=== MenZa is now known as kii
=== kii is now known as Kii
=== Kii is now known as MenZa
somerville32RAOF, I keep getting 404s when I build :(00:09
=== MenZa is now known as Kii
=== Kii is now known as MenZa
wolfganglook that- http://wolfgang-city.myminicity.com/00:15
* somerville32 sighs.00:17
somerville320.3-0ubuntu2 IS listed on +packages for some reason (and now 0.3-0ubuntu1 is gone).00:17
Fujitsusomerville32: That's LP magic.00:18
FujitsuIt's because you're the maintainer.00:18
FujitsuAnd bug #125987.00:20
ubotuLaunchpad bug 125987 in soyuz "Some uploads missing from +packages" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12598700:20
LaserJockis there any way to check why a package is uninstallable without actually installing it?01:56
slangasekrun something like edos's software over the archive? :)01:59
minghuaLaserJock: Does "ask someone else to test installing it" count? :-P02:13
LaserJockminghua: no, not really02:20
LaserJockI don't mind doing it in general02:20
LaserJockbut some of my edubuntu metapackages show up02:20
LaserJockseems like qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck has what I want02:23
somerville32LaserJock, want to do a quick/super-fast sponsorship? :]02:25
LaserJockhmm, depends ;-)02:25
LaserJocksomerville32: what's up?02:26
minghuaLaserJock: I thought debcheck only checks dependency-related un-installable problems, and it can't check maintainer script related un-installable problems.02:28
somerville32LaserJock, bug #176467 but I've got a new debdiff coming up in a sec02:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 176467 in gnomescan "Sponsor gnomescan_0.4.1-0ubuntu4" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17646702:28
minghuaAm I wrong?02:29
LaserJockminghua: sounds reasonable02:29
LaserJockwe'd need like piuparts for a full check I think02:29
somerville32LaserJock, uploaded.02:30
minghuaLaserJock: I think so.  But wasn't there an email recently about piupart testing for the whole archive?02:30
LaserJocksomerville32: hmm, that seems like stuff that should be done upstream02:36
somerville32LaserJock, How so?02:36
LaserJocksomerville32: why should we be maintaining that diff?02:37
somerville32LaserJock, the diff is in debian/02:37
somerville32   * debian/watch: Created watchfile02:38
somerville32   * debian/changelog: Fixed encoding issue.02:38
LaserJockbut Debian should have that, not us02:38
somerville32LaserJock, Look at the version of the package02:38
LaserJockheh ...02:39
LaserJockthen my question's gonna be, why isn't this package in Debian? ;-)02:39
somerville32LaserJock, I dunno. Persia wants all packages unique to Ubuntu to have watchfiles02:40
somerville32so I'm just doing his bidding :P02:40
=== ScottK2 is now known as ScottK
somerville32LaserJock, Did you unsubscribe u-u-s?02:48
LaserJockcause I'm gonna upload it02:48
* Fujitsu thinks a per-package whiteboard would be nice.02:49
LaserJockyeah, I said that a long time ago ...02:50
persiaUbulette: I tend to be very team-focused.  Please feel free to ask any sponsor for a review after adjusting for my changes, or for any questions you may have.  If I'm around, I'll also answer, and once it turns up again as oldest in FIFO, I'll hit it again.02:56
Ubulettepersia, nm, asac sponsored it02:57
persiaUbulette: Excellent.  That's efficiency: when he's busy, I review, and when I'm busy, he uploads.02:57
Ubuletteefficient, depends. i've done those changes ~5 days ago. but nm, i'm probably too demanding.03:00
somerville32LaserJock, how goes it?03:03
LaserJocksomerville32: done03:04
persiaUbulette: More efficient than waiting for me to look at it again :)03:04
somerville32LaserJock, How long ago?03:04
somerville32LaserJock, I don't see it03:05
LaserJocklike a minute03:05
ScottKIf there's anyone about (like maybe Ste03:12
ScottKStevenK) who know about Perl stuff....  I'm looking for a point to docs on how to add POD documentation to a Perl package (upstream, not Debian packaging)03:12
persiaScottK: Do you mean just adding the POD clauses to the source?03:14
persiaOr do you mean extracting it for export to other tools?03:15
ScottKAdding POD clauses to the source.03:15
persiaScottK: man perlpod03:15
ScottKpersia: Thanks.03:15
persiaScottK: There may be some magic I don't understand to make that useful :)03:16
ScottKOK.  Well it's a start.03:16
emberi've got a few packages on queue if anyone wanna check03:17
emberbug #17446703:17
ubotuLaunchpad bug 174467 in gnome-schedule "Please sponsor gnome-schedule-1.2.1 into Hardy" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17446703:17
persiaember: By my count, you're currently at spot 17 in the FIFO queue.  Shouldn't be terribly long.03:20
emberheh that one have 10 days, seb already reviewed but forgot to upload it03:21
persiaember: The way I count, a review or comment resets, which skews things for cases like that :(03:22
emberhumpfh, lol.03:23
LaserJockpersia: do you think it'd be reasonable to have a PTS-like interface on qa.ubuntuwire.com?03:24
persiaLaserJock: Could you expand on that a little?03:24
LaserJockwell, rather than having lists of packages and looking by "issue"03:25
persia(more specifically, explain how it differs from packages.ubuntu.com or launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/foo)03:25
LaserJockI'd like to put in a package name and see all the available info03:25
LaserJockumm, we none of those have QA03:25
persiaLaserJock: Ah, so you want to see info about FTBFS, lintian, NBS, etc from a per-package overview page?03:26
FujitsuLike http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?03:26
persiaLaserJock: That makes sense.  If you can get a POC running on people.ubuntuwire.com, I don't see any reason it can't later get included on the QA page.03:26
LaserJockFujitsu: pretty much yeah03:27
LaserJockpersia: POC?03:27
crimsunproof of concept.03:27
persiaLaserJock: Proof-of-concent03:28
LaserJockoh, right03:28
persiaLaserJock: Also, I'd personally prefer limiting that list in most cases to Ubuntu-unique & orphaned packages, as I don't think we yet have the resources to chase all the QA stuff in Debian (NBS & FTBFS stuff aside)03:28
LaserJockpersia: all I want is the stuff we already have on qa.ubuntuwire.com03:29
LaserJockjust on a per/package basis03:29
persiaLaserJock: That's just a pointers page.  Half the stuff is LP or p.u.c, and the other half scripts that point to different subsets of the archive.  There's no central organisation.03:30
LaserJockthat's what I'm getting at basically03:30
minghuapersia: For example, http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/scim.html, if you don't know what PTS is exactly.03:30
persiaminghua: Yep: it's my primary source of info about Debian packages :)03:31
minghuapersia: It pretty much has all the links related to a certain package.03:31
minghuapersia: Okay, just to be sure you are LaserJock are talking about the same thing...03:31
persiaminghua: At issue is that it's a big effort, and in many ways duplicates Debian.  I'd prefer to see us concentrate on the non-Debian stuff and the broken-when-imported-to-Ubuntu stuff.03:31
LaserJockpersia: all I'm talking about is data we *already* have on qa.ubuntuwire.com03:32
guest22Any MOTUs here who would be willing to review a newly uploaded package - "photoml" at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=998? (This upload corrects the problems pointed out by norsetto earlier today.)03:33
persiaLaserJock: Right, but as I said, half of that is hosted by Canonical, and the rest is all separate scripts.  If someone were to organise it, and generate a sample (people.ubuntuwire.com might be a good place), and people found it useful, I don't see any reason not to add another link on the QA page.03:34
LaserJockpersia: right03:34
LaserJockdo we have a list of where the scripts are maintained?03:35
persiaLaserJock: For UW-hosted stuff, Fujitsu does UEHS, debcheck, lintian, and MDT.  I think geser adopted FTBFS, and ajmitch does RCbugs.  For the rest, I'm not sure, but I think pitti does NBS, keybuk does MoM, pitti does SRUs, and mvo does conflict-checker (although I may be mistaken)03:38
persia(and LP stuff is just special searches)03:39
crimsun(I think Steven does NBS.)03:40
crimsunSteve, that is.03:41
persiacrimsun: manages the NBS generation script?  Thanks for the correction.03:41
persiaLucidFox: No need to mention that something is in incoming.d.o in a sync request: between U-U-S and U-A delays, it almost certainly won't be by the time the request gets processed.03:43
imbrandonhrm, a PTS like interface on a per package basis would be nice03:46
cheguevaraimbrandon, just in case you didn't notice there are 2 patches on the novell bugzilla that need to be applied, sorry i didn't make it clear03:47
imbrandoncheguevara: i seen that, thanks03:47
cheguevarakk, just checking :P03:47
LaserJockimbrandon: it'd be really nice if Launchpad did it for us03:48
imbrandonLaserJock: you can also cat the apache config for qa.uw.c on orko to see where the scripts are housed, it should be readable03:48
imbrandonjust fyi03:48
persiaLaserJock: Yes, but LP would have to have all the other bits as well, or be linking outside LP.03:48
imbrandonLaserJock: it would be really nice but i dont count on LP to provide anything other than whats already there, we cant modify it when needed etc03:49
imbrandonand realy actualy against adding things to it untill it is made floss03:50
imbrandonand stablized03:50
persiaimbrandon: That's not fair to the LP developers.  They do make changes, and some of those changes are helpful.  Doesn't mean we wait before writing other tools.03:50
imbrandonyea sorta heh ...03:51
LaserJockpersia, imbrandon: I know I'm just saying that if they want to support distros these kinds of tools would be nice03:52
imbrandonLaserJock: definately03:52
persiaLaserJock: Agreed.  File some wishlist bugs or write some specs :)03:52
LaserJockhmm, does apt-cacher handle multiple releases?03:53
ScottKimbrandon: Of course there's the things we rely on in LP that LP developers unknown to us consider bugs and take away.03:54
LaserJockor any apt caching app03:54
imbrandonLaserJock: a mirror or squid probably, i doubt others03:54
minghuaLaserJock: I know apt-proxy does.03:55
LaserJockI've got 3 machines at home and with all the pbuilders and chroots I'm wasting a lot of time/bandwidth03:55
persiaLaserJock: The web tools do, the local tools don't.03:55
FujitsuI use apt-cacher, and it works fine over multiple releases.03:55
minghuaLaserJock: I'm not sure it qualifies your "apt caching app" though.03:55
FujitsuIf I were to tell it to do Debian too, it would probably get mighty confused, but that particular instance doesn't do Debian stuff.03:56
minghuaIs there recently any discussion about updating texlive-base in gutsy?03:56
ScottKminghua: IIRC it was mentioned on #ubuntu-devel earlier today.03:57
* persia thinks that was for a sync for hardy03:57
LaserJockminghua: no why?03:57
minghuaScottK: Thanks, I'll go read the log.03:57
persiaLaserJock: ML discussion on u-d-d about it being broken03:57
minghuaLaserJock: bug 17456903:58
ubotuLaunchpad bug 174569 in texlive-bin "postinst failure during gutsy security update" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17456903:58
minghuaScottK: It was a different issue on #ubuntu-devel earlier, unfortunately.04:01
ScottKminghua: Sorry for the distraction then.04:01
LaserJockminghua: what was the problem earlier?04:02
minghuaScottK: No problem, at least it gives hints who care about texlive... :-)04:02
minghuaLaserJock: Hardy issues, bug 176411, for instance.04:02
ubotuLaunchpad bug 176411 in texlive-bin "[Sync request] Sync texlive-bin (2007.dfsg.1-2) from Debian (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17641104:02
LaserJockI have such a love-hate relationship with TeX04:02
LaserJockI'm not sure we can SRU all of -1104:04
minghuaLaserJock: I think I can cherry-pick the patch if there is interest for a SRU.04:04
minghuaIt will be quite a PITA to test, though...04:05
LaserJockseems like we can't go a release without breaking something in TeX04:05
* minghua doesn't even have texlive installed on his gutsy.04:05
LaserJockI do for my dissertation04:05
* minghua writes papers on his Debian. :-)04:06
imbrandonugh, 9 to 12 inches of snow called for tonight over the next 12 hours04:07
imbrandonfun fun fun04:07
* persia misses snow04:08
