[00:47] <slangasek> lamont: are there any blockers you know of wrt merging gettext 0.17?  if not, I'll go ahead and chase it
[00:51] <slangasek> hmm, I suppose you'll be wanting to keep that hppa javaless patch in there for now, won't you :-P
[01:30] <slangasek> hrm. does MoM pull in translation updates from LP?
[01:31] <slangasek> the gettext merge seems to include updated translations of the GPL copyright header, which don't come from the previous Ubuntu diff
[02:02] <sabdfl> :-)
[02:03] <Hobbsee> oh noes, it's sabdfl!
[02:03] <Hobbsee> he's smiling!  he must be plotting something, too!
[02:03]  * Hobbsee brings out the evil white rabbit
[03:58] <Hobbsee> soren: so, fix it.
[04:36] <desrt> keybuk; !!! wru? :p
[04:37] <Hobbsee> desrt: he went mad, so we shot him
[04:37] <desrt> well, about time
[04:37] <desrt> all this ranting about InitKit
[04:37] <desrt> someone had to take the boy down
[04:38] <desrt> Hobbsee; how are you this evening (er... day)
[04:38] <desrt> ?
[04:38] <ion_> GCC could be renamed as KitKit, since it’s a kit you use to make kits.
[04:39] <Hobbsee> desrt: i'm doing OK.  fortunately, i don't have work today!  \o/
[04:39] <desrt> ion_; now that would just be silly!
[04:39] <ion_> duh
[04:39] <desrt> people who have work -any- day are suckers!
[04:41] <Hobbsee> heh
[04:47] <Burgundavia> desrt: I thought you were joking
[04:48] <desrt> about what?
[04:48] <Burgundavia> initkit
[04:48] <desrt> i'm not joking.
[04:48] <desrt> btw: Hal is being renamed to DeviceKit
[04:48] <Burgundavia> I just found the mailing list
[04:48] <desrt> (i'm also not joking about that)
[04:49] <Burgundavia> yes, well it and udev are going to undergo some sort of merger. I really don't understand much about that layer of my system
[05:02] <TheMuso> Wow. A merge?
[05:02]  * TheMuso sighs. Why don't people get it right the first time?
[05:07] <slangasek> TheMuso: "get it right" referring to udev and hal?
[05:08] <slangasek> if you ask me, udev was right from the beginning... :)
[05:08] <TheMuso> Yeah, referring to udev and hal.
[05:09] <TheMuso> And it seems that this crazy kit naming has caught on too much.
[05:09] <TheMuso> to me anyway
[05:10] <LaserJock> TheMuso: it's the new K*
[05:11]  * slangasek installs the Kit Desktop Environment
[05:11] <LaserJock> haha
[05:12]  * TheMuso hopes that that environment has AccessibilityKit.
[05:12] <TheMuso> Hmmm. Brltty to be renamed Braillekit. :p
[05:12]  * TheMuso ducks
[05:13] <LaserJock> heh, cool
[05:13] <lamont> slangasek: for now, lets keep the java-free hppa love, and I'll be working this week on bootstrapping java
[05:13] <lamont> (gettext)
[05:13] <lamont> slangasek: you wanna do that merge?  that'll let me go to sleep
[05:14] <lamont> otherwise, I'll do it in the morning. :-)
[05:18] <slangasek> lamont: already worked through it, want to sponsor it? :)
[05:18] <slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gettext/+bug/175775
[05:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175775 in gettext "Please merge gettext 0.17-2 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[05:18] <lamont> slangasek: sure... got a signed source.changes et al?
[05:19] <slangasek> can do
[05:20] <slangasek> lamont: http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/gettext_0.17-2ubuntu1_source.changes
[05:22] <LaserJock> hmm, anybody know if a MIR is needed for a lib split? It's the same source, just new packaging
[05:23] <slangasek> LaserJock: can you elaborate on what "lib split" means?
[05:23] <LaserJock> sorry
[05:24] <LaserJock> goffice0.4 was added because goffice has gone to 0.5 and 0.4 is still needed
[05:24] <LaserJock> goffice is in Main, goffice 0.4 was in gutsy so I would assume the code is ok
[05:26] <slangasek> why are they both needed in main?
[05:27] <LaserJock> I'm not sure yet if we need goffice0.4 in Main yet, but I *think* abiword is going to need it
[05:27] <slangasek> since that's code duplication, that's a case that should go through MIR
[05:27] <LaserJock> ok, just wondered
[06:47] <warp10> Hi all!
[06:50] <Hobbsee> infinity: ping
[07:57] <dholbach> good morning
[07:58] <LaserJock> good morning
[07:58] <dholbach> hey LaserJock
[08:19] <pitti> Good morning
[08:23] <stgraber> arghh, anyone here knows how I can make a laptop not to turn backlight off after 10min ?? I have no ACPI/APM loaded, X started with -dpms
[08:23] <stgraber> it's really old laptop crap (Toshiba from 1998)
[08:24] <warp10> pitti: good morning!
[08:26] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[08:26] <pitti> hey MacSlow, moin warp10
[08:27] <MacSlow> hey pitti, seb128
[08:27] <seb128> hi Mac
[08:27] <seb128> hi MacSlow
[08:43] <dholbach> bdmurray: do you think thekorn's text branch is ready for merging?
[08:44] <pitti> hey seb128, happy archive day
[08:46] <seb128> hello pitti, thanks
[08:46] <seb128> started the day with almost 300 items in NEW
[08:46] <pitti> ugh
[08:46]  * pitti hugs seb128
[08:46] <seb128> did somebody did new sources import from debian? ;-)
[08:47] <seb128> pitti: new-binary-universe-debian cleaned most of those so that's alright
[08:47] <seb128> pitti: I did wave glade and its binaries to universe too
[08:47] <pitti> ah, ok
[08:47] <pitti> seb128: yes, me (yesterday)
[09:09] <Riddell> pitti: please give back nip2/7.12.5-2build1
[09:10] <pitti> Riddell: done; just fixed the hal bug, BTW, I'll give-back kdepimplibs once it's built
[09:11] <Riddell> yay
[09:26] <geser> good morning
[09:28] <pitti> hi geser
[09:28] <geser> Hi pitti
[09:32] <dholbach> hey geser, hey pitti
[09:34] <warp10> pitti: bug #152579
[09:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152579 in bsdmainutils "calendar does not have new daylight savings time dates for the US" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152579
[09:37] <geser> Hi dholbach
[09:38] <dholbach> hey geser
[09:57] <doko> asac: may I bitch about the xulrunner insanities having to patch configure files?
