulette> bluekuja: hi. a new seamonkey is out. I've updated my package for the 3rd time, sadly, it's still not in. Sorry, but I'm sick of this. I think I will drop it.
[12:41] <Kmos> bluekuja :)
[12:42] <Fujitsu> Kmos: ........ why are you smiling?
[12:42] <bluekuja> Ubulette, no, don't say that... please
[12:42] <bluekuja> Ubulette, this is not a good period for me....I have tons of stuff to do
[12:42] <Kmos> Fujitsu: unless tell me directly, told Hobbsee that :)
[12:43] <Fujitsu> -EPARSE
[12:43] <Hobbsee> Kmos: try again.  that's not valid english.
[12:43] <bluekuja> Ubulette, plus it would be a nice thing to open a bug and ask for sponsorship there directly
[12:43] <bluekuja> Ubulette, so I can track things better
[12:43] <Kmos> Hobbsee: not my primary lang..
[12:43] <Hobbsee> Kmos: i realise, but please rephrase it so we can undersatnd you :)
[12:44] <Kmos> "Why not bluekuja told me directly and told Hobbsee that"
[12:44] <Hobbsee> Kmos: otherwise you may as well speak to us in portugese - it'll make the same amount of sense :)
[12:44] <Kmos> Hobbsee: I born in germany :) but I don't talk german
[12:44] <Hobbsee> Kmos: i saw from your wiki page.
[12:45] <Kmos> :)
[12:45] <bluekuja> Kmos, it doesnt matter to who I said that, the fact is your quit message is not nice and I see it as a bit offensive versus me and other developers
[12:45] <Ubulette> bluekuja, that was my plan once the 1st release is in. ie, pushing updates to revu. the 1st iteration is *huge*, you've probably discovered that the hard way. It's almost a fully new package, compared to iceape.
[12:46] <bluekuja> Ubulette, are you able to update the branch to the latest release?
[12:46] <Ubulette> bluekuja, asac proposed me to sponsor it but you wanted it to do it so i'm waiting
[12:46] <Kmos> bluekuja: why don't you private with me and told me that first? i also participate in ubuntu and debian, and it doesn't offense me.. so it's better to tell things to people directly
[12:47] <wraund> hai guys
[12:47] <wraund> how stable is 8.04 atm
[12:47] <bluekuja> Kmos, I usually prefer to say things publicly
[12:47] <wraund> im thinking about betaing
[12:47] <LucidFox> wraund> Very unstable, obviously
[12:47] <wraund> LucidFox: aww
[12:48] <LucidFox> But testing is welcome
[12:48] <Kmos> bluekuja: when they are part of public =)
[12:48] <Ubulette> bluekuja, i'd like you to complete with what you have, if it's possible for you.
[12:48] <wraund> LucidFox: is that 'oh dear god it doesnt boot' unstable, or 'damnit gtk failed' unstable
[12:48] <bluekuja> Ubulette, ok, new revisions to branch?
[12:48] <Hobbsee> Kmos: your quit message is public.  i fail to see how it is a private matter.
[12:48] <Kmos> bluekuja: but i'll change my irc quit =)
[12:48] <bluekuja> Ubulette, tarball alwais the same?
[12:48] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, exactly
[12:48] <Kmos> Hobbsee: right
[12:48] <Ubulette> bluekuja, not for 1.1.6. keep what you already have.
[12:49] <bluekuja> Ubulette, ok, I do it now
[12:49] <LucidFox> It should boot and mostly work, but expect small glitches and lack of polishment here and there
[12:49] <Ubulette> I'll push my 1.1.7 changes afterwards in my .dev branch
[12:49] <wraund> LucidFox: so no THAT unstable then
[12:49] <Fujitsu> It has been commented on a number of times while you were not here (obviously, because it's normally noticed once you leave).
[12:49] <LucidFox> Well, unstable as in "Debian unstable"
[12:49] <Fujitsu> wraund: There's no guarantee of that.
[12:49] <wraund> Fujitsu: i know im talking about atm
[12:49] <Fujitsu> It's still quite allowed to eat your filesystem for breakfast, for example.
[12:49] <wraund> ee
[12:50] <wraund> i like my filesystem :(
[12:50]  * Kmos irc quit msg changed
[12:51] <Hobbsee> wraund: if you have to ask how stable it is, you don't want to run it.
[12:52] <bluekuja> Kmos, you should move contributing to getdeb then stopping your "work" here
[12:52] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: oy.
[12:52] <bluekuja> Kmos, if your "idea of freedom" is satisfied there
[12:54] <Kmos> bluekuja: isn't a idea of freedom, but a way to participate
[12:55] <bluekuja> Kmos, actually it is. It seems you are *not* able to find the right freedom in our archive
[12:55] <bluekuja> Kmos, so you contribute to getdeb or whatever
[12:56] <bluekuja> Kmos, question here is: what's wrong with our policies?
[12:56] <bluekuja> Kmos, and why do you think there is no freedom in our archive?
[12:56] <Kmos> bluekuja: not wrong, i just don't have status to do what I want =)
[12:57] <Kmos> i don't said there isn't freedom in archive
[12:57] <Hobbsee> . o O { odd, that }
[12:57] <LucidFox> Lintian complains about the "Apps" section in debian/menu - where can I find the updated menu structure?
