[00:10] <mhb> hey folks, anyone awake?
[00:11] <mhb> nixternal maybe?
[00:12] <crimsun> idle     : 0 days 1 hours 16 mins 25 secs
[00:12] <mhb> hrm
[00:12] <mhb> anyone else?
[00:13] <Riddell> a bit
[00:13] <mhb> hmm, no, don't want to bother you :o)
[00:13] <Riddell> mhb: you could try the kde4* metapackages in hardy
[00:15] <mhb> Riddell: should I test something or was that related to my previous questions?
[00:15] <mhb> Riddell: aanyway, for a good night picture, take a look at: http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/889/restrictedmanagerkde4tz5.png
[00:15] <Riddell> previous question
[00:15] <Riddell> ching ching
[00:15] <Riddell> nice restricted manager
[00:16] <mhb> pitti is working hard on a new upgraded version, so I figured before I create a KDE frontend for it, I might as well do a KDE4 frontend for the current one.
[00:19] <DaSkreech> Yay!
[00:19] <DaSkreech> LInux ! :)
[00:29] <vorian> yay!
[00:30] <vorian> only one more working day till christmas!1!1
[00:30] <DaSkreech> My company has been unoffically off for a while
[00:30] <vorian> must be nice :)
[00:31] <vorian> I'm a retailer
[00:37] <mhb> now we have Konquered the Planet!
[00:38] <mhb> finally
[00:38] <mhb> too bad it's just planet.ubuntu.com
[00:38] <DaSkreech> We did?
[00:38] <DaSkreech> what happened/
[00:39] <mhb> just take a look
[00:39] <DaSkreech> I've been out of the loop for like two weeks
[00:42] <DaSkreech> That is a lot of Blue posts
[00:43] <mhb> DaSkreech: so you were out for two weeks?
[00:43] <DaSkreech> Yes
[00:43] <mhb> that means the news have not hit you yet
[00:44] <DaSkreech> nixternal was saying last night(?) that we are shipping both on the next release?
[00:44] <mhb> DaSkreech: the current plan is, we're going to have to CD images
[00:45] <mhb> one of them will be the "stable" one, with KDE3 as originally planned
[00:45] <mhb> this one will be fully supported
[00:45] <DaSkreech> Right
[00:45] <mhb> on the other hand, the second CD will be with KDE4 desktop (and some KDE3 apps), that would be only community-supported, but we'd ship the KDE4 one via ShipIt
[00:45] <DaSkreech> And one with KDE4 which is "community supported'
[00:46] <DaSkreech> Seriously/
[00:46] <DaSkreech> That's interesting
[00:46] <DaSkreech> Who OKed that?
[00:46] <mhb> Seriously. Unless someone changes our plans again.
[00:46] <mhb> well, we had a meeting today.
[00:46] <mhb> so the whole team, basically.
[00:46] <DaSkreech> Shipit eh?
[00:47] <mhb> yeah
[00:47] <crimsun> mhb: hmm, so there will be a Kubuntu 8.04 LTS that ships 3.5.x?
[00:47] <DaSkreech> What about corporate requests?
[00:47] <DaSkreech> Do they get KDE4 or 3 by default ?
[00:47] <mhb> well I guess we cannot really ship two kinds of CDs
[00:47] <DaSkreech> crimsun: far as I recall that was always the idea
[00:47] <mhb> but they can download the KDE3 image.
[00:47] <mhb> crimsun: well, it won't be called "LTS"
[00:47] <DaSkreech> KDE4 doesn't slay KDE3 upon stepping on the red carpet
[00:48] <crimsun> mhb: ok, so just the more common 18-mn support?
[00:48] <DaSkreech> As it probably shouldn't be
[00:48] <mhb> crimsun: yes, but we'll still pretend it is an LTS.
[00:48]  * DaSkreech laughs
[00:48] <mhb> crimsun: you know, it wasn't the Kubuntu team who decided that we won't have an LTS.
[00:48] <DaSkreech> in terms of polish?
[00:49] <mhb> I hope so.
[00:49] <DaSkreech> Thats going to be nasty
[00:49] <DaSkreech> we have our butts being toasted by a KDE4 release AND framework
[00:49] <DaSkreech> how are we going to get place for polish?
[00:49] <mhb> I'm more interested in the KDE4 side of things, but others would like to have a really polished KDE3.
[00:50] <DaSkreech> mhb: That's the point Eyes are on the KDE4 release but people really want to use the KDE3
[00:50] <DaSkreech> and Gutsy wasn't that grand >_<
[00:50] <mhb> DaSkreech: many of the KDE3 apps will have to be present on the KDE4 cd.
[00:50] <DaSkreech> Many?
[00:50] <mhb> DaSkreech: like adept, amarok, kaffeine, digikam...
[00:51] <DaSkreech> Is that quantative or just a personal note
[00:51] <DaSkreech> Digikam in 4 isn't usable ?
[00:51] <crimsun> mhb: I prefer the technical bits to the political bits. :)
[00:51] <mhb> crimsun: hehe :o) me too.
[00:51] <mhb> good choice.
[00:51] <mhb> DaSkreech: it's not ready.
[00:52] <mhb> from what I've heard
[00:52] <DaSkreech> crimsun: aren't we discussing the technical now?
[00:52] <DaSkreech> mhb: Well maybe see how much needs to be done before next year april ?