[09:58] <glick> hello
[09:58] <glick> i have a question about patents
[09:58]  * Fujitsu patents asking questions about patents.
[09:58] <glick> heh
[09:58] <glick> what does this mean:
[09:58] <glick> This application claims the benefit of U.S. provision application Ser. No. 60/024,789 filed Sep. 9, 1996, now abandoned.
[09:59] <glick> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,272,467.PN.&OS=PN/6,272,467&RS=PN/6,272,467
[09:59] <glick> for that patent
[10:21] <seb128> mr_pouit: about the xfwm4-themes sync, don't you need the cdbs magic for the translations template update?
[10:30] <StevenK> Impressive. I have a merge on my machine I don't remember doing.
[10:34] <geser> StevenK: is this a bad sign or a good one?
[10:34] <StevenK> geser: I have no idea. :-)
[10:34] <persia> StevenK: For hardy?
[10:35] <StevenK> persia: Yup
[10:35] <StevenK> persia: I'm uploading it now
[10:37] <slomo> asac: what happend to the xulrunner/mono issue?:)
[10:41] <StevenK> Here's wishing dput had progress bars
[10:43] <geser> StevenK: put "progress_indicator = 2" into your dput config
[10:44] <StevenK> Ooooh
[10:45] <StevenK> Now I want to upload something else :-P
[10:47] <geser> How about uploading scons? ;)
[10:58] <asac> slomo: i dropped the ball yesterday after learning a bit about mono native bindings :). I will probably ask things later today though.
[11:22] <geser> pitti: please give-back: apt-zip
[11:23] <pitti> geser: done
[11:34] <lool> Not sure you people saw the Ulteo OO.o online desktop launch
[11:35] <lool> I'm browsing their /etc from oowriter's file > open, and it seems to be running on dapper
[11:35] <dholbach> lool: ulteo is baded on kubuntu afaik
[11:39] <Riddell> yes
[11:39] <lool> I kind of wonder what their security model is exactly
[11:51] <Riddell> lool: got a screenshot?
[11:54] <Kmos> morning!
[11:56] <pitti> Riddell: kdepimlibs given back, hal is in the archive now
[11:56] <lool> Riddell: Sure, there's nothing to see though
[11:57] <lool> Riddell: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/ulteo.png
[11:58] <Riddell> lool: groovy, is it using the NX java applet?
[11:58] <lool> Riddell: It's using a java applet; how could I check it's NX?
[11:59] <lool> I think I read about translating X events into AWT in some Google video
[11:59] <lool> It certainly looks like what they are doing
[11:59] <Riddell> lool: view source I guess
[11:59] <lool> Riddell:         archive="SSHVncApplet-0.2.9.4-3-signed.jar,SSHVncApplet-0.2.9.4-3-jdkbug-workaround-signed.jar"
[12:00] <lool> It seems it's VNC
[12:00] <lool> From what I saw, there is another home dir of another user which I can't reach (unix perms)
[12:00] <lool> I don't know whether they purge the servers at some point
[12:00] <lool> They use PAM to store some encfs
[12:01] <lool> Hmm I wonder how they auth the VNC
[12:03] <lool> The web page seems to have a login and password and host and port for SSH
[12:04] <pitti> geser: is that scons underquoting problem known upstream?
[12:04] <pitti> and/or in Debian
[12:04] <pitti> ?
[12:19] <geser> pitti: see bug 87077
[12:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 87077 in scons "The build of xmms2 fails because of HASH(0x82db558)="" in the environment" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87077
[12:20] <geser> pitti: it was filed upstream (http://scons.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=1689) and the problem seems to be Ubuntu specific
[12:21] <broonie> Nobody else is going to be defining environment variables with names like that.
[12:21] <geser> pitti: the affected packages by this bug build successfully with the scons from Debian in Debian and inside a pbuilder but not on the Ubuntu buildds
[12:22] <lool> Riddell: It would be more interesting to get a screenshot of the full desktop running
[12:22] <lool> It's quite limitative to only look at OO.o
[12:22] <broonie> The reason the fix is Ubuntu specific is that it just chops out the affected method of spawning child processes which isn't ideal.
[12:23]  * broonie = Debian SCons maintainer and author of that patch
[12:23] <lool> Globally, I find use of ooo is really unconfortable; I have plenty of bandwidth, and it's quite sluggish; I can't copy-paste one way or another; closing ooo makes it display the crash recovery tool next time around; it takes some 30 seconds at least to startup...
[12:23] <Riddell> lool: have you tried the full desktop?
[12:24] <lool> Riddell: I can't; it's reserved to beta testers
[12:24] <pitti> geser: why the heck does someone want to pass an env var HASH(0x82db558)="" ? that looks like a bug in xmms2 itself?
[12:24] <pitti> broonie: ^ (maybe you know)
[12:25] <Riddell> lool: oh, right
[12:25] <broonie> You'd need to ask whoever runs your buildds.
[12:25] <pitti> ah, I see it in the bug, nevermind
[12:25] <broonie> It looks like Python leakage from iterating over an object.
