=== T1m0thy_ is now known as T1m0thy === tonyy is now known as tonyyarusso [01:18] Anyone else install hardy into VM have trouble with virtual kernel? [01:19] im testing things out in a VM, :) [01:27] anyone run gotomypc with the icedtea-java7-plugin? [02:03] Just out of curiosity.. is Hardy making it such that you can't ctrl+alt+f1(f2...etc) to a text-based virtual terminal? [02:05] i hope not [02:06] (cause right now that's the case) === tonyy is now known as tonyyarusso [02:10] Anyone else experiencing X server restarts every time you click on gnome panel? [02:10] dont use gnome [02:10] cps1966: then obviously that question wasnt for you then [02:10] kde nis fine on my eee pc [02:11] eee pc runs ubuntu ? nice [02:11] well kubuntu anyway [02:11] same thing [02:11] just different DE's [02:12] pick 1440x900 for screen [02:12] 243 updates to install, so seeing if that fixes before i gather data for a bug [02:12] mrAshley: I cannot ctrl+alt+f1 [02:13] mrAshley: just goes back to X [02:13] bug #131751 [02:13] Launchpad bug 131751 in xorg-server "Unable to switch Virtual Terminal with C-A-F[1-6] on Intel-based new laptop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131751 [02:13] i suffer from that bug too :( [02:14] hmm this has intell guts vid anyway [02:15] works just fine with todays updates [02:18] mine is an i810, so is intel too. i thought it was rather a feature - though maybe inconvenient for power users [02:19] it's not specific to intel. it seems to be a consolekit problem. [02:19] oic. :-) [02:19] well mine works just fine [02:20] i915 here [02:21] cps1966: you're missing out! ;) [02:21] anyone using iwl3945 with the .24 kernel? [02:21] yeah. not working. [02:21] ideas why? [02:21] no l-u-m [02:22] but i'm not sure what they're doing with that now, they've been changing around the source packages [02:22] is that a seperate source upload from the kernel source package? === valles_ is now known as effie_jayx [02:23] pwnguin: it was prior to .24. linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 [02:23] unsure what it is now [02:24] i kinda wish someone would write on the planet what the hell the kernel team is up to [02:24] all i know is this is the only distro besides xandros that will see my lan [02:25] pwnguin: why? [02:25] lurk in #ubuntu-kernel and see what happens. *shrug* [02:25] Hobbsee: because curious minds want to know [02:25] even gutsy wont work [02:25] #ubuntu-kernel is a wasteland of inactivity [02:25] besides, it's not like most people are running hardy, so it's kinda inappropriate for planet [02:25] during this sort of time, yeah [02:26] well, that doesn't stop anyone from writing about their new favorite spec [02:26] sure, but users [02:26] != devs [02:26] Sorry, I don't know anything about devs - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [02:26] that == "most people not running hardy" [02:26] and the people tend to know who the users are :) [02:26] er, teh devs are [02:26] Hobbsee: by chance, do you have a TI sdcard reader? [02:26] Id love to see some kernel team attention go towards https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/31857 [02:27] Launchpad bug 31857 in linux-source-2.6.22 "r818x driver freezes randomly" [Medium,Confirmed] [02:27] pwnguin: a TI sdcard...no, i don't think so [02:27] mine's a ricoh [02:27] ah [02:27] Toma-: seeing as they're not here... [02:27] Toma-: i think partly, there arent many members on the team [02:27] :( [02:27] its been in the last 3 releases [02:28] i have sd card reader in this eee pc and it works just fine [02:28] * pwnguin also thinks writing about the ubuntu kernel to user/developers might attract people towards kernel development [02:28] think of writing like recruitment [02:28] pwnguin: you'd need to recruit users with skill in kernel-areas - and i suspect a generic "come help us" post won't get that. [02:28] erm, devs [02:28] of course not [02:29] its getting worked on upstream [02:29] but if you write about interesting things, at least people will read, and a few people may try to dive in [02:29] just needs newer updates to the main kernel tree i thinks [02:29] * Hobbsee is not on the kernel team [02:29] hope not to many divers [02:30] Hey for hardy is the UI being redeveloped? Are we going to maybe rethink the two-tool bars idea? [02:31] i hope