[00:52] <DaSkreech> Amarok as well
[00:52] <DaSkreech> adept and kaffeine I'll go with
[00:53] <DaSkreech> though it would be grand if we could get a tiny community around adept simply because of a Qt4 port
[00:53] <crimsun> DaSkreech: (that was in response to "it wasn't the Kubuntu team who decided..."
[00:53] <mhb> the problem with KDE3 is, the more we polish it, the more we are going to regret it later
[00:53] <DaSkreech> It's needed love for a long time this would be a good time to get 4 or so people really involved
[00:54] <DaSkreech> crimsun: Ah right. well regardless which we shipped it should not be an LTS
[00:54] <DaSkreech> we can do an LTS for 8.10
[00:54] <mhb> it's like when I had to choose whether buy a MacBook now or wait for the newer model ... if I bought it right away, I would have been happy ATM, but later I'd regret it.
[00:54]  * DaSkreech shrugs
[00:54] <DaSkreech> Not that big a deal
[00:55] <mhb> right, but some people prefer to wait
[00:55] <mhb> that's why I prefer porting apps to KDE4 over polishing KDE3.
[00:56] <DaSkreech> Yeah and I'm saying that they will be in anycase so we should look to capitalize on it :)
[00:56] <DaSkreech> If adept is going to be rewritten it might as well be slightly rethought
[00:56] <DaSkreech> and if it's going to be rethought then it might as well have a meeting of minds
[00:56] <mhb> DaSkreech: well we're not really set on rewriting it
[00:57] <mhb> we are still hoping PackageKit would have a Qt4 frontend
[00:57] <mhb> which can be used
[00:57]  * DaSkreech still isn't sold on packageKit :(
[00:57]  * mhb neither, but that's the plan
[00:57] <mhb> actually I think package management should be done over the Internet
[00:58] <mhb> searching for the packages online in a web app, then clicking on a link like apt://install/konqueror and the backend would do the rest.
[00:58] <DaSkreech> You mean Klik:/ don't you ?
[00:59] <mhb> not really.
[00:59] <mhb> I dislike the model where you actually have to download the app from an untrusted source.
[00:59] <mhb> repositories are a good thing.
[01:00] <DaSkreech> Klik2:/ then
[01:00] <DaSkreech> :-)
[01:00] <mhb> this way, it is the equivalent of running "sudo apt-get install konqueror", but you'd click it
[01:00] <mhb> klik2 is not known to me
[01:00] <DaSkreech> :-) Well it's roughly that you want
[01:01] <DaSkreech> or KGHNS :)
[01:01] <mhb> DaSkreech: you know, try apt://thunderbird/ in Firefox or Konqueror hardy sometime
[01:01] <mhb> you might be surprised
[01:01] <DaSkreech> Did in Konqui have not tried in firefox
[01:02] <mhb> firefox should do it too
[01:02] <mhb> AFAIK
[01:02] <DaSkreech> Well it's a KIOslave so maybe not
[01:02] <DaSkreech> Firefox and Adobe are kinda stick in the muds
[01:04] <mhb> what I wanted to say is that I don't see any future in the traditional package management
[01:04] <mhb> web offers flexibility (translations, pictures, videos, comments, use cases, whatever)
[01:04] <mhb> so the old searching via Adept is a thing of the past.
[01:04] <DaSkreech> I like the searching in adept
[01:05] <mhb> you are a strange man
[01:05] <mhb> :o)
[01:05]  * mhb goes to sleep
[01:06]  * DaSkreech smiles. As has been noted. mhb thanks I'll catch up with you next year
[01:07] <mhb> hehe
[01:07] <mhb> I was just joking, you are alright
[01:08] <DaSkreech> YAY!
[01:08] <DaSkreech> I get to reinstall
[01:08] <DaSkreech> This is wonderful
[01:10] <DaSkreech> Does anyone know of anything delayed beyond KDE 4.1 ?
[01:11] <DaSkreech> mhb: ping
[01:13] <DaSkreech> ok hopefully someone will be awake by the time I get home
[01:18] <DaSkreech> I just wanted to know what will be the procedure for the Hardy testing/dev cycle should we be doing a kubuntu3-desktop or a kubuntu4-desktop ?
[01:18] <DaSkreech> in much fewer otherwords what should be tested as the default ?
[01:20]  * DaSkreech prods nixternal to get his posts on drakeplanet 
[01:41] <nixternal> oy vey, to much to drink
[01:59]  * claydoh wonders how long KDE will support 3.5x
[01:59]  * claydoh can't remember how long they supported 2x in the migration to kde3
[02:09] <nixternal> they didn't support 2 to long after 3
[02:12] <claydoh> I wonder if that is an issue
[02:13] <claydoh> I also remember wanting kde over kde2 (was a Lycoris user back then) :)
[02:13] <claydoh> s/kde/kde3
[03:23] <santiago-ve> yay! finally an updated system
[03:23] <santiago-ve> :D
[03:30] <Knightlust> arrgghh, dec22 alternate build fails on select and install software, i think i need to use alpha2 to install my hardy
[03:31] <santiago-ve> Knightlust: can you please open a dolphin window and tellme what the title bar says?
[03:31] <santiago-ve> it says d3lphin here <.<
[03:32] <Knightlust> santiago-ve: i have an unusable system, gotta wait before i have my alpha2.. will update you when i do
[03:33] <santiago-ve> nvm... its a bug i guess...  gonna report
[03:33] <santiago-ve> Knightlust: that makes 2 of us... i cant use my desktop pc...