[12:26] <cjwatson> perl, not python
[12:26] <cjwatson> it's an sbuild bug
[12:26] <geser> pitti: it wasn't only xmms2 which is affected by this, but at least two other packages too
[12:27] <cjwatson> I guess in our sbuild modifications
[12:27] <pitti> right, but that should be fixed asap then
[12:27] <cjwatson> infinity: ^-- (reminder)
[12:27] <pitti> carrying such package delta hacks over several releases just for this is ugly
[12:27] <lool> cjwatson: I think I heard about similar HASH() env vars in Debian in the past; I'd suspect it's an old sbuild issue which Debian sbuild doesn't have
[12:27] <lool> (anymore)
[12:27] <cjwatson> quite possibly, yeah
[12:27] <lool> There are so many sbuild forks though
[12:28] <pitti> seb128: mono-addins approved and promoted FYI
[12:34] <Riddell> pitti: did you look at libkarma?  do I need to get more information on it?
[12:42] <pitti> Riddell: I think so; it's in the bug 174306
[12:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 174306 in libkarma "MIR: Please include libkarma in hardy main" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174306
[12:47] <Riddell> thanks
[12:54] <pitti> warp10: hm, this changes nonessential things; is this meant for gutsy-proposed or hardy? (changelog says 'gutsy' which is invalid)
[12:55] <warp10> pitti: sorry, my mistake: it is for hardy
[12:56] <pitti> warp10: ah, ok
[12:56] <warp10> pitti: should I prepare another debdiff or you'll take care of this?
[12:57] <pitti> warp10: don't worry, I can do that simple replace :)
[13:05] <geser> Hobbsee: you should hug pitti for sponsoring scons :)
[13:06] <Hobbsee> pitti: thanks for becomming the maintainer of scons :)
[13:06]  * Hobbsee hugs pitti
[13:06] <Hobbsee> may it give you much joy and colour :)
[13:06] <Riddell> pitti, seb128, Hobbsee: anyone remember rejecting python-kde4?  it doesn't seem to be in new any more and there's no message in ubuntu-archive
[13:06] <pitti> Hobbsee: it doesn't have my name in the changelog, don't worry
[13:06] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i only did the first one, as tonio requested.
[13:07] <Hobbsee> pitti: you still show up on MOM
[13:07] <pitti> Riddell: *scratching head* not really
[13:07] <cjwatson> seb128: could you look at bug 131751, please? It looks like you dropped part of Ian's changes by mistake in the merge
[13:07] <Riddell> Hobbsee: rejected it?
[13:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 131751 in consolekit "Unable to switch Virtual Terminal with C-A-F[1-6] on Intel-based new laptop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131751
[13:07] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes.  when it had not been reviewed - it was meant to go to revu.
[13:08] <soren> cjwatson: Heh.. I was just looking at that, actually.
[13:08] <soren> Why was it again that stracing X didn't work? :-/
[13:08] <Hobbsee> Riddell: that was not the version that you're asking about, though
[13:08] <cjwatson> soren: it works if you strace it from something other than an X terminal emulator
[13:09] <soren> cjwatson: Why does that make a difference?
[13:09] <cjwatson> soren: if you strace it from an X terminal emulator, X deadlocks when strace tries to print the pid
[13:09] <cjwatson> it would probably be OK if you used strace >file 2>&1 rather than strace -o file
[13:09] <soren> ??
[13:10] <cjwatson> Process 30576 attached - interrupt to quit
[13:10] <cjwatson> it's when it tries to print that
[13:10] <cjwatson> AFAIK
[13:10] <soren> That makes no sense to me.
[13:10] <cjwatson> *shrug*
[13:10] <cjwatson> seems to be the case :)
[13:10]  * soren falls over
[13:10] <persia> soren: it's a loop.  strace is the child, so all the strace output generates strace events, etc.
[13:10] <cjwatson> or possibly it's the terminal emulator tries to do something else
[13:10] <soren> That's..
[13:11] <cjwatson> s/tries/trying/
[13:11] <cjwatson> at any rate, stracing while sshed in does fine
[13:11] <soren> persia: So? tcpdumping over an ssh connection works, it just goes wild. It doesn't hang or anything.
[13:11] <persia> soren: Hmm.  True.
[13:11] <seb128> Riddell: I didn't reject it, no
[13:12] <seb128> cjwatson: looking
[13:12]  * soren tries to strace the gnome-terminal that tries to strace X and see what happens
[13:12] <cjwatson> seb128: looks like you kept the patch from Ian's first upload, but not the second
[13:12] <Chipzz> soren: tcpdump -n not port 22? :)
[13:12] <soren> Chipzz: Sure.
[13:13] <seb128> cjwatson: this bug has been opened before my upload
[13:13] <seb128> (reading)
[13:13] <cjwatson> seb128: the thing I'm seeing is definitely due to the busted merge
[13:13] <cjwatson> seb128: it's *possible* that the original bug was actually something else and I wrongly attached my report to that bug
[13:14] <cjwatson> in which case, my apologies, but the problem is still there :)
[13:20] <seb128> cjwatson: hum, the patch he attached on the freedesktop bugzilla is different of the one in the gutsy package and I used the bugzilla one because that was easier that getting .diff.gz changes
[13:20] <seb128> cjwatson: will fix that
[13:21]  * seb128 grrrrrr at people not using a proper patch system for distro changes
[13:21] <soren> It doesn't apply anymore anyway..
[13:21] <seb128> great
[13:21] <soren> Yes, isn't it? :)
[13:23] <seb128> I'm wondering why the bug would be intel specific though
[13:23] <cjwatson> I don't think it is
[13:23] <cjwatson> it may be timing-dependent
[13:24] <cjwatson> somebody mentioned in the bug that it happened to them with nvidia
[13:24] <cjwatson> seb128: thanks for fixing that; please update the freedesktop bugzilla patch if you haven't already
[13:24] <cjwatson> (er, that was obvious I guess)
[13:25] <seb128> cjwatson: you're welcome, I'll update the patch there
[13:25] <soren> Oh, you fixed it already
[13:25] <soren> ?
[13:25] <seb128> soren: no, but I'm looking at it now
[13:25] <seb128> soren: and I'll update the patch once I figured what is the right way to fix it ;-)
[13:25] <soren> seb128: Ah, ok. Got it :)
[13:26] <seb128> soren: if you have an opinion on the topic you are welcome to share it though ;-)
[13:26] <soren> seb128: I still blame policykit.
