[00:00] <nixternal> I tend to have that effect since I spent the last 10 years of my life going to school for it :)
[00:00] <Riddell> imbrandon: I'd go with just 3.97, that might needs a newer kdelibs
[00:00] <Riddell> nixternal: how was your last exam?
[00:00] <cheguevara_> ah figures :P
[00:01] <nixternal> well, considering I coded in standard and Konqueror, FF, Opera, and Safari understand what standard is, the professor had a heart attack when it didn't work in IE...but all went well
[00:01] <imbrandon> Riddell: ok
[00:02] <nixternal> note to javascript developers, when jslint says it is perfect, that means it won't work in IE :p
[00:02] <cheguevara_> ;P
[00:03] <mayeco> gmail still dont work in konqueror 3.97.1
[00:03] <cheguevara_> apparently IE 8 will pass the acid2 test
[00:03] <nixternal> ya, I read that...about time
[00:03] <nixternal> now FF just needs to pass it
[00:04] <cheguevara_> its planned for gecko 1.9 i think
[00:06] <cheguevara_> too bad Ubulette's FF 3 build don't show most of the icons on KDE for some reason
[00:06] <jjesse> there is an interesting video at channel9.msdn.com w/ the ie team
[00:07] <kwwii> cheguevara_: are you sure that was just in kde?
[00:08] <cheguevara_> kwwii, am not sure, there was a couple of gnome people complaining, but I think they sorted it by installing the gnome support package
[00:08] <cheguevara_> the reply i got form Ubulette is something like "I'll look to it in the future, but I don't really care that much since Ubuntu uses gnome..."
[00:09] <cheguevara_> *into it
[00:09] <imbrandon> ...
[00:09] <mhb> cheguevara_: who ís that?
[00:10] <cheguevara_> his cairo/fontconfig builds managed to fix a kde's ugly password dots somehow though
[00:10] <jjesse> can i ask a kde4 question?
[00:10] <cheguevara_> mhb, a guy from the ubuntu mozilla team
[00:10] <imbrandon> jjesse: never
[00:10] <mhb> jjesse: sure
[00:10] <jjesse> so the "system tray" or whatever that runs in the bottom, how do i get it back?
[00:10] <jjesse> do i have to build each widget or ?
[00:10] <kwwii> cheguevara_: right, that was a bug in gutsy as well
[00:11] <cheguevara_> kwwii, yeah but it surfaced again in hardy
[00:11] <cheguevara_> after the new fontconfig got uploaded
[00:11] <kwwii> sure, we haven't fixed it yet :p
[00:11] <kwwii> it has something to do with the loading of a different theme irrc
[00:11] <kwwii> ie, if you use the normal FF icons it works fine
[00:12] <kwwii> or something like that, all I know is 1) it is a code problem and 2) it will be fixed for hardy
[00:12] <cheguevara_> kwwii, are you talking about the password dots or the missing icons?
[00:13] <kwwii> cheguevara_: the icons
[00:13] <jjesse> anyone?
[00:13] <cheguevara_> kwwii, right
[00:13] <cheguevara_> sorry got a bit confused
[00:13] <kwwii> :-)
[00:13] <mayeco> jjesse: nobody...
[00:13] <cheguevara_> kwwii, I still use it and just guess where my refresh button is lol
[00:14] <mhb> jjesse: I think the tray is here now, isn't there?
[00:14] <mhb> jjesse: if not, try:
[00:14] <jjesse> mine disappeared some how, complete with kmenu
[00:14] <mhb> jjesse: a) removing all your build files, sometimes old plasmoids overlap and that is not nice.
[00:14] <mhb> jjesse: b) removing the .kde4 directory.
[00:14] <cheguevara_> its not kmenu any more :p
[00:14] <mayeco> kmenu is not in kde4
[00:14] <mayeco> yah
[00:15] <mayeco> no more kmenu...
[00:15] <mayeco> now everything is plasma... :D
[00:15] <jjesse> mhb: i didn't build from scracth (used kubuntu packages)it all the sudden disappeared one restart
[00:15] <cheguevara_> or kicker :P
[00:15] <mhb> jjesse: hmm, strange-o
[00:15] <mayeco> ahaha he left
[00:15] <cheguevara_> Riddell, so what about libgif then, you want me to do rebuilds of all the affected packages
[00:15] <Riddell> hi rdieter, have you seen my qt port of system-config-printer-applet? http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/printer-setup.png
[00:16] <rdieter> Riddell: neat.
[00:17] <kwwii> wow, Riddell has the same printer as I
[00:17] <Riddell> rdieter: the author of the gtk side doesn't seem terribly keen to let me work in his repository (or maybe he's just gone on christmas holiday)
[00:17] <jjesse> removing the .kde4 dir did it thanks
[00:17] <Riddell> rdieter: do you think the fedora-kde team would package and use it?
[00:18] <Riddell> kwwii: that's the one mepis bought me
[00:18] <rdieter> Riddell: I'd bet on the latter (his busy/on-holiday), sure, we'd be interested.
[00:18] <Riddell> rdieter: cool, I'll let you know when it's in a state to be packaged
[00:19] <rdieter> looking forward to it.
[00:20] <mhb> so, are we going to have a meeting on Saturday?
[00:20] <kwwii> Riddell: only in ubuntu mine always says that it is low on ink - I thought it was a bug but perhaps the printer itself is defect
[00:20] <mhb> it might be a good time to get everyone's opinions together.
[00:20] <Riddell> kwwii: ah, mine too
[00:20] <Riddell> mhb: I hope so, although I can't guarantee to be there
[00:21] <mhb> well we'll just talk about current events, no need to decide.
[00:21] <mhb> so go ahead and enjoy the holidays
[00:21] <Riddell> nixternal: could you add it to the fridge calendar?
[00:22] <nixternal> date and time?
[00:22] <cheguevara_> when's alpha 2 coming out then
[00:22] <cheguevara_> still seems to be a lot of activity in archives
[00:23] <Riddell> nixternal: Saturday 22nd at 11:00 UTC
[00:23] <Riddell> cheguevara_: maybe tomorrow, there's still issues with the desktop ones
[00:23] <nixternal> gotcha
[00:23] <cheguevara_> ah
[00:26] <nixternal> added to the fridge
[00:27] <ardchoille> I always get hungry when people refer to the fridge
[00:27] <cheguevara_> Riddell, so just so I don't do useless work what do you want me to do with the libgif thing? Rebuild all the affected packages (not only kde ones) and post debdiffs to speed it up
[00:27] <cheguevara_> ardchoille: lol
[00:27] <Riddell> cheguevara_: yeah, everything in apt-cache rdepends libungif4g
[00:28] <cheguevara_> Riddell: gotcha
[00:29] <imbrandon> Riddell: should i add the bindings from playground too ( like phpqt ) or like later make a kdebindings-extra-kde4 with those
[00:30] <cheguevara_> mmm phpqt
[00:30] <Riddell> imbrandon: they should be kept separate until they're in KDE proper
[00:31] <imbrandon> k
[00:31] <imbrandon> in that case i'll definately have something finished tonight i'd say i'm aobut 50% done
[00:31] <mhb> how do you start a KDE4 session in kubuntu?
[00:32] <cheguevara_> hmmm
[00:32] <nosrednaekim> mhb: log out and select kde4 under sessions
[00:32] <cheguevara_> whats control.in used for (vs just control)
[00:33] <mhb> cheguevara_: the .in means it will get processed
[00:33] <mhb> cheguevara_: something will process control.in into control.
[00:33] <cheguevara_> so just like Makefile.in basically
[00:35] <imbrandon> yup
[00:36]  * Riddell snoozes
[00:36] <mhb> good night
[00:37] <cheguevara_> night Riddell
[00:59] <cheguevara_> hmm
[00:59] <cheguevara_> how come pdebuild some times doesn't start building in a chroot
[01:00] <cheguevara_> but just starts building same way as debuild
[01:32] <nixternal> awesome! we just played Santa for a needy family...it was really neat
[01:34] <nosrednaekim> :D
[01:38] <cheguevara_> :P
[01:44] <nixternal> my lord, kde4libs is still building
[01:44] <nosrednaekim> it only took an hour on my TurionX2
[01:44] <nixternal> I think I have easily pushed that
[01:44] <cheguevara_> lol
[01:44] <cheguevara_> didn't take that long on my lappy actually
[01:44] <nixternal> it only takes about 15 minutes on my desktop, not running debuild, but doing a svn build
[01:45] <cheguevara_> yeah thats what i did yesterday
[01:45] <nixternal> I am running 'debuild -nc' just to make sure it works out and to make sure no files were lost in the debian build process
[01:45] <cheguevara_> svn looks a bit better then rc 2
[01:45] <cheguevara_> now emacs22
[01:45] <cheguevara_> thats taking long to build
[01:46] <nixternal> oh ya
[01:46] <nixternal> I remember when the guy who is maintaining started the buzz earlier this year on it, so I grabbed it and built for some of the Edgy users and it was insane
[01:47] <cheguevara_> heh
[01:47] <cheguevara_> ah its done
[01:47] <cheguevara_> yay
[01:47] <cheguevara_> thats all the packages in main built fine agains libgif
[01:49]  * cheguevara_ is thinking about the 30 something in universe
[01:50] <cheguevara_> hey Hobbsee
[01:51] <Hobbsee> heya!
[01:52] <cheguevara_> how are you today>
[01:52] <cheguevara_> *?
