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=== tonyy is now known as tonyyarusso
DM|Anyone else install hardy into VM have trouble with virtual kernel?01:18
DM|im testing things out in a VM, :)01:19
choudeshanyone run gotomypc with the icedtea-java7-plugin?01:27
mrAshleyJust out of curiosity.. is Hardy making it such that you can't ctrl+alt+f1(f2...etc) to a text-based virtual terminal?02:03
Toma-i hope not02:05
mrAshley(cause right now that's the case)02:06
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DM|Anyone else experiencing X server restarts every time you click on gnome panel?02:10
cps1966dont use gnome02:10
DM|cps1966: then obviously that question wasnt for you then02:10
cps1966kde nis fine on my eee pc02:10
DM|eee pc runs ubuntu ? nice02:11
cps1966well kubuntu anyway02:11
DM|same thing02:11
DM|just different DE's02:11
cps1966pick 1440x900 for screen02:12
DM|243 updates to install, so seeing if that fixes before i gather data for a bug02:12
h3sp4wnmrAshley: I cannot ctrl+alt+f102:12
h3sp4wnmrAshley: just goes back to X02:13
jgossbug #13175102:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131751 in xorg-server "Unable to switch Virtual Terminal with C-A-F[1-6] on Intel-based new laptop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13175102:13
jgossi suffer from that bug too :(02:13
cps1966hmm this has intell guts vid anyway02:14
cps1966works just fine with todays updates02:15
mrAshleymine is an i810, so is intel too. i thought it was rather a feature - though maybe inconvenient for power users02:18
jgossit's not specific to intel. it seems to be a consolekit problem.02:19
mrAshleyoic. :-)02:19
cps1966well mine works just fine02:19
cps1966i915 here02:20
mrAshleycps1966: you're missing out! ;)02:21
pwnguinanyone using iwl3945 with the .24 kernel?02:21
Hobbseeyeah.  not working.02:21
pwnguinideas why?02:21
Hobbseeno l-u-m02:21
Hobbseebut i'm not sure what they're doing with that now, they've been changing around the source packages02:22
pwnguinis that a seperate source upload from the kernel source package?02:22
=== valles_ is now known as effie_jayx
Hobbseepwnguin: it was prior to .24.  linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.2202:23
Hobbseeunsure what it is now02:23
pwnguini kinda wish someone would write on the planet what the hell the kernel team is up to02:24
cps1966all i know is this is the only distro besides xandros that will see my lan02:24
Hobbseepwnguin: why?02:25
Hobbseelurk in #ubuntu-kernel and see what happens.  *shrug*02:25
pwnguinHobbsee: because curious minds want to know02:25
cps1966even gutsy wont work02:25
pwnguin#ubuntu-kernel is a wasteland of inactivity02:25
Hobbseebesides, it's not like most people are running hardy, so it's kinda inappropriate for planet02:25
Hobbseeduring this sort of time, yeah02:25
pwnguinwell, that doesn't stop anyone from writing about their new favorite spec02:26
Hobbseesure, but users02:26
Hobbsee!= devs02:26
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about devs - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi02:26
pwnguinthat == "most people not running hardy"02:26
Hobbseeand the people tend to know who the users are :)02:26
Hobbseeer, teh devs are02:26
pwnguinHobbsee: by chance, do you have a TI sdcard reader?02:26
Toma-Id love to see some kernel team attention go towards https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/3185702:26
ubotuLaunchpad bug 31857 in linux-source-2.6.22 "r818x driver freezes randomly" [Medium,Confirmed]02:27
Hobbseepwnguin: a TI sdcard...no, i don't think so02:27
Hobbseemine's a ricoh02:27
HobbseeToma-: seeing as they're not here...02:27
pwnguinToma-: i think partly, there arent many members on the team02:27
Toma-its been in the last 3 releases02:27
cps1966i have sd card reader in this eee pc  and it works just fine02:28
* pwnguin also thinks writing about the ubuntu kernel to user/developers might attract people towards kernel development02:28
pwnguinthink of writing like recruitment02:28
Hobbseepwnguin: you'd need to recruit users with skill in kernel-areas - and i suspect a generic "come help us" post won't get that.02:28
Hobbseeerm, devs02:28
pwnguinof course not02:28
Toma-its getting worked on upstream02:29
pwnguinbut if you write about interesting things, at least people will read, and a few people may try to dive in02:29
Toma-just needs newer updates to the main kernel tree i thinks02:29
* Hobbsee is not on the kernel team02:29
cps1966hope not to many divers02:29
mrAshleyHey for hardy is the UI being redeveloped? Are we going to maybe rethink the two-tool bars idea?02:30
cps1966i hope so its a hassel going from one to the other02:31
Toma-the art team is a little stale, imho, so no.02:31
Hobbseethey seemed pretty active during their meeting02:31
cafuegotwo tool bars?02:31
Toma-in terms of fresh ideas02:31
Toma-theres alot of talk02:32
Hobbseecafuego: 2 panels02:32
Toma-theres going to be just 1 panel in ubuntustudio hardy02:32
mrAshleyToma-: It's more of a UI thing than an art thing. My roommate has a book on good UI design and it's gotten me thinking that there are a number of things that I'd like to address, but I can't program my way out of a wet paper bag.02:32
=== bur[n]er_ is now known as burner
cafuegoNot on my machine there isn't.02:32
Toma-mrAshley➔ art team handles the UI aswell02:33
mrAshleycafuego: naturally it can be edited, which is lovely, but default install should be as user-friendly as possible.02:33
* Hobbsee likes 2 panels. *shrug*02:34
hydrogenthe thing with ui's02:34
mrAshleyToma-: oic. (how'd you get that swish "->" arrow after my name?)02:34
Toma-mrAshley➔ magic :)02:34
