[00:03] infinitycircuit: The hpet ones are not that important to me (got a working bios for that eventually after much proding of gigabyte) [00:04] h3sp4wn, yeah it all depends on your hardware. the hpet patches give me huge power savings on my thinkpad x40 [00:05] infinitycircuit: interesting I did notice on my thinkpad X31 that the fan works properly with 2.6.24 [00:06] i.e not just on all the time when it doesn't need to be [00:21] wtf? Choosing a theme doesn't change my metacity theme. [00:22] I select any theme, and it immediately jumps to "custom" because it's not using the right Metacity theme. [00:43] !roadmap [00:43] Sorry, I don't know anything about roadmap - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [00:43] hrm [00:43] !kernel [00:43] The core of the Ubuntu Operating System is the Linux kernel: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel - You shouldn't have to compile your own, but if you're convinced you do, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile - For more: /msg ubotu stages [00:45] !hardy [00:45] Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1, NOT #ubuntu [00:48] !msg the bot [00:48] Please investigate with me only in /msg or in #ubuntu-bots (type also /msg ubotu Bot). Don't use commands in the public channels if you don't know if they really exist. Also avoid adding joke/useless factoids. [00:49] yeah, clearly my 2 queries really messed up the roaring flow of conversation in this channel [00:50] So I see that Hardy is using 2.6.22 for a kernel. Is that right? The same kernel as Gutsy? [00:50] WorkingOnWise: that is correct currently. It will release with a 2.6.24-based one. [00:51] crimsun: ok. I was mildly concerned that my upgrade didn't go as smooth as I thought. [00:51] I also can't seem to drag from File-roller to Nautilus. [00:53] WorkingOnWise: it was decided at UDS-Boston that a reasonable attempt to ship 8.04 with a 2.6.24-based one would be made. Obviously, since 2.6.24 has not been released yet, 8.04 continues to use 7.10's 2.6.22-based one. [00:56] Oh yeah, that reminds me: [00:56] A friend asked me about something to do with "No high-resolution timers available" in some audio app. [00:56] crimsun: ty. [00:56] It turns out, Dell apparently either is missing, or deliberately broke, HPET in their BIOS. [00:56] Is there any way to work around that? [00:57] perhaps just use 2.6.24 [00:57] DanaG: lt is probably Audacity. I know nothing else about it, bit I have seen the same error. [00:58] or use the patches - http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/tglx/hrtimers/ (I think they have the hpet series enabled that went into 2.6.24) [00:58] Infact I don't think I know they do [00:59] Oops, you lost some punctuation, and that made that sentence a bit ambiguous. [01:00] insert the comma proceeding the 'k' [01:00] or the semicolon if you wish to be pedantic [01:01] aah. [01:01] DanaG, make sure you boot with hpet=force if dmesg| grep hpet fails to show anything [01:02] Well, it's not my PC, so I'll have to remember it for next time I see that person. [01:03] cfs 24 for 24-rc3 seems pretty nice [01:04] It's funny -- I tried 'osx86' on my laptop, and while it worked reasonably well, I concluded I have no real reason to actually use it. Ubuntu works more than well enough for me -- and it's more customizable. [01:05] I realized that for some reason, I find it FUN fixing things when they break. [01:05] Or abusing things to see if they WILL break -- for example, setting window transitions to slow 'dodge' and clicking back and forth between windows makes compiz-fusion hard-lock. [01:06] infinitycircuit: are you using the latest thinkpad-acpi ? [01:07] I am not sure whether to bother sourcing a usb floppy drive to update the bios on mine (apparantly I don't need to if I use that something to do with NVRAM) === Dana1 is now known as DanaG [01:44] The home of X breakage? Maybe I don't want to try out the alpha after all. :-\ [02:04] Here goes nothing! :-) [02:04] gsker: Thats probably how you will feel later [02:06] * gsker ponders that [02:09] I wonder how long this will take...... [02:10] a while. [02:10] give or take? :-) [02:10] Done getting.... unpacking .... installing.... [02:14] gsker: Obviously it depends on the connection it didn't take long at all for me [02:14] perhaps