[00:09] <oliver_g_> ok, I found a similar manual (different revision it seems) on the net, and it crashes evince as well; added to LP
[00:09] <oliver_g_> thanks for your help!
[02:38] <JanC> can somebody explain what's the use case for adding an entry for 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts ?
[02:39] <LaserJock> some apps use it?
[02:39] <JanC> its only purpose I could find seems to be to slow everything down considerably? ;)
[02:39] <JanC> what apps use it?
[02:39] <LaserJock> I'm not sure, but I've run across a couple
[02:40] <JanC> booting goes about 2x faster when I comment it out, and some apps start up 10x faster without it...
[02:40] <davef> its a loopback address that points to your own local computer. as mentioned, some apps rely on it. i would not recommend commenting it out
[02:41] <JanC> eh, I think that 127.0.0.1 is perfectly fine for that?
[02:41] <LaserJock> some apps use 127.0.1.1 for loopback
[02:42] <LaserJock> I don't know if those apps could be told to use 127.0.0.1 or if there's a reason to separate them
[02:43] <JanC> 127.0.1.1 has "hostname.local" after it, which causes delays because of DNS-SD timouts or something
[02:43] <Nafallo> localhost.localdomain
[02:43] <Nafallo> shouldn't conflict with hostname.local
[02:43] <JanC> no, it has hostname.local after it...
[02:44] <Nafallo> mine hasn't
[02:44] <JanC> so, that would be an installer bug?
[02:45] <Nafallo> 127.0.0.1	localhost.localdomain	localhost
[02:45] <JanC> I'm talking about 127.0.1.1
[02:45] <JanC> which is added to /etc/hosts by the installer
[02:45] <Nafallo> ah.
[02:46] <Nafallo> must have changed that on mine :-P
[02:46] <JanC> I could understand if there was a good reason for that, but i couldn't find one
[02:46] <LaserJock> mine just has the name of my computer
[02:46] <Nafallo> I have no domains ;-)
[02:46] <JanC> Nafallo: I commented it out too  ;)
[02:47] <Nafallo> I don't think I've touched it.
[02:49] <JanC> hm, could this be Avahi- or DHCP-related?
[02:49] <minghua> In Debian, new installs now have two 127.x.x.x IPs in /etc/hosts.
[02:49] <JanC> minghua: yes, that's what I see too
[02:50] <minghua> one is 127.0.0.1, mapping to your hostname (and FQDN if you have one).
[02:50] <minghua> one is 127.0.1.1, mapping to localhost.
[02:50] <Nafallo> ehrm
[02:50] <Nafallo> we have the reverse
[02:50] <JanC> 127.0.0.1 localhost hostname
[02:50] <minghua> It may be the same in Ubuntu.
[02:50] <JanC> #127.0.1.1 hostname.local
[02:50] <Nafallo> AFAIK
[02:50] <JanC> taht's what I have now
[02:50] <JanC> the "#" was added by me  ;)
[02:51] <LaserJock> I have:
[02:51] <LaserJock> 127.0.0.1 localhost
[02:51] <LaserJock> 127.0.1.1 photon
[02:51] <minghua> Nafallo: Maybe it's the reverse, I am not sure on that.
[02:51] <Nafallo> minghua: I can't figure a reason we would change it, and for Debian for doing wrong :-)
[02:52] <minghua> JanC: Your slow boot/start time problem is apparently your own.  I don't think .local is a valid domain name.
[02:52] <davef> if you read the info in 'man hosts', it sounds like /etc/hosts is not widely relied on anymore. but is still needed in certain cases
[02:53] <JanC> minghua: I didn't put it there  ;)
[02:53] <minghua> Nafallo: I don't think we changed it either, but I only know the Debian part of the story, and this is an Ubuntu channel, so better be safe. :-)
[02:53] <minghua> JanC: Your answer in the installation process put it there, I suppose.
[02:53] <Nafallo> minghua: 127.0.0.1 is localhost, has always been etc.. :-)
[02:53] <JanC> minghua: Ubutnu doesn't ask such things  ;)
[02:53] <minghua> I'm not familiar with the ubiquity installer to be sure, though.
[02:54] <JanC> and .local is the default extension for DNS-SD (aka Avahi / bonjour /etc.)
