[00:01] <Tm_T> rrrgh, eating, drinking and helping Xine upstream with 1.2 branch ->
[00:07] <cheguevara> talk about multitasking :P
[00:08] <steveire> stdin: Yeah it didn't take too long.
[00:10] <Tm_T> cheguevara: also several support channels I notice
[00:10] <limac> hey
[00:10] <Tm_T> I need more hands and time!
[00:14] <limac> for tomorrow's tutorial, is there going to b any repeat or anything? Like a repeat of the tutorial, 'cause i am goig to miss it since i am going to be at school!
[00:14] <stdin> limac: there will be logs available
[00:14] <limac> stdin: what do u mean?
[00:14] <limac> logs?
[00:15] <stdin> the session will be logged and you can read those logs at your convenience
[00:15] <ardchoille> Just read the agenda for Kubuntu Tutorials Day, definitely something I ned to attend :)
[00:15] <Tm_T> 0215.19 <@insanity> karma for Tm_T: -499
[00:15] <Tm_T> mmmmh
[00:15] <limac> stdin: whut do u mean the sessions will be logged?
[00:15] <ardchoille> !logs
[00:15] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
[00:16] <limac> gotcha!
[00:16] <Tm_T> stdin: see ^
[00:16] <limac> ubotu is very helpful!
[00:16] <limac> !hello
[00:16] <ubotu> Hi! Welcome to #kubuntu-devel!
[00:17] <stdin> I think there will be a specific place for the session logs too
[00:17] <stdin> not just the standard log place
[00:17]  * Tm_T should clean his mess
[00:17] <Tm_T> his or her, who knows
[00:18] <limac> So before going to school, if I join this channel, then I can also go thru everything right!
[00:18] <limac> ???
[00:19] <ardchoille> limac: You could join and have your client log the convo
[00:19] <limac> yeah so that'll also work right!
[00:20] <stdin> limac: there will be logs available even if you don't join. ubuntulog also logs this channel
[00:20] <limac> wanna but can't skip school, important TEST tom. Counts as 70% of uor grade!
[00:21] <limac> btw, how can i log the convo?
[00:22] <stdin> you don't have to
[00:22] <limac> but how can I do it?
[00:22] <stdin> depends on your client, most keep logs automatically
[00:22] <ardchoille> limac: That woold be in the options/config for your irc client
[00:22] <ardchoille> limac: Which client?
[00:22] <stdin> konversation keeps them in ~/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs
[00:23] <limac> chatzilla
[00:23] <limac> wat about chatzilla? :?
[00:24] <stdin> I don't know, never used it. not sure it can log
[00:24] <limac> but I can use konversation too,(since i'm using kubuntu)
[00:24] <limac> thnx
[00:24] <limac> :)
[00:25] <limac_> I am on konversation right now
[00:25] <ardchoille> limac: Check the settings, I know konversation can log
[00:26] <limac_> wat in settings?
[00:26] <stdin> settings > configure konversation > logging
[00:26] <limac_> ok
[00:27] <limac_> gotcha then?
[00:27] <stdin> make sure it's enabled
[00:27] <Tm_T> meh
[00:28] <limac_> it's enabled
[00:28] <Tm_T> quiet moment now, build fails and upstream devels gone sleeping
[00:28] <limac_> so how can I revisit it
[00:28] <limac_> ?
[00:28] <stdin> see the directory it says? logs are in there
[00:29] <limac_> ok hold on a sec let me see! :)
[00:29] <limac_> :)
[00:31] <limac_> where is that directory:  /home/limac/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs
[00:32] <stdin> that's exactly where is it
[00:32] <stdin> open that in konqueror or dolphin
[00:33] <limac_> did that!!!
[00:34] <limac_> proceed
[00:34] <stdin> look at what's in there
[00:36] <limac_> says : Home folder, storage media, network folders, trash, apps
[00:36] <ardchoille> limac: When you go to /home/limac/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs in konqueror, what do you see in that dir?
[00:36] <limac_> how can i go to taht dir?
[00:37] <ardchoille> open konqueror, type that path into the location bar
[00:37] <ardchoille> /home/limac/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs is a path
[00:38] <limac_> hold on
[00:38] <limac_> thnx dude, i got it now!! :)
[00:38] <ardchoille> :)
[00:39] <Tm_T> DaSkreech: howdy
[00:40] <DaSkreech> Hey Tm_T
[00:40] <limac_> and can u guys tell me wat languages i need to no, in order to be a devel?
[00:41] <Tm_T> limac_: english is recommended
[00:41] <DaSkreech> limac_: ones that instruct the computer
[00:41] <ardchoille> limac: There are several.. I am currently learning python, but there are C, C++, perl, ruby, etc
[00:41] <limac> I mean like computer language? :) ilive in the US
[00:41] <limac> I only know c/c++
[00:41] <DaSkreech> limac: English is still recommended
[00:41] <Tm_T> limac_: those are just fine :)
[00:41]  * DaSkreech ducks
[00:42] <limac> and wat about qt?
[00:42] <cheguevara> its not a language
[00:42] <cheguevara> its a framework
[00:42] <limac> ah!
[00:42] <cheguevara> for C++
[00:42] <stdin> and python
[00:42] <limac> ok!! :D
[00:42] <ardchoille> limac: I'll be using that to write apps in pyqt
[00:43] <limac> so i'll learn python too!
[00:43] <limac> cool
[00:43] <limac> :)
[00:43]  * cheguevara only knows php
[00:43] <DaSkreech> Python is pretty easy to learn
[00:44] <cheguevara> too bad php is not really helpful to kubuntu heh
[00:45] <cheguevara> well there's php-qt
[00:45] <limac> python is the easiest of all langs,  i started learning it but it was capable of getting me bored soon enough and i gave up!!!! :/
[00:46] <limac_> ./join kubuntu-motu
[00:46] <limac_> ./join #kubuntu-motu
[00:46] <Tm_T> remove dot
[00:47] <Tm_T> and k
[00:47] <limac_> oops
[00:47] <Tm_T> IIRC
[00:48] <limac_> btw is there any channel such as "kubuntu-motu"?
[00:49] <ardchoille> limac: Kubuntu uses Ubuntu repos
[00:49] <ScottK> limac_: No.  We do that stuff here or in #ubuntu-motu
[00:49] <limac> ah!
[00:49] <limac> hihih
[00:50] <limac> but they all deb repos! hihihi :)
[00:55] <DaSkreech> limac
[00:55] <DaSkreech> You probably need better a grasp of OO thinking :)
[00:55] <DaSkreech> limac: it's the same repos
[00:56] <limac> whats OO thinking?
[00:56] <limac> i no just kidding around!
[00:56] <DaSkreech> Open XML :)
[00:56] <Tm_T> you no?
[00:57] <limac> and does anyone know how I can change my boot order for a win 98 machine. says all wierd stuff like "A,C,SCSI", in the BIOS, and can't figure out which is what, plud what's the PU button?
[00:57] <DaSkreech> It's a smelly button
[00:58] <limac> what?
[00:59]  * DaSkreech holds nose
[00:59] <DaSkreech> PU
[01:09] <yuriy> anything of interest from the meeting?
[01:11] <ardchoille> yuriy: Two new kubuntu members
[01:12] <ardchoille> Tm_T and ardchoille
[01:12] <Tm_T> also nixternal shocked once again \o/
[01:13] <nixternal> shh
[01:14] <nixternal> I am learning DHTML right now :)
[01:14] <Tm_T> s/shocked/been\ shocked/
[01:14] <yuriy> congrats Tm_T
[01:14] <yuriy> who's ardchoille?
[01:15] <ardchoille> I am :)
[01:15] <limac> i am not!
[01:15] <ardchoille> yuriy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ardchoille2
[01:15] <Tm_T> yuriy: danke
[01:16] <yuriy> ardchoille: well congrats to you too
[01:16] <ardchoille> ty :)
[01:16] <limac> man my feisty cd on my win98 machine is spurting out defects!
[01:16] <nixternal> limac] man my feisty cd on my win98 machine is spurting out defects!
[01:17] <nixternal> hahahahahah! you seriously made me LOL in the middle of class with that one :)
[01:17] <ardchoille> hehe
[01:46] <DaSkreech> What's up with PDF?
[01:47] <DaSkreech> I hear there is a new backend being created?
[01:55] <limac> hey
[01:56] <Tm_T> hey hey
[01:57] <limac> my friend has a problem, he wants to view this page: http://www.anandabazar.com/, but its showing all wierd language(an alien languge) not the languag, they call Bengali
[01:57] <no0tic> hey hey hey
[01:57] <DaSkreech> hey hey hey
[01:57] <limac> hey hey hey hey
[01:57] <DaSkreech> + hey!
[01:58] <DaSkreech> dang >-<
[01:58] <no0tic> while(0) print hey
[01:58] <DaSkreech> I'm out of date :(
[01:58] <limac> is there like a "say hey as many times as u can cometition going on"?
[01:58] <no0tic> uhm... while(1) say hey
[01:58] <Tm_T> limac: you know this is not support channel, right?
[01:59] <limac> yup!
[01:59] <limac> i no
[01:59] <limac> hihihih
[02:00] <cheguevara> i think latest policykit update broke mounting again
[02:01] <limac> kubuntu is way better than ubuntu, just my opinion. more stable i mean!
[02:01] <cheguevara> either that or vista b0rked my ntfs partition
[02:02] <ardchoille> no comment :P
[02:03] <cheguevara> hey i need to play games once in a while
[02:04] <cheguevara> i swear i don't use it for nothign else :P
[02:04] <limac> anyone tried gparted here? it's the best!
[02:04] <limac> again, also my opinion^
[02:05] <cheguevara> gparted has fucked up so many partition layouts for me
[02:05] <ardchoille> cheguevara: Please watch the language
[02:06] <cheguevara> sorry
[02:16] <DaSkreech> qtparted IS dead right?
[02:16] <DaSkreech> with Partition magic?
[02:17] <Tm_T> umm, what?
[02:17] <cheguevara> yeah both are dead if thats what u mean
[02:18] <DaSkreech> Well I know Partition magic is dead
[02:18] <DaSkreech> ok just checking
[02:18] <Tm_T> hrrr
[02:19] <cheguevara> http://qtparted.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/qtparted/
[02:20] <cheguevara> or may be not
[02:20] <Tm_T> :p
[02:20] <cheguevara> they are porting to QT 4
[02:21] <DaSkreech> cheguevara: Who is they?
[02:21] <DaSkreech> Same people or  fork?
[02:22] <cheguevara> ark linux ppl
[02:23] <Tm_T> hey now, no need to cursing
[02:23] <DaSkreech> ok
[03:16] <istarex> Will there be transcripts available for the kubuntu tutorial day sessions being held tomorrow?
[03:16] <cheguevara> yes
[03:18] <istarex> Will they be linked off the tutorial day wiki page?
[04:37] <yuriy> just made this for the last slide of a presentation :D http://www.yktech.us/temp/holidaykonqi.png
[05:05] <aRyn> has the Developer Meeting been in this channel for everyone?
[05:07] <ScottK> No.  It was in #ubuntu-meeting.
[05:07] <Tm_T> yup
[05:11] <aRyn> sry, what did you say?
[05:11] <ardchoille> < ScottK> No.  It was in #ubuntu-meeting.
[05:11] <ardchoille> < Tm_T> yup
[05:11] <Tm_T> ardchoille: I bet that was important line =)
[05:12] <ardchoille> Just wanted to catch everything :)
[05:12] <ardchoille> But looking at the timestamps, he got that last line
[05:12] <Tm_T> heh
[05:12] <aRyn> sry, I had a disconnec,t could you plz resend me the messages after mine?
[05:13] <aRyn> !logs
[05:13] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
[05:13] <Tm_T> aRyn: done
[05:13] <ardchoille> aRyn: I did
[05:13] <aRyn> hm
[05:13] <ardchoille> There were only two lines
[05:13] <aRyn> thx
[05:13] <aRyn> ^^
[05:14] <aRyn> o thx, i jsut wanted to ask for the logs :D
[05:14] <aRyn> hm, lol, shit, on the website is this channel written -.-
[05:14] <aRyn> now it took place in another one
[05:15] <aRyn> hm
[05:15] <aRyn> thought it would be here
[05:15] <aRyn> damn
[05:15] <aRyn> and what's about the tut day?
[05:15] <ardchoille> Please watch the language
[05:15] <ardchoille> @schedule
[05:15] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Dec 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 18 Dec 15:00: Server Team meeting | 20 Dec 14:00: Desktop Team Development
[05:16] <aRyn> yeah, on the website is written: where? #kubuntu-devel
[05:16] <aRyn> but it wasn't here...
[05:17] <ardchoille> This one?  https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay
[05:17] <aRyn> ardchoille: what did you mean with "You did"? and Tm_T: what did you mean with "done"?
[05:17] <aRyn> ardchoille: yes
[05:17] <aRyn> oehm
[05:17] <aRyn> and the topic
[05:18] <ardchoille> aRyn: You asked us to repeat what was said when you were out and "we did"
[05:18] <aRyn> lol, ok, because I already said thx
[05:18] <aRyn> maybe it was a biiig laag
[05:18] <aRyn> ^^
[05:18] <ardchoille> I'm just responding to   * aRyn* ardchoille: what did you mean with "You did"? and Tm_T: what did you mean with "done"?
[05:19] <aRyn> yes, me2
[05:24] <aRyn> when will be the next developer meeting?
[05:25] <aRyn> and what is 'LoCo'?
[05:25] <Tm_T> Local Community
[05:28] <aRyn> Tm_T: could you plz tell me the Topic in #ubuntu-meeting like ~5h before the meeting started?
[05:28] <aRyn> can't find it
[05:29] <ardchoille> aRyn: Does this help? http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
[05:30] <aRyn> yea, kind if
[05:30] <aRyn> of
[05:31] <aRyn> I'm a little bit pissed of right now, i must say, i was looking forward to participating on my first developer-meeting and now that...
[05:31] <aRyn> uff
[05:32] <aRyn> in*
[05:33] <ardchoille> aRyn: You can add that calendar to your korganizer calendar, you know?
[05:33] <aRyn> yea, i did that already for todays meeting...but LOL if it tells me the wrong place, that's ofr nothing...
[05:34] <ardchoille> aRyn: Clickin on an event in the calendar tells you which channel it's in
[05:34] <aRyn> but i put that event in by hand, you mean I can add the whole calendar in korganizer?
[05:35] <aRyn> and how to go?
[05:35] <ardchoille> aRyn: For instance, the Kubuntu/Ubuntu meeting today, the event says it's in #ubuntu-meeting
[05:35] <ardchoille> aRyn: Ah, ok. on that web page, there is a small icon at the bottom, looks like a calendar.. click it
[05:36] <ardchoille> Choose Save as.., then save it. Then open korganizer and add it as a calcendar
[05:47] <aRyn> did this meeting also took place at the LoCos? ANd maybe got translated automatically in their native languages or are that completely different channels?
[05:50] <aRyn> @schedule
[05:50] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Dec 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 18 Dec 15:00: Server Team meeting | 20 Dec 14:00: Desktop Team Development
[05:51] <aRyn> hm, what's about the today's meeting?
[05:51] <aRyn> it's missing
[05:55] <aRyn> already updated?^^
[05:56] <ardchoille> aRyn: It must have been updated already because today's meeting was there earlier
[06:03] <aRyn> [20:00] <ardchoille> I have a habit of being somewhere other than where I wanted to be, lol
[06:04] <aRyn> rofl :)
[06:04] <Tm_T> aRyn: btw do you have wiki or LP page?
[06:04] <aRyn> ?
[06:06] <Tm_T> wiki.ubuntu.com and launchpad.net
[06:07] <aRyn> hm, sry, I don't get the question, what's wiht those pages?
[06:07] <Tm_T> aRyn: page describing you and your doing
[06:07] <Tm_T> https://launchpad.net/~tmt
[06:07] <Tm_T> for example
[06:09] <aRyn> to answer ur question: I had the wiki page, not so the LP page
[06:09] <aRyn> (if that was ur question.... ^^)
[06:10] <Tm_T> yes
[06:10] <aRyn> thx for it
[06:10] <Tm_T> and if you do have, I'm interested to see
[06:11] <Tm_T> aRyn: ...and answer says it all ;)
[06:12] <aRyn> ~~
[06:13] <aRyn> btw where can the mailing list be found?
[06:14] <Tm_T> lists.ubuntu.com should have them all
[06:14] <aRyn> kk
[06:15] <aRyn> how often are these meetings in common? once a week? after 2 weeks?
[06:15] <Tm_T> depends
[06:16] <Tm_T> sometimes its needed more often, but I assume not month long gaps
[06:17] <aRyn> especially kubuntu ones
[06:17] <aRyn> like today
[06:17] <Tm_T> well thats what I meant
[06:17] <aRyn> (or yesterday, depens on ur zones^^)
[06:19] <aRyn> ok, but main thing is: they are no "rare thing", so that it would be very annoying to miss one (like me today...) ?
[06:20] <Tm_T> you didn't really miss anything
[06:24] <aRyn> yea, to read not, but to take part in :) but it's okay, thanks anyway ^^
[06:27] <aRyn> especially after rc2
[06:35] <Tm_T> aRyn: btw if you really care about my client versions etc, you can always ask, it's more polite way always
[06:46] <mhb> have a nice tutorial day!
[06:55] <nareshov> Two days to merge! yay!
[07:42] <dholbach> good morning
[08:29] <Tm_T> hi \sh
[08:30] <\sh> moins Tm_T
[08:52]  * nareshov is away: Gone away for now.
[09:01] <raphink> hop
[09:02] <raphink> :)
[09:05] <Riddell> skip
[09:05] <Riddell> nareshov: gonnae no use public away
[09:05] <ardchoille> Riddell: Are you Scottish?
[09:05] <Riddell> ardchoille: that I am
[09:06] <elisiano> ardchoille: how do u get that hostname?
[09:06] <ardchoille> Most people wouldn't have picked up on the "Iain vs Ian" earlier
[09:06] <elisiano> Riddell: I wish I were you.... not for coding, for whiskey
[09:06] <elisiano> :D
[09:06] <ardchoille> elisiano: I became an Ubuntu member today
[09:06] <Riddell> ahem, elisiano clearly isn't Scottish
[09:06] <Tm_T> ardchoille: I got uglier cloak!
[09:06] <elisiano> of course I'm not :D
[09:07] <elisiano> but I'd like to
[09:07] <Riddell> elisiano: you must be thinking of whisky
[09:07] <Riddell> any other spelling is blasphemy
[09:07] <ardchoille> Tm_T: You're above me in the food chain, lol
[09:07] <Tm_T> haha
[09:07] <elisiano> yeah correction: s/whiskey/whisky/
[09:07] <elisiano> :D
[09:07] <elisiano> is that ok? :)
[09:07] <Riddell> perfect
[09:07] <elisiano> may I have a glass now?
[09:08]  * Riddell pours finest single cask
[09:08]  * Tm_T gives a glass of milk to elisiano 
[09:08] <jussio1> hmmm... so this is what the devs do all day... Whisky!!!
[09:08] <ardchoille> elisiano: "Anythin' nae Scottish is crrrrrap"
[09:08] <Tm_T> Riddell: thanks, I needed that
[09:08]  * Tm_T uses whisky to polish her new helmet
[09:08] <ardchoille> jussio1: Now you see why I joined? :P
[09:08] <elisiano> Tm_T: I like milk as well, but you know, it's not a morning thing... whisky is
[09:09] <jussio1> ardchoille: hehehe...nice
[09:09]  * Tm_T drinks only water, coffee and tea
[09:09] <Tm_T> and water
[09:10] <Tm_T> oh, and orange juice today
[09:10] <ardchoille> elisiano: Let me get you a link..
[09:10] <jussio1> Tm_T: you arent a true Finn then... tru Finns only drink coffee, beer and Vodka!
[09:10] <jussio1> :P
[09:11] <ardchoille> elisiano: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/NewMemberHowto
[09:11] <Tm_T> jussio1: yup, I don't like alcohol
[09:11] <Tm_T> jussio1: my head is a mess already =)
[09:11] <jussio1> !member
[09:11] <ubotu> Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
[09:12] <ardchoille> elisiano: You have to show sustained support. I wasn't sure mine would qualify, but I had some fans in the meeting :)
[09:12] <elisiano> lol
[09:12] <elisiano> I heard also of "unaffiliated" hostname
[09:12] <elisiano> and u get that by just bugging the staff
[09:12] <ardchoille> elisiano: yes, anyone can get that cloak.. talk to a freenode staffer
[09:13] <elisiano> yeah, which is who? :)
[09:13] <jussio1> nalioth
[09:13] <ardchoille> elisiano: you can list them with /stats p
[09:13] <ardchoille> Not sure if that is reliable, tho
[09:13] <elisiano> thanks
[09:13] <jussio1> elisiano: just /join #freenode
[09:14] <elisiano> that's nice, no staff atm
[09:15] <elisiano> anyway not a issue, just wondering how... thanks
[09:15] <jussio1> :D
[09:16] <ardchoille> Hmm.. chomping at the bit here for the Kubuntu tutorials Day. The 1st, 2nd, and 4th sessions already have my attention
[09:18]  * elisiano yawns
[10:09] <wolfger> is it time for the tutorials yet? ;-)
[10:14] <Riddell> spose I should think of something to say :)
[10:16] <Riddell> holy guacamole, over 100 people in here, up from 60 when I announced tutorials day
[10:17] <dholbach> yoohooo! :)
[10:32] <ardchoille> How do I set up my @ubuntu.com email address ?
[10:33] <elisiano> from what I read it should be automagically
[10:33] <elisiano> it should be an alias to the email with which u created your launchpad account
[10:34] <elisiano> ardchoille:
[10:35] <elisiano> Membership entitles you to the following benefits: An @ubuntu.com e-mail alias that forwards to your real e-mail - the email-address will be set up automatically and will be based on your main Launchpad ID: [MAILTO] your_launchpad_id@ubuntu.com. All email arriving at said address will be forwarded to the primary email address listed for your profile in Launchpad. You can test if it is active by sending
[10:35] <elisiano> yourself some mail, from time to time.
[10:36] <ardchoille> elisiano: That's what I thought too
[10:36] <elisiano> I'm not thinking it :D https://wiki.kubuntu.org/NewMemberHowto
[10:39] <jussio1> ardchoille: is yours not working?
[10:39] <ardchoille> jussio1: It's not working
[10:39] <jussio1> ardchoille: is it a gmail account?
[10:39] <ardchoille> jussio1: yes
[10:40] <Riddell> ardchoille: give it some time
[10:40] <jussio1> ardchoille: ahh, kk.. there were some issues with gmail
[10:40] <jussio1> IIRC
[10:40] <Riddell> the mail server only sync occationally to launchpad
[10:42] <ardchoille> Riddell: I'm not sure what that means. Does that mean I can only receive emial @ubuntu.com certain times of the day? Because gmail is sending back Failure notices immediately.
[10:43] <elisiano> I think he means that it's not synced every second :D
[10:43] <elisiano> ardchoille: how long have you been a member?
[10:43] <ardchoille> elisiano: Just  few hours
[10:44] <elisiano> I think that your email alias hasn't been set up yet
[10:44] <ardchoille> Ok, I'll give it a day or two.
[10:44] <elisiano> that's too bad because email@ubuntu.com r0x a lot
[10:44] <elisiano> :D
[10:45] <ardchoille> :)
[10:46] <elisiano> Riddell: may I ask you a personal question: do you code for work or in your spare time?
[10:46] <Riddell> elisiano: both
[10:47]  * jussio1 sends Riddell a virtual Whisky for being awesome!
[10:48] <Riddell> I'll save that until after the tutorials :)
[10:48] <jussio1> :D
[10:48] <ardchoille> hehe
[10:48] <Tm_T> mmmgh
[10:49] <jussio1> hmmm, what time is it utc now?
[10:49] <jussio1> @now utc
[10:49] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: December 13 2007, 10:49:08 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 3 hours 10 minutes
[10:49] <jussio1> k then :D
[10:49] <jussio1> so...4 hours to tutorials!! yay
[10:49] <Tm_T> mmmgh
[10:49]  * jussio1 is getting excited...
[10:50]  * ardchoille is too
[10:50] <jussio1> Tm_T: did someone gag you?
[10:50] <Tm_T> jussio1: no, I'm just bit suffering here
[10:50] <jussio1> Tm_T: how so?
[10:51] <Tm_T> nerves in my right arm/shoulder causing pains and losing powers
[10:51] <Tm_T> prolly from spine originating
[10:51] <jussio1> ouch...
[10:52] <Tm_T> pretty much normal day, no, better than normal still :p
[10:53] <elisiano> @now gmt+1
[10:53] <ardchoille> Why do people like Linux_Galore sit in #kubuntu and act disrespectful and childish?
[10:53] <elisiano> @now Europe/Rome
[10:53] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/Rome: December 13 2007, 11:53:41 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 3 hours 6 minutes
[10:53] <ardchoille> It's quite annoying. I wish I were an op in #kubuntu
[10:53] <Tm_T> ardchoille: if so, do !ops
[10:55] <Tm_T> ardchoille: warned, next will be going
[10:55] <ardchoille> Tm_T:  Then he'll be going soon :)
[10:56] <Tm_T> apparently
[10:56] <ardchoille> Tm_T: Thank you, btw
[10:56]  * jussio1 sighs
[10:56] <Tm_T> np, sorry I wasnt there earlier
[10:56] <ardchoille> np
[10:56] <Tm_T> ardchoille: duty, not privilege ;)
[10:57] <jussio1> hehe
[10:57] <Riddell> ardchoille: becoming an op isn't hard
[10:57] <ardchoille> Riddell: How do I apply?
[10:58] <Riddell> ardchoille: ask me nicely
[10:59] <Riddell> question is if I can remember how to do it
[10:59] <ardchoille> Riddell: May I please be made an oper in #kubuntu? I promise I will do my best.
[10:59] <jussio1> ardchoille: which timezone are you in?
[11:00] <Riddell> ardchoille: that should be it
[11:00] <ardchoille> Riddell: And may I say you are one of the most awesome people I have met? :)
[11:00] <ardchoille> Riddell: Thank you so very much.
[11:00] <ardchoille> jussio1: Uhm, not sure. Seattle, WA. I think it's PST
[11:00] <Riddell> ardchoille: why thank you
[11:01]  * jussio1 sighs - I often wish I could also help out there - there are often things that happen in the morning my tim (gmt +2) and Tm_T is not around... actually nobody seems to be around in the mornings. 
[11:02] <Tm_T> jussio1: I'm often around there except few last weeks
[11:02] <ardchoille> jussio1: I spend a lot of time in there.. my friends say "too much time"
[11:02] <Tm_T> ardchoille: what is too much?
[11:02] <jussio1> Tm_T: yeah... maybe thats why Ive noticed it
[11:02] <ardchoille> Tm_T: That was my response :)
[11:02] <mikkael> /usr/lib/kde4/bin/startkde needs to have "export KDEHOME=~/.kde4" too, else it will not log in. talking about hardy, dont know how things in gutsy are at the moment
[11:02] <jussio1> ardchoille: there is no such thing as too much
[11:02] <Tm_T> jussio1: also Jucato has been away
[11:03] <mikkael> but finally kde4 working .D
[11:04] <jussio1> Tm_T: yeah. We could do with a few more ops though, so having ardchoille is good.
[11:04] <Tm_T> agreed there
[11:04] <jussio1> Riddell:  Im happy to help also if you would like the help. ( I am OP in #ubuntustudio currently)
[11:05] <Tm_T> Riddell: /msg chanserv access channel mask level
[11:05] <Tm_T> whops
[11:06] <Tm_T> Riddell: /msg chanserv access channel ADD mask level
[11:06] <xRaich[o]2x> Hi. the kde4 packages are awesome. is someone working on kmail akregator and kwalletmanager packages? i'd like to test them.
[11:11] <Riddell> jussio1: voila
[11:11] <Tm_T> :)
[11:11] <jussio1> Riddell: thank you muchly!
[11:14] <Tm_T> Riddell: you might like to add rights to me here, so I don't need poke you guys when needed :)
[11:20] <stdin> woah, ardchoille has a access level of 29?
[11:20] <Tm_T> heh
[11:20] <Tm_T> right to the top
[11:21] <ardchoille> My friends always told me I was special :)
[11:21] <Tm_T> you are, you are!
[11:21] <Tm_T> ardchoille: thats why you have your own league!
[11:21] <ardchoille> hehe
[11:22] <Riddell> 29 is the same as 20
[11:22] <Tm_T> heh
[11:22] <Riddell> Tm_T: there you go
[11:23] <Tm_T> thanks sir
[11:23] <Tm_T> readded me to #kubuntu I notice
[11:24] <Tm_T> I had #kubuntu-devel in mind, sorta :p
[11:24] <Riddell> comme ca
[11:24] <Tm_T> oh well, I don't complain :)
[11:24] <Tm_T> heh
[11:24] <stdin> Riddell: well 25+ lets you use SET
[11:24] <Tm_T> reminds me of something I did
[11:24] <Tm_T> better left forgotten
[11:27] <stdin> Riddell: heh, looks like I got a few build failure emails last night
[11:28] <Tm_T> stdin: mails from lover that is
[11:28] <stdin> Tm_T: not unless Launchpad Buildd System loves me :p
[11:29] <ardchoille> lol
[11:30] <Tm_T> stdin: that's what I said
[11:31] <stdin> if it loves me, why does it not want to build my packages? :(
[11:31] <Tm_T> more time with you?
[11:31] <stdin> or it's just playing hard-to-get
[11:31] <wolfger> it thinks you're too good for those packages
[11:32] <stdin> it should respect my wishes, if you love someone, you must let them build their own packages :p
[11:33] <wolfger> Launchpad knows what's best for you, and is only trying to protect you
[11:34]  * wolfger sighs... when will I be able to install KDE4 on Kubuntu Hardy?
[11:34] <Tm_T> stdin: don't even think of using other build services! I know you're not a cheater type!
[11:34] <stdin> wolfger: Launchpad knows what's best for you, and is only trying to protect you :>
[11:34] <Tm_T> wolfger: when you compile it from svn, would be smartypants answer
[11:34] <wolfger> lol
[11:35] <stdin> Tm_T: there's only one build system for me, even though it's a but proprietary :)
[11:35] <Tm_T> wolfger: thus said, I build daily or so
[11:35] <wolfger> well I'm hoping I'll have a clue what svn is by the end of tutorials today
[11:35] <Tm_T> stdin: hih
[11:35] <stdin> !svn
[11:35] <ubotu> svn is Subversion: an open-source revision control system, which aims to be a compelling replacement for CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/
[11:35] <stdin> now that's some lag...
[11:35] <Tm_T> wolfger: it's that magical place where KDE sources lives until our loving developers blows 'em alive!
[11:36] <wolfger> rofl
[11:36] <wolfger> ok, so when did Subversion start being abbreviated? Or am I just a clueless git?
[11:37] <Tm_T> wolfger: all svn urls are, well, svn
[11:37] <stdin> wolfger: no git is another form of reversion control :p
[11:38] <ardchoille> hehe
[11:38] <wolfger> :-P
[11:38] <wolfger> ok... still no KDE4, still no mplayer... I'm getting out of Hardy and back into Gutsy. BRB
[11:39] <Tm_T> noooooo
[11:39] <wolfger> no?
[11:40] <Tm_T> no giving up, son
[11:42] <wolfger> feh. I want a fully usable computer for my day off from work. I'll be back to Hardy soon enough.
[11:42] <wolfger> or, if not fully usable, I need to be able to play with KDE4 :-)
[11:42] <stdin> wolfger: so get the liveCD :)
[11:43] <wolfger> planning on it
[11:44] <Hobbsee> hey all
[11:45] <stdin> hey Hobbsee :)
[11:49] <Riddell> Hobbsee: could you up the priority of kdepimlibs/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu3
[12:00] <sebastian^> moin folks :)
[12:00] <stdin> T=-2:59
[12:01] <stdin> (until the tutorials that is)
[12:01] <Tm_T> hm
[12:01] <Tm_T> I'm leaving in one hour
[12:02] <sebastian^> hmm is anyone here using the cisco network assistant?
[12:10]  * txwikinger2 gets a panic... only 2:50 left ?
