[00:02] <LordKow> if debian broke their own policy and we merge, i wont fix it
[00:02] <LordKow> others might :)
[00:02] <LordKow> merge/sync
[00:03] <LordKow> unless its something horrible in which case the merge/sync probably would not be done
[00:04] <LaserJock> heh, Riddell's bzr 101 is pretty interesting reading :-)
[00:05] <Fujitsu> z,cb 5
[00:05] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[00:05] <LaserJock> Fujitsu: oh really?
[00:05] <LaserJock> was that trying to be vim?
[00:06] <Fujitsu> No, that was forgetting that I'm on a machine where my keyboard layout is Dvorak.
[00:06] <LaserJock> heh
[00:07] <LaserJock> so /win 5 ?
[00:07] <Fujitsu> Yes.
[00:08]  * xstasi is away: Dangerous like a razorback - Deadly like a heart attack
[00:08] <Fujitsu> xstasi: Please turn off that away message.
[00:08] <xstasi`afk> Fujitsu, sorry, it was automatic, i'll remember it
[00:34] <ember> how can i update shlibs with new symbols?
[00:43] <bddebian> Heya gang
[00:43] <Fujitsu> Hi bddebian.
[00:44] <bddebian> Heya Fujitsu
[00:56] <pochu> 'night
[01:06] <Fujitsu> ember: Please follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures when preparing security updates.
[01:08] <Fujitsu> I note that you made a number of inappropriate changes, and that the changelog is incorrectly formatted.
[01:09] <nixternal> yay for me...somehow I mucked up a tarball
[01:10] <Fujitsu> nixternal: What gives you that idea?
[01:10] <nixternal> archive spit it back at me calling me an idiot for not catching it
[01:10] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[01:20] <ember> Fujitsu: thanks for the info, fixing.
[01:28] <Fujitsu> ember: Thanks.
[01:32] <LaserJock> evening
[01:33] <GoldenPony> Neighvening.
[01:34] <LaserJock> GoldenPony: heh
[01:34]  * StevenK chuckles
[01:34] <TheMuso> Doe anybody happen to know whether there is PulseAudio v0.9.8 built against gutsy in someone's PPA?
[01:36] <pwnguin> TheMuso: theres a search engine somewhere
[01:36] <TheMuso> pwnguin: Hrm ok. I wasn't aware of that.
[01:36] <pwnguin> or maybe just google with site:ppa.launchapd.net
[01:37] <pwnguin> TheMuso: I can never find the engine, and its not very good
[01:37] <pwnguin> im searching for packages, not repos =/
[01:37] <TheMuso> right
[01:37] <pwnguin> but maybe google has crawled it
[01:38] <TheMuso> From doing a google search like that, I don't get anything other than a referenc to pulse in a package thats in my PPA.
[01:38] <pwnguin>  heh
[01:38] <pwnguin> doh
[01:38] <pwnguin> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
[01:38] <TheMuso> Oh well, no big problem. I just thought someone may have had it. I'll just upload hardy's pulse to my ppa for gutsy and see what happens.
[01:39] <pwnguin> fun times
[01:39] <pwnguin> ive never had that not work, but i'd hate to see what can go wrong
[01:39] <TheMuso> Anyway, I'll find out soon enough.
[01:39] <crimsun> TheMuso: if you use the pulse alsa-lib plugin, you'll need to build hardy's alsa-plugins source, too.
[01:40] <TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks for the heads up, but at this point, I don't think I'll need that.
[01:40] <TheMuso> I am setting up packages for users on gutsy to test accessibility stuff for hardy, without them having to run hardy.
[01:41] <crimsun> understood.  Alpha 2 desktop CD might be a better go.
[01:41] <pwnguin> is it alpha 2 already?
[01:41] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[01:41] <TheMuso> A week.
[01:41] <StevenK> Almost
[01:41] <LaserJock> yeah, testing is always a pain that way
[01:42] <pwnguin> man, i dont even have a new kernel yet =/
[01:42] <persia> TheMuso: Are you working to get speech-dispatcher working through pulse?
[01:42] <LaserJock> the people who you want to have testing your stuff are the people who don't want to use development code
[01:42] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Yep, and one can understand why they don't.
[01:42] <pwnguin> LaserJock: well, Ubuntu's policies are pretty much "don't bother"
[01:42] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:42] <TheMuso> And they don't often have a box that they can easily set up for testing dev stuff either.
[01:43] <LaserJock> pwnguin: "don't bother"?
[01:43] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Added to that, with accessibility fluctuating during the early stages of a dev release, theres no garentee they'll be able to recover from problems, since they can't see what they are doing.
[01:43] <pwnguin> LaserJock: as in "dont use it unless you can recover from massive breakage"
[01:43] <TheMuso> for blind people that is
[01:43] <TheMuso> I'm lucky in that regard.
[01:44] <LaserJock> TheMuso: very true, that's a good point
[01:44] <pwnguin> the current topic for #ubuntu+1
[01:44] <LaserJock> pwnguin: well, it's pragmatic, not policy
[01:44] <pwnguin> "The home of Hardy  Heron and various breakage"
[01:45] <persia> pwnguin: It's a matter that if it breaks, nobody promises to help you fix it, and if you can't tell what went wrong, even more so.
[01:45] <pwnguin> I think in the end, usability testing just needs an office and testers =(
[01:45] <LaserJock> it's not "our policy is to not let users test stuff", but rather "look, things are gonna break while we're developing"
[01:45] <TheMuso> And hell, most of us don't even run dev releases, except on throw around boxes.
[01:46] <TheMuso> I certainly don't.
[01:46] <LaserJock> I only have chroots at the moment
[01:46] <persia> TheMuso: Many developers seem to be on the dev release by Feature Freeze (although, yes, not all)
[01:46] <TheMuso> persia: I am usually around FF, but not always.
[01:47] <TheMuso> But having several boxes that I can install the dev release on, allows me to do real world testing without sacrificing data.
[01:47] <TheMuso> and being able to actually do stuff.
[01:48] <pwnguin> but it's certainly a hole in the process. user files bug against stable version, dev applies patch and asks if it's fixed in dev version
[01:48] <persia> pwnguin: See the spec about bugfix verification
[01:48] <pwnguin> well huzzah
[02:08]  * emgent hi
[02:34] <LaserJock> hmm, does Launchpad *not* have direction on how to push a branch to LP?
[02:34] <LaserJock> oh, I guess if you go to a specific branch it does
[02:38] <jdong> LaserJock: don't you have to push a branch in the first place to create one of those pages? :D
[02:38] <LaserJock> well yes, but in this case the branch already existed so it worked
[02:39] <LaserJock> but there are a lot of pages extolling the virtues of bzr but nothing that actually said how to push an initial branch
[02:41] <crimsun> well, there's the man page for bzr.  Some may not consider it so friendly...
[02:43] <LaserJock> well, I was more thinking the proper URL
[02:44] <TheMuso> I've found the bzr manpage great.
[02:44] <LaserJock> hmm
[02:44] <LaserJock> there's even bzr help lp
[02:45] <LaserJock> bzr help launchpad that is
[02:46] <TheMuso> wow
[02:47] <bddebian> *cough*
[02:53] <crimsun> yes, that's in the man page.
[02:54]  * LaserJock hands bddebian  a lozenge
[02:56] <jml> LaserJock: where was the first place you looked to try to figure it out?
[02:56] <jml> LaserJock: (tell me so I can put some instructions there)
[02:58] <cheguevara> http://pastebin.ca/raw/815486
[02:58] <cheguevara> does this look good
[02:58] <cheguevara> ignoring the / lines
[03:02] <bddebian> LaserJock: :-)
[03:03] <LaserJock> jml: umm, code.launchpad.net
[03:03] <LaserJock> help.launchpad.net
[03:04] <jml> how... obvious :)
[03:05] <jml> LaserJock: did you look in the Help tab on code.launchpad.net?
[03:05] <LaserJock> jml: that was my hope
[03:05] <LaserJock> jml: no I didn't
[03:05] <jml> LaserJock: fair enough, it's kind of small and easy to miss.
[03:05] <LaserJock> my LP experience is that the help tab is pointless and annoying
[03:06] <LaserJock> actual content could turn that around though
[03:06] <jml> LaserJock: well, there is actual content on the code.lp.net help tab. the trick is having content everywhere, I guess.
[03:07] <LaserJock> jml: hmm, how handy
[03:08] <jml> LaserJock: but the short answer is 'bzr push lp:~user/project/branchname'
[03:08] <jml> (if you've got 1.0rc2 or higher)
[03:09] <naaraxi> mhh list command not working atm , anyone know an ANSI C specialized channel ? :)
[03:09] <LaserJock> yeah, I read something about that in bzr help launchpad
[03:09] <jml> and bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~user/... otherwise.
[03:09] <jml> LaserJock: I added that help text just recently :)
[03:17] <naaraxi> thanks anyway . see ya's
[03:17] <naaraxi>  /quit
[03:34] <tritium> Hi all.  I've been inactive for some time, due to my job, but I wanted to let you all know that the U.S. New Mexico LoCo is considering a packaging jam, and might want some tutors, if possible.
[03:44] <LaserJock> tritium: sweet
[03:44] <tritium> LaserJock: :)
[03:44] <LaserJock> tritium: fly me down there ;-)
[03:44] <tritium> LaserJock: believe it or not, I had already thought of that.