hydrogenis its almost completely a "what I like better"02:34
mrAshleyToma-: show me show me show me!02:34
cafuegomrAshley: friendly for which user? ;-)02:35
mrAshleycafuego: friendly for someone who's never used it before. an example: a door with a panel means push, a door with a sticky outy handle means pull.02:36
cafuegoBut that's no reason to make the UI be Windows (or MacOS) though?02:37
Toma-2 panels is slightly original02:38
cps1966make it beos02:38
cafuegomrAshley: Case in point: Sugar (on the olpc)02:38
mrAshleythere are certain natural expectations that happen before higher-level comprehension. (like a sign which says pull)02:38
mrAshleycafuego: it shouldn't be different just to be different. Like imagine a door that opens from the bottom. Sure it's neat, but you have to bend all the way down to pull it up. Why do that just to be different?02:39
* hydrogen doesn't understand wtf doors have to do with panels02:39
hydrogenof course02:39
hydrogenyou are suggesting installing automatic panels02:39
hydrogenlike automatic doors02:39
hydrogenwhich I'm sure would be really cool02:39
hydrogenand impressive02:39
hydrogenand make digg02:40
* Hobbsee vaguely watches the bikeshedding02:40
hydrogenwhich means they are great02:40
* mrAshley is trying to compare two items which someone use.02:40
mrAshleysomeone >might< use.02:40
Toma-some butt ugly mockup made digg front page for heron. doesnt mean its going to be used02:40
hydrogenHobbsee: transluctent I think.02:41
* mrAshley sighs at digg(, despite being a slave to it.)02:41
Hobbseehydrogen: *g*02:41
cafuegomrAshley: As I understand it the two panels in Gnome offer additional functionality without filling one panel with icons to the point of uselessness.02:41
Hobbseehydrogen: i'd prefer rainbow02:41
hydrogenHobbsee: rainbow is so 90's :/02:41
hydrogentranslucency is the new buzz02:41
cafuegomrAshley: If I had to move mine into a single panel it would certainly become an ugly heap of icons02:42
hydrogenof course02:42
Hobbseespeaking of which, there's a nice panel glass thing on the artwork wiki02:42
hydrogenyou all could solve your panel problems02:42
Hobbseeonly works for bright themes, though02:42
hydrogenby switching to the only useful DE02:42
hydrogenkde, that is02:42
* Hobbsee was using kde02:42
* Hobbsee switched :P02:42
* hydrogen is going to stay away from kde4 for a while02:43
* FunnyLookinHat would love to test KDE4 right now, but no easy way to do it02:44
mrAshleycafuego: sure, but consider, for example, that in order for me to close a program I might click the [x] in the top right of a window, and on a maximized window that is right beside the shutdown button. It's easy for someone to accidentally click on the wrong one.02:44
FunnyLookinHatUnless...  is there an easy way to test KDE4 now rather than compiling from source?02:44
hydrogenbecause the desktop is about one hundred steps back02:44
hydrogenand yes, there are packages for kubuntu (so for ubuntu as well) gutsy02:45
cps1966FunnyLookinHat:  mandriva-cooker has it installed in opt02:45
cafuegomrAshley: So move the window control buttons to the left, like on a Mac :-)02:45
FunnyLookinHatcps1966, so...  I'd have to run mandriva    gross.02:45
mrAshleyin which case they're now near the application/places/system menus.02:46
Hobbseethere are hardy packages too02:46
FunnyLookinHatyeah, those packages are more of a sandbox though02:46
FunnyLookinHatnot a usable environment last time I checked02:47
cps1966i have 3.97 here02:47
mrAshleyI'm no apple-fanboy (quite the opposite) but I don't see why not shamlessly steal a good idea if it comes along!? ;)02:48
hydrogenbecause I've yet to see proof that it is a good idea02:48
hydrogenother than "I like it"02:48
hydrogenit got bikeshedded about for kde4 as well02:48
cps1966not crazy about kde4 menu layout though02:51
mrAshleywell I don't know about "proof" other than using design study information, but common sense and a bit of ingenuity could help put commonly used items in better places.02:51
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* cafuego notes that is possibly the philosophy that made microsoft end up with the mess that is the vista start/shutdown item02:54
cps1966if you shut it down you cant catch all the viruses02:56
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pwnguineven the page that the KernelTeam started to report to the community was over before it even started03:42
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underwatercowWas there an update the removed the games? :p04:18
mrAshleyyes, and the office.04:19
mrAshley*open office04:19
RAOFNot if you were careful :)04:19
underwatercowlooks like writer is still installed04:19
mrAshleyRAOF: does "careful" include putting back Gutsy? ;)04:21
RAOFmrAshley: No, just checking what aptitude wants to remove when you run "sudo aptitude full-upgrade", and hitting "no" until it does'nt want to remove anything you care about :)04:23
mrAshleyRAOF: I used synaptic.. :P I've never upgraded to a fully alpha release before. :) I just assumed it would be sane-ish..04:24
underwatercowwhat was the reason the games disappeared?04:25
underwatercownot that I played many of them anyway04:25
RAOFmrAshley: That's an incorrect assumption :)04:26
RAOFIt's quite likely that ubuntu-desktop will be uninstallable at least a couple more times before we hit stable.04:26
mrAshleyRAOF: That's a redundant claim, at this point. ;)  But thank you for it regardless.04:26
RAOFEach one of those times synaptic will remove programs if you hit 'upgrade'.04:26
underwatercowwill it install them back on its own eventually? lol04:27
