[00:00] <LaserJock> Lutin: I don't know much PHP either, but you should be able to kinda of copy the LP link code
[00:00] <LaserJock> hmm, although you will need the first letter of the package name
[00:01] <Lutin> LaserJock: and even worse, the first four if it starts with 'lib'
[00:01] <LaserJock> yeah
[00:01] <Lutin> definitely too hard for me :p. going to bed. I'll ask Adri2000 tomorrow
[00:01] <LaserJock> k
[00:01] <LaserJock> no biggie
[00:01] <Lutin> k :)
[00:01] <LaserJock> it's just one of my pet peeves with MoM
[00:18] <johnny_> hi folks
[00:18] <johnny_> how can i tell what file was actually used to install a package
[00:18] <johnny_> like.. say i installed it from a deb
[00:18] <johnny_> via dpkg -i
[00:18] <johnny_> for testing
[00:21] <Ubulette> johnny_, you want to find the deb name given a file name ?
[00:21] <Ubulette> or what?
[00:21] <johnny_> i installed a deb and i want to some proof that it got used
[00:22] <Ubulette> dpkg -l packagename
[00:22] <Ubulette> it will show you the installed version
[00:22] <johnny_> it's the same version
[00:23] <Ubulette> not what you expected ?
[00:23] <johnny_> well i built the package with the same version
[00:23] <johnny_> because i didn't know any better perhaps
[00:23] <Ubulette> oh, then it's difficult to verify
[00:24] <LaserJock> johnny_: would looking at the contents of your .deb help?
[00:25] <johnny_> what i wanted was a way to say that /root/ldm2_5.0.39.deb was used to install vs the ubuntu one
[00:25] <LaserJock> johnny_: well, if you dpkg -i it and it installs then it worked
[00:25] <TheMuso> You could do md5sum checking.
[00:26] <LaserJock> johnny_: and you don't need to package as root
[00:26] <LaserJock> johnny_: what are you patching in ldm?
[00:26] <LaserJock> auto-login stuff?
[00:28] <johnny_> i didn't package as root
[00:28] <johnny_> i just put it in the i386 chroot
[00:28] <johnny_> so i could install it
[00:28] <johnny_> ok..
[00:28] <johnny_> there we go
[00:29] <johnny_> yes.. LaserJock you know .. cuz you're in that other channel :)
[00:29] <johnny_> aha.. i figured it out
[00:29] <johnny_> to prove to myself
[00:29] <johnny_> i added some .... to one of the installed shell scripts and they appear
[00:30] <johnny_> since i obviously couldn't look at the source
[00:31] <johnny_> since i'm installing a binary
[00:31] <johnny_> i come from the gentoo world.. so all the requirements to build packages is kinda confusing to me
[00:31] <johnny_> i can built gentoo packages very easily
[00:32] <johnny_> we use ubuntu at our coffeeshop, so i've had to learn a lot more of deb stuff
[00:32] <LaserJock> good for you :-)
[00:33] <LaserJock> johnny_: I haven't been tracking the auto-login stuff much, would your package be generally useful?
[00:34] <johnny_> not really
[00:34] <johnny_> ogra has told me that the patch much be simpler
[00:34] <johnny_> and if it is, it will be packages for inclusion
[00:34] <johnny_> packaged*
[00:34] <johnny_> francis already has one
[00:34] <LaserJock> ok
[00:35] <johnny_> but the debs for the thin client are wrong
[00:35] <johnny_> err deps
[00:35] <johnny_> it wants a version of pango that isn't in the thin client
[00:35] <johnny_> it might be related to post gutsy changes
[00:35] <johnny_> where the thin clients are supposed to have a newer version of pango
[00:36] <johnny_> my system pango is one version higher than in the chroot
[00:36] <LaserJock> ah
[00:37] <johnny_> so i might just bug francis to fix up his packages and make the actual patch smaller
[00:37] <johnny_> i just need something working, and an excuse to figure out packaging
[00:37] <johnny_> our entire business is almost completely based off open source stuff
[00:37] <johnny_> and using ubuntu
[00:38] <johnny_> we do have a few macs involved for illustrator and photoshop purposes
[00:38] <johnny_> but otherwise.. we even use gnucash for finance
[00:38] <LaserJock> cool
[00:38] <johnny_> we're a non profit store for the most part
[00:38] <johnny_> it's pretty great env we're setting up now
[00:50] <LaserJock> darn, axiom died
[01:17] <Laney> window level all
[01:18] <Laney> oops :(
[01:18] <alvinc> ;)
[01:56] <blueyed> sudo has changed in Hardy so it does not forward env?? e.g. "FOO=1 sudo su -c 'echo $FOO'" does not work anymore.
[01:56] <blueyed> I guess that's the reason my .pbuilderrc breaks for DIST=xxx
[01:58] <blueyed> See this recipe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#head-1be378ab60d3bab23eefabce49cf7df927d46f81
[01:59] <slangasek> blueyed: yes, according to the changelog this was done in version 1.6.9p6-1ubuntu1; the Ubuntu sudo package's behavior is now consistent with the defaults upstream and in Debian
[02:00] <blueyed> slangasek: so it would make sense maybe to change the "sudo pbuilder" call to "sudo -E pbuilder"?
[02:01] <slangasek> that appears to be correct
[02:04] <blueyed> PBUILDERROOTCMD="sudo -E" - should it be the default?
[02:04] <bddebian> Heya gang
[02:04] <blueyed> Hi bddebian
[02:04] <bddebian> Hello blueyed
[02:09] <blueyed> bug 175776
[02:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175776 in pbuilder "PBUILDERROOTCMD should default to "sudo -E"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175776
[02:09] <blueyed> Good night.
[02:10] <bddebian> Gnight
[02:12] <bddebian> Heya persia
[02:12] <persia> heya bddebian
[02:13] <Ubulette> persia, hi
[02:13] <Ubulette> http://stompbox.typepad.com/blog/2007/12/prism-is-neat.html
[02:13] <Ubulette> 1st fan
[02:13] <persia> Ubulette: :)
[02:53] <bddebian> persia: Do you have an unstable machine?
[02:53] <LaserJock> heh
[02:53] <persia> bddebian: Yes, but only a chroot for sid.
[02:54] <bddebian> persia: Do you have problems with libsdl1.2-dev atm?
[02:54] <bddebian> Heya LaserJock
[02:55] <persia> bddebian: No, but I'm guessing you're encountering audio issues related to competition between libsdl-1.2debian-alsa and libsdl-1.2debian-pulseaudio
[02:55] <persia> (or, not competition between the libraries, but between the audio outputs)
[02:55] <bddebian> persia: No, I can't even install libsdl1.2-dev
[02:56] <persia> bddebian: Odd.  I'll take a look...
[02:56] <bddebian> In my sid pbuilder
[02:56] <LaserJock> I've got the weirdest problem with axiom
[02:56] <LaserJock> it looks like we can sync it
[02:56] <LaserJock> but it FTBFS in my hardy pbuilder
[02:57] <LaserJock> I can't figure out why it would do that
[02:58] <bddebian> What's the error?
[02:58] <LaserJock> here's the relevant section of the build log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2655/
[02:59] <LaserJock> I checked to make sure it built on the Debian buildds and it did
[03:00] <bddebian> Whacky
[03:00] <LaserJock> yeah
[03:00] <LaserJock> I tried on two different machines
[03:01] <LaserJock> I'll try it with my sid pbuilder, but the thing takes a long time to build
[03:01] <persia> bddebian: Debian Bug #455490
[03:01] <ubotu> Debian bug 455490 in libsdl1.2 "libsdl1.2: Uninstallable due to dependency on libdirectfb-0.9-25" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/455490
[03:01] <bddebian> Does configure miss anything?  Maybe debian pulls in a build-dep that we dont?
[03:01] <bddebian> persia: Grr, thx.  I checked the bts but I obviously missed it
[03:02] <LaserJock> bddebian: yeah, I'll try that. It's weird though cause it's not an error I'd expect if it worked in Debian
[03:02] <LaserJock> it seems to be failing on cp not on actual building
[03:03] <persia> LaserJock: Is this a repeatable error?
[03:03] <LaserJock> persia: I built it on two different machines
[03:03]  * persia finds the answer in backscroll, and withdraws the question
[03:03]  * persia is, as usual, slow
[03:03] <LaserJock> although I think I may have scp'd the base.tgz to the other machine
[03:03] <LaserJock> so the pbuilders are "related"
[03:04] <persia> LaserJock: This is building sid source against hardy?
[03:04] <bddebian> Is axiom one of those that takes forever to build?
[03:04] <LaserJock> bddebian: yep, 40MB source and builds latex and emacs stuff
[03:04] <LaserJock> persia: yep
[03:05]  * persia tries with a different build syste
[03:05] <persia> m
[03:05] <LaserJock> I'm pretty sure this is a sync
[03:07]  * bddebian tries a "quick" build :-)
[03:18] <bddebian> persia: boswars should be coming to Debian *soon*
[03:18] <persia> bddebian: Just waiting on libsdl1.2-dev :)
[03:18] <bddebian> Heh, no shit :)
[03:20] <LaserJock> dang, I still have 10min left of downloading deps before I even get to start compiling axiom
[03:21] <joejaxx> LaserJock: lol :P
[03:21] <Hobbsee> local mirror FTW!
[03:21] <joejaxx> Hobbsee: :D
[03:22] <Hobbsee> heya!
[03:23] <joejaxx> well i am going to retire for the evening
[03:23] <joejaxx> Goodnight All
[03:23] <bddebian> Gnight joejaxx
[03:24] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: yeah, but I can't mirror everything
[03:25] <Hobbsee> who said anything about who's mirror it was?
[03:25] <imbrando1> LaserJock: get UNR to put up a mirror :)
[03:26] <LaserJock> imbrando1: I should, but they don't seem to be very Linux friendly from what I've heard
[03:27] <LaserJock> I should ask though, maybe they do have a mirror and I don't know about it :-)
[03:28] <bddebian> heh
[03:30] <bddebian> LaserJock: I get the same error
[03:31] <LaserJock> bah
[03:31] <LaserJock> well at least my pbuilder isn't borken
[03:40]  * somerville32 is downgrading his internet connection :(
[03:40] <LaserJock> downgrading?
[03:40] <LaserJock> as in slower?
[03:41] <somerville32> Yea
[03:41] <somerville32> 7Mbs Down/256Kbs Up -> 1Mbs Down/128Kbs Up
[03:42] <RAOF> What sort of crazy world gives you 128 kbps up?
[03:42] <somerville32> Is 128kps up that bad? :S
[03:43] <LaserJock> I have 1.5 down/5** down I think
[03:43] <LaserJock> bah 5** up
[03:44] <LaserJock> either that or 3** up
[03:44] <RAOF> I think mine's 786 up.
[03:44] <LaserJock> I can't remember
[03:44] <somerville32> The next step up is 8 up and 1mb down
[03:44]  * TheMuso has 1.5 down, and 256 up.
[03:45] <somerville32> I'm downgrading to save money after they lied to me about a promotion
[03:45] <somerville32> Sadly, they don't have a good intermediate package so now I'm moving to "Light" at the end of the month
[03:45] <LaserJock> I just get the cheapest DSL I can find
[03:46] <somerville32> I should have stuck with the express
[03:46] <somerville32> It is only like $10 more anyhow :/
[03:46]  * RAOF got the ~$50/month adsl2+
[03:46] <somerville32> Mine is cable
[03:47] <persia> LaserJock: I get a different error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/2656/
[03:47] <RAOF> Heh, 22mbit down, 1mbit up. :)
[03:47]  * victor_ got the 150$/month 4 MBit/s down 384 kbit/s up.
[03:48] <somerville32> : O
[03:48] <LaserJock> persia: hmm :(
[03:48] <RAOF> Wow.  Somewhere worse than .au :)
[03:48] <LaserJock> bddebian: so you got the same as me?
[03:48] <bddebian> LaserJock: yessir
[03:48] <persia> Bah.  .us & .au (& .nz & .ca) need to upgrade the common infrastructure.
[03:49] <victor_> 4 MBit/s is enough to stream tv/movies
[03:49] <LaserJock> persia: that was -10?
[03:49] <somerville32> Omg, I feel so stupid. I shouldn't have downgraded :/
[03:49] <LaserJock> somerville32: why?
[03:50]  * imbrando1 has 6M/384K
[03:50] <persia> LaserJock: axiom_20050901-10.dsc
[03:50] <somerville32> I just calculated it, and it is only like $10 difference
[03:50]  * LaserJock stabs a straw into imbrando1's computer
[03:50] <ajmitch> not bad, mine's only about 6M/800K
[03:50] <LaserJock> persia: well that's weird
[03:50] <ajmitch> (or thereabouts)
[03:50] <imbrando1> persia: common infra? isnt that against what the internet is about, diveristy hehe
[03:51] <victor_> who has ever said that it's about diversity? that's only what 4chan wants you to believe! :)
[03:51] <imbrando1> somerville32: so call them back
[03:51] <imbrando1> :)
[03:51] <persia> imbrando1: Maybe, but those are all tiny bandwidth numbers.  Ethernet is preferable.
[03:51] <somerville32> imbrando1, It sounds like it was painful for them to switch it over and credit me crap when I did it :P
[03:52] <somerville32> imbrando1, I might make them upset if I call back tomorrow and say "I changed my mind, sorry" :P
[03:52] <imbrando1> somerville32: thats why you pay then its their job :)
[03:52] <somerville32> I guess I'll wait and see if I even notice that big of a difference
[03:52] <somerville32> It is unbearable, I'll call them back
[03:53] <imbrando1> you'll feel like your on isdn :)
[03:53] <somerville32> hehe
[03:53] <somerville32> I never did isdn
[03:53] <LaserJock> me neither
[03:54] <somerville32> I could always go to ultra lite - $20 a month, 64kbs up and down
[03:54] <somerville32> lol
[03:54] <imbrando1> heh i had 2400, then 14.4 then 33.6 then 56.x and then bonded 56k then isdn then cable now dsl
[03:54] <LaserJock> my parents have 28.8
[03:54] <LaserJock> it's sooooo painful
[03:55] <somerville32> If I can use POP3 or IMAP, which should I pick?
[03:55] <imbrando1> i skipped that one hehe, its not even good nuff to check modern mail
[03:55] <imbrando1> somerville32: imap IMHO if you have enough storage server side
[03:55] <somerville32> imbrando1, google :P
[03:55] <imbrando1> imap
[03:56] <imbrando1> i love thier imap
[03:56] <imbrando1> or use prism-google-gmail :) hehe /joke
[03:56] <imbrando1> there is no gears support yet
[03:57]  * TheMuso waits for the day when debmirror syncs those important pieces of the archive, such as indices, and installer-$ARCH files.
[03:57] <TheMuso> Until then, I have my script. :p
[03:57] <imbrando1> TheMuso: i can hack that into apt-mirror pretty simply
[03:58] <TheMuso> imbrando1: apt-mirror doesn't suit my needs.
[03:58] <imbrando1> ok, kinda dumbfounded on that one , but okies
[03:59] <TheMuso> imbrando1: However, if it did support that stuff, I would re-consider it. I probably didn't give it enough of a look for what I needed to do
[04:00] <imbrando1> TheMuso: i'd be intrested in hearing your use case , i'm not doubtign it, but i have failed to see a case where apt-mirror doesnt do what debmirror does and more+better
[04:00] <imbrando1> doubting*
[04:01] <TheMuso> imbrando1: Well, to build disks, you need the indices files, as well as the dists/$dist/main/installer-$ARCH files.
[04:01] <imbrando1> right but neither does debmirror, i ment more of your first statement
[04:01] <TheMuso> And dists/$dist/$section/debian-installer files.
[04:01] <TheMuso> imbrando1: Yeah I know debmirror doesn't, which is why I've scripted it for now.
[04:01] <saivann> The virtual package libgoffice-0-dev doesn't work anymore since libgoffice version has been updated to 0.5.3-1ubuntu1, can someone here fix this?
[04:01] <saivann> this is in Hardy
[04:02] <TheMuso> But debmirror allows the use of rsync.
[04:02] <TheMuso> Afaik apt-mirror doesn't.
[04:02]  * persia declares perl superior to ruby for parsing multimegabyte XML files
[04:02] <RAOF> !doesntwork > saivann
[04:02] <imbrando1> ahh no it doesnt TheMuso
[04:02] <TheMuso> imbrando1: And my local mirror offers rsync, so I'm using it.
[04:02] <imbrando1> it would be tricial to add though
[04:03] <TheMuso> Yeah likely enough.
[04:03] <imbrando1> trivial*
[04:03] <imbrando1> persia: ?
[04:04] <saivann> Sorry, I mean that the virtual libgoffice-0-dev package doesn't point to latest libgoffice version in hardy
[04:04] <persia> imbrando1: for the same input, and the same processing library, a one-line perl script does XML -> YAML in ~800MB of working space vs. ~4GB for a one line ruby script.
[04:04] <somerville32> 12.7K e-mails since I opened my gmail account, hehe :/
[04:04] <imbrando1> persia: yea, i ment more what it pertained to hehe
[04:05] <imbrando1> somerville32: nice you have about ~50% of what i do :)
[04:05] <persia> imbrando1: My suddenly not having my IRC client swapping out :)
[04:05] <imbrando1> hehe
[04:05] <imbrandon> ahh better
[04:05] <tritium> Anybody have a (modern) LaTeX resume/CV document class?
[04:05] <somerville32> Oh wait
[04:05] <somerville32> I guess that was only bug report e-mails, lol
[04:06] <imbrandon> somerville32: i was gonna say thats kinda low
[04:06] <somerville32> What ever it is doing now it says 33.8K
[04:09] <imbrandon> just checked i have about 36k stored
[04:10] <imbrandon> thats after a massive cleanup
[04:10] <somerville32> And thats for your gmail account?
[04:10] <somerville32> Why would you delete stuff in gmail?
[04:11] <imbrandon> yea, because it was not needed
[04:11] <imbrandon> most of it is old list archives
[04:11] <imbrandon> already archived on the web
[04:12] <somerville32> I'm a data pack rat
[04:12] <somerville32> Never know when you'll need it :]
[04:16] <saivann> Does somebody knows if the fact that libgoffice-0-dev doesn't exist anymore in Hardy is normal? libgoffice-0-5-dev seems to replace it, but I want to be sure
[04:17] <persia> saivann: There's a transition underway, not currently complete.  As expected, hardy is broken in several ways.
[04:17] <RAOF> persia, LaserJock: Just to be contrary, I get a *different* error to both of you when trying to build axiom.
[04:18]  * persia suspects axiom to be a troublesome package
[04:18]  * somerville32 suspects that persia is correct.
[04:19] <saivann> persia : Gnucash dependencies is currently broken because of that package, do you believe that I should ajust gnucash dependencies or wait to see if libgoffice-0-dev package come back?