if there is tons of people upgrading right now it will take longer [02:14] well since I got it all, it doesn't depend on the connection any more.... [02:15] I don't remember it taking a noticable amount of time [02:15] :-) Noticeable? you like, blinked and it was done!??? [02:15] I usually have two mirrors. [02:16] A fast, local, but often out-of-date mirror, and the official US mirror. [02:16] Put the faster one above the other in sources.list, and it'll be preferred for any packages not out of date. [02:16] gsker: perhaps I was not paying attention (probably so) [02:16] I use mirrors.kernel.org. [02:17] I just followed the 3 lines of instruction from linuxjournal. [02:18] sudo sed -i "s/gutsy/hardy/g" /etc/apt/sources.list;sudo aptitude update;sudo aptitude dist-upgrade [02:18] I used perl -pi but other than that the same [03:02] is kde 4.0 planned to be released with hardy? [03:05] dick-richardson: it appears so, see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-hardy-kde4 [03:29] not as the default desktop [03:29] however [04:03] Well, I had to blink a coupla times, but it's there! [04:11] is anyone else having trouble with brightness control in hardy? [04:12] my laptop screen reverts to maximum brightness every minute even if i bring it down with the keyboard keys [04:20] * Hobbsee supsects that's laptop specific [04:23] infinitycircuit: I think that may be a g-p-m bug - maybe if you have "dim when idle" set, then the brightness level that gets triggered by the dim is the default brightness - some number, rather than current brightness - some number. === tonyy is now known as tonyyarusso [06:03] is the new kernel in the repos yet? [06:03] for hardy that is [06:03] no [06:03] ahh, ok. [06:04] where's the best avenue to hunt down developers who can fix SD readers? [06:06] depends how they're broken, i expect, but driver developers, i guess... [06:12] it worked with like .17, but hasnt since [06:59] if there way to blacklist a package from a certain repository? say if I wanted to download update-manager from a different repo then ubuntu's and not use priorityies - is there a way to do it? [06:59] say to use packages from gutsy instead of hardy [07:03] choudesh, preferences [07:03] chowmeined, man apt_preferences [07:41] Odd: trying to add wallpapers to the list doesn't work. [08:06] what repositories do I use and is Hardy going to break for me? [08:06] I'm going to update without checking what is to be updated [09:09] anyone having issues with hardy + azureus? [09:10] jdong will be most upset :) [09:11] choudesh: What sort of issues? [09:11] * RAOF doesn't, of course, because he uses either deluge or transmission. [09:11] #19 /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-sun-1.6.0.03/jre/lib/i386/client/libjvm.so [0x620bc6d] [09:11] java: xcb_xlib.c:82: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed. [09:11] Babaw! [09:11] Use icedtea-java7 [09:11] All the other sun java vms are broken. [09:12] (And have been forever, it's just that Xorg didn't care so much before) [09:12] what is the package name? [09:12] icedtea-java7, I think :) [09:12] !find icedtea hardy [09:12] Found: icedtea-java7-bin, icedtea-java7-demo, icedtea-java7-doc, icedtea-java7-jdk, icedtea-java7-jre (and 2 others) [09:12] icedtea-java7-sdk and jre [09:12] I apt-cached it. ;-) [09:13] The following packages have unmet dependencies: [09:13] icedtea-java7-jre: Depends: icedtea-java7-bin (>= 7~b21) but it is not going to be installed [09:13] I love being an early adopter. ;-) [09:13] Technically, the problem is that all the sun JRE's have some Xlib stuff, built without threading support, statically linked in. Since absolutely everyone has Xlib built with threading enabled, this is a problem :) [09:14] ahhhh. I see. [09:14] choudesh: Hm. Aptitude *may* be able to find some way to install it. [09:14] damn libgif4 has a done of depends. [09:14] Yup, indeed. [09:15] I just have a script that looks at depends and starts at the beginning. [09:15] Oh, if you really can't install icedtea, I think you can work around this with an evil, evil hack. [09:15] Basically by sedding out the XINERAMA string from the java VM binary. [09:15] Need to get 36.9kB of archives. [09:15] After unpacking 154MB disk space will be freed. [09:15] that is odd [09:15] WHat's it