[00:01] <cheguevara__> ooh libgif :P
[00:01] <Nightrose> mhb: don´t expect clee to be fast - it might take him some time to add blogs
[00:03] <mhb> as always, the human failure
[00:03] <Nightrose> ;-)
[00:03] <mhb> KDE is relying on people too much
[00:03] <Nightrose> well he is doing good work i think...
[00:03] <mhb> well no doubt it
[00:04] <Nightrose> I asked him on irc and he added me instantly
[00:04] <mhb> the script that does planet ubuntu is also doing good work
[00:04] <Nightrose> but other people had to wait weeks
[00:04] <Nightrose> just warning you so you don´t get your expectations up to high just yet
[00:05] <mhb> the lifeguard left us! ooh my
[00:05] <mhb> plavcik = lifeguard in czech
[00:05] <Nightrose> hehe
[00:05] <mhb> Nightrose: which is why I'm saying it's a human failure
[00:06] <mhb> Nightrose: you see, the script that does it on planet ubuntu treats everyone the same and does it instantly
[00:06] <Nightrose> true
[00:06] <Nightrose> but kde´s community works differently
[00:06] <mhb> clee's time should be spent better
[00:06] <Nightrose> and I don´t think different is worse here
[00:06] <mhb> I do think it means "inefficient"
[00:06] <Nightrose> in general
[00:06] <Nightrose> hehe well..
[00:07] <mhb> humans are always less efficient than machines
[00:07] <mhb> everything that could be done by a machine should be done by a machine
[00:07] <mhb> that is why I do not take part in packaging too much :o)
[00:07] <mhb> machines should do it, not people
[00:07] <Nightrose> otoh a little control over who gets on the planet is not wrong i think
[00:08] <mhb> Nightrose: right, everyone that is a member can be there, and everyone who is a member is a checked fellow
[00:08] <mhb> at least that's our policy
[00:08] <mhb> one approval, and you can do it all.
[00:08] <Nightrose> yea and kde does not have that in this way
[00:08] <Jucato> mhb: KDE doesn't have a sort of membership process that will make the process of adding our blogs to planetkde similar to planet ubuntu
[00:08] <Nightrose> you can become a member of kde eV
[00:08] <Jucato> bah she types faster :)
[00:08] <Nightrose> but that is different
[00:08] <Nightrose> ;-)
[00:09] <mhb> oh, that secret club I sometimes have a grudge against :o)
[00:09] <Nightrose> hehe
[00:09] <mhb> I respect it though
[00:09]  * Nightrose ponders becoming a member next year
[00:09]  * Jucato ponders becoming a member in 2011...
[00:09] <Nightrose> hehe
[00:09] <mhb> I know they do not, but if they did, it would be easier for them to do stuff
[00:09] <Nightrose> don´t think that would be a good thing for kde
[00:10] <mhb> it is very easy for me to create a branch all Kubuntu members can work with
[00:10] <Nightrose> it just works differently
[00:10] <Jucato> maybe, maybe not... you can't apply the same community dynamics from one community to another and expect it to work similarly well
[00:10] <mhb> but no outsiders (without sending me mails, of course)
[00:10] <Nightrose> Jucato: ack
[00:10] <mhb> hmm
[00:10] <mhb> I do have a mathematics background, so expect me to do this very often.
[00:10] <Nightrose> hehe
[00:11] <Nightrose> so do I
[00:11] <Nightrose> but I tend to see the human side of it all
[00:11] <Jucato> I have a philosophical background, so expect me to counter often :)
[00:11] <Nightrose> *g*
[00:11] <mhb> ah humans, the inefficient machines
[00:11] <Jucato> ah human, the *non*-machines :)
[00:12] <mhb> anyway, I think an a place which has the database of "trusted" KDE folks makes sense
[00:12] <mhb> such people would have commit access, blog availability, techbase account and so on
[00:12] <yuriy> lmao @ Serega and mammoth sh*t
[00:12] <Jucato> er...
[00:13] <mhb> without needing to register 5 times and wait on some other folks who are totally busy with more important stuff
[00:13] <mhb> that's why I like LP
[00:13] <Nightrose> mhb: kde encourages people to get commit access very early
[00:13] <Jucato> hm.. I have register to LP, to the wiki, to the mailing list, etc in *buntu anyway... it's not so much different
[00:13] <Nightrose> so there is no need for "trusted"
[00:13] <mhb> Jucato: you don't
[00:13] <Jucato> except that we have a membership process
[00:14] <Jucato> oh yeah... right... forgot :P
[00:14] <mhb> at least I think you have the same credentials for wiki and LP, don't you?
[00:14] <mhb> mailing lists, that is valid
[00:14] <mhb> I'd like some ML integration in LP.
[00:15] <mhb> Nightrose: right, which is often a bad practice, btw
[00:15] <Nightrose> you think so?
[00:15] <Riddell> Nightrose: looks good
[00:15] <mhb> Nightrose: if you follow this policy, you cannot really coordinate the people
[00:15] <Riddell> nixternal rather ^^
[00:15] <Nightrose> ;-)
[00:16] <Jucato> silly tab completion :)
[00:16] <Nightrose> mhb: and it still works great i think
[00:16] <nixternal> Riddell: only problem is it isn't installing the .manpages
[00:16] <cheguevara__> Riddell, all except 1 debdiffs for main are done
[00:16] <nixternal> other than that, it builds, installs, updates, and uninstalls
[00:16] <mhb> Nightrose: we had around 60 people in our translation team, all had "commit access", and we couldn't teach them to translate in the right places (KDE upstream, etc)
[00:16] <cheguevara__> emacs22 is confusing me by having both debian/control.in and debian/control
[00:16] <mhb> Nightrose: because they would do nothing for most of the year, then unexpectedly log in and start translating.
[00:17] <nixternal> I got addicted today by writing a plasmoid, now I want to take an idea and write a plasmoid for it
[00:17] <Riddell> cheguevara__: just edit both
[00:17] <Nightrose> mhb: ok that is unfortunate - where do you think the problem was exactly?
[00:17] <cheguevara__> Riddell, kk
[00:17] <Riddell> nixternal: I don't know I'm afraid, it's not too important
[00:18] <mhb> Nightrose: everyone had commit access, but noone bothered to join the actual communication
[00:18] <nixternal> Riddell: I think it may have something to do with the updated kde.mk file, but I had it build to output and didn't notice anything odd in it
[00:18] <Nightrose> mhb: i see
[00:18] <Jucato> "actual communication"?
[00:18] <nixternal> I threw in an echo at the beginning and the end, and both echoes showed up
[00:18] <Nightrose> mhb: but i don´t think that is really related to getting commit access easy
[00:19] <mhb> they just asked for it and got it
[00:19] <mhb> but then they become uncontrolavle
[00:19] <mhb> we kicked them all out, now all they can do is suggestions
[00:19] <mhb> and it works the same
[00:19] <Nightrose> that´s why you have revert
[00:19] <nixternal> well, if/when I get kdeplanet, all that is left is @kde.org and e.V., and I will be legit 100% :)
[00:19] <mhb> without any fears of a random guy walking in and translating half of the app incorrectly.
[00:20] <Nightrose> nixternal: hehe let´s both do that next year
[00:20] <Jucato> good lack you too :)
[00:20] <Jucato> er.. I meant luck
[00:20] <nixternal> Nightrose: that can be our new years resolution :)
[00:20] <Nightrose> nixternal: ;-) indeed
[00:20] <nixternal> !worksforme
[00:20] <ubotu> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
[00:20] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[00:20] <Nightrose> ;-)
[00:21] <Jucato> oh wow! 2nd FOSS/Linux birthday coming up yay! :)
[00:21] <nixternal> so is Amarok2 going to build from svn for me tonight?
[00:21] <Nightrose> nixternal: probably - if not bug harald tomorrow :)
[00:22] <nixternal> I see that KDE 4 has pulseaudio support built into it now
[00:23] <nixternal> OK...I think it is a bug squashing type of night
[00:26]  * cheguevara__ wonders about consolekit support
[00:32] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  ping
[00:32] <nixternal> yo yo
[00:33] <CheGuevara> damn wifi
[00:33] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  my friend santiago-ve  from the ubuntu-ve board is interested in helping out the development team
[00:33] <nixternal> send him this way, I am sure within the next couple of days we can abuse him
[00:33] <nixternal> I mean put him to work :p
[00:33] <santiago-ve> I am hear
[00:33] <santiago-ve> here*
[00:34] <CheGuevara> lol
[00:34] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  he is not shy and he is a real problem solver...
[00:34] <nixternal> oh, damn he heard that :)
[00:34] <santiago-ve> <.< nixternal, thanks for the nice welcome
[00:34] <nixternal> welcome santiago-ve!
[00:34] <santiago-ve> :)
[00:34] <CheGuevara> haha
[00:34] <effie_jayx> nixternal, he needs the basics of packaging and bug squashing
[00:34] <nixternal> what type of background do you have?
[00:34] <santiago-ve> (that was a warm welcome)
[00:35] <nixternal> groovy effie_jayx, no better place to learn than with Kubuntu
[00:35] <santiago-ve> nixternal, mainly im a php programmer... know some basics of pyton and c
[00:35] <nixternal> it is more than likely about to get hectic
[00:35] <santiago-ve> python*
[00:35] <nixternal> ooh php <- mhb :)
[00:35] <santiago-ve> also... a Qt enthusiast :D
[00:35] <effie_jayx> mhb?
[00:35] <santiago-ve> err.. i was about to ask the same
[00:35] <CheGuevara> ah another php programer
[00:35]  * CheGuevara is happy
[00:36] <nixternal> effie_jayx: we have a super top secret, we would have to kill you if we told you, type project which I think has some PHP in it :p
[00:36] <CheGuevara> aww home come i was never offered that :P
[00:36] <nixternal> grumble*kde4pim*grumble
[00:36] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  ow darn...
[00:36] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  well santiago-ve  will come in handy...
[00:36] <effie_jayx> he is a php guru
[00:36] <nixternal> have to talk to the man with the master plan... "m" to the "h" to the "b"
[00:37] <CheGuevara> lol
[00:37] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  you are wicked man...
[00:37] <effie_jayx> hehehe
[00:37] <nixternal> just have a little patience as the next couple of days are probably going to be a little rocky around here
[00:37] <santiago-ve> xD
[00:37] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  I myself would join but I am stuck with MOTU basics...
[00:38] <nixternal> we are working out, actually planning on working out, our Hardy master plan...we have the original master plan, but recent events look to have us adding more to the master plan, but nonetheless, it will be a beautiful master plan
[00:38] <effie_jayx> the GNOME FUD is getting to me...
[00:38] <nixternal> effie_jayx: you are on your way..I read your blog :)
[00:38] <santiago-ve> speaking of hardy
[00:38] <santiago-ve> let me burn my iso
[00:38] <santiago-ve> <.<
[00:38] <nixternal> they need to chill on the Gnome FUD, but at the same time, they brought it on to themselves...everything with Gnome will work itself out and everyone will go back to being super happy again :)
[00:39] <santiago-ve> So actually what a PHP guy can help for the moment?
[00:39] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  in the mean time I as a user and outsider feel like the boat is rocking hard...
[00:39] <nixternal> right now, not much, but soon probably quite a bit of help...like within a week possibly
[00:40] <nixternal> right now it is all merging and bug triaging yet
[00:40] <santiago-ve> hmm... is quanta involved? lol
[00:41] <nixternal> whatever you hack with would be involved I guess
[00:42]  * CheGuevara feels ashamed to use Zend
[00:42] <santiago-ve> CheGuevara, the ide doesnt makes a programmer.. the programmer makes the ide :p
[00:42] <CheGuevara> yeah
[00:42] <CheGuevara> but u know
[00:42] <CheGuevara> its closed source and not free and everythign :P
[00:42] <santiago-ve> effie_jayx, can tell you how many ides i can integrate
[00:42] <santiago-ve> xD
[00:43] <santiago-ve> well that's a point...
[00:43] <effie_jayx> santiago-ve,  well you can check out some merges for kde... I can help you
[00:43] <effie_jayx> the bad thing is many devels will be taking off for a couple of weeks
[00:43] <nixternal> I will be here
[00:43] <effie_jayx> workaholic
[00:44] <CheGuevara> heh
[00:44] <effie_jayx> upsss did >I say that out loud
[00:44] <nixternal> heh, I have been in school for so long, all I want to do is hack now
[00:44] <effie_jayx> santiago-ve,  there you go
[00:44] <CheGuevara> buts lots of volunteers are on breaks from real work
[00:44] <CheGuevara> so more can get done
[00:44] <effie_jayx> CheGuevara,  that's what I mean
[00:44] <santiago-ve> well i aint in a break... but since i have some free time at work~
[00:45] <santiago-ve> i guess i can come help~
[00:45] <santiago-ve> and in fact join the team
[00:45] <effie_jayx> santiago-ve,  you work and then you apply for it ;)
[00:46] <effie_jayx> it's like getting knighted... ;)
[00:46] <santiago-ve> hehe nothing in this life its free
[00:46] <santiago-ve> so... hands on
[00:46] <santiago-ve> :)
[00:48] <Nightrose> hehe that´s the spirit
[00:48] <CheGuevara> :P
[00:48] <santiago-ve> :)
[00:50] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  got any easy merges laying around...
[00:50] <nixternal> if there were, they would be in MoM
[00:50] <nixternal> check soprano if you would like
[00:50] <nixternal> it should be a straight forward merge, possibly a sync
[00:50] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  its to get santiago-ve  started on some work
[00:51] <effie_jayx> see how he likes it
[00:51] <effie_jayx> I am building the runghc again
[00:51] <nixternal> soprano should be pretty straight forward I think...can't remember if there were any debian->ubuntu conflicts or not
[00:52]  * santiago-ve is watching the screen like a kid looking to a candy
[00:52] <santiago-ve> candies*
[00:52] <effie_jayx> ok
[00:52] <santiago-ve> so soprano~
[00:53] <nixternal> ya, I don't think I merged it
[00:53] <nixternal> http://merges.ubuntu.com/s/soprano/REPORT
[00:53] <nixternal> no I didn't...there are 2 minor conflicts in the debian/ directory
[00:53] <nixternal> control and libsoprano-dev.install
[00:53] <nixternal> if that is a little much I can find another one for you
[00:54] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  we'll give it a wack and see
[00:54] <effie_jayx> thanks bro
[00:54] <nixternal> it should be pretty straight forward
[00:54] <nixternal> the conflict in control is probably just the Maintainer and XSBC-Original-Maintainer
[00:54] <nixternal> unless they updated/added a new lib
[00:55] <nixternal> http://merges.ubuntu.com/k/kshutdown/REPORT
[00:55] <nixternal> that looks easy, jpatrick isn't around to claim it right now either :p
[00:57] <santiago-ve> nixternal, im looking at the first one... and gonna see the other one...~ see which one ill take
[00:58]  * Nightrose is off to bed - night folks :)
[00:59] <CheGuevara> night
[01:00] <effie_jayx> CheGuevara,  good night brother
[01:00] <effie_jayx> CheGuevara, ups
[01:00] <nixternal> k'nite Nightrose
[01:00] <effie_jayx> Nightrose,  night
[01:00] <CheGuevara> :P
[01:01] <santiago-ve> g'night
[01:01] <nixternal> so no more universe freezes or something? I don't see it on the release schedule
[01:05] <CheGuevara> Riddell, all debdiffs for packages in main posted and compile tested
[01:10] <CheGuevara> brb reboot
[01:26] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  there seems to be a change in the lib you modifies in your last merge...