[04:19] <persia> saivann: The APIs differ.  Could be ported.  Depends on how motivated you are.
[04:20] <saivann> persia : Own, you mean that gnucash have some chance to not work with libgoffice-0-5-dev ?
[04:22] <persia> saivann: Yes.
[04:25] <saivann> persia : In your point of view, what's the better idea? Trying to make gnucash working with the new libgoffice version or port old libgoffice version from ubuntu gutsy in order to make sure gnucash will work?
[04:26] <saivann> persia : I'm ready to work on this but I need some guidance because I'm really new to this
[04:27] <imbrandon> the latter is part of the transition eventualy there will be a -0-4-dev iirc, as for doing something NOW, porting to 5 is the only viable option
[04:27] <persia> saivann: I wouldn't do the former without checking mailing list archives, especially upstream.  The latter is pointless, as it won't "make sure" gnucash will work in hardy: it'd be better to understand why it was dropped, and see what the library maintainer has planned for the transition.
[04:28] <saivann> persia : Great, I'll take a look at this, thanks for your help
[04:33] <LaserJock> saivann: we have old goffice as of today
[04:34] <persia> saivann: Thanks for looking into it.  Good luck.
[04:34] <saivann> LaserJock : What do you mean?
[04:34] <LaserJock> saivann: we got goffice 0.4 today
[04:34] <saivann> persia : Thanks, I will have fun with this :)
[04:35] <LaserJock> saivann: I'm assuming that's what you're needing
[04:35] <saivann> LaserJock : Will it be available in Hardy?
[04:35] <saivann> LaserJock : Yes, exactly
[04:35] <LaserJock> saivann: yes, as of today :-)
[04:35] <LaserJock> we had a bit of fun upstream with goffice
[04:35] <saivann> LaserJock : Great, that means that I can sleep tonight :)
[04:35] <LaserJock> which caused goffice to go to 0.5
[04:36] <saivann> hehe
[04:36] <LaserJock> but 0.4 is the stable version
[04:36] <LaserJock> so gnumeric uses goffice, and stuff that needs 0.4 should use the new goffice0.4 packages
[04:36] <saivann> LaserJock : I'm glad to hear this since no update will be needed for Gnucash
[04:37] <LaserJock> we'll have to make sure it uses the right stuff, but goffice 0.4 *is* in Hardy today
[04:37] <saivann> LaserJock : I assume that the packages names won't change? Will they?
[04:37] <LaserJock> yep
[04:37] <LaserJock> we can't have multiple versions with the same name
[04:37] <somerville32> imbrandon, 40.5K all together
[04:38] <LaserJock> saivann: actually let me check the -dev real quick
[04:38] <saivann> LaserJock : I only see the 0.5 versions in Hardy from now, is it normal?
[04:38] <LaserJock> saivann: may depend on your mirror
[04:39]  * persia notes that it may also take a while to compile recently imported libraries
[04:40] <LaserJock> saivann: libgoffice-0-5-dev is for goffice 0.5 and libgoffice-0-dev is for goffice 0.4
[04:41] <saivann> LaserJock : Thanks, it's still not available from now "libgoffice-0-dev has no installation candidate" but I'll wait few days
[04:41] <LaserJock> saivann: is gnucash having problems right now? why did it come up?
[04:42] <saivann> LaserJock : It doesn't install because it depends on libgoffice-0-4 which doesn't exist in repositories
[04:42] <LaserJock> ah
[04:42] <LaserJock> but it *does* have that dependency?
[04:42] <saivann> Yes
[04:43] <LaserJock> hmm, our package is kinda old, I'm surprised it has the dependency
[04:43] <LaserJock> are you talking about the current Debian or Hardy package?
[04:43] <saivann> current Hardy package
[04:44] <saivann> but it's not that old, it's the latest upstream version 2.2.1
[04:44] <saivann> merged from debian
[04:44] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:44] <LaserJock> but goffice 0.4 is about 1 month old
[04:45] <persia> LaserJock: libgoffice-0-4-dev is about 1 month old.  libgoffice-0-4 is older.
[04:45] <LaserJock> well ...
[04:45] <LaserJock> only in experimental
[04:46] <LaserJock> as a part of goffice, not goffice0.4
[04:46] <persia> LaserJock: Yes, as a part of goffice, but the binary package dependencies might not know the difference, due to the magic of shlibs (not that I've actually investigated this)
[04:47] <LaserJock> yeah
[04:47] <LaserJock> if gnucash in Debian was last built from experimental
[04:48] <LaserJock> see
[04:48] <LaserJock> this is why it's nice when people only package a library for one package
[04:48] <saivann> :)
[04:49] <LaserJock> gnumeric uses goffice 0.5 and *everything* else uses 0.4
[04:49] <persia> LaserJock: What?  We don't import Debian builds.
[04:50] <LaserJock> persia: sorry, I see it now
[04:50] <LaserJock> I thought we missed goffice version 0.4
[04:50] <saivann> LaserJock : Will the package *named libgoffice-0-4, libgoffice-gtk-0-4 and libgoffice-dev-0* came back or?
[04:51] <LaserJock> well
[04:52] <persia> LaserJock: No, just a source transition, from a single recommended version of the library to two supported versions.  I don't like these because it leads to things like wx2.4 + wx2.6 + wx2.8 or db4.* or automake-*, but it can significantly reduce (or rather, defer) the porting effort required for the transition.
[04:52] <LaserJock> we have: libgoffice-0-4, libgoffice-0-4-dbg, libgoffice-0-common, libgoffice-0-dev
[04:53] <LaserJock> from goffice0.4 source package
[04:53] <LaserJock> persia: well, if some people didn't insist on doing certain things this wouldn't be a problem
[04:53] <StevenK> persia: automake is a specific case, since you want to use exactly what version upstream is
[04:54] <persia> LaserJock: Hrm?  How do we control which version of libraries upstream links against?  (Although you may be speaking about upstream).
[04:54] <persia> StevenK: Yes, but wouldn't it be nifty if all upstreams used the same version?
[04:55] <LaserJock> persia: no, I'm speaking of package maintainers who package unstable versions of libs for 1 app leaving the other packages hanging
[04:55] <saivann> LaserJock : Great, so I just want to be sure of this : I don't have to make any modification on the Gnucash package?
[04:55] <LaserJock> saivann: I hope not
[04:55] <persia> LaserJock: Ah.  In that case, I'd suggest they should be agressively chasing NBS to port everything.
[04:55] <LaserJock> NBS?
[04:56] <saivann> LaserJock : Can I contact you about this if libgoffice-0-dev is still not available after a few days?
[04:56] <persia> LaserJock: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS/ - if someone starts a library transition, they should work to get everything working with the new library.
[04:56] <LaserJock> saivann: yes, please do, mantha at ubuntu.com
[04:57] <saivann> LaserJock : Thanks a lot
[04:57] <LaserJock> persia: yeah, this is part of why I'm starting to hate libraries
[04:58] <persia> LaserJock: Usually the porting isn't so bad, and transitions can be fun: what other time do you have the excuse to upload 30 or so fixes simultaneously :)
[04:58] <LaserJock> persia: well, actually the porting was deemed "umm, no" by upstream
[04:59] <imbrandon> hrm "w00t" is getting added to the Webster dictionary, and coined word of the year 2007
[04:59] <imbrandon> ugh
[04:59] <persia> LaserJock: Ah.  That's a case where it'd be nice to have an annoucement about the transition, and documentation of the package split (like for WX).
[05:00] <LaserJock> persia: yes, we got a bunch of Debian QA bugs filed yesterday
[05:00] <LaserJock> and we had to explain why our package dep'd on a lib in the oldlibs sectoin
[05:00] <LaserJock> *section
[05:01] <TheMuso> Then there is things such as libglib1.2 -> libglib1.2ldbl
[05:01] <TheMuso> Where there is no actual API change, just a package name transition.
[05:01] <persia> LaserJock: That's a good thing: at least someone cares.  For a couple of the apps I really should be porting some day, the dependency isn't even considered oldlibs, as nobody really cares.
[05:01] <LaserJock> so not only was their a change in libs but the Debian archive admins sent it to oldlibs
[05:01] <persia> TheMuso: Wasn't that also an ABI change?
[05:02] <TheMuso> persia: I'm not really sure, but packages were uninstallable because they couldn't find libglib1.2
[05:03] <persia> TheMuso: I think it was a redefinition of a long double from 64-bit to 128-bit. (but I'm not sure)
[05:04] <TheMuso> ah right.
[05:11] <LaserJock> wow, axiom is *still* building here
[05:29] <LaserJock> I am completely puzzled as to why axiom builds in Debian but not Hardy :(
[05:31] <somerville32> What is the error?
[05:31] <LaserJock> well, 4 people got 3 different errors
[05:32] <somerville32> Ok, I'll try
[05:32] <slangasek> clearly, these errors are themselves not axiomatic
[05:33]  * RAOF pokes slangasek with a halibut
[05:33]  * persia doesn't understand the poking.  Shouldn't it be more of a whallop?
[05:33] <slangasek> fish are food, not friends
[05:34] <LaserJock> I agree with persia, how do you poke somebody with a fish?
[05:34] <RAOF> Talking fish can be friends.
[05:34] <LaserJock> maybe a swordfish
[05:34] <RAOF> LaserJock: gingerly
[05:34] <persia> LaserJock: Freeze it first, or use a stiff fish.
[05:35]  * RAOF is surprised to notice the emacs22 build dependency of axiom
[05:35] <LaserJock> yeah?
[05:36] <LaserJock> my guess is it's compiling something
[05:36]  * persia wonders if there's really a significant speed gain for compiled elisp
[05:36] <LaserJock> it depends I think
[05:37] <LaserJock> considering how long it takes to compile it I often wonder
[05:38] <somerville32> cody-somerville@RAOF:~/packages/gfceu$ sbuild -d hardy gfceu_0.6.0-0ubuntu1.dsc
[05:38] <somerville32> chroot_mode is obsolete at /usr/share/perl5/Sbuild/Conf.pm line 163.
[05:38] <somerville32> How do I fix that? :P
[05:39] <somerville32> nvm
[05:39] <persia> somerville32: Edit your schroot.conf
[05:40] <RAOF> Or ~/.sbuildrc, IIRC.
[05:40] <persia> (or maybe sbuild.conf: I forget: it's a completly opaque error with such a trivial solution it's hard to remember)
[05:40] <somerville32> When I use sbuild, is it suppose to just say "Build started at ...\n****..." and then nothing?
[05:41] <RAOF> somerville32: No, it should give a build log.
[05:41] <somerville32> RAOF, It hasn't finished
[05:41] <RAOF> Although it may be a bit slow, because we're contending for resources :)
[05:41] <somerville32> oh
[05:41] <somerville32> sbuild is weird :/
[05:42] <somerville32> How do I get it to compile something arch all?
[05:42] <somerville32> "gfceu_0.6.0-0ubuntu1.dsc: amd64 not in arch list: all -- skipping"
[05:42] <RAOF> somerville32: Either use the i386 builder, or pass --arch-all
[05:42]  * LaserJock hugs pbuilder
[05:43] <Hobbsee> ich auch.
[05:43] <somerville32> :S
[05:43] <DarkMageZ> Hobbsee, at which point did you learn german?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: only some of it, and in school.
[05:44]  * persia notes that pbuilder is different than sbuild, and there are a number of cases where something builds in pbuilder and fails on the buildds
[05:50] <somerville32> woots
[05:51] <RAOF> Finished?
[05:51] <RAOF> Something happened? :)
[05:53] <somerville32> It compiled.
[05:53] <somerville32> And now I shall have a patch for persia to review in a minute
[05:53] <persia> somerville32: -ENOCONTEXT
[05:54] <somerville32> persia, To take my mind off the death of my friend, I decided to start working on the watchfile project
[05:54] <persia> somerville32: Ah.  Thanks for working on that, although I'm certainly not the only person who can review the results.
[05:55] <somerville32> persia, I'm quite certain of that too
[05:55] <somerville32> ;]
[06:02] <LaserJock> saivann: hi again
[06:03] <saivann> LaserJock : Hi :)
[06:03] <LaserJock> saivann: I figured out why goffice0.4 isn't available right now
[06:03] <saivann> LaserJock : I'm listening!
[06:04] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Are you planning on merging/syncing plotdrop?
[06:04] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, was looking at that today
[06:05] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Thanks,
[06:05] <LaserJock> saivann: I think perhaps the new binary packages have to go through the NEW queue
[06:06] <saivann> LaserJock : So it's only a matter of time
[06:07] <LaserJock> persia: how long does it take from when a .deb is built to it hitting a.u.c?
[06:08] <StevenK> LaserJock: Is it ACCEPTED or DONE?
[06:08] <persia> LaserJock: Assuming you mean the time between the buildds finishing a compilation and the time it appears in a.u.c, it's variable.  I don't really understand Soyuz, but I believe it is 43-103 minutes.
[06:08] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:08]  * Hobbsee suspects most peopel don't understand soyuz.
[06:08] <LaserJock> StevenK: neither :/
[06:08] <StevenK> LaserJock: Link me to the page?
[06:08] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: which packages need to go thru?
[06:09] <Fujitsu> It should be available around :45 of the first hour in which it is ACCEPTED before :03.
[06:09] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: goffice0.4
[06:09] <LaserJock> I wonder if soyuz got confused
[06:09] <Hobbsee> wouldn'tb e the first time
[06:09] <LaserJock> the .debs built 16 hrs ago but are not on a.u.c
[06:09] <persia> Ah.  42-101 minutes.  Thanks Fujitsu :)
[06:09] <StevenK> LaserJock: Yes. It's *NEW*
[06:09] <LaserJock> and I don't see anything but translations in +queue
[06:10] <LaserJock> StevenK: but I don't see the binaries in +queue
[06:10] <Fujitsu> Translations are bound to their binaries, no?
[06:10] <Fujitsu> i386-translations,i386?
[06:10] <persia> LaserJock: NEW is manual.  It gets hit on the next NEW day, which seems to be twice a week or so.
[06:10] <Fujitsu> Or the next Hobbsee poking, no?
[06:11] <Fujitsu> Oops, `i386,raw-translations'
[06:11] <LaserJock> hmm
[06:11] <LaserJock> I thought the translations were separate
[06:11] <Fujitsu> Evil Soyuz inconsistent representations.
[06:11] <LaserJock> then that would make sense
[06:11] <StevenK> LaserJock: May I suggest a new pair of glasses? :-P
[06:11] <LaserJock> StevenK: why?
[06:11] <ScottK> persia: Did you see the lintian backports got done.  I bugged Riddell about them.
[06:11]  * persia thinks a new screen would go well with that.
[06:12] <StevenK> goffice0.4,goffice0.4_0.4.2-4_i386_translations.tar.gz (i386,raw-translations)
[06:12] <LaserJock> yeah, how am I supposed to know that that means the .deb?
[06:12] <persia> ScottK: No (but I'm not a backports user).  Someone should update the bug (or LP should email me)
[06:12] <persia> ScottK: Thanks.
[06:12] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: By realising that Soyuz is special.
[06:12] <LaserJock> that looks like just translations to me
[06:12] <Fujitsu> (and it has the binary icon too)
[06:12] <ScottK> Short bus special.
[06:12] <persia> ScottK: Nevermind.  Yes, but not yet for feisty (I need to read my mail more carefully).
[06:12] <StevenK> LaserJock: There's two icons next to it, "Binary" and "Translation"
[06:13] <somerville32> Do I want python-dev or python-all-dev?
[06:13] <ScottK> somerville32: Or python?
[06:13] <persia> somerville32: Are you building modules?
[06:13] <ScottK> It depends
[06:13] <StevenK> LaserJock: You can also hit the arrow next to it to expand it and see what it includes
[06:13] <LaserJock> StevenK: and how am I supposed to know what th eicons mean?
[06:13] <somerville32> persia, just an application
[06:13] <persia> LaserJock: Experimentation
[06:13] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i tend to avoid the new queue
[06:13] <LaserJock> StevenK: right, I figured that out *afterward*
[06:13] <persia> somerville32: Just python then, I think.
[06:13] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Hovering.
[06:13] <StevenK> LaserJock: If you hover your mouse over the icon, it has a tooltip
[06:13] <ScottK> somerville32: Is it arch all?
[06:14] <somerville32> ScottK, yes
[06:14] <ScottK> somerville32: Just Python then almost certainly.
[06:14] <LaserJock> StevenK: which is utterly idiotic UI design
[06:15] <persia> LaserJock: I disagree, but think manual might help.
[06:15] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: who said anything about sensible UI design?
[06:15] <LaserJock> persia: a UI that requires you to have prior knowledge to figure out what you're trying to learn is a bit stupid IMO
[06:16] <LaserJock> am I supposed to just have my mouse over anything in the page to see if perhaps theres some tooltip?
[06:16] <persia> LaserJock: Depends on the intended audience.  Manuals are cool, and busy interfaces are annoying.  In this case, I agree that the lack of information about how to discover information is an issue.
[06:16] <Fujitsu> If you don't understand what an icon means, it's probably good to check.
[06:16] <Fujitsu> (by hovering)
[06:16] <LaserJock> well, if you just give the information the first time that might work too ;-)
[06:17] <ScottK> LaserJock: Clearly if you didn't get it it's all your fault since we all know LP's design is perfection personified.
[06:17] <LaserJock> well, I may be a little slow I guess, but it was quite confusing for me
[06:17] <LaserJock> translations should be in Rosetta
[06:17] <Fujitsu> LP does certainly need some UI work. Particularly the Soyuz bits, which are generally utterly confusing.
 in case anyone missed it.
[06:18] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Translations have to come from the builds and enter the distro at some point.
[06:18] <LaserJock> sure
[06:18] <LaserJock> but that should be a different queue
[06:18] <ScottK> Would somebody in Canada go wake up Tonyyarruso.  I've got a Kompozer question.
[06:18] <persia> LaserJock: Why should it be a different queue?  They get uploaded to the same place.
[06:18] <Fujitsu> Heh.
[06:18] <LaserJock> saivann: anyway ... it is waiting for an Archive Admin to approve the .debs
[06:19] <LaserJock> persia: oh?
[06:19] <LaserJock> there is no mentions of .deb  in "goffice0.4,goffice0.4_0.4.2-4_i386_translations.tar.gz (i386,raw-translations)"
[06:19] <Fujitsu> I see an `i386' there, therefore it's a binary.
[06:19] <saivann> LaserJock : That's great, thanks all for your hard work on this, I appreciate it
[06:20] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: sure, but translations from that binary
[06:20] <Fujitsu> As to why it gives the translation filename, I doubt we'll ever know.
[06:20] <LaserJock> not the binary itself
[06:20] <LaserJock> saivann: no problem
[06:20] <persia> LaserJock: translations seem to only come from i386, but get pushed for everyone.
[06:20] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: The architecture is `(i386,raw-translations)'
[06:20] <StevenK> LaserJock: If you expand the arrow, you'll see four .deb 's
[06:20] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: how do I know that's the arch?