* imbrandon dosent04:08
* Fujitsu does too. No snow here in... well, we had a tiny bit about a decade ago.04:08
* imbrandon is suprised Fujitsu rembers a decade ago :)04:09
DarkMageZimbrandon, what's this snow you speak of?04:09
* minghua misses snow as well.04:13
guest22Since my previous request seems to have been made during the middle of a discussion, let me try again. Any MOTU here willing to review a recently uploaded package ("photoml")?04:22
somerville32guest22, I'm not a MOTU but I'll review for you04:23
guest22somerville32: thanks - I'd appreciate your comments.04:26
=== asac_ is now known as asac
tritiumhi jsgotangco04:42
StevenKScottK: Do you still need help?04:43
ScottKStevenK: I think persia gave me enough of a hint to at least give it a shot.  Thanks.04:44
persiaStevenK: Are you maintaining NBS now?04:44
StevenKpersia: I'm doing NBS stuff, yes04:50
persiaStevenK: I was more talking about the generation scripts, rather than the work described, but if the answer is still yes, I'd be curious if you'd find http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~dktrkranz/NBS/ (or extensions thereof) useful.04:51
StevenKI'll have a poke. I've written my own tools anyway. :-)04:53
persiaStevenK: Do you have a pointer to your tools?04:53
StevenKNo, they're local, and I'm not really comfortable enough with them to have other people using them.04:54
persiaStevenK: Fair enough :)04:54
StevenKThey work for me since they're written to deal with the way I work.04:54
* persia encourages all contributors to add a Debian bug task when the bug is also submitted to debian.05:16
=== gouki_ is now known as gouki
bluefoxicythis crappy printer config...05:31
* bluefoxicy goes to get the old one05:31
bluefoxicygnome-cups-ui actually works ~_~05:31
bluefoxicygnome-cups-manager rather05:32
bluefoxicyoh THAT was the problem, stupid system-config-printer PAUSED MY PRINTER and doesn't tell you that it's paused05:33
bluefoxicyremind me again WHY this worthless crap was put in Gutsy in place of something that actually works?05:33
bluefoxicylooks like it has the ability to configure a bunch of options like paper margins and such that I don't see a need for (that's openoffice's job), and also (uniquely) to configure the printer to always print classified/top secret/etc banners (my house isn't a cleared facility, if I need to print something classified here something is wrong)05:36
joejaxxwho is steven langasek?05:36
persiajoejaxx: One of the archive-admins05:36
ScottKjoejaxx and persia: He's the Ubuntu release manager05:36
ScottKNot actually an archive admin.05:37
ScottKAlso vorlon in Debian.05:37
joejaxxwhat is his irc nick?05:37
ScottKslangasek: joejaxx is looking for you.05:37
persiaScottK: https://launchpad.net/~vorlon/+participation05:37
joejaxxoh no i was not really i was just wondering who has was05:38
DoubleDavegood evening05:38
joejaxxsince he was doing release engineering for ubuntu05:38
persiajoejaxx: Long-time release manager for Debian, now also doing release management for Ubuntu.05:38
joejaxxoh ok05:38
persiagood evening DoubleDave05:39
joejaxxi do not feel so well :\05:40
DoubleDavehave a couple of questions about lintian if anyone can lend some advice05:40
persiaDoubleDave: You'll do best to just ask the questions :)05:40
joejaxxpersia: i think i am going to go for motu next release cycle05:40
joejaxxHobbsee: minghua hello :)05:41
persiajoejaxx: Cool!05:41
DoubleDavek i'm building a deb package for  ubuntu to eventually go into the cononical repo05:41
minghuaHi joejaxx.05:41
DoubleDaverunning lintian on it though reports that there is a file in an unusual directory /opt05:41
DoubleDavemy whole package is being installed into opt05:41
persiaDoubleDave: Ubuntu doesn't generally use anything in /opt.  Why are you installing there?05:42
DoubleDaveseems trivial that I would get an error from lintian regarding this05:42
DoubleDavepersia: just to keep the users system clean I suppose05:43
persiaDoubleDave: That's why we package things.  It allows software to be installed in the default locations, and cleanly uninstalled later.05:43
DoubleDavedo you know if they will reject the package because of that?05:43
Hobbseeheya joejaxx!05:43
persiaDoubleDave: I would, although I can't speak for everyone.05:43
DoubleDavewell its a custom package its our own software so that just where we started installing it on other systems05:44
DoubleDaveim used to slackware so the whole debian policy is a little strange to me I guess05:45
persiaDoubleDave: For unpackaged software, /opt can be a real benefit.  Once it gets packaged, the inconveniences of /opt outweigh the benefits.05:45
DoubleDavepersia: not arguing here just curious. what would be inconvenient about it?05:46
persiaWith an /opt configuration, the user must reconfigure some of their basic utilities to use that configuration, which is lots easier than trying to individually deal with the random files all over the place.  Once the user can use a package manager, there is no need for the user to care where the binaries are kept, so it's best to make it so they don't need to reset their $PATH, etc.05:47
minghuapersia: I'm pretty sure packages that install to /opt will be rejected, violating FHS and stuff, you know.05:47
persiaminghua: I'd tend to agree.05:48
LaserJockaccording to FHS, "/opt is reserved for the installation of add-on application software packages."05:48
DoubleDavewhat would be considered ad on and what is FHS?05:48
DoubleDavesorry can you tell im a newb05:48
persiaLaserJock: I guess the question is whether a given package should be considered "add-on".  I believe that once it is packaged in the default package manager, it's no longer "add-on".05:48
persiaDoubleDave: Just new to Debian policies :)05:48
DoubleDavethe package I'm building I would consider add on05:49
LaserJockDoubleDave: no problem, FHS is Filesystem Hierarchy Standard05:49
LaserJockDoubleDave: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPACKAGES05:49
DoubleDavepersia: yes and I must admit I've been a bit lazy about reading05:49
DoubleDavethanks for your help everyone05:50
LaserJockI've seen /opt/ used for binary 3rd party software and for software that will conflict with existing system software05:50
DoubleDaveI'll read that link Laser05:50
StevenKLaserJock: Ponies!05:51
persiaLaserJock: I'd even recommend it as an alternative to /usr/local when it's not really local for source-available software being installed manually.  For conflicts, there's Priority: extra05:51
LaserJockpersia: for co-existing conflicting software05:51
LaserJocki.e. KDE4 alongside KDE305:52
joejaxxlol ponies05:52
persiaLaserJock: If it can co-exist, it doesn't conflict.  Now, about the status of the Equestrian Academy....05:52
=== CyberMatt is now known as Matt|sleep
LaserJockpersia: it can only exist in a different part of the filesystem05:54
LaserJockso it *would* be conflicting if it were to not be installed in /opt/05:54
persiaLaserJock: So the heap of kde4 packages that just went through NEW all install to /opt?05:54
* persia wants a different example05:55
LaserJockthey've separated by /usr/lib/kde{3,4}05:55
LaserJockbut I *have* seen it done that way for KDE4&305:56
persiaLaserJock: Right, which makes sense, and doesn't require /opt.  I can't think of a case where any package that would be in the archives by default should use /opt.05:56
LaserJockno, it shouldn't05:56
persiaOn the other hand, I can see many cases where an administrator would prefer /opt to /usr/local as an installation target.05:57
LaserJockI'm just saying that's often a case where /opt is used05:57
LaserJockLTSP uses /opt05:57
LaserJockfor the client chroots05:57
persiaThat seems odd to me.  I'd have expected something under /var.05:58
DoubleDavek im back with another one05:58
DoubleDaveverry good link by the way laser05:59
LaserJockDoubleDave: well, that is a widely accepted standard for *nix OSs05:59
DoubleDavepersia: you mentioned trying to keep the user from change their path correct05:59
persiaDoubleDave: By way of example.  There are many other things that may need adjustment to use /opt06:00
DoubleDavethe package im makeing installs postgres, php, apache into opt so that it doesnt disturb any of that software already running on the users system06:00
persiaDoubleDave: Why can't you use the system postgres, php, and apache?06:00
DoubleDaveit runs post gres with its own socket file under opt along with apach listening on a different port06:01
DoubleDavewould that be an exception06:01
persiaLaserJock: Reading again, I'm still not sure about /opt for LTSP, but I can't figure out where it would go, so I'll stop complaining.06:01
persiaDoubleDave: Why does it need to do that?06:01
LaserJockpersia: I'm guessing that's how it ended up there06:01
* persia notes that /var/lib/ would be right, if it weren't for the strange restriction to the local system.06:02
DoubleDavepersia: guess now that you ask im not to sure that it does its just the way my partner built it06:02
persiaDoubleDave: OK.  At this point, I think more context is required.  Is there a URL that provides information about the application?06:03
DoubleDaveyes nullbound.com06:04
DoubleDavepersia: its downloadable now in tar.gz form that is executable06:04
DoubleDaveit installs to opt06:04
DoubleDavein my opinion its not the cleanest installer06:05
DoubleDavebut it works well06:05
persiaDoubleDave: So basically, this software is installed on a dedicated appliance, watches the network for stuff, and provides reports?06:06
DoubleDaveyes for the most part06:06
DoubleDaveit should be installed on a dedicated machine06:06
joejaxxprobably do not need to install to /opt then ;)06:06
LaserJockso for you using /opt is a convenience06:07
persiaDoubleDave: OK.  Personally, I believe that in such a case, it's best to have the promiscuous port on a secondary network, and use default services on the management network (which is presumably protected by other means).06:07
LaserJockit allows you to just drop in on many different distros without worrying about peculuarities06:07
DoubleDavesorry its moving pretty fast in here... Yes conveniance LaserJock as well as cleanlyness06:07
persiaAs a result, I'd strongly suggest using the system default services on the system default ports on the management interface (and nothing on the promiscuous interface).06:07
DoubleDaveor so I thought06:07
persiaThis means your software only needs to do its thing, and you can rely on the distribution for the updates to the system software, reducing your support overhead.06:08
LaserJockDoubleDave: of course there are pros and cons06:08
persiaFurther, I'd recommend not using /opt.  Given that this would be the primary service installed on the target machine, there's no reason to keep it separate once it has been integrated with package management.06:09
LaserJockif you're gonna go to the trouble of making a package and you know it's gonna be for a Debian/Ubuntu system06:09
LaserJockthen integration with the existing distro packages can be a bonus06:09
DoubleDavetrying to keep up here. lol06:10
joejaxxanyone else here have experience with the fedoa-ds source?06:10
persiaDoubleDave: Also, I'd add some documentation & support for a separate management network to your site & software: trying to manage a system over a monitored promiscuous port can be exceedingly annoying for large installations.06:10
joejaxxi am trying to figure out whether i should create one source package or multiple ones06:11
joejaxxoh nevermind06:11
joejaxxone source package does not make any sense06:11
DoubleDavepersia: is there another channel perhaps that I is a little quiter im having a hard time here sorry06:11
* StevenK adds to the noise.06:12
persiajoejaxx: Unless there's a strong reason otherwise, best to have one source per upstream tarball, and split the binaries based on architecture (and purpose, for libraries)06:12
DoubleDavepersia: thanks again and I am taking all of your opinions but for some reason I cant see a downside06:14
DoubleDavethe software during the setup asks what nic you would like to use for monitoring06:14
DoubleDaveso really you should have two nics anyway06:14
persiaDoubleDave: The downside to /opt is that very few would consider it an "add-on" package, and so getting it into the archives would be very difficult.06:15
DoubleDaveI'll head your advice and see what my buddy thinks06:15
