[08:05] <kraut> moin
[08:27] <tritium> hi dholbach :)
[08:30] <dholbach> hi tritium
[08:32] <tritium> I saw your message the other day during the CC meeting.
[08:32] <tritium> Thanks for saying hi!
[08:42]  * dholbach hugs tritium
[08:58] <tritium> Thanks, dholbach!
[08:59] <tritium> Off to bed.  Good night...
[09:00] <dholbach> nightie tritium
[14:33] <zul> @schedule montreal
[14:33] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 04 Dec 11:00: Server Team meeting | 05 Dec 15:30: Xubuntu meeting | 12 Dec 18:00: Kubuntu Developers | 18 Dec 10:00: Server Team meeting
[15:49] <jdstrand> hi clifter1!
 hello!
[15:49] <jdstrand> (I'm Jamie)
[15:50] <clifter1> oh ok ;)
[15:50] <somerville32> \o/
[15:57] <mathiaz> hi all ! :)
[15:58] <jdstrand> hi mathiaz !
[15:58] <jdstrand> mathiaz: we got a foot of snow here-- you?
[15:58] <jdstrand> uh, 1/3 meter..
[15:58] <jdstrand> 33.3 cm
[15:59]  * jdstrand is still getting used to the metric stuff :)
[15:59] <nijaba> No snow in Paris yet...  Hello everybody
[15:59] <mathiaz> jdstrand: a little bit more here
[15:59] <sommer> hello everyone
[16:00] <jdstrand> mathiaz: well, it's still snowing now, so maybe we can catch up ;)
[16:00] <nxvl_work> here the sun is shining
[16:00] <jdstrand> nxvl_work: what part of the world?
[16:00] <mathiaz> jdstrand: hehe.. good luck. it's still snowing here :D
[16:00] <nxvl_work> summer is beginning
[16:00] <nxvl_work> jdstrand: Peru
[16:00] <jdstrand> nxvl_work: nice!
[16:01] <nealmcb> jdstrand: http://www.google.com/search?q=1+foot+in+cm&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial
[16:01] <zul> morning
[16:01] <mathiaz> morning zul
[16:01] <jdstrand> nealmcb: hehe, thanks
[16:01] <mathiaz> soren: around ?
[16:01] <zul> mathiaz: still digging yourself out?
[16:01] <soren> Yes. Sorry.
[16:01] <jdstrand> nealmcb: that is very precise, unfortunately, my initial '1 foot' was not ;)
[16:02] <jdstrand> nealmcb: hey you probably have some snow don't you?
[16:02] <nealmcb> it's windy and pretty warm in boulder - the classic chinook....
[16:02] <mathiaz> allright. Let's get this started.
[16:03] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:03. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:03]  * coffeedude waves at *
[16:03] <mathiaz> Welcome to the 10th meeting of the ServerTeam !
[16:03] <soren> \o/
[16:03] <nealmcb> !!
[16:03] <sommer> party!
[16:03] <macd> wooo
[16:04] <mathiaz> so - the agenda is quite small.
[16:04] <mathiaz> anyone wants to add something to it ?
[16:05] <sommer> I had a couple of question regarding the documentation area.
[16:05] <nealmcb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:05] <sommer> but if there's other topics they can go first
[16:05] <mathiaz> sommer: we can review your question when we get down to the documentation section of the roadmap ?
[16:06] <sommer> cool, works for me
[16:06] <mathiaz> great.
[16:06] <mathiaz>  [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:06] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[16:06] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20071127
[16:06] <coffeedude> mathiaz: Likewise Open is now publicly available.  I can give an update on that if there is time.
[16:07] <mathiaz> coffeedude: sure.
[16:07] <mathiaz> coffeedude: after the last meeting review ?
[16:07] <coffeedude> mathiaz: sure.  Just ping me when it's time.
[16:08] <mathiaz> sommer: As usual you've done a great job
[16:08] <sommer> mathiaz: heh thx
[16:09] <mathiaz> nijaba has put the MIR spec online at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerPackageReview
[16:09] <nijaba> yep...
[16:09] <mathiaz> ScottK and Ante picked up some packages
[16:09] <Zic> @now
[16:10] <mathiaz> If anyone wants to work on writing some MIR, they should edit the wiki page.
[16:10] <macd> I was thinking rubygems might be pulled into main? is rails?
[16:10] <mathiaz> I didn't have time to update the Roadmap with the list of spec for hardy
[16:11] <mathiaz> I'll try to get this done by next week.
[16:11] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz will update the Developer section of the Roadmap with the specs for hardy
[16:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz will update the Developer section of the Roadmap with the specs for hardy
[16:11] <mathiaz> macd: I think it's part of the RoR spec, isn't it ?
