[00:33] whats this with flash being broken? what about it is broken? [00:33] md5sum problem is what people are telling me [00:34] hmm [00:34] so its up at the adobe end.. [00:34] do alder versions work? [00:34] *older [00:35] I seem to remember seeing an LP bug saying the 9.0.48.0.2+really0ubuntu12 works but the newest one is broken [00:36] apachelogger: build failure http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libksquirrel === gryc is now known as grycAFK [00:51] hmm i woner why does wikipedia say konq passes the acid 2 test when it doesnt [00:52] cheguevara_: konqueror4 [00:52] ah lets try that [00:53] no still don't render properly [00:53] hmm you sure? i'm pretty sure konqueror passes all tests. [00:55] looking at it now] [00:55] its got 2 scrollbaars [00:55] ff 3 seems to fail as well [00:55] beta2? [00:56] yeah [00:56] well beta 2 rc i think [00:57] ok [00:57] ff3 should pass for certain [01:00] nosrednaekim: http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot4eu3.png === grycAFK is now known as gryc [01:06] cheguevara_: kcolour got uploaded [01:07] nice Riddell, thanks [01:07] all kde4 revus gone then, great [01:07] will resume packaging the rest tomorrow probably [01:07] been busy at work [01:15] hey.... you think we sould add a java IRC applet to kubuntu.org? [01:15] *could [01:18] nosrednaekim: no [01:18] since there's no irc server on that machine [01:18] why not? [01:18] nixternal: could you take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=qdevelop and see if you can advocate it again [01:19] should be ready for upload [01:19] Riddell: remember your "channel is not fully synced yet" error in irssi? [01:19] Tm_T: yep [01:19] I think nixternal is in exams [01:19] Riddell: I have it now in #ubuntu [01:20] Tm_T: nasty [01:20] aye [01:20] you don't need for an irc server to be on the same machine as java applet [01:20] Tm_T: I had to /disconnect and /connect [01:20] I refuse to do so [01:21] cheguevara_: you'd need a server of some sort, and I'm pretty sure the sysadmins won't allow it [01:21] Riddell: Is there any common way to deal with missing icons in KDE menus for gnome apps, which have the icons in artwork packages? [01:22] Riddell, you just make it connect to irc.freenode.org [01:22] txwikinger: fix the gnome package [01:22] to depend on the artwork package? [01:22] cheguevara_: the java applet? fortunately java applets can't talk to random machines [01:23] txwikinger: no, by putting the icon in the package where it belongs [01:23] Riddell, i have one for my network [01:23] on a completely different server [01:23] txwikinger: why would a hicolour icon be in an artwork package anyway? [01:24] I don't know.. maybe in order to have different themes [01:24] txwikinger: what's the package and the icon you're talking about? [01:24] cheguevara_: I'm unconvinced [01:24] well there are several ones... serpentine is one of them [01:24] Riddell, pjirc.com [01:24] cheguevara_: further freenode won't want anonymous gateways [01:25] that might be true [01:25] http://java.freenode.net/ [01:25] they got their own anyway :P [01:25] You can link to ours, and send users right to your channel. Use the link: [01:25] http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=yourchannel [01:25] voila [01:26] I'll leave that to mhb and the new website [01:26] :P [01:26] oh we getting a new website [01:26] * nosrednaekim love giving mhb things to do.. [01:27] Icon=gnome-dev-cdrom-audio oh crivvens [01:27] cheguevara_: so where is that icon found? [01:27] mm, no [01:27] txwikinger: so where is that icon found? [01:27] i was about to say :P [01:27] I'm quite certain it won't be in hicolour [01:28] /usr/share/icons/gnome/22x22/devices/gnome-dev-cdrom-audio.png [01:29] txwikinger: that'll be a bug then. unfortunately it's the sort that people often don't care about since it only shows up to users of the other desktop [01:29] Riddell: gnome-icon-theme-* [01:29] yes you got the right one [01:30] for instance... the compizconfig-control center has absolutely no icons at all. [01:30] txwikinger: the way to fix it is by putting that icon into the serpentine package and installing to /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps/serpentine.png [01:30] ok.. thanks Riddell [01:30] nosrednaekim: same issue I expect [01:30] I will do this and continue with all those other packages that I find like that [01:30] <_< [01:30] diffs for icons are tricky too, you need to use diff -ua and uuencode it [01:31] thanks txwikinger [01:31] as a patch in debian? [01:31] txwikinger: yes [01:31] yes.. I thought so [01:31] gn8 [01:31] txwikinger: well the