[01:26] <effie_jayx> nix could it be that the change made it into debian?
[01:26] <nixternal> it is possible that we could sync that package..I can't remember
[01:26] <nixternal> could have been, yes
[01:27] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  That's what I thought.. santiago and I are checking it
[01:28] <nixternal> ya, I think I came to the conclusion that it can probably get a sync request
[01:30] <effie_jayx> nixternal,  considering the export she is now putting in debian/rules?
[01:31] <nixternal> what is the export?
[01:31] <santiago-ve> export LDFLAGS+="-Wl,--as-needed" in rules to make dpkg-shlibdeps
[01:31] <santiago-ve> happier.
[01:32] <CheGuevara> mmm --as-needed
[01:32] <CheGuevara> optimisations :P
[01:32] <CheGuevara> evening Hobbsee
[01:33] <Hobbsee> heya
[01:33] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  you were late this morning... ;)
[01:33]  * effie_jayx considers the aussie timezone
[01:34] <effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  Hobbsee is never late... ;)
[01:34] <Hobbsee> to -classroom?
[01:34] <Hobbsee> heh :)
[01:35] <Jucato> :)
[01:35] <Jucato> moin Hobbsee
[01:37] <Hobbsee> heya Jucato
[01:37] <effie_jayx> ok nixternal  I used soprano to ilustrate a merge to santiago-ve
[01:38] <effie_jayx> we are asumming you are going to go through with the sync... and we look forward to it... so he can see the process finished...
[01:38] <nixternal> groovy
[01:39] <Jucato> hm.. I just realized you can't unmark duplicate bugs...
[01:39] <Jucato> oh wait.. hm...
[01:40] <Jucato> you can... but it's not so evident heh :)
[02:13] <Jucato> wow... is this just new in LP? bugs marked as Incomplete now show that it will expire after 59 days of no activity? (I can't recall seeing that warning/notice yesterday)
[02:24] <Hobbsee> thye keep adding and removing it
[02:48] <cheguevara> good night everyone
[03:05] <nixternal> alrighty, knocked out some of my package bugs...now it is time for some foooooooood!
[03:12] <santiago-ve> heh
[03:54] <nixternal> Riddell: I uploaded a fix for bug #154035 if you want to approve and upload for the website
[03:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154035 in eog "click and drag to move image only works with middle mouse button, scrollwheel zoom is disabled by default and its option is hidden away for no good reason (dup-of: 120162)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154035
[03:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120162 in eog "Unable to click and drag picture with mouse - regression." [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120162
[03:54] <nixternal> sorry about that
[03:54] <nixternal> Riddell: bug #154034
[03:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154034 in kubuntu-website "Software-properties-kde required to upgrade via adept" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154034
[03:58] <vorian> werd nixternal
[03:58] <vorian> how goes?
[03:58] <nixternal> trying to catch up on bugs
[03:58] <vorian> i see that :)
[03:59] <vorian> week after next i will be able to devote nearly a week to helping out :)
[03:59] <nixternal> woohoo
[04:00] <vorian> yeee haaa!
[04:01] <nixternal> !kdebugs
[04:01] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about kdebugs - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[04:01] <nixternal> damn, I can never find the link for kde package bugs
[04:04]  * nixternal wonders who is in a wiki editing mood around this place
[04:05] <vorian> whatcha need done?
[04:07] <nixternal> !kubuntu-bugs is Major Kubuntu desktop bugs can be found at https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs
[04:08] <nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu
[04:08] <nixternal> needs some updating
[04:08] <nixternal> need to come up with something fresh
[04:08] <nixternal> maybe I will work on that this weekend
[04:15] <nixternal> %editors
[04:15] <nixternal> imbrandon: can you add me as a ubotu editor again please?
[04:15] <nixternal> !kubuntu-bugs
[04:15] <ubotu> kubuntu-bugs is Major Kubuntu desktop bugs can be found at https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs
[04:15] <nixternal> woohah
[04:16] <nixternal> ooh, heart burn
[04:16] <imbrandon> nixternal: hrm no i cant
[04:16] <nixternal> what good are you then :p
[04:16] <imbrandon> i have no idea how to, i probably still have the power but not the knowhow
[04:16] <imbrandon> lol
[04:16] <nixternal> you have the powah
[04:16]  * nixternal looks for the command
[04:16] <imbrandon> %whoami
[04:16] <ubotu> imbrandon
[04:17] <nixternal> hah
[04:17] <nixternal> a
[04:17] <nixternal> hahahaha
[04:17] <nixternal> that was actually kinda funny
[04:18] <nixternal> %addeditor nixternal
[04:19] <imbrandon> %addeditor nixternal
[04:19] <ubotu> OK
[04:19] <nixternal> listen to me bot when I talke to you
[04:19] <nixternal> thank you sir
[04:19] <imbrandon> nixternal: had to do it in a pm
[04:19] <imbrandon> worked
[04:20] <nixternal> OK, it is showing up..thanks again
[04:46] <stdin> nixternal: you should probably add <reply> in that factoid
[04:46] <stdin> ie: !no kubuntu-bugs is <reply> Major Kubuntu desktop bugs can be found at https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs
[04:47] <santiago-ve> nixternal, i've got some warnings
[04:47] <Jucato> ooh stdin...
[04:47] <santiago-ve> when using pbuild to "build" a .deb pac~
[04:47] <santiago-ve> of the soprano lib
[04:48] <santiago-ve> lots of stuff like dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: debian/libsoprano4/usr/lib/soprano/libsoprano_raptorserializer.so shouldn't be linked with libm.so.6 (it uses none of its symbols).
[04:53] <nixternal> !no kubuntu-bugs is <reply> Major Kubuntu desktop bugs can be found at https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs
[04:53] <nixternal> wtf
[04:53] <nixternal> it sent it to ubuntu-ops
[04:53] <Jucato> !no kubuntu-bugs is <reply> Major Kubuntu desktop bugs can be found at https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs
[04:53] <ubotu> I'll remember that Jucato
[04:53] <nixternal> I hate that bot, I wish he would ping out
[04:53] <Jucato> :)
[04:53] <nixternal> look at editors, my name is in there
[04:53] <nixternal> %editors
[04:54] <stdin> have you done @login ?
[04:54] <nixternal> who knows
[04:54] <Jucato> did you identify?
[04:54] <nixternal> @login
[04:54] <Jucato> %login I think
[04:54] <ubotu> OK
[04:54] <ubotu> Invalid arguments for login.
[04:54] <Jucato> oh there :)
[04:54] <nixternal> you stupid bot
[04:54] <Jucato> lol
[04:54] <stdin> both @ and % work
[04:54] <nixternal> %login
[04:54] <ubotu> OK
[04:54] <Jucato> stdin: OK
[04:54] <Jucato> :)
[04:54] <nixternal> about damn time
[04:54]  * Jucato just felt like a bot :)
[04:54] <nixternal> you smell like it too :p
[04:54] <Jucato> !whoami
[04:54] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about whoami - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[04:54] <Jucato> hahaha
[04:54] <nixternal> amarok2 didn't build in svn!)*#)@!
[04:54] <nixternal> %whoami
[04:54] <ubotu> nixternal
[04:55] <stdin> ubotu: whoami
[04:55] <Jucato> %whoami
[04:55] <ubotu> Jucato
[04:55] <nixternal> %whosyourdaddy
[04:55] <Jucato> lol
[04:55] <nixternal> hahaha, that is what I thought of when imbrandon did it earlier
[04:55] <Jucato> now try your editing cow powers :D
[04:55] <stdin> nixternal: you know all commands get logged :P
[04:55] <nixternal> !no kubuntu-bugs is <reply> Major Kubuntu desktop bugs can be found at https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs
[04:55] <ubotu> I'll remember that nixternal
[04:55] <nixternal> thank you bot, now go take a nap, you deserve it
[04:56] <Jucato> nooooo! we can't survive without the boot
[04:56] <Jucato> bot*
[04:56] <nixternal> would be nice to have a personal line to dashbot though
[04:56] <nixternal> I am always asking him how things are going in svn
[04:58] <nixternal> holy smokes, you even have a php quit message....that is just way to wrong :)
[04:58] <nixternal> santiago-ve: those are just warnings for soprano
[04:58] <nixternal> when you have a debdiff, send it my way and I will take a look at it
[05:00] <santiago-ve> err soprano_1.98.0~rc1-1.diff.gz   <-- that file?
[05:00] <nixternal> nope
[05:01] <Jucato> hm.. yeah... why isn't adept in that list of kubuntu bugs? is that a portent of something? :)
[05:02] <santiago-ve> nixternal, well enlighten me
[05:02] <santiago-ve> xD
[05:02] <stdin> debdiff old.dsc new.dsc > mydebdiff.debdiff
[05:02] <Jucato> pfft.... debs.. :)
[05:02] <santiago-ve> on my way
[05:03] <Jucato> I have completely forgotten any packaging foo I had... and now have to setup everything in the vm I'm using :P
[05:11] <santiago-ve> nixternal, no output...
[05:11] <santiago-ve> thanks stdin for the tip
[05:11] <santiago-ve> :)
[05:22] <nixternal> santiago-ve: debuild soprano_1.99~rc2-0ubuntu2.dsc soprano_1.99~rc2-1ubuntu1.dsc > soprano.debdiff
[05:24] <santiago-ve> LOOOOOOOOOOOL
[05:24] <santiago-ve> u gonna kill me
[05:24] <santiago-ve> xD
[05:24] <santiago-ve> i was looking at the 98
[05:25] <nixternal> ahh, just go back one version
[05:27] <santiago-ve> hmm nixternal problem
[05:28] <nixternal> uh oh
[05:29] <nixternal> I am enjoying a Padron Series 1926 (#9 Maduro) with a 56 ring gauge, and sipping some wonderfual anejo
[05:29] <nixternal> life is grand
[05:30] <Jucato> :D
[05:32] <santiago-ve> mkay nixternal question... i built the deb using:     sudo pbuilder build *.dsc
[05:33] <nixternal> how many .dsc files did you have in the directory you built it in? did you use the grab-merge.sh script from merges.ubuntu.com?
[05:33] <santiago-ve> nixternal, yes i used that script
[05:33] <santiago-ve> i have like 4
[05:33] <nixternal> then don't do *.dsc
[05:34] <nixternal> *2ubuntu1.dsc would work
[05:34] <santiago-ve> soprano_1.98.0~rc1-1.dsc
[05:34] <santiago-ve> soprano_1.99~rc2-0ubuntu2.dsc
[05:34] <santiago-ve> soprano_1.99~rc2-1.dsc
[05:35] <santiago-ve> <.<
[05:35] <nixternal> in the soprano-1.99~rc2 directory, run ->    debuild -S -sa
[05:35] <nixternal> that will build and create the .dsc file, which I figured would have already been created
[05:36] <nixternal> oh no, you are right
[05:36] <nixternal> just the 3
[05:36] <nixternal> you need to create the dsc file by cd'ing into the directory and building it with debuild -S -sa
[05:36] <santiago-ve> soprano-1.99~rc2-1ubuntu1        <-- only dir i have
[05:36] <santiago-ve> so im going an doing there
[05:36] <santiago-ve> :p
[05:37] <nixternal> hrmm
[05:37]  * nixternal looks
[05:37] <nixternal> oh ya
[05:37] <santiago-ve> nixternal, using pbuilder?
[05:37] <nixternal> derr
[05:37] <nixternal> you made the necessary changes in that directory correct?
[05:38] <santiago-ve> <.<
[05:38] <santiago-ve> like?
[05:38] <nixternal> changes to the control file and what not
[05:38] <nixternal> if so, you need to rename that directory like so
[05:39] <nixternal> mv soprano-1.99~rc2-1ubuntu1 soprano-1.99~rc2
[05:39] <nixternal> cd soprano-1.99~rc2
[05:39] <nixternal> debuild -S -sa
[05:39] <nixternal> cd ../
[05:39] <nixternal> sudo pbuilder build *1ubuntu1.dsc
[05:39] <santiago-ve> mkay
[05:39] <nixternal> if it builds fine, then make a debdiff like so:
[05:40] <santiago-ve> what bout that dch -i ?
[05:40] <nixternal> debdiff soparano_1.99~rc2-0ubuntu2.dsc soprano_1.99~rc2-1ubuntu1.dsc > soprano.debdiff
[05:40] <nixternal> you shouldn't have to do dch -i
[05:40] <santiago-ve> k
[05:40] <nixternal> just dch -e to make sure everything is correct
[05:40] <nixternal> the multidistrotools on merges.ubuntu.com do the fun stuff for you already
[05:41] <santiago-ve> btw... no changes where done on the package at all
[05:41] <santiago-ve> i just want to get to know the whole process
[05:41] <santiago-ve> :)
[05:41] <nixternal> I still think we can request a sync on it
[05:42] <nixternal> go through and read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
[05:42] <nixternal> it has pretty much all of the info you are seeking
[05:43] <santiago-ve> :p i've been reading iu just see a step... and try try try uyntil i can
[05:43] <santiago-ve> xD
[05:44] <nixternal> yes, we can jsut sync that
[05:44] <nixternal> which is good, it will fix my previous botched upload with a bogus .orig.tar.gz
[05:44] <santiago-ve> btw... debuild -S -sa      <-- gives an error (and that's because im using feisty... i guess)
[05:44] <santiago-ve> oh ye... i saw that on the changelog
[05:49] <Jucato> hm... nixternal, Adept has a class that's used in Adept Manager and Updater called "TestApp"... and it seems to be *the* main Adept class :)
[05:49] <nixternal> heh
[05:49] <nixternal> that would be a little odd I would think
[05:49] <santiago-ve> law
[05:49] <santiago-ve> lawl
[05:50] <santiago-ve> speaking of package managers... there's a package manager written in PHP over gtk... i guess someone.. with lots of.... idk of anything... could write it on php and qt
[05:51] <Jucato> lots of repeated code as well... app.h/.cpp is repeated inside manager and updater... :)
[05:51] <Jucato> O.o
[05:51] <Jucato> no wonder adept is such a monster :)
[05:52]  * Jucato has now even greater admiration for those who have bravely attempted to improve adept :D
[05:53] <nixternal> OK, I requested a sync with the archive-admins on soprano
[05:53] <nixternal> so did you learn anything tonight santiago-ve by messing with that package?