[12:10] <txwikinger2> just kidding :)
[12:21] <jpatrick> Riddell: I'll be here ;)
[12:22] <Hobbsee> was there anything interesting in the meeting?
[12:22] <ardchoille> Hobbsee: Two new members
[12:22] <Hobbsee> ah yes, saw them
[12:23] <jpatrick> wow, 129 nicks
[12:23] <jpatrick> beats our average of ~60
[12:23] <jpatrick> let's make stay like that ;)
[12:24] <wolfger> you mean we have to keep coming back after tutorials are over? ;-)
[12:24]  * jussio1 goes and add #kubuntu-devel to his login list...
[12:24] <stdin> Hobbsee: it was a sort meeting with nothing on the agenda, so nothing happened except membership approval
[12:25] <Hobbsee> ah right
[12:25] <txwikinger2> jpatrick: deduct 1, I am here twice :P
[12:26]  * Hobbsee is here twice.
[12:26] <Tm_T> hmmmmmm
[12:26] <Tm_T> noone knows how many I am
[12:27] <Tm_T> nor me
[12:27] <jussio1> Tm_T: is your shoulder still hurting?
[12:27] <Tm_T> yup
[12:27] <Tm_T> and my head too soon
[12:27] <Tm_T> mmmgh, fail to do reasonable patch for fixing my kickoff tree
[12:28]  * txwikinger2 needs to finish some stuff to leave work early
[12:38] <elisiano> Tm_T: Riddell has a patch for your problem (Whisky :D)
[12:38] <ardchoille> That's a patch for *any* problem
[12:38] <elisiano> lol
[12:38] <elisiano> :D
[12:38] <Tm_T> elisiano: nope, it's not a patch, my helmet is polished already
[12:39] <elisiano> I need fixing too
[12:39]  * Tm_T doesn't use alcohol for getting drunk or any
[12:39] <addikt1ve> hi :)
[12:39] <Tm_T> addikt1ve: hi
[12:39] <addikt1ve> meven, je suis là :p
[12:39] <elisiano> Tm_T: why wouldn't u?
[12:39] <addikt1ve> hi Tm_T
[12:39] <Tm_T> elisiano: why shoyld I? ;)
[12:39] <Tm_T> see! cant type a thing :(
[12:39] <elisiano> because... it's fun! and I like it
[12:40] <wolfger> Tm_T: then what *do* you use for getting drunk? ;-)
[12:40] <Tm_T> I don't like it
[12:40] <Tm_T> wolfger: none
[12:40] <Tm_T> wolfger: I'm just, well, me
[12:40] <elisiano> u don't drink because u don't like it or because you don't like being drunk?
[12:40] <wolfger> that's a good way to be
[12:41] <Tm_T> elisiano: don't like being drunk, nor need be
[12:41] <Tm_T> I do enjoy some tastes, but nah, I can live without em
[12:41] <elisiano> u don't have necessarily to go that bad, tipsy would be a good start :D
[12:42] <jussio1> Tm_T: gets drunk on linux :D
[12:42] <Tm_T> elisiano: nah, don't need it either
[12:42] <Tm_T> elisiano: trust me, I have seen drunken people enough
[12:42] <Tm_T> and results of it
[12:42] <Serega> heya
[12:42] <elisiano> Tm_T: your choice, but i still like it
[12:42] <addikt1ve> Tm_T, being drunk sux ur right :/
[12:42] <elisiano> ;)
[12:42] <Tm_T> elisiano: yup, feel free, I'm not stopping you :)
[12:43] <addikt1ve> elisiano, yep, but not totally drunk
[12:43] <elisiano> right, not totally
[12:43] <Tm_T> in my age, it's time to keep the little pieces of life together
[12:43] <elisiano> how old are you Tm_T ?
[12:43] <elisiano> if I may ask
[12:43] <Tm_T> 112 years
[12:43] <Tm_T> and counting
[12:43] <elisiano> lol
[12:44] <addikt1ve> Tm_T, are you sure you're not drunk now :D ?
[12:44] <Tm_T> addikt1ve: yes
[12:44] <jussio1> Tm_T: cmon... stop lying about your age... you are 137... :P
[12:44] <addikt1ve> xD
[12:44] <Tm_T> jussio1: mmgh
[12:44] <elisiano> seriously, how old?
[12:44] <addikt1ve> Tm_T, i guess he wont say
[12:44] <addikt1ve> ^^
[12:44] <Tm_T> seriously
[12:45] <elisiano> yeah but maybe he's younger than me
[12:45] <elisiano> :D
[12:45] <addikt1ve> :D
[12:45] <addikt1ve> how old are u?
[12:45] <elisiano> 27
[12:45] <addikt1ve> k :)
[12:45] <elisiano> @now Europe/Rome
[12:45] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/Rome: December 13 2007, 13:45:44 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 1 hour 14 minutes
[12:45] <elisiano> wow 1 hour
[12:45] <elisiano> and the magic begins
[12:45] <elisiano> :D
[12:46] <addikt1ve> which country are you living in, elisiano :) ?
[12:46] <elisiano> lol
[12:46] <elisiano> guess
[12:46] <elisiano> did I write Europe/Paris or Europe/Rome? :))
[12:46] <addikt1ve> lol :p Rome
[12:46] <addikt1ve> ok
[12:47] <addikt1ve> @now Europe/Paris
[12:47] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/Paris: December 13 2007, 13:47:12 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 1 hour 12 minutes
[12:47] <addikt1ve> \o/
[12:47] <elisiano> o7
[12:47] <addikt1ve> ^^
[12:47] <addikt1ve> hai2u karl
[12:48] <karl> yep
[12:48] <karl> a bit addictive?
[12:48] <Tm_T> nixternal: aye, I'm bit off but if possible, I'll try come by for few seconds to help (can't promise much)
[12:48] <addikt1ve> here you are :)
[12:48] <Serega> @now Europe/Kyiv
[12:48] <Serega> :(
[12:48] <addikt1ve> owned :p
[12:49] <addikt1ve> hey guys i have a question
[12:49] <addikt1ve> when dev team guys'll be here
[12:49] <addikt1ve> we will lost voice isnt it?
[12:49] <addikt1ve> or will the discussions be open
[12:49] <Tm_T> by needs
[12:50] <karl> is this the place to be for pykde4?
[12:50] <Tm_T> it discussion is on time and on topic, can't see reason why to moderate hard
[12:50] <Hobbsee> i have no idea
[12:50] <karl> this afternoon?
[12:50] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: good to see you too :)
[12:50] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:50] <Hobbsee> where's Riddell?
[12:51] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: washing his teeth and cone his hair, you know it's showtime!
[12:51] <Tm_T> almost rhymed
[12:51] <Tm_T> ok, I'm off, kids, remember, patience is a virtue
[12:51] <Tm_T> and have fun
[12:51] <Tm_T> ->
[12:51] <addikt1ve> baibai Tm_T
[12:52] <wolfger> 1 hour? Not by my clock...
[12:52] <wolfger> 2 hours
[12:52] <addikt1ve> wolfger, UTC
[12:52] <wolfger> or did teh intertubes calculate UTC-EST incorrectly?
[12:52] <wolfger> 1500 UTC, right?
[12:53] <addikt1ve> yep
[12:53] <wolfger> should be 1000 here
[12:53] <addikt1ve> it's 16h00 CET
[12:53] <addikt1ve> in UTC the "show" starts in 1h
[12:53] <addikt1ve> in CET it starts in 2h
[12:54] <addikt1ve> erf in fact
[12:54] <addikt1ve> FUCK
[12:54] <addikt1ve> i cant explain
[12:54] <addikt1ve> xD
[12:54] <stdin> !language > addikt1ve
[12:54] <addikt1ve> sry
[12:54] <wolfger> current UTC is 12:53
[12:54] <wolfger> 2 hours to the show
[12:54] <wolfger> unless you're saying worldtimeserver.com is wrong
[12:54] <addikt1ve> current CET is 13:54
[12:54] <addikt1ve> 2h to the show
[12:54] <wolfger> k
[12:54] <addikt1ve> thx :p you explained it quite good
[12:55] <wolfger> lol
[12:55] <wolfger> I think anybody listening is now confused beyond belief
[12:55] <wolfger> at least.. I was
[12:55] <addikt1ve> XD
[12:55] <addikt1ve> we are the win
[12:56] <addikt1ve> erf i cant spell it bad >< t eh win
[12:56] <wolfger> but you're lucky if you find 1 in 1,000 people who know what the hell UTC *is* in the USA
[12:56] <Hobbsee> well, that's the USA for you
[12:56] <Hobbsee> they tend not to even know where australia is.
[12:57] <wolfger> somewhere down South
[12:57] <wolfger> :-P
[12:57] <igknighted> i refuse to believe that... we love our kangaroos
[12:57] <igknighted> :P
[12:57] <addikt1ve> XD
[12:57]  * Hobbsee looks
[12:57] <Hobbsee> 2 hours
[12:57] <addikt1ve> kangaroos rock
[12:57] <addikt1ve> yep, 2h.
[12:58] <igknighted> is there a list of packages we should have installed for this?
[12:59] <AddiKT1ve> oh i didnt log in
[12:59] <AddiKT1ve> lol thats why i failed to send PM
[12:59] <harolddong> can I install the svn of amarok 2 with the new kde4 rc2 build?  will it mess up my current amarok 1.4.8 install?
[12:59] <cheguevara> morning
[13:00] <harolddong> I'd really like to try amarok 2 but I dont know if I can install them side by side
[13:00] <cheguevara> yes u can
[13:00] <harolddong> and it wont overwrite my current amarok?
[13:01] <cheguevara> nop
[13:02] <harolddong> awesome thanks I'll give it a shot
[13:02] <harolddong> when is the new menu going to be included in kde4
[13:03] <harolddong> I can't say for the current one
[13:03] <harolddong> *cant say much for it
[13:03] <Riddell> dirk? Beineri?  uh oh, I'd better prepare something :)
[13:03] <jessy_james> ciao
[13:04] <Artemis_Fowl> The Tutorial Day begis in 2 hours?
[13:04] <AddiKT1ve> yep
[13:04] <Beineri_> Riddell: ;-)
[13:04] <AddiKT1ve> 4pm CET :p
[13:04] <AddiKT1ve> isnt it wolfger
[13:05] <sigma> how exactly is this tutorial going to work?
[13:05] <Riddell> Hobbsee: where's me?
[13:06] <Hobbsee> Riddell: apparently you're there.
[13:06] <dirk> Riddell: hmm, you're not broadcasting yourself on youtube? (of course with naked chicks dancing in the background?)
[13:06]  * PJC121 is tutorial ready
[13:06] <PJC121> or ready for lol
[13:07] <ardchoille> two more hours
[13:07] <PJC121> yeppers, I'm early, what can I say
[13:07] <PJC121> :)
[13:07] <Riddell> sigma: I'm hoping the speakers can just chat here and people can follow along
[13:08] <Riddell> hopefully we don't need to restrict who can speak on channel
[13:08] <txwikinger2> Hobbsee: Where is Australia?
[13:08] <Hobbsee> txwikinger2: :P
[13:09] <cheguevara> where's tonio these days
[13:09] <Riddell> working hard mostly
[13:09] <Hobbsee> working
[13:09] <cheguevara> ah
[13:11] <Riddell> Hobbsee: poke poke, could you raise the priority of kdepimlibs/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu3
[13:12] <sigma> Riddell: oh ok i see, this is the first time im attending a tutorial on irc, hope il learn something new
[13:13] <Riddell> it's the first time we've held them, we'll all be learning something new :)
[13:14] <Hobbsee> Riddell: oh, fudge.
[13:14] <cheguevara> lol has it still not built
[13:14] <Hobbsee> Riddell: done
[13:15] <sigma> ah ok i see!
[13:17] <cheguevara> Riddell: is it correct that install of kdebase-workspace causes the removal of kdebase-bin-kde3
[13:18] <Riddell> cheguevara: yes, that's fine if kdebase-runtime-bin-kde4 gets installed
[13:19] <cheguevara> ah ok
[13:19] <cheguevara> 'cause it seems to be finally installable now
[13:19] <cheguevara> no more broken deps
[13:19] <Riddell> cheguevara: hardy i386?
[13:19] <cheguevara> yep
[13:19] <Riddell> golly
[13:20] <cheguevara> though
[13:20] <cheguevara> it wants to remove my java 7
[13:20] <cheguevara> for some unknown reason
[13:20] <Riddell> possibly libgif/libungif
[13:21] <cheguevara> yep
[13:21] <cheguevara> was about to say that
[13:21] <Riddell> Hobbsee: could you also raise the priority of kdebase-workspace/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu5 kdebase-kde4/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu4 kdebase-runtime/4:3.97.0-1ubuntu4
[13:23]  * wolfger joins yet another channel... 
[13:24] <cheguevara> wolfger, at least you don't follow channels for 2 different distros
[13:25]  * wolfger rejoins #gentoo just for the heck of it
[13:25] <Hobbsee> Riddell: done, but it would be nice if kde didn't have quite so many builds.  lamont's getting antsy about getting it to build on the slower arches.
[13:26] <cheguevara> am too scared to be in  #gentoo, too much traffic just idle in #gentoo-dev
[13:26] <cheguevara> apperentely kdm-kde4 doesn't configure again
[13:27] <cheguevara> Setting up kdm-kde4 (4:3.97.0-1ubuntu5) ...
[13:27] <cheguevara> dpkg: error processing kdm-kde4 (--configure):
[13:27] <cheguevara>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
[13:27] <nosrednaekim> tutorials start in an hour and a half, right?
[13:27] <jpatrick> yep
[13:28] <elisiano> cheguevara: what about setting debug for postinst script?
[13:30] <cheguevara> whats the best way to do that, 'cause my packaging knowlege is close to 0
[13:32] <elisiano> mine too, never packaged, I just edit the postinst script (usually /var/lib/dpkg/info/PACKAGE.postinst) and add -x to the interpreter
[13:32] <elisiano> but maybe it's not the best way to go
[13:34] <cheguevara> ah thats an idea elisiano :P
[13:35] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: can you give back krita-plugins 1.6.3-0ubuntu1 - it builds now that the transition for libopenxre thingy is done
[13:35]  * txwikinger2 has a headache
[13:36]  * txwikinger2 just got 120k worth of laptops delivered
[13:36] <cheguevara> http://pastebin.ca/814596
[13:37] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: givne back on ia64
[13:37] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: thank you
[13:38] <elisiano> cheguevara: i had the same issue
[13:39] <elisiano> u shoud try to assign DEFAULT_DISPLAY_MANAGER=kdm
[13:39] <elisiano> instead of DEFAULT_DISPLAY_MANAGER=kdm-kde4
[13:39] <cheguevara> hmmm
[13:40] <cheguevara> right brb kde4 time
[13:41] <elisiano> #
[13:41] <elisiano> + which kdm-kde4
[13:41] <elisiano> #
[13:41] <elisiano> + DAEMON_NAME=
[13:41] <elisiano> that's the problem
[13:41] <cheguevara> yeah
[13:41] <elisiano> lines 40-41
[13:42] <cheguevara> DAEMON_NAME var ends up empty
[13:42] <elisiano> yup
[13:43] <cheguevara> but really brb
[13:51] <cheguevara> still doesn't start without compositing disabled in xorg.conf :P
[13:52] <cheguevara> and i had to "touch .kde4/share/config/startupconfig" for some reason to get it to load
[13:52] <nosrednaekim> cheguevara: kdm-kde4 or kde4?
[13:53] <cheguevara> kde4
[13:53] <nosrednaekim> cheguevara: ah, well, just be glad its running :D
[13:53] <nareshov> heh
[13:53] <cheguevara> yeah not really complaining lol
[13:53] <elisiano>  :)
[13:54] <cheguevara> when things don't work in rc3 thats when i'll start complaining :P
[13:54] <nareshov> :P
[13:54] <nosrednaekim> if there is an RC3
[13:55] <nosrednaekim> ok, bye everyone! be back in an hour
[13:55] <elisiano> @now
[13:55] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: December 13 2007, 13:55:35 - Current meeting: Desktop Team Development
[13:55] <unknownuser> can someone tell me with the chat today be saved some were?
[13:56] <nosrednaekim> elisiano: what? its sarting now?
[13:56] <elisiano> it says so
[13:56] <cheguevara> yes it will be
[13:56] <nosrednaekim> thought it started at 15:00
[13:56] <stdin> !logs
[13:56] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
[13:56] <cheguevara> not sure where though
[13:56] <unknownuser> the time says one the web 15:00
[13:56] <kwwii> yes, it is starting in a bit, but that is the ubuntu desktop team, not the kubuntu stuff
[13:56] <elisiano> 15:00 is in 4 minutes my time
[13:56] <nosrednaekim> and the meeting is here...
[13:56] <elisiano> (GMT+1)
[13:57] <nosrednaekim> precisely..
[13:57] <jpatrick> it starts in an hour
[13:57] <kwwii> the kubuntu meeting was last night
[13:57] <kwwii> jpatrick: no, it starts in a couple of minutes
[13:58] <Riddell> tutorials are in an hour
[13:58] <jpatrick> kwwii:
[13:58] <jpatrick> ^^ :)
[13:58] <unknownuser> thankyou for the logs see you guys soon
[13:58] <cheguevara> might as well go read ubuntu meeting for now
[13:58] <kwwii> ok, I'll shut up
[13:58] <nareshov> yay
[13:59] <nareshov> I'll have dinner by then
[13:59] <nareshov> digiKam is neat :)
[13:59] <mihael> CET is one hour before UTC
[13:59] <cheguevara> may be they'll talk about gnome getting some features :P
[13:59] <nareshov> I'm on IST
[13:59] <mihael> turtuil will start in a hour
[14:01] <pvandewyngaerde> its 15.00 here
[14:02] <sigma__> you aren't in the utc timezone
[14:04] <karl> back
[14:05] <fadey> hi
[14:06] <CeoN> so still 1hour left?
[14:06] <nareshov> 55min
[14:06] <CeoN> ok :)
[14:07] <nixternal> Riddell: did you get Mark Summerfields "Rapid GUI Programming with Python and Qt"? freakin' amazing book. The best Python book I have read yet. I think I learned more Python from that book than I have from any other book
[14:08] <Riddell> nixternal: I havn't
[14:08] <nareshov> Qt4 ?
[14:08] <nixternal> yes
[14:09] <nixternal> I think I now have more Python books than any bookstore
[14:09] <nareshov> heh
[14:09] <cheguevara> lol
[14:10] <wolfger> ...so I get the impression I'm going to be learning Python if I keep coming around here, eh?
[14:10] <nixternal> wolfger: I guess...cuz I am attempting to learn it myself
[14:11] <nixternal> I still am not a fan of it, but that is slowly changing day by day
[14:11] <dthacker> Hi, I'm triaging bug 175684.  about dolphin.   Is the user's complaint really desired behavior?
[14:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175684 in dolphin "dolphin does not keep selected file on dir list update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175684
[14:12] <nixternal> I thought there was already a bug for that issue
[14:12] <dthacker> nixternal: didn't see one on search....
[14:12] <nixternal> never mind
[14:12] <nixternal> I was thnking of another boog
[14:12] <wolfger> dthacker: I think the user's asking for something good
[14:12] <nareshov> dthacker: didn't see this? http://www.qtrac.eu/pyqtbook.html
[14:12] <wolfger> would be exceptionally annoying, especially on a multi-user system
[14:14] <dthacker> nareshov: ?? nixternal bought the book,  I'm still playing with ruby for two other projects.
[14:14] <nareshov> oh
[14:14] <dthacker> wolfger: I'll confirm and throw it in the lap of the gods.
[14:19] <darx> i'm looking for the devel tuts. am i in the right place?
[14:19] <meven> ys
[14:19] <meven> darx: yes you are
[14:19] <wolfger> 41 minutes...
[14:20] <darx> hola... nebody home?
[14:20] <darx> cool
[14:20] <meven>  darx : isn't it ?
[14:20] <meven> be patient
[14:20] <darx> righty ;-)
[14:21] <\sh> moins
[14:23] <sigma> i hope theres more than 175 people attending the tutorial
[14:24] <nixternal> OG!
[14:24] <nixternal> what are you doing in here spying?
[14:24] <\sh> moins og :)
[14:24] <nixternal> BUSTED! :p
[14:24] <nareshov> :P
[14:24] <sigma> lol
[14:24] <OgMaciel> \sh: dude!!!!
[14:25] <OgMaciel> nixternal: hehehe  I always wanted to check out pyQt stuff
[14:25] <nixternal> careful of them Koresight dudes and their Konary :)
[14:25] <OgMaciel> \sh: how it goes?
[14:25] <nareshov> hehe
[14:25] <OgMaciel> nixternal: Koresight  HAHAHAha
[14:25] <\sh> OgMaciel, boring...waiting to leave this fcking company
[14:25] <OgMaciel> \sh: OH? SORRY TO HEAR DUDE
[14:25] <OgMaciel> oops
[14:25] <OgMaciel> sorry for caps too
[14:26] <\sh> OgMaciel, no...new job is already in place :)
[14:26]  * OgMaciel kicks his keyboard
[14:26] <nixternal> OgMaciel: 4 minutes? I did it in 2 minutes 48 seconds from the time the gui came up to the time it said to reboot :)
[14:26] <OgMaciel> \sh: are you coming to work at rPath? ;)
[14:26] <OgMaciel> nixternal: the KDE version is quicker
[14:26] <nixternal> it always is, when are you gnome people going to learn? :p
[14:27] <nareshov> :P
[14:27] <nixternal> muhehehe
[14:27] <\sh> OgMaciel, nope...just doing my usual stuff...sysadmin work :)
[14:27]  * OgMaciel throws a flying crutch at nixternal
[14:27] <nixternal> oh man, here we go again
[14:27] <OgMaciel> :)
[14:28] <OgMaciel> nixternal: I'm running out of crutches with you
[14:28] <nixternal> does anyone else get flying crutches as much as I do
[14:28]  * txwikinger2 is leaving for home... back in a bit
[14:28] <nixternal> hahaha
[14:28] <OgMaciel> nixternal: Ken Vandine
[14:28] <nixternal> whew, good to know, whack the bossman with um
[14:28] <OgMaciel> nixternal: the poor guy has to work wearing a helmet these days
[14:28] <Hobbsee> !visternal
[14:28] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[14:29] <\sh> OgMaciel, sorry to read that you were not voted into the g-board
[14:29] <nixternal> oh man, Hobbsee you are the bestest!
[14:29] <Hobbsee> :P
[14:29] <nixternal> Hobbsee: http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/burning.jpg
[14:29] <OgMaciel> \sh: thanks dude... I was fairly happy with getting 49 votes! I was expecting less
[14:29] <Hobbsee> haha
[14:29] <OgMaciel> better luck enxt time, huh?
[14:29] <nixternal> that tripped me out when I seen that
[14:30] <nareshov> heh, it's burning :P
[14:30] <wolfger> lol... that's fanatastic
[14:30]  * OgMaciel blames nixternal and the drought in North Carolina
[14:30] <OgMaciel> :P
[14:30] <\sh> OgMaciel, my pleasure is, that I was the bad guy who convinced you to do some "real work" ,-)
[14:30] <nixternal> hey, don't blame me, we have plenty of liquid here in chicago...its just that it is currently frozen :)
[14:31] <OgMaciel> \sh: hahahaha  and I will never "forgive" you :)
[14:31]  * OgMaciel plots a way to get frozen-liquid water from Chicago down to NC
[14:31] <nixternal> snowballs!
[14:31] <OgMaciel> w00t
[14:31] <nixternal> screw flyin' crutches, we have snowballs!
[14:31] <OgMaciel> hahaha
[14:32] <OgMaciel> nixternal: two words: FROZEN crutches
[14:32]  * Hobbsee sends the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™ in nixternal's direction
[14:32] <nixternal> actually ice balls is more like it right now
[14:32] <nixternal> hahahahaha
[14:32] <OgMaciel> :P
[14:32] <nixternal> why am I the butt of everyone's deadly object this morning? :P
[14:32] <Hobbsee> *this* morning?
[14:32] <wolfger> what? Your butt is a deadly object?
[14:32] <OgMaciel> hahaha
[14:32] <nixternal> haha, true
[14:32] <Hobbsee> surely not every morning....and every afternoon and evening?
[14:32] <wolfger> oh, sorry, I heard that wrong :-D
[14:32] <\sh> good to know that we have some mulled wine these days
[14:33] <nixternal> wolfger: hahaha
[14:33]  * OgMaciel glad he sent nixternal those shorts with a target drawn in the back
[14:33] <cheguevara> :P
[14:33] <nareshov> :P
[14:33] <nixternal> OgMaciel: ya, don't wear those in jail
[14:33] <OgMaciel> HAHAHAHA
[14:33] <cheguevara> lol
[14:33]  * OgMaciel has some unit tests to finish this morning
[14:34] <nixternal> OgMaciel: Kubuntu rocks so hard, that we brought back El Che!
[14:34] <OgMaciel> ay caramba!
[14:34] <nixternal> hahaha
[14:34] <OgMaciel> :)
[14:34]  * \sh is only angry at his wife, when no cold beer is in the fridge after breakfast
[14:34] <OgMaciel> nothing like some beer in your pancakes
[14:34] <nixternal> hahaha, no cold beer after breakfast....that is classic
[14:34] <nixternal> beerios!
[14:34] <OgMaciel> COLD beer that is
[14:35]  * Hobbsee confiscates all the beer
[14:35]  * OgMaciel runs
[14:35]  * nixternal hides his beer
[14:35]  * OgMaciel trips without his crutches
[14:35] <cheguevara> lol
[14:35] <nixternal> lol
[14:35]  * OgMaciel spills his beer in nixternal
[14:35] <cheguevara> in where :P
[14:35] <OgMaciel> hahahaha
[14:35] <birunko> hahahaah
[14:36] <nixternal> as long as you spilled in me that is cool, better than on me...didn't want to have to suck my clothes dry for a buzz
[14:36]  * Hobbsee throws OgMaciel at nixternal
[14:36]  * OgMaciel ponders what to do with all the beer spilt
[14:36] <OgMaciel> weeeee
[14:36]  * nixternal throws nixternal at Hobbsee 
[14:36] <OgMaciel> BULLS EYE
[14:36] <nixternal> booyahkah
[14:36] <\sh> NOW this is christmas... a gnome foundation candidate and a KDE priest are "cuddling" together in a kubuntu channel ... how peaceful, thx, it's christmas ,-)
[14:36]  * Hobbsee is too small to attempt to throw things at
[14:36]  * dennda drops in and hugs everyone
[14:36] <nareshov> heh
[14:36] <nixternal> \sh: hahahahah
[14:36] <OgMaciel> \sh: hehehe
[14:36] <Hobbsee> urg.  christmas.
[14:36] <Hobbsee> CHRISTMAS IS CANCELLED.   KTHXBYE.
[14:36] <nixternal> lol
[14:37] <cheguevara> lol
[14:37]  * OgMaciel hopes nixternal will keep his shorts on
[14:37] <wolfger> that's ok, I already got my xmas gift
[14:37] <nixternal> I wonder if that guy is going to create another Ubuntu Christmas Edition..that was pretty slick last year
[14:37] <wolfger> early presents rock
[14:37] <\sh> kill -SIGXMAS 666
[14:37]  * Hobbsee will acknowledge christmas on dec 24, 10.15pm, and not a moment before.
[14:37]  * OgMaciel hides his red outfit
[14:37] <Hobbsee> (when i stop working)
[14:37] <OgMaciel> I even let my belly grow
[14:37] <nixternal> isn't Christmas as insane every where else around the world like it is here in the US?
[14:38] <OgMaciel> nixternal: prolly not
[14:38] <wolfger> not that I've noticed
[14:38] <nixternal> here in the US, people will kill over that damn Thomas The Train toy
[14:38] <cheguevara> it is in eu
[14:38] <cheguevara> well may be not as much
[14:38] <\sh> well, at last in germany the past changed into "christmas starts after easter"
[14:38] <Hobbsee> nixternal: we just get some *really* stupid, dazed customers.
[14:38]  * OgMaciel avoids going to malls during this time of the year
[14:38] <nareshov> hehe
[14:38] <nixternal> OgMaciel: me too
[14:38] <nixternal> www.amazon.com!
[14:38] <wolfger> I was in Germany in mid-December a few years back, and it didn't seem to be nearly so nuts
[14:39] <OgMaciel> nixternal: amen!
[14:39] <nareshov> thank god there's not much of a christmas in india :D
[14:39] <Hobbsee> like, doing their shopping, leaving it all behind.  leaving wallets, etc.  not thinking that they have to hand over money to pay.  sheep mentality with queues.
[14:39] <nixternal> the only thing I didn't get on Amazon were earing for my x-wife
[14:39] <Hobbsee> general idiocy (yes, there are multiple accounts on cards)
[14:39] <\sh> wolfger, germany is changing...
[14:39] <nixternal> and the Hollister clothes my daughter has been going nuts over
[14:39] <OgMaciel> nixternal: what about MY gift?
[14:39] <OgMaciel> :P
[14:40] <nixternal> OgMaciel: I just did return to sender on the shorts, you should be getting them shortly
[14:40] <OgMaciel> used???
[14:40] <nixternal> shorts, shortly, you like that :p
[14:40] <OgMaciel> ewww
[14:40] <nixternal> looks like the Indy 500 in um
[14:40] <OgMaciel> HAHAHAHAHA
[14:40]  * OgMaciel vomits a bit
[14:40] <nixternal> hahahhaha
[14:40]  * OgMaciel needs more caffeine
[14:40] <OgMaciel> and beer
[14:40] <OgMaciel> :)
[14:40] <nixternal> haha
[14:41] <nixternal> OgMaciel: www.drinkfour.com
[14:41] <nixternal> there you go, beer + caffeine
[14:41]  * OgMaciel gullibly clicks on link
[14:41] <dennda> \sh: didn't notice the change
[14:41] <nixternal> specialKevin brought some of that to a lug meeting a couple of weeks ago
[14:41] <nixternal> you get drunk, but you never pass out
[14:41] <DreadKnight> will Mark Shuttleworth join us?
[14:41] <nareshov> :D
[14:41] <nixternal> hahahahahahahahaa
[14:42] <nixternal> DreadKnight: that was the funniest thing I have read all morning
[14:42] <OgMaciel> nixternal: niiiice
[14:42] <nixternal> we have someone bigger than Mark...we have JR himself
[14:42] <birunko> ahahah
[14:42] <DreadKnight> JR?
[14:42] <nixternal> as well as Hobbsee and her pointy stick of doom
[14:42] <nixternal> Jonathan Riddell!
[14:42] <DreadKnight> :|
[14:42] <DreadKnight> let me google..
[14:42] <Hobbsee> mmm...pointy...
[14:42] <\sh> dennda, in my times when I was a child, xmas started only one or two weeks before the 24th in shops...now it starts already beginning of oktober
[14:43] <nixternal> DreadKnight: he is the Canonical madman behind Kubuntu
[14:43] <DreadKnight> nixternal: woop ^_^
[14:43] <dennda> \sh: true
[14:43] <nixternal> plus, you would have to support KDE or Kubuntu first before you would show up in here :)
[14:43] <DreadKnight> that's great... me = new KDE lover
[14:43] <nixternal> OK, that was a low blow in Jucato's name there
[14:44] <DreadKnight> i converted from GNOME / Ubuntu recently ;)
[14:44] <OgMaciel> "premium malt beverage with caffeine, wormwood oil, taruine, guarana, natural and artificial flavors and certified color (fo&c red #40)"
[14:44] <nixternal> hehe
[14:44] <OgMaciel> got to love Red #40
[14:44] <nixternal> and it is tasteful as well
[14:44]  * Hobbsee ponders the various evil of attending this session from a gnome session.
[14:44] <nixternal> 6% alc by volume == watch out now, going down hard
[14:44] <OgMaciel> 6%??? bah
[14:44] <nixternal> hehe
[14:44]  * Hobbsee thinks that's about as bad as where she was going to attend her core dev application from MS windows, and putty :P
[14:44]  * OgMaciel does mouth wash with 6%
[14:45] <nixternal> hahhahhahahaha
[14:45] <nixternal> Hobbsee: that is classic...going for core-dev from behind the evil empire!