icon file can just be uuencoded === Scorcere1 is now known as Scorcerer [01:32] txwikinger: you need to patch the .desktop file and add a rule to uudecode the icons and install them [01:32] right.. do you know an example package? [01:33] well.. I think it is simple enough, I can probably just do it myself [01:34] apachelogger: amarok uploaded to hardy and gutsy-backports but the publisher is turned off for alpha 2 so it won't compile yet [01:37] Amarok2 ? [01:38] Tm_T: 1.4.8 [01:38] aa roger [01:38] apachelogger: I've uploaded it to the kubuntu ppa too [01:38] * Riddell snoozes, at last [01:38] Riddell: sleep well :)) [01:39] good night Riddell === Scorcere1 is now known as Scorcerer === gryc is now known as grycAFK === grycAFK is now known as gryc [02:13] !away > gryc === freeflying_ is now known as freeflying === Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee [03:08] evening [03:12] morning [03:15] I wonder what's with Jucato... [03:17] been eaten? [03:17] well haven't seen him [03:17] i haven't seen him either, haven't been on much lately either [03:17] also he doesn't answer in Jabber either [03:18] * Tm_T is worried [03:27] yeah...... [05:29] bug #177036 [05:29] Launchpad bug 177036 in kdebase "unable to mount hard disks which are not already mounted" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177036 [06:32] Riddell: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyHeron/Alpha2/Kubuntu [06:32] when the Amarok news hits for 1.4.8, we need to toss some features in the release notes [07:01] Since I feel that irc is a bit impersonal for this.. where would I send an email if I wanted to thank the folks who do that packaging? [07:03] ardchoille: the kubuntu-devel mailinglist maybe [07:03] Sounds good [07:04] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel [07:05] ardchoille: since I do all of the work, you can just email me :p [07:05] hehe [07:18] does Kubuntu default to using the system speaker and beeping? like in Konsole? I can't remember [07:19] I don't know, I would go and find out but LimCore annoys me :) [07:21] defaults to using system sounds on my laptop [09:19] <_StefanS_> morning [09:20] <_StefanS_> Riddell: did you get my patch for k3b? === Igorot_ is now known as Igorot [10:19] _StefanS_: yes thanks, but it should wait until alpha 2 is out [10:19] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yep fair enough :) [10:24] is there any way to get the webkit konqui from the livecd on gutsy? [10:35] buz: no, you'd need to compile it [10:36] any reason why the cd doesnt boot in qemu, btw? [10:36] i get bumped to busybox [10:36] buz: the KDE 4 CD? [10:44] yes kde4 rc2 kubuntu live cd [10:44] buz: worked for me in virtualbox [10:45] ** testers needed of amarok in deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu {hardy,gutsy} main [10:45] i get to see the startup screen, but when i hit enter i get some console ouput then busybox [11:11] _StefanS_: doesn't look like alpha 2 is coming out imminently, I've uploaded your patch thanks === uga|away is now known as uga [11:22] nixternal: top work on that alpha 2 page. I've added notes about hard disk mounting and webkit and removed references to LTS since that doesn't seem to apply to us [11:24] hi there [11:24] hi doc__ [11:28] Riddell: Does that mean the Kubuntu won't be supported for three years? [11:36] sebas: mm [11:43] <_StefanS_> Riddell: cool, thanks :) [11:56] Riddell: here's an early christmas present, a ton of debdiffs :) http://paste.stdin.me.uk/diffs/ these fix passing arguments to executables and add PATH to wrapper scripts (needed for things like kfmclient) [11:56] Riddell: What's "mm"? :) [11:59] stdin: cool, thanks [11:59] sebas: "yes, seems so" [12:00] Riddell: Ah, thanks [12:00] Do you know reasons for that? [12:00] sebas: "to concentrate on kde 4" [12:01] Riddell: Aye. Does that also mean Kubuntu Hardy fill have KDE 4 as default desktop? [12:01] sebas: nope [12:01] Ok, thanks for the info :) [12:03] stdin: setting PATH there might stop kde 3 apps from running [12:03] Riddell: what kde 3 apps run from the kde4 wrapper scripts? [12:04] Riddell: Would releasing 3.5.9 have changed anything about that, do you think? [12:04] sebas: dunno, you'd need to ask the tech board [12:04] I'll go hacking on KDE4 instead, I think ;-) [12:05] Sorry for you to hear that it's not supported as well as the GNOME desktop, btw. [12:05] sebas: me too [12:06] OTOH, Qt3 is not supported by TT anymore as well, so that might also be an issue [12:06] Riddell: if you're running a kde4 app that opens another app then you'd expect it to open the kde4 version anyway, so I can't see how