RAOFunderwatercow: Only if you re-install ubuntu-desktop, or the particular program yourself.04:27
RAOFIt's not automatic.04:27
underwatercowwell then why did they remove?04:27
underwatercowwas a dependency changed?04:28
RAOFYup.  Or a new package was uploaded that breaks older versions of some other package, or a name change, or...04:28
underwatercowI guess that'll teach me to pay more attention to updates04:29
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Jeeves_Hi there!12:37
Jeeves_The X-breakage, is that still the case?12:38
IdleOneguess if we have any questions we can ask you12:38
IdleOnewhat x breakage?12:38
Jeeves_IdleOne: See the topic :)12:38
Jeeves_Welcome to #ubuntu+1 "Home of the Hardy Heron" and X breakage12:38
Jeeves_I can work with bugs, but I prefer to use X :)12:39
IdleOnex works fine here12:39
Jeeves_IdleOne: In that, case... I'll give it a try. :)12:40
Jeeves_'Installing the upgrades'12:45
Jeeves_!fast mirror++12:45
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about fast mirror++ - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi12:45
dholbachMOTU Q&A session in 11 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom12:49
=== Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee
sharpiei can't install mp3 codecs14:39
bazhangin Hardy sharpie?14:42
sharpieyeah, that's why i'm here =o14:42
bazhangok--just wanted to make sure you weren't in the wrong channel14:42
bazhangis vlc available? haven't checked the repos lately14:43
Jeeves_I just upgraded14:43
Jeeves_Some weird error with sudo not being able to resolve my hostname14:44
sharpiei just press the search codecs btn, it shows the small window with the progress bar and then the window disappears and nothing happens14:44
Jeeves_And some slocate stuff, but other than that it was ok14:44
sharpieis anyone even able to install mp3 codecs?14:46
Jeeves_sharpie: Which package should that be ?14:46
sharpiei have no idea14:46
bazhangsharpie: I'll boot up my machine and give it a try14:47
sharpieJeeves_: i just press the search button when the codecs unavailable button appears14:47
sharpiethat's how i installed in gutsy14:47
Aondothe fscheck at the 24th boot freezes at about 70-85%, is there a way to interrupt it befor it freeze? :P14:48
bazhangis anyone running as their day to day system?14:51
sharpiei got my mp3 working14:52
bazhangsharpie: How?14:52
sharpiei installed gstreamer-fluendo-mp3 (or something similar)14:52
sharpiemanually installed from aptitude14:52
bazhangok i'm using kde14:52
sharpiebazhang: shouldn't you be in #kubuntu then? :o14:53
bazhangxine iirc in my case14:53
bazhangsharpie: haha well kde users don't have a #kubuntu+1 channel14:53
sharpiebazhang: cause KDE sucks =D14:54
hydrogenthats obviously the reason14:54
bazhanghaha opinions differ on that one14:54
hydrogenthere isn't a ubuntu channel for gutsy + kde on irc because the kde desktop sucks14:54
bazhangI like them all14:54
sharpiewho do you think will win in a fight between RMS and linux torvalds?14:54
hydrogenthat makes perfect sense logically14:54
hydrogenwhy didn't I ever make that connection before14:55
bazhanghe should change his name haha14:55
sharpiestallman's huge, and he's cool and stuff14:55
hydrogenstallman cool?14:55
sharpieand linus is skinny and lame =o14:55
hydrogenif you go for the zealotty type14:55
sharpiehydrogen: he lectured in Yale uni wearing a T-shirt14:55
sharpiewhile being bearfoot14:56
sharpieif that's not cool i dunno what is14:56
sharpie+he was attacked by ninjas there :P14:56
hydrogenthat doesn't change his zealot status14:56
hydrogenwhich is quite riddiculous14:56
hydrogenallz I need to say is that every "new" feature in gnome over the last four or five releases has already been in kde for a while14:57
sharpieyeah but gnome pwns so much that even linus made patches to it :P14:57
hydrogenand usually has a lot more features in kde14:58
sharpiebut kde is ugly :\14:58
bazhangthis system (hardy) feels noticeably faster on the same hardware than Gutsy14:58
bazhangsharpie: they are the same except for one package14:58
sharpieactually, funny thing is, hardy boots in 20 seconds on VBox14:58
sharpiewhich is the exact same amount of time gutsy takes to boot14:59
Lunksactually afaik Linus consider gnome as not so good desktop enviroment14:59
bazhangon my install its like 5 seconds or something crazy like that :}14:59
sharpiebazhang: did you like...cancel all the processes and boot to a terminal?14:59
WorkingOnWiseis Compiz Settings Manager and the cf tray icon broke for the time being?15:00
bazhangsharpie: nope the usual kde login15:01
bazhangthis release will rock the linux world--seriously15:01
sharpiebazhang: does kde really boot that much faster than gnome? :S15:01
bazhangsharpie: they both boot faster; I may go for a dual boot of kubuntu and ubuntu to compare though :}15:02
sharpiebazhang: what's ur system specs?15:02
bazhangsharpie: core duo thinkpad intel 945 video gma 2 gb ram15:03
sharpiebazhang: hm15:03
sharpiebazhang: you shouldn't boot THAT much faster than me15:03
bazhangsharpie: kubuntu gutsy was much slower on this machine15:03
bazhangmaybe ten seconds plus you are in vm15:04
WorkingOnWisebazhang: do u boot off a SSD?15:04
sharpiebazhang: i have an amd athlon X2 4800+, 2gb CL4 ram, geforce 8600GT+15:04
sharpienot the best on the market but certainly reasonable15:04
bazhangno, just a regular hdd WorkingOnWise15:04
bazhangsharpie: but this in a vm for you right?15:04
Lunksmay I ask, what's 'CL4'?15:05
sharpiebazhang: um, it's some kind of latency, the lower the CL the faster15:05
sharpieoops, Lunks15:05
bazhangdoes medibuntu have hardy repos yet?15:05
