[00:31] <mtaylor> anybody around with deb packaging zen enough to answer a question about pre-depends? 
[00:34] <Fujitsu> mtaylor: You're probably better off asking in #ubuntu-motu, but I might be able to answer it.
[00:34] <Fujitsu> (note that using Pre-Depends in a PPA package will, at the moment, make apt want to eternally upgrade it)
[00:34] <mtaylor> Fujitsu: well, I've got a package with a Pre-Depends: and when I build it locally it's fine. But when I put it in a PPA package, it strips it
[00:34] <mtaylor> hm
[00:34] <Fujitsu> That's right.
[00:34] <mtaylor> why is that? 
[00:35] <Fujitsu> It should only be in the Packages file, I think. If you try to install it, does it respect the field?
[00:35] <mtaylor> no
[00:35] <Fujitsu> Gaah.
[00:35] <mtaylor> when I do an apt-cache show, it doesn't show on the ppa version in the cache
[00:35] <Fujitsu> It's a bug in the PPA generation code, which *might* be fixed in a couple of hours, but I'm not quite sure.
[00:35] <mtaylor> ok
[00:35] <mtaylor> good. at least it's not me!
[00:36] <mtaylor> but I didn't think it was - since the  upstream debian version of essentially the same control file works
[00:36] <mtaylor> thanks!
[00:36] <Fujitsu> If you apt-cache show it after installing it, you should get at least a couple of entries. DOes one of them have the Pre-Depends field?
[00:37] <mtaylor> yes. the one from ubuntu gutsy
[00:38] <Fujitsu> Which PPA is the broken package in?
[00:38]  * Fujitsu will just check that this is indeed the problem.
[00:38] <mtaylor> http://ppa.launchpad.net/mysql-enterprise-pkg-testing/ubuntu
[00:39] <mtaylor> mysql-server-5.0 should predepend on mysql-common
[00:39] <mtaylor> while I'm bugging you... do you happen to know the difference between ${Source-Version} ${source:Version} and ${binary:Version}? cause lintian tells me to use binary:Version, but I can't find docs about the different var ANYWHERE
[00:43] <Fujitsu> The first of those is deprecated.
[00:43] <Fujitsu> The changes are fairly new, and I don't believe there's much on them.
[00:43] <Fujitsu> The source:Version is the version of the source package, and the binary:Version that of the binary, unsurprisingly.
[00:43] <Fujitsu> In Ubuntu, they should always be identical, but not so in Debian.
[00:44] <mtaylor> Fujitsu: sweet. 
[00:44] <Fujitsu> (I've looked at the Pre-Depends issue, and indeed it is the usual issue of the omission of some fields in Pre-Depends)
[00:44] <mtaylor> awesome
[00:44] <mtaylor> so it's theoretically fixed in the new push ? 
[00:45] <Fujitsu> I would check if there is a fix, but the bug is marked private.
[00:45] <Fujitsu> It may be.
[00:45] <mtaylor> that's nice
[00:45] <mtaylor> :)
[00:45] <mtaylor> well, I'll reupload tomorrow and see if it builds right
[01:32] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: finally!
[01:34] <Fujitsu> Yay.
[01:34]  * mtaylor feels he's missed something
[01:34] <mtaylor> but that's ok
[01:35] <Fujitsu> No more pkgbinarymangler over PPA.
[01:35] <mtaylor> w00t
[01:35] <Fujitsu> Nor ddebs, by the looks, which is good.
[01:35] <Hobbsee> mtaylor: you should read hardy-changes.  it's interesting :)
[01:35] <poolie> so, i guess there's no way to build packages for debian rather than ubuntu in PPAs?
[01:35] <Fujitsu> poolie: Not at this point.
[01:35] <Hobbsee> poolie: nope
[01:35] <mtaylor> Hobbsee: whereis? 
[01:36] <Hobbsee> mtaylor: hardy-changes@lists.ubuntu.com
[01:37] <mtaylor> awesome!
[01:39]  * Fujitsu wonders why he can access LP.
[01:39] <poolie> why not?
[01:39] <Fujitsu> I thought downtime was meant to start 40 minutes ago.
[01:43] <poolie> Fujitsu, i don't see any mail about it
[01:43] <poolie> but, then, i might not
[01:43] <Fujitsu> See news.launchpad.net, though there should have been a mail.