[01:54] <Hobbsee> doing OK
[01:54]  * Hobbsee reads the kubuntu list
[01:55] <cheguevara_> no LTS :P
[01:55] <Hobbsee> yes, i know that
[01:56] <Hobbsee> but seeing the backlash
[01:56] <cheguevara_> what do you mean
[01:57] <Hobbsee> from waht other kubuntu people said about it
[01:58] <cheguevara_> ah gotcha
[02:01] <nosrednaekim> I think  most of the devs like it..
[02:01]  * Hobbsee spoke to keybuk about it (member of the TB), and it all sounded faily sane
[02:01] <Hobbsee> and there are some really wrong perceptions out there
[02:02] <nixternal> Hobbsee: what wrong perceptions?
[02:03] <Hobbsee> nixternal: mainly about what canonical is demanding kubuntu do.  Riddell has a free reign (almost fully) over what he wants to do, and it's otherwise community driven
[02:03] <cheguevara_> there's really no point of putting a lot of work into kde 3 just to pretty much throw it away in hardy+1
[02:03] <Hobbsee> cheguevara_: that was my logic
[02:03] <nixternal> yup
[02:04] <cheguevara_> especially with the highly limited resources available
[02:04] <Hobbsee> nixternal: the specs are supposed to be what the community (& riddell) has come up with that they want to acheive for the next release, and then get discussed at UDS
[02:05] <cheguevara_> would be great if kde 4.1 is out before hardy
[02:06] <nosrednaekim> cheguevara_: it won't be
[02:06] <cheguevara_> nosrednaekim, definitely?
[02:07] <nosrednaekim> cheguevara_: 99% sure
[02:07] <cheguevara_> damn
[02:07] <cheguevara_> actually yeah you are probably right, there's a lot of stuff thats been pushed to 4.1
[02:07] <nosrednaekim> thats like 2 months
[02:08] <cheguevara_> are both KDEs gonna fit on the cd?
[02:08] <Hobbsee> no
[02:10] <cheguevara_> so it's still gonna be a kde3 and kde4 cd
[02:12] <cheguevara_> all in all this dev cycle is about to get very fun :P
[02:13] <nosrednaekim> heh
[02:13] <Hobbsee> i don't know what they'll do w.r..t cds
[02:14] <cheguevara_> yeah because if a user is gonna have a choice of the 2, the cds can't be separate
[02:14] <Hobbsee> the cds will have to be separate.
[02:14] <cheguevara_> yeah i am saying
[02:14] <Hobbsee> but, you can install one from the other, etc
[02:14] <cheguevara_> separate as in not related to each other
[02:14] <Hobbsee> oh right, ye
[02:15] <Hobbsee> s
[02:15] <Hobbsee> i thought you were insisting that they both had to go on hte same cd
[02:15] <cheguevara_> nah i know thats not possible
[02:15] <cheguevara_> current kde 3 barely fits :P
[02:16] <nosrednaekim> thats because of Open office
[02:17] <cheguevara_> good point
[02:17] <cheguevara_> is the new koffice any good
[02:20] <nosrednaekim> mmmh
[02:21] <nosrednaekim> not really
[02:21] <cheguevara_> figures...
[02:40] <blizzzek> gn8
[02:40] <cheguevara_> night
[02:43] <cheguevara_> hmmm
[02:43] <cheguevara_> universe and main might be merging eh
[02:44] <Hobbsee> ish
[02:44] <Hobbsee> something like that.
[02:44] <cheguevara_> even Mark posted on the topic :P
[02:45] <ardchoille> What I need is more hands and eyes.. so I can do bug triage, packaging and support in #kubuntu
[02:45] <ardchoille> all at once
[02:45] <Hobbsee> good luck :)
[02:45] <ardchoille> lol
[02:45] <cheguevara_> lol
[04:02] <cheguevara_> good night
[04:02]  * DaSkreech bows
[04:06] <nixternal> DaSkreech: I was thinking about you earlier
[04:06] <nixternal> I watched Cool Runnings :)
[04:06] <ScottK> Heya nixternal.
[04:06] <ScottK> Glad you're happy with the news.
[04:06] <nixternal> wasabi ScottK
[04:06] <nixternal> oh hell ya!
[04:06] <nixternal> I was beginning to really worry
[04:07] <ScottK> I think it's great for enthusiasts.  I'm not sure it's so great for those of use trying to get work done.
[04:07] <ScottK> My primary desktop is still dapper because I don't like to mess with it.
[04:07] <nixternal> why not? you will still have a choice between KDE 3 and KDE 4
[04:07] <DaSkreech> nixternal: of course that would invoke images of me
[04:07] <nixternal> hehe
[04:08] <ScottK> Well I had the idea KDE3 was going to be well supported in Hardy.  Now it appears not.
[04:08] <DaSkreech> nixternal: news?
[04:08] <nixternal> it will still be supported, but does it make sense to concentrate on a desktop environment that will be losing support though?
[04:09] <nixternal> also kde 3 apps right now aren't being worked on as upstream efforts are kde 4 as well
[04:09] <ScottK> nixternal: I'd say does it make sense to concentrate on a bleeding edge brand new thing that won't be ready for prime time until the next release?
[04:09] <nixternal> I say yes...easier to work on that than use the limited manpower we have to support the unsupported
[04:10] <ScottK> So now I have the choice between unsupported old crap and bleeding edge incomplete unstable new crap.
[04:10] <ScottK> Not where I want to be.
[04:11] <DaSkreech> ScottK: well if they are both crap....
[04:11] <DaSkreech> Does it make a difference?
[04:11] <ScottK> Well our recent KDE3 releases haven't been.
[04:12] <DaSkreech> Well use KDE3 then
[04:12] <ScottK> Except if we aren't expending energy to integrate it with the new packages in Hardy, bitrot sets in.
[04:13] <ScottK> Kubuntu has, IMO, done a really good job keeping KDE3 integrated and working well even though upstream's focus has been on KDE4 for quite a while.
[04:14] <ScottK> I would have been nice to get another KDE3 LTS release so that people worried a lot about stability would have a place to wait for KDE4 to shape up in it's own good time.
[04:14] <ScottK> My view is we could have made a good KDE3 release if we'd decided to.  No way is KDE4 going to be ready for prime time no matter what we do.
[04:15] <ScottK> Oh well.
[04:15] <nixternal> how is Dapper any more stable than Feisty or Gutsy though?
[04:15] <ScottK> It's decided.
[04:16] <ScottK> I've used this box since just after Dapper was released.  It's not that Dapper is more stable, it's that I have had to risk the box to upgrades.
[04:16] <nixternal> just imagine if every distribution had the mindset that "kde4 will not be ready for prime time no matter what is done."  it would never get a chance to evolve
[04:16] <nixternal> I have dist-upgraded at the beginning of every dev cycle, so I really don't know what the stable release are really like, except for what people tell me
[04:17] <nixternal> and thus far, everything I have been told about Kubuntu Gutsy hasn't been the greatest
[04:17] <ScottK> Well it feels to me like Kubuntu is now for enthusiasts only.
[04:17] <ScottK> I like Gutsy.  I just put it on my new Dell laptop and it just totally worked.
[04:17] <nixternal> I never had a problem with it either
[04:19] <DaSkreech> well I dunno
[04:19] <DaSkreech> I'd assume that if the Corporate clients asked for a KDE3 hardy they would get it
[04:19] <DaSkreech> and they would probably get it by PPA
[04:20] <nixternal> honestly I think that KDE dropping future support for KDE 3 isn't the hottest idea actually
[04:20] <DaSkreech> I wonder if there can be something semi official worked out
[04:20] <nixternal> we will have both KDE 3 and KDE 4 releases
[04:20] <nixternal> but we won't be LTS
[04:20] <nixternal> we are just dropping the tag
[04:20] <jjesse> we should be lts
[04:21] <nixternal> if LTS makes everyone warm and fuzzy, and customers want to start paying for support so we can maintain something that won't be maintained for the next 3 years, then I am down with it
[04:21] <jjesse> if we had another paid full time develper we wouldn't be having this converstaion
[04:21] <nixternal> come this time next year, bug fixes, updates and what not that are for KDE 3 will be 100% us, and we just don't have the manpower to take on such a task
[04:21] <nixternal> one more full-time dev wouldn't even help it
[04:22] <nixternal> we don't even have 1/10th what Ubuntu has
[04:22] <jjesse> it would ease the discussion
[04:22] <nixternal> paid and unpaid
[04:22] <nixternal> if you look at all of the large Kubuntu rollouts, they aren't Dapper
[04:22] <nixternal> they are Feisty or newer
[04:22] <DaSkreech> Wait we are dropping KDE3?
[04:22] <nixternal> the French Parliament nor the Canary Islands chose LTS
[04:23] <nixternal> no we aren't dropping KDE 3
[04:23] <nixternal> we will have 2 choices for Hardy
[04:23] <nixternal> Choice 1:  KDE 3
[04:23] <nixternal> Choice 2:  KDE 4
[04:25] <jjesse> will be an early adopter of kde4 really help with adding those extra devs?  i would argue it doesn't until we get more full time paid support
[04:26] <nixternal> well by us having a kde 4 release will hopefully bring in new interest, as it has for openSUSE, Fedora, Foresight, PC Linux OS, and more
[04:28] <nixternal> if we don't adopt now, we will be the only distro that hasn't...and you thought we were behind now, we would be so far behind our goal would be unreachable pretty much
[04:29] <jjesse> i guess i'm just frustrated after using ubuntu all week and seeing how much further ahead and polished it seems
[04:29] <jjesse> my wife can use ubuntu and doesn't understand kubuntu
[04:30] <DaSkreech> do we get more money slushed to us if more companies select Kubuntu as it's OS when it pays Canonical?