[14:45] <OgMaciel> no wonder my morning routine is all but a blur to me
[14:45] <nixternal> lol
[14:45] <Hobbsee> nixternal: i didnt' end up doing that
[14:45] <Hobbsee> nixternal: i ended up being albe to come home.
[14:45] <nixternal> Hobbsee: can't be any worse than working on Kubuntu from my desk at Microsoft :)
[14:46]  * OgMaciel will go back to his unit testing and will read the log later
[14:46] <Hobbsee> nixternal: so, i was on a conference call, with various canonical types, and matt's tryign to hold this core dev meeting - but i'm on the phone, along with one of the TB, so we were all late :P
[14:46] <nixternal> all in good fashion
[14:46] <nixternal> have fun OgMaciel
[14:46] <OgMaciel> :)
[14:46] <DreadKnight> any blender users around here?
[14:46] <elisiano_> nixternal: are you workong in MS and have a kubuntu desktop?
[14:46] <nixternal> I can even use Tuxpaint, so that would be a no here
[14:47] <elisiano_> do they consider you a terrorist or what?
[14:47] <Ishmayeck> I kinda play with blender from time to time...
[14:47] <nixternal> elisiano_: yup
[14:47] <DreadKnight> xD
[14:47] <Hobbsee> DreadKnight: yeah, FSVO user
[14:47] <Ishmayeck> and hello folks :)
[14:47] <nixternal> the whole time I worked at Microsoft, I never used Windows :)
[14:47] <birunko> lol
[14:47] <elisiano_> nixternal: seriously, are you allowed to do that?
[14:47] <DreadKnight> Hobbsee: what's that?
[14:47] <nixternal> there were a select few of us that worked on Solaris, BSD, and Linux
[14:47] <Hobbsee> for some value of
[14:47] <DreadKnight> :)
[14:47] <nixternal> elisiano_: we sure were
[14:47] <elisiano_> :O
[14:48] <birunko> that's new for me
[14:48] <\sh> nixternal, you worked for microsoft and never worked with their software? guess: you were a bouncer ,-)
[14:48] <dholbach> oopsie, one ctrl-w too much
[14:48] <elisiano_> never thought that M$ used non M$ operating systems, even for servers
[14:48] <elisiano_> lol
[14:48] <birunko> hehe
[14:48] <nixternal> \sh: hehe, we worked with their software, but at the time they were working on a shared source api for *nix...that obviously never took off
[14:49] <nixternal> elisiano_: microsoft has a nice server farm of HP-UX equipment
[14:49] <elisiano_> :O
[14:49] <nixternal> they do a lot of interoperable testing actually
[14:49] <elisiano_> omg, and I never considered working for M$
[14:49] <nixternal> they make sure they can operate with *nix, while *nix can't operate with them :)
[14:49] <elisiano_> what a bitch-x I am
[14:49] <cheguevara> lol
[14:49] <_nix_> lol
[14:49] <birunko> lol
[14:49] <nixternal> only reason I did was because times were hard and their pay and benefits were great
[14:50] <nixternal> but our division was treated like crap
[14:50] <elisiano_> why u speak of it in the past? don't u work there anymore?
[14:50] <_nix_> am I late? this is the place for "Kubuntu Tutorials Day" right?
[14:50] <nixternal> we were the red headed step children...so much so that they didn't even allow us in Redmond, we had to stay in Chicago :)
[14:50] <freeflying> apachelogger_: arounds?
[14:50] <dthacker> .o0("oh I'm just workin' for Redmond, got those workin' for Redmond blues")
[14:51] <nixternal> haha
[14:51] <nixternal> I quit there and went back to school
[14:51] <elisiano_> O_o
[14:51] <nixternal> plus it got in the way of my addiction to Kubuntu
[14:51] <nixternal> ;)
[14:51] <dholbach> _nix_: you're right here - starting in ~10 minutes
[14:51] <pvandewyngaerde> nixternal:  backt to school ? did they brainwash you ?
[14:52] <krawek> @now
[14:52] <nixternal> pvandewyngaerde: nope...I was in the military, so schooling is free and I needed to take advantage of it
[14:52] <stdin> it's 14:52 krawek
[14:52] <\sh> nixternal, don't tell lies...you are working still for ballmer...and everything you learn from kde and kubuntu it goes into vista+1 codename "crash monkey"
[14:52] <nixternal> stdin: you the new ubotu?
[14:52] <nareshov> hehe
[14:52]  * dthacker notes that he still has time to microwave breakfast. brb
[14:52] <birunko> \sh, hahaahah
[14:52] <nixternal> actually the code name is "shit box"
[14:53] <stdin> nixternal: no, but poor ubotu is tired :p
[14:53] <DreadKnight> \sh: lol xD
[14:53] <birunko> he's a kinda of spy
[14:53] <pvandewyngaerde> date --utc
[14:53] <\sh> Riddell, come here and pray us pykde4 ,-)
[14:53] <cheguevara> yay for xorg crashing
[14:53] <nixternal> hey, I am not the only dev in these neck of the woods that worked for microsoft
[14:53] <nixternal> but I took an oath to never tell on that person :)
[14:53] <nixternal> do you realize what Microsoft looks like on a resume/cv?
[14:54] <elisiano_> where can I find the timetable of the today's classes?
[14:54] <elisiano_> :)
[14:54] <nixternal> absolutetly nothing, cuz companies don't care! :)
[14:54] <stdin> elisiano_: in the topic
[14:54] <apachelogger_> freeflying: hey
[14:54] <nixternal> watch out, that apachelogger_ dude is here spreading amarok cheer
[14:54] <elisiano_> shame on me, sorry stdin
[14:54]  * \sh is outing himself...he had an real SCO Unix in his past...payed :)
[14:55] <Hobbsee> \sh: s/payed/paid/ btw
[14:55] <apachelogger_> hm
[14:55] <apachelogger_> may I say
[14:55] <\sh> Hobbsee, thxc
[14:55] <Hobbsee> :)
[14:55] <apachelogger_> Amarok ROCKZ
[14:55] <nixternal> \sh: I was so close to working on SCO equipment for the hospitals around here, but they hired my buddy instead, and then the company tanked within the year :)
[14:55] <nareshov> true
[14:55] <Nightrose> nixternal: he is not the only one :P
[14:55] <apachelogger_> right
[14:55] <apachelogger_> the Nightrose is much worse
[14:55] <nixternal> oooh, even Nightrose is here
[14:55] <Nightrose> \o/ Amarok
[14:55] <AddiKT1ve> 5 minutes left :p
[14:55] <nixternal> YAY
[14:55] <jembouge> stdin: you're on every channel :p
[14:55] <Riddell> still 5 minutes :)
[14:55] <apachelogger_> meh
[14:55] <nixternal> EVERYONE PLEASE GIVE A WARM WELCOME AND A ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR OUR MAN
[14:56] <stdin> jembouge: not every channel, just 21 of them
[14:56] <nixternal> J O N A T H A N    R I D D E L L
[14:56] <pvandewyngaerde> stdin is the  irseek logbot
[14:56]  * xRaich[o]2x claps
[14:56] <apachelogger_> *cheer* *applaud*
[14:56] <birunko> lol
[14:56] <birunko> \o/
[14:56] <nareshov> *claps*
[14:56]  * simpsus applauds
[14:56] <jembouge> * applauds
[14:56] <nixternal> that was totally lame
[14:56] <lucky_lucas> *claps*
[14:56] <apachelogger_> gimme a J!
[14:56] <nixternal> J
[14:56] <nareshov> J
[14:56] <nixternal> hahah
[14:56] <xRaich[o]2x> WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
[14:56] <apachelogger_> gimme a O
[14:56] <birunko> hhaahahahah
[14:56] <nareshov> O
[14:56] <lucky_lucas> O
[14:56]  * jembouge hurray!
[14:56] <apachelogger_> gimme a N
[14:56] <nareshov> N
[14:56] <lucky_lucas> N
[14:56] <\sh> you are all soo crazy ,-)
[14:56] <apachelogger_> gimme a T
[14:56] <nareshov> T
[14:56] <birunko> t
[14:56] <lucky_lucas> T
[14:56] <nixternal> you spelled his name wrong!
[14:56] <apachelogger_> gimme an H
[14:56] <\sh> no wonder that kubuntu has a blue color ;)
[14:56] <nixternal> JONT
[14:57] <nareshov> H
[14:57] <birunko> haahah
[14:57] <nixternal> you forgot the A
[14:57] <apachelogger_> gimme an A
[14:57] <nareshov> A
[14:57] <apachelogger_> meh
[14:57] <lucky_lucas> hehe
[14:57] <apachelogger_> screw that
[14:57] <apachelogger_>  :P
[14:57] <nixternal> hahahahahahahaha
[14:57] <_nix_> yay john..
[14:57] <apachelogger_> JONATHAN
[14:57] <apachelogger_> *cheer*
[14:57] <apachelogger_> right
[14:57] <lucky_lucas> Yeah
[14:57] <apachelogger_> meh
[14:57] <apachelogger_> <-- totally outtyped
[14:57] <nareshov> hehe
[14:58] <apachelogger_> so
[14:58] <apachelogger_> how about some tea?
[14:58] <stdin> maybe some coffee
[14:58] <birunko> beer
[14:58] <Nightrose> yea tea for me please ;-)
[14:58] <stdin> !coffee | for all
[14:58] <ubotu> for all: coffee is a caffeinated beverage made by filtering water through ground up roasted beans of the coffee plant. Flavouring to taste such as milk or cream, sugar or sweetener are often added afterwards. Not to be confused with !java
[14:58] <limac> stdin: hey, when's the thing starting?
[14:59] <nixternal> 1 minute
[14:59] <apachelogger_> -.-
[14:59] <apachelogger_> I say 2
[14:59] <stdin> limac: in about a 40 secs :)
[14:59] <Reydan> :)
[14:59] <limac> stdin: schools closed because of snow day! :)
[14:59]  * apachelogger_ takes his seat
[14:59] <dholbach> we have a lot of excited people here! :)
[14:59] <limac> hah!
[14:59] <limac> here it comes!
[14:59] <nixternal> dholbach: always a good sign!
[14:59] <nixternal> everyone must be hopped up on caffeine
[14:59] <wolfger> w00t
[14:59]  * apachelogger_ looks into his schedule folder
[14:59] <kenny> i know i am
[14:59] <sigma> lets get the show on the road:)
[15:00] <txwikinger> hey .. just in time :)
[15:00] <Riddell> Good Afternoon Friends
[15:00] <Longfield> just in time
[15:00]  * wolfger is hopped up on "taking a vacation day to be here"
[15:00] <Riddell> is anyone here for the PyQt tutorial?
[15:00] <_nix_> Good Afternoon
[15:00] <limac> it 10:00 eastern
[15:00] <fmo> yes
[15:00] <limac> me
[15:00] <birunko> uha
[15:00] <pexi> yes
[15:00] <_nix_> yup
[15:00]  * nareshov raises his hand
[15:00] <kenny> yep
[15:00] <jussi01> Riddell: me!
[15:00] <dthacker> yep
[15:00]  * Hobbsee is here to take over the world.
[15:00] <Tolaris> yes
[15:00] <apachelogger_> Riddell: I'm voting for bug triage so that I can leave again :P
[15:00] <luis_lopez> yep
[15:00] <sigma> its exactly 5pm in south africa
[15:00] <wolfger> I'm here for everything
[15:00] <jussi01> !hobbsee | Hobbsee
[15:00] <ubotu> Hobbsee: I phear the stick so shhhhh
[15:00] <pvandewyngaerde> Pyes
[15:00] <Riddell> this channel has over doubled in size since it was announced, so some people must be
[15:00] <_nix_> 2030 in India
[15:00] <rebugger> its 4pm in germany
[15:00] <limac> here for everything
[15:00] <Panke> i am here for pykde.
[15:00] <nareshov> Yo _nix_
[15:01] <meven> 4pm in France too
[15:01] <limac> when is it starting?
[15:01] <xRaich[o]2x> i here for everything
[15:01] <Riddell> ok, now I look all important
[15:01] <nixternal> w00t
[15:01]  * dthacker is here for the day. took a vacation day
[15:01] <cheguevara> lol
[15:01] <Riddell> this is our first time of running this
[15:01] <Tolaris> I'm here for 15:00 UTC - 16:00 UTC: Packaging 101, not PyQT
[15:01] <Tolaris> :)
[15:01] <sigma> lol
[15:01] <AddiKT1ve> hai
[15:01] <Mondaar> ho..he has the "mark"
[15:01] <Riddell> it may be a complete disaster
[15:01] <AddiKT1ve> looks like everyone is conneting
[15:01] <nosrednaekim> hey everyone!
[15:01] <AddiKT1ve> connecting*
[15:01] <cheguevara> thats the spirit....
[15:02] <limac> so who is our tutor?
[15:02]  * magnetron is connecting
[15:02] <nareshov> limac: Riddell
[15:02]  * _nix_ gotta turn of JOINS PARTS QUITS
[15:02] <nosrednaekim> Riddell :D
[15:02] <Riddell> but hopefully we can help people learn something new and get into helping with Kubuntu, KDE and the causes of Freedom
[15:02] <nixternal> Riddell: Vista was a complete disaster, what you are about to do my friend, is rock the stage :)
[15:02] <apachelogger_> if it is a disaster we just do some hype promo :P
[15:02] <stdin> Tolaris: if you read the link in the topic, you'll see Packaging 101 is 17:00 UTC - 18:00 UTC
[15:02] <limac> Riddell: hey
[15:02] <DreadKnight> vista made me discover linux and open source software xD
[15:02] <Riddell> so, first thing, please keep discussion in #kubuntu
[15:02] <Riddell> else we'll be drowned out
[15:02] <nixternal> #kubuntu-offtopic rather
[15:02] <nareshov> will this chan be +m'ed ?
[15:02] <dthacker> perhaps #kubuntu-offtopic?
[15:03]  * Hobbsee_ kills konversation
[15:03] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: is this going to be run like OpenWeek was?
[15:03] <DreadKnight> #kubuntu_own_ye_all
[15:03] <Riddell> you can ask questions here, I'm hoping we won't need to play with channel modes
[15:03] <nareshov> or #kubuntu-classroom ?
[15:03] <Hobbsee> nareshov: not if we don't have to
[15:03] <nareshov> ok
[15:03] <Riddell> just a quick rundown, PyQt/KDE now
[15:03] <_nix_> nareshov: yo..
[15:03] <Riddell> bug triage in an hour
[15:03] <Tolaris> thanks, stdin. it would have been nice if the web page had been updated.
[15:03] <limac> yay
[15:03] <Riddell> bzr in 1.5 hours
[15:03] <Tolaris> See you later
[15:03] <Riddell> packaging at 17:00
[15:04] <Riddell> get it into the archives at 18:00
[15:04] <Riddell> and general Q&A at 19:00
[15:04] <limac> so when r we beginning?
[15:04] <Riddell> all times UTC
[15:04] <Riddell> lets start
[15:04] <limac> too anxious!
[15:04] <limac> yay!
[15:04] <Riddell> for this tutorial you'll need to apt-get install python-qt4
[15:04] <Riddell> if you're lucky you may be able to apt-get install python-kde4
[15:04] <Riddell> but it's still compiling away on some platforms, so it's not required
[15:05] <Riddell> you'll also need to  apt-get install qt4-designer
[15:05] <mihas> y
[15:05] <kwilliam> ok
[15:05] <Riddell> files for the tutorial are at http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/
[15:05] <Riddell> the slides at http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/04-pyqt-tutorial.pdf I used for a tutorial earlier this year
[15:06] <Riddell> and the first file you need is http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/hola.py
[15:06] <DreadKnight> !root pykde
[15:06] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about root pykde - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[15:06] <Riddell> this is the world's easiest python app
[15:06] <Riddell> #!/usr/bin/python
[15:06] <Riddell> print "hola"
[15:06] <Riddell> just prints out a message on the console
[15:06] <Riddell> Python, as you should know, is a programming language
[15:06] <Riddell> it's many times easier than C++
[15:07] <Riddell> and many many times easier than C
[15:07] <Riddell> it's the perferred language for apps in Ubuntu distros
[15:07] <DreadKnight> who wants to be my python tutor? ^^
[15:07] <kwilliam> hmm, I got a timeout on hola.py
[15:07] <Riddell> it has its faults as Ruby programmers will say
[15:07] <Straphka> is that the only content of hola.py? I cant download it
[15:07] <nareshov> me too, contacting...
[15:08] <mihas> got a timeout too, server busy :)
[15:08] <cheguevara> doesn't load for me either
[15:08] <nareshov> contacted. Waiting for reply...
[15:08] <simpsus> me too
[15:08] <nareshov> DreadKnight: you might want to read diveintopython
[15:08] <birunko> still busy
[15:08] <limac> python is way easier than c++: true, i agree
[15:08] <limac> and c
[15:08] <Riddell> you can also get the files from http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tutorials-day/python/
[15:08] <cheguevara> thats better :P
[15:08] <nareshov> hola.py - lol
[15:09] <ropiku> can you please keep discussions on other channel ? it's hard to watch what Riddell says
[15:09] <Riddell> you can run the app with "python hola.py"
[15:09] <Riddell> or you can make it executable with "chmod 755 hola.py" and run "./hola.py"
[15:09] <kwilliam> much better download, thnx.
[15:09] <Riddell> is that working for everyone?
[15:09] <\sh> DreadKnight, visit  http://diveintopython.org/
[15:09] <cheguevara> yep
[15:09] <birunko> yup
[15:09] <meven> yep
[15:09] <DreadKnight> \sh: thanks :)
[15:09] <fmo> yes
[15:09] <limac> btw which one is more useful in general, c++ or python?
[15:09] <tobixx> got it
[15:10] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: sure
[15:10] <kenny> yes
[15:10] <DreadKnight> thats nice
[15:10] <Riddell> so let's get graphical
[15:10] <Riddell> hola2.py is a simple Qt application
[15:10] <limac> yup
[15:10] <Riddell> import sys
[15:10] <Riddell> from PyQt4.QtGui import *
[15:10] <Riddell> from PyQt4.QtCore import *
[15:10] <Riddell> is how it starts
[15:10] <Riddell> these tell python to load some libraries
[15:11] <Riddell> the sys library does a bunch of basic bits, this app uses it for command line arguments
[15:11] <Riddell> and the next two lines load the two more important Qt modules
[15:11] <Riddell> then below the app itself
[15:11] <Riddell> app = QApplication(sys.argv)
[15:11] <Riddell> button = QPushButton("hola")
[15:11] <Riddell> button.show()
[15:11] <Riddell> app.exec_()
[15:11] <Panke> is it a good habit too use import * for the modules?
[15:12] <Riddell> we create a QApplication and call it "app"
[15:12] <Riddell> Panke: you can also load individual Qt classes, but then you have to change the import line when you need a new class and that soon gets boring
[15:12] <dennda> Panke: you'd have to type PyQt4.QtGui.something all the time otherwise
[15:12] <Riddell> I don't think there's much memory disadvantage to just loading * in this case
[15:12] <Straphka> can't exec it, "can't read /var/mail/PyQt4.QtGui"
[15:12] <Straphka> that normal?
[15:12] <mihas> from: can't read /var/mail/PyQt4.QtGui
[15:12] <mihas> from: can't read /var/mail/PyQt4.QtCore
[15:12] <mihas> ./hola2.py: line 5: syntax error near unexpected token `('
[15:12] <mihas> ./hola2.py: line 5: `app = QApplication(sys.argv)'
[15:13] <Riddell> Straphka: I've no idea what's going on there
[15:13] <nareshov> worked for me :|
[15:13] <nosrednaekim> works fine for me.
[15:13] <blizzzek> import: unable to read X window image `'
[15:13] <Straphka> Riddell: ok, ill google it then
[15:13] <cheguevara> works fine here
[15:13] <nareshov> might need python-qt4-dev ?
[15:13] <dfitzg> worked for me... do you have python-qt4?
[15:13] <kenny> works for me as well
[15:13] <teppic> you need to run python hola2.py, you can't chmod and execute it directly (as it stands)
[15:14] <cheguevara> mihas, u forgot #!/usr/bin/python
[15:14] <Riddell> mihas: are you missing the import lines?
[15:14] <cheguevara> so its interpreting it as a bash script
[15:14] <Riddell> oh yes, that's my fault, you can add "#!/usr/bin/python" at the top
[15:14] <mihas> works now
[15:14] <cheguevara> yeah or just run it through python not directly
[15:14] <\sh> Riddell, change it to #!/usr/bin/env python ....it's better :)
[15:14] <kwilliam> or simply run 'python hola2.py'
[15:15] <kwilliam> no need to make it executable
[15:15] <Riddell> has anyone been able to install python-kde3?
[15:15] <dholbach> \sh: the debian policy is happier with  #!/usr/bin/python
[15:15] <Riddell> sorry
[15:15] <Riddell> python-kde4
[15:15] <kenny> no, not here
[15:15] <nareshov> Riddell: nope
[15:15] <meven> not me
[15:15] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: I have the 3.96 version
[15:15] <Riddell> it should be in the KDE 4 gutsy PPA
[15:15] <cheguevara> not on i386
[15:15] <Riddell> and may be in the hardy archives by now for i386
[15:15] <cheguevara> some of us are running hardy :P
[15:15] <\sh> dholbach, well,  we should not think only about debian ;) kde is happy on other distros too ;)
[15:15] <Straphka> Riddell: just fyi, it works, same prob as mihas
[15:16] <Riddell> if you have then take a look at hola2-kde.py
[15:16] <dholbach> \sh: oh man :)
[15:16] <cheguevara> let me apt-get update
[15:16] <xRaich[o]2x> python-kde4 works with the ppa repo
[15:16] <Riddell> Straphka: do you have the import lines? and are you running it with "python hola2.py" ?
[15:16] <cheguevara> E: Couldn't find package python-kde4
[15:16] <kenny> same error
[15:16] <Straphka> Riddell: I meant that I made it executable without specifying the interpeter
[15:17] <kenny> what's the repo for it?
[15:17] <stdin> cheguevara: you need the KDE4 PPA repository
[15:17] <Riddell> if you can't install python-kde4 don't worry
[15:17] <nareshov> ok
[15:17] <cheguevara> stdin, aint that PPA gutsy?
[15:17] <tobixx> ImportError: No module named PyKDE4.kdecore
[15:17] <Riddell> the package isn't available everywhere yet, it's very new
[15:17] <stdin> "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu/ gutsy main"
[15:17] <Riddell> only uploaded yesterday
[15:17] <cheguevara> stdin, hardy here
[15:17] <Riddell> and it's still experimental
[15:17] <Riddell> but it adds KDE integration so it can make apps feel more at home in KDE
[15:17] <Riddell> hola2-kde.py changes the Qt import lines
[15:17] <Riddell> from PyKDE4.kdecore import *
[15:17] <Riddell> from PyKDE4.kdeui import *
[15:18] <Riddell> so now we're loading up the KDE libraries (which in turn load up Qt)
[15:18] <Riddell> KDE also needs us to declaire some data about the app
[15:18] <Riddell> KCmdLineArgs.init(sys.argv, "pykdeapp", "", ki18n("PyKDE App"), "0.1", ki18n("My first app"));
[15:18] <Riddell> which tells it the name of the app and a description
[15:18] <Riddell> you also need to change QApplication to KApplication
[15:18] <Riddell> and voila, a PyKDE app
[15:19] <Riddell> anyone got it working?
[15:19] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: looks nice and oxygen-y to me :D
[15:19] <Riddell> excellent, gold star to nosrednaekim
[15:19] <kwilliam> yep! hey oxygen
[15:19] <mihas> nice
[15:19] <simpsus> No module named PyKDE4.kdecore
[15:19] <kenny> whats the ki18n for?
[15:19] <Riddell> simpsus: you probably don't have python-kde4 installed
[15:19] <mihas> but why button?
[15:19] <nareshov> some internationalization thing perhaps
[15:19] <D_Ed> ki18n translates to the user language
[15:19] <Riddell> kenny: ki18n() is for translations
[15:19] <Janz> Ridell: I'm trying to wait for best moment to ask that (specially when no one is having trouble) but, as I'm not finding (sorry), we'll see plasmoids development here, too?
[15:19] <Daisuke_Laptop> awww, i got here too late
[15:20] <simpsus> yes, its not there, but nevermind, ill skip this
[15:20] <DreadKnight> i18n it's the internationalization project
[15:20] <Riddell> mihas: a button is just a simple widget, we'll move on to a text edit in a moment
[15:20] <kenny> ok, cool, didn't know that
[15:20] <Riddell> any questions so far?
[15:20] <DreadKnight> any romanian people around here?
[15:20] <Janz> Ridell: I mean, later ...
[15:20] <Riddell> on topic questions I ment
[15:20] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: yes, how does it know that you want a qpuchbotton on that app?
[15:20] <stdin> DreadKnight: questions about the tutorial only please
[15:20] <Straphka> so we do not have to have python-kde4?
[15:21] <Janz> Riddell: really sorry for that.
[15:21] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: we create a button with button = QPushButton("hola")
[15:21] <Riddell> and show it on the next line
[15:21] <tseliot> Where can I find the examples ( hola2.py etc.) ?
[15:21] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: yes, but what if we have two qapplication instances?
[15:21] <Riddell> tseliot: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tutorials-day/python/
[15:21] <nareshov> ooh, the button is nice :)
[15:21] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: you can only have one QApplication instance
[15:21] <blizzzek> ImportError: No module named PyKDE4.QtGui <-- got this error
[15:21] <dholbach> hey tseliot
[15:21] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: but you can have more than one button if you want
[15:21] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: ah,ok thanks
[15:21] <nareshov> blizzzek: add the ppa repo
[15:22] <tseliot> riddel: thanks
[15:22] <Riddell> the final line, app.exec_() runs the main loop
[15:22] <tseliot> dholbach: hi
[15:22] <blizzzek> na, my error it seems
[15:22] <Riddell> most GUI applications spend most of their time sitting in the main loop waiting for things to ahppen
[15:22] <Riddell> like pressing the button
[15:22] <nareshov> oh, polling?
[15:22] <kenny> i added the ppa repo, but i keep getting kdebase-runtime-bin is a dependency, but it won't install it
[15:23] <meven> kenny: same by me
[15:23] <Riddell> nareshov: it's not polling, that would consume resources, it just sits and waits for something to happen
[15:23] <nareshov> okay
[15:23] <nosrednaekim> python-kde4 really isn't necesary everyone, almost everything is done preciself the same in python-qt4
[15:23] <Riddell> blizzzek: do you have python-qt4 installed?
[15:23] <Riddell> let's move on
[15:24] <Riddell> for this next trick you'll need qt4-designer installed
[15:24] <Riddell> which you run with "designer-qt4" (or from the k-menu)
[15:24] <blizzzek> Riddell: i have
[15:24] <Riddell> select a widget and click Create
[15:24] <Riddell> we're going to make a simple text editor
[15:24] <kenny> sweet
[15:25] <Riddell> Qt has a widget called QTextEdit
[15:25] <DreadKnight> riddell would you like to stream your screeny over the net?
[15:25] <bddebian> Heya
[15:25] <Riddell> which you can find in the designer toolbox under Input Widgets
[15:25] <Riddell> drag one of those to the blank widget (which is covered in a grid of dots)
[15:25] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tutorials-day/python/editor1-designer1.png
[15:25] <Riddell> looks like that
[15:26] <dthacker> my first changes are crashing.  where should the KCmdLineArgs line go?
[15:26] <Riddell> dthacker: first thing usually
[15:27] <dthacker> before imports?
[15:27] <Riddell> dthacker: after them
[15:27] <nareshov> right after that
[15:27] <Artemis_Fowl> includes you mean
[15:27] <dthacker> ok, other problems then
[15:27] <wolfger> I don't see a QTextEdit, just TextEdit. Same thing?
[15:27] <Riddell> qt designer working for people?
[15:27] <nareshov> yeah
[15:27] <Riddell> wolfger: that's the one
[15:27] <Artemis_Fowl> ah, its python talking
[15:27] <stijn_> ype
[15:27] <pexi>  yes, without problems
[15:28] <Riddell> now we fit the textEdit widget to the widget
[15:28] <nareshov> done
[15:28] <Riddell> click on the background of the widget (with the grid of dots)
[15:28] <Riddell> then click the "Lay Out Vertically" button in the designer toolbar
[15:28] <Riddell> you might need to make the toolbox window wider, it usually gets hidden
[15:29] <Riddell> you should end up with http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tutorials-day/python/editor1-designer2.png
[15:29] <Riddell> the TextEdit widget snaps to the edges of the widget
[15:29] <Riddell> working?
[15:29] <cheguevara> yep
[15:29] <meven> ok
[15:29] <pexi> yes
[15:29] <nareshov> yes
[15:29] <Riddell> save that file as editor.ui
[15:29] <Riddell> in the same place as your python apps are
[15:29] <kenny> yes
[15:30] <Riddell> you can also just get http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/editor.ui
[15:30] <Riddell> now we need an app to use our text edit
[15:30] <Riddell> http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/editor.py
[15:30] <nareshov> neat, some sort of xml
[15:30] <Riddell> yes, .ui files are just XML
[15:30] <xRaich[o]2x> nareshov: it is xml ;)
[15:30] <nareshov> heh, k
[15:30] <DreadKnight> Riddell: this text editor can be used as an plasma applet?
[15:30] <DreadKnight> a*
[15:31] <AddiKT1ve> DreadKnight, it would rock :o
[15:31] <Riddell> any user interface that's at all complex should be made in a GUI tool like Qt Designer
[15:31] <Riddell> otherwise you spend forever creating the widgets by hand and laying them out in your code
[15:31] <Riddell> editor.py is pretty similar to the previous examples
[15:31] <nareshov> I see
[15:32] <Riddell> DreadKnight: I don't know if plasma has python bindings yet, but once it gets those it can be
[15:32] <DreadKnight> i think Knotes will work with plasma...
[15:32] <DreadKnight> Riddell: i see, thanks :)
[15:32] <fmo> how well that is stretch with different screen resolutions?
[15:32] <Artemis_Fowl> Riddell: does Qt Designer support KDE widgets such as KTextEdit or KListWidget etc.?
[15:32] <Riddell> instead of creating a QPushButton we're making a QWidget which is a blank widget
[15:32] <Riddell> then we load our designer file onto that blank widget
[15:32] <nosrednaekim> Artemis_Fowl: yes
[15:32] <Riddell> Artemis_Fowl: yes it support KDE widgets if the plugins have been compiled
[15:33] <Riddell> so
[15:33] <Artemis_Fowl> and how is this done?
[15:33] <Riddell> widget = QWidget()
[15:33] <Riddell> uic.loadUi("editor.ui", widget)
[15:33] <Riddell> widget.show()
[15:33] <Riddell> create the blank widget
[15:33] <Riddell> load the designer file onto that widget
[15:33] <Riddell> and show the widget
[15:33] <Riddell> voila, a text editor app
[15:33] <nareshov> neat
[15:33] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: umm didn't we skip the pyuic4 step?
[15:33] <kenny> easy enough
[15:34] <kwilliam> wow... my kde session crashed.
[15:34] <anand> nice
[15:34] <nareshov> heh
[15:34] <kwilliam> whats happened?
[15:34] <Riddell> Artemis_Fowl: it should "just work" if all the packages are installed, but it hasn't been well tested and it may well not work with the Kubuntu packages yet
[15:34] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: we're not using pyuic4
[15:34] <Riddell> there's two ways to load .ui Designer files
[15:34] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: how is it loading the .ui file?
[15:34] <Riddell> you can compile them to code with uic (C++) or pyuic4 (python)
[15:34] <Riddell> or you can just miss that step and load them directly from the .ui file
[15:35] <Riddell> personally I don't see any advantage in compiling it, but it might be fractionally faster to run
[15:35] <kenny> is there a speed difference between either method?
[15:35] <cheguevara> nosrednaekim, uic.loadUi("editor.ui", widget)
[15:35] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: ah, ok, I see
[15:35] <kenny> ok
[15:35] <nareshov> we imported uic from PyQt4 ?
