| LjL | ~sigh | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ubot3 | Factoid sigh not found | 00:00 |
| ompaul | LjL, the joke is dead, long live the joke | 00:01 |
| ompaul | today is walk like a penguin day kinda | 00:01 |
| LjL | !joke | 00:01 |
| ubotu | I'm alive! | 00:01 |
| nalioth | ardchoille: forgive my brain, i can't keep up sometimes | 00:02 |
| ardchoille | No problem :) | 00:02 |
| === LongPoin1yStick is now known as LongPointyStick | ||
| LjL | wii, i'm not in the mood really, go away | 01:28 |
| Madpilot | ??? | 01:31 |
| PriceChild | Madpilot, the person who just joined is more commonly known as wii | 01:31 |
| Hobbsee | and is not getting unbanned, no matter what he says. | 01:33 |
| Madpilot | ah, one of those. | 01:34 |
| stdin | hmm, he is in #ubuntu | 01:44 |
| Hobbsee | gone. | 01:47 |
| stdin | only problem with a host ban is he has a dynamic IP, only static part is AMarigot*.abo.wanadoo.fr | 01:50 |
| Hobbsee | yup | 01:51 |
| Hobbsee | that's how he got in anyway | 01:51 |
| LjL | yeah who cares | 01:51 |
| Madpilot | we could ban the entire IP range, but that's... extreme | 01:52 |
| Madpilot | or just ban *!*@*.fr | 01:52 |
| Madpilot | :) | 01:52 |
| ardchoille | Was he originally banned n #ubuntu and now he's back because of a dynamic IP? | 01:52 |
| Hobbsee | yes | 01:52 |
| ardchoille | Coudln't that be seen as ban evasion? | 01:53 |
| Madpilot | and he's evidently nick-hopping as well. Meh. | 01:53 |
| stdin | well, he was originally banned in #k then everywhere else too | 01:53 |
| LjL | he's an old troll. don't worry about him. | 01:53 |
| === stdin_ is now known as stdin | ||
| ubotu | FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) | 03:11 |
| euskadi | hi | 03:14 |
| euskadi | got a question, i'd like to know how can I simulate a webcam on ubuntu to use msn messenger and send a video instead of a real webcam ? | 03:15 |
| disasterpiece | hmm | 03:15 |
| disasterpiece | need to be tested? | 03:15 |
| euskadi | ? what do you mean by tested | 03:16 |
| elkbuntu | euskadi, this isnt a support channel | 03:16 |
| euskadi | this is a channel for what ? | 03:16 |
| elkbuntu | euskadi, this is a communication channel for operators | 03:17 |
| euskadi | why when i write : /j #ubuntu | 03:17 |
| euskadi | im in #ubuntu-ops | 03:17 |
| pleia2 | euskadi: you'e been redirected here because of your ident, it's not acceptable in #ubuntu | 03:17 |
| disasterpiece | i see | 03:17 |
| pleia2 | change it and reconnect | 03:17 |
| disasterpiece | what shall i change it to? | 03:17 |
| pleia2 | disasterpiece: not you :) | 03:17 |
| disasterpiece | ok | 03:18 |
| disasterpiece | i've been directed here too | 03:18 |
| johnficca | I can't get onto #ubuntu | 03:18 |
| disasterpiece | saying my router has a bug | 03:18 |
| pleia2 | disasterpiece: someone needs to test you and let you back in, I can't, sorry | 03:18 |
| johnficca | yeah me too | 03:18 |
| disasterpiece | ok | 03:18 |
| elkbuntu | disasterpiece, johnficca, did you read the topic and follow the instructions? | 03:18 |
| johnficca | yes | 03:18 |
| disasterpiece | sure did | 03:18 |
| johnficca | I changed my port | 03:18 |
| disasterpiece | as did i | 03:19 |
| elkbuntu | then you need to wait for someone to test your connection | 03:19 |
| disasterpiece | ok | 03:19 |
| johnficca | ok then | 03:19 |
| disasterpiece | i | 03:19 |
| disasterpiece | what's the usual wait-time, if i may ask :P | 03:19 |
| johnficca | test me oh mighty testers | 03:20 |
| euskadi | no one answer me in #ubuntu | 03:20 |
| euskadi | :-( | 03:20 |
| elkbuntu | euskadi, you need to have patience. this is not a support channel | 03:21 |
| elkbuntu | ie, you need to wait more than 60 seconds before giving up | 03:22 |
| disasterpiece | site says an op needs to test you. seeing as there are none here, i'm guessing it might be a while :) | 03:22 |
| elkbuntu | disasterpiece, i am an op, but i cannot remember all the strings | 03:22 |
| disasterpiece | ahhhh ok | 03:22 |
| disasterpiece | well i'll just chill here then | 03:22 |
| disasterpiece | :) | 03:23 |
| Madpilot | disasterpiece, DCC test? | 03:24 |
| elkbuntu | Madpilot, him and johnficca | 03:25 |
| johnficca | yes please | 03:25 |
| Madpilot | elkbuntu, you remember if it's safe to do that here? At one point there was a fanged script running | 03:26 |
| elkbuntu | Madpilot, the fanged script is no more, but you can PM them | 03:26 |
| stdin | it's best to /ctcp and /msg it | 03:27 |
| elkbuntu | stdin, i think he wanted to test both at once ;) | 03:27 |
| Madpilot | well, that didn't knock either of you off, so all seems good | 03:27 |
| stdin | I'm not sure if nal.oth has his auto-kline thing going | 03:28 |
| elkbuntu | he does not | 03:28 |
| Madpilot | DCC SEND 1234556778899876543222 | 03:28 |
| elkbuntu | maybe he does | 03:28 |
| stdin | guess he dies | 03:28 |
| stdin | erm does .. | 03:29 |
| elkbuntu | i thought he didnt :-/ | 03:29 |
| elkbuntu | nalioth, i thought you killed that thing!!! | 03:29 |
| stdin | not server-wide, but for the channels he's in | 03:29 |
| disasterpiece | oops | 03:29 |
| disasterpiece | i went afk | 03:29 |
| disasterpiece | he left ;( | 03:29 |
| elkbuntu | disasterpiece, he got burned for testing you in the open | 03:29 |
| stdin | note to nalioth: please un-kline Madpilot :) | 03:30 |
| disasterpiece | oh ok | 03:30 |
| disasterpiece | so just wait? :{ | 03:30 |
| stdin | you've been tested, so if there's in #ubuntu op they can unban you | 03:30 |
| elkbuntu | rob, ping ping ping? | 03:31 |
| disasterpiece | how do i know if i passed the test? | 03:31 |
| elkbuntu | disasterpiece, you're still connected | 03:31 |
| disasterpiece | ah | 03:31 |
| disasterpiece | cool | 03:31 |
| disasterpiece | so just wait for the unban then? | 03:31 |
| stdin | it's a manual process, give it a sec | 03:32 |
| disasterpiece | no problem | 03:32 |
| elkbuntu | unbanned | 03:32 |
| disasterpiece | awesome | 03:32 |
| disasterpiece | thanks man | 03:32 |
| disasterpiece | er | 03:33 |
| disasterpiece | mam :) | 03:33 |
| elkbuntu | :) | 03:33 |
| * stdin looks at the email sitting in his "ubuntu-irc" folder | 03:34 | |
| * Pici snickers | 03:45 | |
| elkbuntu | hmm, is it just me or is the ubuntu pastebin the only one up atm? | 04:13 |
| elkbuntu | well, out of it, .com and .ca | 04:14 |
| stdin | .com has been down for ages afaik | 04:14 |