removing? [09:16] kde4base kde4libs-bin kdelibs5 kdepimlibs5 libgdiplus [09:16] libmono-winforms2.0-cil libungif4g monodevelop [09:17] Heh. kde4base is big :) [09:17] yea... I missed that one when I looked. I was like, holy **** [09:17] This may be a good time to check out various other bittorrent clients, though :) [09:18] Either deluge-torrent or (maybe) transmission would be worth a look. [09:18] heh. I have deluged installed - but I love azureus...it is heavy but I just love some of the plugins [09:18] does icedtea-java7-jre update java-alternatives? [09:18] Probably not. [09:19] I'm not sure. It'd be a good plan to check :) [09:19] root@duo:/home/choudesh/.azureus# java -version [09:19] java version "1.7.0" [09:19] IcedTea Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0-b23) [09:19] IcedTea Client VM (build 1.7.0-b23, mixed mode, sharing) [09:19] it does. ;-) [09:19] Score. [09:19] Now, does azureus run under icedtea? :) [09:19] yeppers [09:19] thanks for your help [09:19] NP. [09:20] (Let this be a lesson: static linkind FTL!) [09:20] heh [09:20] s/d/g/ === compwiz18_ is now known as compwiz === compwiz is now known as compwiz18 === Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee [15:00] Hi, for some reason my sound will stop working after a couple of hours. I go System > Preferences > Sound and when i hit Test i get this: audiotestsrc wave=sine freq=512 ! audioconvert ! audioresample ! gconfaudiosink profile=chat: Internal data flow error. [15:01] Any ideas on how to fix? [15:23] !info linux-image-generic hardy [15:23] linux-image-generic: Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 2.6.22.14.21 (hardy), package size 24 kB, installed size 52 kB [15:23] :( [15:24] 2.6.24-rc has been accepted and even after the alpha1 release isnt out :( === Gunirus is now known as [Gunirus] === Pici` is now known as Pici === Sebast1an is now known as Sebastian [17:03] when I try to use vncviewer I can't type in password. I know that this is due to compiz but is there any workaround that ? [17:03] hetauma: disable compiz [17:04] h3sp4wn, apart from that? [17:15] hetauma: I don't use compiz but I've heard shift+click may work [17:19] stdin, worked fine thanx alot :D [17:20] heh, reading blogs can actually be useful sometimes :p === [Gunirus] is now known as [[Gunirus]] === ktogias is now known as _ktogias === jussi__ is now known as jussi01 [19:17] what do I need to do get intel wireless (thinkpad t60) run with the hardy kernel? [19:17] I'm using gutsy as base, but I would like to use 2.6.24 for the power savings (on AMD64) [19:21] 2.6.24 isn't released, yet [19:21] void^: IK; I am using linux for 12 years... [19:22] I'm just not clear on the whole /lib/firmware thing [19:22] and what ucode goes with what version [19:22] especially since the intel wireless code changed from .22 to .24 [19:22] gutsy + hardy kernel isn't supported at all (not even here) [19:23] <[ifr0g]> I heard CNR will come with hardy, is the rumor true ? [19:23] crdlb: define 'supported' [19:24] crdlb: There is not a massive difference between the 2 at the moment that I can see - gutsy with a custom kernel should be supported [19:24] I'm not saying it won't work [19:24] crdlb: does that mean 'does not run at all' or does it mean 'you cannot pay anybody to fix it for you' [19:24] crdlb: I'm not interested in the second answer... [19:24] I'm saying that this channel is for people actually running hardy :) [19:25] are you running hardy on a laptop ATM? [19:25] nope [19:25] Theoretically - I am running hardy on a thinkpad X31 [19:26] I have built the kernel from the sources in http://ftp.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux/ [19:26] since I could not find linux-image and linux-modules packages in the pool [19:26] the kernel package installed fine, everything works, except the wireless [19:27] I have copied ipw3945.ucode iwlwifi-3945-1.ucode from 2.6.22-14-generic to 2.6.24-1-generic/ [19:27] and I'm getting a 'wlan0_rename' interface [19:28] does NetworkManager need a bump? [19:28] I doubt it [19:29] Just use http://www.intellinuxwireless.org/iwlwifi/downloads/iwlwifi-1.2.22.tgz [19:32] h3sp4wn: isn't that (or something really close to it) already part of the linux kernel? [19:33] Maybe - with wireless I usually just use whatevers the newest stable release [19:34] I