nixternalok, been laying around the past couple of days quite ill, read the "Foundation of Qt Development" all the way through and danimo's "The book of Qt4"...I am ready to start hacking!00:01
Jucatoaw... you feeling better now? :(00:02
nixternalI just realized, I have 5 books on Qt development00:02
nixternalno, still feeling pretty bad00:02
nixternalI come back to the puter for a few minutes once or twice a day00:02
Jucatodon't read my post then... might make you feel worse00:03
nixternalto late :p00:03
Jucatobut good for you you have 5 books :)00:03
Jucatoall Qt 4?00:03
nixternal4 C++ and 1 Python00:03
Jucatonvm the Python00:03
Jucatolol :D00:03
* Jucato hides from mhb00:03
nixternalI am with you on that...I am still not a fan of it myself00:03
nixternalI have been doing project euler stuff with c++ and python, and c++ is just faster and easier to code for me00:04
Jucatoit's not bad. but the python book I got seems to be crap for beginners... even though it claims to be for beginners...00:04
VorianJucato, the o'reiley one?00:05
nixternalBeginning Python?00:05
Jucatono. APress00:05
nixternalwith all the GTK crap in it?00:05
JucatoPractical Python00:05
nixternalya, I have that book and Beginning Python (Wrox publishing)00:05
nixternalboth blow pretty hard00:05
Jucatoheh :)00:05
nixternalthe best Python book I have read thus far, is the damn PyQt4 book00:05
nixternalthe first 3 chapters are purely python, and super easy to follow and pickup00:06
nixternalthen again, every Mark Summerfield book is pretty good00:06
nixternalgreat, snow on the way, up to 8 inches00:06
nixternalnot liking this00:06
JucatoI though the Practical Python book would be good, seeing that there seems to be really practical applications being taught in there... but the introductory parts of the book weren't that good... and those were the parts that introduced python for beginners00:06
Vorianyah, any Frank Herbert book is good too.00:06
* Vorian hides00:06
Voriannixternal, that's a crazy amount of snow... again00:07
Jucatothe only snow I have is on my wallpaper :D00:07
Jucatoer.. "desktop background"00:07
Vorianthat's too bad :(00:07
nixternalwe have been in the upper 40s all week pretty much00:08
nixternalI think the weather changing is what is killing me00:08
Jucatoah finally jjesse's blog is on the planet!00:08
Jucatonixternal: I'm vulnerable to that too :(00:08
Jucatoluckily the weather the past days have been constant: warm/hot00:09
Jucatohottest Christmas evar!00:09
* nosrednaekim wants snow! nixternal... blow some to the east coast!00:20
nosrednaekimactually, I retract that... I have a couple parties I want to go to this weekend.00:29
=== Huahua is now known as Shely
mayecoI'm runing the last hardy cd...00:46
mayecoyou know that lost & found menu have too much crazy programs00:47
nosrednaekimmayeco: that usually happens with the alphas.00:47
mayecoahhh ok00:47
=== dasKreech_ is now known as dasKreech
jjesseok question on compiling kde4, getting an error on kdepimlibs "ERROR: Could not find KDE4 kde4-config" runing as my primary user and i have sourced a .bashrc already02:33
cheguevara_jjesse: stupid check but you got kdelibs compiled?02:40
Jucatojjesse: "which kde4-config" ?02:46
jjessecheguevara_: yes i got kdelibs compiled03:08
jjessehrm nothing shows up for which kde4-config03:08
cheguevara_updatedb && locate kde4-config03:08
Jucatojjesse: maybe the correct KDEDIR hasn't been set...03:09
cheguevara_then check that wherever it finds it is under "env | grep PATH"03:09
Jucato(that too)03:09
jjessepastebin for env03:10
jjesselocate pastebin: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/3066/03:11
Jucatojjesse: is kde4-config in kde/bin?03:11
jjesseJucato: which kde/bin?03:12
Jucato/home/jjesse/kde/bin (presuming that's where you're installing KDE4?)03:12
jjessein ~/kde/bin doesn't list kde4-config03:12
Jucatohm... that's a problem then...03:12
jjessefigured, i was able to install/build kdelibs03:13
Jucatomaybe your kdelibs didn't build properly, or the correct env vars weren't set.. (do you have $KDEDIR set?)03:13
cheguevara_because that doesn't really need anythithing kde-wise, only  some support libs03:13
jjessei source a .bashrc before i try to bid03:13
cheguevara_lets see the .bashrc03:14
jjesseits the script from techbase03:14
Jucatocheguevara_: which doesn't need anything kde-wise?03:14
jjessekdelibs doesn't need kde4-config03:14
Jucatoyes. kdelibs creates kde4-config :)03:14
cheguevara_yeah :P03:14
jjessethis is the .bashrc i'm using http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Getting_Started/Increased_Productivity_in_KDE4_with_Scripts/.bashrc03:15
Jucatojjesse: those 3 lines are the only output of the "env" command?03:15
cheguevara_jjesse: if its the exact one then it should be fine, i used that just a week ago03:15
=== uga is now known as uga|away