[15:35] <Riddell> I forgot we also need an import line
[15:35] <Riddell> "from PyQt4 import uic"
[15:35] <Riddell> so that's loading the pyQt module for handling .ui files
[15:35] <Riddell> uic is the .ui compiler
[15:35] <nareshov> ah
[15:35] <Riddell> kenny: try it and see, I doubt it's measurable
[15:35] <nosrednaekim> ok, great, I guess i'm still kinda stuck in qt3 ;)
[15:36] <Riddell> any more questions?
[15:36] <kenny> well, it was quick enough for me, i was just curious
[15:36] <DreadKnight> Riddell: will you start this all over again? xD
[15:36] <kenny> DreadKnight:  this thing is logged
[15:36] <nosrednaekim> DreadKnight: read the logs :D
[15:36] <DreadKnight> i know :)
[15:36] <kwilliam> yeah
[15:36] <nareshov> Riddell: how do you read line 8 ?
[15:36] <DreadKnight> not a coder >_<
[15:36] <Riddell> it's logged, and there's plenty of time for more guidance after these sessions if you're lost
[15:36] <kwilliam> what file are we working on? :-)
[15:36] <Riddell> nareshov: which line is that?
[15:36] <Riddell> kwilliam: editor.py
[15:36] <nareshov> uic.loadUi
[15:36] <Riddell> and editor.ui
[15:37] <kwilliam> ok
[15:37] <Riddell> nareshov: uic is the PyQt module we imported yearler
[15:37] <Riddell> loadUi is a function is has to load the .ui file
[15:37] <Riddell> Python is object orientated
[15:37] <nareshov> onto the "widget"?
[15:37] <nareshov> ok
[15:37] <Riddell> objects are data structures with variables and methods (functions)
[15:38] <Riddell> all the Qt widgets are objects
[15:38] <nareshov> okay
[15:38] <Riddell> and so it PyQt4.uic which has the method called loadUi
[15:38] <nareshov> ah
[15:38] <Daisuke_Laptop> sounds java-y
[15:38] <Artemis_Fowl> Riddell: seems to be working even though I use Kubuntu. not fully tested though.......
[15:38] <anand> are you going to talk about jambi (QT-Java)
[15:39] <Riddell> I should say that a widget is any graphical item on the screen, text boxes, buttons, scrollbars, toolbars, they're all widgets
[15:39] <Riddell> anand: not today
[15:39] <Riddell> lets move on to editor2.py
[15:39] <mihas> ok
[15:39] <kenny> yep
[15:39] <Riddell> go back to designer
[15:40] <Riddell> you should still have the text box we made earlier
[15:40] <Riddell> drag a PushButton from the toolbox to your widget, below the text box
[15:40] <Riddell> it should end up like http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/kubuntu-tutorials-day/pykde/editor2-designer1.png
[15:40] <Riddell> and Save As editor2.ui
[15:41] <Riddell> working?
[15:41] <Straphka> yur
[15:41] <cheguevara> aye
[15:41] <nosrednaekim> k
[15:41] <Riddell> so now we're going to add an action to our application
[15:41] <pexi> yes
[15:41] <Hobbsee> oh, grumble.  hal never properly upgrades in a chroot.
[15:41] <kenny> yep
[15:41] <Riddell> until now we've been creating widgets but not doing anything with them
[15:41] <nosrednaekim> Hobbsee: off-topic )
[15:41] <Riddell> to add an action we need to start making our own objects
[15:41] <nosrednaekim> ;)
[15:42] <Riddell> so take a look at editor2.py
[15:42] <Riddell> instead of just making a QWidget and using that
[15:42]  * Hobbsee sticks a few redback spiders down nosrednaekim's back, and heads in the direction of back
[15:42] <Riddell> we define our own object called Editor which is based on a QWidget
[15:42] <Hobbsee> er, bed.
[15:42] <Riddell> a template for an object is called a class
[15:42] <RinTinTigger> Hello
[15:43] <Riddell> class Editor(QWidget):
[15:43] <Riddell> there's our object template (class)
[15:43] <Riddell> and it includes a couple of functions
[15:43] <Riddell> in python there's a special function for each object with the lovely name of __init__(self):
[15:43] <Riddell> which is run whenever that object is created
[15:44] <nareshov> like the main() thing?
[15:44] <Riddell> nareshov: main() is when the application is running (in C/C++), this is a constructor
[15:44] <kenny> or more like an object constructor from c++?
[15:44] <nareshov> ah, a constructor thing?
[15:44] <Riddell> exactly
[15:44] <iRon> nareshov: like constructors in c++/java ..
[15:44] <nareshov> got it
[15:44] <kenny> woo hoo, i got something right!
[15:44] <Riddell> the first thing it has to do is run the init() for the QWidget
[15:45] <Riddell> then it loads our .ui file
[15:45] <Riddell> next, the exciting bit, we tell is what to do when someone clicks the button
[15:45] <Riddell> this is the Qt signal/slot mechanism
[15:45] <kwilliam> hurray!
[15:45] <Riddell> widgets have signals when something interesting happens
[15:45] <Riddell> you can find them in the Qt docs
[15:45] <nareshov> okay
[15:46] <Riddell> and we slot it into a function called save()
[15:46] <RinTinTigger> Sry....a question...is "Packaging 101" done already
[15:46] <Riddell> RinTinTigger: 15 minutes
[15:46] <kwilliam> no
[15:46] <_nix_> RinTinTigger: nope..
[15:46] <RinTinTigger> TY guys
[15:46] <Riddell> next is another method
[15:46] <stdin> RinTinTigger: see the link in the topic for session times
[15:46] <Riddell> (method is another name for function, it just means a bunch of lines of code with a name)
[15:46] <Riddell> the save() method will save the file
[15:47] <RinTinTigger> i saw...and thee was said they switched time with Pykde4 ...so.....no matter ill wait
[15:47] <Riddell> here all it's doing is printing out to the command line
[15:47] <Riddell> RinTinTigger: oh, it's an hour and 15 minutes, sorry
[15:47] <RinTinTigger> so like 6pm cet
[15:47] <Riddell> self.textEdit is our textEdit widget
[15:47] <Riddell> the name textEdit was given by Qt Designer
[15:48] <Straphka> so Editor gets all the functions defined in the ui file?
[15:48] <Riddell> and .toPlainText() is a method that QTextEdits have
[15:48] <Straphka> with the loadUi function I mean
[15:48] <Riddell> Straphka: it gets the names of objects defined
[15:48] <Straphka> Riddell: okis
[15:48] <Riddell> Straphka: the functions themselves, like .toPlainText, are defined by the Qt library
[15:49] <Straphka> but I get the ui stuff in the editor namespace
[15:49] <Riddell> you can see all the functions that a QTextEdit has at the all important Qt docs http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/qtextedit.html
[15:49] <Riddell> Straphka: I don't understand
[15:50] <Riddell> anyone got it working?
[15:50] <cheguevara> yeah works fine
[15:50] <pexi> yes
[15:50] <meven> yep
[15:50] <pexi> it's work fine
[15:50] <kwilliam> yes
[15:50] <nareshov> works fine
[15:50] <kenny> yep
[15:50] <Straphka> Riddell: I mean I get access to everythong defined in the .ui file from the Editor class (as in self.x, where x is defined in .ui)
[15:50] <aos101> yes
[15:50] <Straphka> everything*
[15:50] <Riddell> excellent excellent
[15:50] <kwilliam> Straphka: yes, i think so
[15:50] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: eh....I can't type in the text edit.
[15:51] <txwikinger> Straphka: If you click on the textEdit object in Qt4-designer and look at the property window you will see the name
[15:51] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: oh wait....duh,my error
[15:51] <Riddell> Straphka: you do indeed, loadUi() does clever things to create all the objects into the current class
[15:51] <darx> would the tutorial be archived and if yes where can i access it?
[15:51] <Straphka> Riddell: that was exactly my question:)
[15:51] <Riddell> darx: yes, I'll blog about that when it's done
[15:51] <darx> cool
[15:51] <nareshov> Riddell: what exactly is putting the text in the textEdit widget onto the console?
[15:52] <Riddell> nareshov: the save() method there
[15:52] <nareshov> oh, print
[15:52] <nareshov> right
[15:52] <nareshov> got it
[15:52] <Riddell> and save() is being run by our signal to slot connection
[15:52] <nareshov> neat
[15:52] <kenny> are we going to go over saving to a file?
[15:52] <Riddell> saving to a file is covered in editor3.py
[15:53] <Riddell> well, opening from a file is
[15:53] <Straphka> kenny: you could just do open(file, 'w') in python and write it out
[15:53] <Riddell> but I think we're out of time for that
[15:53] <kenny> cool, i jumped the gun there
[15:53] <kenny> Straphka:  thanks!
[15:53] <Riddell> you just need to add an "open" button and use a QFileDialog to select the file
[15:53] <Riddell> but we're out of time to cover it properly
[15:53] <nareshov> ah
[15:54] <kwilliam> are qt3 .ui files compatible with qt4?
[15:54] <Riddell> kwilliam: not at all
[15:54] <Riddell> kwilliam: but if you open them in qt4 designer it should convert it
[15:54] <kwilliam> Riddell: thank you
[15:54] <Riddell> so that's all we have time for
[15:54] <Riddell> remember the docs, Qt has the best library docs there are http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/
[15:55] <Riddell> and KDE has top docs too at api.kde.org
[15:55] <Straphka> Riddell: whatd the url of your blog?
[15:55] <Straphka> what's*
[15:55] <Riddell> and tutorials at techbase.kde.org
[15:55] <kwilliam> Thanks for the tutorial!
[15:55] <pexi> Riddell: thank you very much
[15:55] <nosrednaekim> and there are python translations of those docs too.
[15:55] <nareshov> Riddell: thanks a lot dude!
[15:55] <kenny> thanks a bunch, this was very helpful!!
[15:55] <Riddell> most of our Kubuntu specific programming is done in python
[15:55] <_nix_> Riddle: thanks a lot.. this will be useful
[15:55] <bazhang> thank you very much Riddell
[15:55] <xRaich[o]2x> good work, nice tutorial
[15:55] <luis_lopez> Ridell: Muchas gracias!
[15:55] <D_Ed> thanks.
[15:55] <Riddell> so stick around, and if you want to become an elite free software developer (it's easy really) just ask and we'll find something that needs done
[15:55] <daskreech> Hooray Riddell :)
[15:55] <fmo> Riddell:Thx a lot
[15:56] <aos101> Thanks. Great Tutorial.
[15:56] <_nix_> boy we still have 5 min here..
[15:56] <nosrednaekim> thanks... I definately learned something.
[15:56] <limac> man I missed it!
[15:56] <limac> :(
[15:56] <Riddell> the PyKDE packages are very new, still compiling for some platforms
[15:56] <_nix_> limac: its ok.. there should be downloadable logs somewhere
[15:56] <xRaich[o]2x> python looks quite nice but i guess i will stick with qt4/C++ ^^
[15:56] <PJC121> bah, I missed the first part, need your blog addy Riddell :) shame cos you did a great job
[15:56] <dthacker> tnx Riddell, if we have questions after reading the logs, where is the best place to ask them?
[15:56] <Riddell> but do give that a shot, techbase.kde.org is a wiki and is in need of tutorials
[15:56] <Riddell> my blog is on planet.ubuntu.com
[15:56] <PJC121> thank you
[15:57] <meven> Riddell: could we extend a little for further question
[15:57] <limac> _nix: where?
[15:57] <meven> in another chanel
[15:57] <Riddell> and quick questions?
[15:57] <daskreech> limac: Riddell will have a link in his blog
[15:57] <_nix_> limac: I dunno.. gotta find that out..
[15:57] <Riddell> we have a couple of minutes
[15:57] <Riddell> there's a lot of concepts involved in object orientated programming
[15:57] <Riddell> so if it's new to you can you got lost today, don't worry
[15:57] <meven> more or less i would like to ohow to make a toolbox like real text editor
[15:58] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: as dthacker asked, where's the best place for future questions?
[15:58] <nosrednaekim> meven: user ktextedit.
[15:58] <meven> otherwise i will use my browser no problem :)
[15:58] <nosrednaekim> *use
[15:58] <Straphka> Riddell: are there more widgets available than I see in designer?
[15:58] <Straphka> Riddell: liek the filedialog you mentioned
[15:58] <nareshov> Riddell: that desktop of yours in the screenshot - is that hardy?
[15:58] <Riddell> Straphka: plenty http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/classes.html
[15:59] <DreadKnight> kde4
[15:59] <Straphka> Riddell: I can add those to designer as well I mean?
[15:59] <Riddell> QFileDialogue is a full dialogue, you don't embed it in your own widgets, so it's not in designer
[15:59] <Straphka> Riddell: with the nice icon and all
[15:59] <cheguevara> Straphka, thats kde 4
[15:59] <Riddell> you can ask questions in #kubuntu afterwards or #kde-devel generally
[16:00] <Riddell> or here if it's Kubuntu related
[16:00] <Riddell> ok, time up
[16:00] <Straphka> cheguevara: eh?
[16:00] <cheguevara> sorry wrong nick lol
[16:00] <Straphka> oh:)
[16:00] <Riddell> txwikinger: how ready are you?
[16:00] <cheguevara> that was to nareshov , its kde4
[16:00] <txwikinger> I am ready Riddell
[16:00] <meven> thX Riddell
[16:00] <nosrednaekim> Thanks Riddell...sorry, can't stick around for the next session
[16:00] <nosrednaekim> good luck txwikinger
[16:00] <nareshov> cheguevara: is it the kde4 from the ppa repo for gutsy?
[16:00] <darx> Has the tut started?
[16:01] <txwikinger> ok.. let just slide into the next tutorial -- bug triage
[16:01] <sigma> first session is over
[16:01] <stdin> This session: kubuntu bug triage with txwikinger
[16:01] <darx> ok
[16:01] <cheguevara> nareshov, either that or from hardy, they look exactly the same :P
[16:01] <Riddell> over to txwikinger
[16:01] <dholbach> Riddell: well done!
[16:01] <cheguevara> yeah thanks Riddell
[16:01] <txwikinger> Ok... let's just start ... please feel free to ask questions at any time
[16:02] <txwikinger> And stop me if I get to be too fast
[16:02] <PJC121> okies
[16:02] <nareshov> sure :}
[16:02] <fadey> ok
[16:02] <txwikinger> The first question is: what is bug triage
[16:02] <cheguevara> Riddell: may wanna change the topic
[16:02] <txwikinger> The word triage comes from the French word trier which means sorting, sifting (see http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=triage)
[16:02] <elisiano_> exactly, I was ashamed to ask
[16:02] <txwikinger> Commonly it is used in the field of medicine, especially in the context of emergency rooms,
[16:03] <nareshov> ah
[16:03] <limac> Riddell: Can you send me a ling to your blog? i mssed it completely! thnx :D
[16:03] <txwikinger> situations, basically when limited resources must be allocated to a high number of patients.
[16:03] <darx> yes i know about that
[16:03] <darx> also triage of symptoms
[16:03] <Riddell> limac: find it on planet.ubuntu.com or planet.kde.org
[16:03] <nareshov> limac: it's on planet.ubuntu.com
[16:03] <txwikinger> there was a disaster missing -- disaster situations
[16:03] <txwikinger> yes darx
[16:03] <txwikinger> This in an analogy that also describes what we do with bug-reports.
[16:04] <nareshov> oh
[16:04] <_nix_> anyone know where I can grab the irc logs from here?
[16:04] <limac> Riddlell and nareshove: thx dudes
[16:04] <txwikinger> When they are submitted, they must be checked if the adhere to a certain standard,
[16:04] <txwikinger> contain all the necessary information that they can be fixed
[16:04] <Sanne> _nix_: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[16:04] <nareshov> _nix_: press Ctrl+O if you're using Konversation :D
[16:04] <txwikinger> and be sorted and classified in order to get the right "resource" to work on it.
[16:04] <_nix_> Sanne, nareshov: thanks..
[16:05] <txwikinger> In some way someone who triages bugs is something like a facilitator or arbitrator.
[16:05] <txwikinger> You work with the reporter in order to retrieve as much information as possible.
[16:05] <john> nareshov: I missed what Ctrl-O is for
[16:05] <txwikinger> You also work with the developers for kubuntu and ubuntu
[16:06] <PJC121> txwikinger: where do we find the reporter? silly question I know...
[16:06] <txwikinger> as well as upstream distributions like KDE and debian and others
[16:06] <blueyed> PJC121: in the bug report.. its the one who reported it :)
[16:06] <raphink> hi guys
[16:06] <txwikinger> PJC you can find them in the bug report
[16:06] <kwilliam|away> txwikinger: so we're talking Kubuntu and general KDE bugs?
[16:06] <daskreech> txwikinger: reported bugs in general
[16:06] <txwikinger> kwilliam|away: Well both
[16:07] <txwikinger> Any report that might be reported against Kubuntu
[16:07] <PJC121> i see, I thought you meant a reporter as in something that saves error messages / codes on our system, oops :)
[16:07] <txwikinger> this includes often problems that are really KDE problems
[16:07] <txwikinger> yes PJC121
[16:08] <limac> where in planet.kde.org?
[16:08] <txwikinger> So the bug triage process helps to provide the information or finding out what information is needed.
[16:08] <Riddell> limac: -> #kubuntu
[16:08] <txwikinger> Due to the fact that all of this concerns people it is very important that bug triage is done with a lot of patience and humility.
[16:08] <txwikinger> There are sometimes different interests that need to be mitigated when decisions are made,
[16:09] <txwikinger> and it is always the best to be as polite as possible to everybody around
[16:09] <txwikinger> (see also Ubuntu CoC https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1)
[16:09] <txwikinger> Basically two sets of skills are needed
[16:09] <txwikinger> Skills to deal with people
[16:10] <txwikinger> and some technical skills that help to deal with the reports themselves
[16:10] <elisiano_> txwikinger: all in one person? :)
[16:10] <PJC121> lol
[16:10] <txwikinger> well hopefully :D
[16:10] <elisiano_> or there are some PRs and some tech guys?
[16:11] <txwikinger> elisiano_:
[16:11] <kwilliam> elisiano: I think you need people-minded geeks
[16:11] <txwikinger> I think people have strength and weaknesses, but they can work on both those skill sets :)
[16:11] <txwikinger> The bug triage happens on launchpad https://bugs.launchpad.net/
[16:11] <txwikinger> In order to be able to triage bugs effectively, you must have an account on launchpad.
[16:12] <PJC121> bookmarked
[16:12] <DFJA> How best do you go about figuring out if a bug a kubuntu-specific, or upstream?
[16:12] <txwikinger> ok... lets go directly to the triage process
[16:12] <txwikinger> There are different elements to triaging bugs
[16:12] <txwikinger> one of them is the cleaning up of the reports
[16:13] <txwikinger> Bugs are often submitted by reporters that do not understand fully the process.
[16:13] <txwikinger> On the other hand, the people working with the bugs need efficient access to the information.
[16:13] <txwikinger> Therefore it can be very important to clean up the bugs summary to soemthing that is meaningful
[16:13] <txwikinger> that in a list of reports someone already understand the main issue of every report in the list.
[16:14] <txwikinger> It can also be helpful if certain important information is added to the description of the report,
[16:14] <txwikinger> since this is the first thing after the summary one would read.
[16:14] <txwikinger> Part of this is collecting more information about a problem
[16:15] <txwikinger> The goal is to have enough information to reproduce the problem
[16:15] <txwikinger> This is in my opinion the most important step of bug triage.
[16:15] <kwilliam> what if its hardware related?
[16:15] <kwilliam> e.g. specific video cards
[16:15] <PJC121> do you have an example problem txwikinger?
[16:15] <txwikinger> That makes it sometimes tricky kwilliam
[16:15] <txwikinger> yes.. I have one in a minute
[16:15] <PJC121> ok :)
[16:16] <txwikinger> kwilliam.. hopefully others have the same hardware
[16:16] <kwilliam> txwikinger: ok
[16:16] <txwikinger> or it has to be described very well and tested by the reporter when the fix is there
[16:16] <daskreec1> Or different hardware as the cse might be :)
[16:16] <txwikinger> In an ideal world, a bug report has a description that allows anybody following it to immediately reproduce the bug.
[16:16] <txwikinger> That is not always possible, but a good target.
[16:17] <txwikinger> It is good practice to see if the description given is sufficient to reproduce or see the problem and if necessary add additional information if the problem is found.
[16:17] <txwikinger> (Example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/102979)
[16:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 102979 in ubiquity "[kde-ui] next button does not respond to keyboard" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[16:17] <txwikinger> this is a good example
[16:17] <txwikinger> The report was submitted and is already very good and accurate
[16:18] <txwikinger> However, when I tested it, I found a workaround and therefore valuable information for the developer to fix it
[16:18] <txwikinger> If you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/102979/comments/2,
[16:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 102979 in ubiquity "[kde-ui] next button does not respond to keyboard" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[16:18] <txwikinger>  I had gone through the steps in the description and found actually a workaround for the problem.
[16:18] <txwikinger> I have added this information and confirmed that there is really a problem, that anybody can reproduce.
[16:18] <txwikinger> Often this steps includes to ask the right questions to the submitter that allows them to give more accurate information that is needed.
[16:19] <dthacker> txwikinger: you could use one I did this morning and tell me what else I should have done? 175684
[16:19] <txwikinger> bug 175684
[16:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175684 in dolphin "dolphin does not keep selected file on dir list update" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175684
[16:20] <txwikinger> well, I would test it if I can 1) reproduce it
[16:20] <dthacker> I confirmed with a test
[16:20] <kwilliam> dthacker: I can try running kde4daily
[16:20] <txwikinger> secondly, I would go a little bit out of the scope to see what similar things do
[16:20] <cheguevara> i am sure that bug is true actually
[16:20] <cheguevara> lets see in kde 4
[16:21] <txwikinger> what happens when you push a different button, icon etc...
[16:21] <txwikinger> Get a little broader picture
[16:21] <cheguevara> yep same in kde 4
[16:21] <dthacker> so perhaps, what happens if a selected file is deleted, updated etc
[16:21] <txwikinger> If it gives good information for the developer
[16:21] <txwikinger> yes that are good ideas
[16:21] <txwikinger> Often it is just "playing" a little around with it
[16:22] <txwikinger> ok lets move on
[16:22] <txwikinger> Now we want to sort the bugs
[16:22] <wolfger> now dolphin has two packages, right? "dolphin" and "d3lphin"?
[16:22] <txwikinger> Often there is no package assigned or the wrong package
[16:22] <txwikinger> we want to correct that as soon as we know which package is the right one
[16:23] <txwikinger> This allows the right people to look at the bugs. Here are good instructions on how to find the right package to assigne a bug to:
[16:23] <txwikinger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
[16:23] <txwikinger> Furthermore we want to assign the right state to the report
[16:23] <txwikinger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/CommonTasks#head-6e435bd3f0413458778d4688ea2f4983e90e6ab4 gives an overwiew of the different states a report can have. For the triage, the essential states are New, Incomplete, Confirmed and Invalid.
[16:24] <thefoxx> hello
[16:24] <txwikinger> Every report start with the state New. When somebody starts to triage it and more information is necessary it will be set in the state incomplete until all the information is in the report.
[16:24] <kwilliam> dthacker: i can't reproduce it. chat after this panel over?
[16:24] <txwikinger> When all the information is in the report and the bug can be reproduced it will be set to the state Confirmed.
[16:24] <txwikinger> A lot of reports will turn out either not to be bugs, or it is impossible to collect the necessary information that the report has a positive effect, i.e really helps to solve a problem.
[16:24] <txwikinger> Sometimes reporters will not respond for request for the information needed, and it is not feasible or possible to recreate it yourself. In these cases the state will be changed to invalid.
[16:25] <txwikinger> With all those state changes always keep in mind the consequences. We do not want to unnecessarily mark reports invalid because of laziness.
[16:25] <wolfger> what if the reporter provides the information, but you still can't recreate?
[16:25] <txwikinger> A report might contain crucial information to solve a problem, sometimes not understood to the person that triages it.
[16:25] <txwikinger> well.. hopefully someone can
[16:26] <txwikinger> Otherwise it is very possible that it is an issue rather related to the particular user/install/configuration that a general bug
[16:26] <txwikinger> Therefore, we do not close report lightly in this way. We always want to make sure the report has all the necessary information to be set for the next state.
[16:26] <txwikinger> One issue are always duplicates
[16:27] <txwikinger> While reporters are encouraged to first look for similar or identical problems in the bug tracker, it is inevidable that we get a lot of duplicate reports. Therefore a very important step during the information collection is to see if there is already another report. If this is the case, the report is linked to the original report (more here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/CommonTasks#head-170e00a7154fcfc87f0fc50f65bba9cff7ab27fe)
[16:27] <txwikinger> If the problem is a general problem i.e KDE we also want to report it upstream
[16:27] <txwikinger>  We are working very close with the upstream distros and it is a mutual benefit for everybody to get bug fixes introduced as high upstream as possible. For Kubuntu KDE is in particular of interest. Here is an example of this https://bugs.launchpad.net/kdebase/+bug/96151
[16:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 96151 in kdebase "kcmclock does not change to correct location" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[16:28] <txwikinger> In such cases you either find an already existing report in the upstream bugtracker and add it to the report, or you create a new report in the upstream bug tracker and add that one. Here are the instructions how to do this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage#head-ab0eb9d7731fa877b5fc866eedc4c312dab50ee7
[16:28] <txwikinger> Basically you choose the upstream project (KDE in this case) an add the url to the particular bug in their tracker. LP will then update periodically the state of the report in the upstream tracker.
[16:28] <txwikinger> One very good help in the tasks of bug triage are standard answers
[16:29] <txwikinger> Here are lots of such responses for various situations: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses
[16:29] <txwikinger> In particular I would like to raise the attention for this one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#head-6ee6466fdaac8c81274185f0316afd794d2ee0b6 This can be used when the reporter does not responds (usually within a month) to the requests for more information and the existing information does not help to reproduce the problem.
[16:29] <txwikinger> Ok.. the time is already up
[16:30] <xRaich[o]2x> thanks for the tutorial
[16:30] <txwikinger> Always remember that we are working here in a team. Therefore, we help each other. It is always good to ask questions if you are not sure how to proceed. Even for the most seasoned people it can be in tricky cases very helpful to have a second opinion. So if your are not sure about something ask somebody. I am often around on the IRC channels as txwikinger or txwikinger2 (when I am at work). Feel free to see me if I can help you.
[16:30] <PJC121> thank you for your time txwikinger, helped me get started on how to start bug reporting, gj, ty
[16:30] <kwilliam> so if we have launchpad accounts...
[16:30] <john> thanks txwikinger
[16:30] <dthacker> kwilliam: yes, ping me in #kubuntu-offtopic
[16:30] <Riddell> there's lots of Kubuntu bug reports, many of them don't get an answer
[16:30] <txwikinger> The channel for the bug is #ubuntu-bugs
[16:30] <Riddell> so help is always needed with bug triage
[16:31] <txwikinger> ok Riddell you want to take over again?
[16:31] <xRaich[o]2x> now comes the fun part ^^
[16:31] <dthacker> Is there a way to create a URL that will pull all open bugs that have to do with Kubuntu?
[16:31] <Riddell> could do, anyone want to learn about bzr?
[16:31] <thefoxx> yes me
[16:31] <dthacker> me
[16:31] <xRaich[o]2x> sure thing :)
[16:31] <wolfger> yes please
[16:31] <PJC121> go go go :)
[16:31] <thefoxx> I'm using svn right now and want to learn something about bzr ;)
[16:31] <cheguevara> thanks txwikinger
[16:32] <wolfger> i've used bzr and I want to learn about svn
[16:32] <egonw> was using git-svn, but doing the same with bzr sounds interesting
[16:32] <mzungu> please
[16:32] <Riddell> apt-get install bzr
[16:32] <Fu86> I like SVN but i am open for new stuff :)
[16:32] <kwilliam> is bzr for advanced developers? i've never used svn
[16:32] <Riddell> is always a good start
[16:32] <Riddell> bzr is for everyone
[16:32] <iRon> Riddell: bzr is more like svn or mercurial (git) ?
[16:33] <Riddell> bzr, or more properly Bazaar is the world best revision control system
[16:33] <thefoxx> is there a way to sync between svn and bzr? when I develop something with eclipse I want to use it's nice svn integration
[16:33] <Riddell> hang on, questions in a bit
[16:33] <cheguevara> bzr-svn
[16:33] <Riddell> it keeps track of your files
[16:33] <Riddell> so if you make a mistake you can go back a look at what happened
[16:34] <Riddell> unlike svn or cvs, it's very easy to branch
[16:34] <DreadKnight> is there a native QT bzr browser?
[16:34] <Riddell> so if you don't have access to the svn archive
[16:34] <Riddell> or if you're doing something at all experimental
[16:34] <Riddell> you can just branch
[16:34] <Riddell> do your work in the branch
[16:34] <Riddell> and merge back later
[16:34] <Riddell> bzr has the best merging out of any revision control system
[16:34] <Riddell> they're very proud of how well it works
[16:34] <Riddell> but there's more!
[16:34] <limac> so when r we beginning?
[16:34] <cheguevara> DreadKnight, may be we should all write one with your brand new pyqt knowledge :P
[16:35] <thefoxx> is there any gui?
[16:35] <Riddell> other revision control systems need their own servers set up
[16:35] <cheguevara> bzr-gtk
[16:35] <Riddell> but bzr is super easy to get started
[16:35] <thefoxx> for the first steps I think it would be easyer
[16:35] <thefoxx> thx
[16:35] <DreadKnight> cheguevara: i'm not actually a programer :) but it sounds good
[16:35] <Riddell> to get started just make a new directory
[16:35] <Riddell> mkdir files
[16:35] <Riddell> cd file
[16:35] <Riddell> cd files  rather
[16:35] <DreadKnight> don't like to use the gtk one (olive i think it's called)
[16:35] <limac> any specific name?
[16:35] <Riddell> and  bzr init
[16:35] <Riddell> then save a file in that directory
[16:36] <Riddell> echo hello > myfile
[16:36] <Riddell> add it to the repo
[16:36] <Riddell> bzr add myfile
[16:36] <Riddell> and finally commit it
[16:36] <Riddell> bzr commit
[16:36] <Riddell> it'll ask you for a commit message, so you just say "inital commit"
[16:37] <Riddell> now bzr works easily off your local hard disk
[16:37] <cheguevara> Committed revision 1.
[16:37] <Riddell> excellent, gold star to cheguevara
[16:37] <cheguevara> :P
[16:37] <Riddell> but it can also work off any network system, like a web server
[16:37] <thefoxx> works here too, it's easy but right now same as svn ;)
[16:37] <DreadKnight> Riddell: want to menthor me to make a pykde bzr GUI ? xD
[16:37] <Riddell> so you can just copy that directory to a web server
[16:38] <Riddell> and now anyone can get hold of your revision control
[16:38] <Riddell> we use bzr for the kubuntu.org website
[16:38] <Riddell> I edit the files directly on the server
[16:38] <thefoxx> hm sorry no not really for svn you need an extern directory for svn repository...
[16:38] <thefoxx> nice
[16:38] <Riddell> and bzr commit after any changes I made
[16:38] <egonw> Riddell: doesn't that require some apache settings changed?
[16:38] <Riddell> now if this was svn, only I can do anything with it
[16:38] <Riddell> egonw: nope
[16:38] <Riddell> it works off any web server
[16:38] <Riddell> no changes needed
[16:38] <egonw> mmm, sounds good :)
[16:39] <Riddell> or smb, or local hard disk, or ftp, whatever
[16:39] <Riddell> sftp too
[16:39] <elisiano_> I don't get it
[16:39] <elisiano_> how?
[16:39] <cheguevara> magic
[16:39] <Riddell> there's a hidden .bzr directory with all the meta data
[16:39] <Riddell> that's what gets made with bzr init
[16:39] <Riddell> unlike subversion, it's only one .bzr directory per archive
[16:39] <Riddell> not one per directory
[16:40] <Riddell> so anyone can do bzr branch http://kubuntu.org
[16:40] <Fu86> do I need a physical copy of the directory to work on or is there a "checkout"-feature?
