=== Mez|OnAir is now known as Mez
persiaRAOF: Maybe, but sort the remainder normally, but always before the precedent (but not before anything that would otherwise sort before the precedent) isn't as obvious to some people as it perhaps is to you.00:01
RAOFOr maybe I use an imprecise but useful rule of thumb of "anything after & including the ~ is less than any other string, including nothing".00:04
persiaRAOF: That could be it, but I'm still not sure "less than nothing" is obvious to non-mathematicians (where "mathematicians" includes lightly dabbling amateurs)00:05
* Fujitsu goes by '~' < '', which is I believe the proper rule.00:05
persiaFujitsu: Yes, it is.00:06
norsetto yes, I think its bed time00:21
norsettog'night all00:21
pwnguinStevenK: your blog is fired.00:39
pgquileshow do I invoke a shell and run a command before "make build" in a CDBS+autotools.mk package? (this is the debian/rules: http://pastebin.ca/811562). I've tried "makebuilddir/packagename::" but it does not work :-/01:10
StevenKpwnguin: I don't have a blog.01:14
LaserJockbut you should01:14
LaserJockso you can get ponies01:15
slangasekfired ponies?01:17
zulblogs are overrated01:17
LaserJockzul: really? they are email 2.001:18
zulsince when? ;)01:18
bddebianpgquiles: First, stop using CDBS ;-P01:19
LaserJockzul: since like Y2k or something01:20
pgquilesbddebian: annoying, I know. I didn't package it in the first place and I'd like to build a CVS version of the software but CVS version require to run command in a shell before ./configure is invoked :-/01:21
azeempgquiles: you could just run that command manually and add the outcome in the .diff.g01:21
pgquilesazeem: no, because there are symlinks01:22
persiapgquiles: put it in a makebuilddir/foo:: rule.  This runs between unpack and configure:01:23
pgquilespersia: it's not executed, I don't know why01:24
bddebianpersia: He said he tried that and it didn't work01:24
pgquilesazeem: like  install-sh -> /usr/share/automake-1.9/install-sh01:24
azeempgquiles: are you running autoreconf?01:24
bddebianBah, that's dumb01:24
azeemor autogen.sh or something01:24
pgquilesazeem: autogen.sh, yes01:24
azeemthere's an option to force a copy instead of a symlink01:24
azeempgquiles: you might have to change the auto* invocations inside autogen.sh then01:25
azeemif it's not just running autoreconf anyway01:25
pgquilesazeem: I've tried AUTO_UPDATE_ACLOCAL, etc but it fails because of not included .m4 but I don't know how to pass parameters to ACLOCAL with AUTO_UPDATE01:25
azeemisn't AUTO_UPDATE_ACLOCAL deprecated01:25
pgquilesazeem: what do you mean with "you might have to change the auto* invocations inside autogen.sh then"?01:26
azeempgquiles: what *is* inside autogen.sh?01:26
azeemI can't look into it for you01:27
pgquilesazeem: autopoint --force; shell libtoolize --copy --force; aclocal -I m4 -I gnulib/m4; shell autoheader; automake --add-missing;  autoconf01:27
azeemhuh, autopoint?01:27
pgquilesfrom gettext01:27
cdm10I need some help using dch01:27
azeemwell, there's a bunch of programs being run starting with "auto", aren't there?01:28
cdm10dch -U isn't adding a new release, just a new bulletpoint under my existing one01:28
pgquilesI've tried with the makebuilddir/foo:: and $(shell thecommands) but it didn't work01:28
azeempgquiles: apparently your trouble is with automake, so see how to invoke automake to copy the missing files rather than generating symlinks01:28
pgquilesazeem: probably, but every single one I found already has ./configure in01:28
azeempgquiles: ...being run *by autogen.sh*01:29
RAOF_pgquiles: Ah, you're trying to generate the (autotools) buildsystem in debian/rules?01:29
cdm10oh, never mind, got it :)01:29
pgquilesRAOF_: yes, that's it01:29
RAOF_pgquiles: That's generally not a fun thing to do.01:29
azeemif you use CDBS01:29
pgquilesthat's the problem, CDBS01:30
pgquilesmy debian/rules usually are only bash scripts which allow me to do everything I want01:30
* persia is certain makebuilddir:: is the solution, and would like to see a build log01:30
azeempgquiles: in any case "didn't work" isn't enough information01:30
azeempgquiles: bash scripts?01:30
persiapgquiles: debian/rules isn't a bash script!  1) it's not bash, 2) it's not shell01:30
cdm10Ugh, I'm having another problem: (WARNING: Failed to sign .dsc and .changes file)01:31
pgquilesazeem: "didn't work" meaning it's not run. I guess the makebuilddir/foo:: rule I'm adding is queued after the existing rule with the same name.01:31
persiacdm10: You need the identity on your GPG key to exactly match the identify in the last debian changelog entry.01:31
cdm10It works fine when I build it the first time, but when I increment the version with dch and dpkg-buildpackage it again, it doesn't sign.01:31
cdm10persia: oh, lemme doublecheck that...01:31
azeempgquiles: where did you add it in debian/rules?01:31
persiapgquiles: Just to make sure, you7re replacing "foo" with the name of your package, right?01:32
pgquilesazeem: I've tried at the beginning and at the end, but both fail01:32
pgquilespersia: yes :-)01:32
cdm10persia: ha, it put in caleb@caleb-comp rather than my email address.01:32
joejaxxcdm10: :)01:32
persiaazeem: Location in debian/rules doesn't matter.  make isn't sequential01:32
RAOF__Hm.  Dear internet: stop sucking.01:33
RAOF__pgquiles: So, you presumably need to do the autogen stuff because you're packaging a development snapshot, right?01:33
LaserJockcdm10: putting DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL in ~/.bashrc helps with that01:34
pgquilesRAOF__: exactly01:34
cdm10LaserJock: thanks01:34
pgquilesI needed to add a debian/stamp-autotools-maintregen-arch:: cd $(DEB_BUILDDIR); sh ./autogen.sh to get makebuilddir/foo:: to work, holy shit01:59
persiaVery odd.  For most packages, it seems to work without that (although perhaps it's related to autotools magic)02:01
pgquilesand configure and build are run twice :-?02:01
pgquilesautohell might be more accurate :-)02:01
RAOFHm.  Now that telstra's finished poking around at the exchange, maybe the internet will stay up for a few minutes at a time...02:11
RAOFpgquiles: Did you get your autotools working?02:11
pgquilesRAOF: yes, but I needed to add a weird rule02:12
RAOFpgquiles: A better plan may have been to not do the autotools on build.  Rather, autotoolise the original tarball.02:12
pwnguinStevenK: ah. ive mistaken you for steven kemp02:25
pwnguinwho is on planet debian02:25
pwnguin12 times02:25
azeemit's Steve Kemp IIRC02:30
=== tonyy is now known as tonyyarusso
=== tonyy is now known as tonyyarusso
joejaxxLaserJock: are you around? :D03:51
LaserJocksure am03:52
joejaxxhave time for a pm ? :)03:52
=== asac_ is now known as asac
LaserJockit's amazing how much compiling depends on hard drive speed04:59
StevenKNo it isn't, of course parts of it will be I/O bound.05:00
LaserJockhmm, I don't get why my laptop would be so slow then05:01
LaserJockmy AMD 1800+ compiles I think around twice as fast as my Celeron 2.6GHz laptop05:02
StevenKThe Celeron has much less on-die cache05:02
persiaLaserJock: RAM size?  Cache?05:02
RAOFThat's not one of those old celerons with *no* L2 cache?05:02
StevenKIt's late P4 if it's 2.6GHz05:03
LaserJockit's 2.8Ghz actually05:03
LaserJockAMD Athlon(tm) XP 1800+  cache size      : 256 KB05:03
LaserJockIntel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.80GHz   cache size      : 128 KB05:04
LaserJockthe AMD has 1GB of RAM and the Intel 512MB of RAM05:05
persiaThose two factors explain most of it.  With more RAM you get pagecache advantages, and with more local cache, you've a higher chance of keeping the processor fed.05:06
RAOFAnd what sort of code?  If you go crazy with the templates it shouldn't be too hard to get g++ to thrash in 512mb.05:06
LaserJockthat seems crazy to me05:06
persiaEspecially if you've already loaded 200-300MB with a healthy bit of OS stuff.05:07
LaserJockit doesn't seem to be using up all the RAM most of the time05:07
persiaLaserJock: If you're not using all your RAM, your pagecache settings aren't agressive enough.05:08
LaserJockI seem to generally have 150-200MB of RAM free still05:09
* RAOF 's laptop with 2GB of ram rarely uses < 95% of the ram05:11
StevenKMy amd64 desktop is the same05:12
LaserJock- buffers/cache?05:12
* persia takes ~2 hours to reach 2GB in pagecache05:12
RAOFSo unless that free ram count doesn't include the various caches, I'm not sure how you get 200MB unused ram.05:12
LaserJockoh, I thought you were talking about -buffers/cache05:12
* TheMuso only has 1GB of ram in his P4, but only ever starts using swap if he is 1) using GNOME+Speech, and 2) is doing a lot of package building, particularly with big packages.05:13
RAOFOh, no.05:13
LaserJockI have 50-100MB free if I include cache05:13
persiaLaserJock: It's the buffers & cache that make it faster.  Without loading the pagecache, you need to read the pages from disk again.  For common operations, it's better to have the binaries, libraries, etc. already in RAM.05:13
* persia notes that for package building, it's ideal to have enough ram for base system + base cache + simulated build environment + build space05:14
TheMusopersia: Yeah very true.05:14
LaserJockI"m not using pbuilder05:15
LaserJockjust compiling some stuff from svn05:15
persiaLaserJock: In that case, you can probably get by with 2-3GB before you start dropping pages, either to swap or clean pages from the disk.05:15
LaserJockI just can't believe my laptop is so slow05:15
persiaLaserJock: It's your choice of benchmark.  Compare the two systems when encoding video or something.05:17
LaserJockheh, like I ever do that05:18
LaserJockI need to find a test for that, it might be interesting05:18
=== imbrando1 is now known as imbrandon
imbrandonthat sucked05:32
imbrandonice storm + internet + power brownouts == no love for imbrandon05:32
imbrandonyea ...05:32
imbrandoninternet all day has sucked and it dont look like its getting better05:33
LaserJockok, I just did a benchmark with the *small* app I'm building from source:05:33
imbrandonin the next 48 hours05:33
LaserJockAMD 1800+05:33
LaserJockreal    6m7.545s05:33
LaserJockuser    5m13.436s05:33
LaserJocksys     0m36.406s05:33
LaserJockCeleron 2.8GHz05:33
LaserJockreal    16m12.889s05:34
LaserJockuser    12m19.662s05:34
LaserJocksys     0m57.780s05:34
LaserJockso even more than twice as slow :(05:34
FujitsuThis is why we don't eat celery.05:34
lifelesscelerons are P4 though; they are borked by design :)05:34
RAOFNice branchy compile code for the huge pipeline!05:34
imbrandonok i have a small OT question to ask yall, since i love you all so much, i'm setting up a blog ( self hosted wordpress ) for my wife to get her away from myspace hehe, anyhow i dont have the $$ for a domain name so i'm gonna use a no-ip.com domain but i want something semi witty, ideas ?05:35
RAOFlifeless: As long as your code guarantees it will never branch the P4s can be quite fast :P05:35
imbrandonso far we have liked *.isasecret.com *bounceme.net and ummm yea05:35
LaserJockimbrandon: why not wordpress.com05:35
imbrandonLaserJock: so i can install my custom rolled themes and plugins05:36
LaserJockimbrandon: how about imnotbrandon.com05:36
lifelessRAOF: yahuh. branch. Lets see. Thats what. IF ?!!!!!05:36
imbrandonLaserJock: hehe yea but i'm trying to work with the free no-ip domains here hehe05:36
RAOFlifeless: You're smart.  I'm sure you can write some useful program that has no conditionals :)05:36
imbrandonsince i dont have the cash to reg a new domain right now05:36
LaserJockimbrandon: you can't do mrs.imbrandon.com ? :-)05:37
imbrandonahh nice, lemme ask if she likes that05:37
imbrandongood idea05:37
imbrandonhrm nope ;(05:38
LaserJockslightly egotistically and selfcentered perhaps, but it's funny05:38
imbrandonheh thats what she said, just before "no" heh05:38