[05:53] <santiago-ve> sure i did nixternal
[05:54] <nixternal> groovy...before you know it, you will be helping me :)
[05:54] <santiago-ve> got lots of question >:D
[05:54] <santiago-ve> ill be glad
[05:54] <nixternal> which isn't far off...I have totally forgotten some simple things it seems
[05:54] <santiago-ve> well... you tellme what to do... and ill put effort on that
[05:55] <nixternal> that works for me
[05:55]  * Jucato has to start from scratch on packaging again :P
[05:55] <Jucato> nixternal: is there a metapackage for almost all the packaging tools you need? a sort of ubuntu-packaging metapackage for devscripts, pbuilder, etc, etc?
[05:56] <nixternal> not that I can think of
[05:56] <nixternal> would be good honestly, actually maybe ubuntu-dev-tools
[05:56] <nixternal> !info ubuntu-dev-tools
[05:56] <ubotu> ubuntu-dev-tools: useful tools for Ubuntu developers. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.19 (gutsy), package size 30 kB, installed size 200 kB
[05:56] <Jucato> hm... :)
[05:57] <nixternal> bah, k3b in svn repos is broke it seems
[05:57] <nixternal> extragear though, what do you expect :)
[05:58] <Jucato> Depends: python, python-central (>= 0.5.8), binutils, devscripts, sudo, python-launchpad-bugs (>= 0.2.14), reportbug
[05:59] <nixternal> ya, not much
[05:59] <Jucato> oh well :)
[05:59] <santiago-ve> O.o
[06:00] <nixternal> this kde4 build better work or I am going to snap
[06:00] <nixternal> I will toss my cigar at the monitor
[06:00] <Jucato> hm.. make sure it doesn't bounce back at you :)
[06:00] <nixternal> woot
[06:00] <Jucato> hm.. you smoke? O.o
[06:00] <nixternal> ooh, I see some Oxygen hinting to KDM4
[06:00] <nixternal> I smoke a cigar every now and then
[06:01] <Jucato> ooh new factoid for me :)
[06:01] <nixternal> but like Bill Clinton, I do not inhale :)
[06:03] <nixternal> and I only smoke expensive cigars...nothing like a really nice cigar and a great tequilla
[06:03] <Jucato> heheh :)
[06:04] <Jucato> I don't smoke (anymore?)... and never tried expensive ones :)
[06:16] <santiago-ve> well im out
[06:16] <santiago-ve> nixternal, thx for letting me halp
[06:16] <santiago-ve> :)
[06:19] <nixternal> OMG JUCATO!#@#!#!#!@
[06:19] <nixternal> read the last post on my blog
[06:20] <nixternal> for the kde4 in kubuntu thread
[06:20] <nixternal> holy shnikeys they brought up the "KDE should match Ubuntu's release schedule"
[06:20] <Jucato> the kubuntu 8.04 feature kde4 thread?
[06:20] <nixternal> are you out of your mind...if anything, Ubuntu should change their release schedules for KDE, as KDE was there way before Ubuntu
[06:20] <Jucato> lol :)
[06:20] <nixternal> that pisses me off, and now I see why those at akademy were defensive
[06:21] <nixternal> Kubuntu would need a ton of leverage power to even think of such a feat, heck even Ubuntu would
[06:22] <Jucato> "First of all, Ubuntu needs to solidify its public image as much as possible." <--- huh? what? O.o
[06:24] <Jucato> "I understand why Kubuntu wants to delay their LTS release." <--- oh so now it's our decision?
[06:24] <Jucato> bah! still keeping mum on this... you don't want me ranting again :)
[06:25] <nixternal> oh ya I do..I need your help before I implode!
[06:25] <nixternal> people like you, they hate me
[06:25] <Jucato> lol
[06:25] <Jucato> people are tired of me :)
[06:25] <nixternal> heh
[06:26] <nixternal> LTS is nothing more than sticking a Type-R sticker on your Honda, it isn't going anywhere faster or smoother, and look at it this way, w/o the sticker, people think of you as a sleeper, and when they least expect it
[06:26] <Jucato> but you know what... I haven't heard any of the other distros complain about KDE not having a tight fixed  schedule...
[06:26] <nixternal> BOOOYAHHHHHH WE WIN! ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US
[06:26] <nixternal> no, only Ubuntu because they can't get their way with KDE
[06:26] <nixternal> he said have you seen how much Gnome has progressed
[06:26] <Jucato> precisely...
[06:26] <nixternal> ummm...no I haven't, sorry
[06:27] <nixternal> it looks and acts the same it did last year, and the year before, and the year before when I used it
[06:27] <Jucato> hm... I better consult my dictionary for the meaning of the word :)
[06:27] <nixternal> same with KDE
[06:27] <nixternal> like Ubuntu is God or something..that is absurd
[06:27] <Jucato> hm.. maybe he meant "how much GNOME has progressed with marketing its ass"?
[06:28] <nixternal> haha, true
[06:28] <Jucato> GNOME is undeniably better at people-relations imho... while KDE trumps on the technical superiority
[06:28] <nixternal> I like what one of the devs at akademy said "he wants to meet his goals so gnome can catch up"
[06:28] <Jucato> of course... Ubuntu makes it look like GNOME does well on both :)
[06:29] <nixternal> ya, but if Ubuntu was so big for Gnome, why is Gnome picking Foresight as their distro of choice at the SCORE show or whatever it is in California which is soon
[06:29] <Jucato> exactly!!!
[06:29] <Jucato> I was just about to bring that up btw
[06:29] <Jucato> GNOME chose Foresight for it's developer thingy thing....
[06:29] <nixternal> actually, there will be 2 huge gnome booths, 1 ran by Foresight and the other by Fedora
[06:29] <nixternal> yup
[06:30] <Jucato> (btw, I wished KDE had something like that too... the closest would probably be Binner's daily builds)
[06:30] <nixternal> notice my "friendly with Foresight people." comment in there :)
[06:30] <nixternal> ya, Binner rocks, but openSUSe has a little more help than we do
[06:30]  * Jucato nods
[06:30] <Jucato> I think their build service helps a lot in that too
[06:30] <nixternal> but I seriously think once KDE 4 rolls, we can attract the new people because .debs rule the world!
[06:31] <Jucato> yay to the best package management system/format next to source code!
[06:31]  * Jucato runs away
[06:31] <nixternal> hehe
[06:31] <nixternal> howdy Lure
[06:31]  * Jucato Lures nixternal
[06:31] <nixternal> oh man, I think there is a meeting in like 4.5 hours
[06:32] <nixternal> I was gonna go to bed early, it is my dad's birthday
[06:32] <nixternal> I should go next door and wake him up...if he is sleeping
[06:32] <nixternal> 00:32, he is still awake
[06:32] <Lure> hello nixternal and other fellows
[06:32] <Lure> so we have a meeting in couple of hours...
[06:33] <Jucato> uhuh
[06:33] <Jucato> gonna be a heated one :)
[06:33] <Jucato> nixternal *needs* to be there
[06:33] <nixternal> holy pipe smokers, he even posted a blog post of that
[06:33] <Jucato> coz he's probably the only one who has had a positive glimpse of the future :)
[06:33] <nixternal> Jucato: check the planet
[06:34] <Jucato> yeah sow it
[06:34] <Jucato> er.. saw*
[06:34] <Jucato> :/
[06:34] <nixternal> omg
[06:34] <nixternal> I need more tequilla
[06:34] <Jucato> this is going to be sweet!!!
[06:34] <Jucato> Planet Wars v2.0 under GPLv2 :D
[06:35] <Jucato> hm... I need mt.dew
[06:35] <Jucato> brb...
[06:51] <nixternal> umm, http://gnomedesktop.org/node/3274  <-- take a look at the author there, look familiar? :)
[06:52] <Jucato> wee :)
[06:52]  * Jucato didn't know he wrote there too :)
[06:55]  * Jucato is off to do more work....
[06:55] <Jucato> nixternal: you really need to be there at the meeting :)
[06:56] <Jucato> and if you're not there... you really need to be there :P
[07:11] <nixternal> Jucato: http://blog.nixternal.com/2007.12.22/re-regular-release-schedule-benefits/
[07:12] <Jucato> ooooh that's why you were silent :)
[07:12] <nixternal> oh ya
[07:12]  * Jucato can see smoke coming out from nixternal's ears :)
[07:13] <nixternal> hehe
[07:13] <nixternal> you think
[07:13] <Jucato> I know :)
[07:16] <nixternal> someone just asked me what Linux distro to try out, and being a smart ass I said "Vixta"
[07:16] <nixternal> haha, when he asked why, I said I was being a punk and told you that because it looks like vista
[07:16] <nixternal> he isn't happy
[07:17] <Jucato> lol
[07:17] <Jucato> ah the things tequilla can do to a person :)
[07:17] <nixternal> I only had 2
[07:17] <nixternal> in like 1 hour
[07:17] <Jucato> and that's 1 more than 1 :)
[07:18] <nixternal> haha
[07:18] <nixternal> I prupose that Gnome follow KDE's releases!
[07:18] <nixternal> see, the distros have it backwards if they think they can manipulate the DEs
[07:18] <nixternal> w/o the DEs, the distro's ain't dookey
[07:19] <Jucato> Ubuntu shouldn't pride itself with its predictable release schedule.. after all, it only patterned that after GNOME :)
[07:20] <nixternal> lol
[07:20] <nixternal> don't get me wrong, I totally respect Ubuntu and everything it has done for Linux, but it isn't God, and it sure isn't King Kong
[07:21] <Jucato> definitely :)
[07:21] <Jucato> Ubuntu isn't God... Kubuntu is :D
[07:21]  * Jucato runs away again
[07:21] <nixternal> hahaha, nice
[07:22] <Jucato> oh poor GNOME... even FSF/GNU, from which it took  its name, has sort of "disowned" it :)
[07:22] <nixternal> sort of?
[07:22] <nixternal> the man who cussed KDE praised KDE
[07:22] <Jucato> like "it's only a GNU by name, but not by principle"
[07:22] <Jucato> http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/
[07:22] <Jucato> heh yeah :)
[07:23] <nixternal> hahah, the cowboy project
[07:23] <nixternal> that is great
[07:23] <Jucato> :D
[07:23] <nixternal> RMS doesn't use a GUI, and when he does, he uses Emacs
[07:23] <nixternal> you know, it took me years to understand that, and honestly, I still don't understand it, I just act like I do :)
[07:23] <Jucato> lol
[07:24] <Jucato> (neither do I...)
[07:24] <nixternal> hahahahah, that guy I told to get Vixta is cussing me out, telling me I ruined his vacation
[07:24] <nixternal> I will have to take him for coffee in the morning
[07:24] <Jucato> hahaha!
[07:25] <nixternal> 01:25:07 [      hurt] gonna beat u with my xp cd nixternal when i meet u
[07:25] <nixternal> hahahahahaha, pwnd
[07:25] <Jucato> oh I so want to send !visternal to him :)
[07:29] <nixternal> lol
[07:29] <nixternal> 01:25:26 [      hurt] and scratch u with my gateway system win me recover cd
[07:29] <nixternal> ouch
[07:29] <Jucato> lol
[07:33] <Jucato> nixternal: is it normal that the adept .tar.gz package from apt-get source adept contains a .bzr directory?
[07:33] <nixternal> it shouldn't
[07:34] <Jucato> oh ok. it does :)
[07:34] <nixternal> lintian should have picked that up
[07:34] <Jucato> being Adept, I'm not surprised something went wrong :P
[07:34]  * Jucato pets Adept :)
[07:35] <nixternal> someone just did a cp -r and not an export
[07:35] <Jucato> hm... I'm seriously annoyed that I have completely forgotten packaging basics in 2-3 months time :/
[07:36] <nixternal> I did it in 2-3 weeks time, so don't feel bad
[07:36] <nixternal> Jucato: but that is good though for you
[07:36] <nixternal> there has been a lot of changes that I am trying to learn while unlearning the old
[07:36] <Jucato> oh changes?
[07:37] <Jucato> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide is still the guide to read?
[07:37] <nixternal> ya, with the debian control files, interdiffs, and I can't even think of the rest
[07:37] <nixternal> I am still lost on an interdiff, only because I haven't read up on it
[07:37] <Jucato> ew... :/
[07:37] <nixternal> ya, you can go through it, but I would probably scour all of the w.k.o/MOTU pages first
[07:37] <Jucato> I guess that's the tradeoff for such an excellent package format... complexity...
[07:37] <nixternal> exactly
[07:38] <nixternal> I guesss
[07:38] <Jucato> :)
[07:38] <nixternal> you should go into #kde and tell troy that kde needs to follow ubuntu's release schedule, see what he says :)
[07:38] <nixternal> he cracks up me up
[07:39] <Jucato> haha
[07:50] <nixternal> man, TheGZeus left a great, actually unbelievable awesome response on Tristan's blog
[07:50] <nixternal> he actually said it way better than I could ever imagined myself saying it
[07:50]  * Jucato checks
[07:51] <nixternal> I say we hire that guy for Kubuntu Marketing
[07:51] <nixternal> I mean damn, I really really like it
[07:52] <Jucato> hehe :)
[07:54] <nixternal> he totally took my frustration, and said it so simply in less than 2 paragraphs
[07:54]  * Jucato is worried why he feels less frustrated about all these really...
[07:55] <nixternal> because you don't care anymore...you use XP
[07:55] <nixternal> traitor!
[07:55] <Jucato> lol!
[07:55] <Jucato> a few days/weeks ago... I would have probably written 3 posts already :)
[07:55] <Jucato> loooong posts
[07:55] <nixternal> hey, have you updated your kde4 build on your headless setup at all?
