[16:30] <ion_> http://pages.plotinka.ru/~cyciron/chinauser.jpg
[18:50] <Keybuk> I.
[18:50] <Keybuk> HATE.
[18:50] <Keybuk> UNIX.
[18:50] <Keybuk> specifically Linux
[18:51] <AlexExtreme> why's that?
[18:51] <Keybuk> so there's this syscall
[18:51] <Keybuk> waitid
[18:51] <Keybuk> it has this nice WNOWAIT option
[18:51] <Keybuk> it means you can "peek" at the top of the wait list without actually taking things off
[18:52] <AlexExtreme> yep
[18:52] <Keybuk> except the fucking wait fucking list can fucking change
[18:52] <Keybuk> so if you waitid (..., WNOWAIT)
[18:52] <Keybuk> and then waitid () afterwards
[18:52] <Keybuk> you may have just taken a different event off than you had before
[18:54] <AlexExtreme> ah
[18:54]  * Keybuk beats his head against the wall
[19:06] <Keybuk> init: Failed to detach traced test (#0) main process (6132): No such process
[19:06] <Keybuk> ?!
[19:06] <Keybuk> scott     6132  0.0  0.0   3668   136 ?        S    19:00   0:00 /tmp/test
[19:06] <Keybuk> LOOK, THERE IT IS
[19:06] <Keybuk> attach: ptrace(PTRACE_ATTACH, ...): Operation not permitted
[19:06] <Keybuk> AND I KNOW YOU HAVE A TRACE ON IT
[19:07]  * Keybuk gets angry
[19:07] <Keybuk> oh, I know this one
[19:08] <Keybuk> you can't detach from the process without first sending it a signal
[19:08] <AlexExtreme> a quote from something I read today "UNIX is stupid"
[19:13] <Keybuk> anyway
[19:13] <Keybuk> :-)
[19:13] <Keybuk> http://pastebin.com/m692d8cd2
[19:13] <Keybuk> \o/
[19:14] <AlexExtreme> neat
[19:15] <Keybuk> FOUR WEEKS of fucking work
[19:15] <AlexExtreme> makes my 103 line init program look like total bollocks ;)
[19:15] <Keybuk> I feel like running out into the rain, screaming UUUUULLLLLAAAAAHHHH or something into the air
[19:15] <Keybuk> and then checking myself into a mental asylum
[19:15] <AlexExtreme> haha
[19:15] <Keybuk> something which should be *so* simple
[19:49] <Keybuk> now to tidy up the code, the scary if statements, etc.
[19:49] <Keybuk> and commit
 I.
 HATE.
 UNIX.
 specifically Linux << I should digg that, "Ubuntu's Development Manager hates Linux" :P
[19:50] <Keybuk> heh
[19:50] <Keybuk> we decided that wasn't our job title anymore
[19:50] <Keybuk> I'm "Ubuntu Desktop Team Manager" now
[19:50] <Keybuk> (since my team is now the desktop team, rather than the "red team")
[19:50] <AlexExtreme> heh
[19:51] <AlexExtreme> fine, fine: "Ubuntu's Desktop Team Manager hates Linux"
[19:51] <AlexExtreme> :p
[19:51] <Keybuk> Colin is the Ubuntu Platform Team Manager
[19:55] <AlexExtreme> I know I keep asking, but is there any possibility of a fully native upstart boot sequence getting into hardy?
[19:56] <AlexExtreme> or rather, keep asking after every ubuntu release
[20:23] <Keybuk> hardy? no
[20:31] <Amaranth> I've been asking that since edgy :P
[20:32] <Keybuk> remember, I'm not an ubuntu developer :p
[20:32] <Keybuk> Upstart is my spare time, personal project
[20:32] <Keybuk> so I'm more cautious than usual about "putting it in" simply because I know I don't have the time to fix it when it breaks
[20:51] <thom> Keybuk: is it likely that canonical will commit resources to upstart in a reasonable timescale?
[20:58] <Keybuk> thom: no idea, I'd probably be quite annoyed if they did since it's my project
[21:08] <thom> how can canonical justify *not* commiting any resources to their default init system?
[21:09] <thom> to put it more bluntly
[21:09] <Keybuk> Canonical didn't commit any resources to sysvinit when that was the Ubuntu default?
[21:10] <Keybuk> I don't think anybody does, in fact :-)
[21:10] <thom> they didn't write it, and more than just ubuntu used it by default
[21:10] <Keybuk> it seems like you're talking around a point you want to make?
[21:10] <thom> not really
[21:10] <thom> it just seems unfortunate that ubuntu has a chance to really lead something
[21:10] <thom> and isn't
[21:11] <Keybuk> Upstart development is slow mostly not because I don't have enough time
[21:11] <Keybuk> but because it involves solving hard problems
[21:11] <Keybuk> and nobody else seems interested in them
[21:13] <thom> i'll try and put my point better in a minute; i need to finish a classics essay first :)
[21:54] <Keybuk> ... :-)
[21:54] <thom> a minute was maybe hopeful
[21:55] <thom> references are PITA