persiaFurther, if you are installing specialised versions of postgres, apache, etc. you do not get the benefits of distro security support for those components, and so need to manage it separately06:15
DoubleDaveI thing the reason why we would like to keep it in opt is for consistancy on for our sake instead of having multiple installs of the same version software06:15
DoubleDavebut if it will be rejected then I guess me complaining wont really get me anyware will it? lol06:16
joejaxxpersia: the tricky thing is all the build requirements06:16
persiaDoubleDave: As the software provider, you shouldn't need to care about the installation location: that should all be abstracted by the build system.  Then, the packaging for each distribution should pass the right flags to the build system to install it in the preferred place.06:16
joejaxxpersia: i am going to have to do an audit of them06:17
persiajoejaxx: Just be extra careful to avoid any loops, and you should be OK.06:17
joejaxxto see if they are even necessary in ubuntu06:17
joejaxxor if they have already been applied06:17
persiajoejaxx: A depends on B and B build-depends on A.  Easy to see for two packages, but not always as obvious for 10.06:18
DoubleDaveanyway to add a little plug here for the software your more than welcome to try it out if you have a spyware problem on your network06:18
DoubleDaveit works great. I'll get to makeing the package compliant06:18
DoubleDavethanks again all06:18
* persia is far too paranoid to install binary software06:18
joejaxxpersia: security paranoia ftw :)06:19
joejaxxStevenK: oh i forgot to tell you, upstream calls it fedora-ds06:23
joejaxxStevenK: ref: package naming06:24
ScottKjoejaxx: I think you meant me.06:26
joejaxxoh whoops06:26
ScottKStevenK: He asked me about what to name his package earlier today.06:27
ScottKjoejaxx: That changes things.  I'd go with the upstream name.06:27
joejaxxScottK: ok06:27
ScottKUnless the other S*K has another thought on it.06:27
* persia notes that backlog says he was asking me, and thanks ScottK for answering promptly06:27
ScottK'cause you were sleeping (like I should be right now).06:27
persiaScottK2: Right.  Go to bed :)06:28
joejaxxi might have to start with the build requirements for it06:28
joejaxxas some of them might not be in ubuntu yet06:28
ScottKpersia: I'm doing important stuff like making software not want to fall over quite so badly in the face of insanely broken DNS servers.06:29
persiaScottK2: Ah.  DNS has a way of keeping one up at night.  Good luck.06:29
joejaxxmaybe i will just put it on ppa as it seems this is going to be a project to upload06:29
joejaxxor it is not going to all get uploaded this release cycle06:30
joejaxxwell maybe06:30
joejaxxdepends on when the new package freeze is06:30
persiajoejaxx: Just give it a shot.  There's a couple months left.06:30
joejaxxwhat is NPF a part of now?06:31
joejaxxi do not see it on the release schedule06:31
persiajoejaxx: Feature Freeze06:31
joejaxxah ok06:31
joejaxxahh i thought it was a lot closer :)06:32
persiajoejaxx: No, this is the right phase of the release cycle to be looking closely at integration and new features to make hardy the best Ubuntu yet.06:33
joejaxxi think the fun part will be the java based parts :P06:36
LaserJockso bzr hit 1.006:45
* LaserJock idly wonders if Launchpad will hit 1.0 soon06:48
* TheMuso wonders whether that will be backported.06:48
LaserJockTheMuso: they have their own repo if not06:48
TheMusoLaserJock: Ah ok. I didn't know that?06:48
LaserJockyeah, they've had it forever06:48
LaserJockthat was about the only way you could keep up06:49
joejaxxanyone else having problems with the libstndc++6 package on hardy?06:49
joejaxxlibstdc++6 *06:50
TheMusojoejaxx: What problems exactly?06:50
* LaserJock raises an eyebrow as libc6-amd64 goes by in his pbuilder update06:50
joejaxxLaserJock: say06:50
joejaxxfailing to configure06:51
joejaxxbut it seems that it goes way after dist-upgrading the rest of the system06:51
joejaxxbah that stinks there are not an 3ware RAID drivers for solaris yet06:52
* TheMuso is currently mirroring hardy, as well as gutsy* powerpc.06:59
TheMusooh and hardy* powerpc06:59
joejaxxpersia: http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing07:00
persiajoejaxx: Why me?07:00
joejaxx-persia :P07:00
persiajoejaxx: Next, what about it?07:01
joejaxxwould any of those license stop any of those from going into universe?07:02
joejaxxwell excluding the software already in ubuntu07:02
* persia is unsure about "Only Red Hat, Inc. may make changes or additions to the list of Approved Interfaces" in paragraph 4 of http://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/GPL_Exception_License_Text for Directory Server Core. Is this exception required for the materials you are expecting to package?07:04
TheMusojoejaxx: What is fedora-ds?07:04
joejaxxTheMuso: directory server07:08
TheMusoWhats so special about it if its ldap?07:08
joejaxxhttp://directory.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features all of this :)07:09
TheMusoNice set of features.07:13
slangasekScottK: I am an archive admin too, as persia seems to have pointed you to07:13
joejaxxTheMuso: :D07:13
joejaxxwell i am going to retire for the evening07:14
joejaxxi will start on the build depends tomorrow07:14
joejaxxGoodnight All07:14
TheMusoNight joejaxx.07:16
persiaslangasek: Do you expect anything special from universe for alpha 2, or is it just more of our regular "things should install, and not FTBFS" efforts.07:18
* TheMuso is VERY impressed with his local mirror.07:21
TheMusoI uploaded a package, and as of approx 3 this afternoon, its there.07:21
TheMusoMuch better turn-around to what it used to be.07:21
HobbseeTheMuso: wow, nice.  internode?07:26
slangasekpersia: I expect universe to be bug-free for alpha 2, of course ;)07:27
TheMusoHobbsee: Yse.07:28
TheMusoyes even07:28
TheMusoSO I don't have to wait half a day for a broken mirror to be working again. :)07:28
slytherinIs an upstream source package contains some jar files. Is it good idea to remove them all?08:00
persiaslytherin: Not necessarily: it depends what is in the jar files.  Sometimes upstreams put source in jar files, and you might need that.08:02
persiaFurther, if the upstream files are free, it might make sense to remove them in clean: rather then removing them in the tarball.08:02
slytherinpersia: There are some demos in the documentation sub directory. These demos are bulild automatically but they don't seem to be cleaned in 'clean' target08:04
persiaslytherin: In that case, either patch clean in the upstream makefile, or add it to debian/rules clean:08:04
slytherinThe situation is like this. I am trying to create a .orig.tar.gz. That is why I want to remove the jar files.08:07
slytherinEven the older .orig.tar.gz has jar files removed08:07
persiaslytherin: I don't see the point of removing the jar files from the orig.tar.gz if you have source for them, and would rebuild during the build process.  I suspect either the source doesn't work, the files aren't free, or someone was being extra careful, and erred in favour of removing stuff rather than maintaining checksum sync with upstream.08:09
slytherinpersia: 1. Sorry for being unclear. The jar files are related to test and demos. So they won't get build in the ubuntu package because we are not using 'test' or 'demo' targets08:10
persiaslytherin: That's fine.  As long as they could be built, and they may be modified and distributed, then they are free enough to be in the tarball, even if we don't use them.08:11
slytherinpersia: Ok. I was under impression that we shouldn't include any jar files in orig.tar.gz them being binary.08:12
persiaslytherin: My opinion is that we should ship the orig.tar.gz available upstream as often as possible, as long as we are permitted to do so.  The only reason most Jar files, PDF files, etc. need to be removed from upstream tarballs is because upstream doesn't provide source.08:13
persiaBinary files are fine: many sounds and graphics have binary formats as the preferred form of modification.08:14
slytherinpersia: provide source in same tarball right?08:14
persiaslytherin: Right.08:14
JimmyDeequietest 177 people I've ever seen09:10
Burgundaviait is European early morning and NA night09:11
JimmyDeeyeah its 0300 here, but no sleep for the wicked09:11
persiaJimmyDee: Even in places where it isn't an odd time, it's the weekend.  Further, this is mostly a coordination channel: people generally only say things when there is a question.09:13
TheMusoAnd, people also idle in here to follow the activity, and to find out what has been going on when they are not around.09:17
* persia contemplates shifting the topic from merging to FTBFS + debcheck09:21
persiaajmitch: Any chance that RCbugs could be updated to point at hardy?09:21
slytherinWhere can I find minor ftbfs bugs?09:29
jpatrickslytherin: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/09:30
persiaslytherin: Separating major from minor is tricky, but the link jpatrick provided is a nice list :)09:30
slytherinI will be mostly looking for java programs/libraries09:31
Lutinpersia: does the ftbfs page makes any difference between build failures and depwait/not yet built ?09:41
persiaLutin: They should be different colors.  Take a look at the top: if you can't differentiate two of the colors, maybe one should be adjusted (I can see 5 with this set)09:42
persiaOoh!  I forgot, they have different letter codes now too :)09:43
Lutinpersia: ahh right. sorry09:44
slytherinIt looks like there is no java-gcj-compat-dev package for hppa. This causes FTBFS for many java based libraries. Does anyone know anything about this?09:55
pochugood morning MOTU land!09:55
geserHi pochu09:59
geserslytherin: go up the dep chain and check why is isn't there10:01
geserslytherin: java-gcj-compat depwaits on gcj-4.2 and gcj-4.2 failed to build as ecj wasn't installable at that time10:02
slytheringeser: Ok. I thought this was something arch specific.10:03
geserit might be10:08
geserI didn't check if ecj is now installable on hppa10:08
slytherinHow can I find someone to review the package I have uploaded?11:19
Hobbseeask in here11:21
persiaslytherin: Is this a new package, or a package update?11:23
slytherinpersia: New version11:23
persiaslytherin: In that case attach a debdiff or interdiff to a bug, and subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors.11:24
slytherinpersia: I had talked with last uploader. He asked me to upload to Revu and I did it and even mailed him for review. But haven't got any reply.11:25
slytherinpersia: I am one of the upstream maintainers and wish to take over package maintenance in Ubuntu11:25
persiaslytherin: There are lots of different methods to get your updates into the repositories.  If you work with a specific person, you may want to listen to them.  The official current procedure in the standard case is as I described.11:26
persiaPersonally, I recommend following the standard procedures to take advantage of team review, and not wait for some person.  On the other hand, some packages do better from having that person's input.11:26
persiaIf you're upstream, and you want to help with Ubuntu, that's great.  I suggest you may also want to get in touch with Debian if your package is there, as the Debian maintainer may also find your advice helpful.11:27
persiaFor most cases of upstream support for a specific application, following the team procedures is fastest.  Once you've had a couple uploads, you'll find your changes getting only light review, as you'll be considered the expert for that package.11:28
slytherinpersia: Since I have already uploaded package to revu is it ok if I mention that in bug or do I still need to attach debdiff/interdiff?11:29
persiaslytherin: Some of the sponsors will demand you generate the diff.  Some will go do it for you.  If you don't attach the diff, be prepared for someone to complain (although they may not).11:30
slytherinpersia: I will do it anyway11:30
slytherinpersia: As to debian package, there is bug in debian for long time to update the package. It was logged by a friend for last upstream version in February. No activity there and since I don't have access to any debian system, I can not do it myself. :-(11:32
persiaslytherin: Which package?11:33
persia87 days old :)11:34