[06:21] <LaserJock> what I'm saying is they're throwing text out there, none of which indicates that that row is for the binary
[06:21] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: I don't know of anything else referred to by the string `i386'
[06:21] <StevenK> I do.
[06:21] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I assumed it was translations *from* i386 not i386 itself
[06:21] <StevenK> [17:21] [FreeNode] -!- i386 [n=.....]
[06:21]  * Fujitsu stabs StevenK.
[06:21] <StevenK> There's an IRC nick i386 :-P
[06:21] <StevenK> LaserJock: It's both.
[06:22] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: hint:  whinging at MOTU about lp design is unhelpful.
[06:22] <LaserJock> StevenK: but why would I know about it
[06:22] <StevenK> Fujitsu: That tickles!
[06:22] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: other members of MOTU have only discovered this stuff by happening to figure it out
[06:22] <StevenK> Right
[06:22] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: oh, I know, I'm just trying to figure out if it's just me or not
[06:22] <LaserJock> apparently it is
[06:22] <StevenK> It's just you. Launchpad hates you specifically
[06:22] <LaserJock> well, I will tell you the biggest reason I missed it I think
[06:23] <LaserJock> we didn't used to have the translation stuff in +queue I dont' think, or it was separate
[06:23] <StevenK> No <blink> tag that says "Jordan, the binaries you want are here --->" ?
[06:23] <LaserJock> well
[06:24] <LaserJock> the line is at least heavily geared towards translations because of the filename there
[06:24] <somerville32> Please sponsor bug #175802 :)
[06:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175802 in gfceu "Sponsor gfceu_0.6.0-0ubuntu2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175802
[06:24] <LaserJock> StevenK: something like that ;-)
[06:24] <LaserJock> perhaps I'll have a talk with cprov/kiko about it
[06:25] <LaserJock> usually they tell me I"m on crack anyway so it won't be anything new ;-)
[06:29] <Fujitsu> ....
[06:29] <Fujitsu> Why did I just have one of my sync requests Wishlisted and Newed by somebody I've never heard of?
[06:30] <LaserJock> helpful people
[06:30] <StevenK> Oooer, set to New. Way coo
[06:30] <StevenK> cool, even
[06:30] <Fujitsu> Ah, saivann! Please don't do that.
[06:32] <saivann> Fujitsu : Don't do what?
[06:32] <Fujitsu> saivann: Set my sync bugs to New. Or anybody's, for that matter.
[06:32] <persia> saivann: Unconfirm a developer confirmed bug
[06:33] <saivann> Fujitso : Oh sorry, can you show me what bug that was?
[06:33] <persia> saivann: Despite the documentation that says people can't self-confirm: that doesn't apply to developers.
[06:33] <TheMuso> WOOHOO!! I know why UbuntuStudio disks couldn't be built with jigdo files. Now to make a patch to fix it.
[06:33] <Fujitsu> Bug #175797
[06:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175797 in omniorb4 "Please sync omniorb4 4.1.1-1  (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175797
[06:33] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: Why couldn't they?
[06:33] <LaserJock> I'm starting to wonder if it'd be helpful to have some sort of flag or something for process bugs
[06:34] <saivann> I'm sorry about that, thanks for telling me this
[06:34] <persia> LaserJock: I don't think so.  If I file a normal bug, and can confirm it, and point at the code, I think it belongs "Confirmed", even if it's not a process bug.
[06:34] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: It has to do with the way the main/restricted, and universe/multiverse parts of the archive are separated out on the cdimage build system. WHen ubuntustudio disks are built, main/restricted are symlinked into where the universe/multiverse stuff is stored. This hense causes md5 generation to fail, which mkisofs+jigdo with md5 checking choaks on.
[06:35] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[06:35] <LaserJock> persia: right, but I was thinking it might help for some other issues as well, maybe
[06:35] <somerville32> Fujitsu, When you post the changelog for a sync. You usually include the last ubuntu entry as well (to see a summary of ubuntu changes).
[06:35] <StevenK> TheMuso: Yeah, I suspect the cd building machinery is geared for building from main
[06:36] <persia> somerville32: I don't do that, and almost never see it.
[06:36] <TheMuso> StevenK: It is, but its the way Colin tried to keep things separate.
[06:36] <Fujitsu> persia: I think similar.
[06:36] <StevenK> somerville32: Geh? requestsync doesn't do that
[06:36] <TheMuso> StevenK: Shouldn't be hard to work around though, now I know which part of debian-cd needs patching.
[06:37] <LaserJock> somerville32: It think your'e supposed to include *from* the last ubuntu entry, not including the last ubuntu entry
[06:37] <somerville32> You're required to describe the ubuntu delta and why it can be dropped.
[06:37] <somerville32> The last ubuntu entries will either have those changes or a summary
[06:37]  * persia agrees with Laserjock, although somerville32's sponsoring bugs with the .changes are also nice
[06:37] <TheMuso> somerville32: Not always.
[06:38] <TheMuso> Thtas why there is the explanation in the first place.
[06:38] <TheMuso> thats
[06:38] <persia> Well, the explanation has other value as well...
[06:38] <TheMuso> Yeah I know.
[06:38] <somerville32> If I was an archive admin/motu, I would be checking the changelog to ensure that the person filing the sync request did indeed clearly describe the changes
[06:39] <TheMuso> I think it depends on how busy the archive admins are.
[06:39] <persia> somerville32: Why?  The archive admins trust the developers.  Sponsors will check that.  The developers could just upload, but don't due to complex historical issues.
[06:39] <LaserJock> well, that's not really the point I don't think
[06:39] <Fujitsu> MOTU should be checking the diff.
[06:39] <LaserJock> I think the point is that the .changes have all the additional changelog entries
[06:40] <LaserJock> so if you were to look at .changes you'd be able to get a pretty complete changelog
[06:40] <LaserJock> and so if you're watching -change you see what's actually changed
[06:40] <LaserJock> not just the latest change
[06:40]  * Fujitsu isn't sure how that's relevant.
[06:41] <LaserJock> because mdz scans -changes looking for stuff ;-)
[06:41] <Fujitsu> How does that affect which changelog entries we put in the bug, or vice versa?
[06:41] <persia> LaserJock: Yes to all of that, but it doesn't matter for the format of sync bugs: the archive admins generate the .changes
[06:42] <Fujitsu> (and the .changes don't include the current sourcepackagerelease)
[06:42] <LaserJock> persia: right
[06:42] <LaserJock> I don't think it particularly matters if you include the last ubuntu entry
[06:42] <somerville32> No, it really doesn't if you plan to sponsor it
[06:42] <persia> LaserJock: Doesn't matter at all.  That's the consensus point :)
[06:43] <LaserJock> but I was talking about the general practice of including more than just the last in .changes if it's around
[06:43] <persia> LaserJock: That's merges, but yes.
[06:43] <StevenK> I don't because requestsync doesn't. I will clearly state what the changes were and why they can be dropped, though
[06:43] <LaserJock> persia: yep, and I see merges and syncs as quite similar so I would tend to do the same thing
[06:44] <somerville32> I don't use requestsync so I do include the last ubuntu changelog entry because it usually includes a summary of remaining ubuntu changes from that merge
[06:44] <LaserJock> StevenK: ah well, I don't use requestsync so that might make a difference :/
[06:44] <persia> LaserJock: Right, but you don't want to do that because of Origin:, so you leave it to the archive admins, who expect something like the output of requestsync.
[06:44] <somerville32> I just think that information is useful instead of me paraphrasing it
[06:45] <Fujitsu> somerville32: I hope you mean `in addition to', not `instead of'
[06:45] <somerville32> Fujitsu, I do
[06:45] <LaserJock> somerville32: well, in recent times it's been much more useful
[06:45] <LaserJock> before the last ubuntu changelog entry was pretty useless most of the time
[06:45] <LaserJock> before,
[06:46] <persia> LaserJock: When?  Policy has always been to include all relevant changes new to Ubuntu in .changes
[06:46] <persia> LaserJock: Nevermind.  I misunderstood.
[06:47] <pwnguin> suck. two nights witghout power =(
[06:47] <somerville32> Bug #172926 is an example of what I tend to do
[06:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172926 in harvestman "Sync harvestman 1.4.6-6 from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172926
[06:47] <warp10> Hi all!
[06:48] <somerville32> I suppose it doesn't make much difference if you plan to sponsor it
[06:48] <persia> somerville32: Sure, but the info at the bottom of the bug is largely useless, as you've put it at the top.  The only reason to bother is if someone might not trust you, and as you enter the data in the description, if you're not trusted, it would be checked anyway.
[06:49] <somerville32> I'm working under the premise that I'm not trusted because I don't have upload rights :P
[06:50] <persia> somerville32: Right, you're not trusted (in that sense), but for the same reason, the info at the bottom of the bug can't be trusted either.  My opinion is that the bug should be formatted as if you were trusted, as your sponsor would ideally not need to change anything when they submit to the archive admin.
[06:50] <somerville32> ok
[06:50] <LaserJock> hmm, this is new:
[06:50] <LaserJock> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: debian/plotdrop/usr/bin/plotdrop shouldn't be linked with libgconf-2.so.4 (it uses none of its symbols).
[06:52] <StevenK> LaserJock: From the new dpkg
[06:53] <LaserJock> ah
[06:59] <LaserJock> hmm, so the PPA confusion begins
[07:00] <Hobbsee> it did long ago
[07:00]  * Hobbsee has requested one of the canonical people go and strongarm infinity into fixing the bug.
[07:00] <Hobbsee> failing that, i'm sure mneptok will help
[07:00]  * Fujitsu pokes bug #136399
[07:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136399 in soyuz "PPA builders performing normal Ubuntu binary mangling" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136399
[07:01] <StevenK> Ahhh, which explains why -motu got mailed
[07:01] <LaserJock> ahh
[07:01] <LaserJock> where does that show up?
[07:02] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: In the Maintainer field.
[07:02] <Fujitsu> And in an absence of translations, unless you know where to look.
[07:02] <LaserJock> I know
[07:03] <LaserJock> but how does the user get at it
[07:03] <Hobbsee> apt-cache show foo
[07:03] <Fujitsu> apt-cache show someevilppapackage
[07:03] <LaserJock> I wouldn't think the Maintainer field would be that user-visible
[07:03] <Hobbsee> or if it shows in update manager, etc
[07:03] <Fujitsu> (tautology, I know)
[07:03] <LaserJock> hmm, I guess I just didn't think people would use apt-cache for looking for that kind of thing
[07:04] <Fujitsu> Synaptic would do it, probably.
[07:04] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: How else do people know to email the ML with their bugs?
[07:05] <LaserJock> I would expect them to actually use LP
[07:06] <LaserJock> I would think that would be what people would get funnel'd to via tools/google/wiki, etc.
[07:06] <Fujitsu> No, that's why the send them to MOTU Media.
[07:06] <Fujitsu> (the maintainer for all modified universe packages is MOTU Media, thanks $somebug)
[07:06] <Fujitsu> s/they/they/
[07:06] <Fujitsu> Baaah.
[07:06] <Fujitsu> s/the/they/
[07:08] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: that would require LP being easy enough to use for people who haven't seen it before
[07:08] <Hobbsee> as soon as they get the "this project is not using LP message" they give up, and email it
[07:09] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Or file the bug against Launchpad instead.
[07:09]  * persia wonders how one is supposed to file a bug against a PPA anyway...
[07:09] <Hobbsee> or that
[07:09] <Hobbsee> speak to the team that created that ppa, i think
[07:10] <persia> Hobbsee: Right, so it's an email, so the mangling means it's always us :)
[07:10] <Hobbsee> yup
[07:13]  * Fujitsu advocates bugs for PPAs, and partner being a special case of PPA.
[07:14] <Fujitsu> That way we get a nice non-Ubuntu branding for all.
[07:14]  * persia encourages Fujitsu to spec that for May
[07:14]  * persia thinks a PPA is just a special case of a distro hosted by LP
[07:15]  * Fujitsu notes he can't exactly write LP specs.
[07:15] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you'll probably have turned to the evil side by then
[07:15]  * Fujitsu hides his tail.
[07:15] <persia> Fujitsu: You can register a blueprint, and put a spec on w.u.c, and it will get cut & pasted to w.c.c if accepted.
[07:16] <Fujitsu> I'm sure Canonical people have a plan for this sort of thing, anyway.
[07:16] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I suppose I can tighten some thumb-screws on that, if it'll help
[07:17] <LaserJock> I've expressed my concerns all along about this kind of thing
[07:17] <LaserJock> and if I have some good examples I might get somewhere
[07:17]  * Fujitsu can't see partner changing for a very long time (we have a released distro using it, although it would be cool to get rid of it before we have an LTS on it).
[07:18] <persia> Fujitsu: And go back to commercial?
[07:19] <Fujitsu> persia: I'd prefer a special PPA to something entirely independent of LP.
[07:19] <persia> Fujitsu: Makes sense
[07:21] <Fujitsu> It was a good idea to put it on LP, and much of the backend work is useful for other things, but having it as a component within Ubuntu is not right.
[07:23]  * persia gives Hobbsee a special 3-month pass permitting complete abstention from direct communication with users
[07:23] <Hobbsee> persia: why?  what have i done?
[07:24] <ScottK> Oooh.  Me too.  Me too.
[07:24] <Hobbsee> oh, my $sick-of-lp-bugs reply.
[07:24] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: you're a little ... direct these days ;-)
[07:24] <Fujitsu> persia: I'm not surprised you didn't know about +commentedbugs. It only appeared a few months ago.
[07:24] <persia> Hobbsee: You've spent lots of time responding to a high volume of user requests in LP, various mailing lists, and IRC channels.  You deserve a reward.
[07:25] <ScottK> Hobbsee: You mean the one about the PPA to the MOTU list?
[07:25] <Hobbsee> ScottK: yes
[07:25] <persia> Fujitsu: I plan to use it to track down those I touched before I started subscribing to everything.  I expect to to be useful.
[07:26] <persia> Further, it's a nice way to check people's activities in LP when asked to be a "fan".
[07:26] <ScottK> Hobbsee: It may not suprise you to discover I didn't think it was overly harsh.  It's actually nicer than the one I'd have written, but I guess that's not saying much.
[07:28] <LaserJock> if they got it from the .deb then you can't blame them I guess
[07:28] <LaserJock> one would hope that the ppa URL would give it away
[07:29] <Hobbsee> true, but apparently not
[07:30]  * Hobbsee --> gone
[07:30] <persia> Is it a bug that Slow Keys offers to activate when someone doesn't hold down a key, but X is swapped out?
[07:30] <Fujitsu> persia: You mean somebody holds down a key and switches, leaving X with no release event?
[07:31] <persia> Fujitsu: I didn7t "switch", X just got caught in the thrash, so 8 seconds went by before the release event appeared.
[07:31] <Fujitsu> Ohh.
[07:32] <Fujitsu> I don't see how it could be worked around.
[07:32] <persia> I juyst don't know that it's worth tracking it as a bug, as people shouldn't expect normal behaviour with lots of swapping anyway.
[07:34] <ScottK> persia: What would be the bug?  "Slow Keys didn't anticipate eventual arrival of release event"?
[07:37] <LaserJock> will requestsync give you the option to just have text rather than sending an email?
[07:37] <persia> ScottK: Maybe, or maybe it would make sense to have Slow Keys track something at a lower level, where there are actual interrupts for keypress/release.  Not easy to solve, even were it worth reporting (and based on thee two responses so far, I think it's not: beter to say "Buy more RAM, or don7t run that!")
[07:37] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: You can hit Ctrl+C at the end and copy it...
[07:37] <LaserJock> ah, k
[07:38]  * LaserJock is slightly annoyed with tools that assume you can send email from your machine
[07:39]  * Fujitsu gets annoyed with machines that can't send email, instead.
[07:39] <swisgard> ScottK,
[07:39] <swisgard> are you the scott from webchat?
[07:39] <ScottK> swisgard: No.
[07:40] <swisgard> exact nicks with same capitalization :P
[07:40] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: why? I don't want my machines sending mail off :-)
[07:40] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: What would you be running that would be sending external mail without your request?
[07:41] <LaserJock> I don't know
[07:41] <LaserJock> but I'd rather not have to worry about it
[07:41] <LaserJock> I don't send mail from my machines so why would I want a MTA around
[07:42] <persia> Laslaserjock: If an application wants to send mail, it can do so, regardless of whether the host supports it.  It's only thte applicaiotn s that you want to be able to send mail that would use the system mail queue anyway.
[07:43] <somerville32> Please sponsor bug 175813
[07:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175813 in catfish "Sponsor catfish_0.3-ubuntu2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175813
[07:44] <LaserJock> yeah, I just don't like CLI apps sending mail, bad experiences I guess
[07:44] <LaserJock> if I send an email I want to use my email app and make sure I have a record of it, etc.
[07:57] <dholbach> good morning
[07:58] <somerville32> Hiya dholbach
[07:58] <dholbach> hey som
[07:58] <dholbach> oops :)
[07:58] <dholbach> good morning somerville32 :)
[07:58] <somerville32> :)
[07:59] <ScottK> Good morning dholbach.
[07:59] <dholbach> hey ScottK
[07:59] <dholbach> how are you all doing?
[07:59] <ScottK> Tired (it's 3AM here)
[07:59] <dholbach> ugh
[07:59] <dholbach> when do you have to get up again?
[07:59] <ScottK> 7AM.  It's not clear yet if I'll be in bed by then ornot.
[08:00]  * Fujitsu sends ScottK to bed.
[08:00] <dholbach> what are you working on?
[08:01] <dholbach> it seems we need the MOTU-send-to-bed police - we should have had it for crimsun and Hobbsee already
[08:01] <Fujitsu> dholbach: Yep.
[08:01] <LaserJock> dholbach: well, for some of us it's you ;-)
[08:02] <dholbach> LaserJock: what are you doing up still? :)
[08:02] <LaserJock> I always know it's time to go to bed when dholbach shows up
[08:02] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Heh.
[08:02] <dholbach> I need to show up earlier :)
[08:02] <dholbach> oh man... the sponsoring queue has grown hugely
[08:02]  * dholbach starts triaging
[08:03] <LaserJock> hopefully lots of merge/sync bugs
[08:04] <dholbach> a few of them, yeah
[08:04] <dholbach> lots of .desktop files too though
[08:04] <dholbach> I'd be really happy if those landed upstream-upstream
[08:04] <dholbach> so they'd get translated properly
[08:04] <LaserJock> yeah
[08:05] <LaserJock> I wish we had a good way to deal with that
[08:05] <dholbach> if you ask seb128 about it, he'd say: don't upload, forward upstream instead
[08:05] <dholbach> he feels quite strongly about it
[08:05] <dholbach> he wants a tip-top 100% french desktop :)
[08:06] <LaserJock> yes ... he's chewed me out about it before ;-)
[08:06] <dholbach> hehe
[08:06] <LaserJock> but we should be translating them in rosetta
[08:06] <LaserJock> that's what it's there for
[08:06] <dholbach> it's not that easy
[08:06] <LaserJock> well sure, or we would have done it already
[08:07] <dholbach> the problem is that you need to hook the desktop files and stuff into the build system
[08:07] <LaserJock> I just think seb128 works a lot more with active upstreams
[08:07] <ScottK> dholbach: Work for a customer who figured out that the guy that was doing the data analysis for his presentation on Thursday is actually on vacation.
