[00:26] <dasKreech> dave matthews band?
[00:48] <Fujitsu> Has anybody considered updating tzdata for tomorrow's Argentinian changes?
[00:50]  * Hobbsee waves
[00:50] <Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee.
[00:50] <Hobbsee> oh dear.  libc6 stuff.
[00:51] <Fujitsu> Where?
[00:51] <Hobbsee> updates
[00:52] <Fujitsu> Only in Dapper.
[00:52] <Fujitsu> The Argentinian government gave a nice amount of warning.
[00:53] <Hobbsee> ah yes, i think #d-d was whining about it earlier
[00:53] <Fujitsu> Probably.
[00:53] <Fujitsu> Even so, we should probably push out updates at some point...
[02:38] <jbailey> Hobbsee: libc6 is cuddly.
[02:41] <azeem> hey Jeff
 you don't like to cuddle in bed with a copy of posix?
[02:41] <jbailey> *lol*
[02:41] <jbailey> azeem: When's that from? =)
[02:41] <azeem> last week I think
[02:42] <jbailey> And, no.  I created the susv3 package just so I didn't have to cuddle reference spec.  They don't warm me up as well as a nice conversation with drepper does.
[02:42] <jbailey> =)
[02:54] <Hobbsee> jbailey: personally, i can think of way more cuddly things...
[02:55] <jbailey> Hobbsee: Bah!
[02:55] <Hobbsee> people, for eg, are far more cuddly
[02:56] <bddebian> Heya Jeff, Hobbsee
[02:56] <jbailey> Heya Barry
[02:56] <Hobbsee> hiya bddebian
[02:56]  * Hobbsee heads off to murder a few more people
[02:56] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Nice.  Need a list? :)
[02:57] <jbailey> Hobbsee: You might consider a new year's resolution to not do that anymore...
[02:57] <Hobbsee> bddebian: the ones at work are more than enough
[02:57] <dasKreech> SCO
[02:57] <dasKreech> Wait
[02:57] <dasKreech> too late
[02:57] <Hobbsee> jbailey: what, to quit work?
[02:57]  * dasKreech crosses them off the list
[02:57] <jbailey> dasKreech: Be nice to SCOXQ.PK.  They've provided years of entertainment.
[02:58] <dasKreech> More than that they provided a court treatment of Linux
[02:58] <jbailey> Hobbsee: Ah, has murdering grown into a career now?
[02:58] <Hobbsee> "yeah, please let me return something that i've deliberately damaged, and you now can't make pristine again.  i paid good money for this"  *stab*
[02:58] <dasKreech> truly valuable they were
[02:58] <Hobbsee> jbailey: no, but christmas retail == grounds for murder.
[02:58] <dasKreech> at .. 72 cents per stock
[02:58] <jbailey> Hobbsee: Ugh.  Fair enough.
[03:00] <Hobbsee> jbailey: i just need a dual-power cattle prod, and a lassoo.
[03:00] <jbailey> Isn't that a taseR?
[03:00] <Hobbsee> and maybe the work trapdoor to be built.
[03:00] <Hobbsee> might be.  but they seem to kill people
[03:00] <dasKreech> Or smithers
[03:00] <Hobbsee> like, accidently
[03:00] <dasKreech> Release the hounds
[03:01] <jbailey> "accidentally"
[03:01] <jbailey> Sure.
[03:01] <bddebian> "Don't tase me bro.."
[03:01] <dasKreech> ha ha
[03:01] <Hobbsee> it's only when they repeatedly, deliberately, don't listen to what i say that they deserve to be tasered.
[03:01] <jbailey> Sounds.. pandemic.
[03:01] <Hobbsee> "listen to me, you idiot!  i am between you and leaving this store, adn getting to other things.  now PAY ATTENTION!!!"
[03:02] <Hobbsee> jbailey: you see the merits of darwinism and survival of the fittest very well
[03:02] <jbailey> Yeah.  I just worry how often I'd be on the wrong side of that line defending myself though.
[03:02] <dasKreech> that there shoudl be max 6 people on the earth at any time?
[03:02] <Hobbsee> jbailey: heh
[03:02]  * Hobbsee --> gone to the hellhole of christmas retail.
[03:03] <jbailey> I should head home, too.
[03:03] <jbailey> Happy NY all. =)
[03:03] <dasKreech> Happy belated?
[03:03] <jbailey> Well, I meant the *next* New Year coming up.