haven't messed with mac80211 for a client though - I think its still compatible with wext [19:34] But I know for hostapd you need the devicescape driver === tonyy is now known as tonyyarusso [20:24] Does ubuntu mobile support the eepc ? [20:58] h3sp4wn: i think it targets a different set of devices. you can probably wedge normal ubuntu on it though [21:00] pwnguin: I want to play with it but I dunno what devices I can get (for not a silly amount of money a $1000 dev board is too much) [21:01] They are both x86 the one it does support and the eepc [21:02] what i mean is that they're after a smaller touchscreen type device [21:03] you should be able to use a chroot and xephyr to get an idea [21:12] I upgraded to hardy, and now my sound isn't working... is it likely this is related? [21:13] related to what? [21:13] your dist-upgrade? Unlikely. [21:13] We're still using the same kernel. [21:14] note: I'm not referring to "some random mixer element is muted" but to "sound driver is broken completely" [21:14] I'm not concerned about the former; the latter is significant. [21:14] I got a new card recently, but it was working... so it's possible it's still just related to my still not having it working right [21:15] the gnome mixer shows the right card and that sound is working and everything, but the alsamixer is showing my onboard card... could this be why? [21:16] underwatercow: no, that's irrelevant. [21:17] I still think that the dist-upgrade had something to do with it somehow... [21:17] though I know it shouldn't have [21:17] underwatercow: download http://trilug.org/~crimsun/alsa-info.sh, run it using bash, and tell me the url. [21:19] crimsun: does it need su? [21:19] no. [21:21] crimsun: still running... :-p [21:21] wait a tic; it may take a bit. [21:22] crimsun: who wrote this script? [21:22] underwatercow: members of #alsa [21:22] crimsun: ah, nifty [21:25] crimsun: um.... it says Your ALSA information is located at [21:25] Please inform the person helping you. [21:26] underwatercow: ok, then your connection to pastebin.ca is fubar [21:26] underwatercow: instead, pass the --debug option [21:26] underwatercow: it will place an alsa dump text file in /tmp/ [21:27] crimsun: want me to paste it manually to pastebin? [21:27] underwatercow: yes [21:27] crimsun: now it has to run again.... *sigh* :-p [21:27] there's a no-upload option, too. [21:28] crimsun: that's a good call [21:33] crimsun: which pastebin would you like me to use? or does it matter? [21:34] doesn't really matter. [21:35] crimsun: http://pastebin.com/d4f41fdb9 [21:35] (ok, sec, on the phone.) [21:35] crimsun: sure [21:36] crimsun: fyi, the Intel is my onboard that I don't want to use [21:39] hmm. [21:39] you seem to have compiled 1.0.15 manually. [21:40] crimsun: I was trying to, lol... don't know if I did it right [21:40] (we ship -driver with 1.0.14 by default and 1.0.15rc3 in linux-backports-modules) [21:40] (we also don't ship libasound2-dev by default, which would be required for the script to pick up the lib version) [21:40] crimsun: I'm not partial to 1.0.15 for any reason... I just want my sound working [21:41] well, it's good to be running 1.0.15 -driver and -lib, but note that you've messed with the Ubuntu infrastructure [21:41] I recommend at some point you do a clean install of a Hardy Alpha [21:41] anyhow, let me look more closely [21:41] crimsun: will hardy include 1.015 at some point? [21:42] underwatercow: I've already uploaded 1.0.15 [21:42] lol [21:42] the version that ships in the kernel, however, is still 1.0.14. It uses Gutsy's kernel. [21:43] gotcha... [21:43] well, this problem is fairly straightforward. [21:43] Your asoundrc references your onboard HDA, which is index 0. [21:43] your ice17xx-based card is not index 0 but index 1 [21:43] oh.... the asoundrc was one I got online... do I need it even? [21:44] you may need it for non-GSt-aware apps. [21:44] the reason I got it was I was trying to make my surround sound work, which I may have without it [21:44] I'd mv ~/.asoundrc ~/.asoundrc.bak [21:44] it* [21:44] then `asoundconf set-default-card Revolution51` [21:44] then log out and back in [21:45] crimsun: thanks, I'll brb [21:52] crimsun: Ok... I have sound now, though I had to do a full restart. It didn't seem to want to fully load gnome from a logout [21:52] crimsun: I don't have surround now though [21:53] crimsun: I also got a popup that says "Refresh Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA) configuration presets" [21:53] yes, that's correct. [21:53] can you use -Dplug:surroundXX ? [21:53] crimsun: I don't know? [21:54] asoundconf list [21:54] crimsun: it says Revolution51 and Intel? [21:54] I need the specific order [21:54] that order [21:55] ok, so test plug:surround51:0 [21:55] use a multichannel file as appropriate [21:55] or use speaker-test(1) [21:55] speaker-test -c6 -Dplug:surround51:0 [21:56] the first did nothing, the last... [21:56] Unable to set sw params for playback: Invalid argument [21:56] Setting of swparams failed: Invalid argument [21:57] remove the :0 [21:58] same [21:58] probably hitching on S32_LE, then [21:58] what is that? [21:58] it's the format that your driver requires [22:00] crimsun: should I use the .asoundrc with the correct sound device? or should I be able to get it working without? [22:00] sure, you can erase ~/.asoundrc and ~/.asoundrc.asoundconf [22:00] and mv ~/.asoundrc.bak ~/.asoundrc [22:02] crimsun: so do I still need to change to hardware 1? or did making it default do that? [22:03] make it 0 that is [22:03] you can leave it 0, since the ice17xx-based one is currently index 0 [22:03] aight... is it enough to restart alsa-utils? or should I log out? [22:04] I would also use the slots parameter for snd to force the driver to always load as index 0 [22:04] what do you mean? [22:05] echo options snd slots=snd-ice1724,snd-hda-intel |sudo tee -a /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base [22:07] ok, done [22:07] yeah, you'll likely need to log out and back in for the asoundrc change [22:07] (to be safe, at least) [22:07] without knowing what you have running, that's the safest guess [22:08] crimsun: very little at the moment, but I'll log out [22:08] brb again [22:16] crimsun: ok, has surround now :-p [22:16] crimsun: is it just duplicating the front to the back? [22:17] underwatercow: well, yes, that's what your asoundrc specifies. [22:17] crimsun: is that the only way I can do it? or can I have genuine surround sound? lol [22:19] genuine? [22:19] crimsun: different channels I guess for the rear speakers? [22:19] crimsun: so you can have different sound in the front than in the back [22:19] if the app sets the appropriate parameters via alsa-lib, of course you can have "genuine" surround [22:19] e.g., xine-lib, GSt, etc. [22:19] mplayer, too [22:20] crimsun: even with the back duplicating the front? [22:20] I don't think you understand your asoundrc dupe stanza [22:20] crimsun: apparently not, lol [22:20] that's an upmix that's used for "plain" 2-channel files [22:20] crimsun: oh... [22:21] so without the file [22:21] it would be stereo unless the app was set up for 5.1? [22:21] xine-lib, GSt, mplayer are all intelligent enough to set the appropriate parameters via alsa-lib for "genuine" 6-channel or 8-channel files [22:21] essentially, yes [22:22] crimsun: so are things like web browsers, playing in two channel then? [22:22] err, well, it depends what format the files are [22:22] there's nothing preventing a Web browser from sending a genuine 8-channel file to alsa-lib [22:23] it would be foolhardy, but well, it's certainly possible [22:23] crimsun: gotcha, so it's possible, but not likely [22:23] correct. [22:23] crimsun: why doesn't it dupe by default? [22:23] because it can't, as you've discovered. [22:23] there are far too many variations on codecs, many of them broken by the manufacturers. [22:24] crimsun: ah... well in windows, do the manufacturers set it up to do that by default then? [22:25] depends [22:25] I can't speak of the ones under NDA [22:26] crimsun: Can I ask you a windows related sound question? [22:26] another that is [22:26] lol [22:26] it might not be windows specifically [22:27] but that's where I noticed it [22:27] I probably won't have the tech-fu to answer a Windows audio question, but sure. [22:27] lol [22:28] when I set up my card for surround sound in windows, the game I am playing will play all of the sounds except certain dialog [22:28] I have to put it to stereo to hear the dialog [22:28] report the bug to your manufacturer :-] [22:28] lol [22:29] I didn't know if it was me, the game, the