[08:07] <dholbach> the way most of our desktop file patches are done, they just add a static file
[08:07] <dholbach> ScottK: now you're doing the data analysis?
[08:09] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: hmm, seems like we've got quite a lot of delta for maxima
[08:10] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: just filed a sync request for plotdrop
[08:11] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Quite. mwolson introduced it last release, and I'm not an emacs god.
[08:11] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Danke.
[08:18] <ScottK> dholbach: Yes.
[08:18] <dholbach> ScottK: I hope you'll be able to take a nap at least. :-/
[08:18] <ScottK> Should be able to.
[08:21] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: Good to see that delta will be gone soon.
[08:25]  * somerville32 yawns and looks at the solid, LCD numbers on his clock: 04:25
[08:32] <ScottK2> Let's hear it for redundant internet connections.  Provider A is still dead.
[08:35] <Adri2000> LaserJock: I'm adding the PTS link to DaD
[08:47] <Adri2000> err, didn't even realize he left
[08:47] <Adri2000> anyway, committed
[08:51] <\sh> moins
[08:51] <TheMuso> c
[08:51] <TheMuso> ugh wrong tab
[08:56] <sakhi_> ohi all
[09:26] <geser> good morning
[09:27] <coNP[uni]> Guten Morgen, geser
[09:28] <geser> :)
[10:21] <\sh> does anyone know if evolution or any other email client is able to read .pst files from exchange?
[10:21] <broonie> There is a plugin for Thunderbird, I believe.
[10:22] <imbrandon> \sh: thunderbir, then mbox, then evolution
[10:22] <\sh> imbrandon, so thunderbird can import .pst files...cool...that's all I need :)
[10:31] <huats> morning everyone
[10:35] <geser> morning huats
[10:35] <huats> morning geser
[10:42] <ikonia> ahh imbrandon
[10:49] <imbrandon> ikonia: ?
[10:49] <imbrandon> moins huats and geser
[10:50] <ikonia> imbrandon: ahh hello
[10:50] <imbrandon> ikonia: heya , not to be rude but do i know you ?
[10:50] <ikonia> imbrandon: apologies for the direct query, but I'm trying to get a clear status on the flash-nonfree package you've applied a fix for and its status. Launchpad shows it as "fix released" however I am unable to verify exactly it's status
[10:51] <ikonia> imbrandon: we have spoken once or twice over email, certainly nothing personal
[10:51] <imbrandon> ahh okies, umm yea i uploaded the fix to hardy ( thus the fix relesed status )
[10:51] <imbrandon> backports nor updates to stable releases have ben completed though
[10:51] <imbrandon> if thats what you mean
[10:52] <imbrandon> ( it was just a md5 update )
[10:53] <imbrandon> ikonia: hehe and email is personal, dident mean to sound rude, just dident reconise your nick :)
[10:54] <ikonia> imbrandon: thats fine, so is the status of the hardy package going to be backported or will the gutsy pasckage get an update
[10:54] <ikonia> imbrandon: I built an updated gusty package and want to know if it is worth submitting rather than the hardy backport if that is going to take time to progress
[10:54] <ikonia> as you say it was md5 checksums only and the removal of a check for the now removed files in the post file
[10:55] <imbrandon> ikonia: well it kinda has to be done with the hardy sources, but to that end it isnt really a matter of how hard it is, its a matter of me or jdong getting in touch with pitti to see about if it should be backported or pushed via -updates
[10:56] <ikonia> imbrandon: is there anything I can assist with, I see you have a silly long line of bugs with your name on it, and the confusion over this bug is causing a little bit of noise in the #ubuntu support channels and forums that would be nice to close off
[10:56] <imbrandon> ikonia: i applogise for the delay, its largely my fault i put it on the back burner, i'll see what i can get done today
[10:57] <imbrandon> ikonia: hrm not really at this point other than ask them to be patient hehe, hopefully i can get something pushed today
[10:57] <ikonia> imbrandon: no need to apologise, I'm just trying to understand the current situation as the launchpad bug has turned into a living mess and want to be clear about what I'm advising to people to keep them happy and working
[10:57] <ikonia> imbrandon: thanks for your efforts.
[10:57] <imbrandon> np
[10:58] <imbrandon> infact it should be clsoe to time for pitti to be waking up, i'll see if i can raise him soonish
[10:58] <imbrandon> close*
[10:59] <TheMuso> imbrandon: If he's on IRC, he's awake.
[10:59] <ikonia> excellent
[10:59] <TheMuso> i.e he's on right now.
[10:59] <ikonia> imbrandon: as I say, not a moan, just looking for clarifiction.
[11:00] <imbrandon> ikonia: no worries, sometimes i need a kick in the arse to get soemthing priortised
[11:00] <imbrandon> :)
[11:00] <ikonia> imbrandon: it is low priority your right but the trouble its causing in support is a bit of a pain
[11:00] <ikonia> imbrandon: flash is "life and death" to the majority of desktop users
[11:00] <ikonia> ......apparantly
[11:00] <imbrandon> i totaly understand, its a high profile package :)
[11:01] <ikonia> spot on
[11:01] <TheMuso> Bring on gnash I say.
[11:01] <imbrandon> TheMuso: hehe yea
[11:02] <bab> hi.. short question:  i filed #175725 which i thought was a simple sync, and then it turns out it needs a 4-line patch for python 2.4->2.5.  is the request filed correctly?
[11:02] <bab> not sure about ubuntu protocol, i generally just do debian stuff
[11:02] <persia> bug #175725
[11:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175725 in regina-normal "Please sync regina-normal (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175725
[11:04] <persia> bab: It's typically a good idea to retitile the bug to something like "Please merge regina-normal 4.4-1 from Debian unstable (main)" when a merge ends up being required.  Also, you'll want a changelog entry for 4.4-1ubuntu1 in your debdiff describing the required variance.
[11:05] <bab> persia: ta
[11:06] <imbrandon> hrm actualy the more i think about it flash is multiverse and i'm on the new SRU team for that hehe, seems like a good canidate to test the new process
[11:06] <imbrandon> s/new/old
[11:06] <persia> imbrandon: Has the team reviewed the policy and process, and come up with the new one yet?
[11:06] <persia> Err.  Perhaps not :)
[11:07] <imbrandon> persia: no, but i think i can follow the old ( pre current ) process, as it will likely be the one used or soemthing close
[11:08] <imbrandon> e.g. package prepared, 2 sru team acks, uploaded to proposed, 5 testers, migrated to -updates ( very simplified )
[11:08] <imbrandon> persia: ^
[11:08] <persia> imbrandon: The resolution restoring ~motu-sru included the expectation that the appointed team would review the policy & process, and either change to more closely match main or provide explanation of the variance.
[11:08] <imbrandon> persia: exactly
[11:08] <StevenK> persia: IOW, get cracking?
[11:09] <imbrandon> persia: the pre-current process was almost identical to main iirc
[11:09] <persia> StevenK: No, I won't say that unless it's still pending in 9 days :)
[11:09] <persia> imbrandon: Maybe.  I just want the duly appointed reviewers to determine and document current practice, as I feel we're asea
[11:09] <imbrandon> ikonia: mind giving me your email/lp username , i'll likely have you gather testers when it hits proposed
[11:10] <imbrandon> persia: definately, we have a psudo list email going arround now working on getting an irc meeting going
[11:10] <imbrandon> psudo list as in its just a cc of all the new sru members
[11:10] <persia> imbrandon: Excellent news :)
[11:10] <imbrandon> heh
[11:10] <ikonia> imbrandon: sure, may I message it to you ?
[11:10] <imbrandon> sure
[11:18] <bab> persia: thanks, all done
[11:18] <persia> bab: Excellent.  Thanks for helping out.
[11:18] <imbrandon> ok good news, pitti just had me upload the update to proposed and since we have so many testers in hardy already it will be fasttracked, and he proposed a perminate SRU ack for it since its just md5 sum updates
[11:19] <imbrandon> ikonia persia crimsun jdong ^^ :uploading now
[11:19]  * persia doesn't think that's a good idea: it should still need testers, as the binary blob has implicit dependencies that may change
[11:19] <imbrandon> persia: then the deps would have to be changed
[11:19] <imbrandon> this is for md5 updates only
[11:19] <persia> imbrandon: You can't backport libc :)
[11:20] <imbrandon> right the ack is only for -proposed
[11:20] <imbrandon> not directly to updates
[11:21] <persia> imbrandon: Ah.  In that case: "Cool"
[11:30] <ScottK> persia: There were guidelines about procedure in what MOTU meeting approved too.
[11:31]  * persia looks again
[11:31] <imbrandon> moins ScottK
[11:31] <ScottK> imbrandon: Good evening (I'm still awake)
[11:31] <imbrandon> ahh
[11:31] <persia> ScottK: Isn't it morning there anyway?
[11:32] <ScottK> persia: It can't be morning.  I haven't slept yet.
[11:32]  * persia thinks it's one thing to expect people to track timezone (which is hard), but tracking personal internal state is more so...
[11:32] <imbrandon> ikonia: ok flash uploaded to -proposed, as soon as pitti approves it i'll email -motu and cc you to gather testers, as soon as we have a few successfull testers it will migrate to -updates
[11:33] <persia> ScottK: You mean the "approved by one member" guideline?
[11:33] <ScottK> persia: Yes.
[11:34] <ScottK> Didn't recall if there was more
[11:34] <persia> ScottK: The only other I see from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-November/002806.html was the requirement for documentation of the rationale for universe variance from the main policy.
[11:34] <persia> (which is apparently in-progress)
[11:41] <soren> If someone is bored, feel free to grab my merges (axiom and mit-scheme).
[11:42] <imbrandon> soren: i think laserjock was working on axiom ( not positive, but from comments in here i gatherd that )
[11:42] <soren> Oh, ok.
[11:43]  * soren greps the irc logs
[11:43] <soren> imbrandon: Ah, yes, so he was.
[11:43] <persia> soren: laserjock was reporting that axiom looked like a sync, but three different build testers reported three different build errors, so there's something odd that may need investigation.
[11:44] <soren> persia: I'm definitely getting a different build error than the one in the ftbfs bug report.
[11:53] <Kmos> morning!
[11:59] <Hobbsee> good morning
[12:01] <geser> Hi Hobbsee
[12:01] <geser> Hi Kmos
[12:01] <Hobbsee> hey geser
[12:04] <mruiz> hi all
[12:05] <Kmos> hi geser
[12:05] <Kmos> :)
[12:05] <Kmos> Hobbsee: morning!
[12:09] <mruiz> dholbach, I'm fixing the details related to the merge (#160601)
[12:10] <dholbach> great
[12:17] <Kmos> mruiz: i've received your mail =)
[12:17] <mruiz> :-)
[12:17] <Kmos> mruiz: if you need sokme help, tell me :)
[12:17] <Kmos> *some
[12:17] <mruiz> thanks Kmos , sorry for the delay but I was busy with other things
[12:18] <Kmos> mruiz: np
[12:18] <Kmos> i understand.
[12:23] <asac> RAOF: i have a working patch for miro + xul 1.9
[12:23] <asac> RAOF: the package to test is in the mozillateam ppa ... can you take a look and point out any regressions?
[12:24] <asac> (i haven't used miro before, so i cannot tell if there are regressions)
[12:25] <Kmos> asac: that will be cool to miro debian maintainer test it :)
[12:26] <asac> he?
[12:26] <asac> debian doesn't have xul 1.9 yet
[12:27] <Kmos> ah =)
[12:29] <mruiz> I have a bug related to a sync with an specific version; Debian added the latest version but the bug # 160965 includes version 2.10.8-1 (and the latest is 2.11.2). What should I do: use it or create a new one?
[12:30] <persia> bug #160965
[12:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.11.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160965
[12:31] <Kmos> mruiz: i think we should sync from debian
[12:31] <persia> mruiz: You will want to reuse that bug.  If the previous bug was resolved (i.e. Fix Released), you'd want a new one, as it requests a new action.
[12:31] <mruiz> Kmos, of course... I'm asking about the sync bug
[12:31] <Kmos> no ubuntu changes are applicable
[12:31] <mruiz> thanks persia
[12:32] <kiko> hey thre
[12:32] <persia> hi kiko
[12:32] <kiko> has anyone seen sivan around recently?
[12:33] <kiko> I wanted to ask him something but he's off the face of the internet
[12:33] <soren> kiko: I saw him yesterday.
[12:33] <kiko> soren, right here?
[12:33] <soren> kiko: In #ubuntu-devel.
[12:33] <kiko> aha. thanks!
[12:33] <soren> :)
[12:33] <kiko> as sivan or sivang, soren?
[12:33] <soren> sivang
[12:37] <mruiz> thanks Kmos
[12:38] <Kmos> mruiz: np
[12:38] <Kmos> Can someone help me with this bug in building? http://pastebin.com/dcd1d627
[12:38] <Kmos> i got it from debian, but got that problem here in hardy pbuilder
[12:39] <imbrandon> Kmos: looks like it could possibly missing a build dep
[12:39] <Kmos> imbrandon: i've added it, but still not working
[12:40] <Kmos> libexpat.so.0 -> libexpat1-dev
[12:41] <geser> Kmos: which package is this?
[12:41] <Kmos> geser: wink
[12:46] <Kmos> bug 175076
[12:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175076 in wink "Please merge wink 1.5.1060-4 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175076
[12:52] <mruiz> we need to sync a package (bug #160965)... who is the responsible to concrete the sync?
[12:52] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.11.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160965
[12:53] <ScottK> mruiz: Subscribe UUS and a sponsor will review it in due course.
[12:53] <Hobbsee> how many hours until DIF?
[12:53] <persia> mruiz: Subscribe the sponsors queue.  A sponsor will review, and either comment or approve.  If approved, it will be submitted to the archive admins for processing.
[12:53] <mruiz> thanks ScottK, persia
[12:53] <persia> Hobbsee: When is DIF in UTC?
[12:54]  * ScottK vote end of the day AET.
[12:54] <persia> If 12:00 (which I think is often), we're already past.
[12:54] <persia> ScottK: heh
[12:55]  * ScottK ponders a TZ data patch.
[12:55] <Hobbsee> oh, excellent!
[12:55] <persia> Hobbsee: Why?
[12:55] <Hobbsee> if i read persia's mail correctly anyway, there is no process apart from "a ubuntu-dev thinks it should be done.  do it"
[12:55]  * Hobbsee has an outstanding merge.
[12:55]  * Hobbsee likely has other stuff to take care of, too
[12:55] <persia> Hobbsee: That would be the policy, yes :)
[12:56] <persia> Hobbsee: On the other hand, you have to actually care if the merge/sync breaks something now.
[12:56] <Hobbsee> persia: sounds suspiciously like what i was suggestign for after feature freeze :)
[12:56] <Hobbsee> persia: don't we always?  those of us running hardy, anyway
[12:56] <geser> Kmos: I think you can't do anything about wink as this a binary which needs libexpat0 (current is libexpat1)
[12:57] <persia> Hobbsee: I don't think that's good for feature freeze.  I like "2 members of ~ubuntu-dev think it's a good idea, or it's just a bugfix" at that point.
[12:57] <Hobbsee> persia: that was my plan back in sevilla - it wasn't a current one.
[12:57] <persia> Hobbsee: No.  Before DIF, people tend only to care about installed packages, and NBS varies widely.
[12:57] <Hobbsee> persia: besides, the occupants of ubuntu-dev has changed, to the point where such a policy would not be good for the distribution
[12:58] <Hobbsee> persia: i care if a package i'm using stops working :)
[12:58] <persia> Erm.  I'm not sure I agree with that characterisation of newer members of ~ubuntu-dev, but I'm glad you've seen the light :)
[12:58] <persia> Hobbsee: Right, but now you have to also care if the package you updated breaks something else.
[12:59] <Hobbsee> well, duh :)
[12:59] <Hobbsee> persia: you mean that ubuntu-dev people don't have to anyway?
[12:59] <Hobbsee> even if it's only detected later
[12:59] <Hobbsee> if you've uploaded something a couple of months ago, and it's only just been found, then you still should care about it.
[13:00] <persia> Hobbsee: I don't think it's as important pre-DIF.  As an example, I think it's better to merge the new libraries, and chase NBS once most of the merges are done, rather than building a transition plan for each and every merge.
[13:00] <Hobbsee> oh, indeed.
[13:00] <persia> For the "couple months" case, it's never still be pre-DIF, so I'd agree with you.
[13:00] <Hobbsee> was thinking of exploding packages and the like, not general archive maintaince like NBS
[13:01]  * txwikinger2 wonders if he should inform MI5 about those exploding packages ;)
[13:02] <persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  Yes.  exploding packages (or even just those left unattended on the train) should be dealt with appropriately even pre-DIF
[13:03] <geser> txwikinger2: won't they put Hobbsee and persia to jail?
[13:03]  * Hobbsee randomly explodes persia then
[13:03] <txwikinger2> Nah... different jurisdiction :)
[13:04]  * persia goes boom after a 1 minute delay
[13:04]  * Hobbsee turns into Tim the Enchanter
[13:04]  * Hobbsee points, and explodes geser
[13:05]  * Hobbsee points, and explodes Kmos too
[13:05]  * Hobbsee turns txwikinger2 into a white rabbit.
[13:05]  * txwikinger2 has a very explosive personality today :D
[13:06] <ikonia> imbrandon: apologies I was away from my desk and I've missed your message, could you please repeat it
[13:06]  * txwikinger2 wants to be a multicultural rabbit
[13:06] <persia> txwikinger: What does fur color have to do with culture.
[13:06]  * Hobbsee puts txwikinger2rabbit through the wash
[13:06]  * persia gives txwikinger 2 different watches
[13:07]  * pochu joins the /me fun :)
[13:07] <txwikinger2> persia well nothing and everything... depends on who you ask :D
[13:24] <kagou> Hi
[13:25] <kagou> i'm searching information about packaging a project that use jam instead make
[13:29] <Hobbsee> kagou: search for packages that have a build dep of jam-related stuff
[13:29] <geser> kagou: supertux, trigger, lincity-ng build-depend on jam, perhaps looking at their packaging might help you
[13:29] <Hobbsee> ahh, i'ts supertux
[13:30] <kagou> great , i was searching for this packages :
[13:30] <kagou> :)
[13:30] <kagou> thns
[13:30] <kagou> thanks
[13:30] <Hobbsee> 8 choices, it appears
[13:41]  * Kmos implodes again
[13:43]  * geser fixes an other FTBFS bug due to bashism :(
[13:43] <Kmos> geser: and I can't patch wink to use pat1 instead of pat0 ?
