[00:00] <jpatrick> happy birthday Riddell!!!!
[00:00] <Vorian> werd toma!
[00:00] <cheguevara> HAPPY BDAY RIDEL!!
[00:00] <nixternal> damn....I hit it 1 second to early
[00:00] <toma> Happy birthday Riddell
[00:00] <iRon> Riddell: Heartily Congrats!
[00:00] <Nightrose> happy birtday Riddell \o/
[00:00] <nixternal> woohoooooooo
[00:00] <Vorian> HAPPY BIRTHDAY Riddell!!!!111one one
[00:00] <Jucato> Happy Birthday Lleddir (leader... as mhb so creatively noticed)
[00:00] <nixternal> our young man is growing up...I am so, *chokes up* proud *wipes tear*
[00:00] <Vorian> lol
[00:00] <cheguevara> haha
[00:00] <Riddell> wheee
[00:00] <toma> lol
[00:00] <Riddell> I love you guys
[00:00] <nosredna_ekim> happy birthday!
[00:00] <Riddell> group hug
[00:00] <Jucato> :D
[00:01] <jpatrick> and we love you!
[00:01] <Nightrose> ;-)
[00:01] <nixternal> congrats Riddell! and here is to many more great years!
[00:01] <yuriy> Happy birthday Riddell !!!
[00:01] <cheguevara> we love you too :)
[00:01] <mhb> Riddell: check planet in a few minutes
[00:01] <nixternal> <3
[00:01] <toma> haha
[00:01] <NickPresta> Happy Birthday, Mr. Riddell
[00:01] <nixternal> Riddell: hurry up and open your presents, there is still a lot of work to be done :p
[00:01] <Riddell> aww, thanks NickPresta
[00:01]  * Jucato sneaks to the table to get some food instead
[00:01] <toma> Riddell: how young are you now?
[00:02] <mhb> Jucato: food at 01:00 am?
[00:02] <mhb> :o)
[00:02] <Riddell> toma: a very mature and wisened 26
[00:02] <nixternal> muhehehe
[00:02] <Jucato> at 08:00 :)
[00:02] <voyager> felicidades  riddell
[00:03] <Riddell> voyager: what are those?
[00:03] <toma> Riddell: wow!
[00:03] <mhb> Riddell: všechno nejlepší ( my bets on you using non-UTF8 irssi again)
[00:04] <Riddell> mhb: I'll try and imagine those question marks as Czech characters :)
[00:04] <nixternal> lol
[00:04] <nixternal> I can see them mhb, so not all is lost :)
[00:04] <Jucato> I only saw "felicidades riddell"
[00:04] <yuriy> well then
[00:04] <yuriy> с днём рождения!
[00:05] <nixternal> ooh, the one character in the yuriy looks like the little thing from space invaders
[00:05] <cheguevara> с днём рождения :)
[00:05] <nixternal> s/the/that
[00:05] <nixternal> same with your cheguevara
[00:05] <jpatrick> nixternal: rofl
[00:05] <cheguevara> well its the same language lol
[00:05] <nixternal> man, I can't type
[00:05] <nixternal> ya, I put that together after the fact :)
[00:05] <iRon> с днём рождения и от меня :-)
[00:05] <nixternal> ok, now you just cussed me out I think :)
[00:06] <cheguevara> heh we got quiet a lot of Russian-speaking people now :)
[00:06] <yuriy> russians crawling out of the web-work
[00:06] <Jucato> maligayang bati! maligayang bati!
[00:06] <nixternal> which is great, so when I have issues with kubuntu-docs building the russian translations, I know where to go for help :)
[00:06] <nosredna_ekim> one of you guys go find Nina Reiser..k?
[00:06] <mhb> Riddell: check planet.ubuntu.com now
[00:06] <nixternal> oh man, that was low
[00:06] <cheguevara> funniest thing none of us actually live in Russia
[00:07] <cheguevara> nosredna_ekim: even if he gets freed Linus still won't accept it :P
[00:07] <mhb> Riddell: for your birthday present (well, sort of, but it was planned ahead so it counts)
[00:08] <nosredna_ekim> cheguevara: hehe
[00:08] <yuriy> nixternal: there is a character inside of me that looks like a thing from space invaders?
[00:08] <Riddell> mhb: fantastic!
[00:08] <nixternal> not you, but the line you wrote
[00:08] <nixternal> this character here -> д
[00:08] <cheguevara> that would be a d
[00:09] <cheguevara> :P
[00:09] <mhb> Riddell: I'm glad you like it.
[00:09] <yuriy> nixternal: i know :D < nixternal> ooh, the one character _in the yuriy_ looks like ...
[00:09] <nixternal> nixternдl
[00:09] <nixternal> :)
[00:09] <cheguevara> lol
[00:09] <yuriy> никстернал
[00:09] <nixternal> ya, I can't type yuriy
[00:10] <mhb> niжternдl
[00:10] <cheguevara> Riддell
[00:10] <cheguevara> there u go
[00:10] <claydoh> dang
[00:11] <toma> claydoh: did you change the password?
[00:11] <cheguevara> http://darkmonkey.org.uk/4/1/got_crypto.jpg
[00:11]  * claydoh forgot how different this 10 year old lappy's keyboard is
[00:11] <claydoh> toma: sure did
[00:11] <nixternal> haha, that picture is great
[00:11] <Jucato> lol
[00:12] <toma> 26...
[00:12] <toma> cheguevara: lol
[00:12] <claydoh> well the new wireless card works.........
[00:12] <claydoh> ....in win2k lol
[00:13]  * claydoh debates u buntu server over dsl/puppy for this 233mhz doorstop
[00:13] <jpatrick> well I'm really off to bed now
[00:14] <nosredna_ekim> claydoh: fluxbuntu
[00:14] <jpatrick> merry x'mas everyone
[00:14] <claydoh> nah, too heavy :)
[00:14] <Jucato> twm? :D
[00:15] <nosredna_ekim> qlwm
[00:15] <claydoh> but flux wil be the wm I will use
[00:15] <nosredna_ekim> anyway.... Happy birthday... and good night everyone else :D
[00:15] <jpatrick> yeah, +1^^
[00:16] <claydoh> anyhoo I gotta stop leeching off the 4 open wirelss points this picks up and turn on the wirelss in my router
[00:16] <claydoh> now that i have a card
[00:26] <mhb> Riddell: your website contents are awesome
[00:26] <Riddell> mhb: aren't they all horribly out of date>?
[00:26] <mhb> Riddell: do you remember talking about KDE4 just after Hoary was out?
[00:27] <Riddell> oh KDE 4 has been talked about for as long as I've been in KDE (almost)
[00:27] <mhb> funny that you are a bit sad now that we're finally adopting it :o)
[00:28] <nixternal> bah! kdelibs5-dev patch didn't hit kdelibs5-dev on yesterdays update
[00:29] <nixternal> fixing and reuploading kdelibs5
[00:31] <mhb> I keep looking at your old KDE screenshots, thinking from where we've come
[00:31] <mhb> I guess we should try and convince another distro to use the guidance confiuration tools
[00:31] <mhb> so there are more people actively maintaining it
[00:31] <Riddell> mhb: I know fedora were looking at packaging it
[00:32] <mhb> some of the apps, like disks-admin, are quite a mess now
[00:32] <mhb> err mountconfig
[00:32]  * mhb gets confused by the GNOMEy names
[00:34] <mhb> Carol Vorderman?
[00:34]  * mhb looks her up
[00:35] <Riddell> random game show host
[00:37] <mhb> well, I think our work is done
[00:37] <mhb> we've got nothing more on our TODO
[00:37] <mhb> http://jriddell.org/programs/kubuntu-lugradio-talk-06-2005/pics/slide_3.png
[00:37] <mhb> except maybe a good APT frontend is still missin
[00:38] <Riddell> score!
[00:38] <Riddell> adept is very much better than what we had at the time
[00:39] <txwikinger> nixternal: da Bears!
[00:39] <nixternal> woohoo!
[00:39] <nixternal> about time
[00:39] <ScottK2> Personally, I find apt to be a very good front end for apt.
[00:39] <nixternal> hehe
[00:39] <nixternal> adept
[00:40] <Jucato> class TestApp ftw! :)
[00:40] <nixternal> hahaha
[00:40] <nixternal> took me a second to remember what TestApp was from
[00:40] <Jucato> :P
[00:41] <Jucato> adept/manager/app.h :D
[00:41] <yuriy> oh good to know i wasn't the only one befuddled by that one. i figured i was missing something
[00:42] <Jucato> actually I think I might have been wrong.
[00:42] <mhb> ooo, I know what we should get Riddell next year
[00:42] <txwikinger> what is wrong w3ith adept?
[00:42] <Jucato> TestApp isn't Adept's main class. it's an Adept Manager class derived from libadept's main class. class Application :)
[00:43] <Jucato> txwikinger: hm... 'tis the season to be loving. so I'll refrain from saying :)
[00:44] <Riddell> txwikinger: it's hard to maintain
[00:44] <nixternal> could we use synaptic for the time being since adept isn't cutting it?
[00:44] <Riddell> no
[00:44] <nixternal> I know it is gtk and what not, but it works well in Kubuntu
[00:44] <Jucato> it's quite the beast, source code wise and UI wise :)
[00:45] <txwikinger> it took me a while to get used to adept's user interface
[00:45] <Riddell> night
[00:45] <nixternal> g'nite Riddell
[00:45] <Jucato> good night Riddell! happy birthday again! :)
[00:45] <cheguevara> night Riddell
[00:45] <txwikinger> synaptic was more intuitive for me.
[00:45] <txwikinger> night Riddell
[00:45] <mhb> goodnight
[00:46] <cheguevara> mhb, what?
[00:46] <cheguevara> (should we get Riddel)
[00:46] <cheguevara> Ridell even
[00:47] <cheguevara> arrgh
[00:47] <cheguevara> Riddell :P
[00:47] <nixternal> hahaha
[00:47] <Jucato> !tab | cheguevara
[00:47] <ubotu> cheguevara: You can use <tab> for autocompletion of nicknames in IRC, as well as for completion of filenames and programs on the command line.
[00:48] <nixternal> pwnd
[00:48] <cheguevara> meh
[00:48] <cheguevara> yes i know
[00:48] <nixternal> cheguevara: I am stupid..I think I manually added your patch yesterday because of the merging and what not, and I forgot to hit up the kdelibs5-dev too
[00:48] <mhb> well I can't say it here
[00:49] <mhb> he might read it
[00:49] <cheguevara> mhb /query then :P
[00:49] <nixternal> hehe
[00:49] <nixternal> kick him, and then say it :)
[00:49] <cheguevara> nixternal: nice one and I was wondering why its refusing to upgrade :)
[00:49] <Jucato> or let's all go to a #channel-for-Riddell's-secret-gift :)
[00:49] <nixternal> ya, I just went to install some build-deps and it yelled at me
[00:49] <nixternal> cheguevara: it should be updated within the hour I am guessing
[00:50]  * nixternal needs something to eat..brb
[00:50]  * Jucato needs someone to eat too
[00:50] <Jucato> lol did I just make toma leave? D
[00:50] <Jucato> :D
[00:50] <cheguevara> lol
[00:51] <cheguevara> http://www.switchnetwork.net/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=83&g2_serialNumber=2
[00:53] <mhb> cheguevara: did you get my query?
[00:54] <cheguevara> ah crap msgs are blocked 'cause i am not identified
[00:54] <cheguevara> sorry didn't notice
[00:54] <Jucato> !register
[00:54] <ubotu> By default, only registered users can send private messages - Information about  registering your Freenode nick can be found at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
[00:54] <Jucato> bwahahah! )
[00:54] <Jucato> :)
[00:55] <cheguevara> been registered for time
[00:55] <Jucato> (why do I keep forgetting to put eyes on my smileys)
[00:55] <Jucato> yeah. just felt like triggering the bot unnecessarily
[00:55] <Jucato> :D
[00:55] <cheguevara> !lag
[00:55] <ubotu> You have lag, I don't have lag
[00:55] <cheguevara> :P
[00:56] <mhb> good night folks
[00:56] <mhb> enjoy this special day
[00:56] <mhb> merry christmas
[00:58] <cheguevara> you too mhb, good night
[01:25] <nixternal> "Ubuntu (and its siblings Kubuntu, Edubuntu and Xubuntu) has smoothed most of Linux’s geeky edges while polishing it for the desktop."
