[01:21] <troy_s> Wholly phoop those spec pages are depressing to read.  Mark should invest 10 million dollars to purchase a clue for all of the commenteers.
[01:22] <troy_s> To be fair, not all.  But a disproportionate 'gnome-look-percentage' perhaps.
[02:10] <Toma-> what are you whining about? :D
[02:10] <Toma-> *link*?
[02:28] <troy_s> Toma-: Just the specs.
[02:28] <troy_s> Toma-: Check the topic.
[02:56] <Toma-> ok, i agree.
[02:57] <Toma-> troy_s➜ have you seen fedora 8 yet?
[03:02] <troy_s> Toma-: Yeah it saddens me.
[03:03] <Toma-> yeh its pretty flash sounding, but seriously, is it going to make it easier to use?
[03:03] <troy_s> Toma-: We now form the unholy trinity of worst case design.  Tepid.  Bland.  Unsuccessful.
[03:03] <troy_s> Toma-: Hrm?
[03:03] <Toma-> rhetorical question :)
[03:04] <Toma-> ive been playing with some layouts in e17. trying to make a more dynamic work flow
[03:05] <troy_s> Toma-: I was greatly disappointed when I heard Diana had left Red Hat.
[03:05] <Toma-> :o
[03:06] <Toma-> why?
[03:06] <troy_s> Toma-: She is working with a video game company in California.
[03:06] <Toma-> (did she leave?)
[03:06] <Toma-> awww
[03:06] <Toma-> bugger :(
[03:06] <troy_s> Toma-: Worse, the sad timing of the article which claimed "Red Hat has been the best looking distribution for a while..." was right on time with Fedora 8 -- the _worst_ release for them out of the past four.
[03:07] <Toma-> heh :/
[03:07] <Toma-> well I hope its inspired some more people
[03:07] <troy_s> Toma-: Rather ... appropriate.  They should have done that interview when she dropped the Fedora 7 work.  It just goes to show you that Free Software might not be ready for the true designers out there just yet.
[03:07] <Toma-> that way it wont be a loss
[03:07] <troy_s> Toma-: Red Hat should probably have offered her more money and given her the keys to the car.
[03:08] <Toma-> i thought she was already in control of most of the direction?
[03:08] <troy_s> Toma-: She was quite exceptional and an asset to FOSS.
[03:08] <troy_s> Toma-: Well like anything, she probably had her hands, arms, legs, and other body parts crimped all to hell by people who inevitably 'know better'.
[03:09] <troy_s> Toma-: Despite the fact that she was probably the only one at Red Hat with a degree in fine arts.
[03:09] <troy_s> (MFA)
[03:09] <Toma-> mmm
[03:10] <troy_s> Toma-: We have had a long string of very talented artists and designers pop up and around...
[03:11] <troy_s> Toma-: G. Sartori (Brazil institute of design grad), Coz (fine arts grad from Spain iirc), Damian Villa (Grad from Spain again iirc)
[03:11] <Toma-> troy_s➜ yeh, alot of people usually give up straight away when no-one appreciates their work
[03:12] <troy_s> Toma-: Well it isn't about appreciating the work (although that is probably a good portion of it)
[03:12] <Toma-> if its not a Vista clone, then the general population wont give a crap
[03:12] <troy_s> Toma-: It is an antagonistic culture devoid of a willingness to change.
[03:12] <Toma-> yep.
[03:13] <troy_s> Toma-: I would like to hope that that isn't the case.  A good deal of people want something distinctly 'them', and the first sign of a 'knockoff' probably repels more than anything.
[03:13] <Toma-> i was having a chat to darkmatter the other day about a simple UI. one that uses speech to text recognition, and an AI bot that can parse to commandline or something
[03:14] <troy_s> Toma-: If history shows us one thing, the quest for an xxx Killer (such as iPod killer) etc. seems to be regularily met with failure.  While you are busy creating the 'WalkmanKiller' the completely-different-thing-iPod comes out and kills it.