[12:57] <Kmos> what Lamego says, isn't my words
[12:57] <Fujitsu> LucidFox: s/Apps/Applications/
[12:57] <Kmos> LucidFox: http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20070704.164523.5cb7c52a.en.html
[12:58] <bluekuja> Kmos, yes, but if you state you contribute to it, you actually accept his idea
[12:58] <bluekuja> Kmos, and you follow his words in every point
[12:58] <Kmos> bluekuja: no. i just want to see my things published..
[12:58] <Hobbsee> LucidFox: i *think* what you're looking for is http://debian-news.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2869
[12:58] <Kmos> and that don't private me from participate in ubuntu/debian
[12:59] <Hobbsee> Kmos: and they have to be good enough to be published, like with writing books.
[12:59] <Hobbsee> s/private/prevent/ presumably.
[12:59] <Kmos> Hobbsee: that's not an good example, there are lot of published books that are really bad.
[13:00] <bluekuja> Kmos, sorry, but if your stuff cannot get published here, it means they are not good enough
[13:00] <Kmos> i'm not saying everything there is good quality
[13:00] <Hobbsee> Kmos: yeah, but any publisher with a reputation for quality will not publish rubbish.
[13:00] <Kmos> i just do my part and be happy with that
[13:00] <Hobbsee> Kmos: and ubuntu wants to have a reputation for quality.
[13:01] <Kmos> bluekuja: if you think my stuff is rubbish.. that's your point of view.
[13:01] <bluekuja> Kmos, it seems I'm not the only one...
[13:01] <Hobbsee> Kmos: whether your packages fit policy or not is not subjective, contrary to what you may think.
[13:02] <Hobbsee> Kmos: it is objective.  see debian policy, and the debian packages guide, and make your packages fit that.
[13:02] <Kmos> Hobbsee: i try my best..
[13:02] <james_w> I don' think that's the only reason why the work is not in Ubuntu.
[13:03] <bluekuja> Ubulette, started building
[13:03] <james_w> consider the reasons people give why the contribute to Ubuntu rather than Debian.
[13:03] <Hobbsee> Kmos: can i suggest that you actually retain information, if you want to try your best?
[13:03] <Hobbsee> Kmos: your client should log, if you need to re-read any part of it.
[13:03] <james_w> and as the policies are nearly identical they are not technical reasons of package quality
[13:04] <bluekuja> Ubulette, gonna check some minor stuff, and then it's ready
[13:04] <Hobbsee> james_w: unfortunately, there is a base standard for debian/ubuntu packages.  if packages consistently do not make this standard, then they will not be accepted in - whether from one person, or from many.  This is not comprimisable.
[13:05] <james_w> Hobbsee: I don't disagree. I'm just saying that it's not the only reason why someone would choose to contribute elsewhere.
[13:05] <Hobbsee> james_w: oh, true.  i wasnt' sure if you were disagreeing or not, my statement was partly to kmos too.
[13:06] <Kmos> james_w: the problem here is me =)
[13:06] <james_w> Hobbsee: oh no, I totally agree that we need minimum levels of quality, sorry for not being clear.
[13:06] <Hobbsee> james_w: we have lots of trouble with new packages and licences too - and stuff will get repeatedly thrown back, usuallyf rom the same people.
[13:06] <Kmos> Hobbsee: if you see my progress in the last weeks, you can see I've retained more "information" :)
[13:06] <Hobbsee> Kmos: hurrah!
[13:06] <Hobbsee> Kmos: keep at it.
[13:07] <Kmos> Hobbsee: i'm trying..
[13:10] <Ubulette> bluekuja, good.
[13:11] <LucidFox> I've uploaded a new package to REVU: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=inkblot
[13:13] <frenchy> Hi MOTUs ... you guys don't deal with troubleshooting translation issues in my package, do you?  Sorry if this seems like an "ask to ask".
[13:13] <asisak> frenchy: I guess we deal.
[13:13] <asisak> !ask | frenchy
[13:13] <ubotu> frenchy: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[13:15] <frenchy> I am upstream and am having some issues with the German translation that someone has done for me.
[13:15] <frenchy> The translation "according to him" doesn't work.
[13:15] <frenchy> The mo file get installed.
[13:15] <LucidFox> Also reuploaded an updated package: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux . There are known Lintian warnings, I didn't fix them to reduce the delta with debian-multimedia.org, and I can explain them if needed.
[13:16] <frenchy> Is there anything else that I need to check>
[13:16] <frenchy> ?
[13:17] <LucidFox> frenchy> What package?
[13:18] <frenchy> Me TV (me-tv), it's on REVU so not an official one, yet.
[13:18] <frenchy> The version up there does not have the translations in it.
[13:19] <frenchy> I wanted to know if it's something I'm doing wrong before I promoted it.
[13:19] <LucidFox> Hmm, I'll build and check.
[13:20] <frenchy> If I'm off topic here then let me know.  This channel has always provided an excellent service for me.
[13:20] <frenchy> LucidFox:  Ummm ... I can upload a newer version if you want. The version up there does not have the translations in it.
[13:21] <LucidFox> Well, I'm not a MOTU, so my word hardly matters :)
[13:22] <frenchy> LucidFox: That's ok, this is a question about packaging that anyone can answer.  Are you German?
[13:27] <LucidFox> No, Russian, but I could run it with a German locale
[13:27] <frenchy> Ta,  excuse my noobness but how do you do that?