cheguevara_jjesse: are you following that guide to build/install it as well?03:15
jjessecheguevara_: did you have to change anything on it to run/build as your primary user?03:15
jjessecheguevara_: i'm using the guide on techbase03:16
cheguevara_jjesse: i actually created a new user like a good boy that i am :P03:16
Jucatohe's using the guide to build kde4 not on a separate user, but on his primary (kde3) user03:16
* Jucato nods03:16
JucatoI ain't so daring either :P03:16
jjessefull output of ENV  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/3067/03:16
jjessei had problems with KDE4 from the beta2 packags and people suggested i just build it myself to resolve those problems03:17
Jucatohm... looks ok...03:17
jjessei guess i could just install the beta packages again03:17
* Jucato wonders what went wrong...03:17
jjessethat are on kubuntu.org03:17
cheguevara_did you remove the previous packages03:17
Jucatorc2 you mean right :)03:17
jjesseyeah r203:17
nosredna_ekimits a beta2.... ;)03:18
Jucatohush! :P03:18
jjessecheguevara_: i had to because i was getting errors on soprano not being the right version03:18
cheguevara_jjesse: just create a new user, you'll make things easier for yourself03:18
jjessecheguevara_: but i really liked the look and feel of kde4 :)03:18
cheguevara_yeah so create a different user and use it from there :P03:19
jjessecheguevara_: i wastyring to use it as my day to day03:19
cheguevara_exactly 2 weeks left till final now :)03:19
jjessei guess i can wait till final then03:19
cheguevara_i use mine as main main DE as well03:19
cheguevara_latest SVN is pretty good03:20
cheguevara_haven't crashed once yet03:20
nosredna_ekimrc2 has only crashed once for me.... and that was because of Krita03:20
jjessei get crashes on my laptop all the time, screen freezes and won't respond, all the windows blur together, can't suspend, can't lock screen03:21
cheguevara_meh plasma in rc 2 died on me quiet a lot03:21
cheguevara_i wish novell would port knetworkmanager to kde 4 already03:22
nosredna_ekimjjesse: you have the blue plugin enabled?03:22
* jjesse doesn't remember03:22
Jucatohttp://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1005960 <-- oh great, no-lts has reached linux journal...03:22
Jucatoit's the most accurate article I've seen so far, though :D03:23
nosredna_ekimbesides your's ;)03:23
jjessei'm impressed on how much extr traffic i'm getting now that i added my blog to planet.ubuntu.com03:24
Jucato(except for the part that presumes that KDE 4 was planned for the LTS)03:24
Jucatoit's the only traffic I ever get :P03:24
cheguevara_are we gonna have 4.0.1 or going straight to 4.1 ?03:24
Jucato4.0 probably... when is 4.0.1 planned anyway? :D03:25
Jucatohey.... 4.0 isn't even out yet!!!03:25
cheguevara_yeah but i am worried about a bugfix release before April :P03:25
JucatoI guess it all depends... 4.0 or 4.0.1 with 3.5.8 or 3.5.903:25
cheguevara_yeah 3.5.9 should come out soon i think03:25
cheguevara_and be the last :P03:25
Jucatoit always depends on what KDE version is available at the nearest time to the release :)03:25
Jucatoaw... I was looking forward to 3.5.22-14 :(03:26
cheguevara_yeah just thinking about kde people releasing 4.0, then getting all excited about getting in all those moules that missed the freeze and just concentrating on that again :P03:26
Jucatoright... lunch :)03:27
* Jucato wonders if there's a KDE alphabet soup... with K's only :D03:27
cheguevara_though kde 4.1 against qt 4.4 should be pretty impressive :P03:28
jjessewow that email from Luka was awesome03:29
nosredna_ekimtoo long ;)03:30
=== dasKreech_ is now known as dasKreech
jjesseJucato: when you got a second can you review the adept guide (just for adept) for accuracy and send me a diff of any changes03:45
jjessei love (american) college football bowl season03:46
jjessea game almost every night :)03:46
nosredna_ekimfootball is boring..03:46
jjessemaybe you are boring :)03:47
nosredna_ekimEngineers aren't boring.... they just get excited over boring things...03:47
jjesseand now he left :(03:49
nixternalhe shall return!03:49
jjessegrumble why can't konqueror's spell check know how to spell KDE apps03:50
jjessehello nixternal03:50
nixternalready for some more snow tomorrow?03:50
cheguevara_save some snow for EU already :P03:51
nixternalburritos + being sick == much worse03:51
jjesseare you getting it tonight?03:51
jjessethat's what she said03:51
nixternalfrom 08:00 to 18:0003:51
nixternal6+ inches03:51
jjessethat's what she said03:51
jjesseman i love the office03:51
nixternalexcept for the 6+ inches part03:51
jjessenixternal: you have mail from me03:52
nixternaluh oh03:52
* cheguevara_ feels left out03:52
=== cheguevara_ is now known as CheGuevara
jjessenixternal: also got several emails from soemone who wants to help out with kubuntu docs03:52
nixternalya, I seen that on the -docs ml03:53