[02:54] <Nafallo> minghua: in 50 to 70 years we might have only ::1 though ;-)
[02:54] <minghua> Nafallo: I'll be dead by then, so I don't care. :-)
[02:54] <Nafallo> I won't :-)
[02:56] <JanC> Nafallo: only 1 (consumer) ISP in Belgium offers IPv6 tunnels (and they are mostly business oriented anyway), all others think IPv6 is something for the next century or something  :-/
[02:57] <Nafallo> JanC: tunnels? what about proper IPv6 then?
[02:57] <JanC> one problem is that a lot of ISP-size router equipment doesn't support IPv6 correctly, if I understand correctly
[02:58] <Nafallo> also, isn't the educational sector running on IPv6 already?
[02:58] <JanC> e.g. Motorola (headend) & Cisco stuff
[02:58] <JanC> yeah, Belnet has IPv6
[02:58] <JanC> but consumers can't use that  :P
[02:58] <Nafallo> that depends on who they know ;-)
[02:59] <JanC> Belnet has an IPv6 tunnel "entrance"
[02:59] <JanC> that you can use for free AFAIK
[02:59] <Nafallo> SixXS?
[03:00] <JanC> yeah, I think they work with SixXS
[03:01] <Nafallo> my main transit provider is also a SixXS PoP ;-)
[03:01] <JanC> http://www.sixxs.net/pops/belnet/
[03:01] <Nafallo> goscomb :-)
[03:02] <ion_> I currently use SixXS, but my ISP is going to offer free native IPv6 soon. \o/
[03:02] <Nafallo> ion_: hehe. I will take a BGP-session with v6 ;-)
[03:03] <JanC> I should try to set up an IPv6 tunnel one day, but I think it's quite a lot of work for something that should just work  ;)
[03:04] <JanC> and I would have to buy a new router too
[03:04] <Nafallo> it's not a lot of work.
[03:04] <Nafallo> it's dead easy.
[03:04] <JanC> last time I checked (some years ago) you had to go through RIPE etc.?
[03:05] <Nafallo> the registration process has nothing to do with setting it up, and RIPE isn't the case anymore anyway.
[03:05] <JanC> ah?
[03:05] <bigon> JanC: I use easynet pop for years and it works great :)
[03:05] <JanC> well, registration *has* to do with IMO  :P
[03:06] <Nafallo> JanC: SixXS has there own registry.
[03:06] <JanC> hm, I'll look again then  ツ
[03:06] <Nafallo> I rather peer and have my own /48 to announce anyway :-)
[03:06] <ion_> tsu
[03:07] <JanC> hm, their FAQ still mentions RIPE etc. ?
[03:07] <Nafallo> what does it say about it?
[03:08] <bigon> JanC: you can use a ripe account
[03:08] <bigon> too
[03:08] <bigon> but as said they have their own registry
[03:08] <JanC> bigon: right, but I don't have one  ;)
[03:08] <Nafallo> and they sync the ripe into that one ;-)
[03:08] <bigon> https://noc.sixxs.net/faq/account/?faq=10steps
[03:08] <JanC> the FAQ points to a form on ripe.net
[03:09] <bigon> https://noc.sixxs.net/signup/create/
[03:09] <JanC> so it's probably outdated  :P
[03:09] <bigon> JanC: enter real informations because they verify them
[03:09] <JanC> bigon: that's no issue for me
[03:10] <JanC> I have real data on my domains to
[03:10] <JanC> (DNS.be also checks it now)
[04:29] <Hobbsee> geser: sylpheed given back
[05:04] <crimsun> Hobbsee: do you have any insight into the i386 build of Hardy's pulseaudio 0.9.8-1ubuntu2?
[05:24] <Hobbsee> crimsun: what about it?
[05:25] <Hobbsee> crimsun: i think parts of launchpad are lying to you, it appears to be pending build
[05:25] <crimsun> Hobbsee: I can't seem to figure out anything about the i386 build.  All the other arches have built and are available in pool.
[05:26] <Hobbsee> wait
[05:26] <Hobbsee> launchpad is screwing up somewhere
[05:27] <Hobbsee> crimsun: "launchpad is on crack'
[05:27] <Hobbsee> crimsun: wait till monday, i guess
[05:27] <crimsun> Hobbsee: ok, thanks.