lifelessRAOF: I can yes, problem is the software stack. 1) Fix the kernel. 2) Profit.05:38
LaserJockimbrandon: how about thepantswearer.imbrandon.com?05:39
imbrandonseems like all the good *.isasecret.com domains are taken , like life. love.05:39
imbrandonshe dont want "brandon"05:39
mdomschstupid question, but, in debian/changelog, what's the field 'gutsy', 'hardy' etc. actually used for?05:39
LaserJockyeah ... I wouldn't either ;-)05:39
mdomschand does apt ever care?05:39
StevenKimbrandon: kernelbug.isasecret.com05:40
imbrandonmdomsch: the release its built and installed to05:40
mdomschand installed into...05:40
imbrandonapt dont, some buildd env's do05:40
mdomschah, that's the key - apt doesn't care05:40
LaserJockI think it's useful more on the developer end than the user end05:40
imbrandonbasicly if its not built via soyuz or dak then it dont matter05:41
persiamdomsch: Some of the archive acceptance tools use that to select the build and deployment environment.05:41
mdomschso that's not my constantly-reinstalls-the-same-package bug05:41
LaserJockmdomsch: ahhh05:41
LaserJockmdomsch: is that from a PPA?05:41
mdomschLaserJock, no, linux.dell.com/repo/dists/cross-distro/dell-firmware/05:41
imbrandonmdomsch: more likely a depend/confict/replace bug05:41
LaserJockPPA has a known bug that makes packages with PreDepends or some similar fields to constantly reinstall05:42
mdomschimbrandon, no conflict/replace05:42
mdomschand depends looks like:05:42
mdomschDepends: firmware-addon-dell (>= 0:1.1), firmware-tools (>= 0:1.1)05:42
persiamdomsch: Do you have Provides: ?05:43
mdomschwhich I think is sane05:43
imbrandonhrm, can you pastebin the control file ?05:43
StevenKmdomsch: Why a epoch of 0?05:43
imbrandonepoch are evil hehe05:43
mdomschre epoch: good question, it's unnecessary05:44
mdomschthose packages don't define epochs, so it's safe to remove05:44
* persia suspects the epoch is stuck now, if the package is being distributed, as'0' > ''05:44
FujitsuIsn't no epoch equal to 0?05:44
mdomschneither firmware-addon-dell nor firmware-tools define an epoch, so, ok05:45
mdomschbut it's not failing due to missing deps05:45
mdomschapt/aptitude/synaptic just keep thinking the installed package system-bios-... isn't up-to-date05:45
mdomschwhen it clearly is05:45
imbrandoncould it be because the epoch is 0 ? e.g is that a legal value ?05:46
mdomschpersia, yes, it can have a Provides line, but it fails both when it does and when it does not05:46
persiamdomsch: Just to make sure, that control file goes through an expansion parser before becoming source, so you're not redefining the set of generated packages at build time, right?05:46
persiamdomsch: No, you likely don't want Provides:, but Provides isn't versioned, which might have been a source of confusion (but isn't)05:47
mdomschpersia, right05:47
mdomschI _do_ want a provides for some packages05:47
mdomschpackages have binary packages in two forms05:47
LaserJockmdomsch: what does apt-cache policy <package> give?05:47
persiaSure, but if you're not providing either firmware-addon-dell or firmware-tools, that wouldn't be the issue.05:48
mdomschLaserJock, http://pastebin.domsch.com/1905:48
mdomschthe other form is system-bios-poweredge-2950, which Provides: system-bios-ven-0x1028-dev-0xabcd05:49
mdomschwhich is so I can have packages with pretty names, but programatically look up the package via aptitude install system-bios-ven-0x1028-dev-0xabcd05:49
FujitsuIt's the epoch.05:50
LaserJockmdomsch: I think it's the epoch05:50
LaserJockdarn, Fujitsu beat me too it05:50
persiamdomsch: That's it.  The candidate apparently has an epoch, but the source isn't defining an epoch.05:50
* mdomsch rebuilds w/o the epochs05:50
mdomschif that's it, I'm kicking myself05:50
FujitsuAs an empty epoch is equal to 0, so apt's local lists don't have it.05:50
imbrandoni beat you both to it , hehe05:51
imbrandonalthough i wasent sure and it was a question :)05:51
LaserJockguessing doesn't count ;-)05:52
Fujitsuimbrandon: I brought that up first :P05:52
LaserJockI thought it first so there :p05:52
* GoldenPony crushes LaserJock.05:54
* LaserJock expires ... leaving the Golden Ponies unfinished05:55
persiaHow can something unfinished act in a crushing manner.  I suspect GoldenPony just wants more playmates.05:55
* GoldenPony grumbles.05:56
* LaserJock notices GoldenPony is limping and decides he has to put'er down :(05:58
mdomschLaserJock, Fujitsu, persia, imbrandon you folks are geniuses06:05
mdomschthat was it06:05
LaserJockmdomsch: awesome, easy fix :-)06:05
imbrandongeniuses i doubt ( leaste in my case ) but experince in weirdness with dpkg/apt/etc is a plus :)06:06
persiamdomsch: Don't forget to close your bug :)06:06
mdomschdoing so now :-)06:07
* TheMuso has just managed to get Ubuntu's cdimage building system working locally, or least I think so. Still waiting on seeing whether it builds a gutsy i386 image first.06:59
LaserJockwow, really?07:01
TheMusoLaserJock: Yeah.07:01
TheMusoIts building the image now, but it still may fail, but things are looking good.07:01
TheMusoOnce I get hardy i386 mirrored, I'll be able to build my own hardy disks, which will be rather handy.07:02
TheMusoWith the exception of the live disks, but thats my next project.07:02
=== SWAT__ is now known as SWAT
warp10Hi all!07:24
superm1the live disks are the fun ones though :)07:24
sakhiwarp10: hi07:27
warp10sakhi: hi :)07:27
imbrandonTheMuso: wow, mind sharing how to do that ?07:37
imbrandoni would love to be able to roll my own07:37
LaserJockme too but I think I'm gonna cheat and use Reconstructor or some such on a Desktop CD07:38
* imbrandon thinks TheMuso should blog about it07:39
superm1imbrandon, as discussed at uds, the plan is to expand the cdimage script to make it more usable for derivatives07:41
superm1imbrandon, so joejaxx and TheMuso are both working with it07:41
imbrandoni'd love to help too, i'd probably not be able to dedicate much time to it, but a bit here and there07:42
superm1until its ready for general consumption, if you want to see how the mythbuntu disks were rolled for 7.10, i can point you at a bzr tree for that07:42
superm1it was a custom script that I wrote07:42
imbrandoncool thanks07:44
TheMusoimbrandon: I'm just playing with it atm, but once I've confirmed that it works properly for hardy as well as gutsy, I'll be starting a fresh, and I'll document everything.07:58
TheMusoimbrandon: And I also have to test-build a live filesystem.08:00
dholbachgood morning08:07
=== greeneggsnospam is now known as jsgotangco
RAOFMan, *awesome*.  It's possible to trick Rhythmbox's gapless playback engine into playing two songs at once :)08:09
sorenHow so? Setting the overlap time extremely high?08:09
dholbachhey soren08:10
sorenHi, dholbach!08:10
superm1imbrandon, next time you file an update to mplayer (even for a rebuild), can you please remember to update the bzr branch08:11
Gunner_Srpersia: I am working on bug #145074 and I see to encountered an error that is similar but different to the bug raised in the first place.08:18
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145074 in xgalaga "xgalaga-hyperspace crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14507408:18
imbrandonsuperm1: i tried but it never fully checked out08:23
superm1imbrandon, its a huge branch (especially the way its organized now)08:24
imbrandonsuperm1: is there a good reason the packing isnt kept in a seperate branch like most packing stored on LP ?08:29
imbrandonthat would help tremendusly08:29
superm1imbrandon, yes there is08:29
superm1the way that its organized, the rc2 upstream version is in its own branch08:29
superm1and then each release branches from the upstream version08:29
superm1and adds in the debian/ directory via patches08:29
superm1directly in bzr patches that is08:30
persiaGunner_Sr: Firstly, you'll likely get better assistance for asking a question generally to the channel.  Secondly, if you7ve dicovered a different bug, and can fix that as well, it's better.08:30
persiaErr..  And if you wait around, I have a chance to answer.08:30
superm1imbrandon, this way when there is a new release, the upstream version branch is updated, and then the different release branches merge from it08:31
superm1and add/remove appropriate patches08:31
imbrandonhrm still seems excessive, no worries, i just wont touch it again, if i cant grab the source in less than 1 hour no need for me to mess with it08:32
persiaDoes it really take that long to checkout the mplayer sources?08:34
imbrandonthats when i cancled it both times i tried to check it out08:34
persiaThat's no useful then.  Is there some tool that allows cleanup of a bzr branch?  Otherwise there's no point.08:35
imbrandonwell really if the vcs control field is used it should be for the packaing , not the unpacked orig08:36
persiaActually, I kinda like having the unpacked orig in the VCS (and think pristine-tar is really cool), but not at that cost in updates.  it's not worth an hour.08:36
superm1imbrandon, siretart can go into an depth discussion about the different "modes" of storing packaging and the advantages of them08:37
superm1he described them to me at UDS08:37
superm1s/depth/in\ depth/08:37
imbrandoneg bzr get http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/amarok/debian08:37
superm1imbrandon, were you using bzr+ssh?08:37
superm1or http?08:37
superm1or sftp08:37
imbrandonhttp branch08:37
imbrandonand ssh_bzr08:38
superm1imbrandon, bzr+ssh is significantly faster.08:38
superm1i dont recall it taking an hour to checkout though08:38
imbrandonpoint is the vcs control field is for packing not upstream sources, i;m not saying dont keep them arround in bzr but ....08:38
imbrandonjust like svn on alioth08:39
superm1well the thing is packaging is in that url though too08:39
imbrandoncan i co and commit only the packing ?08:39
persiaimbrandon: There's different schools of thought on that (and in svn in alioth).  Both have strong arguments.08:39
superm1imbrandon, no you can't, because the patches applied in the ubuntu bzr tree require you to have all the source there still08:40
imbrandonsuperm1: huh ?08:40
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
imbrandonthe patches are applied to the source in bzr already ?08:41
superm1imbrandon, there are source changes to things outside the debian directory.  traditionally those would be handled by packaging patches in debian/patches08:41
superm1but the way things are implemented here, they are directly applied08:41
imbrandoneww ok, even more reason not to touch the package again, ok08:41
imbrandonhow is one supose to work with whats in the archive and whats in bzr and upstrem and keep i streight from the "outside" ?08:42
superm1well the idea is to be using feature branches08:43
superm1so you've got your upstream bzr branch, and the ubuntu package is considered a "feature branch" of the upstream branch08:43
superm1now say you've got a patch for gnome-screensaver08:43
superm1you go and branch off the ubuntu feature branch08:43
superm1apply your patches, test08:43
imbrandonright but that totaly screws regular group maintainers like me, if i had known the source was ptached and repackd i wouldent have touched it08:43
superm1see how its working08:43
superm1once you are ready, you merge the two branches back into the ubuntu feature branch08:44
imbrandonsounds like a good project branch on LP, but NOT a good vcs control branch08:44
superm1well you didn't necessarily need to know exactly how this branch worked for what you were doing, it was just a matter of letting that checkout finish, commit your update and carry on08:44
imbrandonwell really it does, i dont want to be uploading code i dont know where came from thats not in the org tarbal08:45
imbrandonso it does matter to me08:45