jjesseanyways after i emailed the list back he emailed me a couple of things and i got him working on stuff already03:53
nixternalI am wondering if we should create kubuntu-docs-kde403:54
jjessewe should03:54
jjessedon't tell matt :)03:54
nixternalI haven't talked to him in a while now03:54
nixternalI don't think he is all that active anymore really03:54
jjesseme either to both of them03:55
jjessenot since jsut after uds03:55
nixternalI think the last time I talked to him, it was still hot out03:55
jjesseanyone seen the movie "I am Legend"?03:56
nixternaljjesse: I just bought it on DVD for $503:56
nixternaland I must say, it is amazing03:56
jjessethe new movie w/ will smith or an old version?03:56
nixternalthe new movie03:56
jjessethe one that is still in the theatre?03:56
nixternali was at the mall yesterday and some dude driving around in a white van selling them stopped me03:57
jjessethat's awesome03:57
jjessei saw it on IMAX03:57
jjesseand it was freakin unbeliveable03:57
CheGuevaranixternal: is it good quality?03:57
nixternalCheGuevara: like a real dvd03:57
CheGuevaraoh yeah dvd screener is out03:57
CheGuevarathats why03:57
jjessebest part of the movie wwas the batman preview03:57
nixternalbut you know with dvd screeners, how they usually have the stuff/timers on the bottom? this one didn't03:58
nixternalit was like if you bought a real dvd with the groovy menus and all03:58
jjessewow thats crazy03:58
nixternalI have never in my life witnessed something like this03:58
nixternalhe had a portable dvd player with him so you could witness the quality before you bought it...I about flipped03:58
CheGuevaranixternal: no text like  "This SECURE SCREENER is on loan for viewing by you, the member, it is DIGITALLY WATERMARKED."03:59
nixternalnone whatsoever03:59
CheGuevaranow thats weird03:59
nixternalya it is03:59
nixternalI have seen tons of screeners before, but this one, if it was a screener and not a rip from a dvd at the movie theaters03:59
nixternalit was the real deal03:59
CheGuevaradvd at the movie theaters?04:00
CheGuevarayou mean telecine?04:00
nixternalI have no idea what they use04:00
nixternalI remember one time a guy stole dvd's from the local theater and was selling them04:00
CheGuevarawhy would they have dvds in a theate, they don't project movies from dvds in a cinema :P04:01
nixternalI couldn't tell ya, I don't go to the movies04:01
nixternalthere are better things to do with $8 these days04:02
CheGuevaralol neither do i04:02
CheGuevarabut i know way too much then an average person about movie piracy04:02
CheGuevaralets just say i got a background :P04:02
nixternalwhere are you from again :p04:03
CheGuevaraoriginally from Russia, lived in US, now in UK04:03
nixternalso where did you pick up your background? russia or NYC :p04:03
CheGuevaraUS, and no i wasnt selling dvds :P04:04
CheGuevarawas in a scene group04:04
nixternalwhere at in the US did you live?04:05
* jjesse beds talk to you all tomorrow :)04:05
nixternalk'nite jjesse04:05
CheGuevaranite jjesse04:05
CheGuevarasanta barbara to be exact04:05
CheGuevarathe ocean was great :P04:06
CheGuevaraunlike this damn wet and cold place lol04:06
=== fifoi is now known as CheGuevara
Jucatojjesse: will do. but after the holidays I presume...04:44
* Jucato takes a short nap to recharge before doing some "spring cleaning" :)04:46
CheGuevaraplasma is taking 93% cpu05:07
CheGuevaragood night05:32
yuriyooh jjesse is on planet06:28
=== wolfger_ is now known as wolfger
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
dinosaur-rushi all10:01
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
Tonio_hi there11:29
Tonio_had a good christmas ?11:29
Hobbseeheya Tonio_!11:30
Tonio_hey Hobbsee :)11:46
Tonio_I love that period in between christmas and new year's day11:46
Jucatopeace, silence... nothing to do? :)12:05
Jucatohi Tonio_! hi Hobbsee!12:05
Hobbseeinsane customers.12:05
JucatoRule #1: The customer is always right. Rule #2: If the customer is wrong, see rule #1. :D12:06
Hobbseerule #1:  the customer who claims to be right usually isnt.  rule #2:  see rule 1.12:07
Jucatohahah :)12:07
JucatoRule #1: Whoever made the "customer is always right" rule is a git. Rule #2: Nothing follows12:08
* Jucato twiddles thumbs innocently12:08
Hobbseerule #1:  stupid customers deserve to be minced.12:08
Jucatominced, diced, and fried to a crisp! :)12:08
wolfgertaking a lesson from Sweeny Todd, eh Hobbsee?12:20
mhbJucato: you can't really hide, you know :o)12:50
* Jucato trashes his invisibility cloak... useless POS...12:50
mhbJucato: so what did you do this time? :o)12:52
Jucatonothing! I'm innocent I tell ya!12:53
* Jucato wonders if we should be thinking of a Qt4/KDE4 substitute for Adept as early as now...12:54
mhbI thought we're using PackageKit12:54
mhbwhen it comes out.12:54
mhb(Hardy+1 hopefully)12:55