[04:31] <jjesse> DaSkreech: being cynical i would argue that we wouldn't
[04:31] <nixternal> and our KDE 3 has pretty much completed all of the "catchup" stuff that was proposed at UDS, but does it make sense to write code for something that won't be around, only to have to rewrite it for our future?
[04:31] <Hobbsee> jjesse: agreed @ ubuntu
[04:33] <nixternal> that is only because Ubuntu has 10 times what we have volunteer wise
[04:33] <jjesse> not only volunteer wise but paid wise and it shows
[04:34]  * jjesse is a little frustrated today
[04:34] <nixternal> hehe
[04:34] <nixternal> paid wise we can't do nothing about, that is Canonical and they made it clear we are staying the way we are
[04:35] <jjesse> didn't mark at one time say there was going to be another paid dev?
[04:36] <nixternal> I believe so, but at OpenWeek Jucato busted him on it
[04:36] <Jucato> oooh I was beeped :)
[04:36] <nixternal> hehe
[04:36] <Jucato> still trying to read the scrollback :)
[04:36] <nixternal> Jucato: just talking about how you attacked sabdfl while he was on the stand :p
[04:37] <Jucato> attacked? oh heavens no! I was merely trying to lure him into a trap :D
[04:37] <Jucato> (glad Lure isn't around :P)
[04:37] <DaSkreech> ha ha
[04:37] <jjesse> and you were successfull
[04:37] <Jucato> heh :)
[04:38] <Jucato> glad you're enjoying Ubuntu as much as I'm rediscovering the joys of XP
[04:38]  * Jucato runs for his life
[04:38] <nixternal> hahahaha
[04:39] <DaSkreech> !vista
[04:39] <ubotu> vista is the new operating system by the evil overlords from Redmond. For more information, see http://www.badvista.org
[04:39] <Jucato> !visternal
[04:39] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[04:40] <Jucato> oh man do I need money right now :)
[04:40] <jjesse> ok heading to time bed, just finished wrapping wifes presents
[04:40] <nixternal> hehe
[04:40] <DaSkreech> Tell me about it I may have to rob my boss to reach the release party
[04:40] <Jucato> ok I just misread that :)
[04:40] <nixternal> my dog ate 2 of my presents this morning
[04:40] <nixternal> he didn't just unwrap them, he ate them
[04:40] <DaSkreech> Jucato: you too?
[04:40] <Jucato> finished wrapping wifes...
[04:41] <DaSkreech> plesants?
[04:41] <Jucato> ok now to read scrollbacks :)
[04:44] <Jucato> ok done :)
[04:44] <Jucato> now I have to wash my brain w/ some mt.dew :P
[04:46] <DaSkreech> code monkey like tab
[04:53]  * Jucato sighs
[04:53] <Jucato> oops sighed in the wrong room...
[04:53]  * DaSkreech is too tired to link that back into a jucato wife wrapping joke
[04:54] <DaSkreech> So let me get this sorted
[04:54] <DaSkreech> Ubuntu is the only one shipping LTS in 8.04 ?
[04:55] <Jucato> yes
[04:57] <nixternal> NO
[04:57] <nixternal> put it this way, as it currently stands, Kubuntu is the only one not shipping an LTS
[04:57] <nixternal> unless Edubuntu and Xubuntu don't do LTS, then you would be correct I guess :)
[04:58] <Jucato> I wasn't really considering Edubuntu...
[04:58] <Hobbsee> edubuntu isn't even having a separate release
[04:58] <Hobbsee> edubuntu has an addon cd to ubuntu now
[04:58] <nixternal> ahhh
[04:58] <Jucato> but given how Xubuntu packages have been/are being moved to universe, I don't think Xubuntu will have LTS :)
[04:58] <Hobbsee> xubuntu doesn't do LTS, as it's not commercially supported anyway
[04:58]  * Jucato nods
[04:59] <Hobbsee> unless it's community is doing security fixes for it
[04:59] <Jucato> that myth was clarified in devel-discuss...
[04:59] <Jucato> (in a few threads)
[04:59] <Jucato> hm.. I'm not sure what commercial support for Kubuntu even really means anyway :P
[05:00] <nixternal> well if you call asking for it, then it means nothing, as the people answering the phones in Canada don't know how to fix it
[05:00] <Hobbsee> Jucato: that they can call up montreal, and get support
[05:00] <Hobbsee> and that there are security fixes for X years, done by the paid security people
[05:00] <nixternal> I helped a local guy, along with mjg59 on an issue that the tech support couldn't figure out in a month
[05:00]  * Jucato whistles...
[05:00] <nixternal> oh, and we did it in less than 10 minutes
[05:00] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: does that mean that edubuntu is back down to one cd?
[05:01] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: it's an addon to ubuntu, so i think so, yes
[05:01] <Jucato> Hobbsee: "done by the paid security people" <-- I doubt that applies to Kubuntu anyway :)
[05:01] <Jucato> at least for the KDE packages...
[05:02] <Hobbsee> Jucato: no, kees has done some of them
[05:02] <Jucato> oh
[05:02] <nixternal> kwwii_: you coming to the midwest?
[05:02] <Jucato> nice then
[05:02] <nixternal> he is probably in route to the states already, or still sleeping
[05:02] <Jucato> oh well... spilt milk :)
[05:02] <nixternal> hopefully he will be coming here to Chicago, so I can test out the whole "Germans can drink" theory :)
[05:03] <Jucato> hahah :)
[05:03] <nixternal> hey, it's for science
[05:03] <Jucato> nixternal: btw, where did you get the announcement about KDE dropping support for KDE3?
[05:04] <nixternal> well, they are discussing right now with mass support on closing everything KDE 3 in b.k.o
[05:04]  * Jucato has been out of the loop...
[05:04] <Jucato> oh that?
[05:04] <nixternal> ya, but now they are wondering when I guess..I will have to read all of the posts to be exact
[05:04]  * Jucato doesn't consider that as an indicator
[05:05] <Jucato> :P
[05:05] <nixternal> no, but consider that 3.5.8 could be the last, and if not, then 3.5.9 will definitely be the last
[05:05] <Jucato> 3.5.9 I think... but afaik it will still be supported for some time, probably through other means (KDAB, PIM enterprise...)
[05:06] <Jucato> but then again... I've been out of the loop for a week so I can't say :)
[05:06] <nixternal> I am looking at all of the KDE 3.5 commits now to see what all has been done
[05:06] <nixternal> thus far, it seems that scripty is tops :)
[05:06] <Jucato> heheh
[05:08] <Jucato> I just wished the TB just informed us a bit sooner about this... or even perhaps consulted us? (or they did, but I wasn't around?)
[05:09] <Jucato> hm... tbh, I don't think the "LTS" tag really does much for us except for marketing. so it practically doesn't matter if 8.04 is LTS or not. except now we have an excuse to focus more on KDE4 :D
[05:11] <Jucato> either way, nixternal will surely rock :)
[05:12] <DaSkreech> ha ha
[05:12] <nixternal> KDE 3 codebase will be left open for security and code-loss issues from what I am reading
[05:16] <nixternal> the last kdebase in the kde3 branch, by a human being, was October
[05:17] <Jucato> not that too long ago... but yeah, all hands are on kicking 4.0 out the door right now
[05:17]  * Jucato is imagining kde3 to get some attention a bit after that... just a bit :)
[05:18] <nixternal> and that attention will of course make its way into Kubuntu
[05:19] <DaSkreech> KDE 3 will probably have commits for a year after KDE4 starts shipping
[05:20] <Jucato> I can still remember what aseigo said before, that some KDE deployments were still using KDE 2... and that was early this year...
[05:21] <DaSkreech> Using and commiting are two things in my mind
[05:22] <Jucato> true
[05:25] <ScottK> Well it's probably just me, but my perception is we just went from Hardy being about Kubuntu with KDE3 catching up with Ubuntu and KDE4 getting in for testing and enthusiasts use to lets do KDE4 and not worry to much about KDE3.
[05:26] <ScottK> For someone who planned to pretty much live in KDE3, that's a big shift, LTS or not.
[05:32] <DaSkreech> Yeah it is
[05:32] <DaSkreech> I was comfortable with where we were at except for the whole maintain KDE3 till time breaks down part
[05:33] <ScottK> Personally, I think Hardy +1 would have been the time to shift to KDE4 by default and put a big push behind it.
[05:34] <Jucato> but then we'd be behind everyone else... maybe... dunno :)
[05:35] <Jucato> well at least nixternal's enthusiastic/excited/invigorated/motivated about this. that's all the reassurance I need :)
[05:36] <nixternal> someone has to be
[05:36] <Hobbsee> hrm.  right then
[05:36] <Jucato> wb Hobbsee :)
[05:36] <Hobbsee> ty
[05:45] <DaSkreech> Jucato: Maybe
[05:45] <DaSkreech> The way I see it it's what we push
[05:45] <DaSkreech>  and if we are drumming up KDE4 even if unsupported we should have a nice run
[05:46] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: how is life in the brown?
[05:47] <Hobbsee> it's OK
[05:47] <Hobbsee> switched back to XAA, we'll see how much it crashes
[06:25] <nixternal> gotta love them anti-us blog posts..way to go
[06:25] <DaSkreech> whats XAA?
