[00:33] <nosrednaekim> whats this with flash being broken? what about it is broken?
[00:33] <ardchoille> md5sum problem is what people are telling me
[00:34] <nosrednaekim> hmm
[00:34] <nosrednaekim> so its up at the adobe end..
[00:34] <nosrednaekim> do alder versions work?
[00:34] <nosrednaekim> *older
[00:35] <ardchoille> I seem to remember seeing an LP bug saying the 9.0.48.0.2+really0ubuntu12 works but the newest one is broken
[00:36] <Riddell> apachelogger: build failure http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=libksquirrel
[00:51] <cheguevara_> hmm i woner why does wikipedia say konq passes the acid 2 test when it doesnt
[00:52] <nosrednaekim> cheguevara_: konqueror4
[00:52] <cheguevara_> ah lets try that
[00:53] <cheguevara_> no still don't render properly
[00:53] <nosrednaekim> hmm you sure? i'm pretty sure konqueror passes all tests.
[00:55] <cheguevara_> looking at it now]
[00:55] <cheguevara_> its got 2 scrollbaars
[00:55] <cheguevara_> ff 3 seems to fail as well
[00:55] <nosrednaekim> beta2?
[00:56] <cheguevara_> yeah
[00:56] <cheguevara_> well beta 2 rc i think
[00:57] <nosrednaekim> ok
[00:57] <nosrednaekim> ff3 should pass for certain
[01:00] <cheguevara_> nosrednaekim: http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot4eu3.png
[01:06] <Riddell> cheguevara_: kcolour got uploaded
[01:07] <cheguevara_> nice Riddell, thanks
[01:07] <cheguevara_> all kde4 revus gone then, great
[01:07] <cheguevara_> will resume packaging the rest tomorrow probably
[01:07] <cheguevara_> been busy at work
[01:15] <nosrednaekim> hey.... you think we sould add a java IRC applet to kubuntu.org?
[01:15] <nosrednaekim> *could
[01:18] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: no
[01:18] <Riddell> since there's no irc server on that machine
[01:18] <nosrednaekim> why not?
[01:18] <Riddell> nixternal: could you take a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=qdevelop and see if you can advocate it again
[01:19] <Riddell> should be ready for upload
[01:19] <Tm_T> Riddell: remember your "channel is not fully synced yet" error in irssi?
[01:19] <Riddell> Tm_T: yep
[01:19] <txwikinger> I think nixternal is in exams
[01:19] <Tm_T> Riddell: I have it now in #ubuntu
[01:20] <Riddell> Tm_T: nasty
[01:20] <Tm_T> aye
[01:20] <cheguevara_> you don't need for an irc server to be on the same machine as java applet
[01:20] <Riddell> Tm_T: I had to /disconnect and /connect
[01:20] <Tm_T> I refuse to do so
[01:21] <Riddell> cheguevara_: you'd need a server of some sort, and I'm pretty sure the sysadmins won't allow it
[01:21] <txwikinger> Riddell: Is there any common way to deal with missing icons in KDE menus for gnome apps, which have the icons in artwork packages?
[01:22] <cheguevara_> Riddell, you just make it connect to irc.freenode.org
[01:22] <Riddell> txwikinger: fix the gnome package
[01:22] <txwikinger> to depend on the artwork package?
[01:22] <Riddell> cheguevara_: the java applet?  fortunately java applets can't talk to random machines
[01:23] <Riddell> txwikinger: no, by putting the icon in the package where it belongs
[01:23] <cheguevara_> Riddell, i have one for my network
[01:23] <cheguevara_> on a completely different server
[01:23] <Riddell> txwikinger: why would a hicolour icon be in an artwork package anyway?
[01:24] <txwikinger> I don't know.. maybe in order to have different themes
[01:24] <Riddell> txwikinger: what's the package and the icon you're talking about?
[01:24] <Riddell> cheguevara_: I'm unconvinced
[01:24] <txwikinger> well there are several ones... serpentine is one of them
[01:24] <cheguevara_> Riddell, pjirc.com
[01:24] <Riddell> cheguevara_: further freenode won't want anonymous gateways
[01:25] <cheguevara_> that might be true
[01:25] <cheguevara_> http://java.freenode.net/
[01:25] <cheguevara_> they got their own anyway :P
[01:25] <cheguevara_> You can link to ours, and send users right to your channel. Use the link:
[01:25] <cheguevara_> http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=yourchannel
[01:25] <Riddell> voila
[01:26] <Riddell> I'll leave that to mhb and the new website
[01:26] <cheguevara_> :P
[01:26] <cheguevara_> oh we getting a new website
[01:26]  * nosrednaekim love giving mhb things to do..
[01:27] <Riddell> Icon=gnome-dev-cdrom-audio  oh crivvens
[01:27] <Riddell> cheguevara_: so where is that icon found?
[01:27] <Riddell> mm, no
[01:27] <Riddell> txwikinger: so where is that icon found?
[01:27] <cheguevara_> i was about to say :P
[01:27] <Riddell> I'm quite certain it won't be in hicolour
[01:28] <Riddell> /usr/share/icons/gnome/22x22/devices/gnome-dev-cdrom-audio.png
[01:29] <Riddell> txwikinger: that'll be a bug then.  unfortunately it's the sort that people often don't care about since it only shows up to users of the other desktop
[01:29] <txwikinger> Riddell: gnome-icon-theme-*
[01:29] <txwikinger> yes you got the right one
[01:30] <nosrednaekim> for instance... the compizconfig-control center has absolutely no icons at all.
[01:30] <Riddell> txwikinger: the way to fix it is by putting that icon into the serpentine package and installing to /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps/serpentine.png
[01:30] <txwikinger> ok.. thanks Riddell
[01:30] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: same issue I expect
[01:30] <txwikinger> I will do this and continue with all those other packages that I find like that
[01:30] <nosrednaekim> <_<
[01:30] <Riddell> diffs for icons are tricky too, you need to use diff -ua and uuencode it
[01:31] <Riddell> thanks txwikinger
[01:31] <txwikinger> as a patch in debian?
[01:31] <Riddell> txwikinger: yes
[01:31] <txwikinger> yes.. I thought so
[01:31] <blizzzek> gn8
[01:31] <Riddell> txwikinger: well the icon file can just be uuencoded
[01:32] <Riddell> txwikinger: you need to patch the .desktop file and add a rule to uudecode the icons and install them
[01:32] <txwikinger> right.. do you know an example package?
[01:33] <txwikinger> well.. I think it is simple enough, I can probably just do it myself
[01:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: amarok uploaded to hardy and gutsy-backports but the publisher is turned off for alpha 2 so it won't compile yet
[01:37] <Tm_T> Amarok2 ?
[01:38] <Riddell> Tm_T: 1.4.8
[01:38] <Tm_T> aa roger
[01:38] <Riddell> apachelogger: I've uploaded it to the kubuntu ppa too
[01:38]  * Riddell snoozes, at last
[01:38] <Tm_T> Riddell: sleep well :))
[01:39] <cheguevara_> good night Riddell
[02:13] <ardchoille> !away > gryc
[03:08] <jjesse> evening
[03:12] <Tm_T> morning
[03:15] <Tm_T> I wonder what's with Jucato...
[03:17] <Hobbsee> been eaten?
[03:17] <Tm_T> well haven't seen him
[03:17] <jjesse> i haven't seen him either, haven't been on much lately either
[03:17] <Tm_T> also he doesn't answer in Jabber either
[03:18]  * Tm_T is worried
[03:27] <nosrednaekim> yeah......
[05:29] <nixternal> bug #177036
[05:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177036 in kdebase "unable to mount hard disks which are not already mounted" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177036
[06:32] <nixternal> Riddell: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyHeron/Alpha2/Kubuntu
[06:32] <nixternal> when the Amarok news hits for 1.4.8, we need to toss some features in the release notes
[07:01] <ardchoille> Since I feel that irc is a bit impersonal for this.. where would I send an email if I wanted to thank the folks who do that packaging?
[07:03] <stdin> ardchoille: the kubuntu-devel mailinglist maybe
[07:03] <ardchoille> Sounds good
[07:04] <stdin> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
[07:05] <nixternal> ardchoille: since I do all of the work, you can just email me :p
[07:05] <ardchoille> hehe
[07:18] <nixternal> does Kubuntu default to using the system speaker and beeping? like in Konsole? I can't remember
[07:19] <stdin> I don't know, I would go and find out but LimCore annoys me :)
[07:21] <stdin> defaults to using system sounds on my laptop
[09:19] <_StefanS_> morning
[09:20] <_StefanS_> Riddell: did you get my patch for k3b?
[10:19] <Riddell> _StefanS_: yes thanks, but it should wait until alpha 2 is out
[10:19] <_StefanS_> Riddell: yep fair enough  :)
[10:24] <buz> is there any way to get the webkit konqui from the livecd on gutsy?
[10:35] <Riddell> buz: no, you'd need to compile it
[10:36] <buz> any reason why the cd doesnt boot in qemu, btw?
[10:36] <buz> i get bumped to busybox
[10:36] <Riddell> buz: the KDE 4 CD?
[10:44] <buz> yes kde4 rc2 kubuntu live cd
[10:44] <Riddell> buz: worked for me in virtualbox
[10:45] <Riddell> ** testers needed of amarok in  deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu {hardy,gutsy} main
[10:45] <buz> i get to see the startup screen, but when i hit enter i get some console ouput then busybox
[11:11] <Riddell> _StefanS_: doesn't look like alpha 2 is coming out imminently, I've uploaded your patch thanks
[11:22] <Riddell> nixternal: top work on that alpha 2 page.  I've added notes about hard disk mounting and webkit and removed references to LTS since that doesn't seem to apply to us
[11:24] <doc__> hi there
[11:24] <Riddell> hi doc__
[11:28] <sebas> Riddell: Does that mean the Kubuntu won't be supported for three years?