[13:44] <geser> Kmos: wink is a binary provided by upstream
[13:45] <geser> upstream needs to rebuild it with libexpat1
[13:45] <Kmos> geser: so i'll bug upstream =)
[13:45] <Kmos> geser: thanks for your help
[13:48] <swisgard> hey guys, i have a question about ubuntu development.
[13:48] <geser> Kmos: it looks like there was a change in libexpat1 between gutsy and hardy
[13:49] <geser> Kmos: libexpat1 in gutsy has /usr/lib/libexpat.so.0 but the one in hardy
[13:49] <geser> swisgard: just ask
[13:49] <geser> Kmos: libexpat1 in gutsy has /usr/lib/libexpat.so.0 but not the one in hardy
[13:50] <swisgard> i come from Windows, where i did quite a bit of programming just randomly, but i've just recently come to Ubuntu, so i feel kinda of crippled, not being able to do things i know in linux you know, just becase i don't know linux :P
[13:50] <swisgard> but i would like to help with the development of ubuntu
[13:50] <Kmos> geser: that breaks it..
[13:50] <Kmos> :(
[13:50] <swisgard> but i have no idea how to get started
[13:50] <Kmos> geser: in hardy it points to .so.1 ?
[13:50] <imbrandon> swisgard: are you looking to program or package ?
[13:51] <swisgard> well, i don't know how to package, so i guess either
[13:51] <Kmos> !packaging | swisgard
[13:51] <ubotu> swisgard: The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
[13:51] <swisgard> ah, thanks
[13:51] <geser> Kmos: gutsy has /usr/lib/libexpat.so.0 and /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1 while hardy has only the second one (.1)
[13:51] <imbrandon> Kmos: ugh
[13:51] <Kmos> imbrandon: :-)
[13:51] <imbrandon> swisgard: anyhow we primarily handle pacaking in here, but for programing its vastly the same
[13:51] <Kmos> geser: thank you..
[13:52] <imbrandon> and vastly diffrent
[13:52] <imbrandon> Kmos: that "ugh" wasent a good one
[13:52] <swisgard> imbrandon, the programming is just handled in #ubuntu-devel or something, and this place is more packaging?
[13:52] <imbrandon> no the programing is handled mostly upstream
[13:52] <imbrandon> in diffrent projects like gnome or kde
[13:53] <imbrandon> mostly
[13:53] <imbrandon> and yes this and #ubuntu-devel are pacaking , just diffrent levels of it
[13:53] <swisgard> is there an IRC channel for the programming?
[13:53]  * persia notes that we do some bugfix programming as well
[13:54] <Kmos> imbrandon: i just tried to help.. sorry
[13:54] <imbrandon> swisgard: sure there are thousands, depending on the project
[13:54] <imbrandon> mostly you want to pick a project that intrests you
[13:54] <swisgard> ah, so its different channels that are just run by each project
[13:54] <imbrandon> yup
[13:54] <swisgard> its hard for me to get used to the idea of an open source community as well
[13:54] <swisgard> i like linux and the open source very much, i just feel kind of lost in it atm.
[13:55] <imbrandon> yea its hard to wrap your head arrround, honestly if your brand new, i sugest bugfixing for a distro and working your way back upstream
[13:55] <imbrandon> if thats what intrests you
[13:55] <swisgard> yeah sure, is this upstream from bugfixing (packaging)
[13:55] <imbrandon> that would be the lowest entry point
[13:56] <imbrandon> well kinda, never heard it put like that but yea
[13:57] <imbrandon> swisgard: so do you use ubuntu or kubuntu or another flavor?
[13:57] <swisgard> i use ubuntu, though i also have xubuntu installed.
[13:57] <zul> morning
[13:57] <swisgard> i just like gnome the best i think
[13:57] <swisgard> KDE doesn't really appeal to me
[13:57] <swisgard> hi zul
[13:58] <imbrandon> ok i cant eliborate on this greatly because i'm about to leave for a few hours but hree is what  would do in your shoes, and work up from there, install virtualbox and then install hardy inside that, use it and pick something small that bugs you, find if its been reported on launchpad.net as a bug ( something small to start off, not like the kernel )
[13:59] <imbrandon> and go from there ( asking in here as you go along )
[13:59] <swisgard> hardy is the beta version that is out right now?
[14:00] <imbrandon> its the development version yes, beta in the windows world and linux world mean very diffrent things
[14:00] <imbrandon> think of it more like Google, prepetual beta :)
[14:00] <swisgard> i see
[14:01] <swisgard> so all of the development is done on the beta, and the current version of the distro is left alone
[14:01] <Hobbsee> correct.
[14:01] <swisgard> and they are all implemented at periodic updates? or just in one big distro update
[14:01] <imbrandon> yes, except for major regressions or data loss, but that is much further down the road in your dev carreer
[14:01] <Hobbsee> the latter
[14:01] <persia> swisgard: Development is done on the development target, and the release is left alone.  The status of the release varies by package.
[14:02] <swisgard> i see
[14:02] <swisgard> well this is making things a little clearer :P
[14:02]  * persia notes there was a periodic update for Dapper, so there might be one for Hardy in the future, but this is very much a special case
[14:03] <imbrandon> it can be quite daunting for a new commer, all i can say is take baby bites, it may seem ultra small but things tend to expand more than you think
[14:03] <LucidFox> Indeed.
[14:03] <swisgard> cool
[14:03] <swisgard> i'll get virtualbox real quick
[14:04] <imbrandon> notes vmware or kvm or qemu would work also, i just personaly like virtualbox over the rest
[14:04] <imbrandon> for freenessa nd speed
[14:04] <imbrandon> freeness*
[14:04] <swisgard> ah
[14:05] <swisgard> the virtualbox-ose package
[14:05] <persia> Is virtualbox really faster than KVM? (assuming real KVM on the right hardware)
[14:05] <imbrandon> persia: if you have VT extensions its about the same, without them vbox is greatly faster
[14:06] <swisgard> alright, installing those necessary packages
[14:06] <imbrandon> swisgard: yea the -ose is "open source edition"
[14:06] <persia> imbrandon: makes sense.  qemu isn't so fast.
[14:06] <imbrandon> swisgard: they have a commercial and non-free edition but its largely not needed for this use case
[14:06] <imbrandon> only for server virtualization etc
[14:07] <swisgard> so i need to burn an iso for hardy
[14:07] <imbrandon> basicly if you have used vmware server you'll be at home with virtualbox, if not its pretty simple to pickup
[14:07] <swisgard> i haven't ever use anything virtual
[14:07] <swisgard> unless DSL counts
[14:08] <imbrandon> swisgard: you can use the iso to boot from directly without buringing, it can mount iso's directly as cdrom's
[14:08] <swisgard> ah
[14:08] <imbrandon> or you could use a gutsy install and upgrade it to hardy
[14:08] <imbrandon> if you already have a gutsy cd
[14:08] <swisgard> im on gutsy right now
[14:08] <swisgard> i have a gutsy cd right beside my laptop
[14:09] <effie_jayx> hello
[14:09] <swisgard> hi
[14:09] <imbrandon> that will work, just install that and dist upgrade , if your not familiar with that i'm sure someone could point you to a wiki or walk you through it, but with that i must run a few hours, gluck
[14:09] <imbrandon> later yall
[14:09] <swisgard> bye, thanks for the help
[14:13] <swisgard> anybody care to tell me how to get goin with this vbox
[14:13] <swisgard> i have a gutsy cd i'm just gonna use
[14:14] <persia> swisgard: You may find performance better using a .iso as a virtual CD, rather than a physical CD
[14:14] <swisgard> ah, alright
[14:15] <swisgard> guess i'll go download the ISO then :P
[14:15] <imbrandon> dd if=dev/cdrom of=~/Desktop/gutsy.iso
[14:15] <imbrandon> make your own ^^
[14:15] <imbrandon> dd if=/dev/cdrom of=~/Desktop/gutsy.iso
[14:15] <imbrandon> typo ^^
[14:16] <swisgard> neat, linux can rip ISOs? >:)
[14:16] <imbrandon> linux can do anything ;)
[14:16] <swisgard> i mean, windows can rip ISOs, but it doesn't equipped with that ability
[14:17] <imbrandon> it dosent come with office and bunch of other things too, welcome to Ubuntu :)
[14:17] <imbrandon> ok i'm really gone bbiab
[14:18] <swisgard> persia, am i executing dd in the VM or my own at the moment?
[14:18] <swisgard> well, i guess it'll have to be in my own right now
[14:18] <swisgard> because the VM has nothing installed.
[14:19] <persia> swisgard: I'm not a virtualbox user, but I'd suggest building the iso on the base system, and pointing virtualbox to the iso as a virtual CD when you boot, and use it to install a virtual environment.
[14:19] <swisgard> you use kvm?
[14:20] <persia> swisgard: I use a collection of chroots (I used to use VMs, but I stopped caring as much about protecting my base system).
[14:20] <effie_jayx> I have been talking to the debian mantainer about smc http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/smc.html, I wanted to merge a new version to ubuntu
[14:21] <swisgard> how long does an ISO rip typically take
[14:21] <effie_jayx> however he claims that one of the suggestions the last person that merged it for ubuntu was that one of the depends was a dev file
[14:21] <imbrandon> depending on cdrom speed ~10 minutes
[14:21] <persia> swisgard: That's entirely hardware dependent.  Between 2 and 74 minutes.
[14:22] <nixternal> imbrandon: you get my message about the dude with the puters?
[14:22] <imbrandon> nixternal: yup yup
[14:22] <swisgard> the sticker on my computer actually doesn't tell what speed it is.
[14:22] <effie_jayx> do you think it is worth it for me to merge that package
[14:22] <swisgard> doesn't say on the drive either
[14:22] <swisgard> oh well, thats what i get for having a laptop
[14:22] <imbrandon> swisgard: here is a tutoral about install ubuntu in vbox on windows, the ui is the same for linux
[14:22] <imbrandon> http://www.simplehelp.net/2007/05/13/how-to-install-ubuntu-studio-in-windows-using-virtualbox-a-complete-walkthrough/
[14:23] <effie_jayx> considering that the dependencies have not changed and it was one of the suggestions the last merger did ?
[14:23] <imbrandon> swisgard: e.g. ignore the windows specific stuff, the vbox screenshots and such are the same on linux
[14:23] <swisgard> interesting, the ISO is 730MB, when you download it from ubuntu its 699MB
[14:23] <persia> effie_jayx: It sounds like a communications confusion in the past (which is part of why it's nice to use the BTS to communicate with Debian maintainers).  Personally, I agree with Debian bug #454679, but it depends on why the -dev was added.
[14:23] <ubotu> Debian bug 454679 in smc "smc: binary package should not depend on *-dev packages" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/454679
[14:24] <imbrandon> swisgard: the makeshift dd command i gave you dosent make an iso compliant image, but one that will work with a emulator or can be burned again
[14:25] <mruiz> ping dholbach
[14:25] <imbrandon> there are better tools to make "true" iso's like mkisofs etc
[14:25] <geser> effie_jayx: smc was synced today
[14:25] <imbrandon> but that one will work for what you need
[14:25] <persia> effie_jayx: I don't see anything in the smc changelog that would indicate the reasoning behind the dependency.
[14:25] <effie_jayx> persia,  the debian mantainer is a friend of mine
[14:25] <effie_jayx> and he claims he should work on it over the holidays
[14:26] <geser> persia: bug #136435
[14:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136435 in smc "smc - Secret Maryo Chronicles - unmet dependency in Gutsy" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/136435
[14:26] <persia> geser: That's a shlibs bug in libcegui-mk2-1
[14:27] <swisgard> how much RAM do you suggest giving to the VM
[14:27] <swisgard> i have 1gb
[14:28] <swisgard> it recommends 256, but that sounds like it'll run slow
[14:28] <imbrandon> 256 minimum, 512 max
[14:28] <swisgard> k
[14:28] <persia> swisgard: The more you give it, the better it will run.  On the other hand, the less you keep, the slower you will be.  I think 384 is a good balance for your setup.
[14:29] <geser> persia: yes, it's a bug somewhere, but till it is fixed smc seems to need the dependency on the -dev package :(
[14:30] <persia> geser: Why not just fix libcegui?  smc is the only rdepends, which is why a patch to smc works, but the next client will also be broken.
[14:30] <geser> persia: I haven't checked what exactly is the problem
[14:31] <persia> geser: The library isn't pushing version information to clients, and also not providing a symbolic link for unversioned clients.
[14:31] <persia> Installing -dev works because it includes the symbolic link, not because of the headers.
[14:33] <persia> effie_jayx: If you'd like to play with libraries, this might be a good way to start.  The risk of affecting multiple packages is very low.
[14:36] <swisgard> VirtualBox kernel driver not installed. The vboxdrv kernel module was either not loaded or /dev/vboxdrv was not created for some reason. Please install the virtualbox-ose-modules package for your kernel and execute '/etc/init.d/vboxdrv start' as root.
[14:36] <swisgard> that happens after i set everything up and tried to start it
[14:41] <swisgard> Package virtualbox-ose-modules is a virtual package provided by:
[14:41] <swisgard>   virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-server 6
[14:41] <swisgard>   virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-generic 6
[14:41] <swisgard> You should explicitly select one to install.
[14:42] <swisgard> im guessing generic?
[14:42] <dholbach> mruiz: pong
[14:43] <soren> swisgard: "echo virtualbox-ose-modules-$(uname -r)" will tell you :)
[14:43] <persia> swisgard: Depends on which kernel you have installed, but yes, likely -generic
[14:43] <swisgard> yep,
[14:43] <swisgard> what exactly was that $(uname -r) i just did?
[14:44] <persia> swisgard: It prints the kernel-release.  man uname for the other options;
[14:45] <swisgard> virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-generic is already the newest version.
[14:45] <swisgard> virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.22-14-generic set to manual installed.
[14:45] <swisgard> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
[14:45] <swisgard>   libgsf-gnome-1-114 libboost-thread1.34.1 libboost-date-time1.34.1
[14:45] <swisgard> Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
[14:45] <swisgard> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[14:45] <swisgard> moogle@nowhere:~$
[14:46] <persia> swisgard: Strange.  Also, you likely want to use a pastebin (e.g. paste.ubuntu.com) when sending a bunch of stuff, or we'll complain about flooding.
[14:46] <mruiz> dholbach, I don't understand your suggestions. About debhelper change do you think that I should add the comment to the changelog?
[14:46] <swisgard> ah, ok
[14:47] <swisgard> but yeah..it tells me i don't have it, then tells me its there and current?
[14:47] <soren> swisgard: Do you have access to /dev/vbox?
[14:47] <dholbach> mruiz: I'd probably drop it, it adds no worth
[14:47] <swisgard> no such directory it says
[14:47] <swisgard> er, it'll be virtualbox eh
[14:48] <swisgard> actually i just did ls /dev and it really isn't there, nothing about virtualbox
[14:49] <mruiz> dholbach, but are you talking about the changelog only?
[14:49] <man-di> swisgard: is the vboxdrv kernel module loaded? Check with lsmod.
[14:50] <swisgard> no
[14:50] <dholbach> mruiz: about the actual changes
[14:50] <mruiz> dholbach, ok
[14:50] <man-di> swisgard: thats your problem, try modprobe vboxdrv as root and be happy
[14:52] <swisgard> ergh
[14:52] <swisgard> now its telling me i don't have write access to /dev/vboxdrv and that i should add myself to the group
[14:53] <man-di> swisgard: your user need to be in vboxusers group obviously
[14:53] <persia> swisgard: It's progress :)  Might take a few more steps, but should be ready soon.
[14:54] <mruiz> dholbach, about debhelper version : why we should preserve Debian suggestion  (>> 4.2.13) instead of Ubuntu (>= 5) ?
[14:54] <swisgard> man-di, yeah, i gathered that but i don't know how to do it
[14:55] <dholbach> mruiz: because if we stick to debian's change, we have to merge less in the future
[14:55] <dholbach> mruiz: a higher debhelper build-depends doesn't earn us anything
[14:55] <swisgard> i just did it, actually
[14:55] <swisgard> nvm
[14:55] <swisgard> i need to logout and back in, brb
[14:55]  * zul is evil 
[14:56]  * persia notes that sometimes bumping debhelper is useful: check the changelog to see if you need a certain feature in a newer one: this makes backports not break.
[14:56] <persia> (but likely not in this case)
[14:59] <swisgard> its still telling me i dont have write access
[15:00] <soren> swisgard: You need to be a member of the vbox group.
[15:01] <soren> swisgard: Oh, you already did that.
[15:01] <soren> swisgard: What does "id" say?
[15:01] <swisgard> uid=1000(moogle) gid=1000(swisgard) groups=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),104(scanner),108(lpadmin),110(admin),115(netdev),117(powerdev),120(vboxusers),1000(swisgard)
[15:04] <mruiz> dholbach, why debian/compat didn't appear as conflict if debian/ubuntu versions are different?
[15:05] <dholbach> mruiz: the change doesn't get us much - we can stick with the debian change
[15:08] <mok0> ping
[15:09] <persia> mok0: You need to preface with "!" to get an automated response.  Otherwise, we might just ignore you :)
[15:10] <mok0> hehe
[15:10] <mok0> I need someone to merge & upload bug 173321
[15:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173321 in maxima "Please merge maxima_5.13.0-2 from debian" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173321
[15:11] <swisgard> so nobody has a stab at why my vbox isn't working?
[15:11] <man-di> swisgard: sorry, jsut works here after loading kernel modul and adding user to group
[15:11] <soren> swisgard: It's not really on topic for this channel, you know..
[15:12] <swisgard> it started out on topic, as i was installing for development of hardy
[15:12] <mok0> Shocking to discover that merge ends today!
[15:13] <persia> swisgard: Certainly.  Unfortunately, nobody who knows well is both around, and bored enough to hunt down the answer.  You might get luck in a support channel, or from reading the documentation.  Sorry about that.
[15:13] <persia> mok0: Shocking?  How so?
[15:14] <mok0> I thought we had much more time, since release date is in april
[15:15] <persia> mok0: Ah.  There's basically four phases to development.  The first (just completed) involves grabbing all the updates we can from everywhere as a basis for the next release.  The second (just starting) involves integrating it all to make something reasonable (which may involve updates from other sources), and lasts until Feature Freeze (mid-February).
[15:16] <mok0> ... but there are still many packages from Sid that have not been merged...?
[15:17] <persia> The third involves trying to fix all the bugs and make sure everything is stable, and lasts until Beta Freeze (late March I think).  The fourth, and final phase involves chasing down the remaining release blocking issues.
[15:18] <mok0> We can still upload new packages, right?
