[00:02] nalioth, if you're still around, could you add me on the ops list for #kubuntu-offtopic ? [00:23] Well, I'm about to go live with the thing. If anyone wants to check the list of channels: ubuntuircstats.org/list.txt [00:23] I'll be back in a few! === crdlb_ is now known as crdlb [00:43] stdin called the ops in #ubuntu (AlgorthmicContro dangerous command) [00:45] he's doing other channels now too [00:46] he hit up u-w [01:46] We should organise a Council meeting sometime. [01:46] Night [01:49] better later than sooner [01:52] lol @ LjL [03:31] fignew called the ops in #kubuntu () [03:34] nixternal: klined [03:34] thanks [03:34] he was doing the same garbage last night [03:34] he's been doing the same thing for weeks [03:34] different nick [04:34] kahrytan called the ops in #ubuntu (skyfalcon866) [04:34] skyfalcon866 called the ops in #ubuntu (kahrytan) [04:35] hehehe [04:35] erm, sorry, ut that's a bit humerous [04:36] skyfalcon866 called the ops in #ubuntu+1 (pici) [04:38] skyfalcon866 called the ops in #ubuntu+1 (ubotu) [04:38] fark!#@# [04:38] hrm? [04:38] what happened to ops in +1 [04:38] I dont have access there. [04:38] someone ban that idiot [04:38] nixternal: who / why ? [04:38] akyfalcon866 [04:39] why: because he is an idiot [04:39] I just removed them from #ubuntu [04:39] quick log summary perhaps? [04:39] bah [04:39] 23:31:58 ubuntu is a fresh pile of monkey poop [04:39] 23:32:15 skyfalcon866, demand a refund then. [04:39] 23:33:10 ubuntu is a fresh pile of monkey poop [04:39] 23:33:46 Ubuntu is one of them simple distros [04:39] 23:33:56 !op | skyfalcon866 [04:39] Then he !opsed at kahrytan, at which point I banned him. [04:40] lol [04:41] wtfucklafjde084308432 [04:41] don't sit there and stair at the f'n troll [04:41] one of them simple ones [04:41] stare too [04:41] nixternal: Sorry - fresh install - had to go find the op script :S [04:41] hahahaha [04:41] I used to, or thought I used to, have ops in there [04:42] Which incidentally is still on the backup on the external hard drive [04:42] I don't know why you wouldn't... [04:42] lol... /abk [04:42] tonyyarusso: There's an ops script? [04:42] /abk [04:42] hahaha [04:42] irssi screaming - YOU DON"T HAVE ABK!!! [04:42] I use a bunch of irssi aliases [04:42] Oh, auto_bleh.pl [04:42] ya [04:42] love that script [04:42] it is the easiest [04:42] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/USTeams/Ircops for xchat.... [04:43] thank you nixternal (wrt #kubuntu) [04:43] ardchoille: yeah, a slightly customized version of bleh is what I use. [04:43] I knew he would be doing that [04:43] atopance (sp) posted a bunch of aliases on his blog, from which I slightly modified for myself on irssi. [04:43] and then he messages me with "I'm done" [04:43] Pici: pon [04:44] tonyyarusso: I got my version from tomaw.net [04:44] Pici, url please :) [04:44] nixternal: Yes, he *is* done, lol [04:44] exactly what I told him :) [04:44] hehe [04:44] I said "yes you are, have a nice day" [04:44] ah, atoponce wrote it based off seveas' chanserv.py script [04:45] no0tic: http://www.pthree.org/2007/07/11/irssi-chanserv-and-nickserv-helper-aliases/ [04:45] Pici: Thanks [04:46] ardchoille: I got mine from Seveas, who had gotten it from someone else and added some bits, and then I added some bits. [04:46] methinks auto_bleh should have some bzr repositories [04:46] I agree [04:47] I made it add anyone I removed/banned to my hilight list by hostmask. Can be pretty handy in recognizing people. [04:47] totally, and it needs to be updated so it doesn't spit all of that info out at you [04:47] Nice [04:47] it floods a screen when you ban/kick someone [04:50] true [04:50] I'd imagine that's as simple as commenting out some print statements [04:51] ya, but looking at perl is like looking at myself in the mirror..one