JucatoI hope it were something definite by this time... or we're in for a lot of trouble... unless kpackage becomes actively maintained again12:55
Jucatohm... does that depend on Ubuntu switching to PackageKit or not?12:56
mhbno idea.12:56
Jucatothat's going to be the problem... if Ubuntu doesn't make the switch, we're kinda left hanging, unless we dare to move to packagekit by ourselves, or port adept (eww?) or use something else...12:57
Jucatoah... too much to think about as the year ends :P12:57
wolfgerport Synaptic? ;-)13:03
* Jucato shudders at Kynaptic...13:04
CheUpdated:  Apr 9 200513:06
Cheuseless :P13:06
Jucatothe app is useless in itself even during that time13:06
Jucatowell not really useless13:06
Jucatoyou can install and remove. that's it. (irrc)13:07
Chedoes packagekit have a qt frontend yet13:08
Jucatoyeah I think it does13:08
Cheah QPackageKit13:09
* Jucato nods13:09
Jucatoof course the frontend is less of a problem as the backend's support of DEB/APT13:10
Cheaint there at least one person working on that13:13
Cheas always rpm/yum have paid devs from suse and redhat13:13
Cheand deb/apt doesnt :P13:13
Jucatobut deb/apt has the geeks!!!!13:13
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
jjesse03left my laptop on at home and it keeps reconnecting :(13:52
Hobbseehow useful13:53
jjesse03hello Hobbsee13:54
jjesse03don't have open to my laptop13:54
jjesse03from work13:54
jjesse03how are you Hobbsee ?13:55
mhbhey folks15:03
mhbsoo, how many of you tried the Oxygen cursor theme?15:04
jjesse03mhb: did you see that i added myself to planet.ubuntu.com ?15:07
mhbjjesse03: I have, that's great newss15:07
mhbsss :o)15:07
jjesse03thanks golem15:07
=== apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger
nixternaljjesse03: I see that Pearson is treating us like a step-child too15:56
Vorianfeeling any better today nixternal?15:57
* Jucato hopes :)15:58
nixternalstill kinda cruddy, but I gotta get through it today...gotta snowblow/shovel15:58
dasKreechYo Jucato  :)16:00
Jucatoyo dasKreech! :]16:00
Jucatothe ceiling (fortunately)16:01
dasKreechNeed a small hurricane to take care of that?16:02
Jucatono thanks :)16:02
Jucatonixternal: who/what is Pearson?16:02
dasKreechAnyone on KubuntuDE4?16:07
mhbdasKreech: I was, but plasma went greedy again.16:08
mhbso I'm back at openbox until it calms down.16:08
dasKreechcan you delete the ~Desktop Folder and logout/in ?16:08
dasKreechI wanna see if it gets recreated16:08
dasKreechor you know16:08
dasKreechmv it :)16:09
mhbI can do that later, not now though.16:09
dasKreechIf I'm offline just leave me a message16:11
=== luka74 is now known as Lure
nixternalJucato: pearson are the book people for ubuntu16:19
Jucatoooh that one :)16:19
* Jucato guessed so16:19
Jucatomy C++ books is actually republished by Pearson and sold at a lower price for 3rd world countries (like mine)16:20
nosrednaekimJucato: the politically correct ord for that now is "developing nations"16:21
jjesse03nixternal: ah well we've always only had one chapter16:22
mhbstop insulting yourself Jucato :o)16:22
Jucatonosrednaekim: same thing :P16:22
Jucatomhb: I'm not insulted :D16:22
JucatoI'm just 1 degree lower than Kubuntu (2nd class citizen :P)16:23
mhbI always travel 2nd class :o)16:24
mhb1st one is for snobs anyway :o)16:24
dasKreechJucato: class and world are towns apart!16:26
=== apache|mobile_ is now known as apache|mobile
=== apache|mobile is now known as aplg|mobile
nixternaljjesse03: I am surprised that they are even keeping the chapter around..just annoying, that's all16:34
* Jucato has stopped expecting any form of "commercial" equality for Kubuntu... lesson learned... the hard way...16:35
Jucatonetsplit!! so glad I'm with nixternal! :P16:36
Jucatoand jjesse03 :D16:36
nixternalJucato: if Canonical doesn't want to create it, why can't we?16:36
nixternalKubuntu with KDE 3.5 is a great commercial platform, if it wasn't, then I wouldn't expect us to have the larger and more profound rollouts16:36
Jucatowe can. it's just going to take more effort if we do it ourselves :)16:36
nixternaland now look, Edubuntu has a huge rollout heading their way16:37
nosrednaekimdoesn't edubuntu use alot of kde apps?16:37
Jucatounfortunately (and I don't see why/how), Canonical doesn't seem to see it that way...16:37
nixternalnosrednaekim: if you use the edubuntu-desktop-kde16:37
Jucatoor maybe because our Kubuntu rollouts bypassed Canonical? (sort of?)16:37
nixternalbut there are a few kde apps in edubuntu ootb iirc16:38
Jucatoiirc the original edubuntu (back then) had lots of kde edu apps16:38
Jucatoprobably because KDE had more edu apps than anyone else16:38
nixternalya, I haven't really played with edubuntu since Edgy I think16:38
* Jucato hasn't played with it *at all* :P16:39
Jucatooh this is bs! my neighbor's dog has been um... whining(?) for the past hour or so...16:39
