=== StevenK_ is now known as StevenK [00:26] dave matthews band? [00:48] Has anybody considered updating tzdata for tomorrow's Argentinian changes? [00:50] * Hobbsee waves [00:50] Hey Hobbsee. [00:50] oh dear. libc6 stuff. [00:51] Where? [00:51] updates [00:52] Only in Dapper. [00:52] The Argentinian government gave a nice amount of warning. [00:53] ah yes, i think #d-d was whining about it earlier [00:53] Probably. [00:53] Even so, we should probably push out updates at some point... === LongPoin1yStick is now known as LongPointyStick === dasKreech_ is now known as dasKreech === stdin_ is now known as stdin [02:38] Hobbsee: libc6 is cuddly. [02:41] hey Jeff [02:41] you don't like to cuddle in bed with a copy of posix? [02:41] *lol* [02:41] azeem: When's that from? =) [02:41] last week I think [02:42] And, no. I created the susv3 package just so I didn't have to cuddle reference spec. They don't warm me up as well as a nice conversation with drepper does. [02:42] =) === Huahua is now known as Shely [02:54] jbailey: personally, i can think of way more cuddly things... [02:55] Hobbsee: Bah! [02:55] people, for eg, are far more cuddly [02:56] Heya Jeff, Hobbsee [02:56] Heya Barry [02:56] hiya bddebian [02:56] * Hobbsee heads off to murder a few more people [02:56] Hobbsee: Nice. Need a list? :) [02:57] Hobbsee: You might consider a new year's resolution to not do that anymore... [02:57] bddebian: the ones at work are more than enough [02:57] SCO [02:57] Wait [02:57] too late [02:57] jbailey: what, to quit work? [02:57] * dasKreech crosses them off the list [02:57] dasKreech: Be nice to SCOXQ.PK. They've provided years of entertainment. [02:58] More than that they provided a court treatment of Linux [02:58] Hobbsee: Ah, has murdering grown into a career now? [02:58] "yeah, please let me return something that i've deliberately damaged, and you now can't make pristine again. i paid good money for this" *stab* [02:58] truly valuable they were [02:58] jbailey: no, but christmas retail == grounds for murder. [02:58] at .. 72 cents per stock [02:58] Hobbsee: Ugh. Fair enough. [03:00] jbailey: i just need a dual-power cattle prod, and a lassoo. [03:00] Isn't that a taseR? [03:00] and maybe the work trapdoor to be built. [03:00] might be. but they seem to kill people [03:00] Or smithers [03:00] like, accidently [03:00] Release the hounds [03:01] "accidentally" [03:01] Sure. [03:01] "Don't tase me bro.." [03:01] ha ha [03:01] it's only when they repeatedly, deliberately, don't listen to what i say that they deserve to be tasered. [03:01] Sounds.. pandemic. [03:01] "listen to me, you idiot! i am between you and leaving this store, adn getting to other things. now PAY ATTENTION!!!" [03:02] jbailey: you see the merits of darwinism and survival of the fittest very well [03:02] Yeah. I just worry how often I'd be on the wrong side of that line defending myself though. [03:02] that there shoudl be max 6 people on the earth at any time? [03:02] jbailey: heh [03:02] * Hobbsee --> gone to the hellhole of christmas retail. [03:03] I should head home, too. [03:03] Happy NY all. =) [03:03] Happy belated? [03:03] Well, I meant the *next* New Year coming up. [03:03] But sure, for the previous one if you'd prefer. =) [03:05] Oh you [03:05] Ha I read that as New New York for some reason [03:05] Stupid Futurama movie [03:05] Anyway I was talking about Hobbsee going out to christmas [03:21] hello === dmb_ is now known as dmb === tritium_ is now known as tritium === blueyed_ is now known as blueyed === bigon is now known as bigon` === fabbione is now known as thegotfather === thegotfather is now known as thegodfather [06:38] will ubuntu always use apt? [06:39] i thought i remember in the past hearing something about the dropping of it, I could be wrong though [06:39] dmb: Eh? for what? [06:39] package management [06:39] Duh I meant drop it in favour of what [06:40] not sure, just thought i remember reading about it somewhere [06:40] i'll see if i can find it again [06:40] it was a long time ago [06:40] Might have been killed then? [06:41] cause it would have been interesting to apt-get dist-upgrade and have it remove apt-get as part of the upgrade [06:41] actually now I wanna see it happen :) [06:41] that would be pretty cool :D [06:42] Not as much as I wanna see LTS->LTS [06:42] but I guess I won't get that chance :-( [06:43] what do you mean? [06:43] Which part did I lose you at? [06:44] LTS->LTS [06:47] Well if you offer a Long Term support contract to someone and they take you up on it they are going to ride it out as long as they can [06:48] and presumably then will only upgrade into another long term stable situation [06:49] since stability and reliabilty are more important than new things and features [06:49] oh [06:49] so if someone is on a LTS release then they will only dist-upgrade into another LTS release [06:49] so for Hardy you have to be able to upgrade from Gutsy AND Dapper [06:50] Think of all the stuff that has changed since Dapper and you will see why this should be quite fun :) [06:50] ohhh, i see what your saying [06:51] dasKreech: will it work at all if you change the repos to hardy and dist-upgrade? [06:51] dmb: from ? [06:51] dapper [06:51] That's the point it should [06:52] we have never done an upgrade from older than 6 months [06:52] so i guess it doesn't :( [06:52] i wonder what would go wrong? [06:52] now we have to do one from 24 months [06:52] Think of it [06:52] if you have done that [06:52] then it can go wrong :) [06:52] After the first one it will get boring probably [06:52] dmb, dasKreech: no guarantees - Hardy is *not* an LTS release (hardy+1 may be), so no guarantees [06:53] timfrost: Sorry? [06:53] oh, i thought hardy was a lts? [06:53] when was that announced? [06:54] this is news to me [06:55] as am I [06:55] the specific line I recall is that while the main and gnome packages would be covered by LTS the KDE packages would not [06:56] Which speaks to me as saying that it IS an LTS [06:57] dmb, dasKreech: just checked the archives, and I was wrong - the announcement of Hardy by Steve Langasek in October does mention 'Ubuntu 8.04 LTS' [06:57] ok [06:57] * dasKreech nods [06:57] scared me for a second :D [06:57] Right so that's what I'm waiting for [06:58] dmb: Tell me about it! there goes ALL my entertainment [06:58] dmb, dasKreech: which means that it should support direct upgrade from either dapper (LTS-LTS) or gutsy [06:58] interesting... [06:59] Exactly which I think is going to be good enough to get out a tub of popcorn for [07:12] * dasKreech goes to bed [07:43] am I the only one who ever remembers reading on the the dropping of apt? [07:46] dmb: huh? [07:46] where did you read that? [07:47] i think i'm just out of my mind, but i remember a couple releases back on the ubuntuforums under the development section [07:50] dmb: There was discussion about the upgrade interface (command line dist-upgrade vs update-manager etc) is that what you are thinking of? [07:50] don't think so... [07:50] i'm going to use archive.org to see if i can find it [07:53] I think you mean people saying to use aptitude instead of apt [07:54] Personally I think they're full of crap, aptitude is too hard to use [07:54] and i've seen it cause more trouble than a lot of people want to deal with [07:55] i personally find it easier to use command line apt then aptitude [07:57] dmb, i do recall seeing something similar being spread on the forums for a bit too though [07:57] i don't think it was about aptitude vs apt though [07:57] maybe i just dreamed this :D [07:58] Amaranth: actually, i think your right [07:58] i was stupid back then [07:58] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=190187 [07:59] superm1: Some debian documentation says to use aptitude over apt [07:59] particularly http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=205766 [07:59] i remember pointed it at http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/aptitude [07:59] superm1: I think it just means for upgrades but others disagree so they push