[00:02] if debian broke their own policy and we merge, i wont fix it [00:02] others might :) [00:02] merge/sync [00:03] unless its something horrible in which case the merge/sync probably would not be done [00:04] heh, Riddell's bzr 101 is pretty interesting reading :-) [00:05] z,cb 5 [00:05] Oops. [00:05] Fujitsu: oh really? [00:05] was that trying to be vim? === ember_ is now known as ember [00:06] No, that was forgetting that I'm on a machine where my keyboard layout is Dvorak. [00:06] heh [00:07] so /win 5 ? [00:07] Yes. [00:08] * xstasi is away: Dangerous like a razorback - Deadly like a heart attack [00:08] xstasi: Please turn off that away message. === xstasi is now known as xstasi`afk [00:08] Fujitsu, sorry, it was automatic, i'll remember it [00:34] how can i update shlibs with new symbols? [00:43] Heya gang [00:43] Hi bddebian. [00:44] Heya Fujitsu [00:56] 'night === doko_ is now known as doko [01:06] ember: Please follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures when preparing security updates. [01:08] I note that you made a number of inappropriate changes, and that the changelog is incorrectly formatted. [01:09] yay for me...somehow I mucked up a tarball [01:10] nixternal: What gives you that idea? [01:10] archive spit it back at me calling me an idiot for not catching it [01:10] Ah. [01:20] Fujitsu: thanks for the info, fixing. [01:28] ember: Thanks. [01:32] evening [01:33] Neighvening. === Nightrose_ is now known as Nightrose [01:34] GoldenPony: heh [01:34] * StevenK chuckles [01:34] Doe anybody happen to know whether there is PulseAudio v0.9.8 built against gutsy in someone's PPA? [01:36] TheMuso: theres a search engine somewhere [01:36] pwnguin: Hrm ok. I wasn't aware of that. [01:36] or maybe just google with site:ppa.launchapd.net [01:37] TheMuso: I can never find the engine, and its not very good [01:37] im searching for packages, not repos =/ [01:37] right [01:37] but maybe google has crawled it [01:38] From doing a google search like that, I don't get anything other than a referenc to pulse in a package thats in my PPA. [01:38] heh [01:38] doh [01:38] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas [01:38] Oh well, no big problem. I just thought someone may have had it. I'll just upload hardy's pulse to my ppa for gutsy and see what happens. [01:39] fun times [01:39] ive never had that not work, but i'd hate to see what can go wrong [01:39] Anyway, I'll find out soon enough. [01:39] TheMuso: if you use the pulse alsa-lib plugin, you'll need to build hardy's alsa-plugins source, too. [01:40] crimsun: Thanks for the heads up, but at this point, I don't think I'll need that. [01:40] I am setting up packages for users on gutsy to test accessibility stuff for hardy, without them having to run hardy. [01:41] understood. Alpha 2 desktop CD might be a better go. [01:41] is it alpha 2 already? [01:41] Yeah. [01:41] A week. [01:41] Almost [01:41] yeah, testing is always a pain that way [01:42] man, i dont even have a new kernel yet =/ [01:42] TheMuso: Are you working to get speech-dispatcher working through pulse? [01:42] the people who you want to have testing your stuff are the people who don't want to use development code [01:42] LaserJock: Yep, and one can understand why they don't. [01:42] LaserJock: well, Ubuntu's policies are pretty much "don't bother" [01:42] yeah [01:42] And they don't often have a box that they can easily set up for testing dev stuff either. [01:43] pwnguin: "don't bother"? [01:43] LaserJock: Added to that, with accessibility fluctuating during the early stages of a dev release, theres no garentee they'll be able to recover from problems, since they can't see what they are doing. [01:43] LaserJock: as in "dont use it unless you can recover from massive breakage" [01:43] for blind people that is [01:43] I'm lucky in that regard. [01:44] TheMuso: very true, that's a good point [01:44] the current topic for #ubuntu+1 [01:44] pwnguin: well, it's pragmatic, not policy [01:44] "The home of Hardy Heron and various breakage" [01:45] pwnguin: It's a matter that if it breaks, nobody promises to help you fix it, and if you can't tell what went wrong, even more so. [01:45] I think in the end, usability testing just