| elkbuntu | right, .ca is timing out for me | 04:15 |
| ardchoille | pastebin.us and pastebin.ca work | 04:17 |
| ardchoille | Whoa, I hadn't realised pastebin.com was ooc | 04:17 |
| elkbuntu | ardchoille, yeah, i know. i was going to go steal the source | 04:18 |
| ardchoille | Gotta move my router. Going to knock out a wall and make this room bigger. Back soon :) | 04:43 |
| ubotu | nickrud called the ops in #ubuntu () | 04:50 |
| === tritium_ is now known as tritium | ||
| ubotu | In #kubuntu, jameswf-home said: ubotu: beer is good | 05:36 |
| * Madpilot mutters something unprintable about autokill scripts... | 06:59 | |
| ardchoille | What should I do about n=Scotty@unaffiliated/scotty in #kubuntu? He keeps leaving and entering. Grnted it isn't his fault (Connection reset by peer) and I have tried several times to pm him and there's been no reply. | 07:00 |
| tonyyarusso | Madpilot: any news on web site stuff yet? | 07:02 |
| Madpilot | tonyyarusso, for Ubuntu Canada? Not a word. | 07:03 |
| tonyyarusso | elmo lies. | 07:03 |
| tonyyarusso | That's TWICE now that he's promised me he'd look into it the next day | 07:03 |
| Madpilot | orginal email was set to rt on Oct 4th or so, I fired off a "what's going on?' note in early/mid November. Nada, nothing and zip in reply. | 07:04 |
| * tonyyarusso sighs | 07:10 | |
| nalioth | ardchoille: banforward any disruptive machine fault folks to ##fix_your_connection | 07:11 |
| nalioth | ardchoille: please be sure they are very disruptive | 07:11 |
| ardchoille | nalioth: Thank you. But, I'm not sure I'd call what he is doing "very disruptive". I was just curious of the proper way to handle it. I'll keep your advice in mind for future reference, though. | 07:12 |
| tonyyarusso | nalioth: What sort of folks are usually the ones to provide servers for Freenode? How would one go about approaching an organization to see if they might be interested? | 07:13 |
| nalioth | tonyyarusso: stability | 07:14 |
| tonyyarusso | I was considering the University of Minnesota. They already have an Ubuntu mirror, so seem a likely candidate. | 07:16 |
| tonyyarusso | nalioth: On an unrelated note, what is the current recommended way of securing IRC traffic, if possible? Obviously when I talk in #ubuntu it's public and logged, but what about messages I send with destinations of PMs or invite-only channels? Can I encrypt those? | 07:22 |
| nalioth | tonyyarusso: nope | 07:25 |
| nalioth | once your data leaves the tor node, it's all public | 07:25 |
| nalioth | well, it's publically sniffable | 07:26 |
| tonyyarusso | gotcha | 07:26 |
| Amaranth | tor give you anonymity, not privacy | 07:32 |
| tonyyarusso | I was basically wondering if there was anything kind of like OTR for IRc. | 07:34 |
| nalioth | OTR ? | 07:36 |
| Amaranth | Off The Record | 07:37 |
| Amaranth | it uses gpg to encrypt the conversation | 07:37 |
| Amaranth | of course both sides need to have the pidgin plugin installed | 07:37 |
| ubotu | FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) | 07:37 |
| ubotu | FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) | 07:37 |
| ubotu | FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) | 07:37 |
| Amaranth | ah, so nice having n.alioth and the bots handle that automagically | 07:38 |
| Amaranth | --- FloodBot2 removes channel operator status from FloodBot3 | 07:39 |
| Amaranth | LjL: ^ | 07:39 |
| Amaranth | FloodBot3 didn't have op, I think it was trying to remove itself | 07:40 |
| tonyyarusso | Amaranth: It's not GPG, actually. | 07:40 |
| Amaranth | tonyyarusso: oh? what is it? | 07:40 |
| tonyyarusso | Amaranth: some other algorithm thingy. Why it doesn't use GPG for the long-term key I don't know, but the heavy lifting is done by a short term key, so that you can't prove after that fact that the conversation was by a particular person (unlike GPG) | 07:41 |
| Myrtti | silc? | 07:41 |
| tonyyarusso | If you have 45 minutes to kill, there's a video about it | 07:43 |
| * tonyyarusso fetches link | 07:44 | |
| Amaranth | Good, I was looking for something to put me to sleep | 07:46 |
| Amaranth | Working on this DOM wrapper around GMarkup sure isn't doing it | 07:47 |
| tonyyarusso | http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/media/Off-the-Record%20Messaging:%20Useful%20Security%20and%20Privacy%20for%20IM / http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/files/ian-goldberg-otr.ogg.torrent / http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/files/ian-goldberg-otr.ogg | 07:47 |
| tonyyarusso | Sadly, you can't actually see what he writes on the whiteboard, so you get just as much usable content from an audio-only version that would be like 1/10 the download size. | 07:48 |
| tonyyarusso | I have an audio rip around somewhere I think... | 07:48 |
| Amaranth | eh, it's already half done downloading | 07:49 |
| tonyyarusso | Ye of fast connections :P | 07:50 |
| tonyyarusso | I found it though | 07:50 |
| tonyyarusso | 66 MB .ogg, or a 57 MB .mp3 | 07:51 |
| tonyyarusso | instead of the 463 MB video | 07:51 |
| Amaranth | who needs audio when you have 12mbit cable? :P | 07:52 |
| * tonyyarusso doesn't know his connection speed | 07:53 | |
| Myrtti | Amaranth: shuddup | 07:55 |
| tonyyarusso | 15.6 Mbit, according to speedtest.net | 07:55 |
| tonyyarusso | Yay middle of the night connections | 07:55 |
| Myrtti | shuddup allowya | 07:56 |
| tonyyarusso | upload is lame though - 700 kbit, and this is pretty much the fastest time | 07:56 |
| Myrtti | hrmph | 07:57 |
| Amaranth | tonyyarusso: dang i've got 12mbit/512kbit | 08:03 |
| Amaranth | I'd go down to 6mbit down if I could get even 1mbit up | 08:03 |
| * tonyyarusso wishes things were more symmetric; doesn't understand why they're not | 08:04 | |
| Myrtti | hrrrhhmmp | 08:05 |
| nalioth | symmetry is expensive | 08:05 |
| tonyyarusso | how come? | 08:05 |
| Amaranth | Because they know they can charge you for it :P | 08:07 |
| tonyyarusso | what's the technical reason? | 08:10 |
| nalioth | they don't want to install double the wire, just so you can have symmetry | 08:11 |
| tonyyarusso | But if I'm not downloading anything, there's a wire sitting there not being used, so why can't it be used for upload instead? | 08:12 |
| tonyyarusso | AFAIK all modern network media supports full duplex, no? | 08:12 |