[07:55] <Jucato> oh my laptop's gone :)
[07:55] <nixternal> I did a headless setup on ubuntu 64, and my god it is aweful
[07:56] <Jucato> it's w/ my mom, sitting in her office... on a saturday... with no one in the office :)
[07:56] <nixternal> oh that sucks
[07:56] <Jucato> yeah. I need to get an alternative mobile device really soon :)
[07:57] <nixternal> eeePC
[07:57] <Jucato> it's a battle between N810/N800 and Eee PC... with the Eeeek PC being the last resort, and only if the 8 or 16GB model comes out really soon
[07:57] <nixternal> I have to say, the eeePC totally rocks
[07:57] <nixternal> there are a couple of guys in the LUG with them, and they are really impressive
[07:57] <nixternal> not a fan of the stock Xandros config on them, but ubuntu or xubuntu on them looks nice
[07:57] <nixternal> actually the guy I told to get Vixta, he has one
[07:57] <Jucato> yeah so I've heard. of course I'm planning to install something other than Xandros there...
[07:58] <Jucato> although I seem to fancy the Xandros Easy Mode UI...
[07:58] <nixternal> ya, but it is no fun
[07:58] <nixternal> I got that cell phone feeling from it
[07:58] <Jucato> but I'm only going to dare replace it if there's a sort of restore CD...
[07:58] <Jucato> :)
[07:59] <Jucato> but right now I'm really obsessed with a Nokia IT... even an N800 with OS2008 would do :)
[07:59] <Jucato> and http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ has only made me even more determined to get one :)
[08:00] <nixternal> we use Qt4 at Motorola on our cell phones, well some of the new ones coming out...but I don't think I was supposed to say that
[08:01] <Jucato> :P
[08:01] <Jucato> I might settle for the Motorala A1200 (Ming) if worse comes to worst...
[08:01] <Jucato> hm.. but then again I haven't seen one again lately...
[08:01] <Jucato> (it uses Qtopia)
[08:02] <Jucato> I have recently become obsessed w/ Qt on mobile devices/gadgets :D
[08:02] <nixternal> ya, my internship just ended with motorola, and that was pretty fun
[08:02] <nixternal> I am obsessed with qt on everything
[08:03] <Jucato> :D
[08:03] <nixternal> we have a couple of java projects at the uni I would like to convert over to qt
[08:03] <Jucato> I wished my brick of a smartphone could use it :(
[08:03] <nixternal> that way there, when students step up to maintan it, they will be forced to go opensource
[08:04] <nixternal> one thing my instructor and I thought of, was by releasing the source code with a Linux CD :)
[08:04] <Jucato> hehe :)
[08:04] <nixternal> they just won't have access to the DRM
[08:06] <nixternal> Thank you
[08:07] <nixternal> w00t...I have a thank you on my blog post..and not someone telling me to go to hell for once
[08:07] <nixternal> hahaha
[08:08] <Jucato> jajaaj
[08:08] <Jucato> er. hahah!
[08:09] <Jucato> although he could have probably meant "thank you for fanning the flames" too :)
[08:09] <nixternal> ya, but I will take the thank you for the post instead...it makes me feel better :p
[08:12] <Jucato> heh
[08:16] <nixternal> OK, I am gonna go crash for a bit...I will try and wake up in 2.5 hours
[08:16] <nixternal> :(
[08:16] <Jucato> please do :)
[08:16] <Jucato> you're sane views are much needed :)
[08:16] <Jucato> good night! sleep well :)
[09:02] <mhb> \y
[09:11] <Jucato> \o
[09:22] <mhb> good morning
[09:23] <iRon> hi
[09:24] <Jucato> good afternoon (I think)
[09:59] <mhb> Lure: as far as I am concerned, I wanted this discussion to be ended swiftly, possibly at today's meeting
[09:59] <mhb> (responding to your email at kubuntu-devel)
[09:59] <Lure> mhb: only possible if decision makers will be there
[09:59] <Lure> mhb: whoever they are
[10:00] <mhb> they're not really very talkative, whoever they are
[10:01] <Jucato> "whoever they are"... sounds so mysterious :)
[10:03] <mhb> right, it's mjg59, mdz, sabdfl & keybuk
[10:03] <Lure> mhb: I did not see that TB really did the decision - they normally communicate their decisions
[10:04] <Lure> mhb: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/techboard
[10:04] <mhb> Lure: what we *can* do at this meeting is to decide on actions that we take whatever their response will be.
[10:04] <Lure> mhb: "In any event, full transcripts of the Board meeting will be published immediately after the meeting."
[10:05] <mhb> my prediction is that they will not withdraw this decision
[10:05] <Lure> mhb: I am not asking for that - I am asking for open discussion with decision makers
[10:05] <mhb> if they do, we can stick to what we're doing right now, gettin ready for an LTS.
[10:05] <Lure> mhb: like Mark did with dapper delay for example
[10:06] <mhb> @schedule
[10:06] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 22 Dec 11:00: Kubuntu Developers | 02 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu meeting | 09 Jan 20:00: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00: Edubuntu meeting
[10:06] <Lure> mhb: no-LTS decision is also opportunity for any other commercial entity to take over that and become Kubuntu-backers (like Canonical is for Ubuntu)
[10:07] <mhb> ** kubuntu developer's meeting in 50 minutes
[10:08]  * Lure has to grab some food unless I want to starve on the meeting
[10:20] <mhb> Lure: do we have such an entity?
[10:26] <mhb> Lure: also, discussing this may put some of our foundations in jeopardy
[10:27] <mhb> if a company took interest in Kubuntu, Canonical might decide to support its flagship only (no CDs, no Riddell, etc.)
[10:28] <mhb> you know how companies are - profit is all they're interested in.
[10:29] <mhb> frankly, it is my personal opinion only, but there may have been similar motives behind the Kubuntu LTS cancelling.
[10:29] <Jucato> 30 minutes...
[10:40] <jpatrick> mhb: just thinking about that is bad
[10:49] <Jucato> hm... I might suddenly drop off, depending on what time my sister arrives and what time we have dinner :/
[10:50] <jpatrick> moin Hobbsee
[10:51] <Jucato> oh krap why did I just /j #Hobbsee?
[10:52] <mhb> ** Kubuntu developer's meeting in ten minutes
[10:52] <Hobbsee> heya
[10:52] <mhb> hi Hobbsee
[10:54] <mhb> I suddenly realized - it's Christmas time!
[10:55] <mhb> and you know what that means...
[10:55] <Jucato> hm... what?
[10:56] <Hobbsee> batshit insane customers from hell.
[10:56]  * Hobbsee stabs
[10:57] <Jucato> hm... what's that red liquid thingy flowing out of my chest?
[10:57] <mhb> well long time ago, on December 24th, a child was born
[10:57]  * Jucato remembers a song :)
[10:57] <mhb> it was prophecised he'll bring love and piece to all free software and unite all distributions in piece
[10:58] <mhb> peace
[10:58] <toma> mhb: on the 24th ?
[10:58] <mhb> I'm still asleep today.
[10:58] <Jucato> :D
[10:58]  * Jucato wakes up nixternal
[10:58] <toma> someone is messing with history
[10:58] <mhb> toma: yup
[10:58] <mhb> toma: not really, that's totally true
[10:59] <jpatrick> yep
[10:59] <jpatrick> ok, 12 o'clock
[11:00] <mhb> ** meeting right now!
[11:04] <yuriy> oooh meeting time and i'm still up
[11:14] <mhb> the suspense is too much for me, I can't look
[11:14] <yuriy> oh wow nixternal is up too
[11:15] <jpatrick> yuriy: I found the kdmtheme-doing-nothing bug - upstream forgot an emit signal
[11:15] <yuriy> jpatrick: oh, nice
[11:15] <jpatrick> now packaging and will have it up soon
[11:16] <nixternal> ya, I can't believe I woke up
[11:16]  * nixternal brews some coffee
[11:18] <cheguevara> morning
[11:28]  * Lure_ dropped off
[11:28] <Lure_> damn Konverstion - does not want to join
[11:29] <jpatrick> use irssi!
[11:29] <iRon> everyone could join meeting? or only members? :)
[11:31] <Lure_> iRon: everyone!
[11:32] <Lure_> iRon: your input is as valuable as any other
[11:32] <Lure_> apachelogger: hi, meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[11:32] <jpatrick> apachelogger: guten tag! :D
[11:33] <apachelogger> ahoy
[11:33]  * apachelogger is late due to broken kde4 :P
[11:34] <Hobbsee>  don't say that ;)
[11:36] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: well, I br0ke it ;-)
[11:37] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[11:37] <jpatrick> temptations...
[12:11]  * Hobbsee pokes sebas
[12:13] <nixternal> ok, there is #ubuntu-derivativeteam
[12:15] <\sh> moins
[12:15] <nixternal> Riddell: what I find interesting, is you got that email I guess after I quit that team for "inactivity"
[12:19] <Hobbsee> !no kubuntu-bugs is <reply> Major Kubuntu desktop bugs can be found at https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team/+packagebugs
[12:19] <ubotu> I'll remember that Hobbsee
[12:19] <Hobbsee> nixternal: i win.
[12:22] <nixternal> hehe
[12:24] <apachelogger> hm
[12:24] <apachelogger> oh
[12:24] <apachelogger> bug #95531
[12:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 95531 in kubuntu-default-settings "Change Kmenu icon Kubuntu one" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95531
[12:24] <apachelogger> I'm so against this, I can't even tell :P
[12:25] <_StefanS_> is hardy stable enough for a laptop yet ?
[12:25] <Riddell> didn't I close that?
[12:26] <Riddell> apachelogger: I closed another one the same, just close it if you want
[12:26] <apachelogger> ok
[12:26] <Riddell> _StefanS_: it broke my pcmcia
[12:27] <_StefanS_> Riddell: ok, besides that?
[12:27] <_StefanS_> Riddell: hal, acpi and so on - does it work?
[12:27] <_StefanS_> Riddell: dont mind the suspend/hibernate, I dont use it
[12:27] <Riddell> _StefanS_: hal does, I don't use the others
[12:27] <Jucato> oh sorry guys... what did I miss? :(
[12:27] <_StefanS_> Riddell: Ok, then I might upgrade..
[12:28] <_StefanS_> Riddell: to follow the development closer, and maybe even start to contribute some stuff again :D
[12:28] <nixternal> nixternal->bed();
[12:28] <nixternal> see ya'll later
[12:28] <_StefanS_> bye nix
[12:28] <Jucato> bye nixternal :)
[12:29] <_StefanS_> I never thought I should say it, but I actually find the kickoff menu in kde4 usable..
[12:29] <_StefanS_> I guess you cant beat proper research after all ;)
[12:30] <_StefanS_> Riddell: is kde4 in hardy still maintained in the ppa.launchpad, or what?
[12:30] <Jucato> it's actually usable. I just wished it were resizeable and customizeable..
[12:31] <_StefanS_> Jucato: yep, I found myself using it without thinking that much.. the resizing bits is probably around the corner
[12:31] <_StefanS_> Jucato: do you know how often kde4 is updated against kde4 svn?
[12:32] <_StefanS_> kde4 in hardy i mean
[12:32] <Jucato> I dunno. if it's stdin's ppa, better ask him
[12:32] <Riddell> nixternal: did you upload kdelibs?
[12:32] <_StefanS_> Jucato: http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu
[12:32] <Jucato> ah. no not sure. sorry
[12:32] <_StefanS_> uhm k
[12:33] <_StefanS_> gotta go
[12:33] <_StefanS_> see you all.
[12:33] <iRon> Riddell: ntfs partitions mounting works in Hardy without any patch if you remove "Mount as user" in disk Properties dialog.
[12:34] <Riddell> disk Properties dialog?
[12:34] <iRon> go to media:/, right click on disk.. select Properties
[12:34] <jpatrick> Riddell: new kmplayer! (if you can sneak it in): http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/kmplayer/
[12:35] <iRon> Riddell: and then "Mounting" tab
[12:35] <Riddell> iRon: sorry can't test just now, girlfriend on the laptop
[12:35] <Riddell> iRon: but isn't there a way so you don't have to do that?
[12:35] <Riddell> jpatrick: sure, I can just upload
[12:36] <iRon> Riddell: setting up this property just removes uid=XXX parameter from HAL Mount parameters.
[12:36] <iRon> Riddell: so I could remove this parameter if user tries to mount ntfs partation.
[12:36] <jpatrick> Riddell: so, how do I mount a channel-takeover? Last time I asked freenode staff they told me to talk to the guy (but he's only on every three months)
[12:36] <Jucato> Riddell: could you take a look at bug 119243? I'm guessing it's actually more on debconf's side than on adept's
[12:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 119243 in adept "adept manager & license agreement issue (dup-of: 108185)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119243
[12:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 108185 in adept "Adept crashes if Java license agreement is not accepted" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108185
[12:36] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: what do you awnt to take voer?
[12:37] <jpatrick> lunch time /away
[12:37] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: #kubuntu-es
[12:37] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: why?
[12:37] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: the guy with the access permissions is hardly around
[12:37] <jpatrick> brb
[12:37]  * Hobbsee wonders why every once in a while, he bugs her for access to #kubuntu then...
[12:37] <Hobbsee> [23:37] [Notice] -ChanServ-      Contact: TiMiDo, last seen: 1 week 4 days (7h 40m 56s) ago
[12:39] <Riddell> jpatrick: I can ask the freenode staff to give you ops
[12:40] <Hobbsee> he's alreayd got ops
[12:41] <Riddell> well more ops
[12:41] <Riddell> jpatrick: uploaded, thanks
[12:54] <Jucato> Hobbsee: could you please mark bug 177819 as a wishlist? pretty please? :)
[12:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177819 in debconf "java license agreement not self-evident enough" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177819
[12:54] <Jucato> er wrong one
[12:54] <Jucato> Bug #132758
[12:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132758 in adept "Add screenshots to adept/synaptic" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132758
[12:55] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i could just hit it with the "wontfix" stick
[12:55] <Jucato> hehe it's up to you :)
[12:56] <Jucato> I just triage. I can't change Importance :P
[12:56] <Hobbsee> :P
[12:58] <Riddell> could someone e-mail me?
[12:59] <Hobbsee> Riddell: where at?
[12:59] <Riddell> jr@jriddell. org
[13:00] <Hobbsee> Riddell: sent
[13:00] <Riddell> ooh ooh, it works
[13:01] <Riddell> I can finally drop mutt
[13:01] <jpatrick> Riddell: well, the thing is access to the access command, so I can add more ops
[13:03] <jpatrick> is there another transition in process? kdmtheme ftbts when it pbuilt fine here.
[13:03] <\sh> oh...I didn't know that this LTS discussion was so hot...