[01:25] <nixternal> that is from the economist...one of the most read business magazines in the US
[01:27] <cheguevara> nice :P
[01:43] <uga> nixternal: I've read great stupidities from some of the most read newspapers in the US, so I'm nto sure if that's good ;)
[01:44] <uga> I hope this is no such case :P
[01:44] <nixternal> nah, the economist is w/o a doubt one of the best mags there are
[01:44] <nixternal> newspapers usually are crap, that's why I don't read them
[02:06] <harda> Riddell: Happy Birthday, and thanks for all of your work on Kubuntu.
[02:11] <yuriy> what's the difference beween adept/adept and adept/libadept?
[02:15] <Jucato> yuriy: trying to wade through adept's code? just before christmas? highly discouraged :)
[02:16] <yuriy> Jucato: nobody wants to go skiing with me on christmas so i'm making it a coding day
[02:16] <Jucato> well skiing alone won't be as life-threatening as looking through adept's code :)
[02:17] <Jucato> think of adept's source code as that circle in The Ring :)
[02:21] <Jucato> yuriy: but imho, adept needs a sort of code review and lots of cleanup... *if* we're still interested in keeping it in the long run
[02:21] <Jucato> (although not really sure how that stands with mornfall)
[02:23] <DaSkreech> Jucato: we could move to klik :)
[02:23] <nosrednaekim> I doubt adept is going to be rewritten in qt4..
[02:23] <Jucato> nah... :)
[02:23] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: ditto
[02:24] <Jucato> let's keep klik as klik and not let it be confused as a full package manager :)
[02:24] <Jucato> it will only hurt klik otherwise :)
[02:26] <DaSkreech> nosrednaekim: Why?
[02:27] <nosrednaekim> DaSkreech: because the code is a mess (from what I have heard) it would probably make more sense to port synaptic to qt4
[02:27] <Jucato> and depends on where Ubuntu will take us w/ packagekit...
[02:28] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: you can always download the source code and see for yourself :)
[02:28] <Jucato> don't take our word for it :P
[02:28] <DaSkreech> Guess I'll look into packagekit agaimn
[02:28] <DaSkreech>  that's the new saviour of Linux packaging?
[02:28] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: I don't even know C++... so...
[02:29] <Jucato> maybe... yes or no... depends on what you want
[02:29] <DaSkreech> !dolphin
[02:29] <ubotu> Dolphin, or more properly D3lphin, is the new default file manager for Kubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon. If you would like to make Konqueror your default file manager again, go to Konqueror - Settings menu - Configure Konqueror - File Associations and change the association for inode/directory and inode/system_directory to Konqueror at the top rather than Dolphin.
[02:29] <nosrednaekim> mhb: detests it <_<
[02:30] <DaSkreech> I like adept :-(
[02:30] <Jucato> like it enough to fix it and port it to qt4? :)
[02:30] <Jucato> 2 things are needed to "fix" adept: code cleanup and UI changes... basically making it a new app :)
[02:31] <DaSkreech> possibly but if we are dumping the overall thing then it would just be a personal revolution
[02:31] <yuriy> DaSkreech: like it enough to help me get it to build with cmake?
[02:31] <Jucato> I think we're dumping adept more because it's hard to maintain... but if someone were to maintain it and transform it to something more maintainable :)
[02:32] <Jucato> eeeek! good luck yuriy :)
[02:32] <Vorian> how do you add your gpg key to the .bashrc?
[02:32] <Vorian> and hello :)
[02:32]  * Jucato lights a candle for yuriy
[02:32] <nosrednaekim> Vorian: why would you want to do that?
[02:32] <DaSkreech> yuriy: I could certainly look into it ;)
[02:32] <DaSkreech> I'd have to get back to my Linux machine though
[02:32] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: so that you won't have to be asked everytime you create a package?
[02:33]  * DaSkreech mourns his long lost bird
[02:33] <Vorian> erm... autosigning :)
[02:33] <nosrednaekim> oh... my bad :D
[02:33] <Vorian> export GPG #######?
[02:33] <Vorian> np nosrednaekim :)
[02:34] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: you thought he meant putting his secret key in there? :)
[02:34]  * nosrednaekim shamefully nods his head
[02:34] <Jucato> yay! perfect time for no water... hottest (and I mean the temperature) christmas evah!
[02:36] <DaSkreech> Not the new designer suits on the Lil Miss Elves?
[02:36] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: do yu have any bottled water?
[02:36] <nosrednaekim> or anything to drink?
[02:36] <Jucato> yeah fortunately we still have some...
[02:36] <Jucato> don't know how long it's gonna last though...
[02:36] <DaSkreech> How long have you had no water?
[02:37] <Jucato> the village's (subdivision or whatever you call it there) water tank's transformer went poof
[02:37] <Jucato> since this morning (3-4 hours ago)
[02:37] <DaSkreech> oh
[02:37] <Jucato> Vorian: export GPGKEY=@#$@$#%@$ (you forgot the = sign)
[02:37] <DaSkreech> probably should have that sorted in 2 hours
[02:37] <Vorian> ah!
[02:38] <Vorian> ty Jucato :D
[02:38] <Jucato> sorry took some time to look it up :)
[02:38] <Jucato> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
[02:38] <Vorian> np
[02:38] <Jucato> DaSkreech: you have no idea how things work/how long things take over here :)
[02:38] <Jucato> and this is the day before christmas :)
[02:39] <DaSkreech> Well it would take about a day here
[02:39] <Jucato> "To make sure debuild finds the right gpg key you should set the DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL environment variables (in your ~/.bashrc for instance) to the name and email address you use for your gpg key and in the debian/changelog"
[02:39] <DaSkreech> ignoring the holiday "strike"
[02:39] <Jucato> (from the packaging guide)
[02:40]  * Jucato hates it that he has to basically relearn every packaging basics everytime he tries it... usually after 6 months...
[02:40] <Vorian> werd
[02:40] <Jucato> :D
[02:40] <Vorian> thanks a million Jucato :)
[02:41]  * Jucato thumbs up
[02:41] <Vorian> stupid = sign
[02:41] <Jucato> hehe :)
[02:41] <Jucato> in bash, you can't have any blank space around the = sign too :)
[02:41] <santiago-ve> nixternal, ping
[02:41] <Vorian> right-o
[02:42] <Jucato> (annoying ain't it? :P)
[02:42] <DaSkreech> Learn perl :-)
[02:42] <Vorian> yes it is, every time
[02:42] <Vorian> :)
[02:42]  * nosrednaekim barfs..
[02:42]  * santiago-ve runs away... from the perl world...
[02:42]  * Vorian steps aside
[02:43] <Vorian> new shoes
[02:43]  * Jucato thinks of perl as an overblown regexp language :)
[02:43]  * nosrednaekim hugs his Python
[02:43]  * nosrednaekim keeps his python from hugging back.
[02:43]  * Jucato hugs his int main(){}
[02:43]  * Jucato is hugged back by Qt O.o
[02:43] <Jucato> yeah right... in my dreams...
[02:44] <nixternal> santiago-ve: pong?
[02:44] <nixternal> grr
[02:44]  * santiago-ve is catched by PHP, and Python... and they place him on his QT bed 
[02:44] <santiago-ve> :)
[02:44] <Jucato> QT = Quicktime :)
[02:45] <santiago-ve> <.<
[02:45] <Jucato> Mac lover :P
[02:45] <santiago-ve> ok Qt ;)
[02:45] <nixternal> hahahah
[02:45] <Jucato> hahah :)
[02:45] <nixternal> freakin' frackin' kdepimlibs5
[02:45] <DaSkreech> awww Jucato  has a nice looking qt there
[02:45]  * santiago-ve throws a rotten apple... yeahh mac lover
[02:46] <Jucato> rotten apple... and since Apple's logo has a bite... I pity the poor guy who bit from it :)
[02:47] <Jucato> oooh! I know what santiago-ve's rotten apple looks like, and I know who took a bite out of it!!
[02:47] <Jucato> http://buranen.info/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/virtualbox140-about.jpg
[02:47] <Jucato> shiny radioactive apple! :D
[02:47] <santiago-ve> LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
[02:50] <santiago-ve> nixternal, first question.... why when i run sudo pbuilder build soprano_1.99~rc2-1.dsc
[02:51] <santiago-ve> i always get soprano_1.98.0~rc1-1 in the /var/cache/pbuilder/result
[02:51] <santiago-ve> dir?
[02:51] <nixternal> you shouldn't...that could be in there from building a previous release
[02:51] <nixternal> this is goooooofy
[02:51] <santiago-ve> <.<
[02:52] <Jucato> goof troop babababap babaloobab yeah!
[02:52] <santiago-ve> what you're doing, what i am doing, or both?
[02:52] <Jucato> what *it* is doing (my guess)
[02:53] <nixternal> OK, if you have KDE 4 packages installed from our repos, tell me where FindKDE4Internal.cmake is located
[02:54] <DaSkreech> Jucato: is the fire significant?
[02:54] <Jucato> fire?
[02:55] <DaSkreech> In the pic
[02:55] <Jucato> dunno. is the butterfly significant? I don't think so :P
[02:55] <nosrednaekim> lol, I love that picture
[02:55] <DaSkreech> MSN ?
[02:55] <DaSkreech> It's the windows coloured butterfly
[02:55] <DaSkreech> The stars would be Mandriva
[02:56] <DaSkreech> The Fire looks strange enough to be a logo
[02:58] <jjesse> evening
[02:59] <nosrednaekim> fire might be pioneer linux?
[03:13] <yuriy> DaSkreech: this is the first error that comes up trying to link: app.cpp:(.text+0x28ee): undefined reference to `_config
[03:14] <yuriy> cryptic to me since it's not something in source and not a missing include or anything
[03:14] <yuriy> and then there are just tons of things like that
[03:14] <DaSkreech> yuriy:There is no app.cpp?
[03:21] <yuriy> there is
[03:21] <Jucato> app.h/app.cpp are the most used/recopied files in adept :)
[03:22] <Jucato> there's one in every directory I think
[03:23]  * DaSkreech grins
[03:23] <DaSkreech> that's helpful
[03:23] <DaSkreech> Sounds like a rename is in order
[03:23] <yuriy> well this is about manager/app.cpp
[03:23] <DaSkreech> are they the same files? Or just the same name/
[03:23] <Jucato> slightly different I think... but still doesn't help (a lot!)
[03:25] <yuriy> they are different, but each of them contain class TestApp
[03:25] <Jucato> which is derived from class Application :)
[03:25]  * DaSkreech smells refactoring
[03:26] <Jucato> in libadept/application.h(.cpp)  (or adept/application.h(.cpp)) :)
[03:27] <yuriy> anyways so it's a linking error that i'm getting, possibly to do with moc?
[03:29]  * DaSkreech hops on Hobbsee
[03:30] <DaSkreech> and none of them call _config?
[03:30] <Jucato> where is it even defined? O.o
[03:31] <Jucato> in apt-pkg?
[03:31] <DaSkreech> can you trace tit?
[03:33] <yuriy> it's called from adept/adept/dpkgpm.cpp
[03:33] <yuriy> but i think all of adept/adept built fine
[03:33] <yuriy> s/called/used in
[03:33] <Jucato> it's used almost everywhere...
[03:34] <yuriy> Jucato: ?
[03:34] <Hobbsee> heya DaSkreech
[03:34] <DaSkreech> Hi
[03:35] <Jucato> _config is defined in apt-pkg/configuration.h
[03:36] <Jucato> libadept/acqprogress.cpp #include <apt-pkg/configuration.h>
[03:37] <Jucato> it might not be linking to APT libs?
[03:37]  * Jucato shrugs... that's as far as my knowledge goes :)
[03:38] <Jucato> _config is an object of class Configuration, defined in apt-pkg/configuration.h
[03:38] <DaSkreech> How are you Hobbsee ?