[03:44] <tritium> We'll look into it.
[03:44] <LaserJock> lol
[03:44] <tritium> seriously
[03:44] <LaserJock> it'd be fun
[03:44] <LaserJock> I was supposed to fly down to Vegas at some point for Ubuntu NV
[03:45] <LaserJock> but I don't know that that is ever gonna happen
[03:45] <ajmitch> LaserRock the MOTU superstar
[03:45] <tritium> hi ajmitch :)
[03:45] <StevenK> LaserJock: Ponies!
[03:46] <LaserJock> ajmitch: only in desert areas
[03:46] <ajmitch> hi
[03:46] <tritium> ajmitch: I'm not sure we can afford tickets from NZ ;)
[03:46] <ajmitch> I wouldn't accept anyway :)
[03:46] <ajmitch> there are many, many more competent people
[03:46] <LaserJock> party pooper
[03:47] <tritium> ajmitch: pfft
[03:48] <tritium> ajmitch: not even to see your old pal tritium?  ;)
[03:48] <ajmitch> doing anything ubuntu-related is beyond me now
[03:50] <tritium> How so, ajmitch?
[03:50] <ajmitch> no time/interest
[03:55] <bddebian> But then I''ve lost my hero :'-(
[03:56] <tritium> Me too!
[03:56] <bddebian> Of course I can still blame tritium for getting me into this mess ;-P
[03:56] <tritium> bddebian: yay, I love being a scapegoat!  :)
[03:56] <bddebian> tritium: Seriously, wasn't it you that gave me a package to work on first?
[03:57]  * bddebian is old and has a failing memory
[03:57] <tritium> Ubuntu 23.10, the Scary Scapegoat will be named for me ;)
[03:57] <tritium> bddebian: yes, it was me
[03:57] <bddebian> haha
[03:57] <tritium> I'm glad you remember me
[03:57] <bddebian> :-)
[03:59] <tritium> ajmitch: please say it isn't so...
[04:00] <ajmitch> ?
[04:00] <tritium> No interest?
[04:00] <ajmitch> pretty much, why?
[04:00] <ajmitch> I've done maybe a couple of uploads in the last several months
[04:01] <tritium> just sad to hear that
[04:01] <ajmitch> I'm only around here for entertainment value at this stage
[04:01]  * GoldenPony pokes ajmitch for entertainment
[04:01] <ajmitch> like that
[04:01] <tritium> shoot, I'm out of one-dollar bills
[04:03] <bddebian> Hanging out in the girly bars again? :)
[04:04]  * RAOF mocks the US for having $1 paper money
[04:05] <DarkMageZ> RAOF, now now... that'd be hypocritical. you and your 1 dollar coins being bigger than your 2 dollar coins.
[04:05] <ajmitch> back soon, time to walk home in this 'summer' weather
[04:05] <DarkMageZ> RAOF, if you wish to mock them there are better reasons.
[04:06]  * bddebian looks outside at the ice hanging on the trees
[04:06] <RAOF> DarkMageZ: Ok, I'll pay you that.
[04:08] <mneptok> RAOF: the US has dollar coins, too
[04:09] <MagicFab> hi - where / how should I propose an interesting piece of software to be pacakfed in Ubuntu ?
[04:09] <mneptok> MagicFab: fing a victim^H^H^H^H^H^Hvolunteer here
[04:09] <MagicFab> Specifically, Rivendell http://www.rivendellaudio.org
[04:12] <TheMuso> I'd guess that it hasn't been packaged due to some licensing reason, as I'm sure many others out there would have wanted to get it into Debian/Ubuntu.
[04:20]  * persia looks at the licensing in hopes of there being an easy workaround
[04:21] <MagicFab> I see several attempts at Debian packages, no word of licensing problems
[04:22] <MagicFab> No mention of it in debian legal either
[04:23]  * persia doesn't understand the point of upstream including patches in debian/patches
[04:23] <Fujitsu> Eww.
[04:26] <persia> MagicFab: I don't see any glaring reasons why it can't be packaged, although it's a complex package, and I'd hope upstream could be convinced to drop debian/ from their source download (.tar.gz)
[04:28] <persia> MagicFab: If you're up for packaging it directly, may as well prepare a candidate.  If not, you might want to open a needs-packaging bug.
[04:32] <MagicFab> persia, I can't even package my lunch, let alone anything for Ubuntu. But I can log the bug. Do you have an example ?
[04:34] <persia> MagicFab: Bug #176272.  For extra points, mention the license, a short blurb about what the software does, and whether any additional packages will need to be done beforehand in the decsription.  Be sure to add the "needs-packaging" tag so it appears in searches.
[04:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176272 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Freeverb3" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176272
[04:35] <MagicFab> I see "needs-packaging" in the summary too. Is that also suggested ?
[04:36] <persia> MagicFab: Lots of people seem to do that.  It means it shows up for summary searches as well as tag searches.  On the other hand, the canned searches that most packagers use to pick candidates use the tags.
[04:36] <MagicFab> nevermind, I see a lot like that
[04:37]  * persia especially doesnt like the upstream debian/ because they fail to do http://rivendell.tryphon.org/wiki/index.php/Install_under_Debian in postinst, and stops looking at the source.
[04:43] <MagicFab> persia, actually there are Ubuntu packages: http://rivendell.tryphon.org/wiki/index.php/Install_Rivendell_on_Ubuntu
[04:44] <cheguevara> hmm uploaded a package to REVU, but seems like it went from incomming to /dev/null :P
[04:44] <persia> MagicFab: In that case, you might one to poke on of the KRDT folks to try to get them into the archive (thereby closing your bug).
[04:45] <MagicFab> that's the plan :)
[04:45] <MagicFab> What URL could I point them to to start that process ?
[04:46] <persia> !revu
[04:46] <ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[04:46] <persia> MagicFab: Yep.  That'd be the one.
[04:47] <MagicFab> Great! Thank you.
[04:48] <persia> MagicFab: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/NewSoftware might also be useful
[04:48] <MagicFab> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/176278
[04:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176278 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Rivendell (radio broadcast automation)" [Undecided,New]
[04:48] <persia> MagicFab: Nevermind.  Things keep moving: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages seems to point to both those places, and have a good overview as well.
[04:52] <persia> Does anyone have any recommendations for workflow if there is interest in bringing a package on mentors.d.o into Ubuntu?
[04:53] <joejaxx> persia: imbrandon asked about that before
[04:53] <joejaxx> i do not think anyone had any suggestions
[04:53] <persia> joejaxx: Do you happen to remember what people said?
[04:53] <joejaxx> maybe look at the package
[04:53] <joejaxx> and see what work needs to be don finished etc
[04:53] <joejaxx> done*
[04:54] <joejaxx> this came up when i asked about debian upstream source packages
[04:54] <joejaxx> people told me to review the package and if it was of quality just change the name
[04:54] <joejaxx> which too me seems like not giving credit
[04:54] <persia> joejaxx: Sure.  If a package is to be modified, the path is clear: once it gets Ubuntu versioning, if NEW, it belongs in REVU.  I was just wondering about a case where a sync might be possible.
[04:55] <joejaxx> so i did not bother with uploading that package
[04:55] <joejaxx> persia: yeah
[04:55] <joejaxx> that was imbrandons case
[04:55] <joejaxx> i do not thnik anyone commented on that one
[04:56] <persia> joejaxx: "Change the name" doesn't seem right.  If modifying, I'd put the mentors.d.o maintainer in XBSC-Original-Maintainer, and proceed as with any other variation.
[04:56] <joejaxx> persia: that was my case :) not imbrandons
[04:56] <joejaxx> :)
[04:56] <joejaxx> sorry about the confusion
[04:57] <joejaxx> mine was "packaging" a debian source package already created from an upstream project
[04:57] <persia> joejaxx: No confusion.  I was just clarifying my position as you'd said you "did not bother with uploading that package".
[04:57] <joejaxx> his was sync from mentors.d.o
[04:58] <joejaxx> oh ok
[04:58] <persia> joejaxx: Hrm.  Maybe that's different.  I usually have no concerns when wiping upstream debian/, but mentors.d.o debian/ likely represents something close to an eventual debian/ in Debian.
[04:59] <joejaxx> yeah
[04:59] <joejaxx> that is true
[06:19] <imbrandon> hrm
[06:19] <imbrandon> quiet night
[06:21] <persia> imbrandon: You could have a festival if you like: there's nothing else scheduled :)
[06:21]  * GoldenPony makes some noise.
[06:21] <imbrandon> heh
[06:22] <imbrandon> man i think my employer made a grave mistake
[06:22] <imbrandon> i was just reading over my contract
[06:22] <persia> imbrandon: That's the purpose of employers: else you'd have little to do.
[06:23] <imbrandon> well i was reading the compensaition part, and it lists ( in the signed contract ) about 12 x what was verbaly said
[06:23] <tritium> imbrandon: what mistake?
[06:23] <imbrandon> thus i *think* they said X a month vs what they ment of X a year
[06:23] <persia> imbrandon: Excellent.  Complain for a couple months, take a couple years pay, and finish the move you had planned (and get yourself a computer)
[06:23] <imbrandon> lol
[06:24] <tritium> heh
[06:29] <LaserJock> imbrandon: that's a pretty big mistake
[06:30] <LaserJock> I wish my employer and the payroll people would make that kind of mistake
[06:30] <LaserJock> then I'm probably be making what some industry chemists make
[06:33] <tritium> imbrandon: if that's the case, I'll let you treat to Jack Stack when we go!