so its a hassel going from one to the other [02:31] the art team is a little stale, imho, so no. [02:31] they seemed pretty active during their meeting [02:31] two tool bars? [02:31] in terms of fresh ideas [02:32] theres alot of talk [02:32] cafuego: 2 panels [02:32] theres going to be just 1 panel in ubuntustudio hardy [02:32] Toma-: It's more of a UI thing than an art thing. My roommate has a book on good UI design and it's gotten me thinking that there are a number of things that I'd like to address, but I can't program my way out of a wet paper bag. [02:32] Heh === bur[n]er_ is now known as burner [02:32] Not on my machine there isn't. [02:33] mrAshley➔ art team handles the UI aswell [02:33] cafuego: naturally it can be edited, which is lovely, but default install should be as user-friendly as possible. [02:33] see [02:34] * Hobbsee likes 2 panels. *shrug* [02:34] the thing with ui's [02:34] Toma-: oic. (how'd you get that swish "->" arrow after my name?) [02:34] mrAshley➔ magic :) [02:34] is its almost completely a "what I like better" [02:34] Toma-: show me show me show me! [02:35] mrAshley: friendly for which user? ;-) [02:36] cafuego: friendly for someone who's never used it before. an example: a door with a panel means push, a door with a sticky outy handle means pull. [02:37] But that's no reason to make the UI be Windows (or MacOS) though? [02:38] 2 panels is slightly original [02:38] make it beos [02:38] mrAshley: Case in point: Sugar (on the olpc) [02:38] there are certain natural expectations that happen before higher-level comprehension. (like a sign which says pull) [02:39] cafuego: it shouldn't be different just to be different. Like imagine a door that opens from the bottom. Sure it's neat, but you have to bend all the way down to pull it up. Why do that just to be different? [02:39] * hydrogen doesn't understand wtf doors have to do with panels [02:39] unless [02:39] of course [02:39] you are suggesting installing automatic panels [02:39] like automatic doors [02:39] KISS [02:39] which I'm sure would be really cool [02:39] and impressive [02:40] and make digg [02:40] * Hobbsee vaguely watches the bikeshedding [02:40] which means they are great [02:40] * mrAshley is trying to compare two items which someone use. [02:40] someone >might< use. [02:40] some butt ugly mockup made digg front page for heron. doesnt mean its going to be used [02:41] Hobbsee: transluctent I think. [02:41] * mrAshley sighs at digg(, despite being a slave to it.) [02:41] hydrogen: *g* [02:41] mrAshley: As I understand it the two panels in Gnome offer additional functionality without filling one panel with icons to the point of uselessness. [02:41] hydrogen: i'd prefer rainbow [02:41] Hobbsee: rainbow is so 90's :/ [02:41] translucency is the new buzz [02:42] mmm...shiny [02:42] mrAshley: If I had to move mine into a single panel it would certainly become an ugly heap of icons [02:42] of course [02:42] speaking of which, there's a nice panel glass thing on the artwork wiki [02:42] you all could solve your panel problems [02:42] only works for bright themes, though [02:42] by switching to the only useful DE [02:42] kde, that is [02:42] * Hobbsee was using kde [02:42] kicker++ [02:42] * Hobbsee switched :P [02:43] * hydrogen is going to stay away from kde4 for a while [02:44] why [02:44] * FunnyLookinHat would love to test KDE4 right now, but no easy way to do it [02:44] cafuego: sure, but consider, for example, that in order for me to close a program I might click the [x] in the top right of a window, and on a maximized window that is right beside the shutdown button. It's easy for someone to accidentally click on the wrong one. [02:44] Unless... is there an easy way to test KDE4 now rather than compiling from source? [02:44] because the desktop is about one hundred steps back [02:45] and yes, there are packages for kubuntu (so for ubuntu as well) gutsy [02:45] FunnyLookinHat: mandriva-cooker has it installed in opt [02:45] mrAshley: So move the window control buttons to the left, like on a Mac :-) [02:45] http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde4-rc1.php [02:45] cps1966, so... I'd have to run mandriva gross. [02:46] in which case they're now near the application/places/system menus. [02:46] there are hardy packages too [02:46] yeah, those