for you to use aptitude everywhere [08:00] Last time I tried to use aptitude on a problem apt couldn't fix it wanted to remove a bunch of stuff and I think it talked about downgrading a couple things too [08:01] aptitudes ui is crap [08:02] didn't even know that you can interface with a mouse with ncurses [08:02] superm1: that psychocats website is of course completely wrong now that we have apt-get autoremove :) [08:02] exactly [08:03] but that was the only selling point to aptitude that i ever saw [08:16] is there a difference in installing files into /etc/modprobe.d and /etc/modutils? [08:16] it appears more modern apps are installign into /etc/modprobe.d [08:18] modprobe.d is for newer kernels i would suspect using module-init-tools? === luka74 is now known as Lure === Shely is now known as iRepresentation === blueyed_ is now known as blueyed === stu1 is now known as stub [10:42] dmb: was probaly the possible switching from apt to smart, i expect [10:42] dmb: along with a whole bunch of other infrastructure change [10:52] Hobbsee: We have switched to smart? [10:52] TheMuso: no, hence it was the possible switching [10:52] TheMuso: it was discussed a few releases ago [10:53] Hobbsee: Ah ok. [10:53] TheMuso: no more source packages, etc [10:53] Sorta came in half way through the conversation. [10:53] TheMuso: i read backscroll, and gave that answer. not hard to do [10:54] Hobbsee: True. [10:54] Ah yes. [10:54] * TheMuso finally locates the relevant piece of text. === Traxer is now known as Traxer|on === Traxer|on is now known as Traxer === \sh_away is now known as \sh === Traxer is now known as Traxer|on === Traxer|on is now known as Traxer === asac_ is now known as asac === bigon` is now known as bigon [14:54] hey there =) [14:55] nobody there ? 'got a question to ask : does anyone encouter problems with X and a ATI card ? I've got a mobility radeo 9600 and X freezes if I use ati or fglrx ... i'ven't found any trick to fix this ... [14:57] tak2: You might try searching for an existing bug from https://bugs,launchpad.net/ubuntu/, or asking on #ubuntu-bugs to talk about bugs. If you're looking for a workaround, you'd do best on #ubuntu or #ubuntu-xx eith -xx as your country code (or #ubuntu+1 for hardy), or submitting your query to https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ [14:57] s/eith/with/ [14:58] ok thanks persia I'll try this, thanks :) [15:10] Hi pitti [15:10] hey geser, how are you? [15:11] good, and you? [15:18] pretty fine, we are preparing my wife's bday party === \sh is now known as \sh_away [16:00] ping pitti === Skiessl is now known as Skiessi === Sepheebear_ is now known as Sepheebear === dasKreech_ is now known as dasKreech [17:28] Wouldn't compile-time substitution of preprocessor definitions slow down the compilation process? [17:29] um, yes? [17:29] as opposed to what? [17:29] having constant variables instead of preprocessor definitions [17:30] that has other drawbacks [17:30] the compiler can't optimize them as well [17:30] ok [17:30] lol [17:49] what happens if udevd is killed and restarted? does it process events for all existing devices again? or is that only done when udevtrigger is run in the boot scripts? === dmb_ is now known as dmb === nicolai_ is now known as Kopfgeldjaeger === nicolai__ is now known as Kopfgeldjaeger === \sh_away is now known as \sh === \sh is now known as \sh_away [21:44] hey, is there anyone here that works on the psubuntu? === tab is now known as killux [22:00] so, what do i install to get the X includes? [22:01] for a package, or just header file? [22:02] Initially I was looking for a pkg w/ add/remove software, now I've got synaptic open [22:03] I've seen a few things on the forums to load so I'm working on that === DSDASD is now known as Kopfgeldjaeger [22:03] but a definitive answer would be useful [22:26] are there any main sponsers around? [22:28] hi, who can i talk to about the development of the ubuntu minimal cd? === Kmos_ is now known as Kmos === nicolai_ is now known as Kopfgeldjaeger