[06:34] <imbrandon> :)
[06:42] <LaserJock> \o/
[06:43] <RAOF> Man, everyone loves arguing about mono, don't they.
[06:43] <LaserJock> I sure do

[06:45] <Burgundavia> RAOF: got the link this time?
[06:45] <persia> Burgundavia: ubuntu-devel-discuss@
[06:46] <RAOF> And ubuntuforums.  And a launchpad specification.  And a bug report, I think, but I may be  making that last one up.
[06:46] <RAOF> (17.44.58|! --QUIT--)) TomaszD with: "Leaving"
[06:47] <persia> RAOF: I'm fairly certain you're making the last one up: I remember the person complaining about spec advertisement on #u-d
[06:47]  * RAOF wonders how he managed to paste that with irssi :(
[06:47] <persia> RAOF: X buffer?
[06:49] <Burgundavia> persia: there is a reason I unsubscribed from that list
[06:49] <persia> Burgundavia: Sure, but it should be enough info for you to find an archive (you asked)
[06:51] <Burgundavia> I am looking now and sighing
[06:53] <RAOF> Good, innit.
[06:53] <Burgundavia> the only point I will concede is that 48 mb for two apps is a lot
[06:54] <Burgundavia> but there is the missing point that shipping mono means people can target mono apps on ubuntu and know that the deps are there
[06:57] <persia> Burgundavia: Sure, but we don't provide that level of integration for haskell or Erlang, which I think was the point (note that I don't have an opinion either way)
[06:59] <Burgundavia> haskell and erlang are not language people are writing lots of GNOME and GTK apps in
[06:59] <Burgundavia> I see your strawman and raise you one point of realworld
[07:00] <persia> Burgundavia: Well, there are glade bindings...
[07:00] <Burgundavia> bindings != apps
[07:00] <Burgundavia> there are perl and php gtk bindings as well
[07:00] <Burgundavia> I think I can count on one hand all the perl and php gtk apps
[07:00] <persia> PHP?
[07:01] <Burgundavia> php apps that use gtk, not php in general
[07:01] <Burgundavia> for that matter, there are not many Java GTK apps either
[07:03] <LaserJock> there's lots of languages out there
[07:04] <LaserJock> Ruby and Java being a couple big ones we don't have by default
[07:04] <Burgundavia> http://www.cliki.net/Gtk
[07:04]  * persia notes there are more ocaml apps in universe than ruby apps
[07:04] <LaserJock> I don't think "we're gonna put it on the CD because we like the language" has worked for us in the past
[07:05] <LaserJock> i.e. python
[07:05] <Burgundavia> persia: if you take that and compare against usage you migth get a different stroy
[07:05] <Burgundavia> not to mention that the most used Ruby app, RoR, is not packaged
[07:05] <persia> Burgundavia: rails is packaged.
[07:06] <Burgundavia> right you are
[07:06] <Burgundavia> I was thinking of some of the python web frameworks
[07:06] <imbrandon> what about apps that embed ruby scripting , like amarok :) heh
[07:06] <persia> django is packaged (but maybe others aren't yet)
[07:07] <warp10> Hi all!
[07:07] <Burgundavia> anyway, we have diverted from our original discussion about shipping a binding because there are lots of apps
[07:08] <LaserJock> I think it comes down to apps, mostly regardless of what they are written in
[07:08] <imbrandon> we do it with python, i dont see the problem with mono, givien monos status in the gnome world too
[07:08] <persia> Burgundavia: Right.  I thought diversion was the point.  I at least don't really care, but believe that the ML discussion is caused by people paying attention to bindings instead of apps.
[07:09] <LaserJock> imbrandon: we ditched much of the python stuff though
[07:09] <imbrandon> LaserJock: not all, python is still in the default install
[07:09] <persia> LaserJock: We did?  I thought we still used python-by-default for all the little scripty gui things.
[07:10] <LaserJock> python is installed by default of course
[07:10] <LaserJock> as it is on OS X and almost all other *nix
[07:10] <LaserJock> but we used to have tons of python libraries and development-related packages
[07:10] <LaserJock> Mark wanted Ubuntu to be *the* python development platform
[07:11] <LaserJock> but we dropped a lot of that when we ran out of room
[07:11] <LaserJock> and we didn't really get an return
[07:11] <LaserJock> people can easily install development stuff from Universe
[07:12] <LaserJock> while we'll still on 1 CD I can't imagine us specifically shipping a language development platform
[07:14] <imbrandon> yea i really dont see us being on a 1-cd many more releases
[07:15] <imbrandon> 1-dvd
[07:16] <slytherin> I need help with quilt. I have used dpatch to generate patches where it allows to edit files in a chroot. How to do the same in quilt?
[07:21] <slytherin> I am trying to fix FTBFS for batik. I want opinion on a certain approach. Is it ok if I build it with reduced functionality to make it build with free java (gcj)?
[07:25] <LaserJock> slytherin: will it work with IcedTea?
[07:26] <slytherin> LaserJock: No. There are some classes which depend on sun specific apis. These apis are not available even in icedtea.
[07:26] <slytherin> That is why I am asking if it is ok to build with reduced functionality.
[07:27] <imbrandon> IceTea is sun, just sun java7, so i assume you mean java6 specific api's
[07:27] <LaserJock> imbrandon: it doesn't have *everything* as far as I understand it
[07:27] <imbrandon> LaserJock: but its still "sun"
[07:27] <imbrandon> :)
[07:27] <LaserJock> yes
[07:28] <LaserJock> but I assumed he meant Sun specific apis that haven't been implemented in IcedTea yet
[07:28] <imbrandon> right and i was correcting it so no assumptino was needed
[07:29] <LaserJock> well, that could still be sun 7 though, right?
[07:29] <LaserJock> it's not necessarily sun6
[07:29] <imbrandon> huh?
[07:29] <LaserJock> I don't know why I'm arguing this, I know very little about Java stuff :-)
[07:30] <LaserJock> as I understood it sun 7 != IcedTea exactly
[07:30] <imbrandon> ahh icetea == what will be sun7
[07:30] <imbrandon> e.g. icetea is kinda beta
[07:30] <imbrandon> its like sun 6.5 hehe
[07:31] <LaserJock> well, I thought there was actually differences still
[07:31] <imbrandon> no , icetea is a pre-release of sun7
[07:31] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:31] <imbrandon> so sun7 will be "more" but not diffrent
[07:31] <LaserJock> I read something about Iced Tea not having implemented everything yet
[07:32] <slytherin> imbrandon: LaserJock: No the apis I am referring to are only shipped in Sun JRE. Check second paragraph on this page, http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/docs/guide/2d/api-jpeg/com/sun/image/codec/jpeg/JPEGImageEncoder.html
[07:32] <LaserJock> so there was still sun-specific stuff in their sun7
[07:32]  * Mahoru`Tsunemi is back: dodo ( 9:07:58 )
[07:33] <LaserJock> I give up cause I really don't have a leg to stand on ;-)
[07:33] <slytherin> So the apis in question are not core java apis. so even icedtea will not have them in future.
[07:35]  * slytherin goes for lunch
[07:35] <LaserJock> slytherin: well, the question is how important this functionality is
[07:36] <LaserJock> we have sun java so you *can* build from that
[07:36] <imbrandon> slytherin: are you sure its not in icedtea, looks like it is according to a patch on the openjdk ml
[07:36]  * imbrandon digs more
[07:37] <imbrandon> slytherin: http://icedtea.classpath.org/hg/icedtea?cmd=changeset;node=2989dbf0b643
[07:41] <jml> hmm. the 'lisp' binary doesn't seem to be managed by alternatives.
[08:05] <slytherin> imbrandon: Thanks for that link. I will try to build with icedtea.
[08:06] <imbrandon> slytherin: np
[08:07] <slytherin> imbrandon: I slight problem. Looks like at least one of the class is stub. So does it make sense to build it?
[08:07] <imbrandon> all i can say is try it
[08:07] <slytherin> imbrandon: Ok. Will let you know in half hour.
[08:25] <LaserJock> imbrandon: is Saturday going to be ok for the SRU meeting?
[08:25] <imbrandon> LaserJock: sounds good to me
[08:25] <imbrandon> what time?
[08:26] <LaserJock> what was in the email? 21:00?
[08:26] <imbrandon> yea
[08:26] <LaserJock> I think that'll work
[08:26] <LaserJock> I'm  kinda busy getting ready to leave for Christmas vacation
[08:26] <LaserJock> but the meeting should be pretty short
[08:27] <LaserJock> should be just intros, plan of attack for existing SRUs, solidifying policy, edit wiki
[08:27] <imbrandon> yea
[08:27] <LaserJock> the TB has pretty much said what they wanted
[08:28] <LaserJock> and I think everybody pretty much agrees that "Same as Main SRU" is good with the only exception I'd like to see is requiring 2 acks instead of just one
[08:29] <imbrandon> why? there is only 5 of us heh
[08:29] <imbrandon> i dont think makign it any harder than main is really good
[08:30] <DarkMageZ> yeah. but it's easier to get motu ack's than main ack's right?