[13:26] <soren> seb128: Are you aware of how to switch on its debug output?
[13:27] <soren> seb128: "/etc/init.d/policykit reload" toggles debug mode.
[13:27] <soren> I'll pastebin the output from when this happens. Hang on.
[13:28] <seb128> soren: weird, the script has no reload case
[13:28] <soren> Er... I meant consolekit.
[13:29] <seb128> ah, right
[13:29] <seb128> thanks for the hints ;-)
[13:29] <soren> I get confused by all these new kits. :)
[13:29] <soren> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/47946/
[13:31] <Hobbsee> soren: it's part of world domination
[13:39] <cjwatson> tkamppeter_: well done on joining MOTU
[13:40] <soren> seb128: I think I have a pretty good idea about what's wrong.
[13:41] <seb128> soren: you are welcome to debug it then ;-)
[13:41] <seb128> soren: the gutsy version has an extra vt_park_enable which is not in the patch I used for the hardy upload
[13:42] <seb128> +       /* We park only once: enable is set when a session exits
[13:42] <seb128> +        * and cleared here when we choose a new session. */
[13:42] <seb128> +       seat->priv->vt_park_enable = FALSE;
[13:42] <soren> Looking at the debug output, you'll notice ck_seat_set_park_vt apparantly never gets set.
[13:42] <seb128> soren: ^ that's the corresponding change
[13:42] <soren> Er... get called, I mean.
[13:43] <soren> And that seems to be the only place where seat->priv->vt_park_num gets set, and hence it never figures out that it's supposed to stay on vt 1 (or whichever vt you're switching to, obviously).
[13:45]  * soren *really* goes to lunch now.
[13:49] <ogra> asac, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LightBrowser/ i couldnt resist :)
[13:50] <asac> looks like fun ... whats that exactly now?
[13:50] <asac> ogra: ^^
[13:52] <ogra> mybrowser with hqalf way added bookmark support and some prefs stuff, its a fun project, i'll probably poke around more on it during christmas holidays and finish the functions (just a bit playing around with xul during disconnected travelling the last days)
[13:52] <ogra> it was scary to recognize how much of my javascrip skills vanished over the last three years when i touched it last ...
[13:53] <ogra> so a bit practicing isnt bad :) and probably it becomes an app, who knows :)
[13:55] <ogra> its cool that xclrunner just inherits the plugins with just adding a link so its a fullly functional browser without tab support limited to a single window ...
[13:56] <ogra> *xul
[13:56] <ogra> eating only 20% of ram ff needs
[14:02] <asac> cool
[14:02] <asac> ogra: so i can count you in to the set of ubunt devs that can develop xul apps :)
[14:02] <asac> welcome!
[14:02] <ogra> lol
[14:03] <cjwatson> delegation in action
[14:03]  * ogra grins
[14:03] <Hobbsee> or increases in insanity on display, yes..
[14:04] <ogra> xul is fun, its like my old perl cgi/javascript db webapps i wrote back in other jobs :)
[14:04] <ogra> just no perl involved (luckily)
[14:06] <asac> ogra: so you adapted the midbrowser concept to have the toolbar at the bottom? why that?
[14:06] <ion_> sub { $_[0]->("$_[1]!") }->(sub { print "Hello @_" }, "world")
[14:06] <ogra> the mybrowser code had that ...
[14:06] <asac> oh
[14:06] <asac> ok
[14:07] <ogra> i just took what was there and started adding features
[14:07] <asac> ogra: actually, epiphany upstream devs are trying to do that: make a xulapp out of epiphany
[14:07] <ogra> (and modifying the existing stuff)
[14:07] <asac> but i guess it won't be ready for hardy (only the old gtkmozembed thing) ... so maybe help out there ;)
[14:07] <ogra> that should be trivial
[14:08] <ogra> well, i have a lot on my plate already i guess working into the epi code is a bit harder than taking twh 100 LOC from mybrowser and addin another 100 :) but i`ll take a look
[14:08] <asac> ogra: cool ... feel free to add a bzr branch to ~mozillateam :) ... I am looking for xulapps to include in hardy. if the browser becomes usable i am happy to ship it :)
[14:09] <asac> ogra: so what is missing to get a fully functional browser? bookmarks? certificate management?
[14:09] <asac> anything else?
[14:10] <asac> does typeahead find already work?
[14:10] <ogra> i want it to run fullscreen, havent found the right trigger for that yet (and it seems xul isnt ready in that area either yet)
[14:11] <ogra> adding bookmarks and setting the homepage works fine, removing bugmaks is missing
[14:11] <asac> ah :)
[14:11] <ogra> heh
[14:11] <ogra> funny typo
[14:11] <asac> fullscreen should be possible ... i will try to look it up if i need a distracting minute :)
[14:11] <ogra> the font scaling only exists in the ui yet
[14:12] <ogra> not in the embedded browser ... i need to look how its done in ff
[14:12] <ogra> ah, and all typical ff keycombos work :)
[14:13] <asac> ogra: you have to use the FullZoom method on the html document you can get from the browser
[14:13]  * ogra rarely uses the mouse while browsing
[14:13] <asac> (that zooms images as well ... which is what ffox 3 does now)
[14:13] <ogra> ah, nice, thanks for the hint
[14:16] <soren> seb128: Any progress?
[14:16] <seb128> soren: didn't look at it yet, I've it next on the queue for when I'll be done with the gdm merge
[14:17] <soren> seb128: Oh, ok. I'll stop pestering you then :)
[14:17] <seb128> soren: I was not sure if you were on your way to fix it and didn't want to duplicate work too ;-)
[14:18] <soren> seb128: Well... I was hoping that shouting random semi-useful hints here and there might magically fix it. :)
[14:19] <seb128> soren: that's useful informations, thanks, I'll look at it when the gdm update is uploaded
[14:19] <soren> seb128: I've got a stack of stuff, that I'm actually supposed to be looking at, which is not really the case for consolekit. I just got fed up with not having access to my console. :)
[14:19]  * soren hugs seb128 
[14:19]  * seb128 hugs soren back
[14:48] <michael14486> does anyone know of a program to generate .deb files?