superm1well when you did this, did you not see all the code changes in the .diff.gz and wonder what was going on before uploading then?08:46
\shFujitsu, do I see it right, that -security stuff is being announce again on -changes?08:46
superm1not to mention, all of the changes are indeed in the bzr history.  you can see who made what changes exactly when and even look at the history of each file08:47
imbrandonsuperm1: right but i dont care about the source, i wasent updating the source, i was updating the packing08:48
imbrandonits kinda the same thought as to why upstream shouldent include debian/ in the tarbals08:48
Fujitsu\sh: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes_1-1ubuntu108:48
Fujitsu\sh: The fix must have been cherrypicked, or Kees has been doing things differently..08:49
persiasuperm1: imbrandon has a good point about orig.tar.gz.  Look into pristine-tar: if you can't recreate the upstream distributed file, your repo is inherently untrustworthy.08:50
superm1well if the speed of this process was (is) the issue, i'd say have a checkout of this branch sitting around.  i committed your changelog entry just now, it took less then 5 seconds to push up, so things are much faster once you've got that checkout there (not to mention the ease of bzr update versus finding the dsc and dget)08:50
superm1persia, well you can though08:50
superm1persia, the repo for the orig.tar.gz is the other bzr tree08:50
superm1that this branched from08:50
persiasuperm1: Do the md5sums match?08:51
superm1persia, the get-orig-source in mplayer's debian/rules was used to build the upstream branch.  it was committed as is from that rule08:52
imbrandonsuperm1: haveing a bzr checkout of every package in ubuntu localy isnt an option08:52
superm1so you could do an export of the upstream branch, tar it up and do it an md5sum comparison and they should both match08:53
imbrandonatleaste not for most08:53
persiasuperm1: Right (which is nice), but get-orig-source only gets run on package update, not on applying a patch or a rebuild (note that I like VCS packaging, I'm just pointing out possible issues).08:53
persiasuperm1: They won't because of timestamps, etc.08:53
superm1imbrandon, that's why it makes more sense for folks in motu-media (generally) to be working on packages like this rather than the general MOTU consensus08:53
superm1persia, i see your point.  I might visit adjusting how that get-orig-source rule is done for that reason at some point.08:54
superm1so that it instead grabs from the bzr tree to build the .orig.tar.gz08:54
superm1the upstream bzr tree that is08:55
Fujitsusuperm1: Upstream has a debian/.08:55
persiasuperm1: Take a look at pristine-tar.  99% of my stuff is patches to things already in the repos rather than maintenance, but from the docs it looks like it should do the right thing.08:55
superm1Fujitsu, yeah, so currently that has to be moved to debian_upstream at some point08:55
superm1its a matter of where that should occur though08:56
imbrando1damn connection08:56
superm1persia, looks interesting.08:57
persiasuperm1: If I'm reading the docs right, it should mean you can get all the benefits of upstream-code-in-VCS, and still have reliable checksums for verification.08:57
imbrando1persia: mind reposting the link, i got dissconnected09:00
=== imbrando1 is now known as imbrandon
persiaimbrando1: No link: pristine-tar package in hardy09:00
imbrandonahh ok09:00
=== Sikon is now known as LucidFox
imbrandonsuperm1: in anycase, thanks for doing the commit for me :)09:04
superm1no prob.  it's a good excuse for me to nab a few more of the mplayer bugs i've been meaning to grab at the same time09:04
superm1well at least in the morning that is.  bed for now.  night all09:05
\shmoins jonp09:15
\shi mean09:15
jonoheya \sh09:15
geserHi \sh, jono09:16
\shjono, are there any recordings of the jam session from UDS? I want to listen to a singing ogra09:16
jonohey geser09:16
jono\sh: not sure09:17
\shjono, that would be a cool thing...good news everyone, please cheer to the almighty Canonical Allstars Band with their song "Do you know it's Christmas" DeathMetalStyle ,-)09:19
\shjono, TBH, you should think about it doing it next time during LinuxTag on Stage...imho this would be something new for the LinuxTag ;)09:21
jono\sh: a gig?09:21
\shjono, yeah :)09:21
jono\sh: that would be cool :)09:22
\shjono, wasn't it LUGRadio who thought about the "Ubuntu Song"? "Dum Dum Dum Dee Ubuntu" or something? there was something09:23
jono\sh: Ubuntu, Ubuntu, They Drink It In The Jungle :)09:24
\shjono, hmm...what about "Welcome To Ubuntu...Get it 'cause it's free" (music from guns'n'roses "Welcome To The Jungle")09:26
jononice :09:26
huatsmorning everyone09:44
\sh"Take Me Down To The Ubuntu City, where the ground is brown and the community is pretty"09:44
Kmos\sh: hehe09:46
Kmosdh_icons doesn't work for .xpm right09:57
Kmosdholbach: dh_icons doesn't work for .xpm right10:00
dholbachKmos: gtk-update-icon-cache does not work on .xpm files - it's just for icons that are installed into /usr/share/icons10:01
Kmosdholbach: but if they're installed at /usr/share/icons as xpm doesn't work either.. ?10:04
dholbachI'm not sure that GTK's icon cache will return an .xpm file if you ask it for let's say "gtk-dialog-error", size 4810:05
dholbachyou can ask in #ubuntu-desktop10:05
dholbachbut I don't believe it makes sense to 1) install .xpm files in /usr/share/icons, 2) invoke dh_icons in the packaging just for that10:06
Kmosdholbach: i'm asking it, because a debian package does exactly that10:07
dholbachKmos: you can try asking in #ubuntu-desktop10:07
Kmosdebian+ubuntu change.. in ubuntu luca falavigna added a dh_icons on it10:07
dholbachespecially people like seb128 and lool should know10:07
dholbachplease check if there aren't any other icons shipped by the package10:08
dholbachif it's only the .xpm in usr/share/icons, it's probably not necessary10:08
Kmosyeah, it's only xpm10:08
Kmosi talked with author also10:08
dholbachbest to ask in #ubuntu-desktop then10:09
Kmosalready done10:09
Kmosthanks for help10:09
dholbachno problem10:09
Kmosbug 17550810:09
ubotuLaunchpad bug 175508 in reportbug-ng "reportbug-ng reports bugs to Debian instead of Ubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17550810:09
* \sh is bored...10:09
Kmosthat's an interesting one10:09
\shKmos, why don't you ask bastian venthur about adding LP support to it? :)10:13
pkhis this the right place to ask questions about getting updated device drivers into the ubuntu kernel, or do I need to go somewhere else?10:13
\shKmos, he is in need of devs...read http://blog.venthur.de/2007/12/08/want-to-get-money-for-nothing-and-chicks-for-free-too/10:13
dholbachpkh: #ubuntu-kernel might be a better place10:13
pkhof course...  cheers :)10:13
Kmos\sh: hehe.. everyone needs $$$ :-(10:14
Kmos\sh: that will be cool to have LP support =)10:14
\shKmos, go for it10:14
SWATI need to create a few database tables for a package. When I use mysql in debian/rules it whines about mysql connection errors. Any tips? (I'm using pbuilder/cowbuilder)10:17
FujitsuSWAT: Why are they needed during build, and not at runtime?10:18
SWATthey're not, they're only needed at runtime, but I want to install them together with the package10:20
Fujitsudebian/rules is only executed during build. You probably want to look into dbconfig-common.10:21
SWATI will, thanks10:22
geserHi Hobbsee10:34
Hobbseehey geser10:35
=== LucidFox is now known as Sikon_Japanese
=== huats is now known as huats_
dholbachhey huats_11:33
huats_dholbach: hey11:33
huats_dholbach: got to go for lunch.... talk to you this afternoon11:33
dholbachhuats_: enjoy it! :)11:34
persiaCould someone please direct me to an appropriate support forum for issues with dbus in hardy?  #ubuntu+1 doesn't seem to exist yet.11:34
Fujitsupersia: #ubuntu+1 has been there for severeal weeks.11:35
persiaFujitsu: Hmm.  I guess I had a typo in my first /join.  Thanks :)11:36
Hobbsee#ubuntu+1 has existed for several releases.11:37
persiaHobbsee: Yes, it just tends to disappear shortly after the release, and I apparently can't spell, so I got a "No such channel" warning.  All sorted now :)11:38
Hobbseethis is true11:38
FujitsuIt is closed until the archive opens.11:39
persiaFujitsu: Thanks.  I didn't realise it was tied to such a trackable external event.11:39
HobbseeFujitsu: or until it's vaguely usable, anyway11:42
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
FujitsuIt used to be archive opening, at least.11:42
mruizhi dholbach ... I received a reply from jazzva (he understood the situation and I gave him some tips to continue)11:55
mruizhi all !11:55
dholbachmruiz: great11:55
dholbachgreat you two are working it out11:56
mruizdholbach, I finished with hardware-monitor conflicts... I have to modify the changelog with the remaining changes11:57
=== persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Hardy Heron is in active development. | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Go Merging! http://dad.dunnewind.net/universe.php | QA resources from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com
\shFujitsu, would you like to deal with bug #174133? :) I can't find the time right now to work on it11:58
ubotuLaunchpad bug 174133 in rsync "[CVE-2007-6199 and CVE-2007-6200] rsync is vulnerable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17413311:58
mruizdholbach, I'm filling a merge bug against the source-package... wait me a moment12:05
dholbachmruiz: take your time :)12:05
mruizups... dholbach I found the merge bug assigned to someone, but the solution isn't correct. I'll add my work there12:10
mruizdholbach, do you think that we have to recommend the use of DaD to avoid situations like this one?12:12
dholbachmruiz: sure we can advertise it, but I still feel that cases like this will happen again12:13
dholbachit's too easy to miss12:13
mruizsure... new contributors don't understand the use of some tools12:15
slicerAnyone have time to do a review update of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mumble ?12:17
DaveMorrisslicer: you noticed the lintian and linda errors?12:21
* persia encourages everyone to always check the bugs when looking at a merge: in many cases there are a couple easy bugs that can be fixed at the same time, and it allows one to easily see if someone else has made a claim, or provided a (possibly partial) solution.12:22
slicerDaveMorris: It complains that I use 3.7.3 for standards, which I was told to use.12:22
DaveMorrisyeah I jsut noticed that12:22
DaveMorrisI was told to use for my package which just got accepted12:22
mruizthanks persia ;-)12:23
slicerDaveMorris: Well, persia is the one who told me, and he is here.. :)12:23
DaveMorrisyeah MOTU's never agree on things ;)12:23
persiaslicer: Unfortunately my browser is dead currently.  What am I defending?12:23
slicerpersia: Using standards: 3.7.3 isntead of
DaveMorrissince linda complains that it's too new12:24
persiaDaveMorris: We're all likely wrong, and tend to be good at one or two things.  By listening to our disputes, it is hoped you will develop an opinion that is based on technical merits :)12:24
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
DaveMorrisW: mumble; 3.7.3 is a newer Standards-Version.  This package appears to conform to a newer Standards-Version that has  been released. One of us is incorrect.12:25
DaveMorris^^ is the linda warning12:25
StevenKLinda is12:25
persiaslicer: Yep.  Debian-policy in hardy is, and the fourth digit isn't meaningful.  Both lintian and linda need updates on REVU: lintian is ready, but linda will probably be another couple weeks.12:25
DaveMorrispersia: is this info documented somewhere?12:26
slicerOk, then we're all in agreement :)12:26
persiaDaveMorris: `rmadison debian-policy`12:26