[08:32] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: motu ack != sru ack
[08:33] <DarkMageZ> universe sru ack* vs main sru ack*
[08:34] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: point is one ack from the sru team should be good enough, if we have issues with that something else is wrong
[08:34] <imbrandon> just as with main
[08:34] <LaserJock> yeah, that is a good point
[08:34] <LaserJock> we really don't need to make this more difficult than need be
[08:35] <LaserJock> as long as MOTU SRU is on the same page as to what constitutes an SRU we should be good
[08:35] <imbrandon> yup
[08:35] <DarkMageZ> omgs new xchat versions... SRU =D
[08:36] <imbrandon> and if not i'm confident that being a member of the sru team or MOTU for that matter have the ability to ask when they are iffy about it
[08:36] <LaserJock> too bad we don't get to handle the gimp SRU request ;-)
[08:37] <imbrandon> lol
[08:37] <slangasek> bluekuja: why does fische list only i386 and amd64 as archs?
[08:37] <imbrandon> zomg , flashplugin-nonfree STILL isnt built on all arches ( hell its only on 3 arches )
[08:37] <imbrandon> this is nuts
[08:37] <DarkMageZ> gnash :P
[08:42] <slytherin> imbrandon: batik doesn't build even in icedtea. :-(
[08:42]  * white waves to Fujitsu 
[08:42] <imbrandon> slytherin: then i guess you only have one option
[08:42] <imbrandon> heya white
[08:43] <white> imbrandon: i never got the url ;)
[08:43] <slytherin> imbrandon: what?
[08:43] <imbrandon> white: ahh yes, i did some more updates to it, not quite ready
[08:43] <geser> good morning
[08:43] <white> imbrandon: take your time ;)
[08:43] <imbrandon> slytherin: use gcj
[08:44] <imbrandon> ( or icetea with the same patches )
[08:44] <slytherin> imbrandon: And don't build the things which depend on sun specific classes right?
[08:44] <imbrandon> without looking yes
[08:44] <slytherin> imbrandon: Ok. For that I will need to create a patch for build.xml and I need help with quilt. :-D
[08:45] <LaserJock> morning dholbach and geser
[08:45] <dholbach> good morning
[08:45] <dholbach> heya LaserJock, hey geser
[08:45] <geser> Hi LaserJock, dholbach
[08:46] <dholbach> how are you guys doing?
[08:46] <dholbach> Kubuntu Tutorials Day yesterday was AWESOME
[08:46] <slytherin> dholbach: hi, after long time. :-)
[08:46] <dholbach> hey slytherin
[08:47] <dholbach> lots of energy yesterday, lots of people, lots of good questions
[08:47] <dholbach> I expect we'll have more Kubuntu folks in here in the near future :)
[08:47] <imbrandon> bring em on
[08:47] <imbrandon> :)
[08:47] <LaserJock> dholbach: excellent
[08:48] <LaserJock> I had a look at JRs bzr session
[08:52] <imbrandon> moins dholbach
[08:52] <dholbach> hey imbrandon, hey ogra
[08:52]  * pochu waves
[08:57] <_evo1> hey
[08:57] <_evo1> i would like to help develop ubuntu, where can i start?
[08:59] <LucidFox> _evo1> You could start by filing bug reports in Launchpad, and translating packages
[09:00] <LucidFox> If you want to learn deb packaging, you can consult the Ubuntu packaging guide: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[09:01] <_evo1> LucidFox: ok thanks man
[09:02] <markvandenborre> I know this is not motu, but I feel like I might have encountered a bug in nautilus, and I'm not sure how to troubleshoot it
[09:02] <markvandenborre> very frequent random lockups
[09:02] <markvandenborre> is the symptom, but I find it hard to look for log files, or make error reporting more verbose
[09:03] <markvandenborre> any thoughts, hints, ideas?
[09:03] <LucidFox> markvandenborre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus ;)
[09:03] <markvandenborre> more appropriate channels to ask?
[09:03] <markvandenborre> LucidFox, I'll go through some more of that
[09:04] <LucidFox> #ubuntu is more appropriate, I think :)
[09:14] <dholbach> markvandenborre: #ubuntu-desktop might help too
[09:14] <markvandenborre> dholbach, will have a look
[09:14] <txwikinger2> Morning dholbach
[09:15] <dholbach> hey txwikinger2
[09:15] <markvandenborre> btw, dholbach , do you know anyone who would be interested in leading a somewhat high profile packaging jam in the Brussels area, in the beginning of march timeframe?
[09:16] <markvandenborre> then please mail me...
[09:16] <markvandenborre> have to go from here now...
[09:16] <dholbach> markvandenborre: ok, will think about it
[09:16] <markvandenborre> dholbach, thanks and bye
[09:20] <slytherin> need a bit help with quilt.
[09:21] <slytherin> There are already 2 patches in debian/patches directory but there is no series file. I want to add a third patch, how do I proceed?
[09:55] <slytherin> I am getting following error when try to create a new patch using quilt, Nothing in patch 03_fix_ftbfs.patch. Please help
[09:57] <slytherin> Is there no one who can help me with quilt? Please I want to finish this today. :-(
[09:58] <imbrandon> never used quilt in my life, google or the quilt man pages might help
[09:58] <dholbach> slytherin: try asking lool in #ubuntu-desktop
[09:58] <dholbach> he's the quilt king
[09:59] <slytherin> dholbach: Ok. Thanks.
[09:59] <dholbach> if you get a good answer, it might be worth adding it to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
[10:00] <slytherin> will do
[10:00] <slangasek> slytherin: how are you trying to create it?
[10:01] <slytherin> slangasek: I am trying to follow a pdf found on net. I did 'quilt new patchname' then 'quilt add filename' and then 'quilt edit filename'. But after finishing editing when I do 'quilt refresh' I get error
[10:03] <slangasek> have you tried just editing the filename with your editor, instead of "quilt edit filename"?
[10:03] <slangasek> I've never used "quilt edit", and it's certainly not required if you've done "quilt add" already
[10:04] <slangasek> so it may make some conflicting assumptions
[10:07] <slytherin> slangasek: I will try. The basic problem is that there is no series file in patches/ even though there are two patches. So I need to sort that out first.
[10:08] <slangasek> hmm
[10:08] <slangasek> I would expect that to be populated by 'quilt refresh'
[11:00] <tarzeau> hi
[11:02] <tarzeau> some hardy stats http://krum.ethz.ch/ubuntu/ddc/hardy/
[11:17] <TuxCrafter> hello everybodu
[11:17] <TuxCrafter> apt-cache show ttf-linux-libertine
[11:17] <TuxCrafter> the above command does not return anything on my computer is this normal?
[11:20] <imbrandon> TuxCrafter: if its not in the apt-cache yes
[11:20] <TuxCrafter> imbrandon: so some packages just don't have a discription?
[11:21] <imbrandon> no it means the package dosent exist
[11:21] <imbrandon> your likely looking for linux-libertine
[11:21] <imbrandon> apt-cache show linux-libertine
[11:22] <TuxCrafter> imbrandon: ah ok
[11:22] <imbrandon> :)
[11:23] <TuxCrafter> i was looking for the liberation fonts :-p
[11:23] <DarkMageZ> anyone interested in a amarok 2 source package that builds and works on hardy?
[11:24] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: sure ( and nixternal works on that quite a bit too )
[11:24] <DarkMageZ> i'll upload it then
[11:24] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: and the fellas in #kubuntu-devel
[11:24] <TuxCrafter> imbrandon: thanks for the information
[11:25] <imbrandon> DarkMageZ: just as easy to attach a debdiff to the bug
[11:25] <imbrandon> and request a sponsor
[11:25] <DarkMageZ> imbrandon, requires a new svn snapshot :P
[11:26] <imbrandon> ok ... still good to work with the kubuntu guys and pkg-kde guys on it, i'm certain they would welcome the help
[11:38] <imbrandon> hrm is there an API for gpg ? e.g. i want to verify the sig on a file from a program and want to avoid calling "gpg --verify <file>|grep Good" or similar
[11:42] <dholbach_> python-gnupginterface?
[11:42] <victor_> imbrandon: "gpgme"
[11:43] <imbrandon> dholbach: heh cept its not python :)
[11:43] <imbrandon> ( i'm actualy doing some c# code )
[12:08] <mruiz> hi all
[12:09] <SWAT> I'm building a couple of packages and once is a dependency of the other. Since it's not in the repo's, cowbuilder can't find it. How can I 'manually' add a dependency like this?
[12:12] <mruiz> dholbach, did you enjoy your session?
[12:13] <dholbach> mruiz: yeah, the Kubuntu Tutorials Day was awesome
[12:13] <dholbach> lots of energy, lots of good people, it was great
[12:13] <dholbach> I guess we'll see a bunch of Kubuntu MOTUs soon ;-)
[12:16]  * txwikinger2 puts his name on that list :)
[12:16] <mruiz> dholbach, great
[12:17] <mruiz> I was reading the hardy changelog and I noticed that many kde packages were updated yesterday :-)
[12:19] <SWAT> since KDE has a lot of updates, a lot of packages need to be updated ;)
[12:21] <mruiz> SWAT, hahaha
[12:25]  * Hobbsee waves
[12:29] <txwikinger2> Hi Hobbsee
[12:46] <zul> morning
[12:49] <mruiz> morning zul
[12:53] <ScottK> morning zul and mruiz
[12:54] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 6 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[12:54] <zul> hi ScottK and mr_pouit
[12:54] <zul> doh...mruiz
[12:54] <dholbach> hey zul, hey ScottK
[12:54] <zul> hey dholbach
[12:54] <ScottK> hola dholbach
[12:55] <dholbach> comment ça va? :)
[12:56] <zul> ca va bien et toi?