huge mess :) [04:55] lovely bit of spam from LCh in #ubuntu ... [04:55] where can I find auto_bleh.pl? [04:56] no0tic: Uncle Google will show you [04:58] nalioth, I found this http://rzlab.ucr.edu/debian/auto_bleh.pl_ didn't find the "official" page if exists [04:58] nalioth, alsa found a tomaw page on this [04:58] no0tic: I use tomaw's version [04:58] no0tic: no idea - I've only seen it transferred by DCC and the like :P [04:59] and there's no google for dcc transfers :) [05:00] ah, http://ircarc.com/network/freenode/ <--- another logging bots site.. [05:02] k-lined long ago :) [05:03] fine :) [05:20] lol a little bit of doc or comments in the script would help :) [05:22] no0tic: are you busy? [05:23] nalioth, no, I'm trying to understand every command of auto_bleh.pl [05:23] nalioth, ok, then I will document it.. [05:24] no0tic: the server sent you a message [05:24] 16/12 06:21:43 [freenode] -!- you: No such nick/channel [05:25] that? [06:16] test please [06:18] have you followed the instructions, spr0k3t ? [06:22] I went back to my own network... I had to use a neighbors for a while. [06:22] I know my router/network is good. [06:22] ok [06:23] ok, you can rejoin #ubuntu now (and welcome back home) :D [06:24] yeah, no kidding... power is back on. thank god the battery backup I have lasted me for longer than a day. [06:24] waveroos [09:18] In ubotu, four-o-four said: This is an autoreply: I am not currently available, please leave your message.I'll get back at you as soon as possible. [09:18] hmm.. [09:19] thats what my ansaphone says [10:07] soldats called the ops in #ubuntu ([MxPm]Synz-Nein) [10:08] soldats called the ops in #ubuntu ([MxPm]Synz-Nein) [10:09] damnit, we need more ops in #ubuntu [10:09] lol :) [10:11] whats the ubuntu koren support channel? [10:12] Arelis called the ops in #ubuntu () [10:13] thanks tomaw [10:13] np [10:14] Do you have a korean support channel at all? [10:15] that was not korean, afaik [10:15] He's said it is to me and some other staff [10:15] but yeah, #ubuntu-ko [10:16] In ubotu, four-o-fou1 said: This is an autoreply: I am not currently available, please leave your message.I'll get back at you as soon as possible. [10:16] again? [10:16] tomaw, I saw you use auto_bleh.pl, does it ban other stuff other than hostname? [10:17] nope, it only does hostnames currently [10:18] afyk is there anything like that for weechat? [10:18] *afayk [10:22] I've not really looked at weechat too much [10:22] It has lots of scripting support though, so it would hopefully not be too difficult to create [10:24] I'm trying to spread the use of auto_bleh to the others -it ops, but few use irssi.. [10:24] Ah :) [10:24] You could ask in #weechat, they seem quite friendly people [10:24] chanserv.py works well for xchat [10:25] tomaw, thanks :) [10:26] In ubotu, four-o-fou1 said: This is an autoreply: I am not currently available, please leave your message.I'll get back at you as soon as possible. [10:27] 3 [10:28] wow, so much idle chatter in #ubuntu this morning [10:34] is anyone awak? [10:35] snmpee is trolling in #ubuntu [10:35] tomaw: are you awake still maybe? [10:35] I am [10:37] can you again police ubuntu and rid them of aegis and snmpee? [10:37] very much a rules digression there [10:38] I can take a look, certainly [10:40] pesky nick completion [10:44] * Dave2 hands tomaw a mind-reading tab key [10:45] :D [10:45] I'm sure it'll come in handy. [10:45] wrong knockout? :) [10:47] I only used +q, so it didn't really matter too much [10:55] If more help is needed in #ubuntu, I'll gladly help out if someone adds me to the access list for that channel. [10:57] * Hobbsee joins it, to watch [10:58] I banned [MxPm]Synz-Nein and removed him from the channel [10:59] He's not exactly being polite to me in private and I can believe that he's sending users