| ompaul | tonyyarusso, xdsl kit costs them a lot more and upstream costs them a lot more because of the methods used to interconnect carriers | 08:12 |
| Amaranth | I know with cable it's just because they allocate more of the 'channels' or whatever for download than upload | 08:12 |
| tonyyarusso | Amaranth: hmm...that's annoying | 08:13 |
| ompaul | again it is because of the cost at interconnect to other carrier levels that they come up with this method of dealing with it | 08:18 |
| ompaul | I remember in mid 90s reading telco addressed technical mags and they were on about hdsl and that never really saw the light of day as it would have killed the isdn business | 08:19 |
| JimmyDee | ok so what did I say that was incorrect? | 08:46 |
| * JimmyDee is feisty feisty feisty | 08:47 | |
| ompaul | JimmyDee, that was politics | 08:48 |
| Myrtti | You've been knowingly tiptoeing on the edge of o4o looooooooong time | 08:48 |
| ompaul | is there anything else? | 08:48 |
| JimmyDee | I am terribly sorry but the truth of the matter is thats not a religion discussion its a wartime doctrine discussion, and not racially or religiously motivated, because I am a friggin jew, so thbbb | 08:50 |
| JimmyDee | and the truth of the matter is "yes israel has nukes and thats why they exist" | 08:50 |
| ompaul | hardly humanity methinks | 08:53 |
| elkbuntu | me agrees | 08:54 |
| Myrtti | meesa tired | 08:56 |
| elkbuntu | ompaul, i can tell he was in troll mood because of "* JimmyDee is feisty feisty feisty" | 08:57 |
| ompaul | well he has to learn that humanity to others is humanity to others | 08:58 |
| elkbuntu | how can we help, hangthedj | 08:59 |
| hangthedj | can someone test me for the DCCExploit? | 08:59 |
| mc44 | ompaul: and he's back ;) | 08:59 |
| ompaul | mc44, noted | 09:00 |
| elkbuntu | there, i figured you didnt want it to be a personal thing :) | 09:00 |
| ompaul | elkbuntu, ya but now let me know | 09:03 |
| ompaul | I will be out of there for a while in the next hour and won't be back for a few hours | 09:03 |
| elkbuntu | right, can you kline @97-86-161-*.static.stls.mo.charter.com :) | 09:04 |
| ompaul | no | 09:05 |
| ompaul | not staff | 09:05 |
| elkbuntu | drat | 09:05 |
| elkbuntu | :( | 09:05 |
| elkbuntu | well consider he's static, he's probably gone through his ip reserves now anyway | 09:07 |
| Myrtti | he's on #u | 09:08 |
| mc44 | clearly it's static for a given value of static | 09:09 |
| Myrtti | he's on #u | 09:39 |
| elkbuntu | mc44, some people get multiple ips assigned ;) | 09:40 |
| elkbuntu | Myrtti, he's not banned from there yet afaik | 09:41 |
| elkbuntu | he's still on 253 so he's likely not going to bother again | 09:41 |
| Myrtti | just noting so ifthe ip's are still neede | 09:41 |
| Myrtti | d | 09:41 |
| hangthedj | hi, i had a DCC bug and i upgraded the firmware, how do i get back to #ubuntu? | 10:08 |
| elkbuntu | you wait for a test | 10:09 |
| hangthedj | ok | 10:10 |
| elkbuntu | you seem fine | 10:11 |
| hangthedj | thanks | 10:11 |
| elkbuntu | unbanned | 10:11 |
| hangthedj | thank you elkbuntu | 10:12 |
| elkbuntu | if ever you're behind a router you dont trust, use the alternative port, ok :) | 10:12 |
| hangthedj | ok | 10:12 |
| Tm_T | Ubotwo: join #kubuntu-fi | 10:32 |
| Tm_T | ;( | 10:32 |
| === white_eagle is now known as whiteeagle-mk | ||
| === whiteeagle-mk is now known as white-eagle | ||
| elkbuntu | pleasepleaseplease let me see more like this: <sirAndrew> hello, can someone help me with a problem? i can`t install automatix and i don`t know why | 11:52 |
| whiteeagle-mk | elkbuntu, why? | 11:52 |
| Myrtti | yay! someone *can't* install automatix? | 11:52 |
| elkbuntu | whiteeagle-mk, because automatix causes a huge proportion of our support queries | 11:53 |
| whiteeagle-mk | lolz | 11:53 |
| === whiteeagle-mk is now known as white_eagle | ||
| elkbuntu | white_eagle, there is no need for you to be in this channel. please move along | 12:01 |
| white_eagle | why? | 12:03 |
| white_eagle | I don't bother | 12:03 |
| jpatrick | white_eagle: /topic | 12:03 |
| white_eagle | oh | 12:03 |
| white_eagle | yes sorry | 12:03 |
| JimmyDee | how do I begin to say I'm sorry? | 13:05 |
| Tm_T | by telling how sorry you are and about what | 13:06 |
| Tm_T | and what have you learned ;) | 13:06 |
| JimmyDee | what can I say, I bent the o4o rules and I can't take it back. I know I did wrong | 13:09 |
| JimmyDee | no excuses | 13:09 |
| JimmyDee | I was a really crappy guest in you guys house | 13:11 |
| elkbuntu | JimmyDee, thanks for the apology. however you do still need to wait through the punishment | 13:13 |
| JimmyDee | great, would someone kindly tell me what that is? | 13:14 |
| elkbuntu | JimmyDee, there is no set time, but considering it involved a ban evasion, it'll likely be some days yet | 13:16 |
| JimmyDee | I ban evaded to attempt to appologize | 13:17 |
| elkbuntu | that's not an excuse | 13:18 |
| JimmyDee | no, its not | 13:18 |
| JimmyDee | its an explaination | 13:19 |
| elkbuntu | JimmyDee, you knew this channel was here, you had no need to break network policy | 13:19 |
| JimmyDee | like I said before, no excuses, only regrets | 13:19 |
| Gary | he seemed nice | 13:24 |
| elkbuntu | yeah, kahrytan apologised at one point too | 13:29 |
| Gary | hehe, kahrytan is gonna have such a shock when he gets to hawaii | 13:30 |
| Gary | his fellow lugmaster is a friend of dorothy :-) | 13:33 |
| elkbuntu | dorothy? | 13:38 |
| elkbuntu | he's already in hawaii afaik | 13:38 |
| Gary | friend of dorothy = homosexual :-) | 13:39 |
| Hobbsee | and? | 13:40 |
| elkbuntu | Hobbsee, i think it's a discreet way of saying gay ;) | 13:42 |
| Gary | and kahrytan is a mad christian homophobe :p | 13:42 |
| elkbuntu | Gary, lawl | 13:43 |
| Hobbsee | ahhhh | 13:43 |
| Hobbsee | yes, if you're a homophobe, then you're going to be a bit put off by someone who's homosexual working with you | 13:43 |
| Gary | yep | 13:43 |
| Gary | and kit cannot wait :-) (kit is the other lugmaster) | 13:43 |
| Hobbsee | however, for any random on the street, does it really matter who is gay, or not, assuming you have no wish for romantic attachment with them? | 13:43 |
| elkbuntu | Gary, flaming homosexual? | 13:43 |
| Hobbsee | which is why my "and" | 13:43 |
| Hobbsee | er, "and?" | 13:44 |
| AndrewB | !seen Madpilot | 13:44 |
