[00:01] <nixternal> ok, been laying around the past couple of days quite ill, read the "Foundation of Qt Development" all the way through and danimo's "The book of Qt4"...I am ready to start hacking!
[00:02] <Jucato> aw... you feeling better now? :(
[00:02] <nixternal> I just realized, I have 5 books on Qt development
[00:02] <nixternal> no, still feeling pretty bad
[00:02] <nixternal> I come back to the puter for a few minutes once or twice a day
[00:03] <Jucato> :(
[00:03] <Jucato> don't read my post then... might make you feel worse
[00:03] <nixternal> to late :p
[00:03] <Jucato> but good for you you have 5 books :)
[00:03] <Jucato> all Qt 4?
[00:03] <nixternal> ya
[00:03] <nixternal> 4 C++ and 1 Python
[00:03] <Jucato> nvm the Python
[00:03] <Jucato> lol :D
[00:03] <nixternal> hahaha
[00:03]  * Jucato hides from mhb
[00:03] <nixternal> I am with you on that...I am still not a fan of it myself
[00:04] <nixternal> I have been doing project euler stuff with c++ and python, and c++ is just faster and easier to code for me
[00:04] <Jucato> it's not bad. but the python book I got seems to be crap for beginners... even though it claims to be for beginners...
[00:05] <Vorian> Jucato, the o'reiley one?
[00:05] <nixternal> Beginning Python?
[00:05] <Jucato> no. APress
[00:05] <nixternal> with all the GTK crap in it?
[00:05] <Jucato> Practical Python
[00:05] <nixternal> ya, I have that book and Beginning Python (Wrox publishing)
[00:05] <nixternal> both blow pretty hard
[00:05] <Jucato> heh :)
[00:05] <nixternal> the best Python book I have read thus far, is the damn PyQt4 book
[00:06] <nixternal> the first 3 chapters are purely python, and super easy to follow and pickup
[00:06] <nixternal> then again, every Mark Summerfield book is pretty good
[00:06] <nixternal> great, snow on the way, up to 8 inches
[00:06] <nixternal> not liking this
[00:06] <Jucato> I though the Practical Python book would be good, seeing that there seems to be really practical applications being taught in there... but the introductory parts of the book weren't that good... and those were the parts that introduced python for beginners
[00:06] <Vorian> yah, any Frank Herbert book is good too.
[00:06]  * Vorian hides
[00:07] <Vorian> nixternal, that's a crazy amount of snow... again
[00:07] <Jucato> snow...
[00:07] <Jucato> the only snow I have is on my wallpaper :D
[00:07] <Vorian> ha!
[00:07] <Jucato> er.. "desktop background"
[00:07] <Vorian> that's too bad :(
[00:08] <nixternal> we have been in the upper 40s all week pretty much
[00:08] <nixternal> I think the weather changing is what is killing me
[00:08] <Jucato> ah finally jjesse's blog is on the planet!
[00:08] <Jucato> nixternal: I'm vulnerable to that too :(
[00:09] <Jucato> luckily the weather the past days have been constant: warm/hot
[00:09] <Jucato> hottest Christmas evar!
[00:20]  * nosrednaekim wants snow! nixternal... blow some to the east coast!
[00:29] <nosrednaekim> actually, I retract that... I have a couple parties I want to go to this weekend.
[00:29] <cheguevara_> :P
[00:46] <mayeco> I'm runing the last hardy cd...
[00:47] <mayeco> you know that lost & found menu have too much crazy programs
[00:47] <nosrednaekim> mayeco: that usually happens with the alphas.
[00:47] <mayeco> ahhh ok
[02:33] <jjesse> ok question on compiling kde4, getting an error on kdepimlibs "ERROR: Could not find KDE4 kde4-config" runing as my primary user and i have sourced a .bashrc already
[02:40] <cheguevara_> jjesse: stupid check but you got kdelibs compiled?
[02:46] <Jucato> jjesse: "which kde4-config" ?
[03:08] <jjesse> cheguevara_: yes i got kdelibs compiled
[03:08] <jjesse> hrm nothing shows up for which kde4-config
[03:08] <cheguevara_> updatedb && locate kde4-config
[03:09] <Jucato> jjesse: maybe the correct KDEDIR hasn't been set...
[03:09] <cheguevara_> then check that wherever it finds it is under "env | grep PATH"
[03:09] <Jucato> (that too)
[03:10] <jjesse> pastebin for env
[03:11] <jjesse> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/3065/
[03:11] <jjesse> locate pastebin: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/3066/
[03:11] <Jucato> jjesse: is kde4-config in kde/bin?
[03:12] <jjesse> Jucato: which kde/bin?
[03:12] <Jucato> /home/jjesse/kde/bin (presuming that's where you're installing KDE4?)
[03:12] <jjesse> in ~/kde/bin doesn't list kde4-config
[03:12] <Jucato> hm... that's a problem then...
[03:13] <jjesse> figured, i was able to install/build kdelibs
[03:13] <Jucato> maybe your kdelibs didn't build properly, or the correct env vars weren't set.. (do you have $KDEDIR set?)
[03:13] <cheguevara_> because that doesn't really need anythithing kde-wise, only  some support libs
[03:13] <jjesse> i source a .bashrc before i try to bid
[03:14] <jjesse> build
[03:14] <cheguevara_> lets see the .bashrc
[03:14] <jjesse> its the script from techbase
[03:14] <Jucato> cheguevara_: which doesn't need anything kde-wise?
[03:14] <jjesse> kdelibs doesn't need kde4-config
[03:14] <cheguevara_> kdelibs
[03:14] <cheguevara_> yeah
[03:14] <Jucato> yes. kdelibs creates kde4-config :)
[03:14] <cheguevara_> yeah :P
[03:15] <jjesse> this is the .bashrc i'm using http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Getting_Started/Increased_Productivity_in_KDE4_with_Scripts/.bashrc
[03:15] <Jucato> jjesse: those 3 lines are the only output of the "env" command?
[03:15] <cheguevara_> jjesse: if its the exact one then it should be fine, i used that just a week ago
[03:15] <cheguevara_> jjesse: are you following that guide to build/install it as well?
[03:15] <jjesse> cheguevara_: did you have to change anything on it to run/build as your primary user?