[12:57] <dholbach> merci beacoup... je suis un peu fatigué mais ça va bien
[12:57] <zul> bien bien
[12:57] <dholbach> :-)
[12:57] <zul> its merci buckets btw :)
[12:57]  * dholbach exhausted his french skills :)
[12:57] <persia> s/merci/mercy/
[12:58] <zul> dholbach: try getting stuck in quebec with only high school french
[12:58] <dholbach> zul: I guess that'd surely help :)
[12:58] <mruiz> hi ScottK
[12:58] <dholbach> a deadly struggle for survival :)
[12:58] <persia> zul: That's quebeçois: a slightly different language :)
[12:59] <ScottK> persia: IME it's no more different than some of the regional variations in France.
[13:00] <zul> dholbach: especially when you have to go the bathroom
[13:00] <persia> ScottK: Likely true, but there are names for those as well.
[13:01] <cheguevara> dholbach, can i ask you about a problem I have with REVU
[13:01] <dholbach> cheguevara: just ask in here - we have a few REVU admins in here
[13:02] <cheguevara> basically my package appears in incomming
[13:02] <cheguevara> then goes to /dev/null :P
[13:02]  * Hobbsee has a look
[13:03] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: what did you last upload?
[13:03] <Hobbsee> and is LI Daobing here?
[13:03] <cheguevara> ktorrent-kde4
[13:04] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: are you in ubuntu-universe-contributors?
[13:04] <cheguevara> https://launchpad.net/~che-guevara-3
[13:05] <Hobbsee> and is David Cordero here?
[13:05] <cheguevara> seem to be
[13:05]  * Hobbsee resyncs the keyring
[13:06] <cheguevara> someone said it was done at 12 midnight, so I thought it'd be done
[13:06] <cheguevara> may be someone was wrong :P
[13:06]  * Fujitsu innovates, resyncing the Hobbsee.
[13:06] <Hobbsee> yeah, i dont think it is cron
[13:06]  * Hobbsee writes Fujitsu off
[13:06] <persia> cheguevara: I usually gets done at least once a day, but not at any fixed time (as far as I know)
[13:06] <persia> s/I/It/1
[13:07] <cheguevara> oh, right
[13:07] <cheguevara> wiki said its cron :P
[13:07] <persia> cheguevara: It once was :)
[13:07] <Hobbsee> it was on cron.
[13:11] <cheguevara> Hobbsee, should i try again now?
[13:12] <persia> dholbach: deleting in cron is maybe not ideal.  Perhaps forcibly rejecting in process_uploads would make more sense.
[13:12] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: no
[13:12] <persia> cheguevara: It takes about half an hour
[13:12] <cheguevara> oh lol
[13:12] <cheguevara> let me know :P
[13:12] <dholbach> persia: I didn't look at the source code, just assumed that there must be a graceful solution to this
[13:13] <persia> dholbach: There likely is: I just don't think it's delete.
[13:14] <dholbach> ok
[13:25] <Hobbsee> cheguevara: that shoudl be accepted now
[13:25] <cheguevara> right lets try
[13:26] <gpocentek> anyone familiar with aptpkg-perl?
[13:26] <gpocentek> I can't find a way to update the cache...
[13:28] <stani> persia: are you here?
[13:29] <persia> stani: Yes
[13:30] <cheguevara> Hobbsee, it worked!
[13:30] <Hobbsee> :)
[13:30]  * cheguevara bows to the Long Pointy Stick
[13:30] <cheguevara> thanks
[13:31] <stani> persia: two people tested the patch on hardy and confirmed it works
[13:31] <stani> so I was wondering when I could post a SRU request
[13:32] <stani> also Luca asked two change two things
[13:32] <stani> I was wondering if you agree with them
[13:32] <persia> stani: I'd suggest listening to Luca, who is a member of the stable release updates team for universe.  If you've two testers, it sounds like you're close.
[13:34] <stani> Ok, I'll follow his instructions. I just wanted to check with you.
[13:35] <persia> stani: No problems.  I'm really not the best person to ask about SRUs, but happy to point you in the right direction :)
[13:38] <RainCT> Heya
[13:38] <stani> persia: Your helpful attitude was really stimulating. So a big thanks to you!
[13:39] <persia> stani: Thanks for looking after your package downstream.  It's really appreciated when we have such direct communication with the software authors to ensure the best user experience.
[13:45] <RainCT> dholbach: hi. revision ubuntu2 on bug 176147 is to update the maintainer field as it wasn't changed in ubuntu1 (the Homepage field move is just a secondary change which of course I wouldn't expect to be merged for if the change from ubuntu1 is added to Debian's version)
[13:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176147 in usbmount "Update maintainer field in version 0.0.14.1" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176147
[13:45] <dholbach> RainCT: ah ok, I see
[14:06] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:08] <DarkSun88> Hi bddebian
[14:08] <bddebian> Heya DarkSun88
[14:08] <DarkSun88> :)
[14:09] <geser> Hi bddebian
[14:10] <bddebian> Hi geser
[14:29] <effie_jayx> hello all...
[14:33] <bddebian> Hello effie_jayx
[14:33] <effie_jayx> bddebian, I am merging today...
[14:33] <effie_jayx> what ? I still don't know
[14:34] <mok1> Hi effie_jayx, are you on schedule? :-)
[14:34] <effie_jayx> packages in MoM look too big for this little grasshoper
[14:34] <effie_jayx> mok1,  Trying hard to catch up
[14:35] <mok1> effie_jayx: My procedure for computing the length of a project: make your best estimate, then multiply by the number pi.
[14:35] <bddebian> hah
[14:35] <effie_jayx> mok1,  sounds like a good way
[14:35] <mok1> Always turns out to be pretty good :.-)
[14:35] <effie_jayx> mok1,  you mean gantt like ?
[14:36] <effie_jayx> I was a bit lazy I must admit :D
[14:36] <effie_jayx> but thing is I am traveling to conferences and It is crazy
[14:36] <mok1> effie_jayx: yes, except  I always have the gant chart in my head
[14:36] <effie_jayx> mok1,  cool :D
[14:36] <effie_jayx> I shall play around with gant later
[14:37] <mok1> effie_jayx: it would be cool if you published a gant chart :-D
[14:37] <mok1> effie_jayx: I dunno if it counts as MOTU-hopeful experience, but I made my first Debian upload yesterday...
[14:38] <effie_jayx> mok1, pretty big milestone :O
[14:39] <mok1> effie_jayx: well, it's only _my_ upload, I'm still waiting for a sponsor. When the package gets into Debian, I will call it a milestone...
[14:39] <mruiz> mok1, every step is important ;-)
[14:40] <mok1> mruiz: Ah, true
[14:40] <mok1> I have to admit, I've been holding back on that step
[14:40] <effie_jayx> mok1,  why?
[14:41] <mok1> effie_jayx: I've felt I had my hands full just learning to work with Ubuntu
[14:42] <mok1> ... and now I'm kinda happy to chat with the nice bunch of people I've gotten to know here on the channel
[14:42] <effie_jayx> ahh cool
[14:42] <effie_jayx> can anyone help me spot a good beginer merge?
[14:43] <mok1> universe or main?
[14:45] <mok1> effie_jayx: http://dad.dunnewind.net/vpnc/ should be easy, it's only a conflict in 00list
[14:46] <geser> effie_jayx: mgetty should be quite easy
[14:47] <effie_jayx> I shall give em a look now... and work on them over the afternoon
[15:38] <DaveMorris> whats the policy on lib packages having pkg-config files?
[15:39] <siretart> yay. rebuildd seems to work for me on gutsy!
[15:40] <mok1> DaveMorris: What do you mean?
[15:40] <geser> siretart: are you going to rebuild (the) universe?
[15:40] <siretart> geser: no. I've prepared a new ffmpeg, and now I'm rebuilding all reverse depends in unstable (using sbuild instead of pbuilder of course)
[15:40] <DaveMorris> I personally like pkg-config files for libs, and I'll create one, open a bug ticket and assign the fix for a lib I found which doesn't use it (wordnet) but I won't bother if people won't use it
[15:41] <siretart> DaveMorris: did you talk to upstream about the .pc file?
[15:42] <DaveMorris> not yet, should that be done in the 1st instance then?
[15:43] <mok1> DaveMorris:  pkgconfig is only one of several ways of doing it. Some libraries have a *-config binary (shell script)
[15:43] <DaveMorris> mok1: I'm aware of those, still prefer pkg-config
[15:44] <mok1> DaveMorris: It would be cool to have all libraries use a single standard. I also like pkgconfig
[15:44] <mok1> DaveMorris: It should be better integrated into GNU autotools, though
[15:44] <DaveMorris> is there plans for a single standard?
[15:45] <DaveMorris> pkg-config is quite well integrated into autotools though.  What more did you want?