[06:26] <nixternal> what's google? :p
[06:26] <nixternal> all I know it is something about anti-aliasing
[06:26] <DaSkreech> http://www.ase.gr/
[06:27] <nixternal> umm
[06:27] <DaSkreech> ggl xaa
[06:27] <nixternal> haha
[06:27] <nixternal> looks greek to me :)
[06:27] <nixternal> XFree86 Acceleration Architecture
[06:28] <nixternal> so I was wrong about that I thought it was, or thought I knew it was
[06:28] <DaSkreech> :-)
[06:28] <nixternal> I knew I have seen it before, just don't remember where
[06:28] <nixternal> oh well, off to bed I go
[06:28] <nixternal> k'nite
[06:29] <DaSkreech> night
[06:37] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: old version that -intel was using
[06:38] <DaSkreech> ok
[06:38] <DaSkreech> what did it do? Break I assume
[06:41] <yuriy> whoa konqueror4 opens for a link now.. this should be interesting for testing
[07:48] <DarkMageZ> does anyone know where the konqueror devs hang out?
[07:49] <Hobbsee> #kde4-devel should be able to tell you
[07:50] <DarkMageZ> will give there a try
[08:43] <mhb> good morning
[09:03] <mhb> hmm
[09:03] <mhb> it seems to me that the information of Kubuntu KDE4 adoption has not spread too far
[09:17] <buz> on the technological side i agree on not doing a LTS. not sure if its wise politically.
[09:18] <buz> when is kde 3.5 eol?
[09:19] <mhb> buz: well, it's not really actively developed anymore
[09:19] <buz> not sure about that
[09:19] <mhb> so I guess it ends when a distro like Slackware moves to KDE4.
[09:19] <buz> there's a 3.5.9 planned i believe
[09:20] <buz> but if the case can be made, that kde 3.5 won't have hardy+3y of upstream support, then hardy should not be a LTS in any case
[09:20] <mhb> there are several sides to this issue
[09:20] <buz> i know
[09:20] <mhb> a) it will be very hard to produce a KDE4 CD release
[09:20] <buz> but this is one of those that everyone would understand
[09:21] <mhb> because the packages would have to be moved to main, and I am not sure the Ubuntu main administrators will allow both KDE3 and KDE4 to co-exist
[09:21] <buz> at this point in time, they pretty much will have to
[09:21] <mhb> b) it could be influenced by Ubuntu marketing
[09:21] <buz> i dont see much in the line of useable kdepim4 for one
[09:21] <mhb> now the only version that is LTS is Ubuntu
[09:22] <mhb> which may have been their goal as well.
[09:22] <buz> personally i dont mind it
[09:22] <mhb> c) it has been decided outside the Kubuntu community
[09:23] <mhb> we have had talks about this in UDS the developer summit.
[09:23] <mhb> and there, we decided that we are going to push KDE3 and go for a LTS release.
[09:23] <mhb> nobody had any trouble with it
[09:23] <mhb> but now, because of some High Council, we have to drop our efforts
[09:24] <buz> well i dont see how one could do away with kde3 for hardy
[09:24] <buz> too much infrastructure still depends on it
[09:24] <mhb> indeed
[09:24] <mhb> hardy would have to be a mixed KDE4/KDE3 desktop CD
[09:24] <buz> yes
[09:25] <mhb> if we want to make the most of the transition, we would need to be allowed to ship (as in Ship It) those CDs as official ones
[09:25] <mhb> but that would mean we would have to move parts of KDE4 into the main repository
[09:25] <buz> but realistically, it's the enterprise that needs LTS. how many people really use Kubuntu in enterprise situations?
[09:25] <mhb> and again, we would meet resistance from the Ubuntu part
[09:25] <mhb> I am afraid
[09:26] <mhb> buz: no clue. I guess our user base is much bigger than the customer bas.e
[09:27] <buz> yes
[09:27] <buz> but how many of the users truly need lts
[09:27] <buz> seems to me that most kubuntu users will upgrade quickly to get the shiny new stuff anyhow
[09:28] <mhb> the notion from Technical Board is "try to adopt KDE4"... and I hope we'll be allowed to
[09:29] <mhb> we need to go and ask about all possible issues, because I wouldn't be trying to port several apps and then find out that we're not allowed to do this CD
[09:30] <buz> ubuntu is behaving a bit weird
[09:30] <buz> on one side, they dont support kubuntu much
[09:30] <buz> on the other hand, they want to call the shots
[09:30] <buz> s/ubuntu/canonical/
[09:31] <mhb> right, I would like them to say "okay, we won't block you in porting parts of KDE4 into main"
[09:31] <mhb> and making a CD out of it
[09:32] <buz> yeah that would be the only sane way
[09:32] <buz> if its not going to be a LTS release, there's no sane reason why kde4 should not be on the cd (alongside kde3)
[09:35] <mhb> buz: well
[09:35] <mhb> buz: we cannot possibly ship all of KDE4 and KDE3.
[09:35] <mhb> buz: we can ship (hopefully) parts of KDE4 and parts of KDE3 together.
[09:35] <buz> well kdelibs3 will probably have to be in
[09:36] <mhb> some apps don't have to be there, konqueror or dolphin or konsole
[09:36] <mhb> or okular
[09:36] <mhb> all those are good enough (or will soon be) in KDE4
[09:38] <teKnofreak> don't we have a month more to see the final state of KDE4?
[09:39] <teKnofreak> final state as in how is it going to be when released*
[09:39] <mhb> we do, but we need to act fast, we cannot really wait
[09:40] <mhb> I don't know which path we take, but we have to make sure that it can be done
[09:40] <mhb> like do a KDE4/KDE3 hybrid CD asap
[09:40] <teKnofreak> then we have to start preparing those things which seem to be stable with kde4, into kubuntu, leaving behind which we are afraid will not be
[10:04] <buz> the main issue seems to be that plasma still is far from being a workhorse desktop
[11:24] <MaximLevitsky> Oh boy, how broken kmail is in gutsy!
[11:24] <MaximLevitsky> IMAP is unusable
[11:24] <buz> i find it works quite well
[11:24] <buz> compared to older versions
[11:25] <MaximLevitsky> I have a box on google, ans it has lots of mail (1 year of LKML+ others)
[11:26] <MaximLevitsky> And suddenly kmail tells me that all the mail is unread
[11:26] <buz> mhh try deleting the local caches
[11:26] <MaximLevitsky> While it is marked as read
[11:26] <MaximLevitsky> I did
[11:26] <buz> mhh
[11:26] <buz> didnt help?
[11:26] <MaximLevitsky> I even recreated the account in kmail
[11:26] <buz> i occasionally see folders with mails that are unread
[11:26] <MaximLevitsky> Nothing
[11:26] <buz> usually compact folder helps
[11:27] <MaximLevitsky> What is interesting is that sometimes folder show ok, and sometimes not
[11:27] <MaximLevitsky> Some show few unread messages, but wrong ones
[11:28] <MaximLevitsky> Some show that all messages are unread, but few aren't
[11:28] <MaximLevitsky> Complete mess
[11:28] <MaximLevitsky> And it tends to hang too (I admit that gmail is slow, but it hangs a lot more now)
[11:31] <MaximLevitsky> Everything is wrong. For example the All mail shows 6146
[11:31] <MaximLevitsky> Unread mails
[11:57] <tyfon> kmail can get a bit iffy with large volumes of mail :p
[11:58] <tyfon> i recently switched back to mutt again
[11:58] <Tm_T> tyfon: how?
[11:58] <tyfon> well it just seems a bit more buggy.. and if you have any filters you will notice pretty fast that it aint mulithreaded
[11:59] <tyfon> kde4 kmail is supposed to fix a lot of those issues though afaik :)
[11:59] <Tm_T> hmm, interesting
[11:59] <Tm_T> multithreading would help with multicore cpu?
[12:00] <Tm_T> or what you mean
[12:00] <MaximLevitsky> Yep, but it did work well enough in feisty
[12:00] <tyfon> well it would help with responsiveness on any cpu
[12:00] <Tm_T> tyfon: true there
[12:00] <MaximLevitsky> Now it is a nightmare
[12:00] <tyfon> when you are reading mail and it starts downloading mail auto you will get a slight freeze
[12:00] <Riddell> iRon: the user disk mounting patch doesn't seem to work in hardy :)
[12:00] <Riddell> :( rather
[12:00] <Riddell> iRon: it gives me an error "TODO: have to rethink extra options"
[12:00] <Tm_T> tyfon: anyway, with my slowly getting outdated -system I'm ok with Kmail
[12:00] <Riddell> iRon: which seems to come from hal
[12:01] <Tm_T> tyfon: and I have TONS of mail :)
[12:01] <iRon> Riddell: hm.. so i need to install hardy ?
[12:01] <Riddell> iRon: you can use a chroot if you don't want to install it all
[12:01] <iRon> but it would be better if i install it?
[12:02] <MaximLevitsky> Btw I lost hope to fill up the gmail box :-) They increase its size so fast now....
