=== Katze is now known as Shely === Shely is now known as Katze [01:11] @now [01:11] Current time in Etc/UTC: December 22 2007, 01:11:58 - Next meeting: Kubuntu Developers in 9 hours 48 minutes === bigon is now known as bigon` === \sh_away is now known as \sh === \sh is now known as \sh_away === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kubuntu Developers Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 09 Jan 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 10 Jan 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development | 16 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu meeting [10:58] hi all [10:58] * Jucato waves hello [10:58] heya Riddell [10:58] we'll start in a few minutes with membership then other stuff [10:58] hello [10:58] but first, one of the items is wallpapers, and I have a selection we can review from the oxygen people [10:58] but it's not to be given out to the public [10:58] so if you want to have a look at them please /msg me and I'll give you the URL [10:58] * Hobbsee would [11:00] * mhb would [11:00] nobody else? [11:00] rouzic isn't around -> skip [11:00] * jpatrick would [11:00] how pretty [11:00] are there pink ponies? :) [11:00] Good Morning Friends [11:00] Riddell: are these in widescreen too? [11:01] welcome to the Kubuntu Christmas party [11:01] yay, party! [11:01] Hobbsee: dunno [11:01] wearing of paper hats from crackers is compulsary [11:01] lol [11:01] who do we have from the council? [11:01] me, Hobbsee, mhb [11:02] Lure? [11:02] not me, I'm afraid :o) [11:02] Riddell: just joined [11:02] um... I have to excuse myself... family stuff... sorry to drop out so suddenly. I'll try to catch up later [11:02] not mhb... yet :) [11:02] I'll write the minutes if you'd like [11:02] nixternal? [11:02] we seem to be missing the minutes for the past 2 meetings btw... [11:02] anyway... gone... sorry again... [11:03] agenda at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings [11:03] first up is membership [11:03] no rouzic? [11:03] do we have smarter? [11:03] Riddell: yes :) [11:03] welcome along smarter, could you introduce yourself? [11:03] okay [11:04] * Hobbsee curses rotten parents [11:04] I'm a 14 yo, French guy, I'm admin of the french ubuntu forum and a KDE-lover :) Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GuillaumeMartres [11:04] i'm going to need to belatedly vote on this. *sigh* [11:04] memberships first would be great. [11:05] smarter: how long have you been involved? [11:05] smarter: what is the area that you think your contributions are the stronger? [11:07] is there anyone here to support smarter? [11:07] Riddell: I first used Linux 2,5 years ago I became a moderator on the french forum 1 year ago, admin six months ago and medibuntu packager since yesterday ;) [11:07] Lure: For the moment, bug reporting, but I hope to make cool patches for Kubuntu/KDE in the future [11:08] Riddell: I asked some french MOTU but it looks like they forgot to wake up ;) [11:08] smarter: why are the packages of amarok and kaffeine different in medibuntu? [11:09] Riddell: amarok is compiled with --enable-mp4v2 and kaffeine with lame support [11:09] but they're based on Kubuntu packages [11:09] and the description clearly state that they are not official Ubuntu packages [11:09] smarter: and afair, they only change build-depends [11:10] Lure: yes, kaffeine build-deps on liblame-dev and amarok on libmp4v2-dev [11:10] smarter: how long are you doing bug triage and are you focusing on particular areas? [11:11] Lure: I started bug triaging recently and I focus mostly on kde, 'cause it's easier for me to try to make patches [11:11] smarter: kde in general or are some packages of particular interest? [11:12] Lure: I started with kdebase [11:12] and kdelibs [11:12] we always need more of that being done [11:12] YAY \O/ [11:12] smarter: you are a brave man! [11:12] I can't believe I woke up [11:12] ;-) [11:12] morning nixternal, any questions for smarter before we vote? [11:12] thanks Lure ;) [11:12] smarter: we really need bug triagers [11:12] err [11:12] who is the smarter? :) [11:13] nixternal: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GuillaumeMartres [11:13] so many new people :) [11:14] w/o a doubt his future is definitely bright, considered he was 12 when he started [11:14] that's a good sign right? (trying to sneak in a line or two before dinner) [11:14] :) [11:14] lets vote [11:15] +1 from me for adding to the francophone cabal and doing the slog of bug triage [11:15] Lure, nixternal, Hobbsee? [11:15] that is pretty impressive to me [11:15] I would prefer a bit longer contribution, but based on couple of bugs, comments I have just reviewed I can give a +1 [11:15] +1 - simply amazed at just how accomplished one is at 14 [11:16] congratulations smarter [11:16] huzzah! \o/ [11:16] * Lure remebers jpatrick being that age when I joined - and he helped me getting into packaging ;-) [11:16] any other memberships? [11:16] congrats [11:16] grrr, parents. [11:16] That's a cool christmas present ;) [11:16] * Hobbsee quickly reads [11:16] Lure: ;) [11:16] can I go back to bed :) [11:16] hehe [11:16] rouzic's asleep/missing [11:17] smarter: welcome and rock on! [11:17] congrats smarter [11:17] +1 from me [11:17] congrats smarter! [11:17] smarter: congrats :) [11:17] thanks everyone :) [11:17] so next is the big item for today, the non LTS change [11:17] WHAT? NON-LTS? You are kidding right? [11:18] p [11:18] discussion of the way that was decided should be left to the canonical members of the tech board, keybuk says he's happy to answer questions [11:18] oh, i thoguht there was a background decision first :P [11:18] oh ya, the tongue and no eyes [11:18] Riddell: he is not around [11:18] no, you'd have to catch him at some other time [11:18] Lure: do you blame him after such a big decision? :) [11:19] does that mean that 8.10 will be a LTS? [11:19] Riddell: so presumably the question is abotu where to focus our attention - kde3, kde4. [11:19] I would suggest deciding on the further steps we take in order to help Kubuntu the most [11:19] smarter: no [11:19] smarter: no [11:19] Riddell: I know that Keybuk wears several hats: so in which authority was decision made? Canonical or TB? [11:19] Lure: LTS is Canonical's decision [11:20] 9.04 then? [11:20] Riddell: and I suspect dapper is first and last LTS for Kubuntu, right? [11:20] smarter: I can't see us having an LTS out of step with ubuntu [11:20] hi akk [11:20] all* [11:20] Lure: I hope not, I don't think so [11:20] rouzic: will cover your membership later, ok? [11:20] Riddell: by chance, is there any reasoning that can be publically displayed for this decision? [11:20] nixternal: probably a better question for keybuk [11:21] lure: :( [11:21] nixternal: as Hobbsee says [11:21] roger that [11:21] Riddell: but we will break LTS upgrade chaing, therefore LTS ->LTS upgrade will not be possible anymore [11:21] Lure: apparently there are no support contracts anyway [11:21] Riddell: unless dapper Kubuntu will be supported until next LTS which I doungt [11:21] dounbt even [11:21] doubt even ;-) [11:21] and i'd imagine that we'll vaguely support dapper --> hardy, with metapackages [11:21] but not test overly much [11:21] Hobbsee: there are, I know a few people and places here with the support contracts [11:22] (as in, default installs to hardy) [11:22] nixternal: kubuntu dapper? [11:22] actually no [11:22] no LTS support contracts :) [11:22] Hobbsee: problem is that new users cannot install something today that is LTS supported and be able to upgrade to LTS in future [11:22] nixternal: right, yes, those are the ones that we care about for the purposes of this discussion [11:22] well I think we're settled on that we will do 2 Kubuntu CDs, one with KDE3 as default desktop and the other one would be a KDE4-KDE3 mix, I guess. [11:22] So, we only care about paying customers now? [11:23] unfortunately so [11:23] Lure: this is true, but that debate is for the tb, not general kubuntu. [11:23] Flannel: I hope not ;-) [11:23] unfortunatly making a KDE 4 CD is blocked on the seeds being rejigged so we don't have a clear idea of what packages would be on it [11:23] but as mhb we should have both a KDE 3 CD and KDE 4 CD, and the question is the status of each [11:23] Lure: it would, of course, be nice to have a reasonably working upgrade, if a community member wanted to work on it somewhat [11:23] Flannel: well LTS = long term support = paying customers. i don't see why anybody else would care about the LTS moniker [11:23] Lure: You'll still be able to install Hardy and upgrade to the next LTS, you just may have to do the upgrade as a GUI-less upgrade, and then convert back to Kubuntu [11:23] I don't see why 3.5 release couldn't be LTS [11:24] Hobbsee: mvo says he's making sure upgrade works, but the Kubuntu upgrade tool will be missing [11:24] nixternal: because canonical has decided. [11:24] Riddell: right [11:24] yuriy: it is message to the marked and such decision does not help making kubuntu viable alternative [11:24] yuriy: There are plenty of people, myself included, that are still on Dapper and not paying customers, because we prefer stability. [11:24] Riddell: probably safer, seeing as how it usually does [11:24] yuriy: and I am the first one to agree that Canonical can drop it [11:24] Flannel: then i'd suggest helping out checking that it works, to upgrade it. [11:24] yuriy: just that they should do well though decision first and discuss other aspects with community [11:25] regardless, we're bikeshedding, and wasting valuable time [11:25] indeed [11:25] of course if someone else or a company wants to get the upgrader running and tested in it's meny different combinations that's entirely welcome, although slow and boring work [11:25] so, I have a proposal [11:25] ... [11:26] drum roll... [11:26] :P [11:26] Riddell: shoot [11:26] we keep the KDE 3 CD as the commercially supported (18 months) and based on the kubuntu-desktop seed, and the one that 7.10 upgrades to... [11:26] but we big up the KDE 4 CD as being the interesting and exciting one, we put it on release.u.c, have it on shipit and generally make it the focus of our messaging [11:27] +1 [11:27] +1 from me [11:27] Riddell: if we're allowed to do that, +25. [11:27] +1 [11:27] it would be community supported, so 6 months only [11:27] +1 [11:27] the only problematic part is whether they'll allow us to do that [11:27] but it would be the main Kubuntu CD for non-commercial users [11:28] Riddell: that's reasonable enough. it's not like montreal would know kde4 stuff anyway - nor that they'd be writing patches [11:28] Riddell: what do we support upgrades from after hardy, then? [11:28] Hobbsee: its not like montreal know's 3.5 stuff either [11:28] * Lure_ dropped of [11:28] nixternal: true, but they probably know a bit more than that [11:29] * Hobbsee grabs a pastebin [11:29] Lure: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49274/ [11:29] * Riddell wins [11:29] Riddell: thanks [11:29] Hobbsee: I'd assume Hardy+1 would have one KDE again, which would both CDs upgrade to [11:29] awww [11:29] * Hobbsee blames au connection [11:29] yes, hardy+1 should be KDE 4 [11:29] supported upgrade path would be from KDE 3 (which is the tricky bit) [11:29] so the kde3 --> kde4 would work [11:30] Riddell: not if you really want kde3,4 to be coinstallable, though [11:30] upgrading from KDE 4 should be fine too since that's comparitavly easy [11:30] if you can just put a global replaces on it... [11:30] er, don't want them to coinstall [11:30] Riddell: so hardy+1 will still have kde3 in, just not default? [11:31] Lure_: commercial customers would get it by deafult [11:31] Riddell: have you talked with Steve Langasek or anyone else from the Release Team about your plan? [11:31] mhb: he's one of them, i'm another. [11:31] Lure_: that I'm unsure, how soon we clear kde 3 from the archives, but it's pretty much a question for hardy+1 not now [11:31] Riddell: agreed [11:31] Hobbsee: I know, but Canonical can block it again, as they do the shipping ... [11:31] * Hobbsee can't see why you'd keep kde3 around [11:31] Hobbsee: I wouldn't like that to happen [11:32] mhb: i doubt they would. they haven't blocked MOTU so far [11:32] mhb: we can have whatever we like on shipit really, just send them the ISO and tell the marketing person what to put on the cover text [11:32] so i doubt they would this either [11:32] iRon, vorian: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49274/ [11:33] Hobbsee: because all apps would not have kde4 port yet? [11:33] Lure_: i thought you could run kde3-based stuff in kde4. [11:33] Hobbsee: right, but we need libs, base... [11:33] hence why would you get rid of it? [11:33] you can [11:33] Lure_: right [11:33] apachelogger: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49274/ [11:33] i would think kde3 stuff would get demoted to universe though [11:34] Lure_: it may not fit on the CD, we don't know yet. [11:34] hi [11:34] +1 for the paste [11:34] Lure_: but I guess the sane KDE4 CD would have a KDE4 desktop, some KDE4 apps, and some KDE3 apps (amarok, kaffeine, digikam and so on) [11:34] mhb: that it would [11:34] Riddell, big +1 :) [11:34] mhb: amarok, etc, has been ported. [11:34] openoffice, dunno about [11:35] +1 [11:35] Hobbsee: not in time for hardy [11:35] Riddell: I would go with koffice beta [11:35] Riddell: oh, true, yes [11:35] couldn't we use koffice? [11:35] Hobbsee: amarok2 is unusable [11:35] does it support windows file formats reasonably, though? [11:35] we could go with koffice but I'd want to ask the koffice devels if they're happy with that [11:35] you don't think amarok2 and digikam will be ready in time for hardy? [11:35] still, since amarok1.4 only depends on kdelibs that's not a biggy [11:35] anyway, this isn't a good time to discuss the exact apps [11:36] and kword2 seems quite usable already [11:36] we need to get the KDE 4 CDs started first, then argue over the finer details [11:36] agreed [11:36] ditto [11:36] anything else to discusson that, or can we move on? [11:36] Riddell: so when can we expect it to be unblocked? [11:36] Riddell: rouzic's around [11:36] mhb: cjwatson says it's high on his priority, so hopefully soon in the new year [11:36] Riddell: koffice is expected to be released in April, so beta should be good enough for preview [11:36] http://wiki.koffice.org/index.php?title=KOffice2/Schedule [11:37] it's here [11:37] * yuriy keeps thinking hardy is 8.06 not 8.04 because of dapper [11:37] heh [11:37] rouzic: could you introduce yourself? [11:37] as in, 2 extra months to get apps in [11:37] * Riddell reads https://wiki.kubuntu.org/rouzic [11:38] riddell: I have been the admin of kubuntu-es.org for the last two years. And now run the xubuntu-es.org and edubuntu-es.org websites [11:39] rouzic: I notice kubuntu-es.org is still broken, what's happening there? [11:39] Riddell: the guys with the DNS don't want to hand it over to us [11:40] jpatrick: hrm [11:40] anything I can do to help with that? [11:40] he erased his user account (because of lack of activity), and now he doesn't exist for them [11:40] rouzic: so what's on kubuntu-es.org what it is working? [11:41] the site can be accessed from the xubuntu-es and edubuntu-es.org since they both use the same DB [11:42] s/both/all three [11:42] and which is rouzic here? https://edge.launchpad.net/~rouzic :) [11:42] anyone here to support rouzic? jpatrick presumably? [11:42] the one with long hair :) [11:42] lol [11:43] riddell: I have to right a fax to the DNS guys [11:43] riddell: i'm the boy, left on the photo [11:43] rouzic: any other community member that you worked with? [11:43] better visit him personally ;-) [11:43] Riddell: well he has been working on the site for two years :) [11:43] +1 from me [11:44] rouzic: what is your relationship with ubuntu-es.org ? [11:44] rouzic: are that also es support channels on irc? [11:44] rouzic: any future plans for your contribution to kubuntu? [11:44] riddell: contact with the administrador's ubuntu-es every day [11:45] rouzic: that is the other person on the picture? ;-) [11:45] apachelogger: Translations and bug reports [11:46] sorry, have to leave for work, bye [11:46] rouzic: not much activity in LP though? [11:46] bye cheguevara [11:46] apachelogger: #kubuntu-es.org === Lure_ is now known as