[16:40] <Riddell> that'll probably take a few minutes to run
[16:40] <Riddell> but then anyone can make changes to the files
[16:40] <Riddell> you can then do  bzr diff  and send me the patch
[16:41] <Riddell> or you can put it on a web server yourself and I can do  bzr merge http://your.web.server.com/~me/
[16:41] <wolfger> Format <RepositoryFormat6> for http://kubuntu.org/.bzr/ is deprecated - please use 'bzr upgrade' to get better performance
[16:41] <Riddell> hah, that server has an old bzr version on it
[16:41] <thefoxx> Riddell, it's nice that you can do branch kubuntu.org but if I dont want that, if I want to use a "private" archive - can I do commit and update like with svn but don't init a own repository? dont know wether you understand waht I mean...
[16:41] <Riddell> bzr is a fast moving project, but it has always remained backwards compatible
[16:42] <Riddell> thefoxx: yes you can
[16:42] <Riddell> branches do take time, you don't always need to do it
[16:42] <Riddell> so you can also just checkout
[16:42] <elisiano_> omg, I'm downloading the kubuntu.org branch
[16:42] <Riddell> which is what svn users are used to
[16:42] <thefoxx> sounds nice...
[16:42] <thefoxx> and thats about acl?
[16:42] <thefoxx> *whats
[16:42] <Riddell> for example
[16:42] <Riddell> we host some of our packaging in bzr
[16:43] <Riddell> on launchpad
[16:43] <Riddell> here's the webpage for our amarok packaging
[16:43] <Riddell> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/amarok/debian
[16:43] <Riddell> sorry https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/amarok/debian to non-beta testers
[16:43] <Riddell> that'll tell you that you can do  bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/amarok/debian
[16:43] <Riddell> but for those of us lucky enough to be in kubuntu-members
[16:44] <Riddell> we can do   bzr checkout
[16:44] <Riddell> and commit back directly
[16:44] <Riddell> there's no access control list, access is just governed by the permissions of the server its on
[16:44] <Riddell> or local file system
[16:44] <Riddell> now, I need a volunteer!
[16:44] <thefoxx> can I use apache htaccess to protect it?
[16:45] <nareshov> me
[16:45] <nareshov> volunteers
[16:45] <Riddell> nareshov: please register a project for us on launchpad  https://code.launchpad.net/projects/+new
[16:45] <Riddell> call it kubuntu-tutorial say
[16:45] <Riddell> thefoxx: http is read only, so nobody can commit to it
[16:45] <nareshov> okay
[16:46] <Fu86> do it, do it! :D
[16:46] <Riddell> thefoxx: you can use sftp (ssh) for read/write archives, and then access it just who can write to the files
[16:46] <thefoxx> hm yes... logical
[16:46] <Riddell> now we're all going to upload branches to launchpad
[16:46] <thefoxx> okay I think I understand - sounds nic
[16:46] <thefoxx> e
[16:46] <Riddell> launchpad is a great place to host your bzr branches
[16:47] <nareshov> done
[16:47] <Riddell> but as I say, you can host it on any server
[16:47] <nareshov> https://code.launchpad.net/kubuntu-tutorial
[16:47] <thefoxx> but in my opinion it makes acl a bit more difficult but easyer to understand
[16:47] <Riddell> unlike Source Forge you don't need to ask to create a project
[16:47] <Riddell> anyone can make a project at any time and you can host any free software code there
[16:47] <Riddell> thanks nareshov
[16:48] <Riddell> if you have your bzr archives you can now push your code to launchpad
[16:48] <k_william> Riddell: that's awesome
[16:48] <ropiku> Riddell, ssh is the only way to rw ? That means that every commiter must have a ssh account ?
[16:48] <elisiano_> so in nareshov projects how do we retrieve the branch?
[16:48] <elisiano_> project*
[16:49] <Riddell> bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~<lp-name>/<projectname>/<branch-name>
[16:49] <Riddell> you'll need an account on launchpad
[16:49] <Riddell> and you'll need your ssh key registered on launchpad
[16:49] <nareshov> hmm
[16:50] <DreadKnight> nice
[16:50] <Riddell> if you don't have an ssh key make one with ssh-keygen
[16:50] <Riddell> and follow the prompts
[16:50] <Riddell> then paste the ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub in launchpad
[16:51] <Riddell> https://launchpad.net/~<lp-name>/+editsshkeys
[16:51] <wolfger> error on the push
[16:51] <wolfger> Unable to import paramiko (required for sftp support): No module named paramiko
[16:51] <Riddell> then bzr push sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~<lp-name>/kubuntu-tutorial/mybranch
[16:51] <Riddell> sudo apt-get install python-paramiko
[16:51] <Riddell> wolfger: ^^
[16:51] <ropiku> so I do a init, commit something then push ?
[16:51] <Riddell> paramiko is needed for sftp access
[16:51] <Riddell> ropiku: yes
[16:52] <mzungu> Riddell, what would be the best way for a small group, geographically separated, to work with bzr privately - each on his own branch - how then to sync?
[16:53] <Riddell> mzungu: you can also register teams on launchpad
[16:53] <Riddell> then add the people to that team and push to a team branch
[16:53] <Riddell> just push to ~myteam
[16:53] <Riddell> which is what we do with the kubuntu packaging I showed earlier
[16:53] <wolfger> how to verify RSA key fingerprint of bazaar.launchpad.net?
[16:53] <Riddell> wolfger: just accept it
[16:53] <Riddell> worry if it changes
[16:53] <mzungu> ok - but for private code?
[16:54] <Riddell> so then anyone in the team can checkout and commit back (or branch as anyone outside the team can do)
[16:54] <limac> Riddell: what's sftp?
[16:54] <nareshov> ssh+ftp :P
[16:54] <DreadKnight> secure ftp?
[16:54] <Riddell> mzungu: on non public code you can just do it on a local machine you have ssh access to
[16:54] <Riddell> mzungu: and store it in a group writable directory
[16:54] <RinTinTigger> packing 101 on now?
[16:54] <wolfger> Permission denied (publickey).
[16:54] <mzungu> ok - thanks
[16:54] <Riddell> RinTinTigger: 5 minutes
[16:54] <Riddell> wolfger: have you uploaded your ssh key to launchpad
[16:55] <nareshov> wolfger: did you import your key?
[16:55] <limac> but whut's ftp?
[16:55] <DreadKnight> file transfer protocol
[16:55] <limac> ah!
[16:55] <wolfger> I have 1 OpenPGP key and one SSH key on Launchpad
[16:55] <Riddell> if we now look at https://code.launchpad.net/kubuntu-tutorial/
[16:55] <limac> so whut's exactly the purpose of bzr?
[16:55] <Riddell> we can see there's a branch there
[16:56] <wolfger> maybe my SSH key is from my (non-existant) Feisty install?
[16:56] <thefoxx> which python module provides question_dialog ?
[16:56] <DreadKnight> limac: versioning system, used for software development
[16:56] <dholbach> wolfger: best to double check
[16:56] <ropiku> weird, Launchpad user doesn't have a registered SSH key
[16:56] <Riddell> gold star to nareshov
[16:56] <thefoxx> it should be dialog as I see but it's not included in python dialog package...
[16:56] <nareshov> yay :D
[16:56] <thefoxx> yes, dialog, but not question_dialog
[16:56] <limac> DreadKnight: thx dude and wat about svn?
[16:56] <Riddell> so now we can all branch nareshov's code and edit it
[16:56] <Riddell> then he can merge back our changes if he likes them
[16:57] <Riddell> (actually it'll take a minute for launchpad to sync the branch)
[16:57] <Riddell> ok, I did promise branching from svn
[16:57] <ropiku> I imported my key (SSH public key added.) and pushed into sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ropiku/kubuntu-tutorial/ropiku-branch
[16:57] <DreadKnight> limac: bzr is somewhat better ;)
[16:57] <Riddell> there's two ways to do that
[16:57] <Riddell> you can do it in launchpad
[16:57] <limac> but wat is svn?
[16:58] <Riddell> svn is subversion
[16:58] <Riddell> it's an older alternative to bzr
[16:58] <limac> ok! :)
[16:58] <Riddell> used by KDE, Gnome and many others
[16:58] <Riddell> we have an import of amarok in launchpad at https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/amarok/trunk
[16:58] <Riddell> so if you don't have a KDE subversion account you can just branch that and edit the code
[16:58] <Riddell> then send back your patches
[16:58] <thefoxx> did anyone uses bzr-svn ?
[16:58] <nareshov> ah
[16:58] <Riddell> the second way to branch svn is with bzr-svn
[16:58] <limac> and is there going to be any packaging tutorials today?
[16:58] <Riddell> apt-get install bzr-svn
[16:59] <Riddell> and branch it locally on your own system
[16:59] <RinTinTigger> 2 mins
[16:59] <ropiku> can someone help me a bit, please :D
[16:59] <dholbach> limac: read the topic and check out the link
[16:59] <Riddell> this has the nifty way of being able to commit changes back directly
[16:59] <Riddell> so now we can branch the debian packaging for some KDE related libraries for example
[16:59] <Riddell> bzr branch svn://svn.debian.org/pkg-kde/krap
[16:59] <thefoxx> does bzr svn allows to permanently sinc svn and bzr?
[17:00] <Riddell> unfortunately there's a memory leak in bzr-svn
[17:00] <Riddell> so importing from KDE using it will kill your system unless you stop it and restart after every 1000 commits it scans
[17:00] <nareshov> ooh
[17:00] <Riddell> but hopefully that will be fixed soon and people without KDE svn account, or people doing experimental work can branch KDE apps and edit
[17:00] <RinTinTigger> is GNOME better then KDE
[17:00] <RinTinTigger> ?
[17:01] <Riddell> RinTinTigger: no flames please
[17:01] <RinTinTigger> sry
[17:01] <Riddell> ok, we're out of time
[17:01] <elisiano_> RinTinTigger: are you trying to flame? :D
[17:01] <Riddell> jpatrick: are you here?
[17:01] <jpatrick> Riddell: yep
[17:01] <dholbach> rock and roll - thank Riddell for another great session
[17:01] <RinTinTigger> elisiano:no
[17:01] <Riddell> please ask me questions in #kubuntu about the bzr tutorial
[17:01] <xRaich[o]2x> Riddell: thanks for the tutorial :)
[17:01] <Riddell> or ask on #bzr
[17:01] <jpatrick> Evening everyone, by the end of this hour we should have some .deb files laying around. :)
[17:01] <dholbach> s/thanks/thank
[17:01] <limac> Riddell: thx dude u helped us a lot! :D
[17:01] <RinTinTigger> :D
[17:01] <dholbach> rock on jpatrick
[17:01] <Riddell> and watch out for Bazaar 1.0 coming very soon
[17:01] <nareshov> thanks a lot Riddell
[17:01] <RinTinTigger> thanks Riddel
[17:01] <RinTinTigger> L
[17:02] <thefoxx> thanks
[17:02] <jpatrick> For this you'll need to have the "pbuilder devscripts debootstrap fakeroot lintian" packages installed.
[17:02] <gourgi> thanks :D
[17:02] <mzungu> many thanks, Riddell
[17:02] <limac> hello, jpatrick!
[17:02] <limac> thanks a lot Riddell!
[17:02] <jpatrick> I've prepared a debian/ dir template for you all: "wget http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/debian-tmp.tar.gz" - this contains the base of all the necessary files for making a Debian package.
[17:02] <jpatrick> I've spent some time looking for something to package and I eventually found kraft, which we'll package!
[17:02] <cheguevara> thanks Riddell
[17:02] <jpatrick> And while we look at each file in the tar.gz I'll explain bit by bit how to make the package.
[17:03] <Fu86> 404 :(
[17:03] <cheguevara> can we have a prize for the best package :P
[17:03] <abhidg> 404 here too :(
[17:03] <thefoxx> 404
[17:03] <cheguevara> yeah jpatrick 404
[17:03] <gourgi> 404
[17:03] <RinTinTigger> tried to copy the  link instead of clicking ^^
[17:03] <jpatrick> looks like ubuntuwire is dead.
[17:03] <gourgi> lol
[17:03] <cheguevara> lol
[17:03] <jpatrick> "wget http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/debian-tem.tar.gz"
[17:03] <nareshov> lol
[17:03] <RinTinTigger> :D
[17:03] <cheguevara> perfect timing
[17:04] <cheguevara> ye that works
[17:04] <jpatrick> make sure to put everything into a new dir
[17:04] <RinTinTigger> yea
[17:04] <jpatrick> Let's get the kraft sources: wget http://downloads.sourceforge.net/kraft/kraft-0.20.tar.bz2
[17:04] <stdin> jpatrick: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/debian-tem.tar.gz :)
[17:04] <stdin> jpatrick: screwy file names
[17:04] <jpatrick> Now first of all that source is in .tar.bz2 format, in Ubuntu and Debian only source packages of .tar.gz format are accepted. So we have to first unbunzip it and tar it.
[17:05] <jpatrick> Debian source packages have the format: package_x.yy.orig.tar.gz so let's rename our new .tar.gz to that: kraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz.
[17:05] <jpatrick> We now leave our new tar.gz to one side and make a new directory in our source: debian/. This is where we will make our only changes to the source.
[17:05] <jpatrick> Basically we can copy and paste the files from the template tar into to debian/. And make the necessary changes to the files, let's do this one by one.
[17:05] <DreadKnight> jpatrick: untar first?
[17:06] <jpatrick> DreadKnight: yep
[17:06] <DreadKnight> :)
[17:06] <jpatrick> First debian/changelog: this is where changes to the Debian packaging are noted. Everything should be noted (we have debdiffs to prove otherwise).
[17:06] <jpatrick> everyone ok?
[17:06] <dthacker> kik
[17:06] <jpatrick> The first line should have a format of: packageName (x.yy-0ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low - -0.. because it does not exist in Debian (who version their new packages -1).
[17:06] <abhidg> is there any proper format for a changelog?
[17:07] <Fu86> slow down please :)
[17:07] <DreadKnight> changelog is a folder?
[17:07] <limac> yeah!
[17:07] <wolfger> I'm stuck on unbzipping
[17:07] <limac> :D
[17:07] <jpatrick> abhidg: it's all in the templete dir
[17:07] <ericthefish> too fast
[17:07]  * jpatrick waits a while
[17:07] <DreadKnight> wolfger: kde 3.5: right click on tar, actions, extract here
[17:08] <cheguevara> tar xjvf kraft-0.20.tar.bz2
[17:08] <jpatrick> DreadKnight: change log is a simply a text file
[17:08] <DreadKnight> i see
[17:08] <cheguevara> then tar czvf kraft-0.20.tar.gz kraft-0.20/
[17:08] <stdin> "bunzip2 kraft-0.20.tar.bz2 ; gzip kraft-0.20.tar; mv kraft-0.20.tar.gz kraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz"
[17:08] <jpatrick> ^that :)
[17:08] <nareshov> and tar -cvzf kraft-0.20.orig.tar.gz kraft-0.20/
[17:08] <limac> how do u unbunzip?
[17:08] <nareshov> hehe
[17:08] <cheguevara> limac, tar xjvf kraft-0.20.tar.bz2
[17:08] <abhidg> tar jxvf <filename>
[17:08] <DreadKnight> limac: kde 3.5: right click on tar, actions, extract here
[17:08] <thefoxx> tar xvfj kraft...
[17:09] <limac> thx
[17:09] <cheguevara> command line > ark
[17:09] <dthacker> so at the cli i should copy changelog from debian-tem to debian?
[17:09] <cheguevara> :P
[17:09] <jpatrick> dthacker: yes and all the other files
[17:09] <nareshov> mv debian-tem kraft-0.20/
[17:09] <jpatrick> and rename debian-tem to debian
[17:09] <Fu86> mv debian-tem debian
[17:09] <matthias_> why hardy?
[17:09] <stdin> or "mv debian-tem kraft-0.20/debian" after extracting
[17:09] <nareshov> ok
[17:09] <stuffcorpse> l
[17:10] <abhidg> hardy is the next ubuntu release, that's why
[17:10] <cheguevara> matthias_, 'cause hardy is the latest ubuntu dev version?
[17:10] <dthacker> ok, now which one are we editing first?
[17:10] <jpatrick> the changelog
[17:10] <matthias_> is that important to install the package?
[17:10] <DreadKnight> there is already a changelog file there :)
[17:10] <dholbach> (just as a sidenote: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Examples/ChangingTheOrigTarball has an example for how to do the bzip2/gzip thing in an auomated way)
[17:10] <jpatrick> matthias_: it's my example
[17:10] <limac> we also have to untar the debian-tem one right?
[17:11] <Fu86> limac: yes
[17:11] <stdin> limac: yes, then do ""mv debian-tem kraft-0.20/debian""
[17:11] <DreadKnight> jpatrick: you need a lot of pacience around here :)
[17:11] <stdin> with out the quotes
[17:11] <nareshov> yes, we're in the changelog now!
[17:11] <nareshov> (I am)
[17:11] <DreadKnight> me 2
[17:11] <lnxkde> sup!
[17:12] <Fu86> vim changelog
[17:12] <luke_> me too
[17:12] <lnxkde> hey guys when is the tutorial for qt phyton programing?
[17:12] <cheguevara> nano > vim
[17:12] <cheguevara> lnxkde, its past
[17:12] <stdin> lnxkde: been and gone
[17:12] <lnxkde> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[17:12] <wolfger> I'm lost. Where the heck is debian-tem?
[17:12] <lnxkde> darn University
[17:12] <stdin> wolfger: tar xzf debian-tem.tar.gz
[17:12] <DreadKnight> lnxkde: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[17:13] <gourgi> thanks for the url :D
[17:13] <lnxkde> DreadKnight: THANKX man
[17:13] <stdin> is everyone looking at the kraft-0.20/debian/changelog now ?
[17:13] <dthacker> yes
[17:13] <nareshov> yes
[17:13] <matthias_> so we want to have " kraft (0.20-0ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low "  in the first line of changelog, right?
[17:13] <thefoxx> yes
[17:13] <luke_> yes
[17:13] <Fu86> yes
[17:13] <gourgi> y
[17:13] <thefoxx> and edied...
[17:14] <stdin> ok, jpatrick can continue :)
[17:14] <limac> they are saying: "sudo: kraft-0.20/debian/changelog: command not found"
[17:14] <lnxkde> nice
[17:14] <nareshov> nano
[17:15] <stdin> limac: where's the sudo from, just edit the file with a text editor
[17:15] <nareshov> or kate, use an editor
[17:15] <lnxkde> downloaded the html and the txt
[17:15] <matthias_> where's jpatrick? is it going on?
[17:15] <ricercia> i've only just untarred the files :-P
[17:15] <limac> from the terminal
[17:16] <Riddell> hmm, jpatrick may have fallen off the internet
[17:16] <luke_> :D
[17:16] <nareshov> hehe
[17:16] <dthacker> we lost him!
[17:16]  * apachelogger_ feels like Riddell is taking over :P
[17:16] <DreadKnight> we are doomed
[17:16] <gourgi> lol
[17:16] <Riddell> I wonder where we are
[17:16] <Riddell> wget http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/debian-tmp.tar.gz
[17:16] <Riddell> wget http://downloads.sourceforge.net/kraft/kraft-0.20.tar.bz2
[17:16] <DreadKnight> we are at the changelog part
[17:16] <egonw> Riddell: editing the changelog
[17:16] <apachelogger_> apparently we are looking at kraft now
[17:16] <aRyn> btw what's about the Desktop Team Development Meeting? it's missing :D
[17:17] <stdin> aRyn: that'd be in #ubuntu-meeting probably
[17:17] <ericthefish> Riddell: is it debian-tmp.tar.gz or debian-tem.tar.gz ?
[17:17] <dholbach> aRyn: please, this is a tutorial session
[17:17] <nareshov> tem
[17:17] <Riddell> -tem it seems
[17:17] <ericthefish> thanks
[17:17] <Riddell> packageName (x.yy-0ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low
[17:17] <cheguevara> should we edit control next
[17:17] <Riddell> in the changelog
[17:17] <Riddell> and add your name and e-mail
[17:17] <Fu86> done
[17:18] <Riddell> debian/compat: this file just contains a compatiblity level which tells the devscripts how to behave. Current number is '5'.
[17:18] <nareshov> done
[17:18] <limac> what are we supposed to do after "mving"?
[17:18] <egonw> Riddell: about changelog... with PPA in mind, should that be the email associated with my LP acount?
[17:18] <limac> after mv debian-tem kraft-0.20/debian?
[17:18] <gourgi> limac: vim changelog
[17:18] <Riddell> egonw: not too important, but you should probably have it in your gpg key
[17:18] <limac> what?
[17:18] <Riddell> that'll be covered in the next talk
[17:18] <egonw> Riddell: ok, makes more sense
[17:18] <limac> gourgi ^^
[17:19] <Riddell> debian/control: this file is where we state what our package depends on to build, run, recommendations, etc. Let's go over each field:
[17:19] <Riddell> it also says what package(s) we make and includes the description
[17:19] <aRyn> stdin: it isn't
[17:19] <Riddell> Source: this is the name of the source tarball; in this case: kraft.
[17:19] <gourgi> limac: open changelog with an editor
[17:19] <Riddell> Section: what part of the archives the package should be in; 'kde' would be the best place for this package.
[17:19] <limac> gourgi: ok hold on
[17:19] <Fu86> Riddell: with the extension tar.gz?
[17:19] <elisiano_> the hardest part for me: know exactly how to fill those fields
[17:20] <Riddell> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> - all packages in universe have this Maintainer field.
[17:20] <Riddell> Fu86: no
[17:20] <luke_> are we still waiting for jpatrick?
[17:20] <Riddell> Build-Depends: what the source needs to be built (successfully), cdbs is not needed if you don't plan to use that build system (get to that later).
[17:20] <DreadKnight> guys you don't need to follow this from the konsole.. just use the gui ... easier :P
[17:20] <Riddell> luke_: I've taken over for now
[17:20] <luke_> ok
[17:20] <limac> gourgi: where's changelog?
[17:20] <Riddell> For most KDE3 packages only kdelibs4-dev, and libqt3-mt-dev are need. Since we use a docbook file for the manpage; docbook2x should also be included.
[17:20] <gourgi> inside dedian dir
[17:21] <Riddell> (that's the build depends)
[17:21] <Riddell> For KDE4: kdelibs5-dev and libqt4-dev build depends
[17:21] <gourgi> limac : inside debian
[17:21] <Riddell> Standards-Version - the debian-policy version that this package complies with. Current is 3.7.3. One can always find the lastest version here: http://www.us.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ .
[17:21] <Riddell> Homepage: simply a link to the projects homepage.
[17:21] <ricercia> where do i put the dependencies?
[17:21] <Riddell> And that's it for the source package section. Now binary...
[17:21] <apachelogger_> ricercia: Build-Depends:
[17:21] <Riddell> ricercia: in the debian/control file after Build-Depends:
[17:22] <Riddell> the control file lists the binary package next
[17:22] <Riddell> Package - name of the package, for single packages it should be the same as Source.
[17:22] <Riddell> Architecture: any|all - wether multiple binary packages are arch-indepentent or if it can be 'all' be done as one. Stuff in Python, images, for example can be marked as all.
[17:22] <ricercia> cheers, is that comma seperated?
[17:22] <limac> gourgi: wheres debian ir?
[17:22] <Riddell> ricercia: yes
[17:22] <limac> dir?
[17:22] <Riddell> most programmes are any so they get built for all arches (i386, amd64 etc)
[17:23] <Riddell> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends} - the build process calls a script called dh_shlibs which calculates all the dependencies that the package needs to run and replaces them here.
[17:23] <apachelogger_> limac: download -> http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debian-tem.tar.gz
[17:23] <Riddell> Description: a short description of what the package contains and underneath that a longer description of the package.
[17:23] <Riddell> Any questions on control?
[17:23] <limac> did that
[17:23] <abhidg_> Are the dependencies created from the build-Depends: line
[17:23] <Fu86> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, kdelibs5-dev, libqt-4-dev
[17:23] <Fu86> right?
[17:23] <cheguevara> http://kraft.sourceforge.net is homepage btw
[17:23] <apachelogger_> abhidg_: build-depends only lists the packages which are needed to build the software
[17:24] <Riddell> Fu86, abhidg_ : no no
[17:24] <limac> apachelogger: did that
[17:24] <apachelogger_> :)
[17:24] <Riddell> Build-Depends: ... kdelibs5-dev, libqt-4-dev
[17:24] <Riddell> but the Depends for the binary is just  Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
[17:24] <Fu86> ah thanks
[17:24] <Riddell> that shlibs:Depends gets filled in magically
[17:24] <Riddell> debian/copyright: This file is very, very important. Otherwise chances are that the package won't get past the NEW queue. Every license and copyright holder must be listed. What I do is go around the source: `grep "Copyright" *` and filtering it all out later by directories.
[17:24] <Artemis_Fowl> Where can the logbe found?
[17:25] <Artemis_Fowl> log be*
[17:25] <unikuser> hey can anyone post completed d/control file?
[17:25] <cheguevara> kraft is qt3 or qt4?
[17:25] <Riddell> hmm, you don't actually have to list every copyright holder, just the major ones
[17:25] <apachelogger_> Artemis_Fowl: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[17:25] <Artemis_Fowl> thx
[17:25] <Riddell> cheguevara: kde 3
[17:26] <Riddell> so kdelibs4-dev, and libqt3-mt-dev are need for build-depends
[17:26] <allee> unikuser: every 'apt-get source <pkgs>'  gives you a complete d/control file ;)
[17:26] <cheguevara> yeah thats what i put, its just ppl started talking about kdelibs5 :P
[17:26] <abhidg_> kdelibs5 is for kde4 isnt it?
[17:27] <Riddell> abhidg_: yes
[17:27] <apachelogger_> complete control: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2690/
[17:27] <limac> wat do we do after opening changelog?
[17:27] <apachelogger_> limac: please read in the log
[17:27] <Riddell> apachelogger: do you have a changelog you can pastebin for limac
[17:28] <Mondaar> once again back to the control-file...where can I get a list of all available sections?
[17:28] <apachelogger> limac: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2692/ note: you have to change name and email ;-)
[17:28] <Riddell> Mondaar: the template file is pretty complete
[17:28] <xRaich[o]2x> Riddell: will there be a step by step version of this tutorial somewhere, this is a lot of information to swallow and it'S quite noisy in here
[17:28] <Fu86> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2693/
[17:29] <Riddell> xRaich[o]2x: yes, we'll give references at the end
[17:29] <limac> apachelogger_: change name for what
[17:29] <Riddell> so debian/copyright
[17:29] <Riddell> running `grep "copyright" *` from kraft/src is better and we see that Klaas Freitag has a copyright on the years 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and finally 2007.
[17:29] <Riddell> So in the copyright we have to change the line 9 to Copyright (C) 2003 - 2007 Klaas Freitag <freitag@kde.org>. And that should be all.
[17:29] <apachelogger> Mondaar: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
[17:30] <Riddell> debian/rules (don't you know?)
[17:30] <Riddell> We have two choices of rules files: cdbs or dh_* script style. The rules file is basically a Makefile that is executed by the build system. Personally I prefer CDBS. But choose whichever you want (rename it to rules) and rm the other.
[17:30] <Riddell> it's probably best to start with the dh one
[17:30] <Riddell> that shows you what's happening
[17:30] <Riddell> the cdbs one hides away most of what happens
[17:31] <nareshov> hm
[17:31] <ricercia> tel me that after i delete the file eh?
[17:31] <nareshov> hehe
[17:31] <Riddell> the cdbs one works as well of course
[17:31] <Riddell> most packages use cdbs these days
[17:31] <Riddell> they both work the same way, but cdbs just keeps most of it hidden
[17:32] <elisiano> Riddell: grep copyright *|cut -f2 -d')'|sort|uniq
[17:32] <elisiano> it's not just one
[17:32] <Riddell> if you look at the dh one it includes lots of dh_ scripts from debhelper
[17:32] <elisiano> anyway not the point
[17:32] <limac> wat do we do after viewing changelog?
[17:32] <Riddell> that rules file also runs ./configure  make and make install
[17:32] <Riddell> which is how most applications compile and install
[17:32] <nareshov> okay
[17:33] <Riddell> are there questions on the rules files?
[17:33] <Riddell> that's the most complex bit
[17:33] <Fu86> nope
[17:33] <unikuser> we using cdbs or dh now?
[17:33] <Riddell> unikuser: whichever you want
[17:33] <Riddell> just rename one of them to debian/rules
[17:33] <ericthefish> Riddell: do we need to edit the rules files or just use one provided?
[17:33] <gourgi> we need to edir rules ?
[17:34] <Riddell> ericthefish: the ones provided should work fine
[17:34] <nareshov> the cdbs one looks more like the port.bsd.mk :d
[17:34] <stuffcorpse> where are those dh_testdir defined?
[17:34] <Riddell> stuffcorpse: they're perl scripts from the debhelper package
[17:34] <Riddell> stuffcorpse: they all have man pages so you can loop up what they're doing
[17:34] <stuffcorpse> Riddel: thanks
[17:34] <gourgi> Riddell: we need to edit something in rules ?
[17:34] <stdin> you all might want to make sure you have build-essential and debhelper installed :)
[17:34] <Riddell> gourgi: no, it should be fine
[17:35] <gourgi> ok
[17:35] <Riddell> Now there's the 1.docbook file which is what we'll (as I've stated before) turn into a manpage. It's simply a template for KDE apps. Here we can simply add descriptions and the program name as needed. Don't forget to save as kraft.1.docbook .
[17:35] <stdin> (and cdbs if you're using it)
[17:35] <Riddell> that's it for packaging
[17:35] <Riddell> you can now build your package!
[17:35] <Riddell> install fakeroot and devscripts
[17:35] <Riddell> and run "debuild"
[17:36] <unikuser> there's only instruction to build manpages in rules file?
[17:36] <abhidg> while in the debian/ directory?
[17:36] <unikuser> what about make,make install?
[17:36] <Riddell> it'll work in the debian/ directory, you can also run it from the directory above
[17:36] <limac> so how exactly does this help us make .deb packages?
[17:36] <Riddell> unikuser: are you looking at the cdbs rules file?
[17:37] <unikuser> yes. 	docbook2x-man debian/app.1.docbook...
[17:37] <Riddell> unikuser: all the make, make install etc for that is hidden in "include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk"
[17:37] <unikuser> oh. big file.
[17:37] <Riddell> unikuser: so the only thing it needs to do is define the custom parts which need to be built, in this case the man page
[17:38] <Riddell> unikuser: if you look at the rules.dh file, it has the ./configure and MAKE in it
[17:38] <Riddell> has anyone got it building?
[17:38] <nareshov> Riddell: is there something wrong with " kraft (0.20-0ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low" ?
[17:38] <Riddell> nareshov: no space at the start
[17:38] <Fu86> parsechangelog/debian: error: unrecognised line, at file debian/changelog line 1
[17:38] <nareshov> k
[17:38] <apachelogger> hmmm
[17:38] <unikuser> ok
[17:39] <nareshov> where should the .orig.tar.gz file be?
[17:39] <nareshov> (it's outside my kraft-0.20/ dir currently)
[17:39] <Riddell> nareshov: that's the right place
[17:39] <nareshov> ah, "_" instead of "-"
[17:39] <stdin> make sure it's named "kraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz"
[17:40] <Riddell> yes, the underscore is important so it finds the .orig file
[17:40] <thefoxx> it builds....
[17:40] <Riddell> yay!
[17:40] <thefoxx> error with signing...
[17:40] <elisiano> Riddell: parsechangelog/debian: error: unrecognised line, at file debian/changelog line 1
[17:40] <thefoxx> hm why I'm looking
[17:40] <apachelogger> elisiano: remove white space at the beginning of line 1
[17:40] <Riddell> thefoxx: that just means you don't have a gpg key set up with the e-mail address you gave
[17:41] <Riddell> that'll be covered in the next talk
[17:41] <thefoxx> but I have it
[17:41] <apachelogger> debuild -us -uc for now
[17:41] <Riddell> thefoxx: ask in the next talk :)
[17:41] <thefoxx> and:
[17:41] <thefoxx> dpkg-genchanges: not including original source code in upload
[17:41] <thefoxx> dpkg-buildpackage (debuild emulation): binary and diff upload (original source NOT included)
[17:41] <matthias_> dh_clean: I have no package to build
[17:41] <Riddell> as apachelogger says, that'll stop the gpg errors
[17:41] <matthias_> debuild: fatal error at line 1247:
[17:41] <apachelogger> thefoxx: please retar/rename the tarball
[17:42] <apachelogger> bunzip2 kraft-0.20*bz2
[17:42] <ricercia> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: docbook2x
[17:42] <ricercia> debuild: fatal error at line 993:
[17:42] <apachelogger> gzip kraft*tar
[17:42] <cheguevara> gotta install all the build depends first
[17:42] <nareshov> I need to have those builddeps installed :|
[17:42] <apachelogger> mv kraft-0.20.tar.gz kraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz
[17:42] <thefoxx> which tarball? I have the .orig one inside...