[12:02] <Tm_T> MaximLevitsky: I can fill it with ease
[12:02] <Riddell> iRon: doesn't really matter.  you can try one of the alpha 2 candidate CDs (alternates only currently) if you want
[12:02] <Tm_T> MaximLevitsky: I actually freed some space some time ago :(
[12:02] <tyfon> yeah kmail isnt bad
[12:03] <tyfon> but i can get better ;)
[12:03] <Tm_T> anyway, I was supposed to be away ->
[12:03] <MaximLevitsky> I mean I don't subscribe to mail list just for fun to fill it, I only subscribe to list that I need to read : LKML, and few small lists
[12:06] <iRon> Riddell: i'll install hardy.. also i found a bug in kio_media_mounthelper. it is not parsing correctly locale options.
[12:56]  * Tm_T hug Jucato 
[12:56]  * Jucato hugs Tm_T back :)
[12:59] <sigma_> Riddell: do you know if canonical has closed for christmas (shipit division)?
[12:59] <Riddell> sigma_: seems to have yes
[13:00] <sigma_> thanks, any idea when they are re-opening?
[13:00] <Jucato> hm.. I'm confused... why does https://bugs.launchpad.net/adept only say "Bugs in Adept Updater"?
[13:00] <Riddell> 3rd?  dunno, some countries don't take the 2nd as a holiday
[13:00] <Riddell> Jucato: that's the adept project on launchpad, when someone registered it they did it for the updater
[13:00] <sigma_> dont you work for them?
[13:01] <Jucato> oh... https://bugs.launchpad.net/adeptmgr is a separate one... and there's none for adept installer?
[13:01] <Jucato> Riddell: oh ok...
[13:01] <Riddell> Jucato: it's not the same as the adept package in ubuntu in launchpad
[13:01] <Jucato> ah... LP ignorance strikes me again :D
[13:01] <Riddell> sigma_: sure but I'm in one hemesphere and they're in another and I don't know what holidays their country takes
[13:02] <sigma_> ah yes the joys of a worldwide workforce:)
[13:03] <Jucato> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adept should be the right one?
[13:08] <Riddell> Jucato: yes
[13:09] <Jucato> yay 134 opened bugs then :)
[13:09] <Serega> heya
[13:10] <Serega> I'm finally online
[13:10] <Jucato> hi Serega
[13:10] <Riddell> Serega: awooga!
[13:11] <Serega> Let's continue to rock! ;]
[13:27] <mhb> well...
[13:27] <mhb> we're a bit disoriented now
[13:32] <Serega> I saw
[13:33] <Serega> leave it behind and just enjoy
[13:37] <Jucato> hm... the Version Upgrade bug w/ Adept has been fixed long ago right? (sorry, no Feisty -> Gutsy system...)
[13:42] <mhb> Serega: it's not that easy
[13:42] <mhb> we can either go for a KDE4-enabled desktop (quite a few people oppose this) or do a boring KDE3 system which will not even be LTS.
[13:42] <Serega> mhb: I've read maillist
[13:43] <Serega> mhb: imho moving to KDE4 now qual to suicide for us
[13:43] <Serega> s/qual/is equal
[13:44]  * Jucato wished LP had a Crash status for bugs..
[13:46] <Hobbsee> mhb: either way, it won't be LTS
[13:46] <Hobbsee> er, 11 utc is...
[13:46] <Hobbsee> oh, it 10pm local.  goo
[13:46] <Hobbsee> d
[13:47]  * Serega waves
[13:47] <jpatrick> Serega: we move to KDE4, flood the KDE BTS, and have robust 4.1 ready for hardy+1
[13:48] <Serega> jpatrick: BTS == bugtrackers?
[13:49] <jpatrick> yeah
[13:49] <jpatrick> at least, that's how I think we should do it
[13:50] <Serega> but I suppose we will get hardy unusable in this way :-\
[13:50] <Serega> on the other side  this is our difference from debian-stable...
[13:52]  * Serega will afk for 5 minutes
[14:00] <mhb> Serega: we'll have a KDE3 CD for sure
[14:00] <mhb> basically there's nothing needing our attention in KDE3.
[14:01] <mhb> we'll switch the wallpaper, fix some bugs, and we're good to go
[14:03] <Jucato> mhb: question: were you the one who tried to implement the Adept feature that will run sudo dpkg --configure -a automatically when an error occurs?
[14:04]  * Jucato can't remember who's who...
[14:04] <mhb> Jucato: manchicken
[14:04] <Jucato> oh
[14:04] <Jucato> right... sorry :)
[14:04] <mhb> Jucato: I wanted to, but manchicken beat me to it
[14:04] <mhb> that's what got you confused
[14:04]  * Jucato wonders how he can try to recreate an error to cause the feature to activate...
[14:05] <mhb> apt-get upgrade -- and in the middle, do a CTRL+C
[14:05] <mhb> well in the middle of the upgrading, not package downloading
[14:06] <Jucato> then try to run Adept Manager right?
[14:06] <mhb> yup
[14:07] <Jucato> hm... ok... just trying to recreate bug 139156 and see if it has been addressed (iirc it has, but need to confirm)
[14:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 139156 in adept "Automatic Security Update Failure" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139156
[14:07] <Jucato> basically it's when Adept reports some packages might be broken etc etc
[14:10] <jpatrick> adept just crashes here doing that
[14:10] <Riddell> ** new Kubuntu images to test https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/qatracker/build/Kubuntu
[14:11] <mhb> KDE3?
[14:11] <Riddell> yes
[14:15] <Jucato> jpatrick: hm.. it seems that the fix to fix the crash/locked database crashes adept :)
[14:16] <Jucato> but then again, after that crash, adept runs fine... nice :)
[14:17] <santiago-ve> Hello
[14:17] <seele> can there once be an article about women in open source without reference to the flosspols report?
[14:18]  * Jucato haves wello to seele
[14:18] <Jucato> er.. I meant "waves hello"
[14:18] <Hobbsee> seele: yes.
[14:18] <Nightrose> seele: I think to achieve that you need to do a new survey/report/... for them to cite :( - they need something to back up their claims
[14:18] <Hobbsee> seele: however, they tend to be quite useless, and poor.
[14:19] <Hobbsee> like, blog-rant, rather than a proper article
[14:20] <Jucato> a.k.a. blont :)
[14:36] <mhb> attention council members!
[14:37] <mhb> please read the /topic or check your mailbox soon!
[14:38]  * Jucato calculates....
[14:38] <Jucato> hm.. I guess I can be there...
[14:38] <Jucato> oh wait, council members.. right :)
[14:38] <mhb> Jucato: people like you and me are replacable :o)
[14:38] <mhb> :o)
[14:38] <Jucato> weee! clown smile! :D
[14:39] <mhb> Jucato: but if you got the official invitation, it would be impolite to decline :o)
[14:39] <Jucato> hehe :)
[14:39] <Jucato> I could decline and say that real life infringes again :)
[14:39] <Jucato> (which I do expect for the next few days...)
[14:40] <mhb> Jucato: you do that and I'll copyright infringe you to the roof
[14:40] <Jucato> lol :)
[14:40]  * Jucato gets back to adept bug triaging :P
[14:41] <seele> ouch, 6AM.. 3AM for Californians
[14:42] <Jucato> do we have Californians? :)
[14:56] <Hobbsee> heh
[14:56]  * Hobbsee will be there
[14:56] <Hobbsee> short of going mad due to work, of course
[15:00] <Riddell> seele: we're swapping times between 11:00 and 23:00 UTC, which means people should be able to come to half the meetings
[15:03] <seele> ok
[15:10] <Riddell> hrm, k3b seems broken
[15:11] <Riddell> for burning dvd  isos
[15:16] <mayeco> i'm reading the news
[15:17] <mayeco> kubuntu 8.04 will not be LTS
[15:17] <jpatrick> yep
[15:17] <Hobbsee> correct
[15:17] <Hobbsee> Riddell: the no-LTS for kubuntu decision is final, is it not?
[15:17] <Hobbsee> Riddell: i got that impression when speaking to keybuk
[15:18] <Riddell> he'll know better than I
[15:19] <Jucato> as my professor once said, "final, irrevocable, and infallible" :)
[15:19]  * Hobbsee nods
[15:19] <mayeco> and... what Canonical said about that?
[15:20] <mayeco> Riddell ?
[15:22] <mhb> mayeco: not sure what you mean, Canonical *decided* it
[15:22] <Jucato> hm... another -1 for Adept Installer...
[15:22] <mayeco> ahhh mhb!
[15:22] <mayeco> canonical make that desition?
[15:24] <Hobbsee> "well, duh"
[15:25] <Hobbsee> mayeco: yes, seeing as they're offering the support.
[15:25] <mayeco> mmmmm .... :D
[15:26] <mayeco> mmm but...
[15:27] <mayeco> we will get our LTS latter or until next LTS cicle?
[15:27] <Hobbsee> presumably
[15:28] <mhb> no-one knows
[15:28] <mhb> Hobbsee: or did keybuk said something about it?
[15:38] <Riddell> 15:30 < kushal> where I can find some usability help   seele: in #kde-devel if you are feeling you're not busy enough
[15:40] <Hobbsee> mhb: not explicitly
[15:44] <nixternal> mornin'
[15:46] <Jucato> lol! nixternal's greeting caused Hobbsee to leave :)
[15:48] <bddebian> Heya
[15:49] <Jucato> hi bddebian
[15:51] <bddebian> Hi Jucato
[16:26] <nixternal> I have just published a blog post that should put everyone at ease
[16:31] <Nightrose> *lol* nixternal - nifty
[16:32]  * Jucato waits for the feed to hit him on the head.. hard...