[15:45] <mok1> DaveMorris: I dunno... pkgconfig comes out of the Gnome project, right?
[15:45] <DaveMorris> mok1: I don't know
[15:46] <mok1> DaveMorris: How so, integrated? I've never seen a macro that calls pkgconfig
[15:47] <DaveMorris> http://foss.it.brighton.ac.uk/epoch/por/trunk/configure.in
[15:47] <DaveMorris> use pkgconfig to get the libs, versions, cflags
[15:48] <DaveMorris> and stops the build if the version of libs aren't whats specified
[15:49] <mok1> DaveMorris: ah, you misunderstood me. I've often seen pkgconfig used like this, but no macro like AC_PKGCONFIG_CHECK([libusb], $has, $hasnot) or something
[15:49] <DaveMorris> which would check to see if libusb was installed?
[15:49] <mok1> exactly
[15:50] <mok1> and set variables and stuff
[15:50] <DaveMorris> PKG_CHECK_MODULES(ALL,libusb >= 0.1.10a libcpptest >= 1.0.2 gtkmm-2.4 >= 2.8.8 libglademm-2.4 >= 2.6.2 libxml++-2.6 >= 2.10.0)
[15:50] <DaveMorris> does that
[15:50]  * mok1 stands corrected
[15:51] <DaveMorris> and as you can see, you can specify versions as well
[15:51] <dfiloni> persia: ping
[15:51] <mok1> DaveMorris: you are 100% correct
[15:51]  * mok1 feels stupid
[15:52] <DaveMorris> can *-config do checks like that easily?
[15:52] <mok1> DaveMorris: You mean the shell scripts? In my exp. they often have exactly the same syntax
[15:53] <DaveMorris> and integration into autotools?
[15:53] <mok1> no
[15:53] <mok1> you have to run them inside `  `
[15:54]  * mok1 finds pkg.m4 implementing all pkg-config stuff in autotools
[15:54] <DaveMorris> I was sold on pkg-config when I started to learn C++ and autotools
[15:55] <mok1> DaveMorris: Yeah, and I could never understand why the man page never tells you in which library a function is sitting, and what other libraries you need to link with. I loved pkg-config when I first learned about it
[15:56] <slytherin> imbrandon: I give up. Batik errors seem to be infinite. I wonder how it is built in debian and what ll it contains.
[15:56] <mok1> DaveMorris: However, with several pkg-config calls, you can sometimes get duplicates
[15:56] <DaveMorris> afaik thats not a problem though
[15:57] <DaveMorris> just makes the compile line longer
[15:57] <mok1> DaveMorris: No, I guess, it just looks ugly
[15:57] <slytherin> imbrandon: The good part is I have learnt cdbs patch system & quilt basics and logged bug to move libavalon to universe. :-D
[15:58] <mok0> Ah, I feel my own self now
[16:06] <mruiz> hi all.. is Debian-Maintainer-Field Spec a valid change to remain in a merge?
[16:06] <pochu> If there are other changes, yes.
[16:07] <pochu> If it's the unique remaining change: no, request a sync
[16:07] <mruiz> thanks pochu
[16:07] <pochu> my pleasure :)
[16:53] <joejaxx> persia: are you around? :)
[16:57] <ScottK> joejaxx: Odds are he's sleeping now.
[16:58] <joejaxx> ScottK: ah ok
[16:59] <joejaxx> ScottK: any suggestions for the name of the package for the fedora directory server?
[16:59] <joejaxx> i was thinking maybe just fedora-ds
[16:59] <ScottK> Are you planning on packaging it or are you looking for it?
[17:00] <ScottK> If you're planning on packaging it, I'd suggest directory-server-fedora perhaps.
[17:00] <joejaxx> packaging :)
[17:00] <joejaxx> oh ok
[17:00] <joejaxx> i just thought it would be rather long
[17:00] <joejaxx> :P
[17:01] <joejaxx> bah that works
[17:01] <joejaxx> s/bah/but/g
[17:02] <ScottK> Personally, I think it's more important that package names be clear than that they be compact, but that's me.
[17:02] <joejaxx> yeah
[17:02] <joejaxx> normally i would i just thought that maybe it was a bit long
[17:02] <joejaxx> but i will go with that
[17:02] <joejaxx> shorter package names can also mean conflicts with future proposed packages
[17:03] <joejaxx> sort of like epiphany and epiphany-browser
[17:03] <joejaxx> :D
[17:03] <joejaxx> well that is a bad example
[17:05] <joejaxx> ScottK: thanks :)
[17:05] <ScottK> No problem.
[17:06] <ScottK> mdomsch: IIRC you have a DKMS upgrade pending.  You ought to look at the change the Keybuck just uploaded to Hardy and make sure you base you upgrade off that package.
[17:09] <effie_jayx> ok... here http://merges.ubuntu.com/m/mgetty/REPORT all I have to do is generate a debdiff and compare between the one I did and the one generated automatically ?
[17:11] <geser> effie_jayx: I usually start from the automatically generated merge, look what Ubuntu changes the packages currently has, what's still needed, check if it got correctly merged and write a changelog entry for the merge
[17:12] <geser> do a build-test in a pbuilder and double-check the new changes with a debdiff
[17:14] <bddebian> Is there anything like dpatch-edit-patch for quilt?
[17:17] <geser> bddebian: not directly, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources (see the second example for quilt)
[17:17] <geser> or the third example if you want to create a new patch
[17:18] <bddebian> Ah, hmm, thanks geser
[17:20] <effie_jayx> geser,  I checked debian/changelog... is there where I should be looking?
[17:29] <nxvl_work> norsetto: it's been time since i don't see you
[17:29] <nxvl_work> norsetto: how are things going?
[17:29] <norsetto> nxvl_work: heya! Had quite some connection problems
[17:30] <nxvl_work> oh
[17:30] <nxvl_work> i see
[17:30] <nxvl_work> i have had some hard days
[17:30] <nxvl_work> so i have been also a little offline
[17:30] <norsetto> nxvl_work:  hard at work only I hope
[17:31] <nxvl_work> yep
[17:31] <nxvl_work> some very busy ones
[17:31] <nxvl_work> with lots of deadlines
[17:31] <nxvl_work> but
[17:31] <nxvl_work> when you love your work, you love it
[17:32] <norsetto> nxvl_work: just checking out hardy now, so far so good ....
[17:34] <mok0> pwd
[17:34] <mok0> ls
[17:34] <mok0> clear
[17:34] <mok0> ls
[17:34] <mok0> Ooops, wrong focus ?
[17:35] <mruiz> mok0, ;-)
[17:35] <mok0> hehe
[17:48] <mdomsch> ScottK, thanks for the heads-up
[17:48] <ScottK> mdomsch: You're welcome.
[17:48] <mdomsch> how might I have noticed that if not for your warning?
[17:49] <ScottK> mdomsch: I noticed it on the hardy-changes RSS feed.
[17:50] <ScottK> http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/rss/hardy.xml
[17:51] <mdomsch> ScottK, thanks, I've subscribed to that too now
[17:51] <mdomsch> yeah, that'll be easy enough to roll back in
[17:51] <ScottK> mdomsch: No problem.  Feeds exist for all active Ubuntu releases if you're interested.
[17:52] <mok0> Is Debian contrib component somewhat like universe?
[17:53] <azeem> not that much
[17:53] <azeem> contrib contains free sofware, which depends on non-free software
[17:53] <mok0> What is it then?
[17:53] <mok0> Ah
[17:53] <azeem> it's also not officially supported
[17:53] <azeem> by Debian, AFAIK
[17:54] <mok0> Who maintains it?
[17:54] <azeem> Debian Developers
[17:54] <azeem> well, the line is blurry, really
[17:54] <ScottK> mok0: Both contrib and non-free are considered "Not part of Debian", but provided for convenience for people who need to use stuff that's not DFSG free on a Debian system.
[17:55] <mok0> So, more like multiverse
[17:56] <azeem> well stuff in contrib is DFSG, it's just useless without build or runtime dependencies on non-free software
[17:56] <azeem> e.g. KDE was in contrib back in the days when Qt wasn't free
[17:56] <mok0> I see
[17:57] <mok0> Just wondered whether I needed to include contrib in my new Sid pbuilder...
[17:57] <mok0> I guess not
[19:06] <geser> broonie: Hi, could you look at that build failure? it looks like a scons problem: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10891183/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-amd64.aqsis_1.2.0-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[19:15] <greg-g> what is the considerate amount of time to wait for a debian maintainer/ubuntu maintainer to update a package which fixes a bug (for any German using Alexandria) before you poke the maintainer again? :)
[19:16] <pochu> Ubuntu is mostly team maintained, so you can probably do it yourself
[19:16] <pochu> there are exceptions though...
[19:18] <greg-g> well, the reason I ask is because the package in question is maintained by the same person in both debian and ubuntu, and neither has been updated in a while
[19:18] <geser> greg-g: is the bug only files in Ubuntu or also in Debian?
[19:18] <mruiz> greg-g, wich package?
[19:18] <mruiz> s/wich/which
[19:18] <greg-g> both debian and ubuntu
[19:19] <greg-g> libamazon-ruby
[19:19] <greg-g> bug 174633
[19:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 174633 in ruby-amazon "alexandria 0.6.1 no german amazon search possible" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/174633
[19:19] <greg-g> debbug 455148
[19:19] <geser> greg-g: does a patch exist?