persiaslytherin: The maintainer looks to be active.  You might set up a sid chroot, build a candidate, and ask them if they'd be willing to look at the changes at get it in.11:37
slytherinpersia: Wait, let me check11:37
slytherinpersia: Some confusion on my part. The version mentioned in bug is 10 months old but the bug is not so old. :-)11:39
persiaslytherin: Understood.  No worries.  Still, it's been a while, and the new update may be useful.  Do you distribute a tar.gz upstream?11:41
slytherinpersia: Yes I do.11:41
persiaslytherin: Great.  Sometimes it's troublesome to do an update in Ubuntu when Debian will update soon, as repacking orig.tar.gz files can lead to differing checksums.  If you distribute an official orig.tar.gz, that risk goes away.11:42
slytherinpersia: files bug 17652111:48
ubotuLaunchpad bug 176521 in gnusim8085 "New upstream version available (1.3.2)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17652111:48
persiaslytherin: That looks like a well-formatted bug.  I sponsor in FIFO mode, so there's a heap of other bugs I'll dig at first.  I'd guess it's probably a couple days before that gets uploaded (we're running a little slow right now), unless someone is concentrating on new upstreams and hits it sooner.11:50
slytherinpersia: Thanks. :-)11:51
Kopfgeldjaegercould someony have look at avidemux@revu? the  version in feisty and gutsy is _very_ outdated. http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=avidemux11:52
persiaKopfgeldjaeger: upgraded packages on REVU tend to get ignored.  You may have better luck submitting an interdiff in a bug to the sponsors queue.11:53
slytherinKopfgeldjaeger: Are you targetting that package for feisty/gutsy?11:53
slomosiretart: iirc you asked me to test a new ffmpeg snapshot some days ago? where was it again? :)11:58
Kopfgeldjaegerslytherin: no. hardy.11:59
persiaSupremus: Thanks for all your help with the SRU testing.  It really helps to get the fixes into the repositories.12:06
Supremuspersia, :D12:06
Supremuspersia, could you please see my bugfix?12:08
ubotuLaunchpad bug 176435 in twill "python-twill missing a dependency" [Undecided,Confirmed]12:09
Supremuspersia, sorry for ma bad english12:11
persiaSupremus: It's currently #35 in my view of the sponsoring queue.  Looks relatively sane.12:11
persiaSupremus: Don't worry about your English: while it's always valuable to study languages, as long as people understand, you've achieved the primary goal :)12:12
=== nuu is now known as nu
=== nu is now known as nuu
Supremuspersia, ok12:13
persiaCould anyone point me at a Debian package removal log?  I usually use the PTS, but I'm currently looking at a package that appears to only have ever been uploaded to "unstable", yet lacks a PTS entry.12:16
Lutinstdin: think you might be interested in bug #17263612:16
ubotuLaunchpad bug 172636 in amarok2 "amarok2 FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17263612:16
* persia finds http://ftp-master.debian.org/removals.txt and asks others to ignore the previous request12:18
geserpersia: perhaps the package never was in Debian? which one are you looking at?12:29
persiageser: Yeah.  That was it.  It's showfsck, which was apparently sync'ed back in the days of apt-get.org fun.12:30
siretartslomo: svn.debian.org, pkg-multimedia repo, the experimental branch12:30
slomosiretart: where's the tarball for which this was created? :)12:31
siretartslomo: i've disabled 2 altivec quilt patches. no idea if that was a clever move12:31
slytherinSupremus: While you are at it, you may want to add 'Homepage' field. ;-)12:32
=== Riddelll is now known as Riddell
siretartslomo: on my laptop at home. create it yourself by using the upstream svn trunk12:32
siretartslomo: and svn up -r {20071007}12:32
slomook :)12:32
* persia encourages get-orig-source in debian/rules to make this transparent12:32
slomosiretart: i can't test on ppc though... mine is broken :/ how much did the api change?12:33
siretartslomo: mount the debian branch on it and run debian/strip.sh to disable the mpeg encoders12:33
=== bluekuja_ is now known as bluekuja
siretartslomo: I've rebuilt all ffmpeg using packages in debian12:34
bluekujagood morning everyone12:34
bluekujaheya siretart, slomo, persia, geser12:34
siretartyesterday, and  didnt notice a single ftbfs due  to api changes12:34
geserpersia: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-changes-auto/2005-October/001421.html12:34
geserpersia: auto-synced from dept-info.labri.fr12:35
slomosiretart: even new gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg that builds against it? great :)12:35
geserHi bluekuja12:35
slomosiretart: why does the ffmpeg option to list all codecs still list h263 as supported for encoding btw?12:35
persiageser: Yep.  New version now hosted on http://www-id.imag.fr/Laboratoire/Membres/Danjean_Vincent/deb.html#showfsck, but context was lost due to the change to only pulling from Debian.12:35
siretartslomo: ive bounced you the buildlog12:37
siretartslomo: I think that should be fixed now in the experimental branch12:37
siretartslomo: needs more research for a  definite answer12:37
geserhttp://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ has now also some per-arch stats and is valid XHTML 1.112:39
DktrKranzgeser, great!12:40
slomosiretart: looks good (the build log)12:40
bluekujaslangasek, around?12:40
siretartslomo: need to leave now, please mail me your findings12:40
Lutingeser: cool :)12:41
siretartslomo: I plan an upload to experimantal rsn12:41
slomosiretart: will do... and an upload to exp would be nice too so we can get some wider tseting :)12:41
persiabluekuja: It's very early in the morning there.  You might have a bit to wait.12:41
Lutingeser: was thinking too: a BTS link might be useful, to check quickly if a FTBFS fix has been uploaded to debian12:41
slangasekyes, you might have to wait a minute or two12:41
bluekujaslangasek, haha :)12:41
bluekujaslangasek, how are you? everything fine?12:42
slangasekmy eyelids are drooping and you probably have about 2 minutes of my attention before I wander to bed :)12:42
bluekujaslangasek, about fische, I found out that the build system created upstream, was unable to support all the archs, so I wanted to restrict them for a while12:43
bluekujaI was in contact with upstream about that, so I guess I'll have to send him a reminder-mail12:44
slangasekin that case, I may end up having a look at the package to try to get it ported12:44
bluekujaslangasek, that would be simply great :)12:44
=== _czessi is now known as Czessi
slangasek... but not until after I sleep.  G'night. :)12:45
imbrandongnight slangasek12:45
bluekujagood night mate, ping me again when you gonna wake up12:45
geserLutin: I've already a quick-search for PTS in my firefox :) But I could add a BTS link for each package if it helps12:46
DktrKranzhey imbrandon, any news for the meeting?12:46
geserLutin: where in the row should it be added? at the end?12:46
imbrandonDktrKranz: the sru meeting ?12:47
Lutingeser: aah :) . was just a thought anyway, don't know if there are other developers that would find useful12:47
DktrKranzimbrandon, that one12:47
imbrandonDktrKranz: 2100 UTC today12:47
DktrKranzok, saturday night may wait a bit :D12:47
DktrKranzon #ubuntu-meeting12:47
persiaDktrKranz/imbrandon: There was an interesting request earlier that I wasn't sure how to answer: specifically someone subscribed both U-U-S and ~motu-sru to a bug.  Does the SRU team approve or approve & upload?12:47
Lutingeser: the place doesn't matter much, as long as it's there :)12:47
DktrKranzpersia, related to spe?12:48
imbrandonpersia: typicly only approve12:48
persiaDktrKranz: You seem to get the same bugmail as I :)12:48
persiaimbrandon: OK.  I'd like to keep the U-U-S queue clean: what's the best way to coordinate to not miss things?12:49
geserLutin: do you want a link to the BTS or PTS or both?12:49
* persia would prefer PTS if there was only one link.12:49
imbrandonpersia: in the past only ACK unless specicly stated in the bug when acking that they would upload it, but really u-u-s shouldnt be subscribed untill its ready, e.g in this cased acked12:49
Lutinpersia , geser : right, PTS might be better12:49
DktrKranzpersia, not sure if a motu-sru member should upload it as well after approving it, but it should be worth discussing it12:49
imbrandondid that make sense12:49
persiaimbrandon: OK.  So if U-U-S gets an SRU request, it should be resubscribed to the SRU team, and when it gets ACK'd, the SRU team will resubscribe UUS if it needs sponsoring for upload?12:50
persiaDktrKranz: Does that make sense to you?12:50
DktrKranzpersia, it does to me12:51
persiaOK.  Let's go with that as a provisional policy for the next 7 hours, and you guys can confirm at your meeting, and publish an update in your new policy report to the ML.12:52
imbrandonbasicly that makes it so ~ubuntu-dev filed bugs get "one" eyebal ( as should be ) and contributor uploads get atleaste 212:52
DktrKranzwhat about writing a brief agenda on the wiki (or gobby, or whatever) to have a list of things to discuss?12:52
imbrandonDktrKranz: yup, just waking up myself but i'm actualy doing that right now12:52
DktrKranzimbrandon, thanks12:52
imbrandonpersia: yup12:52
DktrKranzplease, point me to it once ready12:52
imbrandonDktrKranz: ok, i'll "publish" it here in a few, lemme wake up just a tad and dig out my txt from last night12:53
DktrKranz\o/ dapper -> hardy upgrade failure!12:53
imbrandonpersia: right see that gets more eyes on a contributor sru patch without having to make it explisit policy ( wich is good imho , i'm a fan of strong but minimal policy ) anyhow imho it *should* go like this ( will get confirmed in the meeting today )12:55
* txwikinger wonders what to work on next12:55
imbrandonmotu files bug --> sru ack --> motu upload ; contributor files bug, sru ack; u-u-s review and upload12:56
imbrandonpersia: see what i mean ?12:56
persiaimbrandon: I'd agree.  Further, I don't think the SRU team is necessarily the people who want to spend time chasing new contributor processes, and I don't think the UUS team is necessarily the people who can make a good determination on SRU.12:56
persiatxwikinger: unmet or incorrect dependencies.  See the debcheck page on qa.ubuntuwire.com12:57
txwikingerok persia12:57
DktrKranzadditionally, as pitti said, before going for a SRU, we must be sure development version is fine, we don't want to file a new SRU for a regression12:58
imbrandonDktrKranz: right, but thats part of what the sru team should be checking when acking a bug/request , e.g. its great of the filer does that but ultimately its our duty to check12:59
persiaimbrandon: I think you guys should not only be checking, but also testing.  If you can't reproduce, you'll need to get lots of logs, etc.12:59
imbrandonpersia: right, i simplified that a bit but yea12:59
DktrKranzIt's hard to ACK something without testing it, IMHO13:00
persiaDktrKranz: No, it's just three characters.  Very easy :)13:00
persia(note that this might mean a change of membership in the ACK'ing team :) )13:00
DktrKranzthat's why TEST CASE must be accurate, and bug description update accordingly13:00
imbrandonspeaking of ... the flashplugin-nonfree introduces a new regression that might not be avoidable, eg. require an aditional sru for another package13:01
DktrKranzpersia, typing A, C, K with SHIFT key pressed is very hard...13:01
persiaDktrKranz: If you're caps lock doesn't work, try enabling sticky keys13:01
DktrKranzand I'm not a caps-lock supporter...13:01
imbrandonheh i'm for all lowercase and all only ascii keyboards :)13:02
* imbrandon ducks13:02
* DktrKranz ponders to buy that wooden-made bird Homer Simpson used to manage his tasks on the nuclear plant13:02
imbrandonDktrKranz: anyhow the document i'm writeing is basicly a copy paste from the current main + universe SRU page with the universe stuff all deleted initialy and then going back and noting the 1 or 2 subtle diffrences in the two pilicys , e.g. my goal is to make it ONE policy with only team name changes basicly13:04
DktrKranzand it really should be that way13:05
DktrKranzwe don't want to have two different procedures, with many differences between them13:06
persiaimbrandon: One key difference I see is that for universe FTBFS and cannot-install bugs seem to get handled, whereas for main, they aren't usually considered.13:06