[16:35] <nixternal> Nightrose: last year at an open source event here in chicago, we had a battle of the distros, and that is what Ubuntu Chicago did to show we didn't suck as much as the other distros :)
[16:35] <Nightrose> nixternal: hehe I will remember this for my next talks *g*
[16:35] <nixternal> it is fun, and always get a good laugh
[16:36] <Nightrose> yea
[16:36] <nixternal> I will throw up a slide with numbers and people will be impressed, then I will show them how I had achieved the results and they fall out
[16:36] <Nightrose> ;-)
[16:49] <nixternal> sebas: are there still plans for a KDE 3.5.9 release in the future?
[17:21] <Nightrose> nixternal: can you get the Amarok 1.4.8 release in the next quickies for the dot?
[17:21] <Nightrose> make it a christmas present ;-)
[17:22] <nixternal> depends on the money of course, what do think this is, a free software community? :p
[17:22] <Nightrose> :P
[17:22] <Nightrose> I thought so ye
[17:22] <nixternal> hehe
[17:22] <Nightrose> wrong impression i got here?
[17:22] <Nightrose> ;-)
[17:23] <nixternal> I am looking at Linux screenshots, and none are really all that attractive
[17:23] <nixternal> what distro has a really stunning default desktop?
[17:23] <nixternal> there is a distro called Vixta that is based off of Fedora, and it looks oddly like Vista :)
[17:24] <Nightrose> well a lot of people say fedora has one of the best artwork teams - but IMHO it is not "stunning"
[17:28] <nixternal> wolfger: dude, your blog rocks...there is some good writing right there
[17:30] <jjesse> hello nixternal
[17:32] <nosrednaekim> hmmm I won't be able to make the meeting, too early
[17:32] <jjesse> me too
[17:33] <nosrednaekim> well, i'll be there at 1200UTC
[17:33] <jjesse> its 6am in the morning
[17:33] <jjesse> for me
[17:33] <Riddell> it's the US unfriendly time this week
[17:34] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: do we only have the channel for an hour?
[17:34] <Riddell> as long as we need, but I doubt I can stay around much longer
[17:34] <nosrednaekim> ok
[17:34] <nixternal> wasabi jjesse
[17:35] <nixternal> 05:00 for me, but I will try to make it
[17:35] <nixternal> I will set my alarm for 04:45 and make sure the coffee pot is on automake
[17:35] <nixternal> wonder if I could update that to cmake
[17:35] <jjesse> nada mucho nixternal
[17:35]  * Jucato checks what time it is...
[17:36] <jjesse> Jucato: do you have that adept guide patch you sent me?
[17:36] <Jucato> hm... hold on... gotta rummage through my stuff :)
[17:36] <nixternal> my neighbor is one of the starbucks big whigs, and he gave me 5 pounds of christmas blend beans yesterday, so I have the caffeine covered
[17:36] <Jucato> jjesse: yeah, still here. the .diff
[17:36] <jjesse> can you send it?  jjesse@ubuntu.com
[17:37] <Jucato> resent :)
[17:37] <jjesse> thanks
[17:38] <Jucato> it's not that big... just corrected some tags (I think)
[17:39] <nixternal> so, who is helping with documentation this go round?
[17:39] <jjesse> yeah you did, but i lost it when i reloaded my laptop
[17:39] <jjesse> besides me?
[17:40] <nixternal> ya besides you goofy
[17:40]  * jjesse needs to start woring on update of book
[17:40] <jjesse> again
[17:40] <nixternal> I think you and I are the only KDE core doc people
[17:40] <jjesse> yeah i thinbk so
[17:40] <Jucato> :)
[17:40] <jpatrick> nixternal: if you can tell me a quick way to bzr branch it, I could help
[17:40] <nixternal> robotgeek hasn't been around in a while
[17:40] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: I'll help a little... i'm no good with Latex or such though
[17:41] <nixternal> jpatrick: if you look on the bzr page, it tells you how to do that :)
[17:41] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: no latex for our docs, just docbook/xml..if you can do html tags you can do docbook/xml
[17:41] <Jucato> Riddell: have you seen bug 162551? I haven't checked where the "Version Upgrade" text is taken from (tried kubuntu_upgrader in the adept sources, not there)
[17:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 162551 in adept "Adept Updater - Impossible Instructions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162551
[17:41] <jpatrick> nixternal: I sat waiting for an hour and bzr hadn't got to 30%
[17:41] <nixternal> jpatrick: ya, you have a long wait with bzr
[17:41] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: I may look into it if I have time. kinda depends on how much school I have after febuary
[17:41] <jpatrick> see? with svn it takes minutes
[17:42] <nixternal> yup
[17:42] <nixternal> but bzr is the way of this neighborhood
[17:43] <nixternal> how do you think I feel...I maintain stuff in a CVS repo, SVN repo, BZR repo, and now a HG/Mercurial repo
[17:43] <Jucato> yay! managed to reduce Adept's 60 New (untriaged?) bugs to 29... and produced 26 Incomplete (needs info) bugs instead :D
[17:43] <nixternal> cvs, svn, and bzr are similar in their workings, mercurial is a tad bit different
[17:43] <jjesse> wahoo
[17:43] <nixternal> but mercurial, speed wise, is whicked faster than the rest
[17:43] <Jucato> 29 to go!
[17:43] <nixternal> jucato->hugs();
[17:43] <Jucato> :D
[17:44] <Jucato> my Christmas gift to Kubuntu :P
[17:44] <nixternal> I have spruced up my hug alias to make it more geeky
[17:44] <Jucato> lol
[17:44] <Jucato> hm... next week or tomorrow, I will ask... how do you patch a patch? :D
[17:44] <nixternal> I should make all users a doubly linked list, then I could do  jucato->prev->next->hugs();
[17:45]  * jpatrick tries with bzr checkout
[17:45] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: you said you had a huge TODO list for kubuntu devs?
[17:45] <Jucato> or you could just use containers, iterators, and polymorphism :)
[17:45] <nixternal> I have one?
[17:45] <nosrednaekim> is that getting published tomorrow?
[17:46] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: thought you said you had one... maybe it was someone else<_<
[17:46] <nixternal> TODO: all devs: FIX ALL KDE 3 BUGS - PACKAGE UP KDE 4 - CONVERT KDE/QT 3 APPS TO KDE/QT4
[17:46] <nosrednaekim> XD
[17:46] <nixternal> jucato.setHugs(-1);
[17:46] <nixternal> :p
[17:46] <Jucato> hahah :D
[17:46] <nixternal> I took it back because you wanted to create more work :)
[17:47] <jpatrick> Katapult has a problem with cmake, compiles and then refuses to run
[17:47] <nixternal> jucato.getHugs();
[17:47] <Jucato> katapult's still alive? O.o
[17:47]  * Jucato hides from jpatrick
[17:47] <jpatrick> kinda
[17:47] <nixternal> hey, katapult is by far my favorite app still
[17:47] <Jucato> :D
[17:47] <Jucato> it was... kinda grew less fond of it... krunner is gonna be a tough competition to beat soon...
[17:48] <Jucato> and Gnome Do... :/
[17:48] <nixternal> gnome didn't
[17:48] <Jucato> lol :D
[17:48] <nixternal> they copied katapult but added some drop down thing right?
[17:48] <yuriy> oh Jucato you're already working on adept stuff?
[17:49] <Jucato> yuriy: adept bugs mostly... I left 29 still New bugs for you :)
[17:49] <Jucato> I mostly changed some bugs to Incomplete... and gonna wait for replies
[17:49] <yuriy> well i'll help you out when i get to work in a half hour if there's nothing to do there
[17:49] <Jucato> and I have one patch in my brain for adept installer... pending learning how to patch a patch :)
[17:50] <nixternal> you know, I like adept updater
[17:50] <nixternal> it makes following updates much easier than the command line
[17:50] <nixternal> much easier to prevent an update as well
[17:51] <Jucato> one thing I find funny about adept (as a whole) is the progress indicators when you fetch updates
[17:51] <Jucato> the bottom progress bar doesn't seem to really be displaying the overall progress...
[17:51] <nixternal> well, what I find annoying is all of the bouncing around adept does..and I mean graphically bouncing, resizing
[17:51] <Jucato> :)
[17:51] <nixternal> it isn't appealing to the eye
[17:52] <Jucato> (my main beef is actually w/ adept installer... but...)
[17:52] <nixternal> I click the icon, enter password, and minimize it so I don't have to watch it
[17:52] <Jucato> hehe
[17:52] <nixternal> I don't even think I have taken a look at the adept code...is is scary?
[17:52] <Jucato> for me it is.. it's huge :)
[17:53] <Jucato> and mixed... some STL stuff in there I think...
[17:53]  * Jucato also so C++ exceptions at work.
[17:53] <nixternal> ahh, STL stuff is easy
[17:53] <nixternal> I can do STL
[17:53] <Jucato> :)
[17:54] <Jucato> anyway I only try to peek at the relevant parts... not at the whole :)
[17:54] <nixternal> I will have to check it out
[17:54] <Jucato> so... how do I modify a previous patch? patch a patch? create a .diff that patches the patch? :)
[17:54] <nixternal> I have been trying to figure out how to do a merge with debian's kde4 packages...they added the ld stuff, but they changed around cdbs quite a bit, so I need to figure what to keep and what not to keep
[17:55] <nixternal> what I do is I create a tmp directory, copy the directory to patch, run the current patch, then edit the file, and then create a new patch...I don't use cdbs patching and what not
[17:55] <nixternal> I am old school I guess, but I am more comfortable that way
[17:55] <Jucato> I've never tried cdbs :)
[17:56] <nixternal> cdbs makes packaging in debian much easier I think
[17:56] <nixternal> but I haven't played around with the patching and what not
[17:56] <Jucato> but you know me... almost 2 years into Kubuntu and I still haven't gotten down packaging :P
[17:56] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: I've been using Linux for 6 years and haven't compiled a kernel yet.... soo
[17:57] <Jucato> what's that?