persiaDaveMorris: For further information on tracking how linda and lintian compare with standards, it is worth looking at their bug entries on LP and in the Debian BTS.  Not all the bugs are correct, but it's often the best guide to see if the tools are mistaken.12:28
DaveMorrisslicer: I think you may need to change "is licensed under the GPL, " to "is licensed under the GPL2, "12:28
DaveMorrisin debain/copyright12:28
DaveMorrisfor your packaging licence12:30
persiaDaveMorris: Why?  GPLv2 and GPLv3 are compatible licenses.12:30
DaveMorrisI was informed that I should specify the version of the licence12:31
brooniepersia: They're compatible with each other but may not be compatible with other things.12:32
persiabroonie: True.  I can't see, but I don't remember mumble having issues with GPLv3 connections (although I could be mistaken).12:33
broonieAnd in any case the thing is to get the licensing information for the package.12:33
broonieSure, but someone might want to link it with a new library or something.12:33
persiabroonie: "packaging license", as in "the Debian packaging is copyright 2007 <packager> and is released under the terms of the GPL"12:34
slicerBTW. Currently, the system-user for murmur is called Murmur (with a capital M) to avoid username clashes. However, this is incompatible with policy for most other distributions, meaning any scripts which reference the user name have to be changed. How bad would it be to simply call the user (and group) "murmur"?12:34
persiaslicer: It'd be better to use "murmur", rather than "Murmur".12:34
broonieAh, right - in that case you at least want to exclude GPL1.12:34
persiabroonie: Do you need to specify if you point to /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL?  Don't you just get the current newest GPL by default?12:35
slicerpersia: Is that "officially" ok? Because I chose Murmur after reading a document somewhere.. hold on.12:35
persiaslicer: I won't be able to see the results of the link you're about to post: ask someone else.12:35
slicerpersia: No lynx? No telnet? ;)12:36
slicerBTW, about the licensing, the current text is:12:37
slicerThe Debian packaging is (C) 2007, Thorvald Natvig <slicer@sourceforge.net> and12:37
sliceris licensed under the GPL, see `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2'.12:37
slicer.. Which, in my mind, seems to clearly indicate GPL-2. But I can change it as I'll change that username anyway :)12:37
persiaslicer: My system is fairly broken right now.  I'm sorting it, but I'd trust a policy doc over my memory, and don't have my bookmarks to find the counter-example.12:37
slicerpersia: The webpage basically says that there is no policy; there should be one, and until there is, here's what everybody else has done.12:38
persiaslicer: Ah.  That makes sense :)12:38
slicerIs the name GPL2 or GPL-2?12:39
brooniepersia: persia I'd say so, if only to ensure clarity (it's clear if the work can be reused under an older version or not just after a new one is released).12:40
persiabroonie: OK.  Makes sense.12:40
persiaslicer: Based on that, you might want to follow DaveMorris' advice.  I'd suggest "GPLv2"12:41
gpocentekI'm a bit confused by the freeze for hardy universe, is there a wiki page about that?12:50
persiagpocentek: Which freeze?12:51
gpocentekpersia: sorry, "freezes"12:52
mruizpersia, Debian Import freeze12:52
gpocentekit's more general for me12:52
gpocentekI don't remember if we decided to have a NEW freeze sooner than usual for instance12:53
persiagpocentek: Ah.  There should be links from HardyReleaseSchedule, but my memory is that we have DIF (which is like it was in the past), FF, which now includes UVF and NPUF, Beta Freeze, and RC Freeze (both of which are like in the past)12:53
persiaSo, we hit DIF on the 14th, and need to more carefully evaluate anything brought in from Debian.  We hit FF on 14th February, and should just be in bugfix mode (and need UVFe where appropriate).  For NPUF, we should try for uploads by end-January to allow the archive-admins time to do NEW processing.12:55
frafudholbach:  FYI: a new version (0.2.8-0ubuntu2) of mousetweaks is in revu (upid 947); please ignore upid 946 as it contained an error in debian/changelog. I have also posted a comment with the changes compared to version 0.2.8-0ubuntu1. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=94712:55
persiaAfter Beta, only RC bugs should get fixed, and after RC, all bugfixes should be peer-reviewed and be for RC issues.12:55
gpocentekpersia: thanks! this is clearer now :)12:55
=== Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee
persiagpocentek: Sure.  There's some email in the archives from pitti explaining the rationale for the change: basically an expanded "we have too many freezes, and should simplify).12:56
persiafrafu: Consider urls of the form http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mousetweaks .  These should always point at the latest upload.12:57
lionelpersia: the mail on ubuntu-devel-announce was a bit confusing this morning.12:59
lionelbut thanks for the explanation :)12:59
persialionel: I know.  Complain to slangasek: he's used to having a single freeze policy for the entire archive (and still does when moonlighting).12:59
frafupersia: thanks for the indication; I will bookmark the url13:00
persiafrafu: Test it first: I'm only guessing :)13:00
lionelpersia: hehe :). There is a nice sun here ;)13:00
frafupersia: tested and bookmarked  :-)13:01
huats_persia: lionel  I can confirm there is a nice sun here also13:03
=== huats_ is now known as huats
lionelhey huats :)13:03
huatshello lionel :)13:03
mruizdholbach, I need your opinion about the changelog: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47824/13:04
* persia notes that dholbach is often busy, and that mruiz may do well to also ask others for advice13:05
mruizpersia, sure! I have to interact with the team... ;-)13:05
mruizthen, someone can review the following merge changelog http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47824/ ?13:06
ScottKdholbach: What is in your proposal about Kmos that hasn't already been tried?13:07
zulScottK: string him up lashed and quartered?13:09
ScottKzul: That wasn't dholbach's proposal.13:09
persiaUbulette: Would LP work as a prism app?13:10
Ubulettewell, sure but my attempts were not convincing as I use LP with tons of tabs (in firefox) and I often use the backward and forward buttons.. which a webapp is not supposed to do. So depends on the way you navigate the website. You can still try, it's as easy as creating a bookmark.13:14
persiaUbulette: So I'd just stick the LP URL in the prism definition dialog?  Good point though: LP doesn't work very well without back/forward.  Maybe I need to find a better way to work around my issue then.  Thanks.13:15
Ubulettepersia, yes, url + name, and you get a desktop launcher13:16
Ubulettepersia, as I said, some sites are better suited than others to be webapps. LP is not :( Gmail, Greaders, ..  are13:17
persiaUbulette: Yep.  LP is not.  I'm browserless right now, and hoped prism could reduce my pain, but not very much :)  Thanks for the explanations though: it's certainly good in cases where it does work.13:18
UbuletteI wish someone will create a css file to make google reader and gmail look like gnome apps :)13:19
Ubulettepersia, browserless ? why ?13:20
mruizpersia, can you give me a comment, please? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47827/13:20
persiaUbulette: Firefox ate my (rather complex) session too many times due to poor support for seamless upgrades.  Epiphany is dead due to some dbus confusion (which I'm tracking).  Should be sorted in the next few hours, but there's too many reasons to hit LP to not have something open.13:21
Ubulettepersia, try firefox3, session support is very good13:22
ScottKpersia: Konqueror.13:22
Ubuletteor try seamonkey :)13:22
Ubuletteor kazehakase13:23
persiaUbulette: That would require me digging out my old session so as not to wipe it.  My firefox2 session is precious to me, as I have hopes of getting it back.13:23
persiaScottK: I'm much more likely to go with midori than konqueror, but I may end up down that road...13:23
=== ember_ is now known as ember
Ubulettepersia, ff3 uses a different profile. it will just import your existing ff2, but it will not touch it13:23
* ScottK doesn't even know what midori is, but likes Konqueror more and more the more he uses it.13:24
persiaUbulette: "import" != "not touch".13:24
persiaScottK: webkit + bits from konqueror + GTK.13:24
Ubulettepersia, i wrote that part so i'm sure :)13:24
FujitsuThat sounds like a nasty hybrid...13:24
ScottKI guess you consider GTK a feature, so makes sense.13:24
persiaScottK As time passes, this is becoming less true :)13:25
=== apachelogger__ is now known as apachelogger
persiaFujitsu: It's supposed to be light and sweet, and doesn't have any KDE stuff: just leveraged some Konqueror wrapping stuff to make it clean.13:25
ScottKAh.  Seeing the light.13:26
persiaScottK: It's largely that I have apps that require GNOME, but none that require KDE.  I use QT a lot though (and QT exclusively on my laptop).  On the other hand, my previous experience with KDE was negative enough to drive me to enlightenment, so there's a high barrier to return (although I understand the last couple major revisions have improved things a bit).13:28
apacheloggerpersia: libksquirrel updated13:28
persiamruiz: I really don't think "new upstream release" is a correct remaining change for -1ubuntu1.13:28
persiaapachelogger: Cool (but 150 minutes late).13:29
mruizpersia, ok...13:29
* mruiz fixing an error13:29
persiamruiz: You likely also don't need the rebuild comment, since a merge forces a rebuild.13:29
apacheloggerpersia: I forgot to upload before I went to bed ;-)13:29
Ubulettepersia, comments have been resurrected on revu (for seamonkey) ?13:29
mruizpersia, what's about "Build-Depends: dropped Debian reference to libgtkmm-2.4-dev (>= 2.6.0) due all Ubuntu versions are greater that this value." ?13:30
persiaUbulette: I'm not sure what you mean.  If it was archived, an upload unarchives.  In either case, I think you've gotten enough review, and would do well to send it to the sponsors queue (as it's just an update).13:30
persiamruiz: Is that change part of the variation from the Debian package?  I'm just reviewing the changelog: you'll need to verify that everything mentioned in the changelog also appears in the debdiff against the Debian package, and further, that each of those patches is useful.13:31
Ubulettepersia, through a new upgrade bug + debdiff ?13:31
persiaUbulette: I like interdiff better than debdiff, but debdiff works if your get-orig-source doesn't.13:32
persia(interdiff due to new upstream)13:32
mruizpersia, yes... this is a variation between Debian and Ubuntu.13:32
persiamruiz: Then it belongs in the changelog, whereas "new upstream release" and "rebuild" don't show in the debdiff, so they don't belong in the changelog.13:33
Ubulettepersia, no new upstream here, I just fixed your stuff, that's why I reposted to REVU.13:33
=== Sikon_Japanese is now known as LucidFox
Ubuletteisn't debdiff using interdiff now ?13:35
Ubulettereading the sources, it does13:36
persiaUbulette: Yes, debdiff uses interdiff when it can, but the way it uses interdiff means that it doesn't work when dealing with new upstream versions with new or changed binary blobs.13:36
slicerEr. If there's a package my package doesn't depend on, but which gives enhanced functionality, what's the correct header?13:37
broonieRecommends or Suggests depending on how likely it is that someone would use the enhanced functionality.13:38
slicerThanks :)13:38
ikoniaimbrandon: are you currently awake13:39