[03:14] <Toma-> the components are out there in the land of FOSS, no-ones plugged them together yet tho
[03:14] <Toma-> ineed
[03:14] <troy_s> Toma-: Darkmatter's last effort has really impressed me.
[03:14] <Toma-> *indeed
[03:15] <troy_s> Toma-: There is something 'wonky' about the font he chose, but the interface regarding buttons and 3D subtlety is amazing.  I would only probably tweak the top light to top left.
[03:15] <Toma-> yeh
[03:15] <troy_s> Toma-: Minor detail -- it is leagues in front of the most of what I have been looking at.
[03:16] <Toma-> personally, im sick to death of win95 layouts and feels
[03:16] <Toma-> to be frank, the usual gnome layout is just that with an extra panel
[03:16] <troy_s> Toma-:  Absolutely.  I give a hearty plus one to the gOS guys for saying 'bugger it' to the G / K duality and forging on ahead with e
[03:17] <Toma-> http://members.iinet.net.au/~haste/e17/layouttest.png
[03:17] <troy_s> Toma-: Although Ken's work (the fellow who has been mocking the nights and days away on that theme in the mailing list) has much admirable persistence.
[03:17] <Toma-> current layout im messing with
[03:17] <Toma-> finding it a little heavy on the right. mainly because im spending too much time on irc :)
[03:18] <troy_s> ssh there he is.
[03:19] <_MMA_> :P
[03:22] <troy_s> Toma-: I should probably get easy_e working again.  It bombed out on last attempt.
[03:22] <troy_s> Toma-: Do you do any SLR photography or like work?
[03:23] <Toma-> nah i dont have a camera
[03:23] <Toma-> (im a music teacher)
[03:23] <Toma-> (on school holidays :>)
[03:25] <Toma-> E is handy for tinkering with layouts and feels
[03:25] <troy_s> Toma-: That Crud?
[03:25] <Toma-> hu?
[03:32] <troy_s> Toma-: Is that Crud?
[03:32] <troy_s> Toma-: Erm... Buuf.
[03:33] <Toma-> ...yeh a little bit of buuf
[03:33] <Toma-> :D
[03:33] <Toma-> was giving it a try
[03:33] <Toma-> i made a KDE desk with buuf. not very cool.
[03:33] <troy_s> Toma-: How does the filemanager look by default now in E?  Screenshot?
[03:33] <Toma-> very artistic, but not very comfortable
[03:34] <Toma-> well
[03:34] <Toma-> its got a toolbar... and location and navigator plugins for it
[03:34] <Toma-> i havent themed it too deeply yet in my theme
[03:38] <Toma-> http://members.iinet.net.au/~haste/e17/efm.png
[03:38] <Toma-> you can theme the toolbar in it. i just made mine the same at the background colour so far and the buttons of course, can be modified
[03:46] <troy_s> Toma-: Yes... I am aware that E is very themable.  I was just wondering about the default.  Last time I tried the icon size was hideously small.
[03:47] <Toma-> you can change that in the config
[03:47] <Toma-> you can have like, 200px icons?
[03:47] <troy_s> Toma-: Yes... what was the default?
[03:47] <troy_s> Toma-: Do you have entrance running?
[03:47] <Toma-> oh... i cant remember :| gimme a sec
[03:47] <Toma-> nah i use KDM
[03:48] <Toma-> 48 is default
[03:57] <troy_s> Toma-: Is entrance stable ?
[04:00] <Toma-> well i know people use it, but i dont.
[04:00] <Toma-> as for e17 itself, I use it daily. firefox crashes more often than it
[04:01] <Toma-> ive got to go. lunch time
[04:01] <Toma-> theres a few devs lurking in #e at the moment if you need to know more
[13:37] <lapo> hi
[16:11] <_MMA_> darkmatter: You got time to poke around a metacity.xlm later for me?