| ubotu | Sorry, I don't know anything about seen madpilot - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi | 13:44 |
| AndrewB | grr | 13:44 |
| Hobbsee | AndrewB: /msg seenserv seen | 13:44 |
| elkbuntu | Gary, please tell me he's a flaming homosexual. it will be all the more funny | 13:44 |
| AndrewB | yeah Hobbsee | 13:44 |
| Gary | Hobbsee, true, but it makes a big difference to kahrytan | 13:44 |
| Gary | elkbuntu, more than that :-) | 13:44 |
| elkbuntu | eeeeeeeeeeeeeeexcellent | 13:45 |
| Hobbsee | !seen is <reply> The seen function has not been operational for a long time. Use /msg seenserv seen <nick> instead. | 13:45 |
| Hobbsee | !seen is <reply> 'The seen function has not been operational for a long time. Use /msg seenserv seen <nick> instead.' | 13:45 |
| AndrewB | Hobbsee: was just to check if he had been unklined re: mail list | 13:45 |
| Hobbsee | hrm... | 13:45 |
| Hobbsee | now, why doesn't it like that? | 13:45 |
| Hobbsee | !seen is The seen function has not been operational for a long time. Use /msg seenserv seen <nick> instead. | 13:45 |
| elkbuntu | AndrewB, yeah, he was in soon after. someone must have pulled strings or something | 13:46 |
| Gary | AndrewB, yes | 13:46 |
| Hobbsee | !seen is <reply> The seen function has not been operational for a long time. Use /msg seenserv seen nickname instead. | 13:46 |
| ubotu | I'll remember that, Hobbsee | 13:46 |
| AndrewB | Cool :) | 13:46 |
| Hobbsee | ther ewe go. | 13:46 |
| AndrewB | Gary: I am in the place of dreams | 13:46 |
| AndrewB | ;) | 13:46 |
| Gary | AndrewB, why? | 13:50 |
| AndrewB | Cause I am in work ;) | 13:50 |
| Gary | meh | 13:50 |
| jussi01 | OK, quick question, #ubuntustudio-devel is an invite only channel. could we get ubotu in there? (we already have ubotu in #ubuntustudio) | 13:52 |
| Hobbsee | jussi01: why is it invite only? | 13:53 |
| jussi01 | Hobbsee: Im not certain of the exact reasoning, but it has always been that way since I have been a member of the dev team. | 13:55 |
| Hobbsee | strange. | 13:55 |
| Hobbsee | good way to get people interested, i'm sure. | 13:55 |
| Hobbsee | they been following the MS example, i see. | 13:56 |
| jussi01 | The was some issues when it was formed with a split, it may be because of that. | 13:56 |
| * jussi01 makes note to ask | 13:56 | |
| elkbuntu | it's technically within our jurisdiction anyway | 13:56 |
| Hobbsee | heh, there is that | 13:57 |
| stdin | interesting modes: secret and invite only | 13:59 |
| jussi01 | stdin: yeah, its a little weird now I think about it. | 13:59 |
| jussi01 | its just always been that way. | 14:00 |
| elkbuntu | very obfuscated | 14:00 |
| jussi01 | Well Ill check it out and let you all know exactly whats going on. | 14:01 |
| stdin | oh, joejaxx is here, so we can ask ;) | 14:02 |
| jussi01 | he is? wow :) | 14:02 |
| stdin | maybe he's shy :p | 14:04 |
| jussi01 | stdin: or asleep... | 14:05 |
| jpatrick | maybe's he's freaked at all you lot charging up at him all the sudden :p | 14:05 |
| stdin | [joejaxx] idle 00:00:04, signon: Fri Dec 28 05:47:56 <- he's not been idle long | 14:05 |
| elkbuntu | attack of the clones? | 14:10 |
| ubotu | astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu (replica) | 14:33 |
| * PriceChild grins at madpilot's k-lining and finds logs | 15:33 | |
| LjL | PriceChild: woh, he was k-lined? | 15:34 |
| LjL | i hope he didn't say... | 15:34 |
| LjL | uhm, that. | 15:34 |
| PriceChild | grrrrrrrrrrrrr irclogs.ubuntu doesn't have quit messages | 15:35 |
| LjL | well, i don't have timestamps | 15:35 |
| LjL | but i have *all* quit messages. | 15:36 |
| LjL | including those in unrelated channels. | 15:36 |
| PriceChild | 3:28 utc | 15:36 |
| LjL | ... but i don't have dates in the timestamps *g* | 15:36 |
| PriceChild | he got back in though | 15:36 |
| LjL | i figure | 15:36 |
| LjL | ah, it was pretty intentional. | 15:37 |
| LjL | ah no, it was pretty mean on the part of the aussie. | 15:37 |
| elkbuntu | well i thought the script *was* retired :-/ | 15:40 |
| LjL | elkbuntu: suuure. | 15:40 |
| LjL | yeah, if you search "auto-k-line" on google, we feature prominently | 15:43 |
| LjL | s/yeah/hey/ | 15:43 |
| LjL | sidlexy again | 15:43 |
| elkbuntu | heh, anyway, bed, night | 15:45 |
| Tm_T | night elkbuntu | 15:47 |
| nalioth | why do you think he was klined? | 16:08 |
| nalioth | he said the magic words here | 16:08 |
| Tm_T | what magic words? | 16:09 |
| crdlb | could you add a note to the !devilspie factoid that compiz users can access builtin window matching functionality in !ccsm ? | 16:09 |
| jpatrick | Tm_T: see logs | 16:10 |
| Tm_T | jpatrick: day? | 16:13 |
| jpatrick | Tm_T: 2007/12/29 | 16:14 |
| LjL | he said | 16:14 |
| Tm_T | thanks | 16:14 |
| LjL | DCC SΕND 1234556778899876543222 | 16:14 |
| Pici | except with a normal E | 16:15 |
| LjL | i guess. | 16:15 |
| Pici | i guess too | 16:15 |
| nalioth | what kind of "E" was that? | 16:16 |
| LjL | nalioth: it was no E | 16:17 |
| Gary | a magic one | 16:17 |
| Tm_T | LjL: not as cool as DCC 53ND 1398234907612349086234 | 16:17 |
| Tm_T | ;) | 16:17 |
| jussi01 | !1337 | Tm_T | 16:18 |
| ubotu | Tm_T: 1337 i5 nigh-inc0mpr3h3n5ib13 70 u5 n00bs, 4nd n0b0dy c4r35 if UR 4 1337 h4x0r. Giv3 i7 4 r357. | 16:18 |
| jussi01 | :P | 16:18 |
| stdin | is it bad that I could read that easily? | 16:18 |
| jpatrick | nop | 16:18 |
| Tm_T | I can't read that at all | 16:19 |
| Pici | leet is nigh-incomprehensible to us noobs, and nobody cares if your a leet haxor give it a rest. | 16:20 |
| ardchoille | I like that one. | 16:21 |
| Tm_T | Pici: thanks, now I know | 16:21 |
| nalioth | anyone seen that romney spammer within the last couple hours? | 16:21 |
| tomaw | you're the only person to have set off my hilight today | 16:21 |
| ardchoille | tomaw: You hilight on "leet haxor" ? | 16:22 |
| ardchoille | :P | 16:22 |
| tomaw | :P | 16:23 |
| Tm_T | ardchoille: no, prolly 1337 h4x0r | 16:23 |
| ardchoille | hahaha | 16:24 |
| Tm_T | whatever that is | 16:24 |
| Tm_T | some of you youngs might exlain to me some day when I'm awaken | 16:24 |
| ardchoille | Yes, we old folks need to keep up with the times. | 16:25 |
| Tm_T | ardchoille: son, don't even try | 16:27 |
| ardchoille | hehe | 16:28 |
| * ardchoille will be 44 in 5 days | 16:29 | |
| nalioth | 0_0 | 16:30 |
| Tm_T | ardchoille: aahh, enjoy your youth :)) | 16:30 |
| nalioth | ardchoille: do you live in a cryogenic chamber? | 16:30 |