[05:28] <Hobbsee> crimsun: i can't cancel the build, etc
[05:28] <Hobbsee> maybe i can force it though
[05:28] <StevenK> "... bang!" Ooops
[05:29] <Hobbsee> nah, i can't even force it
[05:29] <Hobbsee> LP is reporting conflicting things
[05:30] <StevenK> So will require a wizard to make sense of it?
[05:30] <Hobbsee> it'll require a cprov to fix it, yes
[05:30] <Hobbsee> i'd guessed queue-builder or something has fallen over, partway thru.  *shrug*
[06:34] <choudesh> Anyone having issues with sun-java6-plugin in hardy? (icedtea-java7-plugin doesn't work either)
[08:02] <MuNzE_> where can I find xorg.conf ...in hardy?
[08:02] <MuNzE_> lol
[08:02] <persia> MuNzE_: It's gone.
[08:03] <MuNzE_> i try to find but nothing
[08:03] <MuNzE_> /etc/X11 ...??
[08:06] <bryce> MuNzE_: if you miss it, you can just run sudo dexconf to generate it
[08:06] <bryce> MuNzE_: ideally you should no longer need it though
[08:06] <MuNzE_> bryce, i need for compiz
[08:15] <pwnguin> when did xorg.conf die? i missed this
[08:16] <MuNzE_> lol
[08:17] <persia> pwnguin: New in hardy.
[08:17] <pwnguin> as of?
[08:18] <slangasek> as of the first X upload to hardy
[08:19] <persia> pwnguin: 1:7.3+4ubuntu1
[08:19] <ion_> I only have an InputDevice section for my keyboard (so that i can set Xkb* options) and a Device section for my GPU (so that i can use the proprietary :-( nvidia driver). Everything else is handled automatically by xorg.
[08:22] <pwnguin> well
[08:22] <pwnguin> im sure my tablet still needs a section
[10:28]  * Hobbsee waves
[10:39] <mdke> hi Hobbsee
[10:39] <Hobbsee> heya mdke!  how's it going?
[10:39] <mdke> Hobbsee: ok thanks. Busy. What's all this about you using Ubuntu?
[10:39] <mdke> the rumours are everywhere
[10:40] <Hobbsee> mdke: i'm afraid that the rumours are true.
[10:40] <Hobbsee> although compiz and my video card are not in love, for hardy.
[10:40] <mdke> extraordinary
[10:40] <mdke> permanent move?
[10:40] <Hobbsee> so far
[10:40] <Hobbsee> mdke: i didn't know it was that slow a news day :P
[10:40] <StevenK> Just wait, she'll start bad-mouthing KDE, and then we'll know we have her...
[10:41] <mdke> heh
[10:41] <mdke> welcome to the light
[10:41] <Hobbsee> StevenK: like i'd be stupid enough to comment on things that i don't like about KDE, or kubuntu for that matter, in a public, logged channel :)
[10:41] <StevenK> Heh
[10:42]  * Hobbsee just wishes hardy would stop freezing, and behave.
[10:43] <mdke> at least you can run a free operating system. I've been stuck on windows for several weeks now
[10:43] <Hobbsee> ew
[10:43] <mdke> makes it very hard to get anything done
[10:43] <Hobbsee> i'll bet.
[11:08] <mdke> Hobbsee, slangasek - could you have a look at bug 174886, it's not something ubuntu-doc can take care of, I think
[11:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 174886 in ubuntu-docs "Hardy Alpha Release Notes have no links to daily builds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174886
[11:09] <Hobbsee> mdke: looks like that should be assigned to ubuntu-release
[11:09] <Hobbsee> mdke: and slangasek remember to do that each release
[11:09] <mdke> ok. is there a project for that?
[11:09] <Hobbsee> no
[11:09] <Hobbsee> u-r is a team
[11:09] <mdke> fine
[11:10] <Hobbsee> well, at least, i don't know of one :)
[11:10] <mdke> assigned :)
[11:11] <Hobbsee> :)
[13:03] <geser> Hobbsee: Hi, can you use build.py right now?
[13:05] <Hobbsee> geser: yes
[13:06] <geser> Hobbsee: please give-back: libmrss libp11 libpreludedb. Thanks.
[13:08] <StevenK> geser: It's buildd.py
[13:13] <Hobbsee> geser: all given back
[13:48] <LongPointyStick> er, how do i debug why my keyboard and mouse have lockedup?