[11:36] <Riddell> sebas: mm
[11:43] <_StefanS_> Riddell: cool, thanks :)
[11:56] <stdin> Riddell: here's an early christmas present, a ton of debdiffs :) http://paste.stdin.me.uk/diffs/ these fix passing arguments to executables and add PATH to wrapper scripts (needed for things like kfmclient)
[11:56] <sebas> Riddell: What's "mm"? :)
[11:59] <Riddell> stdin: cool, thanks
[11:59] <Riddell> sebas: "yes, seems so"
[12:00] <sebas> Riddell: Ah, thanks
[12:00] <sebas> Do you know reasons for that?
[12:00] <Riddell> sebas: "to concentrate on kde 4"
[12:01] <sebas> Riddell: Aye. Does that also mean Kubuntu Hardy fill have KDE 4 as default desktop?
[12:01] <Riddell> sebas: nope
[12:01] <sebas> Ok, thanks for the info :)
[12:03] <Riddell> stdin: setting PATH there might stop kde 3 apps from running
[12:03] <stdin> Riddell: what kde 3 apps run from the kde4 wrapper scripts?
[12:04] <sebas> Riddell: Would releasing 3.5.9 have changed anything about that, do you think?
[12:04] <Riddell> sebas: dunno, you'd need to ask the tech board
[12:04] <sebas> I'll go hacking on KDE4 instead, I think ;-)
[12:05] <sebas> Sorry for you to hear that it's not supported as well as the GNOME desktop, btw.
[12:05] <Riddell> sebas: me too
[12:06] <sebas> OTOH, Qt3 is not supported by TT anymore as well, so that might also be an issue
[12:06] <stdin> Riddell: if you're running a kde4 app that opens another app then you'd expect it to open the kde4 version anyway, so I can't see how setting the PATH can harm anything there (unless you know something I don't)
[12:06] <Riddell> stdin: spose so
[12:11] <Riddell> stdin: you wouldn't happen to remember who tested kde 4 against libgif would you?
[12:11] <stdin> I think it was cheguevara
[12:12] <stdin> yep, it was
[12:13] <Riddell> would make sense to make that change at the same time
[12:13] <mhb> ryanakca: not here, I presume?
[12:14] <Riddell> ah, just the man
[12:15]  * cheguevara looks around
[12:15] <Riddell> cheguevara: did you have patches for the libungif -> libgif transition for kde 4?
[12:16] <cheguevara> yep
[12:16] <cheguevara> they are in a launchpad bug
[12:16] <cheguevara> sec let me get the number
[12:17] <cheguevara> bug 176836
[12:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176836 in kde4libs "Rebuild kde4libs against libgif instead of libungif" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176836
[12:18] <cheguevara> also note debian bug 401287
[12:18] <ubotu> Debian bug 401287 in libgif4 "libungif to libgif transition" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/401287
[12:19] <Riddell> cheguevara: this is the more general bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libungif4/+bug/174252
[12:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 174252 in libungif4 "transition to libgif" [Undecided,In progress]
[12:19] <Riddell> cheguevara: if you fancy taking that on that would be great :)
[12:20] <cheguevara> Riddell, yep count me in
[12:21] <cheguevara> am off to work for now though, cya
[12:23] <Riddell> win 13
[12:23] <Riddell> tsk
[13:02] <Lure> Riddell: should we add digikam 0.9.3 and new kipi-plugins to Alpha announcement?
[13:10] <Jucato> excuse me, kinda new around here. what's the kdebase-bin-kde3 package for? (tried to upgrade amarok using the ppa Riddell gave out)
[13:10] <Riddell> Lure: please do
[13:11] <Lure> Riddell: will try to find some links to add
[13:11] <Riddell> Jucato: makes kde 4 packages co-installable
[13:11] <Jucato> oh
[13:12] <mhb> ubuntu has some nice artwork concepts...
[13:12] <mhb> I really hope Kubuntu would look like that one day, too
[13:13] <Riddell> Jucato: did it work?
[13:13] <Jucato> just upgrading right now
[13:15] <mhb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals I like ... looks much more modern than Kubuntu now.
[13:15] <mhb> more modern than current GNOME theme, too.
[13:18] <blizzzek> i like the notification
[13:19] <Riddell> mhb: I don't think that has anything to do with what they'll actually use
[13:20] <Jucato> are Ubuntu's menus really rounded like that? O.o
[13:20] <mhb> Riddell: no, it is just community suggestions.
[13:23] <Jucato> they look nice though... :)
[13:23] <mhb> also mockups.
[13:34] <Lure> Riddell, nixternal: digikam added, you should fix my english though ;-) :  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha2/Kubuntu
[13:40] <mhb> Note to bloggers: experimental packages do not indicate taking a clear position.
[13:40] <mhb> what does that mean?
[13:40] <mhb> I am not getting the you-know-who context of the message.
[13:42] <mhb> also, the "Tasty menu" suggests that we are going to switch it for K Menu.
[13:42] <Riddell> mhb: http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2007/12/20/kubuntus-kde-4-livecd-comes-with-webkit-enabled-konqueror/
[13:46] <mhb> Riddell: thanks.
[13:56] <Riddell> Jucato: can you test amarok in gutsy-backports?
[13:56] <mhb> what is your opinion on Kubuntu vs. Ubuntus configuration tools?
[13:56] <mhb> I mean those that are not shared by both.
[13:57] <Jucato> Riddell: I just finished upgrading to the PPA's amarok (1.4.8?)
[13:57] <Riddell> Jucato: ok, does it work?
[13:57] <Riddell> mhb: I can't say I have one
[13:57] <stdin> works for me, listening now :)
[13:58] <Riddell> stdin: in gutsy PPA?
[13:58] <Jucato> worksforme2
[13:58] <Jucato> :D
[13:58] <Riddell> great
[13:58] <stdin> Riddell: PPA
[13:58] <blizzzek> amarok 1.4.8 is doing fine here as well, but i am listening only
[13:58] <stdin> I don't see it in -backpores yet anyway
[13:58] <stdin> *backports
[13:58] <Jucato> backpores.. lol :)
[13:58] <Jucato> where can I read about Kubuntu Hardy not being LTS anymore? (just got back)
[13:59] <Riddell> Jucato: it's not written anywhere
[13:59] <mhb> it is not?
[13:59] <Jucato> oh...
[13:59] <Riddell> mhb: seems not
[13:59] <mhb> how come? Who decided it?
[13:59] <Riddell> mhb: you'd need to ask the tech board
[14:00] <Jucato> ouch...
[14:00] <Jucato> :(
[14:00] <blizzzek> Jucato: some lines i saved to link in german channel http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/328562
[14:00] <mhb> ah, so it's another move in "Pushing Kubuntu off the cliff" from the Canonical team.
[14:00] <Jucato> I hope not
[14:00] <mhb> what else?
[14:01] <Riddell> mhb: I have no comment, as I say ask the tech board
[14:01] <Hobbsee> Riddell: where was this publically announced?
[14:01] <Hobbsee> i didnt' see it in the tech board summaries?
[14:01] <Jucato> oooh hi Hobbsee! :)
[14:01] <Riddell> Hobbsee: it wasn't
[14:01] <Hobbsee> heya Jucato!
[14:01] <Hobbsee> Riddell: was it discussed in their meetings?
[14:01] <Jucato> mhb: um... dunno... trying to have a positive outlook for once in my life
[14:01] <Riddell> Hobbsee: not that I know of
[14:02] <Hobbsee> well, in that case, presumably we can go for kde4 by deafult then
[14:02] <Hobbsee> Riddell: they dropping it to univers etoo?
[14:02] <Riddell> Hobbsee: no
[14:02] <Lure> mhb: I am not sure if it make sense to support kde3 for three years if upstream will mostly move on kde4
[14:02] <Lure> mhb: but from positioning statement from canonical it is not good time
[14:03] <mhb> Lure: it is a wiser choice than supporting KDE4 at this time.
[14:04] <Lure> mhb: for sure, but is it smart to support kde3 now for three years if you can anticipate most of desktop users to switch in half that time?
[14:05] <Lure> mhb: when hardy 18 month support (regular) expires, kde 4.0 will be on the marked for 24 months already
[14:05] <Lure> mhb: I am sure at thet point in time, we would be able to persuade users to switch to shiny kde4
[14:05] <mhb> the point of LTS is to provide a good distro for the cautious users.
[14:05] <Lure> mhb: or will they swith to ubuntu/gnome before </sarcastic> ;-)
[14:05] <Hobbsee> Riddell: what then happens for those who have done a lts kubuntu dapper?
[14:06] <Hobbsee> do we then support dapper --> hardy+4, for kubuntu users?
[14:06] <mhb> you know, ordinary Ubuntu users usually also switch to newer GNOMEs and Ubuntu releases.
[14:06] <Riddell> Hobbsee: dunno, "ask the tech board"
[14:06] <mhb> and I think KDE3 is pretty rock solid.
[14:07] <Riddell> you could also try asking the desktop team who are meeting now
[14:09] <mhb> can we expect Kubuntu getting completely unsupported in the near future?
[14:10] <Hobbsee> Riddell: right, they don't plan to at all
[14:10] <Jucato> btw sorry I missed the last meeting and the tutorials day... real life infringes...
[14:10] <Hobbsee> nice way to shoot kubuntu in the foot, commercially.
[14:12] <mhb> to me it kind of says "you are not going to get any more money. ever. And get ready for Ubuntu killing off the Kubuntu branch."
[14:13] <iRon> they affraid kde4 as a gnome killer :)
[14:14] <mhb> iRon: I doubt it.
[14:14] <mhb> iRon: they believe in GNOME the same way Microsoft believes about Windows.
[14:15] <mhb> the majority uses it - it is the best.
[14:16] <mhb> Jucato: by the way
[14:16] <mhb> Jucato: how did you find out about this?
[14:16] <Jucato> mhb: [22:00] <blizzzek> Jucato: some lines i saved to link in german channel http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/328562
[14:16] <Jucato> mhb: I walked into that conversation
[14:16] <Jucato> (sorry if I opened a can of worms or something...)
[14:17] <mhb> Jucato: no can of worms should be left unopened.
[14:17] <Hobbsee> mhb: apparently the logic is "focus on supporting upgrades, or on kde4, but not both"
[14:19] <mhb> actually the logic would be nice if we made the choice.