[17:42] <Riddell> ricercia: install docbook2x
[17:42] <thefoxx> okay
[17:42] <apachelogger> thefoxx: please move outside of kraft-0.20/
[17:42] <cheguevara> nareshov, yeah otherwise how is it gonna build?
[17:42] <nareshov> hehe
[17:42] <thefoxx> apachelogger, its outside
[17:42] <ricercia> Riddell: thanks
[17:42] <apachelogger> thefoxx: so ensure it is properly named ;-)
[17:42] <Riddell> matthias_: not sure what's going on there, do you have the kraft sources and the debian directory inside them?
[17:42] <cheguevara> ok mine is building
[17:43] <Fu86> mine building too
[17:43] <dthacker> badly formatted header line in changelog
[17:43] <nareshov> mine too :D
[17:44] <thefoxx> I think its properly named cause there isn't te naming error anymore but when I rename it there is an error
[17:44] <Riddell> dthacker: make sure there's no space at the start of the first line
[17:44] <ricercia> dpkg-source: warning: unknown information field 'Homepage' in input data in general section of control info file
[17:44] <stdin> "kraft (0.20-0ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low"
[17:44] <dthacker> kraft(0.20-0ubuntu1) hardy; urgency=low
[17:44] <Riddell> ricercia: that's fine
[17:44] <matthias_> Riddell: yes, maybe thar one :"dpkg-source: warning: unknown information field 'Homepage' in input data in general section of control info file"
[17:44] <dthacker> ah need a space after "kraft"
[17:44] <Riddell> matthias_: that's fine
[17:44] <Riddell> matthias_: is it building?
[17:45] <ricercia> Riddell: it's not fine it isn't building:
[17:45] <matthias_> Riddell: no the last message is : "dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source"
[17:45] <matthias_> Riddell: and then "debuild: fatal error at line 1247:"
[17:45] <thefoxx> the package is there but I wil look a bit for the error
[17:46] <ricercia> Riddell: No, but i got sum other error messages :-(
[17:46] <nareshov> make: *** [install] Error 1
[17:46] <ricercia> the last 1 is dpkg-source -b kraft-0.20 failed
[17:46] <nareshov> debuild: fatal error at line 1247: :{
[17:46] <cheguevara> ok mine built
[17:46] <cheguevara> well it couldnt' sign
[17:46] <dthacker> where's the orig file?
[17:46] <apachelogger> EVERYONE WITH ERRORS PLEASE PASTE THE WHOLE OUTPUT TO http://pastebin.ubuntu.com
[17:46] <apachelogger> dthacker: same folder as kraft-0.20/
[17:47] <nareshov> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2695/ ::|
[17:47] <Fu86> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2696/
[17:47] <dthacker> umm I'm not sure where that is, it didn't show up when I downloaded the template
[17:47] <stdin> line 31 of the rules.dh should be changed from "$(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/packageName" to "$(MAKE) install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/kraft"
[17:47] <apachelogger> nareshov: please paste your debian/control
[17:48] <ericthefish> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2697/
[17:48] <cheguevara> http://senduit.com/2e8ff5
[17:48] <apachelogger> indeed
[17:48] <ricercia> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2698/
[17:48] <apachelogger> EVERYONE WHO USED THE RULES.DH, PLEASE DO AS stdin SAID ABOVE :p
[17:48] <nareshov> apachelogger: ow, was missing the Package: field
[17:48] <thefoxx> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/15404/
[17:49] <stdin> ericthefish: make sure the debian/changelog and debian/control both say "kraft" not "kraft-0.20.orig.tar.gz"
[17:49] <ericthefish> stdin: thanks
[17:50] <dthacker> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2699/
[17:50] <apachelogger> Fu86: please paste your diff.gz (in the same directory as the orig.tar)
[17:50] <Fu86> the (midified) dh-files worked!
[17:50] <apachelogger> ricercia: it appears you don't have an actual gzip file
[17:50] <thefoxx> my package was build but it only includes the docs... I will try the dh on
[17:50] <thefoxx> e
[17:50] <Fu86> *modified
[17:51] <stdin> thefoxx: you're missing the long description in debian/control
[17:51] <cheguevara> whats the proper way to clean
[17:51] <gourgi> so for rules.cdbs we shoud change  line 6 ,line 10 and line 14 from "app" to "kraft" ?
[17:51] <ricercia> apachelogger: a gzip file of wat?
[17:51] <cheguevara> to build again
[17:51] <stdin> thefoxx: like this http://stdin.pastebin.com/d62aeae2d
[17:51] <apachelogger> ricercia: of the source ;-) ... please redownload and bunzip;gzip;mv as stated above
[17:51] <nareshov> apachelogger: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2700/
[17:51] <thefoxx> ah okay i had this description but there was a error so I removed it
[17:52] <thefoxx> it must be with spaces....
[17:52] <stdin> dthacker: make sure you named the tar.gz "kraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz"
[17:52] <ricercia> i have the source code already
[17:52] <stdin> thefoxx: yes, it must be indented with a space on each line
[17:53] <stdin> anyone still getting errors?
[17:53] <nareshov> me
[17:53] <nareshov> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2700/
[17:53] <dthacker> stdin: where do I get that tar file?
[17:53] <apachelogger> hm
[17:53] <apachelogger> nareshov: please remove the listed files manually
[17:53] <stdin> dthacker: it's the tar.bz2 you downloaded
[17:53] <apachelogger> for some reason the clean rule doesn't catch them
[17:53] <nareshov> oh
[17:53] <nareshov> those .gmo files?
[17:53] <nareshov> remove them?
[17:53] <apachelogger> yes
[17:54] <Riddell> if you missed something, jpatrick's talk notes are at http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/kubuntu-pkg-talk
[17:54] <apachelogger> nareshov: you can also backup the debian dir and untar again
[17:54] <Artemis_Fowl> nice...
[17:54] <dthacker> stdin: all I have is the package stuff in debian-tem
[17:54] <stdin> dthacker: you didn't "wget http://downloads.sourceforge.net/kraft/kraft-0.20.tar.bz2" ?
[17:55] <Artemis_Fowl> ... 'cause I missed the whole thing
[17:55] <nareshov> removed them manually, building now
[17:55] <stdin> so, who has a shiny new .deb now ?
[17:55] <stuffcorpse> me :)
[17:55] <matthias_> is there a make distclean??
[17:55] <ricercia> not me :-(
[17:55] <dholbach> matthias_: try  debclean
[17:56] <Fu86> still building ...
[17:56] <stdin> well done stuffcorpse :)
[17:56] <thefoxx> again only with the man page files
[17:56] <cheguevara> apachelogger or stdin when you make a mistake and wanna build again but then keep getting dpkg-source: unrepresentable changes to source
[17:56] <cheguevara> what should i do
[17:56] <matthias_> dholbach: thx
[17:56] <cheguevara> oh debclean
[17:56] <cheguevara> acutally that dont help
[17:56] <apachelogger> IIRC debuild should do a clean :P
[17:56] <thefoxx> okay I see "debuild: fatal error at line 1247:" but of which file?
[17:56] <dholbach> apachelogger: yeah
[17:57] <elisiano> well it seems to be built
[17:57] <apachelogger> cheguevara: backup your debian dir
[17:57] <apachelogger> remove the sources
[17:57] <apachelogger> untar them again
[17:57] <dthacker> not me
[17:57] <apachelogger> move the debian dir in
[17:57] <stuffcorpse> i dpkg -i it and it works great!
[17:57] <cheguevara> kk apachelogger
[17:57] <dholbach> and make sure you get the name for the orig.tar.gz right and have the proper version number in debian/changelog
[17:57] <dholbach> else you will mess the build up again
[17:57] <stuffcorpse> thanks guys
[17:57] <apachelogger> thefoxx: there must be some more output about that error
[17:57]  * apachelogger hands stuffcorpse a cookie
[17:57] <nareshov> I have a kraft_0.20-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb :D
[17:58] <apachelogger> :D
[17:58] <dholbach> nareshov: congratulations!
[17:58]  * Riddell hugs nareshov 
[17:58] <stuffcorpse> thanks apachelogger!
[17:58]  * apachelogger also gives nareshov a cookie :)
[17:58] <dholbach> well done
[17:58] <nareshov> thankie :)
[17:58] <apachelogger> ah what the hell
[17:58] <thefoxx> apachelogger, yes but I'm unable to find there more informaitone... one moment I will paost it
[17:58]  * apachelogger gives everyone a cookie
[17:58] <apachelogger> *cheer*
[17:58] <dholbach> hehe :)
[17:58] <Riddell> the next talk will begin in a couple of moments
[17:58] <nareshov> :D
[17:58] <Nightrose> yay cookie
[17:58] <apachelogger> 3 minutes
[17:58] <Riddell> if you're having problems with the last one stick around and you can ask for help afterwards
[17:58] <stuffcorpse> also thanks Riddell it's been great
[17:59] <Riddell> there's more information on packaging at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PackagingGuide
[17:59] <cheguevara> ok its building now
[17:59] <cheguevara> thanks apachelogger
[17:59] <apachelogger> you're welcome
[17:59] <thefoxx> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/15407/ << but its after I already build the package and so it's "unclean" and will not compile again
[17:59] <Riddell> if it's KDE related you can ask for help in here at any time, or in #ubuntu-motu for any package
[17:59] <apachelogger> oh
[17:59] <stdin> thefoxx: rm -f debian/packageName
[17:59] <ricercia> dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory :-(
[18:00] <apachelogger> ricercia: please paste the complete output
[18:00] <thefoxx> stdin, thank you I will try now again
[18:00] <dholbach> Welcome everybody to the session called "how to get your stuff into Kubuntu!"
[18:00] <matthias_> thefoxx: I have the same err, did you six it?
[18:00] <thefoxx> matthias_, no...
[18:00] <ricercia> apachelogger: sorry, here ya go http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2701/
[18:00] <dholbach> My name is Daniel Holbach, have been part of the MOTU for quite a while and try to make joining the Ubuntu Developers as easy as possible - if you have any questions during the tutorial, just ask
[18:00] <Riddell> folks, if you're having problems with the last talk, please wait an hour and ask for help then
[18:01] <thefoxx> and the package will not build anymore
[18:01] <apachelogger> or go to #kubuntu
[18:01] <dholbach> if you have any other complaints, ideas, suggestions, feel free to drop me an email
[18:01] <thefoxx> some minutes ago it worked but only with man pages
[18:01] <apachelogger> thefoxx: #kubuntu or query me
[18:01] <dholbach> so how do you get your changes into (k)Ubuntu?
[18:01] <dholbach> in the easiest case you have written a patch and want to get it in, so people on the whole world will benefit from it
[18:01] <nareshov> neat, it runs too (did a `sudo dpkg -i ../kraft_*.deb)!
[18:02] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff is a tutorial to generate a debdiff for a simple change
[18:02] <dholbach> if we have time in the end, we can go through it together, for guys who have just packaged a .deb, it will be a piece of cake :)
[18:02] <nareshov> :)
[18:03] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess explains everything about getting patches into Ubuntu
[18:03] <dholbach> the process is quite straight-forward
[18:03] <dholbach> you will either follow up on an existing bug or file a new one against the package
[18:03] <dholbach> and attach your debdiff there
[18:03] <dholbach> please be clear about what your patch does, that way it's guaranteed to get in quicker :)
[18:04] <dholbach> then you will either subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors (for packages that are in main or restricted)
[18:04] <dholbach> or subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (for packages that are in universe or multiverse)
[18:04] <dholbach> does that make sense up until now?
[18:04] <cheguevara> aye
[18:04] <dholbach> those bug lists are triaged regularly
[18:04] <nareshov> aye
[18:04] <dholbach> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ is a list of outstanding sponsoring request
[18:05] <dholbach> sponsoring means: somebody who is an ubuntu developer already will take your patch, apply it to the current source package, sign it with their gpg key, then upload it to the build daemons
[18:05] <dholbach> so what do we do for packages that are not in Ubuntu already?
[18:06] <dholbach> you can't attach a patch for a package that doesn't exist in the archive yet
[18:06] <dholbach> right now they get uploaded to REVU: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU has more information on how to upload there
[18:07] <dholbach> REVU is a platform written by MOTUs that allows commenting and approving packages, looking at the diff of uploads, etc
[18:07] <dholbach> http://revu.tauware.de is what it looks like
[18:07] <dholbach> for being able to upload there, you need to add your GPG key to Launchpad
[18:07] <dholbach> and then join this team: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-contributors
[18:07] <Fu86> MOTU?
[18:07] <dholbach> Fu86: good question
[18:08] <dholbach> MOTU are the Masters of the Universe
[18:08] <xRaich[o]2x> lol
[18:08] <Fu86> ;D
[18:08] <Artemis_Fowl> :-D
[18:08] <dholbach> MOTU is the onramp for becoming an Ubuntu Developer
[18:08] <nareshov> :D
[18:08] <dholbach> these guys have upload rights to universe and multiverse
[18:08] <dholbach> that's where for example NEW packages always start
[18:08]  * ubunturos had guessed, universe meant the repo (and not literally) ;)
[18:08] <dholbach> do we have MOTUs inhere?
[18:08] <dholbach> ubunturos: exactly :)
[18:09]  * apachelogger raises his hand
[18:09]  * dholbach spotted apachelogger and jpatrick before
[18:09] <dholbach> we need more MOTUs in here! :-)))
[18:09] <apachelogger> indeed :D
[18:09] <dholbach> yeah
[18:09] <DreadKnight> I'm on my way of becoming a MOTU ... a goal for the upcoming year ;)
[18:09] <nareshov> jpatrick fell of the internet :|
[18:09] <dholbach> DreadKnight: excellent news - let me know how it goes
[18:09] <dholbach> the process for becoming a MOTU yourself is quite straight-forward too:
[18:09] <DreadKnight> dholbach: :D sure
[18:09] <dholbach>  * you get a bunch of good uploads done
[18:10] <dholbach>  * until your sponsors have only good things to say about you and tired of them having to upload your stuff :-)
[18:10] <apachelogger> ^_^
[18:10] <dholbach>  * you apply for MOTU membership
[18:10] <cheguevara> :P
[18:10] <dholbach> that'S it
[18:10] <dholbach> no catch, nothing complicated :)
[18:10] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers has more information on how you do it
[18:10]  * stdin adds "Become a MOTU" to his todo list (again)
[18:11] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted has all the links you need to get started
[18:11] <dholbach> stdin: ROCK ON
[18:11] <dholbach> Fu86: I hope that answered your question
[18:11] <Fu86> yes, thanks!
[18:11] <dholbach> great
[18:11] <cheguevara> stdin, am sure Riddel is tired of uploading ur packages by now :P
[18:11] <dholbach> hehe
[18:11] <dholbach> alright... back to REVU
[18:11] <stdin> cheguevara: nah, saves him the work :p
[18:12]  * dthacker joins the contributors team.
[18:12] <cheguevara> would save him even more if u did it yourself :P
[18:12] <dholbach> as I said: if you've followed the instructions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU you should have no problem getting your package uploaded to REVU and it should get a review
[18:12] <dholbach> if you HAVE problems, be sure to join #ubuntu-motu and talk to the REVU admins about it
[18:12] <dholbach> you can also ask for reviews on #ubuntu-motu or ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com
[18:12] <Riddell> or here!
[18:12] <dholbach> right-o
[18:12] <Riddell> if it's KDE related
[18:12] <dholbach> sure
[18:13] <dholbach> it's also a good idea to file a bug saying "this app needs packaging" and assign it to yourself
[18:13] <dholbach> best to tag it as needs-packaging too
[18:13] <dholbach> that way people realize: somebody is working on this already
[18:13] <nareshov> ah
[18:13] <dholbach> you might notice that they show up on http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ as well
[18:14] <dholbach> packaging of completely new software isn't necessarily trivial
[18:14] <DreadKnight> the gnome MOTUS seem kinda lazy :D
[18:14] <dholbach> that's why it takes several iterations of reviews to get it completely right
[18:14] <dholbach> DreadKnight: I'm not sure about that :)
[18:14] <dholbach> anyway... some problems that new package have regularly are:
[18:14] <dholbach> mentioned on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#CommonMistakes
[18:15] <dholbach>  * licensing and copyright problems
[18:15] <dholbach>  * repacked tarball (not the original one from the software homepage)
[18:15] <dholbach> and other bits you can find on that page
[18:15] <DreadKnight> :)
[18:15] <dholbach> getting debian/copyright right is the most important thing
[18:16] <nareshov> should be
[18:16] <dholbach> you have to make sure you check every copyright holder in every file in the tree
[18:16] <dholbach> make sure you list all the necessary licenses that that piece of software uses, etc
[18:16] <dholbach> Ubuntu can get in real trouble if that goes wrong
[18:16] <ubunturos> +
[18:16] <dholbach> that's why first the MOTUs check it, and after that the archive-admins
[18:17] <dholbach> I use the following short script to get an overview, when I do reviews
[18:17] <dholbach> http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/check-copyright
[18:17] <_nix_> quite a legalese involved there.. things should be much easiar in the mains repository
[18:18] <dholbach> _nix_: especially things that are in main are checked with more scrutiny
[18:18] <dholbach> _nix_: we can always remove software from the archive
[18:18] <_nix_> oh.. k
[18:18] <dholbach> try that with millions of pressed CDs
[18:18] <DreadKnight> :D
[18:18] <gourgi> lol
[18:18] <dholbach> in any case: be extra careful, ask others to check and you're fine
[18:19] <dholbach> more information on the whole copyright topic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#Copyright
[18:19] <dholbach> we have REVU Days in #ubuntu-motu every Monday
[18:19] <dholbach> so if your NEW package sits in REVU you might want to show up and ask for a review
[18:19] <dholbach> that makes the back and forth usually quicker
[18:19] <dholbach> after two MOTUs gave their OK to the new package, it gets uploaded
[18:20] <dholbach> any questions about NEW packages and REVU?
[18:20] <Artemis_Fowl> nope
[18:20] <DreadKnight> hmm
[18:20] <DreadKnight> me
[18:20] <nareshov> hmm
[18:20] <dholbach> DreadKnight: fire away
[18:20] <DreadKnight> what if i have a game project, using 2 licences
[18:20] <apachelogger> note: one can always ask me personally for a revu ;-)
[18:21] <dholbach> DreadKnight: where it's dual-licensed?
[18:21] <dthacker> dholbach: I'm working on packaging an app that debian pulled for copyright problems, which in turned caused it to fall out of Ubuntu,  Can I just build it for ubuntu if the problems are resolved?
[18:21] <dholbach> DreadKnight: if it says you're allowed to choose, you can choose
[18:21] <DreadKnight> like one for the engine, GPL and another for the graphics and stuff (which is not open source) ? can i have this as 2 different packages, like one from the main and the other from the multiverse or something?
[18:21] <apachelogger> dthacker: you should get the original debian maintainer to upload it to debian again
[18:21] <apachelogger> then we just sync
[18:21] <cheguevara> main can't depend on universe
[18:21] <dholbach> DreadKnight: if it just happens to include files that are for example GPL and others are LGPL, then make sure 1) both license texts are included in the tarball, 2) you mention everything in debian/copyright
[18:22] <DreadKnight> so for this example, in which repository would the game files end into ?
[18:22] <dthacker> apachelogger: he has orphaned the package
[18:22] <dholbach> DreadKnight: for multiverse it must be re-distributable
[18:23] <DreadKnight> dholbach: yes, but not re-editable
[18:23] <apachelogger> dthacker: well, it's still better to try getting it into debian, though if that doesn't work out you can do ubuntu I guess ;-)
[18:23] <dholbach> DreadKnight: so a is closed-source and depends on b that is open-source?
[18:23]  * dthacker would much rather work with ubuntu than debian, but if there is no other way....
[18:24] <DreadKnight> dholbach: something like that
[18:24] <dholbach> dthacker: sure there is: get it uploaded to ubuntu if it's blocked on something in debian
[18:24] <Riddell> dthacker: you can just get it uploaded to ubuntu
[18:24] <dthacker> ok, that's good to know.
[18:24] <dholbach> DreadKnight: in that case a would go to multiverse and b to universe
[18:24] <dholbach> DreadKnight: if it was the other way around, both would have to be in multiverse
[18:24] <dholbach> DreadKnight: universe can't depends on multiverse
[18:25] <dholbach> does that make sense?
[18:25] <DreadKnight> yes it does
[18:25] <DreadKnight> thanks :)
[18:25] <dholbach> ok rock and roll
[18:25] <dholbach> any more questions?
[18:25] <DreadKnight> um
[18:25] <DreadKnight> yeah
[18:25] <apachelogger> :)
[18:25] <wolfger> have we covered PPA yet?
[18:25] <apachelogger> wolfger: no
[18:25] <dholbach> DreadKnight: fire away
[18:25] <DreadKnight> can you be my menthor? :D
[18:25] <dholbach> wolfger: will be up next
[18:26] <limac> so what exactly does REVU stand for?
[18:26] <apachelogger> review
[18:26] <dholbach> DreadKnight: I'm not sure you'll be happy with me as your mentor, atm I'm very busy, but drop me a mail and we'll figure something out
[18:26] <limac> that's it
[18:26] <apachelogger> as in I review your package :P
[18:26] <limac> ?
[18:26] <DreadKnight> dholbach: that sounds good :)
[18:26] <dholbach> DreadKnight: great
[18:26] <limac> hahaha :d
[18:26] <dholbach> ok, moving on to PPA
[18:26] <limac> :D
[18:26] <sladen> limac: it's a sound-alike of the English word "Review"
[18:26] <limac> ah!
[18:26] <_nix_> ok PPA everyone
[18:26] <limac> hehehe
[18:26] <limac> PPA
[18:27] <dholbach> as most of you have realized: PPA are a great way to get packages built on a bunch of architectures and upload packages for testing
[18:27] <dholbach> the tutorial for it is available over here: http://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
[18:27] <sladen> Personal Package Archives, an apt repositary ("channel") hosted within Launchpad, for your own programs and software
[18:27] <nareshov> ah
[18:28] <dholbach> basically you have to 1) make sure you have everything set up in Launchpad correctly, 2) set up one local configuration
[18:28] <dholbach> it's explained quite detailed in the guide
[18:28] <dholbach> one thing that's quite important to point out is versioning
[18:28] <limac> i really need to go over the "creating a .deb package" tutorial again!!!!!
[18:29] <dholbach> you have to make sure you version your package correctly so upgrade paths still work
[18:29] <dholbach> let's suppose you upload a candidate revision of kmyapp 1.2.3, you want people to test it before that or your sponsor to review it
[18:30] <dholbach> the official version in ubuntu would probably be       1.2.3-0ubuntu1
[18:30] <dholbach> to have a version number that is smaller than that, we have the   ~  operator
[18:30] <dholbach> ~ is special as it makes     1.2.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1   smaller than    1.2.3-0ubuntu1
[18:31] <nareshov> oh
[18:31] <dholbach> also in a next iteration, you can still upload    1.2.3-0ubuntu1~ppa2   to PPA
[18:31] <dholbach> and the upgrade path will still work for your testers
[18:31] <dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~$ dpkg --compare-versions 1.2.3-0ubuntu1~ppa1 lt 1.2.3-0ubuntu1; echo $?
[18:31] <dholbach> 0
[18:31] <dholbach> daniel@lovegood:~
[18:32] <dholbach> dpkg --compare-versions    can sometimes be helpful for trying this out beforehand :)
[18:32] <dholbach> the other thing about  PPAs is the ogre model
[18:33] <dholbach> let's suppose you have a Kubuntu app that has a hell of a lot of build-depends in universe
[18:33] <dholbach> in that case, you will have to indicate that in debian/control
[18:33] <dholbach> so instead of       Section: web      you'd write something like        Section: universe/web
[18:33] <dholbach> to indicate: "please add universe if you try building my application"
[18:34] <stdin> dholbach: erm, not to interrupt, but there is no orge model in PPA any more
[18:34] <dholbach> stdin: there isn't?
[18:34] <apachelogger> nope
[18:34] <stdin> nope, it was removed
[18:34] <DreadKnight> what's this ogre model you guys are talking about?
[18:34] <stdin> "simpler for users"
[18:34] <dholbach> I stand corrected then
[18:34] <dholbach> thanks stdin, thanks apachelogger
[18:34] <dholbach> DreadKnight: forget about it :)
[18:34] <DreadKnight> xD
[18:34] <DreadKnight> done that
[18:34] <dholbach> DreadKnight: the important bit is the versioning then :)
[18:34] <dholbach> that's all there is to PPAs
[18:34] <dholbach> any questions about it?
[18:35] <DreadKnight> me
[18:35] <dholbach> shoot
[18:35] <wolfger> so nothing tricky about depending on Universe then?
[18:35] <wolfger> with Ogre gone?
[18:35] <dholbach> wolfger: no, doesn't look like it
[18:35] <DreadKnight> a PPA can automaticaly compile for an specific OS from the source?  like .deb files or .exe?
[18:35] <stdin> DreadKnight: PPA's only build debs
[18:35] <dholbach> DreadKnight: I don't know what the plans are, but until now it only builds for Ubuntu
[18:36] <DreadKnight> oh i see :)
[18:36] <DreadKnight> thanks
[18:36] <dholbach> what's nice about it, is that if you change         "hardy"        in debian/changelog entry to         "gutsy"        it will build the package against gutsy
[18:36] <nareshov> DreadKnight: build.opensuse.org for fedora et al
[18:37]  * stdin boos rpm, *boo*
[18:37] <nareshov> :D
[18:37] <DreadKnight> thanks, it's nice
[18:37] <apachelogger> wolfger: you package land in whatever it build-deps on - if it depends only on main apps it goes main, if it only depends on universe it goes there, etc.
[18:37] <dholbach> so you guys think you have an overview over the different methods of getting your stuff into Ubuntu now?
[18:37] <DreadKnight> but would be nicer for developers to build for other operating system as well
[18:37] <nareshov> yes, more-or-less
[18:37] <dholbach> the current state is a bit of a status-quo
[18:37] <dholbach> REVU for new package, bugs with patches for simple changes, etc
[18:37] <apachelogger> DreadKnight: opensuse's build service does that, but that one is also longer in developer
[18:38] <dholbach> I hope that we can move it all to launchpad at some stage
[18:38]  * apachelogger would love that too
[18:38] <DreadKnight> apachelogger: will check it out soon :)
[18:38] <dholbach> any more questions about becoming an ubuntu developer?
[18:38] <dholbach> or processes in ubuntu-dev land?
[18:39] <mzungu> yes...
[18:39] <dholbach> mzungu: fire away
[18:39] <dholbach> apachelogger: I have plans for ppaput (ubuntu-dev-tools) to not only do NEW packages, but also attach patches etc
[18:39] <mzungu> there is a program which has a .deb pacgage, but not in ubuntu
[18:39] <mzungu> it's not mine
[18:39] <mzungu> and upstream seems dead
[18:39] <dholbach> mzungu: .deb packages are unfortunately a bit worthless from a developer point of view
[18:40] <mzungu> but it is good, and i always load onto an ubuntu install
[18:40] <dholbach> we only do source uploads
[18:40] <apachelogger> dholbach: sounds good
[18:40] <mzungu> yes - there is source too
[18:40] <dholbach> so we upload the .orig.tar.gz, the .diff.gz and the .dsc file and the deb will be built from there
[18:40] <mzungu> but not mine, and apparently not maintained - but it works
[18:40] <dholbach> mzungu: then it's best to take a look at it, improve it and get it submitted to REVU
[18:40] <apachelogger> dholbach: don't we only include software which is active maintained?
[18:41] <dholbach> if you take over maintenance that's a great contribution to Ubuntu that's great
[18:41] <mzungu> ok - so should i email upstream to see what they have to say?
[18:41] <dholbach> mzungu: good idea
[18:41] <mzungu> ok - on it
[18:41] <dholbach> apachelogger: right, that's a good point too
[18:42] <dholbach> if you package a piece of software and intend to be the maintainer, you'll be the connection between upstream and kubuntu
[18:42] <dholbach> you really want to work with an active upstreams who deals with bugs, etc
[18:42] <apachelogger> so... keep an addressbook ;-)
[18:42] <dholbach> so I'd encourage you to make sure upstream is still alive :)
[18:42] <dholbach> any more questions?
[18:42] <dholbach> just keep on asking :)
[18:43] <limac> yeah kinda
[18:43] <dholbach> limac: fire away
[18:43] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted is the best start I can think of for you to get "Master of the Universe" on your business cards
[18:43] <limac> well, actually nm; i found out the answer
[18:43] <mzungu> sure - but we always seem to have 'active' (read - always changing) stuff, and there's some other stuff out there which is stable and works, even if not maintained
[18:44] <Riddell> I had a few words about passing New queue
[18:44] <dthacker> dholbach: does ubuntu have an orphaned package list similar to debians?
[18:44] <dholbach> mzungu: we have some million users, there's always "something" about software :)
[18:44] <rick_h_> dholbach: should link to the guy doing the MOTU diary thing. Good wiki to follow
[18:44] <dholbach> dthacker: not that I know of
[18:44] <dholbach> dthacker: we maintain packages as a team, not as individual maintainer
[18:45] <dholbach> dthacker: MOTU takes care of an awful lot of packages, so there's not a real concept of orphaning packages, we remove software that is too old and too buggy in some cases though
[18:45] <dholbach> rick_h_: good point
[18:45] <dholbach> Riddell: fire away
[18:45] <Riddell> once a package has been reviewed on REVU and get uploaded
[18:45] <Riddell> it sits in New queue
[18:45] <Riddell> where it gets reviewed again by archive admins
[18:45] <Riddell> twice actually
[18:45] <Riddell> you can see the packages currently in New queue here http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/hardy/new/
[18:46] <limac> dholback: what exactly does a PPA do, I mean like what are its benifits
[18:46] <limac> ??
[18:46] <rick_h_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EfrainValles/MOTUJourney
[18:46] <Riddell> the main thing we look for is copyright issues
[18:46] <rick_h_> ^^ has done some good work making the MOTU journey a step by step process of learning
[18:46] <Riddell> we do reject a fair number of packages for copyright problems
[18:46] <Riddell> the packager than has to talk to upstream to fix those problems
[18:46] <Riddell> packages not including the full GPL are a common problem
[18:47] <Riddell> sometimes packages include the GPL but not the LGPL and have code under both
[18:47] <Riddell> unless we have the full licence we can't accept it
[18:47] <stdin> limac: I'd bet the launchpad build systems are a bit faster than your PC, and I'd bet they have better bandwidth too ;)
[18:47] <Riddell> same for FDL.  KDE packages have their docs under FDL usually, so it needs a full FDL to be let past
[18:47] <limac> ok
[18:47] <Riddell> we also look out for packages with overly generic names
[18:47] <limac> ;0
[18:47] <Riddell> or which make binaries with very generic names
[18:47] <dholbach> "mp3player" :)
[18:47] <Riddell> so a package called "hello" which makes /usr/bin/hello wouldn't pass
[18:48] <Riddell> guidance is an example, it got renamed to kde-guidance
[18:48] <Riddell> the other licencing issue I see a lot is non source files
[18:48] <Riddell> if it's GPL then you have to include the perferred modifiable form
[18:48] <yuriy> stdin: are they actually faster?  i've yet to try it but i was wondering, given the load, if getting a package built in a PPA is significantly faster or slower than building it on a fairly new pc?
[18:48] <Riddell> so for some artwork that means SVG not PNG
[18:48] <Riddell> for sounds that means oggs often don't pass
[18:49] <dholbach> yuriy: you have the benefit of it getting built on a bunch of different architectures
[18:49] <Riddell> as an archive admin I also look after approving backports, removing packages and other stuff, fell free to poke me on tuesdays which is my admin day
[18:49] <rick_h_> yuriy: the build time of a PPA is going to vary based on how busy the build servers are. Generally a few hours.