[03:38] <Jucato> lunch!
[03:38] <Jucato> hi Hobbsee
[03:38] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: i'm doing OK, but wondering why my irssi segfaulted.
[03:39] <DaSkreech> Irregular occurence?
[03:39] <DaSkreech> and it only breaks in one of the files so far yuriy ?
[03:39] <DaSkreech> Is that one any different from the other files?
[03:40] <yuriy> DaSkreech: what do you mean files...
[03:40] <DaSkreech> yuriy: Well _config is called from other app.c files right?
[03:40] <yuriy> i get the same errors for manager, installer, and notifier (if i disable the other components so it gets to them)
[03:40] <DaSkreech> and you said that parts have already been compiled
[03:41] <DaSkreech> so it might be somethign with the way this file is making the call
[03:43] <yuriy> it's probably something stupid i'm missing because i don't really know what i'm doing but wanted to give it a shot
[03:44] <DaSkreech> Well I'm getting ready for bed
[03:44] <DaSkreech> #kde4-devel might be able to provide a small flash of light
[03:44] <yuriy> k
[03:46]  * yuriy is confused between ept and apt-front
[03:52] <yuriy> huh i think i got past that one by linking to apt-front in adept/adept
[03:53] <yuriy> the rest of the errors are still there, next one is:
[03:53] <yuriy> commitprogress.cpp:(.text+0x861): undefined reference to `vtable for adept::CommitProgress'
[04:03] <Jucato> yuriy: that's still from linking adept/manager/app.cpp?
[04:05] <yuriy> Jucato: umm.. i think. but i also think i'm confused
[04:05] <Jucato> me too :)
[04:08] <Jucato> yuriy: maybe you left some components disabled when you were testing for the previous error?
[04:08] <Jucato> <-- nap
[04:11] <Hobbsee> sigh
[04:11] <Hobbsee> and of course, someone brings up the debian style releases, and tells us that we should do it for kubuntu
[04:25] <DaSkreech> Debian style releases?
[04:37] <Jucato>  as in release once every 2-3 years?
[04:38] <DaSkreech> I thought they had one like every day?
[04:40] <Hobbsee> havent they figured out that that's just going to create mroe work?
[04:40] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: stable, unstable, testing, etc.
[04:40] <Hobbsee> + hardy, gutsy, etc
[04:40] <DaSkreech> Why don't they do that for Ubuntu?
[04:41] <Hobbsee> not enough people
[04:41] <Hobbsee> no point
[04:41] <nixternal> why should they do it? that is actually the better question
[04:41] <Hobbsee> we're not debian
[04:42] <nixternal> no need to do it since we release every 6 months
[04:43] <nixternal> this debian merge for kde4 is really irritating me right now
[04:44] <DaSkreech> We would only need this while we are doing crazy relelases
[04:44] <DaSkreech> btw
[04:45] <nixternal> we already have it, it is called Debian
[04:45] <DaSkreech>  Hobbsee do we have a kubuntu3-desktop or a kubuntu4-desktop for hardy testing ?
[04:45] <Hobbsee> not yet
[04:45] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: see the meeting logs
[04:45] <Hobbsee> and hte minutes
[04:46] <nixternal> DaSkreech: we probably won't start doing the meta packages until after the holidays
[04:46] <DaSkreech> KDE3 is the default upgrade?
[04:46] <nixternal> yes
[04:46] <DaSkreech> nixternal: I don't mean now I mean for later
[04:46] <Hobbsee> [15:44] * Hobbsee ponders writing an email sometimes on what it all means in laymans terms
[04:46] <Hobbsee> [15:44] * Hobbsee sees the kubuntu-devel mialing list is bikeshedding, again
[04:46] <nixternal> nothing has changed except for a) we aren't LTS
[04:46] <DaSkreech> will we start testing beta KDE3 -> KDE4 upgrades at all?
[04:46] <nixternal> not until 8.10 probably
[04:47] <nixternal> maybe later
[04:47] <DaSkreech> ok
[04:48] <Hobbsee> and then blogging it
[04:48] <Hobbsee> hopefully it'lls top the questions
[04:48] <nixternal> WHAT?!?! :p
[04:48] <Jucato> Hobbsee: at least there's some life in there finally :)
[04:48] <nixternal> Hobbsee: it won't stop them at all
[04:48] <Jucato> (kubuntu-devel list I mean)
[04:48] <Hobbsee> Jucato: that's true
[04:48] <Hobbsee> nixternal: well, the ones who can't read should be shot.  this is simple.
[04:48] <nixternal> ya, just ignore them like we usually do :p
[04:48] <Hobbsee> it's called darwinism.
[04:49] <nixternal> hahahahaha
[04:49] <Hobbsee> survival of the fittest
[04:49] <Jucato> nixternalism then :)
[04:49]  * Hobbsee must have worked too much retail recently
[04:49] <nixternal> remove the warning labels and let the stupid ones weed themselves out
[04:49]  * Hobbsee needs to go there todya, too
[04:49] <Hobbsee> nixternal: 'xactly.
[04:49] <Jucato> todya... nice sound to that type :P
[04:49] <nixternal> thanks to Carlos Mencia for that line
[04:52]  * DaSkreech prods nixternal
[04:53] <DaSkreech> get your blogs on pk.o :-p
[04:53] <Jucato> that's not up to him already
[04:53] <nixternal> hehe
[04:54] <Jucato> it's a matter of clee responding :)
[04:57] <Jucato> we should probably establish planet.nixternal.com
[04:58] <nixternal> heh, I could do that
[04:58] <DaSkreech> No one would be worthy to geta visa
[04:58] <nixternal> a blog aggregator just for my blog
[04:58] <Jucato> hahah :)
[04:59] <nixternal> BAHBAHBAH#@!!
[04:59] <cheguevara> lol
[04:59] <nixternal> there is an issue with kdelibs5
[04:59] <cheguevara> what is it
[04:59] <Jucato> Nightrose: regarding your blog post about KDE4 on your old Sony VAIO, it would prolly be nice if you mentioned the specs for it. would be a great testament to the hardware that kde4 can (smoothly) run on. :)
[04:59] <Jucato> Nightrose: oh, and hoppy halidays!
[04:59] <Jucato> er.. I meant happy holidays
[05:00] <Jucato> hoppy...
[05:00] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49458
[05:00]  * Hobbsee work
[05:00] <Jucato> Hobbsee: on the day before christmas? O.o
[05:01] <nixternal> whenever I try to build against it, it doesn't pick up FindKDE4Internal.cmake from the correct place
[05:01] <Hobbsee> Jucato: unfortunately yes.  i finish at 10.15pm
[05:01] <Jucato> ouch...
[05:01] <nixternal> it is something to do with the latest debian merge
[05:01] <Hobbsee> yes.
[05:01] <cheguevara> hmmm thats not supposed to happen
[05:01] <Jucato> poor Hobbsee :(
[05:01] <nixternal> I have gone through cdbs/kde.mk and everything looks good, but it isn't
[05:01] <Jucato> but poor(er) nixternal :(
[05:02]  * DaSkreech dubgs nixternal  sir sheep
[05:02]  * nixternal looks through kde.mk again
[05:02] <nixternal> there is something I am missing that Debian put in
[05:02] <crimsun> heh, I have to work both days :-)
[05:02] <nixternal> since they aren't installing into /usr/lib/kde4 like we are
[05:03] <Jucato> crimsun: double ouch :(
[05:03] <cheguevara> did you double check you got all our changes?
[05:03] <nixternal> cheguevara: got all of our changes
[05:03] <Jucato> crimsun: I guess greeting you merry christmas might be pointless or insulting?
[05:03] <cheguevara> hmm
[05:04] <cheguevara> it finished building 2 hours ago
[05:04] <crimsun> Jucato: hardly.  I'll be around for bits.
[05:04] <cheguevara> am still missing kdelibs5 here
[05:04] <nixternal> kdelibs5 builds fine, but something is up, and I am wondering if it has to do with RPATH
[05:04] <Jucato> hm... I'm guessing RPATH has nothing to do with rPath?
[05:04] <cheguevara> actually i am lying
[05:05] <cheguevara> kdelibs5: Depends: libgif4 (>= 4.1.4) but it is not going to be installed
[05:05] <nixternal> I hightly doubt it, RPATH has been around forever
[05:05] <nixternal> libgif4?
[05:05] <nixternal> wtf
[05:05] <nixternal> it works here
[05:05] <nixternal> I swear, I will throw my computers in the toilet
[05:05] <cheguevara> nixternal, thats right
[05:05] <cheguevara> but somethign else depends on ungif
[05:05] <cheguevara> i cant figure out what
[05:06] <nixternal> forkin' libgif-dev does
[05:06] <cheguevara> huh?
[05:07] <nixternal> apt-cache rdepends libungif4-dev
[05:07] <cheguevara> umm
[05:07] <cheguevara> how does that work
[05:07] <nixternal> I have no idea, but something tells me that it is mistaken
[05:07] <nixternal> I am looking at libgif-dev and it has libungif4-dev as a conflict
[05:08] <cheguevara> it is
[05:08] <cheguevara> it conflicts/replaces
[05:08] <cheguevara> not depends
[05:08] <cheguevara> yeah
[05:08] <crimsun> you've just illustrated why I've said that you /don't/ use rdepends for that purpose.
[05:09] <crimsun> use apt-cache show binaryfoo|grep ^blah
[05:09] <nixternal> hehe, thanks for telling me that now
[05:10] <cheguevara> lol
[05:10]  * Jucato learned about apt-cache showsrc only yesterday :D
[05:10] <cheguevara> cheguevara@cheguevara-laptop:~$ sudo apt-get install libgif4 kdelibs5
[05:11] <cheguevara> wants to remove kubuntu-desktop
[05:11] <nixternal> that is awesome!
[05:11] <nixternal> that means it worked!
[05:11] <nixternal> BAH BAH BAH!#@!
[05:11] <crimsun> I hear you should get that new flashplugin-nonfree alongside it  ;)
[05:13] <cheguevara> nixternal, i bet you need to rebuild kdebase and friends against the new kdelibs
[05:13] <nixternal> I can't build anything against the new kdelibs, and that is what I am trying to do
[05:13] <cheguevara> oh yeah
[05:13] <cheguevara> yep kdebase depends on ungif
[05:15]  * cheguevara bets its not a build depends
[05:15]  * Jucato curses the water company while watching these developers wrestle w/ kde4-debian madness
[05:16] <cheguevara> lol whats wrong with the water company
[05:16] <Jucato> we have no water for....
[05:16] <Jucato> more than 5 hours now :)
[05:16] <Jucato> and 'tis the day before Christmas :)
[05:19] <nixternal> crimsun: you have any info on CMAKE_SKIP_PATH=true and what issues that may cause?
[05:19] <nixternal> s/_PATH/_RPATH
[05:20] <cheguevara> nixternal: just blame stdin
[05:20] <cheguevara> since he's not here he can't speak for himself :P
[05:20] <nixternal> I can't, he didn't have a kdelibs patch :)
[05:20] <cheguevara> :P
[05:23] <crimsun> nixternal: what's the context?
[05:23] <crimsun> (I haven't been following kdelibs5)
[05:23] <nixternal> I merged with Debian, it builds fine, but for some reason, the linking isn't correct
[05:24] <cheguevara> http://patches.ubuntu.com/s/scribus/extracted/03_cmake_rpath.dpatch
[05:24] <nixternal> so when I try to build packages against it, it doesn't find the correct files
[05:24] <nixternal> I am going to comment it out and do a quick build and see if that fixes it
[05:26] <nixternal> heh, I was watching the news tonight, and right at the beginning of our Chicago newscast, some idiot decided to ram the news studio in his car, scared the crap out of the anchorman, he jumped up and ran off
[05:27] <nixternal> watching Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN to see who says "It doesn't seem to be a terrorist attack at this time"
[05:27] <nixternal> I will go with either Fox or MSNBC
[05:28] <nixternal> they have gotten so bad, that they now say they believe any weather is not the immediate results of terrorists :p
[05:29]  * Jucato hugs his non-Debian, non-helpful, from-SVN kde4 :)
[05:30] <Jucato> aw... so it was an accident?
[05:30] <nixternal> no, he did it deliberately
[05:31] <Jucato> oh...
[05:31] <nixternal> someone pissed him off by telling him to move his car I guess
[05:31] <nixternal> so he moved it
[05:31] <Jucato> lol
[05:31] <nixternal> I would have been like, "dude, I thought it was a heated parking garage"
[05:31] <Jucato> mv car studio/
[05:32] <nixternal> only a whopping -28c here
[05:32] <nixternal> haha
[05:32] <Jucato> my hottest christmas evar!!
[05:32] <Jucato> and having no water to take a bath helps :D
[05:32] <Jucato> 86.3 F
[05:32] <nixternal> we still aren't going to have a white christmast
[05:33] <nixternal> it was 11c here this morning
[05:33] <Jucato> (that's 30.2c)
[05:33] <nixternal> or 52f
[05:33] <nixternal> I figured I was the only luser using imperial :p
[05:33] <Jucato> hahah
[05:34] <Jucato> at this rate we'll *never* have a white christmas... ever...
[05:34] <cheguevara> wow its 5:40 am
[05:34] <cheguevara> sleep might be a good idea :P
[05:35] <Jucato> nah
[05:35] <Jucato> it's a terrible idea. perish the thought!
[05:35] <cheguevara> lol
[05:35] <cheguevara> damn script kiddies
[05:35] <cheguevara> DC where my server is is being DDoSed
[05:35] <cheguevara> 5 GBit incoming
[05:36] <ardchoille> They just want you to see the next blockbuster hit :)
[05:36] <cheguevara> and 2.4 GBit capacity....
[05:36] <cheguevara> http://pastebin.ca/830731
[05:36] <nixternal> bbiaf, time to watch a lil tv while kdelibs5 builds again :)
[05:37] <cheguevara> very crappy traceroute
[05:37] <Jucato> no tv!
[05:37] <Jucato> merry christmas!!!!1111elevenone
[05:38] <teKnofreak> merry christmas!
[05:53] <KocKid> when I open the Terminal, the computer restarts....can someone help me ?
[06:08] <yuriy> merry christmas!
[06:08] <yuriy> Jucato: so much for mindless hacking, i'm going skiing.
[06:08] <Jucato> yuriy: that will definitely be more fun that adept hacking :)
[06:54] <nixternal> yup, that RPATH was the issues
[07:01] <nixternal> Riddell: take a look at kdelibs5, kde.mk has CMAKE_SKIP_RPATH=true in it...having it this way messes up other packages building against it, if I remove it, then I can build against it...see if it is OK to remove it, or if there needs to be a change elsewhere and then I will get the rest of the packages build and uploaded in the morning
[07:01]  * nixternal is crashing
[07:01] <nixternal> g'nite
[07:45] <Nightrose> Jucato: you are right - please remind me after christmas
[07:45] <Nightrose> and happy holidays to you all too
[10:36] <Riddell> nixternal: that can be removed
[10:37] <Riddell> has to be because of our funny path
[10:37] <Jucato> Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas Riddell :)
[10:37] <Riddell> it's not Christmas yet!
[10:37] <Riddell> at least not unless you're apachelogger_
[10:38] <Jucato> hehe no... I just might not be here in 5 hours (when it starts) :D
[10:38] <Jucato> is Hobbsee going to be the first to have Christmas? :D
[10:38] <ardchoille> Riddell: Your birthday is on Christmas day?
[10:39] <Jucato> ardchoille: no. today
[10:39] <Jucato> :)
[10:39] <ardchoille> Ah
[10:39] <ardchoille> Riddell: Happy birthday :)
[10:41] <Riddell> thanks ardchoille!
[10:50] <uga> Jucato: happy birthday! =)
[10:50] <Jucato> uga: not me :)
[10:51] <uga> Jucato: well, you responded =)
[10:51] <Jucato> lol
[10:51] <Jucato> cat uga > Riddell
[10:51] <uga> Riddell: let me know when you receive the MkIII I sent you
[10:55] <doc__> hi there
[10:55] <Riddell> uga: what's that?
[10:56] <Riddell> hi doc__
[10:57] <uga> Riddell: the Canon 1D MkIII I sent to you for birthday present
[10:58] <uga> ouch, wrong channel =)
[10:58] <uga> why did I think I was at #photogeeks =)
[10:58] <cheguevara> lol
[10:59] <uga> Riddell: sorry, that's one of the most loved cameras ever by photogs =) around 7keur, iirc
[10:59]  * uga recalls the packet and sends a konoqui puppet instead
[10:59] <uga> cheaper and more effective for a kubuntu geek
[10:59] <Riddell> uga: golly, thanks, I'll let you know when it turns up
[11:00] <uga> heh
[11:01] <teKnofreak> Riddell, happy birthday :)
[11:02] <Riddell> thanks teKnofreak!
[11:15] <doc__> Riddell: happy birthday :)
[11:42] <mhb> hi
[11:43] <mhb> and merry christmas!
[11:44] <mhb> ooh, a nice long mail from Keybuk
[11:58] <Jucato> wb mhb. merry christmas to you too :)
[11:59] <mhb> Jucato: thanks
[11:59] <mhb> Jucato: to you too
[11:59]  * Jucato doesn't know what to make of keybuk's response though...
[12:01] <mhb> it was a bit shuttleworthy
[12:02] <mhb> "It's the usual Shuttleworth strategy to keep everyone in hope as long as possible." from binner's post
[12:03] <Jucato> I don't think Canonical considered openSUSE's (or Mandriva's?) situations wrt KDE 3.5 either... (from binner's post too)
[12:03] <Jucato> that would answer the 2nd main question (in keybuk's mail)
[12:04] <Jucato> oh well...
[12:04] <mhb> I'm not sure how it is possible that Canonical could support Dapper, but cannot Hardy, given that the number of devs working on it has stayed the same
[12:04] <mhb> it's at its all time low, but also at its all-time high :o)
[12:12] <mhb> Jucato: also I remember you wanting to revive the testing community
[12:12] <mhb> Jucato: perhaps you should go for it, I don't have time to do that and also my bandwidth is very limited (cannot download ISOs every day)
[12:16] <Jucato> mhb: sorry stepped out. and needed to step out again...
[12:16] <Jucato> and my bandwidth is also very limited :(
[12:17]  * Jucato willl try to think... but needs to go :)
[12:20] <cheguevara> where's this email
[12:21] <jpatrick> which?
[12:22] <cheguevara> Keybuk's one
[12:23] <mhb> cheguevara: ML
[12:23] <cheguevara> kubuntu-devel ?
[12:23] <mhb> yes
[12:24] <cheguevara> aaaaaah i've read it
[12:24] <cheguevara> i just realised Scott James Remnant = keybuk :(
[12:25] <effie_jayx> Riddell: happy b-day :)
[12:27] <Riddell> thanks effie_jayx!
[12:27]  * jpatrick wonders how kmplayer ftbts on all archs apart from lpia
[12:28] <cheguevara> lol
[12:30] <\sh> moins
[12:30] <jpatrick> tag \sh
[12:30] <\sh> Ok, last time that I will go online during the celebration of Jonathans Birthday (oh I forgot, Jesus was born too ;)) ....
[12:30] <cheguevara> morning
[12:31] <mhb> Riddell: sooo, did you get any presents yet?
[12:31] <Riddell> one so far
[12:31] <mhb> what's that?
[12:32] <Riddell> mhb: the Borat book
[12:32] <Riddell> great success
[12:32] <\sh> So, Happy Birthday Jonathan...may all wishes come true for you and happy holidays, merry christmas , Joyeux Noël. Happy Hannukah , or whatever will be celebrated all over the world in all timezones in all religious believes :)
[12:33] <\sh> Carine and I are wishing all of you a very pieceful time :)
[12:33] <\sh> s/poieceful/peaceful/
[12:36] <Riddell> \sh: as a fundamentalist quaker I don't celebrate any religious days :)
[12:38] <mhb> no gifts for Riddell then
[12:39] <Riddell> ooh, hang on, I could be persuaded to change religion if there were presents
[12:39] <cheguevara> lol
[12:46] <ardchoille> lol
[12:49] <Jucato> late lol :)
[12:52]  * Jucato sends out holiday greetings to everyone, whether they want it or not :)
[12:53] <jpatrick> Jucato: it was calculated that if ubuntu-es.org sent an email with a 300kb image to all users, it'd result in a 45GB loss of bandwidth
[12:54] <Jucato> :)
[12:55] <Jucato> I can't send to all people in my addressbook though... not all celebrate the same thing, or celebrate anythign at all :)
[13:56] <nosrednaekim> ah... now that was a nice clear email from Scott....
[13:56] <Hobbsee> heh
[13:57] <nosrednaekim> well, at least it had some official reasoning in it...
[13:57] <nosrednaekim> instead of all of these rumors.
[13:57] <mhb> it had some reasoning in it.
[13:58] <mhb> the number of Canonical staff testing Kubuntu images is at its all time low, for example.
[13:58] <mhb> just one person
[13:58] <mhb> however, it was the same for Dapper and nobody really objected
[13:59] <Hobbsee> sure, but there were community people too
[13:59]  * Hobbsee didn't test this time around
[13:59] <mhb> I am not really surprised though.
[14:00] <mhb> it's not a fun task to do.
[14:00] <mhb> besides, you need a solid bandwidth with no limits, and such providers are rare here.
[14:00] <mhb> For example, I cannot really download 700MBs every day.
[14:01]  * nosrednaekim can't DL 70MB every day...
[14:01]  * toma is happy to be his own provider
[14:01] <mhb> I still think tasks such as packaging and testing should be automatized mostly.
[14:02] <Hobbsee> well, i didn't mind
[14:02]  * mhb dreams of virtual machine farms running a complex regression-testing evaluation script
[14:02] <Hobbsee> mhb: there is rsync.
[14:02] <Hobbsee> it's not 700mb each cd
[14:02] <mhb> it can be 500MB
[14:03] <mhb> but unless I have downloaded 0MB that week, my connection will be cut down to 64kbit
[14:03] <Hobbsee> ouch
[14:03] <mhb> evil providers.
[14:03] <Hobbsee> yup
[14:03] <Hobbsee> that sounds even worse than au ones
[14:04] <mhb> perhaps Canonical could pay for our net connection so we could DL it more often :o)
[14:04] <mhb> my point is: testing is eating a lot of bandwidth, and it's not much fun. Unless there are benefits, few will do it.
[14:05] <mhb> either let machines do it or think of a reward.
[14:05] <Hobbsee> there are plans to get more of it automated.
[14:05] <toma> everlasting fame
[14:06] <mhb> yeah, or two free copies of Linux (as Linux once said)
[14:06] <mhb> err, Linus
[14:06] <mhb> Hobbsee: if those plans come from Canonical, they don't involve Kubuntu at all.
[14:07] <Hobbsee> mhb: or don't they?
[14:07] <Hobbsee> mhb: qa helps with all of them, i thought
[14:07] <Hobbsee> like security
[14:08] <mhb> has there been an occasion when a Canonical employee fixed a Kubuntu-specific security bug?
[14:08] <mhb> except the man celebrating today, of course
[14:09] <Hobbsee> mhb: multiple ones, yes.
[14:09]  * mhb doesn't remember
[14:09] <Hobbsee> mhb: you probably don't see them, though, as we take their patches, and upload them.
[14:09] <Hobbsee> usually with other stuff too
[14:09] <Hobbsee> there are a fair few kdelibs / kdebase ones
[14:09] <Hobbsee> kdelibs, in particular
[14:09] <mhb> patched by?
[14:10] <iRon> About testing.. Hardy Alpha2 installation failed on my laptop.. Because of buggy linux kernel 2.6.24 :-(
[14:10] <mhb> Hobbsee: I'd like to hear the name of the Canonical employee so I can thank him.
[14:10] <mhb> Hobbsee: for fixing a Kubuntu-specific bug :o)
[14:10] <Hobbsee> mhb: keescook
[14:10] <Hobbsee> nice bloke.  met him twice.
[14:12] <mhb> okay.
[14:12] <mhb> still, I don't see them do it quite often.
[14:13] <mhb> rather, the reactions on #ubuntu-devel are quite often negative, as in "who cares, it's not Ubuntu"
[14:14] <Hobbsee> yes, but are tehy from developers, or users-who-are-just-pretending?
[14:14] <Hobbsee> seeing as there are some in there, who sound like developers
[14:14] <Hobbsee> but really arent.
[14:15] <nosrednaekim> most ubuntu users don't care (from the one's i've talked to on in my Loco)
[14:16] <nosrednaekim> iRon: well, it IS a release candidate..
[14:17] <mhb> Hobbsee: well, developers are more careful with words.
[14:21] <mhb> I sense the gap between first and second class is increasing.
[14:22] <mhb> also these secret decision in the middle of the release cycle remind of Novell, not Canonical of old.
[14:22]  * mhb regrets saying this at Riddell's birthday,
[14:22] <mhb> .
[14:26]  * Hobbsee suspects tehy've been discussing for a while
[14:26] <Hobbsee> besides - when did kde4 get the release date (final) announced again?
[14:26] <mhb> right, but UDS was for discussions.
[14:26] <mhb> and secret decisions are not an honest way of interacting with a community.
[14:27] <Hobbsee> no, but you didn't answer my question
[14:27] <Hobbsee> when did the final kde4 release date come out?
[14:27]  * Hobbsee is fairly sure that was after UDS
[14:28] <Hobbsee> besides.  a lot of the canonical people were discussing other things at UDS.
[14:28] <Hobbsee> like they say, it's not really a community issue
[14:28] <Lure> Hobbsee: sure, but it was clear at UDS that kde4 will not be LTS material anyhow
[14:28] <nosrednaekim> I think Scott made a good point though. its the communities decision to have commercial support! i'm sure if enough comapnies clamoured for LTS, they might give it
[14:28] <Hobbsee> Lure: which is why they planned for dke3 only
[14:28] <nosrednaekim> *its NOT the
[14:28] <Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: ah, yes.
[14:29] <Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: if companies showed enough interest in it, then i suspect they might
[14:30] <Lure> nosrednaekim: agreed that it is Canonical's decision on what to spend their money, but as they base lot's of their success on comunity contributions too, they could ensure that things get communicated better
[14:30] <Lure> nosrednaekim: for example, it is still not clear if there will be another LTS in future and what will this mean for todays dapper users
[14:30]  * Hobbsee wonders how long they've been sitting on the decision for
[14:30] <Hobbsee> Lure: what dapper users?
[14:31] <Lure> Hobbsee: there were even in k-d mailing list some reports of people waiting on dapper as they do not want 6-month upgrades
[14:31] <Lure> Hobbsee: those are for sure waiting for something more stable
[14:31] <blizzzek> at least there is one in our german community :D
[14:32] <Lure> Hobbsee: and hardy will not be that, as it is not clear what kind of future upgrades will be possible
[14:32] <Lure> Hobbsee: buit most likely only hardy -> hardy+1
[14:32] <Hobbsee> true
[14:32] <Lure> Hobbsee: and this is exaclty what they do not want - 6month upgrade
[14:32] <Hobbsee> Lure: i'd like to see some testing done from dapper --> hardy, command-line wise, just to check that it shouldn't bail
[14:32] <Hobbsee> but there's so much stuff to backport
[14:33] <Lure> Hobbsee: other aspect is message to the market, even more after Mark's invitation of OpenSUSE developers, which now looks even more out-of-the-line
[14:34] <Hobbsee> yeah well.  canonical PR....
[14:34] <Hobbsee> well, lets just say that i don't work for them, and i'm sometimes greatful for that fact.
[14:34] <Lure> Hobbsee: kubuntu will still be fine for hobbies and on-the-edge users, but I do not see it at all considreded for business deploymenet (unless there is another company behind - like French parl.)
[14:35] <Hobbsee> Lure: true, true
[14:35] <Lure> Hobbsee: actually no-LTS kubuntu is also opportunity for any other company to take over flagship kubuntu support from Canonical
[14:36] <Lure> Hobbsee: which would potentially result in Canonical droping shipit and other benefits unless there is some agreement
[14:36] <Hobbsee> Lure: true.  w'ell see, i guess
[14:39] <Lure> Riddell: happy birthday!
[14:39]  * Lure is reading backlog ;-)
[15:46] <mhb> ah, everyone is gone
[15:46] <mhb> at least the "silent night" part is true :o)
[15:47] <ryan> not always
[15:47]  * toma is around
[16:04]  * Jucato is now round :)
[16:04] <Jucato> Tue Dec 25 00:04:23 PHT 2007
[16:04] <Jucato> merry christmas to * (or happy hannukah or whatever you celebrate today)
[16:05] <RadiantFire> where do you live that its already christmas?
[16:05] <Jucato> Philippines (Asia)
[16:05] <RadiantFire> ah
[16:06] <Jucato> the aussies and kiwis had it first :)
[16:07] <jpatrick> no Hobbsee around tho
[16:07] <Jucato> yeah :(
[16:07] <Jucato> hi jpatrick! feliz navidad
[16:08] <jpatrick> Jucato: feliz navidad tio!
[16:08] <Jucato> prospero año y felicidad
[16:41] <nixternal> Riddell: did you upload a new kdelibs5?
[16:42] <nixternal> never mind, that was me
[16:42] <nixternal> haha
[16:47] <mhb> we've got christmas too
[16:47] <mhb> because we're the cool continental folks who celebrate just in time!
[16:49] <nixternal> as a matter of fact, I think NORAD just said santa is in your area :)
[16:49] <iRon> you are lucky.. in our country we have no christmas.. :)
[16:50] <iRon> we only celebrating New Year on Dec 31-Jan 1
[16:51] <jpatrick> we have two christmases in spain
[16:51] <mhb> nixternal: ah, so that's why the Americans are installing the defense missile system in Poland...
[16:51] <iRon> :))
[16:51] <mhb> nixternal: they want Santa Claus not to leave the USA, or they'll shoot him down.
[16:53] <Jucato> hah :)
[16:53] <nixternal> mhb: hahahaha, that damn santa is a terrorist...he climbs down chimneys
[16:53] <nixternal> and places mysterious packages under a tree
[16:53] <Jucato> no, he's a communist. he's all in red :)
[16:53] <mhb> why not both?
[16:53] <nixternal> we are sick of calling the bomb squad to blow them up, only to find out I got my favorite doll, but now it is destroyed
[16:53] <mhb> :o)
[16:54] <nixternal> mhb: santa better have his visa! :p
[16:54] <Jucato> I hope santa sends me an N801 or an Eee PC... then I won't mind :)
[16:54] <mhb> the communist terrorists company - threatening USA since 1945.
[16:54] <nixternal> Jucato: if you are still awake and santa hasn't been there yet, he isn't coming...you have to be sleeping for him to show up
[16:55] <Jucato> then again... 1. we don't have chimneys. 2. he'll die in this weather. 3. he'll get mugged even before he can step out of his sleigh. 4. His reindeers are on the menu :)
[16:55] <nixternal> mhb: here is what I don't understand about that whole visa mess and what really irritates me...
[16:55] <mhb> nixternal: imagine santa claus asking his elves to make the photo of him 5cmx5cm, because that's the format United States require.
[16:56] <Jucato> mhb: I doubt the U.S. Embassy will grant him a Visa, since he's from an unknown company on an unknown island :)
[16:56] <nixternal> we have people from mexico jumping the border every day, yet our government is split...they are illegal, or they are good to go and received all kinds of free stuff..I support making them citizens as they tend to work and what not...I liked having our loose borders
[16:56] <Jucato> (sounds familiar though)
[16:56] <nixternal> one guy slips in from canada supposedly to attack NYC, and now we all have to pay for it...we hate it just as much as anyone else
[16:57] <mhb> well the "golden years" of USA were all when the borders were open
[16:57] <nixternal> I used to easily go up into Canada for a few weeks..now I have to go through hell and back just to go
[16:57] <nixternal> I am hoping that will change one day
[16:58] <mhb> I hope so, too
[16:58] <nixternal> it was a cool country years ago, but now...I don't feel the true "patriotism" anymore
[16:59] <nixternal> at first, I couldn't understand why other countries hated us so much, and I was angered by it...but that has all changed as I see why
[16:59] <mhb> well I think once the middle-east conflicts are settled, it will be a good place again.
[16:59] <nixternal> and you can really think the Linux community for that one...seeing as we are "international" you get to hear others comments about it, so you don't always learn geeky stuff around here :)
[16:59] <mhb> provided the politicians stop scaring the voters with terrorism
[16:59] <nixternal> well, we are a year away from a new president
[17:00] <nixternal> hopefully that will help
[17:00] <nosrednaekim> Hilary or Guliani certainly won't <_<
[17:00] <nixternal> I will admit, I am a conservative (Republican) and voted for Bush twice, however if I had my choice again, I wouldn't vote for him again
[17:00] <nixternal> Hillary is our next president, whether people want to believe it or not
[17:01] <toma> as in Clinton?
[17:01] <nixternal> ya
[17:01] <nosrednaekim> yes
[17:01] <toma> OMG
[17:01] <nixternal> exactly my feeling :)
[17:01] <toma> what are you guys doing overthere?
[17:01] <nixternal> ask the liberals that one
[17:01]  * mhb is going back to celebrating, see you later
[17:01] <mhb> my first family comes first, you know :o)
[17:02] <nixternal> I wouldn't mind Barack Obama, McCain possibly, or ...damn I forgot his name...
[17:02] <nosrednaekim> Ron paul?
[17:02] <nixternal> merry christmas mhb! have fun
[17:02] <nosrednaekim> ;)
[17:02] <toma> wasn't she the one that pushed the health system while her husband was in office?
[17:02] <nixternal> ron paul is interesting to say the least
[17:02] <nixternal> toma: yup
[17:02] <nixternal> you watched sicko? :)
[17:03] <nixternal> if so, don't believe everything you saw in sicko...I don't have health care, yet I go to the dr. just like everyone else and I don't pay out the arse
[17:03] <nixternal> our health care system is a mess though, and just about everything else
[17:03] <toma> i did not see it
[17:03] <nixternal> manchicken: tell them how much you love ron paul :p
[17:03] <nixternal> dudes, hide, he will blow a lid when he sees that
[17:03] <nosrednaekim> haha
[17:05] <nixternal> man, what is the Morman guys name that is running? I cannot think of it for the life of me
[17:05] <toma> nixternal: will that be the first woman as president?
[17:05] <jpatrick> nixternal: if you ask me, this whole place is a mess
[17:05] <nosrednaekim> Mitt Romney?
[17:05] <nixternal> toma: yes
[17:05] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: thanks, ya him
[17:05] <nixternal> I like him kind of
[17:05] <effie_jayx> nixternal:  hello from kubuntu gutsy
[17:05] <effie_jayx> :D
[17:05] <nixternal> ooh, howdy effie_jayx
[17:05] <effie_jayx> I installed on my laptop.. and I am a gnome freak...
[17:05] <toma> clinton wasn't that bad compared to bush though
[17:06] <nixternal> anyone who uses gnome is a freak :)
[17:06] <effie_jayx> I like KDE ;)
[17:06] <nixternal> clinton was a democrat/liberal that I actually liked
[17:06] <nixternal> even if he is the reason for cutting my job in the military :)
[17:06] <nixternal> I would be 4 years away from active duty retirement if it wasn't for him
[17:08] <nixternal> voting in the US though has gone from "voting who will be best for us" to "voting for who will suck less"
[17:09] <jussi01> nixternal: was it ever the first one anywhere?
[17:09] <effie_jayx> nixternal:  just about every country...
[17:09] <toma> nixternal: i thought there was a great system of pre-elections in the us
[17:09] <nixternal> hehe
[17:09] <nixternal> toma: there is, but I don't have any say-so in who goes further
[17:10] <nixternal> the elections in the US are garbage, they are so easily cheated, which I think we saw from the 1st elections with Bush vs. Gore
[17:10] <nosrednaekim> mmhm
[17:11] <nixternal> gotta give it to Bush though, he straight Tony Soprano'd that one :)
[17:11] <jussi01> effie_jayx: you got your menus sorted?
[17:11] <Riddell> iRon: same here
[17:12] <jussi01> Happy Birthday Riddell !!
[17:12] <nixternal> Riddell: uploading updated kdelibs5, and now I can get back to building
[17:12] <nixternal> what exactly does that CMAKE_SKIP_RPATH do that it causes an issue for us?
[17:13] <iRon> Riddell: doesn't work?
[17:14] <Riddell> iRon: we don't care for christmas, we have hogmanay
[17:14] <nixternal> Riddell: also, I am using the "feather" wp from the meeting, and I actually really like it
[17:14] <nixternal> eatin' some haggis today?
[17:14] <iRon> Riddell: oh.. i was thought you telling me about user disk mounting :-D
[17:14] <Riddell> nixternal: it stops adding an rpath, which we need because of our weird prefix (you could probably also use LD_LIBRARY_PATH or similar)
[17:14] <nixternal> OK, so I was on the right track then with it
[17:15] <Riddell> nixternal: "feather" wp?
[17:15] <nixternal> my grandfather loved haggis, I wouldn't get near it
[17:15] <Riddell> nixternal: no, lobster
[17:15] <nixternal> wallpaper
[17:15] <nixternal> mmmm lobster
[17:15] <effie_jayx> jussi01:  nah... been fighting with a bigger demon...
[17:15] <effie_jayx> theme manager
[17:15] <effie_jayx> :D
[17:15] <effie_jayx> I like kubuntu
[17:15] <effie_jayx> and I am making it my  own...
[17:16] <nixternal> heh, everyone fights with theme manager, and I don't know why
[17:16] <nosrednaekim> yeah, I never could get the GNOME color manager working.
[17:16] <effie_jayx> but I try to download themes from kde-look.org and kate tries to open them
[17:16] <nixternal> I think I like the crystal theme we use, just with a smaller top bar, and the default crystal buttons
[17:17] <effie_jayx> dunno if it is a konqueror bug...
[17:17] <effie_jayx> nixternal:  I like plastik...
[17:17] <nixternal> ya, plastik is still my favorite, since I have been a "vanilla" kde type of guy for a long time
[17:19] <effie_jayx> nosrednaekim: color changing is not cool in gnome...
[17:20]  * nosrednaekim like the desert color scheme with oxygen.
[17:22] <jussi01> effie_jayx: you just open those files from withtin the themem manager.
[17:23] <effie_jayx> jussi01:  I can't ... I click on download and kate firesup
[17:23] <effie_jayx> I have to wget them..
[17:23] <effie_jayx> nosrednaekim:  I am going to give it a look
[17:24] <effie_jayx> I wonder if anyone has the same problem...
[17:24] <jussi01> effie_jayx: so click save from kate...
[17:24] <jussi01> ;)
[17:24] <effie_jayx> all the gibberish... won't it mess up the file?
[17:24] <nosrednaekim> effie_jayx: thats for KDE4... but you can use desert with kde3
[17:24] <effie_jayx> ahhh :S
[17:26]  * jussi01 still hasnt found a qt browser that he likes
[17:28] <iRon> jussi01: just code it :) it would be nice to have lightweight WebKit/Qt browser as an alternative..
[17:28] <jussi01> iRon: I guess you havent seen my coding skills...
[17:29] <iRon> Swift is a cross-platform Web Browser based on Qt and QtWebkit http://code.google.com/p/swift-wb/
[17:30] <jussi01> ohh, must have a look at that...
[17:32] <iRon> jussi01: for now it is nothing to look at.. it is in a very pre-pre-alpha :) but it works though.
[17:32] <jussi01> iRon: cool.
[17:32] <jussi01> iRon: is this the one created for android?
[17:33] <iRon> jussi01: no.. it just uses the same rendering engine -- WebKit
[17:33] <jussi01> iRon: yeps :)
[17:34] <yuriy> how long should it take to do a bzr push to launchpad?
[17:36] <nixternal> seconds, but instead it takes a long time
[17:36] <nixternal> what are you pushing?
[17:36] <nixternal> if it is a couple of small files, it doesn't take long usually
[17:37] <nixternal> iRon: I have been playing with swift on my windows box..it is pretty slick
[17:37] <yuriy> nixternal: i was playing around with adept, so that's what i'm trying to push. it's been >20 min
[17:37] <nixternal> however, they are copyright violation though
[17:37] <nixternal> heh
[17:38] <nixternal> but hopefully Qt will be gpl v2 or newer soon
[17:39] <Riddell> it won't
[17:39] <Riddell> hopefully 2/3 though
[17:40] <Riddell> nixternal: is swift gpl 3?
[17:40] <nixternal> yes
[17:40] <Riddell> bummer
[17:40] <nixternal> ya
[17:40] <nixternal> it has potential though
[17:40] <iRon> all code must be under BSD license :-)
[17:41] <nosrednaekim> yech... C#
[17:42] <nixternal> ya, I want my code to make it into proprietary software...I don't think so, so BAH BSD
[17:43] <nixternal> w00t, keybuk cleared up a little of the confusion on the ml
[17:45] <rouzic> Riddell: happy birthday ;)
[17:47] <yuriy> oh wow it's done
[17:47] <rouzic> i can't use flashplugin-nonfree in konqueror :s
[17:47] <nixternal> rouzic: nor can any of us until we fix konqi and xembed
[17:48] <jpatrick> for some reason it works here
[17:48] <nixternal> really?
[17:48] <nixternal> hardy?
[17:48] <jpatrick> @ youtube at least, with gutsy
[17:48] <crimsun> you're on gutsy.
[17:49] <nixternal> it is kind of working here
[17:49] <jpatrick> so's rouzic
[17:49] <nixternal> on hardy
[17:49] <nixternal> I can hear a flash video on youtube, but I can't see it
[17:49] <crimsun> 9,0,115,0?
[17:49] <crimsun> nah, that's still broken
[17:49] <nixternal> probably a reboot or restarting x might fix it
[17:49] <nixternal> it wasn't working before at all, it would just cause konqi to crash
[17:50] <rouzic> nixternal: gutsy
[17:51] <nixternal> nope, still broken in hardy...we have sound, but no video
[17:51] <rouzic> in firefox works flash
[17:51] <Riddell> thanks rouzic!
[17:52] <crimsun> ah, Riddell's another year older.  'grats!
[17:52] <nixternal> nah, Riddell is special, he doubles in age every year now
[17:52] <crimsun> my sympathies, then ;)
[17:52] <nixternal> lol
[17:57] <nosrednaekim> hey, I hope we are going with the simple menu for our KDE4
[17:57] <nixternal> what is the simple menu?
[17:57] <nixternal> the old menu?
[17:57] <nixternal> like the kde 3 menu
[17:57] <nosrednaekim> yeah
[17:57]  * nosrednaekim detests kickoff
[17:57] <nixternal> we will probably go witht he default one
[17:58] <rouzic> nixternal: old menu! :-D
[17:58] <nixternal> I do as well, but there are way more people who like it compared to those who don't
[17:58] <nixternal> for a while, kickoff was probaby our #1 requested app to be packaged
[17:58] <nixternal> s/probaby/probably
[18:01] <nosrednaekim> [13:00] <HS^^> its close to kde4
[18:01] <nosrednaekim> [13:00] <HS^^> and basicly rc2 is shit.  how can they fix this.
[18:01] <nosrednaekim> [13:00] <HS^^> the menu is SO big and so ugly
[18:01] <nosrednaekim> [13:00] <HS^
[18:01] <nosrednaekim> lol:D
[18:01] <nosrednaekim> (thats from #kubuntu)
[18:01] <nixternal> the menu is small, that is what I don't like about it
[18:01] <nixternal> I prefer Tasty Menu over it
[18:21] <nixternal> is there a way I can make debuild work across both cores? I just noticed my building is only on one core
[18:21] <nixternal> via temperature reading that is
[18:22] <yuriy> build 2 things at the same time ^_^
[18:22] <nixternal> lol
[18:22] <nixternal> hrmm
[18:23] <nixternal> I think it is time for a new cpu heatsink/fan
[18:23] <nixternal> 70c
[18:23] <nixternal> on one core
[18:34] <manchicken> nixternal: Are you trying to make me look bad? :P
[18:34] <nixternal> hehe
[18:34] <manchicken> Ron Paul is the devil and Mitt Romney is his love-slave.
[18:34] <nixternal> my dad and I just watched a thing about mr. paul, and my dad pretty much said "is he mental"
[18:38] <manchicken> The answer to that is no.  He's not mental.  He's evil.
[18:39] <manchicken> I can't remember who it was, but one of the GOP candidates said that health care is a luxury.
[18:40] <nixternal> haha
[18:40] <RadiantFire> well, everyone is entitled to an opinion, no need to bash them as evil for being misguided
[18:41] <manchicken> RadiantFire: No, Ron Paul is actually evil though.
[18:42] <manchicken> He wants to repeal the 14th amendment to the US Constitution which would end birth-right citizenship.
[18:42] <RadiantFire> I got a flyer from him the other day, most of it seemed reasonable
[18:43] <RadiantFire> anyway, happy holidays everyone
[18:45] <manchicken> RadiantFire: They only tell you the nice parts.  Like I'm sure they didn't mention that he wants to remove all labor laws and environmental laws.
[18:45] <manchicken> Oh, and the department of education.
[18:46] <RadiantFire> manchicken: that has to be weighed against the fact there is no way he ever could do that, no matter how much he wants to
[18:48] <manchicken> RadiantFire: The EPA, Dept. of Education, and Dept. of Labor are all cabinet positions IIRC... putting them right under the Prez.
[18:49] <nixternal> just the leaders iirc, not the actual departments themselves
[18:49] <manchicken> I'm pretty sure the president has the authority to disband or at least under-fund those groups.
[18:50] <nixternal> today he said "we need to abolish taxes"...and when asked about how do you knock down the debt, he had that dear in the headlights look..that is what caused the mental statement from my old man
[18:51] <nixternal> he don't have a chance anyways, and the only way for him to get past the prelims is to run independent now
[18:52] <nixternal> I need to go get a cpu cooler, and I don't want to drive all the way to Frys or Tiger Direct
[18:52] <nixternal> does Best Buy or Circuit City have any in there stores?
[18:52] <nixternal> ahh, CC might, best buy stinks
[18:53] <nixternal> BAH, not available in stores
[18:53] <effie_jayx> heh
[18:54] <nixternal> 78c
[18:54] <nixternal> I can't have that when building
[18:56] <manchicken> nixternal: That would make sense.
[18:56] <nixternal> 78c wouldn't make sense
[18:56] <nixternal> 60c tops on my lappy when building
[18:56] <manchicken> But to that point I would say that he just omitted that he wasn't trying to abolish the debt at all.  I think he likes debt.
[18:56] <nixternal> oh
[18:56] <nixternal> hahaha
[18:57] <manchicken> I think he just wants something else to blame on Mexico.
[18:57]  * nixternal wants open borders again
[18:57]  * manchicken isn't a fan of borders at all.
[18:58] <nixternal> I wan mhb to come and visit me :)
[18:58] <nixternal> s/wan/want
[18:59]  * effie_jayx prefers shopping in barnes n' noble... 
[18:59] <effie_jayx> :P
[18:59] <nixternal> haha
[18:59] <nixternal> so do I...I was there for a bit yesterday
[18:59] <nixternal> did a kdelibs upload from there as a matter of fact
[18:59] <effie_jayx> awwwwwwwww
[18:59] <effie_jayx> I haven't been in the use for 3 years now...
[18:59]  * manchicken misses his local coffee shop.
[18:59] <effie_jayx> s/use/US
[19:00] <nixternal> has anyone been to starbucks recently with a windows/apple lappy?
[19:00] <manchicken> Not me.
[19:00] <manchicken> :)
[19:00] <nixternal> it seems they try to push something down to your machine
[19:00] <manchicken> Really?
[19:00] <manchicken> Would that surprise you?
[19:00] <nixternal> I don't know if it is that iTunes crap or not
[19:00] <manchicken> It wouldn't surprise me :)
[19:00] <nixternal> well I never had noticed anything until our local one did the iTune stuff
[19:01] <nixternal> as soon as I go to a website, I get a popup from Konqi that is empty, and then a crash
[19:11] <nixternal> ARGH!
[19:11] <nixternal> what is wrong with the buildd's
[19:12] <nixternal> kicked back my kdelibs4 with chroot problems
[19:14] <GNUro> Merry Christmas to you all
[19:17] <nixternal> what can one do when the buildd fails to build due to a chroot problem? do I have to reupload?
[19:18] <nixternal> out of all of my uploads, I have never had a problem
[19:33] <crimsun> nixternal: ask for a give-back.
[19:33] <nixternal> crimsun: can I have a give back?
[19:33] <nixternal> :p
[19:33] <crimsun> nixternal: if I were an archive admin, I would be happy.
[19:33]  * nixternal bets all of the archive admins are on holiday
[19:33] <crimsun> happy to^
[19:34] <jpatrick> nixternal: well, I'm waiting for Hobbsee :)
[19:34] <nixternal> I just left a "pretty please" comment in ubuntu-devel
[19:35] <crimsun> I'm having tonnes of fun jumping wifi points here in the district.
[19:35] <nixternal> hehe
[19:35] <crimsun> stupid holiday eve and retails closing earlier
[19:35] <crimsun> :)
[19:36] <nixternal> Potomoc Mills is open until 6 I heard
[19:36] <nixternal> at least they used to stay open until 6 on xmas eve...I always went there then, it wasn't as busy and I got all of my shopping done in like an hour :)
[19:37] <daSkreech> nixternal: can We have DE LTS ?
[19:38] <nixternal> NO
[19:38] <nixternal> what is DE LTS?
[19:38] <nixternal> ;(
[19:38] <nixternal> err, ;)
[19:39] <daSkreech> Well We are looking to delay our LTS by one release right ?
[19:39] <nixternal> no
[19:39] <nixternal> we are looking to delay out LTS until Canonical waves the LTS wand over us
[19:39] <nixternal> re: keybuks response on the mailing list
[19:40] <crimsun> may I have an LTS wand, too?
[19:40] <nixternal> heh, it seems those are the hottest item this year :)
[19:40] <nixternal> Canonical is just scared that KDE 4 will kick arse and take over Gnome, so they drop the LTS so it pisses off users and prevents us from ruling the world
[19:41] <nixternal> ^^ that was a joke, don't go around quoting me on that one
[19:41] <daSkreech> I won't cause that's retarded
[19:41] <nixternal> daSkreech: is it? or is it true?
[19:41] <nixternal> ^^ that wasn't a joke
[19:41] <nixternal> :p
[19:41] <daSkreech> It's truly retarded :)
[19:41] <nixternal> uh oh, he is here, so shhhh
[19:41] <daSkreech> So..
[19:41] <daSkreech> Dang it
[19:42] <daSkreech> just as I was about to blurt out too
[19:42] <nixternal> hahaha
[19:42]  * daSkreech pouts and sulks in the Korner
[19:42] <nixternal> imbrandon: can I build 1 package across multiple cores? if so, teach me obi wan
[19:44] <daSkreech> Here’s the killer that makes this beta release amazing: more GTK support.
[19:45] <ScottK2> nixternal: imbrandon isn't online.  He just dropped me off at my Dad's house, so there's no way he's home yet.
[19:45] <nixternal> groovy
[19:45] <nixternal> oh ya, you are in kc...forgot about that
[19:46] <daSkreech> So we can't have a LTS till 2010 ?
[19:46] <crimsun> no, you can't have a PONY!!
[19:46] <daSkreech> OMGPONIEZ!
[19:47]  * daSkreech will have a GoldenHorse
[19:49] <ScottK2> There are no ponies.  Laserjock is keeping them all anyways.
[19:51] <nixternal> haha
[19:52] <daSkreech> Since we can't LTS just KDE We have to get all the stuff in Main LTsed right ?
[19:52] <nixternal> huh?
[19:52] <ScottK2> Well it's not clear in the current model exactly what is covered by LTS.
[19:52] <nixternal> everything non-KDE will be LTS
[19:52] <daSkreech> Right
[19:53] <daSkreech> I'm asking if we can make just KDE LTS
[19:53] <nixternal> everything non-Kubuntu as well
[19:53] <nixternal> daSkreech: that isn't what Canonical wants
[19:53] <nixternal> supposedly they aren't sure about the status of KDE come 2011
[19:53] <nixternal> KDE 3.x that is
[19:53] <jpatrick> rock solid?
[19:53] <nixternal> we couldn't LTS KDE 4 for probably another year or so
[19:54] <ScottK2> The real question is, is there enough community interest to support KDE 3.5 for 3 years.
[19:54] <nixternal> jpatrick: but will upstream be fixing the bugs, that was supposedly their key argument for their decision
[19:54] <ScottK2> If there is, maybe it could be long term community supported.
[19:54] <nixternal> ScottK2: honestly, I think there is
[19:54]  * ScottK2 too.
[19:54] <nixternal> because KDE is being asked the same things we are
[19:54]  * daSkreech puts up hand
[19:54] <jpatrick> nixternal: it's great as it is :) no word on 3.5.9 tho, but nm
[19:55] <daSkreech> So we have no idea what the staus is for LTS ?
[19:55] <ScottK2> Well how many Gnome bugs in a 2 year old release get fixed?
[19:55] <nixternal> well, they are making some small bug fixes in the 3.5 branch
[19:55] <ScottK2> That bit didn't make sense to me.
[19:55] <nixternal> but none to worthy of a 3.5.9 release yet, or not worthy, just not enough from what I could see
[19:55] <nixternal> ScottK2: apparently not many, because there is a lot of bickering of bugs that are 2+ years old in gnome that aren't getting attention
[19:55] <ScottK2> It seems to me that the biggest issue would be security support and that's not generally a big deal.
[19:56] <ScottK2> Right, so why is lack of upstream support an issue for Kubuntu?  Same problem in Gnome.
[19:56] <daSkreech> can we LTS KDE against 8.04 packages ?
[19:56] <nixternal> daSkreech: only if Canonical says yes
[19:56] <nixternal> it isn't in our hands at all
[19:56] <ScottK2> daSkreech: We can't LTS stuff.  Only Canonical can do that.
[19:56] <daSkreech> do we know what it would take for them to say yes ?
[19:56] <daSkreech> ScottK2:
[19:56] <ScottK2> I think they already said no.
[19:57] <nixternal> yes, KDE making a statement that they would support KDE 3 for another 3+ years
[19:57] <ScottK2> The repository will be there.
[19:57] <daSkreech> Oh sorry :)
[19:57] <daSkreech> let me be more explicit
[19:57] <ScottK2> So if some other company wanted to sell support contracts, they could ...
[19:57] <daSkreech> can we get KDE4.1 packages shipping with 8.10 to be supported under 8.04 LTs ?
[19:57] <nixternal> no
[19:57] <daSkreech> So we backport them
[19:57] <ScottK2> Still not part of the release.
[19:57] <nixternal> we can't do shiznit for LTS, we are dead to LTS until Canonical says otherwise
[19:58] <ScottK2> Backports is extremely not supported by Canonical.
[19:58] <ScottK2> Unless you want to do a startup to offer LTS contracts for Kubuntu.
[19:58] <nixternal> ScottK2: hrmm :)
[19:58] <nixternal> then again, if Canonical isn't getting them, I would be willing to bet a start-up wouldn't be either
[19:59] <daSkreech> ok
[19:59] <ScottK2> A startup would have a different cost mix.
[19:59] <nixternal> I think it would be different if the French Parliament and the Canary Islands went with Dapper, but they didn't, they went with Feisty
[19:59] <daSkreech> who do I pester to find out about what it would take for a Mid cycle LTS for KDE packages ?
[19:59] <ScottK2> Agree.
[19:59] <nixternal> Mark Shuttleworth
[19:59] <ScottK2> Agreed.
[19:59] <daSkreech> He's not on
[19:59] <crimsun> frankly feisty is a much stronger release than dapper.
[20:00] <nixternal> yes it was imho
[20:00] <ScottK2> Definitely.
[20:00] <daSkreech> it was stronger release than Gutsy :)
[20:00] <ScottK2> Dunno.  I think they each keep getting better.
[20:00] <mhb> I don't think Hardy will be strong. At least Kubuntu Hardy won't.
[20:00] <nixternal> Hardy is looking up too right now I must say
[20:00] <nixternal> mhb: then that will be your fault :p
[20:00]  * daSkreech ponders if he should write out a letter to Mark or just pounce him whne he logs in
[20:00] <nixternal> you heard that, it is mhb's fault and not mine for once!
[20:00]  * ScottK2 needs to run.  See you all later.
[20:00] <mhb> Who's gonna fix D3lphin, who's gonna fix kde-guidance, who's gonna port all the Kubuntu apps to KDE4?
[20:01] <nixternal> fix D3lphin by getting rid of it
[20:01] <crimsun> arguably a lot can be done to make Kubuntu 8.04 stronger than even Ubuntu 8.04 LTS.
[20:01] <nixternal> I am not up on Guidance really, and I have heard mixed reactions on it..I leave the power stuff tot he power people
[20:01] <daSkreech> How?
[20:02] <mhb> nixternal: guidance was great
[20:02] <nixternal> porting the Kubuntu apps to KDE 4 will of course happen over time
[20:02] <daSkreech> Just the bling on Hardy being thrown around is near KDE4 hype
[20:02] <nixternal> although, there aren't many to port, except for adept, which is scary
[20:02] <daSkreech> yuriy: ping
[20:02] <mhb> nixternal: when it first arrived, that is at 5.10
[20:02] <daSkreech> We should have a wiki page of what needs to be done for Kubuntu apps -> KDE4
[20:02] <mhb> since then it hasn't been improved much.
[20:03] <nixternal> well I know my battery only goes for about 1.5 hours with Kubuntu, and 2.5 hours with Ubuntu
[20:03] <jpatrick> wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo
[20:03] <nixternal> and that was tested with a Live CD though
[20:03] <daSkreech> nixternal: You got linked to from Digg :)
[20:03] <nixternal> Fedora goes for about 2.5 hours as well
[20:03] <nixternal> daSkreech: when?
[20:04] <nixternal> obviously wasn't important this go round as I didn't hear anything from Dreamhost :)
[20:04] <daSkreech> The LTS mailing list post
[20:04] <daSkreech> your website is the first thing on there
[20:04] <crimsun> has any effort been made to merge efforts from guidance and gnome-power-manager?
[20:05] <nixternal> not that I know of...I think JR would know best though about that
[20:05] <crimsun> err, am I even asking about the proper thing?
[20:05] <crimsun> (from the Description, apparently not)
[20:06] <crimsun> I'm attempting to refer to the backend that handles power management for Kubuntu
[20:07] <daSkreech> Does Solid do power for KDE4 ?
[20:10] <mhb> crimsun: no and it's not planned.
[20:10] <mhb> crimsun: guidance-power-manager is going to get dropped anyway
[20:10] <daSkreech> for?
[20:11] <mhb> crimsun: we'll probably use KDE4's own power manager, so go complain to them.
[20:11] <daSkreech> mhb: Is that Solid?
[20:11] <mhb> frankly, with all the new Qt-dependent backends and GTK-dependent backends, I see no future in sharing code.
[20:11] <nixternal> daSkreech: think of solid as a framework for media:/
[20:12] <daSkreech> It doesn't manage hardware ?
[20:12] <mhb> daSkreech: solid is more for plug-and-play devices, from what I understand.
[20:12] <mhb> like USB sticks and removable media.
[20:12] <daSkreech> Ah
[20:12] <crimsun> mhb: hmm, shame.
[20:12] <daSkreech> I recall some talk about Power management
[20:12] <daSkreech>  can't think of what it would come under other than Solid
[20:13] <mhb> crimsun: my point.
[20:14] <nixternal> daSkreech: the reason you don't see power management talk much is because the distros have always implemented the power management
[20:14] <nixternal> power management is different on Linux, BSD, Windows, and Mac, so it would be tough to have a slim and functional "one power manager for all" at this point
[20:20] <daSkreech> Good point
[20:20] <daSkreech> But would it make sense to have a framework they tweak ?
[20:20] <nixternal> I would think so...but like I said, I leave the power stuff to the power people, as I definitely don't have a solid (no pun intended) understanding of it
[20:21] <crimsun> most of the stuff is straightforward.
[20:22] <crimsun> as with sound drivers, you get shafted with manufacturer-specific quirks.
[20:22] <crimsun> more along the lines of "here's a spec, now go and make lives miserable.  Thanks!"
[20:22] <nixternal> obviously sound drivers aren't straightforward enough for me, because if they were, I would have the correct stuff for sound with my Intel
[20:22] <nixternal> :p
[20:23] <crimsun> I've never gotten a straight answer from you regarding what precisely is/are wrong.  :p
[20:23] <nixternal> haha
[20:23] <crimsun> also, ship me your actual laptop or one exactly like it, and I'll be happy to look at it when I'm off work.
[20:23] <nixternal> it wants to use pcm to control volume...the sound works, but not the way I would like it to
[20:24] <nixternal> you had it work one time where my media keys worked with it
[20:24] <nixternal> if I set pcm as master, I can control vol +/- but the mute is goofy
[20:24] <nixternal> then again, I haven't tried it in a while...doing so now :)
[20:24] <crimsun> what was the last Kubuntu release to "support the media keys properly?"
[20:25] <nixternal> actually that doesn't work either
[20:25] <nixternal> either Edgy or Feisty
[20:26] <nixternal> Edgy I know it worked
[20:26] <crimsun> right, so l-s-2.6.18 or l-s-2.6.20
[20:26] <nixternal> and it isn't a Kubuntu thing either...it doesn't work with any distro that I have tried
[20:26] <iRon> All media keys works for me on Gutsy..
[20:27] <crimsun> s/8/7/
[20:27] <crimsun> iRon: that doesn't mean anything WRT Rich's issues
[20:27] <crimsun> media keys are tied to either acpi or the sound driver itself.
[20:28] <crimsun> in the latter case, it's extremely codec-dependent and has nothing to do with the generic driver.
[20:31] <crimsun> nixternal: got an LP URL for it/them?
[20:31] <nixternal> bug url that I filed?
[20:32] <crimsun> or URLs, yes.
[20:33] <nixternal> looking now
[20:33] <nixternal> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/120515
[20:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120515 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Master volume control doesn't work, PCM only" [Medium,Fix released]
[20:33] <nixternal> there is one marked as fix released
[20:35] <crimsun> mm.
[20:35] <crimsun> let's see if you've been bitten by alsactl.
[20:39] <crimsun> ok, first test: sudo mv /etc/udev/rules.d/85-alsa.rules ~/
[20:39] <crimsun> then reboot.  Let's take a look at the initial state.
[20:40] <crimsun> (man, I love people attaching completely unrelated comments to bug reports...)
[20:40] <nixternal> hehe
[20:40] <nixternal> k, brb for a reboot
[20:44] <nixternal> k, back
[20:44] <nixternal> moving those I only have Master | PCM in KMix now, which is different than before
[20:45] <crimsun> "those" being?
[20:46] <nixternal> digital I think
[20:46] <nixternal> which didn't do anything
[20:47] <crimsun> pastebin your `amixer`, please
[20:47] <nixternal> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/49493/
[20:48] <crimsun> (sec)
[20:50] <crimsun> ok, please clarify whether in Edgy, adjusting "digital" adjusted the volume of speakers and/or headphones via media keys
[20:51] <nixternal> it did
[20:52] <crimsun> ok, I meant "please tell what using the media keys did in Edgy"
[20:52] <nixternal> I have 3 volume related keys, volume up/down and mute
[20:53] <nixternal> they did exactly as they were supposed to do on the Master channel
[20:53] <nixternal> brb
[20:54] <crimsun> nixternal: ok, so with `alsamixer` open in a Konsole, what do the media keys do in !Edgy?
[20:55] <crimsun> shame we don't have hwdep compiled in ;/
[20:55] <crimsun> [for HDA, that is]
[21:02] <nixternal> I don't even have edgy anything around here
[21:02] <nixternal> err, !Edgy, got it
[21:02] <nixternal> move master up and down, and mute master
[21:08] <crimsun> nixternal: err, they do the same things?
[21:09] <crimsun> (meaning, they controlled Master in Edgy and newer versions?)
[21:16] <imbrandon> nixternal: re:multi-core compile, you just use more -j # or make a cc wrapper
[21:17] <imbrandon> like with 2 cores you likely want -j 4
[21:17] <imbrandon> rule of thumb is cores*2 == -j #
[21:18] <daSkreech> Hmm Linux uses TPM now?
[21:18] <imbrandon> ScottK2: hehe yea JUST walked back in :)
[21:19] <imbrandon> crimsun: Merry Christmass :)
[21:21] <nixternal> Merry Christmahanakwanzaka
[21:26] <imbrandon> lol
[21:27] <imbrandon> nixternal: if your compiling packages in parallel though ther is a mail to the debian-devel reciently you might wayt to read, about %10 of packages fail when compiled like that
[21:27] <imbrandon> maybe less, but its a signifigant number
[21:45] <nixternal> Riddell: if you come back around after eatin' some lobster, kde4libs 3.97.0-3ubuntu3 needs a give-back
[21:55] <jjesse> hello nixternal
[21:56] <nixternal> howdy jjesse
[21:56] <jjesse> happy christmas eve
[21:56] <nixternal> same to you sir
[21:56] <jjesse> :)
[21:56] <jjesse> so i wrote some thoughts on kubuntu and 8.04 that currently has 96 veiws
[21:57] <nixternal> where at?
[21:58] <jjesse> jjesse.wordpress.com
[21:58] <jjesse> my non-planet blug
[21:58] <nixternal> how come you don't agregate that bad boy?
[21:58] <jpatrick> nixternal: do you do latex?
[21:58] <nixternal> yes
[21:58] <jjesse> nixternal: because i write a lot of non-linux and political stuff on that
[21:58] <nixternal> ahhh
[21:58] <jjesse> actually thinking about just agreating the ubuntu/kubuntu stuff
[21:58] <nixternal> you can create a 'kubuntu' topic and agregate just it btw
[21:58] <nixternal> ya
[21:58] <jpatrick> nixternal: do you know how I change all \section's to a colour?
[21:59] <nixternal> depends on the theme you are using, or class
[21:59] <nixternal> are you using latex-beamer?
[21:59] <jpatrick> don't think so
[21:59] <jpatrick> texlive
[21:59] <nixternal> what class if any are you importing into your document?
[22:00] <nixternal> some classes have colors hardcoded
[22:00] <jpatrick> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/2983/
[22:00] <jpatrick> basically I don't want to have to put \color{kubuntublue} everytime
[22:01] <nixternal> \section{\color{blue or whatever color you want}Section Name}
[22:01] <nixternal> that is how I typically do it
[22:01] <jpatrick> yes, I don't want to do that :) want it to include it anyway
[22:02] <nixternal> you can make up your own tag
[22:02] <jpatrick> ah yes
[22:02] <nixternal> name it foobar and have it set to how you want it to look
[22:02] <nixternal> then call it like \foobar{bar is foo}
[22:02] <jjesse> hrmm if 077 is to open for my ssh key for bzr, what settings does it have to be?
[22:03] <jpatrick> ok, thanks
[22:03] <nixternal> 700 I thought jjesse
[22:03]  * nixternal looks
[22:03] <jjesse> that did it
[22:04] <nixternal> -rw------- 1 nixternal nixternal  1743 2007-01-08 20:41 id_rsa
[22:04] <nixternal> -rw-r--r-- 1 nixternal nixternal   403 2007-01-08 20:41 id_rsa.pub
[22:04] <nixternal> ~/.ssh is 700
[22:05] <jjesse> thanks :)
[22:05] <nixternal> no problemo
[22:05] <nixternal> funny you asked, because I setup another ssh key on my desktop today..that is how I knew it off the top of my head :)
[22:06] <jjesse> grumble now my bzr branch is locked, what is that command again?
[22:06] <nixternal> bzr break-lock?
[22:06] <nixternal> there isn't a 'clean' like there is for svn
[22:06] <nixternal> hrmm
[22:07] <jjesse> yup that was it
[22:07]  * jjesse was working on documentation today
[22:07] <nixternal> wooohooo
[22:07] <nixternal> jjesse: do you think we should create some kubuntu4 documentation?
[22:07] <jjesse> kubuntu4?  that would be kde4 for kubuntu?
[22:08] <jjesse> yes i think we should
[22:08]  * jjesse has to re-write the kubuntu chapter in the official book somehow as well
[22:10] <nixternal> yes
[22:18] <jjesse_> sorry dropped connection at in-laws
[22:18] <nixternal> did you guys bet a buttload of snow?
[22:18] <jjesse> haven't been in GR since early sunday morning
[22:18] <jjesse> in detroit at in-laws and they don't have much at all
[22:23] <nixternal> ahh, ya I heard Berrien County got nailed
[22:23] <jjesse> Riddell: happy freakin birthday
[22:23] <jjesse> that's what i heard
[22:24] <jjesse> GRR (grand rapids airport) lost power for 13 hours
[22:25] <nixternal> oh wow
[22:25] <jjesse> yeah couldn't believe that
[22:25] <jjesse> it was averaging 45 mph for wind
[22:26] <Riddell> thanks jjesse!
[22:26] <Riddell> nixternal: I can't do give back
[22:26] <Riddell> nixternal: hobbsee can, or you can just do another upload
[22:26] <Riddell> nixternal: why did it need give back?
[22:26] <jpatrick> chroot problems
[22:27] <jpatrick> all packages seem to be affected
[22:27] <nixternal> Riddell: what jpatrick said
[22:27] <nixternal> only i386 and ppc
[22:27] <nixternal> everything else was fine
[22:27] <jpatrick> I had one on sparc
[22:28] <nixternal> I will just up the version and reupload
[22:28] <Riddell> oh well, poke infinity about that, but he'll be in the middle of christmas by now
[22:28] <nixternal> I need to see if any other i386 chokes happened first
[22:30] <jpatrick> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+builds?build_text=&build_state=chrootwait
[22:34] <jjesse_> grr kde4 freezes for me
[22:35] <jjesse> makes it hard to work :(
[22:50] <jjesse> for those running kde4 can they run programs such as adept or add/remove programs/
[22:51] <jjesse> i cant' get sudo to validate against them
[23:01] <seezer> jjesse: try "kdesudo adept_manager"
[23:01] <seezer> i think that worked for me
[23:02] <jjesse> seezer: yes it does, but starting anything from the menu that requires sudo rights doesn't authenticate
[23:02] <seezer> it does - but you have to use your root password
[23:02] <seezer> which is not set in kubuntu by default
[23:03] <seezer> don't ask me why - haven't looked into that any further
[23:03] <jjesse> when i use kdesudo it works, however just going to the menu -> Add/Remove Programs prompts for a password, which should be my password which has sudo priveliges right?
[23:04] <seezer> set a password for root (sudo passwd root) and use that - or find a way around the "problem" and notify me afterwards ;)
[23:08] <mhb> jjesse: has anyone answered your questions yet?
[23:09] <jjesse> mhb: not yet, but heading out
[23:10]  * jjesse heads to christmas eve servcixe
[23:12] <seezer> mhb: can you answer that?
[23:38] <nixternal> haha, out of all of the buildd's, only hppa and ia64 are working
[23:38] <nixternal> that is awesome! bah!
[23:40] <mhb> seezer: most of it, but if someone else can handle that...
[23:56] <nixternal> Riddell: if we go with stdin's patches, we can't do a full merge with debian then...so all I am going to do is grab the new cdbs/, use it, and keep the rest of our stuff..I was wondering why all of a sudden it would crash out on usr/share/applications/*.desktop