imbrandonwell at one time we did, this will be the 4th universe pilicy i have seen come to light since i have been involved with ubuntu, and the more we can keep it the same the better we are imho just from past experince13:06
persiaimbrandon: Only the 4th?  Aren't you glossing over the SRU-policy-of-the-week part of the feisty cycle?13:07
imbrandonpersia: yea, basicly the same as main + these key points ( only ) .... team name changes and a few additions to what qualifies for an SRU , eg. FTBFS bugs13:07
imbrandonpersia: hehe yea i dont really consider that one13:08
=== apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger
DktrKranzmh, SRU policy states only regressions or data losses are good candidates for updates13:08
DktrKranzI think FTBFS can be managed by backports13:09
imbrandonDktrKranz: right, and for universe we want to make just a few additions to that , that basicly is the only change to the main policy13:09
imbrandonDktrKranz: not really FTBFS are normaly regressions13:09
imbrandonbut minor regressions that main normaly dont think applies13:09
DktrKranzah, good point13:10
persiaDktrKranz: For main, that is true, but main doesn't have FTBFS or cannot-install as there are careful rebuild tests and install tests of all the packages after feature freeze.13:10
DktrKranzso, basically we can consider good candidates bugs which have at least "medium" priority13:11
persiaIsn't "Medium" the default priority?13:11
imbrandonhrm depending on the person that triaged it possibly heh13:11
imbrandonpersia: no, none is afaik13:11
imbrandonor "unset" or soemthing13:11
DktrKranzI'm referring to "medium" for motu-sru13:11
persiaI think you'd want a set of rules for bug class, rather than using Priority.13:11
persiaMy thought for the set would be: data loss, regression, FTBFS, cannot-install, license violation, completely fails to work (e.g. Bug #108559)13:12
ubotuLaunchpad bug 108559 in skencil "skencil core dumps when I attempt to load it (dup-of: 81567)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10855913:12
ubotuLaunchpad bug 81567 in skencil "skencil crashes on startup with a SIGSEGV in free()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8156713:12
imbrandonok i got a serouis question here, policy dissussion aside for a moment, ok the flashplugin-nonfree update , it works perfect for geko based browsers, but totaly breaks konqueror, sooooooooooo13:13
DktrKranzGotta leave for a while, my father manages to adjust our christmas tree, he's unhappy of the lights...13:14
DktrKranzI'll read logs later13:14
DktrKranzsee you13:14
imbrandondo we knowingly break konq or there is a patch but its pretty invasive and untested13:14
persiaimbrandon: I'd be opposed (even though I use gecko).  That's just very risky.13:14
imbrandonpersia: well then anyone that dosent use hardy wont be able to use flash13:14
imbrandonthats a tough call too13:14
persiaimbrandon: No, anyone who installs gutsy after the upstream change will have to use a free flash viewer.13:15
imbrandone.g. its not a bug in flash, its a bug in konq that flash exposes13:15
persiaOr rather, Ubuntu doesn't support them.  They can download from upstream, but that might break their browser.13:16
imbrandonsooo really we should do a konq sru too, but the code is new and untested and actualy in svn only13:16
persiaimbrandon: Why a konq SRU?  Is there a chance of data loss?  Is it a regression?  (konq is main)13:16
imbrandonpersia: yea ubuntu dosent support them, but ummm try telling that to the users heh13:16
persiaimbrandon: I do, sometimes accompanied by hints for a workaround, and warnings that it might break things.13:17
imbrandonpersia: yea i know, this was discussed in #k-devel yeaterday, i dont like any of the awnsers but one of them we will have to do, its a case of lesser of the evils here i'm afaraid13:17
joejaxxGood Morning All13:17
imbrandonello joejaxx13:17
persiaimbrandon: I'd agree with that.  I think the lesser evil is using free flash viewers in gutsy (gutsy gnash is pretty good), but I'm opinionated, which is part of why it's not my decision :)13:18
imbrandonpersia: hrm but that still makes a regression from dapper onword, this is for all supported releases atm13:19
imbrandonand gnash isnt in all13:19
imbrandone.g. feist on? maybe edgy but the edgy version likely isnt the one that can do video etc13:20
persiaimbrandon: Ah.  True.  For < gutsy, gnash isn't really as good, and for dapper or edgy, nothing really is useable.13:20
persiaimbrandon: On the other hand, konqeror is fairly popular :(13:21
imbrandoni mean i hate flash too, actualy i dont hate flash i just hate gnash is ready or arround sooner, but anyhow , the users do see it as important and there is a vast number of sites that use it, its kinda a psudo standard as much as we know it shouldnt be13:21
imbrandonpersia: yea, not supporting konq is just as much of a deadly mistake as not updating flash13:22
imbrandonrock + hardplace13:22
* joejaxx remembers back in 1999 when it was "cool" to have your entire site in flash13:22
persiajoejaxx: Some people still think that way13:22
* joejaxx does like that era :P13:22
joejaxxpersia: yeah13:23
imbrandongeocities homepages13:23
joejaxximbrandon: hahaha13:23
StevenKI remember when embedded MIDI was cool13:23
* StevenK twitches13:23
imbrandoni had a geocities homepage ( before it was bought by yahoo ) about c64 basic programign heheh13:23
persiaimbrandon: Not only.  nokia.co.jp is mostly flash, and not gnash-friendly.13:24
imbrandonStevenK: heh13:24
joejaxxStevenK: LOL yeah13:24
persiaOr maybe that got fixed (oops)13:24
imbrandonhrm there IS one other alternative13:24
StevenKI think any Nokia site is mostly flash?13:24
imbrandonbear with me ... i just thought about this13:24
joejaxxyou would have to sift through the webpages trying to figure out which one was playing the music13:25
imbrandonnow the current flash9 releases is r115 , r48 ( last released ) works with konq13:25
imbrandonwell adobe only makes avail r115 in the download url13:25
persiaStevenK: I thought so as well, but apparently .jp was sorted recently.  Still flash-heavy, but now navigable.  I suspect it's to avoid breaking everyones phone.13:25
imbrandonadobe also makes r48 and others avail in a "archive" zip thats 65+ MB13:26
imbrandonsooooooo we could have the package check the release its installed to and optionaly get the r48 for konq13:26
imbrandonbut thats full of holes and a large download13:26
StevenKpersia: Yeah, I this feeling that the phone browser got locked in a room with the web site people, the door was locked, and they were told they were going to be let out until they reached an understanding.13:26
imbrandone.g. for someone who has ubuntu but konqueror installed13:27
imbrandonthoughts ?13:27
StevenKimbrandon: Then the package installation should fail with "Konqueror SUCKS!"13:28
persiaStevenK: Not that drastic.  About 6 months ago most phones were upgraded to 640x480, which suddenly made the normal web accessible (320x240 still used special sites), and a lot of customers now use their phones as their primary browsers (nothing else to do on the train).13:28
* StevenK hides13:28
joejaxxStevenK: lol13:28
imbrandonStevenK: heh that was my initial thought, but then we have the issue of people that have konq and ff installed13:28
StevenKpersia: I don't, since Telstra charge something like $0.30 per KB13:28
joejaxxStevenK: oh wow13:29
imbrandonStevenK: robery13:29
StevenK(I'm not sure of the exact number, but it's *hideous*)13:29
StevenKimbrandon: Apparently, Telstra *need* to make $200 million profit13:29
persiaStevenK: Right.  That might be why nokia.jp is more standards compliant than nokia.au.  Unlimited mobile dual-ISDN goes for about 6000 yen a month, and phone data charges are around 2 yen per 10,000 packets.13:29
Tilllinuxhiho. If I want to create a GUI for, let's say, CloneZilla, what do I have to know to create one?13:30
persiaTilllinux: Do you mean building a XUL app?13:30
imbrandonwhats clonezilla ? a cli app ?13:30
imbrandonso what do you all think aobut the "archive" work arround ? and some of the wholes it makes13:31
* txwikinger likes Konq13:32
imbrandonbasicly it would make r48 only available on dapper to gutsy ( at the cost of a 65+ mb download ) and r115 avail on hardy13:32
persiaimbrandon: Actually, if you could leverage that to use the version of flash that was originally shipped for that release, you'd likely get a supportable solution.13:34
persias/that release/each release/13:34
imbrandonyea r48 is what is currently in all supported releases via other SRU's13:34
* persia notes that people in places with less high or more costly bandwidth may have a different opinion13:34
TilllinuxI'd like to either create a simple gui for clonezilla (http://drbl.sourceforge.net/screenshot/?in_path=/01_Clonezilla) or just a simple script that provides all information needed to start backup'ing/restoring (for our school... we've tried acronis snap deploy but... umm... it isn't reliable [like, clients stop to restore at 99,99% ;) ])13:35
persiaimbrandon: Right, but in the future, you could track versions for releases properly, and not keep updating just because upstream did.13:35
imbrandonpersia: exactly13:35
imbrandonthe one thing i would have to do would be make it download the zip of the archive regardless and check the md5 of the file inside, not the archive as a whole, as new "archives" releases are likely to be added13:36
persiaimbrandon: The problem is places like Australia that request vital organs in exchange for large downloads or places like Ghana, where it might be faster to drive somewhere to carry around that much data rather then downloading it.13:37
imbrandonyup, but the more i think about it, it might be the best tradeoff, users still wont be happy because they will have an "old version" but its better than having no version or SRUing untested svn code13:38
persiaTilllinux: Looks like you could use just about any GUI creation tools to make a GUI.  If you don't mind GTK, I'd suggest that any of the glade bindings would probably ease your workflow.  On the other hand, this isn't really the best place to ask general programming questions.13:39
StevenKpersia: Yes, that's exactly the problem. Telstra ask for vital organs for large downloads and you only have so many.13:39
imbrandonlet me check the exact size, irrc its right at 65 mb13:40
persiaStevenK: How discriminating are they?  Could a shovel help?13:40
imbrandonpersia: hahahaha13:40
StevenKpersia: Oh dear.13:41
* persia apologises for the poor taste, and will refrain in the future13:42
imbrandonStevenK / persia : yea between 61 and 85 MB via http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=tn_14266&sliceId=213:42
imbrandonbut thats the "safest" alternative13:44
persiaimbrandon: You might try a ML post to ask the question: options being 1) don't update, 2) break konq, 3) patch konq, 4) huge download.13:44
imbrandongood idea13:45
imbrandonpersia: btw while i wait for my mail client to start heh, that contract was "typod" hehe i'm closer to the 75 to 78 i'm accustomed to lol13:48
imbrandonjust fyi :)13:49
persiaimbrandon: Right.  This is why it's good to get signed paper copies before asking questions :)13:49
imbrandonheh yea13:50
joejaxxdoes anyone even honor ubuntu certification yet? lol13:51
imbrandonok i always forget the diffrence between -devel and -devel-discuss, what one is approperate13:51
imbrandonjoejaxx: from LPI ?13:51
imbrandonand honor in what way ? ehhe13:52
joejaxximbrandon: as in does it hold any weight yet :P13:52
joejaxxor are people taking it seriously i should say13:52
imbrandoni would guess as serouisly as RH cert form LPI as its the same people13:52
persiajoejaxx: Those (benighted) employers who attach weight to certifications likely will consider an Ubuntu certification when considering one for a position involving Ubuntu.13:52
imbrandonimho none are worth anything, but thats just me13:53
imbrandonwell not worth anything is wrong, not worth what people use them as/for13:54
imbrandonis better13:54
persiaimbrandon: -devel is for developer communication.  -devel-discuss is for general discussion by anyone about the traffic on -devel and a redirect for posts to -devel by non-developers.  Use -devel.13:54
StevenKimbrandon: A lot of employers tend to put weight on an RHCE, for example13:55