[18:49] <rick_h_> but you get packages for 64bit, 32bit, etc which is great for PPA users
[18:49] <Riddell> and file bugs subscribing ubuntu-archive
[18:49] <stdin> yuriy: so much faster it'll make your eyes bleed :p
[18:49] <Riddell> k, I'm done
[18:49] <dholbach> rock on
[18:50] <dthacker> Riddell: what about icons, also svg?
[18:50] <dholbach> thanks Riddell
[18:50] <Riddell> dthacker: it depends on how they're made
[18:50] <Riddell> dthacker: whatever the form the artists has made it in
[18:50] <Riddell> oh and archive admins are called ftpmasters in Debian land incase you're reading up on it
[18:51] <dholbach> another thing that comes to my mind, when you submit patches
[18:51] <dholbach> it's always good to add     (LP: #123456)   for the bugs that the upload will close
[18:51] <dholbach> that way the bug will automatically get closed when LP accepts the upload
[18:52] <apachelogger> ...in debian/changelog that is!
[18:52] <dholbach> exactly
[18:52]  * dholbach got up too early today
[18:52] <apachelogger> e.g. * Initial release (LP: #123456)
[18:52] <apachelogger> dholbach: me too ;-)
[18:52] <dholbach> tomorrow we'll have a MOTU Q&A at 13:00 UTC in #ubuntu-classroom
[18:52] <Riddell> limac asked what a PPA is.  it's a personal package archive on launchpad.  you can upload your source packages there and it will compile them into .debs for others to download
[18:53] <Riddell> it lets other people test your packages and is useful for new package or packaging beta software (like KDE 4)
[18:53] <dholbach> so if you check out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted today and have questions, be sure to join us tomorrow and ask all the questions you have
[18:53] <Artemis_Fowl> I have a question:
[18:53] <dholbach> Artemis_Fowl: fire away
[18:53] <Artemis_Fowl> I have developed an application and I found out that some days ago:
[18:53] <Artemis_Fowl> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/admin/qgrubeditor
[18:54] <limac> ah! thx Riddell
[18:54] <Artemis_Fowl> my app is on the hardy repos...
[18:54] <Artemis_Fowl> so,
[18:54] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: I packaged it :P
[18:54] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: really? :-P
[18:54] <apachelogger> yes
[18:54] <Fu86> :)
[18:54] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: nice
[18:54] <apachelogger> ^_^
[18:54] <dholbach> apachelogger: meet Artemis_Fowl
[18:55] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: well then I could discuss it with you
[18:55] <dholbach> Artemis_Fowl: meet apachelogger
[18:55] <dholbach> :-)
[18:55] <apachelogger> :D
[18:55] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: sure, just query me
[18:55] <Artemis_Fowl> dholbach: thanks
[18:55] <dholbach> nice :)
[18:55] <dholbach> that's another thing: as MOTU you get in touch with a lot of people :-)
[18:55] <dholbach> users, upstream authors, debian maintainers, other distro maintainers, other ubuntu developers, etc
[18:55] <nixternal> I just got the feeling of introducing people that are related, but have never met before...almost an Oprah moment
[18:55] <dholbach> that's what makes it so gratifying
[18:56] <dholbach> nixternal: haha
[18:56] <jcastro> apachelogger: Artemis_Fowl: During Q+A (In ~6 minutes) I would like to discuss you guys meeting as a question.
[18:56]  * stdin takes the TV remote away from nixternal and leaves it on the 24/7 Oprah channel
[18:56] <dholbach> if there are no more questions, I'd say: see you at 13:00 UTC in #ubuntu-classroom tomorrow
[18:56] <cheguevara> btw https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging has a list of packages people requested to be packed
[18:57] <dholbach> get started: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted :-)
[18:57] <Riddell> oh and I have a bunch of extragear apps for KDE 4 that need packaged if people are wanting to get started
[18:57] <dholbach> cheguevara: yeah
[18:57] <cheguevara> *packaged
[18:57] <dholbach> thanks for all the good questions, hope to see you around in MOTU Land soon!
[18:57] <cheguevara> Riddell, hook me up :P
[18:57] <Riddell> cheguevara: ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/3.97/src/extragear/
[18:58] <Riddell> cheguevara: you can use extragear-plasma as a likely template
[18:58] <cheguevara> i'll take ktorrent
[18:58] <dholbach> have a great (rest of your) day :)
[18:58] <cheguevara> since i use it
[18:58] <cheguevara> thanks a lot dholbach
[18:58] <dholbach> anytime :)
[18:58] <DreadKnight> Riddell: ok, but i need a menthor
[18:59] <Fu86> thanks for this great tutorial!
[18:59] <dholbach> DreadKnight: that's not strictly required - just ask your questions in here, in #ubuntu-motu or on ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
[18:59] <DreadKnight> is there actually a channel - packaging related?
[18:59] <dholbach> ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com I meant
[18:59] <dholbach> #ubuntu-motu
[18:59] <cheguevara> #ubuntu-motu
[18:59] <xRaich[o]2x> wow that are a lot of resources to work through for sure...
[18:59] <DreadKnight> dholbach: great :)
[18:59] <dholbach> rock on
[18:59] <DreadKnight> thanks guys
[18:59] <Riddell> thanks dholbach
[18:59] <dholbach> I mean        R O C K    O N !
[18:59] <cheguevara> dholbach, we'll make you proud
[19:00] <wolfger> information overload... I need a RAM upgrade for my brain
[19:00] <xRaich[o]2x> me too :)
[19:00] <Riddell> nixternal, jcastro: ready for any questions?
[19:00] <cheguevara> now go make the merge queue less, there's only couple hours left
[19:00] <cheguevara> j/k :P
[19:00] <jcastro> Riddell: fire away!
[19:00] <nixternal> Riddell: always ready!
[19:00] <Riddell> let me introduce jcastro and nixternal
[19:00] <Riddell> jcastro works for Canonical as the upstream community relations dude
[19:00] <plavcik> will be log from these tutorials stored somewhere?
[19:01] <Riddell> and nixternal is one of our finest Kubuntu developers and helpers
[19:01] <Riddell> they're open to any questions you may have about Kubuntu
[19:01]  * nixternal blushes
[19:01] <dthacker> and a darn fine guy, even if he is from chitown
[19:01] <Sanne> plavcik: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[19:01] <nixternal> hardy heron har har
[19:01] <plavcik> Sanne: thx
[19:01] <Riddell> anybody got a question?
[19:02] <Sanne> you're welcome, plavcik :)
[19:02] <xRaich[o]2x> what besides packaging is needed for kubuntu-kde4?
[19:02] <nixternal> does Riddell really wear a KDE kilt?
[19:02] <dthacker> Is there a list of kubuntu-docs that need upgrading?
[19:02] <nixternal> oh wait, I am supposed to be answering them
[19:02] <nixternal> dthacker: sure
[19:02] <nixternal> they are in my head currently :)
[19:02] <nixternal> I will get them up the wiki so you can get to work :)
[19:02] <plavcik> these tutorials over IRC are great, where this idea come from?
[19:02]  * dthacker peers inside ooo, that's scary!
[19:02] <limac> so is there any tutorial on how to fixing bugs?
[19:03] <nixternal> dthacker: also feel free to take a look at the current docs and work on or propose some updates and send me some patches
[19:03] <DreadKnight> is there any channel for a qt/kde GUI "konversion" ?
[19:03] <dthacker> now that I know how to set up bzr, I can crank on some stuff.
[19:03] <nixternal> DreadKnight: there is a trolltech/qt4 channel on Freenode somewhere...I been there once :)
[19:03] <stdin> #qt :)
[19:03] <nixternal> plavcik: I have no idea where the idea came from, jcastro ?
[19:03] <nixternal> probably his baby actually
[19:03] <DreadKnight> ok guys, will check it out :)
[19:03] <dthacker> Is there a list of KDE specific things that need packaging?
[19:03] <nixternal> limac: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad
[19:04] <limac> nixternal: thx
[19:04] <nixternal> dthacker: not kde specific, but there is a link to packages that need to be done on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[19:04] <jcastro> nixternal: open week has been around for a while, so these kind of sessions have been ongoing, I don't know who came up with the original idea
[19:04] <dthacker> got it.
[19:04] <nixternal> open week ya, but Kubuntu Days is new :)
[19:04] <cheguevara> dthacker, ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/3.97/src/extragear/ pick one of these
[19:05] <nareshov> Riddell: I'm in for packaging the extragear
[19:05] <nareshov> yeah, that
[19:05] <nixternal> I have done at least 1 session in every Open Week thus far, and plan on doing a ton more in the future :)
[19:05] <Riddell> xRaich[o]2x: depends what you mean by kubuntu-kde4, we have the packages and gutsy CDs, there's more packaging to be done and hardy CDs to be set up
[19:05] <apachelogger> jcastro: what do you want to dicsuss about me and Artemis_Fowl meeting?
[19:05] <jcastro> Riddell: Artemis_Fowl had a question he asked towards the end of the last session which he'll repeat that I'd like to discuss whne he asks
[19:05] <apachelogger> cheguevara: nareshov: bug me if you need a revu
[19:05] <nareshov> ok
[19:05] <cheguevara> apachelogger, will do :P
[19:05] <limac> nixternal: i mean like how to patch and stuff?
[19:06]  * apachelogger will stick around then :P
[19:06] <xRaich[o]2x> Riddell: are you planning a replacement for adept in kde4?
[19:06] <dthacker> cheguevara: it's empty!
[19:06] <nixternal> limac: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[19:06] <cheguevara> dthacker, what is?
[19:06] <nixternal> that will show you how to patch packages and fix some package bugs
[19:06] <dthacker> cheguevara: mn, I'll check later.
[19:06] <Riddell> xRaich[o]2x: I'm hoping we'll help with making a packagekit frontend for kde and use that
[19:06] <DreadKnight> is there anyone hereo who doesn't own a Dvd-rom drive?
[19:06] <nixternal> as for patching upstream code, we typically take the bugs in LP and push them upstream for them to fix if possible
[19:06] <jcastro> apachelogger: right, so something I wanted to answer.
[19:06] <nixternal> Riddell: I would be interested in that deal, the pkgkit kde fe
[19:06] <wolfger> I have a question: Are there plans to have more of these sessions where people in my time zone don't have to take a day off work to attend?
[19:06] <CheGuevara3> now i can register my nick finally
[19:07] <stdin> !register
[19:07] <ubotu> By default, only registered users can send private messages - Information about  registering your Freenode nick can be found at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
[19:07] <dthacker> Next: where should testing of RC cd's be reported, as bugs or on the test result wiki page?
[19:07] <CheGuevara3> stdin, someone already registered CheGuevara, and since nicks on freenode don't seem to expire
[19:07] <apachelogger> wolfger: possibly ;-)
[19:07] <nixternal> there is a CD ISO testing website, but I don't have the link handy... Riddell you have the link for the ISO testing site?
[19:07] <nixternal> dthacker: ^^
[19:07] <CheGuevara3> my launchpad is cheguevara3 anyway
[19:07] <jcastro> .. was the importance of getting packagers and upstream projects together.
[19:07] <Artemis_Fowl> jcastro: OK. I'll repeat the question. My application was recently packaged (without me knowing anything at all) and uploaded on the universe Hardy repositories. Who should I talk to?
[19:07] <stdin> CheGuevara3: if it hasn't been used in over 90 days you can ask a staffer to drop it for you
[19:08] <Riddell> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/build/Kubuntu
[19:08] <jcastro> Artemis_Fowl: that is an excellent question!
[19:08] <nixternal> ya, I just found the link...go go google gadget
[19:08] <Artemis_Fowl> jcastro: :-D
[19:08] <jcastro> first off, I think it's important for upstream projects and their respective packagers to know each other.
[19:08] <jcastro> This can happen many ways
[19:08] <CheGuevara3> stdin, how can i check? (embarrassing question since i run my own irc network)
[19:08] <jcastro> one is, for an upstream project like yourself, you can get ahold of me.
[19:09] <stdin> CheGuevara3: /msg NickServ info <nickname>
[19:09] <CheGuevara3> thats the one
[19:09] <jcastro> or, if you're a packager, getting ahold of the upstream project during the packaging process.
[19:09] <CheGuevara3> i knew that :P
[19:09] <limac> can this tutorial be followed to fix bugs in Kubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix
[19:09] <CheGuevara3>  Last Seen: 3 years 6 weeks 5 days (20h 56m 5s) ago
[19:09] <CheGuevara3> ...
[19:09] <nixternal> limac: that is a good one
[19:09] <jcastro> this is good because a) Upstreams want to make sure their software is packaged with quality in kubuntu.
[19:09] <jcastro> b) tracking down bugs
[19:10] <limac> nixternal; thx. btw what does "nixternal" mean? :D
[19:10] <jcastro> c) general communication
[19:10] <dthacker> limac: wrecksgrossman was taken
[19:10] <jcastro> like for example, if there's a security issue and you want to make sure it gets out to your users, then knowing the packager goes a long way.
[19:10] <stdin> !nixternal
[19:10] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[19:10] <nixternal> combo of nix for unix and nix as in gone, deleted, killed, and ternal from eternal, which means I am gone forever, or even better, unix forever :)
[19:11] <jcastro> Artemis_Fowl: apachelogger: so basically, I was digging that you guys met and just wanted to point that out during this session
[19:11] <limac> dthacker: ha aha ahaha :)
[19:11] <jcastro> because it's important for packagers and upstreams to have a good working relationship
[19:11]  * apachelogger notes that he mailed Artemis_Fowl about some quirks once :P
[19:11] <limac> !ubotu
[19:11] <ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
[19:11] <limac> !HI
[19:11] <ubotu> Hi! Welcome to #kubuntu-devel!
[19:11] <rick_h_> can the OT stuff please go to #kubuntu, it's getting difficult for some to follow the main topic
[19:11] <apachelogger> apparently I have to brand the apachelogger even stronger :P
[19:12] <jcastro> apachelogger: well, in open source things like that tend to happen.
[19:12] <nixternal> rick_h_: thanks for that...I was having a tough time trying to keep up
[19:12] <jcastro> apachelogger: perseverence for the win!
[19:13] <apachelogger> indeed :D
[19:13] <jcastro> So .. as a general note, if there are any upstream KDE folks around
[19:13] <jcastro> and you're interested in getting involved and don't know where to start
[19:13] <jcastro> feel free to abuse me
[19:14] <jcastro> This includes any upstream authors, so if you're not part of KDE officially but have like kMyApp or something that's fine too
[19:14] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: btw, will qaliaseditor also going Kay?
[19:15] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: hell yeah........:-D
[19:15] <apachelogger> Artemis_Fowl: ok, so I don't package it for hardy ;-)
[19:15] <Artemis_Fowl> apachelogger: you're right
[19:16] <apachelogger> nixternal: do you also answer amarok questions?
[19:16] <nixternal> apachelogger: no, you do
[19:16] <nixternal> :)
[19:16] <apachelogger> meh
[19:16] <apachelogger> ha!
[19:16] <apachelogger> Nightrose: can I ask you?
[19:17] <Nightrose> sure ;-)
[19:17] <apachelogger> Nightrose: when is Amarok2 due? :P
[19:17] <Nightrose> ~lart apachelogger
[19:17]  * apachelogger waves
[19:17] <Nightrose> when it´s done hiney
[19:17] <Nightrose> ;-)
[19:17] <Nightrose> *honey
[19:18] <Nightrose> ha apachelogger ypu killed it :P
[19:19] <apachelogger> huh
[19:19] <apachelogger> Nightrose: what?
[19:19] <Riddell> seems like we're done
[19:19] <apachelogger> indeed
[19:19] <Nightrose> apachelogger: the questions
[19:19] <Riddell> thanks everyone for coming to Kubuntu Tutorials Day
[19:19] <DreadKnight> :)
[19:19] <Riddell> I hope we helped to teach something
[19:19] <jcastro> \o/ great success!
[19:20] <Nightrose> \o/
[19:20] <Riddell> this channel is open all year round for developer talk
[19:20] <apachelogger> \o/
[19:20] <DreadKnight> \o/
[19:20] <Riddell> if you want to get into being an elite Kubuntu developer, it's not hard and there's plenty to do
[19:20] <apachelogger> thanks for this fabulous time :D
[19:20] <apachelogger> all praise to kubuntu !
[19:20]  * DreadKnight is looking at kpovmodeler-3.97.0.tar.bz2 
[19:20] <Riddell> if people got lost in any of the previous tutorials do ask for help here
[19:21] <nixternal> groovy, good job everyone!
[19:21] <ricercia> i still cant make a deb!
[19:21] <Riddell> DreadKnight: you can probably use extragear-plasma as a template package to copy
[19:21] <Riddell> DreadKnight: or kdetoys-kde4 maybe
[19:22] <Riddell> ricercia: where did you get to?
[19:22]  * apachelogger actually suggests some partying :P
[19:22] <Riddell> I'm disappointed we didn't get this channel having more people than #ubuntu-devel :)
[19:22] <apachelogger> long tutorial day
[19:22] <Riddell> but we were --> <--- that close!
[19:22] <ricercia> well - i've made all my config files in the debian folder and i've got all my programs installed
[19:22] <nixternal> hehe
[19:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: one day...
[19:23] <Riddell> 4 more people and we'd have done it!
[19:23] <apachelogger> ricercia: paste tha error, please
[19:23] <stdin> at least it was more active than #ubuntu-devel
[19:23] <Nightrose> nahhh Riddell why didn´t you say that - we could have gotten some people here
[19:23] <Nightrose> ;-)
[19:23] <nixternal> Riddell: we are also more than half way to having the same amount of people in here than we do in #kubuntu :)
[19:23] <sigma_kubuntu> Riddell: when do u forsee kde4 being used as the primary desktop in kubuntu?
[19:23] <DreadKnight> ok, who has some "free" time? i really want to package kpovmodeler-3.97.0.tar.bz2 now ;)
[19:23] <ricercia> wel @ the moment i haven't even got the tar/bzip files 'cos i deleted them in frustartion
[19:23] <nixternal> sigma_kubuntu: 8.10
[19:23] <nixternal> hopefully
[19:24] <stdin> if you're very very good
[19:24] <nixternal> by then, we should be looking at KDE 4.1
[19:24] <CheGuevara> DreadKnight, go on then :P
[19:24] <Riddell> sigma_kubuntu: well we should have CDs for hardy, it just won't be recommended for those who want stability
[19:24] <DreadKnight> CheGuevara: need a bit of guidance
[19:24] <CheGuevara> DreadKnight, start off with looking at the extragear-plasma package
[19:24] <CheGuevara> it won't be too close but it'll help
[19:24] <ricercia> ok i've got http://downloads.sourceforge.net/kraft/kraft-0.20.tar.bz2 now wat do i do with it?
[19:25] <apachelogger> bunzip kraft-0.20.tar.bz2
[19:25] <sigma_kubuntu> Riddell: will those cds be available via shipit?
[19:25] <apachelogger> gzip kraft-0.20.tar
[19:25] <Riddell> sigma_kubuntu: no
[19:25] <apachelogger> ricercia: mv kraft-0.20.tar.gz kraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz
[19:26] <ricercia> bunzip not       installed and apt-get doesn't work either
[19:26] <apachelogger> ricercia: sorry, bunzip2
[19:26] <ricercia> oh i figured it out
[19:26] <ricercia> lol
[19:27] <DreadKnight> extragear-plasma-3.97.0 is nothing like in the tutorial xD
[19:27] <apachelogger> lol
[19:28] <apachelogger> DreadKnight: feel free to ask in #ubuntu-motu ;-)
[19:28] <DreadKnight> I r doomed >_<
[19:28] <sigma_kubuntu> Riddell: what easy to use opensource server program can be used as a server for kontact? (For email etc)
[19:29] <apachelogger> kolab
[19:29] <apachelogger> though, that's more like PIM
[19:29] <Riddell> kolab indeed or any imap or pop3 server, the server team would know more
[19:30] <apachelogger> sigma_kubuntu: basically you can use any ;-)
[19:30] <sigma_kubuntu> I found kolab but from what i understood it needs kolab clients 2work not kontact. is that right?
[19:30] <apachelogger> kontact == kolab client
[19:30] <Riddell> kontact is /the/ kol
[19:30] <Riddell> kontact is /the/ kolab client
[19:31] <apachelogger> besides it's also working with any other mail client
[19:31] <apachelogger> kontact is just the most supported one
[19:31] <sigma_kubuntu> who is the server team? do they hav a irc room?
[19:31] <stdin> as a note to you people packaging the extregear package, make sure you have "hardy" in the changelog, not "gutsy"
[19:31] <ricercia> ok i seem 2 be able to bunzip correctly but gzip i'm getting confused
[19:32] <CheGuevara> Riddell, for apps in extragear that got stable alternatives in archives right now should I use a diff package name (like ktorrent4 or smthing)
[19:32] <ricercia> i have the gzip file
[19:32] <dthacker> apachelogger: got a few mins to help with that build tutorial
[19:32] <dthacker> ?
[19:32] <CheGuevara> Riddell, or extragear-ktorrent (duh)
[19:32] <sigma_kubuntu> ah i understand now. il try that out. does kolab just install on kubuntu like any other app?
[19:32] <ricercia> gzip: kraft-0.20.tar: No such file or directory
[19:32] <CheGuevara> stdin, yeah cool
[19:33] <Riddell> CheGuevara: ktorrent-kde4
[19:33] <CheGuevara> kk
[19:33] <Riddell> sigma_kubuntu: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-server
[19:34] <dthacker> here is wherea my files are now.  Still getting can't find source error
[19:34] <dthacker> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2708/
[19:34] <Riddell> sigma_kubuntu: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ServerTeam
[19:35] <Riddell> dthacker: you need to gunzip the .gz
[19:35] <Riddell> dthacker: and mv debian into the directory it makes
[19:35] <ricercia> dthacker luks like he is having a similar problem 2 me
[19:36] <apachelogger> ricercia: what's your problem?
[19:37] <dthacker> Riddell: so 1) unzip source 2) move template directory to debian under the dir the source created, 3) edit files as needed. 4) profit!
[19:37] <Riddell> dthacker: exactly
[19:37] <stdin> ricercia: move kraft-0.20.orig.tar.gz to kraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz (need's an underscore not a dash)
[19:37] <ricercia> i can extract the .gz file
[19:37] <ricercia> gzip: kraft-0.20.tar: No such file or directory is wat i get
[19:37] <dthacker> ok lets give it a shot.
[19:38] <apachelogger> ricercia: when do you get this error?
[19:38] <ricercia> gzip kraft-0.20.tar is wat i type btw
[19:38] <apachelogger> well
[19:38] <apachelogger> ricercia: what are you trying to do anyway? ;-)
[19:38] <ricercia> make the deb file
[19:39] <apachelogger> that is pretty obvious
[19:39] <ricercia> sorry lol
[19:39] <apachelogger> ricercia: bunzip2'ed the bz2?
[19:39] <ricercia> i fink so
[19:39] <apachelogger> hehe
[19:39] <apachelogger> ricercia: run ls
[19:39] <ricercia> ls: debian  kraft-0.20.tar.bz2  kraft-0.20.tar.gz
[19:39] <apachelogger> hm
[19:39] <ricercia> thats wat i've got 4 my files so far
[19:40] <apachelogger> ricercia: remove the .gz
[19:40] <ricercia> kk
[19:40] <apachelogger> bunzip *bz2
[19:40] <apachelogger> bunzip2 *bz2
[19:40] <apachelogger> gzip *tar
[19:40] <apachelogger> mv kraft-0.20.tar.gz kraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz
[19:40] <ricercia> yay i'm getting sumwhere, thanks!
[19:41] <ricercia> do i have to extract the current gz file?
[19:41] <apachelogger> yep
[19:41] <ricercia> kk
[19:42] <apachelogger> then move the debian into the created kraft-0.20
[19:43] <dthacker> do have to copy kraft-0.20.tar into kraft-0.20 before you run debuild?
[19:43] <ricercia> i know this mya sound stupid but i usually use `tar xfv filename` 2 extract gunzips, is there anyfing wring with that?
[19:43] <ricercia> because every1 else uses gzip ?!?
[19:44] <dthacker> must be lunch
[19:45] <apachelogger> dthacker: see what I wrote above
[19:45] <apachelogger> ricercia: nope
[19:45] <ricercia> thanks, sorry 4 being such a newb
[19:46] <ricercia> i just dont want 2 get anyfing wrong again
[19:46] <dthacker> apachelogger: if you are talking about converting the bz2 to a gz. I did that.
[19:46] <apachelogger> ricercia: better to ask such things than to be wrong ;-)
[19:46] <apachelogger> dthacker: so why do you have a kraft-0.20.tar
[19:46] <apachelogger> that should bekraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz
[19:47] <apachelogger> then tar -xf kraft_0.20.orig.tar.gz
[19:47] <apachelogger> move the debian directory in
[19:47] <apachelogger> and you're ready to go
[19:47]  * apachelogger is wondering what happend to jpatrick
[19:48] <Riddell> apachelogger: I sent him an e-mail asking if he was ok
[19:48] <apachelogger> ok
[19:48] <Riddell> he did warn me he might disappear before
[19:48] <ricercia> lataest error from debuild: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2710/ *sigh*
[19:48] <Riddell> thanks for your help during the tutorial
[19:49] <apachelogger> no problem :)
[19:50] <apachelogger> hmm
[19:50] <apachelogger> ricercia: can you please paste your debian/rules
[19:50] <Riddell> wolfger: what's the best time for you?
[19:51] <ricercia> debian/rules : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2711/
[19:51]  * nixternal does some of his merges
[19:52] <apachelogger> very strange
[19:52] <apachelogger> ricercia: also debian/control plz
[19:52] <dthacker> apachelogger: progress! now new error at http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2712/
[19:52] <apachelogger> hrrr
[19:52] <apachelogger> you guys managed to have exactly the same issue :P
[19:53] <dthacker> I didn't copy!  honest!
[19:53] <apachelogger> yeah, I see that :P
[19:53] <ricercia> debian/control : http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2713/
[19:53] <ricercia> lol
[19:53] <apachelogger> dthacker: ricercia: you guys might get one mentor for both of you ;-)
[19:53] <apachelogger> ricercia: Package in the source section missing
[19:53] <ricercia> lol
[19:53] <apachelogger> dthacker: same for you
[19:54] <apachelogger> Package:
[19:54] <apachelogger> Package: kraft
[19:54] <apachelogger> s/source section/binary section
[19:54] <zancdar> kubuntu's tutorial day is finish?
[19:54] <ricercia> OMG it's actually doing somrthing now
[19:54] <apachelogger> zancdar: yes
[19:55] <zancdar> shit
[19:55] <apachelogger> hehe
[19:55] <zancdar> I forget it
[19:55] <zancdar> can I have logs?
[19:55] <apachelogger> irclogs.ubuntu.com
[19:55] <ricercia> i got a deb file yay!
[19:55] <zancdar> thank's a lot
[19:55] <ricercia> cheers, again sorry for being such a newb lol
[19:56] <dthacker> where does that go?  at the top?
[19:56] <apachelogger> dthacker: it's already there
[19:56] <apachelogger> line 10
[19:56] <apachelogger> says Package: {NOTHING}
[19:56] <apachelogger> should actually be Package: kraft
[19:57] <dthacker> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2714/
[19:57] <dthacker> my rules file.
[19:58] <apachelogger> dthacker: the issue is in debian/controls
[19:58] <apachelogger> -s
[19:58] <ricercia> well i installed by deb
[19:58] <dthacker> I thought you said rules.
[19:58]  * apachelogger should get more sleep
[19:58] <ricercia> but i think all it did was install the documentation
[19:58] <apachelogger> dthacker: [20:51] <apachelogger> ricercia: also debian/control plz
[19:58] <apachelogger> ricercia: actually
[19:58] <stdin> take off the '#' on line 5 too
[19:58]  * dthacker has been in irc too long.
[19:58] <apachelogger> I suspect the cdbs file to be useless :P
[19:58]  * CheGuevara is slowly advancing with ktorrent-kde4
[19:59] <apachelogger> yeah
[19:59] <apachelogger> ricercia: uncomment line5
[19:59] <apachelogger> dthacker: same for you
[19:59] <dthacker> in controls?
[19:59] <apachelogger> actually
[19:59] <apachelogger> line4
[19:59] <apachelogger> dthacker: rules
[19:59] <zancdar> When they are talking about makes .deb packages it was very good?
[19:59] <zancdar> And sorry if my english is bad I am french
[19:59] <Riddell> zancdar: it was formidable :)
[20:00] <zancdar> probably I will make .deb packages soon :D
[20:00] <apachelogger> bien sûr :P
[20:00] <dthacker> yay, I'm running configure
[20:00] <ricercia> here's my debian/control file (afterdeleting # @ line 5): http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2715/
[20:00] <apachelogger> zancdar: ping me if you need a review
[20:00]  * apachelogger starts questioning himself
[20:01] <apachelogger> ricercia: you removed the # from rules, right?
[20:01] <CheGuevara> stdin, do you know off the top of your head in which dev package cmake/modules/FindKDE4Internal.cmake is
[20:01] <Riddell> Logs now up at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay
[20:01] <ricercia> no sorry - will do
[20:01] <apachelogger> CheGuevara: I'd say kdelibs5-dev
[20:01] <stdin> kdelibs5-dev
[20:01] <CheGuevara> thx guys
[20:01] <ricercia> just line 4 or line 3 as wel?
[20:01] <apachelogger> only 4
[20:02] <ricercia> kk
[20:02] <apachelogger> dthacker: still building for you?
[20:02] <dthacker> nope pasting error, control and rules.  just a sec
[20:02] <stdin> CheGuevara: kde4 packages should all build-dep on kdelibs5-dev
[20:02] <ricercia> hooray! ./configure is running
[20:03] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think that is the shortest topic of the year ;-)
[20:04] <zancdar> Why 1.3.* wesnoth version's aren't in packages repository?
[20:04] <dthacker> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2716/
[20:04] <CheGuevara> stdin, kk, thx
[20:04] <apachelogger> zancdar: probably no one packaged it
[20:04] <DreadKnight> zancdar: blame it on the lazy motus
[20:04] <zancdar> lazy motus? hum in french :D
[20:05] <apachelogger> jeez
[20:05] <DreadKnight> :D
[20:05] <apachelogger> no more cookies for DreadKnight!
[20:05] <wolfger> Riddell: best time for me? Is that in reference to my question about running tutorials again?
[20:05] <nixternal> Riddell: are you backporting kde4 updates to gutsy or using the kubuntu.org repos? new libsoprano btw...I can package for hardy and upload as I am building a 64bit package for my desktop now so I can update kdelibs
[20:05] <apachelogger> wolfger: yes
[20:06] <Riddell> nixternal: yeah, I should put them in gutsy-backports I suppose, it'll take a week for them to compile though
[20:06] <Riddell> new soprano, groovy
[20:06] <wolfger> Well, I'm in EST, so starting at 2200 UTC or later is good... but with respect to the West Coast, that would still be too early
[20:06] <nixternal> you want me to go ahead and upload the new soprano?
[20:07] <nixternal> Riddell: ^^
[20:07] <apachelogger> zancdar: it appears it got stuck in debian experimental, and we only sync from unstable... so you'll have to wait
[20:07] <dthacker> apachelogger: my latest error, with rules and control http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2716/
[20:07] <txwikinger> sorry to be late
[20:07]  * txwikinger wants to know how he can best put his talents to the good of kubuntu 
[20:07] <apachelogger> dthacker: you don't build-dep on kdelibs4-dev
[20:07] <Riddell> nixternal: sure
[20:07] <DreadKnight> txwikinger: by learning me something
[20:07] <apachelogger> txwikinger: become a coredev :P
[20:08] <txwikinger> DreadKnight: That would be teaching you something :D
[20:08] <apachelogger> right
[20:08] <apachelogger> lazy DreadKnight
[20:08] <DreadKnight> :D
[20:08] <txwikinger> k apachelogger.. I usually always do what you say ;)
[20:08] <CheGuevara> whats the best way to get build/run deps right
[20:08] <ricercia> dthacker: it's a dependency issue, i dont fink there's anyfing wrong with the debian/config files
[20:08] <Riddell> wolfger: there's no right answer to timezones, but we can look at doing it more US friendly if there's a next time
[20:08] <apachelogger> CheGuevara: trial and error
[20:09] <CheGuevara> apachelogger, lol but if you already got loads of -dev packages installed
[20:09] <dthacker> apachelogger: so I need to install more libs?