| * nalioth runs | 16:30 | |
| Tm_T | nalioth: I do, at times | 16:31 |
| ardchoille | nalioth: No | 16:31 |
| ardchoille | hehe | 16:31 |
| ardchoille | nalioth: I'm so old it took me a few mins to get that. | 16:32 |
| Tm_T | ardchoille: it's funny when in some web service, incl forums, you try to find your birth year from dropdown list and it isn't there | 16:32 |
| ardchoille | Oh my | 16:32 |
| ardchoille | Tm_T: And I thought I was old | 16:32 |
| LjL | Pici, come to -bots and get prepared for some pretty heaving coding :P | 16:32 |
| jpatrick | Tm_T: what do you think of osx5 on #kubuntu? | 16:37 |
| LjL | what about him? | 16:38 |
| Mez | I return | 16:38 |
| jpatrick | join, leave, join, leave | 16:39 |
| Tm_T | jpatrick: often? | 16:39 |
| jpatrick | Tm_T: i think it's the first time | 16:39 |
| Tm_T | jpatrick: then its ok | 16:39 |
| Tm_T | jpatrick: if he does it more than 10 times in short time, try poke | 16:39 |
| jpatrick | ok | 16:40 |
| Tm_T | if still no luck, ask here :) | 16:41 |
| joejaxx | does ubotu log the channels it is in ? | 16:53 |
| joejaxx | log as in chat logs | 16:54 |
| jpatrick | joejaxx: irclogs.ubuntu.com | 16:54 |
| joejaxx | so is that a yes? or a no :P | 16:56 |
| joejaxx | that site does not say if the ubotu bot itself does that :P | 16:56 |
| LjL | joejaxx: no | 16:57 |
| ardchoille | I thought it was ubuntulog | 16:57 |
| joejaxx | see the confusion? | 16:57 |
| joejaxx | :P | 16:57 |
| joejaxx | that is why i asked :D | 16:57 |
| joejaxx | LjL: do you know what generates those logs? :) | 16:59 |
| LjL | ubuntulog | 16:59 |
| joejaxx | ok | 16:59 |
| joejaxx | thanks | 16:59 |
| LjL | locobots for loco channels | 16:59 |
| joejaxx | ok | 17:01 |
| joejaxx | :) | 17:01 |
| ardchoille | How are some *buntu channels getting logged to http://ircarchive.info/ ? Is that from the irseek.com folks? | 17:13 |
| PriceChild | ardchoille, check the dates | 17:16 |
| ardchoille | PriceChild: Ah, seems to have stopped in May | 17:17 |
| HS^ | Hello I have a question about ubuntu and how to install from source so it shows up in Apt / package manager. But im banned from #ubuntu, i cant remember what for. Probably I talked off topic. How long is this ban? | 17:44 |
| LjL | HS^, i'd say come back in january | 17:45 |
| HS^ | oh. ok | 17:45 |
| HS^ | my question is this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=652974 , but no one responds to it yet. | 17:46 |
| jpatrick | anyone know why he was banned?^^ | 18:12 |
| LjL | yeah | 18:13 |
| LjL | he was banned from -offtopic because of being a troll | 18:13 |
| LjL | and he was banned from #ubuntu because of trolling about his ban in -offtopic, and swearing | 18:13 |
| jpatrick | hmm, just checking cos he's on #kubuntu-devel but it looks okay | 18:13 |
| nalioth | jpatrick: be watchful | 18:14 |
| jpatrick | nalioth: even then there's not much I can do | 18:14 |
| jpatrick | but I will | 18:14 |
| nalioth | ah :| | 18:14 |
| jpatrick | what's the policy for people who /away verbosily? | 18:26 |
| LjL | !away | 18:26 |
| ubotu | You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu - it causes unrequired scrolling which is unfair on new users. The same goes for using noisy away messages : use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently - See also !Guidelines | 18:26 |
| LjL | and i usually kick if "verbosely" means a /me or other privmsg | 18:27 |
| LjL | if it just means a nick change, i usually don't kick | 18:27 |
| jpatrick | Cos lots of people do it on the spanish channels, and I've started to /remove it's so common | 18:28 |
| LjL | jpatrick: there is a lengthy explanation about it in the guidelines | 18:28 |
| Myrtti | http://bisqwit.iki.fi/jutut/away.html | 18:33 |
| Myrtti | that about says it all | 18:36 |
| jpatrick | Myrtti: too bad the guy came back to flame me | 18:36 |
| Myrtti | "sucks to be him" | 18:36 |
| Myrtti | jpatrick: there's plenty of reasons why public aways suck | 18:37 |
| jpatrick | I'm trying to explain that | 18:37 |
| Myrtti | if they're too dense to get them, they need to be educated | 18:37 |
| Myrtti | by force, if necessary :-P | 18:38 |
| ardchoille | In https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines there is a link to http://bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl/bans.cgi but that url returns: Unknown host bugbot.ubuntulinux.nl | 18:39 |
| * jpatrick goes to translate guideslines to spanish | 18:40 | |
| LjL | of course, doing ctrl+a in konqueror 4's URL box selects the *document* instead of the url... *sigh* | 18:40 |
| LjL | ardchoille: outdated URL | 18:41 |
| ardchoille | LjL: Mind if I remove that url? | 18:42 |
| LjL | ardchoille: i fixed it already | 18:42 |
| ardchoille | LjL: You're quick :) | 18:42 |
| ompaul | !nickspam | 19:04 |
| ubotu | You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu - it causes unrequired scrolling which is unfair on new users. The same goes for using noisy away messages : use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently - See also !Guidelines | 19:04 |
| ompaul | ohh someone killed my version of reality | 19:04 |
| * ompaul wonders who and says nothing | 19:04 | |
| jpatrick | !guidelines | 19:25 |
| ubotu | The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | 19:25 |
| jpatrick | ^^the link in section 11 "When helping: be helpful" has a bad link it should be http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi | 19:26 |
| ompaul | ifireball, what do you wish to talk about? | 19:40 |
| ifireball | ompaul: well, I'm being polite and reading the wiki 1st, but lets cut to the chase | 19:41 |
| ifireball | I want to add a factoid to ubotu | 19:41 |
| ompaul | state it to the bot or state it here | 19:41 |
| ompaul | in the former case it gets echoed here | 19:42 |
| ompaul | in the latter ditto :) | 19:42 |
| ifireball | I see, well, let me sort it out 1st | 19:42 |
| ompaul | just say it we have skills at making them work if they are suitable | 19:43 |
| ompaul | often they get a few iterations | 19:43 |
| ubotu | In ubotu, a514 said: what is ubuntu | 19:44 |
| ifireball | sudoedit: Use sudoedit in order to edit root-accessible rather then "sudo nano <file>" use "sudoedit <file>" or "VISUAL=gedit sudoedit <file>" to run a graphical editor; You may want to set VISUAL in your .profile | 19:45 |
| ompaul | sudovi | 19:46 |