persiaslicer: Just to expand, use Recommends if it's normal that the other package would be installed, and Suggests if it's useful, but not expected in the typical case.13:42
guest22Could someone give some advice on choosing between Build-Depends-Indep and Depends in a case not described in the packaging documentation? I'm working on a package which has a number of dependencies which are checked by the source configure script, but are only required at runtime. Are the configure script warnings sufficient justification for making these Build-Depends-Indep, or is Depends okay because the source will build wit13:49
guest22hout them?13:49
guest22That seems to have been truncated - the initial part was "Could someone give some advice on choosing between Build-Depends-Indep ..."13:49
slicerpersia: I found the relevant policy document. It's definitely a "Suggests". Basically, I need festival for text-to-speech support, but it's not something people will miss.13:50
=== doko_ is now known as doko
persiaguest22: If they are just warnings, you can safely ignore them.  If configure spits an error, and make dies, you need the b-d-i to get it built.13:51
persiaslicer: festival recently got downgraded, in favour of espeak.  I don't suppose your app can work with espeak, can it?13:52
guest22persia: Okay, Depends it is. Thanks.13:52
slicerespeak? I'll check.13:52
slicerFirst I've heard of it :)13:52
slicerpersia: Yes, from what I can see, I should probably switch to espeak, and will do so for 1.1.2. That will be a 10-20 line diff though, so it probably doesn't belong in the packaging for 1.1.1?13:54
persiaslicer: Your call.  I tend to add patches in packaging with abandon, if that helps distribution integration.  When I've a candidate that integrates well, I review the patches, and send some or all of them upstream, generally bundled in manageable feature-specific chunks.13:56
slicerpersia: I am the upstream, so I'd be applying this to current SVN (which already has quite a few other differences from 1.1.1) and then copy those files into my mumble-1.1.1 tree which I maintain for this packaging.13:57
mruizMOTUs, I was building a merged package and I used: debuild -S -sa -v1.4-1ubuntu1 (as the documentation says). I got  "parsechangelog/debian: error: -v<since> option specifies most recent version"13:57
* persia 's record for lines of patch in the interest of integration is 158413:57
persiamruiz: You want -v$(previous version uploaded to ubuntu)13:58
slicerpersia: I thought it was "good form" to keep the .diff.gz as small as possible? If I can, I have a few fixes that will be included in 1.1.2 that I'd like to add to the 1.1.1 package. They're not showstoppers, but they fix minor bugs.13:58
persiaslicer: As a long-term goal, there should be no patches to the upstream code (regardless of diff.gz size).  As a short-term goal, the package should integrate seamlessly with the distribution.  As with many things, there are multiple schools of thought as to how best manage this.14:00
ScottKslicer: I'd suggest that you don't add features, just bug fix cleanup/integration related changes.14:00
slicerIs there an easy way to check a binary or library and see which symbols it imports from the libraries it links to? In gutsy, libQtCore imports libfreetype and libfontconfig, and there's absolutely no need to.14:01
persiaScottK: Does using the Ubuntu default text-to-speech engine rather than the previous one count as "integration" for 10-20 lines in your book?14:01
ScottKpersia: Absolutely.14:01
* persia concurs with ScottK's analysis of what to patch14:02
slicerOkidoki, back to work then.14:03
mruizthanks persia ;-)14:03
persiamruiz: No problem.  Merges are tricky.  Personally, I find it easier to do from scratch, rather than relying on MoM or DaD, as it's easier to get the changelog right (because you need to manually investigate all the changes).  On the other hand, my method takes longer.14:04
dfilonipersia: any news about wxwidgets2.8?14:10
persiadfiloni: I haven't seen any bug traffic.  Based on the latest state, it should get picked up by a sponsor before too long.  I can't personally build it without adjusting my build system, or I'd upload the candidate.14:12
dfilonipersia: ok thanks14:12
* persia encourages someone with the ability to build large sources to sponsor bug #13388814:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13388814:13
persiadfiloni: Seeing that, you might want to adjust the title to match the version you've actually submitted :)14:13
=== _czessi is now known as Czessi
dholbachScottK: what's new about my idea is that Kmos would be under an official surveillance and won't disrupt anybody - my main point is trying to solve the problem generally14:13
dholbachScottK: it's not a decision as I hopefully made clear, but the proposal I'd like to add to the discussion14:14
ScottKdholbach: From my perspective you aren't asking for things that he's already been asked to do and not done.14:14
persiadholbach: I don't think it's "official surveillance" when you start it not wearing your MC hat (but that's a nitpick)14:14
ScottKdholbach: I understand.  That's why I'm here discussing.14:14
=== apachelogger is now known as apachelogger_
dfilonipersia: done :)14:15
dholbachpersia: sorry, maybe I should have been more clear in my email and I'll respond to yours: I'm wearing my MC hat, but I was not presenting a decision with my email14:15
dholbachpersia: does that make sense?14:15
persiadholbach: Ah.  That makes sense (but wasn't clear to me from the email).14:15
dholbachpersia: ok, I'll reply in a sec14:15
dholbachScottK: I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. What am I asking or not asking for?14:16
ScottKdholbach: When you, who are the Ubuntu CC rep for MOTU, asked him to not do anything without checking with you first and he ignored that after several days, how was that not official.14:16
HobbseeScottK: it's not official, as dholbach did not say "and i hearby will smite you with lightning bolts if you do not obey"14:16
ScottKdholbach: I meant to say I understand that there is no decision yet and so I am trying to discuss.14:16
persiadholbach: Essentially I just want to see an official result (pending internal MC deliberation).14:17
ScottKHobbsee: Yes and I didn't say mother may I either.14:17
dholbachScottK: to me official is an announced decision by a governance body14:17
ScottKdholbach: OK.  I don't see that as any different, but I understand.14:17
* persia encourages dholbach to practice the powers of Thor and Zeus in preparation for that possible eventuality14:18
dholbachpersia: scottK urged me to get more input on the whole issue, that's why I thought it prudent to present my view, let others weigh in and then vote on it14:18
ScottKdholbach: I will tell you up front that I will not personally be satisfied with anything that doesn't depend just on his ability and willingness to follow instructions.14:18
dholbachpersia: and I think it makes sense to hear other opinions on it as it's not just a "fire and forget" decision, but much more important than that14:18
ScottKpersia: Which I did because I don't want this to be me versus Kmos.  I think it's something that's negatively impacted the whole community.14:19
persiadholbach: Sure.  I agree with that as well: I guess it's a language thing: when I see "not as MC, but personal statement" I assume it's "hats off".  I'm basically happy with your email, but didn't see it as an official statement of policy.14:19
ScottKdholbach: From my perspective anything that depends on Kmos doing what he's told/agreed is essentially doing nothing.14:19
HobbseeFWIW, i feel out of touch, and unsure i want to participate in it anyway, so am withholidng comment.14:20
persiaScottK: Agreed, and thanks for raising it to MC.  I'm not sure we have all the structures in place to handle it well, but I'm hoping for the establishment of useful precedents, and would be very pleased by a result that allowed Kmos to contribute positively to the community.14:20
Hobbseeif having people like kmos repeatedly causing trouble is acceptable, then he drags MOTU down to his level...and i'm not sure that i want any part in that.14:21
ScottKpersia: I generally agree, but have concluded that that last bit just isn't possible.14:21
persiadfiloni: Just got the bugmail.  Thanks.14:21
ScottKHobbsee: I think that's be a useful comment to the MC ML thread.14:21
persiaScottK: I'm reserving final judgement for now, but that doesn't mean I disagree with you.14:21
HobbseeScottK: this requires elloquence not required on irc.14:21
ScottKHobbsee: True.14:21
dholbachScottK: I understood that, when I first read your email. What's different is that it's a council decision. "xyz won't listen to the MC anyway." expresses mistrust in the MC's ability to deal with that even before a decision was made.14:22
ScottKHobbsee: I just want to make sure it's in the record.14:22
HobbseeScottK: ah right14:22
sorenThere's just something really special about misspelling "eloquence" :)14:22
DaveMorrispersia: how large is large?  I can build it for you and chuck the output to a http server for you if you want14:22
=== cprov is now known as cprov-lunch
Hobbseesoren: yeah, i thought i'd misspelt it.  thanks.14:22
ScottKdholbach: That's not my perspective.  My perspective is that he has a very well established track record of agreeing to do/not do stuff and then doing the opposite shortly thereafter.14:22
sorenHobbsee: Oh, any time! :)14:23
Hobbseesoren: single l.  damn.14:23
Hobbseesoren: you were my personal dict :)14:23
persiaDaveMorris: sponsors are supposed to build before uploading, so that doesn't help me.  I know it builds (there's a buildlog in the bug), and I know it works, but I won't upload without building it personally.  Thanks anyway.14:23
ScottKdholbach: It's nothing specific to the MC.14:23
DaveMorrisoh, ok14:23
warp10Hi all!14:23
ScottKdholbach: I would also ask you to consider that so far the lesson I'm learning from this is that I don't complain enough.14:23
dfilonihi warp10 :)14:24
warp10dfiloni: yo! ;)14:24
persiaScottK: You complain plenty.  You just didn't complain to MC early enough (not that we had MC in a dispute resolution role when the issues began)14:24
dholbachScottK: I see this as the precedent for the MC to deal with conflict, that's why I aim for a general solution that adresses the specific concerns.14:24
ScottKdholbach: Additionally, that trying to resolve things in private is pointless.14:24
ScottKpersia: Right.14:25
ScottKpersia: So no more trying to quietly work things out in private.  Everything an official complaint to the MC.14:25
dholbachScottK: I agreed with you a number of times already: this had been dealt with much earlier - that's why it has gut so ugly now.14:25
ScottKdholbach: Yes.  So please do something other than nothing (which is how I read your proposal).14:25
persiaScottK: I'd suggest addressing things to the individuals concerned in private first, and only escalating to MC if that does not lead to a resolution.  No need to push everything to MC.14:26
dholbachScottK: I won't take your last point.14:26
ScottKdholbach: You're choice.  I'm telling you how I see it.14:27
persiaScottK, dholbach: Please wait for me to type something...14:27
* ScottK waits.14:27
* Hobbsee demolishes the world.14:28
* soren hands the CoC to Hobbsee14:28
sorenI'm quite sure the CoC doesn't allow planet demolition.14:29
persiaEssentially, the current non-official statement of oversight is proposed.  When MC comes to a resolution (2 days left in 12), a final decision will be taken.  For the current proposal to be acceptable, it should include some indication of what happens if oversight is not sufficient.  It's not worth disputing whether oversight is something: "official oversight" is new, if there are consequences.14:29
Hobbseesoren: on the contrary.  i'm quite sure it doesn't explicitly forbid it.14:29