[01:51] <poolie> Fujitsu: 
 I think news.l.n is wrong then :)
[01:51] <Fujitsu> I would presume so.
[01:51] <poolie> he thinks its tomorrow
[01:52] <Fujitsu> There were no emails, and no notice of impending doom on LP.
[01:52] <Fujitsu> Aha.
[01:52] <Hobbsee> that's because their email went down before the rest of it
[01:52] <poolie> heh
[01:52] <poolie> oops
[01:52] <poolie> our mail seems to be generally up now...
[02:16] <ubotu> New bug: #177368 in launchpad "Mailing list address are hardcoded to lists.launchpad.net" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177368
[02:21] <ubotu> New bug: #177371 in launchpad "Label 'For this mailing list...' is cramped" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177371
[02:49] <mtaylor> anybody know if there are plans for being able to delete stuff from launchpad? 
[02:49] <Hobbsee> lp doesn't delete.
[02:49] <mtaylor> ok
[02:49] <Hobbsee> says in their privacy policy
[02:49] <Hobbsee> some bits can appear to be deleted
[02:49] <Fujitsu> What in particular are you looking to delete, mtaylor?
[02:50] <Hobbsee> but really arent'.
[02:50] <mtaylor> Fujitsu: I was thinking of killing a project or two to consolidate
[02:50] <mtaylor> Fujitsu: but it's not important enough to bother someone with
[02:50] <mtaylor> other than general wondering about the idea of a feature
[02:51] <Fujitsu> Ah. Those can be deactivated by poking a Launchpad administrator or asking a question on the launchpad project on LP. It's good to keep things clean.
[02:51] <mtaylor> ok. well I'll do that if I actually get up the energy to reorg. :)
[02:53]  * Fujitsu commends the LP devs on this release: most of the targetted stuff has actually been done :)
[03:06] <thumper> Hobbsee: well, some things can be deleted
[03:06] <Hobbsee> thumper: not from librarian, etc, though
[03:06] <Hobbsee> or backups
[03:06] <thumper> well, the librarian does remove things that are no longer referenced
[03:07] <thumper> it is that most of the references aren't deletable :)
[03:07] <Hobbsee> heh :)
[03:07] <thumper> links are deletable
[03:07] <thumper> like bug-branch or spec-branch links
[03:07] <thumper> projects normally just get deactivated
[03:07] <thumper> mtaylor: you can request that an admin deactivates your projects if you are wanting to consolidate
[03:39] <jml> Fujitsu: thanks!
[03:40] <Fujitsu> It is a relief to not see lots of things being deferred right at the end of the cycle, which seems to have been the norm lately.
[03:42] <jml> Fujitsu: just curious, why is it a relief?
[03:43] <Fujitsu> Because bugs often get deferred release after release, so one gets an expectation that it will be fixed in a couple of weeks, only to find out just before it's meant to land that it won't appear for another couple of months.
[03:44] <jml> Fujitsu: from my pov, it was simply a change from "here's what we want to do" to "here's what we are going to do"
[03:44] <jml> ahh ok
[03:44] <Fujitsu> That is a good thing.
[03:44] <jml> (typing slow, learning dvorak)
[03:45] <Fujitsu> Hah, I am too. I had a lot of `z,cb' last week (attempting to type QWERTY /win on Dvorak)
[03:46] <jml> :)
[03:47] <jml> lots of "e.u" and "y.op" for me
[03:47] <jml> (guess what I do for a crust)
[03:48] <jml> err... y.oy
[03:48] <jml> (so hard to go back, so hard to go forward)
[03:54] <Fujitsu> It's rather odd to not be able to type particularly quickly at the moment, but I'm getting better.
[03:55] <jml> odd? damn frustrating is how I'd put it
[03:55] <Fujitsu> That too.
[04:36] <poolie> you'll like it when you get there
[04:36] <Fujitsu> Mhm.
[04:36] <poolie> and you'll appreciate the little bumps on F and J :)
[04:36] <poolie> just don't look down :)
[04:36] <Fujitsu> There is no reason to look down.
[04:37] <Fujitsu> Well, unless you memorise the mapping, I guess...
[04:39]  * Hobbsee wonders how one goes about learning dvorak, if one can't see any keyboard
[04:40] <poolie> when i did it, i put a printout of the layout on the desk, and used that only when i forgot where things were
[04:40] <poolie> and just remembered relative to the home row
[04:41]  * Fujitsu learnt the home row, and then learnt that much suffering would ensue if he didn't learn the rest.