| ompaul | hmm | 19:46 |
| ifireball | also should say something bad about running "gksudo gedit" because it roots the whole editor | 19:46 |
| ifireball | I'm too tired, already wrote one howto today... | 19:47 |
| ikonia | what is the factoid for the cd-repo-mirror technique ? | 19:48 |
| ikonia | searching the factoid db now, but I can't see anything | 19:49 |
| nalioth | ifireball: why is "gksudo gedit" bad? | 19:51 |
| ifireball | nalioth: because you're running the HUGE HUGE Gedit as soot, as well as the whole GTK and a bunch of other libraries | 19:52 |
| ifireball | nalioth: also if you change settings they get saved to root's home rather then your own | 19:52 |
| nalioth | ifireball: isn't that the point? | 19:53 |
| nalioth | ifireball: are you perhaps confusing "sudo gedit" as the "bad option" ? | 19:53 |
| ifireball | nalioth: no, the point is editing the file, not running the editor | 19:53 |
| ompaul | which screws the user | 19:53 |
| nalioth | i'm completely lost | 19:53 |
| ompaul | nalioth, na I think we are all lost here | 19:53 |
| nalioth | i would 'gksudo gedit' to edit stuff that _belongs_ to root/system | 19:53 |
| ompaul | well I would sudo nano it but that is just me | 19:54 |
| nalioth | why would anyone "gksudo gedit" to edit their own data ? | 19:54 |
| ikonia | nalioth: I beleive he's saying that the editor and the whole system assoticated to the editor will be launched as root | 19:54 |
| nalioth | ompaul: don't distract us, this is about "gedit" and "gksudo" | 19:54 |
| ikonia | nalioth: therefore all the settings will be in ~/. for root | 19:54 |
| nalioth | ikonia: and? | 19:54 |
| Myrtti | like .nano_history | 19:54 |
| ompaul | nalioth, ikonia is concurring with you as far as I can see | 19:55 |
| ikonia | nalioth: yes, I'm saying that is what the complaint is, although I don't see it as a problem, rather expected behaviour | 19:55 |
| Myrtti | everytime I nowadays launch it, it warns me about .nano_history permissions | 19:55 |
| ifireball | the right way to edit a system file is the way sudoedit and sudo -e do it, is to copy the file out somewhere, chmod it, edit, chmod and copy back, that way its lock-safe and you do the minimal steps as root | 19:55 |
| nalioth | ifireball: Ubuntu is meant to be 'user friendly' | 19:56 |
| ikonia | ifireball: as I understand it your complaining as a whole toolset is being laucnhed as the root user. | 19:56 |
| ifireball | nalioth: indeed it is, that is why you have the soduedit command to do the heavy lifting | 19:56 |
| nalioth | ifireball: well, i'm probably ign'rnt, but i've never heard of "sudoedit" | 19:57 |
| ifireball | ikonia: you may not care for that, but there is the issue of side effects like the dotfiles | 19:57 |
| nalioth | i've also never had a single problem "gksudo gedit" or "kdesu kate" and editing files | 19:57 |
| ompaul | ifireball, now that is best practice and, in certain cases the mv command should be removed from systems but things are risk free enough to use it today on a home machine | 19:58 |
| ifireball | nalioth: which is why I want the factoid ;) I realised most other ppl on the channel didn't either | 19:58 |
| ikonia | ifireball: I didn't say I didn't care. | 19:58 |
| ifireball | yes, but I know this is a hard sell, since typically nothing bad happens | 19:59 |
| ompaul | ifireball, I concur with you, but I wonder if we are not being too protective, I'll put it in some language that it is a better practice | 19:59 |
| ikonia | it's not a hard sell, I was just trying to clarify what the actual issue was | 20:00 |
| ifireball | somehow I feel that one of the channel's goals should be promoting better practices | 20:00 |
| * MenZa pokes elkbuntu. | 20:00 | |
| ompaul | ifireball, fair point /me grabs shins in pain | 20:00 |
| ifireball | ikonia: somehow, having run gksud gedit, then did file open and noticing all the favorites are not there, etc, seems really not elegant to me | 20:01 |
| ifireball | ikonia: also, if the user changed the theme the root gedit will look VERY different, ugly... | 20:01 |
| ikonia | ifireball: I appriciate the differences, I personally don't have a problem due to my lack of graphical tools. | 20:02 |
| ifireball | well, I hear you, but I'd rather the new ppl have as smooth experience as possible... | 20:03 |
| ikonia | no, I don't have an issue with what you said, I was just trying to clear up the actual statment | 20:03 |
| ompaul | ifireball, I have to cook some words cos there is no way I would use the ones you have there | 20:03 |
| ikonia | badley it seems. | 20:03 |
| * nalioth has never heard of "sudoedit" | 20:04 | |
| ompaul | man -k sudo will tell you about it and a few others | 20:04 |
| ifireball | ompaul: no problem, I just brain-dumped, my writing skills went downhill it seems... | 20:04 |
| ifireball | actually its right in man sudo... | 20:05 |
| LjL | ifireball, i was on dinner so i've missed some of this. i must admit i didn't know about sudoedit... however there's one possible little complication i can think of | 20:06 |
| LjL | !gksudo | 20:06 |
| ubotu | If you need to run graphical applications as root, use « gksudo », as it will set up the environment more appropriately. Never just use "sudo"! (See http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/graphicalsudo to know why) | 20:06 |
| ifireball | LjL: shoot | 20:07 |
| LjL | so, if the "never use sudo" reasons apply to sudoedit as well, and i think they do, wouldn't that mean that users couldn't use gedit/kate/other graphical editors, but would be forced to use nano or whatever? | 20:07 |
| LjL | i think they're pretty glad to be able to use the graphical ones, mostly | 20:07 |
| ifireball | LjL: no | 20:07 |
| ifireball | because of the way sudoedit works, it runs the editor with the user's permissions, so you can use a graphical one | 20:08 |
| ifireball | try it | 20:08 |
| ifireball | VISUAL=gedit sudoedit /etc/group | 20:08 |
| nalioth | but i think you are missing another point | 20:09 |
| ifireball | whats that? | 20:09 |
| nalioth | i only use "gksudo gedit" to edit system files, why do i need it opened with my permissions? | 20:09 |
| ifireball | nalioth: so that if you keep the editor open, or use file->open or anything else, you can't hose your system by mistake | 20:10 |
| nalioth | ifireball: i guess i don't get it. | 20:10 |