[16:11] <macd> yes, but the MIR spec still has it as rejected, I got confused
[16:12] <mathiaz> macd: right. it's been marked as defered.
[16:12] <mathiaz> macd: the MirSpec is about getting packages into main that are not necessarly covered by another spec.
[16:12] <macd> mathiaz, ahh, right great ;)
[16:13] <mathiaz> getting something into main doesn't mean it has to be on the list.
[16:13] <mathiaz> the MirSpec is just a list of packages that we've discussed at UDS
[16:13] <mathiaz> they should be considered for inclusion into main.
[16:14] <mathiaz> The db4.4 bug has been uploaded and should be fixed soon.
[16:15] <nealmcb> thanks!!
[16:15] <mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/db4.4/+bug/153996
[16:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153996 in db4.4 "libdb4.4 in gutsy breaks postgrey and subversion" [High,Fix committed]
[16:16] <mathiaz> [TOPIC]  Likewise Open is now publicly available.
[16:16] <MootBot> New Topic:   Likewise Open is now publicly available.
[16:17] <coffeedude> ok.
[16:17] <coffeedude> For those who were at UDS during the Window integration section, I demoed some domain join utilities for AD domains.
[16:17] <coffeedude> That code is now publicly available
[16:17] <coffeedude> http://www.likewisesoftware.com/community/
[16:17] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.likewisesoftware.com/community/
[16:18] <coffeedude> dendrobates has the source tarball of the release and we are working on packages for Hardy.
[16:18] <coffeedude> The main packaging issue is splitting out the gui and cli utilities into separate packages.
[16:18] <coffeedude> I'll send out a short announcement to the ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-server lists as well later today.
[16:19] <coffeedude> mathiaz: That's the short run of it.  Unless there are some specific questions.....
[16:19] <mathiaz> coffeedude: thanks for the quick intro.
[16:20] <mralphabet> coffeedude: is that going to be in for hardy? is that the target?
[16:20] <coffeedude> mralphabet: targetting Jan 2 for upload.
[16:21] <mralphabet> coffeedude: ahh, k thanks
[16:21] <coffeedude> mralphabet: so yes.  Definitely in Hardy
[16:21] <nealmcb> coffeedude: many thanks - important stuff!
[16:21] <coffeedude> nealmcb: :-)
[16:22] <sommer> sounds like a good thing to add to the Windows Neteworking section of the docs
[16:22] <mathiaz> sommer: yes. That's something that defenitly needs to be documented and announced.
[16:23] <mathiaz> we should mentioned in the release notes
[16:23] <sommer> once the packages are in the repos we could start with a wiki page... then translate it to DocBook
[16:24] <nijaba> sommer: count me in if you need some help there
[16:24] <sommer> nijaba: cool, probably will because I don't currently have an AD domain available
[16:24] <nijaba> sommer: VM are great for this
[16:25] <mathiaz> Let's move on.
[16:25] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
[16:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
[16:25] <nealmcb> nijaba: but having ad to test against is harder....
[16:25] <sommer> nijaba: ya... just need to set one up.
[16:25] <coffeedude> btw...I'll plan to spend a fair amount on QA as well (in Hardy) since I have a large set of AD domains.....
[16:26] <nealmcb> any way someone can make some AD domains available for testing by others?
[16:27] <coffeedude> nealmcb: not mine.  But we can bring this up on the ubuntu-server list perhaps.....
[16:28] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:29] <mathiaz> soren: how is the merge going ?
[16:29] <soren> Sorry, I was on the phone :(
[16:29] <soren> mathiaz: Which merge?
[16:29] <soren> (me lost track somewhere)
[16:29] <mathiaz> soren: the general state of merge on the server related packages
[16:30] <soren> Oh.. Good question. I think we're in pretty good shape.
[16:30] <soren> ...but I honestly haven't checked the list in a about a week.
[16:30] <mathiaz> I see that libpam-ldap and libnss-ldap are still needed
[16:31] <soren> jdstrand did them already, I just haven't reviewed them.
[16:31] <soren> I suck.
[16:31] <mathiaz> soren: what about the samba merge ?
[16:31] <jdstrand> soren: come on now, you don't *suck*
[16:31] <mathiaz> soren: Do you have an issue with the change of the default workgroup name ?
[16:31] <soren> mathiaz: I talked to Steve about it yesterday. I haven't checked if he implemented my comments. If he did, I'll upload later today.
[16:32] <soren> mathiaz: I did, but I'm happy now :)
[16:32] <mathiaz> soren: He attached a new debdiff with some changelog modification.
[16:32] <soren> That's what I told him to. Great. Later today, then.
[16:32] <mathiaz> soren: but the core change to move from MSHOME to WORKGROUP is ok with you ?
[16:32] <soren> Yes.