[03:16] <jjesse> cheguevara_: i'm using the guide on techbase
[03:16] <jjesse> http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Getting_Started/Build/KDE4
[03:16] <cheguevara_> jjesse: i actually created a new user like a good boy that i am :P
[03:16] <Jucato> he's using the guide to build kde4 not on a separate user, but on his primary (kde3) user
[03:16]  * Jucato nods
[03:16] <Jucato> I ain't so daring either :P
[03:16] <jjesse> full output of ENV  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/3067/
[03:17] <jjesse> i had problems with KDE4 from the beta2 packags and people suggested i just build it myself to resolve those problems
[03:17] <Jucato> hm... looks ok...
[03:17] <jjesse> i guess i could just install the beta packages again
[03:17]  * Jucato wonders what went wrong...
[03:17] <jjesse> that are on kubuntu.org
[03:17] <cheguevara_> did you remove the previous packages
[03:17] <Jucato> rc2 you mean right :)
[03:17] <jjesse> yeah r2
[03:18] <nosredna_ekim> its a beta2.... ;)
[03:18] <Jucato> hush! :P
[03:18] <jjesse> cheguevara_: i had to because i was getting errors on soprano not being the right version
[03:18] <cheguevara_> jjesse: just create a new user, you'll make things easier for yourself
[03:18] <jjesse> cheguevara_: but i really liked the look and feel of kde4 :)
[03:19] <cheguevara_> yeah so create a different user and use it from there :P
[03:19] <jjesse> cheguevara_: i wastyring to use it as my day to day
[03:19] <cheguevara_> exactly 2 weeks left till final now :)
[03:19] <jjesse> i guess i can wait till final then
[03:19] <cheguevara_> i use mine as main main DE as well
[03:20] <cheguevara_> latest SVN is pretty good
[03:20] <cheguevara_> haven't crashed once yet
[03:20] <nosredna_ekim> rc2 has only crashed once for me.... and that was because of Krita
[03:21] <jjesse> i get crashes on my laptop all the time, screen freezes and won't respond, all the windows blur together, can't suspend, can't lock screen
[03:21] <cheguevara_> meh plasma in rc 2 died on me quiet a lot
[03:22] <cheguevara_> i wish novell would port knetworkmanager to kde 4 already
[03:22] <nosredna_ekim> jjesse: you have the blue plugin enabled?
[03:22] <nosredna_ekim> *blur
[03:22]  * jjesse doesn't remember
[03:22] <Jucato> http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1005960 <-- oh great, no-lts has reached linux journal...
[03:23] <nosredna_ekim> heh
[03:23] <Jucato> it's the most accurate article I've seen so far, though :D
[03:23] <nosredna_ekim> besides your's ;)
[03:24] <jjesse> i'm impressed on how much extr traffic i'm getting now that i added my blog to planet.ubuntu.com
[03:24] <Jucato> (except for the part that presumes that KDE 4 was planned for the LTS)
[03:24] <Jucato> it's the only traffic I ever get :P
[03:24] <cheguevara_> are we gonna have 4.0.1 or going straight to 4.1 ?
[03:25] <Jucato> 4.0 probably... when is 4.0.1 planned anyway? :D
[03:25] <Jucato> hey.... 4.0 isn't even out yet!!!
[03:25] <Jucato> :P
[03:25] <cheguevara_> yeah but i am worried about a bugfix release before April :P
[03:25] <Jucato> I guess it all depends... 4.0 or 4.0.1 with 3.5.8 or 3.5.9
[03:25] <cheguevara_> yeah 3.5.9 should come out soon i think
[03:25] <cheguevara_> and be the last :P
[03:25] <Jucato> it always depends on what KDE version is available at the nearest time to the release :)
[03:26] <Jucato> aw... I was looking forward to 3.5.22-14 :(
[03:26] <nosredna_ekim> heh
[03:26] <cheguevara_> yeah just thinking about kde people releasing 4.0, then getting all excited about getting in all those moules that missed the freeze and just concentrating on that again :P
[03:27] <Jucato> right... lunch :)
[03:27]  * Jucato wonders if there's a KDE alphabet soup... with K's only :D
[03:27] <cheguevara_> haha
[03:28] <ardchoille> hehe
[03:28] <cheguevara_> though kde 4.1 against qt 4.4 should be pretty impressive :P
[03:29] <jjesse> wow that email from Luka was awesome
[03:30] <nosredna_ekim> too long ;)
[03:45] <jjesse> Jucato: when you got a second can you review the adept guide (just for adept) for accuracy and send me a diff of any changes
[03:46] <jjesse> i love (american) college football bowl season
[03:46] <jjesse> a game almost every night :)
[03:46] <nosredna_ekim> football is boring..
[03:47] <jjesse> maybe you are boring :)
[03:47] <nosredna_ekim> Engineers aren't boring.... they just get excited over boring things...
[03:47] <nosredna_ekim> ;)
[03:49] <jjesse> and now he left :(
[03:49] <nixternal> he shall return!
[03:50] <jjesse> grumble why can't konqueror's spell check know how to spell KDE apps
[03:50] <jjesse> hello nixternal
[03:50] <nixternal> howdy
[03:50] <nixternal> ready for some more snow tomorrow?
[03:51] <cheguevara_> save some snow for EU already :P
[03:51] <nixternal> burritos + being sick == much worse
[03:51] <jjesse> are you getting it tonight?
[03:51] <nixternal> tomorrow
[03:51] <jjesse> that's what she said
[03:51] <nixternal> from 08:00 to 18:00
[03:51] <cheguevara_> lol
[03:51] <nixternal> 6+ inches
[03:51] <jjesse> that's what she said
[03:51] <jjesse> man i love the office
[03:51] <cheguevara_> haha
[03:51] <nixternal> except for the 6+ inches part
[03:51] <nixternal> ;p
[03:52] <jjesse> nixternal: you have mail from me
[03:52] <nixternal> uh oh
[03:52]  * cheguevara_ feels left out
[03:52] <jjesse> nixternal: also got several emails from soemone who wants to help out with kubuntu docs
[03:53] <nixternal> ya, I seen that on the -docs ml
[03:53] <jjesse> anyways after i emailed the list back he emailed me a couple of things and i got him working on stuff already
[03:53] <nixternal> groovy
[03:54] <nixternal> I am wondering if we should create kubuntu-docs-kde4
[03:54] <jjesse> we should
[03:54] <jjesse> don't tell matt :)
[03:54] <nixternal> I haven't talked to him in a while now
[03:54] <nixternal> I don't think he is all that active anymore really
[03:55] <jjesse> me either to both of them
[03:55] <jjesse> not since jsut after uds
[03:55] <nixternal> I think the last time I talked to him, it was still hot out
[03:56] <CheGuevara> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/ihascomeforu128415571375427500.jpg
[03:56] <jjesse> anyone seen the movie "I am Legend"?