[13:28] <james_w> frenchy: a good debugging aid may be to set a german locale and then strace your program as you start it.
[13:29] <frenchy> Don't worry, that was a stupid question that I can read about myself.
[13:29] <frenchy> I just didn't know that it was an easy thing to do.
[13:29] <james_w> frenchy: I think 'LANG=de program' will work.
[13:30] <frenchy> james_w:  Oh yeah, on the command line before I run it.  Ok ta, never thought of that.
[13:31] <azeem> hrm, if I have a box running dapper, can I directly update it to gutsy?
[13:31] <james_w> frenchy: and the strace would show what message catalogs it is trying to open, and so may show that is is looking for them in a different place than you would expect, or something like that.
[13:33] <frenchy> james_w: Ok, will try that, thank you for your time.  I should be good-to-go from here.  Excellent work guys.
[13:33] <james_w> frenchy: good luck.
[13:35] <Hobbsee> azeem: if you want do deal with some dep changes, you can upgrade directly, yes. i'ts not supported though
[13:35] <Hobbsee> azeem: as in, you'll have to transition by hand
[13:35] <azeem> ok
[13:35] <azeem> thx
[13:38] <zul> morning
[13:44] <LucidFox> So, "XbuildY" won't prevent the auto-syncer from syncing, but "XubuntuY" will?
[13:45] <Kmos> LucidFox: yes
[14:08] <cyberix> What is get-orig-source expected to do?
[14:09] <cyberix> Is there a proper guide or even definition for it available somewhere?
[14:09] <LucidFox> fetch the upstream tarball from the Internet and repack it if necessary
[14:09] <norsetto> cyberix: get and prepare the upstream tarball
[14:09] <cyberix> Who is supposed to run it and when?
[14:10] <norsetto> cyberix: maintainer/sponsor when preparing an update and some automated tools when running some checks
[14:11] <cyberix> Is it common to "just wget" a tar ball with that?
[14:12] <cyberix> and rename it
[14:12] <norsetto> cyberix: your mileage vary, from just that to perform md5sum checks and repackaging
[14:12] <norsetto> cyberix: in debian they may also use it to dfsg a package
[14:13] <cyberix> I need to repackage a zip. I'm just not sure were the zip should exist before repackaging.
[14:13] <cyberix> Then you tell me I should get it from Internet.
[14:13] <cyberix> And I'm not sure, if that makes sense
[14:14] <norsetto> cyberix: well, it can indeed be used to repackage a zip
[14:15] <wraund> Hobbsee: i do want to run a version on my laptop, stable or unstable. i just want my data to be preserved so i like to know what level of 'unstable' it is
[14:15] <wraund> very or little
[14:15] <cyberix> I could use wget to download the zip, but then I'd have to build-depend on wget, right?
[14:16] <cyberix> I should probably also check md5sum of the downloaded package, so the archive cannot be changed to something else.
[14:16] <Lounge> i have created a sensors-applet_1.7.12+dfsg.deb with nvidia support for i386, can i upload it somewhere?
[14:16] <white> what's the Easy Hosting Control Panel from ubuntu?
[14:17] <frenchy> james_w: Ok I found numerous little issues that have gotten me so much closer.  It's now trying to load the me-tv.mo but from /usr/local/share/... rather than /usr/share/....  Is this something that I need do fix when calling ./autogen.sh
[14:18] <Lounge> anyone know where i can upload this package?
[14:20] <norsetto> Lounge: we are at 1.8.2-1 in hardy
[14:20] <RainCT> Lounge: Launchpad PPA
[14:20] <Lounge> RainCT: aww thnx
[14:22] <james_w> frenchy: does it look in /usr/share/ after /usr/local/share/ ?
[14:23] <frenchy> james_w: Nope.
[14:23] <james_w> hmm.
[14:23] <frenchy> james_w: Not for the me-tv.mo.
[14:23] <james_w> frenchy: can you put the strace log on a pastebin?
[14:23] <james_w> frenchy: 'strace -o logfile' if you don't have one already.
[14:23] <frenchy> james_w: I think that it might have something to do with PACKAGE_LOCALE_DIR.
[14:24] <frenchy> james_w: And not setting it.
[14:26] <james_w> frenchy: are you using gettext?
[14:26] <frenchy> james_w: It's is set to /usr/local/share/locale ... I've just got to work out where to set it.  Sorry, I should've checked this before bothering you again.  Yes gettext.
[14:26] <james_w> I would have thought that would take care of this.
[14:26] <cyberix> How do I check md5sum from a Makefile? Do I have to create a separate script to do that? What should I do, if the checking fails?
[14:27] <james_w> frenchy: where is  PACKAGE_LOCALE_DIR used? In your .c files somewhere?
[14:27] <norsetto> rainct: don't you have a pbuilder !?
[14:27] <frenchy> james_w: In the main.cc .. bindtextdomain (GETTEXT_PACKAGE, PACKAGE_LOCALE_DIR);
[14:28] <RainCT> norsetto: of course I do, why?
[14:28] <james_w> frenchy: and you use autotools?
[14:28] <norsetto> RainCT: bug 161760 ?
[14:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 161760 in vips "Please sync vips 7.12.5-2 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161760
[14:28] <frenchy> james_w: Yes.
[14:29] <james_w> frenchy: I would look at autotools then. It may be an argument missing from the ./configure call or similar.