[14:19] <Nightrose> sorry to hear about the LTS stuff - hope you find a way around it all :(
[14:20] <Nightrose> and to get the mood up here a bit:
[14:20] <mhb> I always thought of Kubuntu as being self-sufficient, at least the TB should have warned us or something.
[14:20] <Nightrose> You Rock! and you know!
[14:20] <Nightrose> ;-)
[14:20] <Jucato> yay for Nightrose! :D
[14:22] <mhb> Riddell: can we blog about this?
[14:22] <Riddell> mhb: would seem politer just to ask for now
[14:22] <mhb> okay I will wait with this.
[14:24] <Riddell> mhb: well the meeting is pretty much over if you're going to
[14:24] <mhb> I dunno.
[14:25] <mhb> I know how people that ask random questions during meetings are treated.
[14:25] <Lure> Riddell: who did make decision? TB, desktop-team, canonical?
[14:25] <Riddell> Lure: dunno, you'd need to ask
[14:26]  * Lure will have to run now, bbl
[14:29] <Hobbsee> tb, presumably
[14:30] <mhb> guess I asked too late.
[14:31] <Hobbsee> mhb: you realise this means that we *could* have kde4 by default...
[14:31] <Jucato> [20:01] <sebas> Riddell: Aye. Does that also mean Kubuntu Hardy fill have KDE 4 as default desktop?
[14:31] <Jucato> [20:01] <Riddell> sebas: nope
[14:31] <Jucato> :D
[14:31]  * Hobbsee is told that the kubuntu council makes a judgement on this, as there's no commercial support LTS involved.
[14:31] <Hobbsee> Jucato: not if the council overrules riddell
[14:32] <Jucato> we can do that? O.o
[14:32]  * Jucato runs for cover
[14:32] <Hobbsee> Jucato: apparently, yes we can.
[14:33] <mhb> actually...
[14:33] <mhb> that might give us a user boost.
[14:34] <Hobbsee> mhb: if it's not a LTS, then i'm told that Riddell only counts as a community member, when it comes to decision making
[14:34] <Hobbsee> mhb: the canonical powers that be decide what Riddell does, to a degree, and the rest of us are free to choose what kubuntu does
[14:35] <mhb> I do not like the idea of overthrowing Riddell at all.
[14:35] <mhb> now overthrowing a company position, that is something I have no problem with.
[14:35] <Jucato> hehe :)
[14:36] <Hobbsee> mhb: if he's just a member of the council, for the purposes of this discussion....
[14:36] <Hobbsee> then any other group of them could, and sometimes should, overthrow him
[14:36] <Hobbsee> otherwise it's a dictatorship, isnt it?
[14:36] <Jucato> yep
[14:36] <mhb> hmm, not sure.
[14:36] <Jucato> he's our bdfl :)
[14:36] <mhb> actually it would be a meritocracy
[14:37] <Jucato> anything below him is a meritocracy. but he's still the bdfl :)
[14:37] <mhb> if he is against something and he has a reason, I am convinced we should not overthrow him.
[14:38] <Hobbsee> mhb: would you be happy to overthrow me, for the same thing?
[14:38] <Hobbsee> being as a community member, but a rather respected one?
[14:39] <Jucato> s/member/manager/
[14:40] <mhb> Hobbsee: no. I like the idea of self-overthrowing - if the majority has a sane argument for it, then one should acknowledge it.
[14:40] <mhb> if you had a sane opinion, and I did have a radical one, I would not want to overthrow you.
[14:42] <mhb> shipping KDE4 as default would count as a radical opinion, so if Riddell did not want it ( and if he told us why), I guess I would reconsider.
[14:42] <Hobbsee> well, one would be graciously doing that anyway, you'd hope
[14:46] <mhb> mmm, drama
[14:49] <mhb> seele: ping, I have got a KDE-related usability question you might help me with :o)
[14:51] <mhb> seele: if there is a KDE configuration tool and a GNOME configuration tool doing exactly the same thing (like managing users), does it make sense to have a different widget placement and workflow?
[14:51] <mhb> seele: should we focus on having a good usable way of managing users and make the UI the same or are there reasons for not doing that?
[14:52] <seele> mhb: you mean having the interfaces match?
[14:53] <mhb> yes, as much as widgets allow.
[14:53] <seele> yeah.. i dont see why not
[14:53] <seele> if gnome spent a lot of time developing a good interface, why couldnt kde learn from it?  or vice versa?
[14:54] <mhb> okay, thanks
[14:54]  * mhb was looking at users-admin and userconfig
[14:56] <sgm> Ðóññêèå åñòü?
[14:58] <Hobbsee> ?
[14:59] <sgm> Ñäåñü êòî íèáóäü èç Ðîñèè åñòü
[15:00] <mhb> umm... I am so embarassed by asking, but where is the guidance SVN branch currently located? I am looking for the KDE4 initial ports.
[15:07] <mhb> Lure: ah, you might know
[15:07] <mhb> Lure: do you know where the KDE4 ports of guidance are located?
[15:07] <mhb> on KDE SVN.
[15:07] <mhb> I am always lost there.
[15:08] <Lure> mhb: will try to find link for you...
[15:08] <Riddell> mhb: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/utils/guidance/
[15:08] <Riddell> but the only thing that's ported is powermanager
[15:08] <Riddell> and that's being dropped for a plasma thingy
[15:08] <mhb> funny, as it is being dropped.
[15:08] <Lure> Riddell: right, that is it
[15:09] <mhb> hmm, is there a good PyKDE4 package for Kubuntu?
[15:09] <Lure> mhb: this was done by new contributor and sebas just commited his work
[15:10] <Riddell> mhb: python-kde4 is packaged
[15:14] <mhb> thanks
[15:20] <bddebian> Heya
[16:03] <sebas> mhb, hobbsee: I think it would make a lot of sense to ship 4.0 by default
[16:03] <sebas> - 3.x has been rather limiting, the past Kubuntu releases were boring and there wasn't much new to add
[16:03] <sebas> - It's not an LTS
[16:04] <sebas> - Enterprisey customers can just use GNOME
[16:04] <sebas> - Lots of people will install 4.0 anyway, so if you ship 3.x, you need to support two desktops
[16:04] <Lure> sebas: +1
[16:04] <mhb> sebas: I agree with you, as Kubuntu is no longer an LTS.
[16:04] <Lure> sebas: if it is not LTS, it makes sense to be kde4
[16:05] <Lure> sebas: but we should know this at UDS time, so the focus of discussions could be different
[16:05] <mhb> indeed.
[16:05] <sebas> - If you ship 3.x, no new contributors will come to help Kubuntu, it's too boring and deprecated
[16:05] <sebas> Lure: That's Canonical's fault. They should've told "at UDS time" that Kubuntu Hardy won't be LTS
[16:06] <sebas> Or rather s/Canonical/Techboard
[16:07] <mhb> thank god for the 14 days meeting cycles.
[16:08] <mhb> wow, this saturday already? :o)
[16:08] <Jucato> hm.. that can't be right?
[16:09] <Jucato> the last one was on the 13th right?
[16:09] <Jucato> or 12th?
[16:09] <mhb> sounds right.
[16:09] <mhb> we switch from Wednesdays to Saturdays.
[16:09] <mhb> so both the weekenders and the non-weekenders make it.
[16:09] <mhb> I guess.
[16:10] <sebas> It should maybe discussed on the mailinglist already?
[16:10] <blizzzek> i hope its thursday, cause i have to write a test in friday...
[16:10] <blizzzek> s/in/on
[16:10] <mhb> sebas: it should be, but there has been no official information from canonical yet, unfortunately.
[16:11] <sebas> The problem being?
[16:11] <mhb> nobody wants to announce it?
[16:11] <mhb> I guess.
[16:11] <sebas> I can blog it
[16:12] <mhb> right, I could do that too - but I hoped for a official source (meeting logs, TB member announcement) before writing facts that may not be confirmed.
[16:12] <Riddell> I have a short e-mail announce in preparation
[16:13] <sebas> I don't care about this bureaucracy, quite frankly.
[16:13] <sebas> Have to run out now ...
[16:13] <sebas> see you later
[16:13] <mhb> sebas: see you later
[16:28] <mhb> so, who's a KDE4 lover around?
[16:28] <mhb> apachelogger: ping
[16:30] <Nightrose> mhb: he just went away
[16:30] <mhb> hmm
[16:31] <mhb> Nightrose: are you familiar with Amarok as well?
[16:31] <Nightrose> i am
[16:31] <mhb> hmm, never mind
[16:31] <Nightrose> <- community manager of amarok
[16:32] <mhb> Nightrose: when is the Amarok 2 due?
[16:32] <Nightrose> no due date yet
[16:32] <Nightrose> "when it´s done" ;-)
[16:32] <mhb> ah.
[16:32] <Nightrose> expect a release in 1 quater of 08 though i think
[16:32] <mhb> okay.
[16:32] <Nightrose> alpha maybe
[16:32] <Nightrose> or beta
[16:33] <Lure> mhb: digikam for kde4 release plan: http://www.digikam.org/?q=about/releaseplan
[16:34] <mhb> so, which apps will be good enough for KDE 4.0 release? I guess Konqueror, Dolphin, Konsole, Kopete hopefully.
[16:34] <Lure> mhb: and it is conservative as gilles thinks kde4.0 will be late
[16:34] <Lure> mhb: would be good to know about koffice
[16:35] <blizzzek> mhb: what about okular?
[16:35] <mhb> blizzzek: I dunno, I haven't concentrated much on KDE4 now, just used in once in a while.
[16:35] <mhb> blizzzek: okular as well, if you say so
[16:37] <blizzzek> mhb: its fantastic in my opinion, for making notes in pdf documents
[16:38] <mhb> ah, should try that soon.
[16:39] <mhb> we'll have to provide some KDE3 apps along with the KDE4. Would the libs fit on the CD?
[16:39] <mhb> both the KDE3 and the KDE4.
[16:41] <mhb> so amarok, digikam, kaffeine, k3b are the ones that would have to be provided... do you know of more?