persiadfiloni: You were looking for me earlier.  I suspect about wxwidgets2.8.  I can't build it due to issues on my local system: you'll need another sponsor.  The changes I last reviewed looked good and clean.13:55
imbrandonStevenK: yea, really depends on the the place, i know the place i work for looks at all certs ( MS and LPI and RH* and CCN* etc ) as shredder material, but i konw thats not the case some places13:56
dfilonipersia: sponso? I'm a newbie, I don't understand what  you said me...13:56
imbrandonthey place experince at a much much higher sot13:56
* persia is aware of employers that consider certifications on a CV to be negative, and other employers who will not employ people not certified in the relevant technologies.13:57
persiadfiloni: Which don't you understand?13:57
dfilonipersia: I don't understand why I will need another sponsor13:58
dfilonipersia: and who is a sponsor...13:59
StevenKimbrandon: Hah, way cool.13:59
persiadfiloni: Because I'm unable to upload without changing my local system configuration, and I don't want to change it when there are other sponsors.  A sponsor is someone who uploads contributions from people who are not members of ~ubuntu-dev.13:59
dfilonipersia: ok, no problem14:00
geserpersia, Lutin: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs has now a PTS and BTS link14:00
persiageser: Looks nice.14:01
Lutingeser: great ! thanks a lot :)14:01
* persia encourages someone else to sponsor bug #133888 for dfiloni14:02
ubotuLaunchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13388814:02
joejaxxzul: Good Morning :)14:04
zulhi joejaxx14:04
imbrandonmoins zul14:05
zulmorning imbrandon14:05
geserpersia: what needs to be still done for wxwidgets? just test-build and upload or also some more review?14:06
jimqodehello, I just uploaded a package to my ppa, but i don't see it in the build queue. is it normal?14:07
persiageser: just test-build and upload.  I can only build locally, but was able to test successfully with both a local build and pochu's build.14:07
persiaI just don't have enough capacity in my LVM chroot for a proper test-build.14:07
geserhow much space does it need?14:08
imbrandonjimqode: yes, it take some $time for it to show, where $time == 20 minutes to 24 hours14:08
imbrandonhard to tell14:08
jimqodeimbrandon, thank you!14:08
persiageser: Not sure.  Somewhere around 8GB I think.14:08
persia(including base tools, build-deps, etc.)14:09
jimqodesomething else, which version of ubuntu are my packages going to be compiled for? I want them for gutsy but I haven't seen any options for that.14:10
persiajimqode: Which version did you list in your changelog entry?14:11
jimqodei cant see a version: wmii (3.6+debian-3~jimqode) unstable; urgency=low14:11
geserpersia: then I don't have enough free space either. I've a new 500 GB disk, but I haven't moved my system to it yet.14:12
persiageser: That's the problem with wxwidgets.  It's a huge and ugly package (although dfiloni has mostly cleaned up the new one), so nobody likes to work with it.14:12
jimqodepersia, am i doing something wrong?14:13
geserare we interested in gcc-4.3 patches from Debian for hardy? or is this something for hardy+1?14:14
persiajimqode: You're asking for compilation against "unstable".  I don't know how Soyuz interprets that.14:14
geseriirc uploads for unstable get rejected14:14
persiageser: We applied quite a few gcc-4.3 patches for gutsy, and I think I remember a couple from feisty.  Better to push now.14:14
persiageser: By PPAs?14:15
jimqodepersia, what are the keywords i can use? version numbers or names? What should i write there to compile against gutsy?14:15
persiajimqode: "gutsy"14:15
jimqodepersia, thank you14:15
geserpersia: ok, I will see if it's safe to sync the package if I see gcc-4.3 fixes in debian uploads14:16
dfilonianyone can sponsor bug  #133888?14:19
ubotuLaunchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13388814:19
imbrandonpersia / StevenK / * : email sent to -devel explainign the issue and possible outcomes , sugestions welcome14:37
* persia is very much not an SRU expert, and doesn't use non-free flash, so refrains14:38
imbrandonpersia: even a proofread to make sure i got the point correct might be helpfull hehe14:38
* persia polls the mail queue, wondering if it was sent from the right address14:39
imbrandon yea it was, i just checked14:39
* imbrandon checks again14:39
imbrandonahh its still in my outbox, mail is being slow14:39
imbrandonone sec14:39
* imbrandon kicks evolution14:44
* persia suggests imbrandon may want a different client. mailx is known to send reliably, for instance.14:48
DktrKranztelnet is better14:48
imbrandonyea i've been contemplating using mutt14:48
imbrandonanyhow sent now, i just used the gmail webinterface14:48
persiaDktrKranz: The only issue with telnet is that it doesn't auto-retry in case of network failure, but it's at least simple.14:49
imbrandonpersia: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-December/024877.html14:56
imbrandonfinaly made it14:56
dfilonianyone can sponsor bug  #133888?14:59
ubotuLaunchpad bug 133888 in wxwidgets2.8 "upgrade wxwidgets2.8 to the release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13388814:59
pochuimbrandon: you mention dapper->gutsy updates in your post, but they aren't supported, are they?15:01
imbrandonpochu: e.g. seperate sru for all releases15:02
imbrandonno upgrades from reelease to release15:02
DktrKranzpochu, IIRC only LTS -> LTS upgrades are supported15:02
persiadfiloni: For all that I support your candidate, and would like to see an update at least as much as you, I recommend you don't ask too often.  Some sponsors avoid uploading for people who ask a lot.15:17
dfilonipersia: thanks for your hints, I really appreciate it15:18
persiaimbrandon: Just to check, what does "break konqueror" really mean?  Is only flash broken, or does it have wider effects?15:18
imbrandonpersia: segfaults the browser15:19
persiadfiloni: Thank you for taking so much trouble with that unloved library.  Getting the new version in should close a lot of other bugs.15:19
imbrandonif a flash page is tried to be visited15:19
persiaimbrandon: Only when visiting flash sites, or always?15:19
DktrKranzpersia, I'm not confortable with wxwidgets, but would like to help dfiloni somehow. Is there something I need to know to review wxwidgets?15:19
persiaAh.  Yes.  That would be bad :(15:19
* persia looks at the bug again15:19
persiaDktrKranz: Build it in a safe environment.  Install it.  Test a client for the python binding (which also hits GTK & base).  filezilla or amule are probably the two most popular clients.15:22
persiaDktrKranz: pochu has done all of the above, and I've done items 2 & 3, so it's pretty safe.15:22
pochupersia: filezilla and amule don't use the python bindings15:23
pochuI tested with phatch for the python bindings, fwiw15:23
DktrKranzprobably boa-constructor does15:23
DktrKranzit uses 2.6, but should be compatible15:24
* persia has misread the output of apt-cache rdepends and apologises for both the confusion & insufficient testing15:24
pochupersia: I tested it, so don't worry ;)15:24
persiaDktrKranz: 2.6 and 2.8 are parallel installs, and all the clients are built against one or the other, so unless you want to port boa-constructor, you're better off with something else.15:25
persia(they are also not compatible APIs: WX is good about reversioning for incompatible changes, but less good about having easy transition plans)15:25
pochuaMule is built against wx2.815:25
IwanowitchMercury (a programming language) has a new version upstream, and I'd like to see it in Ubuntu. However, it hasn't been maintained for about 3 years now. What should I do? File a bug? Get in touch with Debian maintainers?15:25
pochuand Filezilla too15:25
DktrKranzgood point15:26
persiaIwanowitch: What's the package name?15:26
Iwanowitchpersia: mercury15:26
pochuIt is in the repos, isnt it?15:27
pochu   mercury | 0.11.0.rotd.20040511-5ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hardy/universe Packages15:27
IwanowitchIn universe, yes.15:27
pochuOh, you mean the new release15:27
Iwanowitch2004 as you can see.15:27
pochuIwanowitch: file a bug then.15:27
persiaIwanowitch: I'd suggest preparing an update candidate for Ubuntu.  The Debian maintainer doesn't appear to be very active (I may well be mistaken).15:27
pochuIwanowitch: and tag it 'upgrade'15:27
zulimbrandon: how is the snow?15:28
imbrandonzul: i havent went outside yet, but looking out the window about 2 inches so far and still comming15:28
IwanowitchI'll be taking a look at it, will probably have more questions. Thanks :)15:28
zulthats not too bad i thought you were suppose to get alot15:28
persiaIwanowitch: For the update, it would be worth trying to make sure all of http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=mercury are also closed, as some of them are considered sufficient to block release.15:28
=== sladen_ is now known as sladen
persiaIwanowitch: Also, I'd recommend using a real release, rather than a rotd version.  That appears to be one of the reasons why the package is having trouble.15:30
imbrandonzul: yea they called for upto 12 inches15:30
imbrandonseems most of it missed me15:30
persiaimbrandon: Seems reasonable, aside from my uncertainty above.  Usual comments about grammar, capitalisation, and spelling apply :)15:32
ScottKimbrandon: You have mail (about the Flash thing).15:33
persiaWhen does Edgy support stop again?  April?15:35
dfilonipochu: do you tried if the new version of wxwidgets2.8 ( fix amule's bugs?15:36
dfiloni*did you try15:36
imbrandonScottK: thanks, reading now15:37
pochudfiloni: I tried with one of them, which is reproducible, and it doesn't fix it.15:37
* persia grumbles at the introduction of a new package depending on wx2.415:37
pochupersia: how are your plans of getting rid of wx2.4?15:38
dfilonipochu: ok...15:38
persiapochu: I'm basically stuck.  I don't understand ctsim well enough to port it, I'm not excited about trying to fix ecos SVN, as I don't like new snapshots of something that the devs don't think is suitable for use, and I'm not going to touch gnue-*.  survex is on my todo list, but with the other issues, it's not a high priority.15:40
persiaOn the other hand, this new package gets hit now to see if simple brute-force can prevent the problem growing.15:40
pochupersia: should we get a CVS snapshot of amule in? 2.2.0 has been frozen for a long time, but no final release yet...15:40
* ScottK cheers brute force.15:40
pochupersia: request a removal for all of them? ;)15:40
* pochu hides15:40
persiapochu: Any guess from upstream as to when there might be one?15:40
pochupersia: nope. Let me see if I can get some news...15:41
txwikingerhow do I handle a case when for an upgrade of a package an additional package is needed which exists in debian but not in ubuntu15:41
persiapochu: For ecos, I'm thinking about it.  For gnue-*, the Debian maintainer is often in this channel, and keeps not wanting to talk about it.  For ctsim, there's really no alternative, and it meets a need.  For survex, I think it's soluable, just needs ~30 hours of porting work.15:42
persiatxwikinger: Best way is to try to pull the Debian package.  What's the dependency?15:42
txwikingerit might also work with locales, but I am not sure15:43
persiatxwikinger: That's a special case.  Try to play with adjusting the dependencies, and test a bit.15:44
txwikingerThe build works (the package is libversion-perl)15:45
* persia wonders why on earth a package would build-depend on both libwxgtk2.4-dev and qt3-dev-tools15:45
persiatxwikinger: The build working is a good sign.  Adjust debian/control, rebuild, and test to see if the result works.15:45
txwikingerYes I did that15:46
persiatxwikinger: Does the result work?15:46
txwikingerbut I am not sure if I can extensively test the packages itself15:46
txwikingerthe build has some tests, and 4 are skipped15:46
txwikingerbut that looks independent of the dependency and looks ok15:47
txwikingerI will try what it does if I get the debian package15:47
pochupersia: LOL http://forum.amule.org/index.php?topic=13700.015:47
persiatxwikinger: If you need wider testing, you can either put the patch somewhere and call for developers as testers, or submit to a PPA and ask for lots of testers.  Don't try with debian locales: Ubuntu varies on that on purpose.15:48
txwikingerNo I would try locales-all from debian15:49