manufacturer... [22:30] difficult to say [22:30] I would surmise it's the driver [22:30] I haven't tested it on any other games in windows yet [22:30] maybe I'll try that first [22:30] OTOH, it could be in the game, too, in the way it sets DX params [22:30] it's a vista driver, so who can say [22:30] I hate vista [22:31] I love Vista, works great here [22:31] I also have not used Vista. [22:31] thus the vacuous statement [22:31] lol [22:31] I only installed it because it cost me nothing [22:31] and it will have more support than xp [22:31] if only wine could run all my games [22:32] oh joyous day [22:35] crimsun: thanks for your help [22:35] np [23:05] crap crap crap, i'll never learn i lost my amarok database after upgrading to hardy [23:11] lo all [23:12] im running hardy :P on a second laptop, just wondered where the xorg.conf (or replacement) is, as i need to add my touchpad [23:14] mcscruff, /etc/X11 [23:15] what file tho [23:15] hi! i upgraded to hardy but still have kernel 2.6.22-14..is that normal? [23:15] yes [23:15] 2.6.22-14-generic is default [23:17] why was the "about ubuntu" not updated [23:17] the new kernel isn't in hardy yet [23:18] hmm, i wanted to check out a more recent kernel :/ can i get rid of that "amd testing uso only unsupported hardware" sign in the bottom right corner? [23:20] You can always bake a vanilla 2.6.23-whatever-is-current kernel. [23:20] torbon, ati? [23:20] i was just reading a fix for that [23:20] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=623882&highlight=hardy [23:21] torben: You could build the current ubuntu git === _ktogias is now known as ktogias [23:22] i really dont have an xorg.conf [23:23] mcscruff: Is that a problem ? [23:23] when i need to add touchpad it is [23:23] /usr/share/xresprobe/xorg.conf < You can still have one if you need to (but for common cases its unnecessary) [23:24] h3sp4wn: how can i do that? [23:24] torben: Just write one [23:24] do you need it all or can i just add the lines i need? [23:25] h3sp4wn: sounds like too much work, i'm not really into this.. [23:26] torben: actually I just got confused - there is a page on the wiki about git kernels [23:26] mcscruff: Should just be able to add what you need [23:26] is there anything major in the new alpha ? [23:26] ah ok [23:27] or was it just the package sync ? [23:27] torben: or just wait some time, I guess 2.6.24 kernel is coming soonish [23:27] BlackDiamonds, no xorg.conf :) [23:27] wait wut [23:27] is everything automated now ? [23:27] im not sure if its just me but something has been tweaked and my system seems to be running very fast [23:28] mcscruff: Its always fast the further away from the release it is [23:28] the restricted driver thing is missing (good move) [23:29] Does anyone know when that hardware detection spec will be implemented ? [23:29] mcscruff: No doubt that will be back [23:29] time to try a nice ati driver [23:29] BlackDiamonds: try asking in #ubuntu+1 [23:29] mcscruff: What ati card are you using ? [23:30] h3sp4wn, radion 200M [23:30] magnetron this is ubuntu+1 [23:30] BlackDiamonds: eh... oopss [23:30] lol [23:30] Think that is a bit new for XiG but my radeon mobility absolutely fly's with the XiG non-free X server [23:31] * magnetron facepalms [23:33] h3sp4wn: XiG is still alive? I somehow would have expected a commercial X server to die with the previous millennium (when I last heard of it) :) [23:33] Trewas: Still alive and well [23:34] and still tons better than xorg for the supported ati cards [23:35] (If amd does release the specs I would expect XiG to produce better drivers than the xorg people) [23:35] Just for comparison - ut2004 is totally unplayable on this laptop with xorg and perfect with XiG [23:36] (and its a 16MB radeon mobility where all parties had access to the specs) [23:36] Xig , ooo i want it [23:37] unsurprisingly they don't have support for nvidia chips where the company itself is making decent drivers... but I wonder how good their intel drivers are [23:38] Trewas: I don't think much to the nvidia drivers [23:40] well, I haven't found anything to complain (stability or feature-wise) yet about nvidia drivers, granted that I have used them only on desktops [23:40] is it possible to get a framebuffer at native resolution (1440x900) on a macbook pro using that new ati-driver? [23:40]