[04:41] <Fujitsu> That helps.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> heh
[05:00] <jml> poolie: I've actually moved the keys around :/
[05:00] <poolie> the keycaps
[05:00] <poolie> not a bad idea
[05:01] <poolie> but, may be problematic when you need to use someone else's machine
[05:01] <jml> poolie: but that means I've lost my bumps
[05:02] <jml> poolie: I went for a couple of days with the original layout
[05:03] <jml> I hope dvorak doesn't mean that I'll forever lose my ability to touch type
[05:04] <Fujitsu> I originally tried to move all of mine, but discovered that Dell has put different layouts on the bottoms of some keys, so they won't fit elsewhere.
[05:05] <jml> macbooks are nice :)
[05:05] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[07:45] <ubotu> New bug: #177401 in launchpad "Provide a way for users to edit their profile data from login.launchpad.net" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177401
[09:35] <ubotu> New bug: #177424 in rosetta "Wrong exception when omitting parameter to upload form" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177424
[12:21] <mtaylor> kiko-phone: morning -- when you get a sec, I'd love to bug you about Pre-Depends
[12:21] <mtaylor> statik: are you honestly awake already? (or still awake?)
[12:29] <mtaylor> is it still the case that I shouldn't use bzr+ssh to push to launchpad? Or has bzr 1.0 been installed? 
[12:30] <Hobbsee> bzr 1.0 is out
[12:30] <mtaylor> Hobbsee: and installed on launchpad? 
[12:30] <mwhudson> rollout is later today/early tomorrow
[12:30] <mtaylor> ok. so I should continue to use sftp for now
[12:31] <Hobbsee> mtaylor: good question.  was assuming so, but appraently not
[12:31]  * Hobbsee has been using bzr+ssh for ages, regardless
[12:31]  * mtaylor has too
[12:31] <mtaylor> but just heard there was some problem with using it with launchpad... 
[12:31] <mtaylor> better safe than sorry
[12:31] <spiv> mtaylor: bzr+ssh has been supported for launchpad for ages
[12:31] <mtaylor> someone yesterday said something about version mis-match or corruption or something
[12:32] <mtaylor> just with 1.0 vs. not-1.0 I think - or I could just be on crack
[12:32] <mtaylor> but if no one else is aware, then I'm guessing it's the crack
[12:32] <spiv> Sort of; it's to do with different default formats if it's the bug I think it is.
[12:32] <spiv> If you bump into it, you can always fallback to sftp://
[12:33] <spiv> It's fundamentally a bzr bug, not a launchpad bug though.
[12:33] <mtaylor> great. so it's not going to eat my data
[12:33] <mtaylor> yes, of course. certainly not blaming launchpad :)
[12:33] <spiv> Nope, no data eating.
[12:34] <mtaylor> yay! the data eating monster is full
[12:34] <spiv> I don't think any data has been eaten in the lifetime of that service, in fact.
[12:34]  * Hobbsee sacrifices a goat to launchpad, in the hope that anything she uploads doesn't get eaten.
[12:35] <spiv> (or if it has, it wasn't important enough data for someone to file a bug about it ;)
[12:35]  * mtaylor has had a little data eaten - but it was bzr's fault again... and really /me's fault
[12:35] <mtaylor> ok. so I ran rm -rf on the wrong thing... 
[12:36] <spiv> Heh.
[12:36] <spiv> Yeah, there's a limit to what bzr can do about that.
[12:36] <Hobbsee> spiv: or is it accepted as a fact of life that launchpad, particularly soyuz, likes eating things...
[12:36] <mtaylor> NO. It should solve ALL of my problems
[12:37] <spiv> Hobbsee: I'm not familiar with the details of soyuz bugs (happily)
[12:37] <spiv> Hobbsee: so I'm going to pass on that question
[12:38] <Hobbsee> hehe
[12:38] <Hobbsee> spiv: wise move :)
[12:38] <Hobbsee> actually, i haven't seen soyuz eat anything of mine in a while
[12:38] <spiv> If you have a bzr bug, I'd be happy to talk about that ;)
[12:38] <Hobbsee> perhaps that's because i've not actually *uploaded* much in a while
[12:38] <spiv> Well, it's time for holidays anyway...