[14:48] <seb128> michael14486: debuild
[14:49] <cjwatson> michael14486: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#head-86b3c262f4e4b222c867211cb06bb46523c7cc6f
[14:49] <michael14486> thanks
[14:51] <ppum> hey guys, just wanted to ask when the linux-restricted-modules 2.6.24 will be out ?
[14:53] <cjwatson> ppum: it's been uploaded, just needs to actually build now
[14:53] <chand> ppum: i don't know but there is a problem with amd/nvidia drivers http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/11/1/257
[14:57] <michael14486> is there any way to  graphicaly  make .deb packages (none of the command line ones worked for me)
[14:57] <michael14486> ???????????????/
[14:58]  * ion_ chuckles
[14:58] <cjwatson> michael14486: not to my knowledge; everyone here uses command-line tools for this
[14:58] <cjwatson> michael14486: I would recommend finding a different channel; this channel is for development of Ubuntu itself
[14:58] <bdmurray> dholbach: I plan on testing that some today
[14:59] <cjwatson> we're not really set up for mentoring people who just want to do one-shot packaging
[14:59] <dholbach> bdmurray: ROCK
[14:59] <cjwatson> michael14486: if you're just trying to package something for your own use, checkinstall may help you
[14:59] <michael14486> my programs are al shell scripts that run from bin to accsess the itunes store
[15:01] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: shame on you, recommending checkinstall...
[15:01] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: next you'll be mentioning yada, and other crackful tools.
[15:01] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: I'm not recommending it for packaging software in the Ubuntu archive.
[15:01] <ogra> Hobbsee, why, for personal use thats fine
[15:02] <Hobbsee> ogra: i've seen too much of the "of personal use only.  oh, i think i'llj ust share this ready-made deb"
[15:02] <ogra> you just need to keep track of it to not forget about it at dist upgrades
[15:02] <ogra> since there it myght get tricky
[15:02] <Hobbsee> ogra: or "checkinstall is bad, it does not package a program with a library in it correctly"
[15:03] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: so you have not gone utterly insane.  good :)
[15:03] <ogra> the package description should probably have a warning :)
[15:03] <ogra> (up to a clever MOTU i guess :))
[15:03] <Hobbsee> ogra: now really.  no one is silly enough to do such a thing.  TIL principle.
[15:09] <michael14486> whats so bad about checkinstall and yada?
[15:10] <cjwatson> michael14486: they produce unfortunate results when used for packages in Ubuntu itself. That isn't to say that you can't use checkinstall for local use only.
[15:10] <Chipzz> michael14486: they just package up the contents of a directory, which may not be the correct thing to do
[15:10] <cjwatson> Chipzz: that's what checkinstall does, but not yada. They're very different.
[15:10] <ogra> michael14486, its missing dependencies fro example, so it will only work on the system you compiled on
[15:10] <Chipzz> michael14486: some files are supposed to be generated
[15:10] <cjwatson> yada is deprecated hereabouts because it's just obscure and hard to read
[15:10] <Chipzz> michael14486: like for example the fontconfig caches and gtk icon themes (just to name a few)
[15:11] <cjwatson> at any rate, I think we are confusing michael14486 far more than we are helping him
[15:11] <Chipzz> if you just package these files, they'll overwrite existing files which leads to disaster
[15:11] <cjwatson> michael14486: your best bet is really to read the packaging guides and take it from there
[15:11] <Chipzz> cjwatson: I was only talking about checkinstall anyway ;)
[15:12] <michael14486> so when its installed it will over write the files like bin that it installs to?
[15:13] <Chipzz> michael14486: if the files in your package are mutually exclusive to the files installed on the system, it may not be that bad (though it's still inappropriate)
[15:14] <michael14486> and will the packaging guides work with scripts and no programs (thats what i use because i dont know enough c to really do anything)
[15:14] <cjwatson> packaging shell scripts is strictly simpler than packaging C programs
[15:15] <cjwatson> but this is not appropriate for this channel
[15:15] <cjwatson> I suggest #ubuntu-motu
[15:15] <Chipzz> michael14486: the gist of it is, a lot of files are actually meant to be generated in the system in which they're supposed to work; if you make a package with checkinstall, it just (temoporarily) installs into a seperate dir and packages that. that temporary dir is distinct from (and often conflicting with) the system the package is supposed to be installed in
[15:16] <geser> doko: as curl (main) depwaits now on libssh2-1-dev (universe) is it ok to drop that build-dependency?
[15:16] <Chipzz> and I'll shut up now :)
[15:17] <doko> geser: hmm, I think I have to ask cjwatson and pitti again about main inclusion
[15:17] <pitti> geser: personally I'd prefer dropping it, yes; what actual benefit does it give us? ssh isn't even enabled for the gnutls build
[15:18] <ogra> pitti, any opinion about devscripts and the added dep while youre at giving recommendations for MIRs ? :)
[15:18] <pitti> openssh is a mature project, and people still find holes in it occasionally; libssh2 gets much less attention and is much younger
[15:19] <pitti> ogra: that perl lib? that sounded harmless enough, but I need to read your mail again
[15:19] <ogra> it is harmless i think but since we try to reduce main stuff its also something we dont use at all
[15:19] <geser> pitti: as curl builds without this build-dependency, I'll prepare a debdiff
[15:20] <pitti> ogra: so, if we have a diff anyway, we can leave it out; if dropping the build dep would be our only delta, it's easier to promote such trivial libs
[15:20] <pitti> erm, s/dropping//
[15:24] <ogra> pitti, well, there is one extra build dep diff (we add lsb-release), i'll drop it then
[15:25] <ogra> still enough time for complaints and switching it :)
[15:30] <geser> pitti: bug #175891 if you have time
[15:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175891 in curl "[hardy] Drop libssh2-1-dev from Build-Depends" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175891
[15:30] <geser> any other main sponsor is also welcome
[15:42] <Hobbsee> someone broke amd64 quite badly, it appears.