Jucatoat 00:40, it's not so cute anymore16:40
nosrednaekimJucato: bullets put an end to that AFAIK.... ya'll eat dog over there don't you?16:42
Jucatonow *that* is insulting :)16:42
Jucatowe don't "all" eat dog. only some (brave souls) do16:42
nixternalreally? I didn't know that16:43
JucatoI can't even get myself to eat a goat...16:43
Jucatobut right now, a bullet for that mutt isn't a bad idea.16:44
dasKreechnixternal: No they do use a lot of KDE apps16:44
dasKreechthey were going to replace them with Gnome custom made apps16:45
dasKreechthey gave up and just shipped two cds16:45
dasKreech the edubuntu-desktop-kde is just to give you a KDE DE instead of a Gnome it's the same apps16:45
dasKreechWhich reminds me I need to go do another edubuntu rolout16:46
dasKreechThey cut the Kubuntu chapter out of the next book?16:55
dasKreechThe Buntu book16:55
dasKreechnixternal: did you say they are keeping the chapter or not keeping the chapter?16:58
nixternalthey are keeping it17:00
dasKreechah ok :)17:00
dasKreechthey better17:00
nixternaljjesse03: added the kde4 directory under our bzr branch and copied over libs and about-kubuntu for the time being17:00
* jpatrick watches as dasKreech moves for the kill17:00
dasKreechor be killed17:01
dasKreechDo we have  PPA build setup for KDE4 through Incontinent Iguana?17:02
nosrednaekimIncontinent Iguana>17:02
nosrednaekimwhat is that?17:02
jpatrickdon't we have a build system?17:03
dasKreechis it detailed anywhere?17:03
nixternalit would be kind of hard to build for hardy+1 when there isn't even a toolchain yet17:03
nixternalthose builds don't start until the week of UDS typically17:04
dasKreechnixternal: no I'm saying do we have a plan for how the build system will work?17:04
nixternalthe same way it works now and has always worked I would be guessing17:04
yuriydasKreech: pong17:05
nixternalright now, we don't even have a solid plan for hardy, so worrying or even thinking about +1 is a waste right now17:05
dasKreechyuriy: ping17:05
yuriydasKreech: from like 4 days ago..17:05
dasKreechSomeone mentioned adept and hardy so I pinged you to see if you were following17:05
dasKreechyou were17:05
dasKreechjust like 4 days behind the main group17:06
yuriyi got stuck on it on sunday, then was gone for a couple days17:06
yuriydasKreech: https://code.launchpad.net/~yuriy-kozlov/adept/adept-cmake17:07
dasKreechIf you are Yuriy Kozlov please log in for upload directions.17:07
nosrednaekimcmake works with qt3?17:07
dasKreechHa ha17:07
dasKreechWhy wouldn't it?17:07
dasKreechit's a make tool17:08
nosrednaekimdunno.... I thought it was for qt4 apps only.17:08
nosrednaekimbut I guess not :)17:08
Jucatoqt actually uses qmake :)17:08
jpatricknop, it's multiplatform build tool for anything you can get it to be friends with :)17:08
Jucatooh wait... nvm.. :)17:09
nixternalcmake works with everything17:10
yuriydasKreech: well it gives you the url to pull from (right?) if you're interested17:10
* yuriy wishes konsole would keep .bash_history chronological17:12
dasKreechIt doesn't?17:12
nosrednaekimdoes for me...17:13
yuriywhen i log out with multiple konsoles open, the history is all the commands from one session, then all the commands from another, ...17:13
yuriyfor each session they are in order17:13
nixternalya, that is a pita17:13
nosrednaekimoh... yeah...17:13
nixternaleach session creates its own history, but there is a hack for that17:13
nixternalI just can't remember where it is at17:14
JucatoI think that's "fixed" for Konsole 4... not really sure17:14
nosrednaekimkonsole4 doesn't have transparency!17:14
Jucato(that would be weird..)17:15
JucatoI think it's turned off by default, but it's there17:15
dasKreechyuriy: That's your fault :) flush them as soon as you press enter17:17
dasKreechit's a shop17:17
=== santiago-php is now known as foursixnine
=== foursixnine is now known as santiago-ve
jjesse03mmm snowing out17:19
dasKreechjjesse03: are you doing the kubuntu chap again?17:20
jjesse03dasKreech: yes i am17:23
Jucatogoodie :)17:24
Jucatogood luck! :P17:24
Jucato(you'll need it)17:24
jjesse03and its extra fun with all of this kde 3 and kde 4 stuff17:24
dasKreechjjesse03: I'm on tap for proofreading17:24
dasKreechand tips17:24
dasKreechhanging in #plasma you pick up on stuff :)17:24
fdovingis there any usefull discussion in that channel?17:25
Jucatooh a chapter won't be enough for that. whole volumes will be needed :D17:25
dasKreech_Well the good thing about people not liking gutsy that much is that you can get people to jump to hardy easier :)17:26
* Jucato still wonders if there's a guide or api docs for apt... or libapt-pkg and/or libept... whatever that is...17:26
Jucatoand curse it sooner? :P17:26
=== dasKreech_ is now known as dasKreech
dasKreechfdoving: Depends on what you call useful17:27
dasKreechthis is the annoying part about FOSS17:41