[16:33] <mathiaz> soren: great :)
[16:33] <soren> Even though I might think that MSHOME is still a sane default, this will be less and less true as time goes by, so the sooner we change it, the less pain we get later on.
[16:34] <mathiaz> soren: right. As I said in the debian bug, MSHOME is the default for Windows XP Home - the other products use WORKGROUP, as upstream samba.
[16:34] <soren> mathiaz: I'm aware
[16:34] <mathiaz> sommer: how documentation is going ?
[16:35] <soren> However, even though I have no actual statistics to back this up, I think XP Home is still quite common among a lot of our users.
[16:35] <soren> But let's not worry about that. It's being changed as of now, so there :)
[16:37] <nijaba> soren: I strongly disagree that our target users are XP home users...
[16:37] <soren> nijaba: That's not what I'm saying.
[16:37] <sommer> mathiaz: good the dns section is updated
[16:37] <nealmcb> soren: yeah - it is frustrating and I appreciate your comments - changing our default is a hassle for our users - but I think this is the right approach
[16:38] <soren> nijaba: I'm saying that I think there might happen to a certain correlation between the set of users that are likely to use Ubuntu and the set of users who are likely to have XP Home machines on their existing network.
[16:38] <soren> nealmcb: Agreed. The point is that as time goes by, it will be annoying to more and more users, and given that we're likely to change it at some point, earlier is better.
[16:38] <nealmcb> ... bite the bullet now....
[16:38] <nijaba> soren: clearer, thanks
[16:38] <soren> nijaba: :)
[16:39] <mathiaz> sommer: what's next on the plate for the ServerGuide review ?
[16:40] <sommer> one of my questions has to do with doc.u.c and having a "nightly" build of the development docs
[16:40] <sommer> I filed  Bug #173104
[16:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173104 in ubuntu-docs "doc.ubuntu.com/  needs updated" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173104
[16:41] <sommer> and Mathew East was going to query some people about it... I was wondering if there's anything the Server Team can do?
[16:42] <sommer> basically it would be easier for reviewers if an html version of the development docs were available
[16:42] <mathiaz> sommer: Not much I guess. It's a Doc team issue
[16:42] <sommer> mathiaz: gotcha... thought I'd try anyway
[16:43] <sommer> in regards to the next section I was thinking about updating the Intro and Installation sections
[16:43] <dendrobates> hello everyone.  I finally showed up.  :)
[16:44] <jdstrand> hi dendrobates!
[16:44] <sommer> was planning on trying to answer the questions raised in these articles http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netos/article.php/3709221
[16:44] <soren> dendrobates: Hi, boss :)
[16:44] <sommer> that's the first one anyway
[16:44] <nealmcb> sommer: :-)
[16:44] <nijaba> sommer: very good idea
[16:44] <sommer> my plan was to cover the new tasksel options and which packages are installed... or at least how to find which packages
[16:45] <mathiaz> I don't think we need to cover which package are installed.
[16:45] <nijaba> sommer: from these articles we also need a section explaining which are the specific optimizations in the server kernel
[16:45] <mathiaz> That's the reason why we're using tasksel after all
[16:46] <sommer> nijaba: ya... I was also wondering if the current min requirements are accurate?
[16:46] <nealmcb> I was curious about her comments in the last (?) article about separate namespaces for ipc, uts - for container security? CONFIG_IPC_NS=y, CONFIG_UTS_NS=y
[16:46] <nealmcb> so hopefully someone can dig in and document or perhaps respond
[16:46] <nijaba> sommer: good question.  I'll check that and get back to you
[16:47] <sommer> nijaba: cool, thanks
[16:47] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba will check the minimun requirement for an installation of ubuntu-server
[16:47] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba will check the minimun requirement for an installation of ubuntu-server
[16:47] <sommer> the other thing with the tasksel options is if they change there are any config changes that differ from using apt
[16:47] <sommer> ivoks mentioned that the mail-server task will automatically setup Dovecot SASL for example
[16:48] <soren> We're working to get that working independently of tasksel.
[16:48] <nijaba> sommer: there is a specific postinst script for tasksel
[16:48] <mathiaz> sommer: not for now. But dovecot sasl is using this approach.
[16:48] <soren> I'd *really* like to avoid doing anything like that from tasksel.
[16:48] <soren> The dovecot side of things is mostly settled.
[16:49] <sommer> makes sense to me, I think either way we need to document it :-)
[16:49] <soren> Sure, sure.
[16:49] <soren> It's just (hopefully) not going to be a tasksel (or even task) specific thing, but rather a feature of the packages involved.
[16:50] <mathiaz> soren: that would be ideal. But it seems that there are some dependencies issues.
[16:50] <nijaba> soren: shall we document the ^ thing in apt-get ?
[16:50] <soren> nijaba: Yes :)
[16:51] <soren> mathiaz: Shall I explain now or do you want to wait until after the meeting?