[03:34] <Knightlust> heh, i wonder who else has an unusable system...
[08:35] <\sh> moins
[08:40] <\sh> nixternal, thanks for uploading
[11:37] <\sh> hmm...if kde4 is released on 11th of January..this would be cool...turning 37 and kde4 hopefully released
[12:25] <mhb> hello
[12:26] <\sh> moins
[12:34] <mhb> I guess at kdedevelopers.org only KDE developers can reply, right?
[12:46] <\sh> mhb, no...you need to register though
[12:46] <\sh> mhb, want to comment on beineris post?
[12:48] <mhb> \sh: well I registered there once, then my account was deleted like within seconds
[12:48] <mhb> so I guess they didn't want me there.
[12:49] <mhb> his theories may be right, but he says that we are going to have an alternative "KDE4", and that is incorrect.
[12:49] <mhb> we are actually having a main "KDE4" and an alternative "KDE3".
[12:50] <\sh> mhb, I think you didn't understand beineri...what he meant is that "why can't we do an LTS with KDE3 as default for 5 years, while having kde4 on board as alternative for developers...waiting for kde4.1 as real replacement for kde3"
[12:51] <mhb> I know what he was trying to say
[12:51] <mhb> but he actually misinterpreted what we announced.
[12:54] <\sh> mhb, as I said yesterday...what was announced sounds like crap...and will be misinterpreted by many more people and companies and institutions...marketing is one area where Canonical needs to improve their skills imho
[12:55] <\sh> mhb, s/crap/excuse/
[12:55] <mhb> I understand.
[12:55] <mhb> it's their fault, they actually forced Riddell to announce it, and have not had any official announcement done by the press team.
[12:56] <\sh> mhb, that's why beineri was writing "Am I the only one who sees a growing discrepancy between Mark Shuttleworth, Patron of KDE as individual and who promised last year at LinuxTag to not treat KDE second class to GNOME, and what his company Canonical is actually doing?"
[12:57] <\sh> mhb, we had this discussion during LT2006 in Wiesbaden with the whole board of KDE e.V. and mark sitting at the round table to stop treating kde as second class citizen
[12:58] <mhb> well he's right at this
[12:58] <mhb> I'm not criticising him for that, I said at the beginning: "his theories may be correct"
[12:59] <\sh> mhb, I'll add a comment
[13:00] <mhb> I want the users to know that we're shipping KDE4 on the "official" CD and KDE3 as an alternative
[13:00] <mhb> that's it
[13:00] <mhb> otherwise, I'm fine with discussing Canonical's approach
[13:00] <mhb> I actually agree with some of the points
[13:01] <mhb> \sh: I wrote him an email, let's see what happens.
[13:01] <mhb> hi jpatrick
[13:01] <mhb> and hi Jucato
[13:02] <jpatrick> hey mhb
[13:02] <jpatrick> what's up?
[13:03] <mhb> the news about Kubuntu not being LTS spread
[13:03] <jpatrick> obviously
[13:03] <mhb> and many people misinterpreted what we said
[13:04] <mhb> for example that we're shipping KDE4 as default on the official CDs.
[13:04] <jpatrick> aren't we?
[13:04] <\sh> mhb, I just add a comment
[13:04] <Jucato> hi mhb
[13:05] <Jucato> this whole LTS/KDE4/KDE3 thing seems to be sending different (confusing) signals to people...
[13:05]  * Jucato thinks we need to make an official announcement soonish...
[13:05] <\sh> Jucato, "we" can't make an official announcement
[13:06] <Jucato> so what can we do?
[13:07] <Jucato> well, an announcement of our KDE4 and KDE3 plans for Hardy. (not necessarily on the "no LTS" part)
[13:07] <\sh> Jucato, force Canonical to announce it officially...and pushing all the blame to the Canonical Management ;)
[13:07] <Jucato> ah heheh :)
[13:07] <Jucato> that woul
[13:07] <Jucato> would be great :)
[13:08] <\sh> na seriously ... from the marketing PoV it would be better we would do the LTS release...even with KDE4 in main, Canonical can stop the LTS support for special packages in main with the release announcement and in their contracts
[13:08] <\sh> this would be no problem..it's just a sales issue
[13:10] <mhb> still, an announcement on kubuntu.org regarding our approach to KDE4 would be rad
[13:10] <mhb> so people stop saying we only ship KDE4 as an alternative
[13:10] <Jucato> what I really find ironic is that all these theoretically doesn't really change the KDE4 plans we had (IMHO). It has always been the plan to have a "special" KDE4 release/CD iirc, alongside the regular KDE 3 release. The only thing that changed is that now we have the chance (a.k.a. excuse) to focus more on KDE4 :)
[13:10] <Jucato> but now it's like everyone's saying "yay! Kubuntu's going to have KDE 4. a nice christmas gift!"