dasKreechI never sleep17:41
=== mzungu_ is now known as mzungu
Jucatohttp://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9838094-39.html "Upgrade timing demotes KDE variant of Ubuntu Linux"18:42
Jucatooh I'm on the news!!!!18:43
nosrednaekimnot a bad article..18:45
Jucatoalthough it descends into that "there should be one DE to rule them all" argument which I so loathe :)18:45
Jucatooh well... time for bed18:46
fdovingyay, jucato on the news :)18:46
Jucatofdoving: heh at least it's /. or digg :)18:46
dasKreechWe should get him on the news as much as possible :-)18:46
dasKreechMore blonts!18:46
* dasKreech turns on CNN to see if Jucato turns up18:46
dasKreechHa ha I asked aseigo about one of his blonts and Sho_ was ecstatic that his coinage had momentum18:47
nosrednaekimyeah.. has /. picked up this story yet?18:47
nosrednaekimits only a matter of time...18:47
Jucatoluckily no :)18:47
nosrednaekimthey will... they will..18:48
* dasKreech slyly submits a digg story18:48
Jucatoas long as you don't link to my blog, go for it! :D18:49
fdovingthat "there should be one DE to rule them all" argument is kind of funny, so ther is already news.com, we should cut the crap and employ all journalists there.18:49
Jucatohehe :)18:50
dasKreechWhoops didn't see that don't in the statement Jucato!18:50
* dasKreech quickly submits18:50
Jucatowell too sleepy to kill your right now :)18:51
dasKreechfdoving: Well I would say the same but about fox news18:51
dasKreechthank goodness that dog took all the bullets already18:51
JucatoI'd rather inflict on you the most painful torment known to man18:51
fdovingheh :)18:51
Jucatoa.k.a. hurt you with a gnome-tool :D18:51
fdovingi'll go svn up and read some commit logs.18:51
Jucatoanyway... night! :)18:52
fdovingnite jucato.18:54
dasKreechjpatrick: Would you happen to have mark's e-mail address?18:56
jpatrickdasKreech: sabdfl@ubuntu.com ?18:57
dasKreechsweet :)18:57
dasKreechmailing him18:57
mhbjucato on the news?19:00
jjesse03on what news?19:01
jpatrickdasKreech: I think it's mark@ubuntu.com19:01
=== kitterma is now known as ScottK2
dasKreechjpatrick: hmm ok19:02
jpatrickI got mail from him once (from that)19:02
imbrandonhe also uses mark.shuttleworth@ubuntu.com ( and some @canonical.com addresses ) its easy enough to find in the -devel and other ML archives19:02
fdovinghe writes to kubuntu-devel from mark@canonical.com19:05
fdovingalso launchpad probably lists a few addresses.19:05
fdovingor one, atleast.19:05
mhbI see.19:09
mhbit was just a matter of time until someone considers it news-worthy :o)19:10
dasKreechmhb: lts ?19:11
mhbhmm, we're still leaderless19:11
mhbdasKreech: yep19:11
imbrandonmhb: and likely to be untill after the holiday break19:11
dasKreechI'm sorry am I missing something?19:11
imbrandondasKreech: Riddell is on vacation19:12
dasKreechWell I'm thinking if we are making more overtures to play up the community in Kubuntu's future we shouldn't be stopped by Riddell being missing19:14
mhbdasKreech: I've got no problem with him on vacation, I just kind of ... you know ... like that chap.19:15
dasKreechMe too19:15
dasKreechbut aseigo's latest post is saying something that should hold true for us as well19:16
jjesse03which post?19:17
dasKreechBest Xmas present19:18
dasKreechI think19:18
jjesse03ah thanks19:29
jjesse03hello Lure19:35
mhbthis whole KDE vs. GNOME fight encourages my idea that the whole environment idea is silly.19:41
mhbthe *true* distro should ship the best apps, no matter what the toolkit.19:42
fdovingfreedos is pretty nice. little duplicity.19:43
dasKreechmhb: not on one Cd they shouldn't19:43
mhbdasKreech: why not?19:47
mhbif app A is better than app B, an ideal distro would include app A.19:47
mhbfor me.19:47
dasKreechyou'd fill it up with libraries before you finish puttin on apps19:47
CheGuevaraso true19:53
CheGuevaraand imagine your browser and your word processing program use a completely different file selection dialog19:53
CheGuevaraso much for consistency19:54
mhbimagine all environments actually settling on a mechanism so that file selection dialogs can be consistent19:54
dasKreechand imagine the years that it would take to stop having that argument19:55
mhbI'm sure it will exist by 201019:55
mhbafter all, we can (almost) share icons nowadays!19:55
dasKreechYou should be able to preview images in the File dialog!19:55
dasKreechWe agree!19:55
dasKreechand Videos!19:55
dasKreechAre you on crack?19:55
dasKreech18 months to resolve19:56
mhbI wish.19:56
yuriyi'd prefer going the other way, treat the environment as part of the OS and make the best use of the available libraries instead of obsessing over supporting other environments19:56
mhbbut this way it's more sport. We set the rules and "may the best app win"19:57
mhbthe other way means we all should hop on to GNOME, because it's more popular19:57