[13:03] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: yeah, working on it
[13:04] <Riddell> Hobbsee: what are you doing?
[13:04] <Hobbsee> Riddell: making esound installable again
[13:05] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ie, working around a soyuz bug
[13:05] <Hobbsee> come on queuebuilder...
[13:07] <iRon> Riddell: I could change call of `dbus-message' with direct call of `mount' command for disks which exists in /etc/fstab, but was not automaticaly mounted at startup.
[13:08] <Riddell> iRon: why is that needed?
[13:10] <iRon> Riddell: disks which are described in /etc/fstab without "auto" parameter couldn't be mounted with HAL.
[13:10] <iRon> Riddell: they could be mounted only with `mount' command.
[13:11] <Riddell> iRon: ok, that makes sense
[13:11] <Riddell> iRon: but that's separate from the ntfs issue right?
[13:12] <iRon> Riddell: yes, it is another issue
[13:13] <nosrednaekim> hey, I missed the meeting...are there notes or logs anywhere?
[13:14] <iRon> Riddell: but I think it is related to User Disk Mounting bug..
[13:15] <Riddell> imbrandon: how did you get on with kdebindings?
[13:15] <jpatrick> nosrednaekim: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/12/22/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
[13:15] <nosrednaekim> thanks
[13:17] <Hobbsee> Riddell: do you know who can give a mass giveback?
[13:19] <Riddell> Hobbsee: infinity?
[13:20] <Hobbsee> Riddell: they'll need access to the sql
[13:20] <Hobbsee> actually, lamont probably has contacts, if he shows up
[13:20] <Hobbsee> Riddell: he might be able to do it
[13:34] <toma> Riddell: drop mutt for what?
[13:34] <Riddell> toma: hmm?
[13:35] <Hobbsee> Riddell: what replaced mutt?
[13:35] <toma> [14:00:59] <Riddell> ooh ooh, it works
[13:35] <toma> [14:01:03] <Riddell> I can finally drop mutt
[13:35] <Riddell> toma: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3164
[13:36]  * toma tries to parse Many a year ago
[13:36] <Riddell> several years ago
[13:38] <toma> i should try that on my handheld
[13:51] <nosrednaekim> hey, anyone notice the new attention kubuntu is getting from phoronix? they didn't used to do screenshots of kubuntu
[13:52] <_StefanS_> stdin: you there?
[13:53] <_StefanS_> stdin: any chance the kde4 packages could be built without debug, and leave those as separate packages (not sure if its already like that?)
[13:54] <mhb> man the open source advocate got me heated up
[13:54] <mhb> and it seems nixternal as well
[13:54] <nosrednaekim> mhb: who?
[13:54] <mhb> nosrednaekim: see planet.ubuntu.com
[13:54] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: hey, I'm willing to be artwork contact person. Do I need to be a member?
[13:55] <nosrednaekim> mhb: k
[13:55] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: not especially
[13:55] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: kdmtheme ftbts again (same issue)
[13:55] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: just contact Luis
[13:55] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: I'll do it then :D.... I don't suppose I have much input into what artwork does go in though, right?
[13:56] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: yeah.  publisher isn't fast enough
[13:56] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: thought i was a bit fast
[13:56] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: what about kdmtheme? I saw some emails a few days back...
[13:56] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: still bugging out?
[13:56] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: it's not a problem, just got flooded by emails
[13:56] <jpatrick> _StefanS_: new upstream release
[13:57] <jpatrick> _StefanS_: it fixes the inability to save settings according to changelog
[13:58] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: oh, sorry :S
[13:58] <Hobbsee> jpatrick: forgot about those
[13:58] <jpatrick> Hobbsee: it's not a problem
[13:59] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: what about proper debian/ubuntu support for /etc/kdm.d config ?
[13:59] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: does that part work?
[13:59] <jpatrick> _StefanS_: not sure.
[13:59] <jpatrick> (yet)
[13:59] <_StefanS_> I made a patch a while back,.. maybe it can be used again
[13:59] <_StefanS_> although someone reported bugs :D
[13:59] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: as much as anyone else
[14:00] <_StefanS_> Riddell: knetworkmanager works on your hardy laptop, right?
[14:00] <_StefanS_> Riddell:( wireless and so on.. )
[14:01] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: ok, so how do I get in contact with Luis? (or at least his last name so I can fin him on launchpad)
[14:02] <jpatrick> _StefanS_: I fix upstream fixed it ("QString kdmrc = KGlobal::dirs()->findResource("config", "kdm/kdmrc");"
[14:02] <Riddell> _StefanS_: I've not tested
[14:02] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: Luis de Bethencourt <bethencourt@gmail. com>
[14:03] <nosrednaekim> Riddell:
[14:03] <nosrednaekim> ok
[14:03] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: well thats not the one.. I'm talking about the kdm.d directory.. not kdmrc :)
[14:04] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: the stuff in kdm.d gets sourced upon kdm start
[14:04] <jpatrick> _StefanS_: well, I can't find a mention of kdm.d in the source
[14:05] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: thought so.. we should probably give the ubuntu/debian modifications to upstream.. donno if they would accept it though
[14:05] <_StefanS_> jp
[14:05] <\sh> nixternal, are you involved in foresight linux somehow?
[14:05] <_StefanS_> jp
[14:05] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: is it for hardy?
[14:06] <jpatrick> _StefanS_: yep
[14:06] <_StefanS_> Hm i better move onto hardy then..
[14:06] <_StefanS_> sure hopes wireless works :D
[14:08] <jpatrick> _StefanS_: if we have kde4 in hardy, we can remove kdmtheme (seeing a it's just a backport) :)
[14:08] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: yep true..
[14:09] <_StefanS_> jpatrick: does kde4 have a new login manager yet?
[14:09] <jpatrick> _StefanS_: kdm4?
[14:09] <_StefanS_> I guess?
[14:09] <jpatrick> I've heard it's installable
[14:09] <_StefanS_> havent heard anything about it..
[14:09] <_StefanS_> oh ok
[14:10] <_StefanS_> I cant believe how cool that videodvd:/ kio slave is ..
[14:10] <_StefanS_> Just works.
[14:10]  * nosrednaekim will have to try that
[14:11] <_StefanS_> highly recommendable.. and seems to work even better than k3b itself :D
[14:11] <nosrednaekim> kde4?
[14:11] <_StefanS_> kd3
[14:11] <_StefanS_> its classic stuff man ..
[14:11] <_StefanS_> :D
[14:11] <nosrednaekim> oh<_< well, I use kde4 now XD
[14:12] <_StefanS_> I still find it a bit slow..
[14:12] <_StefanS_> which is understandable
[14:12] <mhb> ooh, threatening is fun
[14:12] <_StefanS_> que?
[14:13] <mhb> "From my point of view, this is a serious situation. In the worst case, it might cause many Kubuntu developers to “jump ship” and look for another distribution they can help with, one that wants to promote KDE and not lower the number of corporate installations by bad marketing for it."
[14:14] <_StefanS_> not many corporate kubuntu's around anyways..
[14:14] <Jucato> who dat comes from?
[14:15] <nosrednaekim> mhb: whose thinking of jumping ship? most of the dev LIKE the idea.
[14:15] <Jucato> our biggest (direct) mass deployment is probably the french gov't... maybe there are others?
[14:15] <mhb> Jucato: either a very wise person or a crazed KDE fanatic. Depends on your point of view.
[14:16] <Jucato> mhb: a KDE fan (not necessarily a fanatic) is always a wise person in my book :)
[14:16] <mhb> nosrednaekim: I am, for one.
[14:16] <Jucato> but I was actually more interested where you got it from? planet ubuntu or ML or somewhere in the moon :)
[14:16]  * _StefanS_ is upgrading to hardy now.
[14:17] <mhb> nixternal's blog post, my response to it.
[14:17] <nosrednaekim> mhb: you are thinking of jumping ship?or you like the idea..
[14:17] <mhb> nosrednaekim: well the bad thing is that there's no ship to jump to
[14:17] <_StefanS_> hehe
[14:18] <_StefanS_> I was about to write that
[14:18] <Jucato> my problem with the whole no LTS issue isn't really the no LTS part...
[14:18] <mhb> nosrednaekim: there's not distro that prefers KDE and has a non-paid version only.
[14:18] <nosrednaekim> mhb: sidux
[14:18] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: what is that? a distro?
[14:18] <Jucato> yeah
[14:18] <Jucato> based on Debian Sid
[14:19] <mhb> hmm, they value freedom too much.
[14:19] <mhb> which kind of means it Does Not Just Work
[14:20] <mhb> my stance is "pressure the maker into releasing the SW as free software, but still maintain the illusion of everything just working"
[14:20] <mhb> because the fact that it works matters
[14:20] <nosrednaekim> yeah..
[14:20] <nosrednaekim> like Dell I suppose
[14:25] <_StefanS_> 875packages available... damn thats quite an update :D
[14:25] <Jucato> hehe yeah :)
[14:25] <Jucato> I'm at 50% downloading all of them :)
[14:25] <Jucato> oh wait, how come I have only 500+...
[14:25] <_StefanS_> oh my
[14:26] <jpatrick> go us
[14:26] <Jucato> ah I think the kde from ppa might have affected that...
[14:26] <_StefanS_> probably..
[14:27] <_StefanS_> ah nice.. I will be done in 7minutes.
[14:27] <Jucato> oh mine is in 1 hour :)
[14:27] <_StefanS_> at 16% now.
[14:27] <Jucato> pfft... you and your crazy bandwidth...
[14:28] <_StefanS_> yes, and I'm only getting 1.4mb/sec
[14:28] <_StefanS_> should be 2mb.
[14:28] <Jucato> pfft
[14:28] <Jucato> now it's 2 hours... jinx...
[14:29] <_StefanS_> hey I can snailmail the cd's to you? might be faster.
[14:29] <Jucato> lol
[14:29] <Jucato> yeah rub it in :D
[14:29] <_StefanS_> harhar
[14:29] <Jucato> I'm sharing a (barely) 512kbps connection w/ my sister right now...
[14:30] <_StefanS_> I think my remote to my tv uses 512kbps.
[14:30] <_StefanS_> oh I just cant stop..
[14:30] <_StefanS_> 51%
[14:31] <_StefanS_> Jucato: http://www.krittersinthemailbox.com/animals/turtles/aspsx133t.jpg
[14:32] <Jucato> grrr!!!
[14:32] <Jucato> adding insult to injury helps :)
[14:32] <_StefanS_> yes.. I'm just laughing my ass of here.
[14:32] <_StefanS_> 81%
[14:32] <_StefanS_> sure hope the update goes well
[14:33] <Jucato> I sure hope it DOESN'T!
[14:33] <Jucato> :P
[14:33] <_StefanS_> Jucato: you know... Its done now.
[14:33] <Jucato> pffft.
[14:33] <Jucato>  I'm gone
[14:34] <_StefanS_> sleep well.
[14:34] <Jucato> no. I'm just leaving the channel to avoid seeing you boast :P
[14:34] <Jucato> actually just "walking away" :D
[14:34] <nosrednaekim> actually, he's just minimizing the window
[14:36] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: you can see him? :)
[14:36] <nosrednaekim> _StefanS_: nah... but I Jucato well enough that I know he is permanantly glued to his computer... which is why he wants an eeepc so badly
[14:36] <nosrednaekim> *I know
[14:37] <jpatrick> eeepc?
[14:37] <_StefanS_> hehe
[14:37] <Jucato> Eee PC
[14:37] <Jucato> actually now I'm more for the N810 (or N800)
[14:37]  * Jucato wants touchscreenies!
[14:37] <nosrednaekim> see what I told you?
[14:37] <_StefanS_> yes the screen is not that amazing on the Eee Pc
[14:39] <Jucato> the only things I have going for the Eee PC over the Nokia tablets are that it's cheaper (at least the 4GB one) and locally available...
[14:39] <nosrednaekim> and it has a decent keyboard, and it runs KDE
[14:39] <Jucato> KDE 3.4 ftw! :)
[14:39] <nosrednaekim> lol
[14:40] <_StefanS_> one amazing thing is that nokia for the first time made something where you can tinker with the source..
[14:40] <Jucato> and uses Firefox and Thunderbird and Pidgin and IceWM! :)
[14:40] <_StefanS_> normally they just make phones that are full of bugs.
[14:40]  * nosrednaekim closes the window on Jucato..
[14:40]  * Jucato is looking forward to Qt/KDE development on the Nokia devices :)
[14:40] <_StefanS_> Jucato: what cpu?
[14:41] <Jucato> oh and did I say that the Eee PC uses KDE 3.4? :D
[14:41] <Jucato> _StefanS_: Nokia N810/N800? ARM
[14:41] <Jucato> you can actually already run KDE on the older N770 and N800
[14:41] <_StefanS_> sure hope you can compile off the x86 hardware for it then..
[14:41] <Jucato> at least some people have
[14:42] <Jucato> and there's a project to make Qt work on the N810's OS (OS2008)
[14:42] <Jucato> http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/
[14:46] <nosrednaekim> since we seems to be of LTS... can we do another rebellion? mp3 support please? just install the fluendo package, and use the xine plugin instead... we HAVE legal codecs... ;)
[14:46] <_StefanS_> wow that upgrade went pretty smooth.
[14:47] <mhb> nosrednaekim: is that open-source?
[14:48] <mhb> or free software?
[14:48] <nosrednaekim> mhb: fluendo is, yes.
[14:49] <nosrednaekim> mhb: at least its legally liscenced
[14:49] <Jucato> but fluendo uses gstreamer, and KDE mostly uses xine
[14:49] <_StefanS_> but gstreamer is supposed to be superior to xine, right ?
[14:49] <Jucato> (not from what I heard.. but...)
[14:49] <nosrednaekim> _StefanS_: and GNOME is supposed to be superior to KDE
[14:49] <Jucato> that's kinda irrelevant if the app is tied to xine anyway :)
[14:49] <_StefanS_> nosrednaekim: nah from what I know gstreamer is not tied to gnome directly..
[14:50] <Jucato> I think he was making an analogy :)
[14:50] <_StefanS_> well I think i saw a comparison somewhere
[14:50] <Jucato> something like "gstreamer is supposed to be superior to xine just as gnome is supposed to be superior to kde"
[14:51] <nosrednaekim> Yup.... :D
[14:51] <Jucato> aaanyway.. :)
[14:51] <_StefanS_> Jucato: got it already
[14:51] <Jucato> yeah, just liked to state the obvious while waiting for updates to download :)
[14:51] <Jucato> humor me :P
[14:52] <_StefanS_> seems like the upgrade tossed out the entire kde
[14:52] <mhb> _StefanS_: no, it's not
[14:52] <mhb> well it's not now
[14:52] <_StefanS_> mhb: ok, I must have misunderstood something then
[14:52] <Jucato> mhb: btw, you are still assigned to the bug for adept's crash/error handler. so you might have received an updated I made to the bug
[14:53] <mhb> Jucato: I have, I'll read it
[14:53] <Jucato> and probalby reassign it to manchicken :P
[15:00] <nosrednaekim> haven't seen manchicken around..