[16:42] <Riddell> adept
[16:42] <blizzzek> konversation
[16:42] <mhb> there's no kde4 port for it? aww.
[16:42] <Riddell> oh and kdepim
[16:42] <mhb> yes, naturally.
[16:46] <mhb> Riddell: how is the KDE4 cd build governed?
[16:46] <Riddell> mhb: what kde 4 cd?  how do you mean governed?
[16:47] <mhb> Riddell: could a mere mortal see how much libraries take up, how much will this app and that app affect the CD size?
[16:47] <mhb> yes, KDE4 CD
[16:47] <Riddell> mhb: since there's no hardy KDE 4 CD yet there's nothing to see.  it's blocking on the seeds being remade in a new format
[16:48] <Riddell> of course you could make a chroot and add the package then run squashfs on it as a rough guess
[16:51] <mhb> Riddell: is the announcement going public soon?
[16:51]  * mhb would like to start the ML discussions already :o)
[16:52] <Riddell> mhb: yeah, e-mail going out in a few minutes
[16:52] <iRon> Riddell: so, what about bullet-proof-x on which i'm working now? i need to do it for kde4?
[16:53] <mhb> iRon: nothing is final yet
[16:53] <Riddell> iRon: that's an interesting question
[16:53] <Riddell> iRon: there is pretty certain to be both kde 3 and kde 4 CDs whatever happens
[16:55] <mhb> iRon: I hope to make the decision quick and painless, hopefully we can agree on something on Saturday.
[16:55] <mhb> but don't worry, your work will not be in vain.
[16:55] <iRon> i have kde4 compiled from svn, so i could do it for both kde3 and kde4..
[16:55] <iRon> :)
[16:55] <Riddell> iRon: that would keep everyone happy
[16:56] <Riddell> iRon: in general development should be done for kde 4 these days as the priority
[16:56] <Riddell> of course there's no displayconfig for kde 4 yet
[16:56] <iRon> i see..
[16:57] <Riddell> but the kde 3 one ought to run
[16:58] <apache|mobile> mhb: pong
[16:58] <mhb> apache|mobile: it is okay, keep mobiling
[16:58] <apache|mobile> okay
[16:59] <seele> haha, awesome
[16:59] <seele> some guy with an OLPC came and sat next to me in the cafe I'm at
[17:00] <Riddell> seele: did he steal it from a child in an improvirished country?
[17:00] <seele> Riddell: lol, i hope not
[17:01] <seele> he might have bought one and donated one.. there was a donation campaign last month during thanksgiving holiday
[17:01] <seele> i'll ask him when he gets back
[17:01] <seele> (he's picking up his order)
[17:02] <Riddell> people: my internet has died, if someone wants to branch the website and add the amarok announcement I can merge it in
[17:06] <Riddell> mhb: there you go
[17:08] <seele> got it during the donation campaign
[17:08] <seele> although he just sold two rich old ladies on doing their own donations
[17:11] <Riddell> I do believe my internet may have fixed itself
[17:12] <nosrednaekim> shees, talk about "flame against kubuntu" on liquidat's blog.
[17:15] <seele> nosrednaekim: am i missing something?  i don't see anything about kubuntu in his latest entry
[17:16] <nosrednaekim> kubuntu kde4 test cd with webkit..
[17:16] <seele> oh, yesterday's post
[17:16] <seele> he just posted about flash.. so i thought it was the timing ;)
[17:17] <nosrednaekim> haveta go take my driving test, BBL
[17:18] <seele> good luck
[17:19] <Riddell> apache|mobile: http://kubuntu.org/announcements/amarok-1.4.8.php
[17:22] <apache|mobile> Riddell: thank you
[17:23] <mhb> Riddell: thanks.
[17:23] <mhb> Riddell: "development
[17:23] <mhb> efforts will be directed towards KDE 4 and releasing Kubuntu 8.04 with
[17:23] <mhb> the option of using either KDE 3.5 or KDE 4."
[17:23] <mhb> how can we achieve that?
[17:23] <mhb> surely it won't fit on a single CD.
[17:24] <Riddell> we'd need to have 2 CDs
[17:24] <Riddell> that's always been the plan
[17:25] <mhb> hmm, okay.
[17:25] <mhb> can we decide which one will get shipped to users?
[17:25] <Riddell> dunno
[17:25] <mhb> i.e. can we decide on making the KDE4 the default one.
[17:25] <Riddell> dunno
[17:26] <mhb> if you don't, then who does?
[17:27] <apache|mobile> a buddha might
[17:27] <Riddell> keybuk says he's happy to take questions (although he might be away just now)
[17:27] <mhb> hmm, okay
[17:27] <Riddell> putting KDE 4 in main would be tricky
[17:28] <jpatrick> can't cd building take packages from universe?
[17:29] <nixternal> mhb: those Artwork ideas for Ubuntu look super hot!
[17:29] <Riddell> it could yes
[17:29] <nixternal> Jucato: welcome back!
[17:29] <jpatrick> isn't that why xubuntu packages got demoted?
[17:31] <mhb> hey nixternal
[17:31] <mhb> nixternal: up to date with the news?
[17:31] <nixternal> nope
[17:34] <yuriy> Jucato's back?
[17:35] <mhb> nixternal: Kubuntu Hardy will not be an LTS, many suggest having KDE4 as default then...
[17:35] <yuriy> I'm confused by Riddell's e-mail.  Kubuntu Hardy won't be LTS?
[17:35] <mhb> yuriy: yes.
[17:36] <mhb> yuriy: it will not
[17:36] <mhb> yuriy: however, that may be a good thing if you're a KDE4 fan.
[17:37] <nixternal> ya, I knew Kubuntu Hardy wasn't LTS and that is why I really wanted to work on the KDE 4 stuff
[17:37] <nixternal> I forgot to remove that from the Template I made for the wiki
[17:37] <yuriy> well doesn't matter to me much, not like i'm purchasing support, but isn't this canonical's decision? don't they have to support all packages in main, including KDE, for 36 months for an LTS?
[17:37] <nixternal> there is no doubt we should have KDE 4 by default
[17:38] <nixternal> that will help katapult (heh, like that?) us big time and gain us some devs hopefully
[17:38] <nixternal> +100 million dollars
[17:38] <mhb> right
[17:38] <nixternal> </dr. evil voice>
[17:38] <Nightrose> +1 nixternal
[17:38] <mhb> let's hope the powers above us will allow us to do that.
[17:38] <nixternal> who are the powers above us?
[17:39] <jpatrick> TechBoard?
[17:39] <nixternal> wouldn't that be a Kubuntu CC thing?
[17:39] <nixternal> if they CC votes yes and we pressure the tech board, it shouldn't be difficult at all
[17:40] <nixternal> plus, I can blog about it to make some noise and get support from the community to help us push for it if need be, as well as everyone else in here can blog about it (ie. Riddell and the other folks on Planet KDE)
[17:40] <Nightrose> cunt me in if needed ;-)
[17:41] <jpatrick> count*
[17:41] <nixternal> haha, ya, if my mom seen that, she would have just died
[17:41] <mhb> nixternal: it would be , however, we have not decided the LTS-ness either.
[17:41] <Nightrose> jpatrick: :) sorry yea
[17:41] <jpatrick> Nightrose: machs nichts
[17:41] <Nightrose> ;-)
[17:42]  * Nightrose should not type faster than she can think
[17:42] <yuriy> wouldn't kde4 by default require either ports of all utilities such as knetworkmanager or more space on the CD for kde3libs
[17:43] <nixternal> we still have Dapper which isn't even 2 years old yet, waiting another 2 years for an LTS release still puts us within the 5 year time-frame
[17:43] <Jucato> yuriy: I *think* I'm back...
[17:44] <Jucato> thanks nixternal :)
[17:44] <jpatrick> yo Jucato!
[17:44] <Jucato> although *back* doesn't mean much to me right now :P
[17:44] <yuriy> Jucato: well welcome back anyways :)
[17:44] <mhb> nixternal: go blog about it
[17:44] <Jucato> (almost as much as front, side, top or bottom :P)
[17:44] <Jucato> hi jpatrick
[17:47] <nixternal> ooh
[17:47]  * nixternal hits the blog
[17:47] <Jucato> pre-New Year's resolution... cut down on the blonts :)
[17:48] <yuriy> Jucato: i think nixternal is looking for some blonts ^
[17:48] <Jucato> heh yeah. that was directed at him :P
[17:49] <Jucato> 2nd thing I did after coming back was open a can of worms... I seem to have a talent for doing that :P
[17:53] <nixternal> Jucato: I don't blont :)
[17:58] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/kde4.txt  <-- Riddell does that sound about right? not misrepresenting I hope
[17:59]  * Jucato cries fowl
[17:59] <nixternal> why are you crying a duck?
[17:59] <Jucato> hm... I was thinking more of a chicken...
[17:59] <Jucato> coz I'm hungry :P
[17:59] <ardchoille> hi Jucato
[17:59] <Jucato> hi ardchoille
[17:59] <Jucato> oh right congrats :)
[18:00] <ardchoille> Thanks :)
[18:00] <jpatrick> nixternal: add a link to the tutorials maybe?
[18:00] <Jucato> ok now that was stupid of me lol!
[18:00] <Jucato> ctrl+w on the wrong window/tab
[18:01] <Riddell> nixternal: now there's putting a positive spin on things
[18:01] <nixternal> you like?
[18:01] <Riddell> nixternal: I'd leave you "by default" since that could mean various things
[18:01] <nixternal> dude, I am happier than a homeless person winning the lotto right about now :)
[18:01] <gribelu> does anyone else have ugly looking gtk apps on kde3 on hardy?
[18:02] <gribelu> new profile didn't help.. or reinstalling gtk-qt-engine
[18:02] <nixternal> my apps look fine, but I am using that gtk-qt-engine
[18:03] <nixternal> then again, I haven't upgraded in a couple of weeks now because there are still some apps that want to "remove" themselves
[18:08] <gribelu> i have all the recent updates but i've been having this problem for about a week. I kept hoping that i wasn't the only one :)
[18:08] <nixternal> so this will obviously be a 2 CD thing as well as a single DVD correct Riddell?