[03:56] <nixternal> hahaha
[03:56] <nixternal> jjesse: I just bought it on DVD for $5
[03:56] <nixternal> and I must say, it is amazing
[03:56] <jjesse> the new movie w/ will smith or an old version?
[03:56] <nixternal> the new movie
[03:56] <jjesse> the one that is still in the theatre?
[03:57] <nixternal> i was at the mall yesterday and some dude driving around in a white van selling them stopped me
[03:57] <jjesse> haha
[03:57] <jjesse> that's awesome
[03:57] <jjesse> i saw it on IMAX
[03:57] <jjesse> and it was freakin unbeliveable
[03:57] <CheGuevara> nixternal: is it good quality?
[03:57] <nixternal> CheGuevara: like a real dvd
[03:57] <CheGuevara> oh yeah dvd screener is out
[03:57] <CheGuevara> thats why
[03:57] <jjesse> best part of the movie wwas the batman preview
[03:58] <nixternal> but you know with dvd screeners, how they usually have the stuff/timers on the bottom? this one didn't
[03:58] <nixternal> it was like if you bought a real dvd with the groovy menus and all
[03:58] <jjesse> wow thats crazy
[03:58] <nixternal> I have never in my life witnessed something like this
[03:58] <nixternal> he had a portable dvd player with him so you could witness the quality before you bought it...I about flipped
[03:59] <CheGuevara> nixternal: no text like  "This SECURE SCREENER is on loan for viewing by you, the member, it is DIGITALLY WATERMARKED."
[03:59] <nixternal> none whatsoever
[03:59] <CheGuevara> heh
[03:59] <CheGuevara> now thats weird
[03:59] <nixternal> ya it is
[03:59] <nixternal> I have seen tons of screeners before, but this one, if it was a screener and not a rip from a dvd at the movie theaters
[03:59] <nixternal> it was the real deal
[04:00] <CheGuevara> dvd at the movie theaters?
[04:00] <CheGuevara> you mean telecine?
[04:00] <nixternal> I have no idea what they use
[04:00] <nixternal> I remember one time a guy stole dvd's from the local theater and was selling them
[04:01] <CheGuevara> why would they have dvds in a theate, they don't project movies from dvds in a cinema :P
[04:01] <nixternal> I couldn't tell ya, I don't go to the movies
[04:02] <nixternal> there are better things to do with $8 these days
[04:02] <CheGuevara> lol neither do i
[04:02] <CheGuevara> but i know way too much then an average person about movie piracy
[04:02] <CheGuevara> lets just say i got a background :P
[04:02] <nixternal> haha
[04:03] <nixternal> where are you from again :p
[04:03] <CheGuevara> originally from Russia, lived in US, now in UK
[04:03] <nixternal> so where did you pick up your background? russia or NYC :p
[04:04] <CheGuevara> US, and no i wasnt selling dvds :P
[04:04] <CheGuevara> was in a scene group
[04:05] <nixternal> where at in the US did you live?
[04:05] <CheGuevara> cali
[04:05]  * jjesse beds talk to you all tomorrow :)
[04:05] <nixternal> groovy
[04:05] <nixternal> k'nite jjesse
[04:05] <CheGuevara> nite jjesse
[04:05] <CheGuevara> santa barbara to be exact
[04:06] <CheGuevara> the ocean was great :P
[04:06] <CheGuevara> unlike this damn wet and cold place lol
[04:44] <Jucato> jjesse: will do. but after the holidays I presume...
[04:46]  * Jucato takes a short nap to recharge before doing some "spring cleaning" :)
[05:07] <CheGuevara> awww
[05:07] <CheGuevara> plasma is taking 93% cpu
[05:32] <CheGuevara> good night
[06:28] <yuriy> ooh jjesse is on planet
[10:01] <dinosaur-rus> hi all
[11:29] <Tonio_> hi there
[11:29] <Tonio_> had a good christmas ?
[11:30] <Hobbsee> heya Tonio_!
[11:46] <Tonio_> hey Hobbsee :)
[11:46] <Tonio_> I love that period in between christmas and new year's day
[11:46] <Hobbsee> why?
[12:05] <Jucato> peace, silence... nothing to do? :)
[12:05] <Jucato> hi Tonio_! hi Hobbsee!
[12:05] <Hobbsee> insane customers.
[12:06] <Jucato> :D
[12:06] <Jucato> Rule #1: The customer is always right. Rule #2: If the customer is wrong, see rule #1. :D
[12:07] <Hobbsee> rule #1:  the customer who claims to be right usually isnt.  rule #2:  see rule 1.
[12:07] <Jucato> hahah :)
[12:08] <Jucato> Rule #1: Whoever made the "customer is always right" rule is a git. Rule #2: Nothing follows
[12:08]  * Jucato twiddles thumbs innocently
[12:08] <Hobbsee> rule #1:  stupid customers deserve to be minced.
[12:08] <Jucato> minced, diced, and fried to a crisp! :)
[12:20] <wolfger> taking a lesson from Sweeny Todd, eh Hobbsee?
[12:50] <mhb> Jucato: you can't really hide, you know :o)
[12:50]  * Jucato trashes his invisibility cloak... useless POS...
[12:52] <mhb> Jucato: so what did you do this time? :o)
[12:53] <Jucato> nothing! I'm innocent I tell ya!
[12:54]  * Jucato wonders if we should be thinking of a Qt4/KDE4 substitute for Adept as early as now...
[12:54] <mhb> I thought we're using PackageKit
[12:54] <mhb> when it comes out.