[14:29] <james_w> frenchy: also how is the german translation installed? (or how was it installed on your machine)?
[14:31] <RainCT> norsetto: ahh. Kmos remembered me about that bug as vips is a build depdendency for another package I think, and he got it build first
[14:32] <RainCT> norsetto: also builds fine here
[14:32] <frenchy> james_w: I'm ashamed to admit, I don't know.  I'm looking now.  It was done by Anjuta.
[14:32] <norsetto> rainct: ok
[14:36] <james_w> frenchy: is the binary in /usr/local/bin or /usr/bin?
[14:37] <frenchy> /usr/bin
[14:38] <james_w> frenchy: that's odd then.
[14:39] <Hobbsee> wraund: one could never guarentee that all data will be safe, using mostly-untested software
[14:42] <apachelogger> persia: Why not? All of our official desktops support freedesktop desktop files, plus https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Appendix -> menu.ex is used to add your package to the Debian menu. Ubuntu does not use Debian menu files but uses the [WWW] freedesktop.org standard [WWW] .desktop files.
[14:47] <Kmos> http://sockmel.bononia.it/~zack/homepage-field/
[14:47] <Kmos> nice one
[14:51] <frenchy> james_w: Once again I thank you for your help.  It has become clear to me that this is really an upstream issue that I need to deal with.  And it is "I" that needs to get me some education.
[14:53] <james_w> frenchy: pas de problème
[14:55] <norsetto> apachelogger: some users (for instance Fluxbox) do not use GDE or KDE and rely on the Debian menu to launch desktop applications
[14:57] <cyberix> Were should I place the archive I created with get-orig-source?
[14:57] <cyberix> Were should get-orig-source place it?
[14:57] <apachelogger> norsetto: yeah, but should I treat it as necessary as a desktop file in terms of advocacy?
[14:57] <apachelogger> i.e. I'd not advocate a package without desktop file but would without a menu file
[14:58] <norsetto> apachelogger: yes, I know what you mean and I was of your idea, until I too discovered that there are users which rely on the Debian menu indeed
[14:59] <norsetto> apachelogger: I must also plead guilty since in my new packages I did  not include a menu myself until I passed them over to Debian ....
[15:00]  * apachelogger is wondering how other distros solve that problem
[15:00] <norsetto> apachelogger: I read it somewhere that another distro is thinking to adopt the debian Menu too (forgot which one though)
[15:01] <apachelogger> hm
[15:01]  * norsetto cannot be beaten when vagueness is concerned
[15:02] <apachelogger> anyway, a guideline on this would be good. do we have to insist on the debian menu? do we not have to, but should we suggest to include it? should we just not care?
[15:03] <norsetto> apachelogger: persia proposed some guidelines for discussion not long ago, let me fecth a link, it should be there
[15:04] <Kmos> norsetto: i set you the owner of gelemental ITP on debian =)
[15:05] <norsetto> kmos: oh, don't worry, unless something unexpected happens will be in debichem soon, but thx anyway
[15:05] <Kmos> :)
[15:07] <norsetto> apachelogger: here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews
[15:08] <apachelogger> norsetto: thanks
[15:08] <jdong> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x264/1:0.svn20070930-0.0ubuntu2/+build/459258
[15:08] <jdong> what does failed to upload mean?
[15:10] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:10]  * apachelogger is wondering how to dput when he can't access the .changes on revu
[15:11] <RainCT> apachelogger: with the .dsc
[15:11] <apachelogger> RainCT: one can do that? Oo
[15:12] <RainCT> apachelogger: of course, or at least with dget it works
[15:12] <apachelogger> well, with get it works
[15:12] <apachelogger> but how to upload to new queue after revuing?
[15:12] <RainCT> what do you mean?
[15:12] <apachelogger> documenation on post-becoming motu is kinda bad -.-
[15:12] <RainCT> ah ok
[15:13] <bluekuja> apachelogger, why do you ask that?
[15:13] <bluekuja> apachelogger, you should debuild the package on your own
[15:13] <bddebian> dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
[15:13] <bluekuja> bddebian, exactly
[15:13] <bddebian> dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -k<my key> :-)
[15:13] <bluekuja> apachelogger, dpkg-source the package and debuild it
[15:13] <bluekuja> you don't need REVU .changes
[15:14] <apachelogger> ha!
[15:14] <apachelogger> there we go
[15:14] <apachelogger> thanks :)
[15:14] <bluekuja> apachelogger, and anyway that's a security thing
[15:14] <Hobbsee> RainCT: erm.  down with the crack pipe.
[15:14] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: you need the .changes file to upload
[15:14] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: yeah, i dont think it exists.
[15:14] <apachelogger> ok, now it's getting confusing -.-
[15:15] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: I have to create the .changes, that's right, isn't it?
[15:15] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: yes
[15:15] <bluekuja> apachelogger, debuild does that for you..
[15:15] <apachelogger> ok
[15:15] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: the .changes will let you dput it anywhere
[15:15] <bluekuja> apachelogger, don't do a binary upload
[15:15] <apachelogger> yeah, true, just wanted to get that right :)
[15:15] <bluekuja> apachelogger, source only for Ubuntu
[15:16] <bluekuja> apachelogger, you check that in the .changes anyway
[15:16] <Hobbsee> ah, a much better quit message
[15:16] <bluekuja> ahah
[15:16] <bluekuja> apachelogger, for merges remember to use -v
[15:17] <bluekuja> apachelogger, if noone told that you already
[15:17] <bluekuja> *to
[15:19] <bddebian> Damn the games team is frustrating :-(
[15:19] <bluekuja> bddebian, y?