[18:09] <Riddell> nixternal: nothing is very obvious right now
[18:09] <nixternal> OK
[18:09] <Riddell> nixternal: but yes, I'm pretty sure there will be kde 3 and kde 4 CDs
[18:09] <Jucato> yuriy: regarding Canonical's support for everything in main, I think that misconception was somewhat discussed in the ubuntu-devel-discuss list (regarding Xubuntu and some proposal to merge sections)
[18:10] <nixternal> alrighty, I am ready to hack on some KDE 4 lovin'! what needs to be done?
[18:10] <Jucato> nixternal: everything? :)
[18:11] <Riddell> nixternal: you could upload stdin's patches
[18:11] <nixternal> link?
[18:11] <Riddell> along with cheguevara's one for libgif
[18:11] <nixternal> links? :)
[18:11] <Riddell> http://paste.stdin.me.uk/diffs/
[18:12] <Riddell> https://launchpad.net/bugs/176836
[18:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176836 in kde4libs "Rebuild kde4libs against libgif instead of libungif" [Undecided,New]
[18:13] <Riddell> nixternal: for the libgif one, you then need to change the build-dep of the others to that version of kdelibs
[18:15] <mhb> nixternal: also, making the critical KDE3 apps work with KDE4 would rock.
[18:17] <nixternal> Recent flash plugins didn’t work with newer Konqueror versions. But now the Fedora-KDE team released new KDE packages with support for the newest flash in Konqueror
[18:17] <nixternal> I am taking it we are also going to roll out something or something is currently in the works for this?
[18:18] <yuriy> I get "subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1" on kdm when trying to install kde4rc2 from PPA
[18:18] <nixternal> Riddell: so all KDE 4 packages need a rebuild against the new kdelibs I am about to rebuild?
[18:19] <Riddell> nixternal: actually if you're doing that, you may as well merge with debian and get their new linker flag
[18:19] <nixternal> k
[18:19] <Riddell> nixternal: flash, the patches have known problems, I can put them in hardy but not yet go for SRU
[18:19] <nixternal> gotcha
[19:41] <fdoving> Riddell: did you see pittis comment on 162233? - will you also upload to hardy if neccesary? the fix is commited to KDE svn, i'm not sure about the age of the sources in hardy, if the kde commit is included or not, as i don't have hardy anywhere.
[19:46] <Lure> bug 162233
[19:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 162233 in kdelibs "KIO FTP is shortening the URL" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162233
[19:51] <Lure> nixternal: reading comment on your blog: LTS provides only 3 years support on desktop (and 5 years on server)
[19:51] <nixternal> err, I caught that too and was in the process of editing the comment
[19:56] <nixternal> fixed
[19:56] <nixternal> I was going through editing the last one and decided to just create a new comment
[19:56] <nixternal> are there any statistics that show how many people are still using Kubuntu 6.06?
[19:57] <nixternal> I spoke to one of the Canonical Support people not to long ago and they said they were unaware of any Kubuntu 6.06 support contracts
[19:58] <nixternal> then again, the guy I talked to, said the guy whose laptop we were fixing, was the only Kubuntu contract he knew of off the top of his head :)
[20:03] <yuriy> hmm i don't have any options for a KDE4/cmake project in kdevelop
[20:06] <nixternal> I should not have blogged, my site has been killed :(
[20:07] <Nightrose> hehe nixternal - didn´t you expect that to happen?
[20:07] <nixternal> no, but I can guarantee the nasty letter from Dreamhost on this one
[20:25] <nixternal> well, I can SSH into my webserver, that's about it
[20:25] <nixternal> haha
[20:26] <fdoving> you need a mirror :)
[20:45] <nixternal> We pushed out a bit of code and it’s having an adverse effect on almost all of our servers. If your site is down now, we’re aware of the issue and are working hard to get everything back up ASAP. Please keep an eye on this status post, as we’ll update it as soon as we have any further information. We’re sorry for the inconvenience this causes you.
[20:45] <nixternal> whew, it wasn't me :)
[20:53] <nosrednaekim> hee
[20:53] <nosrednaekim> is this true? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2007-December/002066.html
[20:54] <jpatrick> nosrednaekim: yes
[20:55] <nosrednaekim> I guess thats good
[20:55] <jpatrick> it rocKs
[20:55] <nosrednaekim> we can concentrate on kde4
[20:57] <ardchoille> If I find a bug in LP and I can easily duplicate it, may I mark it as confirmed?
[20:58] <ardchoille> Oh, it's already confirmed. But is there anything else I can do to help triage this bug?
[20:58] <jpatrick> say it affects you as well?
[20:58] <ardchoille> Will do
[21:04] <steveire> Will soprano v1.99 be in gutsy any time soon or where can I get a trustworthy package?
[21:06] <ardchoille> How do I change "Status" and "Importance" for LP bugs?
[21:07] <jpatrick> ardchoille: hit the yellow part under the title
[21:07] <ardchoille> aha
[21:08] <ardchoille> I don't seem to have access to change importance, but that's ok.
[21:09] <nixternal> merges.ubuntu.com only does merges between hardy and unstable right? it doesn't pull down mergest from experimental?
[21:09] <jpatrick> nixternal: use dad, it's better
[21:10] <nixternal> well, I was looking for an easy way out in doing debian kde4 merge with ubuntu kde4 ;)
[21:10] <jpatrick> and more up to date sometimes
[21:16] <steveire> Anyone?
[21:18] <steveire> I'd prefer not to have to compile kdesupport...
[21:22] <steveire> Well, that's what I'm doing now :(
[21:36] <jpatrick> steveire: is it not in the kubuntu-members-kde4 repo?
[21:36] <jpatrick> jour Tonio_
[21:36] <ardchoille> triaging bugs is kinda fun :)
[21:36] <steveire> jpatrick: I'm not aware of that.
[21:37] <Jucato> ardchoille: going crazy is always fun :)
[21:37] <ardchoille> omg, did I just label myself as a geek?
[21:37] <Jucato> you can try to do something I said I'd do but never got around to doing...
[21:37] <Jucato> (triage adept bugs...)
[21:37] <ardchoille> What's that?
[21:37] <nosrednaekim> ardchoille: we already knew what.
[21:37] <ardchoille> oh
[21:37] <ardchoille> hahaha
[21:37] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: heya... we were getting worried about you :D
[21:38] <Jucato> orly? :)
[21:38] <nosrednaekim> yeah
[21:38] <Jucato> just had some down time due to real life... and  I feel another down time coming up :)
[21:38]  * Jucato needs to go to bed after taking asthma meds...
[21:38] <nosrednaekim> ah
[21:38] <jpatrick> steveire: ah, that repo has  1.98.0~rc
[21:39] <steveire> jpatrick: I've got it from svn anyway. Means I have to keep it up to date myself. The things I have to do...... :)
[21:39] <Jucato> !info libsoprano4 hardy
[21:39] <ubotu> libsoprano4: Qt4 interface to RDF storage. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.99~rc2-0ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 554 kB, installed size 1788 kB
[21:40] <Jucato> or switch to hardy? :)
[21:40] <nixternal> I am going to merge in a update soprano package in a bit, unless someone wants to hop on it, it is listed in MoM
[21:40]  * Jucato wonders when there will be a SiS and a BrO...
[21:40] <nixternal> I am getting killed with LTS/KDE4 comments, questions, and then some right now
[21:40] <nixternal> I knew I should have taken a chill pill
[21:41] <nixternal> but damnit, I was excited! :)
[21:41] <Jucato> good for you :)
[21:41] <fdoving> kde4 visual effects are cool. not unstable either. :)
[21:41] <nixternal> just think about it for a second, it would be impossible for the current amount of volunteers we have to maintain both 3.5 and 4 to the point where we could do LTS as well
[21:42] <nixternal> we could go the LTS route, neglect creating a kick ass KDE 4 distro, and then come this time next year, we have to play catchup, not with Ubuntu, but with dozens of other KDE 4 distros
[21:42] <jpatrick> nixternal: you have +1000 from me for KDE4
[21:42] <nixternal> we don't have the manpower and our bdfl is stretched thin as it is
[21:43] <fdoving> maintaining kde4 in it's .0 or pre .0 state for 3 years would be a nice job. backporting all fixes, etc. :)
[21:43] <nixternal> I am sure that if this was Canonical's decision, they did their homework
[21:43] <Yorokobi> nixternal, fwiw, your response to the -devel mailing list convinced me :)
[21:43] <nixternal> unless of course this is a plan of theirs to make us fail :p
[21:43] <nixternal> Yorokobi: woohoo! :)
[21:43] <nixternal> that would suck
[21:43] <txwikinger> hi nixternal, how was your exam?
[21:44]  * Jucato tries not to think at all :)
[21:44] <nixternal> txwikinger: put this way, I HATE BROWSERS!
[21:44]  * Jucato beds
[21:44] <nixternal> and a lack of standards
[21:44] <nixternal> I wrote all of my code in standard, tested it with jslint, it was perfect
[21:44] <txwikinger> nixternal: I gathered so far...
[21:44] <nixternal> but...IE 6, IE 7, and Firefox on Windows had issues
[21:44] <nixternal> but it worked great in Konqi, Opera, Safari, and FF on Linux
[21:45] <txwikinger> cool
[21:45] <nixternal> the FF thing struck me as odd, but I wouldn't put blame on FF, but the stupid Windows boxes the professors use
[21:45] <txwikinger> and if anybody complains... they are all free :)
[21:45] <nixternal> hehe
[21:45] <nixternal> I told my professor to get with it and use real stuff
[21:45] <nixternal> err, free stuff
[21:46] <nixternal> if we had at least 25 more active devs, then we could do both at the same time :)
[21:47]  * txwikinger voluteers as one of the 25 :D
[21:47] <Tonio__> hi
[21:47] <Tonio__> Riddell: publishing kdesudo right now....
[21:47] <Tonio__> Riddell: sory for the long delay but I had a really hard week
[21:47] <nixternal> hiya Tonio_!