setting the PATH can harm anything there (unless you know something I don't) [12:06] stdin: spose so [12:11] stdin: you wouldn't happen to remember who tested kde 4 against libgif would you? [12:11] I think it was cheguevara [12:12] yep, it was [12:13] would make sense to make that change at the same time [12:13] ryanakca: not here, I presume? [12:14] ah, just the man [12:15] * cheguevara looks around [12:15] cheguevara: did you have patches for the libungif -> libgif transition for kde 4? [12:16] yep [12:16] they are in a launchpad bug [12:16] sec let me get the number [12:17] bug 176836 [12:17] Launchpad bug 176836 in kde4libs "Rebuild kde4libs against libgif instead of libungif" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176836 [12:18] also note debian bug 401287 [12:18] Debian bug 401287 in libgif4 "libungif to libgif transition" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/401287 [12:19] cheguevara: this is the more general bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libungif4/+bug/174252 [12:19] Launchpad bug 174252 in libungif4 "transition to libgif" [Undecided,In progress] [12:19] cheguevara: if you fancy taking that on that would be great :) [12:20] Riddell, yep count me in [12:21] am off to work for now though, cya [12:23] win 13 [12:23] tsk [13:02] Riddell: should we add digikam 0.9.3 and new kipi-plugins to Alpha announcement? [13:10] excuse me, kinda new around here. what's the kdebase-bin-kde3 package for? (tried to upgrade amarok using the ppa Riddell gave out) [13:10] Lure: please do [13:11] Riddell: will try to find some links to add [13:11] Jucato: makes kde 4 packages co-installable [13:11] oh [13:12] ubuntu has some nice artwork concepts... [13:12] I really hope Kubuntu would look like that one day, too [13:13] Jucato: did it work? [13:13] just upgrading right now [13:15] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals I like ... looks much more modern than Kubuntu now. [13:15] more modern than current GNOME theme, too. [13:18] i like the notification [13:19] mhb: I don't think that has anything to do with what they'll actually use [13:20] are Ubuntu's menus really rounded like that? O.o [13:20] Riddell: no, it is just community suggestions. [13:23] they look nice though... :) [13:23] also mockups. [13:34] Riddell, nixternal: digikam added, you should fix my english though ;-) : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha2/Kubuntu [13:40] Note to bloggers: experimental packages do not indicate taking a clear position. [13:40] what does that mean? [13:40] I am not getting the you-know-who context of the message. === apache|mobile__ is now known as apache|mobile [13:42] also, the "Tasty menu" suggests that we are going to switch it for K Menu. [13:42] mhb: http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/kubuntus-kde-4-livecd-comes-with-webkit-enabled-konqueror/ [13:46] Riddell: thanks. [13:56] Jucato: can you test amarok in gutsy-backports? [13:56] what is your opinion on Kubuntu vs. Ubuntus configuration tools? [13:56] I mean those that are not shared by both. [13:57] Riddell: I just finished upgrading to the PPA's amarok (1.4.8?) [13:57] Jucato: ok, does it work? [13:57] mhb: I can't say I have one [13:57] works for me, listening now :) [13:58] stdin: in gutsy PPA? [13:58] worksforme2 [13:58] :D [13:58] great [13:58] Riddell: PPA [13:58] amarok 1.4.8 is doing fine here as well, but i am listening only [13:58] I don't see it in -backpores yet anyway [13:58] *backports [13:58] backpores.. lol :) [13:58] where can I read about Kubuntu Hardy not being LTS anymore? (just got back) [13:59] Jucato: it's not written anywhere [13:59] it is not? [13:59] oh... [13:59] mhb: seems not [13:59] how come? Who decided it? [13:59] mhb: you'd need to ask the tech board [14:00] ouch... [14:00] :( [14:00] Jucato: some lines i saved to link in german channel http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/328562 [14:00] ah, so it's another move in "Pushing Kubuntu off the cliff" from the Canonical team. [14:00] I hope not [14:00] what else? [14:01] mhb: I have no comment, as I say ask the tech board [14:01] Riddell: where was this publically announced? [14:01] i didnt' see it in the tech board summaries? [14:01] oooh hi Hobbsee! :) [14:01] Hobbsee: it wasn't [14:01] heya Jucato! [14:01] Riddell: was it discussed in their meetings? [14:01] mhb: um... dunno... trying to have a positive outlook for once in my life [14:01] Hobbsee: not that I know of [14:02] well, in that case, presumably we can go for kde4 by deafult then [14:02] Riddell: they dropping it to univers etoo? [14:02] Hobbsee: no [14:02] mhb: I am not sure if it make sense to support kde3 for three years if upstream will mostly move on kde4 [14:02] mhb: but from positioning statement from canonical it is not good time [14:03] Lure: it is a wiser choice than supporting KDE4 at this time. [14:04] mhb: for sure, but is it smart to support kde3 now for three years if you can anticipate most of desktop users to switch in half that time? [14:05] mhb: when hardy 18 month support (regular) expires, kde 4.0 will be on the marked for 24 months already [14:05] mhb: I am sure at thet point in time, we would be able to persuade users to switch to shiny kde4 [14:05] the point of LTS is to provide a good distro for the cautious users. [14:05] mhb: or will they swith to ubuntu/gnome before ;-) [14:05] Riddell: what then happens for those who have done a lts kubuntu dapper? [14:06] do we then support dapper --> hardy+4, for kubuntu users? [14:06] you know, ordinary Ubuntu users usually also switch to newer GNOMEs and Ubuntu releases. [14:06] Hobbsee: dunno, "ask the tech board" [14:06] and I think KDE3 is pretty rock solid. [14:07] you could also try asking the desktop team who are meeting now [14:09] can we expect Kubuntu getting completely unsupported in the near future? [14:10] Riddell: right, they don't plan to at all [14:10] btw sorry I missed the last meeting and the tutorials day... real life infringes... [14:10] nice way to shoot kubuntu in the foot, commercially. [14:12] to me it kind of says "you are not going to get any more money. ever. And get ready for Ubuntu killing off the Kubuntu branch." [14:13] they affraid kde4 as a gnome killer :) [14:14] iRon: I doubt it. [14:14] iRon: they believe in GNOME the same way Microsoft believes about Windows. [14:15] the majority uses it - it is the best. [14:16] Jucato: by the way [14:16] Jucato: how did you find out about this? [14:16] mhb: [22:00] Jucato: some lines i saved to link in german channel http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/328562 [14:16] mhb: I walked into that conversation [14:16] (sorry if I opened a can of worms or something...) [14:17] Jucato: no can of worms should be left unopened. [14:17] mhb: apparently the logic is "focus on supporting upgrades, or on kde4, but not both" [14:19] actually the logic would be nice if we made the choice. [14:19] sorry to hear about the LTS stuff - hope you find a way around it all :( [14:20] and to get the mood up here a bit: [14:20] I always thought of Kubuntu as being self-sufficient, at least the TB should have warned us or something. [14:20] You Rock! and you know! [14:20] ;-) [14:20] yay for Nightrose! :D [14:22] Riddell: can we blog about this? [14:22] mhb: would seem politer just to ask for now [14:22] okay I will wait with this. [14:24] mhb: well the meeting is pretty much over if you're going to [14:24] I dunno. [14:25] I know how people that ask random questions during meetings are treated. [14:25] Riddell: who did make decision? TB, desktop-team, canonical? [14:25] Lure: dunno, you'd need to ask [14:26] * Lure will have to run now, bbl [14:29] tb, presumably [14:30] guess I asked too late. [14:31] mhb: you realise this means that we *could* have kde4 by default... [14:31] [20:01] Riddell: Aye. Does that also mean Kubuntu Hardy fill have KDE 4 as default desktop? [14:31] [20:01] sebas: nope [14:31] :D [14:31] * Hobbsee is told that the kubuntu council makes a judgement on this, as there's no commercial support LTS involved. [14:31] Jucato: not if the council overrules riddell [14:32] we can do that? O.o [14:32] * Jucato runs for cover [14:32] Jucato: apparently, yes we can. [14:33] actually... [14:33] that might give us a user boost. [14:34] mhb: if it's not a LTS, then i'm told that Riddell only counts as a community member, when it comes to decision making [14:34] mhb: the canonical powers that be decide what Riddell does, to a degree, and the rest of us are free to choose what kubuntu does [14:35] I do not like the idea of overthrowing Riddell at all. [14:35] now overthrowing a company position, that is something I have no problem with. [14:35] hehe :) [14:36] mhb: if he's just a member of the council, for the purposes of this discussion.... [14:36] then any other group of them could, and sometimes should, overthrow him [14:36] otherwise it's a dictatorship, isnt it? [14:36] yep [14:36] hmm, not sure. [14:36] he's our bdfl :) [14:36] actually it would be a meritocracy [14:37] anything below him is a meritocracy. but he's still the bdfl :) [14:37] if he is against something and he has a reason, I am convinced we should not overthrow him. [14:38] mhb: would you be happy