[12:55] <mhb> (Hardy+1 hopefully)
[12:55] <Jucato> I hope it were something definite by this time... or we're in for a lot of trouble... unless kpackage becomes actively maintained again
[12:56] <Jucato> hm... does that depend on Ubuntu switching to PackageKit or not?
[12:56] <mhb> no idea.
[12:56] <mhb> probably.
[12:57] <Jucato> that's going to be the problem... if Ubuntu doesn't make the switch, we're kinda left hanging, unless we dare to move to packagekit by ourselves, or port adept (eww?) or use something else...
[12:57] <Jucato> ah... too much to think about as the year ends :P
[13:03] <wolfger> port Synaptic? ;-)
[13:04]  * Jucato shudders at Kynaptic...
[13:06] <Che> kynaptic
[13:06] <Che> Updated:  Apr 9 2005
[13:06] <Che> useless :P
[13:06] <Jucato> the app is useless in itself even during that time
[13:06] <Jucato> well not really useless
[13:07] <Jucato> you can install and remove. that's it. (irrc)
[13:07] <Jucato> iirc*
[13:07] <Che> heh
[13:08] <Che> does packagekit have a qt frontend yet
[13:08] <Jucato> yeah I think it does
[13:09] <Che> ah QPackageKit
[13:09]  * Jucato nods
[13:10] <Jucato> of course the frontend is less of a problem as the backend's support of DEB/APT
[13:13] <Che> aint there at least one person working on that
[13:13] <Che> as always rpm/yum have paid devs from suse and redhat
[13:13] <Che> and deb/apt doesnt :P
[13:13] <Jucato> but deb/apt has the geeks!!!!
[13:13] <Jucato> :D
[13:15] <Che> hehe
[13:52] <jjesse03> morning
[13:52] <jjesse03> left my laptop on at home and it keeps reconnecting :(
[13:53] <Hobbsee> how useful
[13:53] <Hobbsee> ssh?
[13:54] <jjesse03> hello Hobbsee
[13:54] <jjesse03> don't have open to my laptop
[13:54] <Hobbsee> ahh
[13:54] <jjesse03> from work
[13:55] <jjesse03> how are you Hobbsee ?
[15:03] <mhb> hey folks
[15:04] <mhb> soo, how many of you tried the Oxygen cursor theme?
[15:07] <jjesse03> mhb: did you see that i added myself to planet.ubuntu.com ?
[15:07] <mhb> jjesse03: I have, that's great newss
[15:07] <mhb> sss :o)
[15:07] <jjesse03> thanks golem
[15:56] <nixternal> jjesse03: I see that Pearson is treating us like a step-child too
[15:56] <Jucato> Pearson?
[15:57] <Vorian> feeling any better today nixternal?
[15:58]  * Jucato hopes :)
[15:58] <nixternal> still kinda cruddy, but I gotta get through it today...gotta snowblow/shovel
[16:00] <dasKreech> Yo Jucato  :)
[16:00] <Jucato> yo dasKreech! :]
[16:00] <dasKreech> Sup?
[16:01] <Jucato> the ceiling (fortunately)
[16:02] <dasKreech> Need a small hurricane to take care of that?
[16:02] <Jucato> no thanks :)
[16:02] <Jucato> nixternal: who/what is Pearson?
[16:07] <dasKreech> Anyone on KubuntuDE4?
[16:08] <mhb> dasKreech: I was, but plasma went greedy again.
[16:08] <mhb> so I'm back at openbox until it calms down.
[16:08] <dasKreech> can you delete the ~Desktop Folder and logout/in ?
[16:08] <dasKreech> I wanna see if it gets recreated
[16:08] <dasKreech> or you know
[16:09] <dasKreech> mv it :)
[16:09] <mhb> I can do that later, not now though.
[16:11] <dasKreech> sure
[16:11] <dasKreech> If I'm offline just leave me a message
[16:19] <nixternal> Jucato: pearson are the book people for ubuntu
[16:19] <Jucato> ooh that one :)
[16:19]  * Jucato guessed so
[16:20] <Jucato> my C++ books is actually republished by Pearson and sold at a lower price for 3rd world countries (like mine)
[16:20] <Jucato> s/books/book/
[16:21] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: the politically correct ord for that now is "developing nations"
[16:22] <jjesse03> nixternal: ah well we've always only had one chapter
[16:22] <mhb> stop insulting yourself Jucato :o)
[16:22] <Jucato> nosrednaekim: same thing :P
[16:22] <Jucato> mhb: I'm not insulted :D
[16:23] <Jucato> I'm just 1 degree lower than Kubuntu (2nd class citizen :P)
[16:24] <mhb> I always travel 2nd class :o)
[16:24] <mhb> 1st one is for snobs anyway :o)
[16:26] <dasKreech> Jucato: class and world are towns apart!
[16:34] <nixternal> jjesse03: I am surprised that they are even keeping the chapter around..just annoying, that's all
[16:35]  * Jucato has stopped expecting any form of "commercial" equality for Kubuntu... lesson learned... the hard way...
[16:36] <Jucato> netsplit!! so glad I'm with nixternal! :P
[16:36] <Jucato> and jjesse03 :D
[16:36] <nixternal> Jucato: if Canonical doesn't want to create it, why can't we?
[16:36] <nixternal> Kubuntu with KDE 3.5 is a great commercial platform, if it wasn't, then I wouldn't expect us to have the larger and more profound rollouts
[16:36] <Jucato> we can. it's just going to take more effort if we do it ourselves :)
[16:37] <nixternal> and now look, Edubuntu has a huge rollout heading their way
[16:37] <nosrednaekim> doesn't edubuntu use alot of kde apps?
[16:37] <Jucato> unfortunately (and I don't see why/how), Canonical doesn't seem to see it that way...
[16:37] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: if you use the edubuntu-desktop-kde
[16:37] <Jucato> or maybe because our Kubuntu rollouts bypassed Canonical? (sort of?)
[16:38] <nixternal> but there are a few kde apps in edubuntu ootb iirc
[16:38] <Jucato> iirc the original edubuntu (back then) had lots of kde edu apps
[16:38] <Jucato> probably because KDE had more edu apps than anyone else
[16:38] <nixternal> ya, I haven't really played with edubuntu since Edgy I think
[16:39]  * Jucato hasn't played with it *at all* :P
[16:39] <Jucato> oh this is bs! my neighbor's dog has been um... whining(?) for the past hour or so...