packages are more of a sandbox though [02:47] not a usable environment last time I checked [02:47] i have 3.97 here [02:48] I'm no apple-fanboy (quite the opposite) but I don't see why not shamlessly steal a good idea if it comes along!? ;) [02:48] because I've yet to see proof that it is a good idea [02:48] other than "I like it" [02:48] it got bikeshedded about for kde4 as well [02:51] not crazy about kde4 menu layout though [02:51] well I don't know about "proof" other than using design study information, but common sense and a bit of ingenuity could help put commonly used items in better places. === mrAshley is now known as mrAshley_is_eati === mrAshley_is_eati is now known as mrAshley_afk === mrAshley_afk is now known as mrAshley_away [02:54] * cafuego notes that is possibly the philosophy that made microsoft end up with the mess that is the vista start/shutdown item [02:56] if you shut it down you cant catch all the viruses === bmk789 is now known as bmk789_sleep === effie_jayx is now known as effie-jayx [03:41] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReportingPage [03:42] even the page that the KernelTeam started to report to the community was over before it even started === OSUKid7_ is now known as OSUKid7 === mrAshley_away is now known as mrAshley [04:18] Was there an update the removed the games? :p [04:19] yes, and the office. [04:19] *open office [04:19] Not if you were careful :) [04:19] lol [04:19] looks like writer is still installed [04:21] RAOF: does "careful" include putting back Gutsy? ;) [04:23] mrAshley: No, just checking what aptitude wants to remove when you run "sudo aptitude full-upgrade", and hitting "no" until it does'nt want to remove anything you care about :) [04:24] RAOF: I used synaptic.. :P I've never upgraded to a fully alpha release before. :) I just assumed it would be sane-ish.. [04:25] what was the reason the games disappeared? [04:25] lol [04:25] not that I played many of them anyway [04:26] mrAshley: That's an incorrect assumption :) [04:26] It's quite likely that ubuntu-desktop will be uninstallable at least a couple more times before we hit stable. [04:26] RAOF: That's a redundant claim, at this point. ;) But thank you for it regardless. [04:26] Each one of those times synaptic will remove programs if you hit 'upgrade'. [04:27] will it install them back on its own eventually? lol [04:27] underwatercow: Only if you re-install ubuntu-desktop, or the particular program yourself. [04:27] It's not automatic. [04:27] well then why did they remove? [04:27] lol [04:28] was a dependency changed? [04:28] Yup. Or a new package was uploaded that breaks older versions of some other package, or a name change, or... [04:29] lol [04:29] I guess that'll teach me to pay more attention to updates [04:29] Ding! === mrAshley is now known as mrAshley_phone === mrAshley_phone is now known as mrAshley_Bored === mrAshley_Bored is now known as mA === mA is now known as mrA1 === mrA1 is now known as mrAsh === mrAsh is now known as mrAshley === RAOF_ is now known as RAOF === Tomcat_` is now known as Tomcat_ === assasukasse_ is now known as assasukasse [12:37] Hi there! [12:38] The X-breakage, is that still the case? [12:38] guess if we have any questions we can ask you [12:38] what x breakage? [12:38] IdleOne: See the topic :) [12:38] Welcome to #ubuntu+1 "Home of the Hardy Heron" and X breakage [12:39] I can work with bugs, but I prefer to use X :) [12:39] x works fine here [12:40] IdleOne: In that, case... I'll give it a try. :) [12:45] 'Installing the upgrades' [12:45] !fast mirror++ [12:45] Sorry, I don't know anything about fast mirror++ - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [12:49] MOTU Q&A session in 11 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom === Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee [14:39] i can't install mp3 codecs [14:42] in Hardy sharpie? [14:42] yeah, that's why i'm here =o [14:42] ok--just wanted to make sure you weren't in the wrong channel [14:42] np [14:43] is vlc available? haven't checked the repos lately [14:43] I just upgraded [14:44] Some weird error with sudo not being able to resolve my hostname [14:44] i just press the search codecs btn, it shows the small window with the progress bar and then the window disappears and nothing happens [14:44] And some