needs an office and testers =( [01:45] it's not "our policy is to not let users test stuff", but rather "look, things are gonna break while we're developing" [01:45] And hell, most of us don't even run dev releases, except on throw around boxes. [01:46] I certainly don't. [01:46] I only have chroots at the moment [01:46] TheMuso: Many developers seem to be on the dev release by Feature Freeze (although, yes, not all) [01:46] persia: I am usually around FF, but not always. [01:47] But having several boxes that I can install the dev release on, allows me to do real world testing without sacrificing data. [01:47] and being able to actually do stuff. [01:48] but it's certainly a hole in the process. user files bug against stable version, dev applies patch and asks if it's fixed in dev version [01:48] pwnguin: See the spec about bugfix verification [01:48] well huzzah [02:08] * emgent hi === zen-afk is now known as zenrox [02:34] hmm, does Launchpad *not* have direction on how to push a branch to LP? [02:34] oh, I guess if you go to a specific branch it does [02:38] LaserJock: don't you have to push a branch in the first place to create one of those pages? :D [02:38] well yes, but in this case the branch already existed so it worked [02:39] but there are a lot of pages extolling the virtues of bzr but nothing that actually said how to push an initial branch [02:41] well, there's the man page for bzr. Some may not consider it so friendly... [02:43] well, I was more thinking the proper URL [02:44] I've found the bzr manpage great. [02:44] hmm [02:44] there's even bzr help lp [02:45] bzr help launchpad that is [02:46] wow [02:47] *cough* [02:53] yes, that's in the man page. [02:54] * LaserJock hands bddebian a lozenge [02:56] LaserJock: where was the first place you looked to try to figure it out? [02:56] LaserJock: (tell me so I can put some instructions there) [02:58] http://pastebin.ca/raw/815486 [02:58] does this look good [02:58] ignoring the / lines [03:02] LaserJock: :-) [03:03] jml: umm, code.launchpad.net [03:03] help.launchpad.net [03:04] how... obvious :) [03:05] LaserJock: did you look in the Help tab on code.launchpad.net? [03:05] jml: that was my hope [03:05] jml: no I didn't [03:05] LaserJock: fair enough, it's kind of small and easy to miss. [03:05] my LP experience is that the help tab is pointless and annoying [03:06] actual content could turn that around though [03:06] LaserJock: well, there is actual content on the code.lp.net help tab. the trick is having content everywhere, I guess. [03:07] jml: hmm, how handy [03:08] LaserJock: but the short answer is 'bzr push lp:~user/project/branchname' [03:08] (if you've got 1.0rc2 or higher) [03:09] mhh list command not working atm , anyone know an ANSI C specialized channel ? :) [03:09] yeah, I read something about that in bzr help launchpad [03:09] and bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~user/... otherwise. [03:09] LaserJock: I added that help text just recently :) [03:17] thanks anyway . see ya's [03:17] /quit [03:34] Hi all. I've been inactive for some time, due to my job, but I wanted to let you all know that the U.S. New Mexico LoCo is considering a packaging jam, and might want some tutors, if possible. [03:44] tritium: sweet [03:44] LaserJock: :) [03:44] tritium: fly me down there ;-) [03:44] LaserJock: believe it or not, I had already thought of that. [03:44] We'll look into it. [03:44] lol [03:44] seriously [03:44] it'd be fun [03:44] I was supposed to fly down to Vegas at some point for Ubuntu NV [03:45] but I don't know that that is ever gonna happen [03:45] LaserRock the MOTU superstar [03:45] hi ajmitch :) [03:45] LaserJock: Ponies! [03:46] ajmitch: only in desert areas [03:46] hi [03:46] ajmitch: I'm not sure we can afford tickets from NZ ;) [03:46] I wouldn't accept anyway :) [03:46] there are many, many more competent people [03:46] party pooper [03:47] ajmitch: pfft [03:48] ajmitch: not even to see your old pal tritium? ;) [03:48] doing anything ubuntu-related is beyond me now [03:50] How so, ajmitch? [03:50] no time/interest [03:55] But then I''ve lost my hero :'-( [03:56] Me too! [03:56] Of course I can still blame tritium for getting me into this mess ;-P [03:56] bddebian: yay, I love being a scapegoat! :) [03:56] tritium: Seriously, wasn't it you that gave me a package to work on first? [03:57] * bddebian is old and has a failing memory [03:57] Ubuntu 23.10, the Scary Scapegoat will be named for me ;) [03:57] bddebian: yes, it was me [03:57] haha [03:57] I'm glad you remember me [03:57] :-) [03:59] ajmitch: please say it isn't so... [04:00] ? [04:00] No interest? [04:00] pretty much, why? [04:00] I've done maybe a couple of uploads in the last several months [04:01] just sad to hear that [04:01] I'm only around here for entertainment value at this stage [04:01] * GoldenPony pokes ajmitch for entertainment [04:01] like that [04:01] shoot, I'm out of one-dollar bills [04:03] Hanging out in the girly bars again? :) [04:04] * RAOF mocks the US for having $1 paper money [04:05] RAOF, now now... that'd be hypocritical. you and your 1 dollar coins being bigger than your 2 dollar coins. [04:05] back soon, time to walk home in this 'summer' weather [04:05] RAOF, if you wish to mock them there are better reasons. [04:06] * bddebian looks outside at the ice hanging on the trees [04:06] DarkMageZ: Ok, I'll pay you that. [04:08] RAOF: the US has dollar coins, too [04:09] hi - where / how should I propose an interesting piece of software to be pacakfed in Ubuntu ? [04:09] MagicFab: fing a victim^H^H^H^H^H^Hvolunteer here [04:09] Specifically, Rivendell http://www.rivendellaudio.org [04:12] I'd guess that it hasn't been packaged due to some licensing reason, as I'm sure many others out there would have wanted to get it into Debian/Ubuntu. [04:20] * persia looks at the licensing in hopes of there being an easy workaround [04:21] I see several attempts at Debian packages, no word of licensing problems [04:22] No mention of it in debian legal either [04:23] * persia doesn't understand the point of upstream including patches in debian/patches [04:23] Eww. [04:26] MagicFab: I don't see any glaring reasons why it can't be packaged, although it's a complex package, and I'd hope upstream could be convinced to drop debian/ from their source download (.tar.gz) [04:28] MagicFab: If you're up for packaging it directly, may as well prepare a candidate. If not, you might want to open a needs-packaging bug. [04:32] persia, I can't even package my lunch, let alone anything for Ubuntu. But I can log the bug. Do you have an example ? === asac_ is now known as asac [04:34] MagicFab: Bug #176272. For extra points, mention the license, a short blurb about what the software does, and whether any additional packages will need to be done beforehand in the decsription. Be sure to add the "needs-packaging" tag so it appears in searches. [04:34] Launchpad bug 176272 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Freeverb3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176272 [04:35] I see "needs-packaging" in the summary too. Is that also suggested ? [04:36] MagicFab: Lots of people seem to do that. It means it shows up for summary searches as well as tag searches. On the other hand, the canned searches that most packagers use to pick candidates use the tags. [04:36] nevermind, I see a lot like that [04:37] * persia especially doesnt like the upstream debian/ because they fail to do http://rivendell.tryphon.org/wiki/index.php/Install_under_Debian in postinst, and stops looking at the source. [04:43] persia, actually there are Ubuntu packages: http://rivendell.tryphon.org/wiki/index.php/Install_Rivendell_on_Ubuntu [04:44] hmm uploaded a package to REVU, but seems like it went from incomming to /dev/null :P [04:44] MagicFab: In that case, you might one to poke on of the KRDT folks to try to get them into the archive (thereby closing your bug). [04:45] that's the plan :) [04:45] What URL could I point them to to start that process ? [04:46] !revu [04:46] REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU [04:46] MagicFab: Yep. That'd be the one. [04:47] Great! Thank you. [04:48] MagicFab: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/NewSoftware might also be useful [04:48] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/176278 [04:48] Launchpad bug 176278 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Rivendell (radio broadcast