[16:40] <Jucato> at 00:40, it's not so cute anymore
[16:40] <nixternal> lol
[16:42] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: bullets put an end to that AFAIK.... ya'll eat dog over there don't you?
[16:42] <Jucato> now *that* is insulting :)
[16:42] <Jucato> we don't "all" eat dog. only some (brave souls) do
[16:42] <nosrednaekim> hehe
[16:43] <nixternal> really? I didn't know that
[16:43] <Jucato> I can't even get myself to eat a goat...
[16:44] <Jucato> but right now, a bullet for that mutt isn't a bad idea.
[16:44] <dasKreech> nixternal: No they do use a lot of KDE apps
[16:45] <dasKreech> they were going to replace them with Gnome custom made apps
[16:45] <dasKreech> they gave up and just shipped two cds
[16:45] <dasKreech>  the edubuntu-desktop-kde is just to give you a KDE DE instead of a Gnome it's the same apps
[16:46] <dasKreech> Which reminds me I need to go do another edubuntu rolout
[16:55] <dasKreech> They cut the Kubuntu chapter out of the next book?
[16:55] <nosrednaekim> 0.o
[16:55] <dasKreech> The Buntu book
[16:58] <dasKreech> nixternal: did you say they are keeping the chapter or not keeping the chapter?
[17:00] <nixternal> they are keeping it
[17:00] <dasKreech> ah ok :)
[17:00] <dasKreech> they better
[17:00] <nixternal> jjesse03: added the kde4 directory under our bzr branch and copied over libs and about-kubuntu for the time being
[17:00]  * jpatrick watches as dasKreech moves for the kill
[17:01] <dasKreech> or be killed
[17:02] <dasKreech> Do we have  PPA build setup for KDE4 through Incontinent Iguana?
[17:02] <nosrednaekim> Incontinent Iguana>
[17:02] <nosrednaekim> what is that?
[17:02] <dasKreech> Hardy+1
[17:03] <nosrednaekim> :)
[17:03] <jpatrick> don't we have a build system?
[17:03] <dasKreech> is it detailed anywhere?
[17:03] <nixternal> it would be kind of hard to build for hardy+1 when there isn't even a toolchain yet
[17:04] <nixternal> those builds don't start until the week of UDS typically
[17:04] <dasKreech> nixternal: no I'm saying do we have a plan for how the build system will work?
[17:04] <nixternal> the same way it works now and has always worked I would be guessing
[17:05] <yuriy> dasKreech: pong
[17:05] <nixternal> right now, we don't even have a solid plan for hardy, so worrying or even thinking about +1 is a waste right now
[17:05] <dasKreech> yuriy: ping
[17:05] <yuriy> dasKreech: from like 4 days ago..
[17:05] <dasKreech> Someone mentioned adept and hardy so I pinged you to see if you were following
[17:05] <dasKreech> you were
[17:06] <dasKreech> just like 4 days behind the main group
[17:06] <yuriy> i got stuck on it on sunday, then was gone for a couple days
[17:07] <yuriy> dasKreech: https://code.launchpad.net/~yuriy-kozlov/adept/adept-cmake
[17:07] <dasKreech> If you are Yuriy Kozlov please log in for upload directions.
[17:07] <nosrednaekim> cmake works with qt3?
[17:07] <dasKreech> Ha ha
[17:07] <dasKreech> Why wouldn't it?
[17:08] <dasKreech> it's a make tool
[17:08] <nosrednaekim> dunno.... I thought it was for qt4 apps only.
[17:08] <nosrednaekim> but I guess not :)
[17:08] <Jucato> qt actually uses qmake :)
[17:08] <jpatrick> nop, it's multiplatform build tool for anything you can get it to be friends with :)
[17:09] <Jucato> oh wait... nvm.. :)
[17:10] <nixternal> cmake works with everything
[17:10] <yuriy> dasKreech: well it gives you the url to pull from (right?) if you're interested
[17:12]  * yuriy wishes konsole would keep .bash_history chronological
[17:12] <dasKreech> It doesn't?
[17:13] <nosrednaekim> does for me...
[17:13] <yuriy> when i log out with multiple konsoles open, the history is all the commands from one session, then all the commands from another, ...
[17:13] <yuriy> for each session they are in order
[17:13] <nixternal> ya, that is a pita
[17:13] <nosrednaekim> oh... yeah...
[17:13] <nixternal> each session creates its own history, but there is a hack for that
[17:14] <nixternal> I just can't remember where it is at
[17:14] <Jucato> I think that's "fixed" for Konsole 4... not really sure
[17:14] <nosrednaekim> konsole4 doesn't have transparency!
[17:15] <Jucato> hm?
[17:15] <Jucato> (that would be weird..)
[17:15] <Jucato> I think it's turned off by default, but it's there
[17:17] <dasKreech> yuriy: That's your fault :) flush them as soon as you press enter
[17:17] <dasKreech> it's a shop
[17:19] <jjesse03> mmm snowing out
[17:20] <dasKreech> jjesse03: are you doing the kubuntu chap again?
[17:23] <jjesse03> dasKreech: yes i am
[17:24] <Jucato> goodie :)
[17:24] <Jucato> good luck! :P
[17:24] <Jucato> (you'll need it)
[17:24] <jjesse03> and its extra fun with all of this kde 3 and kde 4 stuff
[17:24] <dasKreech> jjesse03: I'm on tap for proofreading
[17:24] <dasKreech> and tips
[17:24] <dasKreech> hanging in #plasma you pick up on stuff :)
[17:25] <fdoving> is there any usefull discussion in that channel?
[17:25] <Jucato> oh a chapter won't be enough for that. whole volumes will be needed :D
[17:26] <dasKreech_> Well the good thing about people not liking gutsy that much is that you can get people to jump to hardy easier :)
[17:26]  * Jucato still wonders if there's a guide or api docs for apt... or libapt-pkg and/or libept... whatever that is...