[13:10] <\sh> the real problem is, IMHO, that there are not enough (paid) resources for supporting KDE in Ubuntu at all, that's the only point which I could agree on for this decision
[13:11] <Jucato> \sh: I don't think there was any to begin with... :(
[13:12] <\sh> Jucato, when you think about how long it took to get kde3 mature enough for production use..kde4 will have a long way ahead
[13:12] <mhb> I wonder what our wise leader thinks
[13:12] <Jucato> \sh: even the devs emphasize that. but of course they are also very eager to just get KDE 4 of the ground first :)
[13:12] <\sh> Jucato, during the beginning of Kubuntu, it was meant to be only as community driven release of Ubuntu with KDE...since hoary it was settled to have an official release of Ubuntu with KDE as default desktop
[13:12] <mhb> hehe, Riddell sounds a bit like leader backwards
[13:13] <Jucato> nice one mhb :)
[13:13] <Jucato> \sh: so I've read/heard. I was 2 releases late into the history of Kubuntu (only started w/ Breezy)
[13:15] <\sh> Jucato, well, hoary was the first official release of kubuntu, when I remember correctly..during this time chris halls and amu left canonical as paid devs
[13:17] <\sh> anyways, there is no way of being p*ssed off with anyone...not even Canonical. because the decision to not make an LTS now is correct, regarding the fact that the support will be in a critical state
[13:17] <Jucato> I'm not really annoyed at the decision per se. but at how it was arrived at or communicated to us
[13:18] <Jucato> I respect the TB's/Canonical's authority on this, but it would have been really nice if they had given us a heads up :)
[13:20] <mhb> do you know whether Tonio will port the kdesudo to KDE4?
[13:21] <Jucato> hm... I was meaning to ask him, specially since I saw a bit of discussion about changes in kdesu a while back
[13:22] <\sh> hmm..what needs to be ported to kde4 still? especially our self made kubuntu apps ?
[13:22] <Jucato> although it would probably be nice if upstream's kdesu is the one that should support both su and sudo properly...
[13:22] <Jucato> kde-guidance I think
[13:23] <Jucato> adept (ew?)
[13:23] <Jucato> at least system settings has been lifted from our shoulders :)
[13:23] <mhb> not adept
[13:23] <Jucato> goodie... (or not)
[13:23] <mhb> let's keep Adept in KDE3 and hope that for Hardy+1 PackageKitQt will be ready
[13:24] <Jucato> or something else that's better....
[13:24] <mhb> yes.
[13:24] <\sh> mhb, +1 :) I don't like adept ;)
[13:24] <Jucato> oh wait, kpackage is getting updated/maintained again iirc
[13:24] <Jucato> imho kpackage is actually good/better than adept if it were only maintained...
[13:24] <mhb> kde-guidance, kdesudo, gdebi (kind of my task), restricted-manager (mine again)
[13:25]  * Jucato likes the fact that you can do simple browsing w/o having to sudo in kpackage
[13:25] <mhb> it'd be lovely if somebody actually did the other two :o)
[13:25] <Jucato> hm... adept wouldn't be half as bad if it had cleaner code and a better UI...
[13:25] <Jucato> hm.. that basically means rewriting it :)
[13:26] <mhb> yes.
[13:26]  * Jucato still can't get over the fact that Adept's main/most important class is called TestApp :D
[13:26] <Jucato> or Application. depends on which file you look...
[13:26] <\sh> ah hell
[13:27] <Jucato> it's really a piece of work. I greatly admire the patience and talent of those who maintain it :)
[13:27] <\sh> adept is also known as a paradoxon ;) a package manager written by a RH employee ,-)
[13:27] <Jucato> a DEB package manager :)
[13:28] <\sh> for .deb based distros ;)
[13:28] <Jucato> (although iirc mornfall's last attempts were to add RPM-support)
[13:28] <Jucato> heh which is one of the things I liked about kpackage. it supports deb's and rpm's (not that rpm's matter much to me)
[13:29] <\sh> well, it's likely easier to add a kde ui for smart then to add rpm-md/zypper repos to adept ,-)
[13:29] <Jucato> heh :)
[13:29] <Jucato> whatever happened to smartpm? O.o
[13:29] <\sh> Jucato, well, it works ;)
[13:29] <Jucato> hahah :)
[13:30] <\sh> I used it during maintaing some opensuse 10.2 installations
[13:30] <\sh> for SLES9 I used yum still...which was a pain in my bum, but nice thing is, that fai knows now about yum and smart ,-)
[13:30] <Jucato> ah yes. during the zmd times? :)
[13:30] <\sh> Jucato, during my times at combots
[13:31] <Jucato> oh mhb, just read your blog post now. nice :)
[13:32] <mhb> Jucato: thanks
[13:32] <mhb> doing a similar one (I mean showing another ported app) would make me happy, too
[13:32] <\sh> is pykde4 ready for using it in real projects? :)
[13:33] <Jucato> afaik yes... but Sime (where is he anyway?) would probably know bitter
[13:33] <Jucato> er.. better...
[13:34] <Jucato> diskconfig in guidance really needs some work and love. right now users are reporting that there seems to be some inconsistencies between diskconfig and fstab entries... (it also probably needs some "marketing"... nice/useful utility but quite unknown...)
[13:35] <mhb> well all of them need it
[13:35] <mhb> nobody really works on it and that's bad
[13:35] <\sh> Jucato, I just had a look at gutsies kde-guidance/userconfig ... it needs some qtdesigner love
[13:35] <mhb> \sh: I've got a screenshot for you
[13:35] <\sh> do we have a bzr repo for it?
[13:36] <\sh> I think my free time in january will be busy ;)
[13:37] <mhb> http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5010/userconfig4pb9.png
[13:37] <Jucato> hm. free-busy time? kinda oxymoronic isn't it? :)
[13:37] <Jucato> mhb: wow! )
[13:38] <Jucato> that was quick :)
[13:38] <mhb> guidance apps are actually pretty well written
[13:38] <mhb> so except for displayconfig they should be easy to port
[13:39]  * Jucato has actually never had any luck in making displayconfig work... even with just changing resolutions...