automation)" [Undecided,New] [04:48] MagicFab: Nevermind. Things keep moving: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages seems to point to both those places, and have a good overview as well. [04:52] Does anyone have any recommendations for workflow if there is interest in bringing a package on mentors.d.o into Ubuntu? [04:53] persia: imbrandon asked about that before [04:53] i do not think anyone had any suggestions [04:53] joejaxx: Do you happen to remember what people said? [04:53] maybe look at the package [04:53] and see what work needs to be don finished etc [04:53] done* [04:54] this came up when i asked about debian upstream source packages [04:54] people told me to review the package and if it was of quality just change the name [04:54] which too me seems like not giving credit [04:54] joejaxx: Sure. If a package is to be modified, the path is clear: once it gets Ubuntu versioning, if NEW, it belongs in REVU. I was just wondering about a case where a sync might be possible. [04:55] so i did not bother with uploading that package [04:55] persia: yeah [04:55] that was imbrandons case [04:55] i do not thnik anyone commented on that one [04:56] joejaxx: "Change the name" doesn't seem right. If modifying, I'd put the mentors.d.o maintainer in XBSC-Original-Maintainer, and proceed as with any other variation. [04:56] persia: that was my case :) not imbrandons [04:56] :) [04:56] sorry about the confusion [04:57] mine was "packaging" a debian source package already created from an upstream project [04:57] joejaxx: No confusion. I was just clarifying my position as you'd said you "did not bother with uploading that package". [04:57] his was sync from mentors.d.o [04:58] oh ok [04:58] joejaxx: Hrm. Maybe that's different. I usually have no concerns when wiping upstream debian/, but mentors.d.o debian/ likely represents something close to an eventual debian/ in Debian. [04:59] yeah [04:59] that is true === bddebian2 is now known as bddebian [06:19] hrm [06:19] quiet night [06:21] imbrandon: You could have a festival if you like: there's nothing else scheduled :) [06:21] * GoldenPony makes some noise. [06:21] heh [06:22] man i think my employer made a grave mistake [06:22] i was just reading over my contract [06:22] imbrandon: That's the purpose of employers: else you'd have little to do. [06:23] well i was reading the compensaition part, and it lists ( in the signed contract ) about 12 x what was verbaly said [06:23] imbrandon: what mistake? [06:23] thus i *think* they said X a month vs what they ment of X a year [06:23] imbrandon: Excellent. Complain for a couple months, take a couple years pay, and finish the move you had planned (and get yourself a computer) [06:23] lol [06:24] heh [06:29] imbrandon: that's a pretty big mistake [06:30] I wish my employer and the payroll people would make that kind of mistake [06:30] then I'm probably be making what some industry chemists make [06:33] imbrandon: if that's the case, I'll let you treat to Jack Stack when we go! [06:34] :) [06:42] \o/ [06:43] Man, everyone loves arguing about mono, don't they. [06:43] I sure do [06:43] [06:45] RAOF: got the link this time? [06:45] Burgundavia: ubuntu-devel-discuss@ [06:46] And ubuntuforums. And a launchpad specification. And a bug report, I think, but I may be making that last one up. [06:46] (17.44.58|! --QUIT--)) TomaszD with: "Leaving" [06:47] RAOF: I'm fairly certain you're making the last one up: I remember the person complaining about spec advertisement on #u-d [06:47] * RAOF wonders how he managed to paste that with irssi :( [06:47] RAOF: X buffer? [06:49] persia: there is a reason I unsubscribed from that list [06:49] Burgundavia: Sure, but it should be enough info for you to find an archive (you asked) [06:51] I am looking now and sighing [06:53] Good, innit. [06:53] the only point I will concede is that 48 mb for two apps is a lot [06:54] but there is the missing point that shipping mono means people can target mono apps on ubuntu and know that the deps are there [06:57] Burgundavia: Sure, but we don't provide that level of integration for haskell or Erlang, which I think was the point (note that I don't have an opinion either way) [06:59] haskell and erlang are