to overthrow me, for the same thing? [14:38] being as a community member, but a rather respected one? [14:39] s/member/manager/ [14:40] Hobbsee: no. I like the idea of self-overthrowing - if the majority has a sane argument for it, then one should acknowledge it. [14:40] if you had a sane opinion, and I did have a radical one, I would not want to overthrow you. [14:42] shipping KDE4 as default would count as a radical opinion, so if Riddell did not want it ( and if he told us why), I guess I would reconsider. [14:42] well, one would be graciously doing that anyway, you'd hope [14:46] mmm, drama [14:49] seele: ping, I have got a KDE-related usability question you might help me with :o) [14:51] seele: if there is a KDE configuration tool and a GNOME configuration tool doing exactly the same thing (like managing users), does it make sense to have a different widget placement and workflow? [14:51] seele: should we focus on having a good usable way of managing users and make the UI the same or are there reasons for not doing that? [14:52] mhb: you mean having the interfaces match? [14:53] yes, as much as widgets allow. [14:53] yeah.. i dont see why not [14:53] if gnome spent a lot of time developing a good interface, why couldnt kde learn from it? or vice versa? [14:54] okay, thanks [14:54] * mhb was looking at users-admin and userconfig [14:56] Ðóññêèå åñòü? [14:58] ? [14:59] Ñäåñü êòî íèáóäü èç Ðîñèè åñòü [15:00] umm... I am so embarassed by asking, but where is the guidance SVN branch currently located? I am looking for the KDE4 initial ports. === apachelogger__ is now known as apachelogger === Scorcere1 is now known as Scorcerer [15:07] Lure: ah, you might know [15:07] Lure: do you know where the KDE4 ports of guidance are located? [15:07] on KDE SVN. [15:07] I am always lost there. [15:08] mhb: will try to find link for you... [15:08] mhb: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/utils/guidance/ [15:08] but the only thing that's ported is powermanager [15:08] and that's being dropped for a plasma thingy [15:08] funny, as it is being dropped. [15:08] Riddell: right, that is it [15:09] hmm, is there a good PyKDE4 package for Kubuntu? [15:09] mhb: this was done by new contributor and sebas just commited his work [15:10] mhb: python-kde4 is packaged [15:14] thanks [15:20] Heya [16:03] mhb, hobbsee: I think it would make a lot of sense to ship 4.0 by default [16:03] - 3.x has been rather limiting, the past Kubuntu releases were boring and there wasn't much new to add [16:03] - It's not an LTS [16:04] - Enterprisey customers can just use GNOME [16:04] - Lots of people will install 4.0 anyway, so if you ship 3.x, you need to support two desktops [16:04] sebas: +1 [16:04] sebas: I agree with you, as Kubuntu is no longer an LTS. [16:04] sebas: if it is not LTS, it makes sense to be kde4 [16:05] sebas: but we should know this at UDS time, so the focus of discussions could be different [16:05] indeed. [16:05] - If you ship 3.x, no new contributors will come to help Kubuntu, it's too boring and deprecated [16:05] Lure: That's Canonical's fault. They should've told "at UDS time" that Kubuntu Hardy won't be LTS [16:06] Or rather s/Canonical/Techboard [16:07] thank god for the 14 days meeting cycles. [16:08] wow, this saturday already? :o) [16:08] hm.. that can't be right? [16:09] the last one was on the 13th right? [16:09] or 12th? [16:09] sounds right. [16:09] we switch from Wednesdays to Saturdays. [16:09] so both the weekenders and the non-weekenders make it. [16:09] I guess. [16:10] It should maybe discussed on the mailinglist already? [16:10] i hope its thursday, cause i have to write a test in friday... [16:10] s/in/on [16:10] sebas: it should be, but there has been no official information from canonical yet, unfortunately. [16:11] The problem being? [16:11] nobody wants to announce it? [16:11] I guess. [16:11] I can blog it [16:12] right, I could do that too - but I hoped for a official source (meeting logs, TB member announcement) before writing facts that may not be confirmed. [16:12] I have a short e-mail announce in preparation [16:13] I don't care about this bureaucracy, quite frankly. [16:13] Have to run out now ... [16:13] see you later [16:13] sebas: see you later === uga is now known as tamonaube === tamonaube is now known as uga [16:28] so, who's a KDE4 lover around? [16:28] apachelogger: ping [16:30] mhb: he just went away [16:30] hmm [16:31] Nightrose: are you familiar with Amarok as well? [16:31] i am [16:31] hmm, never mind [16:31] <- community manager of amarok [16:32] Nightrose: when is the Amarok 2 due? [16:32] no due date yet [16:32]