[19:20] <greg-g> apparently the upstream developer did "everything needed to update the package" (I don't know, I haven't packaged before) but here is what he supplied:
[19:20] <greg-g> http://alexandria.rubyforge.org/dependencies/ruby-amazon/
[19:22] <greg-g> would this count as a "bitesize" thing for new MOTUs?
[19:26] <greg-g> sidenote: it has only been 5 days since the bug was reported to debian and 6 days since it was reported in ubuntu, so I realize that it might be too soon to expect a response from the maintainer
[19:27] <pochu> It is, imho
[19:28] <pochu> but still it's team maintained in ubuntu, so if want to work on it you are free to do so
[19:28] <pochu> and it might be team maintained (pkg-ruby-extras) in Debian too.
[19:29] <greg-g> I personally have no desire right now to do packaging, I am focusing on triaging, but is this the type of thing that should go on the bitsize list of things for aspiring motus?
[19:30] <pochu> If it's easy, then yes.
[19:31] <somerville32> Can someone review the u-u-s. some of my stuff has been there for days :(
[19:34] <geser> somerville32: which ones?
[19:34]  * geser should work more often on the u-u-s queue again
[19:36] <somerville32> 1 was reviewed and I put up a new patch, 1 was reviewed and uploaded (but they must not have done it right because it isn't uploaded), and one hasn't been reviewed at all yet (and I just noticed there is a typo in the changelog, so I'm uploading a new debdiff now)
[19:36] <somerville32> For the first one mentioned, it has been 21 hours since I uploaded the new debdiff
[19:40] <somerville32> bug 175802, bug 175813, bug 175991
[19:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175802 in gfceu "Sponsor gfceu_0.6.0-0ubuntu2" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175802
[19:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175813 in catfish "Sponsor catfish_0.3-ubuntu2" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175813
[19:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175991 in ttb "Sponsor ttb_0.9.4-0ubuntu3" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175991
[19:40] <mruiz> geser, can you review bug 175998, please ?
[19:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175998 in mailping "Please merge mailping 0.0.4-1 (universe) from Debian (unstable)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175998
[19:41] <mruiz> and bug 176379...
[19:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176379 in monster-masher "Please sync monster-masher (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176379
[19:41] <alex-weej> if i have downloaded a source package, debuild'd it, then i make a source code change and "make" it, how can i get a deb out of it again?
[19:43] <geser> somerville32: re ttb: have you checked that python-gtk2 and python-glade2 is really needed in build-depends-indep? doesn't it build without those?
[19:44] <somerville32> geser, I haven't. I don't generally check to make sure all the build-deps specified by other people are actually required when I touch a package. Should I?
[19:45] <CyberMatt> weird situation here i'm working on getting a package into debian with a couple of friends and our sponser just droped off the face of the earth last time he was gone for four month and I Really want this in Ubuntu
[19:46] <somerville32> CyberMatt, What package?
[19:46] <slangasek> CyberMatt: what sponsor?
[19:46] <slangasek> ;)h
[19:46] <CyberMatt> inspircd Mario Iserl
[19:48] <slangasek> and he's disappeared? I'm pretty sure I saw him on IRC last week
[19:48] <CyberMatt> yea but he was idle for two days and this morning poof
[19:49] <CyberMatt> gone
[19:49] <CyberMatt> svn.debian.org/pkg-irc
[19:49] <CyberMatt> last time he did this he was gone June to October
[19:50] <geser> somerville32: usually it's not needed, but as it looks like ttb is only in Ubuntu it's nice to check for some other packaging errors from the past
[19:50] <somerville32> geser, k :)
[19:51] <somerville32> hrmph
[19:51] <somerville32> sbuild failed with 404s
[19:52] <geser> somerville32: especially when one updates a package to the current python policy it doesn't hurt to look if the python dependencies are all correct and needed
[19:52]  * somerville32 nods at geser.
[19:54] <CyberMatt> my partner says we should submit to ubuntu
[19:54] <dmb> i'm sure theres a valid reason for mario being gone, but thats not the point
[19:55] <somerville32> CyberMatt, nothing is stopping you
[19:55] <CyberMatt> REVU time!
[19:55] <CyberMatt> hehe
[19:56] <somerville32> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com hardy/main x11-common 1:7.3+7ubuntu2
[19:56] <somerville32>   404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.88.45 80]
[19:57] <pochu> CyberMatt: have you tried sending him a mail explaining the situation?
[19:57] <CyberMatt> i was just wondering if we would cause political trouble if we went that route
[19:57] <dmb> i'm sure mario is going to be back soon, the package is going to be uploaded into experimental sometimes this week
[19:57] <CyberMatt> dmb have you
[19:57] <dmb> CyberMatt: i talked to him yesterday
[19:57] <CyberMatt> ok then
[19:58] <dmb> he said he was going to look at the package, and if he had time upload it
[19:58] <dmb> but i think something happened, because he pinged out and never came back
[19:58] <imbrandon> if it goes to expirmental you'll have to explisitly ask for a sync
[19:58] <dmb> yeh, we would have to ask anyway
[19:58] <CyberMatt> we'll wait until after Christmas
[19:59] <dmb> imbrandon: whats the latest that the inspircd package can be pushed in for the LTS?
[19:59] <imbrandon> dmb untill featurefreeze
[19:59] <dmb> imbrandon: whens that?
[20:00] <imbrandon> note sure the exact date, check this
[20:00] <imbrandon> !releaseschedule
[20:00] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about releaseschedule - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[20:00] <imbrandon> err one sec
[20:00] <geser> mruiz: re mailping: your debdiff contains a changelog.dch.save file (new) and as this merge is special it would be nice if you could mention the version this merge "bases" on in your changelog entry (or the correct version number like in the previus entries). This make is easier to check if we are up-to-date with merging.
[20:01] <geser> dmb: FF is on Valentine's Day
[20:01] <imbrandon> dmb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
[20:01] <geser> Feb 14th, 2008
[20:02] <imbrandon> thanks geser
[20:02] <CyberMatt>  February 14
[20:02] <mruiz> thanks geser ... as we discussed before with persia and dholbach, it was an error with Debian version number
[20:02] <CyberMatt> thats why i'm worried
[20:02] <dmb> ah, we would definitely have it in by feb, the package is already finished, just need it checked by some more people
[20:03] <geser> mruiz: I've read it in the bug, therefore mention in the changelog the Debian version which got merged
[20:03] <imbrandon> rember though its to the point now you will have to ask for it to be imported
[20:03] <imbrandon> dmb: ^^
[20:03] <imbrandon> once uploaded to debian
[20:03] <CyberMatt> yes
[20:04] <dmb> imbrandon: yes
[20:04] <CyberMatt> so should we REVU in case
[20:04] <imbrandon> y?
[20:04] <dmb> imbrandon: should we wait until its in experimental (hopefully this week) then trying to get it imported?
[20:05] <imbrandon> push it to debian and then request a sync
[20:05] <imbrandon> dmb: yup
[20:05] <dmb> ok, sounds simple enough
[20:05] <somerville32> RAOF, Can you run apt-get update ?
[20:05] <imbrandon> its only a matter of asking, but it need to be done, auto sync is done as of today
[20:05] <dmb> ok
[20:06] <dmb> thanks for the information
[20:07] <imbrandon> np :)
[20:07]  * imbrandon goes for a nap
[20:07] <CyberMatt> and if Mario can't do it for some reason by say second week in January  ill do a REVU
[20:07] <imbrandon> bbiab
[20:08] <imbrandon> CyberMatt: that sounds like a sound plan
[20:09] <CyberMatt> I'm just worried that the Release cycle differences  will come and bite us on the butt
[20:11] <CyberMatt> come to rather
[20:12] <grantgm> can someone point me to a resource where I can read about requesting a package be imported from debian? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess seems to be talking about syncing packages that already exist in Ubuntu, rather than importing new ones. Does the same process apply?
[20:16] <geser> grantgm: the process is the same
[20:18] <grantgm> and is there any variation in process if the package should be delt with by a specific team (in this case MOTU Science)?
[20:18] <broonie> geser: Hrm. Looks like they're peering into SCons internals that have been removed from the warning. Not sure that'd cause the infinite recursion, I'd need to look at the package for that.
[20:20] <geser> broonie: thanks
[20:22] <broonie> FWIW I'm about to upload a new SCons to Debian (upstream finally did another release of their own)
[20:22] <geser> grantgm: no, but you could ask the MOTU Science team if they're interested in it, e.g. being a bug contact for the package
[20:34] <grantgm> thanks geser. will do
[20:34] <somerville32> geser, Ok, new debdiff coming up
[20:35] <geser> somerville32: for ttb? someone uploaded it already
[20:37] <somerville32> geser, lol. should I do another upload then?
[20:37] <somerville32> geser, those build-deps aren't needed
[20:37] <geser> if you like
[20:54] <broonie> geser: FWIW I can reproduce on Debian.
[20:55] <somerville32> geser, are you looking at bug 175802?
[20:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 175802 in gfceu "Sponsor gfceu_0.6.0-0ubuntu2" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/175802
[20:58] <geser> somerville32: shouldn't build-depending on python be enough as gfceu is a python app and doesn't seem to need python headers?