FujitsuHobbsee: Damn, I wish mako had thought of that. We're doomed!14:30
sorenHobbsee: "If you really want to go a different way, then we encourage you to make a derivative14:31
sorenHobbsee: You're supposed to fork the world and demolish *that*.14:31
mruizMOTUs, is a good idea to include the pbuilder log in a merge bug?14:31
ScottKmruiz: Not needed.  It's good to say that you built it.14:31
mruizthanks ScottK14:31
persiamruiz: It's only useful if there is a new change that fixes a FTBFS in a non-obvious way.14:31
mruizwhat's about diffstats ?14:32
Hobbseesoren: heh14:32
ScottKpersia: I still see that as not resolving things.14:32
persiamruiz: Completely useless.  That's possibly useful for new upstreams, when requesting a UVFe, but that's not required until after feature freeze.14:33
persiaScottK: Even with consequences?14:33
ScottKpersia: I specifically asked for action to be taken due to past abuse.  That essentially says "All is forgiven.  Don't mess up again."14:33
ScottKpersia: I'm way past that.14:33
persiaScottK: Further, if MC provides "official oversight", and manages the problem so it doesn't affect you, should you care?14:33
joejaxxGood Morning All14:34
ScottKpersia: As long as the negative inputs continue, it's a distraction for all of us and hurts Ubuntu.  I care.14:34
persiaScottK: Ah.  Different philosophy.  I'm happy with non-participation or no further mistakes.  If you're looking for punishment, I can't debate it.14:34
ScottKGood morning joejaxx.14:34
joejaxxScottK: :)14:34
ScottKpersia: I just don't see there being any realistic chance of the contribution turning positive, so why kick the can down the road.14:35
ScottKpersia: It's not a matter of punishment.  It's a matter of stopping things.14:35
persiaScottK: You don't need to do so.  If MC chooses the proposal as a solution, it's MC's responsibility to ensure no negative impact.  If MC is successful, you shouldn't see it.14:36
dholbachScottK: What I want to address in my proposal is 1) no disruption for others (that was one of your main concerns), 2) have a general solution for cases like this, 3) having surveillance and control over what's going on.14:36
ScottKpersia: IMO a sufficient number of "Please do ..." or "Please don't ..." have been ignored that anything that requires voluntary compliance is nothing.14:36
* persia agrees with dholbach's ideas, although sistpoty's point about what to do in case of failure is also useful14:36
dholbachpersia: right, that's a topic we should discuss in the thread14:37
ScottKdholbach: As long as he can file bugs, point 1 is not met.14:37
Hobbseepersia: but does ScottK have the confidence in the MC to do their said responsibility?14:37
dholbachScottK: they will go through the hands of those executing that surveillance14:37
persiaScottK: For lack of confidence in the solution, I can understand that.  But to assume that MC will fail before MC starts is unfair to MC.  If MC doesn't remove the problem (whether through education or other means), I'll likely be as unhappy as you.14:37
ScottKdholbach: How can you ensure that?14:38
persiaHobbsee: Maybe not, but as it's the first time MC will have done this, I think that's unfair.14:38
ScottKpersia: I've presented the problem and am asking them to remove it.14:38
ScottKHobbsee: My confidence in the MC is not the issue.  My confidence in Kmos doing anything he says he will do is the issue.14:39
persiaScottK; I claim the problem is the timesink of trying to see if there is value in any given bug comment, and trying to find them all, rather than the individual involved.  I liked your solution, but I'm willing to give MC a chance (but not for an extended duration).14:39
* ScottK just doesn't see any point in redoing stuff that's already been tried.14:40
ScottKAnd I don't see any difference worth mentioning between dholbach himself asking for stuff and the MC asking for stuff.  Unreliable is unreliable no matter who asks.14:41
ScottKIf he's only reliable when there is official surveillance on, then as soon as the probation period ends, it'll be back to the same old problem.14:42
* persia expects an official MC statement to carry enforceable weight, whereas any given developer is only a developer14:42
ScottKdholbach: I would like to have a date certain when the MC plans to reach a decision on this so I can be ready to go to the CC.14:42
dholbachScottK: Whatever will be decided will be an official decision by the governance body and he will have to abide by it.14:43
dholbachScottK: we can discuss the timeline on the mailing list14:43
* persia thought the 12-day rule applies14:43
ScottKdholbach: I guess the difference is that you're willing to accept the pain of whatever happens when he doesn't.  I don't think that's reasonable.14:43
ScottKdholbach: ML is find for schedule.14:44
dholbachno, I'm not accepting anything - can you please calm down14:44
ScottKdholbach: I'm actually pretty calm.14:45
dholbachScottK: Why don't you reply with all your specific complaints about my proposal to the mailing list, so everybody can read them and reply to them.14:45
ScottKdholbach: OK.  I understand you don't want to discuss this further.14:46
dholbachthat'll help in the decision process and maybe we can come up with a different solution together14:46
dholbachScottK: no, I just don't think it makes sense to discuss it here, where 1) other people have no chance to follow up on it, 2) you're accusing me of being responsible for general pain in the project just because I propose something else than you do, 3) also you're accusing me of doing nothing14:49
dholbachThat doesn't really help with a solution, does it?14:49
persiadholbach: I don't see #2 in ScottK's comments.14:49
ScottKdholbach: OK.  I think you're the one that needs to calm down.14:49
ScottKdholbach: I understand that you think your proposal amounts to doing something.  I disagree.14:50
dholbachI spent a lot of time thinking about the problem and talking to various people about it14:50
ScottKdholbach: I don't doubt your sincerity in trying to solve the problem or the effort you've put into it.  I just don't like your proposal.14:52
=== iceman_ is now known as iceman
mruizMOTUs, I finished with a merge... I added the related debdiffs to the bug and the build with pbuilder was successful. Where do I have to put the packages: REVU or PPA ?15:01
ScottK2mruiz: Put the debdiff in a bug and subscribe UUS.15:03
mruizScottK2, done15:04
persiamruiz: Just to expand on that, if you submit a debdiff (or an interdiff for an upgrade) the sponsors will be able to reconstruct the package, so you don't need to put the package anywhere.15:05
* pochu didn't know DIF means no more merges...15:08
persiapochu: It doesn't exactly, it just means that all future merges need a rationale, as in "contains fool feature foo" or "fixes bug bar", and that we should take care to avoid any more transitions.15:10
* persia considers sending email to ubuntu-motu@ clarifying the "Freeze" situation for universe15:10
pochupersia: thanks for the explanation.15:10
Hobbseehum.  do i have any universe merges that i care about, then?15:11
Hobbsee bug #12078915:12
ubotuLaunchpad bug 120789 in libgdal-grass "dependency broken: can't install" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12078915:12
mruizpersia, +1 with the clarification15:14
slicerpersia: Do you know if the espeak in hardy is fixed so it doesn't just open /dev/dsp?15:16
slicerpersia: Because under gutsy, espeak can't be used concurrently with any other audio program.15:16
persiaslicer: No idea.  Check with either the audio team or the accessibility team (the latter is more likely to know).15:16
slicerpersia: Do they have a #ubuntu-something?15:17
persiaslicer: Again, you're asking questions to which I don't have an answer :)15:17
slicerpersia: A fool can ask.. ;)15:18
pfeelshey people15:19
persia(and is right to do so, although not prefacing an individual may result in more answers)15:19
* slicer found it, it's #ubuntu-accessbility .. Who'd have guessed? ;)15:20
geserHobbsee: I guess I can't persuade you to sponsor bug 157668?15:20
ubotuLaunchpad bug 157668 in scons "[Merge] scons 0.97.0d20071203-1ubuntu1" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15766815:20
slicerpersia: I think I'll hold off using espeak by default until I've got that answered. As it is, espeak hogs the audio device, meaning mumble doesn't work. Which is "not good" :)15:22
persiaslicer: Right.  festival is still in universe, but thanks for trying.15:22
slicerpersia: The code is done and in SVN, so it's just to add -DTTS_ESPEAK to switch when/if it gets fixed.15:23
persiaslicer: Excellent :)15:23
mruizhow the UUS queue work?15:30
gesermruiz: you subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to your bug and wait for a comment or an upload15:30
geserit gets usually processed in less than a day15:30
persiamruiz: People subscribe bugs to it, and the sponsors look at it, and either comment or upload.  The process is explained from a link from the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing (my apologies I don't remember the exact URL)15:30
mruizthanks geser and persia :-)15:31
* persia notes that UUS seems to be running around 3 days just now, but may be speeding up again once the DIF passes, and sponsors aren't chasing the last merges15:32
slicerOk, as the espeak issue is postponed... I've renamed the user Murmur->murmur, added a murmur.defaults and cleaned up the scripts a bit. Does anyone have time to do a review update of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mumble ?15:42
=== cprov-lunch is now known as cprov
bddebianHeya gang15:49
geserHi bddebian15:49
bddebianHi geser15:49
jdstrand\sh_away: I closed bug #173646 based on your comments, but wanted to follow up. I believe that dapper-feisty are not vulnerable as they are 1.2, but did you verify that gutsy isn't (1.3.6)?15:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 173646 in acidbase "[CVE-2007-6156] cross site scripting vulnerability" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17364615:52
ScottKslicer: I'd suggest you pull the new lintian from Hardy and run both source and binary (.deb) against it to see if it notices anything.15:53
LucidFoxslomo, are you here?15:55
* ScottK cheers Bug 130220 reaching "Fix Committed" status.16:01
ubotuLaunchpad bug 130220 in malone "LP marks bugs fix released multiple times and sends multiple mails when a bug number appears in more than one .changes file" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13022016:01
DaveMorrisCan someone do a revu of my package http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libserial please16:04
jeromegjdong: hello; are you there ?16:06
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
slicerScottK: I'll install hardy in a vm, will help me more easily test.16:09
ScottKslicer: That's good too.  The lintian binary should work just fine on Gutsy.16:10
persiaScottK: have you started the backport for .41 yet?16:11
ScottKpersia: I requested it yesterday.16:11
ScottKpersia: I subscribed you on the but since I knew of your interest.16:11
persiaScottK: I must have been confused then.  I saw the sync, but not the backport.  Perhaps I missed a message.  Thanks.16:12
ScottKpersia: It needs someone with Feisty to do a test.16:12
ScottKMaybe it's me that's confused.16:12
ScottKpersia: It's Bug 175366 in any case.16:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 175366 in gutsy-backports "Please backport lintian (1.23.41) from Hardy to Gutsy and Feisty" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17536616:13
* persia doesn't expect many packagers to be using feisty by default.16:13
ScottKpersia: The previous one was backported to Feisty, so ...16:14
ScottKIf no one tests is, it won't get done.16:14