Lure [11:46] rouzic: how about representing Kubuntu @ linux events in es? [11:47] good bye cheguevara [11:47] Lure: he rarely comes on irc, but I maintain the #kubuntu-es channel [11:47] * LongPointyStick sighs at how her screen only sometimes unlocks [11:48] Riddell: I am fine to give +1 on jpatrick support - LoCo presence is important and can just improve for kubuntu [11:48] rouzic: but you need to fix kubuntu-es.org or replace with some other name ;-) [11:48] +1 from me too, good luck with that DNS [11:48] * Lure wants to see kubuntu theme [11:49] nixternal awake? Hobbsee? [11:49] if jpatrick is supporting, I would have to consider -1 :P but seeing as you all like jpatrick, I guess I will do a +1 :p [11:49] +1 [11:49] apachelogger: yes ;) [11:49] see LongPointyStick comment [11:49] hrrhrr [11:49] I love event promo :D [11:49] +1 from me [11:49] ah nixternal, always windind us up like the office joker [11:50] he'll be doing silly things with the photocopyer next === \sh_away is now known as \sh [11:50] oioi [11:50] congratulations and welcome rouzic [11:50] congrats rouzic [11:50] rouzic: rock on! [11:50] rouzic: bienviendo! [11:50] hahahaha [11:50] rouzic: -1 from not meeting him in sevilla. [11:50] * apachelogger hands out cookies [11:50] wallpapers is next on the agenda [11:50] my photocopier is to small to do silly things with [11:50] everyone have the url? /msg me if not [11:50] Riddell: I don't [11:50] see /msg [11:50] riddell: thanks :) [11:51] rouzic: how do you go for ops, etc, in -es? [11:51] Hobbsee: jpatrick says he's not an irc man [11:51] and that jpatrick runs #kubuntu-es [11:51] oh. that's weird, as i've seen him around somewaht :) [11:51] ahhh. had forgotten that [11:51] Hobbsee: I have minimumal access, but we both have ops on #kubuntu-es (trying to get the other guy to give more access), I also have ops on #ubuntu-es :p [11:52] right [11:52] Riddell: are we supposed to take a vote on what we like with the wp's? [11:52] jpatrick: I can get you whatever access is needed in #kubuntu* channels if a freenode staffer is around [11:52] * Hobbsee can too [11:52] so wallpapers === \sh is now known as \sh_away [11:52] I think the final decision should be taken by kwwii [11:52] oh, pretty [11:52] * Hobbsee wants occthecodepoet.jpg [11:52] and it's not limited to the ones here, I just thought since the oxygen team had collected them it would be nice to make use of them [11:53] what's the colour theme for hardy? [11:53] in my mind a wallpaper should not distract at all and fit in the with colour scheme [11:53] * Hobbsee notes that the blue ones don't really do it for her [11:53] Hobbsee: well of course we have both KDE 3 and 4 to consider [11:53] KDE 3 will be blueish as usual, KDE 4 is a whole new land [11:53] riddell-compliant are not much mhb-compliant here either. [11:54] the ones in riddell-compliant are the non distracting ones that fit in with KDE 3 in my opinion === bigon` is now known as bigon [11:54] there are some bubbles i actually like for once in there :) [11:54] the photographic ones tend to be too blurry at higher resolutions [11:54] of course if you've seen the hoary wallpaper I made, you'll know I'm not always the best at chosing these things [11:54] I don't like the "KDE 4 Winner" honestly === \sh_away is now known as \sh [11:55] top-left in the riddell-compliant section [11:55] so once Ken gets back from the US I think we should give him our preferences and he can chose one [11:55] that sounds sensible. [11:55] '632-img 2760' is my favourite currently [11:55] does anyone know if he is in the Chicago land area with his folks by chance? [11:56] Riddell: mine too [11:56] nixternal: he hasn't said, but it seems likely [11:56] looks fishy [11:56] that is pretty cool [11:56] <_StefanS_> Riddell: got an url for that image? [11:56] I like the colour scheme of the Feather wallpaper [11:56] I will have to try and get in touch with him then since he would be right up the road then [11:56] yeah, feather is currently my 2nd fav [11:57] though, it might make the whole desktop too darkish [11:57] my favorite, well