crap when they talk [10:59] Anyway, that's me gone for a bit. Enjoy :) [11:00] thanks tomaw [11:00] hiya all [11:00] hi jussi01 [11:00] hiya ardchoille [11:01] who are the bot gurus among us? [11:01] mmmm [11:03] depends on the def'n of a bot guru [11:03] just my bot is being naughty... keeps deciding to join #ubuntu and #kubuntu if I start her. sigh... dunno how to fix it and Im sure nobody wants it in there... :( [11:04] jussi01: what bot? [11:05] Hobbsee: just a private one of my own. I used it once as a backup for ubotu and now it wont not join. (bot name she_said) [11:05] jussi01: yeah, but what is it/ [11:05] what type of bot? [11:05] supybot [11:06] ubotu clone basically. [11:06] it should be in the .conf file that you specified, then [11:06] in "supybot.networks.[NetworkName].channels: ..." [11:06] Hobbsee: yeah, I played with that, but it didnt seem to do anything. [11:06] while the bot is not running (where it will hose your changes if it is), remove the cahnnels from the autojoin [11:06] * jussi01 goes to look [11:07] see, i have: supybot.networks: freenode [11:07] thats it [11:08] yup [11:08] which is correct [11:08] but it's got channels listed there [11:08] did you have the bot running while you were playing? [11:08] ahhh, found it now. [11:08] you can edit it with "@config supybot.networks.freenode.channels: #channels #you #want" if it's running (where '@' is the character it responds to) [11:09] ok, all sorted! :) [11:09] thanks Hobbsee stdin [11:14] you're welcome [11:16] :) === mc44_ is now known as mc44 [16:06] Bandwidth Down/Up(kbps) 2356 / 144 [16:06] That's madness [16:18] PriceChild, how so? [16:19] somerville32: so low, you go mad over it? [16:20] I'm downgrading to 1mbs/128kbs [16:20] Is it that horrible? [16:20] I currently have 7mbs down/256kb up === jussi01_ is now known as jussi01 [16:21] somerville32, wow, that's ~7 seconds for a 1GB file [16:21] but thats a estimate [16:22] You mean for a 100mb file? [16:22] somerville32, yes, thats right, i was wrong ;-) [16:22] I've got 512/ something [16:22] I'm happy as can be [16:22] mobile Internet <3 [16:23] i have 5/3 atm, until I get my sorry butt down to the place and order my 10/10 [16:23] * jussi01 hugs Myrtti - spring is good!! [16:24] you mean the theme? [16:24] just emailed them a new version [16:24] Myrtti: yep! [16:24] and a fresh new screenshot [16:24] Myrtti: Im off to check it out.. :) [16:24] and a brand new theme too [16:24] I wonder how long it'll take them to actually update it to the site ;-) [16:26] Myrtti: any chance of an email with it coming my way? [16:29] take a catch, trying to send it as dcc [16:29] :-P [16:31] hmmm, how do i accept that in irssi...?? [16:32] /dcc get [16:32] :) [16:33] another one coming [16:33] thanks! [16:37] basically the new one is like the old, but it acts more nicely if you have a dark background color [16:37] ahhh, nice [16:37] I think I also have tweaked the hilights someway [16:37] highlight me? [16:37] jussi01: are you positive? [16:38] yes!! I like it! [16:38] /me doesn't like hilighting people in vain [16:38] /me doesn't like hilighting people in vain, jussi01 [16:38] the hilight with not b0rked /me is broken still [16:38] I should have a look at that [16:39] hmmm, when you higlight like the second time, it comes up with: RedMyrtti [16:39] ?? [16:39] it does? [16:39] wow [16:39] which one? [16:40] yeah... [16:40] <+RedMyrtti> /me doesn't like hilighting people in vain, jussi01 [16:40] spring or dark_winter? [16:40] spring [16:40] funny, doesn't do that with me [16:40] /me pokes it more [16:41] hmmm, maybe its my konsole doing funny stuff.. [16:41] Ill try xterm... brb === mc44_ is now known as mc44 [16:45] gah, that was horrible [17:31] is the flashplugin still b0rken? [17:34] people complain about it [17:34] but it's been removed