[12:39] <Hobbsee> yeah well
[12:40] <ubotu> New bug: #177447 in malone "A bug I have reported does not show on my 'Bugs reported by' page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177447
[12:41] <Fujitsu> Duuuuupe.
[12:42] <spiv> Fujitsu: maybe it's a dupe of something they already reported ;)
[12:52] <mtaylor> tags still not supported by bzr on launchpad? 
[12:53] <mtaylor> bzr: ERROR: Tags not supported by BzrBranch5('bzr+ssh://monty@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Endb-connectors/ndb-connectors/devel/'); you may be able to use bzr upgrade --dirstate-tags.
[12:54] <kiko-phone> mwhudson, ddaa?
[12:54] <ddaa> they are
[12:55] <mtaylor> bzr upgrade --dirstate-tags bzr+ssh://monty@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Endb-connectors/ndb-connectors/devel/
[12:55] <mtaylor> bzr: ERROR: The branch format Bazaar-NG meta directory, format 1 is already at the most recent format.
[12:55] <ddaa> mh
[12:56]  * ddaa checks
[13:02] <ddaa> mtaylor: the branch format is "Branch format 5", so it should be upgradable
[13:02] <ddaa> mtaylor: we have weird stuff with bzr upgrade over bzr+ssh. Does it work better over plain sftp?
[13:03] <ddaa> I mean, "bzr upgrade --dirstate-tags" ovef sftp://
[13:09] <mtaylor> ddaa: I will try
[13:10] <mtaylor> ddaa: it seems to be working... (or at least doing something :) ) 
[13:10] <ddaa> good
[13:10] <ddaa> btw, if you want the full detail of the format versions, use "bzr info -v"
[13:10]  * mtaylor keeps forgetting to try sftp when bzr+ssh fails
[13:11] <ddaa> there are really three format versions for any branch on launchpad: the bzrdir, the repository, and the branch. The two latter being components of the bzrdir.
[13:11] <mtaylor> so if I upgrade my branch, I'm not upgrading my repository, right? 
[13:11] <ddaa> right
[13:12] <ddaa> tags are not versioned, they are just metadata in the branch, nothing is stored in the repository about them.
[13:12] <mtaylor> ah. that answers my question :)
[13:24] <ddaa> hopefully, the bzr+ssh problems will improve when we deploy bzr 1.0 server-side later this week.
[14:10] <ubotu> New bug: #177467 in soyuz "Redesign distribution/+ppas page" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177467
[14:27] <jonasbjork> mwhudson: did you look at my import issue today?
[14:27] <mwhudson> jonasbjork: ddaa and i had a quick look
[14:27] <mwhudson> we didn't conclude very much though :/
[14:27] <jonasbjork> something went very wrong? ;)
[14:27] <ddaa> the pserver is giving a nonsensical answer, that we cannot reproduce by hand
[14:28] <jonasbjork> is berlios.de blocking launchpad maybe?
[14:28] <ddaa> my hunch is that since the cvs server protocol is intended to be used by a dumb cvs client (the cvs client is really just an interpreter for commands sent by the server)
[14:28] <ddaa> it would cache some state about what the tree would look like
[14:29] <ddaa> and when it receives some request to checkout something, it sometimes assumes that the client already has the data on disk and sends nothing
[14:30] <ddaa> since our import system is nothing like a normal cvs client, it seems plausible to me that we sometimes break such assumptions
[14:30] <ddaa> It's a fairly long shot, but that's the only explanation that comes to my mind.
[14:31] <jonasbjork> so best thing for me is to checkout cvs and import it into bazaar and then abandon berlios?
[14:31] <ddaa> I guess that this could be worked around. When we hit this particular nonsensical condition, we could start a new pserver connection to clear any server-side state.
[14:32] <ddaa> jonasbjork: if you intent is to perform a one-off migration
[14:32] <ddaa> you could try bzr-cvsps
[14:33] <ddaa> http://bazaar-vcs.org/CVSPSImport
[14:33] <ddaa> that does require you to have the cvs repo on a local filesystem though
[14:35] <ddaa> or you could try tailor too
[14:35] <jonasbjork> i'll try
[14:35] <ubotu> New bug: #177470 in launchpad "branch +associations page should show if branch is dev focus of a series" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177470
[14:37] <jonasbjork> i can't remove/change trunk 
[14:37] <jonasbjork> source details
[14:39] <ddaa> jonasbjork: you should be able to, now
[14:40] <jonasbjork> no control or bazaar
[14:41] <jonasbjork> and my "trunk" is gone
[14:41]  * ddaa clears everything
[14:41] <jonasbjork> thanks
[15:02] <jonasbjork> This branch has not been scanned yet.