[15:42] <pitti> Hobbsee: ?
[15:43] <Hobbsee> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/hardy_probs.html
[15:44] <pitti> ah, probably seb's fault :)
[15:44] <Hobbsee> yeah, blame seb128 todya.
[15:44] <seb128> gni?
[15:44] <pitti> no, just a gtk+2.0 buildd desync, I guess
[15:44] <seb128> pitti: right, looks like
[15:44] <pitti> libgtk2.0-0 is held back on a dist-upgrade
[15:45] <pitti> ah, it FTBFSed on i386, built on amd64
[15:45] <Hobbsee> oookay?
[15:46] <pitti> hm, now it's needsbuild
[15:46] <pitti> seems someone just gave it back?
[15:46]  * Hobbsee did not.
[15:46] <seb128> pitti: needs a retry
[15:47] <Hobbsee> sparc is needsbuild, not other arches
[15:47] <seb128> pitti: apparently slomo changed it to require the new directfb but didn't update the Build-Depends requirement
[15:47] <pitti> ah, my fault; I looked at the wrong tab
[15:47]  * pitti gives back
[15:47]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[15:47] <pitti> argh, buildd.py fails on + in package names
[15:47]  * pitti fixes that first
[15:47] <Hobbsee> i thought you fixed that.
[15:48] <pitti> in versions, not package names
[15:48] <Hobbsee> i then thought you fixed package names as well
[15:48] <pitti> no
[15:51] <pitti> script fixed, gtk retried
[15:52] <pitti> script on people.u.c. updated <- Hobbsee
[15:52] <Hobbsee> pitti: thanks muchly
[16:08] <calc> cjwatson: ping, meeting
[16:09] <mantiena-baltix> hi all
[16:12] <mantiena-baltix> pitti: hi, maybe you can tell me where are daily language packs now ? I tried to search and didn't found any official info where I should look for daily language packs, so, maybe you can tell me ?
[16:12] <pitti> mantiena-baltix: I announced that a while ago; they are in the ~ubuntu-langpack PPA
[16:12] <mantiena-baltix> I found repository http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-langpack/ubuntu/ , but I'm not sure if this is official daily language-packs repo
[16:12] <pitti> http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-langpack/
[16:12] <pitti> yes, that's it
[16:12] <pitti> gotta run now, sorry
[16:13] <mantiena-baltix> pitti: ok, thank you
[16:30] <Keybuk> soren: have you been brave enough to look at the mdadm merge?
[16:32] <Keybuk> (if not, I had a brief look and actually think it's not that scary -- so am happy to claim it back off you and do it tonight)
[16:36] <michael14486> if i sent someone my files would they make them into a deb packedge
[16:36] <michael14486> ?????????????????????
[16:36] <swisgard> thats not how it works
[16:37] <swisgard> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
[16:37] <swisgard> look at the "request a new package"
[16:37] <michael14486> thanks ill try that
[16:41] <claviola> I realize this is not a support channel, but #ubuntu hasn't been able to help in this regard.  I have a box in which the install CD dumps one into GDM instead of just launching a session automatically.  Is there a reason this might happen?  Does the standard 'ubuntu' user from the live cd have a password?
[16:42] <cjwatson> claviola: I don't know of a reason why that would happen on the desktop (live) CD; the 'ubuntu' user has a blank password
[16:42] <Spads> claviola: what image did you use?
[16:44] <claviola> Spads: it's the one one orders from shipit
[16:44] <cjwatson> that would be the desktop CD
[16:44] <cjwatson> might be worth checking /var/log/casper.log to see if something broke in the boot process
[16:50] <soren> Keybuk: No, I never got round to it, so if you could do it, that would be lovely.
[16:52] <claviola> Yeah, I'm almost sure it's somehow to do with the CD drive, somehow, since this friend who's trying to boot also reported 'errors with something called squashfs'.
[16:53] <claviola> cjwatson: how can you force a console login to check the log?
[16:53] <Keybuk> soren: ack
[16:56] <seb128> cjwatson, soren: consolekit with updated patch uploaded, it fixes the issue on my laptop, let me know if that works for you when the update is available
[16:58] <soren> seb128: Will do. Thanks!
[16:58] <seb128> no problem ;-)
[17:11] <cjwatson> claviola: IIRC you can put 'textonly' on the kernel command line
[17:12] <cjwatson> claviola: if this is 7.10, though (rather than hardy where it was broken for a bit, see seb128's consolekit comment above), shouldn't ctrl-alt-f1 work? the ubuntu user should be autologgedin there
[17:13] <claviola> I vaguely remember something that looked like a PAM error
[17:13] <cjwatson> claviola: if squashfs was bust, you may be just hosed as far as software efforts are concerned; my first recommendation would be to get a CD cleaning kit and apply it to the drive
[17:13] <cjwatson> it was very likely an I/O error
[17:13] <claviola> I asked him to not bother me again unless the verification tool says the CD seems okay. :-)
[17:15] <cjwatson> claviola: unfortunately the verification tool is not a 100% indicator :-/
[17:15] <claviola> damnit
[17:15] <cjwatson> (I'm not sure why, I only have anecdotal reports)
[17:15] <cjwatson> though I agree it is a good initial check
[18:00] <beuno> hello, any archive sysadmin around?   ar.archive.ubuntu.com has been bisbehaving _seriously_ the past few days
[18:00] <beuno> (seems a new mirror has been added)
[18:00] <beuno> we're getting may user reports with 404s
[18:07] <slomo> seb128: it will also work with the old version
[18:07] <slomo> seb128: in theory at least, if it doesn't => give me the compiler error
[18:08] <seb128> slomo: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10857402/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.gtk%2B2.0_2.12.3-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[18:08] <slomo> seb128: thanks, will fix
[18:08] <seb128> slomo: you are welcome
[18:08] <seb128> slomo: thank you for working on the issue ;-)
[18:08] <slomo> seb128: not now but in a few minutes or early tomorrow :)
[18:09] <seb128> slomo: no hurry, the retry picked the new directfb version and built correctly
[19:26] <cjwatson> beuno: perhaps best to mail mirrors@ubuntu.com
[19:26] <beuno> cjwatson, will do, thanks  :D
[19:26] <beuno> (wasn't sure where else to ask)
[19:27] <cjwatson> there's also #canonical-sysadmin (IIRC)
[19:28] <beuno> ah, yes, sounds familiar, let's give that a try too
[19:28] <beuno> thanks x 2 cjwatson
[19:34] <johanbr> beuno: and #ubuntu-mirrors
[19:34] <beuno> johanbr, aaaaah, sounds much more accurate
[19:35] <beuno> johanbr, got it, thanks  :D
[19:50] <lool> keescook: I was happy with the terminus font on xterms for a while; nowadays I'm happy with DejaVu Sans Mono in xft mode, but it took some time
[20:31] <keescook> lool: yeah, I tried terminus.  I seem to have found a great solution though: creating an alias for my preferred bitmap font.  :)
[21:16] <jcastro> TheMuso: hi, you're listed as one of the leaders of the accessability team, do you guys have a team reporter person?