txwikingerwe don't have that package15:49
persiapochu: How clean are they?  If Festor is updating that often, maybe we should grab one of those (assuming the testing is OK).15:49
txwikingerI tried with our locales instead15:49
persiatxwikinger: My confusion.  Still, Ubuntu locale handling is different, and we won't be able to pull from Debian.15:50
txwikingerok.. then I can leave that test15:50
* persia grumbles that jugglemater has to be added to the porting list :(15:52
pochupersia: or maybe we could ask him to do the work in the archive ;)15:52
persiapochu: Sounds reasonable.  Given that finding a place to upload seems to have been one of the problems.  I just like soft introductions: having 100 people suddenly complaining about policy violations isn't best :)15:53
pochupersia: sorry? I can't understand that about policy violations and soft introductions. could you rephrase for me? my english isn't that good :/15:57
persiapochu: Sorry.15:57
pochuwell I know what are policy violations but don't get the sense in that context ;)15:57
persiapochu: The forum thread gives me the impression that a place to upload (like the archives) would be appreciated.15:58
pochuheh, ok :)15:58
pochuthank you15:58
persiaOn the other hand, if you have time to gently review and discuss with upstream, I suspect that they will be happier than if they went straight to REVU.15:58
persiaSome people don't react well to having all the developers telling them they should do it differently when they already have lots of happy users.15:59
pochupersia: festor isn't upstream, is just a contributor in ubuntu-es ;)15:59
persiapochu: Ah.  Easier then :)15:59
pochuI'll ask him when he connects again :)15:59
persiapochu: Thanks.  Takes an application off your list, and puts it in the hands of someone with a clear and documented interest in chasing upstream :)16:00
pochupersia: and who uses the given application ;)16:01
persiapochu: That's good too :)16:01
persiabigon: Please try to keep changelogs in version order: when pulling from UNRELEASED, it's likely good to mangle the last changelog entry, rather than adding a new one.16:05
=== dfiloni_ is now known as dfiloni
slicerDoes anyone have time to do a review update of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=mumble ? I'd kind of hoped to get the package done before the holidays.17:13
somerville32slicer, I'm not a MOTU but I'll take a peak17:20
=== ember_ is now known as ember
=== scr88 is now known as WildThang
=== WildThang is now known as sroberts
guest22_Hi norsetto, I see you're back. I've fixed all of the problems with package "photoml" that you pointed out yesterday (and it now builds in a properly updated pbuilder). Would you mind taking another look?18:11
norsetto_guest22: could you add a watch file?18:17
pkernStevenK: Why shouldn't .la files be installed?18:18
norsetto_guest22_: you should also update http://www.wohlberg.net/public/software/photo/photoml/18:19
norsetto_guest22_: lintian warning on the source W: photoml source: binary-arch-rules-but-pkg-is-arch-indep18:22
guest22_norsetto: excuse my ignorance: what's a watch file?18:24
LucidFoxguest22_> debian/watch18:24
LucidFoxa file that allows for automated search of new upstream versions with uscan18:24
pochusee https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/DebianWatch18:25
guest22_norsetto: That must be something new - I'll look up the details and add one. I'll update the release on the homepage soon.18:26
pkernAnyone who could give me a clue about libtool .la removals?18:26
norsetto_pkern: only clue I can give you is that I was told not to add them in new -dev packages18:26
pkernnorsetto_: And the reasoning behind that?18:27
norsetto_pkern: "because libtool is evil" whatever that means18:27
guest22_LucidFox: Thanks for the details.18:28
norsetto_pkern: In my case I also had a pkgconfig file, so it was not a big deal18:28
pkernnorsetto_: Now of course packages *might* also depend on the old libtool behaviour?18:28
pkernI mean all I see is this bug report: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=45138918:29
ubotuDebian bug 451389 in libglade "Please remove .la files from the package" [Normal,Open]18:29
pkernAnd a changelog entry of StevenK where he announces that he'll do bad things to the libtool maintainers.18:29
pkernUnhelpful that is.18:29
guest22_norsetto: The lintian warning you mention doesn't appear on my system (dapper) or on the lintian output on REVU. What version did you run when you obtained that error?18:29
norsetto_guest22_: 1.23.41~gutsy1 which is a backport of the hardy one18:30
guest22_norsetto: OK, thanks, I'll look into that. Did you notice any other issues?18:31
somerville32Does anyone have an i386 machine I can build on?18:32
norsetto_pkern: yes, he was pretty upset about this (amongst others I believe): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/libgcrypt11/+bug/13963518:33
ubotuLaunchpad bug 139635 in libgpg-error "[cryptsetup] library dependency in /sbin/cryptsetup" [Undecided,In progress]18:33
norsetto_guest22_: yes, I'm compiling them all together and will post it to REVU18:33
guest22_norsetto: Molte grazie18:34
norsetto_guest22_: I guess pmldoc.html is the source for pmldoc.pdf ?18:38
norsetto_guest22_: sorry, I'm having connection problems, did you see this: I guess pmldoc.html is the source for pmldoc.pdf ?18:40
guest22_norsetto: No, pmldoc.html and pmldoc.pdf are both built from DocBook source.18:42
pochupkern: if you find some documentation about it (.la removal) I'd be interested in it :)18:48
guest22_norsetto_: (Repeating in case of connection problems) No, pmldoc.html and pmldoc.pdf are both built from DocBook source.18:51
LaserJockimbrandon: ping?18:55
LaserJockI gotta run for some christmas shopping18:55
LaserJockbut I should be back before the meeting18:55
imbrandoncool, pick me up a eeepc :)18:55
LaserJockI'm going to Cabela's, not sure if they have eeepcs18:56
warp10Hi all!18:57
gesersomerville32: you don't have i386? which arch do you have?18:57
gesersomerville32: what about using PPA?18:57
somerville32geser, I'm i386 but I have a 333mhz computer.18:57
geserok :)18:57
somerville32geser, and I can't compile binaries on amd64 for my computer, can I?18:58
somerville32geser, (I have access to amd64 computers for compiling)18:58
imbrandonjust setup a i386 chroot18:58
gesersure, but you'd need an i386 pbuilder for that18:58
somerville32How do I do that with sbuild?18:58
cyberixDo Debian developers care about Ubuntu deadlines?18:58
pochuWhy should they care?18:59
cyberixI'm not asking, if they should18:59
pochuUnless they are Ubuntu developers too ;)18:59
cyberixNmap 4.5 was released and I'm wondering, if it will be packaged in time for Hardy.19:00
pochu!info nmap19:00
ubotunmap: The Network Mapper. In component main, is extra. Version 4.20-2 (gutsy), package size 732 kB, installed size 2640 kB19:00
pochu!info nmap hardy19:00
ubotunmap: The Network Mapper. In component main, is extra. Version 4.20-3 (hardy), package size 730 kB, installed size 2640 kB19:00
Kmosit's packaged on debian19:00
Kmosneed to wait for have it in hardy =)19:01
pochucyberix: you can request a sync - you will need a good reason in order to have it accepted.19:01
imbrandonKmos: wait for what ?19:01
geserPTS lists 4.20-3 for nmap as the last version19:01
somerville32Kmos, DIF is enacted19:01
pochuKmos: we are past DebianImportFreeze, so waiting won't help19:01
Kmospochu: i mean.. wait for someone of us to sync it =) hehe19:01
pochu      nmap |     4.20-3 | http://ftp.de.debian.org sid/main Sources19:02
Kmosand i think lamont changed it to zenamp as a new package in debian19:02
cyberixKmos: It is?19:02
imbrandonpochu: and a good reason isnt so much needed untill FF19:02
Kmosso it isn't at archive19:02
pochuimbrandon: then why stop autosyncing? :)19:02
imbrandonto begin stablizing the apps19:02
DktrKranzand avoid to include more transitions which could be overlooked19:03
Kmosnmap 4.49~rc6-119:03
Kmos4.50-1 source i38619:03
Kmosdebian bug 45623219:04
ubotuDebian bug 456232 in nmap "New upstream version 4.50" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/45623219:04
cyberixI suppose some of the major highlights (the ones that come with a text paragraph) from http://insecure.org/stf/Nmap-4.50-Release.html might be good reasons.19:07
slicersomerville32: Did you have any comments about mumble?19:08
somerville32slicer, It looked decent19:08
somerville32slicer, I only had time to look at the  diff though19:08
slicersomerville32: Ok. Thanks :)19:08
* somerville32 wonders how to set up an i386 chroot19:10
gesersomerville32: with debootstrap19:12
geserand the right options19:13
gesersomerville32: something like "debootstrap --arch i386 gutsy /path/where/chroot/to/store http://archive.ubuntu.com"19:15
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
\shphew...new intel p4 emt64 desktop is up and running :)19:18
pkernThere are still P4s? (:19:21
\shpkern, yepp...19:22
\shpkern, at least our old hardware from the company ,-()19:22
\shat least I can testbuild 64bit stuff again19:22
pkernWhile my laptop is a bit clumsy it's fun with the repaired panel and faaaast...  :D19:24
\shpkern, but does it has a 500G sata hd? ;)19:25
pkern\sh: Point.  Just 120G.19:25
pkernNow 500G would be overly large anyway.19:25
pkernI hardly fill the 400G disk attached to my slug.19:26
pkernBut for LVM snapshots and sbuild... heh. ;o)19:26
\shwell, I just grabbed some old server hw from our company as well. 2x 19" Dual PIII 1GHz ...19:26
\shthey have ide2scsi interfaces, so you can plug into plain ide hds19:26
pkern\sh: Now that would be nice.  To hook up19:26
Chipzz\sh: why does a *server* need a 19" screen? :P19:26
pkern\sh: Gah.  "some" to the university network.19:27
\shproblem: they need sdram, which I try to sdhoot on ebay the next dace19:27
\shChipzz, not? damn ;)19:27
Chipzzor do you mean rackmountable? :)19:27
\shchillywilly, rackmountable19:27
* pkern giggles.19:27
\shI mean19:27
Chipzzoh, that's making a whole lots more sense :)19:27
* Chipzz slaps self :P19:28
pkern\sh: Of course you've got a rack in your basement :-P19:28
\shif anyone is interessted, next week I get hands on a complete rack, filled up with old HPÜ hardware19:28
pkernWhat's "old"? :-P19:28
\sh3 or 4 1U HP stuff, and at least 2x 550019:29
\shfully functional19:29
Nafallothose are huge...19:29
Nafallo...and old :-P19:29
\shthe complete rack with all the stuff inside 400 euro ,-)19:29
\shanyone wants to buy it?19:29
imbrandonif it dident cost so much to ship i would19:29
\shwell, you need to come to germany to pick it up, sadly ,-)19:29
imbrandonyea, cant do that heh19:30
* pkern hasn't got the space.19:30
\shwell, another idea is to call the guys from linux4africa project to take them to their place19:30
* Nafallo doesn't need old stuff :-)19:30
Nafalloor hmm19:30
Nafallo\sh: any Cobalts? :-)19:31
pkern\sh: What kind of machines are those, anyway?19:31
\shpkern, I'll give you more infos on monday, with pictures and all the things someone needs19:31
\shpkern, the guy is giving me all the informations19:31
* chillywilly evals some \sh 19:31
\shNafallo, no cobalts19:32
\shNafallo, or you those machines which are shown in the middle of this article http://www.sourcecode.de/content/it19:32
ScottKHeya pkern.19:32
* \sh needs to adjust back from logitech to sun type 6 keyboard hacking 19:33
pkernScottK: Working on it, just hacking the changelog.  :-P19:33
ScottKpkern: Great.  Thanks.19:33
* Nafallo waits for the page to load19:33
* ScottK just got lucky and got about 30 minuts to work on stuff due to schedule shifts.19:33
pkernScottK: uploaded19:34
pkernScottK: Do you have any documentation about .la removal?19:34
ScottKpkern: I think you want StevenK19:34
ScottKpkern: Thanks.19:34
\shNafallo, need more netspeed? ,-)19:35
ScottKIsn't tab completion fun.19:35
pkern\sh: *cough*19:35
\shpkern, hmm?19:35
pkernScottK: That one sleeps. \:19:35
pkern\sh: data center fun19:35
\shpkern, it's the past the datacenter cells are empty now...19:35
\shbut the machines are still there19:36
Nafallo\sh: yes please.19:36
\sh2796,50 Euros19:36
\shbut you need to pick them up at the companies HQ19:36
\sh2 years ago their price was round about 12k per server19:37
pkern\sh: If I had to start a web business... maybe.  ;o)19:37
\shpkern, na...you don't want that19:37
NafalloI like cobalts. they are blue :-)19:38