slocate stuff, but other than that it was ok [14:46] is anyone even able to install mp3 codecs? [14:46] sharpie: Which package should that be ? [14:46] i have no idea [14:47] sharpie: I'll boot up my machine and give it a try [14:47] Jeeves_: i just press the search button when the codecs unavailable button appears [14:47] dialog* [14:47] that's how i installed in gutsy [14:48] the fscheck at the 24th boot freezes at about 70-85%, is there a way to interrupt it befor it freeze? :P [14:51] is anyone running as their day to day system? [14:52] i got my mp3 working [14:52] sharpie: How? [14:52] i installed gstreamer-fluendo-mp3 (or something similar) [14:52] gnome? [14:52] manually installed from aptitude [14:52] ok i'm using kde [14:53] bazhang: shouldn't you be in #kubuntu then? :o [14:53] xine iirc in my case [14:53] sharpie: haha well kde users don't have a #kubuntu+1 channel [14:54] bazhang: cause KDE sucks =D [14:54] yes [14:54] thats obviously the reason [14:54] haha opinions differ on that one [14:54] bazhand [14:54] there isn't a ubuntu channel for gutsy + kde on irc because the kde desktop sucks [14:54] I like them all [14:54] who do you think will win in a fight between RMS and linux torvalds? [14:54] that makes perfect sense logically [14:55] why didn't I ever make that connection before [14:55] linus* [14:55] he should change his name haha [14:55] stallman's huge, and he's cool and stuff [14:55] stallman cool? [14:55] and linus is skinny and lame =o [14:55] if you go for the zealotty type [14:55] sure [14:55] FREEDOM OR I'LL CUT MY WRISTS [14:55] hydrogen: he lectured in Yale uni wearing a T-shirt [14:56] while being bearfoot [14:56] if that's not cool i dunno what is [14:56] hmm [14:56] +he was attacked by ninjas there :P [14:56] that doesn't change his zealot status [14:56] which is quite riddiculous [14:57] allz I need to say is that every "new" feature in gnome over the last four or five releases has already been in kde for a while [14:57] yeah but gnome pwns so much that even linus made patches to it :P [14:58] and usually has a lot more features in kde [14:58] but kde is ugly :\ [14:58] this system (hardy) feels noticeably faster on the same hardware than Gutsy [14:58] sharpie: they are the same except for one package [14:58] actually, funny thing is, hardy boots in 20 seconds on VBox [14:59] which is the exact same amount of time gutsy takes to boot [14:59] actually afaik Linus consider gnome as not so good desktop enviroment [14:59] on my install its like 5 seconds or something crazy like that :} [14:59] bazhang: did you like...cancel all the processes and boot to a terminal? [15:00] is Compiz Settings Manager and the cf tray icon broke for the time being? [15:01] sharpie: nope the usual kde login [15:01] this release will rock the linux world--seriously [15:01] bazhang: does kde really boot that much faster than gnome? :S [15:02] sharpie: they both boot faster; I may go for a dual boot of kubuntu and ubuntu to compare though :} [15:02] bazhang: what's ur system specs? [15:03] sharpie: core duo thinkpad intel 945 video gma 2 gb ram [15:03] bazhang: hm [15:03] bazhang: you shouldn't boot THAT much faster than me [15:03] sharpie: kubuntu gutsy was much slower on this machine [15:04] maybe ten seconds plus you are in vm [15:04] bazhang: do u boot off a SSD? [15:04] bazhang: i have an amd athlon X2 4800+, 2gb CL4 ram, geforce 8600GT+ [15:04] not the best on the market but certainly reasonable [15:04] no, just a regular hdd WorkingOnWise [15:04] sharpie: but this in a vm for you right? [15:05] may I ask, what's 'CL4'? [15:05] bazhang: um, it's some kind of latency, the lower the CL the faster [15:05] oops, Lunks [15:05] does medibuntu have hardy repos yet? [15:06] Lunks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency [15:06] I updated hardy and now the GUI deadlocks after about 5 minutes of useage, ctrl+alt+bs doesn't work, numlock doesn't work anymore, but mouse cursor still does mode [15:07] any idea on that? [15:07] um, does anyone know how to move from GNOME to KDE? [15:07] i wanna try KDE on my VM [15:08] install kubuntu-desktop [15:08] bazhang: no, i wanna move on my existing installation [15:08] bazhang: i know it's possible, i just dunno how =o [15:08] sharpie: kde only? [15:09] bazhang: what do u mean kde only :S [15:09] sharpie: download the kubuntu iso or use gnome and kde in the same vm? choose by session that is [15:10] bazhang: no, i mean, use kde instead of gnome [15:10] bazhang: i'll google a bit =o [15:10] sharpie: install kubuntu-desktop, then in the login window under session choose kde [15:10] bazhang: i don't wanna download the entire OS again [15:11] sharpie: kubuntu-desktop is a big amount of packages though :} [15:11] sharpie: no need to install a new system [15:11] bazhang: yeah, well, i might do it later [15:11] bazhang: downloading from BT atm..not much bandwidth to spare [15:11] hehe [15:12] sharpie: afaik, if u install kubuntu desktop, you get all of kubuntu, and ubuntu too. the only diff between them is kubuntu is ubuntu on the kde Destop Enviroment. the kernel and adrivers, all non gui code is the same for both [15:12] WorkingOnWise: yeah i know =o [15:12] so I musta missed something.. [15:13] how about if i install kde? [15:13] like, aptitude install kde [15:14] sharpie: are u asking if that gives u kubuntu? [15:14] sharpie: kubuntu-desktop [15:14] bazhang: but what about kde >_< [15:14] no medibuntu repos right now for hardy :{ [15:15] bazhang: just use gutsy ones, no problem on it [15:15] sharpie: you want to use the kde desktop? [15:15] Lunks: cheers! [15:15] bazhang: yes [15:15] bazhang: damnit i'll install kubuntu-desktop then >.< [15:15] then that's the way sharpie want a link to confirm it? [15:16] bazhang: nah, no need [15:16] sharpie: think Camaro/Firebird [15:16] same chassis, engine, drive train... [15:17] WorkingOnWise: WHAT?! :| [15:17] changer to the body and trim make the m unique [15:17] are you talking about cars? :| [15:17] http://www.watchingthenet.com/switch-between-gnome-and-kde-desktops-in-ubuntu-or-kubuntu.html sharpie [15:17] bazhang: yeah...thats what I said :) [15:18] WorkingOnWise: you are wise indeed :} [15:19] sharpie: and make sure to choose 'make kde default' :} [15:19] bazhang: lol, only going to try it on hardy [15:20] They are unique but not really in any useful way [15:20] true [15:23] irssi is so much better than xchat :D [15:29] sharpie: you know /disco voor disco colours in irssi? [15:31] avatar_: i have no idea what you just said [15:32] /disco gives nice colors in irssi :) [15:32] avatar_: before i try it, how do i cancel it? \: === ktogias_ is now known as ktogias [15:35] lol [15:35] ok, thx [15:35] it disconnects [15:35] checked it on another terminal >_> [15:35] u suck >_> [15:35] i hate ppl who do that crap in irc :/ [15:36] like the ppl who tell you to do /server accept [15:36] the only funny one's "Press ALT+F4 to see my photo" [15:36] never seen that one [15:37] people are much more likely to fall for /server accept than alt+F4 [15:38] so will using the medibuntu repos now in hardy (the ones for gutsy) create problems down the line? I just want the one package--so no real need to even enable the repos I suppose [15:39] libdvdcss2 === dr_evil2 is now known as dr_evil [16:02] hello devels [16:02] how about make ubuntu to include some good jabber client [16:03] erm? [16:03] what's wrong with Kopete? [16:03] instead including sucky clients, how about including one really comfortable [16:03] LimCore: like? [16:03] kopete is bug ridden; [16:04] pidgin would be ok, but obvious thing like gnutifications are 1) not enabled 2) used brain dead skin that do not present the message by default [16:04] just fix the default and it will be close to commerciall solutions in terms of beeing comfortable, imho [16:04] . [16:05] LimCore: anyway, file a bug if there's not one already [16:05] bug/wish [16:05] Tm_T: kopete likes to crashes now and then, try GPG encryption and it shows encrypted text and/or HTML in some parts; administrating groups have issues, simmilar marking chats [16:06] LimCore: I have no issues [16:06] Tm_T: I'm excelent beta tester [16:06] LimCore: then please provide bug reports thanks [16:06] give me any version of any program, I will find bugs in it, unless its hello world [16:07] I know [16:07] the pidgin issues should be filed upstream. since i think ubuntu just uses the default settings. [16:07] Tm_T: where exacly to report them, to have them fixed in next ubuntu? if upstream will be too bussy [16:07] LimCore: upstream and/or bugs.ubuntu.com ? [16:07] jgoss: upstream people are usually too lazy [16:07] LimCore: anyway, finding bugs is only lesser half of beta testing [16:08] they need to be properly reported [16:08] i don't think they are lazy. they just don't place much value on the libnotify/guification part. [16:08] if you want to have something fix you usually have to just do it... I can perhaps be devel of say ubuntu, but not devel in 100 different projectws right? :) and ubuntu pathces can be given to upstream [16:08] jgoss: I was talking in general here; and ignoring user needs is 2nd popular problem [16:09] jgoss: there probably is reason why most programs have bubble popups (from Skype to Kadu/Gadu-Gadu) [16:09] i don't use it often. i'm just saying it would probably have to be dealt upstream. [16:09] * dr_evil is happy with ubunut as long as X doesn't freeze [16:10] and perhaps when keystrokes arent lost ;) [16:10] LimCore: anyway, thanks for your interest :) [16:10] LimCore: usability is one of biggest things in Ubuntu [16:10] jgoss: it is so cool that I have to stop programming, move mouse, and click, to see what someone is writting to me. If only the corporations now, but they keep taking that fun away from users ;) [16:10] i don't argue against that. [16:11] or alt tab away from my pressious code, its just wrong [16:11] i would prefer notifications also. [16:11] ubuntu pollicy is to apply patches (both code and settings) to apps right? [16:11] I've been hanging around on #pidgin and most likely no notifier will ever be on pidgin by default [16:12] jgoss: even more, default skins are useless in gnutifications... they show only "Foo messages you" .. but do not show the most imporatnt part - body of message [16:12] at least that's what devs state [16:12] Lunks: yes, that is why I written that most devels are laz^H too bussy, and not caring so much about users needs [16:12] is ubutnu a distro that can be fixing such things for itself at least? [16:12] i preferred libnotify when i used pidgin. [16:13] even if I disagree, I don't believe this is really about being lazy/not caring about users needs [16:13] jgoss: well, having it working in either tehcnical way would be good [16:13] libnotify is cool. :) [16:13] LimCore why don't ou just install your prefered messenger app? [16:13] dr_evil: I couldn't find any _good_ jabber or multi client [16:14] and it's irritating that commerciall/propertiary apps are ahead, so I would like to change it, since we are so close in some places its matter of few options [16:14] LimCore: I'm perfectly happy with Pidgin/libnotify... I'm even installing it for my Windows friends. :-) [16:15] bad thing about pidgin is its slow developing, not lazyness. I'm not a coder, but I was chatting about it recently. I'm an ex-windows user (like almost everyone else) and used Miranda IM, which is like Pidgin/Trillian. It's open-source also and amazes me on how Pidgin/Miranda relates when comes to new code/new stuff [16:15] LimCore: I guess the problem is rather that people might not agree with your decision. I know a lot of people that like pidgin. [16:15] Tomcat_: it didnt work on debian afair... how to use it? install libnotify plugin, and then what? to have popups, WITH message, when certail (selected) people are writting to me [16:15] No matter what, Pidgin is always behind, in philosophy or code itself [16:15] Tomcat_: again, 99% of users of biggest messangers have this type of notifications active, and I guess most like it [16:15] LimCore I see. I usually use my win2k notebook for ICQ/MSN, and linux just as fileserver and for coding [16:16] LimCore: Install pidgin-libnotify, enable the plugin. No advanced things like "only selected people" though. [16:16] Tomcat_: so I will be annoyed with "foo gone online/offline" for each of my 100 contacts instead of 10 important [16:16] LimCore: Yes, and I agree with you that libnotify should be installed and enabled by default, which is easy. However, I don't agree that the default free software messengers are bad. [16:17] and message from my lover will instantly popup on my desktop? [Popup1: Boss, yes send the data" [Popup2: Mmm I would live to suck you now] CEO: wtf dude are you doing? [16:17] that is brilliant [16:17] LimCore: Kinda, yes. Sorry for that. :-) I got 50 buddies and it works out quite well. [16:18] for me the above solutions suck, what can I do about it? [16:18]