[15:20] <bddebian> It's always so quiet :-(
[15:20] <bluekuja> oh :/
[15:23] <norsetto> apachelogger: you remember bug 161835 ?
[15:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 161835 in contactsmenu "[Package Removal Request] contactsmenu should be removed from hardy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161835
[15:23] <apachelogger> norsetto: ah, yes
[15:25] <apachelogger> transitional or, or no transitional, that is the question
[15:25] <apachelogger> norsetto: what do you think, is it worth having a transitional package?
[15:25] <norsetto> apachelogger: I think a transitional would be a good idea
[15:26] <apachelogger> so let's go with that
[15:26] <apachelogger> norsetto: do I have to create such a thingy?
[15:26] <norsetto> apachelogger: yes, it should be a binary package of the new source package
[15:27]  * apachelogger adds that to this todo
[15:34] <norsetto> rainct: some people are actually offended if you use wtf in a email to a mailing list (just warning you if you get some nasty email about it)
[15:48] <RainCT> norsetto: with wth too? :P
[15:48] <norsetto> rainct: quien sabe ...
[15:49] <RainCT> heh
[15:53] <soren> norsetto: The get offended by you almost saying fuck? Seriously?
[15:53] <soren> norsetto: s/The/They/
[15:53] <norsetto> soren: moralists are one of the worst species on earth my friend ...
[15:54] <Hobbsee> soren: in some cases :P
[15:54] <soren> I'll *never* understand people.
[15:54]  * Hobbsee doesn't like mass expletives, where expletives are every second or third word, for eg.
[15:54] <Hobbsee> don't you have a bigger vocabularly than that?
[15:54] <soren> Hobbsee: Agreed, but still..
[15:54] <Hobbsee> yeah true.
[15:55] <soren> Hobbsee: This one pissed me off, though: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2007-October/000881.html
[15:56] <james_w> hi jelmer.
[15:56] <apachelogger> norsetto: http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/152627 now upload?
[15:56] <Hobbsee> soren: yeah, that's kinda classy
[15:56] <RainCT> soren: lol
[15:57] <Hobbsee> soren: did you write back "what, you mean to say that you *want* ubuntu to have sex with you?" <end of mail>
[15:57] <soren> Hobbsee: No, I was having a good day :)
[15:57] <Hobbsee> soren: bonus points if you can manage to embarrass the guy somehow in the process.
[15:57] <RainCT> what an idiot..
[15:57] <apachelogger> hrrhrr
[15:57] <Hobbsee> soren: good day or not, that's still what you should reply :)
[15:58] <soren> fwiw, this is my response: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2007-October/000889.html
[15:58] <Hobbsee> heh :)
[15:59] <Hobbsee> soren: sounds like angrykeyboarder.
[15:59] <soren> Hobbsee: Gah..
[16:00] <Hobbsee> hehe
[16:00] <Hobbsee> anger management problems, only solved by the application of a large brick.
[16:00] <soren> Hobbsee: Anyone who excuses their being angry and offensive by saying that they've done it before...
[16:00] <Hobbsee> soren: yeah well.
[16:01] <Hobbsee> soren: this of course generalises to the "i have $mental illness, so should not be held accountable", which i then call buillshit on, and get in trouble for doing.
[16:01] <Hobbsee> -i
[16:01] <soren> Hobbsee: I think I started writing a reply to him 10 times, but never could strike a good balance between telling him off and setting a good example in the process, so I gave up.
[16:01] <Hobbsee> heh
[16:02] <ScottK> Personally, I think dendrobates was far to accomodating with him
[16:02] <ScottK> Good morning all.
[16:02] <Hobbsee> morning ScottK
[16:03]  * ScottK would have just unsubbed him and said please come only if you get some manners.
[16:03] <soren> We decided that he must have learned English for listening to ganster rap.
[16:03]  * ScottK isn't buying that one.
[16:03] <soren> s/for/by/
[16:03] <soren> wtf is wrong with my English today?
[16:03] <ScottK> Personally, I think appropriate language is very situational.
[16:03] <Hobbsee> heh
[16:04] <Hobbsee> well, of course
[16:04]  * ScottK used to actually be a sailor and still swears like one where it's appropriate.
[16:04] <zul> ScottK: dont you mean all the time?
[16:04] <ScottK> No.  Not quite.
[16:04] <Hobbsee> there doesn't seem to be an equivalent for "dude...that's fucked" in politer terms.
[16:05] <Hobbsee> on crack doesn't do it.
[16:05] <Hobbsee> and nothing else comes close
[16:05] <zul> Hobbsee: "dude...that's quite silly"
[16:05] <ScottK> On Thursday, someone showed me this image: http://tinyurl.com/6kuoz and said they saw it and thought of me.
[16:06]  * ScottK already has a coffee mug with that on it.
[16:06] <Hobbsee> hahahaha :D
[16:06]  * Hobbsee prefers the one on seveas' wall, though
[16:06] <ScottK> ?