\shpkern, no crap...I had the whole ubuntu package archive (including source) + the whole SLES9 archive + opensuse archive *(2 archs) on those machienes...I didn't even had 1TB..I mirrored debian (i386 only but with source) for unstable stable oldstable...and it came just around 1.5TB19:39
\shNafallo, I don't like cobalts, because I made them orange in the past...19:39
\shNafallo, no joke...19:39
\shNafallo, we had a job from cobalt and a local telco who wanted to sell orange cobalt cubes these days in the 90ties19:40
\shNafallo, problem...the outside needed to be orange (which was not the problem) but the whole webstuff needed to be orange too...19:40
Nafalloah, cubes.19:40
NafalloI was talking about raqs :-)19:40
\shNafallo, cobalt raqs were evil too, raq1 + 2 were crap because of logfiles and mails in the quota of the user19:41
pkern\sh: Sure such machines are fun, just a little bit... costly. ;o)19:41
NafalloI'll probably run Ubuntu on mine ;-)19:41
Nafalloshe's named smurf btw.19:42
Nafallojust waiting for the new fans to arrive now :-)19:42
\shand raq3 well...the fcking guy of development manager didn't include any of my packages...but he was sitting on my chair damn...that was before sun was buying cobalt19:42
Nafallothen it will go in THE.19:42
Nafalloand she's a RaQ 4 ;-)19:42
\shpkern, yepp...that's why we had to build new datacenter cells around those machines...even the racks are not standard19:43
\shpkern, rital racks -> you need 4U for those servers, but they are 3U high...19:43
\shpkern, so we needed special racks....19:43
Nafallosounds like a DDoS-cluster :-P19:45
\shwell, in the first days I rolled out 200 servers with FAI...with some seti@home client on it...top 3 in one week19:45
\shone 100 machines more and I would have beaten HP to death these days19:46
\shand I would have been the one who found the aliens who say always "NI!"19:46
\shNafallo, NI! they are aliens..they don't know the char "h" ;)19:47
Nafallo\sh: sounds like french people ;-)19:48
\shNafallo, yeah, aliens ,-)19:48
* \sh runs19:48
\shhmmm...what do I have to do to get flash on 64bit?19:49
Nafalloinstall gnash?19:49
Nafalloinstall flash?19:49
stgraberaptitude install flashplugin-nonfree19:49
stgraberworks fine with nspluginwrapper19:49
somerville32Is it safe to delete /var/apt/archive ?19:50
Nafallodo I want to upgrade my laptop to hardy yet?19:50
\shDownload done.19:50
\shmd5sum mismatch install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz19:50
\shThe Flash plugin is NOT installed.19:50
Nafallosomerville32: I wouldn't.19:50
Nafallo\sh: -proposed I think19:51
Nafallosomerville32: apt-get clean19:51
stgraber\sh: yes, you can read about that on ubuntu-devel :) (basically new flash breaks with konqueror so we don't have an updated package yet)19:51
Nafallostgraber: I installed one just today?19:51
stgraberNafallo: I'm running Hardy here, that's like with any devel release. Everything works well if you now how to fix it and carefully choose what to upgrade :)19:53
\shanyways....I'll deal with it later on..now it's time for some relaxing duties...like cooking19:53
stgraberhmm, maybe the new md5 is on -proposed but breaks konqueror, I haven't personally checked. I just saw the post on ubuntu-devel19:53
Nafallostgraber: I've done all the others except warty. I'll see if I pop by a DC tomorrow then :-). thanks.19:54
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
zxczxcAlex look that- http://wolfgang-city.myminicity.com/ind20:01
imbrandon\sh_away: flash in gusty is broke, i have an update in -proposed atm ( it breaks konqueror though only use it with firefox )20:01
Nafalloimbrandon: why does it break konq though? that seems just weird :-)20:03
imbrandonNafallo: konq dosent support XEmbed20:04
imbrandonand the new flash requires it20:04
Nafalloimbrandon: how silly of it :-)20:04
=== bigon_ is now known as bigon
=== alleeHol is now known as allee
=== jussi01_ is now known as jussi01
imbrandonhrm boring day20:56
DktrKranzimbrandon, let's make it better with a shiny meeting, then :)20:57
tritiumimbrandon: you have time for boring?20:57
imbrandontritium: only today, its a layed back saturday :)20:57
tritiumimbrandon: good :)20:57
imbrandonDktrKranz: not for 1 more hour correct ?20:57
DktrKranzimbrandon, 21:00 UTC, IIRC20:58
DktrKranzand it is :)20:58
imbrandonmmm but i did manage to get alpine setup almost the way i want20:58
imbrandonall imap folders showing, gpg signing , keymaps , etc :)20:58
DktrKranzOk, ping us when ready20:59
norsettowhat meeting was I missing?20:59
DktrKranznorsetto, motu-sru, for defining new policy21:00
norsettoDktrKranz: oh right21:00
norsettoDktrKranz: I'm joining you then (in listen only mode)21:01
DktrKranznorsetto, naaah.... propose mode is better :)21:01
imbrandonjdong / TheMuso ping re: #ubuntu-meeting21:02
norsettoDktrKranz: :-X21:02
DktrKranzhoping it won't be a two-person meeting, sound like a rendez-vous to me :)21:04
norsettoDktrKranz: if imbrandon is the bad and you are the good this doesn't leave me much choice .....21:06
DktrKranznorsetto, the... erm... ugly?21:06
norsettoDktrKranz: yeah ....21:06
Hippuuhi, it seems that tuxguitar package in ubuntu is somehow broken21:08
Hippuuthere are no binaries of it in repos21:09
Hippuuand it should probably be in universe instead of multiverse21:11
norsetto!info tuxguitar gutsy21:11
ubotuPackage tuxguitar does not exist in gutsy21:11
norsetto!info tuxguitar hardy21:11
ubotuPackage tuxguitar does not exist in hardy21:12
Hippuui can download it's sources with apt-get source21:12
somerville32!info tuxguitar dapper21:12
ubotuPackage tuxguitar does not exist in dapper21:12
TheMusoimbrandon: sorry I'm late21:12
gesertuxguitar never built succesfully21:13
geserMissing dependencies: libswt-gtk-3.221:13
Hippuuubuntu has libswt3.2-gtk-java21:15
geserHippuu: if it's the same package, then someone needs to fix the build-dependency e.g. by providing a debdiff21:20
LaserJockimbrandon: did I miss it?21:31
imbrandonLaserJock: its going on right now21:31
imbrandoncome join us21:31
cbx33hey peeps22:10
cbx33how are network devices named/mapped in ubuntu?22:10
Nafallocbx33: #ubuntu22:10
nixternalhowdy peep!22:12
nixternalPete :)22:12
LaserJockcbx33: hi Pete22:14
cbx33hey duuudes22:14
cbx33long time eh22:14
norsettonetwork devices are named/mapped in ubuntu as pete?22:14
nixternalno doubt cbx33, where you been hiding?22:14
nixternalgroovy...how ya likin' the job?22:15
cbx33yeh it's good22:15
cbx33i actually have money to buy stuff22:15
cbx33the old job budgets were so tight I couldn't do anything22:16
nixternalgood, send me some then :)22:16
nixternalI need a new bowling ball, can you provision that? :p22:16
cbx33howz it all going here nixternal, LaserJock ?22:16
nixternalgoing about as good, or bad, as it always has I guess :)22:17
cbx33switching interface22:17
nixternalworking on different projects now just to stay sane22:17
=== pete_ is now known as cbx33
cbx33hey hey22:19
cbx33sorry was resetting my gateway22:19
cbx33now to see if the bug returns22:19
cbx33my WifiCard AP seems to be working better22:22
nixternalthat's always a good thing22:22
cbx33hostapd + madwifi22:22
cbx33I had a pci network card that was getting the eth1 transmit timeout error22:22
cbx33and freezing all nics22:22
nixternalwifi is just evil for me22:23
cbx33let's see how long he lasts22:26
pkernHm, who was it who set up sbuild+LVM for package building?  persia?22:31
* Fujitsu has it working.22:33
geserpkern: yes, iirc there is also wiki page22:34
huatshey dear MOTUs22:34
geserpkern: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto22:34
cbx33right brb22:35
norsettodear? who's dear?22:36
huatsnorsetto: you :)22:37
huatsnorsetto: how are you ?22:37
pkerngeser: Well I get an obscure "sid-26079e91-10ac-41a0-8a8a-b65b888726ba: Chroot not found".22:37
huatsnorsetto: pfff lately it is so hard to find some time to come here...22:37
FujitsuSounds like the snapshotting failed.22:37
pkernFujitsu: The snapshotting works fine with schroot alone.22:38
FujitsuI was about to suggest you try that.22:38
FujitsuSo schroot alone works fine?22:38
LaserJockjdong, TheMuso, imbrandon: if we keep the tags then they should show up on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html22:38
FujitsuYou get a shell and all?22:38
TheMusoLaserJock: SOunds fair.22:39
cbx33i think it worked22:39
cbx33hey TheMuso22:39
TheMusocbx33: Hey there.22:39
jdongLaserJock: well that's a nice incentive to do so22:39
pkernFujitsu: Yep.22:39
pkernFujitsu: Hm gotcha.22:39
Fujitsupkern: How many times have you got that error?22:39
pkernRemoving the apt-get update hook I added due to a howto got me a meaningful error message.22:40
cbx33who would have though22:40
norsettohuats: yes, so it was for me22:40
cbx33a slightly knackered pci card22:40
pkernBut sbuild wouldn't cache the debs it downloads right?  Unlike {p,cow}builder?22:41
LaserJockTheMuso: you know anything about that usplash-theme-ubuntustudio package in gutsy SRU?22:41
cbx33could throw out WPA authentication on hostapd+madwifi for non Windows Xp clients22:41
TheMusoLaserJock: Yes, it needs testing.22:41
TheMusoLaserJock: I was the one who uplodaed to proposed.22:41
pkernFujitsu: I thought that I tried it in the sudo su - pkern shell to obtain the sbuild group, but due to root-users=pkern it did not display a failure message earlier.  OBscure that is.22:41
Fujitsupkern: Correct, it won't cache. I use apt-cacher, but one could fairly easily create a shared /var/cache/apt/archives22:41
TheMusoLaserJock: I was planning on trying to get some wider testing, with a script to make usplash display with some text.22:41
pkernFujitsu: Hm ok.22:42
* TheMuso shared apt/cache/archives between several sbuild instances.22:42
pkernTheMuso: through schroot?22:42
TheMusopkern: Yes.22:42
pkernTheMuso: Aye.22:42
TheMusoI just modified /etc/setup.d/10mount to mount an NFS share I have set up.22:42
LaserJockholy cow, mldonkey has been in -proposed for 276 days!22:43
pkernBy the way: Anyone on feisty who could try a gajim SRU? (:22:44
cbx33I got a question for you22:44
Fujitsupkern: I thought Nafallo was doing the SRU.22:44
cbx33hang on 2 secs22:44
pkernFujitsu: Probably we mean different SRUs? o_O22:45
Fujitsupkern: Well, I know he was considering SRUing something about it a week or so ago.22:45
pkernHm, that matches, though.22:45
LaserJockFujitsu: do you happen to know if LP can remove packages from a pocket yet?22:46
FujitsuLaserJock: It can.22:46
Fujitsupitti cleaned out -proposed a while back.22:46
pkernNafallo: LP: #174406 -- Are you in a position to confirm that fix?22:47
NafalloFujitsu: no. I've asked for backports.22:47
Nafallopkern: nope. only have gutsys around.22:47
cbx33LaserJock, got a sec?22:47
Nafallopkern: looked sane though22:47
FujitsuNafallo: Ah.22:47
pkernNafallo: Considering that it worked on our pool of Etch machines...  :-P22:47
Nafallopkern: :-)22:47
LaserJockthere are 9 packages in -proposed over 120 days22:48
pkernNafallo: Could you comment that "looked sane" to the bug report please?22:49
* Nafallo fails to install JeOS :-/22:49
Nafallobug 17440622:51
ubotuLaunchpad bug 174406 in gajim "feisty: gajim does not start up correctly " [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17440622:51
pkernNafallo: Thanks.22:53
Nafallono worries22:55
jdongDo I need to do anything else to bug 163283 for a SRU to go thru?22:55
ubotuLaunchpad bug 163283 in gtkpod-aac "[SRU/Gutsy]: Two patches for gtkpod-aac" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/16328322:55
jdongI've already marked it verification done and subscribed -archive22:55
=== jpatrick_ is now known as jpatrick
Flare183Why do I keep getting this error: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/48389/  ?23:12
FujitsuFlare183: Your changelog is bad. Use dch to edit it in future.23:13
Flare183Fujitsu:> ok23:14
LaserJockspecifically it says line 5 of debian/changelog23:14
LaserJockthese shipit envelopes are kinda fun to read23:43
FujitsuLaserJock: Are they?23:43
LaserJockyeah, they have a whole thing about Canonical, *buntu, etc.23:43
FujitsuOh, right, that.23:44
imbrandonLaserJock / TheMuso : wiki updated23:57
TheMusoimbrandon: ok will have a lok shortly.23:57
LaserJockimbrandon: do we want a set of links for MOTU SRU like Ubuntu SRU has at the bottom of the page?23:59

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