[13:40] <\sh> looks good :)
[13:41] <mhb> too bad I'm not in high school anymore
[13:41] <\sh> Jucato, yeah sounds like the crack pipe is coming to visit me during these days
[13:41] <Jucato> heh :)
[13:43] <\sh> well, another crack pipe and a good laugh is this http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/12/im-feeling-little-bit-better-now.html
[13:45] <mhb> if I were in high school I'd actually have a free week now
[13:45] <mhb> and I could port most of kde-guidance to KDE4
[13:45] <mhb> alas, I'm not, and I don't :o)
[13:46] <Jucato> but you will :)
[13:46] <Jucato> that's the best part :D
[13:46] <\sh> mhb, well, I'm not in highschool...but our company had a shut down forever...so we were forced to leave companies building and sitting on our asses for the rest of the year and january...and I finally start a new career on 1st of Feb
[13:47] <mhb> Jucato: no, I won't.
[13:47] <mhb> that's the worst part
[13:47] <Jucato> aw :)
[13:51] <jpatrick> mhb: sweet
[13:52] <mhb> jpatrick: and so am I .o) what did you mean?
[13:53] <jpatrick> mhb: the image, looks good
[13:54] <Jucato> lol
[13:56] <mhb> jpatrick: I wish I had the time to finish it and all the dozen other projects I wanted to
[14:09] <\sh> hmm...I'll try to upgrade from gutsy to hardy on my second station
[14:21] <blizzzek> hi
[15:58] <\sh> hmm...what to do to install kde4 on hardy?
[16:04] <Knightlust> \sh: use the ppa, wasn't able to install kde4 until i added the ppa
[16:04] <Knightlust> and it's as buggy as hell for me, everything is so grainy
[16:04]  * \sh just needs some dev environment
[16:06] <Knightlust> well, i hope you can get your dev env up, it's hard to work if yours is like mine; http://knightlust.com/grainy.png
[16:07] <Knightlust> hope it gets updated soon
[16:08] <buz> that looks like a graphics driver issue to me
[16:09] <buz> like you have only 16colors or so
[16:10] <Knightlust> buz: thanks, will check on my drivers
[16:12] <buz> can you copy xdpyinfo output to pastebin?
[16:12] <nixternal> that's not 16 colors for sure
[16:12] <nixternal> Knightlust: what video card do you have?
[16:12] <Knightlust> nixternal: the onboard intel
[16:12] <buz> but its dithering in plasma
[16:12] <nixternal> hrmm, so do I and I have no problems whatsoever
[16:12] <buz> not in the rest though
[16:13] <buz> this is weird to say the least
[16:19] <Knightlust> buz: here you go: http://pastebin.ca/829916
[16:48] <buz> looks ok
[17:45] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: #ubuntu-derivative
[17:54] <nosrednaekim> thanks nixternal
[17:54] <nixternal> yup
[17:54] <nosrednaekim> there a meeting goin on now... or should I just hang out there.
[17:56] <nixternal> they were looking for me I guess earlier
[17:56] <nixternal> someone in another channel told me I should hang out there
[17:56] <nosrednaekim> ok
[17:57] <nixternal> current daily (alt) doesn't install :(  grabbing alpha 2 to install instead
[17:57] <nixternal> need to get my screenshot machine up and running
[18:42] <Riddell> nixternal: did you upload kde4libs?
[18:42] <nixternal> yes
[18:43] <nixternal> did I break the world by doing so?
[18:43] <Riddell> nixternal: not that I know of
[18:43] <Riddell> nixternal: are you going to upload the rest of kde4?
[18:43] <nixternal> I can work on that today
[18:43] <nixternal> are we merging from Debian on everyone?
[18:44] <Riddell> nixternal: ideally yes
[18:44] <nixternal> ok
[18:44] <Riddell> nixternal: better now than for the 4.0 release
[18:44] <nixternal> true
[18:45] <nixternal> do I need to wait for kdelibs5 to build out, and such for each upload (kdepimlibs5 and kdebase-kde4)  before moving on to the others
[18:45] <Riddell> nixternal: no shouldn't have to
[18:46] <nixternal> ok
[18:46] <Riddell> nixternal: so you can just do it in batch
[18:46] <nixternal> great
[18:46] <Riddell> for package in kdepimlibs kdebase-workspace kdebase-kde4 ...; do apt-get source ${asdf}; done
[18:46] <Riddell> for package in kdepimlibs kdebase-workspace kdebase-kde4 ...; do apt-get source ${package}; done   rather
[18:46] <nixternal> hehe
[18:46] <Riddell> for package in kdepimlibs kdebase-workspace kdebase-kde4 ...; do patch -p1 < stdin's patch; done
[18:46] <nixternal> ya, asdf and package aren't the same
[18:47] <Riddell> for package in kdepimlibs kdebase-workspace kdebase-kde4 ...; do cp kde.mk ${package}-*/debian/cdbs/; done
[18:47] <Riddell> etc
[18:50] <iRon> Riddell: hi! what to do with new patch for ntfs mount? do we need to reopen user disk mounting bug in LP?