[20:59] <somerville32> geser, thats what I thought but once again I trusted the previous uploaded. I'll check it out and upload new debdiff if you're right
[21:01] <geser> somerville32: I'm just test-building with this change and your debdiff
[21:01] <somerville32> I also did
[21:01] <somerville32> built fine
[21:03] <geser> somerville32: is it ok for you when I upload your debdiff with this change?
[21:04] <somerville32> geser, What modifications did you make to the changelog?
[21:06] <geser> somerville32: I only updated your line to "- Added build-depend on python" and did the same change to debian/rules. That's all.
[21:06] <somerville32> geser, ok, sounds good :)
[21:06] <mruiz> geser, mailping is ready for a review ;-)
[21:07] <geser> somerville32: uploaded gfceu
[21:08] <somerville32> geser, thank you muchly
[21:10] <Ubulette> hmm, just got a fsck on all my disks. "primary superblock different from backup, check forced". is that a known issue ?
[21:10] <Ubulette> and hal is still broken
[21:10] <Ubulette> bad day
[21:11] <geser> Ubulette: I've seen this too after my update to hardy today
[21:14] <geser> mruiz: uploaded
[21:14] <mruiz> thanks geser !
[21:18] <norsetto> ubulette: am I wrong or the plugins for xulrunner must go in /usr/lib/xulrunner/plugins and those for xulrunner-1.9 in /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/plugins ?
[21:19] <Ubulette> norsetto, correct
[21:22] <norsetto> Ubulette: okki, thx
[21:31] <mruiz> effie_jayx, are you working on vpnc ?
[21:32] <effie_jayx> no
[21:33] <effie_jayx> I'm on mgetty
[21:33] <mruiz> thanks... I will do it ;-)
[21:34] <slangasek> bluekuja_: hi, did you see my question yesterday about the Architecture: string on fische?
[21:35] <effie_jayx> mruiz,  could you give me a hand with mine
[21:35] <effie_jayx> :S
[21:35] <effie_jayx> hehehe
[21:35] <mruiz> effie_jayx, sure, but I'm leaving now... :-(
[21:36] <effie_jayx> mruiz,  tomorrow?
[21:36] <effie_jayx> I ma reading stuff on merges
[21:40] <guest22> Any MOTUs here who might be willing to review a recently uploaded package ("photoml", at  http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=953)?
[21:43] <mruiz> bye all
[21:44] <slangasek> bluekuja_: perhaps you're not here and that's just your idle IRC client playing games. :)
[21:44] <norsetto> guest22: you shouldn't need usr/bin in dirs
[21:47] <norsetto> guest22: for new packages the applicable standard should be 3.7.3
[21:50] <TheMuso> Hey folks.
[21:50] <norsetto> guest22: and your package fails to build
[21:52] <norsetto> hey TheMuso
[21:52] <guest22> norsetto: Thanks for the comments.
[21:52] <guest22> norsetto: On what environment does it fail to build? I tested it in pbuilder, and encountered no problems.
[21:53] <norsetto> guest22: pbuilder
[21:53] <slangasek> my packages never fail to build, sometimes they just have alternate endings
[21:54] <norsetto> slangasek: hehe
[21:54] <guest22> norsetto: Strange. Perhaps some dependencies have changed since I tested it.
[21:54] <norsetto> guest22: let me pastebin the log
[21:54] <norsetto> !pastebin
[21:54] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[21:55] <norsetto> guest22: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48274/
[21:57] <guest22> norsetto: Got it. Thanks again - I'll investigate the problem and fix the other issues you raised.
[21:57] <norsetto> guest22: seems like you miss some build-deps (perl modules)
[21:59] <norsetto> guest22: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48275/ I pasted the relevant portion of the build log
[21:59] <guest22> norsetto: Perhaps - I'm not sure. BTW, if I remove usr/bin from dirs, that file will be empty. Do I remove it, or leave it as an empty file?
[21:59] <norsetto> guest22: remove it
[22:00] <guest22> norsetto: Will do. Thanks again.
[22:00] <norsetto> guest22: np
[22:01] <norsetto> guest22: you should also move the homepage to its own field
[22:03] <Flare183> ok if i am going to package something new to the repos. should I add it to the hardy repos or the gutsy repos?
[22:04] <somerville32> Flare183, You can only to the hardy repos
[22:04] <Flare183> ok
[22:05] <norsetto> guest22: also, this symlink (/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL) in hardy points to the GPL3 (your license is GPL 2)
[22:05] <guest22> norsetto: In the control file, "Homepage:" should now be a field in its own right, rather than part of the description? Does this just mean the initial space should be removed, or should it move to before "Description:"?
[22:06] <norsetto> guest22: move it in the source stanza, like Homepage: URL
[22:07] <guest22> norsetto: It can be directly below "Source:", for example?
[22:07] <norsetto> guest22: anywhere there, usually people put if before standards-version but you are free to choose what you like
[22:08] <guest22> norsetto: Understood. Is this a change between 3.7.2 and 3.7.3? (I have other packages that were accepted with the same structure as the package currently on REVU.)
[22:08] <norsetto> guest22: yes, IIRC is between 3.7.2. and 3.7.2.2
[22:09] <guest22> norsetto: Good to know. Is there a document on the web listing the changes from 3.7.2 to 3.7.3?
[22:09] <norsetto> guest22: well, the policy :-)
[22:10] <geser> TheMuso: have you seen that brltty (main) is in depwait on dh-lisp (universe)?
[22:11] <guest22> norsetto: Pity, a list of changes would be useful.
[22:14] <norsetto> guest22: I would have thought this had it: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/d/debian-policy/debian-policy_3.7.3.0/changelog but it doesn't seem complete
[22:15] <geser> guest22, norsetto: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/12/msg00001.html
[22:15] <geser> perhaps also check /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz as suggested by that mail
[22:16] <guest22> norsetto and geser: OK, thanks, I'll take a look at those documents.
[22:16] <Flare183> What does "Upstream Author" mean?
[22:17] <norsetto> geser: its true that doesn't cost much to add a list of changes in the document itself .... bad policy on the policy
[22:17] <geser> Flare183: the person(s) who wrote the software
[22:17] <Flare183> oh ok
[22:17] <macd> imbrandon, you here?
[22:20] <TheMuso> geser: Ouch, no I didn't, thanks.
[22:20] <TheMuso> geser: My sponsor should have caught that.
[22:31] <TheMuso> somerville32: ok
[22:37] <somerville32> bryce, ping. I still don't see it :(
[22:40] <bryce> somerville32: hrm, one minute
[22:47] <bryce> somerville32: I've re-uploaded it
[22:58] <bryce> somerville32: ok, catfish was accepted.  Should be building now and available soon.
[23:00] <somerville32> ummm...
[23:01] <somerville32> Why does it say you uploaded it?
[23:04] <somerville32> bryce, Why did you make yourself the signer of the changelog? Now the upload won't show up in my list :S
[23:06] <_MMA_> somerville32: Just wondering, does it matter?
[23:07] <somerville32> _MMA_, Yes.
[23:07] <Fujitsu> _MMA_: It does. Bodies like the MC look at upload lists.
[23:07] <_MMA_> So its about personal recognition?
[23:29] <Ubulette> persia, I don't remember, were you interested by reviewing the changes you've asked me for seamonkey ? or can i just push to a sponsor ?
[23:33] <bryce> somerville32: because your patch didn't apply against the rules file, so I had to fix it up.
[23:34] <bryce> somerville32: sorry, I assumed your priority was getting the changes in rather than building credit.  I don't normally assist with sponsoring, so didn't know that was a need.
[23:35] <somerville32> bryce, It isn't a problem but if thats the case you forgot to note in the changelog your changes
[23:37] <bryce> somerville32: actually there were no changes to mention.  just the order of how things were applied by the patch.
[23:37] <somerville32> :S
[23:40] <somerville32> How many uploads should I have under my belt before feeling comfortable to approach the MC?
[23:41] <bryce> I think I had a few dozen
[23:41] <LaserJock> afternoon all
[23:41] <bryce> hmm, well a few dozen non-trivial ones
[23:43] <bryce> but I wasn't looking so much at count, as breadth, so I wanted to wait until I'd created a package from scratch, done a significant package (xserver, l-r-m), and handled some sru's, mir's, etc. before applying
[23:43] <LaserJock> somerville32: I've always thought a good way to know is to think about if you truly feel confident that you can handle uploading to Universe without supervision and sponsoring is just getting in the way of progress
[23:44] <LaserJock> i.e. you are functioning as a MOTU, except you have to have a sponsor
[23:44] <somerville32> Well, I fully intend to continue to contribute to Xubuntu and soon Edubuntu
[23:45] <LaserJock> somerville32: good :-)
[23:45] <LaserJock> oh, and make sure your key is signed ;-)
[23:45] <somerville32> haha :P
[23:48] <LaserJock> man, I'll be lucky to graduate with these blockheads at the graduate school >:/
[23:49] <LaserJock> I got an email today that they lost some of my paperwork ... again
[23:51] <somerville32> hehe
[23:51] <LaserJock> I've now sent them my Program of Study *4* times and my Change of Advisory Committee 2 times
[23:52] <pwnguin> send it certified mail ;)
[23:55] <LaserJock> pwnguin: well, a couple times I've hand delivered it