[17:26] <Jucato> and curse it sooner? :P
[17:27] <dasKreech> fdoving: Depends on what you call useful
[17:41] <dasKreech> this is the annoying part about FOSS
[17:41] <dasKreech> I never sleep
[18:42] <Jucato> http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9838094-39.html "Upgrade timing demotes KDE variant of Ubuntu Linux"
[18:42] <nosrednaekim> noooooo!
[18:43] <Jucato> oh I'm on the news!!!!
[18:44] <nosrednaekim> cool...
[18:45] <nosrednaekim> not a bad article..
[18:45] <Jucato> although it descends into that "there should be one DE to rule them all" argument which I so loathe :)
[18:46] <Jucato> oh well... time for bed
[18:46] <fdoving> yay, jucato on the news :)
[18:46] <nosrednaekim> yeah....
[18:46] <Jucato> fdoving: heh at least it's /. or digg :)
[18:46] <dasKreech> We should get him on the news as much as possible :-)
[18:46] <Jucato> ;p;
[18:46] <dasKreech> More blonts!
[18:46]  * dasKreech turns on CNN to see if Jucato turns up
[18:46] <Jucato> lol
[18:47] <nosrednaekim> hehe
[18:47] <dasKreech> Ha ha I asked aseigo about one of his blonts and Sho_ was ecstatic that his coinage had momentum
[18:47] <nosrednaekim> yeah.. has /. picked up this story yet?
[18:47] <nosrednaekim> its only a matter of time...
[18:47] <Jucato> luckily no :)
[18:48] <nosrednaekim> they will... they will..
[18:48]  * dasKreech slyly submits a digg story
[18:49] <Jucato> as long as you don't link to my blog, go for it! :D
[18:49] <fdoving> that "there should be one DE to rule them all" argument is kind of funny, so ther is already news.com, we should cut the crap and employ all journalists there.
[18:50] <Jucato> hehe :)
[18:50] <dasKreech> Whoops didn't see that don't in the statement Jucato!
[18:50]  * dasKreech quickly submits
[18:50] <Jucato> lol
[18:51] <Jucato> well too sleepy to kill your right now :)
[18:51] <dasKreech> fdoving: Well I would say the same but about fox news
[18:51] <dasKreech> thank goodness that dog took all the bullets already
[18:51] <Jucato> I'd rather inflict on you the most painful torment known to man
[18:51] <fdoving> heh :)
[18:51] <Jucato> a.k.a. hurt you with a gnome-tool :D
[18:51] <fdoving> i'll go svn up and read some commit logs.
[18:51] <dasKreech> Gtk
[18:51] <dasKreech> got/torture/kill
[18:51] <dasKreech> gore
[18:52] <Jucato> anyway... night! :)
[18:52] <dasKreech> Gnight!
[18:52] <dasKreech> umm
[18:52] <dasKreech> Knight!
[18:54] <fdoving> nite jucato.
[18:55] <jjesse03> afternoon
[18:56] <dasKreech> jpatrick: Would you happen to have mark's e-mail address?
[18:57] <jpatrick> dasKreech: sabdfl@ubuntu.com ?
[18:57] <dasKreech> sweet :)
[18:57] <dasKreech> mailing him
[19:00] <mhb> jucato on the news?
[19:01] <jjesse03> on what news?
[19:01] <jpatrick> dasKreech: I think it's mark@ubuntu.com
[19:02] <dasKreech> jpatrick: hmm ok
[19:02] <jpatrick> I got mail from him once (from that)
[19:02] <dasKreech> great
[19:02] <imbrandon> he also uses mark.shuttleworth@ubuntu.com ( and some @canonical.com addresses ) its easy enough to find in the -devel and other ML archives
[19:05] <fdoving> he writes to kubuntu-devel from mark@canonical.com
[19:05] <fdoving> also launchpad probably lists a few addresses.
[19:05] <fdoving> or one, atleast.
[19:09] <mhb> I see.
[19:10] <mhb> it was just a matter of time until someone considers it news-worthy :o)
[19:11] <dasKreech> mhb: lts ?
[19:11] <mhb> hmm, we're still leaderless
[19:11] <mhb> dasKreech: yep
[19:11] <dasKreech> leaderless?
[19:11] <imbrandon> mhb: and likely to be untill after the holiday break
[19:11] <dasKreech> I'm sorry am I missing something?
[19:12] <imbrandon> dasKreech: Riddell is on vacation
[19:14] <dasKreech> Well I'm thinking if we are making more overtures to play up the community in Kubuntu's future we shouldn't be stopped by Riddell being missing
[19:15] <mhb> dasKreech: I've got no problem with him on vacation, I just kind of ... you know ... like that chap.
[19:15] <dasKreech> Me too
[19:16] <dasKreech> but aseigo's latest post is saying something that should hold true for us as well
[19:17] <jjesse03> which post?
[19:18] <dasKreech> Best Xmas present
[19:18] <dasKreech> I think
[19:18] <dasKreech> http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2007/12/best-xmas-present-of-year.html
[19:29] <jjesse03> ah thanks
[19:35] <jjesse03> hello Lure
[19:41] <mhb> this whole KDE vs. GNOME fight encourages my idea that the whole environment idea is silly.
[19:42] <mhb> the *true* distro should ship the best apps, no matter what the toolkit.
[19:43] <fdoving> freedos is pretty nice. little duplicity.
[19:43] <dasKreech> mhb: not on one Cd they shouldn't
[19:47] <mhb> dasKreech: why not?
[19:47] <mhb> if app A is better than app B, an ideal distro would include app A.
[19:47] <mhb> for me.
[19:47] <dasKreech> you'd fill it up with libraries before you finish puttin on apps
[19:53] <CheGuevara> so true
[19:53] <CheGuevara> and imagine your browser and your word processing program use a completely different file selection dialog
[19:54] <CheGuevara> so much for consistency
[19:54] <mhb> imagine all environments actually settling on a mechanism so that file selection dialogs can be consistent
[19:55] <mhb> :o)
[19:55] <dasKreech> and imagine the years that it would take to stop having that argument
[19:55] <mhb> I'm sure it will exist by 2010
[19:55] <mhb> after all, we can (almost) share icons nowadays!
[19:55] <mhb> :o)
[19:55] <dasKreech> You should be able to preview images in the File dialog!
[19:55] <dasKreech> We agree!