[15:18] <persia> mok0: Less than 1% of the shared package volume remains unmerged, and maybe 5% of the variance.  We're running a little behind.  Just starting the freeze doesn't mean we have to stop merging, just that we should be a little more selective.
[15:18] <michael14486> how can i easily packadge shell scripts
[15:18] <persia> Yes, new packages are still welcome (until Feature Freeze)
[15:19] <persia> michael14486: CDBS + debhelper + package.install
[15:20] <michael14486> sorry persia: i have no idea what that means.
[15:20] <mok0> persia: I have one merge pending, I hope to be able to do it tonite
[15:20] <mok0> persia: one beside maxima, that is
[15:21] <persia> mok0: Excellent.  You're doing better than I: I still have quite a few (mostly I was waiting for syncs), and don't expect to finish until this weekend.
[15:21] <mruiz> dholbach, I'm recovering dirs file (from debian package)
[15:21] <mok0> persia: do you need an exception, then?
[15:23] <persia> michael14486: I'm not finding a good example package.  There is an explanation of CDBS in the packaging guide, and for shell scripts, you'd only need a one-line debian/rules.  For information about debian/package.install, man dh_install.
[15:23] <geser> persia: are you going to merge neverball? my name is on it but you have done the changes (I only fixed the maintainer field and sponsored it).
[15:23] <persia> mok0: Yep.  I'll need to convince a member of ~ubuntu-dev (me) that I should upload them.
[15:24] <persia> geser: I think all the fixes are in the Games Team SVN.  I'm more than happy to take a look at it, and either get a sync, or upload it.
[15:24] <geser> thanks
[15:34] <mruiz> dholbach, I finished with the changes... I'm preparing the new debdiffs
[15:37] <kagou> i have some problems with my rules
[15:38] <kagou> i'm trying to copy bin from ./bin to destination but my rule is not good :
[15:38] <kagou> 	cp bin/* $(CURDIR)/$(PACKAGE)usr/bin/
[15:39] <persia> kagou: You likely want "install -m 0644 bin/* $(CURDIR)/$(PACKAGE)/usr/bin/" (note the extra '/').  You may also benefit from the use of dh_install.
[15:39] <kagou> should i create dirs before ?
[15:39] <dholbach> mruiz: nice - I'll be away for a call - either wait for me to read the mail or just ask here in the channel
[15:39] <persia> kagou: Yes.  Either with install -d or dh_installdirs
[15:40] <dholbach> mruiz: we have people here who know much more about packaging than I do
[15:40] <kagou> oh ! ok, nice, thanks persia
[15:40] <mruiz> hahaha
[15:47] <mruiz> persia, I'm preparing a merge. if Debian version uses standards-version 3.5.9, is a problem to keep it in Ubuntu (delta will be lower) ? ... time ago someone update it in Ubuntu
[15:48] <persia> mruiz: You'll get best advice from asking the channel generally.  The answer depends on why the standards version was incremented, and for what gain.  I typically find such changes of little import, but if the package had some significant change to match a new policy, and that was important, it's worth leaving it as a note.
[15:51] <mruiz> but if Debian build the package with this version, I think that Hardy would not have problems
[15:54] <persia> mruiz: Standards-Version: is not about building, it's about policy compliance.  Anything less than 3.7.3 is currently a bug, but most of them are such minor bugs, it's not important.  If the policy was bumped for the sake of bumping policy, it's not worth the diff.  If the policy was bumped because the package was transitioned to support a change in policy, than it's worth keeping it to indicate that that package has been transitioned.
[15:59] <Mahoru`Tsunemi> hello
[16:00] <Mahoru`Tsunemi> anyone can indicates me where i can find a howto to build a packages with no sources (python scripts for exemple)
[16:01] <swisgard> i don't know if this covers it or not
[16:01] <swisgard> but its the official ubuntu guide to packaging?
[16:01] <swisgard> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
[16:05] <Mahoru`Tsunemi> i think of this howto describe a build of packages with source
[16:07] <persia> Mahoru`Tsunemi: Python packages have source, they just don't compile at build-time.  The guide swisgard indicated id a good place to start, but you may also want to read http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy
[16:08] <Mahoru`Tsunemi> i think i will post on an french forum, i think i will understand a little better ;)
[16:09] <Mahoru`Tsunemi> (and the package i will make is only for me, automatisation of the setup of my printer or my python scripts)
[16:09]  * persia wonders if anyone remembers the name of the channel that used to provide french packaging advice, and whether it is currently active
[16:10] <persia> Mahoru`Tsunemi: If you're only installing a couple of scripts, you can probably get by with just using dh_install.  I tend to recommend a 1-line debian/rules based on CDBS and including debhelper for this type of package.
[16:10] <Mahoru`Tsunemi> (if my memory is good, there isn't, there is a french classroom to learn creating packages(so there is school time ;) ))
[16:11] <persia> Mahoru`Tsunemi: I'll trust you on that then :)  I only heard about it a couple times several months ago.
[16:11] <Mahoru`Tsunemi> :)
[16:16] <swisgard> ughh, the install program window won't resize vertically, and the bottom of it goes off the screen in my VM :(
[16:17] <persia> swisgard: Annoyingly, you'll need to set the VM to at least 1024x768.  I think I heard something about this being targeted for hardy.
[16:17] <swisgard> the resolution will only go to 640xsomething or 800x600 on the virtual ubuntu
[16:19] <swisgard> you were talking about changing the resolution inside ubuntu right?
[16:19] <swisgard> or is it a virtualbox setting
[16:20] <persia> swisgard: I don't know virtualbox, but for many VMs, it's a configurable setting in the VM management program.
[16:35] <bddebian> Heya gang
[16:35] <LucidFox> Can a GPL program ship with GFDL documentation?
[16:36] <swisgard> bddebian, you just reminded me of Freddy from Scooby-Doo
[16:36] <persia> LucidFox: In Ubuntu, yes, as long as debian/copyright is clear.
[16:36] <LucidFox> And in Debian, no?
[16:37] <persia> LucidFox: I think in Debian, only for multiverse, but I've not been following that issue closely.
[16:37] <bddebian> swisgard: :-)
[16:37] <bddebian> Debian has multiverse now? ;-P
[16:37] <persia> Err s/multiverse/non-free/
[16:38]  * persia goes back to data parsing, in the hopes of sleeping soon, and with no small amount of shame
[16:38] <LucidFox> It's about gtkpod - I'm pushing some usability patches upstream, and I'm trying to convince them to include help - a possible source of which is their wiki
[16:39]  * bddebian hugs persia
[16:39] <dfiloni> anyone can do the resync of the keys?
[16:39] <persia> dfiloni: Sure.  Takes about half an hour
[16:39] <dfiloni> persia: thanks :)
[16:40] <dfiloni> persia: do you know why flashplugin-nonfree for gutsy is not upgraded?
[16:40] <dfiloni> persia: it doesn't work
[16:41] <geser> Hi bddebian
[16:41] <persia> dfiloni: In progress.  Search for the bug.  Also, you'll get a better answer if you ask generally, rather than targeting a specific person (I don't know much about it, because I don't care, because I don't use the package)
[16:41] <dfiloni> persia: thanks
[16:41] <LucidFox> could someone work on bug #172755 for kipi-plugins? It's a simple transition rebuild, and only one package out of six remains
[16:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 172755 in tripod "Rebuild for libgpod2 -> libgpod3 transition" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172755
[16:42] <persia> LucidFox: Add a rebuild debdiff, and subscribe the sponsors if nobody grabs it.
[16:42] <geser> dfiloni: IIRC there is some work in progress for an update of flashplugin-nonfree for gutsy
[16:42] <persia> (where "rebuild debdiff" means "only change the changelog")
[16:43] <dfiloni> geser: ok thanks
[16:44] <LucidFox> as for GFDL in Debian: on #debian-mentors, I've just been told that it's allowed as long as there are no invariant sections
[16:44] <geser> dfiloni: see bug #173890
[16:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173890 in flashplugin-nonfree "flashplugin-nonfree fails to install... new version?" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173890
[16:45] <dfiloni> geser: I'm seeing
[16:47] <dfiloni> geser: ok, it's only curiosity, thanks :)
[16:47] <bddebian> Heya geser
[16:57] <persia> dfiloni: keyring updated
[16:57] <dfiloni> persia: thanks
[17:10] <swisgard> persia, i have gutsy updating on the VM. how do i go about putting it up to hardy?
[17:11] <persia> swisgard: dist-upgrade (and see my comments above about asking specific individuals)
[17:18] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[17:20] <bddebian> Heya DarkSun88
[17:20] <DarkSun88> Hi Barry :)
[17:21] <tonyyarusso> I can't seem to install Banshee on Gutsy anymore - dependencies conflict.  Anyone familiar with that?
[17:23] <AstralJava> Just tried, and none here. What conflicts with what?
[17:24] <tonyyarusso> AstralJava: It seems to be a chain of things...  First, banshee depends on libmono1.0-cil (>= 1.2.4) but it is not going to be installed
[17:25] <imbrandon> sounds like some non-official repo problems, seems fine here
[17:25] <imbrandon> on the us mirror
[17:25] <AstralJava> Same here, on a swedish mirror.
[17:25] <tonyyarusso> libmono1.0-cil depends on libmono-system-web1.0-cil (>= 1.0)
[17:25] <tonyyarusso> Hmm
[17:25] <tonyyarusso> This is a fresh install with no non-official repos, University of Minnesota mirror
[17:25]  * tonyyarusso tries the main archive
[17:26] <AstralJava> I should think it works then.
[17:26] <imbrandon> try enabling backports, someone may have botched something
[17:26] <tonyyarusso> 'k
[17:27]  * persia suggests turning on -updates before -backports: most cases of dependency issues should go to -updates rather than -backports, and -backports gets a lot of other things as well.
[17:28] <tonyyarusso> persia: -updates is enabled by default
[17:28] <imbrandon> persia: updates is on by default
[17:28] <persia> Yes, but sometimes it doesn't get refreshed cleanly on a default install.  Never mind.
[17:28] <AstralJava> Well I don't have backports enabled, and it worked without a hitch.
[17:28]  * tonyyarusso is hoping to blame the mirror
[17:28] <imbrandon> persia: ahh
[17:28] <tonyyarusso> Easiest to fix :)
[17:29] <tonyyarusso> Too bad I didn't take care of this when I had a fast internet connection
[17:30] <AstralJava> It was only about 4.5MB of downloading for me.
[17:30] <AstralJava> With all dependencies. I might have had some of them earlier, though.
[17:30] <AstralJava> This batch included 9 packages.
[17:39] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: would you mind doing some apt-cache show and policy stuff on the US repo so I can figure out what's going on?
[17:39]  * tonyyarusso is having no luck at all
[17:44] <tonyyarusso> This might be why: libmono-system-web1.0-cil depends mono-jit (< 1.2.5) but 1.2.5.1-2ubuntu1 is to be installed
[17:44] <AstralJava> You have -backports enabled?
[17:45] <AstralJava> mono-jit:
[17:45] <AstralJava>   Installed: 1.2.4-6ubuntu6.1
[17:45] <tonyyarusso> Oh dear lord...you must be kidding me.
[17:45] <tonyyarusso> Um, does apt just install the newest one it finds in /var/cache/apt/archives/ rather than the one actually listed in the sources.list fetch?
[17:46] <AstralJava> I could, but I'm not. :)
[17:46] <AstralJava> What does apt-cache policy tell you?
[17:46] <tonyyarusso> apt-cache policy mono-jit: Installed 1.2.5.1-2ubuntu1, Candidate 1.2.5.1-2ubuntu1
[17:46] <tonyyarusso> That's the version in Hardy.
[17:47] <tonyyarusso> I have a dual-boot of Gutsy and Hardy, and share the /var between them.
[17:47] <tonyyarusso> I thought apt was smarter than that....
[17:47] <AstralJava> If it's a candidate, I assume it does install the latest one.
[17:48] <tonyyarusso> It shouldn't be a candidate though, because that's not what the sources.list specifies.  It merely happens to have that version cached on disk.
[17:48] <tonyyarusso> Well, that would explain it I guess.  :(
[17:48] <tonyyarusso> It's okay though - this is a disposable installation right now, so I can just reinstall without much hair-tearing :)
[17:50] <tonyyarusso> The only real reason I shared the /var was for things like apache, but I suppose I could accomplish the same thing with symlinks just as well.
[17:50] <swisgard> argh, vbox updated the ubuntu installation and everything...but something messed up, because i was playing with Appearances. and now it logs in and just stays at that brown loading screen on my VM :(
[17:52] <AstralJava> Hmm... isn't the dpkg database inside /var ?
[17:53] <persia> AstralJava: Yes.
[17:53] <tonyyarusso> AstralJava: yeah...I'm an idiot.
[17:53] <persia> tonyyarusso: You might want to experiment with /srv/
[17:53] <AstralJava> If you're sharing that structure, then dpkg is bound to be b0rked.
[17:53] <AstralJava> ::)
[17:53] <tonyyarusso> persia: fair point
[17:53] <AstralJava> tonyyarusso: Not implying you are. :) Just thinking out loud here. :)
[17:54] <tonyyarusso> AstralJava: Forget you implying - I'm declaring!
[17:55] <AstralJava> tonyyarusso:  :D
[17:55] <tonyyarusso> Maybe I should file a bug report actually - "dpkg should file database by source", or some such.
[17:56] <AstralJava> I think it just comes down to dpkg being the backend, and not worrying about sources and such.
[17:56] <tonyyarusso> That makes sense.
[17:57] <tonyyarusso> well, class is over, so I'm out
[18:03] <imbrandon> geser: yea i uploaded them to -proposed they should be building soon
[18:03] <imbrandon> https://edge.launchpad.net/~imbrandon/+packages the last four "Uploaded" packages
[18:03] <imbrandon> for dapper , edgy , feisty and gutsy
[18:04] <broonie> tonyyarusso: apt doesn't use the contents of /var/cache/apt/archives unless they're in the Packages file.
[18:05] <AstralJava> broonie: I think he realized already that having apt-get updated with hardy sources brought upon the confusion.
[18:23] <LucidFox> Is DIF in effect?
[18:28] <imbrandon> not for 24 more hours
[18:43] <mruiz> ping TheMuso
[18:43] <jeromeg> ScottK: heelo, do you know why ubuntu backporters aren't suscribed to Gutssy backports ?
[18:43] <jeromeg> *gutsy
[18:50] <imbrandon> jeromeg: jdong will have to fix that, hi mistake
[18:50] <imbrandon> his*
[18:50] <jeromeg> imbrandon: ok thank you
[18:51] <jeromeg> imbrandon: you are a member of ubuntu-backporters ?
[18:51] <imbrandon> yes
[18:51] <imbrandon> there is only 4 of us iirc
[18:51] <imbrandon> :)
[18:52] <jeromeg> imbrandon: i recently submitted a *lot* of backports, all of which i tested carefully
[18:53] <jeromeg> imbrandon: could you please have a look if you have some time ?
[18:53] <jeromeg> it's both in feisty and gutsy
[18:53] <imbrandon> jeromeg: ok, i'll get to the backport queue today sometime, i trust you attached all the relevant info , build logs and such ?
[18:54] <jeromeg> imbrandon: i did not attach build logs, i was never asked to show them in the past
[18:54] <jeromeg> imbrandon: but i can say it builds without error, i tested everything
[18:55] <jeromeg> or i wouldn't have asked for a backport :)
[18:58] <imbrandon> jeromeg: ok, normaly if one is not a MOTU they are asked to put a pbuilder log on the bug, but no worries its not required
[18:59] <jeromeg> imbrandon: i'm not a motu, not yet :), but i've already helped the backport team and i've already done some (little) packaging in gutsy and hardy
[19:02] <mruiz> I'm looking for a review... bug #160601
[19:02] <bab> out of interest, are the chances good or bad of getting a merge through before the import freeze?
[19:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160601 in hardware-monitor "Please merge hardware-monitor-1.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160601
[19:02] <imbrandon> bab: depends on the merge
[19:03] <bab> #175725, big package but trivial diff.  i maintain it in debina but i'm not a regular ubuntu person
[19:03] <imbrandon> malone #175725
[19:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175725 in regina-normal "Please merge regina-normal (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175725
[19:03] <imbrandon> bab: okies, i'll look in a few
[19:03] <bab> imbrandon: many thanks
[19:04] <apachelogger_> Lutin: pling pling
[19:04] <Lutin> apachelogger_: pong
[19:05] <joejaxx> grr :( why does everyone do that digest, volume 2, Encyclopedia Britainica 2 on the mailing list?
[19:05] <apachelogger_> Lutin: you saied something about projectm?
[19:05] <Lutin> apachelogger_: no, about filelight
[19:05] <apachelogger_> oh, right :P
[19:05] <apachelogger_> Lutin: so, what did explode? ;-)
[19:06] <jeromeg> got to go
[19:06] <jeromeg> bye
[19:07] <Lutin> apachelogger_: nothing, I'd just like to have your input as you previously merged it. seems like a sync to me (the manpages are different, though)
[19:07] <Lutin> but I assume you know it better than me :)
[19:10] <apachelogger_> Lutin: hehe, that was all messy
[19:10] <apachelogger_> actually I thought debian wanted to sync from us, though that never happend apparently
[19:11] <apachelogger_> Lutin: anyway, I think you just need to merge the desktop file patch in
[19:12] <apachelogger_> and get debian to include a patch so we can just sync for future versions
[19:13] <Lutin> apachelogger_: it's a typo fix ?
[19:15] <apachelogger_> Lutin: well, sort of important typo - 'Generic Name=' vs. 'GenericName='
[19:16] <apachelogger_> ScottK: can you please have a look at bug #175952
[19:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175952 in gutsy-backports "Please backport libprojectm 1.01-2 from Hardy to Gutsy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175952
[19:17] <Lutin> apachelogger_: seems that debian actually included the patch
[19:17] <apachelogger_> oh
[19:17] <apachelogger_> indeed
[19:17]  * apachelogger_ should read more careful
[19:18] <imbrandon> mruiz: looks good, i'm uploading your diff now
[19:18] <apachelogger_> Lutin: so just syncing should be enough
[19:18] <Lutin> apachelogger_: ok
[19:18] <mruiz> thanks imbrandon :-) ... my first merge
[19:21] <mruiz> how is the procedure if a package in Debian has mozilla-firefox as Build-depends? (modify it to firefox ?)
[19:23] <mok0> mruiz: Isn't there a virtual package you can depend on? x-www-browser?
[19:23] <mruiz> mok0, mozilla-firefox | www-browser
[19:24] <mok0> mruiz: www-browser is a text-oriented browser AFAIK
[19:24] <mok0> x-www-browser | www-browser would be better
[19:25] <mruiz> mok0, a guy changed mozilla-firefox to firefox (it was a merge)
[19:26] <mok0> mruiz: that's not a generic browser
[19:26] <mok0> mruiz:  but what do I know?