CheGuevaraby 2010 gnome will be gone if nothign major changes19:59
CheGuevaraqt is advancing sooo quick19:59
CheGuevaraand gtk is barely moving19:59
CheGuevaraok may be not gone, thats a bit too far19:59
CheGuevarabut its use will decrease a lot20:00
mhbby 2010 KDE may be gone, too20:01
mhbafter all, no distro is pushing it too aggresively20:01
mhband Qt has always been customer oriented, that's why we have to subclass it all.20:01
CheGuevaraits hard to switch thats the problem20:02
CheGuevaraimagine the next release of ubuntu coming with kde standard20:03
CheGuevarapeople are gonna go like "WTF?!"20:03
mhbsure, so it's never going to happen?20:03
CheGuevaranot because its better or worse, its so different20:03
CheGuevaraone thing can happen20:03
CheGuevarapopularity of existand and new KDE distros increase20:03
mhbbut I can imagine Canonical demoting KDE into universe and cancelling the last resources poured into Kubuntu.20:03
CheGuevarapopularity of gnome one lowers20:03
mhbI can imagine that quite easily.20:04
CheGuevarayeah but Kubuntu is not the most popular kde distro anyway20:04
CheGuevaraand to be fair20:04
CheGuevarathey only sponsor one dev20:04
CheGuevaralook at the success of PclinuxOS20:04
mhbI've seen a few ex-Ubuntu folks using it, but nothing more.20:05
mhbI don't see masses of Windows users migrating to it20:05
CheGuevarai've seen it beating ubuntu on distrowatch20:05
CheGuevaraam not talking about windows vs linux really20:06
CheGuevarabut gnome vs kde20:06
CheGuevarawindows vs linux unfortunately doesn't depend entirely on DE20:06
CheGuevaraor code at all for that fact20:07
Lure_now we are on lwn - no announcement needed anymore: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/263161/b6cd41ede0d8629f/20:09
nixternaloh lord, and they quote me in it20:10
CheGuevaraout of 1,479,105 visits on my site 1.27% is linux20:10
CheGuevaraat least need to beat mac20:11
mhbnixternal: they had to, cause they quoted Jucato on news.com20:11
mhbquick! Write something about Kubuntu not being LTS to get in the news!20:12
nixternalbut Jucato is far more famous than I am, he is damn near "mortal" compared to me :)20:12
stdinI knew there was a reason I didn't reply to those emails20:12
nixternal"...;and majority of our users follow our releases and typically upgrade on release day, the amount of noise created in the past about dist-upgrade breakage supports this."20:13
nixternalglad they got that one there in20:13
dasKreechha ha :)20:18
dasKreechNo side notes about upgrading on release day for Vista?20:18
jpatrickmhb: "if app A is better than app B" <- better is a point of view20:20
dasKreechmade by the guy who packages!20:21
* dasKreech nods20:21
mhbjpatrick: it most definitely is20:21
mhbjpatrick: the maintainer of the distro should decide which apps are "better" for his target audience20:22
dasKreechmhb: So. You are saying install debian?20:22
mhbjpatrick: but he shouldn't be limited by the fact that app A is KDE and app B is GNOME.20:22
mhbwhich says nothing about them20:22
mhbwell, almost nothing20:22
dasKreechor xterm :)20:23
mhbdasKreech: I'm only saying that this whole desktop environment A, B and C brought us a lot of misery20:23
dasKreechmhb: Only at the start of their lives20:23
dasKreechI hardly think it's bad now20:23
nixternalholy smokes people in Chicago are thick20:23
nixternalwtf is so hard to understand that if it starts with a K, there is no damn LTS20:24
jpatrickmhb: it boils down to "why do I need a DE when I have a tty that does it all for me"20:24
dasKreechnixternal: tell them to eat less hot dogs20:24
nixternaldasKreech: mmm hot dogs20:24
dasKreechLike Kino?20:24
mhbjpatrick: well...20:25
nixternaljpatrick: use Emacs!20:25
nixternalbe like Stallman, we don't need you anyways :p20:25
mhbjpatrick: it won't edit your images well20:25
dasKreechI do20:25
mhbpoor jpatrick20:25
nixternallet's get um!20:25
dasKreechit's a pain getting my SVG all nice in tty20:25
mhbwell I'm the one who's complain and he gets the wrong end of the pitchfork20:25
nixternalI can write a quick qtscript that will take those images and convert them into ascii art if that is what you need :)20:25
dasKreechBut Matrix plays nicely :)20:25
dasKreechnixternal: oh please do20:26
=== jpetso_ is now known as jpetso
nixternaldasKreech: learn to use imagemagick, I thought there was a flag you could use to do ascii art20:26
nixternaldunno with svg's though20:26
mhbI'm pretty unhappy about the current state of things. Great apps put aside because they're GNOME or KDE.20:28
dasKreechyeah I know but that's mostly KDE's fault20:28
mhbkaffeine is a 100% better than Totem, but thanks to this purism it's not good enough to be in Ubuntu20:29
* mhb feels sorry for the devs20:29
mhbor k3b, that's a better example20:29
mhbI guess.20:29