[19:55] <dasKreech> and Videos!
[19:55] <dasKreech> Are you on crack?
[19:56] <dasKreech> 18 months to resolve
[19:56] <mhb> I wish.
[19:56] <yuriy> i'd prefer going the other way, treat the environment as part of the OS and make the best use of the available libraries instead of obsessing over supporting other environments
[19:57] <mhb> but this way it's more sport. We set the rules and "may the best app win"
[19:57] <mhb> the other way means we all should hop on to GNOME, because it's more popular
[19:59] <CheGuevara> by 2010 gnome will be gone if nothign major changes
[19:59] <CheGuevara> qt is advancing sooo quick
[19:59] <CheGuevara> and gtk is barely moving
[19:59] <CheGuevara> ok may be not gone, thats a bit too far
[20:00] <CheGuevara> but its use will decrease a lot
[20:01] <mhb> by 2010 KDE may be gone, too
[20:01] <stdin> LIES!!
[20:01] <mhb> after all, no distro is pushing it too aggresively
[20:01] <mhb> and Qt has always been customer oriented, that's why we have to subclass it all.
[20:02] <CheGuevara> its hard to switch thats the problem
[20:03] <CheGuevara> imagine the next release of ubuntu coming with kde standard
[20:03] <CheGuevara> people are gonna go like "WTF?!"
[20:03] <mhb> sure, so it's never going to happen?
[20:03] <CheGuevara> not because its better or worse, its so different
[20:03] <CheGuevara> one thing can happen
[20:03] <CheGuevara> popularity of existand and new KDE distros increase
[20:03] <mhb> but I can imagine Canonical demoting KDE into universe and cancelling the last resources poured into Kubuntu.
[20:03] <CheGuevara> popularity of gnome one lowers
[20:04] <mhb> I can imagine that quite easily.
[20:04] <CheGuevara> yeah but Kubuntu is not the most popular kde distro anyway
[20:04] <CheGuevara> and to be fair
[20:04] <CheGuevara> they only sponsor one dev
[20:04] <CheGuevara> look at the success of PclinuxOS
[20:05] <mhb> success?
[20:05] <mhb> I've seen a few ex-Ubuntu folks using it, but nothing more.
[20:05] <mhb> I don't see masses of Windows users migrating to it
[20:05] <CheGuevara> i've seen it beating ubuntu on distrowatch
[20:06] <CheGuevara> am not talking about windows vs linux really
[20:06] <CheGuevara> but gnome vs kde
[20:06] <CheGuevara> windows vs linux unfortunately doesn't depend entirely on DE
[20:07] <CheGuevara> or code at all for that fact
[20:09] <Lure_> now we are on lwn - no announcement needed anymore: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/263161/b6cd41ede0d8629f/
[20:09] <Lure_> ;-)
[20:09] <CheGuevara> nice...
[20:10] <nixternal> oh lord, and they quote me in it
[20:10] <CheGuevara> out of 1,479,105 visits on my site 1.27% is linux
[20:10] <CheGuevara> sucks...
[20:11] <nixternal> hahah
[20:11] <CheGuevara> at least need to beat mac
[20:11] <CheGuevara> 1.94%
[20:11] <CheGuevara> :P
[20:11] <mhb> nixternal: they had to, cause they quoted Jucato on news.com
[20:12] <mhb> quick! Write something about Kubuntu not being LTS to get in the news!
[20:12] <mhb> :o)
[20:12] <CheGuevara> :P
[20:12] <nixternal> but Jucato is far more famous than I am, he is damn near "mortal" compared to me :)
[20:12] <stdin> I knew there was a reason I didn't reply to those emails
[20:12] <CheGuevara> heh
[20:13] <nixternal> "...;and majority of our users follow our releases and typically upgrade on release day, the amount of noise created in the past about dist-upgrade breakage supports this."
[20:13] <nixternal> glad they got that one there in
[20:18] <dasKreech> ha ha :)
[20:18] <dasKreech> No side notes about upgrading on release day for Vista?
[20:20] <jpatrick> mhb: "if app A is better than app B" <- better is a point of view
[20:21] <dasKreech> made by the guy who packages!
[20:21]  * dasKreech nods
[20:21] <mhb> jpatrick: it most definitely is
[20:22] <mhb> jpatrick: the maintainer of the distro should decide which apps are "better" for his target audience
[20:22] <dasKreech> mhb: So. You are saying install debian?
[20:22] <mhb> jpatrick: but he shouldn't be limited by the fact that app A is KDE and app B is GNOME.
[20:22] <mhb> which says nothing about them
[20:22] <mhb> well, almost nothing
[20:23] <dasKreech> or xterm :)
[20:23] <mhb> dasKreech: I'm only saying that this whole desktop environment A, B and C brought us a lot of misery
[20:23] <dasKreech> mhb: Only at the start of their lives
[20:23] <dasKreech> I hardly think it's bad now
[20:23] <nixternal> holy smokes people in Chicago are thick
[20:24] <nixternal> wtf is so hard to understand that if it starts with a K, there is no damn LTS
[20:24] <jpatrick> mhb: it boils down to "why do I need a DE when I have a tty that does it all for me"
[20:24] <dasKreech> nixternal: tell them to eat less hot dogs
[20:24] <nixternal> dasKreech: mmm hot dogs
[20:24] <dasKreech> Like Kino?
[20:25] <mhb> jpatrick: well...
[20:25] <nixternal> jpatrick: use Emacs!
[20:25] <nixternal> be like Stallman, we don't need you anyways :p
[20:25] <mhb> jpatrick: it won't edit your images well
[20:25] <dasKreech> I do
[20:25] <mhb> poor jpatrick
[20:25] <nixternal> hehe
[20:25] <nixternal> let's get um!
[20:25] <dasKreech> it's a pain getting my SVG all nice in tty
[20:25] <jpatrick> heh
[20:25] <mhb> well I'm the one who's complain and he gets the wrong end of the pitchfork
[20:25] <nixternal> I can write a quick qtscript that will take those images and convert them into ascii art if that is what you need :)
[20:25] <dasKreech> But Matrix plays nicely :)
[20:26] <mhb> complaining
[20:26] <dasKreech> nixternal: oh please do
[20:26] <nixternal> dasKreech: learn to use imagemagick, I thought there was a flag you could use to do ascii art
[20:26] <nixternal> dunno with svg's though
[20:28] <mhb> I'm pretty unhappy about the current state of things. Great apps put aside because they're GNOME or KDE.