[21:47]  * nosrednaekim volunteers too, but is currently making a compiz app which don't do much good ;)
[21:48] <Tonio_> Riddell: 2 weeks in vacations tomorrow !, I'll be back in the effort for contrubution
[21:48] <Tonio_> hey nixternal :)
[21:48] <nixternal> Tonio_: if it is for Hardy, no worries, we still have 4 months :)
[21:48] <txwikinger> hi Tonio_
[21:48] <nixternal> stdin: you around homeskillet?
[21:48] <stdin> sure homefry
[21:49] <Tonio_> nixternal: yeah, but there was a bug reported to canonical so I was engaged to publish somehow :)
[21:49] <Tonio_> hey txwikinger
[21:49] <nixternal> hehe
[21:52]  * imbrandon yawns
[21:52] <imbrandon> moins Tonio_ nixternal
[21:52] <Tonio_> hey imbrandon
[21:52] <Tonio_> now I have to write about 50 documentation  pages for my tomorrow OCS inventory class lesson and I'm don with all of them
[21:53] <Tonio_> giving class lessons is interesting but from time to time, not every day for 2 weeks I must say :/
[21:53] <nixternal> moins? are you high? you live a timezone west of me, it is going on 3 there :p
[21:54] <nixternal> I am finally done with this semester, thank God...it worked me big time
[21:54] <blizzzek> here it is almost 11pm
[21:54] <imbrandon> nixternal: heh 4pm
[21:55] <nixternal> oh, you are in the same timezone as me
[21:55] <nixternal> thought you were an hour behind for some reason
[21:55] <imbrandon> nixternal: but yesterday was my bday and i had quite a bit of alchy soo today is a late start
[21:55] <nixternal> makes since, since you aren't in the mountains I guess
[21:55] <nixternal> happy belated birthday
[21:55] <imbrandon> thanks
[21:56] <nixternal> right now, I am starting to think I created a poop storm with the Kubuntu 8.04 non-LTS KDE 4 release
[21:56] <imbrandon> nah, i think its a great idea
[21:56] <nosrednaekim> I think its an awesome idea
[21:56] <nosrednaekim> I mean, who wants to support kde3 for 3 years?
[21:56] <nixternal> I do to, but for some reason, the nay-sayers are running like gangsters right now
[21:57] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: don't worry about them, they probably aren't even Kubuntu users anyway
[21:57] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: so true, and lets not forget all of the KDE applications out there where the developers are now doing KDE 4 port and have stopped updating their KDE 3 apps
[21:57] <stdin> nixternal: you didn't know you were going to get storm'o'poo when posting it? ;)
[21:57] <nixternal> not that bad, I figured I would ahve gotten the "OH HELL YA!" posts
[21:58] <nixternal> right now, my buddy is the only one with an "OH HELL YA" post, and that is only because if he didn't, I would beat him up tomorrow when we go to lunch :)
[21:58] <Nightrose> hehe want some more HELL YEA posts? ;-)
[21:58] <nixternal> truthfully, no matter the direction that was chosen, people were bound to be upset with something
[21:58] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: where is your blog, I 'll make one without the explitive ;)
[21:58] <nixternal> http://blog.nixternal.com
[21:58] <nixternal> it is back up now so all is well :)
[21:58] <nosrednaekim> ok
[21:59] <nixternal> and then I ruined a perfectly good post by forgetting that the desktop releases have 3 years of support :)
[21:59] <nixternal> s/post/comment
[21:59] <nosrednaekim> haha
[22:00] <nixternal> then again, I like the poop storm bein created, it helps me learn the art of putting out fires at the same time
[22:00] <nixternal> something my business degree didn't teach me :)
[22:00] <ardchoille> So Hardy will not be LTS?
[22:00] <nixternal> according to the -devel email, nope
[22:00] <imbrandon> not for kubuntu
[22:00] <nixternal> only for Kubuntu
[22:01] <ardchoille> ok
[22:01] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: lol, the guy making the most favorable post is running epiphany...lol
[22:01] <nixternal> everything else will be good to go
[22:01] <Riddell> bonsoir
[22:01] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: and he is running Epiphany on Kubuntu
[22:01] <imbrandon> heya Riddell
[22:01] <jpatrick> buenas noches Riddell
[22:01] <imbrandon> nixternal: epiphany+webkit == love
[22:02] <nixternal> imbrandon: +104830843038 on that
[22:02] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: ah.
[22:02] <nixternal> epiphany + konqi == super duper love
[22:02] <nixternal> err
[22:02] <nixternal> webkit + konqi :p
[22:02] <imbrandon> heh
[22:02] <Riddell> Mez: yes, it's the right one
[22:03] <nixternal> Riddell: just so I have this right, the whole LTS decision was Canonical's?
[22:03] <nixternal> non-LTS decision that is
[22:03] <nosrednaekim> hmph... says i'm on ubuntu linux probably because I use firefox..
[22:03] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: are you using Hardy?
[22:03] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: nope
[22:04] <nosrednaekim> but I am running KDE4
[22:04] <nixternal> in Gutsy for Kubuntu it said Gnu/Linux
[22:04] <imbrandon> ok so do we have a running TODO ? in my hungover from yesterdays bday festivities and .... ready to do some $work
[22:04] <imbrandon> :)
[22:04] <nosrednaekim> yeah, what needs to be done? which apps need to be ported?
[22:04] <nixternal> heh, Riddell gave me one hell of a todo list
[22:05] <Tonio_> bonsoir Riddell !
[22:05] <nixternal> I am trying to decipher it right now, but everyone keeps messaging me about how stupid we are for non-LTS and how wonderful we are for doing KDE 4
[22:05] <imbrandon> Riddell: slap me with a TODO
[22:05] <imbrandon> :)
[22:05] <nosrednaekim> me too
[22:06] <ryanakca> mhb: am now...
[22:06] <mhb> groovy.
[22:07] <mhb> ryanakca: remember the website?
[22:07] <mhb> ryanakca: well the things got in motion
[22:08] <steveire> imbrandon: You work on amarok right?
[22:08] <steveire> will amarok use nepomuk for its tags?
[22:08] <imbrandon> steveire: yup
[22:08] <imbrandon> i work on it
[22:08] <imbrandon> steveire: amarok2 or amarok ?
[22:08] <nixternal> amarok2 obviously :)
[22:08] <steveire> 2 yes
[22:08] <nixternal> unless you backport nepomuk-kde into kde3
[22:08] <imbrandon> not sure, i know 1.x wont
[22:09] <nixternal> I think it will eventually
[22:09] <imbrandon> right
[22:09] <nixternal> it would only make sense
[22:09] <imbrandon> eventualy
[22:09] <steveire> but defo not 2.0
[22:09] <steveire> ?
[22:09] <nixternal> 4.1 probably
[22:09] <imbrandon> steveire: apachelogger__ would be better to ask , he is upstream amarok too
[22:09] <nixternal> so is Nightrose
[22:09] <Nightrose> ;-) yea
[22:09] <nixternal> look at us name dropping :)
[22:10] <imbrandon> i just package it and poke bugs now and then
[22:10] <imbrandon> :)
[22:10] <nixternal> I just use and abuse it
[22:10] <Nightrose> well so far nothing
[22:10] <Nightrose> but maybe later
[22:10] <Nightrose> would make sense
[22:10] <nixternal> probably 4.1 when nepomuk-kde is totally kickin' arse
[22:10] <Nightrose> right
[22:10] <steveire> Nightrose: great
[22:10] <Nightrose> steveire: why?
[22:10] <mhb> ryanakca: we've got a drupal install ready.
[22:11] <nixternal> mhb: is your kdebi kde4 ready?
[22:11] <steveire> Nightrose: Because I'd like to do a search for a certain defined tag and get my tagged songs and documents and photos etc without starting amarok
[22:12] <Nightrose> steveire: i see
[22:12] <Nightrose> steveire: well wait till we relase at least an alpha and then we will see
[22:12]  * nosrednaekim hugs amarok..
[22:12] <Nightrose> ;-)
[22:12] <nosrednaekim> and opens up juk.... amarok2 doesnt work :(
[22:12] <steveire> Nightrose: OK. I'll poke digikam then too. I think it implements its own tagging system...
[22:14] <Nightrose> nosrednaekim: ;-) yea - it´s not even alpha yet - but we are getting better - lfranchi and hydrogen had an awesome hackfest yesterday night
[22:14] <Nightrose> they rocked
[22:14] <mhb> nixternal: it is not.
[22:14] <mhb> nixternal: I couldn't make it ready because it uses a konsole kpart which is not present in pyqt4.
[22:14] <nixternal> ahhh
[22:14] <txwikinger> did I miss the HugAmorakDay?
[22:16] <nosrednaekim> Nightrose: oh..i'm not anxious...its looking great (I can open it but nothing plays)
[22:16] <mhb> nixternal: I need to get into pykde4...
[22:16] <Nightrose> nosrednaekim: hehe yea
[22:16] <mhb> but I wasn't able to compile it myself, but we've got packages now.
[22:17] <nosrednaekim> mhb: problem is, pykdedoc doesn't seem to be inthe packages.
[22:17] <steveire> Have any of you compiled opensync on gutsy? Mine can't find the syncml plugin for some reason... http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.misc.opensync.user/2251
[22:19] <ryanakca> mhb: wee! goodies
[22:19] <ryanakca> mhb: and me with 2 weeks holidays comming up, I'll be able to work on it :)
[22:20] <nixternal> mhb: groovy, I am interested to watch the progress on that, hoping to pickup pykde4 and pyqt4
[22:20] <nixternal> I have my book, and no more programming courses lined up, so I am ready to go :)
[22:21] <Nightrose> txwikinger: there was none ;-) they are two of our devs who hacked like crazy last night
[22:21] <Nightrose> maybe we should do one later
[22:23] <mhb> ryanakca: we're not allowed to port themes (code) yet, but content we can.
[22:24] <txwikinger> Nightrose: hehe... sounds like a lot of fun
[22:26] <mhb> nixternal: it's the right time to start porting apps.