sharpieLunks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency15:06
dr_evil2I updated hardy and now the GUI deadlocks after about 5 minutes of useage, ctrl+alt+bs doesn't work, numlock doesn't work anymore, but mouse cursor still does mode15:06
dr_evil2any idea on that?15:07
sharpieum, does anyone know how to move from GNOME to KDE?15:07
sharpiei wanna try KDE on my VM15:07
bazhanginstall kubuntu-desktop15:08
sharpiebazhang: no, i wanna move on my existing installation15:08
sharpiebazhang: i know it's possible, i just dunno how =o15:08
bazhangsharpie: kde only?15:08
sharpiebazhang: what do u mean kde only :S15:09
bazhangsharpie: download the kubuntu iso or use gnome and kde in the same vm? choose by session that is15:09
sharpiebazhang: no, i mean, use kde instead of gnome15:10
sharpiebazhang: i'll google a bit =o15:10
bazhangsharpie: install kubuntu-desktop, then in the login window under session choose kde15:10
sharpiebazhang: i don't wanna download the entire OS again15:10
bazhangsharpie: kubuntu-desktop is a big amount of packages though :}15:11
bazhangsharpie: no need to install a new system15:11
sharpiebazhang: yeah, well, i might do it later15:11
sharpiebazhang: downloading from BT atm..not much bandwidth to spare15:11
WorkingOnWisesharpie: afaik, if u install kubuntu desktop, you get all of kubuntu, and ubuntu too. the only diff between them is kubuntu is ubuntu on the kde Destop Enviroment. the kernel and adrivers, all non gui code is the same for both15:12
sharpieWorkingOnWise: yeah i know =o15:12
WorkingOnWiseso I musta missed something..15:12
sharpiehow about if i install kde?15:13
sharpielike, aptitude install kde15:13
WorkingOnWisesharpie: are u asking if that gives u kubuntu?15:14
bazhangsharpie: kubuntu-desktop15:14
sharpiebazhang: but what about kde >_<15:14
bazhangno medibuntu repos right now for hardy :{15:14
Lunksbazhang: just use gutsy ones, no problem on it15:15
bazhangsharpie: you want to use the kde desktop?15:15
bazhangLunks: cheers!15:15
sharpiebazhang: yes15:15
sharpiebazhang: damnit i'll install kubuntu-desktop then >.<15:15
bazhangthen that's the way sharpie want a link to confirm it?15:15
sharpiebazhang: nah, no need15:16
WorkingOnWisesharpie: think Camaro/Firebird15:16
WorkingOnWisesame chassis, engine, drive train...15:16
sharpieWorkingOnWise: WHAT?! :|15:17
WorkingOnWisechanger to the body and trim make the m unique15:17
sharpieare you talking about cars? :|15:17
bazhanghttp://www.watchingthenet.com/switch-between-gnome-and-kde-desktops-in-ubuntu-or-kubuntu.html sharpie15:17
WorkingOnWisebazhang: yeah...thats what I said  :)15:17
bazhangWorkingOnWise: you are wise indeed :}15:18
bazhangsharpie: and make sure to choose 'make kde default' :}15:19
sharpiebazhang: lol, only going to try it on hardy15:19
h3sp4wnThey are unique but not really in any useful way15:20
sharpieirssi is so much better than xchat :D15:23
avatar_sharpie: you know /disco voor disco colours in irssi?15:29
sharpieavatar_: i have no idea what you just said15:31
avatar_ /disco gives nice colors in irssi :)15:32
sharpieavatar_: before i try it, how do i cancel it? \:15:32
=== ktogias_ is now known as ktogias
sharpieok, thx15:35
sharpieit disconnects15:35
sharpiechecked it on another terminal >_>15:35
sharpieu suck >_>15:35
sharpiei hate ppl who do that crap in irc :/15:35
sharpielike the ppl who tell you to do /server accept15:36
Lunksthe only funny one's "Press ALT+F4 to see my photo"15:36
sharpienever seen that one15:36
sharpiepeople are much more likely to fall for /server accept than alt+F415:37
bazhangso will using the medibuntu repos now in hardy (the ones for gutsy) create problems down the line? I just want the one package--so no real need to even enable the repos I suppose15:38
=== dr_evil2 is now known as dr_evil
LimCorehello devels16:02
LimCorehow about make ubuntu to include some good jabber client16:02
Tm_Twhat's wrong with Kopete?16:03
LimCoreinstead including sucky clients, how about including one really comfortable16:03
Tm_TLimCore: like?16:03
LimCorekopete is bug ridden;16:03
LimCorepidgin would be ok, but obvious thing like gnutifications are 1) not enabled   2) used brain dead skin that do not present the message   by default16:04
LimCorejust fix the default and it will be close to commerciall solutions in terms of beeing comfortable, imho16:04
Tm_TLimCore: anyway, file a bug if there's not one already16:05
LimCoreTm_T: kopete likes to crashes now and then,  try GPG encryption and it shows encrypted text and/or HTML in some parts;  administrating groups have issues, simmilar marking chats16:05
Tm_TLimCore: I have no issues16:06
LimCoreTm_T: I'm excelent beta tester16:06
Tm_TLimCore: then please provide bug reports thanks16:06
LimCoregive me any version of any program, I will find bugs in it, unless its hello world16:06
Tm_TI know16:07
jgossthe pidgin issues should be filed upstream. since i think ubuntu just uses the default settings.16:07
LimCoreTm_T: where exacly to report them, to have them fixed in next ubuntu?  if upstream will be too bussy16:07
Tm_TLimCore: upstream and/or bugs.ubuntu.com ?16:07
LimCorejgoss: upstream people are usually too lazy16:07
Tm_TLimCore: anyway, finding bugs is only lesser half of beta testing16:07
Tm_Tthey need to be properly reported16:08
jgossi don't think they are lazy. they just don't place much value on the libnotify/guification part.16:08
LimCoreif you want to have something fix you usually have to just do it... I can perhaps be devel of say ubuntu,  but not devel in 100 different projectws right? :)  and ubuntu pathces can be given to upstream16:08
LimCorejgoss: I was talking in general here;   and ignoring user needs is 2nd popular problem16:08