ian_brasildoes anyone know if ftp can mangle the checksum on a dsc file16:15
persiaScottK: Makes sense.  feisty only has though, which meant the last one actually applied to feisty.  .41 has a new policy level, and I only support the backport to gutsy because not all packagers have upgraded yet (the ride is rough pre-DIF)16:15
persiaian_brasil: Shouldn't do: it's ascii.16:15
jeromegScottK: i will test it in a minute16:15
persiaScottK: I am subscribed.  My mistake.  Thanks.16:16
ScottKjeromeg: Please comment in the bug and mark the Feisty task confirmed after you do.16:17
jeromegScottK: yep16:17
ian_brasilMmm...must be something else then ;)..on an unrelated topic i requested a motu blog some weeks back and i have not heard anything yet (or i have heard back and lost the e-mail)16:18
* ian_brasil wonders who to poke16:18
Kopfgeldjaegerhi. could someone have a look at the newest avidemux package in REVU? the current version is very very very.... very old16:20
jonnymindHello. I think I have everything streamlined in bug #174470. Can please someone check if there is anything else needed?16:26
ubotuLaunchpad bug 174470 in ubuntu "Package for the Falcon Programming Language" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17447016:26
jeromegScottK: done, comment added16:29
ScottKjeromeg: Thanks.16:29
jeromegScottK: np16:30
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
geserpersia: need we merge till DIF only "Outstanding Merges" or also "Updated Merges"?16:37
persiageser: "Outstanding" definitely, "Updated" by preference.16:37
geserwas this similar handled during the dapper cycle?16:39
persiageser: Haven't you been doing this one more release than I anyway :)16:39
persiageser: I think for Dapper, it was a bit more chaotic.  My vague recollection was that MoM was first introduced then, and turned off at DIF.16:40
persiaI wasn't very involved in Edgy, but for Feisty, we kept chasing merges post DIF as we were really far behind.16:40
geserpersia: your first sponsored upload was for dapper while mine for edgy16:40
jonnymind... later.16:40
persiaFor gutsy, we did a reasonable job, but there were still a couple "Outstanding Merges" about a month before UVF.16:41
persiaThis time, I'm hoping we can get all the "Outstanding" merges done in 2007, and actually focus on bugfixing and integration up to feature freeze.16:41
* persia notes that Dapper had a couple extra months added to the development cycle, which skewed things oddly16:42
geserpersia: yes, that's what I wanted to ask. During gutsy merges were allowed till UVF, I did expect the same for hardy so I didn't pushed that much doing merges16:42
geserpersia: how does this merge "stop" affect new upstream versions? are they allowed to be merged before FF?16:42
persiageser: Please do as many as you can as soon as you can.  We really want to get NBS clean in the next few weeks, or it becomes hard to evaluate stability.16:42
persiageser: Sure, if you can convince a member of ~ubuntu-dev (including yourself) that it provides some useful feature for hardy, or fixes some useful bug for hardy.16:43
geserpersia: will do, in the last week I tried to get the number of FTBFS down and neglected my merges16:43
slicerHm. The hardy installer is too large to fit inside the X11 dekstop it starts :)16:43
persiageser: No worries.  Your efforts with FTBFS have been great, and are more useful than merges in many cases :)16:44
geserpersia: does the same also apply for new upstream syncs after DIF?16:44
persiageser: I don't see any difference between a sync and a merge, except for who does it.  I've been watching syncs since Dapper, and as long as I had a sensible Rationale (cool feature, annoying bug), I've never had an archive-admin turn down a universe sync request between DIF and FF (except once, when the "must be ACK'd by a member of ~ubuntu-dev policy came into effect)16:45
DaveMorrishmm someone has just pushed a ppa verison of rhythmbox to revu16:45
persiaDaveMorris: That's not right, but at least it gets pushed down the the bottom where it can be safely ignored :)16:46
DaveMorrisyeah they prop didn't specify a taregt with dput16:46
DaveMorrisI think revu is the default isn't it16:46
geserpersia: so we are in a small UVF already?16:47
persiageser: More, that there are no automatic systems flushing in new upstream versions: it requires a member of ~ubuntu-dev to do it manually.16:47
persiaIt doesn't require approval of the UVF team, or an RC bug, or a diffstat, or any of that.16:48
persia(or rather, will once DIF hits)16:48
geserpersia: yes, but during gutsy there wasn't a need for a rationale between DIF and UVF/FF16:49
persiageser: Speaking personally, I wouldn't sponsor anyone's requests unless they explained why it was good, and I provided a rationale to the archive-admins for all the syncs I requested.  I would expect other sponsors to also encourage non-members of ~ubuntu-dev to explain themselves, and I would expect members of ~ubuntu-dev to have a reason other than "I was bored".16:51
persiageser: Just to make sure I'm clear, as you're a member of ~ubuntu-dev, any new upstream you want, you should upload.16:52
persia(but if it causes a transition, you get to fix it)16:52
persiaAlso, for the many Ubuntu-only packages, I'd accept a rationale of "Hasn't been updated for hardy yet" for at least the next while.16:53
geserpersia: have we a locking method for the open merges, so that work doesn't get done twice? DaD?16:54
persiageser: No, we're still broken.  We've DaD comments, and a few "Please don't merge" bugs.16:55
geserok, I'll announce then here on with merge I'm working16:56
persiageser: sounds sane.  We really need to figure out a sensible locking policy for hardy +1: with both parents + mdt + manual merges + lpbugs.py having transformed completely, it's no longer easy to keep track.16:58
ScottKpersia: Check with the last person that touched it really solves the problem almost completely.16:58
DarkSun88Hi all16:59
persiaScottK: Not at all.  Lots of people aren't around, and lots of people don't care.16:59
ScottKpersia: Merges aren't emergencies.  One can ask and wait a bit.16:59
ScottKpersia: My almost are the 'don't care/don't respond' ones.17:00
persiaScottK: Sure, but why bother, especially when someone's MIA.17:00
ScottKpersia: What's the Ubuntu definition of MIA?17:00
persiaMy thought is that if someone cares, they'll either merge or block the merge somehow.  We should get them all done before DIF, and anything that causes a wait delays that.  If we merge to UVF, when do we bugfix?17:01
ScottKI think using the comments on DaD is the simplest thing where there's doubt.17:01
ScottKHow do UVF and bug fixing relate?17:01
persiaScottK: Not active, and perhaps not responding to email.17:01
=== lakin_ is now known as lakin
ScottKSo wait a few days and then comment on DaD.17:02
geserScottK: if we had much time, I'd agree with you, but if we really want to get the most done before DIF, do we really have time to wait till someone reads his mails or joins here?17:02
persiaScottK: I'd agree with that, except many people don't use DaD for various reasons.17:02
ScottKpersia: Sure, and I wouldn't enforce using it's merge tools, but using the status page isn't onerous.17:02
blueyedATTENTION: http://dad.dunnewind.net/grab-merge.sh always deletes all files in your current directory! - there's missing a "|| exit" (or "set -e")!17:02
blueyedLutin: ^^ can you fix that?17:03
persiaScottK: Also, if it's your package: set yourself as the maintainer.  If it's a MOTU package, any Contributor (including MOTU) should feel free to hit it: it's only the rare complicated or poorly documented merge that matters.17:03
Lutinblueyed: no, I can't, there's a clear warning about that. it's not a bug17:04
=== _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde
persiaScottK: Depends.  I tend to use mdt and look at LP bugs for merges.  Going to DaD is one more step.  On the other hand, I'd argue that anyone doing a merge without checking LP for easy bugs to close along the way is not doing the merge properly.17:04
lionelblueyed: it's the same with grab-merge.sh from MoM17:04
ScottKpersia: This is a fundamental point of disagreement.  I think team maintenance means we work together as a team and not anyone in the team should do whatever strikes their fancy.17:04
blueyedLutin, lionel: no. MoM's has "set -e"!!17:05
persiaScottK: Yep.  It's likely the core point of many of our disagreements.  I don't think we can resolve that anytime soon.17:05
blueyedLutin: which warning? Why then ask in the first place?? You can only stop it with ctrl-c. answering "n" deletes also all files!!17:05
blueyedluckily this was "only" /tmp for me..17:05
ScottKpersia: Ideally we'd get the MoM U/I updated and it's all be good, but as long as we have multiple tools, someone is going to be inconvenienced.17:06
Lutinblueyed: what's the relationship with set -e ?17:06
ScottKpersia: I think filing a bug that says "don't merge" is an abuse of LP.  It's not a bug.17:06
blueyedLutin: "[ $ANSWER = y ]" will exit then. But not without "set -e". Please add "|| exit" there.17:07
persiaScottK: That I can agree with.  I don't like to use MoM myself, but it's the documented official way, so I can accept needing to check it.17:07
persiaScottK: Perhaps.  I think of LP as both a bug database and a workflow system.17:07
ScottKpersia: It is, but asking to NOT have something brought in from Debian is clearly not a bug of any kind.17:08
persiaScottK: Right.  That'd be workflow.17:08
ScottKThen find something other than a bug to call it.17:09
Lutinblueyed: hum true, not sure why set -e got lost. dont have access to the server though17:09
blueyedLutin: who has?17:09
Adri2000blueyed: I'll fix that, thanks. dunno why nobody detected that earlier though17:09
mruizhi all. I want to work on the bug #160965. I'm waiting for some comments related to changes introduced by Debian. I sent an email to the DD, but I don't have a reply until now... how is the procedure for these cases?17:09
ubotuLaunchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.10.8-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/16096517:09
blueyedThanks, Adri2000. Maybe because those who had reported it, lost there $HOME? ;(17:10
persiaScottK: Let's table this.  We can at least agree that a MoM update is the right solution, and data sharing between MoM and DaD would be a benefit.17:10
persiaScottK: Separately, once we hit UVF, let's make a lot of noise about the issue, and try to get a real solution for the next release :)17:11
=== jpatrick_ is now known as jpatrick
slomoLucidFox: now i am17:19
alex-weeji've downloaded a source package, used cdbs-edit-patch to edit a patch, now how do i make a "debdiff"?17:19
bddebiandebdiff foo_old.dsc foo_new.dsc17:20
alex-weejbddebian: i only see one .dsc17:20
bddebianalex-weej: Ah, did you not bump the changelog version? :)17:21
alex-weejbddebian: no17:21
alex-weejbetter tool than gedit for adding a changelog entry?17:22
bddebiandch -i will insert a new entry17:22
alex-weejok it's trying to insert crap into the current version17:22
alex-weeji guess i need to update control too?17:22
bddebianShouldn't need to17:22
alex-weejit's trying to put my changelog entry under the last one for the current version17:23
alex-weejah, dch -i17:23
alex-weejok it thinks  my email address is alex@flash17:23
Adri2000blueyed: fix committed, should be online at :3017:23
bddebianalex-weej: You can either fix that manually or export DEBEMAIL=<my email addr>17:24
alex-weejbddebian: so i've updated the changelog, how do i make these 2 dsc's?17:26
mruiznorsetto, Hi. I want to work on the bug #160965. I'm waiting for some comments related to changes introduced by Debian. I sent an email to the DD, but I don't have a reply until now... how is the procedure for these cases?17:26
ubotuLaunchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.10.8-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/16096517:26
norsettomruiz: well, you were asking the DD why he did these changes or why he didn't mention them in the changelog or?17:27
mruiznorsetto, both17:28
alex-weejhelp! when i debuild'd my package again it failed17:28
alex-weejcan i only do it once?17:28
norsettomruiz: what is the relevance of this to the sync/merge?17:29
alex-weejbddebian: i tried to debuild again with my changelog updated and it just fails now :(17:29
mruiznorsetto, I understood that it is important -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fetchyahoo/+bug/160965/comments/117:30
ubotuLaunchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.10.8-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete]17:30
bddebianalex-weej: Did you start from scratch?17:30
alex-weejbddebian: no17:30
alex-weeji didn't want to write my patch again17:30
norsettomruiz: yes, but I don't have in my memory all the 100s of bugs I have commented about, can you summarise it briefly?17:31
bddebianalex-weej: Copy your patch out of the way, re-extract the original source package copy your patch back in, update the changelog, and rebuild17:31
alex-weejbddebian: ok, did i do something wrong?17:31
alex-weejcan i actually only build it once?17:31
bddebianOh, you'll need to re-pull the source package17:31
mruiznorsetto, you asked about dropped ubuntu changes17:31
alex-weeji struggle to understand how my workflow is supposed to be when working with debian packages17:31
affluxhi! I merged briquolo some time ago. It got changed again in debian, but the only debian change was orphaning the package. Is this worth a merge?17:32
bddebianalex-weej: No, you just over-wrote the original source package since you didn't bump the debian version17:32
norsettomruiz: right, we would loose those if we sync17:32
alex-weejbddebian: i see!17:32
bddebianafflux: I would say no personally17:32
alex-weejbddebian: i just copied the .patch and the changelog over to the newly pulled source package17:34
alex-weejshould that be enough?17:34
alex-weejcan i just debuild now?17:34
blueyedAdri2000: thanks. but it's not online yet.17:35
affluxbddebian: okay, I'll Ieave it17:36
Adri2000blueyed: it is now17:38
norsettomruiz: can you check the new package from debian? They are at 2.11.2-1, so, this might be obsolete17:39
bddebianalex-weej: "should" be, try it ;-P17:41
alex-weejbddebian: seemed to work. i made my debdiff but it is very strange17:41
bddebianhow so?17:42
mruiznorsetto, great... a new version ;-)17:42
alex-weejbddebian: i see these diff.gz things17:42
alex-weejbddebian: are they useful?17:43
alex-weejbddebian: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10846061/diff that look OK?17:47
alex-weejbddebian: i don't understand why there are changes to stuff that i haven't changed though :(17:47
alex-weej -SUBDIRS = standard17:48
alex-weej -DIST_SUBDIRS = $(SUBDIRS) bubble17:48
alex-weej +SUBDIRS = standard ubuntu17:48
alex-weej +DIST_SUBDIRS = $(SUBDIRS) bubble ubuntu17:48
alex-weeji didn't change that!17:48
affluxalex-weej: that line looks like it is from the patch file which is beeing diff'ed.17:49
alex-weejoh yeah17:50
alex-weejman, diffs of diffs17:50
affluxalex-weej: I love that too :)17:51
bddebianYeah, ouch :-(17:52
=== RainCT is now known as UbuCat
=== UbuCat is now known as RainCT
=== cprov is now known as cprov-away
=== norsetto is now known as norsetto_limbo
blueyedIs a watch file update worth a merge? I have it ready, but need to get it sponsored..18:03
=== rpereira_ is now known as rpereira
ScottKblueyed: Does the old watch file work?18:07
blueyedScottK: no, it does not - therefor it has been changed I guess.. ;) I've now also fixed two lintian issues (additional to merging), so it appears to be good IMHO.18:14
mruizbye all18:14
ScottKblueyed: Sounds good.18:15
LaserJockhmm, what's this Freeze stuff all about18:21
LaserJockseems like we're consistently making it harder on ourselves18:22
ScottKLaserJock: I agree.18:29
LaserJockwell, I guess if we get all the merges done by tomorrow it won't really matter much18:30
* ScottK doesn't see the sense in saying "Let's have all the by hand work done by the automatic import cut off"18:30
LaserJockif we don't merge then we'll release stuff that's not just 6 months old, but perhaps 1 year old18:31
LaserJockfor some packages we'll be very much behind Debian18:31
LaserJockincluding probably bug fixes18:32
LaserJockit makes sense to only pull in useful merges *if* you have the ability to actually do that18:32
ScottKMaybe we should just file sync bugs on everything to keep up.  I think that may actually be encouraged now.18:32
LaserJockbut I dont' think we currently have the ability to actively know what needs to be brought in18:32
ScottKRight, so let's just have them all.18:32
LaserJockwell, if we trust Debian then it should be straightforward to pull from there as long as possible18:33
ScottKPersonally, I think we've done reasonably well in the past without this new unannounced (not until now AFAICT) deadline.18:34
geseryes, it would be good to know such a deadline a little bit earlier than two days before18:35
DaveMorrisbtw http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=rhythmbox needs to be nuked, it was upload by mistake (should of gone to ppa)  I emailed the uploader and he confirmed it.  I can forward it on if you wish18:36
mruizScottK, then the task for today and tomorrow is to work hard on merges?18:42
ScottKI guess that's the theory.  I already did what I was going to do.18:42
* geser is currently merging lynkeos.app and multisync0.9018:48
LaserJockScottK: we've had such announcements before, but it was pretty much "you're losing automatic syncing so you probably want to do as much as you can"18:50
LaserJockfor Universe18:50
ScottKSounds about right.18:50
=== jpatrick_ is now known as jpatrick
slicerScottK: Ok, it took some time to get a working hardy install, but it compiles and verifies mumble with lintian/linda.18:56
ScottKslicer: Both on the source and binary packages?18:57
asacRAOF: there?18:57
slicerScottK: *nod*18:58
slicerScottK: As in, 'debuild' and 'debuild -S -sa' both ran lintian and linda and didn't complain.18:59
slicerWell.. lintian said that it had ignored 1 warning and 1 error, which are the ones I've specified in the lintian override.18:59
ScottKslicer: That's on the source package.18:59
Ubulettewhy don't I (everyone?) have access to .changes i REVU ? not even mine19:00
ScottKslicer: Also run lintian packagename.deb (using the actual name of the .deb) too.19:00
slicerBut.. I.. Argh, I just shut down the VM. Aight, I'll boot it again.19:01
ScottKUbulette: Because if you had upload rights someone could take that file and use it to upload to an actual repository.19:01
ScottKslicer: If you've added over-rides, be sure to carefully document the rationale (if you haven't).19:01
slicerScottK: It's documented on the REVU page. Do I need anything more?19:02
UbuletteScottK, hmm, ok. Fair enough, it should not be clickable then19:02
ScottKslicer: I would also document it in the package so when someone else looks at it next year they understand why.19:02
ScottKUbulette: Dunno why they did it the exact way they did it.19:02
slicerScottK: Er. Are #comment legal in lintian override?19:03
ScottKslicer: Dunno.  Never had to do one.19:03
jpatrickI have seen some19:03
* RainCT wonders how a .desktop file can have "Version=1.1" XD19:04
=== nuu is now known as nu
=== nu is now known as nuu
=== pochu_ is now known as pochu
nixternaldoko: have you figured a work around at all with the Java issue in Hardy (java: xcb_xlib.c:82: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed)?19:57
nixternalahh, but I just did20:02
nixternalexport LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK=true20:02
cdm10Hey, I've signed my packages, and added my public key to System>Admin>Software Sources - Authentication tab, but when I install from my PPA i still get the "not authenticated" error.20:08
=== norsetto_limbo is now known as norsetto
gesercdm10: are PPA signed now? afaik they aren't20:10
gesercdm10: for that PPA would need your private key20:10
affluxcdm10: you signed only the source packages, the binaries aren't as they are built automatically.20:10
slicerScottK: Ok, .debs, .changes, everything verifies with lintian. I added comments to the lintian override file.20:11
ScottKGood.  That'll all make your review smoother.20:11
cdm10geser, afflux: shoot, I didn't think of that... stupid me. Anyway, thanks.20:12
slicerScottK: It already verified, the only difference I've done is add the comments.20:22
ScottKslicer: That's good.  The new lintian matches for the new standards version.20:43
muuluuneed help pls?21:25
muuluuhello anyone21:26
DktrKranzmuuluu, expose your problem :)21:26
muuluuall type of linux random time freezing21:26
ScottKmuuluu: This is not a support channel.  Try #ubuntu.21:27
muuluui have Asus MB Core 2 Duo 6600, Geforce 7300 GS 400 watt power supply21:27
muuluui asked them many time times but there is no answer for me21:27
muuluui tried #linux same Suse same where can i go now :-(21:29
muuluuok thanks for ur responce anyway bye now21:30
nixternalimbrando1: pingerz22:09
=== jpatrick_ is now known as jpatrick
Lutindoes a core-dev have a minute to have a look at bug #173717 ? :)22:42
ubotuLaunchpad bug 173717 in grub "Grub has a build-depends-indep against a multiverse package" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17371722:42
Lutinapachelogger: ping ? about the filelight merge/sync22:57
RainC1good night23:11
blueyedScottK: any chance you're using postfix-policyd? (or somebody else?)23:14
blueyedbug 17573123:15
ubotuLaunchpad bug 175731 in postfix-policyd "postfix-policyd hangs at "connecting to mysql database:"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17573123:15
ScottKblueyed: No.  I'm familiar with it, but don't use it.23:19
blueyedScottK: the changelog from 1.82 seems "promising": http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=133598&release_id=53341423:33
blueyedDebian has still 1.82 though. I guess the best is to create an (inline) patch for this in Ubuntu, isn't it?23:34
* ScottK looks23:35
blueyedI can recommend the program in general: it's great for a mailserver.23:35
blueyed(if it does not hang that is)23:35
ScottKYes.  It's generally well thought of, it just doesn't fill a particular need I have.23:35
ScottKblueyed: It looks like the Debian maintainer hasn't been keeping particularly current.  You might want to just prepare a 1.82 package for Hardy.23:37
ScottKOnce we have that you can ask about an SRU for your bug.23:37
LaserJockwho's in charge of DaD these days?23:46
ScottKLaserJock: Adri2000 and Lutin.23:46
ScottKIIRC only Adri2000 has server access.23:47
ScottKblueyed: Looking at it some more, I'd say prep an upgrade for Hardy to 1.82.  I doubt Debian will do it soon.23:47
LaserJockLutin: still around?23:47
Lutinindeed. (I have bzr access though, and the code is auto-synced from there)23:48
LaserJockah, there you are23:48
LutinLaserJock: sort of :)23:48
LaserJockI was wondering if it is possible  to get a PTS link next to the LP link23:48
blueyedScottK: Ok. I'll file a bug about it and then look into it tomorrow.23:49
LaserJockIMO, PTS is the most important resource for merging23:49
LutinLaserJock: should be possible, yep. (although I really wonder if I'm even able to write that)23:49
LutinLaserJock: I really don't know anything about php, so if you can tell me how to do it, I'll commit it :) (or wait tomorrow for Adri2000 to do it)23:57
joejaxxwhere is my multiline irssi window notification plugin when i need it :P23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!