[18:52] <Riddell> iRon: a debdiff would be ideal if you know how to do that
[18:52] <iRon> Riddell: man debdiff :)
[18:53] <Riddell> iRon: get the latest kdebase (4:3.5.8-2ubuntu8) add the patch to debian/patches  run dch -i  and add a changelog
[18:53] <Riddell> debuild -S; cd ..; debdiff old.dsc new.dsc
[18:54] <iRon> ok
[18:54] <Riddell> iRon: http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kdebase_3.5.8-2ubuntu8.diff.gz
[18:54] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/kdebase_3.5.8-2ubuntu8.dsc
[19:05] <nixternal> Riddell: what was the chroot trick with dbus?
[19:06] <Riddell> nixternal: rm /var/lib/dpkg/info/dbus.postinst  in my experience
[19:06] <nixternal> inside the chroot though correct/
[19:07] <Riddell> yes
[19:07] <nixternal> roger...I couldn't remember how to get around that
[19:37] <jpatrick> Riddell, iRon : kdelibs needs bug 178233
[19:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 178233 in kdebase "Kdebase 4:3.5.8-2ubuntu7 FTBFS" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178233
[19:38] <jpatrick> arg, already done, sorry :)
[20:05] <iRon> Riddell: What to write in changelog: " -- Jonathan Riddell <jriddell@...> ..." ?
[20:06] <iRon> Riddell: or it doesn't metter?
[20:06] <jpatrick> iRon: your name and email
[20:06] <iRon> ok
[20:10] <nosrednaekim> ouch... http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3167?page=1
[20:16] <ardchoille> I'm getting an rkhunter warning on /usr/bin/find. Has that file changed recently?
[20:48] <uga> guys, do you know if kubuntu adjusts gamma settings somewhere?
[20:48] <nosrednaekim> uga: systemsettings->monitor and disply
[20:48] <uga> nosrednaekim: on the system level, that goes where, xorg.conf?
[20:49] <uga> I'm having problems with gamma in a kde4 setup (installed from svn)
[20:49] <nosrednaekim> uga: I think... really don't know.
[20:49] <uga> it's much darker than the kde3 desktop, and I cant' see why
[20:49] <uga> it's completely unusable for photography
[20:50] <nosrednaekim> can you adjust your monitor brightness (with hardware)
[20:50] <uga> yes, but I'm not changing it myself
[20:50] <jpatrick> jussi01: and they carry on..
[20:50] <uga> just switching from vt7 to vt8
[20:51] <nosrednaekim> ah... I see
[20:51] <uga> and one shows the photo much more washed out, as if brightness was bumped
[20:52] <nosrednaekim> why don't you adjust the gamma controls in the kde3 system settings until it looks like the kde4 one, then adjust the hardware...
[20:52] <uga> I could do that, thanks
[20:53] <uga> I'd prefer knowing what kubuntu does though, because I don't see it in xorg
[20:53] <uga> it does something nice, because it's properly callibrated (more or less)
[20:53] <nosrednaekim> yeah
[21:02] <uga> nosrednaekim: okay, I opened the gamma settings option, didn't change anything, just applied again
[21:03] <uga> now both desktops show the same gamma
[21:03] <uga> nosrednaekim: thanks. I only need to figure out where the setting goes
[21:03] <uga> and what changed it to make it right ;)
[21:03] <uga> (kgamma or similar, possibly)
[21:03] <uga> nosrednaekim: thanks for the help
[21:12] <iRon> jpatrick: is there any public ftp or some other service where i could upload my kdebase_3.5.8-2ubuntu9.diff.gz/dsc ?
[21:13] <CheGuevara> launchpad :P
[21:13] <iRon> CheGuevara: in code ?
[21:13] <CheGuevara> open a bug
[21:13] <jpatrick> iRon: debdiff kdebase_3.5.8-2ubuntu8.dsc kdebase_3.5.8-2ubuntu9.dsc > kdebase-superfix.debdiff
[21:14] <iRon> got it..
[21:14] <CheGuevara> then reference that bug in your changelog like (LP: #xxxxx)
[21:14] <CheGuevara> and attach in the bug
[21:14] <CheGuevara> so the bug will auto closed when it gets uploaded
[21:35] <mhb> woohoo
[21:35] <mhb> just one and a half hour till my next blogpost!
[21:39] <jpatrick> anyone porting apt:/ ?
[21:40] <CheGuevara> the kio? don't think so
[21:44] <iRon> oh, i'm a god in kioslaves programming now :-)
[21:44] <iRon> do we need some new kioslaves? ;-)
[21:45] <CheGuevara> lol
[21:45] <mhb> jpatrick: to KDE4? not yet, I guess.
[21:45] <CheGuevara> iRon, apt:/ kioslave needs porting to KDE 4 :)
[21:46] <CheGuevara> what are we using as a package manager on kde 4?
[21:46] <iRon> CheGuevara: no problem.. right after i finish bullet-proof-x :)
[21:47]  * CheGuevara hugs iRon 
[21:47] <uga> okay, I found what's going on... it seems kubuntu's systemsettings directly alters xorg.conf (and breaks other settings I had done manually, btw)
[21:48] <uga> but then some external app is altering gamma settings differently for kde4 and kde4
[21:48] <uga> but then some external app is altering gamma settings differently for kde4 and kde3
[21:48] <jpatrick> iRon: I think Eduardiyo would like to help out with that :)
[21:49] <iRon> jpatrick: with bullet-proof-x? or apt:/ kio?