[15:00]  * mhb neither
[15:01] <_StefanS_> ah there's a kdm-kde4 package
[15:01] <Jucato> I saw him yesterday.... just the nick
[15:02] <Jucato> [Notice] -SeenServ- I last saw manchicken (n=manchick@adsl-76-195-223-78.dsl.chmpil.sbcglobal.net) 15h 32m 22s ago, quiting: Remote closed the connection
[15:04] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I thought you uploaded the debdiff to hardy for k3b ??
[15:05] <Jucato> hm.. I suddenly wonder about something... are openSUSE and Fedora going to use KDE 4 by default in their next release (which is also around our release quarter)? Or are they going to offer two sets of KDE's too?
[15:05] <_StefanS_> probably
[15:06] <Jucato> hm... probably to which question? :)
[15:06] <_StefanS_> kde3+4 in those distros
[15:07] <Jucato> oh I meant a release/CD with KDE 3 only and another release/CD with KDE4 and KDE3 mixed?
[15:07] <Jucato> oh well...
[15:08] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: even now Suse has mixed kde3/4
[15:08] <_StefanS_> read up on their wikis
[15:08] <nosrednaekim> I think
[15:08] <Jucato> that's not what I meant though.... anyway :)
[15:08] <Jucato> nvm :)
[15:13] <_StefanS_> Riddell: wireless works in hardy... atleast for my intel 4965n
[15:14] <_StefanS_> hey someone fixed the backlight keys :D
[15:14] <_StefanS_> gotta run
[15:23]  * nosrednaekim can't wait to do support for hardy..... uhhg ;)
[15:24] <Jucato> split -b 2000M Jucato
[15:24] <Jucato> (yeah, I'm only 4GB total... :P)
[15:24]  * mhb can't wait to find a nice girl under a mistletoe
[15:25] <Jucato> :D
[15:25] <Hobbsee> heh :)
[15:25]  * Jucato puts a mistletoe about Hobbsee... there ya go :)
[15:26] <Hobbsee> hah
[15:26] <Hobbsee> a little far away, methinks
[15:26] <Jucato> he didn't say "nearby" :)
[15:26] <mhb> I said "find", though :o)
[15:26] <toma> he did say 'nice' ;-)
[15:27] <mhb> well toma surely deservers coal
[15:27] <Jucato> lol
[15:27] <mhb> deserves
[15:27] <mhb> there's a bad side to planet syndication
[15:28] <mhb> if you get syndicated, everyone'll rad it
[15:28] <mhb> read it
[15:28] <mhb> but if you don't, nobody will
[15:28] <Jucato> solution: syndicate only a particular feed :)
[15:28]  * toma expects a long pointy stick somewhere
[15:28] <mhb> Jucato: that's what I do
[15:28]  * Hobbsee is not nice
[15:28]  * Hobbsee impales all stupid customers with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™
[15:28] <mhb> unfortunately, when I write something that should not belong to the planet, noone'll read it :o)
[15:28] <Jucato> well, the LongPointyStick is testament to that :)
[15:29] <Jucato> mhb: that's my problem too :)
[15:29] <\sh> what doesn't bleong to the planet? damn...no, not this topic again ,-)
[15:29]  * Hobbsee only writes ubuntu planet related stuff
[15:29] <Hobbsee> \sh: hahahaha :)
[15:29] <Hobbsee> \sh: nice call
[15:29] <Jucato> bwahah :)
[15:30] <mhb> my gloomy mood of doom
[15:30] <toma> who maintains kubuntu planet btw?
[15:30] <mhb> there's no such thing, AFAIK.
[15:30] <toma> time to put a long pointy stick in that direction
[15:30] <toma> http://planet.kubuntu.de/
[15:30] <\sh> toma, planet.kubuntu.de is just me, I'll remove it on 31st
[15:31] <\sh> toma, because I can't pointy stick anyone from kubuntu.de
[15:31] <toma> allright, i enjoyed reading it
[15:31] <toma> better than planet ubuntu
[15:32] <mhb> hmm
[15:32] <\sh> toma, if there is a way of a dns record to point to my ip address..there is a little chance to let it not die ;)
[15:32] <mhb> wasn't there a conflict between kubuntu.de and kubuntu-de.org ?
[15:32] <Hobbsee> \sh: tried jpatrick?
[15:32] <Hobbsee> awit, that's -es
[15:32] <mhb> or something
[15:32] <Hobbsee> mhb: ubuntu and kubuntu de, iirc
[15:32] <\sh> nope...
[15:33] <\sh> between kubuntu.de and kubuntu-de.orgh
[15:33] <\sh> right
[15:33] <Hobbsee> ah
[15:33] <\sh> kubuntu-de.org is the official point of contact for kubuntu germany
[15:33] <\sh> kubuntu.de is AMUs page
[15:34] <\sh> and amus domain
[15:34] <mhb> I just thought you could bind them when you have access to planet.kubuntu.de
[15:35] <toma> does it matter that it does not matter for me on which domain the kubuntu planet is ?
[15:35] <\sh> mhb, well, when someone is pointing planet.kubuntu-whatever to this ip ... there is a little work to apache2 conf for publishing it...but right now, the state of kubuntu.de is to vague...and I will remove the planet from this domain....
[15:36] <mhb> toma: I just hate conflicts, that's all
[15:36] <\sh> it's important to me...there are some things which are not clear to me regarding amu
[15:36] <mhb> conflicts ruin everything
[15:38]  * \sh would like to see something like planet.kubuntu.org as official representation
[15:38] <toma> +1
[15:40] <\sh> well, and I need to use a standalone feedreader with the possibility to filter some feeds from planet...I'm really bored to read crap of mr. rhodes...
[15:40] <\sh> ok I'm writing some crap too...but at least I don't put it into "Important Words with no clue"
[15:41] <imbrandon> Riddell: pong, great to read your using alpine, i thought i was alone :) anyhow yea kdebindings-kde4 is comming along nicely, i got tired and fell asleep lastnight before i got done but i can finish it up today
[15:43] <mhb> ryanakca and nixternal should have gotten a mail from me
[15:50] <santiago-ve> Guys, is there a kde4 CD, with hardy's architecture?.... i mean... kde4 on hardy :p
[15:51] <mhb> no
[15:51] <mhb> santiago-ve: we want that ASAP, but the CD build system is somehow blocked
[15:51] <mhb> Riddell's words
[15:56] <santiago-ve> >.<
[16:00] <ryanakca> mhb: got it
[16:01] <ryanakca> mhb: ok, I'll get back to work on it :)
[16:09] <mhb> ryanakca: I was counting on you
[16:09] <ryanakca> :)
[16:09]  * ryanakca wonders how he'll modify the theme so that it works in IE
[16:10] <nosrednaekim> lol
[16:10] <nosrednaekim> must you?
[16:10] <ryanakca> see, it's perfect in FF, Konqueror, etc... just not that blasted IE or that really obscuure gnome browser... herm
[16:11] <nosrednaekim> can';t you put one of those annoying things saying "This page viewed best with Firefox or Konqueror" and have the rest grabled ?:D
[16:11] <nosrednaekim> *garbled
[16:12]  * ryanakca guesses there's some drupal module out there that could probably just serve text to IE users... no images, fancy colors, etc....
[16:13] <jpatrick> someone going to approve the new member soon?
[16:13] <ryanakca> stdin?
[16:14] <ryanakca> or wait, he got his membership methought...
[16:14] <jpatrick> the ones from today's meeting
[16:14] <ryanakca> oh, wow. oops...
[16:14]  * ryanakca has been falling behind in *buntu stuff :)
[16:15] <jpatrick> ryanakca: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/12/22/%23ubuntu-meeting.html :)
[16:17] <mhb> jpatrick: someone is pretty limited word here
[16:17] <mhb> I cannot do it, for instance :o)
[16:37]  * mhb likes the Feather wallpaper more and more
[16:38] <mhb> it's really good, the pattern is not as chaotic as the other oxygen wallpapers, and it's not too bright ... dark blue goes well with the desktop
[16:43]  * santiago-ve is building soprano again
[16:43] <santiago-ve> xD
[16:44] <mhb> please please please please let's consider it
[17:01] <nixternal> Riddell: I just created the debdiff to link you to, do you want me to upload kdelibs?
[17:02] <santiago-ve> nixternal, got time?
[17:03]  * Jucato waves to nixternal and jjesse
[17:04] <nixternal> in a bit I will...still wiping my eyes from waking up
[17:04] <jjesse> morning
[17:04] <jjesse> well afternoon now ;)
[17:04] <jjesse> hello Jucato
[17:04] <nixternal> mhb: I love the passwords you come up with
[17:04] <jjesse> anyone know in kde4 how to set it so knetworkmanager always starts up?
[17:04] <Jucato> heh :)
[17:08] <jjesse> nixternal: did you wake up extra early for the mtg and then go back to bed?
[17:09] <Jucato> he did :)
[17:12] <jjesse> Jucato: thanks for the patch, will upload it hopefully today
[17:12] <Jucato> )
[17:12] <Jucato> :)
[17:12] <jjesse> hrmm need to figure out how to get konverstation and kde4 to do the on-screen notifications
[17:12] <Jucato> sorry that´s all I could do for now...
[17:12] <jjesse> so i don't have to keep switching windows
[17:12] <Jucato> OSD?
[17:13] <Jucato> or Settings -> COnfigure Notifications?
[17:13] <jjesse> yeah osd
[17:14] <jjesse> it is set for on and doesn't work
[17:14] <Jucato> oh..
[17:14] <Jucato> #konversation perhaps? :)
[17:17] <Jucato> oooh just upgraded to hardy! now adept updater no longer has the Welcome screen? nice!
[17:18] <nixternal> ya, it gets right down to business now
[17:18] <nixternal> which is nice, but it still hops around with the resizing widgets
[17:19] <Jucato> goood good
[17:19]  * Jucato thinks he can mark another bug/wish as Fix Released
[17:20]  * Jucato adds Tonio to the brave people who wade through Adept´s code
[17:21] <jjesse> seriously one of these days i just need to finish documentation for that sucker
[17:21]  * jjesse is installing hardy in a vm right now
[17:22] <Jucato> it´s in a vm too :)
[17:22] <jjesse> i brought one of work's laptops home for the holidays so i could do lots of work with vms
[17:22] <Jucato> nixternal: troy seems to have misunderstood
[17:23] <jjesse> if i installed kde4 from the kubuntu packages, will i run into lots of problems when i try to build from source?
[17:23] <Jucato> shouldn´t. it all depends on where you install and your env vars
[17:26] <Jucato> nixternal: er.. s/troy/wade/
[17:26] <jjesse> do i have to install qt and all that from source as well?
[17:27] <Jucato> nope
[17:27] <Jucato> most probably you only have to start w/ kdelibs, unless something that´s in kdesupport is not provided by our packages
[17:27] <Jucato> (wrong version, etc)
[17:28] <jjesse> ok i'll start with kdelibs then :)
[17:28] <Jucato> I´m pretty sure that in hardy, the stuff in kdesupport is mostly covered by our packages
[17:29] <Jucato> and probably already installed if you installed our kde4 packages
[17:30] <jjesse> even if i'm running gutsy do you think i don't have to do kdesupport?
[17:30] <jjesse> and will i run into problems running kde4 as my primary user ?
[17:32] <Jucato> I think you need kdesupport in gutsy because of an older version of soprano... maybe nixternal can confirm
[17:33] <nixternal> Jucato: it is backported
[17:33] <Jucato> gutsy-backports then?
[17:33] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/
[17:33] <nixternal> also there are the updated libsopranos for gutsy I believe
[17:33] <nixternal> x86
[17:33] <Jucato> last I checked it was .98 and kde4 required .99 iirc... can´t recall :P
[17:34] <jjesse> what am i supposed to do w/ that link?
[17:34]  * jjesse is stupid sometimes
[17:36] <Jucato> hm... nixternal did you notice that updater seems to still try to load packages, build dependency trees, etc. before fetching updates?
[17:36] <nixternal> nope, told you before I minimize it as soon as it opens
[17:36] <Jucato> haha :)
[17:37] <Jucato> but you still have to confirm to apply the changes :)
[17:39] <nixternal> ya, I will maximize it after a minute or 2 :)
[17:39] <Jucato> smart workflow. I like :)
[17:40] <nixternal> hehe
[17:40] <Jucato> oh this is going to be a very very long day...
[17:40] <Jucato> sunday
[17:43] <jjesse> nixternal: was that link directed to me?
[17:52] <jjesse> hrmm error in system settings on hardy -- need libpyhon2.5.so
[17:54] <Jucato> jjesse: where particularly?
[17:54] <jjesse> dispaly settings
[17:55] <jjesse> click on monitor and display, gettin error "The module Monitor & Display could not be loaded"
[17:55] <Jucato> worksforme :/
[17:55] <jjesse> "Library files for "libpython2.5.so" not found in paths
[17:55] <Jucato> sounds similar to a bug in gutsy before :)
[17:55] <jjesse> yeah it does
[17:56] <Jucato> it´s working for me though...
[17:57] <jjesse> intersting i download thed "current" daily-live, did an install and then applied updates
[17:57] <Jucato> ah I upgraded from gutsy
[18:06] <jjesse> did nixternal do a upgrade as well?
[18:07] <Jucato> way back pre-alpha1 I think
[18:10] <jjesse> ah, just curious as to what i need to do to solve this "bug"
[18:10] <Jucato> is it just me or are we not using the name for a group of herons for our hardy releases?
[18:10] <jjesse> we are not
[18:11] <Jucato> oooh
[18:11] <Jucato> that´s new :)
[18:22] <Jucato> hm... sudo apt-get build-dep adept returns E: Build-dependencies for adept could not be satisfied (hardy)
[18:37] <Riddell> nixternal: yeah, go ahead and upload
[18:37] <nixternal> OK, I am running another test build really quick and want to see something with the man pages and then I will upload
[18:39] <Jucato> nixternal: are you able to download adept´s build-dep?
[18:40] <Jucato> well nvm.. I´ll just check later...
[18:40] <Jucato> bbl
[18:50] <\sh> nixternal, tell me, are you involved in foresight linux development or something?