[20:28] <dasKreech> yeah I know but that's mostly KDE's fault
[20:29] <mhb> kaffeine is a 100% better than Totem, but thanks to this purism it's not good enough to be in Ubuntu
[20:29]  * mhb feels sorry for the devs
[20:29] <mhb> or k3b, that's a better example
[20:29] <mhb> I guess.
[20:30] <mhb> there's not a single criteria I can think of that makes anything GNOMish better than k3b.
[20:30] <nixternal> ya, I am not a huge fan of kaffeine
[20:30] <dasKreech> mhb: It has too many options
[20:31] <mhb> dasKreech: too many as in?
[20:31] <mhb> dasKreech: I'm pretty sure Nero has more
[20:31] <dasKreech> Which is also not a good Gnome app
[20:31] <mhb> and it's (probably) one of the most popular burning software
[20:31] <dasKreech> Gnomebaker is much better for a Gnome environment
[20:31] <mhb> yeah, but it's good enough for the simplest of users
[20:31] <nixternal> k3b has to many options? whoa, that is a first...k3b has just enough options, and all are explained well enough to the point you really don't have to research much
[20:32] <nixternal> omg, I just told dude that KDE 4 is in universe, so he is like "so all I have to do is add multiverse"
[20:32] <nixternal> I need to get out of Chicago
[20:33]  * dasKreech preps the spare room for nixternal
[20:35] <jpatrick> hmm, amarok would be a better example
[20:36] <nixternal> ya, amarok is pretty pimp and easy to use...there is some missing functionality though that could make it much better
[20:36] <nixternal> like autorecognition of portable media players and daapd servers
[20:39] <yuriy> it does autorecognize portamble media players doesn't it? or at least it autorecognizes usb sticks, which is kind of annoying
[20:41] <nixternal> oh ya it does, but you still have to config it don't you?
[20:42] <nixternal> it should be transparent, just like plugging in your iPod or what not in windows or osx
[20:42]  * nixternal needs some food
[20:43] <mhb> yeah...
[20:43] <mhb> too bad we have to spend time developing one media player for KDE, one for GNOME ...
[20:43] <mhb> I mean sure, it's great that there are several versions
[20:44] <mhb> but we need two people for including one feature in both
[20:44] <mhb> that means suddenly, there's a guy wanting to implement exactly that what nixternal described, but alas, he's an Ubuntist.
[20:51] <dasKreech> so just use xlibs
[20:52] <mhb> yeah, just use <insert some old-fashioned technology that nobody uses but it actually fulfills your needs here>
[21:00] <dasKreech> mhb: Wouldn't that solve your issues :)
[21:01] <ardchoille> Hmm.. personal package archive in LP sounds interesting
[21:01] <mhb> dasKreech: nope.
[21:01] <dasKreech> mhb: It takes the DE out of the equation and allows the best app to rise
[21:02] <mhb> ah, those were the times when people judged apps by their quality and free software developers worked together, not against the Other Evil Environment :o)
[21:08] <dasKreech> Who works against the OEE?
[21:08] <dasKreech> not the EED
[21:10] <mhb> dasKreech: aren't we all?
[21:10] <mhb> KDE is trying to beat GNOME and vice versa
[21:11] <mhb> the officials may say otherwise, but the truth is clear
[21:11] <dasKreech> mhb: that's true of all OSS projects
[21:12] <dasKreech> the economy of FOSS isn't money it's mindshare
[21:22] <mayeco> hey
[21:22] <mayeco> what happend with the tags thing in dolpin?
[21:36] <dasKreech> mayeco: What about it?
[21:37] <mayeco> dasKreech: is working or what?
[21:37] <yuriy> yay adept_manager built
[21:37] <mayeco> dasKreech: i recently build a fresh svn copy adn I dont see that
[21:39] <dasKreech> do you have nepomuk?
[21:43] <mayeco> dasKreech: yes
[21:43] <mayeco> nepomuk-rcgen
[21:44] <dasKreech> and started strigi?
[22:46] <yuriy> hmm CMake Error: ERROR: Could not find KDE4 kde4-config
[22:47] <jpatrick> yuriy: do you have the prefix=/usr/lib/kde4?
[22:50] <yuriy> jpatrick: i'm trying to port something and i'm using the rc2 packages from ppa. i added FIND_PACKAGE(KDE4 REQUIRED) to the cmake file. which prefix are you referring to?
[22:51] <jpatrick> yuriy: the one; cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/lib/kde4
[22:51] <yuriy> oic
[22:51] <jpatrick> that might work
[22:51] <yuriy> yep thanks
[22:51] <nixternal> $(DEB_CMAKE_PREFIX)
[22:52] <yuriy> nixternal: hmm? where would that go?
[22:52] <nixternal> -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX is now set in cdbs/kde.mk as long as you are merging in the new cdbs changes from debian
[22:52] <jpatrick> he's porting adept
[22:52] <jpatrick> (I think)
[22:53] <nixternal> yuriy: you want me to upload the updated debian/rules and debian/cdbs for you to use?
[22:53] <yuriy> heh or trying to... i'm still fairly certain i'll give up shortly into it
[22:53] <nixternal> since we are using them for all of our KDE4 packages now
[22:53] <yuriy> nixternal: sure
[22:53] <nixternal> k, one sec
[22:54] <mhb> yuriy: actually, you're not going to give up, you're going to finish it and have the sources ready by tomorrow morning!
[22:56] <nixternal> yuriy: http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~nixternal/KDE4/
[23:05] <yuriy> debian/cdbs/kde.mk:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk: No such file or directory
[23:05] <jpatrick> yuriy: install "cdbs"
[23:05] <yuriy> it's installed
[23:06] <yuriy> this is on gutsy btw
[23:06] <jpatrick> aha, install quilt
[23:06] <nixternal> ya
[23:07] <nixternal> also make sure your debian/*.install files are prefixed with usr/lib/kde4/ as well
[23:08]  * yuriy wasn't using the packaging stuff so far and just using cmake/make directly