[21:49] <jpatrick> iRon: bullet-proof-x
[21:50] <iRon> Eduardiyo: have you started with ^^^ ?
[21:50] <uga> I wonder if that's lprof or kgamma
[21:51] <jpatrick> iRon: he's a new hopeful
[21:51] <CheGuevara> bullet-proof-x affects kdm right
[21:52] <jpatrick> yep
[21:52] <iRon> CheGuevara: yes it does
[21:52] <CheGuevara> was just thinking about kdm 3 vs kdm 4
[21:54] <iRon> CheGuevara: there is no much difference between kdm 3 and kdm 4..
[21:54] <iRon> CheGuevara: checked already
[21:54] <CheGuevara> ah cool
[21:57] <\sh> damn...I'm still listed to be responsible for some gentoo ebuilds...
[22:14] <iRon> Riddell, jpatrick: Bug #178351 (debdiff included)
[22:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 178351 in kdebase "failed to mount ntfs user disk with kiomedia" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178351
[22:15] <jpatrick> iRon: subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsers - I'm not core-dev :)
[22:15] <iRon> jpatrick: oh.. :)
[22:16] <jpatrick> iRon: may one day... ;)
[22:17] <Riddell> iRon: looking
[22:21] <Riddell> iRon: uploaded, thanks
[22:21] <iRon> Riddell: yw!
[22:36] <Eduardiyo> iRon: i not started whit this because im new like develop in linux, see you tomorrow :P
[22:37] <iRon> Eduardiyo: ok
[22:41] <mhb> hey RadiantFire
[22:42] <cheguevara> hmmm did somethign in kdelibs fail
[22:42] <cheguevara> they've been kept back for a while now
[22:43] <Riddell> cheguevara: which kdelibs?
[22:43] <jpatrick> cheguevara: it might be that soyuz bug
[22:44] <cheguevara> 4:3.97.0-3ubuntu1
[22:44] <cheguevara> jpatrick, the one that eats binaries?
[22:44] <Riddell> cheguevara: probably the libgif transition
[22:44] <cheguevara> duh (says the one who did that change)
[22:44] <Riddell> cheguevara: poke nixternal to see when he plans to upload the rest
[22:45] <cheguevara> Riddell, i am going through rdepends posting debdiffs, done quiet a lot so far
[22:45] <cheguevara> but i wanted to ask
[22:45] <cheguevara> some dont build-depend on ungiflib, just run time depend, so there are no changes to control
[22:45] <cheguevara> how do i go about those
[22:47] <Riddell> cheguevara: they must bring it in somehow, something it build-deps on much itself depend on libungif
[22:47] <cheguevara> ah right
[22:48] <nixternal> I am redoing my build box
[22:48]  * nixternal did a booboo
[22:48] <cheguevara> lol
[22:48] <cheguevara> what did you do
[22:49] <nixternal> rm -rf'd the wrong directories :p
[22:49] <nixternal> I thought I was in the chroot, but I wasn't
[22:49] <cheguevara> ouch
[22:49] <jpatrick> s/wrong directories/root
[22:49] <cheguevara> lol
[22:49] <nixternal> pretty much so
[22:49] <cheguevara> worst thing i've done was deleted my /home/cheguevara
[22:49] <cheguevara> no back ups whatsoever
[22:50] <nixternal> I usually change the bash prompts to a different color to know that I am not in a chroot, but I hadn't done that on my build box
[22:50] <nixternal> luckily for me though, I have daily backups
[22:50] <yuriy> how do i build adept from bzr? (there's no makefile or configure.in ... )
[22:50] <nixternal> although there was nothing really on my build box worth saving, except all of the directories under / :p
[22:50] <jpatrick> yuriy: I think the lastest code is apt-get source adept
[22:51] <cheguevara> there's a Makefile.in
[22:51] <cheguevara> and m4 macros
[22:53] <cheguevara> hmm *trying to figure out what depends on ungif*
[22:54] <yuriy> cheguevara: where do i go from there? (i don't know how to work automake, in my little experience kdevelop has done it for me)
[22:54] <jpatrick> yuriy: make -f Makefile.cvs work?
[22:54] <Riddell> yuriy: make -f debian/rules buildprep
[22:54] <Riddell> which will do what jpatrick says but apply patches first
[22:54] <yuriy> ah thanks Riddell
[22:55] <cheguevara> aclocal && autoconf && automake
[22:55] <cheguevara> :P
[22:56] <cheguevara> except aclocal is already there
[22:56] <cheguevara> and there's no configure.ac :P
[22:59] <yuriy> make -f debian/rules buildprep
[22:59] <yuriy> test -x debian/rules
[22:59] <yuriy> test "`id -u`" = 0
[22:59] <yuriy> make: *** [testroot] Error 1
[22:59] <yuriy> oh, i have to sudo to build it?
[23:14] <mhb> so, how is KDE4 working for you?
[23:19] <Riddell> yuriy: use fakeroot
[23:19] <Riddell> ooh ooh, I'm a year older where you are mhb!
[23:20] <cheguevara> are we all signing the bday song soon :)
[23:21] <yuriy> Riddell's a year older? uhoh we can't ask him so many questions anymore, the senility might start kicking in
[23:21] <yuriy> :P
[23:23] <mhb> Riddell: do you have to spoil everything?
[23:24] <mhb> Riddell: cant you see I am waiting for your time zone?