from the topic [17:35] i suppose whoever removed it had their reasons [17:38] it should be fixed [17:38] where is ikonia ? [17:39] hi assilva, can we help you? [17:40] LjL, pla [17:40] LjL, nao thanks [17:40] assilva, uhm, then may i know why you joined? [17:40] LjL, obrigado eu so entrei para conhecer [17:41] wha?? [17:42] thanks, I joined to know [17:42] jussi01: he said thanks i just joined out of curiosity [17:42] ahhh, thank you :) [17:49] somerville32, because I spend about 40 weeks of the year on 18/2.5 M [17:50] : O [17:50] * somerville32 dies. [17:50] * PriceChild grins [17:51] * jussi01 steals PriceChild's bandwidth... [17:52] PriceChild: with all due respect and from the bottom of my heart with all my love: shuddup. [17:52] <3 [17:52] I betcha wanna kill the dong hey? [17:53] the dongs connection is very enviable.... Lynch him!!! [17:54] * PriceChild runs off whilst you're all distracted [17:54] what does jdong have? [17:55] somerville32, he's at MIT ;) [17:55] well not now, tis back for hols [17:55] Myrtti, flashpluggin is fixed in -proposed I think. [17:55] *plugin [17:56] PriceChild, Unless you use konq [17:57] It kills konq [18:05] What happened to it btw? [18:06] md5sum mismatch [18:06] (ie. new version of Flash) [18:12] lokito is insulting us [18:14] Jack_Sparrow, where? [18:14] in ubuntu [18:14] in spanish [18:17] tonyyarusso: macromedia has a single install_flash_9.tar.gz type file that may change versions, hence md5sums, as Adobe puts out new versions [18:17] tonyyarusso: and the "archived" versions are in a 60MB tarball with every version released in the past decade [18:17] retarded upstream syndrome, in other words :) [18:17] jdong: aaah [19:06] Grr I guess that was a server death? None of my other connections reset so hoping its not just me [19:06] PriceChild: it's just you [19:06] Grrr what's going on with me then :/ [19:07] you is br0ken [19:29] hi sysdef [19:29] hi nalioth [19:30] i need to test the performance of a servicebot for #ubuntu-de* and i need a hightraffic channel. so i want to ask for permission to join #ubuntu and i want a quiet for it. is there a way? [19:31] sysdef: we can quiet it alright, we just want to know that it's not gonna be otw disruptive [19:32] sysdef, what are its names? [19:32] the bot will just join, stay there for a while for masurement and part. not spamming or public loggin of course [19:32] ompaul: xbot [19:32] measure* [19:32] nalioth, you want to do it [19:33] ompaul: i just wanted everyone to know about it [19:33] as they should ;-) [19:33] ompaul: i actually do a rewrite for shetlandpony, the servicebot of #ubuntu-de* [19:33] its is bonned [19:34] muted even [19:34] ahh, ok [19:34] ompaul: it's not always gonna be identified [19:34] nalioth, true but atm it will be [19:34] thanks a lot. i'll tell when the tests are over 8) [19:34] nalioth, if I see it not ided then I'll give it a lash [19:35] ompaul: look at #ubuntu scrollback [19:36] nalioth, to be sure to be sure :) [19:37] ban the ident [19:37] (mute that is) [19:37] LjL, it is now [19:47] first test was nice. old engine need about 2 sec. to proceed 50 channel user. the new one need >4 sec. for 1270 user [19:48] sysdef: engine of what now? [19:48] oh, nvm /me reads scrollback [19:48] 0) [19:49] i'll stay in #ubuntu-irc and poke when the test over 8) [19:50] Mez, got connection problems? [19:50] heads up [19:50] [19:51] Who gave him fish?! [19:51] I just ban forwarded this nick: Sinobeus aka Sinobeus aka Dmitrys aka W0lD to name but a few [19:51] That's mine :( [19:51] nickspam was the reason [19:53] can't comment it yet [19:54] ompaul, bip proxy sucks [19:54] Mez, suggest direct connection [19:55] ompaul, it just sucks [19:55] * tonyyarusso wonders whether other Ubunteros one too many mailing lists would find the results of his e-mail reorg. helpful [19:56] tonyyarusso, mail is a pain if you can help document and get some quite opinions and then consider [19:57] for F***K sake [19:57] ompaul: sure. Mostly it's been transforming what was essentially an one-layer "all things floss" folder into multiple levels of logical sense [19:57] Mez, connect directly and id to the server [19:58] tonyyarusso, it is the only way to survive [19:58] :) [19:58] ompaul, I'm commected directly now [19:58] did it years ago [19:58] That and filters to go along with them. - also essential. [19:58] Mez, now /msg nickserv etc [19:58] tonyyarusso, procmail evolution thunderbird [19:58] I had things like Ubuntu/Lists/sounder before, but Ubuntu/Lists has like 70 things in it, not arranged below that level prior to this week. [19:59] ompaul: procmail? [19:59] ompaul, I'm not that much of an idiot - lol - just too used to being auto-id'd [19:59] tonyyarusso, google is your friend - [19:59] Mez, you may not have noticed that you had not ided that was all [19:59] ompaul: I'm semi-familiar with what it is, I think, but I'm not sure what it does for me. [19:59] tonyyarusso, ;-) [20:00] tonyyarusso, smart host rules and grabs and delivers to such an infrastructure [20:00] ompaul: One thing I _really_ want to do is strip off the annoying "[marketing]" and such bits from subject lines so I can read the real subject. Can procmail do that? (IMAP, btw) [20:00] procmail could help you [20:01] cool [20:01] could but your scripting will be smarter [20:01] tonyyarusso, that is interesting how do you follow threads then === jpatrick_ is now known as jpatrick [20:02] um, ompaul [20:02] ompaul: I already know that it's from the marketing mailing list from the Reply-To line - I don't need redundant information. [20:02] ompaul, utty is asking "anyone know a key gen for hsfmodem to enable full speed" [20:02] ompaul, in #ubuntu [20:03] bah [20:03] kbrooks, no idea [20:03] * tonyyarusso will take that one. [20:03] is that a piracy issue [20:03] or something [20:03] ompaul, "key gen"... illegal [20:03] yes a piracy issue it seems [20:03] thanks [20:04] ompaul, np [20:05] ompaul: It is, yes. [20:05] * tonyyarusso has an hsfmodem as well, and a purchased key [20:06] They offer a trial version so people can check that they've actually found the right driver for their modem, but if it works, it's limited to 11 kbps instead of 53. For $19.99 you get an enabling code to up it to full speed. [20:06] tonyyarusso, well, i marked that question as offtopic :) [20:07] Aside from asking other people to share their keys, you should also be aware that their are instructions floating through the tubes for doing it without a key by modifying a bit in a hex editor, which I haven't tried, but from what I've seen has like a 50/50 success (probably depending on version differences) [20:10] tonyyarusso, Thank you for that. [20:10] np [20:10] At least I can put that week of my life I lost learning about winmodems to some good use... [20:11] tonyyarusso, hehe :-) === gouki_ is now known as gouki === jpatrick_ is now known as jpatrick [20:38] nalioth, elkbuntu, LjL, Thoughts on ubuntu/bot cloak for ubuntustats? [20:38] ( http://ubuntuircstats.org ) [20:38] do we want it being 'official' ? [20:40] I'm not sure........? :) [20:40] It would be nice for it to gain that status, but I'm not sure about it at the moment, as I haven't followed recent developments on that front. [20:40] * tonyyarusso used to talk to the guy running it regularly, hasn't in months. [20:40] he's been away for months [20:41] http://www.lyricsandsongs.com/song/589010.html [20:41] currently on my player [20:43] ompaul: Where would I find that song? [20:45] PriceChild: i'd like to see a link to the source code used on the web page [20:46] gouki, ^ [20:46] Sure [20:46] And BTW, hi tonyyarusso :) [20:46] LjL: The .html pages you see with the statistics are created by a .c script, called irssistats. [20:47] gouki: yes, i knew that was the case, but i think it would be nice if it were stated, at least as a tribute to the developers of irssistats [20:47] oh hey gouki [20:48] LjL: It is stated. On the page of every channel statistics [20:49] (scroll to the bottom of the page) [20:50] what is the URL these days? (And why can't I find it out easily?) [20:50] uhm ok, still wouldn't mind a mention on the main page, but i guess it's ok anyway [20:51] PriceChild: i'm fine with a cloak [20:51] tonyyarusso: It has a second-level domain now (ubuntuircstats.org) [20:51] I still haven't blogged or told anyone about it, besides talking about it on this channel [20:51] Would you mind if we did? [20:52] tonyyarusso: No, not at all [20:52] 'k [20:52] gouki also, can you please give the bot a more meaningful ident than "bot"... "ubuntustats" probably doesn't fit, but "ustats" or something [20:53] !ircstats is Fun statistics about some Ubuntu IRC channels are available at http://www.ubuntuircstats.org/. LoCo team leaders can also request to have their channel stats collected. [20:53] I'll remember that, tonyyarusso [20:54] gouki: do you list the LoCo ones elsewhere, or has noone asked? [20:54] !logs [20:54] Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ [20:55] !no logs is Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ - See also « /msg ubotu ircstats » [20:55] I'll remember that LjL [20:55] !no ircstats is Fun statistics about some Ubuntu IRC channels are available at http://www.ubuntuircstats.org/ - LoCo team leaders can also request to have their channel stats collected. [20:55] tonyyarusso: better to avoid periods after URLs [20:55] (Note: !stats is taken by an internal Supybot function.) [20:56] (or any punctuation without a space ftm) [20:56] I'll remember that LjL [20:56] LjL: True. [20:56] tonyyarusso, it should work anyway [20:56] !stats is ircstats [20:56] I'll remember that, LjL [20:56] !stats [20:56] Fun statistics about some Ubuntu IRC channels are available at http://www.ubuntuircstats.org/ - LoCo team leaders can also request to have their channel stats collected. [20:56] LjL: I wasn't going to without checking with Sev* about whether he actually wanted that information available. [20:57] LjL: Working on it. tonyyarusso, no one asked [20:57] tonyyarusso: uh... what information? [20:57] gouki: Intriguing. Care to make #ubuntu-us-mn the first then, just for giggles? Not sure how much that impacts your system resources, so if it's a problem don't, but it could be cool. [20:58] tonyyarusso, it is from the 50s [20:58] LjL: 14:48 I have 55 registered users with 30 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 2 admins. [20:58] tonyyarusso: Sure. I'm thinking about going with the first LoCo request. After a few I'll have to start ignoring request, cause otherwise, the VPS just won't be able to take it. [20:58] Is the bot in #xubuntu, -devel, and -ofttopic ? [20:59] !forget stats [20:59] I'll forget that, LjL [20:59] somerville32: Not on -offtopic [20:59] somerville32: it is [20:59] ah well not on x-offtopic no [21:00] gouki: where we you running the bot before btw? Just a home machine? I'd love to, but I can't seem to find someone easily that will allow IRC bots. (Would prefer if I could make the shell account part free, since I am paying for web hosting now.) [21:00] tonyyarusso: VPSLink.com [21:00] tonyyarusso: free shell account allowing bots? hardly. [21:00] gouki: probably should add that one too, since the other two offtopics are included [21:01] tonyyarusso: Done [21:02] tonyyarusso: VPSLink.com is not expensive, and it's kinda cool for this kind of stuff [21:03] How often do the pages get updated? [21:03] somerville32: I'm going to configure cron