[04:45] <macogw> can any of you tell me where to find documentation on making gtk themes?
[04:50] <troy_s> macogw: There aren't any extremely useful resources in terms of pdf compendiums etc.
[04:50] <troy_s> macogw: The best advice I can give is to learn about the differences between GTK engines
[04:51] <troy_s> macogw: Are you interested in coding them or just want to mock some things together.
[04:51] <troy_s> ?
[04:52] <macogw> coding them
[04:52] <macogw> or if there was a nice clicky way to do it, that
[04:52] <troy_s> macogw: Then your best starting point is the GTK docs
[04:52] <troy_s> macogw: In the end, all of GTK is based on a class based cascading system
[04:53] <macogw> and if there's not a nice clicky way to do it, in thinking about how to code up a nice clicky way to do it
[04:53] <macogw> like css?
[04:53] <troy_s> macogw: Knowing the various classes is important...
[04:53] <troy_s> macogw: No... like object oriented code.
[04:53] <troy_s> macogw: Let me find you the ref.
[04:53] <macogw> ok
[04:53] <macogw> thanks
[04:54] <troy_s> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/2.12/ch01.html
[04:55] <troy_s> macogw: If you want the best advice that I know of, I would suggest start by familiarizing yourself with the default coded engines (Glider, Clearlooks, etc.)
[04:55] <troy_s> macogw: From there, figure out what you want to do via an inkscape mock or something.
[04:55] <troy_s> macogw: Then try to 'implement' it using the 'pixmap' engine which allows you to use pixmaps instead of code (still a PITA but better than code to get things done)
[04:55] <troy_s> macogw: Then perhaps get it into code.
[04:56] <macogw> ok thanks
[04:56] <troy_s> macogw: Was that helpful, or completely misleading and making it cloudy?
[04:56] <macogw> helpful
[04:56] <macogw> i didnt know how it worked at all
[04:57] <troy_s> macogw: It is tedious.
[04:57] <troy_s> macogw: Basically, you have a gabillion 'widget' classes (as per that link)
[04:57] <troy_s> macogw: If you define a look for a higher level class, it will cascade down (helpful in pixmap)
[04:58] <troy_s> macogw: The best and quickest path to a mock is download neutronium or another pixmap theme from gnome look and analyze it.
[04:58] <macogw> ok
[04:59] <macogw> do pixmap ones still use a theme engine?
[04:59] <troy_s> macogw: Yes.  The pixmap themes use the 'pixbuf/pixmap' theme engine.
[05:00] <troy_s> macogw: gtk-engines-pixmap - Pixmap-based theme for GTK+ 1.2
[05:00] <troy_s> macogw: Another little known engine that might be extremely useful is dborg's LUA engine.
[05:01] <troy_s> macogw: It uses LUA scripting to deal with drawing...
[05:01] <macogw> ok
[05:01] <troy_s> http://dborg.wordpress.com/2006/12/12/updates/
[05:08] <macogw> troy_s: oh, do you know where (other than searching gnome-look.org) to find out how different theme engines look or something to compare how they render different things?
[05:09] <troy_s> macogw: That one is easy
[05:09] <troy_s> macogw: 1) Install your engines and some sample themes that use them
[05:09] <macogw> and then play with the widget factory
[05:09] <troy_s> macogw: 2) Use your 'appearance' applet to change the appearance of your test environment,
[05:10] <troy_s> macogw: 2.1) select 'customize' and change the controls
[05:10] <troy_s> macogw: That is probably the easiest.
[05:11] <macogw> xchat-gnome crashed when i did that
[05:12] <macogw> firefox, surprisingly, didn't
[05:12] <troy_s> macogw: Weird, it shouldn't.
[05:12] <troy_s> macogw: Reg that bug!
[05:12] <macogw> it could be a bug in the theme
[05:13] <macogw> i know OOo's issues were with broken themes, though they did find a way to make OOo not freak out at broken ones
[05:13] <macogw> usually firefox freaks out when you switch themes
[05:14] <troy_s> macogw: It should be fine, but slow
[05:14] <troy_s> macogw: Firefox just gags a while.
[05:14] <macogw> firefox 3 used to crash when i switched themes
[05:14] <macogw> apparently the most recent update fixed that
[05:14] <macogw> it's probably due to their experimental support for gtk
[06:03] <darkmatter> troy_s: pixmap is STILL E-V-I-L. point in question, sorted the look 'n' feel I was after using pixmap, now moved on to engine code
[08:23] <BHSPitLappy> WHY ARE GUTSY ICONS BLURRY
[08:23] <BHSPitLappy> it seriously maddens me
[15:56] <cursor> Hey
[15:56] <cursor> _MMA_ how are you doing?
[16:02] <_MMA_> Fine.
[21:28] <DanaG> Hmm, right now I'm using a theme with the Aurora engine, and while it looks nice in blue, I feel it's missing the orange that makes it distinctly Ubuntu.
[21:58] <DanaG> Hmm, I suppose many people are probably away or idle, doing other things, due to it being a weekend.
[22:26] <troy_s> DanaG: You mean brown.
[22:26] <DanaG> Both, actually.
[22:26] <DanaG> Orange and brown can look good together if done right.
[22:27] <DanaG> Right now I'm using a theme called "Jellyfish-Aurora", which is partly based on Fedora's "Nodoka" theme, but not as "OMG-I-Need-Sunglasses!" bright blue.
[22:27] <DanaG> Oh yeah, one cool feature from Fedora 8 that I'd love to see in Hardy: the slideshow-wallpaper feature.
[22:28] <DanaG> The wallpaper changes over the day, so it's dark at night and bright in midday.
[22:48] <darkmatter> meh... I hate cairo. nah. take that back. I hate bloated engine code more  :-|
[22:48] <DanaG> Heh, I see the name Nodoka, I think of the character from Negima.
[22:52] <darkmatter> DanaG: probably where fedora stole the name from ;P
[22:52] <DanaG> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/MartinSourada