LimCorejgoss: there probably is reason why most programs have bubble popups (from Skype to Kadu/Gadu-Gadu)16:09
jgossi don't use it often. i'm just saying it would probably have to be dealt upstream.16:09
* dr_evil is happy with ubunut as long as X doesn't freeze16:09
dr_eviland perhaps when keystrokes arent lost ;)16:10
Tm_TLimCore: anyway, thanks for your interest :)16:10
Tm_TLimCore: usability is one of biggest things in Ubuntu16:10
LimCorejgoss: it is so cool that I have to stop programming, move mouse, and click, to see what someone is writting to me. If only the corporations now, but they keep taking that fun away from users ;)16:10
jgossi don't argue against that.16:10
LimCoreor alt tab away from my pressious code, its just wrong16:11
jgossi would prefer notifications also.16:11
LimCoreubuntu pollicy is to apply patches (both code and settings) to apps right?16:11
LunksI've been hanging around on #pidgin and most likely no notifier will ever be on pidgin by default16:11
LimCorejgoss: even more, default skins are useless in gnutifications... they show only "Foo messages you" .. but do not show the most imporatnt part - body of message16:12
Lunksat least that's what devs state16:12
LimCoreLunks: yes, that is why I written that most devels are laz^H too bussy, and not caring so much about users needs16:12
LimCoreis ubutnu a distro that can be fixing such things for itself at least?16:12
jgossi preferred libnotify when i used pidgin.16:12
Lunkseven if I disagree, I don't believe this is really about being lazy/not caring about users needs16:13
LimCorejgoss: well, having it working in either tehcnical way would be good16:13
Tomcat_libnotify is cool. :)16:13
dr_evilLimCore why don't ou just install your prefered messenger app?16:13
LimCoredr_evil: I couldn't find any _good_ jabber or multi client16:13
LimCoreand it's irritating that commerciall/propertiary apps are ahead, so I would like to change it, since we are so close in some places its matter of few options16:14
Tomcat_LimCore: I'm perfectly happy with Pidgin/libnotify... I'm even installing it for my Windows friends. :-)16:14
Lunksbad thing about pidgin is its slow developing, not lazyness. I'm not a coder, but I was chatting about it recently. I'm an ex-windows user (like almost everyone else) and used Miranda IM, which is like Pidgin/Trillian. It's open-source also and amazes me on how Pidgin/Miranda relates when comes to new code/new stuff16:15
Tomcat_LimCore: I guess the problem is rather that people might not agree with your decision. I know a lot of people that like pidgin.16:15
LimCoreTomcat_: it didnt work on debian afair... how to use it? install libnotify plugin, and then what? to have popups, WITH message, when certail (selected) people are writting to me16:15
LunksNo matter what, Pidgin is always behind, in philosophy or code itself16:15
LimCoreTomcat_: again, 99% of users of biggest messangers have this type of notifications active, and I guess most like it16:15
dr_evilLimCore I see. I usually use my win2k notebook for ICQ/MSN, and linux just as fileserver and for coding16:15
Tomcat_LimCore: Install pidgin-libnotify, enable the plugin. No advanced things like "only selected people" though.16:16
LimCoreTomcat_: so I will be annoyed with "foo gone online/offline" for each of my 100 contacts instead of 10 important16:16
Tomcat_LimCore: Yes, and I agree with you that libnotify should be installed and enabled by default, which is easy. However, I don't agree that the default free software messengers are bad.16:16
LimCoreand message from my lover will instantly popup on my desktop?   [Popup1: Boss, yes send the data"  [Popup2: Mmm I would live to suck you now]   CEO: wtf dude are you doing?16:17
LimCorethat is brilliant16:17
Tomcat_LimCore: Kinda, yes. Sorry for that. :-) I got 50 buddies and it works out quite well.16:17
LimCorefor me the above solutions suck, what can I do about it?16:18
jgossmaybe make a spec about it.16:18
LimCorehow/where to do it exacly?16:18
Tomcat_LimCore: Install another program... suggest your features to the developers of the app and/or write out bounties (offering money).16:18
* LimCore blackmails some devels16:19
Tomcat_I agree that the free software suggestions process is not ideal, but that's what we have. :o16:19
LimCoreTomcat_: which program fully supports advanced notifications?16:19
LimCoreno, I think it totally sucks, and here is why:16:19
Tomcat_LimCore: No idea. Didn't you say you know commercial solutions?16:19
LimCoreyeah skype... but I prefer jabb16:20
LimCoreKadu (open verion of gadu-gadu) have awesome notifications16:20
jgossLimCore,  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ you can create a new spec there.16:20
LimCoreamong with about 50 configuration options for all subsystems, now that is a good code16:20
LimCoreit was done like 3 years ago16:20
Tomcat_50 conf options is really not my idea of good. :-)16:21
LimCoreTomcat_: with [x] advanced16:21
Tomcat_Oh, alright then. :D16:21
LimCoreand other programs are so behind this small polish application Kadu, wtf16:21
LimCorejgoss: ok16:21
Tomcat_I think the problem is that you think free software development works like commercial development (or should work like it), while that's far from the truth.16:22
LimCoreyeap, it lacks quality therefore16:22
Tomcat_We're not always competing with anyone, neither with commercial apps nor with other free software apps.16:22
Tomcat_We're not trying to gain market share.16:22
LimCorewhat is the end result for users?16:23
Tomcat_We're not trying to be best, but also experiment.16:23