to run irssistats every 5 minutes [21:03] Can you run it now? :D [21:03] Generating all the .html from the different channels [21:03] somerville32: Heheh. Sure [21:03] gouki, given the sheer numbers 10 mins is more like sane [21:04] gouki, so it gets to rest [21:04] :) [21:04] somerville32: Done [21:04] ompaul: yeah, probably not a bad idea :) [21:04] gouki: what timezone is the server in? [21:04] tonyyarusso: Don't know. I configured it to UTC [21:05] gouki: ah, that's what I really meant anyway [21:06] :) [21:07] guys, just so I can organize irssistats conf file, do you think all the main ubuntu channels are there? [21:07] * tonyyarusso goes to look in his logs directory [21:11] gouki: +1 and -locoteams are the other potentially interesting ones I can think of. [21:13] tonyyarusso: Good idea! I'll take care of it. [21:14] ck omar.. [21:16] GTG. I'll come back after dinner and hopefully finish everything up. [22:02] Pelo has been removed from #ubuntu access by his request. [22:02] Okay. [22:03] PriceChild, Do you need to update the factoid? [22:03] somerville32, no. [22:09] !no ops-#ubuntu-us is Help! nixternal. pleia2. atoponce. etank. Zelut or jono! [22:09] I'll remember that PriceChild [22:10] uhm i knew that they used . rather than , for *decimal numbers* in the US [22:10] but i didn't think that applied to lists of ops as well [22:12] hahahaha [22:12] * ompaul buys LjL a nice tea [22:13] s/nice/ice [22:13] that is the usa style tea [22:13] LjL, whoops... my right hand too far right [22:13] !no ops-#ubuntu-us is Help! nixternal, pleia2, atoponce, etank, Zelut or jono! [22:13] I'll remember that PriceChild [22:14] some data standards would say that there should be no commas in the list [22:14] others would want one for each [22:15] no thanks, i'd rather have nice but not ice [22:15] it's already cold enough [22:15] drop table ompaul; [22:16] haha [22:16] oooch my toe [22:16] Regardless, I really hate having commas between the rest, but not after Zelut. [22:17] tonyyarusso: heretic. [22:17] LjL: It introduces grouping ambiguity in multi-word list elements that include joining words. [22:17] well you're American :P [22:17] We english has proper grammer. [22:18] and spelling [22:19] #ubuntu is looking odd.. === Mez is now known as Mez__ [22:20] tonyyarusso: (to (really remove) ambiguity) ((you would (have to)) use (a ((much more) sophisticated) (parenthesizing system))) [22:20] LjL: Agreed. [22:20] * tonyyarusso sometimes actually does that [22:20] PriceChild: thank you for telling us everything's normal [22:20] mc44 does that too [22:20] Well , then and a few other joins... [22:21] LjL: But that's no excuse for unnecessarily adding a layer of confusion that has no other reason to be there than that you felt like it. [22:22] tonyyarusso: and perhaps the fact that "," is a separator and "or" is also a separator, so redundant separators don't make much sense. also the somewhat vestigial, but still not negligible, fact that a comma is/was used to indicate a pause in speech, pause which is not pronounced (at least by me) between the last two elements of a list separated by "and" or "or". [22:24] LjL: really? I totally put a pause there. [22:25] tonyyarusso: well perhaps that might explain why americans tend to like the comma there. [22:27] It is optional but I generally put it [22:28] One, two, three, and four. [22:42] kbrooks, wols, can I help you? [22:43] upgrading to gutsy, brb [22:55] mneptok, I see RMS and TDR are having fistycuffs on a mailing list near openbsd [23:14] ompaul: oh? [23:14] kbrooks, wols, can I help you? [23:14] mneptok, tomaw, it is painful: http://www.nabble.com/Real-men-don%27t-attack-straw-men-tt14256924r0.html [23:15] PriceChild, if you dont want me here i'll go [23:16] PriceChild? [23:18] Back in a bit. Time to image my partitions.