it was 282 Colorado Farm, but there are some really nice onces in this list that I haven't seen before [11:57] I like the fish that Riddell likes, and KDE 4 Wall Ts9 is kind of sharp [11:57] nixternal: too Windows XP [11:57] heh [11:57] but the photo is brilliant :) [11:57] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I like 479-fresh morning [11:57] 252 bubbles is kind of neat [11:57] I'm not much of a fan of photos in general, too distracting === \sh is now known as \sh_away [11:58] <_StefanS_> Riddell: your favourite is not in very high quality [11:58] I find the fish too cyan to make a good wallpaper [11:58] * LongPointyStick curses compiz [11:58] also it suffers from the "blur at high resolution" === Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee [11:58] which is why I don't make photos anymore :o) [11:59] hehe [11:59] 160-The Wall is kind of neat [11:59] OMG [11:59] what I don't like on the Feather is the feather [11:59] 282 Lake Dillon is beautiful [11:59] * txwikinger likes the Colorado Farm too [11:59] mhb: replace it with the logo [11:59] but I assume the wallpaper is SVG, so that could be changed if the author agrees [11:59] ah yes, the colorado farm is *nice* === \sh_away is now known as \sh [11:59] replace the text with Kubuntu [12:00] apachelogger: we don't really like branded wallpapers [12:00] * Hobbsee still likes the autumn leaf. [12:00] that's the policy. [12:00] mhb: but it looks best :P [12:01] so last item on the agenda is a related item [12:01] Hobbsee: autumn leaf == img 3101? [12:01] <_StefanS_> hmm the only wallpapers that present nicely in highres is the *oxygen* ones (in riddell-compliant) [12:02] the artwork team want someone to represent Kubuntu [12:02] _StefanS_: the Feather doesn't? :o) [12:02] nixternal: erm, no, occthecodepoet.jpg [12:02] nixternal: below TheClouds [12:02] <_StefanS_> mhb: in riddell-compliant [12:02] _StefanS_: ah [12:02] _StefanS_: right [12:02] oh ya, that is a nice one too [12:03] * Hobbsee wonders why it seems that bright desktops seem more distracting than photos [12:03] my favs: oxygen, 632 and feather [12:03] <_StefanS_> mhb: I guess thats the ones we have to choose from [12:03] any volunteers to represent Kubuntu on the artwork team? [12:03] apachelogger: ooh, yeah. oxygen is nice [12:03] * mhb reads [12:03] Riddell: i will, if i can get my favorite artwork in :P [12:04] Riddell: do we have to be good at doing graphics? [12:04] feather. oh, shudder. [12:04] nixternal: no I don't think so [12:04] what all is involved, any ideas? [12:04] well, one should have an idea of what is going on in kubuntu artwork I guess ;-) [12:04] apachelogger: that should be easy [12:04] * nixternal would think Ken would represent us :) [12:04] <_StefanS_> anyone liking those nature photos should definitely check out vplants on deviantart.com [12:04] nixternal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Meetings [12:04] ken is kindae busy representing everything artwork [12:05] pd: List of representative duties: [12:05] * Be active in the IRC channel [12:05] * Be active in list [12:05] * Attend meetings (wherever posible) [12:05] ahh, I didn't pay attention to that email thing [12:05] * Familarity with the structure of their distribution [12:05] nixternal: we need someone kubuntu-biased :o) [12:05] umm, I don't see artwork, I see derivative team [12:05] * Hobbsee wonders where to get the panorama one at higher resolution [12:05] nixternal: Subject: Re: Ubuntu Artwork Team [12:06] ya, but nothing in that email is about artwork [12:06] Riddell: I was apart of the whole derivatives thing, and never seen much work, so I recently departed from it [12:07] well if nobody wants to do it, that's ok [12:07] any other business? [12:07] well I can hang around -artwork if that's it [12:07] but that team has nothing to do with artwork [12:07] don't let the subject fool ya :) [12:07] Riddell: maybe call for someone on -devel? [12:08] well they have ideas [12:08] this is an "Ubuntu Derivatives" team for helping distros based off of Ubuntu [12:08] was oxygen1 decided on? [12:08]