[18:50] <nixternal> interesting, KDE 4 complains that xine-lib 1.1.8 was found on the system, however it has problems playing short sounds and should consider upgrading to 1.1.9 or above
[18:50] <nixternal> there is no 1.1.9
[18:50] <nixternal> \sh: a bit yes
[18:50] <Riddell> it's in beta I believe
[18:51] <nixternal> heh, I can't find it...I was going to create a beta package to test on my desktop
[18:51] <Riddell> hmm, maybe it's in svn
[18:52] <nixternal> mercurial it seems
[18:52] <nixternal> ahh, so debian hosts it
[18:52] <\sh> nixternal, wanted to take a look...what basement does foresight has? (not the package manager ;))
[18:53] <nixternal> w00t...debian has 1.1.9 hg check out in experimental...that was easy
[18:53] <nixternal> they are very small, their basement is currently a closet, but group of people though...a few of them are locals, so that is how I have come to know it
[18:54] <nixternal> they got sick of me making fun of them so they bombarded me with KDE questions
[18:54] <nixternal> they only have 2 active KDE developers for foresight, and both are from PC Linux OS
[18:54] <\sh> nixternal, and distro wise? was it more fedora or suse or debian based?
[18:55] <nixternal> Riddell: we have libxine2 in our repos :)
[18:55] <iRon> Failed with Hardy Alpha 2 installation on my laptop :-(
[18:55] <nixternal> ok, maybe we don't
[18:55] <nixternal> yet at least
[18:55] <Riddell> nixternal: does that help?
[18:55] <nixternal> I will grab the .dsc and build it to test it
[18:56] <iRon> Keyboard not working during install...
[18:56] <iRon> It looks like it locks after Synaptics Touchpad module loaded
[19:05] <\sh> nixternal, so I see you need some help with packaging kde goodies for foresight? ;)
[19:06] <nixternal> not as much as Kubuntu does :)
[19:08] <jjesse> Riddell: i just downloaded the current daily live for kubuntu and installed an now when i go into system sesttings -> display it complains about libpython.so.5 missing
[19:08] <jjesse> any help?
[19:08] <nixternal> hrmm
[19:08] <Riddell> jjesse: I've not looked into that
[19:08] <Riddell> try installing libpython2.5-dev
[19:09] <jjesse> ok will do
[19:09] <Jucato> nixternal: are you able to sudo apt-get build-dep adept?
[19:10] <jjesse> couldn't find package libpython2.5-dev
[19:10] <Jucato> or anyone on hardy for that matter :)
[19:11] <nixternal> Jucato: yes
[19:11] <Jucato> hm.. strange... :(
[19:14] <\sh> python2.5-dev?
[19:14] <jjesse> ah that did sorry i'm pretty retarted today
[19:14] <nosrednaekim> I think we need a press release to the kde-planet... Wade kinda confused some people I think.
[19:14] <jjesse> with his kubuntu being lts with 4.0?
[19:14] <jjesse> just read his post
[19:14] <nosrednaekim> yeah...
[19:15] <\sh> well, the press release should be different from the press release available on the ML
[19:16] <nosrednaekim> yes
[19:16] <\sh> the decision: because we want kde4 for kubuntu 8.04 doesn't make sense for the outside people
[19:16] <jjesse> \sh:
[19:16] <jjesse> doh
[19:16] <jjesse> sorry about that
[19:16] <jjesse> it doesn't make sense for some inside people either
[19:17] <\sh> jjesse, I'm not caring about insider...but knowing how management decisions are working, a different explanation is needed
[19:17] <\sh> I just read the news on heise.de (german IT new portal)
[19:18] <\sh> it's so...weired
[19:21] <nixternal> interesting, the manpages just built fine, and I didn't do anything
[19:21] <\sh> "The decision to not have a LTS release for Kubuntu, and therefore diverting from our GNOME Daughter Ubuntu, was made, because our developers are concentrating on KDE4. Because we don't have enough manpower for providing 5 years support for kde 3.5.x , the developer community of Kubuntu decided to divert from Ubuntu and not releasing an LTS"...
[19:22] <nixternal> s/5/3
[19:22] <Jucato> wth?
[19:22] <nixternal> desktop only gets 3
[19:22] <\sh> nixternal, right :)
[19:22] <Jucato> where did that come from?
[19:22] <\sh> Jucato, that was just me
[19:22] <Jucato> ah ok :)
[19:22] <santiago-ve> c ya guys
[19:22] <nixternal> s/Daughter/counterpart or porject, something other than daughter
[19:23] <nixternal> later santiago-ve
[19:23] <Jucato> it´s kinda not true that it was the Kubuntu community who decided it :)
[19:23] <nosrednaekim> sister..
[19:23] <nixternal> ya, it was a Canonical decision
[19:23] <\sh> Jucato, developer community...not the user community
[19:23] <nixternal> I must have deleted everything from ~/kde/src/KDE
[19:24] <\sh> actually canonical is right...
[19:24] <Jucato> \sh: either way, we/they didn´t :)
[19:24] <Jucato> Canonical/TB did :)
[19:24] <Jucato> what we decided was to go along for the ride :D
[19:24] <nixternal> well, it wasn't our decision, so there is no use crying over spilt milk
[19:25] <nixternal> we can either a) give up, tuck our tails between our legs, and move on, or we can b) step up and not only show that we are worthy, but also show why we are the best
[19:25] <nixternal> if you don't like (b), then I suggest you look elsewhere, as I am afraid any other attitude will be nothing more than poisonous to our cause and our goals
[19:25] <nosrednaekim> and be a huge help to the KDE upstream...
[19:26] <nixternal> I am sure Riddell's goal, as well as our goal, should still be to create the greatest KDE distro available, and now we pretty much have a clean slate in order to work from
[19:26] <nixternal> true, there are some negatives, but at the same time there are just as many positives
[19:27]  * \sh thinks Canonical/sabdfl/Canonical Management is correct in not letting Kubuntu grow past Ubuntu...1. there is no commitment even Mark was telling so in Wiesbaden, LinuxTag 2006..., 2. there are not enough paid resource for providing support for KUbuntu/KDE Desktop..and 3. Riddell is at his limits and 4. GNOME has a market share in other parts != Europe
[19:27] <nixternal> and if you think negative constantly, then you are poisonous as well...the great thing about the Linux community is the amount of choices one has
[19:28] <nixternal> so with that said, you either have the choice to a) stay, help out, and keep Kubuntu rocking, or b) go elsewhere as the choices are plenty
[19:28] <\sh> nixternal, there is no negative feeling...it's business :)
[19:28] <nixternal> bad business, but business nonetheless
[19:28] <nosrednaekim> no.... open source is not business.
[19:29] <nosrednaekim> because for the most part we aren't getting paid.
[19:29] <nixternal> the one bad thing though that this decision does, is it kills my marketing plans I have been working on for my master thesis and business plan incorporating Kubuntu
[19:29] <nosrednaekim> we have no incentive to stay other than the fact that we enjoy it
[19:29] <nixternal> but I will act like nothing has changed when doing my final studies :)
[19:29] <nixternal> just don't tell my professors
[19:29] <jjesse> too late already did
[19:29] <nixternal> oh man
[19:30] <nixternal> that means I have to start over
[19:30] <jjesse> hrm when you install ubuntu from the live cd there is a reboot button... why not for kubuntu?
[19:31] <nosrednaekim> whats the use of a reboot button on a liveCD?
[19:31] <uga> jjesse: ubuntu crashes and gets unstable now and then, so you need rebooting. Kubuntu never does so ;)
[19:31] <uga> (joking)
[19:31] <jjesse> sorry that thought wasn't complete... when i finish installing
[19:31] <nosrednaekim> oh..
[19:31] <\sh> nosrednaekim, open source is business...a very special one...you can win, if the volunteers are loving you as a company, or you lose, if the volunteers are going to someone else who they love...
[19:31] <uga> jjesse: you'll get a reboot button on the final install
[19:32] <jjesse> uga: not in kubuntu there is only "exit install"
[19:33] <uga> jjesse: then you'll have options
[19:33] <uga> oh, exit install???
[19:33] <uga> that's the live CD still, before finishing the install!
[19:33] <uga> jjesse: you're running off the live CD still
[19:33] <uga> you'll get a reboot option on the final INSTALL
[19:33] <jjesse> i think that is what it is called in kubuntu, after you finish the install for ubuntu there is a reboot option that i can click on to reboot hte system
[19:33] <jjesse> but don't for kubuntu
[19:34] <uga> sao just select it, and see what it does =)
[19:35] <nixternal> it just exits ubiquity
[19:35] <jjesse> correct it should reboot
[19:36] <nixternal> I will take a look at it and possibly create a patch providing the option to reboot and see what JR says
[19:38] <jjesse> hrm still having problems with the dispaly module in system settings
[19:39] <\sh> nixternal, lol
[19:39] <\sh> the virtual world is so weired ;)
[19:41] <\sh> now I'm twittering with nixternal ... /me wants to go back to web0.1 were html was html and not photoshop cut outs
[19:41] <nixternal> hehe
[19:42] <nixternal> I use Gimp cutouts, not photoshop
[19:42] <nixternal> I don't know how to use photoshop :)
[19:43] <nixternal> one good thing too about KDE 4, we can get rid of freedesktop.org patches for menu, desktop, man, and then some finally :)
[19:44] <nosrednaekim> and we can finally include krita!
[19:44] <nosrednaekim> :D
[19:45] <nixternal> how is krita in kde4? I thought I had issues building it recently
[19:45] <nixternal> maybe I am mistaken
[19:45] <\sh> well, all other people need to wait for a working kde4 with the version number 4.3.x ,-)
[19:45] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: works fine...
[19:45] <nixternal> 4.1 will be an improvement, so 4.3 is a little overexagerated
[19:45] <nosrednaekim> little slow though
[19:46] <\sh> but hopefully kde4 will bring a working imap mail client .... which is not crashing all the time when you have a lot of mails in your imap folder
[19:46] <Tm_T> \sh: shame, I already have one
[19:46] <nixternal> \sh: don't count on it any time soon...last I heard kdepim is pretty much just a direct copy currently...but I haven't been following their roadmap
[19:47] <nixternal> I am considering to Alpine since Riddell's blog post, man I loved pine and hated mutt
[19:47]  * nosrednaekim likes kmail.
[19:47]  * Tm_T is happy Kmail user
[19:47] <Tm_T> even with tons of mails
[19:47]  * nosrednaekim uses pop though
[19:48] <nixternal> I do too, but I like the ability of throwing Alpine on my server in screen mode so I can check email from anywhere, with any machine
[19:48] <Tm_T> I do use pop and imap
[19:48] <nixternal> and it is one less process hog running in the background :)
[19:48] <\sh> Tm_T, subscribe to ubuntu-bugs and try to delete 53k mails ;)
[19:48] <nixternal> \sh: hahaha, no doubt
[19:48] <nixternal> try to delete 1000 emails
[19:49] <nixternal> all the lines go through, and a couple of minutes later, if it didn't crash, your emails are gone
[19:49] <Tm_T> \sh: hmmmm, I do delete few hundred mails sometimes thru imap
[19:49] <\sh> well...evolution is not better...so I stay with claws or thunderbird
[19:49] <nixternal> honestly, I think evolution is worse, but I used to love evolution back when the Ximian desktop came out, and Evolution was brand new
[19:49] <nixternal> there was nothing like it at that time
[19:50] <\sh> hmmm...nice some bottles of water, which were standing on my balcony just explode
[19:50] <nixternal> the Ximian days were really the last days that I enjoyed using Gnome, but seeing as I have been using KDE since its initial release, it is hard for me to realy get into another DE
[19:55] <\sh> nixternal, hehe...redcarpet was promising..but gnome itself was far away from the quality of kde these days...:(
[19:55] <txwikinger> those days are now?
[19:56] <nixternal> I never really used Windows by the time 1996 rolled around...jsut 3.1 really in the military...so seeing KDE compared to 3.1, I was hooked from the get go
[19:56] <txwikinger> s/are/or/
[19:56] <nixternal> I guess that is an advantage at why I view KDE so highly
[19:57] <\sh> txwikinger, I'm now using both DEs depending on my mood..right now I have this very nice mac4lin theme for gnome and I love it, because I can fool all mac users ;)
[19:58]  * nosrednaekim did that to kde
[19:58] <nosrednaekim> I fooled people into thinking it was vista too.. that really did look nice too..
[19:58] <txwikinger> why would I want to make my desktop look like a mac?
[20:00] <\sh> because people told me "fck...why do you run mac os X on a normal pc"...and I was laughing out loud...because those guys were censored
[20:01] <blizzzek> hi
[20:02] <txwikinger> it would be better they would use *ubuntu instead of using foul language ;)
[20:03] <\sh> those people shouldn't use a computer at all...
[20:04] <txwikinger> well.. I think a lot of people at my workplace should not use computers... however unfortunately management disagrees with that
[20:05] <nixternal> so, I had a choice today, I could either purchase an OLPC and give one to a child somewhere in the world, or I could donate the funds to provide food for millions of children around the world, and the price difference was only $50 more, so I went with feeding the kids food, that way there they will be able to survive another day, and who knows, maybe someone got them a laptop to use too :)
[20:05] <Riddell> millions from just your donation?
[20:06] <txwikinger> nixternal: if they would not throw away all this food in UK supermarkets, but distribute it fairly from the beginning , there would not be any starvation
[20:08] <\sh> hmm...I think if gene roddenberry was the president of the world, we wouldn't have any problems at all....money won't be needed...information for everyone, food replicators for millions of human beings...
[20:08] <txwikinger> And millions of contributors for *ubuntu :D
[20:09] <\sh> but this is all a dream...even marx failed with this...he just forgot the human being, being selfish ..
[20:10] <mhb> \sh: well I'm sure you wouldn't fool a Mac user
[20:10] <txwikinger> well marx did not give an substitution for selfishness
[20:10] <mhb> Groucho?
[20:10] <\sh> mhb, I did already...
[20:10] <mhb> \sh: I can tell the system by looking at the fonts
[20:10] <mhb> not at the font "type", but how they are rendered
[20:11] <\sh> mhb, most people won't recognize the difference...they just want to see the scale plugin and the drop shadows...
[20:11] <\sh> mhb, but yes, a pro can see the difference
[20:13] <mhb> soo, are we planning something?
[20:13] <mhb> you know, for ...