[13:49] <LongPointyStick> as in, i can move the mouse, but it won't click, etc, and nothing on my keyboard appears to work
[13:49] <StevenK> If you force a VT switch does the keyboard work?
[13:49] <LongPointyStick> hwo do i force a VT switch?
[13:49] <StevenK> Run 'sudo chvt 1' in an ssh session
[13:49] <LongPointyStick> ahhh
[13:50] <LongPointyStick> StevenK: it goes black, and then gets sent back to the X session
[13:51] <LongPointyStick> you know, i wonder if this is related to the consolekit bug thing
[13:51] <LongPointyStick> sorry, policykit
[13:51] <StevenK> I wasn't expecting chvt 1 to send you right back to X
[13:53] <LongPointyStick> neither
[13:53] <LongPointyStick> but there is a bug about when you're logging in, where it won't let you get to a VT - it goes black, then sends you back to gdm.
[13:53] <StevenK> Sounds sinister
[13:54] <LongPointyStick> ah, bingo
[13:54] <LongPointyStick> after killing consolekit, chvt 1 works fine, and i have keyboard.
[13:54] <LongPointyStick> which then locks up again when i go back to X
[13:55] <StevenK> So X has gotten into some bad state
[13:56] <LongPointyStick> hrm, X will continually lock, even with consolekit killed.
[13:56] <LongPointyStick> Amaranth: fix it!  :)
[13:57] <StevenK> I daresay your video card does hardware pointer which is why the mouse moves -- the graphics hardware is updating the mouse pointer and keeping track of it, but X isn't listening since the keyboard and mouse clicks aren't working
[13:57] <Amaranth> Does killing compiz help?
[13:57] <Amaranth> Either X has gotten stuck or compiz has
[13:57] <StevenK> Right
[13:58] <Amaranth> compiz usually gets stuck when a driver does something weird
[13:58] <StevenK> Amaranth: Hopefully my stuff about the hardware pointer isn't complete bollocks
[13:58] <LongPointyStick> oh yes, i was going to try that
[13:58] <Amaranth> StevenK: Sounds right
[13:58] <Amaranth> Although when compiz is the problem it's not actually the case, everything is still getting events and such you just can't see it
[13:58] <LongPointyStick> Amaranth: then it manages to quit gdm, and drop me back at a console.
[13:59] <LongPointyStick> Amaranth: what's weird is that with EXA, my screen is still refreshing.
[13:59] <Amaranth> gah i can't wait for gallium
[14:01] <LongPointyStick> Amaranth: er, now killing compiz gets me back to a usable X window, yes.
[14:01] <StevenK> So compiz is busticated.
[14:01] <StevenK> What else is new?
[14:01]  * StevenK ducks
[14:01] <Amaranth> I suck with gdb but isn't it possible to attach to compiz and see what it is doing?
[14:01] <LongPointyStick> StevenK: heh
[14:01] <Amaranth> It's obviously not crashed so that would mean it's in an infinite loop somewhere
[14:01] <Amaranth> or stalled waiting for something
[14:01] <LongPointyStick> Amaranth: this reproducable by hitting meta+e, then alt+space
[14:02] <Amaranth> oh that one
[14:02] <StevenK> Hah
[14:02] <Amaranth> I hate X11
[14:02] <LongPointyStick> yeah, that seems to be oen of the easiest ways to do it
[14:02] <Amaranth> the problem is the menu gets a screengrab
[14:02] <StevenK> meta+e and then alt-space opens two window menus for me
[14:02] <Amaranth> and keyboard grab
[14:03] <LongPointyStick> StevenK: yes, then click somewhere, and try to go back itno one of the desktops.
[14:03] <Amaranth> it's possible to escape from but not easy
[14:03] <StevenK> LongPointyStick: Works for me
[14:03] <LongPointyStick> StevenK: lucky you.
[14:03] <Amaranth> I manage to get it stuck about every other time I try
[14:03] <StevenK> I don't think I'll do that again
[14:03] <Amaranth> hehe
[14:04] <LongPointyStick> haha
[14:05] <LongPointyStick> Amaranth: how do i start compiz, etc, on a separate display?
[14:05] <Amaranth> eh?