[23:25] <mhb> Riddell: no presents before 00:00 in your TZ :o)
[23:29] <Riddell> but there's all those presents on top of the wardrobe!
[23:29] <Riddell> just wanting to be opened
[23:30] <nosredna_ekim> itsn't it nice having your B-day this close to Christmas? you get double...the.... oh.. never mind :D
[23:31] <mhb> you will be a year closer to your 30th birthday, the day when you stop being young
[23:31] <toma> thnxs
[23:33] <mhb> hmm
[23:34] <Riddell> I do enjoy getting older
[23:34] <mhb> according to the Goverment of Tasmania, you are young just until 25.
[23:34] <Riddell> oh in most places in Africa you're young up to about 50
[23:34] <Riddell> gave us great problems during the World Gathering of Young Friends
[23:34] <Jucato> nosredna_ekim: actually it's worse having your birthday close to Christmas. people will give you gifts that serve both as your birthday present and christmas present :)
[23:34] <iRon> mhb: my laptop with kde4 is very heated all the time.. so i switched back to kde3
[23:34] <nosredna_ekim> Tasmania isn't in Africa...
[23:35] <nosredna_ekim> Jucato: I know... I was being sarcastic ;)
[23:35] <Riddell> nosredna_ekim: I know, just a similar example
[23:35] <mhb> it has its advantages
[23:35] <mhb> for example, I remembered Riddells birthday
[23:35] <nosredna_ekim> Riddell: ah.. ok :D
[23:36] <mhb> of course, he has it easy, being the number one
[23:36]  * mhb should go create his own distribution
[23:37] <mhb> :o)
[23:37] <mhb> well I would go, if yours was not that awesome :o)
[23:39] <nixternal> Riddell: Happy Birthday (somewhere in the world)! :)
[23:40] <mhb> come on people, cant you wait?
[23:40]  * mhb waits 2 hours now for it
[23:40] <nixternal> just in case I am not around, better than a belated
[23:40]  * toma prepares champagne and cake
[23:40] <Jucato> Maligayang Kaarawan Riddell from the Philippines (which is usually ahead of everyone else...)
[23:40]  * nixternal ate the cake
[23:40] <mhb> the cake is a lie.
[23:40] <Jucato> (in timezones of course... technology wise, we're always behind)
[23:40] <nixternal> Kake
[23:40] <Riddell> there's 20 minutes yet!
[23:40]  * toma pulls out another cake
[23:41]  * nosredna_ekim gulps it down
[23:41]  * toma grabs an axe
[23:41]  * mhb eats it
[23:41] <nixternal> 18:00 CST == Riddell->increaseAge(1);
[23:41] <Jucato> eating the axe? now that's something you don't see everyday
[23:41] <nixternal> lol
[23:41] <toma> ;-)
[23:42] <Jucato> strawberry coated axe. hm... why does the strawberry taste very salty and not sweet? O.o
[23:42] <mhb> iRon: that is bad to hear ... any specific reason? strigi going to 100% perhaps?
[23:43] <nosredna_ekim> Jucato: it has high iron content... don't worry, its good for you
[23:44] <iRon> mhb: no.. system is even 99% idle
[23:44] <mhb> strange.
[23:44] <iRon> yep
[23:44] <Jucato> :D
[23:44] <mhb>  fifteen minutes left
[23:44] <Jucato> yay! nice pre-Christmas gift! no water for the day :)
[23:48] <Riddell> Jucato: why's that?
[23:49] <Jucato> dunno. water suddenly got cut off. we're still waiting for some explanation :(
[23:49] <toma> 10 minutes
[23:49]  * nosredna_ekim higs his well
[23:49] <nosredna_ekim> *hugs! man! why can't I type correctly.
[23:49]  * Jucato looks up the definition of "hig"
[23:49] <Jucato> um.. because you're you? :D
[23:52] <nosredna_ekim> I'm me.... oh... what a complement
[23:52] <mhb> human interface guidelines
[23:52] <mhb> that's hig
[23:52] <Jucato> ah yes! how could I have forgotten :)
[23:53]  * Jucato never realized nosredna_ekim was so HIG compliant :)
[23:53] <nosredna_ekim> ha? me? you don't wanna see my guis :D
[23:54] <jpatrick> nosredna_ekim: however bad they are, trust me, they are nothing compared to the UIs I see done at my school
[23:54] <Jucato> ha! you can't see mine. (because they only exist in the hard disk known as "My Brain")
[23:54] <mhb> I am ready
[23:54] <jpatrick> Jucato: I thought that meltdowned ages ago...
[23:55] <nosredna_ekim> all except for the Jucato Data Core
[23:55] <Jucato> I managed to save parts of mine. but that does explain why I'm missing a few things :)
[23:55] <mhb> and then there were five
[23:57] <claydoh_233mhz> msg nickserv ghost claydoh 07Savannah
[23:57] <toma> oops
[23:57] <mhb> three
[23:58] <jpatrick> claydoh_233mhz: change pass quick!
[23:58] <mhb> you've got a few minutes before it is stored in the logs.
[23:58] <clay_233mhz> lol
[23:58] <nosredna_ekim> ah...my clock is right on time :D
[23:59] <mhb> mine too, I just synchronized with the local NTP server.
[23:59] <toma> ....drums...
[23:59] <toma> Vorian: just in time!
[23:59]  * Riddell feels young
[23:59] <nixternal> HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU! HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU! HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR Riddell! HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YYYYYYYOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUU!