[00:05] <troy_s> And yes, the initial impetus was to go black and orange.
[00:06] <troy_s> I can't help but think that it is rather limited in scope.  A precursory examination of most designs out there tend to put black and x themes into the '33733t' skript kiddie demographic.  I don't know how viable a demographic that one is to chase.
[00:06] <troy_s> Nevermind overcoming the Halloween connotations.
[00:14] <nanley> My thoughts as well. With this venture as bold as it is, I believe they must have been thinking of something before hand, something unexpected; I just wonder what it is. Of course what I've just said could be false, as I've seen the immature drafts that have been released.
[00:17] <troy_s> nanley: I wish there were that much forethought.
[00:18] <troy_s> nanley: Granted, it is a gravely difficult chore to assemble a decent design team in the normal world, let alone Free Software.  There have been more and more people who have popped up with the proper credentials, but it will take time.
[00:21] <nanley> troy_s: Hopefully, it will be taken care of within the next 4 months.
[00:21] <troy_s> nanley: LOL.
[00:21] <nanley> troy_s: lol
[00:22] <troy_s> nanley: How old are you if you don't mind me asking?  20ish?
[00:23] <nanley> troy_s: let's just say, I'm going to college next year
[00:24] <troy_s> nanley: Ah.  So probably 19ish zone give or take?
[00:24] <troy_s> nanley: What are you going to take or are you just going to feel it out at first?
[00:24] <nanley> troy_s: quite close, yea
[00:25] <nanley> troy_s: I was thinking somewhere between, EE, mechanical engineering, chemical engineering, or medicine
[00:25] <nanley> troy_s: I've got some narrowing down to do
[00:26] <troy_s> nanley: Ah.  Nifty.  So get a ugrad then move into getting an engineering degree?  (That's a lot of school mind you)
[00:28] <nanley> troy_s: Thing is, I'm quite clueless about the process - I was planning to procrastinate and wait until I had to deal with it, but it looks like I've got some more researching to do. I've already gotten accepted to one college, and I'm waiting on a response from a college which majors in engineering..
[00:28] <troy_s> lol
[00:29] <troy_s> nanley: Yeah.  Here it is a standard to have a ugrad then move into engineering if accepted (rather strict nasty testing as with MCAT and LSAT here)
[00:30] <nanley> troy_s: Oh, I did not know this. You do live in the US right? :-!
[00:30] <troy_s> nanley: Canada.
[00:30] <nanley> troy_s: Ohk
[00:31] <nanley> troy_s: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=647777 - That's where I got the Tropical Idea from
[00:33] <nanley> troy_s: I assume you have an engineering degree?
[00:33] <troy_s> nanley: No.  Fine Arts degree here.
[00:34] <troy_s> nanley: A good friend of mine has a masters in engineering.
[00:35] <nanley> troy_s: Ah, that explains why you're in #ubuntu-artwork. How does your friend like engineering? Is he doing mechanical engineering?
[00:36] <troy_s> nanley: I think he is working on building engineering right now, but I can't be entirely certain.  Last time I chatted with him about work he was responsible for making architectural 'art' into reality - IE turning sketches and thoughts into things that don't fall over.
[00:39] <nanley> troy_s: Got it, architectural engineering. I'll try and sort out my career stuff soon. Testing Hardy and Learning Python is just way too distracting.
[00:39] <troy_s> LOL
[02:43] <BHSPitMonkey> anybody notice blurry menu icons in gutsy?
[02:43] <nanley> This is my feather concepts mixed - http://flickr.com/photos/52895259@N00/2134676742/
[02:43] <nanley> I notice them only on my desktop
[02:43] <BHSPitMonkey> and am I the only one whom it infuriates?
[02:43] <nanley> on my laptop they don't exist for some odd reason
[03:00] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: No.  If we insisted on SVG for all of the icons, it wouldn't be an issue.
[03:01] <BHSPitMonkey> troy_s, no, even on the ones that are in svg!
[03:02] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: Example?
[03:02] <BHSPitMonkey> folders in my Places menu
[03:02] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: Gnome's render is completely idiodic though -- as with GDM.  The silly thing renders SVGs to the image size and THEN stretches them.
[03:03] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: So the default folder icon?  Or is it one of the horrid tangoized dinky versions?