Tomcat_The goal is to create free software the way the developers see fit.16:23
LimCoreinstead users16:23
Tomcat_The end result are applications that some people like and some people don't like.16:23
LimCorebecause it's make for devels, not users16:23
LimCoreI hoped ubutnu tried to overcome this?16:23
jgossdevelopers are users also. but there always room for improvement.16:24
Tomcat_Yes, but Ubuntu are not the ones developing instant messengers.16:24
jgossjust a lack of resources for a lot of projects.16:24
Tomcat_Everybody in free software has their own personal goals.16:24
* LimCore puts a resource tag on self16:24
Tomcat_Some people will develop awesome applications.16:24
skyfalcon866when alpha 2 comes will i have to download a new cd image or could i upgrade to it?16:24
LunksI believe that's what's all about. :P16:24
Tomcat_But some people will just develop something that works and is horrible to use.16:24
LunksPidgin doesn't feel like being up to commercial apps.16:24
LunksUnlike Miranda, for example.16:24
LimCoreif there are resouces to fix an IM to be usable, then what?  assume there is a .patch to do it.  How it is easy to give that to  a) all ubuntu users  b) all linux users16:24
Tomcat_If people stop using bad free software (like you suggest), the developers have the freedom to continue developing bad software, or they can change course. But nobody forces them to.16:25
LunksIt's free, but it intends to go against pidgin/trillian as a multi im16:25
LimCoreok, so which jabber client is _good_ then16:25
Tomcat_LimCore: Add the patch to the software, package it, put it into a repository or try to get it into universe.16:25
LimCoreadvanced notifcations, filtering, logging, and shit16:26
Tomcat_LimCore: That's a total subjective question. I love pidgin as my jabber client.16:26
jgosswatch the language =]16:26
LimCoreoh btw reason to not use kopete: it takes 10 minutes (?!?!?!?!!!!) to open the log, on dual core 2ghz16:26
skyfalcon866when alpha 2 comes will i have to download a new cd image or could i upgrade to it?16:26
Tomcat_skyfalcon866: You can just update... no big difference for alpha 2.16:26
skyfalcon866is it safe to dual boot alpha with stable ubuntu16:27
Tomcat_skyfalcon866: Yes.16:27
skyfalcon86610gigs of space enough for alpha ?16:27
hydrogenunless hardy comes with a broken version of grub!16:27
Tomcat_skyfalcon866: Yep. Depends on your usage though.. 5 GB should be enough for a basic version and no data. :)16:28
skyfalcon866ok will use jfs to minimize usage16:28
Tomcat_hydrogen: Yeah, I just hope that won't happen. :D16:28
skyfalcon866less overhead than ext316:28
skyfalcon866where do i report bugs in kubuntu16:30
ubotuIf you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots16:31
Tomcat_LimCore: If you really want to change something, my suggestion is to discuss changes on the project mailing lists (asking devs & users about their thoughts) or offer a bounty (with some money). A bounty could also initiate a totally new messenger project...16:31
LimCoreTomcat_: perhaps a business model would be good to get funds for development?16:31
Tomcat_LimCore: The business model of most IT companies makes less sense than the free software development model. ;)16:32
LimCorethat must be why everyone uses wengopone or crashable ekiga, instead skype16:33
Tomcat_LimCore: Also, free software projects need leadership and management... so you might just as well try to become leader of such a project. Problem is that most people won't do what you want if you don't do coding yourself... because that's still a big amount of work.16:33
skyfalcon866where would i upload a new version of a program?16:34
Tomcat_LimCore: I know how to code, and I would gladly help in creating an "uber messenger" (if I had the time). But there's no project aiming to do this, and I personally don't see a need for this anyway, because I like pidgin. :D16:34
LimCoreTomcat_: how to have popups, for given people, showing me what they written16:35
LimCore*baloon popups16:35
Tomcat_LimCore: I completely understand your problems here, but the thing is that you try to apply commercial development to free software projects, and that won't work. If you don't like free software, you are free not to use it.16:35
dr_eviland again, GUI is completely frozen. I'm logged in with telnet, and compiz.real is using 100% CPU. any one can help me?16:35
LimCoreTomcat_: is there at least a payable solution, on linux16:35
LimCoreif not, then I guess something is wrong... no good free apps nor payable ones even16:36
Tomcat_LimCore: As I said, I don't know about most messengers... I use pidgin and I'm quite happy.16:36
jgossdr_evil, can you killall compiz.real over telnet?16:36
LimCoreTomcat_: what if someone would code patches to make thoes parts mentioned more user friendly16:36
Tomcat_LimCore: ... then you could create packages out of it and make them available to the Ubuntu users. Good solution imho.16:37
h3sp4wnLimCore: You can use BitlBee16:37
dr_eviljgoss no it keeps running16:37
h3sp4wnThen everything just goes into your irc client (I would say that is perfectly user friendly)16:37
LimCoreok cool16:37
LimCoresee u later16:37
Tomcat_LimCore: It has actually happened sometimes... if a project doesn't work the way most people would like, it forks = there are two versions going into seperate directions.16:37
jgossdr_evil, does killall -9 compiz.real work?16:37
dr_evilyes that killed it16:38
LimCoreTomcat_: but can it be made default easly for ubutnu users, or are there tons of bureucracy and incopetence to block it16:38
h3sp4wnLimCore: people have different definitions of easy16:38
Tomcat_LimCore: No, it's quite straightforward... find (or create) a solution, present it as a specification (see link from jgoss), then discuss with Ubuntu devs to include it.16:39
LimCoreh3sp4wn: so ask user at installation:   [x] enable nice notifications (Skype/gtalk style)    Note: you can change that in configuration->plugins16:39
h3sp4wnLimCore: nice is not defined either16:40
dr_eviljgoss GUI works again, anything I should report as bugreport?16:40
h3sp4wnfor me nice is the settings somewhere in ~/.* that I can find with grep and change - I can never remember where anything is in gui's16:41
Tomcat_LimCore: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/usb-connect-notification <--- See this spec... it's about popups when a user connects a USB device. This way you could get messenger popups into Ubuntu.16:41
LimCoreTomcat_: ok, so just lets make pidgin use that16:41
LimCorewith advanced config options16:41
jgossdr_evil,  check if it's been reported first. there are a lot of compiz bugs.16:41
LimCoreor include sender to notifiy event and filter notif-server side16:42
Tomcat_LimCore: Problem is that there's no (coded) solution for what you want... libnotify popups have no advanced settings.16:42
dr_evilwhy is compiz even running? the system is running in vesa mode anyway16:42
LimCoreomg libnotify is also not developed O_o ?16:42
* LimCore bangs head16:42
h3sp4wnTomcat_: I dunno why the popups are good - If it just add's it to /media/foo and adds an icon to the desktop I don't see what the popup achieves16:42
Tomcat_h3sp4wn: I just took that as an example, not because I support it. ;)16:43
Tomcat_h3sp4wn: I wouldn't like too many popups either... if I plug in a USB device, it starts working... if I plug it in, why should I be notified that I just plugged it in? ;D16:43
Tomcat_h3sp4wn: No need to go all the way XP ;D16:44
h3sp4wnTomcat_: Exactly (Solaris does this quite well and still has gnome)16:44
Tomcat_"Info: You just put something in the trash!" ;P16:44
LimCorehttp://www.galago-project.org/docs/api/libnotify/annotated.html  huh not very advanced...?16:44
Tomcat_"Info: You just copied a file"16:44
LimCorehttp://www.galago-project.org/docs/api/libgalago/annotated.php  also not very good16:45
Tomcat_LimCore: That's libnotify... it's the pidgin plugin that's not advanced.16:45
h3sp4wnTomcat_: I am more interested in the telepathy spec but to me that is just a super advanced zshrc16:45
LimCorethis above are the fremeworks you mentionned?16:45
dr_evil"Info: dev/sda1 is almost full"16:45
Tomcat_LimCore: libnotify is a library for popups, yes.16:45
h3sp4wn(Getting closer to it bit by bit)16:45
Tomcat_h3sp4wn: Any good ones you can suggest? I like the telepathy stuff, but I haven't seen much progress the last 6 months.16:46
Tomcat_LimCore: libnotify can display *anything*... the question is: What should pidgin send to libnotify. And that's where an advanced config has to be.16:46
h3sp4wnzstyle ':completion:*:*:kill:*' menu yes select \n zstyle ':completion:*:kill:*'   force-list always (I haven't got it working with sudo yet though but it lets you tab complete kill)16:47
Tomcat_h3sp4wn: Where's the connection to telepathy? :o16:48
h3sp4wnI only spend short bits of time messing with it - but if it was done properly then the commandline should just autocomplete all the time16:48
h3sp4wnTomcat_: The shell knowing what you want16:48
h3sp4wnand presenting it in a nice way16:48
Tomcat_h3sp4wn: Oh you mean telepathy like "thought transfer"... I thought you were talking about the telepathy technology (zero configuration service detection or something)16:48
Tomcat_h3sp4wn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepathy_%28software%29 ;)16:49
Tomcat_LimCore: Btw, that's the page of the pidgin plugin... http://sourceforge.net/projects/gaim-libnotify16:51
LimCorefirefox flash is broken btw16:52
LimCorethx Tomcat_16:52
bazhangwould it be advisable to check medibuntu for updates every so often for packages installed from there, or do they remain fairly static? the packages in question are libdvdcss2 and win32codecs16:53
h3sp4wnbazhang: Debian-multimedia updates win32codecs every so often16:54
h3sp4wnSometimes the available ones recommended by ubuntu are older (but I just wget the deb from debian-multimedia)16:54
bazhangh3sp4wn: cheers! will check every so often then--not that I will be playing many dvds on this machine--nice to know nonetheless :}16:54
h3sp4wnbazhang: I take it you got your ee working right now ?17:05
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bazhangh3sp4wn: sure do; perhaps a custom version of hardy would be nice for it--trying a pclinuxos remaster on it atm :}17:12
h3sp4wnbazhang: Only problem with that patch for madwifi is it breaks all non x86 targets so it won't be added17:14
bazhangh3sp4wn: well there is that :] I actually tried gutsy on it a while back and apart from wireless it was very nice17:15
h3sp4wnbazhang: I doubt they are willing to have a whole new version of madwifi just for the eepc in the default kernel17:15
h3sp4wn(Unless they sell an obscene amount)17:16
bazhangh3sp4wn: that's true--though some debian devs are cooking something up right (a private project hehe)17:16
bazhangerr right now17:16
LimCorewhere the hell is mount in ubuntu?17:40
LimCorethe reall mount, with -C -S options17:40
Tm_Tnot in hell atleast17:40
LimCore(erm, losetup actually)17:40
LimCorehmm how about installing loop-aes-utils by default? it's triny anyway17:41
h3sp4wnLimCore: the "real" mount ? is the ubuntu one imaginary17:41
LimCoreh3sp4wn: default one is encryptions challanged17:42
roewhat is the name of the package comes pre-installed in ubuntu that manages photo libraries?17:43