[20:09] <ricercia> have you got the qt -dev files installed?
[20:09] <apachelogger> CheGuevara: in a chroot
[20:09] <zancdar> thank's apachelogger i am building last version myself
[20:09] <wolfger> Riddell: appreciate it. Fortunately, I had a vacation day to burn before the end of the year :-)
[20:09] <apachelogger> CheGuevara: I usually do it in pbuilder, takes longer for a lot of deps but one can mostly use that time to get debian/copyright right
[20:09] <apachelogger> copyright right, wtf -.-
[20:10] <wolfger> I've missed so many other Packaging 101's due to time zone issues...
[20:10] <CheGuevara> lol
[20:10] <apachelogger> wolfger: you probably should move then :P
[20:10] <mikkael> if i view some ppa's at launchpad, here for example htt
[20:10] <wolfger> lol
[20:10]  * CheGuevara goes to read about pubuilder
[20:11] <wolfger> pubuilder: the stinky version of pbuilder?
[20:11] <apachelogger> lol
[20:11] <mikkael> https://launchpad.net/~notz/+archive, are those gutsy or hardy packages ? sources.list entry says hardy, series says gutsy..
[20:12] <apachelogger> gutsy
[20:12] <apachelogger> you will have to change the sources.list entry
[20:13]  * dthacker installs kdelibs4-dev
[20:13] <DreadKnight> this is the "right" trunk? https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members-kde4/+archive
[20:13] <CheGuevara> apachelogger, basically create the chroot and use pdebuild instead of debuild?
[20:13] <apachelogger> sudo pbuilder create
[20:13] <apachelogger> you might want to activate universe and multiverse in /etc/pbuilderrc first though
[20:14] <ricercia> thanks apachelogger - i got a .deb file that works and i installed it too and that works as well
[20:14] <apachelogger> CheGuevara: then you can just do `sudo pbuilder build ../*dsc` or something
[20:14] <apachelogger> first you'll need to run debuild -S -sa though
[20:14] <apachelogger> or debuild -S -sa -us -uc
[20:14] <apachelogger> latter will not sign the files
[20:14] <apachelogger> ricercia: gratulations :)
[20:14] <CheGuevara> apachelogger, i already set it to do create, is it ok to activate universe/multiverse later?
[20:15] <CheGuevara> apachelogger, what about just using "pdebuild"
[20:15] <apachelogger> hm
[20:15] <dthacker> I'm compiling, fingers crossed
[20:15] <apachelogger> CheGuevara: oh, that's possible as well ;-)
[20:15]  * apachelogger is wondering about later activating universe and multiverse
[20:15] <stdin> you can always "sudo pbuilder --login --save-after-login" and add the repos then do "apt-get update" ;)
[20:16] <CheGuevara> :P
[20:18] <CheGuevara> how do i get a secret key?
[20:18] <mihas> i followed to http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/kubuntu-pkg-talk
[20:18] <mihas> but debuild makes error
[20:19] <mihas> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2717/
[20:19] <CheGuevara> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[20:19] <CheGuevara>   aptitude: Depends: libapt-pkg-libc6.6-6-4.5 but it is not installable
[20:19] <CheGuevara> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
[20:19] <CheGuevara> perfect timing lol
[20:20] <mihas> i typed only ---> debuild -S -sa
[20:20] <mihas> because gpg does't works
[20:20] <dthacker> I failed debsign.  what keys do I need to gen?
[20:20] <CheGuevara> yeah whats what we all want to know :P
[20:21] <CheGuevara> apachelogger, stdin ?
[20:21] <stdin> !gpg
[20:21] <ubotu> gpg is the GNU Privacy Guard.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto and class #8 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts
[20:21] <stdin> that guide tells you how
[20:22] <dthacker> will this invalidate my ubuntero signature?
[20:22] <CheGuevara> thx
[20:22] <stdin> if you've signed the CoC then you have a key :)
[20:22] <dthacker> then I re-installed
[20:23] <stdin> so you don't have the private key?
[20:23] <dthacker> "don't tell anyone, but I was running some other distro when I signed up"
[20:23] <stdin> just deactivate the key on launchpad, make a new one and resign the CoC
[20:24] <dthacker> don't see it in .ssh
[20:24] <stdin> it'll be ~/.gnupg
[20:24] <stdin> not ~/.ssh
[20:26] <stdin> you should probably also set DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME if you want to use debuild to sign stuff. I have them set in my ~/.bashrc
[20:26] <stdin> export DEBEMAIL="you@email.www"
[20:26] <stdin> export DEBFULLNAME"Your Name"
[20:27] <stdin> erm. actually, export DEBEMAIL="you@email.www"
[20:27] <stdin> export DEBFULLNAME="Your Name"
[20:28] <fdoving> stupid new flashplayer doesn't work with konq.
[20:28] <CheGuevara> and GPGKEY right stdin
[20:28] <stdin> yep, that too
[20:29] <Riddell> fdoving: there's patches if you want to test them
[20:30] <limac> are the bugs in ubuntu and kubuntu the same thing?
[20:30] <fdoving> Riddell: yes please.
[20:31] <dthacker> stdin. ok will do
[20:31] <Riddell> fdoving: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=348088
[20:31] <ubotu> Novell bug 348088 in KDE "Support for latest Flash plugin" [Major,New]
[20:32] <Riddell> limac: yes, we're part of ubuntu
[20:32] <fdoving> Riddell: thanks, did you get my message about the broken KURL-patch?
[20:32] <limac> thx
[20:33] <fdoving> Riddell: in any case, here it is again: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdelibs/+bug/162233 - debdiff for gutsy. broken KURL-things. kdebug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=150973 - it is reverted in kdesvn, not sure if it affect hardy or not, (don't have it anywhere).
[20:33] <ubotu> KDE bug 150973 in general "kurl prettyUrl corrupts original url" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[20:36] <Riddell> fdoving: ok, I'll take a look at that
[20:36] <fdoving> Riddell: thanks.
[20:42] <CheGuevara> apachelogger, which way do u prefer for me to get u packages to review?
[20:43] <jpatrick> CheGuevara: upload them to REVU
[20:43] <CheGuevara> aight
[20:43] <jpatrick> !revu
[20:43] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[20:44] <CheGuevara> just that apachelogger volunteered to review, thought i'd ask him :P
[20:45] <apachelogger> oh
[20:45] <apachelogger> wb jpatrick :)
[20:45] <jpatrick> hi apachelogger
[20:45] <jpatrick> got booted off my net, again..
[20:46] <apachelogger> jpatrick: well, Riddell managed to do the tutorial without :P
[20:47] <jpatrick> apachelogger: he had my notes :p
[20:47] <apachelogger> jpatrick: he was probably better anyway :-P
[20:47] <jpatrick> yeah
[20:47] <CheGuevara> :P
[20:48] <nixternal> alrighty...no buntu hardy buildin' for a bit...broken main right now
[20:49] <apachelogger> lol
[20:49] <apachelogger> nixternal: good job :P
[20:49] <nixternal> hehe
[20:49] <nixternal> hopefully pdfedit made it through w/o any probs..but I think I will need a give back on that one so I can rebuild and upload later
[20:51] <stdin> so is hal still broken?
[20:53] <txwikinger> nixternal: I tried it a couple of month ago and it worked ok for me
[20:53] <CheGuevara> yeah aptitue is b0rked
[20:53] <nixternal> yup
[20:55] <CheGuevara> w00t now got an gpg key in launchpad :P
[20:56] <CheGuevara> jpatrick, can u resync the uploaders keyring thing
[20:57] <jpatrick> CheGuevara: sorry, not an admin, try asking on #-motu
[20:57] <CheGuevara> oh sorry
[20:58] <stdin> CheGuevara: that #ubuntu-motu
[20:58] <CheGuevara> yeah
[21:01] <CheGuevara> Your GPG key needs to have an Elgamal secondary key in order to allow encrypting data as well as signing it. If you don't create an Elgamal key, you will be able to upload to REVU but not to recover your password, and hence, to login on the web interface.
[21:01] <CheGuevara> can someone hint how to create one of these
[21:01] <CheGuevara> can't find any info on the wiki
[21:02] <ScottK> CheGuevara: Odds are you did if you don't know.
[21:02] <stdin> the default is to create one
[21:02] <CheGuevara> oh
[21:03] <CheGuevara> think i am all set then
[21:04] <Tm_T> hi kids
[21:05] <stdin> ooh, new cloak :)
[21:06] <Tm_T> ?
[21:06] <stdin> your cloak
[21:06] <Tm_T> aa, yes, thanks :)
[21:06] <CheGuevara> going up
[21:07] <CheGuevara> evening Tm_T
[21:07] <CheGuevara> Successfully uploaded packages
[21:09] <CheGuevara> ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming/
[21:09] <CheGuevara> w00t :P
[21:10] <CheGuevara> are they gonna get moved from incoming in a bit?
[21:10] <stdin> it's a "virtual directory"
[21:11] <stdin> automagically moves it
[21:12] <CheGuevara> oh kk
[21:12] <dthacker> argh: no writable public keyring found
[21:13] <CheGuevara> dthacker, what are you trying to do
[21:13] <dthacker> generate new key.  debuild can't find mine
[21:14] <CheGuevara> did u follow https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[21:14] <jpatrick> dthacker: did you add the "-kKEYID" flag?
[21:16] <dthacker> jpatrick: don't remember that.  CheGuevara: I am issuing gpg --gen-key
[21:16] <jpatrick> CheGuevara: your ktorrent-kde4 upload is out of the ftp and not on revu :( You'll have to wait till midnight when the keys are automagically synced
[21:16] <CheGuevara> hmm that worked fine for me
[21:17] <dthacker> gpg: no writable public keyring found: eof
[21:17] <dthacker>  
[21:17] <CheGuevara> dthacker,
[21:17] <CheGuevara> check perms on .gnupg
[21:17] <dthacker> 700
[21:18] <CheGuevara> drwx------  3 cheguevara cheguevara
[21:18] <dthacker> drwx------  2 dthacker dthacker      4096 2007-12-13 15:12 .gnupg
[21:19] <CheGuevara> yeah that looks right
[21:19] <dthacker> maybe there are old files I don't own in the dir. hang on....
[21:20] <CheGuevara> 'cause from what i see that error comes up when somethign is up with permissions
[21:20] <dthacker> root owned them, no idea why.
[21:20] <CheGuevara> heh
[21:20] <CheGuevara> ok stuff is gone from incoming but its not showing up on revu main page
[21:21] <CheGuevara> oh didn't see what jpatrick said sorry
[21:21] <CheGuevara> jpatrick, middnight GMT ?
[21:21] <jpatrick> CheGuevara: think so
[21:21] <CheGuevara> not too bad 2 and a half hours :P
[21:22] <CheGuevara> jpatrick, will it then appear on revu or i'll have to re upload?
[21:22] <CheGuevara> apachelogger or stdin do you guys wanna take a look at it for now?
[21:23] <jpatrick> CheGuevara: reupload
[21:23] <CheGuevara> kk
[21:32] <iRon> Guys, i've missed ending of today's tutorial.. I've a good knowledge in Unix/C/C++/ObjC.. How could I help Kubuntu project?
[21:36] <jpatrick> iRon: logs are at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay/
[21:37] <Riddell> hi iRon, do hang around
[21:38] <Tm_T> Riddell: what's our opinion currently about kickoff?
[21:38] <iRon> jpatrick: No logs for "Kubuntu and KDE Q&A"
[21:38] <Riddell> if you want to jump in at the deep end we need someone to work on "User Hard Disk Mounting"
[21:39] <iRon> Riddell: is there any spec/functional reqs for this?
[21:39] <Riddell> iRon: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuHardyCatchup
[21:39] <Riddell> second last one
[21:39] <Riddell> it would mean working on kdebase's medio ioslave
[21:40] <skraelings> can we expect to c another tutorial day in near future? i missed it cause i had exams at univ.
[21:40] <nixternal> skraelings: I would have to say yes after seeing the buzz
[21:41] <apachelogger> +1
[21:41] <Riddell> iRon: it's probably not a lot of code needed, the hard part would be finding where to do it in kdebase and the exact dbus-send items to use
[21:41] <Riddell> skraelings: it did seem to go well
[21:41] <Riddell> I'd worry about duplication in another one, we'd need to come up with some fresh ideas
[21:41] <Riddell> partly fresh anyway
[21:41] <skraelings> Riddell, nixternal: yes, i see..i'm checking the logs right now
[21:41] <iRon> Riddell: so, first i need to get kde 3 sources and digg them? :)
[21:41] <CheGuevara> apachelogger, can i pm
[21:42] <Riddell> iRon: apt-get source kdebase
[21:42] <apachelogger> pm ftw!
[21:42] <apachelogger> whatever it may be :P
[21:42] <Riddell> iRon: you may also want to look at gnome-mount and find the patch for it in there
[21:42] <iRon> Riddell: sure
[21:43] <jpatrick> iRon: make sure you fetch the src packages from hardy :)
[21:44] <iRon> jpatrick: so, i need to update my system to hardy too?
[21:44] <iRon> jpatrick: i'm on gutsy now
[21:44] <jpatrick> iRon: no, just change the deb-src lines in /etc/apt/sources.list to hardy
[21:45] <iRon> jpatrick: ok
[21:49] <iRon> Riddell: does it mean, that we also need some gui to let user select which disk to mount?
[21:51] <CheGuevara> right click - mount?
[21:51] <santiago-ve> Hello guys.... I know the Tutorial day its over (Well the time that was set for it) but does someone has the logs?... im very interested in joining the kubuntu-devel team
[21:51] <CheGuevara> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuTutorialsDay/
[21:52] <santiago-ve> CheGuevara, thanks alot
[21:52] <CheGuevara> np
[21:56] <iRon> CheGuevara: to do "right click" -- device must appear first somewhere..
[21:56] <jpatrick> iRon: in media:/
[21:56] <iRon> jpatrick: oh, thanks :)
 could someone give me a lead here? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2719/
[21:58] <dthacker> I generated a new key.
[22:00] <jpatrick> dthacker: does it list the key in `gpg --list-keys
[22:00] <dthacker> jpatrick: yes
[22:00] <dthacker> do I need to run dbuild from sudo?
[22:00] <jpatrick> no, you shouldn't have to
[22:01] <jpatrick> prehaps making the key from kgpg might help?
[22:06] <Niah> awwww, now i know whats UTC mean, in "15:00 UTC"... been waiting for about 3 hours now, to find out that i didnt figure the right time zone...:-(
[22:06] <jpatrick> Niah: fear not, you can still read the logs
[22:07] <Niah> yeah, fortunately:)
[22:07] <Niah> thx for pasting the link
[22:07] <Niah> ( CheGuevara, that is)
[22:08] <Riddell> santiago-ve, Niah: let us know if you have any questions
[22:08] <Riddell> although I'm pretty tired after all that, should be off to bed soon :)
[22:08] <dthacker> Riddell: if I can't get this key problem with debuild resolved, where is a good mailing list to post the question to?
[22:09] <Riddell> dthacker: key problem?
[22:09] <CheGuevara> Riddell, as noted by apachelogger ktorrent 3.97.0 is missing a copy of GPL in its .tar.bz2, which is not exactly right
[22:09] <dthacker> debsign complains bitterly at the end of my build
[22:09] <Riddell> dthacker: zip up what you have and put it on a web server so we can get if you want
[22:09] <jpatrick> Riddell: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2719/
[22:09] <dthacker> Riddell: it's just trying to get the tutorial to work
[22:09] <Riddell> CheGuevara: try /msg'ing toma about it
[22:10] <santiago-ve> Well im picking up some material to read while traveling on bus (Going to leave on saturday...) so... ill come with lots of question by monday :D, Thanks Riddell
[22:10] <Riddell> dthacker: do you have a gpg key with that e-mail address?
[22:10] <CheGuevara> kk Riddell
[22:11] <xRaich[o]2x> is there a good C++ tutorial for kde4?
[22:13] <dthacker> Riddell: no but I changed it to match and I'm still borked. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2722/
[22:13] <Riddell> xRaich[o]2x: http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials
[22:13] <xRaich[o]2x> thanks a bunch :)
[22:14] <Riddell> dthacker: what does gpg --list-key dthacker9@cox.net show ?
[22:15] <dthacker> Riddell: it shows a key with that UID, do you need it pasted?
[22:16] <Riddell> dthacker: but you must not have the secret key
[22:16] <Riddell> paste would be useful
[22:16] <CheGuevara> Riddell, http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-commits&m=119758410515183&w=2
[22:17] <CheGuevara> question is, what about the existing tarball?
[22:17] <Riddell> dthacker: infact --list-secret-key
[22:17] <dthacker> Riddell: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2723/
[22:17] <Riddell> CheGuevara: you can just add it to the .orig now, since it's in upstream
[22:18] <junior> many thanks to all kubuntu devels for this great tutorial day!
[22:18] <CheGuevara> cool Riddell
[22:18] <junior> it was really really nice... all the best!
[22:18] <dthacker> Riddell: same output for --list-secret-key
[22:21] <Riddell> dthacker: can you run gpg --clearsign foo
[22:21] <Riddell> where foo is a file
[22:22] <Niah> wow, read the log... and i'm doing some gui in java with awt and swing. Can't wait to try those qt pyton lib. Seems very very intuitive and faster.
[22:23] <dthacker> Riddell: it worked after I gave it my password
[22:23] <apachelogger> CheGuevara: btw, please add a note to changelog, that you edited the tarball since upstream included a gpl copy as well
[22:23] <dthacker> but it's complaining about gpg-agent not running
[22:24] <blueyed> What's the best way to check if "dcop kdesktop KScreensaverIface lock" should get called for KDE/Kubuntu? (in /usr/share/acpi-support/screenblank)
[22:25] <CheGuevara> apachelogger, note
[22:25] <blueyed> checking for "pidof dcopserver"?
[22:25] <Riddell> dthacker: can you run debsign foo.changes ?
[22:26] <Riddell> blueyed: if ps shows kdesktop is running?
[22:26] <CheGuevara> apachelogger, should i do it as ubuntu2 now or just keep it at ubuntu1 since it never got published anywhere
[22:26] <Riddell> blueyed: see policy-funcs for a use of dcop in that directory
[22:26] <blueyed> Riddell: so "pidof dcopserver"? (seems better than ps and grep)
[22:26] <Riddell> blueyed: yes
[22:27] <dthacker> Riddell: malformed user id! hmmm
[22:27] <jpatrick> CheGuevara: keep as is
[22:27] <CheGuevara> kthx
[22:27] <jpatrick> dthacker: are you using the key from the line: pub: in --list.keys?
[22:29] <dthacker> jpatrick: I am using the 8 chars after the slash in that line as my env variable GPGKEY
[22:29] <Riddell> dthacker: pastebin us  gpg --list-secret-key "Dave Thacker <dthacker9@cox.net>"
[22:30] <Riddell> and unset GPGKEY
[22:31] <dthacker> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2724/
[22:32] <Riddell> dthacker: it needs to match exactly
[22:32] <dthacker> typo
[22:32] <dthacker> ?
[22:32] <Riddell> that "(Home PC)" isn't there
[22:32] <Riddell> try debuild -S -k(Home PC)
[22:32] <Riddell> mm,no
[22:32] <Riddell> debuild -S -kdthacker9@cox.net
[22:34] <amason> Riddell: is the qtdesigner the preferred way to build GUI's? Are they more maintainable that way? Is it feasable to make the .ui files by hand ?
[22:34] <dthacker> Riddell: (HomePC) was the comment from creating the key.  I have to leave now.  I will regen without the comment.
[22:35] <Riddell> amason: yes, not using designer makes thing much harder to maintain
[22:35] <Riddell> there's no need to make .ui files by hand
[22:35] <dthacker> thanks for your help and the tutorials.  I will follow up tomorrow if I still have problems.  bye!
[22:36] <Riddell> you can code the GUI in python or c++ manually with QGridLayout and all the QWidgets
[22:36] <Riddell> but there's no point usually
[22:36] <Riddell> dthacker: night
[22:36] <amason> Riddell: ok. It' just that my interest is in the qt jambi area. However it uses this crapy eclipse version of the designer which barely runs
[22:36] <amason> with out crashing
[22:37] <amason> the fact that i can't  stand eclipse also doesn't help
[22:37] <amason> =) the normal qt designer app seems fine
[22:37] <Riddell> amason: I'm pretty sure you can use the normal qt designer for jambi
[22:38] <amason> hmm doesn't seem to like the ui files
[22:38] <Riddell> there's probably a jambi uic to compile the .ui files to java
[22:38] <amason> Riddell: yeh there is but it also suffers from the same fate that eclipse does.....doesn't run reliably etc...
[22:39] <amason> i guess i could use xslt
[22:39] <amason> Riddell: thanks for your help.
[22:39] <Riddell> amason: nixternal has been known to use jambi
[22:40] <Riddell> I've not used it much
[22:41] <amason> Riddell: yeh i'd like to go the C++ route but i've spent so long in java land that the thought of spending 3 years getting to know C++ well enough that i can write something i'm happy with is quite a large mental barrier. =)
[22:42] <Riddell> amason: c++ is just a most complex and lower level java, it wouldn't take that long to convert
[22:42] <Riddell> s/most/more/
[22:43] <Niah> just have to take care of memory, oh and you can redefine operator. Thats it i guess.
[22:44] <amason> c++ does the whole multiple inheritance rather than using interfaces no ?
[22:45] <Niah> yes, you can do multiple inheritance
[22:45] <Tm_T> moooh
[22:45] <amason> maybe i should stoping sucking and take a few weeks holiday to try and learn :)
[22:46] <Niah> well, I think you can learn it very fast, maybe in 1, 2 day, considering you are already good in java
[22:47] <elisiano> well it's different when someone knows C++ and learns Java than viceversa
[22:48] <elisiano> amason: http://www.mindview.net/Books
[22:48] <amason> really ? i've never actually had to deal with real memory. It's all just references in java.  Don't have to worry about have a signed/ unsigned int's etc.. just seems alot more potential to mess up
[22:48] <elisiano> the author wrote Thinking in Java and Thinking in C++
[22:48] <elisiano> free ebooks
[22:49] <amason> hmm
[22:49] <amason> awesome will give it a read
[22:51] <amason> might get the dead tree version
[22:52] <Niah> [23:47:47] <elisiano> well it's different when someone knows C++ and learns Java than viceversa
[22:52] <Niah> I guess you are right on this one
[22:52] <elisiano> bye guys, c ya
[22:52] <Niah> Bye.
[22:53] <Niah> going to bed, thanks for everything:) gn8
[22:53] <nixternal> ya, going from java to c++ is definitely different
[22:53]  * jpatrick prefers c++
[22:53] <nixternal> I just spent the last year doing it
[22:53] <santiago-ve> <.< i prefer PHP :) and python :D
[22:53] <nixternal> it depends on what I am writing with regards to language preference
[22:54] <nixternal> most of my work is mobile in nature, so java is the way to go
[22:54] <CheGuevara> finally a php coder :P
[22:55] <santiago-ve> :) soon a phpQT coder too
[22:55] <CheGuevara> phpqt development seems a bit dead
[22:55] <santiago-ve> a bit?... i'd say somewat alot :/
[22:55] <amason> so has the bzr tutorial been and gone ?
[22:55] <CheGuevara> amason, yep
[22:56] <nixternal> soprano uploaded
[22:56] <nixternal> and kdelibs now compiling once again...woohoo
[22:58] <nixternal> vorian: ^^
[22:59] <vorian> \o/
[22:59] <jpatrick> apachelogger: do you plan to update tastymenu?
[22:59] <nixternal> vorian: you still need it right?
[22:59] <apachelogger> jpatrick: oh yeah, on my todo, which is fairly long :P
[22:59] <vorian> nixternal, yeah! and I just got home :)
[22:59] <nixternal> vorian: hardy?
[22:59] <vorian> perfect timing
[22:59] <vorian> aye
[22:59] <nixternal> amd64?
[22:59] <vorian> (and foresight... shhhh)
[22:59] <jpatrick> apachelogger: ah well, I'll leave you to it :)
[22:59] <nixternal> lol
[23:00] <vorian> nope just 386
[23:00] <apachelogger> jpatrick: :P
[23:00] <nixternal> k
[23:00] <apachelogger> right, leave me alone with all the work
[23:00] <CheGuevara> does anyone know how to make ubuntu use the new dns servers after changing /etc/resolv.conf
[23:00] <vorian> i am a little upset i missed all the schooling today :(
[23:01] <nixternal> vorian: http://www.nixternal.com/tmp
[23:02] <nixternal> forgot I built x86 as well
[23:02] <vorian> damn that was quick :)
[23:02] <nixternal> no messin' around here
[23:02] <apachelogger> -.-
[23:03] <vorian> :)
[23:03]  * Riddell snoozes
[23:03] <nixternal> coming up to the 27% mark
[23:04] <vorian> nixternal,  on kdelibs?
[23:04] <nixternal> ya
[23:04] <nixternal> hehe
[23:04] <nixternal> that is where it was crashing out
[23:04] <nixternal> after my original soprano upload
[23:04] <nixternal> forgot to add 2 new files
[23:04] <nixternal> ok, I am good...it is flying by
[23:06] <vorian> w00t
[23:11] <nixternal> vorian: I take it that worked for ya :)
[23:11] <vorian> yeah
[23:11] <vorian> :)
[23:12] <vorian> thanks for saving me about 15 minutes of my night :)
[23:13] <nixternal> hehe, no problem
[23:14] <nixternal> I am just now recompiling everything from scratch on a headless box that I am switching over to full time
[23:14] <nixternal> that means no more kde 3.5.x for me :)
[23:14] <vorian> wow
[23:14] <nixternal> I have only been using 3.5.x for email
[23:14] <apachelogger> screw kde 3.5
[23:14] <vorian> hehe
[23:15]  * apachelogger is using kde4 all over the place for almost a month now
[23:15] <nixternal> but it seems that kmail in kde 4 is just as stable and crappy as kde 3.5.x kmail :p
[23:15] <apachelogger> nixternal: well, it's a straight forward port
[23:15] <nixternal> go figure
[23:15] <nixternal> I thought there were some changes to it at least
[23:15] <hads> Not till later isn't it.
[23:15] <apachelogger> I didn't spot one ;-)
[23:16] <apachelogger> oh right, the toolbar is different
[23:16] <hads> KMail eats my mail on a semi-regular basis but I still like it.
[23:16] <apachelogger> lol
[23:16] <nixternal> kmail is great for pop3, but I would love to go back to IMAP eventually
[23:17] <nixternal> and I don't feel like going back and relearning, or knocking the rust off, of mutt
[23:17]  * apachelogger isn't a lot into offline mail clients anyway
[23:17] <apachelogger> hmmm
[23:17] <apachelogger> isn't mutt-ng developed by a wicked minded austrian? :P
[23:17] <apachelogger> I mean, even more wicked minded than me...
[23:18] <nixternal> apachelogger: actually, I have gotten so used to just using my lappy for everything and pop3 for the past couple of years, that I am pretty much the same way now
[23:18] <Nightrose> one like you :P
[23:18] <Nightrose> ?
[23:18] <coreymon77> hey everyone
[23:18] <coreymon77> sorry i couldnt make it to that meeting yesterday, what was it about?
[23:18] <apachelogger> oh indeed
[23:18] <apachelogger> what was the meeting about?
[23:18] <apachelogger> and why didn't I receive a pre-notification?
[23:20] <PasteL> have anyone managed to install shockwave direcotr in to firefox or opera?
[23:25] <nixternal> there wasn't a meeting today, it was Kubunt Days, and offshoot of OpenWeek
[23:25] <coreymon77> nixternal: yesterday
[23:25] <elisiano> is it ok when installing kde4 that kdebase-bin-kde3 is being removed?
[23:25] <nixternal> I think we just inducted 2 new members since nobody really showed up
[23:25] <nixternal> plus fabbione has the irc logs if you want to read them
[23:25] <nixternal> !logs
[23:25] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
[23:29] <cheguevara_> god making debian/copyright is the most boring thing ever :P
[23:30] <elisiano> lol
[23:31] <CheGuevara> Riddell, one of the upstream files in ktorrent is missing the copyright header completely, thats not right is it?
[23:35] <PasteL> have anyone managed to install shockwave direcotr in to firefox or opera?
[23:37] <jembouge> PasteL: nope, and I'd be interested in it too... for work
[23:39] <elisiano> omg kde4 is awesome
[23:40] <stdin> PasteL: #kubuntu for support (and there is no shockwave for linux)
[23:40] <CheGuevara> i think adept needs a rebuild for new apt
[23:43] <PasteL> stdin: i ask in #kubuntu, but not sucess :/
[23:44] <stdin> well this isn't a support channel, there is #ubuntu as well
[23:45] <PasteL> hm.. ok, thanks stdin
[23:46] <elisiano> ok this may be a stupid question, but I couldn't find a way to solve it... I have a dual monitor set up, and thoug my main screen is the one on the right (screen 0) the bottom kde panel stays on the eft
[23:46] <elisiano> how can I move it?
[23:47] <amason>  elisiano drag it
[23:47] <elisiano> I wish it was that esy :D
[23:47] <elisiano> easy*
[23:47] <amason> erm..should be
[23:47] <amason> works for me
[23:47] <elisiano> not for me :/
[23:47] <amason> are your panels locked ?
[23:47] <elisiano> with bottom panel I mean the main one
[23:47] <elisiano> the one with the K menu
[23:48] <amason> yeh
[23:48] <amason> is it locked ?
[23:48] <amason> if so you wont be able to move it
[23:48] <elisiano> how can I check that? if I right click it nothing happens
[23:48] <amason> right click on it
[23:48] <amason> erm.. where are you clicking ?
[23:48] <amason> try and find a free spot on the panel
[23:48] <amason> right click there
[23:49] <elisiano> everywhere! :)
[23:49] <amason> you should see either an unlock or a lock
[23:49] <elisiano> no menu pops up
[23:49] <amason> elisiano: then you have other problems :)
[23:49] <amason> to which i don't know the answer
[23:49] <elisiano> lol it's a fresh install
[23:49] <amason> well i also have a fresh install here
[23:49] <elisiano> (kde4 fresh install)
[23:49] <amason> ah
[23:49] <amason> kde4
[23:50] <amason> thats different
[23:50] <amason> no idea sorry
[23:50] <amason> it may not be able to do that
[23:50] <amason> yet
[23:50] <elisiano> nice! :)
[23:53] <elisiano> and I notice that the sound is not working... is there a known issues page?
[23:54] <amason> elisiano: kde 4 isn't even released yet
[23:54] <elisiano> lol, you're right
[23:54] <amason> its due out jan 11
[23:54] <elisiano> really?
[23:54] <elisiano> not even that far
[23:54] <amason> and half the apps haven't been brought in yet
[23:55] <elisiano> ok I think I'll go back in kde3 next time
[23:55] <amason> not sure how much you know but 4.0 isn't supposed to be feature comparable to 3.x just yet
[23:56] <elisiano> don't know much
[23:56] <amason> depends what you do but for most people 4.1 will be the release that they start using it
[23:56] <amason> in production
[23:56] <elisiano> that makes me laugh :D "production"
[23:56] <amason> why is that ?
[23:57] <elisiano> who uses graphical interface "in production"? :)
[23:57] <amason> well ....me :)
[23:57] <elisiano> really?
[23:57] <elisiano> how come?
[23:57] <amason> yeh i use kde 3 every day for work
[23:57] <amason> if it's not stable
[23:57] <amason> i'm screwed
[23:58] <amason> so i'll use 4.0 at home
[23:58] <elisiano> ou yeah "that production"... when speaking of production I mean server side
[23:58] <amason> production is a production environment
[23:58] <amason> what ever your producing determines your production environment
[23:58] <amason> for me it's applications
[23:58] <amason> so this is my production environment