[16:07] <zul> ScottK: seen that before
[16:07] <Hobbsee> http://hobbsee.mailbolt.com/helpdeskwarning.png
[16:08] <zul> Hobbsee: lol
[16:12] <mok0> Hobbsee: I thought this was a friendly forum.
[16:13] <Hobbsee> mok0: it's not a forum.  this is irc.
[16:13] <mok0> Hobbsee: I thought this was a friendly IRC channel
[16:13] <Hobbsee> mok0: but sure, this is a friendly irc channel :)
[16:14] <mok0> Hobbsee: Phew. I was afraid it was a help desk
[16:14] <man-di> mok0: You havent been in an unfriendly irc channel yet, do you?
[16:14] <mok0> man-di: Not in #ubuntu-*
[16:16] <LucidFox> So, when is the next REVU day that persia was talking about?
[16:17] <ScottK> LucidFox: Generally Mondays.
[16:17] <LucidFox> Ah.
[16:17] <norsetto> apachelogger: I would keep the Conflicts and Replaces, you can use (<< ${source:Version}) for the Conflicts
[16:21] <ScottK> norsetto: Although binary version is preferred (for Debian anyway - so we may as well use it).
[16:23] <norsetto> scottk: isn't that for any to any? In this case is any to all
[16:24] <ScottK> The binary conflicts is preferred in Debian to be compatible with their bin NMU process.  AFAIK it doesn't matter arch all/any.
[16:26] <apachelogger> so
[16:26] <apachelogger> norsetto: ScottK: what to do?
[16:26] <norsetto> apachelogger: its always confusing me, that why I use http://wiki.debian.org/binNMU when in doubt. But if scottk says its ok with binary than its ok  with binary
[16:27] <ScottK> apachelogger: For Ubuntu, the source version conlicts is fine (although I think the latest lintian will whine).
[16:27]  * apachelogger will use binary then :)
[16:28] <ScottK> apachelogger: norsetto is right.  For arch any -> all you should use source.
[16:28] <ScottK> norsetto: Good resource that one.  Thanks for pointing it out.
[16:29] <apachelogger> meh
[16:29] <ScottK> apachelogger: Your any -> all case is explicitly  addressed on that page.  Sorry for leading your astray.
[16:30] <apachelogger> can happen :)
[16:31] <apachelogger> norsetto: http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/152688
[16:32] <norsetto> apachelogger: you don't need to version the Replaces
[16:34]  * apachelogger should have gone to bed earlier -.-
[16:34] <Hobbsee> ich auch.
[16:35] <apachelogger> hehe :)
[16:35] <man-di> Hobbsee must be really tired, she starts speaking german...
[16:35] <apachelogger> norsetto: http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/152691
[16:35] <Hobbsee> man-di: some phrases i find faster in german than i do in english
[16:35] <geser> mv Hobbsee /dev/bed && sleep 8h
[16:36] <Hobbsee> hehe
[16:36] <apachelogger> 8h that's about the amount I got after 2 days :P
[16:37]  * Nafallo has been in bed all day.
[16:39] <norsetto> apachelogger: seems like you are missing a change in the changelog :-)
[16:40] <apachelogger> oh
[16:40] <apachelogger> typo
[16:41] <apachelogger> norsetto: but what change is missing?
[16:41] <norsetto> apachelogger: you mean, the homepage change is covered by that?
[16:41] <apachelogger> norsetto: * Adaption to latest packaging standards
[16:42] <norsetto> apachelogger: yes, that for you covers the homepage change? (its adaptation by the way)
[16:43] <apachelogger> yes, that is intent to cover that change as well .... doesn't adaptation and adaption mean kinda the same?
[16:44] <apachelogger> ScottK: got any comments on adaptation vs. adaption?
[16:45] <ScottK> AFAIK adaption is not an English word.
[16:45] <apachelogger> hm
[16:45] <ScottK> So if it is, it's pretty obscure to an American English speaker.
[16:45] <apachelogger> maybe it's en_gb
[16:45]  * apachelogger changes to adaptation
[16:46] <ScottK> Could be.  I do have a fair amount of experience with that too (although I'm certainly not a native speaker), so I'd expect to have known it if it was.  Dunno.
[16:48] <apachelogger> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/adaptation
[16:48] <apachelogger> (uncountable) The quality of being adapted; adaption; adjustment.
[16:49] <apachelogger> well
[16:49] <apachelogger> norsetto: you think I should mention the homepage change seperately?
[16:50] <norsetto> apachelogger: I think it would be clearer, yes
[16:51] <apachelogger> okay
[16:54] <apachelogger> norsetto: http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/152726
[16:56] <norsetto> apachelogger: is this the thing that pops up in my tray, even though its disabled, whenever I open kontact?
[17:00] <apachelogger> norsetto: nope, this is an applet on its own, so it doesn't end up in the tray
[17:01] <norsetto> apachelogger: good, because I hate that little thing with all my heart
[17:01] <apachelogger> norsetto: maybe you should make a screenshot of that thing ;-)
[17:02] <norsetto> apachelogger: KOrganizer reminder daemon
[17:02] <apachelogger> oh
[17:02]  * apachelogger is wondering how to deactivate that thing for good
[17:04]  * norsetto suggests a kalashnikov
[17:04] <apachelogger> probably ;-)
[17:05] <apachelogger> well, I think I turned it off somehow
[17:05] <apachelogger> can't check though, I'm running kde4 and I'm afraid it might break if I log out ^_^
[17:06] <apachelogger> norsetto: anyway, shall I upload the changes? or do the archvie admins first have to remove contactsmenu?