[22:26] <mhb> I was looking at guidance few hours ago.
[22:27] <nixternal> ya, I would love to get my hands dirty on some python coding
[22:27] <Riddell> mhb: ask sime before porting that, it's his baby
[22:28] <Riddell> of course libpythonise is the tricky bit
[22:28] <Riddell> but it could be ported without that as a start
[22:28] <nosrednaekim> wish plasma had python bindings.
[22:29] <mhb> yes, libpythonize will be the hard part.
[22:30]  * nixternal needs something to eat
[22:30] <nixternal> I feel weak
[22:30] <nixternal> bbiaf
[22:32] <ryanakca> mhb: okies
[22:33] <mhb> ryanakca: we can polish the theme on my Drupal install, and copy over content to the Canonical one, then merge the efforts.
[22:40] <mhb> Riddell: hmm, perhaps you or some other KDE planeteer could blog about it
[22:40] <mhb> Riddell: the shift to KDE4, I mean.
[22:40] <Riddell> I don't really have much to say
[22:41] <mhb> Riddell: I understand it is nothing you personally approve, but I guess KDE developers would be happy to hear it.
[22:43] <mhb> but okay.
[22:45] <ryanakca> mhb: yep ;)
[22:47] <kwwii> Riddell: did you get the link from ruphy?
[22:48] <Riddell> kwwii: yes thanks, just finished downloading
[22:49] <kwwii> Riddell: cool...he did mention that we should not post those pics anywhere public?
[22:49] <Riddell> kwwii: I got the just of that
[22:49] <kwwii> ok, great
[22:50] <kwwii> I am leaving for America tomorrow, so I won't be online except once a day
[22:50] <Riddell> kwwii: we'll pick the wallpaper without you then :)
[22:50] <nosrednaekim> Riddell:  does it have to be a SVG?
[22:50] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: no
[22:51] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: can I nominate one?
[22:51] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: although I'm not a big fan of photo backgrounds, they tend to be too distracting
[22:51] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: sure
[22:51] <nosrednaekim> just one moment, it looks really nice on KDE4
[22:51] <Tonio_> re
[22:51] <Tonio_> is there someone here testing kde4 with ati graphics ?
[22:51] <Tonio_> kwin hangs here, xorg and kwin go to 100%
[22:52] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: using fglrx?
[22:52] <Tonio_> I'm using proprietary ati drivers
[22:52] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: yep
[22:52] <Tonio_> I can start any kde4 application except kwin
[22:52] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: which version
[22:53] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: latest (7.11)
[22:53] <kwwii> hey Tonio_ , long time, no see
[22:53] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: hmm same here, no problems
[22:54] <Tonio_> hey kwwii :)
[22:54] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: maybe specific problem with my card, x1600
[22:54] <Tonio_> kwwii: yeah I've been really suprt busy latelly and wasn't even on he channel
[22:55] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: I have a Xpress1100 and everything works fine (except for the blur plugin)
[22:55] <kwwii> Tonio_: I know the feeling (and I've been on holiday for the last two weeks, but still working)
[22:56] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: :/ I'll have to test with the new upcoming driver
[22:56] <Tonio_> kwwii: yeah, that's really bad sensation :)
[22:56] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: especially since no kwin = no effects
[22:58] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: is there any specifics to your xorg.conf file ?
[22:58] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: any specific plugin to load or so ?
[23:00] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: nope.... nothing special.
[23:01] <nosrednaekim> make sure to enable composite though
[23:01] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: well no composite works here, except everything goes software -> slow
[23:02] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: kwin hangs when I use composite btw
[23:02] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/kubuntu1280x1024?content=65758
[23:02] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: composite is enabled by default right ?
[23:02] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: no entry in xorg.conf means enabled ?
[23:02] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: ug
[23:02] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: yeah
[23:02] <kwwii> nosrednaekim: that would make a killer usplash
[23:03] <nosrednaekim> it looks amazing in KDE4
[23:03] <kwwii> but for the wallpaper there are two things to think of: 1) we usually do not use pics with too much contrast 2) we usually do not use the logo on the wallpaper
[23:04] <nosrednaekim> oh...
[23:05] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: interesting, I can start kwin-kde4 when on kde3 session
[23:05] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: no way when using a full kde4 one
[23:05] <Tonio_> weird isn't it ?
[23:05] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: maybe wipre your .kde4
[23:05] <nosrednaekim> *wipe
[23:05] <Tonio_> maybe, lemme try
[23:09] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: interesting, when I just install kwin-kde4 package, it works
[23:09] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: when I have kdebase-workspace package installed, then kwin hangs, even on window
[23:09] <Tonio_> kde3, sorry
[23:10] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: weird isn't it ? :)
[23:10] <nosrednaekim> yeah...
[23:10] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: I suspect libplasma1
[23:10] <nosrednaekim> could be
[23:11] <Tonio_> no it works.....; I'll have to try all the packages I guess :/
[23:19] <mhb> Riddell: are there packages of python-kde4 for Hardy?
[23:19] <mhb> Riddell: I have installed python-kde4, but it gives me errors when I try importing a module.
[23:19] <mhb> In [3]: import PyKDE4.kdecore
[23:19] <mhb> does not work.
[23:19] <jjesse> hello
[23:20] <mhb> hi jjesse
[23:20] <jjesse> hello mhb
[23:20] <jjesse> i hope i didn't offend in my email about kde4
[23:21] <mhb> jjesse: not me.
[23:21] <Riddell> jjesse: nor me
[23:22] <Riddell> mhb: this one works for me http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tutorials-day/python/hola2-kde.py
[23:22] <jjesse> good
[23:22] <mhb> Riddell: not here.
[23:22] <mhb> it cannot find a module named kdecore.
[23:23] <mhb> is python-kde4-dev all I need?
[23:23] <mayeco> hello
[23:23] <nosrednaekim> I think you need the non-deb
[23:23] <Riddell> mhb: shouldn't be
[23:23] <Riddell> hi mayeco
[23:23] <nosrednaekim> hey mayeco
[23:23] <mayeco> hey!
[23:23] <mayeco> Riddell: what is going one with Kubuntu LTS?
[23:23] <Riddell> mayeco: well, nothing
[23:23] <jjesse> hello mayeco
[23:23] <jjesse> :(
[23:24] <mayeco> :( tell me please
[23:24] <jjesse> what do you mean?
[23:24] <mayeco> we will have KDE4 or KDE3.x in the next LTS
[23:25] <mhb> ah, works now.
[23:25] <nosrednaekim> mayeco: kde4, but its not going to be 8.04
[23:25] <jjesse> i thought kde4 is going to be 8.04 and per Riddell's email it won't be LTS
[23:26] <mhb> jjesse: that is correct.
[23:26] <nosrednaekim> thats what I meant.
[23:26] <jjesse> which i don't like but will get used to
[23:26] <mayeco> my opinion (nobody is asking but) i think that KDE4 is not a good choise for a LTS
[23:26] <mhb> it was decided that we should concentrate on KDE4 and it is what many users desire.
[23:26] <jjesse> mayeco: 8.04 is not lts
[23:26] <mhb> mayeco: it is not, that is why Kubuntu 8.04 will not be LTS.
[23:26] <Riddell> there's no LTS I'm told.  there will be kde 3 and kde 4 CDs, how supported each will be is undecided
[23:27] <mhb> Riddell: from what I have been told, if you and Steve (Langasek?) agree, we can make a KDE4 CD the official one.
[23:28] <jjesse> i guess my confusion and maybe others is why the no LTS at all?  makes kubuntu a 2nd citizen in my view
[23:29] <mayeco> jjesse: you are Jonathan Jesse right?
[23:29] <Riddell> mhb: trouble is that might entail dropping all commercial support for kubuntu (or might not)
[23:29] <jjesse> mayeco:  yes i am
[23:29] <mayeco> ahh ok....
[23:29] <jjesse> have we met?
[23:29] <mayeco> you make Riddellcry
[23:29] <mayeco> :(
[23:29] <Riddell> he's /the/ Jonathan Jesse
[23:30]  * jjesse hides
[23:30] <Riddell> jjesse: for that you'd need to ask the tech board
[23:30] <mayeco> ahhh no jjesse I read the emails in the kubuntu-devel
[23:30] <jjesse> Riddell: i guess i'll have to, i just am trying to understand what changed between UDS and now, but i haven't been able to spend much time devoted to it
[23:32] <mhb> Riddell: well I hope not, it is another Edgy Eft for me.
[23:32] <mhb> they haven't dropped support for Ubuntu then either.
[23:32] <jjesse> ?
[23:33] <Riddell> mhb: putting KDE 4 into main would be tricky.  it doesn't follow policy, lots of depends, and breaks the no duplication rule.  not putting it in main probably (but not certainly) means no commercial support
[23:34] <kwwii> we cannot seriously think about giving support for kde4 yet, can we?
[23:34] <jjesse> so how does this affect the catch-up kubuntu spec from uds?
[23:34] <mayeco> kwwii: nop
[23:34] <mhb> jjesse: not much I hope
[23:35] <Riddell> jjesse: not much, large chunks of it are done anyway
[23:35] <mhb> kwwii: well
[23:35] <mhb> kwwii: we've been stripped of the LTS title
[23:36] <mhb> we're thinking about using it to our advantage.
[23:36] <mayeco> ....
[23:36] <jjesse> Riddell: haven't been following the release cycle very well thsi tiem so i ddin't know
[23:36] <mayeco> what if kubuntu 8.04 come with the last 3.x...
[23:36] <kwwii> mhb: beleive me I understand the whole situation :-)
[23:36] <jjesse> mayeco: i thought that was the last decision i knew of to make it LTS
[23:37] <mhb> kwwii: I do believe you, your last question sounded kind of strange to me
[23:37] <kwwii> mhb: i think even a smaller support contract for kde4 would be silly, even by the time that hardy comes out
[23:38] <kwwii> anyway, i am not a dev so it has little to do with me
[23:39] <mayeco> jjesse: what do you mean?
[23:39] <kwwii> correct me if I am wrong but jjesse's point is that at the UDS we thought there would be a kde3.5 based LTS release called 8.0.4
[23:39] <jjesse> mayeco: the last decision i thought was 8.04 would include last 3.x and be  lts, but that has changed now
[23:40] <jjesse> kwwii: that was my view
[23:40] <kwwii> jjesse: and at UDS we thought that we were making hardy ubuntu black, that has changed as well :p
[23:40] <mayeco> jjesse: why that change now?
[23:41] <mhb> kwwii: if we go conservative and ship just KDE3, we'll please nobody
[23:41] <mhb> it will not be an LTS and the users would seek another KDE4 distro.
[23:41] <Riddell> (except commercial users)
[23:41] <kwwii> mhb: sure, I understand the situation, just trying to clear things up
[23:41] <mayeco> right!
[23:42] <cheguevara_> evening
[23:42] <nosrednaekim> evening
[23:42] <nosrednaekim> how many commercial users are there?
[23:42] <kwwii> Riddell: I guess it also has a negative impact on the other distros based on kubuntu
[23:42] <mhb> Riddell: we won't please them as much as an LTS might have.
[23:42] <mayeco> KDE4 users are hackers and not commercial users... people need stability and use KDE4 playing with fire
[23:43] <Riddell> mhb: yeah
[23:43] <kwwii> the thing about the LTS is that companies want something which is supported long term
[23:43] <jjesse> or you get idiots like me who have installed kde4 and somehow lost the system tray and all those icons and can't figure out what to do next :(
[23:44] <mhb> I totally understand the LTS meaning and all. I had no problems with it until now.
[23:44] <nosrednaekim> jjesse: in kde3?
[23:44] <jjesse> kde4
[23:44] <mayeco> plasma crash every 5 mins
[23:44] <jjesse> mayeco: if it lasts that long
[23:45] <cheguevara_> think about this way if there's no LTS then there's less maintenance effort later on
[23:45] <mhb> but now, we can either ship non-LTS KDE3 (stable, but not LTS as the flagship is) or please our users and upstream devs by daring
[23:45] <cheguevara_> instead of backporting fixes for 3 years we can concentrate on new versions
[23:45] <mayeco> jjesse: yeahh
[23:45] <mayeco> 5 minutes if you are lucky
[23:45] <nosrednaekim> plasma has not crashed on me EVER
[23:46] <mayeco> nosrednaekim: maybe you dont do nothing
[23:46] <nosrednaekim> mayeco: i'musing it full time. and have been for over a weel
[23:46] <mayeco> you have to used... and tested
[23:46] <mayeco> close plasmoids faster
[23:46] <mayeco> open and close faster
[23:46] <mayeco> then... see the crash
[23:46] <nosrednaekim> k.. will try
[23:47] <mayeco> i think that kde4 will not be ready in january
[23:47] <nosrednaekim> mayeco: not crashing..
[23:47] <mayeco> ... you are luky
[23:47] <mhb> mayeco: it may not be, but it can be ready in april :o)
[23:47] <jjesse> it crashes for me doing nothing
[23:48] <mhb> they are trying hard to make it worth it, believe me
[23:48] <Riddell> cheguevara_: backporting fixes isn't the time sync, upgrade testing is
[23:48] <mhb> they know the hype is hard
[23:48] <mayeco> I know that mhb
[23:48] <cheguevara_> Riddell, yeah true
[23:48] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: got it to work, didn't change anything :) strange
[23:48] <mhb> besides, we're going to ship an advanced KDE4 desktop with the stability of some of the best KDE3 apps
[23:48] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: btw performances are really poor, is that known problem ? It lags a lot on the desktop
[23:48] <cheguevara_> like the tons of fixes going into dapper -> hardy updates atm in ubuntu
[23:49] <mayeco> I get mmmm 50-70 emails every day from kde mail lists
[23:49] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: I was expecting better with an rc2
[23:49] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: turn off compoostiing
[23:49] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: everything is fast for me
[23:49] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: but that means no effects right ?
[23:49] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: well, what I mean is disable the effects
[23:50] <mayeco> Riddell: how do you hack in kde4? do you use Xephyr?
[23:50] <cheguevara_> btw Riddell about libgif, do you want all the debdiffs in that bug report?
[23:50] <Riddell> mayeco: I use it as my main desktop
[23:50] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: well without effects, it is fast, but it is strange to me that effects are that slow with my config....
[23:50] <Riddell> cheguevara_: what else needs changed?  surely the rest just need recompiled?
[23:50] <mayeco> ahhhh Riddell nice
[23:51] <kwwii> nixternal: nice email, well put
[23:51] <cheguevara_> Riddell, yeah but won't it be more convenient if I post the debdiffs to change build depends and changelog
[23:51] <nixternal> why thank you :)
[23:51] <nixternal> man, those chips didn't fill up my hunger
[23:51] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: which ones did you have on?
[23:51] <Riddell> cheguevara_: I think I convinced nixternal to handle that, and a couple of other kde 4 changes, although today he seems to be busy being our PR star
[23:51] <nixternal> jjesse: man, I can't believe you made him cry :p
[23:51] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: just default
[23:51] <Riddell> nixternal: oy, no winding people up!
[23:51] <cheguevara_> lol
[23:51] <nixternal> a *COUPLE* of other KDE 4 changes? there is a whole slew of changes :)
[23:51] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: reducing a window causes a 1 sec lag for example
[23:52] <cheguevara_> Riddell, so is there anything you want me to do then?
[23:52] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: yeah, I turned off that effect.
[23:52] <imbrandon> Riddell: the bindings arent that bad, i'll probably have something finished tonight
[23:52] <nixternal> Riddell: I can wind up jjesse, he deserves a wind up every now and then :)
[23:52] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: I just have transparency, expose and shadows on.
[23:52] <Riddell> cheguevara_: if there's other build-dep changes needed that would help, but surely only kdelibs builds against libgif directly?
[23:52] <nixternal> jjesse: you know what this means though right? KDE 3 and KDE 4 documentation
[23:52]  * kwwii hunts for the ascii code of the glyph that looks like a teardrop
[23:52] <Tonio_> nosrednaekim: well I hope they'll improve performances before the oficial release, cause it is currently poor compared to compiz for example
[23:52] <Riddell> imbrandon: excellent, but mind some of those take a long long time to compile
[23:53] <mhb> we're going to have a KDE3 CD and a KDE4 CD.
[23:53] <nosrednaekim> Tonio_: this is true... but at least its stable
[23:53] <cheguevara_> Riddell, yeah, I am talking about all the other packages, especially the ones in main :)
[23:53] <imbrandon> Riddell: yea, i comendeerd a fast build machine
[23:53] <Tonio_> yeah
[23:53] <mhb> the KDE3 CD needs just a bit of new artwork
[23:53] <cheguevara_> not only kde specific ones that is
[23:53] <mhb> we can leave it be and concentrate on making KDE4 CD rock.
[23:53] <Riddell> mhb: I've got 100 wallpapers for us to chose from
[23:53] <imbrandon> Riddell: btw i just placed an order today for a amd x2 dual core 4600+ woot
[23:53] <Riddell> imbrandon: laptop or desktop?
[23:53] <nixternal> imbrandon: did you place one for me too?
[23:53] <imbrandon> desktop
[23:53] <mhb> don't forget, KDE's main power are the great apps that come with it
[23:54] <Riddell> imbrandon: bling bling.  hopefully I'll be ordering a new laptop tomorrow
[23:54] <nixternal> Riddell: order one for me too
[23:54] <imbrandon> nice 3epc ?
[23:54] <nixternal> hehe
[23:54] <imbrandon> hehe
[23:54] <mhb> and rock stars like k3b, kaffeine, amarok will be still KDE3, rock solid and useful
[23:54] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: get one of those new ubuntu dells
[23:54] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: I need three mouse buttons and a nipple (I'm not a trackpad fan)
[23:54] <mhb> if they manage to stabilize plasma, the only troublesome part of KDE4 now (well kwin compositing is terrible too, but that can be disabled)
[23:54] <Riddell> so thinkpad it is
[23:55] <nosrednaekim> neither am I... I use a wireless mouse.
[23:55] <nixternal> imbrandon: is sbuild superior to pbuilder when I want to build say 4 packages at once?
[23:55] <nixternal> as it stands, pbuilder chokes on 2 packages at once
[23:55] <imbrandon> nixternal: yea sbuild == love
[23:55] <jjesse> why i am not suprised Riddell is a nipple fan
[23:55] <cheguevara_> lol
[23:55] <nixternal> wtf
[23:55] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[23:55] <imbrandon> heh laptop wise i'm always a apple fan
[23:55] <nixternal> omg, I missed him say that about the laptop
[23:55] <nixternal> not apple, nipple
[23:55] <cheguevara_> dirty mind :P
[23:55] <kwwii> makes perfect sense, he is going to be my first model for the next ubuntu calendar shots
[23:56] <cheguevara_> haha
[23:56] <imbrandon> lol
[23:56] <nixternal> haha, w00t
[23:56] <jjesse> will the calendar be black?  cause i read that on a blog
[23:56] <Riddell> oh children
[23:56] <cheguevara_> :P
[23:56] <nixternal> hahahahahha
[23:56] <nixternal> yes dad?
[23:56] <imbrandon> wasent it Riddell's S.O. that was the kubuntu gurl ?
[23:56] <imbrandon> :)
[23:56] <cheguevara_> Riddell will stand out in his sexy hat :P
[23:57] <mayeco> hahahahahahaaaaaaa
[23:57] <nosrednaekim> lol
[23:57] <Riddell> I was only 3/4 along the scale http://xkcd.com/243/
[23:57] <nixternal> hahahah#@#GAHAHA
[23:57] <imbrandon> Riddell: hahahahahaha
[23:57] <nixternal> yay, Dr. Pepper through the nose is a hoot
[23:59] <cheguevara_> lol
[23:59] <imbrandon> kdebindings-kde4_3.97.0+svn20071220.orig.tar.gz mmmm
[23:59] <imbrandon> fresh svn smells good in the morning
[23:59] <cheguevara_> nixternal, you sound very marketing on your blog post