| nalioth | i don't leave any "root enabled" graphical apps open | 20:10 |
| ifireball | nalioth: please read what sudo -e does | 20:10 |
| nalioth | i open, edit the file, and close | 20:10 |
| LjL | nalioth, "you" are not everyone | 20:11 |
| LjL | "you" probably would use root only when necessary even if you had no sudo | 20:11 |
| nalioth | which is why i see a different theme for "root" apps as a reminder to users | 20:11 |
| LjL | anyway wasn't there an "Edit text file as root" menu entry or something like that in Ubuntu? | 20:11 |
| ompaul | popey, have you thoughts on this? | 20:13 |
| ifireball | LjL: maybe, that isn't good too, i.e. there is also "run nautilus as root" somewhere, those are all less then optimal but necessary things | 20:13 |
| ompaul | ifireball, I really hope there is not run nautilus as root | 20:14 |
| ifireball | (don't forget that synaptic runs as root too) | 20:14 |
| LjL | i recall there is... though i'm on Kubuntu so don't really know | 20:14 |
| LjL | ifireball: well synaptic definitely has to | 20:14 |
| Daviey | ./topic | 20:14 |
| ompaul | Daviey, thoughts? | 20:14 |
| ifireball | LjL: not really, it could as for password just when clicking apply, see how aptitude handles it | 20:15 |
| Daviey | ompaul: I have used nautilus as root before.. but it's not something i think should be bundled | 20:15 |
| LjL | ifireball: uhm, how does aptitude handle it? | 20:15 |
| Daviey | ompaul: heck, I bet most have run X as root at some point | 20:16 |
| ifireball | LjL: you can run it as a normal user, and it lets you do the selection, and asks for root password only when you type "g" to apply the changes | 20:16 |
| Daviey | meh, who uses the ncurses of aptitude anyway... | 20:17 |
| ompaul | Daviey, shh that was before theo caught me and gave me a good trashing :) | 20:17 |
| LjL | ifireball: i don't normally run aptitude in interactive mode... how does it achieve that? does it make a system call to escalate privileges? | 20:17 |
| ifireball | LjL: well, if you really go into detail, they didn't quite get it right yet, it runs another instance of itself with sudo or su | 20:19 |
| Daviey | remember aptitude is just a wrapper... no system calls needed | 20:19 |
| LjL | ifireball: i thought they would. ugly. honestly i think elegance (i.e. just running as root) is better in that case | 20:19 |
| LjL | Daviey: it's what? | 20:19 |
| ifireball | LjL: well, it could very easily just "sudo apt" in the background, I suppose this is a developer compromise somewhere | 20:20 |
| popey | ompaul: hmm? | 20:21 |
| ifireball | I remember seeing ppl discussing pushing such functionality into synaptic in the +1 wiki somewhere | 20:21 |
| LjL | ifireball: anyway back to the sudoedit issue... given there is "Run X as root" menu entries *by default* in Ubuntu (unless we're all wrong), "gksudo gedit" really cannot be that bad. sudoedit may have its merits, but what i'm afraid is users would be kind of confused by a command line such as "EDITOR=gedit sudoedit blah"... most novices would probably be better off understanding how (gk|kde)sudo are to be used in a general way | 20:21 |
| LjL | the fact that there need to be gksudo and kdesu alone is bad enough imo | 20:21 |
| LjL | ifireball, that would only work if there *is* sudo though | 20:22 |
| Daviey | LjL: i mean, it's just a wrapper for dpkg | 20:22 |
| LjL | Daviey: not really | 20:22 |
| Daviey | err, yes it is | 20:22 |
| Daviey | grep the source | 20:22 |
| ompaul | popey, this debate | 20:22 |
| LjL | Daviey: it needs to touch the APT database, and that definitely cannot be done as non-route | 20:22 |
| popey | ompaul: reading | 20:22 |
| LjL | root | 20:22 |
| ompaul | thanks | 20:22 |
| LjL | !apt | 20:22 |
| ubotu | APT is the Advanced Package Tool, which together with dpkg forms the basic Ubuntu package management toolkit. Short apt-get manual: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGetHowto - Also see !Synaptic (Gnome) or !Adept (KDE) | 20:22 |
| Daviey | LjL: Are you being serious? | 20:23 |
| LjL | Daviey: saying that an APT frontend is a "wrapper to dpkg" seems to me like forgetting about the entire APT framework | 20:23 |
| LjL | Daviey: pretty much | 20:23 |
| Daviey | LjL: aptitude makes direct references to dpkg! | 20:23 |
| LjL | Daviey: uhm, yeah, and? | 20:23 |
| LjL | Daviey: it also modified /var/cache/apt/archives, doesn't it? or have i been dreaming all along? | 20:24 |
| LjL | (just an example, it modifies several other APT data structures) | 20:24 |
| Daviey | LjL: and your point? | 20:24 |
| LjL | Daviey: my point is that it needs root to do such things, duh | 20:25 |
| ompaul | a sideline gents the point is how to enhance or should this be enhanced | 20:25 |
| ompaul | !sudoedit | 20:25 |
| ubotu | sudoedit is available to edit system files with the privileges of root, it is a console based application | 20:25 |
| Daviey | LjL: I never said otherwise, duh | 20:25 |
| LjL | ompaul: re: last thing i said to ifireball | 20:25 |
| LjL | Daviey: [21:20:45] <ifireball> LjL: well, it could very easily just "sudo apt" in the background, I suppose this is a developer compromise somewhere [21:22:19] <Daviey> LjL: i mean, it's just a wrapper for dpkg | 20:26 |
| LjL | what the heck is "sudo apt" by the way, sudo apt what | 20:26 |
| LjL | APT was a library last i checked | 20:26 |
| ifireball | ompaul: I do believe we need to mention VISUAL or EDITOR somehow | 20:26 |
| Daviey | LjL: Should i also post the whole log where there is _no_ mention of me saying that aptitude shouldn't require root? | 20:26 |
| LjL | Daviey: little summary - ifireball was saying that aptitude only does root things when it really needs to. i asked how (since a user-mode program cannot easily become a root-mode program), and i suggested it may use system calls. you said system calls are not needed because it's just a wrapper to dpkg. | 20:27 |
| LjL | and that plainly makes no sense i'm afraid | 20:27 |
| ompaul | ifireball, I am very uncomfortable with that at the moment ergo I asked pop^ey for his take on what we are saying the man with the best eyebrows in the whole debian / ubuntu scheme of things :) | 20:27 |
| LjL | because even if it somehow could start dpkg as root without using "su" or "sudo" kludges | 20:27 |
| LjL | it would still need root for the rest of the stuff | 20:28 |
| LjL | which can *not* be achieved by just sudoing something | 20:28 |