[19:26] <mruiz> firefox | www-browser
[19:27] <mok0> mruiz: what if the user only wants konqueror?
[19:27] <imbrandon> you shouldent build depend on a generic browser
[19:27] <imbrandon> it probably uses the xul stuff
[19:27] <mruiz> www-browser: virtual package provided by  amaya, chimera2, dillo, elinks, elinks-lite, elvis, elvis-console, epiphany-browser, epiphany-gecko, epiphany-webkit, galeon, iceape-browser, icedove, iceweasel, kazehakase, konqueror, links, links2, lynx, lynx-cur, netrik, netsurf, w3-el-e21, w3m, w3mmee, xemacs21-gnome-mule, xemacs21-gnome-mule-canna-wnn, xemacs21-gnome-nomule, xemacs21-mule, xemacs21-mule-canna-wnn, xemacs21-nomule
[19:28] <mok0> mruiz: look for x-www-browser....
[19:28] <mok0> imbrandon: why can't you depend on a virtual package?
[19:28] <imbrandon> no no no, this is a BUILD-depend
[19:29] <imbrandon> e.g. it probably uses something firefox specific
[19:29] <mok0> imbrandon: whatever
[19:29] <imbrandon> whatever?
[19:29] <mok0> imbrandon: whatever == depends | build-depends
[19:29] <Ubulette> should be firefox-dev or better, xulrunner-1.9-dev (hardy)
[19:29] <kagou> i need help on using dh_install. i'm packaging from scratch a package using jam. in rules : install i chmod +x a jam script that install all binaries under a bin/ directory under the src directory (if i'm under /src when i'm building, src/bin is created and binaries are put in). i'v made a package.install with "package/bin/* /usr/bin" but this is not working
[19:29] <imbrandon> mok0: there is a big diffrence
[19:30] <imbrandon> e.g. konqueror dosent provide the xul stuffs
[19:30] <imbrandon> but firefox does, are you CERTAIN it dosent need the xul
[19:30] <mok0> imbrandon: ok
[19:31] <mok0> imbrandon: but the dependency was: firefox | www-browser
[19:32] <imbrandon> dep or build-dep, the first question was build-dep
[19:32] <Ubulette> build-dep must be something-dev
[19:32] <imbrandon> Ubulette: not in firefoxes case
[19:33] <mok0> firefox-dev? :-)
[19:33] <imbrandon> and not in poor packaged software
[19:33] <mruiz> imbrandon, mok0 ... sorry, but it was a mistake ... firefox stuff was in Suggests
[19:33] <Ubulette> if you need headers or idls to build, then you need -dev
[19:34] <imbrandon> anyhow my main point was see WHY something is done, if you know why you know th options
[19:34] <LaserJock> Ubulette: not always
[19:34] <imbrandon> Ubulette: sure if the package is properly split out
[19:34] <imbrandon> but thats not the case always
[19:34] <Ubulette> if ff2 is not properly split, file a bug, mozillateam wqill fix it
[19:35] <mok0> mruiz: we're off in a tagent universe
[19:35] <imbrandon> Ubulette: zomg, ok it wasent for ages due to the wy upstream handled certain things, ther are exceptions to everything
[19:35] <mok0> s/tagent/tangent
[19:36]  * imbrandon goes to do something usefull like merges, anyhow make sure you know why something is there before changing it was the whole thing
[19:36] <imbrandon> and build-dep != dep
[19:36] <mok0> imbrandon: it is in suggests:
[19:36] <mok0> :)
[19:37] <ikonia> imbrandon: how did the push go ?
[19:37] <imbrandon> mok0: rocking, same applies , know why it was there, but diffrent options are avail at this point, and really there is no need to change a sugest in ubuntu , that should be filed upstream in debians bts
[19:37] <imbrandon> ikonia: its uploaded to -proposed , not built yet, keep an eye out for it
[19:37] <ikonia> will do
[19:37] <imbrandon> ikonia: for all supported releases
[19:38] <mok0> cat imbrandon-reply > mruiz
[19:38] <ikonia> imbrandon: no pressure, just been at work so didn't know if everything had gone well
[19:38] <imbrandon> :)
[19:38] <ikonia> imbrandon: I have a 6.06 6.10, 7.04 and 7.10 build waiting
[19:38] <mruiz> thanks mok0
[19:38] <imbrandon> K
[19:38] <ikonia> imbrandon: the bug will get feedback quickly
[19:38] <imbrandon> rockin
[19:38] <mok0> mruiz: it was a good discussion
[19:39] <imbrandon> ikonia: you can see the links to them in LP via my "uploaded" section on https://launchpad.net/~imbrandon/+packages to see when they build
[19:40] <ikonia> imbrandon: didn't know that, thank you
[19:40] <LaserJock> bah, any of you guys know how to change xorg.conf these days?
[19:40] <ikonia> imbrandon: still getting to grips with launchpad over tools like bugzilla and trac
[19:41] <imbrandon> see where it says "not yet built" ?
[19:41] <imbrandon> beside those 4 uplaods
[19:42] <imbrandon> once souyuz gets to it it will say something like "none"
[19:43] <imbrandon> and you'll be able to get the debs directly from ...
[19:43] <imbrandon> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/9.0.115.0ubuntu0.X.XX
[19:43] <imbrandon> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/9.0.115.0ubuntu0.7.10
[19:43] <imbrandon> like
[19:43] <imbrandon> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/9.0.115.0ubuntu0.6.06
[19:43] <imbrandon> etc
[19:43] <imbrandon> or by using -proposed
[19:43] <imbrandon> as a sources.list repo
[19:44] <imbrandon> ikonia: ^^
[19:44] <ikonia> got the proposed repo in ;)
[19:44] <ikonia> ready and waiting
[19:44] <imbrandon> k
[19:45] <ikonia> imbrandon: again, thanks for your prompt response, its already made a difference as I can now give accureate info and people accept it better than "I don't know"
[19:46] <imbrandon> by the time it builds and such i'll likely be asleep, so i'll check the bug tomarrow for comments
[19:46] <imbrandon> np :)
[19:47] <imbrandon> pitti said for this we only need one "it works" for each release to migrate to -updates since its a fairly common update we;ve been doing for 2 years now ( the md5 update )
[19:47] <imbrandon> just fyi
[20:03] <jdong> Dear World: I will continue to disappear from the face of this planet for the remainder of this week up to Wednesday of next week pending MIT final exam season. I love you all. PS If you see Santa tell him not to use FedEx for any of my gifts.
[20:04] <LaserJock> jdong: I'll tell him to use USPS
[20:21] <ScottK> Hola.
[20:21] <mruiz> hola ScottK
[20:22] <ScottK> Heya mruiz.
[20:22] <mruiz> ScottK, learning Spanish?
[20:22] <ScottK> mruiz: No.  Just felt like it for some reason.
[20:23] <ScottK> I was in Peru last year for a trip and picked up a few bits.
[20:23] <mruiz> :-)
[20:23] <mruiz> ScottK, next time you should visit Chile too :-)
[20:23] <ScottK> The Good news: I got my package update sponsored in Debian.  The bad news: One day after DIF.
[20:23] <ScottK> mruiz: Actually I hope to.
[20:24] <ScottK> mruiz: Maybe next year.  I'm not certain.
[20:27] <mruiz> ScottK, do you have time to review a merge?
[20:28] <mruiz> bug #175966
[20:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175966 in endeavour "Please merge endeavour 2.8.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175966
[20:28] <ScottK> mruiz: No.  sorry.  I'm running ~8 hours behind on $WORK right now.
[20:28] <pochu> ScottK: I don't think DIF is already in place, is it?
[20:28] <mruiz> np ScottK
[20:29] <ScottK> pochu: I thought so, but I'm really not sure.
[20:30]  * ScottK was up for about 30 hours straight yesterdays so his sense of the calendar is a bit off at the moment.
[20:30] <mruiz> ScottK, don't hesitate to contact me if you visit Chile  ;-)
[20:30] <ScottK> mruiz: Will do.  Thanks.
[20:30] <mruiz> anytime
[20:32] <pochu> ScottK: HardyReleaseSchedule says it's tomorrow, so you have time to get it in
[20:32] <pochu> I'd hope the autosyncer to be run once more time... dunno if it will happen
[20:33] <ScottK> pochu: Thanks.
[20:33] <pochu> yw
[20:34] <TheMuso_> mruiz: pong
[20:34] <mok0> ScottK: I asked for a merge of maxima this afternoon (bug 173321) but it appears themuso has already merged and uploaded by himself. What to do in this situation?
[20:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 173321 in maxima "Please merge maxima_5.13.0-2 from debian" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173321
[20:35] <pochu> mok0: set it to fix released, I guess
[20:35] <mruiz> TheMuso, I requested a merge for endeavour (bug #175966)
[20:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175966 in endeavour "Please merge endeavour 2.8.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175966
[20:36] <mok0> pochu: ok
[20:36] <ScottK> mok0: That's what I'd do.
[20:36] <mok0> ok, I'll do that then
[20:38] <ScottK> mok0: I hope that's not to frustrating an experience for you.  It happens every now and then.
[20:38]  * ScottK also hopes mok0 learned something in the process.
[20:38] <mok0> ScottK: NP it was a good learning experience
[20:38] <mok0> :)
[20:38] <ScottK> ;-)
[20:39] <mok0> I have another package that I can try
[20:39] <mok0> I will finish xtide later tonight
[20:40] <TheMuso> mruiz: If I'm listed, its because I uploaded it, I didn't do the merge.
[20:40] <TheMuso> Oh sorry, thats obviously come up without me seeing it.
[20:40] <TheMuso> mruiz: I'll have a look in a bit.
[20:40] <ScottK> mok0: If he hasn't yet, I think Fujitsu was going to do numpy.  You might ask him if he'd be willing to let you have a stab at it first.  It ought to be a good learning experience in your area of interest.
[20:41] <TheMuso> mruiz: But I would focus on outstanding merges at this point please.
[20:41] <TheMuso> There are still many packages that need to be merged.
[20:41] <mok0> ScottK: sure
[20:41] <mruiz> TheMuso, I know... I wanted to contact the previous uploader to avoid double work
[20:41] <mok0> ScottK: I don't think I can make it before the merge-freeze
[20:41] <TheMuso> mruiz: Ok thats fine.
[20:41] <ScottK> mok0: It's not a hard freeze, so no problem.
[20:41] <TheMuso> But at this point, I think outstanding merges at least are fair gaim.
[20:41] <TheMuso> anyway...
[20:41]  * TheMuso -> breakfast
[20:42] <ScottK> mok0: You need to have care for how numpy and scipy interact, so it's one that needs some special care.
[20:42]  * ScottK touched numpy last due to not completely understanding that.
[20:42] <mok0> ScottK: I've packaged both of them in RPMs previously, so I know them quite well
[20:42] <ScottK> I had to clean up the mess I made.
[20:43] <ScottK> mok0: Wonderful.
[20:43] <ScottK> mok0: In Debian, both of them are maintained in the Debian Python Modules Team, so you might (if you are interested in the packages) also want to help there.
[20:44] <ScottK> POX_: ^^^^ See, I'm recruiting again.
[20:44] <mok0> ScottK: I also want to port some of the new packages I've done for Ubuntu -> Debian
[20:44] <ScottK> mok0: Great.  If you want help on getting started with that, I'd be glad to help.
[20:45] <mok0> ScottK: Thanks I'd like that. I want to put it off a bit, though, perhaps after New Year would be a good time
[20:46] <mok0> ScottK: I feel there is still a lot I need to learn about the workflow in Ubuntu
[20:47] <ScottK> mok0: OK.  Anytime.  For anything Python you've done, the Debian Python workflow is sufficiently similar to here that it's not a big jump.  Just let me know.
[20:47] <mok0> ScottK: Will do!
[20:47] <ScottK> That and #debian-python is Ubuntu friendly, unlike the places bddebian chooses to generally visit.
[20:48] <zul> lol
[20:49] <bddebian> hehe
[20:50] <mok0> bddebian: so what happens, do you get flamed?
[20:51] <ScottK> He does.
[20:51]  * ScottK suspects masochism.
[20:51] <mok0> hehe
[20:52] <mok0> bddebian: bring yer buddies next time
[20:55] <bddebian> mok0: That would imply that I had buddies :)
[20:55] <bddebian> slangasek is there to protect me.. ;-P
[20:55] <mok0> bddebian: hey, you have _us_ :-)
[20:55]  * bddebian hides
[20:56] <mok0> we can fill the channel with song and laughter
[20:57] <slangasek> yes, I'm there to make sure no one else eats you alive before I have a chance
[20:57]  * ScottK considers giving up on IRC entirely.
[20:57] <ScottK> Due to thinking about #debian-devel filled with Ubuntu song and laughter.
[20:58] <bddebian> hehe
[20:59] <mok0> :-P
[21:04] <mok0> I've gotten a bunch of weird build failures on the theseus package: dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory
[21:05] <mok0> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/theseus/1.1.5-0ubuntu1
[21:05] <slangasek> what does Ubuntu song sound like?  Kumbaya, with the words "Ubuntu, sabdfl" subbed in?
[21:05] <mok0> slangasek: lol
[21:05] <ScottK> Hmmm.   Right continent.
[21:05] <ScottK> Isn't it?
[21:06] <bddebian> hehe.. Ubuuuntu, my lord, Ubuuuntu
[21:08] <LaserJock> are we closing merge bugs in changelog entries?
[21:08] <LaserJock> I assume yes
[21:08] <imbrandon> LaserJock: yea
[21:08] <imbrandon> slangasek: LOL
[21:08] <imbrandon> slangasek: btw congrats
[21:09] <nixternal> imbrandon: dunno if you got the message out the puter(s)..can't remember :) well did you? :)
[21:09] <imbrandon> nixternal: yup
[21:09] <imbrandon> gotem :)
[21:09] <nixternal> groovy
[21:09] <imbrandon> i'll likely be grabbing one the way things look
[21:10] <nixternal> ya, he has a good deal there :)
[21:10] <imbrandon> yup
[21:10] <nixternal> which ever one you don't get, I am going to use for the LUG
[21:10] <DaveMorris> do all distros install *.pc into /usr/lib ?
[21:11] <nixternal> I don't have any *.pc in foresight
[21:11] <mok0> DaveMorris: /usr/lib/pkgconfig
[21:11] <DaveMorris> yeah thats what I mena't
[21:11] <DaveMorris> but do all dsitros do that?
[21:11] <nixternal> DaveMorris: then pretty much so, because that is where they are on my foresight box, fedora box, and kubuntu box
[21:12] <DaveMorris> thanks
[21:12] <nixternal> heh, I only have libusb.pc in my foresight box
[21:12] <mok0> DaveMorris: ... and my CentOS box
[21:13] <mok0> DaveMorris: ... and Debian 4.0
[21:15]  * ScottK has that on an old Xandros 3 install (Sarge derivative), so it's not new either.
[21:18] <R0man> hi
[21:18] <R0man> someone here who has a clue of BTG?
[21:18] <pochu> what's that?
[21:19] <R0man> Bittorrent Client
[21:19] <R0man> http://btg.berlios.de/
[21:19]  * pochu doesn't think he will have a clue if he doesn't know what it means ;)
[21:19] <pochu> R0man: you will probably get more help in #ubuntu-motu-torrent
[21:20] <R0man> oh, okay :D
[21:20] <TheMuso> mruiz: Mind telling me why the diff is 2MB?
[21:21] <mruiz> TheMuso, one moment please...
[21:22] <TheMuso> mruiz: sure
[21:24] <mdomsch> mok0, using an NFS directory for doing your builds?
[21:24] <mok0> mdomsch: you can't
[21:24] <mdomsch> right - just making sure - I got bit by that too
[21:24] <mok0> mdomsch: Are you referring to the build problems above?
[21:24] <mdomsch> yes
[21:25] <mok0> mdomsch: those are from the buildds
[21:25] <mok0> mdomsch: all archs fail but i386, but I had no probs building it on amd64
[21:25] <mok0> mdomsch: also works in my gutsy ppa
[21:25] <TheMuso> mruiz: How did you construct your debdiff?
[21:27] <mruiz> debdiff foo bar > lala
[21:27] <TheMuso> mruiz: Were both packages in the same directory?
[21:27] <mruiz> TheMuso, I'll upload them again
[21:28] <TheMuso> mruiz: Please, as it seems you also managed to get the new upstream changes in the debdiff somehow.
[21:28] <TheMuso> WHich is why the diff is so big.
[21:35] <persia> mruiz: Just to make sure, foo = $debian_version and bar is $new_candidate, right?
[21:35] <mruiz> sure persia
[21:37] <LaserJock> TheMuso, persia: ping?
[21:37] <persia> LaserJock: Just ask
[21:38] <LaserJock> persia: it seems I have a hard time unsub'ing u-u-s unless I"m a member
[21:39] <ScottK> LaserJock: That's an LP feature.
[21:39] <LaserJock> yes, I gathered that :-)
[21:39] <persia> LaserJock: Good.  Do you want to be a member?
[21:39] <LaserJock> persia: yes, I just applied ... again
[21:39]  * persia wonders why LP hasn't sent email, and goes to force the issue
[21:40] <LaserJock> well, I *just* did it so it might not have had time
[21:41] <mruiz> TheMuso, I got a 2MB debdiff again between ubuntu versions
[21:41] <TheMuso> mruiz: Hmm. Ok. Let me try and do it locally to see what I get.
[21:42] <persia> LaserJock: Welcome, and thanks for helping out!
[21:44] <LaserJock> persia: should I unsub u-u-s once I ack a sync request?
[21:44] <LaserJock> I wouldn't think we'd want to keep that around
[21:45] <TheMuso> mruiz: I am getting a diff that only changes two files, and is 4927 bytes in size.
[21:46] <persia> LaserJock: workflow is documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue (which says "unsubscribe before you ACK")
[21:46] <mruiz> TheMuso, it's strange
[21:46] <TheMuso> mruiz: Are you making a diff between the previous Ubuntu and the new merged version? If so, its better to only diff between latest Debian and merged package.
[21:47] <LaserJock> persia: bah, ok, I kinda messed up the order, mostly because I wasn't in u-u-s at the time ;-)
[21:48] <TheMuso> brb
[21:48] <mruiz> TheMuso, I did it as well... as documentation says
[21:48] <persia> LaserJock: No problems :)  We appreciate all the help that non-members give, but now that you've the golden star, you're expected to follow the order :)
[21:48] <mruiz> TheMuso: "one between the Debian .dsc and your modified one and another one between the old ubuntu .dsc and your modified one" -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging
[21:49] <persia> mruiz: That's just someone being extra paranoid.  Usually debian -> candidate is sufficient.
[21:49]  * LaserJock pats Kmos on the back
[21:49] <LaserJock> good work today
[21:50] <somerville32> :)
[21:50] <mruiz> persia, then it must be removed from doc
[21:50] <R0man> Can someone tell me whats wrong with this http://nopaste.info/b3539847fe.html apache config? It doesnt follow Symlinks!