[16:51] <nijaba> I meant, other than in the code of course ;)
[16:51] <mathiaz> soren: well - the best thing would to comment on the bug.
[16:51] <soren> Sure.
[16:51] <mathiaz> soren: bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/164837
[16:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 164837 in dovecot "Dovecot SASL for postfix" [Low,In progress]
[16:52] <mathiaz> nealmcb: what's the state of the factoids update ?
[16:53] <nealmcb> stalled while I fix my laptop disk :-(
[16:53] <nealmcb> like my jeos bug reports and comments .....
[16:53] <sommer> the other documentation question I had as if it makes sense to include a "Howto Install GUI" section?
[16:54] <sommer> I know it's not recommended on a server, but the question seems to come up a lot
[16:54] <mathiaz> sommer: correct.
[16:54] <nijaba> sommer: please no !
[16:54] <mathiaz> I'd start with a wiki page
[16:54] <sommer> also, most of the info is already out there in the forums and wiki
[16:54] <nijaba> a factoid maybe?
[16:55] <sommer> mathiaz: sure wiki sounds fine to me.
[16:55] <mathiaz> If we can point to a wiki page on h.u.c when the question is asked it would be great.
[16:55]  * nealmcb agrees - documentation is helpful!
[16:55] <mathiaz> I'm not sure it would be a usefull section in the Server Guide.
[16:55] <sommer> cool that works
[16:56] <mathiaz> sommer: could add this as an item to the Roadmap ?
[16:56] <sommer> mathiaz: sure, will do
[16:57] <sommer> probably a good topic for a new contributor as well
[16:57] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer will add an item about writing a wiki page to install a minimal GUI on the server
[16:57] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer will add an item about writing a wiki page to install a minimal GUI on the server
[16:57] <mathiaz> sommer: yes.
[16:57] <nealmcb> the server guide could note that it doesn't cover desktop x11, and refer to another ubuntu doc that talks about switching desktops
[16:58] <nealmcb> and explain why they don't make sense on most servers
[16:58] <mathiaz> nealmcb: good idea.
[16:58] <nealmcb> and when ebox is there we can point folks there
[16:59] <nijaba> nealmcb: +1
[16:59] <sommer> nealmcb: good call we probably need an ebox section in the official docs as well
[16:59] <mathiaz> ok - we're running out of time
[16:59] <nealmcb> sommer: yes!!!
[16:59] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
[16:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
[17:00] <mathiaz> in one week ? same time, same place ?
[17:00] <sommer> works for me
[17:00] <somerville32> +1
[17:01] <dendrobates> this is a difficult time for me.
[17:01] <nealmcb> mathiaz: +1
[17:01] <nealmcb> dendrobates: better time?
[17:02] <dendrobates> If we want it to be around 16:00 utc, it will always be difficult.
[17:02] <dendrobates> I'll just make it when I can, mathiaz is doing a great job running it.
[17:03]  * soren hugs mathiaz
[17:03]  * sommer thanks mathiaz
[17:03] <jdstrand> mathiaz: kicks it!
[17:04]  * nijaba calls for a group hug around mathiaz
[17:04]  * jdstrand seconds
[17:04]  * nealmcb joins in
[17:04]  * mathiaz suggests we should do that outside here in montreal
[17:05] <mathiaz> ok. So let's have another meeting next meeting
[17:06] <mathiaz> but I won't be here - I'll be on vacation
[17:06] <mathiaz> I'll see you all next year
[17:06] <soren> I agree that next meeting is a good time for next meeting.
[17:06] <soren> :p
[17:06] <nijaba> Enjoy your vacations mathiaz
[17:06] <mathiaz> soren: lol
[17:06] <jdstrand> I love having a meeting in the next meeting
[17:07] <mathiaz> soren: yeah... I should read what I write sometimes
[17:07] <mathiaz> thanks nijaba
[17:08] <mathiaz> ok. So next meeting: next week, same time, same place.
[17:08] <nijaba> cheers everyone !
[17:08] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[17:08] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:08.
[17:08] <mathiaz> Thanks all and see ya in 2008 :)
[17:09] <sommer> good stuff, later all
[21:18] <huats> does anybody know who I should contact if I think I am not referenced as a member, while I should :)
[21:40] <Riddell> huats: community council member
[21:41] <huats> Riddell: Yeah thanks :)
[21:41] <huats> I've found the answer :) Apparently I've been forgotten in the approval in the Member group on launchpad...
[21:41] <huats> I'll try to ping one of them :)
[21:43] <Hattory> @schedule rome
[21:43] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 05 Dec 21:30: Xubuntu meeting | 13 Dec 00:00: Kubuntu Developers | 18 Dec 16:00: Server Team meeting