[03:03] <jbailey> But sure, for the previous one if you'd prefer. =)
[03:05] <dasKreech> Oh you
[03:05] <dasKreech> Ha I read that as New New York for some reason
[03:05] <dasKreech> Stupid Futurama movie
[03:05] <dasKreech> Anyway I was talking about Hobbsee going out to christmas
[03:21] <Forbr4d3> hello
[06:38] <dmb> will ubuntu always use apt?
[06:39] <dmb> i thought i remember in the past hearing something about the dropping of it, I could be wrong though
[06:39] <dasKreech> dmb: Eh?  for what?
[06:39] <dmb> package management
[06:39] <dasKreech> Duh I meant drop it in favour of what
[06:40] <dmb> not sure, just thought i remember reading about it somewhere
[06:40] <dmb> i'll see if i can find it again
[06:40] <dmb> it was a long time ago
[06:40] <dasKreech> Might have been killed then?
[06:41] <dasKreech> cause it would have been interesting to apt-get dist-upgrade and have it remove apt-get as part of the upgrade
[06:41] <dasKreech> actually now I wanna see it happen :)
[06:41] <dmb> that would be pretty cool :D
[06:42] <dasKreech> Not as much as I wanna see LTS->LTS
[06:42] <dasKreech> but I guess I won't get that chance :-(
[06:43] <dmb> what do you mean?
[06:43] <dasKreech> Which part did I lose you at?
[06:44] <dmb> LTS->LTS
[06:47] <dasKreech> Well if you offer a Long Term support contract to someone and they take you up on it they are going to ride it out as long as they can
[06:48] <dasKreech>  and presumably then will only upgrade into another long term stable situation
[06:49] <dasKreech> since stability and reliabilty are more important than new things and features
[06:49] <dmb> oh
[06:49] <dasKreech> so if someone is on a LTS release then they will only dist-upgrade into another LTS release
[06:49] <dasKreech> so for Hardy you have to be able to upgrade from Gutsy AND Dapper
[06:50] <dasKreech> Think of all the stuff that has changed since Dapper and you will see why this should be quite fun :)
[06:50] <dmb> ohhh, i see what your saying
[06:51] <dmb> dasKreech: will it work at all if you change the repos to hardy and dist-upgrade?
[06:51] <dasKreech> dmb: from ?
[06:51] <dmb> dapper
[06:51] <dasKreech> That's the point it should
[06:52] <dasKreech> we have never done an upgrade from older than 6 months
[06:52] <dmb> so i guess it doesn't :(
[06:52] <dmb> i wonder what would go wrong?
[06:52] <dasKreech> now we have to do one from 24 months
[06:52] <dasKreech> Think of it
[06:52] <dasKreech> if you have done that
[06:52] <dasKreech>  then it can go wrong :)
[06:52] <dasKreech> After the first one it will get boring probably
[06:52] <timfrost> dmb, dasKreech: no guarantees - Hardy is *not* an LTS release (hardy+1 may be), so no guarantees
[06:53] <dasKreech> timfrost: Sorry?
[06:53] <dmb> oh, i thought hardy was a lts?
[06:53] <dasKreech> when was that announced?
[06:54] <dmb> this is news to me
[06:55] <dasKreech> as am I
[06:55] <dasKreech> the specific line I recall is that while the main and gnome packages would be covered by LTS the KDE packages would not
[06:56] <dasKreech> Which speaks to me as saying that it IS an LTS
[06:57] <timfrost> dmb, dasKreech: just checked the archives, and I was wrong - the announcement of Hardy by Steve Langasek in October does mention 'Ubuntu 8.04 LTS'
[06:57] <dmb> ok
[06:57]  * dasKreech nods
[06:57] <dmb> scared me for a second :D
[06:57] <dasKreech> Right so that's what I'm waiting for
[06:58] <dasKreech> dmb: Tell me about it! there goes ALL my entertainment
[06:58] <timfrost> dmb, dasKreech: which means that it should support direct upgrade from either dapper (LTS-LTS) or gutsy
[06:58] <dmb> interesting...
[06:59] <dasKreech> Exactly which I think is going to be good enough to get out a tub of popcorn for
[07:12]  * dasKreech goes to bed
[07:43] <dmb> am I the only one who ever remembers reading on the the dropping of apt?
[07:46] <Burgundavia> dmb: huh?
[07:46] <Burgundavia> where did you read that?
[07:47] <dmb> i think i'm just out of my mind, but i remember a couple releases back on the ubuntuforums under the development section
[07:50] <timfrost> dmb: There was discussion about the upgrade interface (command line dist-upgrade vs update-manager etc) is that what you are thinking of?
[07:50] <dmb> don't think so...