LimCorethe default ubuntu kernel seems to provide only one loop /dev/loop0 ?  how to spawn more loops?17:44
roesorry wrong channel17:44
LimCoresorry never mind... there are 8 loops17:45
* LimCore slaps self17:47
LimCorelosetup -T -e aes-256 /dev/loop7 -C 1000 -Sfoo ./data.img   --->  ioctl: LOOP_SET_STATUS: Invalid argument, requested cipher or key length (256 bits) not supported by kernel17:52
LimCoreany idea?17:52
LimCore /proc/crypto   shows  aes  with max keysize  : 3217:53
LimCorelaunchpad.net is quite pretty :)17:58
sharpieuh, i installed kubuntu-desktop and all its dependencies (around 250mbs) and now i removed kubuntu-desktop but it only removed that single package, how can i remove all the other KDE programs that came with it? :/18:02
Tm_Tsharpie: see topic18:02
sharpie...Also, I did that on hardy heron.18:03
sharpiehappy now Tm_T ?18:03
Tm_Tsharpie: nah, you ask "newbie" support for something in (pre)alpha state, I'm far from happy18:03
Tm_Tsharpie: anyway, you'll have better luck in #kubuntu or #ubuntu18:04
sharpiewell, i'd ask in #ubuntu but i did it in hardy, different repos and all =o18:04
Tm_Tsharpie: also small recommendation, if you can't handle simple package management, reconsider using unreleased alpha/beta software18:05
Tm_Tsharpie: anyway, I hope you get help to your problem, good luck18:05
sharpieTm_T: if it's so simple why can't you just tell me the solution?18:06
Tm_Toff ->18:06
h3sp4wnsharpie: Just use aptitude18:06
sharpieh3sp4wn: yes, but how do i know which packages it installed :/18:06
sharpieh3sp4wn: i don't wanna go 1 package at a time18:06
h3sp4wnsharpie: aptitude purge kdelibs-data kdelibs4c2a18:07
sharpieh3sp4wn: thanks.18:08
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LimCoreis loopaes broken in amd64 version?18:17
h3sp4wnYou tell us18:23
Lunksh3sp4wn: hey, looks like it was all my ram's fault18:23
Lunksnot hardy kernel.18:23
h3sp4wnLunks: I had recently some subtle ram errors18:23
LunksI booted to windows and after using it for sometime, it started rebooting. :P18:23
h3sp4wnMassively irritating as because it was only in 1500-2000Mb range and I was using xfce at the time - it corrupted tons of stuff18:24
h3sp4wn(including the backups)18:24
Lunkstoo bad =P18:26
h3sp4wnLunks: I will never buy anything other than corsair (for workstations) and whatever the recommended ECC for the board is for a server18:28
LunksI've got a kingston18:28
Lunks2x512mb kingston ddr 40018:29
LunksI switched one of them to a generic 512mb one18:29
Lunksand it's working great now, which is kinda ironic. :P18:29
h3sp4wnLunks: Did memtest86 find the error ?18:36
Lunksh3sp4wn: never used it. :P Should I? =P18:40
h3sp4wnLunks: Well thats what its for18:40
Lunkshaha ok, I'll try it18:41
LimCoreis it just me, or loop aes do not work in amd64 ubuntu?18:53
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cps1966anyone got eee pc kubuntu works just fine on them hardy does19:29
LimCoreanyone here have amd64 ubuntu 7.10 please?  I want to try one quick thing:   (as root) touch ./asdf.img && losetup  /dev/loop -e aes-256 ./asdf.img     input any long text like asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfadsfasdfdasf  and did it worked or reported kernel error?19:35
albert23LimCore: /dev/loop: No such file or directory19:40
LimCorealbert23: /dev/loop219:41
LimCoreor any other19:42
albert23LimCore: with loop0 I get ioctl: LOOP_SET_STATUS: Invalid argument19:42
LimCoreI was expected other bug, can you paste exact command which you executed?19:44
albert23touch ./asdf.img && losetup  /dev/loop0 -e aes-256 ./asdf.img19:44
LimCoreioctl: LOOP_SET_STATUS: Invalid argument, requested cipher or key length (256 bits) not supported by kernel19:44
LimCorethis bug?19:44
LimCoreor a bit other message?19:45
albert23just the first part, exactly like I pasted19:45
LimCorealbert23: interesting19:51
LimCoreI reproted the bug as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/loop-aes-utils/+bug/174738  any input or comments?19:51
ubotuLaunchpad bug 174738 in loop-aes-utils "ioctl: LOOP_SET_STATUS: Invalid argument, requested cipher or key length (256 bits) not supported by kernel" [Undecided,New]19:51
albert23LimCore: no, it doesn't say much to me. cat /proc/crypto looks similar, nut I only have md5 and aes19:55
LimCorealbert23: also amd64 and same kernel?19:55
albert23yes, same date for the kernel19:55
LimCoredo you have loop-aes-utils installed?19:56
albert23That did it: ioctl: LOOP_SET_STATUS: Invalid argument, requested cipher or key length (256 bits) not supported by kernel19:57
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LimCorethanks albert2319:59
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databuddyi wont be back20:48
databuddyi'm tired of ignorant fucking ops20:48
dr_evilhas anyone tested sata hotplugging of harddisks? does it work?20:51
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DanaGksmserver: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/kde4/lib/libplasma.so.1: undefined symbol: _ZN15KConfigSkeleton11setDefaultsEv22:03
DanaGI'd expect brokenness as in stuff not working properly, but missing symbols?22:04
DanaGWell, I'll just have to try it again some time later.22:04
bernierHi, has anyone got fglrx + hardy working?22:07
DanaGTrying 2.6.24 kernel?  Neither nvidia nor ATI (fglrx) will compile with it.22:07
DanaGI just went back to
berniersupposed to work?22:08
DanaGI don't have ATI, so I can't help beyond there, unfortunately.22:08
DanaGAnd I'm going to go to lunch.22:08
berniergood appetite22:09
=== Spec is now known as x-spec-t

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