[21:50] <Kmos> LaserJock: thx
[21:51] <LaserJock> Kmos: I'm done for the day today though, you gave me a workout ;-)
[21:51] <persia> mruiz: Well, there are some cases where ubuntu -> new candidate is actually more appropriate (e.g. fakesync or fakemerge).  I generally tell people to use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, but it's not a resolved issue.
[21:51] <Kmos> LaserJock: come here tomorrow :-) hehe
[21:57] <mok0> R0man: did you restart the server?
[21:57] <R0man> mok0, yes ;)
[21:58] <mok0> Just checking... :-) I have Options: +FollowSymLinks in one of my conf files, don't know if that plus matters
[22:01] <mok0> R0man: you should also check /var/log/apache/error.log to see what's going on
[22:01] <R0man> mok0 no I didnt, will have a look at it.. thanks so far ;)
[22:08] <somerville32> What is the link for the u-u-s queue?
[22:09] <TheMuso> mruiz: So are you still getting a huge diff?
[22:09] <mruiz> TheMuso, between Ubuntu versions... Debian/candidate is small
[22:09]  * TheMuso wioll be doing merges as he encounters them today. There are still too many outstanding merges.
[22:10] <mruiz> TheMuso -> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10866359/endeavour_2.8.4-1ubuntu1_debian_ubuntu.debdiff
[22:10] <TheMuso> mruiz: ah yeah, gotcha. Missed it in the bug.
[22:10] <mruiz> ;-)
[22:10] <mruiz> I did it !
[22:18] <persia> somerville32: Which link?
[22:18] <somerville32> persia, the one with the html tables describing the current u-u-s queue
[22:19] <persia> somerville32: Process or content?
[22:19] <somerville32> Process?
[22:20] <persia> somerville32: I think you want either https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue or https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/+bugs, but I can't tell which from your question.
[22:21] <somerville32> I'm looking for the third-party website with the u-u-s stuff
[22:21] <pochu> \sh_away: how are wesnoth security updates going? :)
[22:21] <somerville32> I think it was in people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach maybe?
[22:21] <LaserJock> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[22:24] <somerville32> bryce, Are you sponsoring catfish?
[22:25] <LaserJock> I don't get that "responsible" column
[22:26] <LaserJock> it looks like it's looking for subscribers to the bug
[22:26] <mruiz> bye guys... a productive day: 3 candidate merges :-)
[22:26] <mruiz> cya
[22:26] <mok0> cu mruiz
[22:29] <persia> LaserJock: For main, people tend to get assigned submissions if they don't get grabbed soon enough.  For Universe we tend to use a FIFO approach, and ignore "assignment", as sponsors should be unsubscribing when they pick up a bug.  Unfortunately, this practice means that dholbach's page is out of date whenever any sponsors are actually sponsoring.
[22:32]  * ajmitch sees that keybuk is trying to stir up discussion
[22:32] <TheMuso> LaserJock: WHich is why I never use Dholbach's page.
[22:33] <TheMuso> ajmitch: for what?
[22:33] <ajmitch> TheMuso: merging main & universe
[22:33]  * ScottK finds nothing immediate to complain about in Keybuck's mail.
[22:33] <TheMuso> oh...
[22:33]  * ScottK needs to think about differing work flows though.
[22:33]  * TheMuso checks mail
[22:34]  * somerville32 checks mail
[22:34] <TheMuso> I personally approach both with the same view on quality.
[22:34] <TheMuso> i.e highest quality possible.
[22:34] <mruiz> guys, when DIF will start?
[22:35]  * Fujitsu thinks it's in about 1.5 hours.
[22:35] <ScottK> mruiz: After someone (probably cjwatson) decides the autosync script has been run for the last time.
[22:36] <LaserJock> wow!
[22:38] <somerville32> +1 :)
[22:38] <LaserJock> I'm stunned
[22:38] <LaserJock> almost speechless ;-)
[22:38] <ScottK> almost
[22:38]  * TheMuso pulls up the mail.
[22:38] <jpatrick> well prepared
[22:39] <LaserJock> so... would this mean no more MOTU in the traditional sense?
[22:39] <ScottK> I think work flow and governenace are the main things not covered.
[22:40] <LaserJock> yeah
[22:40] <LaserJock> governance is a bit sticky
[22:40] <Fujitsu> Um, wow.
[22:40] <ScottK> I think people should think on those topics and give some thoughtful input.
[22:41] <LaserJock> gosh, how I wonder how this would get implemented in Soyuz
[22:41] <somerville32> Sounds like a brilliant plan to me
[22:41] <TheMuso> wow
[22:41] <somerville32> virtual components via seeds
[22:41] <Fujitsu> It makes sense to me, particularly now that it appears that Canonical doesn't actually `support' everything in main...
[22:41] <Fujitsu> It's an interesting idea.
[22:41] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: yes, that's always bugged me
[22:42] <ivoks> it's a very good idea
[22:42] <LaserJock> that and the fact that Canonical would determine components
[22:42] <somerville32> I'm a big fan of removing the dependency on Canonical - Ubuntu is an independent body
[22:42] <LaserJock> somerville32: well, the same thing can be done without removing the main/Universe split
[22:42] <TheMuso> I like the idea of teams having upload rights to seeded packages to an extent. This would mean for example, that ubuntustudio people could touch ubuntustudio packages only.
[22:42]  * somerville32 nods.
[22:43] <somerville32> Same for Xubuntu
[22:43] <Fujitsu> Poor, poor Soyuz.
[22:43] <LaserJock> yeah
[22:43] <TheMuso> hell yeah.
[22:43] <ScottK> Yes.  Solves the Xubuntu Main/Universe problem nicely.
[22:43] <LaserJock> suddenly teams would become *much* more important
[22:43]  * somerville32 nods.
[22:43] <Fujitsu> What does he mean by `most of the other technical teams'?
[22:43] <Fujitsu> Xubuntu/UbuntuStudio/etc?
[22:43] <somerville32> Fujitsu, Xubuntu, edubuntu, etc.
[22:44] <LaserJock> well, that'd have to be determined I guess
[22:44] <Fujitsu> Edubuntu is main, and is going away, so I doubt it.
[22:44] <LaserJock> no it's not!
[22:44] <LaserJock> Edubuntu is not going away
[22:44]  * LaserJock slaps Fujitsu with a fish
[22:44] <LaserJock> ;-)
[22:44] <somerville32> Please sponsor bug 175991
[22:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175991 in ttb "Sponsor ttb_0.9.4-0ubuntu3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175991
[22:44] <Fujitsu> Edubuntu is ceasing to exist separately. Isn't it just going to be an extra metapackage for installation on top of ubuntu-desktop?
[22:45] <LaserJock> kinda
[22:45] <LaserJock> it'll be the same
[22:45] <LaserJock> except we produce 2 CDs right now
[22:45] <LaserJock> and we're dropping the first and moving that stuff to Ubuntu
[22:45] <LaserJock> but it's still Edubuntu and we'll still have .isos
[22:46] <LaserJock> just dependent on Ubuntu
[22:46] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[22:46] <TheMuso> LaserJock: That makes sense. I wasn't quite sure what was happening either.
[22:46] <somerville32> So, what is the general first impression of Scott's idea?
[22:47] <LaserJock> basically we ran out of room, so for gutsy the first Edubuntu CD is just Ubuntu+Edubuntu themeing+LTSP
[22:47] <TheMuso> Still digesting it. So far, good for ubuntustudio packagers.
[22:47]  * ScottK thinks we need to understand governance before having any strong opinions.
[22:47] <LaserJock> so if LTSP is moved to Ubuntu then we don't need the first CD anymore
[22:47] <TheMuso> ScottK: I agree.
[22:47] <LaserJock> ScottK: there doesn't seem to be any inherent governance issues though?
[22:48] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Governance of what?
[22:48] <LaserJock> I didn't really see any
[22:48] <LaserJock> surely stuff needs to get worked out
[22:48] <somerville32> RAOF, Can you install grab-merge for mom?
[22:48] <LaserJock> but that's implementation
[22:49] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: I would assume upload rights
[22:50] <LaserJock> we'd go from 2 teams to many more
[22:50] <LaserJock> what about the base stuff that's in all seeds?
[22:50] <Fujitsu> That's a good question. I guess core-dev would have to take care of those...
[22:50] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[22:50] <LaserJock> would anybody in the depending teams be able to upload?
[22:51] <LaserJock> so basically, TheMuso would get to upload kernels because he's in the Ubuntu Studio team
[22:51] <Fujitsu> In a basic implementation, yes. But that's wrong.
[22:51] <Fujitsu> Presumably one would have a basic metapackage that all derivatives depend on.
[22:51] <TheMuso> LaserJock: The way I see it, is that anything not in the ubuntu/kubuntu/ubuntu-server/mobile seeds is workable by others, depending on the team they're in.
[22:52] <LaserJock> so like ubuntu-{standard,minimal} would perhaps have it's own rights?
[22:52] <TheMuso> SO its kinda like a  step down model. All derivs share the same base, but if th esame base is used by ubuntu/kubuntu/server/mobile etc, then they can't touch the packages.
[22:52] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I'd say those would be core-dev only.
[22:53] <TheMuso> I think we would have to have a way of finding out who has upload rights to a package.
[22:53] <LaserJock> right, that's kinda what I'm getting at, it becomes quite a bit less clear who can upload what
[22:53] <TheMuso> Thats the only drawback I can see.
[22:53] <LaserJock> you know, what would kind of be cool is if Launchpad gave you a "You can upload this package" flag when you go to a +source/ page
[22:53] <Fujitsu> Seeds could have a sort of priority for the permissions system. If you are a member of a seed team, you can touch packages in that seed, unless they're part of a higher-priority (ie (k|x|ed)ubuntu) seed.
[22:54] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: That's a good idea.
[22:54] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: yeah thats what I was getting at.
[22:54] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Good idea.
[22:54]  * persia likes the unless part of that
[22:55] <LaserJock> hmm, how would the priority system work?
[22:55] <TheMuso> Only thing I am not sure I like though, is for people on a team to add a package to a seed, just so they can upload a new version, and then remove it from the seed again
[22:55] <Fujitsu> One could easily have a hierarchy of seeds with different teams able to manage their specific parts of their derivatives.
[22:55] <bryce> somerville32: sure, I can take a look after I finish a couple more merges
[22:55] <LaserJock> TheMuso: perhaps they would have to do MIRs?
[22:55] <Fujitsu> TheMuso: They won't be able to upload that package.
[22:55] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: But if its a universe package so to speak.
[22:56] <Fujitsu> Hm, Oops, I misread.
[22:56] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: eg, a member of ubuntustudio adds a package to a seed and that package is in universe.
[22:56] <persia> TheMuso: That's one case of abuse: another would be to add more packages than required to a seed, just because one of the team members has an interest in those packages.
[22:56] <LaserJock> but!
[22:56] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah. I think in that case, only designated people can work on the seeds
[22:56] <LaserJock> wouldn't you already have access to those packages anyway?
[22:57] <LaserJock> I mean, "universe" would be the lowest common denominator
[22:57] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I'm saying people could add packages to a seed that they have write access to, just so they can work on that package.
[22:57] <somerville32> TheMuso, Only core-dev has access to the seeds ATM, right?
[22:57] <LaserJock> TheMuso: what I'm saying is that shouldn't get them anywhere
[22:57] <persia> TheMuso: Sure, but that gets into another mess: are those people decided by the team, or by TB?
[22:57] <TheMuso> somerville32: No, ubuntustudio team has access to the ubuntustudio seeds.
[22:57] <persia> LaserJock: Not if they are in another team's seed.
[22:57] <TheMuso> persia: Yeah i know.
[22:58] <LaserJock> persia: right, that *would* be a possible problem
[22:58] <TheMuso> Which reminds me.
[22:58] <LaserJock> so it would be people adding packages from other people's seeds
[22:58] <LaserJock> not people adding packages from "universe"
[22:58] <persia> LaserJock: Let's call them "shared packages", which may not be interesting to most members of one seed's team, but the person who works on them doesn't get along with the other team.
[22:59] <LaserJock> persia: well, that can happen now and is a problem for the CC/TB
[22:59] <persia> LaserJock: Sure, but that's just messy.
[22:59]  * persia also notes that it breaks the current recruitment & sponsorship models
[22:59] <LaserJock> yep
[22:59] <LaserJock> although maybe in a not-so-bad way
[22:59]  * somerville32 nods.
[23:00] <somerville32> Obviously there will be logistical issues to sort out but that isn't a reason not to explore the option of merging main/universe
[23:00] <LaserJock> it would tend to make the seed-teams more responsible for their members
[23:01] <persia> somerville32: Sure.
[23:01] <persia> LaserJock: Maybe
[23:02] <somerville32> Universe and Main are becoming more and more redundant. Merging seems like a Good Idea (TM).
[23:02] <mruiz> I have to go, but did it some merges... bug #160965, bug #175979, bug #160610, bug #175998, bug #175966. Can someone review them ?
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160965 in fetchyahoo "Please sync fetchyahoo 2.11.2-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160965
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175979 in gproftpd "Please merge gproftpd 8.3.2-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175979
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160610 in gtkam "Kodak camera, gtkam automatically quit." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160610
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175998 in mailping "Please merge mailping 0.0.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175998
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175966 in endeavour "Please merge endeavour 2.8.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175966
[23:02] <mruiz> ups... bug #160601
[23:02] <somerville32> mruiz, You might mark them as confirmed?
[23:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 160601 in hardware-monitor "Please merge hardware-monitor-1.4-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160601
[23:02] <persia> mruiz: If they are in the sponsors queue, you don't need to repeat them here.  Thanks for helping.
[23:03] <mruiz> somerville32, just as "in progress"
[23:03] <TheMuso> mruiz: No not in progress, and don't assign them to yourself.
[23:03] <TheMuso> as I said in the endeavour bug report.
[23:03] <persia> somerville32: I'm inclined to agree with that, but think attention should be paid to support upload permissions and to help with sponsoring.  Making it harder to get sponsored just isn't good in my book.
[23:04] <Fujitsu> persia: How would it make it harder?
[23:04] <mruiz> TheMuso, Merge documentation says it... it must be reviewed
[23:04] <persia> mruiz: Please read the notes about preparing a candidate for sponsorship in https://wiki,ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[23:04] <somerville32> mruiz, "Attach these debdiffs to the bug report, un-assign yourself, set the status to "confirmed" and subscribe (not assign!) the relative [WWW] sponsor (ubuntu-universe-sponsors for packages in universe, ubuntu-main-sponsors for packages in main)."
[23:04] <persia> Fujitsu: Currently, the U-U-S stuff gets hit mostly FIFO, by the few people who make regular passes.  Instead, it'd need to get a hit for specific teams.
[23:05] <persia> (I'm thinking longer-term, with a small "universe" of unmaintained packages)
[23:05] <Fujitsu> persia: The way I read it, ubuntu-dev would retain upload rights over most derivatives.
[23:06] <persia> Fujitsu: "...ubuntu-dev, which would have permission to upload to anything not
[23:06] <persia> seeded..."
[23:06] <somerville32> I guess that would encourage people to get involved with Xubuntu <G>
[23:07] <Fujitsu> `would be members of most of the other technical teams'
[23:08] <persia> Hmm..  Confusing there, but I can see that.  I'm less worried in that case.
[23:08] <LaserJock> basically, it would be similar to what's done now
[23:08] <LaserJock> teams could allow ubuntu-dev to be a member
[23:09] <mruiz> bye guys!
[23:09] <LaserJock> thereby allowing for sponsorship, etc. as now
[23:14]  * somerville32 hugs ubuntu
[23:16] <LaserJock> this is similar to Fedora Core + Fedora Extras -> Fedora ?
[23:17]  * Fujitsu sees an issue with a restricted/multiverse merge.
[23:17] <Fujitsu> multiverse is a whole lot more evil than restricted.
[23:17] <TheMuso> Ok. Is the sponsors queue being attended to by more than one person? If so, I'll start grabbing packages that are outstanding to be merged. Otherwise, the sponsors queue is my next target.
[23:17] <LaserJock> yeah
[23:21] <somerville32> The queue is pretty big ATM
[23:21] <TheMuso> Yeah well, the queue it is.
[23:22] <somerville32> Please sponsor bug 176004 :)
[23:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176004 in xfce4-terminal "merge xfce4-terminal 0.2.8-2ubuntu1 (main) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176004
[23:23] <TheMuso> somerville32: If its in the queue, it will be gotten to.
[23:23] <somerville32> I subscribe to the idea but I can't imagine it hurts to report it once here like one does when they upload it to REVU
[23:24] <persia> somerville32: The difference being that sponsors will ignore you when you ask for a bug that is in the queue to be sponsored, whereas reviewers may well check REVU.
[23:35] <ScottK> persia: Good mail.
[23:36] <persia> ScottK: I would have been better without points 1 & 3, which Keybuk recently explained were based on misinterpretation on #ubuntu-devel
[23:36] <persia> s/I/It/
[23:37] <ScottK> Well that just means you've helped clarify it for others that were confused.
[23:37]  * ScottK goes to dinner.
[23:38]  * TheMuso would like opinions on bug 92939 as its a new upstream, with a .tar.bz2. I'm enclined to say lets wait for Debian to get it first, due to orig tar md5sum issues.
[23:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 92939 in libowfat "[can-not-install] file overwrite error" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92939
[23:41] <persia> TheMuso: I'd agree with that, but it's worth pinging the Contributor to see if there is already discussions with Debian: if it's a couple months, better to get it now.  Similarly, if there's an agreement, and Debian will use this orig.tar.gz, we're all set.
[23:42] <TheMuso> perRight.
[23:42] <TheMuso> gah
[23:44] <blueyed> Are libtotem-plparser1-dbg and epiphany-browser-dbg installable on amd64 in Hardy?
[23:47] <LaserJock> has anybody tried git-cvs?
[23:50] <LaserJock> TheMuso: you still working on u-u-s?
[23:51] <TheMuso> LaserJock: yep
[23:51] <TheMuso> Theres a lot there
[23:51] <LaserJock> yeah, it's good to see
[23:52] <LaserJock> perhaps just drop a note in channel when you're working on a package
[23:52] <LaserJock> I might try a few and I don't want to clash
[23:52] <somerville32> I subscribed u-u-s to a merge in main by mistake, bug #176004
[23:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176004 in xfce4-terminal "merge xfce4-terminal 0.2.8-2ubuntu1 (main) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176004
[23:53] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Ok, looking at bug 72208
[23:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 72208 in ncpfs "No manual pages for ncplogin and ncplogout in package" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72208
[23:53] <LaserJock> somerville32: fixed
[23:54] <LaserJock> TheMuso: I'm looking at bug 175725
[23:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175725 in regina-normal "Please merge regina-normal (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175725
[23:55] <TheMuso> ok