[03:03] <BHSPitMonkey> I'll just upload a screen in a few mins
[03:04] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: Please do.  It is easy to fix -- simply adjust the index.theme for the icon set to point to either 1) an icon (as if it isn't pointed to an icon it will default to whatever is there already -- in this case probably smaller)
[03:04] <troy_s> or 2) point to an icon that is bigger (as above.)
[03:07] <nanley> I've got the same problem - it seems pretty recent though
[03:07] <nanley> It just sprung up today probably after an update
[03:09] <BHSPitMonkey> troy_s, the fact that it got released that way bothers me more than seeing it personally
[03:12] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: Tell me about it.  Every time I have to go over to a person's house and fix a bloody break that prevents memory cards from being detected it drives me bonkers.
[03:12] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: The regression factor in Ubuntu is something that needs to be addressed.
[03:12] <troy_s> That said, Ubuntu does a _lot_ extremely well.
[03:13] <troy_s> And we can expect growing pains obviously -- this level of status hasn't been achieved by a Free Software project yet (although one could argue Red Hat in enterprise circles -- but Ubuntu by all accounts does a better job of managing those sorts of issues)
[03:31] <BHSPitMonkey> troy_s, I think what I'm seeing isn't the rendering, but the svg's themselves being badly made.
[03:32] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: Always a possibility, but let me give you a brief idea to the theme file...
[03:32] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: The theme file assigns icons based on 'need sizes'
[03:33] <BHSPitMonkey> troy_s, no, there's some REALLY stupid shadow effects in place
[03:33] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: In Ubuntu and most of everything the guys render to pixels (as opposed to using SVG and increasing the development on hinting etc)
[03:33] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: hrm... screenshot?
[03:33] <troy_s> imagebin.ca it.
[03:33] <BHSPitMonkey> in the actual folder SVG.  You can open it in inskcape if you like.
[03:33] <BHSPitMonkey> /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/places/folder.svg
[03:34] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: And what resolution are you viewing it at?
[03:35] <troy_s> just so i can test
[03:35] <troy_s> at 24x24 it looks 'fine'.
[03:35] <troy_s> at this end anyways.
[03:35] <troy_s> you running feisty BHSPitMonkey ?
[03:35] <BHSPitMonkey> troy_s, does the way that "shadow" is implemented in the SVG drawing not bother you like it does me?
[03:36] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: That is a legacy shadow from the Illustrator conversion via inkscape
[03:36] <BHSPitMonkey> a series of semi-opaque gray paths?  which becomes especially awful on top of an anything-but-white background?
[03:37] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: And yes, it isn't great.  That said, the overall icon is a bigger worry (why does Tango, Oxygen, and Ubuntu have the _worst_ high visibility icons outside of Vic20 land?)
[03:37] <BHSPitMonkey> not sure I understand that
[03:37] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: Understand what?
[03:37] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: It was done that way as the 'blur' factor didn't exist when it was verted.
[03:38] <BHSPitMonkey> but yeah, it's these dumb artistic flares that are making things look bad over here
[03:38] <BHSPitMonkey> and everywhere I guess
[03:38] <BHSPitMonkey> troy_s, you mean the high contrast icons, or what?
[03:38] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: Don't for a second call any of that debacle 'artistic'.
[03:39] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: They are just clunky as hell icons.
[03:39] <troy_s> BHSPitMonkey: I thought Everaldo's new crystal set was quite good, albeit a little close to Vista.
[03:41] <BHSPitMonkey> for the shadow effect, it needs to be a solid black offset shape, with blur (which I know is new) and low opacity
[03:41] <BHSPitMonkey> it shows on white and not on black
[03:41] <BHSPitMonkey> arguably it shouldn't be there at all, but that's a matter of opinion
[03:43] <BHSPitMonkey> there's too much to just find flaws with really
[03:44] <BHSPitMonkey> it's easier to just find an os x theme and feel like you've done all you can do
[03:46] <BHSPitMonkey> the most confusing addition for me is the reasoning behind how they couldn't cough up a clean SVG of the bluetooth ****ing logo, and instead using one that looks like it was drawn in photoshop
[11:53] <lassegul> merry christmas everyone
[18:44] <troy_s> lassegul: Back at you!
[18:44] <troy_s> lassegul: Or a generic happy holiday if you don't do the XMas thing.