not language people are writing lots of GNOME and GTK apps in [06:59] I see your strawman and raise you one point of realworld [07:00] Burgundavia: Well, there are glade bindings... [07:00] bindings != apps [07:00] there are perl and php gtk bindings as well [07:00] I think I can count on one hand all the perl and php gtk apps [07:00] PHP? [07:01] php apps that use gtk, not php in general [07:01] for that matter, there are not many Java GTK apps either [07:03] there's lots of languages out there [07:04] Ruby and Java being a couple big ones we don't have by default [07:04] http://www.cliki.net/Gtk [07:04] * persia notes there are more ocaml apps in universe than ruby apps [07:04] I don't think "we're gonna put it on the CD because we like the language" has worked for us in the past [07:05] i.e. python [07:05] persia: if you take that and compare against usage you migth get a different stroy [07:05] not to mention that the most used Ruby app, RoR, is not packaged [07:05] Burgundavia: rails is packaged. [07:06] right you are [07:06] I was thinking of some of the python web frameworks [07:06] what about apps that embed ruby scripting , like amarok :) heh [07:06] django is packaged (but maybe others aren't yet) [07:07] Hi all! [07:07] anyway, we have diverted from our original discussion about shipping a binding because there are lots of apps [07:08] I think it comes down to apps, mostly regardless of what they are written in [07:08] we do it with python, i dont see the problem with mono, givien monos status in the gnome world too [07:08] Burgundavia: Right. I thought diversion was the point. I at least don't really care, but believe that the ML discussion is caused by people paying attention to bindings instead of apps. [07:09] imbrandon: we ditched much of the python stuff though [07:09] LaserJock: not all, python is still in the default install [07:09] LaserJock: We did? I thought we still used python-by-default for all the little scripty gui things. [07:10] python is installed by default of course [07:10] as it is on OS X and almost all other *nix [07:10] but we used to have tons of python libraries and development-related packages [07:10] Mark wanted Ubuntu to be *the* python development platform [07:11] but we dropped a lot of that when we ran out of room [07:11] and we didn't really get an return [07:11] people can easily install development stuff from Universe [07:12] while we'll still on 1 CD I can't imagine us specifically shipping a language development platform [07:14] yea i really dont see us being on a 1-cd many more releases [07:15] 1-dvd [07:16] I need help with quilt. I have used dpatch to generate patches where it allows to edit files in a chroot. How to do the same in quilt? === xstasi`afk is now known as xstasi [07:21] I am trying to fix FTBFS for batik. I want opinion on a certain approach. Is it ok if I build it with reduced functionality to make it build with free java (gcj)? [07:25] slytherin: will it work with IcedTea? [07:26] LaserJock: No. There are some classes which depend on sun specific apis. These apis are not available even in icedtea. [07:26] That is why I am asking if it is ok to build with reduced functionality. [07:27] IceTea is sun, just sun java7, so i assume you mean java6 specific api's [07:27] imbrandon: it doesn't have *everything* as far as I understand it [07:27] LaserJock: but its still "sun" [07:27] :) [07:27] yes [07:28] but I assumed he meant Sun specific apis that haven't been implemented in IcedTea yet [07:28] right and i was correcting it so no assumptino was needed [07:29] well, that could still be sun 7 though, right? [07:29] it's not necessarily sun6 [07:29] huh? [07:29] I don't know why I'm arguing this, I know very little about Java stuff :-) [07:30] as I understood it sun 7 != IcedTea exactly [07:30] ahh icetea == what will be sun7 [07:30] e.g. icetea is kinda beta [07:30] its like sun 6.5 hehe [07:31] well, I thought there was actually differences still [07:31] no , icetea is a pre-release of sun7 [07:31] hmm [07:31] so sun7 will be "more" but not diffrent [07:31] I read something about Iced Tea not having implemented everything yet [07:32] imbrandon: LaserJock: No the apis I am referring to are only shipped