[20:13] <mhb> something
[20:14] <mhb> soon
[20:14] <nixternal> not millions from just my donation, if that was so, I think Kubuntu would be financially backed :)
[20:14] <nixternal> txwikinger: there is a group here in Chicago that does just that
[20:15]  * \sh is repairing some old desktop pcs...and hopefully they are finding their way to the african continent
[20:15] <txwikinger> nixternal: Getting rid of waste of food thrown away by supermarkets?
[20:15] <nixternal> as long as they make it to kids who won't send me spam saying they have 50,000,000 dollars and need my bank account info..I am tire of sending them my private bank account info :p
[20:16] <nixternal> txwikinger: yes
[20:16] <\sh> nixternal, lol
[20:16] <nixternal> supermarkets have a shelf life shorter than the actual food product's shelf life, so it is all good food
[20:16] <\sh> I make sure, that those PCs can only run Linux :)
[20:17] <txwikinger> nixternal: Here in UK there is a organisation of dumpster diver who don't buy any food anymore
[20:17] <nixternal> but the stingy ass supermarkets would rather throw it away than give it away...so this group started their little thing to go around to supermarkets and purchase at lower than wholesale the food they would throw out
[20:17] <nixternal> stingy? stengy
[20:17] <nixternal> I still don't think I spelled that right
[20:17] <nixternal> stin-jeee :p
[20:17] <nosrednaekim> it was right the first I think
[20:17] <nosrednaekim> *first time
[20:18] <txwikinger> well.. I know at least one chain here who give the stuff away for free on the last day of it being on date
[20:18] <mhb> so I repeat:
[20:18] <mhb> are we planning anything?
[20:18] <txwikinger> but only tocharities
[20:18] <nixternal> ahh, it is stingy
[20:18] <nosrednaekim> mhb: world domination?
[20:18] <jpatrick> today's meeting's minutes: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~jpatrick/minutes/ (anyone's interested)
[20:18] <mhb> nosrednaekim: well I meant something less dramatic and more short term
[20:19] <mhb> you know, it has something to do with the birthday of Jesus
[20:19] <txwikinger> cool jpatrick
[20:19] <nixternal> jpatrick: that is nice
[20:19] <nosrednaekim> thanks
[20:19] <jpatrick> no problem, just trying out LaTeX
[20:20] <toma> jpatrick: looks great and accurate as well
[20:20] <nixternal> I still don't get the "Artwork Team" as it isn't an Artwork Team
[20:20] <txwikinger> mbh: the only thing BBC had to say today about it was that you can drive 1200 cars for a whole year for the co2 all the turkey cooking produces
[20:20] <\sh> mhb, not everyone has something todo with this day...but I need to prepare the tree tomorrow morning...before my wife is coming back
[20:20] <nixternal> I guess I will find out more next year
[20:20] <jpatrick> thanks everyone :)
[20:21] <mhb> hmm, does at least one person know what I'm hinting at?
[20:21] <nixternal> TOMA!!! didn't see you in here lurking :)
[20:21] <nixternal> toma: someone wants a stellar IMAP client in KDE 4 :) cough*mailody*cough
[20:21] <\sh> putting "silent night" on the kubuntu.org page as midi file, embedded?
[20:22] <toma> nixternal: Hiya! I'm devide my time between #mandriva, #debian-qt-kde and #kubuntu-devel (at least i try)
[20:22] <nixternal> you rock!
[20:22] <\sh> mandriva is still living? I thought they were closing the doors after they shutdown the german community site
[20:22] <toma> nixternal: everything is so slow today
[20:23] <toma> \sh: i'm not getting mandriva completely, there is just one user channel and one development-sort-of channel
[20:23] <nixternal> ya it is...it is my dad's b-day, so we are going out tonight, and then I just found out, there are going to be a million screaming kids over....so I am trying to come up with excuses right now :)
[20:23] <txwikinger> migranes?
[20:23] <nixternal> something better
[20:24] <nixternal> I am going to suddenly feel ill after dinner possibly :)
[20:24] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: school?
[20:24] <txwikinger> An important exam tomorrowmorning
[20:24] <nixternal> finished the semester on wednesday
[20:24] <txwikinger> You going to give food to the homeless
[20:24] <nixternal> that is tuesday I think
[20:25] <nixternal> hehe, looks like I am going to be busy on tuesday
[20:25] <nixternal> yes, it is tuesday
[20:25] <nixternal> I will help serve food from 10am to 4pm, and then go to my brothers for the rest of the evening
[20:26] <nixternal> or maybe it is 12 to 4..can't remember
[20:26] <\sh> nixternal, I know what you can do to serve people...just upload wine 0.9.51 for me ;)
[20:28] <\sh> nixternal, http://www.sourcecode.de/~shermann/wine/0.9.51/ you'll find latest source packages :) thx :)
[20:29] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: wait... you are doing artwork representative?
[20:35] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: it isn't artwork, it is the Ubuntu Derivative team
[20:36] <fox-ve> jpatrick: ping
[20:36] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: uh oh.... Riddell told me it was still open and I volunteered for it..
[20:36] <nosrednaekim> nixternal: and already sent the guy an email
[20:36] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: so did I, but if you want it, it is all yours :)
[20:37] <nixternal> I quit that team recently because there was no activity
[20:37] <nosrednaekim> yeah, i'll do it.
[20:37] <nixternal> k, thanks
[20:40]  * txwikinger misses all the bowl
[20:40]  * txwikinger misses all the bowls
[20:41]  * \sh needs some nicotine
[20:41] <txwikinger> nicotine is overvalued
[20:43]  * mhb needs some snuggling
[20:45]  * txwikinger wonders why Rodeo riders have hockey goalie helmets now
[20:45]  * \sh sends txwikinger some of this http://wittenburg-web.de/v/combots/p1040533.jpg.html
[20:46] <txwikinger> Is that ganja in the back?
[20:47] <\sh> txwikinger, lol..no
[20:47] <txwikinger> there was a case of homegrown stuff in magistrate court on Friday
[20:48] <\sh> txwikinger, only liquid drugs were used yesterday :)
[20:48] <cheguevara> haha looks like it :P
[20:48] <\sh> end of business for us at operations...closing down of DC Zafas :)
[20:48]  * nosrednaekim is innocent and takes that to mean cough syrup...
[20:49] <txwikinger> nosrednaekim: It is medicine against congestions
[20:50] <nosrednaekim> <_<
[20:51] <\sh> hmm...admins with a drinking problem ... http://wittenburg-web.de/v/combots/p1040531.jpg.html
[20:52] <\sh> damn..that's me...:(
[20:54] <txwikinger> Recognition is the first step of tackling the problem ;)
[20:57] <nixternal> Riddell: kdelibs5 uploaded
[21:16] <mhb> hmm, I need a silly advice
[21:16] <nixternal> hey, I am great at giving silly advice
[21:16] <mhb> how can you build a KDE4/Qt4 widget which has columns, but is not a treeview or a tableview?
[21:17] <mhb> it behaves much like a QTreeView, but without the tree hierarchy
[21:18] <nixternal> hrmm...QListWidget? Can you add columns to it?
[21:18] <nixternal> yes you can
[21:18] <nixternal> modelColumn
[21:18] <nixternal> I used one for a project that would have an icon in one column, and text in another I think
[21:19] <nixternal> same as what you see in the config dialogs...if that is the idea you are after
[21:19] <mhb> yeah
[21:19] <mhb> hmm, for some reason, designer won't allow me to reset the column value
[21:20] <mhb> I set like "3", it re-sets to "0"
[21:20] <nixternal> trying to remember
[21:23] <mhb> still no luck
[21:23] <nixternal> let me fire up qtdes
[21:27] <nixternal> mhb: what about columnview?
[21:27] <mhb> Riddell: GNOME (or Ubuntu, I dunno) has this pop-up when you change the language that asks you whether you want to create appropriate localised XDG user dirs
[21:27] <mhb> Riddell: are we catching up on that, too?
[21:27] <nixternal> hrmm, I don't even see how to add columns to that
[21:27] <nixternal> odd
[21:28] <mhb> that's the "View" model, not the Widget...
[21:28] <mhb> I must admit I cannot work with that yet
[21:29] <nixternal> I know I have done it in the past...I wonder if I just added the <columns> and <rows> in the .ui file manually...I cannot remember
[21:31] <mhb> hrm, I'd expect Trolltech to have an easy way of doing it
[21:31] <nixternal> ya, qt designer is the greatest documented app, at least that I have found...I found little documents here and there
[21:33] <mhb> hrm
[21:33] <mhb> "For multiple columns you want to use QTableWidget or QTreeWidget"
[21:36] <mhb> TreeWidget is OK, if you remove the indentation
[21:49] <\sh> hmmm...
[21:50] <\sh> Source: kde4libs
[21:50] <\sh> Binary: kdelibs5-dev kde4libs-bin kdelibs5-doc kde4libs-dbg kdelibs5 kdelibs5-data
[21:50] <\sh> it is something strange...or is it just me?
[21:50] <nixternal> \sh: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49360/  <- you OK with those warnings?
[21:50] <\sh> kdelibs5* but kde4libs-{bin,dev}...
[21:51] <nixternal> kdelibs5* follows soname
[21:51] <\sh> nixternal, yeah...but kde4libs-bin is a bit strange for me...but it's just me
[21:51] <nixternal> those are the actual library files, the rest are the little behind the scenes stuff located in share/ etc/ bin/
[21:52] <nixternal> oh man, there are a million screaming kids here
[21:52] <nixternal> I am a garage away and I can still hear them
[21:52]  * nixternal locks the door
[21:53] <\sh> nixternal, remind me to enable pbuilder logfiles :)
[21:55] <\sh> nixternal, reuploading .dsc and .diff.gz with dh_desktop enabled
[21:57] <\sh> nixternal, uploaded to the very same location I gave you earlier :)
[21:58] <\sh> nixternal, the complain about standards version I ignore silently
[22:09] <nixternal> kwwii: if you get this message - let me know if you are in town
[22:16] <\sh> why are all people refering to netfilter as "firewall"?
[22:24] <nixternal> heh, for Fedora always making fun of Ubuntu and non-freeness, at least we don't put GIF files on our websites :p
[22:25] <toma> hasnt the gif patent expired?
[22:25] <\sh> it has...afaik
[22:26]  * toma puts gif's in mailody's handbook
[22:28] <mhb> I must admit I'm liking Oxygen theme more and more
[22:28] <Jucato> nixternal is the greatest documented documenter :)
[22:28] <nixternal> huh?
[22:28] <Jucato> late reaction :)
[22:28] <Jucato> nvm me.. I´m fluctuating between phases of sanity and insanity
[22:28] <nixternal> gif's have expired? /me updates the KDE Style Guide and Templates
[22:29] <Jucato> patent for gifs? yeah I think last year or early this year...
[22:29] <nixternal> the greatest documented documenter would be Normal Walsh more than likely
[22:29]  * Jucato adds the ¨for Kubuntu¨ qualifier then :)
[22:29] <mhb> three years ago, according to wikipedia
[22:29] <jpatrick> PNG > *
[22:30] <Jucato> hm.. strange.. I´m sure it wasn´t that long ago
[22:30] <Jucato> jpatrick: I was told by a graphics artist/programmer that PNG isn´t always the best for all types of images...
[22:31] <Jucato> iirc photorealistic images make large PNGs...
[22:31] <Jucato> or something along that line...
[22:31] <hads> Yeah
[22:32] <nixternal> http://codeulate.com/?p=7
[22:32] <nixternal> hahahahhaa, that is great
[22:32] <nixternal> s/Normal/Norman up there a few lines up :)
[22:32] <Jucato> lol I didn´t even notice :)
[22:33] <\sh> nixternal, if this is the original cygnus code...they are serious ;-)
[22:36] <\sh> oh yay...it's cygnus ;)
[22:37] <nixternal> would be nice if we could tell some packages to not try and  build on hppa and such
[22:37] <nixternal> seems like a waste of resources for a package to start building, only knowing that is will crash out
[22:38] <nixternal> hrmm, my xine-lib 1.1.9 doesn't work...kdebase isn't recognizing it
[22:38] <Jucato> I thought you were quoting from the link :)
[22:38] <nixternal> hehe
[22:38] <mhb> how to download most of kdebase KDE4 packages with one metapackage?
[22:38] <Jucato> oooh 2 big/heavy (no kidding) boxes from the US arrived... wonder what goodies await inside...
[22:40] <mhb> hmm, kdebase-kde4 perhaps
[22:40]  * Jucato unfortunately has no idea...
[22:41] <jjesse> that's where those dead bodies got shipped to
[22:41] <Jucato> ooooh nice!! I´ve never tried doing autopsies :)
[22:42] <Nightrose> nixternal: *g* I am missing something in you last blogpost
[22:42] <Jucato> I immediately know what that is :)
[22:43] <Nightrose> ;-)
[22:43] <Jucato> Nightrose: it´s implied in the 4th item though :)
[22:43] <Nightrose> hehe yea maybe
[22:43] <jjesse> hrm what am i missing?
[22:43] <Jucato> jjesse: a conversation that took place half a day ago :)
[22:43] <mhb> start giving free money like he promised?
[22:44] <Jucato> konspiracies from konniving kontributors and koders :)
[22:44] <Jucato> oh he promised you that too?
[22:44] <Nightrose> :P
[22:47] <jpatrick> jjesse: we're in the same boat
[22:49] <\sh> Nightrose, I thought you are on vacation ? :)
[22:49] <mhb> too bad they're going to keep the Oxygen widget style just for KDE4.
[22:50] <mhb> because our apps would look out of place in the KDE4 desktop.
[22:50] <mhb> I mean KDE3 apps that are not ported yet.
[22:50] <Nightrose> \sh: i am - logged in with my laptop at my mothers house
[22:50] <Nightrose> \sh: heya btw ;-)
[22:50] <\sh> Nightrose, oh internet roaming :)
[22:50] <Nightrose> ;-) yea
[22:51] <\sh> ok...last cigarette for today...and then going to bed...tomorrow /me needs to put some glasspheres on the tree...
[22:51] <Nightrose> hehe sounds like fun
[22:51] <Nightrose> my mom did that already
[22:52] <Nightrose> everything is done here - that is the benefit of only visiting twice a year *g*
[22:53] <\sh> so..time to go to bed :)
[22:53] <\sh> nixternal, thx for taking care about wine :)
[22:54] <nixternal> no problem...still test building it
[22:54] <\sh> nixternal, yeah takes some time
[22:55] <\sh> so good night folks :) may the source be with you ... ,-)
[22:56] <nixternal> \sh_away: uploaded
[22:57] <jpatrick> g'night everyone
[22:57] <jjesse> grrr anytime i do anything processor intensive my computer f reezes