[07:50] <dmb> i'm going to use archive.org to see if i can find it
[07:53] <Amaranth> I think you mean people saying to use aptitude instead of apt
[07:54] <Amaranth> Personally I think they're full of crap, aptitude is too hard to use
[07:54] <superm1> and i've seen it cause more trouble than a lot of people want to deal with
[07:55] <dmb> i personally find it easier to use command line apt then aptitude
[07:57] <superm1> dmb, i do recall seeing something similar being spread on the forums for a bit too though
[07:57] <dmb> i don't think it was about aptitude vs apt though
[07:57] <dmb> maybe i just dreamed this :D
[07:58] <dmb> Amaranth: actually, i think your right
[07:58] <dmb> i was stupid back then
[07:58] <dmb> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=190187
[07:59] <Amaranth> superm1: Some debian documentation says to use aptitude over apt
[07:59] <superm1> particularly http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=205766
[07:59] <superm1> i remember pointed it at http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/aptitude
[07:59] <Amaranth> superm1: I think it just means for upgrades but others disagree so they push for you to use aptitude everywhere
[08:00] <Amaranth> Last time I tried to use aptitude on a problem apt couldn't fix it wanted to remove a bunch of stuff and I think it talked about downgrading a couple things too
[08:01] <dmb> aptitudes ui is crap
[08:02] <dmb> didn't even know that you can interface with a mouse with ncurses
[08:02] <Amaranth> superm1: that psychocats website is of course completely wrong now that we have apt-get autoremove :)
[08:02] <superm1> exactly
[08:03] <superm1> but that was the only selling point to aptitude that i ever saw
[08:16] <superm1> is there a difference in installing files into /etc/modprobe.d and /etc/modutils?
[08:16] <superm1> it appears more modern apps are installign into /etc/modprobe.d
[08:18] <superm1> modprobe.d is for newer kernels i would suspect using module-init-tools?
[10:42] <Hobbsee> dmb: was probaly the possible switching from apt to smart, i expect
[10:42] <Hobbsee> dmb: along with a whole bunch of other infrastructure change
[10:52] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: We have switched to smart?
[10:52] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: no, hence it was the possible switching
[10:52] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: it was discussed a few releases ago
[10:53] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: Ah ok.
[10:53] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: no more source packages, etc
[10:53] <TheMuso> Sorta came in half way through the conversation.
[10:53] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: i read backscroll, and gave that answer.  not hard to do
[10:54] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: True.
[10:54] <TheMuso> Ah yes.
[10:54]  * TheMuso finally locates the relevant piece of text.
[14:54] <tak2> hey there =)
[14:55] <tak2> nobody there ? 'got a question to ask : does anyone encouter problems with X and a ATI card ? I've got a mobility radeo 9600 and X freezes if I use ati or fglrx ... i'ven't found any trick to fix this ...
[14:57] <persia> tak2: You might try searching for an existing bug from https://bugs,launchpad.net/ubuntu/, or asking on #ubuntu-bugs to talk about bugs.  If you're looking for a workaround, you'd do best on #ubuntu or #ubuntu-xx eith -xx as your country code (or #ubuntu+1 for hardy), or submitting your query to https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
[14:57] <persia> s/eith/with/
[14:58] <tak2> ok thanks persia I'll try this, thanks :)
[15:10] <geser> Hi pitti
[15:10] <pitti> hey geser, how are you?
[15:11] <geser> good, and you?
[15:18] <pitti> pretty fine, we are preparing my wife's bday party
[16:00] <CheGuevara> ping pitti
[17:28] <theunixgeek> Wouldn't compile-time substitution of preprocessor definitions slow down the compilation process?
[17:29] <mjj29> um, yes?
[17:29] <mjj29> as opposed to what?
[17:29] <theunixgeek> having constant variables instead of preprocessor definitions
[17:30] <mjj29> that has other drawbacks
[17:30] <mjj29> the compiler can't optimize them as well
[17:30] <theunixgeek> ok
[17:30] <CheGuevara> lol
[17:49] <psusi> what happens if udevd is killed and restarted?  does it process events  for all existing devices again? or is that only done when udevtrigger is run in the boot scripts?
[21:44] <tab> hey, is there anyone here that works on the psubuntu?
[22:00] <alazar> so, what do i install to get the X includes?
[22:01] <jpatrick> for a package, or just header file?
[22:02] <alazar> Initially I was looking for a pkg w/ add/remove software, now I've got synaptic open
[22:03] <alazar> I've seen a few things on the forums to load so I'm working on that
[22:03] <alazar> but a definitive answer would be useful
[22:26] <jpatrick> are there any main sponsers around?
[22:28] <ajmorris> hi, who can i talk to about the development of the ubuntu minimal cd?