[14:05] <LongPointyStick> displays are always strange creatures to me :)
[14:05] <Amaranth> DISPLAY=:0 compiz &
[14:05] <LongPointyStick> surely if i'm running compiz thru gdb, i need to start it from the ssh'd machine?
[14:05] <LongPointyStick> ahhhh
[14:05] <Amaranth> i'm not saying to start compiz in gdb
[14:05] <Amaranth> i'm saying to attach to it when it gets stuck
[14:07] <StevenK> LongPointyStick: To do what Amaranth is asking, start compiz, get it stuck, find compiz's process id, run gdb and then run attach <pid>
[14:07] <Amaranth> or gdb -p <pid>
[14:07] <Amaranth> iirc
[14:07] <StevenK> That will stop compiz, so you need to run continue, but then how to see what it's doing, I'm stuck
[14:09] <LongPointyStick> hum.  attaching to it before it gets stuck just makes it freeze.
[14:09] <StevenK> Of course, you need to run continue at the gdb prompt
[14:09] <StevenK> gdb sends it a SIGSTOP, from memory
[14:10] <Amaranth> it's best to attach it when it sticks
[14:11] <LongPointyStick> so i continue, and it says Continuing, and it does nothing.
[14:11] <Amaranth> right, don't do that
[14:11] <Amaranth> attach to it after it gets stuck
[14:11] <Amaranth> then don't run continue
[14:11] <LongPointyStick> that was just after it got stuck
[14:11] <LongPointyStick> oh.
[14:11] <Amaranth> you should be able to run bt to see what it's just been doing
[14:13] <StevenK> Maybe the last function on the call stack is annoy_hobbsee_lots_and_lots()
[14:13] <LongPointyStick> haha
[14:13] <LongPointyStick> Amaranth: no debugging symbols.
[14:14] <Amaranth> does the automatic repo thingy have them yet?
[14:14] <Amaranth> this would be easier on gutsy :P
[14:14] <LongPointyStick> i have no idea
[14:15] <LongPointyStick> there appears to be no compiz debug package in the reops
[14:15] <Amaranth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[14:15] <Amaranth> it's a separate repo
[14:15] <Amaranth> debug packages are created automatically
[14:15] <persia> Hmm..  ddebs.ubuntu.com doesn't seem to have updated in the past 10 days
[14:15] <LongPointyStick> yeah, i thought so
[14:16] <Amaranth> ok then...
[14:16] <Amaranth> easier on gutsy :P
[14:16] <Amaranth> unless you feel like installing basically every X, GNOME, and KDE dev package and building compiz :)
[14:17] <LongPointyStick> well, i'll see if it crashes on gutsy then
[14:17] <Amaranth> it does
[14:17] <Amaranth> this particular bug has been around as long as compiz has
[14:17] <Amaranth> well, sort of
[14:18] <Amaranth> expo just made it easier to hit :)
[14:18] <LongPointyStick> what, the freezes?
[14:19] <StevenK> Haha
[14:20] <LongPointyStick> crashes on gutsy too.
[14:27] <Amaranth> LongPointyStick: good, you can get debug symbols there :)
[14:28] <LongPointyStick> heh
[14:43] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: it appears that they're broken anyway, due to the backports
[14:44] <Amaranth> Hobbsee: oh joy
[14:44] <Hobbsee> yes...
[16:19] <android> hi
[16:20] <android> do you know why zsnes is in multiverse in ubuntu but in main in debian?
[16:20] <android> I think this is an error
[16:20] <android> cause zsnes is a free software
[16:24] <Adri2000> android: I see it in universe
[16:24] <Adri2000> zsnes |  1.510-1.1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hardy/universe Sources
[16:26] <pochu> android: In feisty and Edgy was in multiverse, but Gutsy and Hardy have it in universe.
[16:27] <android> ok thank you the problem was solved
[21:15] <yuhong> May I suggest adding a generic-pae kernel to the next version of Ubuntu?
[21:15] <yuhong> Currently it requires a recompile.
[21:16] <yuhong> How about making it the default if NX support or RAM mapped over 4G boundary is detected.
[21:18] <yuhong> Also how about a non-PAE server kernel?
[21:18] <yuhong> Make that the default if the processor does not support PAE.
[21:19] <yuhong> And if installing a server version of Ubuntu.
[21:19] <crimsun> yuhong: please ask on the kernel-team@  list (it's moderated, so please consider subscribing).