[17:06] <norsetto> apachelogger: no idea
[17:07] <apachelogger> not good
[17:07] <norsetto> apachelogger: logic would say you can upload and ask for removal at the same time, but don't take my words as gospel
[17:08] <apachelogger> well, maybe everything will explode because then are technically two source packages which generate kicker-contactsmenu
[17:08] <apachelogger> ScottK: do you know how to do it?
[17:08]  * ScottK reads the backscroll
[17:12] <ScottK> So the issue is you're moving a binary package from being provided by one source package to another, right?
[17:12] <ScottK> apachelogger: ^^^
[17:12] <apachelogger> ScottK: bug 161835
[17:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 161835 in contactsmenu "[Package Removal Request] contactsmenu should be removed from hardy" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161835
[17:13] <apachelogger> ScottK: the binary is a transitional package since contactsmenu should be removed
[17:14]  * ScottK reads
[17:18] <ScottK> apachelogger and norsetto: My suggestion is upload the new package and then submit the removal request to the archive once the new package is built.
[17:18] <apachelogger> k
[17:18]  * apachelogger testbuilds
[17:19] <norsetto> scottk: thx
[17:20] <ScottK> BTW, I don't see support on the referenced KDE page that this replaces contactsmenu.
[17:23] <apachelogger> ScottK: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Khalkhi+framework?content=54450
[17:23] <apachelogger> Formerly known as Contacts framework:
[17:23] <apachelogger> only that it wasn't really a framework ;-)
[17:23] <ScottK> apachelogger: OK.  Thanks.
[18:07] <\sh> moins
[18:08] <ScottK> Good evening \sh
[18:10] <\sh> hey ScottK
[18:12] <ScottK> norsetto: For conky on DaD you (or someone) wrote "No need to sync."  Wouldn't it be better to sync now and get Debian and Ubuntu in agreement?
[18:15] <Lutin> ScottK: doesn't seem to be a sync btw
[18:15] <ScottK> Lutin: OK.  I didn't look, just reacting to the comment.
[18:16] <ScottK> It would be nice if people who leave comments would say who left them.
[18:16] <Lutin> yeah, weird comment, 'cause there are many changes in debian worth merging
[18:17]  * ScottK chooses to blame kmos
[18:19] <norsetto> ScottK, lutin: yes, its my comment
[18:19] <ScottK> norsetto: It does seem an odd comment now (might have made sense late in Gutsy).
[18:20] <norsetto> ScottK, lutin: I'm waiting for the new version which is being packaged right now
[18:20] <Lutin> norsetto: ok
[18:20] <ScottK> Ah.  I think that'd be a better comment.
[18:20] <norsetto> ScottK: why strange? There is nothing in the debian package worth ahaving, and much we don't want
[18:21] <norsetto> ScottK: and yes, most probably that comment date back from gutsy
[18:22] <ScottK> Generally I think it's better to merge and make the best of it than not, but I think waiting for a new version you know is coming makes a lot of sense.
[18:23] <norsetto> ScottK: its the same for rutilt, right now I'm waiting for debian to push the new revision
[18:23] <ScottK> K
[18:28] <txwikinger> What should be done with this bug #115589 ?
[18:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 115589 in inkscape "inkscape pyxml missing python-xml " [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115589
[18:41] <norsetto> txwikinger: what stevenk said makes much sense to me. AFAICS, this is not a plug-in or extension, its a "package that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations"
[18:45] <txwikinger> stevenk?
[18:47] <txwikinger> norsetto: So it should be on the depends list?
[18:48] <norsetto> txwikinger: IMHO it should be a reccomend (not knowing the application, from what I read in the bug report)
[18:49] <norsetto> txwikinger: having said that, if debian goes for a suggest I think we should follow, don't think a delta for this would be justified
[18:50] <txwikinger> So basically we leave it like it is and follow debian
[18:50] <norsetto> txwikinger: I would actually add something to the bug report in the BTS
[18:51] <james_w> I think providing a patch to the Debian bug to at least change the message to point to 'python-xml' would be good.
[18:53] <ScottK> What's the problem with recommends?
[18:53] <txwikinger> they don't get automatically installed
[18:53] <txwikinger> at least that's how I understand the discussion
[18:54] <ScottK> Not historically, but they do now in Debian and will for Hardy (I think) in Ubuntu.
[18:54] <norsetto> ScottK: yes
[18:55] <txwikinger> So this is superfluous in hardy anyway?
[18:55] <dsop> hmm revu nows my email, because i uploaded a package, but i didnt get a password, nor a message to decrypt to get my password.
[18:55] <norsetto> ScottK: it seems to me that the DD is more afraid to violate the policy than anything else
[18:56] <james_w> txwikinger: no, because they are suggests, that is the issue.
[18:56]  * txwikinger doesn't understand which policy is violated
[18:56] <norsetto> txwikinger: the debian policy
[18:56] <txwikinger> well what exactly
[18:56] <james_w> and no policy is violated, as it is not clear which category a particular package falls in to.
[18:57] <norsetto> txwikinger: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#7.2
[18:59] <txwikinger> norsetto: I understand.. but then it should be recommends
[19:00] <ScottK> I'd say make it recommends and don't worry.