in Sun JRE. Check second paragraph on this page, http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/docs/guide/2d/api-jpeg/com/sun/image/codec/jpeg/JPEGImageEncoder.html [07:32] so there was still sun-specific stuff in their sun7 [07:32] * Mahoru`Tsunemi is back: dodo ( 9:07:58 ) [07:33] I give up cause I really don't have a leg to stand on ;-) [07:33] So the apis in question are not core java apis. so even icedtea will not have them in future. [07:35] * slytherin goes for lunch [07:35] slytherin: well, the question is how important this functionality is [07:36] we have sun java so you *can* build from that [07:36] slytherin: are you sure its not in icedtea, looks like it is according to a patch on the openjdk ml [07:36] * imbrandon digs more [07:37] slytherin: http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/icedtea?cmd=changeset;node=2989dbf0b643 [07:41] hmm. the 'lisp' binary doesn't seem to be managed by alternatives. [08:05] imbrandon: Thanks for that link. I will try to build with icedtea. [08:06] slytherin: np [08:07] imbrandon: I slight problem. Looks like at least one of the class is stub. So does it make sense to build it? [08:07] all i can say is try it [08:07] imbrandon: Ok. Will let you know in half hour. === elkbuntu_ is now known as elkbuntu [08:25] imbrandon: is Saturday going to be ok for the SRU meeting? [08:25] LaserJock: sounds good to me [08:25] what time? [08:26] what was in the email? 21:00? [08:26] yea [08:26] I think that'll work [08:26] I'm kinda busy getting ready to leave for Christmas vacation [08:26] but the meeting should be pretty short [08:27] should be just intros, plan of attack for existing SRUs, solidifying policy, edit wiki [08:27] yea [08:27] the TB has pretty much said what they wanted [08:28] and I think everybody pretty much agrees that "Same as Main SRU" is good with the only exception I'd like to see is requiring 2 acks instead of just one [08:29] why? there is only 5 of us heh [08:29] i dont think makign it any harder than main is really good [08:30] yeah. but it's easier to get motu ack's than main ack's right? [08:32] DarkMageZ: motu ack != sru ack [08:33] universe sru ack* vs main sru ack* [08:34] DarkMageZ: point is one ack from the sru team should be good enough, if we have issues with that something else is wrong [08:34] just as with main [08:34] yeah, that is a good point [08:34] we really don't need to make this more difficult than need be [08:35] as long as MOTU SRU is on the same page as to what constitutes an SRU we should be good [08:35] yup [08:35] omgs new xchat versions... SRU =D [08:36] and if not i'm confident that being a member of the sru team or MOTU for that matter have the ability to ask when they are iffy about it [08:36] too bad we don't get to handle the gimp SRU request ;-) [08:37] lol [08:37] bluekuja: why does fische list only i386 and amd64 as archs? [08:37] zomg , flashplugin-nonfree STILL isnt built on all arches ( hell its only on 3 arches ) [08:37] this is nuts [08:37] gnash :P [08:42] imbrandon: batik doesn't build even in icedtea. :-( [08:42] * white waves to Fujitsu [08:42] slytherin: then i guess you only have one option [08:42] heya white [08:43] imbrandon: i never got the url ;) [08:43] imbrandon: what? [08:43] white: ahh yes, i did some more updates to it, not quite ready [08:43] good morning [08:43] imbrandon: take your time ;) [08:43] slytherin: use gcj [08:44] ( or icetea with the same patches ) [08:44] imbrandon: And don't build the things which depend on sun specific classes right? [08:44] without looking yes [08:44] imbrandon: Ok. For that I will need to create a patch for build.xml and I need help with quilt. :-D [08:45] morning dholbach and geser [08:45] good morning [08:45] heya LaserJock, hey geser [08:45] Hi LaserJock, dholbach [08:46] how are you guys doing? [08:46] Kubuntu Tutorials Day yesterday was AWESOME [08:46] dholbach: hi, after long time. :-) [08:46] hey slytherin [08:47] lots of energy yesterday, lots of people, lots of good questions [08:47] I expect we'll have more Kubuntu folks in here in the near future :) [08:47] bring em on [08:47] :) [08:47] dholbach: excellent [08:48] I had a look at JRs bzr session [08:52] moins dholbach [08:52]