[21:17] <TheMuso> jcastro: There is not much of a team atm, so there are no reports forthcoming till we've tidied up the wiki, and got thins sorted, we being me.
[21:18] <jcastro> ok, so it's safe to assume no report this month then?
[21:18] <jcastro> I'm just trying to clean up the contacts for each team
[21:18] <TheMuso> jcastro: No report this month, and not likely for a while.
[21:18] <jcastro> noted, thanks!
[21:18] <ScottK> jcastro: Why don't you write up a nice generic "Getting the team established" input.  You can do it without actually knowing anything about what's going on.
[21:19] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
[21:19] <jcastro> you mean like that?
[21:20] <ScottK> jcastro: Dunno (I've ignored the reporting stuff) just thought it'd be useful to include his 'team' on the list so people keep it in mind.
[21:20] <jcastro> yes, that's what I'm doing now
[21:20] <ScottK> OK.  Sounds like you're ahead of me then.
[21:36] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[21:40] <pitti> calc: is there a MIR for lzma?
[21:43] <calc> pitti: yes
[21:43] <calc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLzma
[22:00] <pitti> calc: ah, great; can you please add the link to the bug? I'll have a look at it tomorrow
[22:03] <infinity> pitti: I'm not sure who to thank, but as my oldest partner in crime for ReducingDuplication, I'm happy to announce that the buildd chroots have gone down from 4 (!) libdb versions to just 1.
[22:03] <pitti> infinity: ooh, cool
[22:04] <calc> pitti: ok
[22:17] <calc> dendrobates: sure go head :)
[22:17] <dendrobates> calc: thanks.
[22:20] <Kmos> infinity: check sejon buildd machine.. Not available because:
[22:20] <Kmos> Builder returned BUILDERFAIL when asked for its status
[22:26] <infinity> Kmos: I'll poke it in a sec, thanks.
[22:27] <Kmos> :)
[22:40] <infinity> Kmos: Fixed, thanks.
[22:51] <Keybuk> keescook: you were doing the procps merge, right?
[22:51] <keescook> Keybuk: yeah, it's ready to go -- I've been waiting for the linux-meta bump so people don't freak about about the new sys entry
[22:51] <keescook> (it's only in the new kernel)
[22:52] <keescook> but if you want me to, I can shove it in now
[22:52] <Keybuk> nothing to do with me
[22:52]  * Keybuk points at slangasek
[22:52] <Keybuk> he's the merge-freeze-meister
[22:53] <keescook> well, I guess I better just upload it since today is the end-of-easy-merges
[22:53] <keescook> it doesn't actually break anything, it'll just frighten people who watch their init scripts 'ZOMG FAIL!' (when it doesn't actually)
[22:54] <Keybuk> "it's not a merge, it's a new upstream version"
[23:01] <tormod> keescook, hi that gthumb debdiff I asked you to look at also fixes a autopkgtest failure. maybe it's good to get in before rebuild tests start.
[23:04]  * LaserJock gives Keybuk a hug
[23:04] <keescook> tormod: sorry, been behind in email -- still hunting upstream libcairo breakage.  :(
[23:04] <Keybuk> ooh, huggage
[23:05] <LaserJock> Keybuk: you have -motu in collective jaw-drop followed by "wow!" ;-)
[23:06] <_MMA_> LaserJock: Have you seen Emmets reply? :)
[23:06] <LaserJock> yes
[23:06] <Fujitsu> Keybuk: What did you mean by `most of the other technical teams'? ubuntu-dev will be a member of most unsupported seed teams?
[23:07] <_MMA_> LaserJock: The latter point I think is very good.
[23:07] <Keybuk> err, I think that's what I meant
[23:08]  * persia read it the other way, but would be happy to be mistaken
[23:10] <Burgundavia> LaserJock: link to this email?
[23:11] <LaserJock> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-December/024854.html
[23:11] <Keybuk> what's the other way?
[23:11]  * Fujitsu is wondering that too.
[23:12] <persia> Keybuk: That those who were members of ~ubuntu-dev, and not explicitly members of other teams would only have upload rights to unseeded software.
[23:13] <Keybuk> you'd need to be a member of a technical team, or ubuntu-dev or ubuntu-core-dev to upload software
[23:13] <Burgundavia> Keybuk: would that also mean a merge of Restriced and Multiverse?
[23:13] <Keybuk> s/ubuntu-dev/motu/ for the effect
[23:14] <TheMuso> Burgundavia: yes afaiu
[23:14] <Keybuk> since they're roughly equivalent teams, and I may have got them the wrong way round
[23:14] <Fujitsu> ubuntu-dev is the aggregate of motu and ubuntu-core-dev.