[15:02] <jonasbjork> that means that my files are processing?
[15:02] <mwhudson> jonasbjork: yes
[15:02] <mwhudson> jonasbjork: should only be in that state for a few tens of seconds
[15:02] <jonasbjork> it works :)
[15:03] <jonasbjork> mwhudson: once again, thanks for your help.
[15:03] <mwhudson> jonasbjork: np
[15:30] <ubotu> New bug: #177484 in launchpad "Registry admins should be able to see +review pages" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177484
[15:45] <ubotu> New bug: #177491 in launchpad "Need "Grid view" of projects " [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177491
[16:21] <ubotu> New bug: #177495 in malone "Bug watches should handle remote private bugs gracefully" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177495
[17:36] <ubotu> New bug: #177505 in malone "too hard to unsubscribe from bug reports" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177505
[17:39]  * pochu finds too hard to subscribe to bug reports too
[17:40] <pochu> bug 6457
[17:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 6457 in malone "Subscribe should work in one click" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6457
[17:44] <kiko> oy!
[18:03] <pochu> Hmm, I just received a mail which says that I've been subscribed to a blueprint. But doesn't say who subscribed me! :)
[18:21] <ubotu> New bug: #177508 in blueprint "Tell who subscribed you to a blueprint in the notification mail" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177508
[18:46] <jeromeg> hello
[18:47] <jeromeg> where should I ask for a removal of a particular package of a ppa ?
[18:47] <kiko> see topic
[18:47] <kiko> answers.launchpad.net
[18:47] <jeromeg> thank you kiko
[18:47] <kiko> you're welcome jeromeg 
[18:52] <kiko> jeromeg, just saw that go in; mthaddon will sort it out as soon as he has a free moment.
[18:53] <jeromeg> kiko: thank you very much, can i upload a package with the same name, but for the gutsy series ?
[18:53] <kiko> jeromeg, not with the same version number
[18:53] <jeromeg> kiko: ok thank you
[19:00] <ubotu> New bug: #177516 in launchpad "Add archive test to mlist integration tests" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177516
[19:20] <ubotu> New bug: #177519 in blueprint "No way to mark a blueprint invalid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177519
[19:20] <ubotu> New bug: #177520 in malone ""Give feedback" is confusing and loses data" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177520
[19:25] <kalib> afternoon
[19:25] <kalib> hey guys...anyone here is already using Kubuntu 8.04 ?
[19:28] <kalib> i just wanna know if that problem with notebook ATI sound is ok now on 8.04... :/
[19:30] <ubotu> New bug: #177523 in launchpad "new mailing lists don't get public archive symlink" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177523
[19:35] <pochu> kalib: not the best place to ask, try #ubuntu+1
[20:25] <ubotu> New bug: #177538 in launchpad "The hardware database page is using the wrong template displaying a 'no title'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177538
[20:50] <ubotu> New bug: #177541 in launchpad "Cannot import git branches" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177541
[20:50] <mwhudson> duplicate!
[20:54] <poeloq_> re
[21:43] <batoms> could someone please do a bazaar upgrade for me at bazaar.launchpad.net/~bauble/bauble/trunk/
[21:50] <Rinchen> thumper, ^^
[22:00] <ubotu> New bug: #177557 in launchpad "Error while uploading file bigger than 60MB in +adddownloadfile form" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177557
[22:35] <pochu> argh with SF publicity mails... I hope you never do something similar :-)
[22:41] <\sh> pochu, "Use LP to make money fast....Collect Karma for Coins" ? ,-)
[22:42] <pochu> \sh: then seb128 would be rich ;)
[22:42] <\sh> pochu, seb128 is cheating :)))
[23:20] <ubotu> New bug: #177571 in launchpad "Need to find a way to migrate mailing lists from production to staging" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177571
[23:20] <ubotu> New bug: #177572 in launchpad "Mailman archives have hardcoded links" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177572
[23:44] <posingaspopular> hey all, i keep getting a 'no data' error when I try to paste a signed Ubuntu CoC into the launchpad