[17:57] <Jucato> :D
[17:57] <nosrednaekim> lol
[17:58] <Jucato> yuriy: I have to leave the 29 untouched bugs to you... at 02:00, I'm not confident about my comprehension skills :)
[17:58] <nosrednaekim> yay for Jucato!
[17:59] <Jucato> nixternal: I just need to give my patch a higher number than the patch I'm trying to modify right? to make sure the older patch gets applied first?
[18:01] <Jucato> anyway... bed :)
[18:01] <nixternal> sounds about right to me
[18:04] <jpatrick> nixternal: aha! with checkout --lightweight it's a lot faster
[18:05]  * Jucato wonders how many pages it would take to print out Adept's code... just for fun...
[18:06] <jpatrick> hmm, it's even done
[18:06]  * Jucato ->setStatuse( BED );
[18:06]  * Jucato can't spell either...
[18:14] <jjesse> anyone else w/ kde4 have problems where everything freezes?
[18:14] <nosrednaekim> jjesse: nope
[18:16] <fdoving> jjesse: i had various problems with the packages, all sorted out when i compiled everything from svn.
[18:19] <fdoving> Jucato: for the record, it's usually nicer to modify the existing patch, instead of patching the patches and then patch the patched patches over and over.. it'll become a big mess in the long run.
[18:20] <fdoving> unless you use quilt.
[19:09] <yuriy> why isn't adept on https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs ?
[19:16] <jpatrick> yuriy: can you see if bug 118321 still affects you?
[19:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118321 in kdmtheme "Kubuntu System Settings missing admin button for KDM Theme Manager" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118321
[19:17] <nixternal> I have the "Administrator Mode" button
[19:18] <jpatrick> nixternal: oh, I've sent patches to ubuntu-doc :)
[19:19] <nixternal> roger
[19:20] <nixternal> kdelibs5 is kicking my arse
[19:21] <yuriy> jpatrick: i have the button but it doesn't seem to work
[19:22] <yuriy> though this may have something to do with the kdm bug i'm getting since installing kde4 rc2
[19:22] <jpatrick> funny, I get overrides files found thing
[19:23] <jpatrick> so I can close the bug? (now that the button appears)
[19:23] <yuriy> jpatrick: well, does the button work for you?
[19:23] <jpatrick> yep
[19:23] <yuriy> i guess you can close it
[19:24] <jjesse> so are the packages available from kubuntu buggier then what is in kde svn for kde4?
[19:25] <fdoving> jjesse: yes. svn is updated all the time. new fixes every min.
[19:32] <jjesse> hrmm ok will have to take a look into that
[20:01] <orion> Hello all! :)
[20:02] <orion> So, what is the bestway of testing kde4 on hardy?
[20:02] <orion> using kde svn, or hardy packages?
[20:02] <jpatrick> orion: installing it and running :)
[20:03] <orion> i installed alpha 1 for a test
[20:03] <orion> i have also compiled kde4 on gusty
[20:04] <orion> from svn
[20:04] <orion> It takes a looooot of time to compile!! :P
[20:14] <orion> I'm asking this, because I think that using hardy packages,
[20:15] <orion> I will be probably catching bugs already solved in kde4 svn!
[20:15] <nosrednaekim> mhb: since when is "developer" a gender?
[20:17] <nixternal> dunno about a gender, but it sure as hell is a special type of breed :)
[20:17] <nosrednaekim> heh
[20:17] <jpatrick> orion: using svn is kinda better because you can report things to the kde devs on the lastest revisions
[20:19]  * txwikinger wonders if nixternal's statement means something good or bad ;)
[20:19] <nixternal> probably a bit of both :)
[20:20] <txwikinger> nixternal: I spent the whole day in court... I saw a lot of 'special' breeds on all sides ;)
[20:20] <nixternal> jury duty?
[20:21] <nixternal> go kdelibs5 go!
[20:21] <txwikinger> nixternal: No .. I am applying to be a magistrate
[20:21] <nixternal> oh, that's right...a lawyer
[20:21] <txwikinger> or Justice of Peace
[20:22] <txwikinger> more a judge :D
[20:22] <nixternal> just remember, not everyone is bad, some are just misguided
[20:22] <nixternal> that statement right there, gets you out of jury duty every time :)
[20:22] <buz> i think tghe
[20:22] <buz> insa
[20:22] <txwikinger> well.. nobody got sent to prison today..
[20:22] <buz> crap
[20:22] <buz> i think the installer has a very weird bug
[20:22] <buz> +
[20:23] <txwikinger> just two people refered to Crowns Court
[20:23] <buz> if the bios has a floppy active that doesnt exist, installer hangs
[20:23] <nixternal> buz: are you using hardy?
[20:23] <nixternal> I remember seeing that issue a long long time ago
[20:23] <nixternal> in a galaxy not to far away :)
[20:24] <buz> both hardy alternate and gutsy live suffer of it
[20:24] <buz> maybe its a linux bug
[20:24] <nixternal> ya, I seen it in alternate at point a long time ago
[20:24] <buz> it happens shortly after probing for disks
[20:24] <nixternal> I tend to shy away, when installing, from the LiveCDs
[20:25] <nixternal> maybe the reason I don't see them anymore is because I disabled floppy support in the bios
[20:25] <buz> yeah i dont really like them
[20:25] <buz> nixternal: i did that now
[20:25] <orion> jpatrick: Thanx! Maybe I'll try a mixed approach: just a few selected apps from svn along with hardy main
[20:25] <buz> but i have never ever seen it so far
[20:25] <nixternal> interesting
[20:25] <buz> maybe most bios outthere are on auto
[20:25] <buz> but this via mini itx had it on 1,44mb
[20:25] <buz> took me the better part of 2 hours to track down
[20:27] <buz> and boy those via cpus really are dirt slow
[20:27] <nosrednaekim> buz: the c7's?
[20:27] <buz> this is a c3 even
[20:27] <nosrednaekim> oh... yeah c3's are slow
[20:27] <buz> c7 aint exactly fast either
[20:28] <nosrednaekim> eh... they work just fune
[20:28] <nosrednaekim> *fine
[20:28] <nosrednaekim> power usage rocks too
[20:28] <nosrednaekim> try to beat 22 watts with any other desktop
[20:29] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: well you can compile stuff faster on a mobile phone.
[20:29] <nosrednaekim> lol
[20:29] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: c7 gotta be the worst cpu I ever owned
[20:29] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: gave it away to the kde marketing team :D
[20:29] <nosrednaekim> its not for a developer, thats for sure... and it would die under vista
[20:30] <_StefanS_> yep..
[20:30] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: I would recommend anyone buying a core (2) duo T5xxx instead
[20:30] <_StefanS_> much more value
[20:31] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: enough complaining from me. D:
[20:31] <buz> _StefanS_: for my uses the c3 is good enough
[20:31] <buz> i want it for a fileserver, where lowpower is king
[20:31] <_StefanS_> buz: hopefully IO isn't king for you either.. good luck with the 70% cpu while copying files.
[20:32] <buz> even a c3 can do 100mbit
[20:33] <_StefanS_> well guess its a matter of preference,( and money)
[20:34] <_StefanS_> anyone had luck with todays livecd ?
[20:34] <buz> mostly its a matter of noise for me :P
[20:35] <_StefanS_> buz: oh well, if you're sleeping next to it, I guess it matters alot :)
[20:35] <buz> no working next to it
[20:35] <buz> and the box uses about 50W with 2 HDs
[20:35] <buz> thats pretty good
[20:35] <_StefanS_> yep
[20:35] <buz> boy i'm trying to use the live cd installer
[20:35] <buz> THAT's slow
[20:36] <_StefanS_> buz: do you get x up ?
[20:36] <buz> yes no issue at all
[20:36] <_StefanS_> buz: I just get a blinking cursor after usplash
[20:36] <buz> (this is a epia m6000 which is ooooold)
[20:36] <_StefanS_> wierd..
[20:36] <_StefanS_> maybe i should install native instead of vmware
[20:36] <buz> i think it may be running in vesa though
[20:37] <_StefanS_> ah well, didn't try that
[20:37] <buz> well live cd does that
[20:37] <_StefanS_> nah not default AFAIK.. it tries to autodetect video driver
[20:38] <buz> oh yeah on some machines it tries
[20:38] <buz> and fails
[20:38] <_StefanS_> yep.. I will just try again
[20:39] <yuriy> what is this autopkgtest thing? bug 152043
[20:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152043 in adept "autopkgtest gutsy adept: erroneous package!" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152043
[20:39] <_StefanS_> buz: at 2mb/s it doesn't take long to grab the cd again..
[20:39] <buz> i do find it a wee bit weird that gutsy enumerates my drive on a sata controller as hdg though
[20:39] <buz> _StefanS_: i should upgrade my pipe to 20mbit too :P
[20:39] <_StefanS_> sure hopes vesa does it
[20:40] <_StefanS_> buz: you should. Worth it..