[23:15] <LaserJock> Keybuk: right, persia's argument, I think, was that as the number of technical team's becomes large the number of packages for "motu" becomes very small
[23:16] <Keybuk> LaserJock: which is why it should be members of them too
[23:16] <LaserJock> right, I think that's where the confusion was
[23:16] <Fujitsu> That's what I thought.
[23:16] <Fujitsu> Thanks for clarifying.
[23:19] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: this would make multiverse binary-only software
[23:19] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: That's what most of restricted is.
[23:19] <Burgundavia> basically, take all the evil patentwise/dmcawise stuff and put it into restricted and leave the binary only stuff in multiverse
[23:19] <Fujitsu> I would have thought it would be the other way around.
[23:19] <Fujitsu> As restricted is meant to be safe, no?
[23:20] <Burgundavia> no restricted is stuff that is "needed"
[23:20] <Burgundavia> ati/nvidia drivers
[23:21] <Fujitsu> Can't I install and use stuff from restricted, safe in the knowledge that I won't be chased by patent owners, wherever I am?
[23:21] <persia> Keybuk: Thanks for the clarification: You've knocked down points 1 & 3 of my rebuttal.  Only one to go :)
[23:21] <Fujitsu> Whereas we have patent-encumbered things in multiverse...
[23:22] <Fujitsu> Don't we?
[23:22] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: afaik we do yes
[23:22] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: yes, plugins-bad-mutiverse and plugins-ugly-multiverse
[23:22] <LaserJock> perhaps Multiverse/Restricted is a useful split still
[23:22]  * persia notes there is also a fair bit of purpose-restricted software in multiverse (non-commercial, non-military)
[23:23] <Fujitsu> persia: Right.
[23:23] <Fujitsu> restricted and multiverse do have distinctions other than `support'
[23:23] <Fujitsu> main and universe do not.
[23:23] <persia> Since multiverse is enabled by default, I don't think restricted/multiverse makes sense as it is today.  On the other hand, there is an argument for a different split based on patents / purposes / etc.
[23:23] <Burgundavia> Fujitsu: not really
[23:23] <Fujitsu> multiverse isn't enabled by default, is it?
[23:24] <Burgundavia> restricted is merely the small subset of multiverse stuff that Canonical supports
[23:24] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I believe it is but could be totally wrong
[23:24] <Fujitsu> Burgundavia: There are no patent/licensing issues in restricted, other than not being modifiable.
[23:25] <Burgundavia> most of mutliverse is the same boat
[23:25] <persia> Fujitsu: It is :(
[23:25] <Fujitsu> persia: Eww.
[23:25] <LaserJock> I thought there was also some restriction that Restricted was only drivers/firmware whereas Multiverse was anything
[23:25] <Burgundavia> things like adobe reader, flash, etc.
[23:25] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: It also has some MySQL documentation, IIRC.
[23:25] <LaserJock> fine then ;-)
[23:25] <Fujitsu> Adobe Reader is long gone.
[23:26] <Fujitsu> And I don't think most of it is just unmodfiable
[23:26] <persia> Burgundavia: There's heaps & heaps of stuff in multiverse that's either non-modifiable, non-commercial, or non-military, but otherwise sane (and has source).
[23:26] <Fujitsu> *unmodifiable
[23:26] <persia> Fujitsu: djb* (although new stuff should be going to universe for the next upload) is one example
[23:27] <Fujitsu> That's some of it.
[23:27] <Burgundavia> persia: yes, hence why some sort of sane distinction should be hammered out
[23:27] <persia> I think the majority of multiverse is non-commercial, but that might just be the packages I tend to touch.
[23:27] <persia> Burgundavia: Sure, but I think that is orthoganal to the restricted/multiverse question.
[23:28] <persia> /gan/gon/
[23:28] <LaserJock> I thought a lot of it was just "not quite DFSG free"
[23:28] <Fujitsu> persia: The non-commercialism is my feeling too.
[23:28] <persia> LaserJock: Some is even just "depends on something else in multiverse"
[23:29] <LaserJock> very true
[23:29] <LaserJock> so we could have just a " \o/ " pile and a "ewww" pile ;-)
[23:31] <mjg59`> Trying to split multiverse into different sections based on whether there are patent issues or not would be a bad idea
[23:31] <Burgundavia> we should have a clear set of criteria. ie: non-commercial --> restricted or patent issues --> multiverse
[23:32] <Burgundavia> so if somebody wants to add a package, they could see what category it falls under and upload to the correct repo
[23:32] <Fujitsu> Non-commercial shouldn't be going into restricted, as it's a restriction on use.
[23:32] <Fujitsu> But having a proper split would be a very good idea.
[23:32] <mjg59`> Burgundavia: No.
[23:32] <persia> Burgundavia: PLease use alternate nomenclature to avoid confusion (even "foo" and "bar" would be preferable)
[23:33] <mjg59`> Burgundavia: Firstly, we are in no position to accurately judge whether something is covered by enforced patents in most cases. Pretending that we're doing so would be giving false comfort to users.
[23:33] <mjg59`> Burgundavia: Secondly, it potentially leaves us open to wilful infringement charges
[23:34] <Burgundavia> mjg59`: right, the second was an example
[23:34] <Burgundavia> persia: again, the basic idea of a checklist is what I am really arguing for, not the names or the specific naming of the repos, etc.
[23:35] <mjg59`> In any case, depending on what you mean by "use" there's plenty of stuff in restricted that has limitations on use
[23:37] <Burgundavia> right, multiverse is a whole pile of mostly really nasty issues
[23:37] <mjg59`> There's no point in trying to make sense of it. Restricted is "Evil but necessary", multiverse is everything else.
[23:57] <holo> hello
[23:58] <holo> let me just say that amd wine package is broken
[23:58] <holo> amd64 i mean
[23:58] <holo> it is extremely broken, not to say more
[23:58] <holo>  /usr/lib32/wine/*
[23:58] <LaserJock> holo: bugs.ubuntu.com is a good place to tell us about that
[23:59] <holo> ok, i will
[23:59] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: bugs.ubuntu.com?