| * ompaul swerves back ontopic | 20:28 | |
| Daviey | Here is one example of how aptitude gains root, sucmd="/bin/su -c \"/usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure '%s'\""; | 20:28 |
| ompaul | ifireball, you know what would be useful here, and today is not the day for it cos it needs a wiki page | 20:29 |
| ifireball | ompaul: I'm not following you | 20:30 |
| LjL | Daviey: which is ugly as i said. still how does it do stuff in /var/cache/apt/archives? uses shell commands and "su"s each of them? that's probably what it does at the end of the day, but then again that's entirely ugly. and still aptitude is not "just a wrapper to dpkg" in any sense of the expression "just a wrapper" | 20:30 |
| LjL | i *hope* aptitude uses libapt in any case | 20:30 |
| LjL | i really do | 20:30 |
| ompaul | ifireball, to tag onto the back end of that factoid a url that says how VISUAL and so forth can be set - if we are going change how we help people we should at least have full docs on the ubuntu wiki to explain the full detail of what they can modify | 20:30 |
| Daviey | okay, i agree it's less of a wrapper than wajig - but it does call dpkg directly, not using something like libdpkg, so therefore wraps commands | 20:31 |
| ompaul | ifireball, no point in asking a user to do or consider something if they never ever saw this stuff or a concept like it before | 20:31 |
| ifireball | ompaul: so why is today not good for that? | 20:31 |
| ompaul | you are tired and I am also :) | 20:32 |
| ifireball | ompaul: :) | 20:32 |
| ompaul | it is 8:30pm and I am shattered | 20:32 |
| ompaul | but I'll do irc for a couple of hours yet | 20:32 |
| ifireball | ompaul: for now I was just thinking of having the "magic command" on the factoid so you can "|" it at ppl helping ppl... | 20:33 |
| ompaul | ifireball, explaining environments in simple english is not my forte at this time | 20:33 |
| ifireball | ompaul: I hear ya | 20:33 |
| LjL | i dunno, i'd lean on recommending gksudo gedit on the simple merit of being a plain example of using and not using sudo and derivatives | 20:33 |
| LjL | sudoedit might be safer in theory, but what most novice ubuntu users need to learn is... well, what sudo is for a start | 20:33 |
| ompaul | LjL, +1 however we need to have it for say our server users etc | 20:34 |
| LjL | ifireball: but the magic command is a bit too magic to my eyes | 20:34 |
| ifireball | LjL: I dislike that on the simple grounds that gksudo is a #%# hack around the whole X security system | 20:34 |
| LjL | ifireball: *shrug*, it's what we have though | 20:34 |
| ompaul | ifireball, and sgi and compiz are a hack on your freedom but we live with it :) | 20:34 |
| ompaul | and lets not go there I am about to break X in new and interesting ways (gulp) | 20:35 |
| LjL | i don't know anyway, i'm generally all for recommending best practices | 20:35 |
| LjL | i just feel this one is a little counter-productive on users' understanding of things | 20:36 |
| ifireball | well, we can begin by having a factoid to teach ppl what sudoedit can do | 20:36 |
| LjL | making them more confused than they were before, resuting in their using sudo in even worse situations | 20:36 |
| ompaul | popey, just for fun glx will not be in the next gnewsense unless we can get sgi to do a new licence for everyone | 20:36 |
| ifireball | even if not the most novice users, the more advanced ones | 20:36 |
| * ompaul gulps | 20:36 | |
| popey | oh dear | 20:37 |
| ompaul | ifireball, but for a novice to become advanced they must have the same advantage as the advanced i.e. access to good information on what they are doing | 20:37 |
| ompaul | popey, aye | 20:37 |
| ompaul | popey, but we really don't have anywhere to turn, we were called on it by Theo De Raadt so we gotta do it | 20:38 |
| LjL | !no sudoedit is <reply> To edit files with !superuser access using the user's standard editor (as set in the EDITOR !shell variable) and its normal configuration, the command « sudoedit <filename> » is available. It creates a local copy of the file, and runs the editor with the user's permissions. | 20:38 |
| ubotu | I'll remember that LjL | 20:38 |
| ifireball | LjL: great wording | 20:39 |
| ompaul | ifireball, as I said several iterations | 20:39 |
| ifireball | well, its not clear that GUI editors also count here, but maybe I should just try to patch VISUAL=gedit into the default .provile in +1... | 20:42 |
| LjL | ifireball: VISUAL is intended to be the variable containing the default GUI editor? | 20:44 |
| ifireball | LjL: I think so | 20:44 |
| LjL | ifireball: though keep in mind just putting VISUAL=gedit like that wouldn't be very fair to kubuntu and xubuntu users | 20:44 |
| ompaul | ifireball, which is why I wanted a URL to point to | 20:45 |
| ifireball | yes yes yes, to tired for details of course it should be something managed by /etc/alternatives with maybe /etc/editor.d and fallbacks and everything | 20:45 |
| ifireball | at this point I can script that faster then explain in english.... | 20:46 |
| LjL | ifireball: there is already an "editor" alternative, but it only has console editors | 20:46 |
| ifireball | LjL: well, adding x-editor is simple enough | 20:47 |
| LjL | wondering if there's already something like that | 20:47 |
| ifireball | not on my box | 20:47 |
| ifireball | LjL: another option: have gnome and kde session startup set it up | 20:49 |
| ifireball | ... and xfce, and enlightenment, and... | 20:50 |
| LjL | ifireball: well they could all do the same | 20:51 |
| ifireball | well, we're OT, and my thoughts are a mess, I suppose I'll bug everyone more tomorrow... | 20:53 |
| LjL | ifireball: well yes we're OT as far as implementation details go. it's perfectly IT as far as what should be recommended on #ubuntu goes though | 20:53 |
| ifireball | LjL: I know, but at this point I'm much more likely to bable BS then say something intelligent | 20:54 |
| ifireball | LjL: ompaul is right that we should maybe wiki it properly first | 20:55 |
| LjL | yep, that can't be a bad thing | 20:55 |
| ompaul | LjL, pm | 20:55 |
| LjL | go | 20:55 |
| ubotu | crushin_ called the ops in #ubuntu () | 21:54 |
| === crd1b is now known as crdlb | ||
| ompaul | Pumperni1kle, can we help you? | 23:08 |
| ompaul | have fun | 23:50 |
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