[20:40] <buz> does work for me
[20:40] <buz> well
[20:40] <buz> the improvement from 5 to 20mbit is benign
[20:40] <buz> at least until we get hdtv over ip
[20:40] <nosrednaekim> benign is not the word ;) benign means "harmless"
[20:40] <buz> i know
[20:41] <_StefanS_> buz: then 20mbits wont be enough I guess
[20:41]  * nosrednaekim hides
[20:41] <buz> you can run 720p h.264 with 10mbit easily
[20:41] <buz> of course you really want a core2 to decode that :P
[20:42] <_StefanS_> buz: yep.. but you would need some real good QoS to prevent the TV going bonkers when downloading some stuff on the pc :)
[20:42] <buz> openwrt does that pretty well
[20:42] <_StefanS_> buz: I have a core 2 at the tv, I tried osx today.. but I dont think 720p really was possible. It might be the videodriver though
[20:42] <_StefanS_> buz: tomato is what you want ;)
[20:43] <buz> i can even watch 1080p with my t7300
[20:43] <buz> without maxing out the cpu
[20:43] <buz> and i'm not sure just how much works is being offloaded to the intel GMA x3100
[20:44] <_StefanS_> buz: hmm I wonder if a 1.83 core 2 (2mb l2cache) and a 2.0 t7200 (4mb l2cache) makes any difference
[20:44] <buz> should not do much difference
[20:44] <buz> mine was running at something like 1.2ghz during test
[20:44] <_StefanS_> buz: ah x3100 might be slighty better than the 945gm i have in both those machines
[20:44] <_StefanS_> ah the download is done
[20:44] <_StefanS_> trying that vesa thingy now
[20:44] <buz> lemme grab a 1080p sample for testing
[20:44] <buz> (if i can find one)
[20:45] <_StefanS_> search google for divx movie trailers
[20:45] <_StefanS_> there's a french page
[20:46] <buz> http://www.dvdloc8.com/clip.php?movieid=9153&clipid=3
[20:46] <buz> i'm trying that
[20:46] <_StefanS_> ah yep
[20:46] <_StefanS_> nice one
[20:48] <nixternal> Riddell: I am finishing up the kdelibs5 updates, will make sure everything is square first..would you like me to upload debian/ so you can take a look?
[20:48] <nixternal> all changes were to cdbs/kde.mk and removal of cdbs/utils.mk, plus adding cheguevara_'s patch
[20:49] <Riddell> nixternal: debdiff would be good
[20:49] <Riddell> nixternal: and stdin's patch?
[20:50] <nixternal> stdin didn't have a libs patch
[20:57] <_StefanS_> buz: nah same problem in safe graphics mode :(
[20:57] <_StefanS_> buz: no x..
[20:57] <buz> i did not even use safegraphics
[20:58] <_StefanS_> buz: hmm just a blank screen..
[21:04] <buz> _StefanS_: mplayer eats about 90% of one 1600mhz cpu core here
[21:05] <buz> its entirely fluid though
[21:06] <buz> uoh
[21:06] <buz> i'm in deep shit
[21:07] <buz> iw as supposed to bake my gf's cookies
[21:07] <buz> looks like they turned into charcoal
[21:10] <yuriy> heh bug 115518 has always bothered me but i just figured i was missing something -- am i?
[21:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 115518 in adept "adept_manager search improvement should enable AND/OR keyword search" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/115518
[21:13] <txwikinger> hmm.. knetworkmanager doesn't seem to be able to cope with a wireless and a wired one at the same time
[21:31] <Riddell> nixternal: ok
[21:48] <iRon> Riddell: new HAL from Hardy is more strict.. and it does not pass any more mount parameters which kio_media_mounthelper sends to it.. so it is a mounthelper bug.
[21:52] <iRon> Riddell: and it looks like there is no need in kdesu/kdesudo.. because HAL now properly works with policykit.
[21:52] <wolfger> nixternal: thanks!
[21:56] <nosrednaekim> yuriy: yay! download lists :D
[22:05] <yuriy> nosrednaekim: well i just confirmed the bug that they should be there... somebody needs to actually do it
[22:06] <nosrednaekim> oh.... I have some python code to do it.... but it uses apt-get
[22:09] <yuriy> nosrednaekim: I think the thing to do is to see what synaptic does
[22:09] <yuriy> hmm i wonder if bug 177819 is a debconf or java bug
[22:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177819 in adept "java license agreement not self-evident enough" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177819
[22:10] <yuriy> also, is there a separate source package for the dist-upgrader?
[22:14] <nixternal> w00t...lookin' like kdelibs5 built this time
[22:21] <Riddell> iRon: so should be fixable?
[22:22] <iRon> Riddell: sure.. it works without modifications for ext2/ext3 partitions.. for ntfs i just need to remove unnecessary uid parameter and provide proper locale parameter.
[22:24] <iRon> Riddell: it fails for you on ntfs partition, right?
[22:25] <nixternal> Riddell: should the manpages be installed with the kdelibs5 package?
[22:26] <nixternal> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49219/  <- those are the files with --list-missing
[22:46] <plavcik> hi, which channel is best to discuss problem with UTF-8 file names accessed via fish (konqueror)?
[22:52] <txwikinger> well that was odd...
[22:52] <Riddell> nixternal: could be
[22:52] <Riddell> plavcik: #kde-devel
[22:52] <txwikinger> apparently installing one of those wireless tools corrupts all network configurations on gutsy
[22:52] <plavcik> thx
[22:52] <Riddell> iRon: yes, on ntfs
[22:52] <nixternal> ya, I am checking over the old package to see if they were installed
[23:14] <nixternal> there is something in the new kde.mk that is stopping the install of the man pages
[23:33] <mhb> good evening my good friends
[23:35] <mhb> nixternal: how come your blog is not on planet kde?
[23:35] <mhb> it definitely should be there
[23:35] <nixternal> mhb: nobody likes me I guess
[23:35] <mhb> what's more, it should have been there when you blogged about KDE4
[23:35] <mhb> such info would please the world, but it seems the world doesn't know about it yet
[23:35] <mhb> someone call Roland Wolters or something :o)
[23:35]  * Jucato scratches his eyes....good morning
[23:35] <nixternal> mornin'
[23:36] <mhb> nixternal: so they can't add you just because you're a nice guy, you write about KDE and you help KDE (news, documentation and more)?
[23:36] <Jucato> there's no "they" actually. he just needs to email clee, and that's it :)
[23:36] <nixternal> I don't even know who is in charge, or even who to ask..never persued it I guess
[23:37] <Jucato> (now you do...)
[23:37] <Nightrose> nixternal: yea you should definitely ask clee to add you blog
[23:37] <Nightrose> nixternal: clee is the one
[23:37] <nixternal> alrighty, maybe I will give clee a hollah
[23:37] <Nightrose> ;-)
[23:39] <Jucato> yay! from 29 to 16 New Adept bugs. thanks yuriy and whoever triaged while I was asleep :D
[23:43] <mhb> quick, someone start discussing something!
[23:44]  * mhb feels a lonely mood coming
[23:44] <Jucato> you rock! (good enough?)
[23:45] <nixternal> ok, clee emailed
[23:46] <mhb> Jucato: it would have if you were a girl lying in my bed convincing me to go cuddle with her.
[23:46] <Jucato> lol
[23:47] <mhb> sadly, there's only a macbook and scissors on my bed
[23:47] <nixternal> Riddell: I will create a debdiff for you to apply...see if you can figure out what is causing the man pages to not install...
[23:47] <Jucato> I suggest putting the scissors somewhere inaccessible :/
[23:48] <mhb> Jucato: hehe :o) I knew that - I was just creating my dodecahedron calendar.
[23:49] <Jucato> lol
[23:49] <cheguevara__> evening
[23:50] <nixternal> mhb: hahahahhaha, I get in those "lonely" moods every now and then, but I typically have a pit bull and my laptop next to me :)
[23:50] <Jucato> you're lucky :(
[23:51] <Jucato> I have just my grandma to cuddle :)
[23:51] <mhb> well it is my fault, I shouldn't have read so much romantic webcomics.
[23:51] <mhb> :o)
[23:52] <mhb> anyway, what do you suggest as the best solution for the situation?
[23:52] <mhb> I'd suggest creating a "Solid" CD with KDE3 and KubuntuHardyCatchup for the businesses and the official "Hardy" CD which would be a KDE4-KDE3 hybrid.
[23:53] <mhb> because Shipit usually reaches the common users, business installation folks could easily burn the image.
[23:53] <nixternal> that sounds plausable actually
[23:53] <mhb> marketing them both on kubuntu.org side by side
[23:53] <Jucato> or a Hardy Heron KDE3 and a Hungry Hippo KDE4 :)
[23:54] <Jucato> now's a chance to have some fun :)
[23:54] <nixternal> hahahaha
[23:54] <mhb> think about other possible suggestions for today's meeting
[23:54] <Jucato> that'll be my only suggestion about your suggestion :)
[23:55] <mhb> Jucato: also, could you perhaps blog about the Kubuntu KDE4 transition tomorrow, once we settle the discussion down?
[23:55] <mhb> so that people reading planetKDE get it
[23:56] <Jucato> sure. hopefully I'll be around in the meeting :/
[23:56] <mhb> jr does not want to do it and I understand that, but I guess we should tell the KDE folks, they'll be happy
[23:57] <yuriy> heh morning Jucato
[23:57] <mhb> Jucato: thank you
[23:57] <nixternal> Riddell: http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/kde4libs.debdiff