mhbthere's not a single criteria I can think of that makes anything GNOMish better than k3b.20:30
nixternalya, I am not a huge fan of kaffeine20:30
dasKreechmhb: It has too many options20:30
mhbdasKreech: too many as in?20:31
mhbdasKreech: I'm pretty sure Nero has more20:31
dasKreechWhich is also not a good Gnome app20:31
mhband it's (probably) one of the most popular burning software20:31
dasKreechGnomebaker is much better for a Gnome environment20:31
mhbyeah, but it's good enough for the simplest of users20:31
nixternalk3b has to many options? whoa, that is a first...k3b has just enough options, and all are explained well enough to the point you really don't have to research much20:31
nixternalomg, I just told dude that KDE 4 is in universe, so he is like "so all I have to do is add multiverse"20:32
nixternalI need to get out of Chicago20:32
* dasKreech preps the spare room for nixternal20:33
jpatrickhmm, amarok would be a better example20:35
nixternalya, amarok is pretty pimp and easy to use...there is some missing functionality though that could make it much better20:36
nixternallike autorecognition of portable media players and daapd servers20:36
yuriyit does autorecognize portamble media players doesn't it? or at least it autorecognizes usb sticks, which is kind of annoying20:39
nixternaloh ya it does, but you still have to config it don't you?20:41
nixternalit should be transparent, just like plugging in your iPod or what not in windows or osx20:42
* nixternal needs some food20:42
mhbtoo bad we have to spend time developing one media player for KDE, one for GNOME ...20:43
mhbI mean sure, it's great that there are several versions20:43
mhbbut we need two people for including one feature in both20:44
mhbthat means suddenly, there's a guy wanting to implement exactly that what nixternal described, but alas, he's an Ubuntist.20:44
dasKreechso just use xlibs20:51
mhbyeah, just use <insert some old-fashioned technology that nobody uses but it actually fulfills your needs here>20:52
dasKreechmhb: Wouldn't that solve your issues :)21:00
ardchoilleHmm.. personal package archive in LP sounds interesting21:01
mhbdasKreech: nope.21:01
dasKreechmhb: It takes the DE out of the equation and allows the best app to rise21:01
mhbah, those were the times when people judged apps by their quality and free software developers worked together, not against the Other Evil Environment :o)21:02
dasKreechWho works against the OEE?21:08
dasKreechnot the EED21:08
mhbdasKreech: aren't we all?21:10
mhbKDE is trying to beat GNOME and vice versa21:10
mhbthe officials may say otherwise, but the truth is clear21:11
dasKreechmhb: that's true of all OSS projects21:11
dasKreechthe economy of FOSS isn't money it's mindshare21:12
=== uga|away is now known as uga
mayecowhat happend with the tags thing in dolpin?21:22
dasKreechmayeco: What about it?21:36
mayecodasKreech: is working or what?21:37
yuriyyay adept_manager built21:37
mayecodasKreech: i recently build a fresh svn copy adn I dont see that21:37
dasKreechdo you have nepomuk?21:39
mayecodasKreech: yes21:43
dasKreechand started strigi?21:44
yuriyhmm CMake Error: ERROR: Could not find KDE4 kde4-config22:46
jpatrickyuriy: do you have the prefix=/usr/lib/kde4?22:47
yuriyjpatrick: i'm trying to port something and i'm using the rc2 packages from ppa. i added FIND_PACKAGE(KDE4 REQUIRED) to the cmake file. which prefix are you referring to?22:50
jpatrickyuriy: the one; cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/lib/kde422:51
jpatrickthat might work22:51
yuriyyep thanks22:51
yuriynixternal: hmm? where would that go?22:52
nixternal-DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX is now set in cdbs/kde.mk as long as you are merging in the new cdbs changes from debian22:52
jpatrickhe's porting adept22:52
jpatrick(I think)22:52
nixternalyuriy: you want me to upload the updated debian/rules and debian/cdbs for you to use?22:53
yuriyheh or trying to... i'm still fairly certain i'll give up shortly into it22:53
nixternalsince we are using them for all of our KDE4 packages now22:53
yuriynixternal: sure22:53
nixternalk, one sec22:53
mhbyuriy: actually, you're not going to give up, you're going to finish it and have the sources ready by tomorrow morning!22:54
nixternalyuriy: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~nixternal/KDE4/22:56
yuriydebian/cdbs/kde.mk:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk: No such file or directory23:05
jpatrickyuriy: install "cdbs"23:05
yuriyit's installed23:05
yuriythis is on gutsy btw23:06
jpatrickaha, install quilt23:06
nixternalalso make sure your debian/*.install files are prefixed with usr/lib/kde4/ as well23:07
* yuriy wasn't using the packaging stuff so far and just using cmake/make directly23:08
=== apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger

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