[19:09] <DaveMorris> is there a page somewhere explaining what watch files are and what I need to do for it?
[19:17] <bddebian> DaveMorris: They are to alert you of new upstream releases
[19:22] <DaveMorris> and how do you create them?
[19:24] <ScottK> DaveMorris: man uscan
[19:24] <DaveMorris> thanks
[19:44] <DaveMorris> how can I get cdbs to symlink /usr/share/doc/libccptest-dev to /usr/share/doc/libcpptest0 ?
[19:45] <bddebian> package.links
[19:45] <DaveMorris> what man page can I read about it in as well?
[19:45] <bddebian> dh_link
[19:45] <DaveMorris> thanks
[19:46] <bddebian> NP
[20:10] <DaveMorris> how can I override the installation of documents whilst using cdbs?
[20:16] <bddebian> DaveMorris: Override how?
[20:17] <DaveMorris> I don't wanna install the docs for my -dev package, instead symlink to the lib it depends on
[20:26] <bddebian> DaveMorris: Do you have seperate .install files for the binary packages?
[20:34] <DaveMorris> yes
[20:42] <bddebian> DaveMorris: Then you should be able to just be specific about what you install in each package
[20:42] <pwnguin> I've got a question about what Ubuntu/Debian includes in the repos
[20:43] <pwnguin> is it a good idea to bring in software that updates like once a month?
[20:43] <slangasek> pwnguin: there's nothing wrong with frequent updates, as long as prior versions are supportable?
[20:44] <pwnguin> usually these sorts of packages are very new
[20:44] <pwnguin> im not sure what supportable entails
[20:44] <ScottK> pwnguin: The downside is that there are only so many sponsors around and so everytime you ask for a new upstream release to be sponsored, that's something else that doesn't get sponsored.
[20:45] <slangasek> well, obviously once it's in a release (Debian or Ubuntu), you don't get to update to a whole new upstream version once a month
[20:45] <pwnguin> i think GIMP -rc3 demonstrated that there's always users who want the newest and greatest
[20:46] <pwnguin> ScottK: to me it sounds like you could just recruit upstream to handle it.
[20:46] <ScottK> pwnguin: I think gimp rc3 demonstrated lots of users don't understand how distributions work.
[20:47] <ScottK> If they have upload rights for the distro, sure.
[20:47] <pwnguin> hmm
[20:47] <pwnguin> debian has a reputation for being pretty slow about getting new members
[20:48] <pwnguin> i donno how true it is, but the upstream in question stated this as well
[20:48] <ScottK> It's true.  OTOH, I've had no trouble getting my stuff I'm upstream for sponsored in Debian.
[20:48] <ScottK> YMMV.  bddebian has lots of trouble.
[20:49] <pwnguin> heh
[20:50] <bddebian> That's just because they love me
[20:51] <pwnguin> right now im suggesting a middle route. their host is having troubles, so im thinking set up a team ppa to host the building and distribution
[20:52]  * ScottK suggests bddebian pay attention to what vorlon is telling him.
[20:52] <pwnguin> right now they build and host locally
[20:55] <pwnguin> apparently they're popular enough that torrents are used to lighten the load
[20:55] <bddebian> ScottK: In what regard?
[20:56] <ScottK> bddebian: Generally.  I think he's guiding you in a good direction.
[20:57] <pwnguin> its an interesting challenge for distributions. the software's popular, but costs distributions a lot of effort
[20:57] <bddebian> ScottK: Guiding me to what?
[20:58] <bddebian> I have to go get my daughter
[20:58] <ScottK> See you.
[20:58]  * ScottK has to go too.  We can discuss later.
[21:09] <dsop> can somebody help me out. my email address is registered at the revu system, but i never got a password. When i try to recover the password there is no string to decrypt displayed.
[21:09] <somerville32> dsop, Than your key hasn't been synced
[21:09] <ScottK> dsop: Have you uploaded anything?
[21:10] <dsop> somerville32: an admin synced i manually i think, because i can upload ,etc
[21:10] <somerville32> dsop, Did you upload anything yet?
[21:10] <dsop> ScottK: yes, i uploaded a package
[21:10] <dsop> and it was shown on the page
[21:10] <dsop> so everything worked fine
[21:16] <dsop> somerville32: yes, i uploaded one and it worked perfectly
[21:16] <somerville32> dsop, Are you sure you're giving the correct e-mail address?
[21:25] <dsop> somerville32: yes
[21:26] <somerville32> dsop, You'll have to talk to a REVU admin then
[21:35] <dsop> somerville32: okay, thank you for your help
[21:42] <mok0> ScottK; Dictionary lists the word as another term for Adaptation
[21:44] <mok0> ScottK: Oops. Was scrolled back several hours...
[21:44] <wraund> just tried to sync my gpg keys but it jams on a server, anyone else having this?
[21:44] <wraund> im using seahorse btw
[21:46]  * RainCT raises the hand
[22:26]  * emgent heya
[23:38] <DaveMorris> hmm, with cdbs how can I get it to run the clean target before reversing the patches?
[23:51] <azeem> DaveMorris: sounds difficult, why do you need that?
[23:51] <DaveMorris> I patched the makefile to have a clean docs
[23:52] <DaveMorris> but the patch is removed before the make clean
[23:52] <DaveMorris> I guess I'll have to do the clean commands in the rules file